Classic AquaSport
Aquasport Mechanicals - things that need a wrench, screwdriver or multimeter => Fuel tanks and anything about fuel systems => Topic started by: fmaster360 on April 10, 2012, 08:14:59 AM
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Been pumping for 10 minutes. Please help. The primer bulb isn't getting hard.
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1) is there gas in the tank?
2) has the bulb been recently replaced?
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Get a new fuel bulb, and/or check for any pinhole leaks in or around the primer bulb.
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has the bulb been recently replaced?
As in "is it installed in the correct direction"?
It happens, that's why BA asked.
Might be the infamous stuck check valve on the fuel pickup (if you have one).
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I think it's the check valve. Got it started though, I'll get some more info to you all later. Thanks!
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Carl,
Didn't you change the Fuel/water seperator filter? If you didn't get the new filter completely filled before spinning it on you probably had an air lock in the line, the primer bulb can be a real PIA if your trying to suck fuel from the tank through the filter if the filter had air trapped in the top at the manifold.
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Carl another tip on primer bulbs is how you hold them while priming. If you hold it with the arrow down the check balls will not seat and it will not pump. As already mentioned if there is air in there holding it arrow down or even horizontal it may not pump at all. You will find it will pump and prime MUCH faster if you hold the bulb arrow up while you prime it. This allows gravity to help seat the check balls in the valves.
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Carl another tip on primer bulbs is how you hold them while priming. If you hold it with the arrow down the check balls will not seat and it will not pump. As already mentioned if there is air in there holding it arrow down or even horizontal it may not pump at all. You will find it will pump and prime MUCH faster if you hold the bulb arrow up while you prime it. This allows gravity to help seat the check balls in the valves.
At Stamas, where I hung almost Exclusively Yamahas, we installed our bulbs in the bilge. Yam was VERY strict on making sure we oriented them vertically, arrow facing up...
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That is great advice guys. Always wondered why on the jon boat sometimes it was impossible to prime, other times easy.
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Always wondered why on the jon boat sometimes it was impossible to prime, other times easy.
Try a little WD40 on the oar locks. :idea:
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(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v53/Johnny_B/imagesqtbnANd9GcT6kBiiQG8IQzSAgRe-J.jpg)
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I know.
I need help.
Sometimes replies do something to me I can't describe.
I realize it's not the reply but rather me.
That sense of worthlessness I feel is all consuming at times but....
I'm trying to improve and admitting one's problem is the first step, still.....
Derail?
How 'bout Deplane, Deplane. :mrgreen:
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:lol:
Same here. I just could not resist.
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:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
(Hey just upped my post count, again)
:lol:
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silly question but is there fuel dripping out of the carbs? i had this happen to me and after ruled out the common bulb issue found that 2 of my floats were stuck down
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neg dude. there must be some sort of check valve int he carb inlet. see, if I disconnect it from the engine, I can put my finger over when I let go of the bulb, forcing fuel into the primer bulb. if I keep my finger on when I let go, fuel comes up to it, i can put it on the engine, and it fired right up. problem is, when the fuel gets out of the carbs after a few days, it won't prime because there is nothing holding air from going back into the primer bulb.
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You lost me on the finger deal. What side of the primer bulb are you talking about? The primer bulb has check valves on both sides of it so fuel or air should not get into it. So me thinks you have a bad primer bulb. Here is a link to a great article on primer bulbs: http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/primer.html
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I bought a new primer bulb from the marina at the dock, did the same thing. I basically compressed the pump, put my finger over the outlet, then let the bulb go. This made fuel come toward the bulb from the tank. After doing it several times, the bulb got fuel in it and was squirting it out, so I hooked it back up to the line going to the motor, squeezed it a few more times, and the engine fired right up.
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Carl another tip on primer bulbs is how you hold them while priming. If you hold it with the arrow down the check balls will not seat and it will not pump. As already mentioned if there is air in there holding it arrow down or even horizontal it may not pump at all. You will find it will pump and prime MUCH faster if you hold the bulb arrow up while you prime it. This allows gravity to help seat the check balls in the valves.
Fun stuff aside, I did not know this. Thanks. :thumright:
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neg dude. there must be some sort of check valve int he carb inlet. see, if I disconnect it from the engine, I can put my finger over when I let go of the bulb, forcing fuel into the primer bulb. if I keep my finger on when I let go, fuel comes up to it, i can put it on the engine, and it fired right up. problem is, when the fuel gets out of the carbs after a few days, it won't prime because there is nothing holding air from going back into the primer bulb.
A thought mentioned earlier.
viewtopic.php?p=39053#p39053 (http://www.classicaquasport.com/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?p=39053#p39053)
It has the exact same symptoms.
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Thanks Bob, other Bob mentioned that to me last night as well. I'm going to try and stop by WM and pick up a different barb today for the tank. I see the thing about holding the primer bulb up while pumping, and I definitely was not doing that, until I unplugged the fuel line to the engine and used my finger to create pressure while the bulb was expanding pulling fuel from the tank. I really like this boat, it's just that it is a victim of someone half assing (what seems) pretty much everything they ever did after it was a bit older. The stuff he had the mechanic do seems to be great, like the engine. Even though it's been rebuilt, man, it seems solid. But mounting the old transducer it had was like a Frankenstein project. And the drain plug? It had been pulled out and when reinstalled, was basically mounted with only caulk. Not even 5200. It's a good boat, just needs someone who wants it to be nice to own it for a while. With a few miscellaneous parts here and there, and a nice clean up, I bet it'll last forever.
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Well, it's back. I replaced the fuel barb which was an on/off with a straight through one. The old one upon removal appeared to be functioning fine. I have 3 primer bulbs now and all of them have the same problem. I just can't get fuel in the line. I'll prime and prime, and it's like I'm jut pulling in air. Sometimes, when I let the bulb expand, I'll disconnect it from the motor side and put my finger over it to speed up the process, but it still will at most get just a small bit of fuel in the bulb. Is it possible that there isa tube in my tank or something and it's just not going down deep enough? I think I have about a quarter tank of fuel, so it shouldn't be doing this. I've taken the boat OUT with just a quarter tank several times and I haven't had this damn problem until the last month. Please help!
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Carl, your pickup has a screen on the end of it, could be getting intermittantly clogged whereas gunk will flow to it when suction is present, flow away when there is lack of suction. Buttttt.....this wouldn't explain why once you get fuel to the motor it runs fine.
Anybody for a clogged vent line? Maybe a sagging vent line with enough fuel in it where at times it can't vent the tank?
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Do you have a fuel/water separator? Is it full of gas when you remove it? You could have a air leak around the separator gasket. If the filter is not full, fill it up and replace, make sure you put a nice bead of oil on the gasket. My bulb takes about 7 or 8 squeezes to get it primed after sitting. One or two just doesn't do it. What brand of bulbs have you tried. I have had good luck with the OEM Evinrude or the Merc one. The attwood or seachoice ones just don't work in my experience.
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I vote for an air leak.
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Two votes for air leak.
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Has the fuel line between the bulb and the tank been replaced? How about the 90 degree fitting on the tank?
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Has the fuel line between the bulb and the tank been replaced? How about the 90 degree fitting on the tank?
^^^this would be my best guess.. silly question but do you run E-free gas in it?
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No ethanol on the boat.
I have a replacement fuel water separator filter, but I have not installed it yet. I will do that tuesday.
We put about 30 gallons in the boat, giving it around 35 as a total probably, and when I went to the dock I was able to prime the boat using my finger trick. It would not prime just by squeezing the bulb. I disconnected the motor side of the bulb, held it with the arrow up, and used my finger on the outlet to create suction when I would let the bulb expand forcing it to draw from the tank.
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Using that method, how long did it take for the bulb to expand? Once it was fully expanded and holding it vertical, did any air come out when you squeezed it? Did you get a nice stream of fuel when squeezed? Did it refill itself again?
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Regardless if there is ethanol on the boat or not, the previous owner may have used ethanol fuel. If the fuel lines are not resistant to ethanol they could be damaged and preventing fuel from getting to the motor. I had to replace a fuel line in mine due to ethanol damage, no fuel was getting to the motor.
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Regardless if there is ethanol on the boat or not, the previous owner may have used ethanol fuel. If the fuel lines are not resistant to ethanol they could be damaged and preventing fuel from getting to the motor. I had to replace a fuel line in mine due to ethanol damage, no fuel was getting to the motor.
Ok, well I guess it's probably a good idea to replace the fuel lines then. How does the line in the tank work? Is there a line that goes to the bottom of the tank to pick up fuel?
Using that method, how long did it take for the bulb to expand? Once it was fully expanded and holding it vertical, did any air come out when you squeezed it? Did you get a nice stream of fuel when squeezed? Did it refill itself again?
I'd say about 10 pumps. Once it was fulled, it seemed that a bit of air would still come out when squeezed, but there was enough of a stream to hook it back up to the engine, and once connected to that, it got 100% solid with fuel.
Side note: When I install the fuel/water separator, I'm guessing I need to fill that up all the way with fuel before assembling it into the mount, as I'm reading in the past pages?
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Side note: When I install the fuel/water separator, I'm guessing I need to fill that up all the way with fuel before assembling it into the mount, as I'm reading in the past pages?
yup, if you dont, you'd never get that primer bulb to prime
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More on the ethanol subject Fernando brought up. I have seen fuel lines that were soft a gummy from ethanol. I mean REALLY soft! The line could be collapsing under suction. Something else is going on here. Your finger trick is basically a check valve. The same thing the check valves in the primer bulb should be doing. Strange... I'd like to see that thing in person.
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More on the ethanol subject Fernando brought up. I have seen fuel lines that were soft a gummy from ethanol. I mean REALLY soft! The line could be collapsing under suction. Something else is going on here. Your finger trick is basically a check valve. The same thing the check valves in the primer bulb should be doing. Strange... I'd like to see that thing in person.
:thumright:
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How hard is it to run new fuel line? I am guessing there is some fuel line that goes down into the tank as well?
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Should be a metal or other hard type plastic pickup tube in the tank. I'm not that familiar with your boat but it should be pretty easy to snake a new line in there... probably a good idea anyway.
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So, don't open the tank, and replace fuel line from the barb on tank that I replaced, to the separator, to the engine? Skip putting new line in the tank? Best place to get the fuel line? And while I'm at it, should I relocate the bulb to inside the transom?
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I'm going to replace the fuel/water separator today. I have a sneaking suspicion that it is part of my problem since it's so old. Does the filter resemble an oil filter on a car? I just fill it up with gas instead of oil, and then hand tighten it? Thanks in advance.
Oh, what's the best place to order the fuel line?
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The filter will fill itself when you pump the bulb.
Below the elbow going into the tank is an aluminum pickup tube, if the tank is aluminum. If the tank is poly, the tube will be hard white gas-resist plastic.
Did you check for an air leak? You can use soap suds, etc.
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I'll try, but I don't think I'll find it if there is one because the entire fuel line is pretty much inside the hull. The fuel water separator has a thing ring gasket freely in the box. Which side does that go on? Top or bottom?
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Fuel water separator went in without too much of a PITA. Problem still exists. I guess it's time for all new fuel lines.
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Hi,
At some point, its time for a professional diagnosis. How far are you from Weeki-Wachee :?: