Classic AquaSport
Aquasport Model Rebuilds, Mods, Updates and Refreshes => Osprey Style Hull Rebuilds => 196 Rebuilds => Topic started by: imonna 19 6 on April 02, 2012, 09:46:49 PM
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Hi All,
I know, I am a broken record when it comes to the wet foam in my 19 6, but things have changed and i had to do something about the weight. Short version:
Wife got pretty sick over the winter and we lost 4 months of pay. She is on the mend and will be fine, but our finances took a hit and money available for $4/gallon gas at .5 MPG doesn't exist.
Having a pretty boat that you cant run, doesnt make any sense, so I decided that cosmetic damage was worth the reduced weight of cutting the deck open and digging it out,.
the plan: cut 3 1-sq foot deck holes on each side of the boat between the stringers and sides. Space them about 36" apart (the reach length of my arm is 18"),and dig out the foam.
My plan was to make all cuts at 45 degrees so the plug can rest back into the hole be epoxied in place, shim the extra 1/8 space on each side from the saw blade loss and there would be no chance of collapse through (like the top of a pumpkin).
Well, I cut the first hole, but ended up hugging the side because I didnt want to cut into the stringer. This meant I was too close to the side and the saw couldnt make the angle. I had to do two sides at 90 degrees.
(http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb452/imonna196/28e17994.jpg)
Once I dig out the foam and get a good position on the stringer, I can make a more accurate cut for the next hole and stay away from the side, getting 4 45 degree cuts.
the report....after I peeled the floor off, I found the cavity was foamed to the gills and that it is (as we suspected) sopping wet. :cheers:
(http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb452/imonna196/affd3a0b.jpg)
(http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb452/imonna196/20f9598f.jpg)
Why cheers, because with the logic and help of gran, slvrlng, and a few others we determined through deduction that my low draft was water weight related and that foam must be outside the stringers. Making that cut was hard, but finding foam soup made it justified.
So I will leave this first post with one question.
since i do not have 45 degree cuts on all side to support the plug, what would be the best way to re-attach the plug (without a full reglass of the top). :?:
Would a brace attached to the underside lip of the flat cut edges. followed by epoxy around the plug be enough to keep it secure.
Before responding, please know that I have no money and am not currently looking at anything other than functional safety. I want to reinstall a solid floor piece that isnt a trip hazard.
On hand I have chopped mat, a couple quarts of west system, some filler, some 5200, some 4200. Play MacGyver with that and see what you think.
The whole floor will have to be done someday anyway, so I leave it till then.
(ps, yes my floor core is also soaked....save that for another day)
I didnt have time to dig any out, hopefully tomorrow.
Thanks
Bill
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First- sorry to hear about the hard times and Hopefully your wife is back on the track to good health and enjoying family time!
Once you let the cavities dry out really well, you might be able to glass ledger strips along the bottom side of the rest of the floor you cut out- think: drywall patch... this will not be super strong, but it can help. Do you plan to go back with any new foam or are you going to leave the new dry cavities empty? you could also measure and cut 3" PVC columns that you could class to the hull that would support your cut-outs when you glass them back down.
I think your biggest problem is going to be that your floor core is soaked, so your 45 angles aren't going to have the strongest edges to rest on.
Sorry, my background is home construction, so I think that way. Hopefully my PVC option makes sense (even if it isnt the best idea)...
You could also "thru bolt" 3/4 or 1" starboard strips across the opening (on the bottom side obviously) that the cut-out could rest on. Then glass your cut-out back. Leaving the screws (with finish washers so they are smooth) holding the starboard in place- I would try to use the largest washers possible on the underside. (if starboard doesnt work, and this is just a temporary fix- you could use plywood that is glassed so it's encapsolated.
An you could also take a measurement from your first cut out there so you know where your stringers are- and on your next cut outs- set the depth of your saw so you just cut the floor out and not the stringer. Have your cut out go over part of the stringer so the floor can rest on it.
For the foam removal- try a small paint mixer attached to a strong drill to help chip up the foam- then just shop vac it out.
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also, if your floor core is that soaked, I bet you could cut out your floor and peal off the top pretty easily- then just buy some cheap plywood to re-core it. Then you'd only have some 3" strips to glass everything back together. I think there is a post from a few years ago from maybe Flyaquasport where he replaced just the floor and left the edges of the tank opening for the coffin lid to sit back on.
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what about using a plastic hatch and creating some storage?
http://greatlakesskipper.com/category-1 ... tches.html (http://greatlakesskipper.com/category-1/22_23-boat-hatches-port-windows-deck-hatches.html)
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what about using a plastic hatch and creating some storage?
<!-- m -->http://greatlakesskipper.com/category-1 ... tches.html (http://greatlakesskipper.com/category-1/22_23-boat-hatches-port-windows-deck-hatches.html)<!-- m -->
Like this:
http://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=5395.0
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All good ideas. I also thought of 4200 and aluminum diamond plate as a low profile cheap solution.
I just have to not care about the looks and do what is safest first and cheapest second.
Once I dig out the foam and see what kind of space I have I will look into storage hatches.
good point about the wet core being structurally weak. I fear my first cut is so close to the side that a hatch fit, but wont worry too much about that yet.
Hey Gonefission, did you notice a visible difference in how your boat sat in the water at the stern after you got that foam out.?
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got in there today and took foam out sopping wet top to bottom
.....grand total so far
33 lbs
(http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb452/imonna196/117494ff.jpg)
(http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb452/imonna196/06e12aea.jpg)
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well, two days 5 deck holes, and some very bruised up arms later, i pulled 215 lbs of wet foam out of both sides. I am going to put hatches into 3 of the holes for extra storage and am going to reseal up two small holes along the control tunnel. I'll try and get some pics if anyone is inbterested in where i made the cuts.
Bill
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Good deal Bill...you're gonna gain some speed too :thumright:
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gran, (or anyone else),
Do you think 215 lbs is gonna make a noticable difference?
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Bill,
If you think about it, should you have torn out that foam from a newly minted boat 40 years ago, the same amount, volume wise, wouldn't have weighed 5 lbs. The more you can get out, the better off you'll be... :salut:
Because, as it stands, that foam ain't doing a damn thing except slowing you down and eating up fuel... :x
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Exactly. And that's just the portion you can get too.
Dig out all you can...then re-foam the stringers as necessary for structural integrity.
And hey...way to take the bull by the horns :thumright:
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Think of it this way...you'll be able to get 5 in the boat and move at the same speed/efficiency as with 4 people prior to the foam removal...
That seems like it was more than worth it to me. How much more is left in there?
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The foam that is between the liner and the hull in the sides was pretty dry and I liked the dampening effect it has, so i left that in...note that it is wide open underneath now, so water can only move down and empty out, cant get absorbed upward.
The stringers are enclosed and are pretty clearly wet.
I couldnt reach about two linear feet of foam on the port side where the deck approaches the casting platform. Since the space in that section is only about 5" high, i made the calculated decision to leave it in rather than cut another hole. can always do that down the road too.
The starboard side has just a little foam around the fuel lines that i left in place (maybe 1 linear foot).
Beyond that the boat is foam free.
I'll try to get some pics tomorrow if the rain holds off.
Bill
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Great work. I'm really curious to see your results. For the most part the deck on my 19-6 seems rock solid, and I haven't been brave enough to cut into it to find out what's under there yet, but I'm sure down the road I will need to. The boat sits well in the water with 2 people on board, but I haven't weighted it down with 4-5 and full gear/fuel/etc, so who knows what that would do to it. Look forward to pics of the final product.
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Aqua,
Keep in mind the foam is not there, nor was it ever intended, to lend a hand in support of the cockpit sole. The foam is shot in first to fill the cavities between the stringers, b/heads, whatever. If it rises above the stringer top level, it is shaved down so it doesn't interfere with decking the boat. The stringers and b/heads are what support the sole.
Foam should never be shot into cavities after the boat has been decked, unless there are strategically placed "foam holes" to allow excess foam to escape should an over-zealous gun operator be on the trigger. With no where to go, foam will pop even a cured bond line loose if there is too much expansion.
Actually kind of a neat noise it makes... :shock: :shock:
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I probably wasn't very clear earlier...I think I was on the iPhone at the time.
What I mean is that I have not cut into my deck at all yet, as it seems to be pretty solid and hasn't given me a reason to. However, if I did cut into it, I would want to see if any foam underneath is wet, as many people have encountered with AS's of my age (and even newer). A very common theme on here seems to be a 70's AS sitting low in the water or "below the water line", causing owners to get creative on scupper covers, etc. The one time I have splashed my boat since purchasing it (have to replace the trim motor), mine sat pretty well in the water with two people aboard. However, I haven't really tried loading it down yet.
Definitely not looking to shoot foam into my boat; just curious as to what type of results the OP sees after pulling out that much weight from his boat. After having read most of the threads on here before purchasing mine, eventually cutting into the deck to remove wet foam was always something I figured would be necessary. So far, so good; but haven't gotten too from the dock far just yet! Sorry if I'm lost in translation somewhere!