Classic AquaSport
Aquasport Model Rebuilds, Mods, Updates and Refreshes => Generic Aquasport Rebuilding Topics => Topic started by: Curious on September 23, 2011, 08:55:39 AM
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So a while back I posted that the top cap on the transom was cracked and asked you guys if I should repair the transom:
(http://i932.photobucket.com/albums/ad164/seikinnow/Aquasport/084.jpg)
One of you said to just bolt the motor on and use the boat until it gets really bad. Before I took the old motor off, I jumped up and down on the cavitation plate and the transom seemed really solid- very little flex. But....... Yesterday, I removed an old transducer from the lower starboard side of the transom and the screws had the telltale black mud on them and the holes pretty much leaked water. Oh, and the boat hasn't been in the water for at least 6 or 7 years. Now I'm thinking I have a transom rebuild on my hands. If I do it, I would dig it out with the drill/chainsaw method and pour with Seacast or Arjay. By the way it's a 1975 22FF. Based on yesterday's findings and the cracked top cap, what do you guys think?
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That looks pretty bad to me. I'd say fix it now before more damage is done.
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Always remember that your motor pushes forward on the transom. The crack is developing because of this force. The mulch at the bottom only confirms what you already know. A transom with a crack like that could let go at any moment. My concern about pouring yours would be the crack itself. You really need to repair that area from the inside with several layers of 1708. If you just chainsaw it out I don't think you will have enough room to do a proper job. JMHO.
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Curious...Since she's a '75...any inclination to do the deck/stringers also?
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From the look of that crack, you really have to fix it properly. So it's either a lot of 'sweat-equity' type work on your part, or your hard-earned money to pay a professional. But there is an "added value" to rebuilding the transom: You can go ahead and take it to full height, which (IMHO) looks very nice and functions well. Take a look at the Photo Gallery 22's.
My guess would be that if the transom is in bad shape, the stringers/deck are equally as water-logged - at least at the aft end.
It's a slippery slope...you'll end up wanting to paint the hull after you re-build.
But hey! You've got a ton of knowledge/support here at the site.
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Thanks for the input, guys. I'm not too knowledgeable about this stuff but I'm fairly handy and I have a couple of brothers who are really good with fiberglass and wood so I plan on putting them to work. Gran, I have no inclination to get into a full rebuild like the ones I've seen on here, although I have a feeling that you're asking me because you know the stringers are most likely saturated. What I would like to do is grind the top cap off, dig out the wet mulch in the transom, pour Seacast or Arjay, recap and be done with it. My question is, if the stringers are saturated, am I wasting my time? All I'm really looking to do is get a few years out of it.
C Master- I would love to fully enclose the transom and mount a bracket. But I'm on a limited budget and I have a 20" 200 Yamaha Salt Water Series motor ready to go on the boat. I don't mind the sweat equity but the real equity is limited!
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Well, you're right. But the good news is that the stringers are void of wood....well almost void (there is a small strip of plywood running inside that acted as a support until the foam set) so yep, other than wet foam on the inside, the stringers glass-wise should be okay. This is probably the biggest reason these boats are still around/being rebuilt today; there is actually something to rebuild to.
Heck yea, crank up the Stihl and have at it :lol:
If you get out all of the mung (particularly at the base) you should be fine. A long piece of solid steel will help with the digging, and a leaf blower, shop vac, etc. Get her dried out good before you start the pour.
There are threads here to help. Keep us posted :thumright:
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Thanks Gran. I watched some Youtube videos and one guy used a round rasp on the end of a drill extension that helped clean up the glass before the pour. I also plan on drilling out as much as I can with a long spade bit before firing up the chain saw.
Next question- What is the general consensus, Arjay or Seacast? Cost comparison? And where would I get it, I live in the Northeast.
Thanks again! Hopefully I'll have some time soon to tackle this.
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You got it, and good luck.
Captain Bob may move this thread to Rebuilds so the boys can come on and input regarding the fill material question.
Have a great weekend :thumright:
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Had a great discussion with fitz regarding this. The transom and stringers on our 22-2's are independent. That is, the transom is a closed fiberglass unit. The stringers are closed (albeit wet) units. Per design, there should be no transfer of water from the stringers to the transom base.
The board consensus is that stringer leakage occurs from above, due to screw/hole leaks in the floor (console bedding) over the years. And the reason the decks go soft on either side of the console.
The stringers at the stern base tab/join directly to the interior transom fiberglass skin. No direct transfer of water from one to the other occurs. The interior fiberglass transom skin extending to the hull bottom blocks it.
At least in theory... :mrgreen:
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Fitz, Seabob, etc.:
That transom crack in "Curious"'s first photo is in sort of a strange place, no? It looks like the outboard "face" is pushed out, and perhaps the inside face too. I'm wondering what would cause that? Wood swelling?
If it's getting re-built anyway, it doesn't matter, but I wish I could see more photos of it.
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Thanks Gran. I watched some Youtube videos and one guy used a round rasp on the end of a drill extension that helped clean up the glass before the pour. I also plan on drilling out as much as I can with a long spade bit before firing up the chain saw.
Next question- What is the general consensus, Arjay or Seacast? Cost comparison? And where would I get it, I live in the Northeast.
Thanks again! Hopefully I'll have some time soon to tackle this.
Curious, thanks.
Arjay vs. Seacast as pour material...Hopefully Matt can chime in here. Thanks.
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I have only seen one transom poured and i was not too impressed. I would build it from coosa board or marine plywood layered with biaxle then tab it in.
Capt Matt
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Here's a start. Search is your friend.
http://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=7063.0
Follow the links. :ScrChin:
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Well, I've done a little more research and here's what I think I'm going to do. I'll cut the rear skin off the transom, leaving about 4 inches or so around the sides and bottom like this:
(http://i932.photobucket.com/albums/ad164/seikinnow/Mako.jpg)
It'll make it that much easier to dig out all the rotten wood and get it clean and dry. Then reattach and brace like this:
(http://i932.photobucket.com/albums/ad164/seikinnow/Mako2.jpg)
And then do the pour. It seems like an extra step but I don't think I'll get it as clean by just accessing through the top cap.
Next question, if I go to all this trouble, should I drill into the rear of the stringer while I have the back end opened up and see if the foam is wet? I'm a lot more comfortable now knowing that the stringer is glassed in seperate from the transom, but I feel like I should do some exploratory surgery while I have access.
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I would build it from coosa board or marine plywood layered with biaxle then tab it in.
Capt Matt
I haven't ruled this out yet either, although I am leaning toward the pour method. Would I still cut the back skin off, clean out the rotten wood, build the transom up with the coosa or wood, put the rear skin back on and glass it in? If I did this, how do you fasten the new wood or coosa to the front and rear skin of the transom? Thanks for the input.
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Fitz, Seabob, etc.:
That transom crack in "Curious"'s first photo is in sort of a strange place, no? It looks like the outboard "face" is pushed out, and perhaps the inside face too. I'm wondering what would cause that? Wood swelling?
If it's getting re-built anyway, it doesn't matter, but I wish I could see more photos of it.
I'm pretty sure it's wood swelling because it got wet. It could also be that it got wet, swelled, then froze and expanded as well, (I live in the Northest). Some on this site have mentioned that it is probably just the top cap separating from the transom which seems to happen on occassion as well. I was almost going to just seal it and mount the motor until I saw how much black mud and moisture came out of the screw holes at the bottom of the transom that I mentioned. At any rate, here's a couple more pics:
(http://i932.photobucket.com/albums/ad164/seikinnow/Aquasport/083.jpg)
(http://i932.photobucket.com/albums/ad164/seikinnow/Aquasport/085.jpg)
(http://i932.photobucket.com/albums/ad164/seikinnow/Aquasport/086.jpg)
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Fitz, Seabob, etc.:
That transom crack in "Curious"'s first photo is in sort of a strange place, no? It looks like the outboard "face" is pushed out, and perhaps the inside face too. I'm wondering what would cause that? Wood swelling?
If it's getting re-built anyway, it doesn't matter, but I wish I could see more photos of it.
I'm pretty sure it's wood swelling because it got wet. It could also be that it got wet, swelled, then froze and expanded as well, (I live in the Northest). Some on this site have mentioned that it is probably just the top cap separating from the transom which seems to happen on occassion as well. I was almost going to just seal it and mount the motor until I saw how much black mud and moisture came out of the screw holes at the bottom of the transom that I mentioned. At any rate, here's a couple more pics:
(http://i932.photobucket.com/albums/ad164/seikinnow/Aquasport/083.jpg)
(http://i932.photobucket.com/albums/ad164/seikinnow/Aquasport/085.jpg)
You'll notice the main crack on the starboard vertical side in the first pic and then there is another one just to the right of where the motor mounts to the transom. By the way, I think this cap area has had some repair work done to it before, you can see minor imperfections in the gelcoat that looks like its been fixed before. Probably should have mentioned that.
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Fitz, Seabob, etc.:
That transom crack in "Curious"'s first photo is in sort of a strange place, no? It looks like the outboard "face" is pushed out, and perhaps the inside face too. I'm wondering what would cause that? Wood swelling?
If it's getting re-built anyway, it doesn't matter, but I wish I could see more photos of it.
I'm pretty sure it's wood swelling because it got wet. It could also be that it got wet, swelled, then froze and expanded as well, (I live in the Northest). Some on this site have mentioned that it is probably just the top cap separating from the transom which seems to happen on occassion as well. I was almost going to just seal it and mount the motor until I saw how much black mud and moisture came out of the screw holes at the bottom of the transom that I mentioned. At any rate, here's a couple more pics:
(http://i932.photobucket.com/albums/ad164/seikinnow/Aquasport/083.jpg)
(http://i932.photobucket.com/albums/ad164/seikinnow/Aquasport/085.jpg)
You'll notice the main crack on the starboard vertical side in the first pic and then there is another one just to the right of where the motor mounts to the transom. By the way, I think this cap area has had some repair work done to it before, you can see minor imperfections in the gelcoat that looks like its been fixed before. Probably should have mentioned that.
The wood core supports the fiberglass and gelcoat. When the core rots, the support for the fiberglass and gelcoat is gone and it begins to collapse and crack. There is not much to read into this; thats pretty much whats going on. You need a transom. You can either pour a new one or cut the glass from the INSIDE and dig out the core and replace with the material of choice. Cutting the outside of the transom to decore is a carryover from wood boat days and will cause you many hours of fairing in the new transom and less strenght in my opinion.
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Absolutely, from the inside, leaving the rear skin on. All of what fitz has just mentioned, plus, the hull stays more rigid.
(Its attached to the stern-most hull sides)
An added benefit: you keep intact the stamped Aqua hull #'s.
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Would you guys make my mind up for me, for cryin' out loud! :lol: Now you've got me thinking that the best method, structurally, is to remove the top cap, leave the inner and outer skin in place, grind out the rot, pour, and recap! Again, keep in mind that I don't want to get involved in a deck off, refoam the stringers, etc, etc complete rebuild. Anyways, I thought I had this all figured out....
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Poured transom results are generally pretty good. Probably less work than a full recore. Do your prep work well and you are likely to get good results. Some manufacturers actually advertise a poured transom as an advantage.
Survey says... !!!
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If the core was as wet as you said I would not try to dig it out with both skins intact. You can still pour it just cut out the inside, grind out the old and fix any delams. Then build a dam out of melanine coated with release wax and PVA. With the inside skin gone you can repair any issues with the outer skin much more easily. Then tab the sole back to your pour.
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I thought melanine was what the Chinese substituted for protein in baby formula that was some sort of glue? Does it work for transom repair also?
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Careful here bro...you could be guilty of... a "thread-morph" :!:
:thumright:
Like yes like yes you thank. Yes! Melanine yes! Too for good baby!
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Sorry spellcheck didn't pick it up! MelaMine.
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Poured is going to be the quickest method, Its all in the prep work
I went all out cutting out the old transom when I did mine. I knew I would be hanging my motor on a porta bracket and it would need to be crazy strong.
Capt Matt
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Curious,
IMHO and not so HO I'd go with a poured SEACAST transom. I did my 19'6 4 years ago with Seacast, and the transom is rock solid. I cut the rear skin off so I could do a real good job of cleaning out the old plywood. I added a layer of mate and roving to the inside of the skin I cut off and to the inside of the inner transom to strengthen it. Used a 5/8 plywood form and screwed the outside skin to it then screwed it to the back of the boat. This held everything in place and in position for the Seacast pour. It took 2) 5 gal buckets of Seacast to do my transom. I put a mate cap on the top of the transome while the Seacast was still "wet". Had to actually mix up a little resin to fully wet it out. Let the whole thing cure up for a day. Then I made a form that matched the top of the transom and filled that (about 1/2-5/8 ") with 1/4 fileings and resin.
You'll have to grind back about 4 inches either side of the cut line on the rear skin and glass the seam in.
Then there is plenty of sanding to do if you want it to look good. I sprayed gelcoat and sanded it to 1200 grit then buffed it out. The project is a fair amount of work about 40-50 hours but I think it was well worth the effort.
BTW you use all polyester resin when working with seacast, no epoxy.
I posted some pictures of the finished job.
http://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=7063.0
Good luck