Classic AquaSport
Aquasport Mechanicals - things that need a wrench, screwdriver or multimeter => Plumbing => Topic started by: gran398 on January 25, 2012, 10:15:17 PM
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Guys was going to call Bob this evening regarding his thoughts on plumbing the livewell/washdown system.
But figured we all may as well share in the discussion, so..
A single clamshell pickup will feed the livewell pump and washdown pump(THANKS Pete)
Bronze clamshell with thru-hull, bronze seacock with stainless handle (all 3/4) then...
Builder advises to mount a new style Rule livewell pump, direct male threads, onto the seacock. States that these new pumps have one inlet, two outlets...that is, one outlet to the livewell, one to feed the washdown pump. Washdown pump to mount on the belowdecks ledge (pictured soon) behind the aft tank bulkhead.
Here's our issue/thinking. With the seacock in open position...when running...the livewell will fill, and ALL of the lines will in effect become pressurized.
What is the most effective way to isolate the two systems...individual PVC gatevalves?
The thru-hull seacock is quickly accessed through the stern hatch and easily turned "OFF" for safety. The livewell pump could be be mounted on the same bilge ledge beside the washdown pump....fed by reinforced hose from the top of the seacock.
Guess what am getting at....what is the best way to isolate the systems behind the seacock? Most usage will be spent eating chicken. Livewell may be used once a month.....yet need a washdown to deal with the crumbles/skin bits/grease.
Thanks SB :thumright:
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Scott, your builder is correct in all mentioned. Bronze scoop-type pick-up, shut-off valve on top of that, dual-port livewell on top of that...but here's where he is incorrect. The lower port on a dual-port pump is simply a feed for a second pump. The livewell pump itself does not come into play. The lower port needs to feed a second washdown pump.
You can, however, use a pretty hefty pump (something like a Shur-Flo 1100 Bait Sentry) and tee off the discharge, one side feeding the washdown, the other side feeding the livewell, then simply in stall a livewell spigot that has a shut-off valve on it, like this one from T-H...
(http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh301/seabob4/Proline%20website%20pics/Hardware/TH.jpg)
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What you have stated is what we were thinking. But you've offered great alternative choices. Thanks!
Best idea, which is what we were looking for, was an above-deck shutoff...and even better...within the livewell itself.
Also good advice on the lower feed off the livewell pump. Completely independent of the pump above...an unencumbered feed. Go that route...no need for the "tee" after the seacock. And let's face it...water flow is funny. Less twists/turns/constrictions the better. Particularly with high-flow needs.
Another good thing on the dual outlet off the livewell pump: livewell pumps are notorious for priming issues. Even placed directly on the bilge bottom. A self-priming washdown pump, inline behind the livewell pump...good news.
Most washdown pumps will self-prime, completely dry, to a 12 foot head. Which means everything in-line (read livewell pump) is also flooded/primed.
Thanks Bob...now have a plan :thumright:
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Dual port Shur-flo 800 LW pump feeding a Shur-flo Pro Blaster 3.5 washdown pump...keeps the costs down...
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We ran re plumbed two livewells on my dads boat last summer like that, works well
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Or run two pickups...
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Or run two pickups...
While that would certainly work, the idea behind the dual port is to eliminate the need for a second "hull penetration", as ABYC likes to call them. And one less hole in the bottom of the boat? Not a bad idea...
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Dual port Shur-flo 800 LW pump feeding a Shur-flo Pro Blaster 3.5 washdown pump...keeps the costs down...
Or this route.
http://www.starmarinedepot.com/Shurflo+ ... +Pump.html (http://www.starmarinedepot.com/Shurflo+Pro+Baitmaster+Washdown+Pump.html)
Works my live well fine but you do lose the "fire hose mentality" of a dedicated wash down pump. Still, it provides plenty of pressure for washing blood, guts and scales (or chicken bones).
Have no idea how long it will last but it fits the bill perfectly on a boat used like mine. I can't understand why there aren't more of this type on the market (then again maybe there are :scratch: )
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CB,
We used that exact same pump at PL on boats 23 and under, teeing off just as your boat is set-up. But keeping the livewell areator head shut off should give you the full effect at the washdown spigot...
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Scotty, don't forget a strainer after that seacock. With all that chicken that's going to be consumed, you're going to need top performance out of that washdown pump buddy. :thumleft:
http://www.sherwoodpumps.com/en-us/Prod ... Strainers/ (http://www.sherwoodpumps.com/en-us/Products/Raw+Water+Strainers/)
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You can always build a seachest if you have the room. Pumps run cooler, no priming issues, you can use standard bilge pumps.... almost all of the big boat builders use them. They seem like the way to go if you have the room.
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You can always build a seachest if you have the room. Pumps run cooler, no priming issues, you can use standard bilge pumps.... almost all of the big boat builders use them. They seem like the way to go if you have the room.
Slippery, I don't think I've ever seen a seachest in any boat smaller than a 50... :shock:
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Scotty, don't forget a strainer after that seacock. With all that chicken that's going to be consumed, you're going to need top performance out of that washdown pump buddy. :thumleft:
http://www.sherwoodpumps.com/en-us/Prod ... Strainers/ (http://www.sherwoodpumps.com/en-us/Products/Raw+Water+Strainers/)
Hey good thinking.
Maybe we should install twin macerators behind the scuppers :mrgreen:
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Slippery, I don't think I've ever seen a seachest in any boat smaller than a 50... :shock:
I don't think I've ever seen a seachest. Pls explain.
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Slippery, I don't think I've ever seen a seachest in any boat smaller than a 50... :shock:
I don't think I've ever seen a seachest. Pls explain.
A seachest, simply explained, is a fairly large hole in the bottom of the boat that fills a box (or "chest"). All the pumps live in this box, hence the use of bilge pumps as they are designed to be submerged and be happy. Protruding from the sides of the box are all the t/hulls for the hoses of the various features you are feeding, be it a livewell, a washdown, a raw water sink, whatever. Actually, I think either YF or SeaHunter (one of those big buck boys) is doing them on like 36s and 38s...
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CB, keeping the livewell areator head shut off should give you the full effect at the washdown spigot...
Indeed it does Bob. :idea:
I have a PVC ball valve located at the live well intake and a hose bib located under the port gunnel at the stern (pics later).
When running the well, the ball valve is open (duh) and the bib closed. To use the wash down, I close the ball and open the bib allowing the full pressure of the washdown section of the pump to be realized. Reverse when done cleaning. Rather easy since my well is currently on the deck. The bib allows me to relieve the pressure on my coiled hose, thus (hopefully) extending its useful life.
Relatively cost conscience and has been a very useful device. Hope it lasts awhile.
PS..... helping hold down costs was easier due to a fellow Member.
Thanks Jessie. :salut:
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Slippery, I don't think I've ever seen a seachest in any boat smaller than a 50... :shock:
I don't think I've ever seen a seachest. Pls explain.
A seachest, simply explained, is a fairly large hole in the bottom of the boat that fills a box (or "chest"). All the pumps live in this box, hence the use of bilge pumps as they are designed to be submerged and be happy. Protruding from the sides of the box are all the t/hulls for the hoses of the various features you are feeding, be it a livewell, a washdown, a raw water sink, whatever. Actually, I think either YF or SeaHunter (one of those big buck boys) is doing them on like 36s and 38s...
The fishing boats using them don't have a hole in the hull like a large yacht would, they use a through hull with a seacock that feeds the box. The pumps go in the box from there, it can really be any size, small or large. More and more smaller boats are using them, contender, seavee, invincible, yellowfin, etc. Would be interesting to see a small box with two pumps in our size boat. Would definately be custom.
(http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu353/benpimpin1/seachest3.jpg)
(http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu353/benpimpin1/SEAchest1.jpg)
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Slippery, you went and found pics. I was too lazy...
Don't confuse this with another device that reduces holes in the bottom of a boat, an intake manifold, where one fairly large intake feeds several smaller outflows. A prime mover that uses a lot of water can create suction and air locks in the lesser systems...
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Gran
10-4 on the strainer before the pump for the livewell, Its really needed and mount it so its easy to get to. I ran the magnetic drive shurflow pumps for years and am not impressed, they are loud and don't seem to throw as much water as a regular pump . Now I run tsunami pumps (800gph), they are not the best either but are cheap and easy to switch out. I have also ran the rule tournament livewell pumps, on everyone the impeller has rusted off in less than 6 months. No matter what pump you choose it will burn out. I think the cartridge style pump is the way to go as they are the easiest to switch out. Simply carry a spare if you run just one livewell pump.
I have 3 thru hulls in my boat with one for the washdown ( 5.5gpm) and two completely seperate livewell pump systems feeding one 43gal well. For the wash down go with 5gpm min if you want it to have any kind of pressure or at least spray harder than you can pee.
I know you don't plan on doing the kind of livebait fishing I do but I don't see any disadvantages for having 2 thru hull fittings keeping the washdown and livewell seperate only the cost of the parts.
Capt Matt
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(http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu353/benpimpin1/SEAchest1.jpg)
Wow, that's pretty bad a$$...
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Wow, that's pretty bad a$$...
You get what you pay for...YF, I believe...
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Gran
10-4 on the strainer before the pump for the livewell, Its really needed and mount it so its easy to get to. I ran the magnetic drive shurflow pumps for years and am not impressed, they are loud and don't seem to throw as much water as a regular pump . Now I run tsunami pumps (800gph), they are not the best either but are cheap and easy to switch out. I have also ran the rule tournament livewell pumps, on everyone the impeller has rusted off in less than 6 months. No matter what pump you choose it will burn out. I think the cartridge style pump is the way to go as they are the easiest to switch out. Simply carry a spare if you run just one livewell pump.
I have 3 thru hulls in my boat with one for the washdown ( 5.5gpm) and two completely seperate livewell pump systems feeding one 43gal well. For the wash down go with 5gpm min if you want it to have any kind of pressure or at least spray harder than you can pee.
I know you don't plan on doing the kind of livebait fishing I do but I don't see any disadvantages for having 2 thru hull fittings keeping the washdown and livewell seperate only the cost of the parts.
Capt Matt
Matt, much appreciated. To the extent I won't use the livewell much....maybe 6 times a year...gonna keep it simple and run the two in-line.
I like the idea of separate feeds/separate pumps for your daily use...smart.
On my app, the cartridge livewell 800 with two outlets should do a good job for my needs. Like the self-primer behind the livewell pump....should minimize air locks.
CB...will go with you and SB's thinking....on-off at the livewell. Thanks guys :thumright:
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Or run two pickups...
While that would certainly work, the idea behind the dual port is to eliminate the need for a second "hull penetration", as ABYC likes to call them. And one less hole in the bottom of the boat? Not a bad idea...
i removed my old mushroom head t-hull for the washdown and installed this setup, plumbed the washdown into the port on the pump, didnt have to drill any holes. other nice part is the open through hull would easily clog the strainer with grass within 30 minutes on the flats. so far with the new set up, 3 trips out, nothing in the strainer yet...
(http://www.fordtruckclub.net/forum/photopost/files/2/2/4/img_20110829_143855.jpg)
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Sweet little set-up Aaron! Now once you installed, how much fun was it to get everything tightened, yet the ports, the alignment, the shut-off handle where you wanted it?
I remember this one I did on the Doc's 22-2...
(http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh301/seabob4/22-2Rewire/DrMikes22-2065.jpg)
To get the handle to swing, clearing the bilge pump (not going anywhere), clearing the transom (not going anywhere), getting the elbow, the shut-off valve, the pump ports to line up? Jerzus Christ!!!
But it came out OK...
(http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh301/seabob4/22-2Rewire/DrMikes22-2064.jpg)
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got everything lined up pretty good and works great so far, the strainer is in an easy spot to get off, and the valve handle is easy to open and close...
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VERY slick Aaron!
We don't have grass up here...but since you guys think should run a strainer...as long as it doesn't kill the flow...am all about it.
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VERY slick Aaron!
We don't have grass up here...but since you guys think should run a strainer...as long as it doesn't kill the flow...am all about it.
Install a strainer Scott. I just may put one in the Doc's 22-2, but he hasn't said anything yet, and that was almost 2 years ago....
But Aaron fishes REAL skinny!!
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VERY slick Aaron!
We don't have grass up here...but since you guys think should run a strainer...as long as it doesn't kill the flow...am all about it.
Install a strainer Scott. I just may put one in the Doc's 22-2, but he hasn't said anything yet, and that was almost 2 years ago....
But Aaron fishes REAL skinny!!
one eye on the water, the other on the tide table even surprised my dad on Christmas on how skinny she'll float in
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Relatively cost conscience and has been a very useful device. Hope it lasts awhile.
PS..... helping hold down costs was easier due to a fellow Member.
Thanks Jessie. :salut:
No Problem! Happy to hear you got good use out of it. I should be running into more goodies soon... I'll keep you in mind. :salut:
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Gran
You doing a spray head feed in your livewell or a directional feed.?
So many choices
Capt Matt
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I'll keep you in mind. :salut:
Did someone say Karma? :thumright:
PS... PM me about this Google + thing. First glance it appears I'm too old or are you just trying to phish my (-) balance bank account. :wink:
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Gran
You doing a spray head feed in your livewell or a directional feed.?
So many choices
Capt Matt
Matt, some plumbing came with the well, but haven't looked at it yet to be honest. Most likely directional since will be KM fishing, using pogies.
Not big on having internal obstructions in the well...That's where those oval Kodiaks really shine. But wouldn't want to use a Kodiac for a seat either.
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Plan on putting the kodiac under a leaning post or just having it so its removable with a simple drain over the transom. If you hard plumb it you will need to hide the plumbing under the deck and cut a drain. Rigging it so its removable is probably the way to go if you only fish 6 times a year.
Capt Matt
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The Kodiak's are great...
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Rigging M..Where can you find that livewell spigot with the shut off valve?
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Rigging M..Where can you find that livewell spigot with the shut off valve?
Google is your friend...http://www.cabelas.com/product/Boating/ ... t104434380 (http://www.cabelas.com/product/Boating/Livewells-Bilge-Pumps-Hatches/Livewells-Aerators%7C/pc/104794380/c/104743980/sc/104434380/T-H-Marine-Aerator-Spray-Head-Wash-Down-Combo/700704.uts?destination=%2Fcatalog%2Fbrowse%2Fboating-livewells-bilge-pumps-hatches-livewells-aerators%2Ft-h-marine%2F_%2FN-1100640+1000004835%2FNe-1000004835&WTz_l=SEO%3Bcat104434380)
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Scott,
I will post another pic of what I am talking about later, but drawing from the picture that Aaron posted you will get the idea of what I am talking about. In order to mitigate airlock in the pump, we run the 90 degree bronze elbow directly off the clamshell pickup threads. From the bronze elbow, run the 3/4 brass threaded pipe to the ball valve. From the ball valve thread another 3/4 brass pipe nipple to the strainer and then to the pump. This reduces the vertical pull from the clamshell by several inches and eliminates problems with airlock for us. To reiterate, clamshell to 90 degree elbow to 3/4 nipple to ballvalve to nipple to strainer to pump.
Also, be sure to support the bottom of the pump when your run in this configuration in case something drops on it or someone steps on it. We use a piece of 3/4 inch starboard about 3 inches wide and use a large hole saw that matches the contour of whatever pump you are using. Cut one end of the starboard to match the contour of the pump and cut the other end of the starboard to match the 12 degree contour of the bilge snugly. Use a small dab of 5200 to keep from rattling.
If you want, I will send you a pair of the adjustable Mayfair fills that we use if you want to go that route.
Or run two pickups...
While that would certainly work, the idea behind the dual port is to eliminate the need for a second "hull penetration", as ABYC likes to call them. And one less hole in the bottom of the boat? Not a bad idea...
i removed my old mushroom head t-hull for the washdown and installed this setup, plumbed the washdown into the port on the pump, didnt have to drill any holes. other nice part is the open through hull would easily clog the strainer with grass within 30 minutes on the flats. so far with the new set up, 3 trips out, nothing in the strainer yet...
(http://www.fordtruckclub.net/forum/photopost/files/2/2/4/img_20110829_143855.jpg)
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I clean my strainers about every 5-7 trips . When I notice the livewell flow has slowed down its time to check them out. Amazes me how much grass that strainer can hold and still pump water thru it to my well. If I had it to do over I would have built a custom Seachest for all my pumps
Capt Matt