Classic AquaSport
Aquasport Mechanicals - things that need a wrench, screwdriver or multimeter => Plumbing => Topic started by: 305kingfisher1954 on March 05, 2012, 09:35:50 AM
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I'm installling a 1 1/4'' bronze clamshell thru hull for my livewell and washdown in my 222...Which way should the slots in the clamshell face? Just not sure, I've seen the slots facing foreward.,aft and even sideways. I was thinking if the slots were faced forward it would pressurized the system while running and if the slots were to the aft it would restrict the water flow..so is sideways the way to go?., it looks like shur flow shows it sideways on one of their installation sheets, just not sure...
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Forward facing. When you are running, turn off your pump and the pressure will take care of the intake for fresh water for fish.
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Forward facing...but I've always heard leave the pump on so the impeller spins at a constant speed, ie, won't burn out prematurely.
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Interesting - I heard turn it off so it will spin freely and not go against the motor trying to spin at a certain speed.
POLL???
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Interesting - I heard turn it off so it will spin freely and not go against the motor trying to spin at a certain speed.
POLL???
Yoda? Yoda?
(This is Pete's new name for Seabob)
:lol:
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Forward facing...but I've always heard leave the pump on so the impellar spins at a constant speed, ie, won't burn out prematurely.
From the time I get onto the boat to the time I load her boat back on the trailer my livewell pump is on. Regardless if i'm underway or on the hook eating fried chicken.
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Well my pump is a diaphragm type (Shurflo Bait Master) so no impeller is involved.
Doesn't make much sense to run it on the way out or back because boat movement does its job (pumping) thus extending the usable service of the pump.
Obviously, if your not using the well, you wouldn't run the pump but if you have concerns about the inner workings of it, keep the sea cock closed. Problem is, that's kind of a PITA if you use the wash down a lot.
Solution.
Get a diaphragm pump and pay less attention to the impeller bushing that doesn't exist. :idea:
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Doesn't make much sense to run it on the way out or back because boat movement does its job (pumping) thus extending the usable service of the pump.
Hogwash, my boat has been in service for 11+ years and the livewell is on all the time, it's only on its second pump.
Well my pump is a diaphragm type (Shurflo Bait Master) so no impeller is involved.
Solution.
Get a diaphragm pump and pay less attention to the impeller bushing that doesn't exist. :idea:
I can't tell you how many of those pumps I have replace in boats down at the shop. They go bad all the time.
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Doesn't make much sense to run it on the way out or back because boat movement does its job (pumping) thus extending the usable service of the pump.
Hogwash, my boat has been in service for 11+ years and the livewell is on all the time, it's only on its second pump.
Well while you're washin' your hog, explain how you have determined that it would not have lasted longer. You might still be using the same pump for all you know. Every mechanical device has a lifetime.
Well my pump is a diaphragm type (Shurflo Bait Master) so no impeller is involved.
Solution.
Get a diaphragm pump and pay less attention to the impeller bushing that doesn't exist. :idea:
I can't tell you how many of those pumps I have replace in boats down at the shop. They go bad all the time.
Can't argue with that. You have actually seen the failure and replace them but let's look at the original question and how we got here.
Member asked about clam shell pickup orientation. Next a member recommended a position and added the little snippet about running the live well pump continuously. Another member stated he had heard the opposite. It appeared to me that both members were discussing a type of live well pump that was impeller driven and was mounted in the inlet line upstream of the clam shell. Now unless the original poster is going to run two separate pumps (and perhaps he is, it was never stated) then my experience with running a single diaphragm has merit based on the fact that you don't need to worry about line pressure shortening the life of the pump.
Lastly, I don't use my well on every trip and not carrying an additional 130lbs of seawater seems like a good idea but if I did, I still don't need to run it coming and going. I'm spending enough in fuel not to get the benefit of some free water pressure.
You never stated where your pump was located or the type. Maybe you're on to something about running a diaphragm type continuously. :idea:
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Wow - that got heated. I almost thought I was on the THT for a minute.
I did post the "poll" on the THT - see what they said..... http://www.thehulltruth.com/boating-forum/409453-pump-off-when-running-clamshell-intake.html
I think it is fair to say, answering the original question - the vent faces forward.
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For baitwell applications, an impeller style pump is used most often because:
a. Cost. They are inexpensive at 19-30 bucks vs. 150 bucks
b. Current drain. 1 amp vs. 6 amps (rough numbers)
c. Noise. The impeller is virtually silent, the diaphragm loud.
d. Volume. Max volume on a diaphragm pump 360 gph. That is why they are usually advertised at gpm.
For baitwell/washdown applications (washdown being the operative word) a diaphragm pump is preferred because:
a. Self-priming, usually advertised to a 12 foot head. It can suck all of the air it wants....it will always self-prime. Not true with the little pump.
b. Maintains constant line pressure, just like a well pump...or with air, a compressor.
c. Longer life, more reliable
The ideal set up would be one of each, the little pump at the seacock with two outlets, one to the well and the other to the big pump. The big pump could also easily be plumbed as a livewell backup.
Anyway...face the pickup forward :lol:
Wes, that wern't heated, they was jus a talkin' about their hogs an all :lol:
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Wow - that got heated. I almost thought I was on the THT for a minute.
Nah,
Just good ol' boys talking about hogwashin' :mrgreen:
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:lol:
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Okay, so my question now is : Does the diaphragm pump put out enough water to wash a hog? :lol:
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Wait - what kind of hog?
- Feral?
- Rooter?
- Russian?
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Well, I think I got my answer..thanks guys..as for turning the pump on or off, I think I'll take my chances and leave it on, knowing myself, I'm sure there will be times that I'll forget to turn it back on when I arrive at my destination,,,I am installing the Hammerhead 43 galllon livewell and thinking about going with a rule professional 800 gph, shurflo bait sentry or pirahana 800 gph pump with a johnson 5.3 gal washdown pump connected to the port in the livewell pump...Anyt recomendations for the best livewell pumps to use ????
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Matt and the other guides will hopefully input on the 800 of their liking.
The good news about your setup with the diaphragm pump above-line...you will never worry about losing prime on the bait pump.
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Ok here's one to add to the discussion. I don't try to keep threadfins and green backs alive. Don't need a lot of circulation so I'm going to try something on this boat that I've always wanted to do. The factory inlet is at the bottom of the baitwell and comes through the transom. I am going to use a Rule through hull baitwell pump mounted very near the top of the water level that it seeks in the bait well. The pump will be mounted throught the skin of the bait well and pump water out of the bait well via a hose and thru hull fitting. Will it work?
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I run 2 pirahana 800 gph pumps to my hammerhead livewell along with a johnson 5.3 gal washdown pump all on there own thru hull fittings. The pirahana pumps are cheap and easy to switch out, I have ran Shurflows and rule tournament series pumps in the past and in my opinion they do not last any longer than the cheap pumps. My clam shells point forward.
The livewell pumps do loose prime when I lift the boat out on the lift but once back in the the water they start shooting water as soon as I start moving forward. I run at least one of my livewell pumps all day everyday I'm out and usually get between 3-6 months life out of a pump, the stainers roughly double the life of the pirahana pumps.
Maybe I'm not understanding your pump idea. I don't think will work as its too far for the pump to pull the water. I have seen these hammerhead livewells rigged with a recirculating pump mounted through the skin of the well, its a great option to have besides your raw water pumps if you are towing your boat or fishing during red tide.
Capt Matt
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Ok here's one to add to the discussion. I don't try to keep threadfins and green backs alive. Don't need a lot of circulation so I'm going to try something on this boat that I've always wanted to do. The factory inlet is at the bottom of the baitwell and comes through the transom. I am going to use a Rule through hull baitwell pump mounted very near the top of the water level that it seeks in the bait well. The pump will be mounted throught the skin of the bait well and pump water out of the bait well via a hose and thru hull fitting. Will it work?
You could always call Robin and ask :lol:
I think the distance of pull for the pump will be your greatest obstacle.
I am still soooooooo unbelievably angry that the recirculating pump was not installed in my livewell.
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Ok here's one to add to the discussion. I don't try to keep threadfins and green backs alive. Don't need a lot of circulation so I'm going to try something on this boat that I've always wanted to do. The factory inlet is at the bottom of the baitwell and comes through the transom. I am going to use a Rule through hull baitwell pump mounted very near the top of the water level that it seeks in the bait well. The pump will be mounted throught the skin of the bait well and pump water out of the bait well via a hose and thru hull fitting. Will it work?
Keith, see what you're getting at.
You are thinking push vs. pull in a closed system. In theory it should work, but as wess says, it is a long run. There probably won't be enough pressure on the discharge end to allow for pull on the intake.
The main thing is to get water to the well (via a pump) and an outlet 2X diameter of the inlet via gravity will remove it. If you want a low flow...use a valve or go to a 300 gph.
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Wow - that got heated. I almost thought I was on the THT for a minute.
Nah,
Just good ol' boys talking about hogwashin' :mrgreen:
No offense meant and none taken. The scoop is meant to point forward, hence the term high speed pick-up. CB your point is a valid one, less use - longer life, but not relevant to the opposite sides of the fence that Scott and Wesnapp find themselves; Scotty, Wesnapp, and myself are using the livewell. My point was that leaving the pump on at speed does not hurt the pump and that the believe that turning the pump off when the boat is at speed is better for the pump is, wait for it............"Hogwash". :mrgreen:
At speed, regardless if the pump is on or off the impellor is spinning and the pump is accumulating revolutions. The biggest cause of pump failure is debris; weeds, sand, shell. If you want to get the most out of your pump be sure and install a strainer.
305King - I run an 1100 rule on my 48 gallon livewell. Its stays on from the time bait is caught till the boat is back on the trailer.
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Wow - that got heated. I almost thought I was on the THT for a minute.
Nah,
Just good ol' boys talking about hogwashin' :mrgreen:
No offense meant and none taken. The scoop is meant to point forward, hence the term high speed pick-up. CB your point is a valid one, less use - longer life, but not relevant to the opposite sides of the fence that Scott and Wesnapp find themselves; Scotty, Wesnapp, and myself are using the livewell. My point was that leaving the pump on at speed does not hurt the pump and that the believe that turning the pump off when the boat is at speed is better for the pump is, wait for it............"Hogwash". :mrgreen:
At speed, regardless if the pump is on or off the impellor is spinning and the pump is accumulating revolutions. The biggest cause of pump failure is debris; weeds, sand, shell. If you want to get the most out of your pump be sure and install a strainer.
305King - I run an 1100 rule on my 48 gallon livewell. Its stays on from the time bait is caught till the boat is back on the trailer.
That is true, I saw it. That's what Fernando does, the well is being constantly regenerated with new water as the well drains via the overflow.
Yes, the scoop faces forward. And it will fill a well when up to speed, with the shut-off valve open. But does it hurt the pump to have it off...or on? I suppose everyone has a different take on it. I would say no, the pump is not harmed by the water passing through it when off. But how would I know? A simulation test would have to be set up to determine that. Force water through a pump to simulate planning speeds versus turn the pump on and duplicate the same speeds, see which one lasts longer. Lots of fun...
So what would I do? Turn the pump on when the boat hits the water, leave it running until I get my bait. Turn it off, then run it every half hour or so, to get some clean water in there. Oh, dammit, there I go again, one would have to be cognizant as to when the pump scheduled run time is...might just throw the Frabill overboard, that solves the problem...a 40 gallon Frabill!!!
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Bob sound like you would need a timer http://www.cabelas.com/livewells-aerato ... adType=pla (http://www.cabelas.com/livewells-aerators-rig-rite-adjustable-livewell-timer-2.shtml?WT.tsrc=CSE&WT.mc_id=GoogleProductAds&WT.z_mc_id1=738067&rid=40&mr:trackingCode=73402F18-8732-E111-B2D2-001B21631C34&mr:referralID=NA&mr:adType=pla)
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Bob sound like you would need a timer http://www.cabelas.com/livewells-aerato ... adType=pla (http://www.cabelas.com/livewells-aerators-rig-rite-adjustable-livewell-timer-2.shtml?WT.tsrc=CSE&WT.mc_id=GoogleProductAds&WT.z_mc_id1=738067&rid=40&mr:trackingCode=73402F18-8732-E111-B2D2-001B21631C34&mr:referralID=NA&mr:adType=pla)
I need a timer for my life!!!
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Naw man...you're only thirty years old :lol:
My thinking is...if you're live bait fishing that day...get on the boat, shove some water through the clamshell....turn the damn thing on and leave it on. Your hard to catch live bait never died by leaving the pump on.
Take the opposite scenario, real world fishing adventure.
You fill the livewell with the pump on..and go to catch bait. You catch bait...turn the pump off...plane up. You're riding along, happy.
You slow down to cross a freighter wake. Or a yacht wake. Or whatever, you catch air. Remember, the pump is off.
You are only off-plane a few seconds. But not known to you...you've sucked air, lost flow. Airlock. Maybe the problem is in the pump that was turned off and now refuses to flow freely.
So you get to your secret hole 35 minutes later. You open the livewell....a couple out of fifty are sorta alive. The rest...dead. NO water in the livewell...empty. The water has drained back out through the livewell 3/4 inlet at the bottom of your tank, straight out the clamshell pickup in the bottom of the hull near the transom.
Water ALWAYS reaches the lowest point.
Happens a bunch. But really sucks when money is on the line in a KMT.
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Good point - it's on all day now.