Classic AquaSport
General Aquasport Forums => Aquasport Discussion => Topic started by: gran398 on September 09, 2012, 07:44:17 PM
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Exciting day!! :lol:
Pulled out early this morning to meet Vince to pick up the flatback. We met in Florence, SC on I-95. Went on Google Earth last week and found a state ramp on a creek 500 yards from the interstate. So we were in business.
Vince came with his dad Al. The first pics show them pulling off the interstate, then a pic of them showing off a bragger from back home :mrgreen: Vince, it was a sincere pleasure meeting you guys, thanks for the long pull.
The rest of the pics tell a neat story.
After crawling around on her this afternoon....it is my opinion (FWIW) that this boat was made as a custom fireboat.
It has twin factory consoles. More pics on those later. The stock 22-2 was never rigged as a dual console, center console only. The Bill of Sale states "For marine commercial use only". It was sold as a "22 foot workboat." No one even knew the brand.
In the floor, between the consoles, is a deteriorated aluminum fitting. It has a tube emanating from the bottom, going belowdecks.
The consoles....when you look closely...they are OLD. But yacht quality fit and finish. Original teak trim. The boat has exactly the same fore deck as the '66 model in the Rudder article we've been referencing.
She was set up to run for commercial use with twin above-deck gunnel tanks. The fills and vents are there. You can see on the floor what is left of the mounting pads.
The floor is not cored. Solid glass, again like the very early model referenced in the article. More on all of this later..here are the first set of pics :thumright:
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(http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii560/Carolyn198/b14a070a.jpg)
(http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii560/Carolyn198/6801bcbf.jpg)
(http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii560/Carolyn198/50dc99d4.jpg)
the ramp
(http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii560/Carolyn198/9d5f4f62.jpg)
(http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii560/Carolyn198/edaee6d4.jpg)
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(http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii560/Carolyn198/47f29a9b.jpg)
(http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii560/Carolyn198/a4376f7f.jpg)
(http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii560/Carolyn198/25e484e1.jpg)
Original stern rigging tube w/teak. The aft boxes were added later
(http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii560/Carolyn198/419beabb.jpg)
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(http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii560/Carolyn198/3a1c0ab8.jpg)
(http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii560/Carolyn198/e3479b74.jpg)
(http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii560/Carolyn198/d5147907.jpg)
(http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii560/Carolyn198/fb616a8c.jpg)
(http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii560/Carolyn198/98012835.jpg)
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The next pics show the consoles. The port one opens from the top, not sure why. Check out the fit and finish from the factory...even the screws line up, going the extra mile...old school Florida work. They are glassed in under the gunnels, teak trimmed to finish.
One of the pics shows the hole in the floor behind the starboard console. You can see the rigging tube leading into the starboard helm console. Reckon the helm seat tore out and left a hole. The foam you see is in the stringer. This boat has foam-filled fiberglass stringers.
There is also a pic in here that stumps me...bear in mind its a commercial fireboat.
Each side of the boat has two screw-in garboard drain plugs 8 to 10 inches below the rubrail....exactly placed. I mean EXACT to the sixteenth on each side...any ideas??
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(http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii560/Carolyn198/258514a1.jpg)
teak trim ring, mahogany framing, starboard helm console
(http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii560/Carolyn198/230dfc05.jpg)
the hasp was added later
(http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii560/Carolyn198/34b29b6a.jpg)
(http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii560/Carolyn198/dad3b198.jpg)
(http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii560/Carolyn198/6c1dfa11.jpg)
(http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii560/Carolyn198/aa1eecce.jpg)
(http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii560/Carolyn198/31b61649.jpg)
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(http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii560/Carolyn198/4555e05e.jpg)
Top of the port console...it opens...why does it open? Wish we could interview Coburn.
(http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii560/Carolyn198/44102933.jpg)
(http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii560/Carolyn198/f8165d2b.jpg)
Under-gunnel teal trim where consoles glass to hull
(http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii560/Carolyn198/bcc44f9e.jpg)
Saddle tank vent, and pic of forward garboard drain plug beneath rubrail
(http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii560/Carolyn198/96a8cc18.jpg)
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Was an exciting day indeed!! Great to finally meet you & thanks for lunch by the way :salut: Ive been watching this evening for your post. Nice pics. You need to mount that prize catch we brought you. Good to see your figuring some of the oddities of this flatback out. I knew it was special the first time I saw it. Glad I didnt strip it to make a CC now. Oh....both passenger side trailer tires ended up with 1/4 of the outer belt missing by the time we got back. Neither one blew after being speed tested at up to 85mph!
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Aft (midships) garboard plug below rubrail. Four threaded garboard plugs, two per side :scratch:
(http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii560/Carolyn198/4c33245f.jpg)
Fuel fill and vent for removed saddle tank
(http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii560/Carolyn198/a79a180e.jpg)
Deck fill for saddle tank
(http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii560/Carolyn198/c29e11db.jpg)
This is the circular hole in the deck with recessed fitting feeding the high pressure fire pump:
(http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii560/Carolyn198/0d2d8666.jpg)
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Was an exciting day indeed!! Great to finally meet you & thanks for lunch by the way :salut: Ive been watching this evening for your post. Nice pics. You need to mount that prize catch we brought you. Good to see your figuring some of the oddities of this flatback out. I knew it was special the first time I saw it. Glad I didnt strip it to make a CC now. Oh....both passenger side trailer tires ended up with 1/4 of the outer belt missing by the time we got back. Neither one blew after being speed tested at up to 85mph!
You guys are the best! We had great fun in a brief time :lol:
I really liked your dad too. What a hoot today...and warmest regards to him and his harem :lol:
When he whipped out the two "babe" cell phones....that tore me up :lol:
I'm tickled pink with this boat. There is little doubt it was custom made for that marina in the sixties as a fireboat. Maybe before the term "Aquasport" even existed. It has been in freshwater all of its life. Zero corrosion, and the running surface is as clean as when she left Hialeah.
The custom factory consoles...today, those custom boxes would price out at 2K plus each.
Whoever restore this boat...hope she remains original. She's a terrific slice of Americana. They may have made another or two fireboats...but am willing to bet my best dog this is the only survivor.
Thanks Vince! :thumright:
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Starboard side rigging tube, stringer to left, 5/16ths solid glass floor, no plywood core
(http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii560/Carolyn198/17dbeed6.jpg)
Rigging tube leading to side helm console
(http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii560/Carolyn198/f7cf41bb.jpg)
Hi/lo custom factory consoles
(http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii560/Carolyn198/80003baa.jpg)
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Cool, unique boat! :thumleft: I wonder if anyone would want to keep it as original... :scratch: It's probably most valuable as a flatback rebuild fishing boat.
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Cool, unique boat! :thumleft: I wonder if anyone would want to keep it as original... :scratch: It's probably most valuable as a flatback rebuild fishing boat.
Certainly not the commercial aspect; saddle tanks, pump feed, four garboards, etc. But the side consoles...very cool, good looking, old school Palm Beach style, and functional.
Somewhere on here is a photo of an original flatback from the day with twin consoles. Looked for it this afternoon 'till I was blue in the face :?
And it wasn't a 240 Seahunter. It was a flatback. May have been a diver :scratch:
Hope CB checks this thread ...hope I'm not crazy... :wink:
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Something to chew on:
http://www.hammerheadlivewell.com/resto ... asport.htm (http://www.hammerheadlivewell.com/restored-aquasport.htm)
and
http://www.hammerheadlivewell.com/flatb ... g-boat.htm (http://www.hammerheadlivewell.com/flatback-fishing-boat.htm)
Entirely different stringer system. The '68 is five plywood stringers, the '69 features trapezoid foam-filled fiberglass stringers.
From '69, our archives:
http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery ... 69&cat=569 (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=2819&title=as-all-models5-c1969&cat=569)
Since production records no longer exist...we'll figure it out on our own.
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Maybe the garboard plugs gave them a way to connect/use a bimini that folded down inside boat out of the way? :scratch:
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Maybe the garboard plugs gave them a way to connect/use a bimini that folded down inside boat out of the way? :scratch:
Very possible Rick.
Just called Georgia DNR. It is registered there as a 20 foot 1970 Mako :lol:
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Scott, what a find
In the pictures of the 69 from the link it was 4 stringers wide, while my 69 as you can see from the pictures was a 5 wide stringer system. These boats most have continually adapted while still being built.
Good stuff
Capt Matt
<a href="http://s836.photobucket.com/albums/zz281/captmattmitchell/?action=view&current=S5000005.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz281/captmattmitchell/S5000005.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket">[/url](http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz281/captmattmitchell/S5000005.jpg)
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Hope CB checks this thread ...hope I'm not crazy... :wink:
It will take more than a photo to disprove that theory :roll: but.....
I'm still lookin' :salut:
Maybe you saw it on the Classic Mako Forum, Georgia Chapter???? :wink:
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I told Scott she would make a killer tour boat. Put a 135 tiller steer Opti and hire Vince to drive it. He's a big enough boy to drive a 135 tiller all day without wear'n out. I'll do the talking and serve cocktails on the port side lounge tied into the console and covert it into a margrita work station.
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Good thinking! Can you concoct a strawberry daiquiri too :thumright:
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Hope CB checks this thread ...hope I'm not crazy... :wink:
It will take more than a photo to disprove that theory :roll: but.....
I'm still lookin' :salut:
Maybe you saw it on the Classic Mako Forum, Georgia Chapter???? :wink:
:lol: :lol:
Could have been CB :thumright: Thanks for looking. It may have been in an old thread somewhere. Or was it a dream :shaking2:
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fitz if the driver gets to have totties while operating Im in! :drunken:
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Well it sure as hell isn't a Mako!
What a really different hull Scott.
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Here is the earliest Aquasport official publication I know of - from Yachting in June, 1965. The lines are the same, but it does not mention stringers and whether what's under the deck is wood or glass:
(http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j7/GoneFission/June1965AquasportYachting.jpg)
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Very cool looking boat.
I have a great idea. lets see if your boys from Onslow have a 90hp tiller we could borrow for the weekend. Bring her to the reunion. I'll run that boat for the tourney. :cheers: :cheers:
Then again Id guess you'd have to get her registered. Anyway what are you plans for her?
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Found these pictures of 66 stringers in a old rebuild thread
Seems there was not much too them, the foam most have supported the deck more then the stringers
http://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=3570.0
Capt Matt
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CJ, thanks as always!
Scott, you and Farley are thinking alike. Tiller steering would be neat. In the offseason, we could send it to the bayou as a gator boat :lol:
It for sure could be used at the reunion. We could trailer it and all the fishing tackle, cooking gear, kegs, food, babes, etc, like a float in a parade :lol:
My plans for her in the future...not sure yet. I just wanted to land her here at the club.
Matt, thanks for taking the time to dig this up. We now know that the '66 had plywood stringers, the '69 fiberglass stringers. The '67 and '68 models are the mystery.
Guys, we are trying to determine, for historical reference, when fiberglass stringers were introduced. We know that all boats produced by the Aquasport company had fiberglass stringers (thanks CJ on this). Before the name change, the earliest boats were all 22-2 C&S Flatbacks. The flatback offering was discontinued in '71-'72 with the introduction of the 12 degree 22-2.
Now here's where it becomes interesting. One of our members has a '66 diver, stating on the original papers "Manufactured by Coburn and Sargent Co., Hialeah, FL" model: "Aquasport".
Proof in the pudding would be documented '67 and '68 rebuilds. Hammerhead shows what is labeled a '68 with plywood stringers...my previous link. But some of us feel this was an earlier boat.
Any '67 or '68 Flatback owners that can input...many thanks!
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Scott, what a find
In the pictures of the 69 from the link it was 4 stringers wide, while my 69 as you can see from the pictures was a 5 wide stringer system. These boats most have continually adapted while still being built.
Good stuff
Capt Matt
<a href="http://s836.photobucket.com/albums/zz281/captmattmitchell/?action=view&current=S5000005.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz281/captmattmitchell/S5000005.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket">[/url](http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz281/captmattmitchell/S5000005.jpg)
It may well be possible that that the four stringer boat began production in '68....
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!967 is archived as the year of change.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=265 (http://www.classicaquasport.com/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=265)
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Our boat is titled as a 1967 Coburn & Sargent. As you can see from the pictures it has 5 fiberglass stringers.
Hope this helps solve the mystery :D
(http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n565/cleemoore/IMG_0208-2.jpg)
(http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n565/cleemoore/DSC02704.jpg)
(http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n565/cleemoore/DSC02630.jpg)
Before restoration
(http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n565/cleemoore/228485_10150190039854737_759214736_6828062_266387_n.jpg)
After restoration
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Wonder if they layed it up with fire retardant resin like an old navy boat?!
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Jay, thank you very much! That solves the mystery. Means every boat from 1967 forward had fiberglass stringers. Your five stringer boat is the same as Matt's '69 model. Matt's friend has a '68 that has four fiberglass stringers. Neat stuff!
Your boat turned out beautifully.
Thanks! :thumright:
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http://www.hammerheadlivewell.com/flatb ... g-boat.htm (http://www.hammerheadlivewell.com/flatback-fishing-boat.htm)
We can now say with certainty that this "1968" was a '66 model.
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Jay, thank you very much! That solves the mystery. Means every boat from 1967 forward had fiberglass stringers. Your five stringer boat is the same as Matt's '69 model. Matt's friend has a '68 that has four fiberglass stringers. Neat stuff!
Your boat turned out beautifully.
Thanks! :thumright:
Glad I could be of help!! Sorry it took so long to respond had some rain storms and the internet was knocked out :(
I was wondering though, why some of the '66 and earlier flatbacks are titled Aquasport and yet my '67 is titled as a C&S. Can't figure that one out. :scratch: Another mystery to solve?
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Gran
The flatback my buddy has he got with no title so we where kind of guessing its age. Its wooden stringers 4 wide solve the mystery: it must be a 66 or earlier.
Capt Matt
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Gotcha Matt, thanks for the clarification. This means all flatbacks beginning in '67 had five trapezoid fiberglass foam-filled stringers.
Jay, member Callyb has shed some light on this. His 1966 title lists the manufacturer as Coburn and Sargent, the MODEL was "Aquasport." Your 1967 was still officially a C&S, but with the new stringer system. I'd be willing to bet a shiny penny that you own one of the last C&S's ever produced :thumright:
Brothers, we have one more flatback mystery to solve, and here it is. In what year were casting deck hatches first installed?
Thanks!
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Gran, here are some pictures of the casting deck before restoration. As you can see there are hatches, as far as I can tell/know this is the original casting deck and hatches.
(http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n565/cleemoore/DSC02641-1.jpg)
(http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n565/cleemoore/DSC02643-1.jpg)
(http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n565/cleemoore/DSC02679-1.jpg)
*By the way still have some of the original hatches if anyone needs them*
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Thanks for the pics Jay. Yours is just like mine, access was from the vertical hatch at the rear.
The cut out horizontal hatch is not original, it was added later IMHO.
Maybe they added the molded-in deck hatches in '68? We're getting closer. Matt's '69 had molded-in deck hatches.
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Here is my guess, in 67 when the C&S became a Aquasport thats when the stringers changed to the foam filled trapazoid type and possibly when the front deck hatches appeared too. There could be a few that where being built at the name change time that where kind of a hybrid between the two models.
Good stuff
Capt Matt
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Based upon our research, I agree with you Matt. 1967 was the year of change.
The company name changed in 1967 to "Aquasport."
We have proven through owner input that the stringer configuration changed in 1967 as well.
From plywood stringers in 1966 to a very stout five trapezoid stringer system in 1967. The five stringer system on the late sixties flatbacks became two stringers in '72 with the introduction of the twelve degree 22-2.
The original 22-2 flatback was then discontinued.
Sure wish they had carried over the five stringer system of the flatback to the two stringer twelve degree 22-2 model introduced in 1972.
Would have made a rebuilder's life much easier, and cheaper too. Would have given something to build to on the sides.
The only question left....in what year were molded casting deck hatches introduced on the sixties 22-2?
Most likely 1968...but without owner pics...we're not there yet.
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Based upon our research, I agree with you Matt. 1967 was the year of change.
That has me curious now.... Mine is registered as a 1966, but I know that it has the trapezoid stringers because at some point someone cut a hatch in my floor and made a space for a bilge pump. Now another question is 4 or 5 stringers. I'll answer that question over the winter.
I'll try and search the forum later and see what I can come up with for C&S serial numbers to try and add some more input on the subject. If anyone has any info on how many boats were made under the C&S name I think we could really nail this down. BTW, the s/n of my boat is 232.
Very sweet find by the way....
Talk to you later.
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Callyb,
Where did you find the SN on your '66 C&S? I have not seen nor found the SN on our '67 C&S.
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Cally, thanks!
Maybe they made the change in late '66. After chatting with Matt, feel sure it is a five stringer system. We're not sure now that there ever was a four stringer flatback.
Jay, mine didn't have numbers either. Neither did Matt's.
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Where did you find the SN on your '66 C&S? I have not seen nor found the SN on our '67 C&S.
It's on a placard, which I think is plastic, riveted to the port side of the transom. My particular boat spent it's life in New England, so that is why I think it is still there. Also, after looking at the pics of the fire boat's floor I realized mine hasn't been rebuilt either...
