Classic AquaSport
Aquasport Model Rebuilds, Mods, Updates and Refreshes => Osprey Style Hull Rebuilds => 196 Rebuilds => Topic started by: MarshMarlowe196 on December 11, 2011, 10:55:04 AM
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My boat seems to have some kind of Dermatitis... There's some kind of ripples/blisters that are forming on the boat, and they're spreading :scratch:
The ripples/blisters only started out near the fuel vent on the starboard hull-side, and the affected area was smaller than it is now. I figured it was just some kind of reaction with the gas fumes/overfill and the ancient gelcoat, but the affliction has since spread to other areas of the boat, and seems like its continuing to spread.
The ripples aren't spongy in any way; they are hard to the touch.
What is causing this?
I've heard a few theories-
Water Blisters
Ok, if it is water blisters, why are they forming on a location of the boat that doesn't have continuous contact with the water? I've seen water blisters on hulls before, but it's almost always on the hull and almost always on boats that are left moored in the water continuously.
Uncured resin that is curing sporadically and causing tension, and the ripples are the result
Seems plausible, but the resin's had 38 years to cure now...
Air bubbles forming under the Gelcoat
This seems to make the most sense to me, but this theory was given by my Dad and I'm naturally more biased to his opinion. He says he's seen this occur on new boats fresh out of the mold, and has seen it continue to spread like it has on my hull.
Normally, I wouldn't care about this because it's not affecting the structure or fishability of my boat in any way. BUT- I was going to paint the boat here soon, and I don't want to do all prep required getting rid of these blisters only to have them come back in a fresh coat of paint. That would really hurt my feelings.
Any thoughts on this guys? Here's some pictures of my boat's ailment-
Starboard Stern-
(http://i587.photobucket.com/albums/ss320/MarshMallowe196/PC100250.jpg)
(http://i587.photobucket.com/albums/ss320/MarshMallowe196/PC100249.jpg)
(http://i587.photobucket.com/albums/ss320/MarshMallowe196/PC100243.jpg)
(http://i587.photobucket.com/albums/ss320/MarshMallowe196/PC100246.jpg)
Starboard, hullside, midway between stern and console-
(http://i587.photobucket.com/albums/ss320/MarshMallowe196/PC100248.jpg)
(http://i587.photobucket.com/albums/ss320/MarshMallowe196/PC100247.jpg)
(http://i587.photobucket.com/albums/ss320/MarshMallowe196/PC100245.jpg)
Near the Fuel Vent, Starboard side
(http://i587.photobucket.com/albums/ss320/MarshMallowe196/PC100238.jpg)
(http://i587.photobucket.com/albums/ss320/MarshMallowe196/PC100239.jpg)
Thanks guys :salut:
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Well she's 38 know; maybe stretchmarks, you know these boats put on weight as they get older and start losing muscle tone! Seriously, what about an old repair area from years ago thats begining to delaminate, any indication that the hull has been touched up in that area? Pop one of the blisters and see if there is any funcky colored primer or body work that looks suspect. That would be my best guess...
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Damn, that's weird Jess.
I'll call Chris at Seamark in the morning and get his spin, and report back.
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Jess,
You say they are hard to the touch. Have you tried the old starboard trick? Take a stout piece of starboard and give them a good rap. If it's air, well, you know what will happen there. But I doubt it's air under the gel, I'm betting delam...
If you drilled into one, you'd probably find a void about 3/32" in...
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Well she's 38 know; maybe stretchmarks, you know these boats put on weight as they get older and start losing muscle tone! Seriously, what about an old repair area from years ago thats begining to delaminate, any indication that the hull has been touched up in that area? Pop one of the blisters and see if there is any funcky colored primer or body work that looks suspect. That would be my best guess...
Jess
showed my neighbor Kenneth who has built boats and had his own business, agree with Fitz 100%, somewhere sometime in the past she has been painted, and someone used something underneath that is now beginning to absorb moisture, a primer, body filler etc...
Marc
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That makes good sense, particularly how its almost a straight line in that one pic.
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Get a 1/8" drill bit and drill one near the cap and see what comes out. If water comes out I think you know the solution. If nothing comes out I would grind a small place around the hole and see just what is under there. Taper it out so you can see the layers. Post some pics of what you find.
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Thanks for all the input guys! :)
The idea of a repair done in the past that is now soaking up moisture seems to be a good theory, but it would have had to be a big repair. These ripples/blisters run almost completely down the starboard side of the boat now, starting at the fill vent and ending at the transom. There's also some beginning to form on the port hull-side as well... I'm pretty familiar with the history of this boat- one previous owner, a factory here in town; a spill clean up boat that was barely used. According to my Uncle (who worked at the plant), the boats never had a repair. Almost seems more like a layup botch-up in Hialeah, but if that's true, will these blisters ever stop?
Of course, this is all just speculation on my part. Lewis, Seabob, Fitz- I will try your methods of diagnosis, and will report back with my findings. Thanks a lot guys
:salut:
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Hope it's not the GPS. :oops:
You didn't have any problems till ya hooked it up. :scratch:
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Hope it's not the GPS. :oops:
You didn't have any problems till ya hooked it up. :scratch:
That's it!! Massive stray DC current (???) going straight into the glass.....
J/K!! :lol: :lol:
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Hope it's not the GPS. :oops:
You didn't have any problems till ya hooked it up. :scratch:
That's it!! Massive stray DC current (???) going straight into the glass.....J/K!! :lol: :lol:
I was thinkin' maybe the Lowrance was picking up transmission signals around 1381.05 MGz. :bom:
Jess, have you noticed any unexplained hair loss lately? :o
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"Spill response clean up vessel" Interesting potential for hull contamination and degrade depending on the level of exposure and what it was. Just covering all the bases. It's very strange whats happening to that hull and I doubt a bad layup job from almost 40 years ago is starting to show up now. The hull is past its designed life expectancy by what,20 years anyway? What doesn't make sense is that this is above the waterline.
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Just spoke with Chris at Seamark.
His thoughts:
Gelcoat as it ages degrades. He feels that since the problem began near the fuel fill, maybe as the boat was running ethanol gas blew out of the vent towards the stern. The ethanol may have invaded through pinholes in the gel.
He says he's noticed a bunch of pinholes in my gel as he's been working on my mess. More he digs, the more he finds. Especially in what he terms the "skincoat". Mine is a '73.
He says the fix isn't as bad as we may think. Either sandblast it or sand it down. Get it all off to where its all out and exposed. Then prime and spray gel or Awlgrip.
Don't know if that's the cause or not, but at least we have some solid direction on the fix.
Merrry Christmas to you guys! :santa:
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Bob-
Hairloss? Yes :( As far as it being unexplained, I had a few pre-marriage related theories, but yours now makes the most sense. Still lovin' the GPS by the way :thumright: , I hope my owning it is still serving your purposes as well. :wink:
Fitz- You know, I didn't want to reach too far on this, but I had the same thoughts. Would be very interesting if that were truly the cause, and if it were I don't know how I would prove it... The spill would have been a coolant if there were a spill. :scratch:
Gran- I think your guy's got it. Sounds completely feasible, and would explain the spread. The boat saw very little use in its past life, and when I got the boat it was full of old disgusting dino gas. The first time it was subjected to ethanol vapors was when I owned it, and I have admittedly overfilled the tank a time or two.
We'll know more when I cut into one of the blisters; don't think it'll be today. It's miserably cold, wet, and rainy here right now.
I'll look at it this way- these ugly boils are giving me that much more incentive to paint the boat, and after that my boat might be half as attractive as Skidaway.
:flower:
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Hey remember how she got that name?
A flatlander Georgia Cracker was running a boat wide open throttle and went into a hard turn...and the steering wheel fell right off!!
Then we heard someone say "Wow, look at that thing skid away!!"
:flower:
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I have something similar on my 170. One side is from a repair. The other side looks just like yours. My boat is a '71. I think we need to email the Q/C department at AS back in 1970! The gelcoat is bubbling after 40 years. Overall it does not bother me. I can't see it unless the glare is just right.
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I think that Scott’s boy up in North Cackalaky is probably right about the ethanol from the fuel vent triggering the flare up of your boat’s latent case of fiberglass herpes. I am not a chemist, nor do I play one on TV. However, here is my hypothesis on what is going on within the laminates of your boat.
Polyester catalyst is a combination methyl ethyl ketone peroxide in dibutyl phthalate and cobalt napthenate solution that provides the plasticizers and set/curing agents. The solution also prevents the fairly unstable methyl ethyl ketone peroxide from blowing up from heat and shocks. This solution is generally called MEKP. These boats were all laid up in the skin coat with a chopper gun which simultaneously chops/sprays strands of mat, polyester resin and MEKP from a chopper gun head. Sometimes, the catalyst is not mixing properly with resin from the gun head and the long chopped strands of glass suck up excess MEKP into the fibers. It is well mixed enough to kick the resin solution encapsulating the chopped strands of fiber, but there still resides higher levels of methyl ethyl ketone peroxide, dibutyl phthalate and cobalt napthenate within the laminate than would be ideal.
Generally, we hear about these issues when newer boats have severe underwater blistering in a relatively short time period of the boat being in the water. In these cases, the methyl ethyl ketone that remains after catalyzing of the resin wicks in moisture as it is water soluble. The wicking of the water creates osmotic pressure and underwater blistering. Your blistering seems to have occurred some 4 decades later above the waterline, so that doesn’t really seem like our plausible huckleberry. Both the cobalt napthenate and the dibutyl phthalate, on the other hand, are alcohol soluble. These are the plasticizers/set promoters that are in the catalyst. If excess levels of these solutions remained in the chopped strands, this may very well explain why the blistering began at the fuel vent. The introduction of alcohol/ethanol may have triggered the chemical stressing and decomposition of the skin coat at that location. As the decomposition continued, the pox spread all over the boat separating the gel from the skin coat. More than likely, the skin coat is separating from the roving laminates or you would be seeing cracking in the porous gelcoat.
While intriguing, figuring out what happened is pretty much a game of mental masturbation, as it doesn’t change the remedy of a whole helluva lotta sanding and fairing.
Just spoke with Chris at Seamark.
His thoughts:
Gelcoat as it ages degrades. He feels that since the problem began near the fuel fill, maybe as the boat was running ethanol gas blew out of the vent towards the stern. The ethanol may have invaded through pinholes in the gel.
He says he's noticed a bunch of pinholes in my gel as he's been working on my mess. More he digs, the more he finds. Especially in what he terms the "skincoat". Mine is a '73.
He says the fix isn't as bad as we may think. Either sandblast it or sand it down. Get it all off to where its all out and exposed. Then prime and spray gel or Awlgrip.
Don't know if that's the cause or not, but at least we have some solid direction on the fix.
Merrry Christmas to you guys! :santa:
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I'm still troubled by these damn boat hives on young Jesse' hull. I could see if it was getting bathed in an ethanol solution and having a reaction. But this blistering caused by venting fumes? I don't want to beat this dead Aquasport but whats to say that this hasn't imbedded itself right into the micro grains of the actual resin bond. Whats to say it won't comeback after a strip and new paint job? Maybe time to hunt another hull...
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I'm still troubled by these damn boat hives on young Jesse' hull. I could see if it was getting bathed in an ethanol solution and having a reaction. But this blistering caused by venting fumes? I don't want to beat this dead Aquasport but whats to say that this hasn't imbedded itself right into the micro grains of the actual resin bond. Whats to say it won't comeback after a strip and new paint job? Maybe time to hunt another hull...
Yep.
That's been my concern all along, and also why I wanted to get some input on this. All of these weighted theories, as interesting as they've been, seem to point to the idea that Yes, these blisters will continue to form regardless of any refinishing I attempt.
I have been considering a new hull. Its a little bittersweet.
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I'm still troubled by these damn boat hives on young Jesse' hull. I could see if it was getting bathed in an ethanol solution and having a reaction. But this blistering caused by venting fumes? I don't want to beat this dead Aquasport but whats to say that this hasn't imbedded itself right into the micro grains of the actual resin bond. Whats to say it won't comeback after a strip and new paint job? Maybe time to hunt another hull...
Yep.
That's been my concern all along, and also why I wanted to get some input on this. All of these weighted theories, as interesting as they've been, seem to point to the idea that Yes, these blisters will continue to form regardless of any refinishing I attempt.
I have been considering a new hull. Its a little bittersweet.
It sucks Jesse but may be inevitable. You have a brand new engine, rigging, console, trolling motor, etc. Plenty of components to upgrade another hull if you choose to. Assuming you want another AS, just say the word and the process will begin.
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Jess, absolutely, bittersweet.
Most of us have reached the same conclusion.... kudos to Fitz for stating such.
The good news is that there are a TON of 19-6's out there at present.
The 22-2's are tougher to find, but your 140 Suzuki was a pleasure to run, a honey...and plenty of motor (perhaps the ideal motor, original open transom) if you wanted to go to a 22-2.
Know you have that 20 Potter Seacraft too...lot to think about.
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Jesse,
Here are a couple of 19'6" to replace the current hull.....
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I really like that first one.
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Thanks guys. I'm not a big fan of the post 75' hulls when they changed the gunwales and also I'm located in South Carolina... Florida is a bit of a haul to check out a hull.
I've really been considering one of these. I can pick it up for a steal, and it would suit me better for the type of fishing I do. Would never rot... Would you guys kick me out if I bought it?
(http://www.keywestboatsinc.com/uploads/images/boats/large/9112f2728a8ce154e61bc01a294ce3ab.jpg)
That's my brother driving. Any thoughts or persuasive input against this boat?
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Heck no...I'd be all about it.
That sweet 140 would push it like a bat outta hades.
That is a great hull too...modified "soft" cathedral...I'll put the thinking cap on and try and remember a first gen version :thumright:
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Would you guys kick me out if I bought it?
No, you can stay but your GPS would never work in that hull. :roll:
You have the return address. I'll split the shipping. :mrgreen:
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Well since your are getting rid of your AS... I want first dibs on it when you scrap out the old hull. :D
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Your contributions would be missed, so you hang around. If you get rid of it,I want dibs on your bait boxes.