Classic AquaSport
Aquasport Mechanicals - things that need a wrench, screwdriver or multimeter => Controls, Steering, and Trim Tabs => Topic started by: BTF112989 on December 15, 2011, 10:59:22 PM
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Hey everybody,
I am almost done rigging up my new-to-me 1974 22-2 Aquasport. All I have left is to run the main engine wire harness, the steering cable, the battery cable, and the oil line from my Yamaha up into the console. My rigging tube is jam-packed full and I cannot fit anymore wiring through without it getting stuck 3/4 of the way to the console.
Can I run the remaining wires, cables, etc along the bottom of the hull, outside the stringer without running into any other bulkheads or obstacles? Is this unsafe or not recommended? I just can't see any other way of finishing my rigging, since my tube is filled up.
Or if yall have any helpful hints to make more room in the rigging tube, that would be helpful too. I think its just the way all of the wires are laying that is causing the impassible backup.
I've been using a plumbing snake to work my way to the back of the boat, tying the desired wire that I want to run to the end of the snake, then pull it up through into the console. This has worked very well, but now the tube is getting very full...
Thanks,
Ben
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Ben,
What diameter is the rigging tube? Most likely 3". Saying your attempts get hung up about 3/4 of the way to the console, that should be right at where the tube takes a 45 heading over to the console. Have you tried pulling from the console aft?
And my favorite snake is an old universal control cable...
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Are you using lube? Not a cute joke, lube is imperative when the tube is nearing capacity.
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Well, I guess it is more of a rigging channel instead of a tube. I would say its probably 4" x 3". The channel seems to go straight back, then takes a 22.5 degree or so turn towards the notch in the stringer that leads into the console. The wires are still getting stuck in the straight section about 2 feet short of the opening. Most of my cables have to be pulled forward because they are connected at the engine side already or the plug is larger on the engine side. The oil line is one exception. I will try to pull the oil line from the console aft tomorrow to see if that works.
What type of lube are we talking about? That may just be the ticket!
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Does you channel have a lid that is secured to the cockpit sole? I've run into this on Alex Buck's 200, the cables/wiring/whatever get hung up in between the lid and the shelf it sits on when they try to make the turn...
I removed the lid... :thumleft: :thumleft:
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BTF,
SB4 is a professional rigger, 35 years of experience, previously worked manufacturing Aquasport/Wellcraft. His advice is and always has been golden, not only here, but on other boating forums of which he is a valued and respected member.
I mention the lube in order to fit in a last run or two of cable. You want a nice thick grease that will stick well to your cable. The heavy blue bearing grease in the tube has worked well in the past.
You may also try to "bundle" the existing wires in the chase with smooth electrical tape (not ty-wraps). This should nearly double the run capacity. As a last resort, run a secondary tube. Do not leave any engine wiring/cable etc. exposed to the bilge.
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Its the original channel type, but when the floors were redone in the boat, the lid was glassed over. So, I cannot take the lid off.
It has the same orientation as boats with the channel with the lid secured to the cockpit console. However, on mine there is no way to access the rigging tube due to the new floors.
I think DerekAquasport built new decks out of wood, glassed both sides, then screwed the old rigging channel onto the underside of the deck when he rebuilt the boat. The only access points for me are at the wire entrance and exit of the tube.
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I guess I could possibly cover the plug end I'm trying to pull through with duct tape. Shape the duct tape into a pointed cone shape. Then put grease on the pointed duct tape end. Maybe that will do the trick! Kind of like shooting a greased arrowhead through there.
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There you go, that's the idea. Know you'll be happy to get that last bit through....but always on the last snake pull, if possible...drag a long length of parachute cord and leave it in the chase for a pull in the future.
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Instead of duct tape, use electrical tape. As far as lube, grease will work but will be messy and there will be cleanup involved. There is a product that is made just for this application that will be much easier to clean up. I can't recall what it's called, hopeful SB4 will chime in. Bob, what do you use for Lube?
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Instead of duct tape, use electrical tape. As far as lube, grease will work but will be messy and there will be cleanup involved. There is a product that is made just for this application that will be much easier to clean up. I can't recall what it's called, hopeful SB4 will chime in. Bob, what do you use for Lube?
Dawn dishwashing liquid, is what I use... works great, cleans your hands... :thumright:
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Instead of duct tape, use electrical tape. As far as lube, grease will work but will be messy and there will be cleanup involved. There is a product that is made just for this application that will be much easier to clean up. I can't recall what it's called, hopeful SB4 will chime in. Bob, what do you use for Lube?
Dawn dishwashing liquid, is what I use... works great, cleans your hands... :thumright:
I use Dawn as well works great. Try having someone help you push/pull through the jamb on the the other end. Also try re routing your snake. A lot of times the snake will go between two control cables or other wiring and not allow your harness to pass between the two. Also make that bullet head like you said with electrical tape and coated with Dawn. BE PATIENT! Its easy to get frustrated and yank and you wind up with broken wires and damage. I always run the big stuff first. Engine Harness, fuel line, battery cables etc. Then pull the control cables and other wiring. Basically as the amount of room in the trough diminshes; you want to pulling smaller diameter items last.
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Fitz is right, big stuff first....i.e. the steering cable.
I know what your thinking, "Dam, I hope I don't have to un-rig and start over"
As was stated above, patience.
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The guys at Proline used to use this stuff, you can get it at HD...
(http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh301/seabob4/Proline%20website%20pics/Hardware/unnamed.jpg)
As has been said, big stuff first. Steering cable first (if you have cable steering), then the main accessory harness (the boat's harness), then engine harnessing, then batt cables (if the batts are in the console), and finally the control cables. Fortunately for me when I did Alex's boat, I could remove that cover, as he had a forward livewell, which necessatated a 3/4" fillhose and an 1 1/2" drain hose through that same channel. THAT really jammed things up!! :shock:
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While rigging mine I had everything ran except the wiring harness, when I took it to the marina to rig the motor they had to take everything out of one rigging tube to run the motor harness. The plug and play connections for the new mercury wiring harness are now huge and impossible to run with anything else in the rigging tube. Even with 2 rigging tubes with 45 degree sweeps it was a pain in the butt. Like Gran said leave a extra pull in there just in case you need to add anything later
I feel your pain
Capt Matt
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While rigging mine I had everything ran except the wiring harness, when I took it to the marina to rig the motor they had to take everything out of one rigging tube to run the motor harness. The plug and play connections for the new mercury wiring harness are now huge and impossible to run with anything else in the rigging tube. Even with 2 rigging tubes with 45 degree sweeps it was a pain in the butt. Like Gran said leave a extra pull in there just in case you need to add anything later
I feel your pain
Capt Matt
Gotta love those big a$$ Canon plugs on Merc stuff... :x :x
Try doing triple Vrods!!!
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Thanks alot guys! Fedex just dropped the steering cable off right now. I will let you know if the dawn, electrical tape, and bullet shaped ends will work or not by this afternoon!
To extend my battery cables, would yall recommend buying new yamaha ones that are one single line, or could I go to lowe's
& buy some heavy gauge wiring, then bolt it to the existing yamaha battery cables? Kind of like a battery cable extension cord?
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Yep, good luck. Will the original engine batt cables reach the console? If so, you could mount a big lug block and run zero guage marine grade to your batts, saving some$$.
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Thanks alot guys! Fedex just dropped the steering cable off right now. I will let you know if the dawn, electrical tape, and bullet shaped ends will work or not by this afternoon!
To extend my battery cables, would yall recommend buying new yamaha ones that are one single line, or could I go to lowe's
& buy some heavy gauge wiring, then bolt it to the existing yamaha battery cables? Kind of like a battery cable extension cord?
Ben,
First, DO NOT buy and wiring from Lowes, HD, or any other home store! You need marine grade tinned cable. I'm buying my cable from Greg's Marine Wire, just bought some 2GA from them, about $2.65/ft. Now, since your batt is in the console, you need to step up from 4GA to 2GA, all the way to the motor. No running 2GA to a power post aft, then use the existing 4GA that Yam supplies. I just did this exact same thing on a customers Cape Horn, twin 200 HPDIs, moved the batts to the console, so de-rigged the motors (installed new rigging hoses and grommets as well), then ran 2GA all the way back.
That's just the proper way to do things...
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Yamaha 200 HPDI with new rigging hose, grommet, and proper 2GA batt cables...
(http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh301/seabob4/Cape%20Horn%2023/CapeHorn23040.jpg)
What the old chit looked like...
(http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh301/seabob4/Cape%20Horn%2023/RobOlsenRanger002.jpg)
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I try to get the motors as identical as I can, gives a look of professionalism, as well as makes it easy for anyone working on them in the future to find all the plugs...
(http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh301/seabob4/Cape%20Horn%2023/CapeHorn23041.jpg)
(http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh301/seabob4/Cape%20Horn%2023/CapeHorn23042.jpg)
If one is thinking about relocating the batteries to the helm, and thus having to run new, larger gauge cable, this tool is invaluable...
(http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh301/seabob4/Cape%20Horn%2023/CapeHorn23043.jpg)
Harbor Freight sells them, hydraulic, as you can see by the dies out of their slot, crimps up to 00GA, I've even crimped heavy wall 2/0GA fabbing a cut down die to get the lug in the jaws. You can't rent a heavy duty crimper anywhere (not Autozone or Advance Auto Parts), and to buy one from, say Grainger or an electrical supply house will run you north of $250. Got mine on sale for $45 a couple years ago, just saw it on sale again for $54. Still a steal, mine has paid for itself a 100 times over...
BTW, see those rigging ports going into the lower pan? For anyone who has ever rigged a larger Yam and dealt with those piece of crap grommets with the little slots for all the various rigging, these are the way to go. Completely hollow center, hard plastic fits right in the groove of the lower pan, it screws right on to the rigging hose (no clamps), and...IT'S MADE IN THE USA!!! Got those 2 from Andy at SIM Yamaha...$20/per...
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Those pole holders are doing a number on the covers.
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Good eye bro...foam pipe insulation may keep it from getting worse.
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If one is thinking about relocating the batteries to the helm, and thus having to run new, larger gauge cable, this tool is invaluable...
(http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh301/seabob4/Cape%20Horn%2023/CapeHorn23043.jpg)
Harbor Freight sells them, hydraulic, as you can see by the dies out of their slot, crimps up to 00GA, I've even crimped heavy wall 2/0GA fabbing a cut down die to get the lug in the jaws. You can't rent a heavy duty crimper anywhere (not Autozone or Advance Auto Parts), and to buy one from, say Grainger or an electrical supply house will run you north of $250. Got mine on sale for $45 a couple years ago, just saw it on sale again for $54. Still a steal, mine has paid for itself a 100 times over...
Nice work Bob.
I just bought one of those crimpers at HF an hour ago and it was indeed $54.
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I just bought one of those crimpers at HF an hour ago and it was indeed $54.
Rick, we all know HF sells a lotta cheap crap, if it fails, chuck it, buy a new one. But this crimper? I can't see it ever failing. When I've done crimps in front of my customers, they're like Holy chit!! :shock: :shock:
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That's good - was wondering how it would work. Now I have to find a #4 end that is 3/8" locally.
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That's good - was wondering how it would work. Now I have to find a #4 end that is 3/8" locally.
Autozone, the isle before the batts where the batt cables are...but they are straight copper, not tinned. Just order tinned from genuinedealz, $1.13 a piece, no shipping, and you'll get them in 3 days...
OOPS, since I am known there, and am promoting their products... :? :?
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I guess I could spray it with the red stuff to protect it instead of waiting 3 days?
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Hey, I have a real ugly wiring pic for you from my 230. I'll post it in the other thread - it' UGLYYYYY.
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SB, you made a suggestion. Not a promotion.
Must give credit, since we're discussing this, to Lewis.
Lew has been given responsibility to deal with potential vendors/advertisers here at the clubhouse.
Difficult assignment. There occurs on many dedicated websites subtle advertising/marketing which may not be noticeable to the membership. Gray area. And why we have rules in place, to protect the club from invasion. As mentioned to Rick, I'm now seeing the "Big Picture".
Let's pick this back up on "Chum" after Christmas.
Thanks. And now... back to "Lubes for Chase Tubes"
:santa:
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Lowes sells a wax based wire pulling lube....
http://www.lowes.com/pd_12290-12704-31- ... facetInfo= (http://www.lowes.com/pd_12290-12704-31-358-6_0__?productId=3178691&Ntt=wire+pulling+lube&pl=1¤tURL=%2Fpl__0__s%3FNtt%3Dwire%2Bpulling%2Blube&facetInfo=)
:salut:
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On my 83 hull I do not have a rigging tube. I have a rigging hole at the starboard rear corner of the inside of the console. Just forward of the hole there is a bulkhead but going aft it is completely open down the sides of the stringer. I have transom boxes in the corners, I don't think you do. My access for pulling wires through is a pieplate in the side of the starboard box.
(http://i669.photobucket.com/albums/vv60/Lewis55/new%20steering/birthdayducksandboat014.jpg)
This is the rigging hole. I think it started out round, but over the years as people added electronics it has been wallowed out so everything fits.
(http://i669.photobucket.com/albums/vv60/Lewis55/Slipaway%20---1984%20Aquasport%20222/slipaway222214.jpg)
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Well, duct tape, twine, my plumbing snake, and some dawn dishwashing soap did most of the trick! I was able to get the main wire harness all the way through the rigging tube pretty easily, once I found an easy path for it to travel. It took a couple of attempts.
My steering cable was so heavy & stiff that it just pushed the other wires out of the way as it made its way. I have the steering all hooked up now.
The only thing left to do in the rigging is running the oil line, then extending the battery cables and running them down the rigging tube. Since the tube is getting pretty full, I'm finding it pretty difficult to find a path for the snake to take that will let it go all the way through. Thats where I am at now. Hopefully I can squeeze the oil line through & the battery cables will be heavy enough to push the other cables out of the way.
Does anyone know of any local chain stores I could go to that would sell tinned, marine 2 gauge wire? I was thinking west marine, but I need to check. I don't have too many marine supply stores around me in middle Tennessee. I was hoping to extend the battery cables tomorrow if I can find some wire locally.
I am so close to getting this boat in the water. I want to have its maiden voyage this week if possible.
Thanks for all of yalls help with this!
-Ben
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Great job Ben, glad the boys recommended the Dawn. Beats the heck out of that blue grease that I once used.
Re. the marine-grade 2 guage Bob advised on the run forward...he'll post a link, hang tight. He was under the weather today.
Great to get 'er done...but quality wire is important over the long haul, even if it has to be ordered in.
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Okay, I looked up on the west marine website that they have 2 ga Ancor marine, tinned battery cable wire in stock. If I'm reading seabob's instructions correctly, I need to run one solid 2 ga line straight through from the yamaha to the battery in the console?
I SHOULDN'T run my existing 4 ga yamaha supplied line, then bolt a 2 ga section to it to reach the battery.
Will this wire be okay:
http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=35074&catalogId=10001&langId=-1&storeId=11151&storeNum=50523&subdeptNum=50560&classNum=50562
With these lugs:
http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=35581&catalogId=10001&langId=-1&storeId=11151&storeNum=50523&subdeptNum=50566&classNum=50568
What size stud do my lugs need to be able to fit? There are multiple options on the website.
I think I will need about 17' of wire to reach from the Yamaha to the battery.
Also, That is a useful tool, but the likelyhood of me using it again after I crip these 4 ends is slim to none. Can anyone think of a place that would rent one to me or a place I could take my supplies to that would crimp the lugs on for me for a nominal fee? I can't really justify the $55 purchase of such a specialty tool if I'm only going to use it once.
Hopefully Seabob can lead me in the right direction with all of this once he starts feeling better.
Sorry for all of these questions, but I have one more. Does anyone run dual batteries with a switch on their aquasport? Would I benefit from dual batteries at all, since I only have one engine & my only accessories are a fishfinder, stereo, interior lighting, and a bilge pump? My dad has dual batteries with a switch & he thinks its the greatest thing in the world. He was suggesting that I wire in a second battery as well.
Thanks everybody!
-Ben
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Ben, all great questions.
Your dad is right. We all run dual batteries with a quality Perko switch. If nothing else, for the safety of you and your crew.
Plan on two 24's under the console with a single engine.
Yep, Bob has advised to run 2 guage marine grade straight through...so that's what you should do. The link he'll post will smoke worst marine's price.
Hang tight...he'll be on this like white on rice when he's back to feeling better.
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You can use a vise, that's what i've done in the past, never a problem, then put some heat shrink over it and your good.
By all means have the second battery, think of it as a safety precaution.
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What size stud do my lugs need to be able to fit? There are multiple options on the website.
-Ben
You'll need 2 AWG (2 ga.) with the appropriate size hole to fit your battery lug. 5/16" is about right but I've seen 3/8" so you'll need to check (measure) your model battery.
This is of course assuming you have threaded bolt terminals as well as the standard posts batteries come with but not the side mount screw in type seen on autos though I'd guess they would work.
Good luck.
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I have the threaded screws on top. I will check to see what size they are in the daylight.
I just went on the greg's marine wire website that Seabob mentioned in his previous post. They are about half the price of worst marine & there is also an option to have them make your cables for you. I will probably just measure what size I need & go this route, since I don't have the correct crimping tool. $109 versus $210 locally is a no brainer. Instant gratification isn't worth $100 to me, so I can wait a few days to have these made & shipped.
I think I'm going to go with 17' 2 ga cables just to be safe. 16' may work, but its too risky.
I'm sure Seabob will cover this, but does anyone have a basic dual battery with a switch diagram or a description?
I may just take my battery out of the console, set it in the back of the boat, and hook it only up to the engine to test everything out on the boat tomorrow & take it for an initial spin. Then once I get the battery cables shipped here, I can put it back in the console. I'm just very anxious to see whether or not my rigging was totally successful.
Thanks for everyone's input! This is such a helpful group of guys here.
-Ben
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Well good morning all! Had a toothache yesterday, went to bed at 5:30 yesterday afternoon...feeling much better now!
Anyway, Ben, you were absolutely correct in getting the uninteruppted run of 2GA from the switch aft to the motor. The weak link, electrically, would have been the 4GA from any post at the transom out to the motor. The reason for stepping up in cable size is voltage drop due to the increased run (and naturally, the increased resistance). Had you gone with the 4GA, the resistence would have increased even more, and your voltage drop increased accordingly. Besides, you save a bunch going with Greg's, I NEVER buy anything electrical from WM...
Here is how a dual battery switch (OFF/1/BOTH/2) is wired...
(http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh301/seabob4/Proline%20website%20pics/Wiring%20Diagrams/BattSwitchoffand1.jpg)
(http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh301/seabob4/Proline%20website%20pics/Wiring%20Diagrams/BattSwitch2andAll.jpg)
Hope this helps...
BTW, Ben, Greg's gets their orders out pretty quick. You should receive your cables maybe by Tuesday. As far as batt switches, I've had 2 Perkos fail on me due to age (big time corrosion buildup on the internal contacts). I use Blue Seas, Guest and Cole-Hersee also make excellent switches. But seeing as you are in Tenn., and don't see the corrosive effects like we do down here on the gulf coast, you should be alright with a Perko...
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I have an extra Perko switch I'll be happy to send you for the shipping costs.
I'm running my antique Cole Hersee (carryover from my CCP) in my WAC.
It's in good condition and will work fine in your application.
PM me if you like.
(http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff108/r-berlin/Perkoswitch1.jpg)
(http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff108/r-berlin/Perkoswitch2.jpg)
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Hard to beat that deal :salut:
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:thumright: Capt Bob.
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:thumright: Capt Bob.
Absolutely! Very nice CB :rendeer:
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You don't want to see the backside of the Perko dual batt switch I just replaced with a Blue Seas... :x :x
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You don't want to see the backside of the Perko dual batt switch I just replaced with a Blue Seas... :x :x
Was there a wasp nest :scratch:
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You don't want to see the backside of the Perko dual batt switch I just replaced with a Blue Seas... :x :x
Was there a wasp nest :scratch:
Yes, 1, but they don't bother me. It was the green terminals and the corrosion on the inside that bothered me...
I've had 2 batt switches fail on me in my life...Perkos...
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Well you know what they say......
You get what you pay for in life.
Model #8501
http://www.perko.com/catalog/category/b ... oduct/148/ (http://www.perko.com/catalog/category/battery_switches/product/148/)
Place in dry (relatively speaking) setting, assemble and coat terminals with corrosion reducing substance. Inspect when the mood moves ya. End of the day, it's more proper installation and routine maintenance that will keep it clean. Along the same lines as one's terminals on the battery but.....
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Well you know what they say......
You get what you pay for in life.
Model #8501
http://www.perko.com/catalog/category/b ... oduct/148/ (http://www.perko.com/catalog/category/battery_switches/product/148/)
Place in dry (relatively speaking) setting, assemble and coat terminals with corrosion reducing substance. Inspect when the mood moves ya. End of the day, it's more proper installation and routine maintenance that will keep it clean. Along the same lines as one's terminals on the battery but.....
In my business, I see a lot of battery switches that are t/bolted, due to the location that they are installed in. Coring would be nice, as then the switches could be screwed in place. Accessing the back side (the studs) would be relatively easy. But ask any owner of a t/bolted batt switch how often he unbolts it to drop it down and inspect the studs...never! And for that matter, when has anybody here dropped their batt switch to inspect the studs on the backside? As far as internal contacts, at least with Blue Seas, you can take the switches apart. Perko? You have to destroy them to get to the internals...
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As far as internal contacts, at least with Blue Seas, you can take the switches apart. Perko? You have to destroy them to get to the internals...
That's an excellent point.
The C-H has that option and I've cleaned mine twice (since 96). Again, get what you pay for.
The second time I opened the C-H was when I moved it from the CCP to the WAC. I was pleasantly surprised that it was as clean as it was internally. Out of sight, out of mind but you've seen enough battery connections to know that even when in sight, they often still remain out of mind. 8)
Until the motor no start no more. :scratch:
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Well everybody,
I was able to pull the oil line through my rigging tube(took about 1.5 hours to get my snake all the way down the rigging tube with an unobstructed path) today, as well as install the ignition, readjust my throttle & shift cables for this boat, finish hooking up the fuel lines, and hook up the wires for the tachometer. All I lack now is getting the battery cables ordered & installed. The real challenge will be fitting that last, big set of battery cables in the rigging tube.
Seabob,
I will go with greg's marine wire for the 2 ga, uninterrupted, custom made cables. I see on that picture, that you have one yellow & one black cable. Any reason for the yellow instead of the standard red? Do you happen to know the lug post size needed for the engine side of a Yamaha HPDI(like the ones in your picture)? Or the lug size for a standard battery lug post? The OEM Yamaha battery cables fit my battery lug post fine.
Capt. Bob,
Thank you for the offer on the battery switch! I will gladly take yours as a beginner battery switch setup. It should last me quite some time in Tennessee. If it does happen to poop out on me in a few years, then I can upgrade to a Blue Seas switch.
for my battery to battery connections, what wire would yall suggest? I don't think I need 2 ga for batteries that are sitting side by side.
Where is an ideal mounting spot inside the center console for a battery switch? I don't want to put four screw holes in my console to mount the switch to the side.
I am going to hook up the muffs tomorrow, and crank the boat up in the driveway to check all of the systems. Its better for things to go wrong on the trailer in your own driveway, then for them to go wrong on your maiden voyage in the lake. I'm also going to give the old girl a bath, then to the county clerk's office to get her registered with the state!
Thanks for all of yall's help!
-Ben
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Well everybody,
I was able to pull the oil line through my rigging tube(took about 1.5 hours to get my snake all the way down the rigging tube with an unobstructed path) today, as well as install the ignition, readjust my throttle & shift cables for this boat, finish hooking up the fuel lines, and hook up the wires for the tachometer. All I lack now is getting the battery cables ordered & installed. The real challenge will be fitting that last, big set of battery cables in the rigging tube.
Seabob,
I will go with greg's marine wire for the 2 ga, uninterrupted, custom made cables. I see on that picture, that you have one yellow & one black cable. Any reason for the yellow instead of the standard red? Do you happen to know the lug post size needed for the engine side of a Yamaha HPDI(like the ones in your picture)? Or the lug size for a standard battery lug post? The OEM Yamaha battery cables fit my battery lug post fine.
Capt. Bob,
Thank you for the offer on the battery switch! I will gladly take yours as a beginner battery switch setup. It should last me quite some time in Tennessee. If it does happen to poop out on me in a few years, then I can upgrade to a Blue Seas switch.
for my battery to battery connections, what wire would yall suggest? I don't think I need 2 ga for batteries that are sitting side by side.Where is an ideal mounting spot inside the center console for a battery switch? I don't want to put four screw holes in my console to mount the switch to the side.
I am going to hook up the muffs tomorrow, and crank the boat up in the driveway to check all of the systems. Its better for things to go wrong on the trailer in your own driveway, then for them to go wrong on your maiden voyage in the lake. I'm also going to give the old girl a bath, then to the county clerk's office to get her registered with the state!
Thanks for all of yall's help!
-Ben
Ben
Everything has to be the same gauge wire, think of it as plumbing, you will only get as much current flow as the smallest wire size in your circuit will allow. Wire your parallel connections with #2 as well. If you didn't order those, you can pick them up from West or some other place, already made up probably, because they won't be very long.
Marc
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Ben,
Take a look at the photo again, the battery cables are Red & Yellow.
Red = Hot & Yellow = Ground
I bet you can't wait to splash her, looks like you are very close. Good Luck with the Maiden Voyage.
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Ben,
Each motor has 1 red (12V+) and 1 yellow (12V-) cable. I use yellow for 12VDC- (ground) as it will become the standard per ABYC (probably 2013). Falls in line with European req.'s when a boat has 120VAC power on board, to differentiate between 12VDC ground and 120VAC hot.
Black or yellow is fine. I kinda like yellow, livens up the joint... :lol: :lol:
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Marc,
good plumbing analogy. That makes sense now & it was kind of a stupid question now that I think of it.
I went ahead and ordered all of the cables(engine cables & the cables to setup the dual batteries) from greg's marine wire. It came out to $147 sign, sealed, delivered. I went ahead & calculated what it would have cost me, if I had gone the worst marine route, just for fun. It would have been $295 from them. They wanted $25 for a pre-made 18" 2 ga cable. :shock: Maybe I'm a cheap guy, but I think that is downright crazy. So, thanks a ton seabob for helping me find the wire for half price!
I didn't look at those pictures close enough. It is indeed a yellow negative cable. I went ahead & ordered the yellow. Why not be within regulations for Europe right now & for the ABYC within the future. The real reason I ordered the yellow though was to liven the joint up like seabob said.
Between all of yall with a little extra shoutout to Capt. Bob & SeaBob, I have successfully gotten my boat rigged & wired with dual batteries! Thanks Guys! (I should probably wait until I actually get these big ole battery cables down that rigging tube to say that)
I tested the boat out today on land. pulled the hose out of the garage, hooked the muffs up, and let her rip. She started up great, went in all gears smoothly, etc. However, she didn't shoot any water out of the telltale hole. I read online that this is sometimes normal with the bigger Yamaha engines(muffs don't give enough water pressure as a lake does) & as long as the muffs were shooting water in there I didn't worry too much. However, after about 4 minutes of idling my overheat alarm went off(set to go off at 195 degrees), so I immediately shut it off. The heads didn't feel overly hot or anything. Apparently, this sometimes happens also when these bigger yamahas are on the muffs(according to various iboats & THT threads). I'm just worried I hurt/killed impeller. I hope I didn't. I'm gonna test the boat out on wednesday at the lake, so hopefully the Yamaha will pee normally there. If not, I may be in for a new impeller.
-Ben
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Ben,
This is great news. You're getting a nice job. All of the guys gave great advice.
Re the cooling: Was she at least spitting on the muff? My 130 Yammie V4's peed hard on the muff.
V4 vs. V6....but surprised there was no flow. Should have been instantaneous, IMHO.
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Ben, get one of those plastic 55 gal. drums and cut it in half. Fill with water and try running in that. Running a motor in one of these also gives back pressure to the exhaust and you can tell more about how it idles before you drop it in at the ramp.
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She wasn't even dripping, spitting, etc. Seemed bone dry. Apparently its a problem with the four stroke & HPDI V6 Yamahas. Still has me worried though. The water was shooting sideways out of that hole below the anti-ventilation plate, so that made me feel a little bit better about nothing coming out of the hole. The engine was peeing great less than 3 weeks ago, so I didn't worry too much. That overheat alarm had me slightly worried though.
I may just wait until wednesday(when I plan on taking it out), and back it in at the ramp to see whether it pees in a real lake. Heck, I may have enough time tomorrow to take it to a lake close-by if weather permits.
-Ben
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I tested the boat out today on land. pulled the hose out of the garage, hooked the muffs up, and let her rip. She started up great, went in all gears smoothly, etc. However, she didn't shoot any water out of the telltale hole. I read online that this is sometimes normal with the bigger Yamaha engines(muffs don't give enough water pressure as a lake does) & as long as the muffs were shooting water in there I didn't worry too much. However, after about 4 minutes of idling my overheat alarm went off(set to go off at 195 degrees), so I immediately shut it off. The heads didn't feel overly hot or anything. Apparently, this sometimes happens also when these bigger yamahas are on the muffs(according to various iboats & THT threads). I'm just worried I hurt/killed impeller. I hope I didn't. I'm gonna test the boat out on wednesday at the lake, so hopefully the Yamaha will pee normally there. If not, I may be in for a new impeller.
-Ben
None of this sounds right.
Can't comment on newer "big Yamahas" but on my 200 (91), water comes out when it's running on the muffs.
I believe that if I touched a piece of metal that was 195 degrees, it would feel hot (at least to me anyway). I believe my t-stats open in the 160+/- range. You need to look for water flowing out of the fins just above the cavitation (?) plate
(http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff108/r-berlin/DSC00107-1.jpg)
Also, you may find something lodged in the pee tube. Use a small wire to clear the hole but....
That would not cause it to overheat.
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Ben,
You're OK. HPDIs don't receive enough water pressure from muffs to not only spit out the pee hole, but enough to keep the over heat alarm from going off. Wait until you get her in the water, or do as Lewis suggested.
I've had a few HPDIs lately, they all do the same thing. I would guess a design feature, or failure on Yams part...
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I used my finger thermometer on the heads. An old mechanic taught me that if the engine is within normal operating temps, you can touch the heads momentarily then after a second or two your fingers get too hot to keep touching them. If the heads are overheated, then as soon as you touch them, you have to take your fingers off/you will burn your fingers.
Yeah, hopefully the engine is okay, since I cut it off within 2 seconds of the alarms going off. Seabob, you just made me feel alot better! Hearing a second opinion from a trusted source is very reassuring.
I would say its a design failure on Yamaha's part for this newer shaped "body style" yamaha.
-Ben
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Ben,
Newer Yams are great motors (yeah, I know, the HPDI threads on THT, and the 4S corrosion threads as well), but they have their...quirks. :roll: :roll:
First time I had an HPDI, and she did exactly as you described, I could hold my hand on either head...yeah, it got pretty warm, but not hot. I was like, WTF?
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Yeah, once you get past the no telltale on muffs as well as figuring out how to manage all of the filters, they are great engines. The 10 micron water/fuel separating filter is the best investment I have made on that engine. I spent tons of money & had constant breakdowns due to EXPENSIVE filters failing(probably combined with a 20 year old gas tank with lots of debris in it) in the engine, but once I figured out how to manage the filters everything has been great! They are just quirky. I am about to try & replace the micro filters in the fuel pump in a few weeks. I love the fact that its still a 2-stroke with some modern technologies mixed in to give me better fuel burn numbers. I am not ready to give up that torque, faster acceleration, and 2-stroke smell of my childhood just yet.
Part of me enjoyed firing her up out of the water today in my quiet neighborhood & hearing that loud 2-stroke exhaust. I'm sure my neighbors just loved it as well! :D
My local yamaha mechanic(when I still went to him) said the HPDIs are great engines & can log tons of hours with the best of them!
-Ben
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Ben,
In certain respects, HPDIs kind of remind me of the old Ficht motors. If they were going to die, it would be very early in their lives. But once they made it past, oh, say, the 250 hour mark, they were good to go. The filters aren't that bad, just have to know how to take chit apart to get to them...like the VST filter. Swapping out the filter is the easy part. But even the service manual doesn't say squat in respect to the fact of how to go about getting the tank off without losing all the bolts to get at the filter...
If you want, I can walk you through filter replacement on your motor. That way, you only pay for the parts...
OOPS, just read back through your post. Apparently, you have that part down...
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Don't forget flounderpounder's excellent thread on changing his filters out on his 250HPDI.
http://classicaquasport.com/phpbb3/view ... f=5&t=7793 (http://classicaquasport.com/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=7793)
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Well that shows ya I don't know much about newer Yamahas but......
What I was saying about water coming out through the vents can be seen in this video. Also notice the pisser and that it is running on muffs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbDJhnh3 ... re=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbDJhnh3leA&feature=related)
Overheat alarm is telling you something. If water isn't coming out the vents then the t-stats are closed or....
The impeller ain't impelling. :idea:
Of course, the guy's running without the prop on and I thought that was frowned upon....
Shows you my knowledge base is limited.
PS.... This is the model motor you have, yes/no???
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CB,
I've been running 250s and 300s, can't really speak for 150s..I get fine water flow out the vents by the cav plate, but nothing out the pisser and the O/H alarm goes off after a few minutes.
The Cape Horn I have at the house has twin 200 HPDIs. We'll see how these do...
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The design idea is that they all need to pump water, when hooked to the muff.
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Thanks for that HPDI micro filter link! I was trying to find it. I guess I might as well go ahead and order 10 of them in case I decide to change out the injector filters as well down the road. I will definitely change out the four filter in the HP pump though.
Capt. Bob,
That is my exact engine in the video. I wish mine would shoot water out of its telltale like that one does on the muffs.
Seabob,
I will be curious to see how those 200 HPDIs do on that Cape Horn. I thought my HPDI used to pee on the muffs back in 2005(last time I ran it on muffs), but I can't remember back to 2005 too well. Still hoping my impeller is in one piece!
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If I may interject something here...
The best way to find out if an engine is overheating is to put your hand on the exhaust baffle plate first. That is the large plate between the cylinders on V engines. In most cases the powerhead waterflow comes through the waterjacket behind the exhaust plate first. This fills the block and cylinder heads and warms the water and raises the block temp in anticipation of the thermostats opening at the designed temp. The reason for this waterflow is because the exhaust heats up instantly when the engine lights off. So the cylinder heads will heat up more slowly and hold the temp until the thermostats begin to open and water begins to circulate through them. If the exhaust plate heats up to where you can't hold your hand on it, you have a water pump problem; since it is first in line to receive water from the pump. In some cases the cylinder heads get hot enough that it becomes uncomfortable to touch before the thermostats begin to open and then they will cool down. If your engine has a poppet valve in the waterflow which is designed to regulate water pressure and slow down the waterflow so it will grab more heat, it too can cause an overheat condition but usually at high speed. By no means should the overheat alarm sound off on the flush attachment based on my experience. If the engine pumps water when you try it at the ramp, but not on the flush, replace the waterpump. It has damaged or broken vanes on the impeller tips and can't pump unless fully submerged in water because it has lost it's efficiency. I don't go more than two years on an impeller/thermostats for a couple of reasons; 1) just to inspect the system components and replace since it is inexpensive and 2) is to lubricate the driveshaft to crankshaft spline and recoat my greacase mounting bolts with Perfect Seal (Mercury) thread sealant to prevent stuck bolts. Change the gearoil every 40 hours and grease the propshaft.
Hope this helps!
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Time for a new impeller.
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Time for a new impeller.
Certainly won't hurt, change the oil while your at it, basically follow Fitz's advice.
I'm waiting on new batt trays for the Cape Horn, when I get them located, installed, and the batts cabled, I'll fire up the Yammis and report back with my findings. One caveat though, this boat was just purchased up in Georgia and brought back down here, don't think the owner has used it since he bought it. That being said, I really have no idea as to when the impellers were last changed. So, we shall see...
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Update!
I pulled the 22-2 to the lake today, met two of my friends there who had champagne ready to go, and we put her in the water! I honestly thought my impeller was completely toast before I put it in after my recent muff experience, however I was pleasantly surprised! She fired right off very easily, and starting shooting water out of her telltale hole.
We launched her, then I pulled over to the dock at the ramp. I saw a 2 liter coke bottle floating in the water and just thought it was some piece of trash. WRONG. It was a jug fishing jug with a line & hook connected to it, so when I put the boat in reverse...I heard a thump thump thump near my engine. Shut it off & raised it up to check everything out. Nothing was around my prop, but somehow a hook & a string knocked a chunk of metal about 2" long by 0.5" wide out of the very back part of my skeg closest to the propeller. Not a good start, but we went on. I idled down the lake for awhile, then opened her up a little bit. My test load was one 295lb friend, 190lb me, another 170lb friend, and a full tank of gas. The weather was 52 degrees with a 15-20mph wind making for some light to moderate chop.
My first reaction was how wide & stable the boat was with a very smooth ride for the conditions. That bow takes small chop very well. I did notice she slides a bit while rounding corners(I guess trim tabs could fix this), but it doesn't really bug me. I have a 17 pitch aluminum prop on her, so she popped right up out of the water. I'll have to get used to docking her. With my console set pretty far back from where a normal 22-2 console sits, I felt like I was docking a barge or a container ship, since I had that much boat in front of me. With the test load described above & a pretty beaten up 17 pitch aluminum prop, she hit 5400 rpm WOT & hit 42mph. I thought that was a pretty good baseline for that amount of weight in the boat & for only having a 150 on it.
Overall a very good day & I am thrilled with the results. I only wish it was about 30 degrees warmer outside, so I could have hopped in the water/stayed there longer & made a day of it. But, I will take what I can get. I have been so anxious to get this thing out on the water.
After looking at the stream though, I am going to go ahead and order a water pump kit & I will change it out sometime next week. I want to get it peeing hard again.
I also think I will be in the market for a new stainless propeller in the near future to try & get some more performance out of her. Anyone have any propeller suggestions to get that last 100 rpms out of her at WOT?
Thanks for all the help guys! My battery cables should be here within the next day or two!
-Ben
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Ben, you had a great day on the water (have a feeling that part of the skeg was ready to go anyway! A pop bottle?)!! Come spring, that will be the time to really start messing with her, performance wise. Until then, enjoy any day you can get out on the water between now and then! :salut: :salut:
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May have been a pop bottle. I guess I will never know though.
Oh, I will be having many many days out on the water until then. I am that crazy person each winter breaking the ice around the shoreline at the boat ramp, so I can launch the boat. Its usually just me & the birds out there in the winter.
I like working on boats in the winter time because all the boat dealers, prop shops, etc are begging for my business up here.
I am going out again Friday and Christmas Eve. And December 26th as well. I have to make the most of my time off. Haha.
-Ben
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May have been a pop bottle. I guess I will never know though.
Oh, I will be having many many days out on the water until then. I am that crazy person each winter breaking the ice around the shoreline at the boat ramp, so I can launch the boat. Its usually just me & the birds out there in the winter.
I like working on boats in the winter time because all the boat dealers, prop shops, etc are begging for my business up here.
I am going out again Friday and Christmas Eve. And December 26th as well. I have to make the most of my time off. Haha.
-Ben
Have at it, dress warm, and enjoy!! Some good tunage helps... :thumleft: :thumleft:
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Good morning,
Ben congratulations on the christening. What an exciting day!
Getting back to the rigging tube(s)....haven't had a chance due to the season to ck. my mess in a while, so am riding over there early this morn....this discussion has made me consider some alternatives in terms of more space. We're rigging twins, so it will be two of everything with the exception of the hydraulic lines.
The deck is not in yet....so we're now thinking one six inch, rather than one four inch tube outboard of the starboard stringer. There will be small aft boxes...the starboard side box will be where the rigging comes up and exits to the engines. So if there is room, and there should be...we'll change it to a six inch.
Ben, again, congrats :thumright: :rendeer:
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Scott,
Is there a possibility of running a 4" up both sides, with 2 entrances into the console? I've seen that many a time, works real well, and keeps you from having a really big bundle coming out of 1 rigging boot...
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Absolutely there is.
Went by this morn....we want to run everything to the aft starboard box. We have decided to go with a single thin wall 6" PVC.
There is a big throat built into the stringer (old rigging tray), we have bridged the top with sparloy high density synthetic. Also used as the new stringer cap material.
The pipe will be glassed through the throat, then into the base of the console. At the stern, the box will cover where the pipe comes in through the deck.
Plusses and minuses, but if we go with one tube we can eliminate cutting the port side stringer. And also, to me, everything leaving one side only is cleaner, less underfoot.
Bob, Fitz brings up a good point, so wanted to get your input: Where the rigging exits the side of the box going to the engines...is they're anything more attractive to use other than those collapsible rubber boots?
Thanks!
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Where the rigging exits the side of the box going to the engines...is they're anything more attractive to use other than those collapsible rubber boots?
Thanks!
Yes, Scott, my favorite rigging, The T-H Marine 3" rigging hose and rigging port. Like these on the Cape Horn...
(http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh301/seabob4/Cape%20Horn%2023/CapeHorn23040.jpg)
Problem is, your motors most likely won't accept that large of rigging hose. Hate to say it, but even on the pricier small boats that have smaller motors, the rigging "boot" is what I have seen used...
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Hey thanks Bob.
Is there a chance the 2 inch version would work?
http://www.thmarine.com/product.cfm?PRID=106 (http://www.thmarine.com/product.cfm?PRID=106)
Sure would be clean...thanks!
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A transom cabinet hides it well lol
How about running two rigging tubes against the inside of the stringers? then use the flex tube to hide everything from the deck to the motor.
The twin motor rigging will take some thought to keep it all clean. Does it all need to come out of one side?
Capt matt
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A transom cabinet hides it well lol
How about running two rigging tubes against the inside of the stringers? then use the flex tube to hide everything from the deck to the motor.
The twin motor rigging will take some thought to keep it all clean. Does it all need to come out of one side?
Capt matt
What my thoughts are...
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Hey thanks guys. All of us, including the builder, are on the same page.
Some new news this afternoon. A Seamark came back wrecked. Chris wants to cut-out the chase tube from the wrecked Seamark...basically free. Solid fiberglass. Shape-wise...very similar to a home gutter drain tube. Not circular, rectangular, with rounded corners. Roomy, easy pulling/pushing. To me...solid glass on the chase is deluxe.
Will run through the starboard stringer per the original cut-out. Then outboard down the stringer on the starboard side (exactly per the original chase tray) but under the deck, then up into the aft box.
Then hopefully 2 inch rigging tubes per SB's link to finalize the run to the engines.
SB..will double 2 inch tubes exiting the box work with those 75 Mercs?
Thanks all :rendeer:
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Scott, if you're bound and determined to have both sets of rigging run out of the starboard box, then install the rigging ports vertically, one atop the other, a little separation, the top port going to the port motor, bottom to starboard...
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That was exactly my thinking, one above the other. All from the starboard side. Seems clean to me.
But to the extent that I am bound and determined....and good with that....please explain the benefit of having the port side rigging exiting from a port side box.
Not set in stone yet...and for damn sure respect your thinking...and you know I'll end up calling you anyway.
But, for the benefit of the board...and discussion...and future rigging, maybe well into the future...why would one want the rigging per engine exiting from opposite sides? That is...two tubes, one outboard per each side of the stringers.
Could see it if it were a big boat, going aft to the engines from a big stern bulkhead, straight shot to each engine...but on my beam-challenged waif?
My first thought is that it kills the stern fishing access...downrigger access, anchor pulling etc. from the formerly unencumbered (clear) port side. Not much room back there to start with...open-transom twins.
Not ready for rigging yet...still time. Hope my thoughts/descriptions are accurate...Thanks!
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Well, Scott, I certainly understand your want to keep the port side clean and "unencumbered". :wink: So another alternative is to tab a couple of 3" pipes on the outboard side of the starboard stringer, one for the boats harness and the starboard engine rigging, the other for the port engine rigging. Assuming your going to go with hydraulic steering and a tie bar, run the steering hoses in the port side pipe to reduce clutter If you're going to have the batts in the console, keep in mind, even with little 75s on the back end, you'll still want 2GA batt cables running aft to the motors. Each one of those little buggers is about 1/2" in diameter...
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Well, Scott, I certainly understand your want to keep the port side clean and "unencumbered". :wink: So another alternative is to tab a couple of 3" pipes on the outboard side of the starboard stringer, one for the boats harness and the starboard engine rigging, the other for the port engine rigging. Assuming your going to go with hydraulic steering and a tie bar, run the steering hoses in the port side pipe to reduce clutter If you're going to have the batts in the console, keep in mind, even with little 75s on the back end, you'll still want 2GA batt cables running aft to the motors. Each one of those little buggers is about 1/2" in diameter...
Excellent, thanks Bob. I was hoping that was what you would say.
Do you think the 2" version of those flex tubes would rig to the Mercs?
Thanks bro.
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Scott, the 2" will work IF you run the fuel hose outside the hose. Are you going to be using oil tanks or are you gonna run pre-mix? Run pre-mix and you get rid of the tanks and the oil lines running to the motor. Those 2 lines alone really eat up available space inside the rigging hose. For fuel lines outside the rigging hose, I use a bulkhead fitting, barbs on both sides. Where are you locating the primer bulbs, inside the starboard box, or in the splashwell? How about the Racors?
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Hey thanks! I saw on the TH Marine site a flex hose with an outside fitting that allows for the primer bulb to be exposerd for a short length of the run...looked pretty cool.
The oil reservoirs are mounted on top of the engines, so thats good. The Racors are going in the starboard box. The port box will be storage for extra lube, soap, brushes, secret lures, etc. :wink:
The reason I asked about the 2 inch...you were saying that the 3 inch wouldn't hook up to those little Mercs...do you think the 2 inch ones will hook up OK?
Thanks!
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Scott,
I need to see a pic of where the rigging enters the lower pan of the motor. Most of the smaller motors are simply set up to accept the basic rigging, covered by either mesh sleeving or spiral wrap. Only when you get to the 150s and up do you see the lower pan designed to accept the rigging grommets and rigging hoses...
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Excellent. Next time I'm out there I'll take one and shoot it to you :thumleft:
Thanks :thumright:
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Don't forget to leave space for your secret speedo in that port box
Capt Matt
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Hey everybody!
I went out again today to try the boat out, get out of the house, and show my dad how the new boat performs. It was 38 degrees outside, so it got chilly pretty quick trying to do a high speed run with no windshield. I got it up to 43 mph today, which I'm pretty happy with.
Also, when I got home, I found out my battery cables had arrived from greg's marine wire & Capt. Bob's perko battery switch had arrived as well! Thanks for the quick shipment on that one! I'm tempted to go try to install the wires tomorrow, but I don't think that will go over too well on Christmas eve. :(
One question though. I know you have to buy batteries for a dual battery system that are the same age. I just bought a new battery for the boat in July & it probably hasn't been used more than 15 times out on the water. Since my battery is fairly new, can I get away with purchasing another battery just like it now(5 months after the first batteries purchase) to use for the house battery?
Thanks everybody!
-Ben
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Ben,
In my opinion, yes. It's done all the time. But if you research this subject (batts of different ages) on THT, you will find most will say no...and they have a lot of bucks to swap out Optimas...
Keep this strategy in mind. Running the motor, you have alternator output. Put your batt switch on "BOTH", both batts are receiving nice healthy juice. Shut down, turn the switch to "2", your house batt, and no loads are being drawn off "1", your start batt. All is good...
The only time a "bad" batt can draw down a "good" batt is when you have the 12V "circle"...positive from the batt to a device, device back to the negative. If the 2 batts are separated via the batt switch (half the circle is no longer present), how can a connection be made in such a way that one batt can draw down another batt? Through the common ground? I don't think so.
I'd like to be proven otherwise. Isolate the batts in non-charging applications, you'll be fine...
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Merry Christmas Ben :rendeer:
Absolutely you can mix batteries, as Bob has stated. The batt switch will get 'er done. THT "Proper" isn't proper round these parts :wink:
And as you've said...forget a boat this weekend. With the performance you've observed...you're right there.
Great job, good work...and enjoy a Merry Christmas :rendeer:
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Thats what I was thinking. As long as the batteries are separated when the engine is off & they are being drained, then one battery shouldn't drag the other one down. The only time I will have it on "both" is when running the engine or just stopping for short times somewhere. Any other time I will switch it over to "2".
Seabob's instruction to "isolate the batts in non-charging applications, you'll be fine" is a good rule to remember.
The basis of that question was because of some previous research on THT. My battery is new enough & not everybody out there can buy 4 optimas to put in their 42' yellowfin with trips on it like some of those guys on THT. I'm working with duralast batteries here. haha.
I will buy the same exact battery, so my CCA & everything matches up to the other battery.
Can anyone think of a way I could mount the battery switch to the inside wall of my center console without putting bolt holes through it? I was thinking put some 5200 or similar adhesive on the back of a piece of starboard, stick the starboard to the inside wall, then screw the battery switch into the starboard. Would that work?
I'm extremely happy with the performance of the boat now!
I really appreciate everyone's advice on this forum! Yall have real, humble advice without going to extreme expense with anything, but you guys still believe in doing it the right way without cheap, jackleg shortcuts! Its a nice change from THT!
I'm signing off on here now! Thanks for the Merry Christmas! I hope you all have a Merry Christmas & spend some quality time with your families! :santa: :rendeer: :rendeer: :rendeer: :rendeer:
-Ben
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Can anyone think of a way I could mount the battery switch to the inside wall of my center console without putting bolt holes through it? I was thinking put some 5200 or similar adhesive on the back of a piece of starboard, stick the starboard to the inside wall, then screw the battery switch into the starboard. Would that work?
You're on the right track but not with 5200 and starboard - it won't stick. Starboard requires a special glue ($$$). I just needed to do the same thing for the circuit breaker for my windlass. I took 3/4" plywood, sealed it with a sealer and stuck it to the side of the hull with 5200 and let it dry for a day. Then I predrilled holes in another sealed piece the same size and mounted that to the other and mounted the breaker to the 2nd peice.
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Excellent. Next time I'm out there I'll take one and shoot it to you :thumleft:
Thanks :thumright:
Uh-huh; Scott's gonna post some pics? :roll: Must be really cold in Hades today! :smurf:
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Excellent. Next time I'm out there I'll take one and shoot it to you :thumleft:
Thanks :thumright:
Uh-huh; Scott's gonna post some pics? :roll: Must be really cold in Hades today! :smurf:
:lol:
Always remember: "It ain't a lie if you believe it."
:oops: :oops: :lol:
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Scott - don't forget you will need a run of twin #6 wires from the batteries/switches up to the bow for a trolling motor outlet on a 50-60 amp breaker. Even if you don't install a trolling motor now, it will be a lot easier to run the wires and install an outlet in the bow now compared to after the deck is in place. :thumleft: Wire the outlet/breaker for 24 volts - don't mess with a 12 volt hookup - a 12 volt motor would not be enough for a 22 footer.
Also, you may want to consider some extra "pad" or reinforcement under the cap in an area for a future trolling motor mount. Again, it's easier to do it now compared to later... :wink: Think about an area where you could mount a quick-release bracket, so you don't have to have the motor on the boat all the time:
http://mk.factoryoutletstore.com/detail ... 54017.html (http://mk.factoryoutletstore.com/details/20885-43883/1854017.html)
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Much appreciated my friend, all good points. This is the time to do it, the casting deck and deck cap are still loose.
The deck cap has been recored with nidacore. It will be easy to add more coring as reinforcement. If I remember correctly, your trolling motor mount was on the port side at the bow?
Thanks!
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Here's a pic, but my CCP has a different cap than your 22-2:
(http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j7/GoneFission/CIMG0263.jpg)
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Yep, that's exactly how I remember it.
Good deal. Will glass in some permalloy coring under there.
Thanks bro!
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Hey everybody!
I have hooked up my dual battery setup, hooked up the switch, etc, etc. However, I can't seem to figure out one wiring issue.
Let me start off by describing how everything is wired up on my dual battery setup. I have the positive line from my motor hooked up to the "common" post on the battery switch. I then have the positive line from battery 1(motor starting battery) going to the #1 post on the battery switch. I have the positive line from battery 2(house battery) going to the #2 post on the battery switch. That covers all of my positives.
I have the negative line from my motor hooked up to the negative terminal on battery 1(motor starting battery). I also have a negative line going from the negative terminal of battery 1(motor starting battery) to the negative terminal of battery 2(house battery). This is how the dual batteries are hooked up. The battery switch setup seems to work as it should with my engine, but not with my main switch panel wire.
I have all my accessories(radio, bilge, court lights, nav lights, etc) hooked into the main switch panel of the boat. I then have a positive & negative wire that runs from the battery to the switch panel. I want this main switch panel wire(positive & negative) on my house battery. I first just hooked up the positive wire to the positive terminal on the house battery & the negative wire to the negative terminal on the house battery thinking power would be cut off to the switch panel when I switch the battery switch to "OFF". This did not work. My next idea was to keep the negative main switch panel wire on the negative terminal of the house battery, and then put the positive switch panel wire on the #2 post of the battery switch. This did not work either.
What am I doing wrong? Is there any way to hook up/setup my switch panel wiring that will cause all power to be cut off from it when the battery switch is in the "OFF" position?
Currently, I can turn on my radio & other accessories still when the battery switch is in the "OFF" position.
Also, are my dual batteries wired up correctly?
Thanks for reading this book of a question!
-Ben
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Hook the positive to the common post on the switch, where you have the motor positive.
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Hook the positive to the common post on the switch, where you have the motor positive.
Bingo.
With the switch in the Off position, no power is transmitted to either the motor or the panel. One of SB4's wiring schematics show this.
Therefore power will flow to both motor and panel when you switch to either position1, 2 or Both.
The Resource forum is your friend.
viewtopic.php?p=34004#p34004 (http://www.classicaquasport.com/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?p=34004#p34004)
There are several diagrams so don't get overwhelmed but but by simply attaching your panel positive lead to the common post on your switch will be the easiest way to accomplish your goal. Remember to fuse that positive lead to your panel close to the common post to protect the main panel.
Good luck.
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Thanks for that link. It was helpful to see those battery switch diagrams.
So if I attach my switch panel wiring to the common post on the battery switch, all power will be cut off to it in the "OFF" position, but power will still be provided if the battery switch is in the 1 or 2 or both positions? Is there anyway to isolate the power given to the switch panel to only times when the battery switch is on the "BOTH" or "#2" selection? Meaning if I have it on the "#1" selection, the switch panel accessories won't come on. Looking at this again, I don't see why you would never want your radio or other accessories to work in the #1 position, but is it possible to do this?
How do all of yall have you battery switches connected if you have the motors leads & a common switch panel main wire? I'm guessing you guys have the switch panel wired onto the common post on the battery switch with your motor. Do yall wire the bilge pump float switch directly to the battery or into the switch?
Thanks,
Ben
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Just about anything is possible but why is the question. Still, I believe SB has a gram that shows an additional switch.
You could use a switch between the battery and the panel. Connect your panel feed to the house battery like you did at first and add a switch in that line (smaller switches are available). That way, you can turn your panel on and off whenever and how much you like.
So you know, my setup is what was proposed by Rick and reflected on Bobs diagrams for a simple system. It's been working that way since 86 when I first went to dual batteries. I'm a day boater but I have spent overnight on my boats in the past. Seems to work just fine. I don't have my bilge pumps wired directly to my batteries because the boat resides on a trailer. I do have a computer monitored pump in the stern and a float switch monitored in the bow. They're on because my panel is always hot when the battery switch is in any position but Off.
Good luck.
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Here is how I have the Cape Horn set up...
(http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh301/seabob4/Cape%20Horn%2023/CapeHorn23103.jpg)
The black batt switch is the port motor. The red, the starboard. The single on/off is for the house. The house batt is combined with the starboard batt via the Yandina 100 combiner/isolater you see to the left of the switches, the small rectangular box. With the starboard motor running, and the output voltage of the alternator sufficient, the Yandina automatically combines the 2 batts so the house batt get charged. Shut down the starboard motor, the 2 batts are isolated. The reason the starboard batt is chosen is that when most twin engine boats troll, they shut down the port motor and troll only on the starboard.
The down side to this setup is that one cannot parallel the house batt with either the starboard or port batts through the switches. However, a simple positive jumper takes care of that. The up side of this is that both motors are COMPLETELY isolated from any houseloads while shut down. Your electronics or whatever could completely drain the house batt, yet the engine batts will be fine. And if you are on the hook with both motors shut down, and all of the sudden the MFD throws a low voltage alarm, simply fire up the starbnoard motor, the Yandina combines the batts, and your back in business...
The owner will be using a SERIOUS group 27 Deep Cycle for the house batt. He'd have to run a lot of stuff a long time to bring that batt down to where it needs the other batt to give it a boost...
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I went ahead & just put the switch panel positive line on the common post of the battery switch. That does make the most sense now that I have used the boat a little bit more.
Anyway, I just wanted to say thanks to everybody who helped me out with my constant questions & those who helped me source parts/donated parts to the cause! I was able to put 6 hours on the boat over the past week, which is pretty good for January in Tennessee. Although there were some days when the temp was 35 degrees with 20-30 mph winds, we did get about 3 days where the temperature was 60+ degrees! I love the boat a little more each time I drive it around. Now, I just can't wait until mid-March when I get to pull it down to Bonita Springs, FL for a little vacation time. Until then, this is the best I can do...
(http://i1230.photobucket.com/albums/ee481/btf112989/IMAG0264.jpg)
(http://i1230.photobucket.com/albums/ee481/btf112989/IMAG0263.jpg)
-Ben
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I like that drink holder, where did you get it?
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Looks like Edson?
Capt Matt
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It came with the boat when I bought it, but I think it is an edson. I like the simple design of it & the fact that it holds pretty much any size drink. Here is an edson one that is very similar: http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|406|319789&id=1165932
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Ben, see you have a Clarion head unit there, one of my favorites, as it is very easy to use, and damn near waterproof!
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The clarion cmd4 that came with the boat(the one I asked about awhile ago) was damn near waterproof until about 5" of rain fell in knoxville one weekend with no cover on the boat. The display fogged up & everything.
I just ordered the cmd7 in the picture last week. I absolutely love the usb connection cord & ipod interface! I can leave my ipod in my boat bag the whole time & control every feature of the ipod from the head unit! I didn't buy the cmd6(with the stainless steel chassis), since I live in Tennessee & I don't need that little bit of extra output. Its amazing the difference between this stereo's output & the cheap Dual head unit I had in there for a little while.
I would highly recommend it!
I have one other question. I hooked my gas gauge up & it was showing a full tank. I have a 28 gallon tank in the boat & after putting about 7-8 hours on the engine at various speeds( alot of time at 4000 rpms), shouldn't I see a drop on the gas gauge? It still reads full or very near full. When I put the boat on the trailer & it is facing downhill, the gauge reads 3/4 of a tank. However it doesn't seem to move otherwise. Whenever I cut power to the gauge, the needle falls all the way to empty, then back up to full when I turn power on to it. So, I think the gauge is working properly. Is something wrong with my gauge/sender, or is my HPDI just that fuel efficient? It is January, so I can't run the boat as much as I would like to in order to investigate the gauge further.
-Ben
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Ben,
Not to read back through the whole thread (I'm lazy, what can I say!), but have you ever messed with the sender? If it's not to hard to access, pull the sender and move the float through it's entire range while observing the fuel gauge (key on). There's also the possibility the float may be stuck. Gauges don't usually fail, senders fail all the time...
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Seabob,
I have not messed with the sender at all. I'm guessing the float may be stuck, since there is a little bit of movement in its range from full to 3/4. I have an access plate right over the sender. I can't remember how the sender is fastened into the tank with. Is it just glued into the tank with sealant, or are there some bolts to undo? I don't think the access plate is exactly over the sender, so it could take some work to get it out. Any chance I screwed up making the gauge connections, eventhough it is registering on the gauge? I think moving the float through its range may be just what I need to do!
-Ben
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Fill her up and see how many gallons she takes, that will give you an indication on if the sender is stuck or not. I don't believe you have made an error on hooking up the gauge.
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One does have to be careful when wiring a fuel gauge. The posts are labeled "S", "I", and "G". NEVER confuse S (sender) and I (12v+). If 12V+ is hooked to the S post, it will basically fry the sender...
The sender should be bolted to the tank with either 5 or 6 bolts. Remove the bolts (don't lose them!), and lift and tilt the sender however you need to get it out. Move the float up and down as described before, also see if it has a tendency to hang up at about the 3/4 full level. Several good shots of PB Blaster should take care of that...