Here's a picture of the placard. It's in the resources forum.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/2012-07-26_13-43-26_195.jpg)
Maybe they made the change in late '66.
Scott, I'm not even 100% sure it is a 1966... I mean, honestly, there is no way to know for certain unless I stumble across some production numbers for each year. The only confidence I really have is a sales receipt for the boat from '81. I really wish I had a copy of the original sales receipt. But, that is like wishing I would never have to poop in a public restroom ever again...
Either way, I'll keep searching around the interwebernets until I find something. Or give up. :lol:
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Cally, good stuff!
Hey, at least we have that placard!
And we DO know that YOUR boat was #232. Since all production records were destroyed by fire....we don't know if numbered production began at 000 or 100.
This is getting better all the time :thumright:
If we could find a plywood stringer boat in conjunction with a placard like yours....CAS could star on "History's Mysteries".
:lol: :lol:
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Found these pictures of 66 stringers in a old rebuild thread
Seems there was not much too them, the foam most have supported the deck more then the stringers
<!-- l -->viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3570&start=15 (http://www.classicaquasport.com/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3570&start=15)<!-- l -->
Capt Matt
Guys, take a close look at the photos...the early '66 model has seven plywood stringers, counting the two outboard:
http://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=3570.0
From the same thread, the owner "Bhard" states that there were smaller cross-members tied into the short stringers, which by his own admission could have been added later, but removed at demolition.
Good stuff Matt.
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Scott I don't see any outboard stringers in that thread. Seems there are 5 stringers.
(http://i650.photobucket.com/albums/uu223/bnwhard/Aquasport%20Rebuild/25f27e9d.jpg)
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The correct term may not be "stringer"....but there are definitely seven longitudinals.
Here's a '66 they called a '68....it has seven longitudinals too:
http://www.hammerheadlivewell.com/flatb ... g-boat.htm (http://www.hammerheadlivewell.com/flatback-fishing-boat.htm)
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1971 Flatback. End of production, or close.
Note the difference in the stringer system. True five stringer system here.
http://tampa.craigslist.org/hil/boa/3292485380.html (http://tampa.craigslist.org/hil/boa/3292485380.html)
CB, if you could capture the stringer pic before it is deleted from Craig's....much appreciated.
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Glad you got that Fire boat. What a unique piece of history that begs to be restored to original.
Our '68 Diver has 4-5 Trapezoid fiberglass stringers.
The forward deck had no top hatch access before we tore it out.
I thought it was hull #456 but that sounds high. I'll ask Joel.
Good to be back,
Bob
Those guys
'68 Diver (still mostly original)
'69 Diver inboard (waiting)
'74 19-6 (sold)
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Hi Bob, wondered what happened to you and Joel.
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CB, if you could capture the stringer pic before it is deleted from Craig's....much appreciated.
My pleasure. :salut:
Scott, it's saved in my gallery if you (or anyone else) wants it.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/Flatback_Stringers.jpg)
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Excellent!
Thank you very much my friend :thumright:
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Excellent!
Thank you very much my friend :thumright:
Just one good Muslim to another. :mrgreen:
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Glad you got that Fire boat. What a unique piece of history that begs to be restored to original.
Our '68 Diver has 4-5 Trapezoid fiberglass stringers.
The forward deck had no top hatch access before we tore it out.
I thought it was hull #456 but that sounds high. I'll ask Joel.
Good to be back,
Bob
Those guys
'68 Diver (still mostly original)
'69 Diver inboard (waiting)
'74 19-6 (sold)
Bob, and those guys,
Thanks!
Also thanks for returning to the fold :thumright:
Glad the original flatback is being revisited. It was the only hull produced by C&S, and later Aquasport Inc., until 1972.
Every Aquasport since has it's roots in this boat.
The diver models like yours with the viewing windows are particularly desirable IMHO. Based on the 1966 "Rudder" article, Coburn had a proprietary, undisclosed method for the window install. Can you shed any light on this?
Thanks
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Excellent!
Thank you very much my friend :thumright:
Just one good Muslim to another. :mrgreen:
Thanks :wink:
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Scott
I was talking to a 72 flatback owner at a tournament I just fished and he thinks they offered both hull models in 72 and even still in 73. I personally have never seen a 73 but that seems to make sense and maybe there are a few 1973's out there
Capt Matt
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Neat, thanks for the info Captain Matt. Although this thread is winding down, IMO we have accomplished a lot regarding early history.
Thanks everybody for the great input :salut: