Classic AquaSport
Aquasport Mechanicals - things that need a wrench, screwdriver or multimeter => Engines & engine woes => Topic started by: levelhead on February 13, 2012, 08:28:53 PM
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My 1999 245 Osprey has a 99 Johnson 200 Ocean Pro on it and I think its time for a new motor. I was considering a 2012 Evinrude 300 I-con ......uses the same mount holes and with the I-con I don't have to pull new shift/throttle cables into the overstuffed rigging tube...... But I'm worried about all the negative reports about powerhead failures due to Ethanol gas. Whats the true story? Any other problems with the new Evinrudes ?
I'm also considering the Honda 225 and Verado 300....what do you think?
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This is a question I've asked myself with my boat, If your concerned about weight (those Honda's are heavy ) and the new Yamaha's are getting lighter, I've heard enough bad things about E tecs to scare me alittle, Merc Opti Max is a good option as far as weight and you could do twin 125's or 150's for about the price of a 250 in any brand.
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Level,
Let's look at it this way. People who have good experiences with motors, widgets, blenders, whatever, usually do not start threads to say how GOOD their experience has been with them. So really, all we read is the one's that have had a bad experience. No, I'm not defending Evinrude, just stating what you already may know...
So, that being said, you have a decision to make. Do you stick with BRP and save in rigging costs (although the rigging is a BIT different with I-CON, and a whole lot more money!), or do you swap brands, say Yam, Opti, Vrod, and factor in the rigging swap over as part of the deal? And BTW, you're going to have to run some new rigging anyway with the I-CON system.
Going with twins, you'll also have to do some work on the boat to accept them. Patch the old mounting holes, add another rigging port, tie-bar for the steering, and another set of gauges (need a new gauge panel).
If she were my boat, and I very well may have built her, I'd de-rig entirely, hang a pair of 200 Optis on her (the hell with the capacity plate!), and be done with it. Maybe even a pair of 200 baby Vrods...
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Problem is ....I don't know how much truth there is in the " Evinrudes blow up" reports...nobody up here has a late Evi ....any forum guys have any direct experiences with later model Evinrudes?
I know I have to pull the I-con wire harness...but alot less hassle than 2 new shift/thottle cables....and... I'll never have to worry about stinking sticking cables again.
A friend has had big problems with his Opti.
I don't want to install twins.....price and the quality of the local dealers dictate its Evinrude or... Honda or Verado (both of these are "drive by wire" also I'm told.)
How are the late model Hondas and Verados holding up?
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Problem is ....I don't know how much truth there is in the " Evinrudes blow up" reports...nobody up here has a late Evi ....any forum guys have any direct experiences with later model Evinrudes?
I know I have to pull the I-con wire harness...but alot less hassle than 2 new shift/thottle cables....and... I'll never have to worry about stinking sticking cables again.
A friend has had big problems with his Opti.
I don't want to install twins.....price and the quality of the local dealers dictate its Evinrude or... Honda or Verado (both of these are "drive by wire" also I'm told.)
How are the late model Hondas and Verados holding up?
Hondas are damn near bullet proof, but they are NOT fly-by-wire...hell, they won't even put out a 300! The fly-by-wires are Zuke 300s, Vrods (and some few year old Optis), I-CON equipped Rudes, and Yam 300/350s.
You should drive a Verado powered boat. You WILL be impressed... :thumleft: :thumleft:
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Bob Honda's aren't fly by wire yet ?
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You should drive a Verado powered boat. You WILL be impressed... :thumleft: :thumleft:
That is for sure. I drove a Jupiter 31 with twin 250 VRODS once. Unbelievable. Super smooth, quiet, and POWERFUL. At idle you could barely hear them running. The flyby wire controls take some getting used to... but they are VERY nice.
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Bob Honda's aren't fly by wire yet ?
Nope. Their website says they are NMEA 2K compliant now...all that means is you can pull engine data up on your MFD...
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You should drive a Verado powered boat. You WILL be impressed... :thumleft: :thumleft:
That is for sure. I drove a Jupiter 31 with twin 250 VRODS once. Unbelievable. Super smooth, quiet, and POWERFUL. At idle you could barely hear them running. The flyby wire controls take some getting used to... but they are VERY nice.
Bruce,
The DTS binnacle is sweet, much better than the Zuke electronic binnacle. I had a chance to run one of the first I-CONs back in '09, rigged this little girl...
(http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh301/seabob4/Proline%20website%20pics/DSCF0663-2.jpg)
PL 32 Pilot with 300 Etecs. The binnacle is basically a Teleflex i6003 binnacle, which is pretty smooth in it's own right...
Running DTS binnacles makes cables seem cavemanish...
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That looks like a sweet boat.
Bob just re read this post, whats was the base motor on a 245, wasn't it a 225, a 200 seems small, heck it is on my boat.
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Running DTS binnacles makes cables seem cavemanish...
You can say that again. Coupled with the power steering you can drive the boat with two fingers...
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That looks like a sweet boat.
Bob just re read this post, whats was the base motor on a 245, wasn't it a 225, a 200 seems small, heck it is on my boat.
Scott,
Base was a 200, virtually all rigged with 225s in single form. We weren't dealing with Yam at the time (can you say someone didn't pay their bills?), so there was no 250 out there to rig. The very best set-up, IMO, was twin 150s, either OMCs or Mercs. She'd easily handle twin 200s, as I've stated before.
But nowadays, a 245/250 Explorer or Osprey would be a perfect candidate for a single 300. All the benefits of the HP of twin 150s, at about 2/3 of the weight, less drag...I mean, I'd throw a 300 Zuke or Vrod on the back and not worry a bit about reliability in relations to twins versus a single, i.e. get homeability. Today's OBs are so much more reliable than those of yesterday.
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That looks like a sweet boat.
She was the one I had the most influence on at PL. Some more pics...
(http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh301/seabob4/Proline%20website%20pics/DSCF0665.jpg)
(http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh301/seabob4/Proline%20website%20pics/DSCF0684.jpg)
(http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh301/seabob4/Proline%20website%20pics/DSCF0683.jpg)
(http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh301/seabob4/Proline%20website%20pics/DSCF0682.jpg)
(http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh301/seabob4/Proline%20website%20pics/DSCF0679.jpg)
(http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh301/seabob4/Proline%20website%20pics/DSCF0678.jpg)
Only built 3 of them. A real shame, as she was a winner! And 300s pushed her 50+!!
Hey, I know this is a bit of a de-rail, but Scott made the comment!!!
Really, this boat was a goddam kickass boat, and would have had a hell of a market in the NE, NW, the Great Lakes, had the marine market not took a huge dive. Just thought I'd put it out there...
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nice design Bob,that would give Parkers some competition,prolines were probly cheaper,and they only built 3? :scratch:
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Was a generator and ac an option on that boat ?
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the only problem in my experience with v-rods all where recalls...
first: the shift linkage which is under the powerhead on the early 2010's and earlier, they used a riveted stud instead of a welded stud, over time the rivet would break(usually when in gear). only way to replace is to lift the powerhead. every I-6 v-rpd in the marina had this done...
the second problem is shift module harness, sometimes there would be a short and cause the motor to shut off when shifting between f-n-r, usually while docking. the fix was to replace a section on the wire harness on the powerhead. this ive seen twice, one with a 250 on a 25 trophy, the other a 29 proline express with 250's
third problem was crank case seal on the bottom of powerhead where the lower units shaft goes in, the seal could easily become damaged and cause a leak. this i have only seen once, it was a pair of 275's on a 35 donzi
all of the issues where fixed as recalls, the customer didnt pay a penny, and issues where fixed within a few hours...
one nice thing a V-Rod has that no other motor has is that unmistakeable supercharger whine!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EygplLJO9h0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EygplLJO9h0)
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nice design Bob,that would give Parkers some competition,prolines were probly cheaper,and they only built 3? :scratch:
Was a generator and ac an option on that boat ?
Yeah, it was a shame, Pete. No clue whether they'll ever get back to production. And yes, Scott, 5KW Westerbeke and 18K BTU AC were options. The AC lived under the helm seat, ducted to feed both the cabin and the helm area. She could sit outside all day in the 95 degree August heat, open the door to the back door to the helm, like walking into your living room! That back wall alone cost us $3500... :shock:
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Bob, It's hard to tell in the pics. Was that a walk around model modified into a cabin?
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Bob, that's a sweet ride...how much did they go for?
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If you are going offshore or not is the question to ask yourself. If you go out a lot twin 150s would be my suggestion. Running on just one would still get you home fairly quickly. I am really liking these, looks like they are going for around 11,000 each.
http://www.mercurymarine.com/engines/ou ... rokes/150/ (http://www.mercurymarine.com/engines/outboards/fourstrokes/150/)
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Bruce,
The 32 Pilot was a 32 Express with a different deck, designed by my friend Steve Austin, down below she was identical to the 32 Express, except the forward end of the v-berth. That's where the AC unit lives on a 32 Express. You could also get the Pilot with the upper bunks, like the one in the pics has. And Scott, she went for around $200K equipped.
You'll also notice in the pic taken looking out the aft bulkhead how empty that building looks. That was the building I was in charge of, the "Widebody" building. We built 29s, 32s, and 35s in there. At the time that picture was taken, there were basically 4 of us in the whole plant building boats, once they came out of lamination. Brad Bush, who was in our play-off pool, was one of them. Somedays, except for break time, you wouldn't see another soul the whole day. Really kinda weird, as that building used to have, at any given time, (4) 32s, (4) 29s, and a couple 35s, and a couple 29 Super Sports, plus 3 outside going through final checks, week in, week out.
That 32 Pilot was originally rigged for for twin 300 Zukes. Then BRP (my buddy Kim Cagle) came to us, basically "giving" us the I-CON system if we installed it on this boat. So de-rigged everything, yanked the Zukes off (hung them in a corner on engine stands), then Kim and I spent a day and a half re-rigging her. The biggest part was at the motors, the newer 250s and 300s have machined in bosses to accept the shift and throttle actuators for the electronic controls, plus the powerhead gets an ECM that ties in with the electronics network behind the helm. Pretty slick, but, like with any electronic shift and throttle system, pretty pricey as well...
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Lewis,
The "new" 150 4 strokes are supposed to be the way to go, re-power wise, if you want 4-stroke and you want simplicity. I think I would wait a bit to see how they hold up over a few years...
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Talked to a Merc dealer today about a Vrod 300....he says it mounts into the same transom holes as the 200 Ocean Pro....somethin about universal mount holes since 98?
This is probably covered elsewhere but my main concern is how any of the motors will hold up once ethonal/gas is all we can get...the Merc guy says ya gotta put $$$$ snake oil in with every fill.
Anybody running the ethonal/gas thru their Vrod ?
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Talked to a Merc dealer today about a Vrod 300....he says it mounts into the same transom holes as the 200 Ocean Pro....somethin about universal mount holes since 98?
This is probably covered elsewhere but my main concern is how any of the motors will hold up once ethonal/gas is all we can get...the Merc guy says ya gotta put $$$$ snake oil in with every fill.
Anybody running the ethonal/gas thru their Vrod ?
What we call the BIA bolt pattern. All outboards have been this way for a LONG time...
The key to fuel is fuel treatment. Either Sta-Bil or Startron. Do a search on THT in relation to ethanol. And when we water tested boats at Proline with Vrods (almost everyday)? We filled up at the local Coastal on 19 in Crystal River. 10% Ethanol. In went a pint of Sta-Bil...
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What we call the BIA bolt pattern. All outboards have been this way for a LONG time...
Wow learned something again, so far I've been lucky, my boat has never seen that crap yet.
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What we call the BIA bolt pattern. All outboards have been this way for a LONG time...
Wow learned something again, so far I've been lucky, my boat has never seen that crap yet.
Funny what ya miss when you skip a post or two.
viewtopic.php?p=69361#p69361 (http://www.classicaquasport.com/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?p=69361#p69361)
A lot to read and twice as much to remember.
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What we call the BIA bolt pattern. All outboards have been this way for a LONG time...
Wow learned something again, so far I've been lucky, my boat has never seen that crap yet.
Funny what ya miss when you skip a post or two.
viewtopic.php?p=69361#p69361 (http://www.classicaquasport.com/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?p=69361#p69361)
A lot to read and twice as much to remember.
Now I really learned something :wink: I did miss that post :oops:
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CB is right about the new 150 four stroke merc, give it at least a year on the market so they can work out any problems. Never buy any outboard in the first year of production.
If you run the cheap ethanol fuel you gotta use a mixer, Cheap pints of additive are much cheaper than a fuel system rebuild.
Silvring; saw a pair of the new 4 stroke merc's the other day on a trophy, sweet motors shame about the boat though...
Capt Matt
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Well I dropped off the boat today for the repower. After talking to all the dealers and looking at price,warranty,dealer reputation/experience etc., I went with the 300 i-con e-tech. I got a free complete rigging kit inluding all wiring,control,oil tank,guages and stainless prop. Also got the 5 year warranty thrown in.
Was wondering what prop to get. They offer SSP,VIPER,CYCLONE,RAKER and REBEL. The dealer up here (Canada) has no experience with this type of boat. What model would be best and would somebody know what pitch would work best ?
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Propping will be trial and error - get the dealer to let you try a few props. I would think a 13 inch diameter 4 blade 19 or 21 pitch would be about right, but you never know until you try.
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level, congrats on the new power....always fun to get new muscle :thumright: