Classic AquaSport
Aquasport Model Rebuilds, Mods, Updates and Refreshes => Center Console Professional (CCP) Rebuilds => 246/250 CCP Rebuilds => Topic started by: kaptainkoz on September 10, 2011, 09:09:29 PM
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Finally, after almost 2 months of gawking at her, I raised enough dough to buy it, aparently not a moment too soon as the seller told me someone was supposed to pick her up 2 days AGO! Ouch.
She is nothing special at the moment. She is a mess. Needs everything... floor, gas tank cover, woodwork, motor, wiring... you name it.
This will be a loooong term project (unless I hit the lottery that I dont even play), but, she will be like nothing anyone has every seen i assure you.
On the agenda is the following:
New floor with Greenwood XL 3/4 plywood
close off the transom and add a Armstrong type bracket for an ealy 90's Evinrude Looper 225
Leave the existing stern live well and cast a custom, flush, hatch cover
Cut out and glass in the stern batery boxes from my 200CCP, bridge the gap with a custom bait station with a fresh water sink and a cutout for a second Lowrance broadband fish finder
transplant the 4 foot coffin box from my 200CCP and move the center console up 2+ feet
Transplant the center console from my 200CCP (which is almost a foot shorter) and build a custom, minimalist, phone booth type Pilot house that will bolt right to the center colsole (see photo below)
Leave in the existing bow in-floor storage compartment, but cast a costom, flush hatch cover
Rewire the whole boat with marine tinned wire and LED lights where applicable
Anyone looking for parts check the parts forum or long island craigslist. for sale will be:
1979 246CCP - Center console
Coffin box
Various splashwell castings, hatches and pieces
1978 200CCP - splash well cover
in floor stern baitwell
in floor bow compartment
front grab rails
center console grab rail with custom light bar (look up kaptainkoz on here and see my 200ccp posts... you will see it)
custom mahogony splashwell bench (look up kaptainkoz and you will see it in older posts)
Anyways,.. as I said all will be posted in the for sale forum
Much more to come. I will post the play by play as it happens.
Here is some starter "Aquaporn" for now
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/Aquasport%20246ccp%201980/P9110651.jpg)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/Aquasport%20246ccp%201980/P9110652.jpg)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/Aquasport%20246ccp%201980/P9110653.jpg)
Beautiful site.... 1978 200CCP on the left, 1980 246CCP on the right. Its sad that the 200 is going to be canibalized but the 246 will be awesome at its expense
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/Aquasport%20246ccp%201980/P9110655.jpg)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/Aquasport%20246ccp%201980/P9110662.jpg)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/Aquasport%20246ccp%201980/P9110667.jpg)
Didnt have time to wash her out but its all going anyways
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/Document13.jpg)
heres the plan for the pilot house
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Koz,
Good plan!
Know you picked her up right.
Only one suggestion. The 3/4 deck...not needed IMHO. Go with 1/2 inch AC fir (5 ply) plywood if you want to go with plywood. All you need, quality product. Glassed both sides.
Captain Matt and Lil' Richard are the experts here regarding rebuilds. Am sure they will be here to help.
Looking forward to seeing you work the plan.
Nice boat...and the excess correct hardware...would think that would be needed from the guys right here on the board.
Good post...and thanks.
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Congrats on the new boat,it looks pretty good now :thumright:
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Thanks for the suggestion Gran, but im pretty set on the Greenwood XL from Overtons.com. True, 3/4 could be a bit much but the Greenwood Xl only comes in 3/4 that I can find. It is a kiln dried pressure treated marine ply which will take glass and resin. I know the argument is that it lasted almost 30 years with ply, where will it be 30 years from now..... but I dont want to think about it. I'd rather do it in the Greenwood and pretty much NEVER have to worry about again.
I looked into Coosa board but the price is insane and im not thrilled about how well it holds a screw. Same think with the Nida Core on cost and even worse with holding screws.
I will use the basic A/C Fir when I build the pilot house.
Thanks Scott as well... yes she looks good already and is a great start to an interesting build.
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I'm sure you've seen it, but there is a BIG difference between the 246 and 200 - it seems like a lot more than 2.5 feet.
Check these folks out for ideas about your pilothouse - they do a lot of them:
http://www.pacificpilothouse.com/why_us.html (http://www.pacificpilothouse.com/why_us.html)
I'm with the others on 1/2" versus 3/4" - use 1/2" marine ply and you will save weight and never know the difference in stiffness, especially if you run a couple stiffener pieces under the center deck section.
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Thanks Fission,
yes, ive seen the pacific pilothouse site and they are cool, but way too expensive for me. Cost aside, I really like the way I set up my center console so I want to use it as is. Also, the CCP's are not great on beam width, so the plan is to build it off of the center console to not even take up an inch more of width. On a custom job I can set and build everything the way I think would work best for me. It will be bolted on so basically if I or anyone wants, it can be somewhat removable (although the anchor light, spreader light, spot light and horn will be mounted to it). I plan on reinforcing the base and lower walls of the center console with a few strips of fiberglass, basically where ever the mounts end up being. I dont know when I will start the pilothouse but I will post all my projects as they go
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So between last night and today I put a good dent in the demolition phase.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/Aquasport%20246ccp%201980/P9120707.jpg)
The coffin box came up no problem. The center console was barely held in place because the wood around the bottom had rotted so bad and the deck is so wet that not many screws were sound. The floor is DONE! Its like walking on a loaf of Wonder Bread. So far nothing unexpected.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/Aquasport%20246ccp%201980/P9110691.jpg)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/Aquasport%20246ccp%201980/P9110687.jpg)
I pulled up the wet pasta-like gas tank cover to find the gas tank tub filled almost to the top with water. I drilled a small hole in the tub towards the back to drain it out. Nasty stuff. Like a swamp. To my pleasure I found that it is not the original gas tank however the label was badly eroded so I could not get data on it. I am in the process of draining the tank. I believe it to be about 100 gallons and the gauge says its about half filled. I paid particular attention to the first 6 gallons siphoned. I used an old school almost clear 6 gallon gas tank so I could shine a light behind to see what I have. The fuel is old... the boat hasnt been in the water in at least 2 years. Out of the first 6 gallons there seemed to only be about less than a gallon of water that settled to the bottom. Every next tank had no water in it. I am hoping that after removal and a through cleaning that I do not find any erosion or reasons to need to replace the tank.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/Aquasport%20246ccp%201980/P9110703.jpg)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/Aquasport%20246ccp%201980/P9110696.jpg)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/Aquasport%20246ccp%201980/P9110700.jpg)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/Aquasport%20246ccp%201980/P9120705.jpg)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/Aquasport%20246ccp%201980/P9120720.jpg)
As you can see, the gas tank cover is DONE. It was competely soaked. I never saw wood the consistency of rice pudding. The great thing was that most of it came right off. I got about 2/3's of it off in a few minutes without any tools. I will recore the cover and make it like new
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/Aquasport%20246ccp%201980/P9120724.jpg)
Wiring is all out ans sorted based on wether it is going to be reused or not. ONLY marine grade, tinned wire is going back in
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/Aquasport%20246ccp%201980/P9120725.jpg)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/Aquasport%20246ccp%201980/P9120726.jpg)
Here is the motor. It was on the boat in pieces. Alot of fun to get it out without machinery especially the powerhead. it is a 1990 Evinrude 225 and she will get the full restoration treatment.
Next step is to start removing the floor, foam and transom.
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Congats on your new purchase, I like the pilot house idea. We don't see many in FL but I would love one in the winter it sure would make it more comfortable out there some days. I think overbuilding with the 3/4 ply is the right call. All the local builders around me use 3/4 if they are not doing composite. Always better to overbuild than under build in my opinion. Good luck with the project I look forward to following it.
Capt Matt
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Re: Pilothouse
While you are doing all this work, consider this. While building your pilothouse, consider including supports in the top for side curtains.
In S. Florida, the ttop enclosure i have on my 250CCP is adequate to keep the cold winter wind (wind chill) (dont laugh) and most of the spray off me while at the helm.
Up there, if you had some roll down side curtains for bad weather it would increase your comfort level a lot. If you were more hardcore, you could add a drop curtain in the back for those really cool days. I know...I know canvas is expensive. But, with a pilothouse, the side curtains should be relatively inexpensive. You can always add the rear drop curtain at a later date if you need it.
My 3 sided enclosure is worth its weight in beer, even here in South Florida but, there have been times i have wished i had some side curtains to keep me dry.
Also, My fuel tank is 120 Gallons.
Good boat porn so far
(http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc447/docreed4949/TTOP.jpg)
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Thanks for the great suggestions and feedback Docreed. Wow, 120 gals! Jeez my 200CCP had a 50 gal tank. I guess the only way I will know the volume is if i measure it. Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the side and rear curtains and yes, that has been in the plan as well. I wont have more to share on this until I get the pilothouse started, but im thinking of making removable frames out of square aluminum, skinned in canvas that will bolt to the pilothouse and swing open and affix to the gunnels to really protect the crew. Its not so much raw temperature im avoiding as much as it is the november/december spray on a choppy day going into the wind. It can soak you before you even drop a line making for a miserable day.
Why not just drop down canvas alone? Problem is the width of the center console and getting out of the enclosure. with fixed sided curtains, If I leave the pedestal seats I would have to squeeze between the seats to get away from the helm because the curtains would be right against the outside of them. If I leave the flip back seat its actually worse because then I have no way to get out. A vertically hinged type curtain that doubles as a spray deflector or a pocket/sliding door seem the only options. I dont really want to give up the width for a sliding door (im losing a few inches of width left and right of the console as it is moving the CC further forward into the bend of the bow), so a fall/winter/early spring bolt on hinged frame may be the ticket. Nothing works out super great to close off the other 3 sides. Im probably not going to fully commit to it until after I have used the pilothouse a while.
Heres an illustration of what I am thinking of at this time:
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/Aquasport%20246ccp%201980/Photograph2.jpg)
On another note, here is what I have planned for the stern
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/Aquasport%20246ccp%201980/Photograph.jpg)
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I got a quote today from Overtons.com for the Greenwood XL plywood. its about $65 a sheet. For 6 sheets it comes to about $389 and $153 to ship it to Long Island NY, for a total of about $542. Just as a reference because regions of the U.S. differ, my local lumber yard wants about $85 a sheet for basic 3/4 marine ply which is $510. Its a total no branier as far as costs go to use the Greenwood XL. Thanks for the input guys but im going 3/4. I will save some weight by using the smaller coffin box and center console. Also, once I get rid of the 3 or 4 hundred pounds of wet foam and wood onder the deck, a little thicker wood wont hurt
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Koz, my plan was(and still is unless I go coosa or nyloboard) to use the Greeenwood XL as well. Look up overton's coupons. There is a code right now for 15% off. Comes out to $55 or so(I am looking at 6 sheets as well). A month ago they had a code for 20% off, too bad my priority was a new gas tank at the time. I spoke with the folks at Greenwood and the gentleman verified all that you read about the panels. They are used by a large number of manufacturers and have a lifetime(with some fine print) warranty. This warranty does not apply to consumer installed panels though. It is supposed to be a great product.
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Since you've decided on 3/4...Check out the 3/4 AC fir. Very dry, no voids. Just like marine ply, but not mahogany or its derivatives. Hard to find...but if in stock in your area....no shipping charges.
All of the Carolina builders, if they use wood...prefer AC fir on new construction vs marine ply. Drier to start, and its glass/resin encapsulated anyhow.
If interested, you should be able to find it at a good local specialty house/lumberyard :thumright:
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Thanks Gran I appreciate the info.
Wannabe, thanks for the coupon idea. I googled Overton coupons and I found a few for free shipping but I doubt that would work on shipping of this nature. I did see a few for 20% off $300 purchase which would be nice being the woman at Overtons said I would have to pay New York tax of 8.65% for some reason. Well its going to be a while before I can order it anyway so I have to hang tight till the money goes up and the bills go down.
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Let me know when you are going to order if you have a hard time finding the discount codes. The one that works now is V6WEL27 for 15%. I'm keeping tabs on it, unsure when it expires. You might also check discount codes for Gander Mountain, it is an associated with Overton's and sometimes has different discounts.
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I took out the gas tank. No surprises. Thank goodness that it is not the original foamed-in tank that takes forever to dig out. Tank needs to be pressure washed and checked for corrosion. There is one spot I found that is a bit deep but not all the way through. If it is the worst thing I find then I will use this tank for a while. Optimally I would like a new tank but 1/4 shorter in length to move the weight forward. I dont need a 125 gallons plus I would like to offset some weight off the stern being I am going to install a motor bracket. A shorter tank would sit the fuel weight a few feet forward. I will be relocating the batteries under the center console so that will move some of the weight forward.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/Aquasport%20246ccp%201980/P9190746.jpg)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/Aquasport%20246ccp%201980/P9190741.jpg)
tough to see but here are a few spots of corrosion pitting. They were near the aft strap and not all the way through. The new position of the center console will be forward of the gas tank cover so changing out the tank will no longer involve pulling up the center console.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/Aquasport%20246ccp%201980/P9190744.jpg)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/Aquasport%20246ccp%201980/P9190743.jpg)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/Aquasport%20246ccp%201980/P9190742.jpg)
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Congrats on the new ride Koz! Looks like she has great potential! Can't wait to see her come back to life. I am leaning on having my transom enclosed and going with a bracket as well. Will most likely have mine done in January or February. Looking forward to seeing yours.
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Hello John,
Thanks for the well wishes. Unlike my 200CCP which has a usable and functional transom/splashwell, the 246's splashwell is massive and seems quite useless. I looked it up and your 222 seems to be similar. A closed off transom and a bracket seem to make sense and add a ton of space. Im not sure when im going to get to it. Finances will dictate the rate of this project. If your talking Jan-feb then we'll be seeing yours first. stay tuned!
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You are right Koz. Our splashwells are identical. As you pointed out, much more deck area could be gained by removing it and closing in the transom. My transom is wet, and will need attention soon anyway. It would most likely hold out for several more years, but after seeing your post I have the "itch" to go ahead and close it in.
That 246 looks to be in good shape. Looking forward to seeing your work with her. You will have the "flagship" of the CCP's :thumright:
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Optimally I would like a new tank but 1/4 shorter in length to move the weight forward. I dont need a 125 gallons plus I would like to offset some weight off the stern being I am going to install a motor bracket.
First KK congratulations on the find :salut: but try not to forget the Aqua mantra....
You can put 5 gals. in a 125 gal. tank but not the other way around. Don't let your personal knowledge of your boating needs and style get in the way of the chance that someday you may want to cross the Atlantic, solo. :roll: Don't forget that at about $10 a gal. you'll never find a cheaper price to store air (including water vapor). :mrgreen:
Lastly, remember nothing kills the resale of a 32 year old, cult following brand hull faster than a new fuel tank that is not as big as the original. Think about your recent purchase. If it had a 90 gal. three year old tank instead if the original (??) would you have even considered looking at the craft much less buying it? :wink:
All kidding (?) aside, you are right about the transom. It robs you of valuable fishing space. I always wanted (never have) to close in the transom. I did move the batteries forward and the 222 seemed to handle (and steer) with no additional problems. Keep the progress pics coming. :thumleft:
Good luck.
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Excellent point on future resale value and marketability. Nice ride Koz!
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First KK congratulations on the find :salut: but try not to forget the Aqua mantra....
You can put 5 gals. in a 125 gal. tank but not the other way around. Don't let your personal knowledge of your boating needs and style get in the way of the chance that someday you may want to cross the Atlantic, solo. :roll: Don't forget that at about $10 a gal. you'll never find a cheaper price to store air (including water vapor). :mrgreen:
Lastly, remember nothing kills the resale of a 32 year old, cult following brand hull faster than a new fuel tank that is not as big as the original. Think about your recent purchase. If it had a 90 gal. three year old tank instead if the original (??) would you have even considered looking at the craft much less buying it? :wink:
Just my $0.02-
You can always put just 35gal. in a 50gal. tank. The extra fuel is always nice to have when you want it. I would never want to limit my range because you never know when that might limit how many fish you catch, or worse... Besides, I always feel like I don't have quite enough gas as it is : )
:lol: :lol:
Hey, I still stand by my comments there. :thumright: That's funny stuff, but I think the difference between a 90gal vs. 120gal is a little less limiting than 35gal vs. 50gal. Lets keep it in context guys :bounce:
you'll never find a cheaper price to store air (including water vapor). :mrgreen:
Hey, I thought we decided that since Pascoe thinks that's impossible, then that's something we never need to worry about :scratch:
:wink:
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KK,
The pilothouse is an excellent idea for your neck of the woods. Funny, when you posted the pic of your rendering, I said, "Damn, that looks like a Pacific PH model!" Yeah, you are dead on as far as cost, we installed that same model on a government boat at Proline a few years ago, our cost was around $5500, and the damn thing was a piece of chit, if you ask me!
When you get around to the canvas (curtains), and you don't have a particular canvas guy in mind, I can put you in touch with the guy that was doing BlackfinMike's 29 Blackfin when I was up there last year. Excellent work, he normally does most of his jobs out in the Hamptons ($$$), but Mike lives in Dix Hills.
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If you need a good canvas guy try True Blue Canvas in Lindenhurst he does great work and has good prices.
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If you need a good canvas guy try True Blue Canvas in Lindenhurst he does great work and has good prices.
DT, what's up, bud? How's the striper fishing?
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If you need a good canvas guy try True Blue Canvas in Lindenhurst he does great work and has good prices.
DT, what's up, bud? How's the striper fishing?
Hi Bob hope everything is well with you.The fall stripers are just starting and the Black fish starts Oct 1st hoping to get some good trips in before I close up for the winter and go back into manitenance mode.Had a pretty good summer.I see you have been keeping busy with work. Enjoy and talk to you soon.
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Koz,
I would have to agree with Capt. Bob about your tank capacity. When I replaced mine in the 200 CCP, I stepped down to a 55 gallon tank versus the original 73 gallon. I often regretted doing that and wish I would have had the extra fuel capacity.
You have an offshore machine with that tank. Just my 2 cents but I would consider keeping the tank original in size.
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Awesome, awesome comments and information. Thank you all again I really appreciate the brainstorming. First off I hear all of you about the fuel capacity and I agree on the point that more is better. I am not worried about the cost savings of a smaller tank nor am I thinking I have to fill it up every time. My thoughts were strictly on center of gravity. A bracket disrupts the center of gravity by hanging the motor back another 2 feet. I figured by shortening the tank by a foot or so would counter the weight distribution a bit. I dont know if going down to 90 or 100 gallons is going to kill resale, and im not sure if im even concerned or care about resale. I think a hardcore, multiday trip fisherman is going to want a cabin of some sort in case all hell breaks loose weather wise. Im not saying its impossible but I dont think a center console is going to be a first choice. 100 gallons is still a hell of alot of fuel to burn in 24 to 48 hours. And besides, a tank is around $600, when (and if) im ready to sell I can make good on it if its a deal breaker. This boat is NOT going to pass title anytime soon. There really isnt anything out there that I like better. Also, there is a fairly good chance that tank is going back in. I have to clean it up and see what she looks like. Ill probably run 5 lbs of pressure through it as well and see if it holds
Resale and overall fuel quantity aside, do I have even half a point about shortening the tank to 100 gals from the stern to compensate for the weight distribution of a bracket? Thats pretty much my main concern. Also, I will be adding a bit of fiberglass goodies to the transom as part of closing it off so thats going to be added weight too. Mathematically to go from 125 to 100 is a 20% decrease which brings me from 87 inches to 69.6 inches. Is moving the tank up 17 inches going to offset the weight of the bracket or am I just making myself nuts over this?
Next, canvas. thanks guys for the referrals but my brother does reupholstery and has the skills and machinery to crank out whatever soft goods I will need.
SeaBob.... Holy cr@p! $5,500??? I heard Pacific Pilothouse were expensive but thats more than this entire project will cost. My rendering is similar to theirs but im basically just following the lines of the center console. speaking of costs, I got a quote from American Marine Products for 3 windows - the front and the two sides. The front had a section that tilted out and the two sides were fixed. They were white powercoated aluminum frames with tempered glass. Now, I am not knocking their product because I have never seen it, but it was around $1,100 for the front and $850 for each of the sides! They would have been awesome for the project but thats just too rich for me. Im going with a basic rubber channel moulding which will make the windows fixed. I am leaning towards glass but I havent gotten a price yet. I dont like plexiglass especially for the front window. I could be swayed on the sides but we'll see.
Also seabob, yes, moving the batteries under the center console to me is the way to go with the CCP's. I did that to my 200 before I even put her in the water.
I just finished putting the 246 on blocks and getting the trailer out from under her. I hate blocking boats. It freaks me out. Its like playing Jenga with a 2600lb piece. Not a calm, cool, easy night. The 200CCP is going on the 246's trailer and Im selling the 200's trailer because I need the money and space. Ironically enough the trailer for the 200 is a Seneca trailer which also was made in Hialeah Fl. Nice matching pair and a great trailer. Too bad its too short. The 246's trailer is a rusty old crappy Shoreline that needs almost everything. Its 2 am im going bed! Thanks again all
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KK,
My comments on the fuel tank were strictly satirical (as both Jessie and Scott know).
They are also just my opinion and mine alone. 8)
You seem to have a handle on the use of the boat and as such, sizing the tank to suite you works fine. That's my whole point.
As far as weight distribution, remember that it's constantly changing as you burn fuel. Moving a couple of guys forward will cause the weight to change also so I personally would not stress on this point. Trim tabs (if you don't have those(?)) will help to overcome the shifted weight while underway.
Looking back at my bracketed CCP, it suffered with the open transom in a following sea. That was another reason I wanted to enclose the transom. I offset the weight a little by moving the two batteries from their stern mount to under the console. Handling never seemed compromised by the bracket and it was the cats meow for diving, which was how the boat was set up.
I don't think you're traveling uncharted waters with these mods.
Have fun, spend some money and help the economy at the same time. :thumleft:
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CaptBob,
No need to apologize. I appreciate all the comments and conversation. Yes, I am transplanting the trim tabs from the 200. Thanks for your feedback on the bracket. My experience is limited to my soaked-foam 200CCP which is a bit heavy in the stern so im a bit sensitive to trying to figure out the correct balance. Like you said its like a guy or two moving up and down the boat.
Its going to be a cool stern when its done. Ive been prototyping my fresh water sink. I didnt want the hassles of a fresh water storage tank and electric pump so im going to experement with a 3 gallon gardening pump sprayer! True, it will not be enough pressure to wash the deck down but all I want it for is to rinse the bait slime off my hands and the salt off my tackle. For a small sink it should be perfect.
I did not have such a great day with the trailer today. Its a mess. its a Shore line roller trailer which I hate. I like bunks. Both of the crossmembers are rusted pretty bad but they can wait a bit. My concern for the day was the spring equalizers were broken. two trips to the spring shop, $200 later for a box of bolts, and an entire days work and im still maybe 1/2 done. Every bolt on every spring and ubolt had to be cut and/or heated to be removed. The spring carrier assembly had to come out, I had to cut and grind off all 6 spring carriers and weld in new ones because they were rusted beyond use. Then, I was messing around with the axles (which seem to be okay rust wise and externally) and I can tell one axle needs bearing attention. Great. But in any event, i should have it back together by noon tomorrow. Then its off to the dock to transplant the 200CCP on to this trailer so I can sell the 200's trailer.
More to come....
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Hello Aquasport friends,
Yes, long time no post as progress has been slow thanks to this wonderful economy.
Well here are the latest pictures from today. The 246CCP is all stripped and ready to start removal of the floor, the transom, and all the floatation foam. The 200CCP is also all stripped down of all the parts that are coming onto the 246CCP.
I wil be cutting many "donor" fiberglass pieces off of the 200CCP to close off the transom and for some other fishing goodie surprises for the 246. But, you will have to stay tuned until next spring as the goal for 2012 is to strip the bottom of paint, pull the floor/transom/ foam, and junk the 200CCP after I cut out what I need. I want one boat on one trailer for the winter. I may do some fiberglass forms over the winter and I will be sure to post them as it happens.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_7222.jpg)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_7220.jpg)
200CCP dismantled and ready to get cut up
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_7224.jpg)
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Hell of a hull. :thumright:
Good luck and keep posting.
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Koz -
Kinda peripheral comment, but I love your renderings. You do a great job representing what's in your head so we can intelligently discuss your project. Love the cleaning station you're planning for the transom. Have really appreciated the one I've used on my buddy's pursuit.
I plan to re-wire much of my '79 246 CCC sometime next spring/summer since it's all still original, so let's each keep record of measurements, mistakes, successes, research, etc. in case it saves either one of us some time, money, or headaches. :idea:
Also, I'm researching trailer specs for mine so I can pick one up this winter. What can you tell me about the overal length, axle strength, brakes vs. no brakes, weight, etc. of yours, and how did it trailer? What did you use for a tow vehicle?
Good luck w/your project!
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Georgie,
Thanks so much for reaching out and offering ideas. I totally plan on documenting and sharing on this site all my experiences with this project as a "pay it forward" for all that I have learned on here. There is no way I would even think to attempt what I plan on doing had it not been searching and learning from this site for hours. I am all for helping in any way that I can. I will have suggestions and I will have a ton of questions so both will be exchanged here.
As for trailering, it takes me about 20 minutes to get to the ramp so my trailering setup may not be as advanced as it should be, but that would have to be an individual and financial decision. In a perfect world, I would have a double axle trailer with brakes pulled by a body on frame 4x4. Currently have a shorelander 3"x3" square tube double axle roller trailer with no brakes. My buddy has an almost new venture aluminum trailer and he has had brake trouble. If I had to trailer further or faster I would want the security of a brake system, but finances dictate what I can possess. Brakes on saltwater trailers are a huge maintenance issue and fiancially I am not able to maintain a brake system so I had to rely on an oversized vehicle to do the work for me. I had a 1994 Range Rover which did the trick just fine, however I had to drive ultra conservative to compensate as best I could for increased braking distance. I have since sold the Rover which is fine while I am boatless. I expect to replace it with a Trailblazer or a Land Rover Discovery as I need a trailer again. As for a "must have", I am sold on either axle being enough to tow the whole boat's weight. I have a pair of 3500lb axles for what is about 3100lbs of boat. The actual cost for one axle strength to the next is marginal. I have lost a bearing on the road and mathematically I was capable of getting home and did just fine.
I also find that some trailers are not balanced correctly. I personally feel that the tongue should weigh about 200-300 lbs, and if not, the boat can be shifted forward or backwards by moving the winch post forward or backwards, or by moving the axle assembly forward or backwards. I actually like to start by moving the axle's forward to shorten the wheelbase which makes turning and backing in to my driveway easier by shortening the wheelbase. Its like playing see-saw with the boat until it gives you the desired tongue weight. Again, its my experience and opinion, im not sure if there is a more documented rule.
As for wiring, I am a big fan of slipping on a tube of adhesive lined heat shrink tubing, crimping a jacketless crimp on, soldering the crimp, then shrinking the tubing on until the adhesive oozes out creating a sealed, watertight seal. The crimps alone with the cheap plastic shield have questionable holding power if not applied perfectly and the plastic shield is crap. Its time consuming but so it chasing electrical issues years later or even worse, having something crap out at a really bad time when you are out there and now in trouble because of a failure. I only used tinned copper marine grade wiring and am a fan of the blue seas blade type fuse block with the negative ground bus. The bladed type are color coded which in a bad spot can make it much easier to change a fuse, plus you can change them with needle nose pliers which is usually found on most fishing boats. I find that block works well for me, and if you need more fuses you can add as many as you like. In fact, on my buddies 24ft Grady walk around, I put a 12 fuse block under his helm and a 6 fuse block up in the electronic box to handle what was closer to it. Now I only had to snake one set of pos and neg through the hard top piping instead of many wires. I am not a fan of the fuses on the dash panels as they take up space and are more exposed to the elements.
More to come!!!!
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November 2012
I finally got around to cutting out the donor pieces I needed out of the 200CCP and gertting the hull down to the dump. Definitely a bittersweet day as she was a good boat. However I am looking forward and very excited about creeping along on the 246 project!
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9618_zps6a67c7b3.jpg)
Here is the 200CCP next to the 246 just before I rolled her out of there for good.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9470_zps4cb5b88d.jpg)
This is the panel in the gunnel along the rod holders....
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9471_zps04b17e77.jpg)
It will be the perfect filler panel to close off the transom of the 246 with. I plan on pouring a transom 2 inches thick a few inches past the highest mounting bolt of the engine bracket, then 1 inch to the top where structure isnt as vital. I also want to tie the stringers into the transom somehow as now they really arent.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9476a_zpsc9b1ca25.jpg)
Here is the port storage bin with the drain bib cut out of the 200 which I plan to install (along with the starbord one) onto the 246 as a custom transom bait cutting and storage station. It may be hard to visualize but it will be obvious as the progest progresses.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9482_zps68cc9c63.jpg)
Another donor piece which will be used as....
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9483a_zps65d81fcc.jpg)
.... a toe relief somewhere along the transom station.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9625a_zps11e526ea.jpg)
This discovery came as a surprise to me and im glad i saw it before it was too late on the 246. I didnt realize that the plywood does not come all the way to the gunnel. I was surprised to see a gap. I could have cut the 246 too close to the gunnel and created an issue for myself. I plan on cutting all the way through the floor about 3.5 inches out, then cutting the top skin about 1.5 inched out and removing the plywood, leaving me a nice original fiberglass lip to lay the new plywood on. I am also toying with the idea of doing the same as mentioned above, except laying the new floor on top of everything tight to the gunnel, in effect raising the floor about 3/4 of an inch. The Thought behind this would be to futher prevent water from coming back onto the deck through the side thru hull drains. Seems the CCP's sit low in the water and with the added leverage weight of a bracket im afraid the thru hulls will be even closer to the water line. I know that water weight in the foam is a weight issue, but I was surprised to see that my 200 didnt have all the cavities filled with wet floatation foam. I definitely had saturated foam around the gas tank. I also drilled test holes in the stringers to find that those were wet too. So am i to assume that the weight of the wet foam in the gas tank well and the stringers was enought to lower my through hulls right to the water line to were I would get water coming in when I stood in either of the rear corners? I have not had the 246 in the water at all so I cannot gauge where it sits, but the scum line on the bottom paint shows the water line was close to the thru hulls. In fact the bottom paint is over the rear thru hull (not that that is necessarily an indication of water line). I may have to cut drains in the transom based on my design so by the angle and position it will actually have those holes closer to the water line than the side thru hulls. So Please chime in on if raising the floor 3/4 of an inch is a worthy idea or not. It will be more finish and fillet work to make it look right but I wont be happy if im fishing off the transom and my boots are taking on water... like on my 200.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9627_zps1099704d.jpg)
200 CCP. under the floor, port side, looking from the stern to bow. The stringer is on the right. No floatation foam. Im going to foam my 246. Im toying with cutting closed cell foam block and laying a huge piece in for floatation. I figure if the foam isnt poured but pieces laid in, it will allow water to drain under the pieces and never saturate. Am I on to something that makes sense or will it not work? I definitely want to fill the hull with floatation as I want to make it near impossible for her to sink completely. Dont want to put my loved ones in any additional danger.
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Wow - big time mods - sounds cool though. :thumright:
Does the 246 not have the corner storage already? How do you plan to fit in the ones cut from the 200?
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Increasing the distance (elevation) between the thru hull drain and the deck drain is good.
Raising the deck is one way. You lose a little of the deck to top of gunnel distance but the CCP has a lot to begin with so it really isn't a deal breaker. If it were me, raising the deck and holding the position of the thru hull drain would be the route I'd take.
Good luck.
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Raising the deck 3/4 inch, you will never notice it, my 19-6 was done that way and you would have to measure it to see it..
As far as the closed cell foam block, just make sure that it won't absorb water after you cut it, if it does you will need to seal it somehow :salut:
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Go with closed cell foam block outboard of the stringers...let it float. Sound deadening (removes hull slap) and of course positive flotation. Easy to install, doesn't stick, and won't hinder drainage.
Referencing the existing foam in the stringers. You'll remove a lot of weight and raise the waterline when the saturated foam and trapped water is removed, and the stringers are dried out.
Re-tab internally and externally...pour foam...glass the tops...done deal.
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thanks everyone. I appreciate the advise. Damn, nothing is simple! It will be a much quicker and cleaner finish to drop the floor into the recess and glass over it flush, but better functionality and a pain to fair and finish in raising it. Ughh. Another benefit in building up the height difference in the stringers is I would have to add and glass plywood to the top of the stringer which will give killer screw and mounting bite to anything I am mounting on the deck (center console, t-top or pilot house).
Rick, my 1979 246 CCP did not have the similar transom boxes as the ones I cut out of the 200. Is has this wide open, double motor wide cut with a tremendous and useless splashwell. I have seen pics of larger CCp's (222's or 246's?) with the same transom boxes and I wish mine had that but it doesnt.
Thanks gman, yes, i heard when you cut some foams it opens pores which should be sealed. My first thought is the "blue" foam that I see used for floating docks. Im not sure if thats the way to go, material or weight wise. I will have to research better as the time comes closer. Through my limited experience I am pretty comfortable with the observation that poured expandible foam is eventually going to saturate. Hypothetically some loose but well fitted foam sections held in place from rattling with a few dollups of 5200 would do the trick of draining off water and holding her up if need be, God forbid.
All and all I am concerned with the amount of weight I am adding to the boat, with the bulk of it at the transom. Im already adding 150-200 lbs to the last 2 feet of the boat with closing the transom, the transom bracket, the bait and storage station, and bracing the stringers to the transom. One weight offset is the twin 27 series batteries are going under the center console but the pilot house will probably add 60-90 pounds as well. I will probably never have more than 4 fisherman or 6 people on the boat but I dont want to throw her off right from the start. I lost a few pounds going from the 6ft coffin box it came with to the 4 ft one i will be using from the 200.
I also wonder about the transom itself as I am removing the plywood and replacing it with sea cast (which is lighter than finished glass ply per sq inch by about 1/3 i read) I will have the whole transom closed but the lower half will be 2 inch and above the bracket will be one inch. I may investigate if going to 1.5 inches will be strong enough, which I suspect it will (the 2 inch was my idea). Im hoping the seacast substitution will wash the weight difference of closing off the transom. I have toyed with having the new tank made 20% shorter (down to about 100 gals) and mounting it forward to shift weight forward a bit to offset. I am not worried about fuel use as the furthest i will go is 8-10 miles off shore. Im going to try to push the boat with a 150, if that sucks then Ill go to a 225, so 100 gals is more than going to cover the 3rd rule. Im looking for 20-25 mph to plane and if I can get 32 top ill be happy with that. Im fishing not racing. The 150 is a bit less thirsty so im going to give that a shot first. Im not a big fan of the loopers and they have always been tempermental to me on my rebuilds. I have both a early 90's crossflow 150 and looper 225 that have good compression and are ready for a "soft" restoration (everything soft replaced but not cracking the block open). Alot of calculations or a ton of money for trial and error to get her right I guess.
Speaking of gas tanks, im also going to ask the tank builders to give me two outflow lines, and try to stagger the fuel pick up ends to effective give me a 10 gallon reserve. I will use a 3 way fuel petcock valve (off, tank 1 and tank 2), keep it on the "shorter" pickup first. When I run out of gas, I can switch to the longer pickup and know I have 10 gals to get home.... similar to motorcycles. To try and read a bouncing fuel guage is useless and i dont really want to invest in, or wire in fuel monitoring equiptment. Simple and basic... run out of fuel switch to line 2 for 10 or so gallons. If thats not good enough, I NEVER hit with water without Seatow or boat US, NEVER.
For now im stuck until april or so for the weather to break. Plus I have to put in some overtime to fund the renovation so I am not so upset about the time span.
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Rick, to answer your question directly (as I got on a tangent with my last reply) I had hoped that the cap from the 200 would just drop in and Bolt on to the 246 but the 200 has a 90 degree corner and the 246 has a greater than 90 degree corner. I'm not really sure. It may end up being an entire single custom bait station instead of integrating the pieces but I most definitely want it to look factory. I won't have the answer until the floor and transom are in and I'm ready to make the piece. I have little fiberglass experience but im ready to take it to a professional level by making negative molds of whatever it is I will make, gel coating first and then fiberglassing to create professional looking pieces. I look forward to the challenge and you tube has been a blessing with videos on making stuff out of molds. Famous last words but I don't really think it will be too hard. The hardest part is to figure out what I want to make and create the negative mold of it. The gel coat and glass are the easier part. I want to make flush in floor hatches that drain to thru hulls as well. The plastic bolt on ones are too flimsy to walk on often (and expensive!). It should be interesting!
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The molds would be a good winter project. Be sure to take lots of pics because I would like to do the same thing for hatches. I think it is actually pretty easy to make these molds but you're taking it to the next level gelcoating first and such. Above the floor of my boat will be all gelcoat so I'm all ears on this - can you start the molds now :lol:
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Rick,
spend some time on You Tube and you will see the beauty in gel coating first. They will not be boat items necessarily but you can apply the idea. A fiberglass piece is a fiberglass piece. Its actually how boats are made. thats the only way to get that super smooth factory finish. Seems a helll of a lot easier too as there is little to no finish sanding. You pop the thing out of the mold 99% finished. I hate sanding gelcoat for a finished look.
You are absolutely right that it will be a great winter project... however taking many things into account its going to take some time. Plus I need the floor and transom in first before I can lay out what i need for the tramsom station. Winters suck on Long Island. Althought I have an attached garage, its about 50 degrees in there (or colder) right now which will not allow glass to set. Sure I can heat it but it would take alot to get it and keep it in the 60's. It also means that all the cutting and sanding would have to be done with the garage door shut which would create a dust storm nightmare for everything in there. Im stuck until spring.
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That sucks. Lots of planning only then :(
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Lots of planning, not a bad thing :thumright:
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Koz, PM sent.
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Blue, reply sent. Let me know if you need anything else
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Thanks for the reply Koz! Second PM sent.
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Spring on Long Island is finally showing some warmer weather and with that it is time to get working on the 246. I started to clean out the hull of all the winter junk in preparation of getting that floor and transom up and out finally. With the clean out came a culling, sorting and storing of the contents so my garage and driveway could stay passible.
As planned, I saved pieces of the first and greatest boat I have ever had so far, my 1978 200 CCP, to create a lasting memorial in dedication or her service and sacrifice to the 246 CCP project.
I may now have the coolest man cave memorial rod holder known to mankind!
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_4144.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_4144.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_4145.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_4145.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_4146.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_4146.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_4148.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_4148.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_4149.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_4149.jpg.html)
CCP owners of older models know exactly what they are looking at. For the rest of you, the top and bottom teak are the actual gunnel toppers (not sure what they are officially called) from the 200CCP, the rod holder are the actual rod holders from the 200CCP, and the "Captain Koz" and Aquasport emblem are as they were on the boat as that is a cut out of the port side of the actual boat.
She will live on forever!
More to come on the 246 CCP Captain Koz II project as it happens!
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Finally got the sawzall buzzing a bit on the stern side. I started to remove the transom area as needed as well as the splash tub which will be re used. The boat had an thru hull transducer which I know are stupid expensive, but im not even sure if the thing works nor do I want a 2-3" appendage hanging from the hull of the boat so out it went. Transom mounted broadband sonar is all I need. IF you havent seen the new sonar technology, check it out. It is amazing! Someone also screwed the float switch right into the hull! I thought it was going to be a repair until I saw just how thick the hull is when I removed the thru hull transducer. I am not getting any ideas... I will glass in a piece of starbord to hold the bilge pump and switch in place.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_4173.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_4173.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_4176.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_4176.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_4178.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_4178.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_4189.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_4189.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_4193.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_4193.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_4196.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_4196.jpg.html)
I am planning in re installing the livewell tub right up against the gas tank tub and leaving a 9 inch void between the hull and the other side of the livewell tub for a bilge area. The tub will be cut down to fit under a custom made flush in floor hatch. The photo uses original pieces to illustrate the idea but they will not be used in that fashion.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_4199.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_4199.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_4201.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_4201.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_4207.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_4207.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_4208.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_4208.jpg.html)
This is kind of where I am heading with the stern. I may end up with 4 in floor drains. I would love the rear two to drain right out the tansom but I have no idea where my waterline is going to be after the weight shifts of all the relocations this project is going to make
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_4217.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_4217.jpg.html)
I drew the plans of how I want to attempt to make the molds for the in floor hatches. Im sure I have said it and I will say it again, I am NOT a auto body or fiberglass guy by trade so I am tackling this strictly as a novice who watched ALOT of YouTube videos. I will keep trying until I get it right and then I will share it with all of you. These are the dimensions of the cross section of the in floor hatch with a gutter that will be plumbed to drain out a thru hull. If your mildly confused its okay as I am a bit too! I will share my trial and error with you all. These are the dimensions I am starting with. The whole idea was to simplify the cross section, make an 8 ft run of it, and cut it on a chop saw like a door molding or a picture frame,and assemble it in the dimension thats needed. The only thing I have to work on is the clearing for the drain. I think I will get going with a trial prototype in the next 30 days or so.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_4211.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_4211.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_4212.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_4212.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_4213.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_4213.jpg.html)
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What is this? Why is there rolled up, un-resined woven roving glassed to the underside of the cap? Was this some sort of grab handle to remove the cap from the mold?
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_4183.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_4183.jpg.html)
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A bit more progress. I may need to change my topic to "rebulid on a budget". No, I havent cut out the floor yet... anyyyyyy day now is what I keep telling myself. Luckily i have been busy because busy will bring me the cash I need to finish this thing. Soon, vwey soon.
So im on good ol' Craigslist and I see a boat for sale with a "stainless Marine" bracket on it. I put the name in quotes because that is the name of the company, the bracket is Aluminum. So long story short, I buy the boat, motor and trailer, and in 4 days I sold the motor for what I paid for EVERYTHING. The hull is worthless and will be junked. I still have to sell the trailer which will cover my Sea Tow and the taxes and registration for the boat. I had the boat in the water to water test the Merc for the buyer so i had to get Sea Tow and register the boat. I wish I could have kept the Merc as it ran amazing, but I cant spend that kind of cash at the moment. So I am thrilled to be one step closer by not having to write a $1000+ check for a bracket. Free sounds like a great price. Also. I now have an operational hull to water test the 1989 150 Evinrude that have on deck to refurbish, and when that sells I will use that money to order the Seacast for my transom.
The bracket mounting holes pattern is critical to how I am going to rebuild the transom as I am going to use a few of those holes as thru bolts to hold everything together as I pour the seacast, as well as to brace the transom straight as it is a bit bowed out. I couldnt go forward on the transom without that bracket so im thrilled to have it. It will have to be re finished, but the inside was nice with no pitting. The bracket is in great shape. It is a 26 inch setback.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_5319.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_5319.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_5318.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_5318.jpg.html)
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Koz,
I had a full bracket/platform on my CCP. To help mount the bracket, I made a template of the mounting holes out of some flat stock in my shop. That took some doing on my part but for most DIYers it is quite an easy task. It paid off handsomely as I worked on the rigging myself with very little help. The template allowed me to "place the bracket" just where I wanted it without having to deal with the bulk.
Good luck. :thumleft:
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Thank you bob. Totally the plan to template the bracket as you described. I also have a complete evinrude tilt and trim assembly with the mounting brackets intact which I plan on adding to with plywood to create a template of exactly where the cavitation plate goes so I can mock up the exact placement without the actual motor in the way. If a 86-91 OMC 30 inch looper leg should become available I may go for it to bring the powerhead higher, otherwise I will just set up for the 25 inch. I have a pair of 25 inch loopers with decent compression on deck for a "soft goods" refurbishing (hoses, gaskets, seals, etc, everything but cracking the block apart). The 25 inch will have the bracket lower in the water than the 30 inch therefore greater flotation and weight offset, however greater potential for saltwater intrusion and corrosion from prevailing waves than the 30" so it's a debatable give and take. I can always install a manual jack plate on the 25 inch set up and install a 30. That's the best of both worlds I think. We see how it goes.
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I'd love to post with a quote, but for some reason, this site won't let me. The non-saturated glass on the underside of the deck is called a pull tab. Like Koz said, what they pull parts from molds with. The hull has them on the hull flange, then the flange is cut off after the part is pulled.
These days they use pieces of PVC pipe glassed in the appropriate places...
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I'd love to post with a quote, but for some reason, this site won't let me.
:scratch:
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I'd love to post with a quote, but for some reason, this site won't let me.
:scratch:
When I quote Koz's post from May 2 with the pic of the pull tab, I get this...
It was not possible to determine the dimensions of the image.
I figure since the pic was posted here, shouldn't the site know what size it is?
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Yup, something is going on. His pics are on photobucket - I get the same thing when I try too. Something has changed in the last few days. I'll get the IT guys to take a look at it. The new router might need to be tweeked.
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Thanks sea bob, I figured it was a pull tab but I wanted to make sure.
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Aug 1, 2013. Some indirect "research and development" progress. I wanted a fresh water sink to wash the fishing ick off of my lures and hands. I didnt want to deal with internal tanks and water pumps, I wanted it fairly simple. So I devised using a 2.5 gallon garden pump sprayer and a marine quality sprayer handle. I married the two with a gas line quick disconnect so I can remove, clean and service the sprayer as needed. Sure, it wont give me wash down pressure or capacity, but thats not what it is intended for. The spray pressure was surprisingly good and I get about 3 minutes of water which will be more than enough for a 4-8 hour fishing trip. The sprayer handle will be mounted similar to a sink faucet but it is also able to pull out and spray down the rest of the transom bait station. The tank will bemounted and hidden in the transom with top access through one of the 200CCP top mount doors which is going to be slavaged and glassed into the bait prep station. Im pretty happy with it.
I am inching along closer to actually starting to start making some forms and laying up glass, as well as within 2 months of pouring a transom. More to come!
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_5912.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_5912.jpg.html)
GIlmour 2.5 gallon pump sprayer (model 301P), marine quality spray handle (dont know the brand, has intermitent on and on positions), and the quick disconnect.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_5913.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_5913.jpg.html)
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FINNNNAAALLLYYY got to tearing up the floor. I started with one of those vibrating cutting tools which worked well for about 10 feet before the teeth of the wood blade dulled. I had the diamond grit one but that didnt do a thing. Very little dust but noisy. Went with old faithful... Makita 4 1/2 inch angle grinder with a metal cut off blade and made quick but dusty work of it. There was a slight drizzle so the hint of moisture kept the dust down.
I drew a line about 5 inches from the gunwales for the first cut. I didnt go super deep just yet but this is about how far out I will go to leave a good bottom lip for the new flooring to sit on. eventually I will trim back the upper deck layer to just where the plywood starts and sand the gelcoat back to the gunwale as a surface to tab to.
Wowzers was that plywood core SOAKED! Not only was it soaked, it was totally parquet. Small, half foot squares checker boarded in as the core. it came up like wet newpapers. It took me about an hour to do what I did in these pics.
I am super excited in a few ways in that this wet stuff is HEAVY! So changing out the floor will definitely have an affect on weight. Also, anyone that has any concern about strength... I think that debate just ended. Any solid ply should have many times the strength of this patchwork core.
One interesting new bit of information is that there was a floor under the floor where the coffin box goes. As you can see in the last pic there was an additional layer of flooring glassed in under the flooring in the space between the stringers in the coffin box area. I guess it didnt help much as that area seems to soften first for many. It got dark before I could really take a look at the stringers and the blige but ill see more tomorrow as hope to get the entire floor out.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_5956.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_5956.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_5957.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_5957.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_5963.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_5963.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_5967.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_5967.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_5976.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_5976.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_5973a.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_5973a.jpg.html)
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Coming along nicely Koz :thumright: I wonder how many of us have parquet floors :roll: No wonder some of these decks rotted so quickly :roll: They never had much support to begin with :roll: Talking about the factory taking a "shortcut" :roll:
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Totally John. I think I got a "lets stay in budget this month" model! lol. Even the transom isnt a full two sheets of 3/4 ply. It is only doubled up to cutout height. The sides above the transom are single layer 3/4, and multi piece as well! Thats crap, but not for too much longer!
My buddies Grady gas tank cover was the same way. One justification I heard was that the boards are set down in alternating grains to prevent warping. Sounds like a Washington D.C. justification to me. Ill take my chances with a full piece of douglas fir marine ply thank you!
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Boyyyy did I have fun today! I got most of the floor out, most of the transom out, and all the tubs out of the way. I still have to gut the foam out of the boat and the stringers as well as carefully cut back the upper floor layer to just were the plywood ends to prepare the lip for the new floor to sit on.
Looks like I got the end of the month run as my entire boat was scraps. Even the transom was 2 layers of 3/4 ply even with the cutout but not all the way to the gunnels, then it was a few pieces of single 3/4 scrap to finish it off. Disapointing quality but I am excited because I will make her better than she ever was!!!
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_5978.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_5978.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_5979.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_5979.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_5982.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_5982.jpg.html)
forget the hammer and chisel... I got out the big dog rotary jack hammer and made quick work of the rotted transom. It split fairly easily but they did fiberglass between the two layers of plywood which added an annoyingly strong layer. Note to builders... the wood was mulch but that middle layer saved the day.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_5984.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_5984.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_5988.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_5988.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_5990.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_5990.jpg.html)
got the gas tank tub up. I will clean up the edges and re install it for future use.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_5993.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_5993.jpg.html)
What a mess! Thank God my neighbors love me... im the guy with the snowblower!
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_5995.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_5995.jpg.html)
The transom plywood was SOAKED and parts of it were rotted mulch
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_5997.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_5997.jpg.html)
in this pic you can see on the transom near the starbord edge, where one piece of single ply was, then a second single piece below it, then you can see a diagnal line from the thru hull hole to the cutout near the blue grinder, from that line down and across was where it was 2 layers of 3/4.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6000.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6000.jpg.html)
I got most of the wood off of the transom with the jack hammer. All that is left is a thin wet coat of plywood that ill let dry and make quick work of with a sander. I cut the stringer back just a bit to be able to work and clean it out good. I am going with a 2 inch poured transom so I will need the room anyway. Once its done I will glass the stringer to the transom for more support.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6001.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6001.jpg.html)
The plywood did not go down past the drainplug. Was this by design or mistake?
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6004.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6004.jpg.html)
Mass carnage!
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6005.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6005.jpg.html)
Not bad for a days work. The stringers are in excellent condition with no delamination. The keel has a few holes in it. I could cut it open and fill it with Sea Cast but i think I will just run a fillet of 1708 over it and call it a day. I plan on painting the entire bilge with gel coat or bilge paint to aid in water drainage and prevent frost heaving. One thing I wish I would have done is measured the actual floor width. As you see in this picture, without the floor the gunwales are free to move back and forth a bit. I will have to glass a tie from the gunwale to the stringer to hold them in place before I lay the floor. I should have measured how far they were from the hull and cut spacers. Not a big deal but just something I would have done differently if I could do it over.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6010.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6010.jpg.html)
Transom is ready for final cleanup and sanding
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6011.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6011.jpg.html)
ALOTTTT of garbage. Its about 10 wet heavy bags. I will take them to the dump myself over a few runs. My garbage men would kill me!
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6012.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6012.jpg.html)
Alot of spare parts. Some of these are from my donor 200CCP.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6013.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6013.jpg.html)
Gas tank tub with the edges cut clean. I will taper the top edge and run the floor fiberglass just up to the edge of the inside drop. I want the new floor to look super clean and smooth. I also saved the cable channels in case I want to re use them. I see that many went with PVC but I was surprised as how heavy PVC is. I may try to reuse these somehow as they are super light.
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So what did I learn today?
My entire parquet floor was a/c 1/2 inch. So with that said, is it possible to replace the floor with 1/2 doug fir marine ply with a coat or two of 1.5 chopped strand on the bottom and 1708 plus 1.5 chopped strand on the top? Do they make a 5/8's? Im starting to doubt that I need to go a full 3/4. Seems like overkill for what I pulled out.
Also, the keel. Doesnt seem like anyone bothers with it. Im sure the core is mush but the roving looks good. Do I need to cut the top off and deal with the core or can I run a pass of 1708 over it and call it a day?
Also, the bilge area roving seems porus in some spots. It freezes here over the winter and I think one part of the keel may have a frost heave crack on the keel. Would it be wise to either gel coat or bilge paint the entire bilge area to seal all pores and aid in water runoff? And if thats a good idea, which product is best?
Lastly... gutting the stringers. I have spent way too much time thinking which cut makes for the strongest repair. I see many cut the tops off but I am skeptical that a few layers of glass are going to be strong enough to hold them back together at the cut lines. They are thick! Has anyone cut "windows" out of the sides and gutted the foam that way? I am really stressing over how to get the foam out without weakening the stringers.
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Koz...wow. That is some serious mess you're pulling out. But after all it is a '79....its 34 years old.
The rough stuff is over....time for the build :thumright:
The CCP's have massive stringers. Treat yours like any other rebuild....cut off the stringer tops tight to the former deck, dig out the mung and dry thoroughly. Re-foam, re-glass.
Deck: You're right. Half-inch well-encapsulated fir you're good to go. If you can spray chop all the better. My ride has sprayed chop in many places as a bed/substrate to roll out glass. It is not structural...just a light bedding surface for the next step, rolled glass. Roll the glass while the chop is wet.
Keel, and even the chines: While she's opened up...fix what you see. You can never have too much weight in this low, strategic area of any boat.
Bilge: Yep...brush, roll, or spray gelcoat. I'm not sure why more folks don't go with gelcoat on the entire rebuild. Doesn't scratch, doesn't wear. Keep it waxed, put a buffer on it every three years...and yep, you can muscle the buffer.....it will last forever with proper attention. Paint has its attributes. It is simpler, faster, easier, and you can spray high-build to fair before the final coats...and it looks great. But after ten years of active boating...break out the longboard, the filler, the paint and the gun.. and do it all again.
Gelcoat is a PITA for finish work (hullsides and interior) without a correct gun. But the benefits down the road are worth the extra work now IMHO.
If you go with gelcoat...forego epoxy.
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Gran,
Thank you as always for the great information. I do plan on getting a gel coat gun as I want to do the sole in gel coat as well. I don't want to use paint topside. The whole boat is gel coat that lasted this long. I like that you can repair Gelcoat fairly easily which alot of paints cannot be so easily touched up. Thanks again for chiming in and helping to clear my mind and tighten up the plan. More progress to come!
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Good on you! You've chosen a project that would intimidate most...but the good news is, you're not alone here :thumright:
Speaking of gel...here are a couple pics of a gelcoat rebuild from a while back
(http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j331/gran398/IMG_1317.jpg)
(http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j331/gran398/IMG_1304.jpg)
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Got to thinking about your stringer tops.
How about every two feet, cut a one foot section out. Number them...and after you dig out the foam, glass them back in.
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Koz, I might have missed it but were you able to determine if the foam in the stringers by the transom were wet? Point being is my transom was shot but the foam in my stringers were bone dry. The foam in the CCP stringers didn't seem to have the moisture problems as some of the other models.
My opinion would be that if you determine the foam is dry back at the transom, chances are they are dry the rest of the way forward if they are in good shape. If they are wet back by the transom, you could always dig out and work your way forward and you might find them dry once you work your way forward.
When the transom and rear deck was out of mine, I could have had him "beef" up the stringers but he said that the stringers were in great shape like it appears yours are. I guess while you are in there you could "beef" them up on the outside, but you might find that the foam is dry and removing it might not be necessary.
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Koz,
Check out how this guy cut his stringers to remove the foam.
http://forums.bateau2.com/viewtopic.php ... 3&start=10 (http://forums.bateau2.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=24373&start=10)
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CaptainKos II,I don't know if you have seen this or not.
if you have I apologize and I apologize if I'm not supposed to posts links.
http://www.promboats.com/blog/2012/01/0 ... l-transom/ (http://www.promboats.com/blog/2012/01/03/aquasport-full-transom/)
Jay
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Aquaman, blue, Gran and John,
Thank you again for sharing. I am definitely set on mastering gelcoat. I have a HVLP gun with a special 2.4 or 2.8 tip (one or the other cant remember exactly) that is proper for gelcoat. I am also going to purchase the cup type gel coat gun, but i suspect the cup type is not as smooth. I think the bilge will be a great place to practice spraying without wasting it. Who cares how it turns out in the bilge. Hopefully I will get the hang of spraying with either or both guns. What sucks is that when it sets up its all over so you have to make sure to mix it "cold" with less MEKP. The HVLP gun has to be disassembled and cleaned completely after every use and before it sets off. Ill figure it out.
Stringers.....
I started out the day a but sore after yesterday and I didnt intend on working on the boat. I figured, let me go out and measure on the stringers were everything lays out. Big mistake.
I measured everything off and marked it. I am glad I kept the sole skins as many of the visual references I was using to lay out the boat were based on what was there prior. I did measure everything out prior but it helped to confirm when some of the numbers seemed a bit off. The boat looks totally different without the floor obviously. To my disapointment, the mounting holed of base plate of the console are on the outer edge of the stringer with a few of them missing the stringer completely. This may be due in part to moving the console forward where the stringers start to taper inward. I will address this by building out a mounting surface on the outside of the stringers, as well as glassing in cross supports perpendicular to the stringers to give the front and rear edge of the console something to screw down to. I want to be able to pick the boat up by the console! I am also thinking about adding a few cross supports under the coffin box as I am putting serious consideration into going with 1/2 inch ply and the span under the coffin box is a bit wide. I may shore it up. I have to check if they carry or can get 5/8's marine fir which would probably be 6 layers ( 1/2 is 5 layers, 3/4 is 7 layers) which may be in the running. Based on the crap i pulled out of the boat, i think 3/4 is a bit much.
So the puddle of foam between the stringer and the gunwale caught my eye and I started to think about what it was going to take to pull up the foam. I started bringing out the tools and trying them out. This blue gardening tiller tool with spikes worked pretty good but the best was probably the narrow shovels. I would get under the else of the foam with the shovel and pop a chunk up. The exposed foam came up quite fast and was a bit wet on the bottom but noting too alarming.
I then got out the jack hammer and started to remove all those dollops of concrete-like material that was used to bed the deck to the stringers. some of it was also spilled on the bilge so the jack hammer made quck work of those.
I then started planning out the stringer cuts. The stringers were cast with various valleys in them that were used for various purposes such as the rigging tubes and the fuel lines. Some of them didnt make sense to me as im guessing they cast one set of stringers for all their models at the time. Well I have another issue in that I am moving around everything but the fuel tank tub, so those reliefs really make less sense and most will have to be moved or filled. I took particular exception to the oversized angled ones that the rigging tube ran through to the console. I would have filled in this depression to deck level anyway, so I figured this would be a good place to start with the first cut being I will glass here anyway.
As the son of a machinist/hoarder/collector Father, his house is filled with any and all tools that you could imagine. My game changing tool came in the form of a custom made, 4 foot long, 2 inch wide drill bit. Why he has it, who made it and for what is beyond me, but I am thankful! As you will see in the pics, I was able to drill long horizontal holes and then again through the foam fill holes, which swiss-cheezed the foam enough to be able to chip it out with narrow shovels. Then, I was able to use a fence post tamping bar through the pour holes to do further damage and to leverage the foam left and right to break it from its place.
So from the gas tank fill hose proximity, I have cleared all the way back to the transom, and almost all the way forward. I am about 4 feet from the bow which means I will probably have to cut one more opening. It wasnt fun at all but for the sake of 2 cut outs to clear the whole stringer ill take it.
The foam was far from mega soaked but it was a little wet. in my case im not sure if it was worth it but its too late now. Hopefully the port stringer is more wet to make me feel better.
I did not know that there is plywood glassed to the inside of the stringer along the middle of the boat. This plywood is fairly moist but there isnt much i am going to do about it as I am not going to cut it out. Im not sure why it is there, maybe as a backing so the gas tank straps have more bite? It wasnt glassed in very well at all, maybe one layer. In fact it is delaminating forward of the cutout.
I also have a pic or two of keel damage. I will have to address what to do with the keel as well.
Today was not fun. I am hurting a bit from yesterday and another day of sweating it out is going to have me grabbing for the Celebrex tonight! I should not do two days back to back of hard labor, however I am obsessed with getting this project along. More to come!
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6018.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6018.jpg.html)
some pourus roving on the keel
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6019.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6019.jpg.html)
As you can see from these two pics, there is some keeel damage that needs attention. I would guess that horizontal crack is from frost heaving.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6015-1.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6015-1.jpg.html)
This tool did okay with the foam.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6016.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6016.jpg.html)
This skinny shovel did great at getting under the corner of the foam and popping out a chunk.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6025-2.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6025-2.jpg.html)
I used the jack hammer to chip off the concrete-like bedding material that was on top of the stringers.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6031.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6031.jpg.html)
I maked out on the stringer about where everything will go. This also got me to see how I will have to modify the stringer cut outs to run all the hoses and wires to their new locations.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6027.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6027.jpg.html)
First cut... the relief where the rigging tube went. I planned on filling this relief in anyway so I figured it a great place to make a first cut. Started digging out the foam with the narrow shovel.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6041.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6041.jpg.html)
Now THATS a drill bit! About 4 ft long and about 2 inches wide. Custom welded and made. Why I have no idea!!! However, it is with this tool that I may have saved the need to make additional cuts in the stringers. I drilled through the existing foam pour holes as well as horizontal which made the foam easier to snap with a shovel. Still not easy or fun, but I will have the stringer cleared out on 2 cut outs.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6028.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6028.jpg.html)
drilling horizontal
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6032.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6032.jpg.html)
Swiss Cheese
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6021-1.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6021-1.jpg.html)
Drilling through the foam pour holes
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6042.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6042.jpg.html)
using the tamping bar to break the foam down further and push it towards the opening.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6040.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6040.jpg.html)
a ton of foam.... not as wet as I would have liked. Hopefully the port stringer is soaked to justify the effort.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6037.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6037.jpg.html)
cleared through to the transom. I have to do a final cleaning still
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6038.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6038.jpg.html)
Cleared within a few feet of the bow
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Does anyone know the volume of those stringers? How much foam do I need? I want to go with the 4 lb foam for added rigidity.
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Does anyone know the volume of those stringers? How much foam do I need? I want to go with the 4 lb foam for added rigidity.
Koz,
I'm not familiar with how foam volume is derived but the mixed product volume should be on the container. You can however, calculate the stringer volume yourself and get a good idea on how much foam you'll need. Here's how.
Looking at your last pic, measure the inside dimensions of the stringer. You'll have four (duh) measurements A, B, C, & D. Add those together and divide the sum by 2 (A+B+C+D)/2. That's a constant you'll use for the rest of the calculation (call it X).
Now subtract each measurement from "X". X-A, X-B, X-C and X-D. You now have four new measurements. E, F, G, and H.
Multiply these four numbers together and then take the square root of the product (call your new dimension Z).
Now, just measure the length of a stringer and multiply that dimension by Z. That will give you the volume (cubic area) of one stringer in the units that you measured (say inches).
It's easy math you can do with a calculator, though there was a time when we did square roots longhand. They call the stringers trapezoidal but because of the V in the hull bottom, they don't fit the true definition of a trapezoid. This formula served land surveyors for years calculating area (in the days before fancy calculators). It will get you real close.
Good luck
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Great work Koz :thumright: I know that the stringers in the CCP'S are massive, but that close up just shows how massive they really are :shock:
Looks like the rough part is close to being over :wink: Good job and keep the pictures coming :thumright:
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:shock: :shock: :shock: Captain Bob.... I read your email before my morning cup of coffee and almost shorted out! Thanks for the detailed explaination. I got 113.75 for "Z" and I timed it by 18 ft, coming a few feet short of the bow to compensate for the reduction in volume at the bow. I got 14.21 cubic feet. With both stringers at 4 lb foam at 58 lbs a cu ft boyancy, this adds 1,648 lbs of bouyancy. I will add additional foam to the bilge as well as to the floor on the port and starbord of the stringers. My local composite shop has a 5 gal size which will give me about 25 cu ft of foam which should just about do it. Thanks again Bob!
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My pleasure Koz.
I've always been impressed by the size of the CCP stringers. What were your four original measurements on the inside and do I see a wood strip sandwiched in part of the stringer?
Thanks and good luck. :thumright:
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I dont get the wood. Its sections as well and not one piece and it was barely glassed in. Im guessing a screw backing of some sort. its too loosely glassed in to be structural. I dont intend on doing much about it.
I had 4.5, 16, 12, 13 inches at the section right under where the fuel line sits. My local guy has a 5 gallon quantity of 4 lb which should do 25 cu ft. Thats 12.5 cu ft a stringer so im hoping that will do it. Its about $425 which is about $45 more than ordering it (product and shipping) which I can live with.
To be truthful, I didnt take into account the cost of the foam or the recommended set off temp of 75 degrees plus. That gives me a few weeks at best here on Long Island. This made me think about and alter the rebuild schedule. The transom is definitely still first in line, but I think I will repair and foam the stringers asap and then wrap the boat up for the winter. I cant lay the floor until I cast my two in floor hatches (front bin in the bow and livewell/bilge) and figure out the stern bait station as that will determine where the floor meets the stern area. So after tarping the boat, I will hibernate the winter in the garage to create and cast a few molds (stern bait station, 2 in floor hatches, jockey seat) and repair the gas tank cover with Sea Cast self leveling mix. On the tank cover, I may have to move the access cover to the fuel lines, so I want to glass a recess for the pie plate so it is flush. I will also have to have the gas tank builders move the fuel intake, vent and sending unit to a different location as well. One thing effects another...
Jdupree... Thanks buddy. Its coming along. Its alot of work but I cannot imagine how proud I will be to take her out and say yup... I did this!
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You have a great build coming along here, and as most, a lot of things happening at once.
Good thinking on the transom first....you'll lock-in/solidify the hull. Then if temps permit, pour the closed cell foam on the stringers.
If you get that far before cold weather sets in...wrap the stringers over with a double layer of 20 mil plastic, and let that part of the build ride until spring...you have strengthened the hull yet again.
You can work on the other stuff in the garage over the winter :wink:
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ugggh.... FINALLY got all the foam out of both stringers. I am aching. This just flat out sucked. Basically a full day a stringer to get the foam out. 9 large garbage bags of foam. Starbord stringer is ready for rebuild while I ran out of daylight for the port stringer but there is just a few crumbs left in the corners. The best tool award goes to a fence installation tamping bar. It is solid steel, weights alot, had a chisel end on one side and a blunt end on the other. Fit in the foam pour holes and because of its weight, didnt take any effort at all to cut through the foam. Basically I would keep working it in one of the holes left and right, up and down and eventually I was able to pry a big chunks into the free space started at the middle cut. Still plain sucked though.
I had to make one more cut out near the bow. Darn, i was hoping to get away with 2 cuts but these 3 arent bad. Turns out the plywood does go the full length of the stringer so im going to have to assume its for rigidity. Im going to add a plywood bulkhead to the inside of the large cut anyway just to put my stamp on adding a touch more strength. Also, Im fairly certain that if I go with 1/2 ply for the floors that I will add another bulkhead/crossbrace or 2 under the coffin box where the longest span is. In addition. I will be adding 2 more bulkheads/crossbraces under the mounts for the console to give the screws something to bite into. I think I will not have an issue.
In addition, I noticed a bit of flex to the massive gunwales, I am thinking about adding a bulkhead/brace that would go up the hull behind the gunwale and come down under the floor and attach to the outside of the stringer. I would be able to access it to tab it by removing the rod holder insert and woprk through there. I may cut a blank out of carboard just to see how it would fit. More to come on that.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6054.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6054.jpg.html)
3rd cut
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6055.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6055.jpg.html)
2nd cut
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6056.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6056.jpg.html)
1st cut
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6053.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6053.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6046.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6046.jpg.html)
starbord stringer
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6044.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6044.jpg.html)
another shot 2nd and 3rd cuts
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(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6047a-1.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6047a-1.jpg.html)
Im not sure if this makes it any clearer, but here are the 3 areas I am thinking of adding bulkhead/bracing to. I would use a layer or 2 of 3/4 marine ply glassed
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Good deal.
No fun tearing her out. But, in the end, you'll know what you have.
Great work :salut:
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Finished up the stringers. Then I started working on the edge of the floor, cutting the top layer back to its final length and prying out the rest of the core. I wish I could cut the top layer back further but I am fearful of not having enough exisitng top layer to glass to so thats as far as I am going to cut back. It has left me with a bit of a pocket which could be 1 to 2 inches in some spots. This further answers the question of going with 1/2 inch ply as I want to slide the floor sections right into the pocket. I do not want to wrap the new glass up the sides as I dont want to fair out corners. I want to glass just to the flat of the top layer. Being it was all parquet, it left me with various depths of where the old floor sections were, so I will fill them with a West Systems 404 peanut butter to insure no voids.
I will use a 2 pronged BBQ fork and map out the exact cavity depth of the floor. One tine in the gap and the other tine on top, marking with a sharpie where the depth is.
I then hosed and vaccummed everything up and put all the pieces back in the hull for another day. I should be ordering materials in the next two weeks consisting of fiberglass, resin, foam and seacast, etc to get the stringers and transom completed.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6060.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6060.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6064.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6064.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6066.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6066.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6067.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6067.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6068.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6068.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6069.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6069.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6071.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6071.jpg.html)
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At least go 5/8".
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You are getting a nice clean job Koz :salut:
Will you be putting a crown on the deck?
A slight crown is a plus, gets the water away from the console quickly and straight to the stern.
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Rick, I'm going to stick with the 1/2 inch so it fits back in that pocket. If I go any thicker I will have to cut back the top layer of the existing floor and lose my intended tabbing area. I am going to add some cross supports under the coffin box area, otherwise the other areas aren't that wide where the 1/2 will flex.
Gran, I doubt it. I think its a bit complicated in that I want to "v groove" the boards together (similar to a tongue and grove but just a big V) and the only place you could get a bit of a hump is the front half of the boat. The back half has the tank tub and transom. I'm not so worried about run off as the trailer pitch will take care of water. Also, where it sits in my driveway is pitched to port anyway. Going with pin straight or a hit of a bow maybe. Have to see how the material is when I get it.
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Koz,
Thanks for sending me the diagonal measurement of your stringer. As I stated, I wanted to recheck the volume in an effort to give you a better feel for the 25 cf the 5 gal. can would give you.
This method is similar to the first in that you average the perimeter in calculating the volume but is more accurate in that a triangle with three known sides has but one volume unlike a four sided figure that can be "reshaped" so the volume will vary.
You now have the inside of your stringer divided into two triangles. One is: A=16" B= 4.5" C= 19.75" The other is: A=12" B=13" C=19.75". Once again, add the perimeter of the first triangle and divide the sum by 2 (call it Z). Then again subtract each side from Z.
(Z-A=D, Z-B=E, Z-C=F) and get your three new numbers (D,E and F). Now you multiply your three new numbers and Z, (D x E x F x Z).
Lastly take the square root of that product and you'll have the area of the triangle one. Repeat for the other triangle and add both together and you have the total surface area. Again multiply by the length you need and you have your total volume.
I think you'll find you are just under the 25cf of the 5 gal. pail of foam. Again, you may need more or you may use less. The volume doesn't change that much using this method (it is however more accurate) so hopefully one bucket will do the job.
Good luck. :thumright:
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Thank you Again Capt Bob. I surely was not looking forward to buying more than the 5 gal bucket. I should be back to work on the CCP in about 2 weeks
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I like the second method better as I got 12.23 cu ft for an 18 ft run which is much closer to half of 25 cu ft that the 5 gal bucket of foam is supposed to produce. Brilliant to see it as two triangles. Hidden in plain site, i would have never seen that until you pointed it out. I enjoy problem solving the obvious. Thanks again for laying out the math.
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(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/79aquasport246cutouttrueworld.png) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/79aquasport246cutouttrueworld.png.html)
Here is the look I am going for. This is an older pic from the winter but it had the console in its correct new location. On that photo I photoshopped a pilothouse that I liked. Its from a brand called True World Marine. I like the lines and angles. It actually has another window forward of that one but I photshopped it out to have only what I wanted. I love it! I wil scale the pictures and copy the lines and angles to re-create this look for my CCP
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A nice Downeast look. :thumright: If you are fabbing it together, try drawing in a 3 to 6 inch visor on the front of the top and see how she looks. Kind of like the house tops here:
http://www.calvinbealboats.com/34-36.html
A question about the router bit you posted in Rick's rebuild for getting set up for edge glueing the panels. Is the expectation that using them will help in alignment or just added gluing surface? Reason for asking is that your line up is going to have to be dead nuts or you will end up with a gap on one side or the other if you clamp the panels flat it here is any misalignment of the cuts. If you are a bit off and clamp the joint together (pulled together) then the panels will not line up on the faces.
Another option for good glueing surface is a bead and cove example, just have to get them for 1/2 inch..
http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=18920 or better yet:
http://www.grizzly.com/products/Bead-Bit-For-Small-Boat-Planking-1-4-Shank/C1378
and
http://www.grizzly.com/products/Flute-Bit-For-Small-Boat-Planking-1-4-Shank/C1379
These allow for a bunch of adjustment and you have to be really close, but not dead nuts.. I have had good success with these too..
Or you could do what Chris said and but them together and glass away. Harold Pason, a long time builder up here would but ply together, pull out the wood eraser (BIG angle grinder with 36 grit) and sand a dished grove down the joint then fill with polyester and tape till it was flush, kinda like taping sheetrock. That was quick and it worked great and with the correct prep you didn't notice it once it got covered..
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I use a number of those bits, for my wood working. They do give you a greater bonding surface and keep, in planking, cupping down to a minimum. In plywood, the greater bonding surface is the reason to use them, Since cupping isn’t the problem.
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Thanks for all the great suggestions DBurr and SaltFly i appreciate it. I like the pics of those pilot houses and I like the down east look. However, I am not going gunwale to gunwale, I am building it just off of the console. Its going to be about 38 inches wide so it will be quite narrow. Basically it is a glorified T-top without the $1800 price tag and the off the shelf common look. As you mentioned, I plan on some form of a visor of a few inches as I like the look of that. The photo was a quick alteration of the True World Marine enclosure. I love the look from the side. I want the roofline to look near parallel to the water when under way so it will be higher in the rear than in the front as compared to the natural horizontal lines of the boat.
They thinking and application behind it is that I like the functionality of the center console 360 degree design, so I do not want to mess with that by closing off the front like a walk around. Its intended range is less than 10 miles offshore so I have no need for a full cabin. I do not like the larger overhangs on the sided that a t-top features as at times I need to cast as I fish. The rear will overhang just far enough to meet the centerpoint of a flip back cooler seat so I can canvas in the cockpit area should need be. You couldnt cast from the cooler seat anyway so I dont see that as too invasive. I want the security of solid glass windows and the storage and mountability of accessories that a solid enclosure gives. I do not like trying to see through hazy eisenglass as it ages.
The enclosures' purpose is for me and maybe 2 other fisherman to tuck in tight to avoid a cold spray for the 20-30 minutes it will take to get to where ever we are fishing for the day. I doubt I will ever take more than 3 other guys out far in the early or late season. Even thought the boat can handle it, if I have the need to go really far and deep, I will leave that to a charter with a bigger boat and a full cabin. I dont think a center console is where I want to be a day away from land in a nasty turn of weather.
And lastly, I think its cool looking and I want to have something original that I can say I built myself. The thing with building it yourself is you can design it with any feature you want where ever you want them. You are not bound by what is available on the market. I enjoy the planing and execution of making something custom to suit my needs.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/edgebandbits.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/edgebandbits.jpg.html)As for the bits, I chose that one because I believe it will evenly spread maximum contact area on the joint. Ply wood is exactly that, its plies. I feel this bit evenly distributes pressure over the plys evenly. The rounded bits you linked are similar and would probably work the same, but I think the "V" has a slight advantage as the outer most tip of the round that the bit cuts has no support as it is basically vertical. Its splitting hairs and not worth much debate as any of the ones in question will work fine.
As for lining them up exactly, I will use a table and not a hand tool. Santa wife brought me a cool router table for Christmas so I will run the sections through there. If I am off a 32th I can hit it with a sander to flatten it out. It is only 3 joints in total so I will make them work for me one way or another. As in most routing, you should run a test piece through to ensure allignment before you run the good piece through. Unfortunately this discussion is all in theory as I have not used the bits yet, but of course I will report the pros and cons when I do.
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You have it goin on! I have birds mouth bits similar to the one on the right that I use for making round wood containers. Originally bought them to build a flag pole, but that hasn't happened yet.. When sharp and on the router table they cut very clean and fast. :thumright: :thumleft:
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I went to the lumber yard to check out the wood again. 1/2 inch marine seemed a bit thin to the feel to me so I went home and measured again. Turns out that due to swelling and wear and tear, the pieces of the floor that I removed were a bit thicker than 1/2 inch. They were more like 9/16 to 5/8. The former floor pocket is the same, plus the fact that I have to sand and clean out the pocket a bit brings me to about 5/8's. I was about to change the material list to 5/8 ply when I remembered that I have to glass the bottom of the floor as well. I will not fit 5/8 plus glass in that pocket. So, instead of one layer of 1.5 chopped strand under I'm thinking I may go with a layer or two of 1708 which should give me exceptional rigidity as well as build the 1/2 inch ply thicker for a nice fit in the pocket. Or, I can resin 5/8 with no glass on the bottom and go 5/8. What do you think?
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Koz you can still put the chopped strand on the bottom and a layer or 2 of 1708 over the 5/8.. You may end up grinding some off to fit the lip but the extra 1/8 inch and the added plus will give you strength and peace of mind. My vote would be 5/8.. Then again my old work bench was edge set 2x6 with 4x4 legs. I would rather over build then worry..
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A heavy resin coat on the bottom of the ply will do what you need it to do - no glass needed - been there done that and after 14 years it was still as I laid it. I would still think about 5/8" and put 2 layers of 1.5oz on top. The wood is the structure. Maybe top it off with 6oz cloth to give you a better base to finish.
My $.02.
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The wood is the structure.
GOD I hate when I have contrarian ideas here :? (lest I be jettisoned from my favorite forum like a fraternity pledge who won't drink), but I want to make sure that we all understand the wood is never the strength of any fiberglass laminate/sandwich. Properly laid fiberglass in properly mixed resin (yes, even poly resin) is much stronger (both PSI compression and tensile strength) than plywood could ever be. What the wood core does is provide a cheaper way to create a (hopefully) well bonded and lighter weight separation zone between top and bottom glass layers that functions much like the diagonal cross braces on a barn door. The harder and drier the plywood and the fewer the voids, the greater the strength of the lam. The drier ply absorbs the resin better and the cells in the wood have already shrunk as much as possible to reduce "compressibility" (if that's a word). Just rap on the side of your hull with a mallet or knuckle and compare the hardness and rigidity to any plywood...ever stood on a 5/8" thick slab of multi-layer fiberglass and tried to bend it? Now try the same with 5/8" ply alone and think of the amount of deflection you'd see? Same thing with a compression test. Hit each with a hammer once and see which one takes the deeper mark. Surfboards make another good analogy. If you just resin or chop glass coated the bottom of the foam core and structurally glassed just the top of each surfboard (as opposed to both laminating top and bottom like they're currently built), how long do you honestly think it would take to fail under normal use/abuse? I honestly don't have the time right now to dig up the info (visiting the in-laws and getting the evil eye from the wife :evil: ), but if you want specifics I will do so at my earliest opportunity.
To clarify, my only point is that a hypothetical 1/2" plywood core sandwiched between two 3/16" thick layers of good biax or similar glass (I don't know the difference between 1708, 1808, etc. to know what makes different thicknesses) will be stronger (and slightly heavier) than a 5/8 inch ply core sandwiched between two similarly constructed 1/8 inch-thick glass skins.
Koz - My input is meant only as an advisory that you consider researching tensile and compression strengths of your materials and some additional lamination info to make your decision yourself based on both strength, needs, and finances. The stringers will provide plenty of support for the floor either way. We're all rooting for you and just doing our best to help.
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The wood is the structure.
GOD I hate when I have contrarian ideas here :? (lest I be jettisoned from my favorite forum like a fraternity pledge who won't drink), but I want to make sure that we all understand the wood is never the strength of any fiberglass laminate/sandwich. Properly laid fiberglass in properly mixed resin (yes, even poly resin) is much stronger (both PSI compression and tensile strength) than plywood could ever be. What the wood core does is provide a cheaper way to create a (hopefully) well bonded and lighter weight separation zone between top and bottom glass layers that functions much like the diagonal cross braces on a barn door. The harder and drier the plywood and the fewer the voids, the greater the strength of the lam. The drier ply absorbs the resin better and the cells in the wood have already shrunk as much as possible to reduce "compressibility" (if that's a word). Just rap on the side of your hull with a mallet or knuckle and compare the hardness and rigidity to any plywood...ever stood on a 5/8" thick slab of multi-layer fiberglass and tried to bend it? Now try the same with 5/8" ply alone and think of the amount of deflection you'd see? Same thing with a compression test. Hit each with a hammer once and see which one takes the deeper mark. Surfboards make another good analogy. If you just resin or chop glass coated the bottom of the foam core and structurally glassed just the top of each surfboard (as opposed to both laminating top and bottom like they're currently built), how long do you honestly think it would take to fail under normal use/abuse? I honestly don't have the time right now to dig up the info (visiting the in-laws and getting the evil eye from the wife :evil: ), but if you want specifics I will do so at my earliest opportunity.
To clarify, my only point is that a hypothetical 1/2" plywood core sandwiched between two 3/16" thick layers of good biax or similar glass (I don't know the difference between 1708, 1808, etc. to know what makes different thicknesses) will be stronger (and slightly heavier) than a 5/8 inch ply core sandwiched between two similarly constructed 1/8 inch-thick glass skins.
Koz - My input is meant only as an advisory that you consider researching tensile and compression strengths of your materials and some additional lamination info to make your decision yourself based on both strength, needs, and finances. The stringers will provide plenty of support for the floor either way. We're all rooting for you and just doing our best to help.
Excellent post Georgie :thumright:
Koz, on the underlay....as it will be exposed..go with a layer or two of 1708 as Dave Burr advises.
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Koz...another idea, independent of former thinking.
Golf car top.
Everglades Boats is using a molded polystyrene top on their latest production....no fiberglass. May not be shown here, but have viewed locally and looks good. Minimal weight.
http://evergladesboats.com/boats.cfm/mo ... s/id/23186 (http://evergladesboats.com/boats.cfm/mode/details/id/23186)
Something to consider.
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So there I was trying to decide whether blue board foam would be a good bonding surface and filler when sandwiched between 2 pieces of 3/16 luan. I was building a skiff and I wanted the deck to be strong and light.. The only foam that I had laying around at the time was 2", no worries, I just glued two 6"x12" pieces of luan, one to a side, with thickened epoxy to the blue board. The board was prepped by removing the plastic sheet that seals each side then it was lightly sanded with 120. After a 48hr set up, just in case, I began to try and break it up. First was me jumping in it.. Then I built a homemade press out of 2x4 and 3" drywall screws and powered by a 3 ton bottle jack.. (Discolsure: I did push on the test piece with a 2x2 piece of 1/8" plate because the jack head would have punched through the luan). I broke the press.. Then I got out the 5210 John Deere (weighted tires, about 4500#) and ran it over. Only damage was to the edges where the tires tore up the luan a little. So me being me :evil: :twisted: I stood on the piece with the bucke edge and that did it. It did however cut throught the top layer before the bottom broke.. Now, if I'd have take the time to glass the luan, that would have been impressive....
Moral of all this? Just like Ryan said, it ain't the filler in a composite system, it is the surfaces. Think I-beam. The fancy high dollar cores are not strong by themselves, the advantage in them is they are light for their thickness and won't rot. For the most part they won't hold a fasener either, (neither will thin sheet plywood).... But when glassed on either side is when they really gain strength and become a justifiable expense..
Just food for thought..
An aside, I also made a wakeboard out of the blue foam.. I went to skimpy on the glass on the rail and my nephew's big old monster foot cracked it. What was interesting is that water got in and the hydraulic action at 20mph cause the glass on the bottom to separate from the foam. :shock: :oops: Not sure I would use the foam on an exterior surface after that, maybe that delam could be expected of with any substraght but I'd rather have someone else prove it..
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Thank you EVERYONE for taking the time to school me. I got it now. Lightbulbs went on. I had an "ah haaaa" moment. I had all the pieces in my head but I needed you guys to line them up for me. I beams and surfboards did it for me. I get it now and it makes perfect sense. Im going 1/2 inch glassed strong on both sides.
Also, to add, the inner cap walls (gunwales) are super floppy now that they are cut from the deck. Makes me put in perspective how relevant the bond is from the cap to the gunwales to the floor as for overall rigidity of the boat. I would fear trailering this boat right now as I think it could do damage to the existing cap from it flopping and rattling all over the road. Makes me think more about how to bond it all back together as strongly as possible with the few inches of upper and lower tabbing I have left to work with. I think a strong top and bottom glass skin on the deck insert will not only give the floor rigidity (surfboards and I beams), but will also act as two tie in points to tie the cap/gunwales to the stringers. Vinylester resin will help. (note: not interested in epoxy as I want to use gelcoat and im cool with spending a bit more for the vinyl over poly)
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Progress!
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6108.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6108.jpg.html)
Today was a great day! Sold an outboard that will fund the Seacast and most of my glass and resin, junked the blue donor boat, and sold the trailer it was on as well. I was very short on time so I had to get mideval with the sawzall in removing the outboard bracket from the blue donor hull. Tomorrow I will get all those bolts out and make a template to use going forward. I hope to get to the glass supplier tomorrow or monday, and maybe get my seacast order in as well! Very exciting!!
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I went shopping....
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6111.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6111.jpg.html)
1 roll of biaxial 1708, 50" (Note.. Discovered by Carl on 10/24 that its actually 2408, which is 24 oz instead of 17)
1 roll of 1.5 oz chopped strand, 50"
5 gal vinylester resin
5 gal gel coat
3 gal 2lb foam
gel coat gun and cups
styrene
wax additive
mold release wax
rollers
MEKP dispenser
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6121.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6121.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/faedc527-7a41-4461-b431-025e57a92899.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/faedc527-7a41-4461-b431-025e57a92899.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6114.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6114.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6112.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6112.jpg.html)
and I built this nifty cool roller rack to store it all on
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6115.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6115.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6116.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6116.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6122.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6122.jpg.html)
Extra special thanks to Reinforced Plastics in Farmingdale NY for their great help and prices. I have been going there for small stuff for a few years now and they have always been friendly and eager to answer questions. Whether I was buying a quart of poly resin or todays mother load of goods, they were always great!
The temps are dropping fast here so I gotta get that foam in the stringers asap.
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Yup, there's some bucks sitting in that 10sf :shock:
What did the dump gun run you?
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$165 for the gun. They have great prices there. $217 for the roll of 1.5 chopped strand, and that's 110 lb roll not 80 lb like on some sites.
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that's not a bad price :idea:
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Put in a long draining day running on 4 hours sleep from yesterday which means i got half as much done in twice the time. I am hurting, tired and cranky and I am taking tomorrow off (maybe lol).
Im working to get the stringers ready to foam before the weather gets below 70 degrees. I think I should have a few weeks but I want to pour asap. I think I need about 2 more full days to get the stringers all set. Its tedious, minute detail work that takes time with not too much exciting to show for it.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6123.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6123.jpg.html)
filling in some of the unnecessary cut outs to the stringers. I will glass everything over.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6128.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6128.jpg.html)
Here is some roughed in frame work which will be glassed with 2408 to rebuild the stringer. Its 1/4 inch ac ply just basically there to hold the glass in place. Its not intended for structural support. I have added a bulkhead inside the stringer of 3/4 which will be glassed in for structural support. I figured I might as well add it while I have the stringer open. The PVC pipe is for the fuel line and vent line to pass through. It will be trimmed flush and glassed in.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6127.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6127.jpg.html)
better shot of the bulkhead
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6131.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6131.jpg.html)
Here is the port side roughed in. A few more screws and it will be ready for glass, but I have to tab in the internal bulkhead first.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6132.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6132.jpg.html)
Here is my answer for a bomber console mount. I cut in a piece of 3/4 ply and I will glass the whole thing solid and shut.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6133.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6133.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6136.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6136.jpg.html)
This is how the console base lines up. I will add cross supports between the stringers for the consol to bolt to as well.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6135.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6135.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6140.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6140.jpg.html)
rain is on the way. Time to keep her dry from this point on. We had a few dry warm days so I know everything is good and dry.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6141.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6141.jpg.html)
covered and ready for the weather. I made the cover quite high so I can keep working under the cover if need be.
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It's always the little stuff that takes the longest time. :roll:
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being that I am moving the console forward about 30 inches, today I pondered what to do about the rigging tubes. PVC is just too heavy to me. I was leaning towards casting copies of the original tubes out of fiberglass and custom make the tubes I need however that became a huge effort for a fairly mundane purpose. Also, I am getting tired of the snails pace and I want to get moving along. Home Depot to the rescue! I found these super lightweight HDPE 4 inch smooth walled drain tubes in the plumbing isle. A 10 foot length must weigh about 4-5 pounds and is a few inches longer than I need. They are perfect! I will reduce the end to 3" with PVC, 45 degree it through the stringer and elbow it up under the console. The one drawback is that you cannot easily bond HDPE to PVC, so a few holes and pop rivets should be enough to hold the PVC 4" to 3" reducer to the end of the HDPE pipe. I will strap the pipe to the outer wall of the stringer with filberglass straps. I hope to get at least one in tomorrow.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6142.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6142.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6143.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6143.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6144.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6144.jpg.html)
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Today I cut in the rigging tubes. I went with 3 inch PVC 45's and elbows to navigate through the stringers and up into the corners of the console. I will use the 4 inch super light HDPE drain pipe from the PVC back to the stern. I have done so on both sides. I would like to run the transducer and the hydraulic steering hoses seperate from the rest of the electric cables to insure the best images on the fish finder. They came out mint! I am very happy with how it came out. I also cut a 2 inch PVC pipe forward of the console to house the front hatch drain hose which will be plumbed to a new bronze thru hull mounted in the existing starboard cut out.
I rough sanded all the sections of the stringers that will be accepting new glass. Tomorrow I will wipe everything down with acetone and begin glassing the stringers closed. I may even start to foam if the resin has enough time to set.
Ahhhhhh.... can you smell the styrene???
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6210.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6210.jpg.html)
the long tube will be strapped in with fiberglass straps after the stringers are foamed.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6211.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6211.jpg.html)
The PVC sections are permanently in. I will glass reinforcements around the cutouts.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6212.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6212.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6213.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6213.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6214.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6214.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6215.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6215.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6216.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6216.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6217.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6217.jpg.html)
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Started glassing the stringers shut. Gave everything an acetone wipe down and started with the first layer of biaxial with unwaxed vinylester resin. I will give everything a second shot of 1708 with waxed resin as a second and final go around. With an entire roll of biaxial, I should have plenty to spare to glass all I want. I hope to have all the first layers done tomorrow so I can pour foam on friday.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6218.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6218.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6220.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6220.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6221.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6221.jpg.html)
This is for the front drain hose. Its PVC set at a 45 degree angle to drain what will be an in floor hatch cover for the front in floor storage bin. I am not having a drain under the coffin box as it is highly unlikely that the coffin will ever hold wet goods. I have always used it for dry storage, and if that should change the box will still drain onto the deck.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6230.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6230.jpg.html)
Here is how the plywood insert/reinforcement for mounting the console looks glassed:
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6226.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6226.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6228.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6228.jpg.html)
Here is some of the plywood sections pre sealed in vinyl ester resin:
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6229.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6229.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6225.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6225.jpg.html)
Bulkheads for inside the stringer
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6224.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6224.jpg.html)
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R T F!!! :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
Ready To Foam!!
Looong day with not much to show for it except closed off stringers. I glassed all day but the bulk of the work came from cutting patterns. As you can see in prior pics, there are large cutouts in the stringers. I placed 1/4 inch ply on the inside to act as a mold for the glass. It left about a 1/8 of an inch gap which was the thickness roughly of the discarded pieces. I wanted to build that all back up before I put a relatively smooth larger layer over the whole cut. So my two large middle stringer cuts and my console reinforcement cuts have 3 layers of biaxial on the wood where there is no original stringer, then I covered it all with a larger biaxial piece over the entire cut. This took all day and over a gallon of resin. After I foam tomorrow I am going to add one more wrap of biaxial pretty much down the entire stringer which will give any cut I made at least 2 layers of biaxial, and up to 5 layers where there is no original glass.
I did a quickie single layer of chopped strand on the stern ends of the stringer just for sake of holding the foam back. I will be cutting that all back out to tie the stringer to the transom with knees.
As for biaxial... i love it! The stuff is great to work with, doesnt shread, wets out easily, and is great to handle. I did a piece of chopped strand and I felt like I walked through a spider web at night!... it was all over my hands and tools. Biaxial also heavy at about 15 oz (?), you get strength and buildup really fast. Of course it doesnt like 90 degree corners too much but its great stuff. It has its purposes and limitations. Im using ALOT of it and the roll is dwindling fast. In fact, I seperated 40 feet (2 x 20 ft) on a seperate roll for use on the deck. I would hate to get to rolling out the deck to find I am a few feet short. I would rather find out i am short doing anything other than the floor as I want that to look perfect.
I think plans have changed a bit. I am short on cash and heavy with supplies. I think I am going to buy the flooring ($80 x 4 = $320) and get 4 sheets of 1/2 marine, finish the floor and the transom pocket, and order and pour the Sea Cast in the spring. My Seacast order is about $1,400 for the transom pour and the self leveling for the gas tank cover which is a bit rich for me right now. Both financially and weather wise, I cant do both now. If I did the transom now and not the floor I would have all this glass, resin and gelcoat sitting in my garage until the spring. I think I want to use it up as much as I can as quickly as I can.
Sorry these pics are so dark. I will take better ones tomorrow in the daylight.
All glassed in and fairly smooth thanks to layers and layers of "puzzle piece" biaxial to build up the low spots
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6237.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6237.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6236.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6236.jpg.html)
quickie cap just to hold the foam back. This will be cut back out to make way for knees once the transom is in
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6242.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6242.jpg.html)
Seperate pieces of biaxial set aside for the deck. I dont want to end up a foot or two short on the floor (with my luck)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6232.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6232.jpg.html)
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Funny side note from today. The weather was calling for a chance of thunderstorms and I paid no mind for the most part. Just as I made my way under the tarp with a quart of hot resin the skies opened up! I was stuck under the tarp glassing as thunder, lightning, wind and rain tried to come in too! Im glad to see my enclosure worked when I needed it. It got a bit concerning with some strong thunder but hell or high water I was getting this resin down and pouring foam tomorrow. Also, one of the youtube videos stressed that the 2 part foam does not like water at all to the point that they recommended using a plastic stirrer stick instead of wood because of woods moisture content. So im glad that I was able to keep evertything dry.
More to come!!!
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Funny side note from today. The weather was calling for a chance of thunderstorms and I paid no mind for the most part. Just as I made my way under the tarp with a quart of hot resin the skies opened up! I was stuck under the tarp glassing as thunder, lightning, wind and rain tried to come in too! Im glad to see my enclosure worked when I needed it. It got a bit concerning with some strong thunder but hell or high water I was getting this resin down and pouring foam tomorrow. Also, one of the youtube videos stressed that the 2 part foam does not like water at all to the point that they recommen1ded using a plastic stirrer stick instead of wood because of woods moisture content. So im glad that I was able to keep evertything dry.
good work
More to come!!!
:thumright:
Good work!
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Looks good Koz :salut: Looks like you are not too far from the deck being installed once the foam goes in :thumright: Nice progress :salut:
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So I poured the foam on friday. I dont have any pics as the end result doesnt look much different. If done perfectly I think I could have gotten away with 3 gallon kits of 2 lb foam. (Yes, I went with 2 lb as the glass shop talked me out of the 4lb. It was probably a good move as I was running up a bill fast.) For fear of it errupting in my hands, the very first batch I made I didnt stur it enough and it kind of only half grew. Also i sprang a leak in one of my rear stringer quickie cap which by the time I noticed it leaked about 2 sq ft onto the blige. I think if it werent for those 2 mistakes I would not have had to run out in traffic at 4:15 to get to the shop at 4:45 (15 mins before closing) to drop another $110 on a 4th gallon kit. Sucks! Expensive amaetur mistakes. It took me a half gallon to finish and a portion of that errupted over anyway.
SO how did I do it? first I marked everything with a big "A" or "B"... on the handles, caps and mixing tubs, so I wouldnt cross contaminate anyting by accident. Then, I had 3 large graduated tubs. I made a thick mark at the "1 quart" line on two of the tubs and labled them "A" and "B" as well. One one youtube site I watched said to NOT use a wooden stiring stick because of its moisure(water) content, to only use plastic. Well this became a problem as my Home Depot only had wooden ones. I ended up with a long plastic shoe horn from a dollar store! It actually worked awesome as as the rounded edges became good scrapers. I would think a plastic cooking spoon would work too.
So I would pour a quart of A into tub A and quart of B into tub B, then pour both into the 3rd tub, stir until it was evenly mixed and starting to rise(15-20 seconds?) and pour in the hole.
All was going well until the last 2-3 pours when space was getting tight. I had a few mount Vesuvius eruptions which I tried to thwart with either a plastic tray I had, or my gloved hand. Caution.... this stuff gets HOT!!!!! The trick was to try and peel off the overflow after about 5 minutes when it was starting to firm but still soft and tacky. It seemed to release fairly cleanly. If you wait until it hardens fully good luck. I am going to have to grind or wire wheel off the mess. This stuff is fairly tough!
An interesting observation which could have some relevance as to why the foam got wet in the first place... I had foam bleeding out some of the pores of the fiberglass of the stringers themselves! Not in alot of places, but enough for me to think that this could possibly be a source of water intrusion for older stringers.
I was planning on gel coating the entire bilge just to smooth it out to counter any water from freezing and doing damage, but now It seems that there will be an additional benefit in sealing up the pores of the stringers. Im not super concerned as todays foams are closed cell and should not absorb water like the old stuff, so not to alarm anyone that this is a must do. Also, I have 5 gallons of gel coat and maybe need 3 so im happy to use it up. I am secretly using this as an opportunity to familiarize myself with the gel coat gun as I want to spray the floor perfectly. If I make a mistake or get a run in the bilge who cares. I think its a much better way to practice than wasting a quart of gelcoat on scrap wood.
Another progressional issue. I mis heard or misunderstood how much biaxial is on the roll. Turns out the shop tell me its only 45 yards which is 135 feet. Not what I thought and it puts me about 12 yards short not counting the pilot house. 80 ft floor (20 ft x 4 does one layer, port half and starboard half on each side), 15 ft stringer repair so far. Another 20 ft for final stringer repair. at least 36 for transom (9 ft X 4, 2 layers on the outer wall and 2 on the inner), which could probably go up to about 6 layers. 12 yards x $17.50 puts me at $210 when a whole roll was $346, so looks like I may be going for another roll of biaxial. I have a whole roll of 1.5 oz chopped mat which I will use here and there with the biax, but the biax is soooo nice to work with. By the way both rolls are 50 inch wide. Oh well. No turning back now.
For the next few days, the plan is to get the final glass on the stringers and be done with them. Then I want to add an additional bulkhead support mid way in the boat from the stringer all the way up the gunwale to the cap, just behind the front removable rod holder insert.... which means more crap to take apart and store in the yard. After that I want to get a layer of biax on the keel, then prep the entire bilge from inner top of the stringer to the other inner top of the stringer for gelcoating. More to come.....
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Good progress, and thanks for posting your procedure for the foam. I'm getting close to foaming my stringers - hopefully in the next couple of weeks.
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Your welcome Craig. I'm happy to share the information and make anyone's rebuild more successful.
John, thanks for the kudos as well.
As another tid bit of information, so far I have averaged about a gallon of vinylester resin for 10 feet (x50 inches) of biaxial. If this ratio continues I will need almost 15 gallons in total to finish the boat. I will tweak my numbers as I go. Does this sound about right?
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As another tid bit of information, so far I have averaged about a gallon of vinylester resin for 10 feet (x50 inches) of biaxial. If this ratio continues I will need almost 15 gallons in total to finish the boat. I will tweak my numbers as I go. Does this sound about right?
Pretty close. 10 feet of 1708 (50 inches wide) should be right at 116.6 ounces or 10.4 pounds of material. So, a gallon of resin being (roughly) 10 lbs puts you right were you want to be... A ratio of 1:1 glass and resin. 15 gallons sounds about right also... I'm planning on close to 30 gallons, but I need to build stringers, which is where the extra comes from in my case.
Also, my preferred method is to use a scale and weigh the cloth, then mix the same weight of resin on the scale and work it in to the cloth without any left overs. Takes the guess work out of the process.
Looking good, btw! :thumleft:
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That's good stuff Koz. I have 3 gallon kits of 2# sitting in the shop waiting to be used. Still finalizing everything before I foam the stringers but I'm close also.
Thanks for posting the process and the tips. :salut:
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Your welcome Rick, im happy to contribute as I have gained a huge amount of knowledge and confidence from this site.
Cally,
Thanks for the confirmation. And I thought my kids were consuming and expensive and full of additional costs... lol. Amateur realizations as this is my first major go around. At $243 for 5 gals of Vinyl ester resin im looking at another $500. No problem as I am in urgency to finish the boat. When its done its done. Also it will keep the resin fresh as I will buy more as I need it and not have it sitting around all winter.
As for your calculations, from my limited experience I would advise you to go a little heavier on that math because you will always have a little bit of waste in the form of runs and drips etc. I would have loved to work neater but time is not on your side with a hot pot of resin so it can get a little sloppy. I am cautious against using less catalyst than reccommended (10 cc per qt) as I have read that it could affect the bonding reacation if there isnt enough catalyst. With that in mind, I have stayed with mostly a quart mixed at a time. I went a quart and a half once and it gelled on me before I could finish resulting in about 1 cup of wasted resin. So regardless of the amount of glass you want to lay at one time, I would limit the amount of resin to what you can work with without it gelling. Of course temperature plays a roll in gel time, as well as material. Im using vinylester which im not sure if polyester or epoxy have different set times. I think you can get different catalysts for epoxy to slow or speed set time but im not using epoxy as I want to use gel coat.
in any case, that seems like a great way to gauge how much you need so at least you know what quantities you are looking at for the project of the moment. I would love to know in adavance about how much I will need to use. Im going to try that method. Thanks!!!
Disclaimer... of course if you are a pro and have done this many times i mean no disrespect. I am not going to say I know it all as I am new to this, but I am happy to share my experiences with hopes that it may save someone some time, money and effort.
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I'm glad I could offer some kind of help, and no, I am not a pro, but I do have a background with composites and boat repair. One thing that can help with the kick time (poly, vinyl, and epoxy) is to chill the resin before you mix it. Another is to get it spread out as fast a possible. Another thing to do, even though I prefer to work with epoxy (which is more forgiving with the cure times) but it helps with poly/vinyl resins too. It is to lay out your fabric on plastic sheeting and wet it out there as opposed to on the part. Just use a squeegee to spread the resin out flow into the fabric. You will be surprised how much more time you get by getting that resin thin and not allowing so much heat to build. I have some more to do today, so I will try to post a video if it will help. Actually, I think I have some poly in the garage too, if it is still good I'll do it with that also.
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I second Carl's chilling suggestion to give you more working time. If I have a large area to do, I will set several quart-size quantities of resin (poly in my case) on ice in an igloo cooler. Then I will add MEK as I remove each tub. Seems to give me a bit more working time.
Question on the foam - after you mix the two parts and pour them in the stringer, I imagine there is still some residue in the bucket, which I would think also expands. Do you have to scrape the bucket after each pour? And your mixing stick too?
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I was advised to plan on 2oz of resin per sq ft of 1708 and it's worked out pretty close. If you're glassing porous stuff, like old glass or wood, add 25% more.
Craig, I bought throw-away paper buckets for the mixing of foam. Stuff is tough.
Koz, I was mistaken - I have 2 kits of foam in the garage - hopefully will be enough.
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Thanks again Carl for the great tips. I did put ice in the bottom of one bucket and put my working bucket inside of it. It seemed to help a little. Thats also great advice to wet a part out on plastic sheeting. That could work great on smaller pieces. Its not like the working time has been too short. For the most part has been enough time especially with less than 1/2 gallon batches. The biaxial wets out super nice. When I switch to doing alot of chopped strand then I will have to chill it as it does not wet out as nice as biax. When it comes time to lay an almost 20 foot strip of biax then chopped strand for the floor top coat then I will ice the hell out of it to make sure I have enough time. Thats going to be the fun one. Everything else I should have enough time. Awesome advice thank you!
CLM, as for the foam. Its had to put timing on it, but yes, it would expand in the bucket. I was able to get about 3 quick quart mixes in the mix bucket (actually 2 quarts, a quart of a and b) before it was too crudded up to go forward. Then, after about 4-10 minutes, it would stop expanding, be soft and pliable, and more of a soft foam than a liquid, and it would then peel cleanly off the mixer and the bucket. If you wait a little longer the same would happen where it was soft enough to come off of all the plastic. If you try too soon it will smear and stick really good. If you wait an hour plus, or however long it takes to fully harden you may have to throw everything out. You can "roll" the plastic bucket and get the foam to release. Its amazing how incredibly sticky this crap is but it will flake clean off of plastic. You have to experiment with it and get the feel for when it will come off your tools clean. By the time you figure it out you will be finished! lol
Rick, i dont know about 2 gallon kits, im upto 3 1/2 and I just found out I have a bit more to do (see below)
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So today I started to tackle the mid boat bulkhead support that I want to add. I took a long look at how to make the piece and this is what I came up with to make the pattern. I drew a line where I want the support. I waxed the area a few coats with release wax. Then I took 6 inch wide piece of 1.5 oz chopped strand and wet it out. I laid it where I wanted it and worked a pinched ridge in the middle as a support. The plan is to let it harden, pop it off in a day or two and hopefully have a perfectly traceable profile that I can transfer to a piece of plywood for a perfect fit. I am further hopeful that I can use the same cutout for both sides. Hopefully I can get it off without destroying the pattern.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6376.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6376.jpg.html)
In addition. I made a cool discovery today as far as checking to see how well the foam spread. If you hold a light against the opposite side of the stringer it will shine through where there is no foam. Hopefully it will be all dark for you, but I have 2 spots that will need a small "drill and fill".
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6378.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6378.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6377.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6377.jpg.html)
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If you hold a light against the opposite side of the stringer it will shine through where there is no foam.
That is good stuff right there. Thank you for that tip :!: :idea: :salut:
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It worked PERFECTLY! I pretty much popped right out with just a spot or two needing a little help. More importantly this should raise the awareness to all as to how important it is to prep your surfaces. Who knows whats on your surfaces and as incredibly sticky resin is it was no match at all to the wax, and im sure grease, oil, etc. So anyway, here is the "pattern" as it came out of the hull:
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6382.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6382.jpg.html)
I transfered it to plywood and cut the first one, then I dry fit it, made notes as to tweaks, and transferred those tweaks to the 2nd layer. I decided to go with 2 layers of 3/4 ply as it seemed like alot to ask from one layer. I made a half round cutout at the bottom for a piece of PVC to act as a gutter drain to let any water pass should any get in there.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6383.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6383.jpg.html)
I then tried the pattern on the starboard side and it fit a bit tight. So i transferred it to cardboard which was a little easier to tweak to shape. I was able to fit the starboard side without having to glass another pattern
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6384.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6384.jpg.html)
I then dry fit the finished bulkhead blanks and screwed them together where they fit best. I then ran a rounding router edge bit over the edges that are not touching anything so I can wrap glass around it easier.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6385.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6385.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6387.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6387.jpg.html)
Tomorrow I will drill 2 alignment holes, un screw them from each other, glass a piece of 1.5 oz chopped strand between them, screw them back together, and resin the remaining surfaces and edges and let it set for a day. Then I wil install them completely encapsulating them and glassing them to the hull with biaxial.
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Sweet work Koz :salut:
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Great way to pull a pattern!! beats the tar out of a spiling batten.. Before you glass the frame in is the hull side fair? :scratch:
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Thank you Gran!
Dburr, not really sure what you mean by "is the hull side fair". If you can clarify or rephrase the question I would be happy to answer it.
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Fairly productive day, in fact more so than I thought it would be based on the possible complexity of getting these bulkheads in.
I took the 2 halves, glassed 1.5 oz chpped strand between them and screwed them together. I let them set up for a few hours. Then I mixed West systems 404 powder into some resin and made a paste. 404 is like cabosil except is is much harder, stronger and tougher to sand. It is a good structural filler and not a good fairing compound because it is tough to sand. I basically spread it over a marked line and set the bulkead into it and cleaned up the edges. It looks messy and it is a bit as the pictures do not do justice to how odd of a space this was to work in. It will glass just fine. I also think it was a wise move and worth the effort. The play and movement that the gunnels have was very obvious when I had the bulkheads dry fit in place and I tried to move the gunwale in and out. There was movment enough to justify my actions.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6394.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6394.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6395.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6395.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6397.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6397.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6398.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6398.jpg.html)
So it wouldnt go to waste, I used the remaining mixture to fair out the tops of the stringers a bit.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6389.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6389.jpg.html)
Then I glassed both the port and starboard lower halves. Tomorrow I will glass the upper halves.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6405.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6405.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6406.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6406.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6407.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6407.jpg.html)
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Here is a phot I promised about something I mentioned earlier when I was pouring foam. These foam dribbles actually bled through the fiberglass. They are not spills.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6400.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6400.jpg.html)
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Does anyone know what originally went over these holes? This is how I got the boat. I would love to replace the original equipment if possible
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6401.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6401.jpg.html)
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Nice work Koz!
I was only concerned that with the hull sitting on a trailer with the insides out and the cap loose that you might inadvertently galss the frames in with the hull slightly out of shape or not fair.. As long as the shape is pleasing to your eye with no flat spots or unwanted bumps/ridges then you're all set! :salut:
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Great point Dave. I never thought of the fairness of the hull. Damn, one more thing to obsess over! Lol. This one brace will have little effect on the hull if it is off a hair. I think I should definitely make sure all is fair and square before setting the floor. The bond of the floor to the gunwales and the stringers will be integral to holding its shape. I wouldn't even know where to start to measure it out but ill figure something out. Thanks for bringing it to my attention as I never though of that!
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Koz,
I screwed up your prior post. I must have hit EDIT instead of QUOTE. :oops:
If you don't mind, please repost the deleted photos and text to your post.
This is what I meant to post.
Does anyone know what originally went over these holes? This is how I got the boat. I would love to replace the original equipment if possible
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6401.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6401.jpg.html)
This is what I replaced mine with. They are somewhat smaller in the middle but are a better quality insert. You can see the original type above and below. Those were what was used in my 84 CCP. The newer type is good looking and stronger. I'll get you a link. SeaBob turned us on to several styles of these. I think you would find them a great replacement.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/rod_grommet.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=5921&title=rod-grommet&cat=500)
Here ya go. Several styles. Resource forum to the rescue. :thumleft:
viewtopic.php?p=83102#p83102 (http://www.classicaquasport.com/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?p=83102#p83102)
Or these.
http://www.searay-parts.com/rod-box-gro ... twhite.htm (http://www.searay-parts.com/rod-box-grommets-p/grommetwhite.htm)
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Thanks Bob! I appreciate the links and the help. That sea ray parts site has some cool one off stuff. Problem is for some reason my cutouts are 3 inches which neither site has a grommit for. However, being it seems to just be a grommit, I may just edge it with the white vinyl clip on edging. I think that should be okay unless I search for a 3 inch grommit. Not that big of a deal. I am only doing one side for now as the starboard side I am going to dedicate to some sort of fishing net storage area. I hate when the net is in the rocket launcher and it always seems to be in the way. I think that flat tall space may be a good place for it.
My gears are turning as it is to make best use of those spaces. I wont need them for rods as I have 8 in the rear and I will have 4 to 6 in a rocket launcher. I only fish with 2 rods!
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This is bad.....
my wife is already filling out the missing persons report.
with much to be done and the days running short I decided to string a run of 4 construction lights. I have 60 watt bulbs in them. Its like daylight in there. With the tarp over its like Vegas... I wont know if its day or night and I will just keep working
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6409.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6409.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6413.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6413.jpg.html)
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So in order to add those bulkhead supports I had to remove the forward built in rod holders. Im glad I did as most of the mounting holes were stripped out. 1 sterp forward and 2 steps back. I will have to replace all the wood backing around the edge that gave the screw something to bite into. It was like 1/4 inch scrap that was glassed there, I may go 3/8's or half. I also had a small hole in both panels that I wanted to repair. I am going to leave the port rodholder as is layout wise for now, but the starboard one I am planning on converting to a net holder. more to come..
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6402.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6402.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6403.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6403.jpg.html)
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Thanks Bob! I appreciate the links and the help. That sea ray parts site has some cool one off stuff. Problem is for some reason my cutouts are 3 inches which neither site has a grommit for. However, being it seems to just be a grommit, I may just edge it with the white vinyl clip on edging. I think that should be okay unless I search for a 3 inch grommit. Not that big of a deal. I am only doing one side for now as the starboard side I am going to dedicate to some sort of fishing net storage area. I hate when the net is in the rocket launcher and it always seems to be in the way. I think that flat tall space may be a good place for it.
My gears are turning as it is to make best use of those spaces. I wont need them for rods as I have 8 in the rear and I will have 4 to 6 in a rocket launcher. I only fish with 2 rods!
Steve, give our friend Frank a call. He does beautiful work, and can make the rings to any size/shape you spec.
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=10328 (http://www.classicaquasport.com/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=10328)
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Thats some pretty stuff Gran. Thanks!
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slow going the last week or two. I cleaned up the tops of my gunwale braces. Ground the not so nice biaxial stray ends off of just the top radius and capped it with 2 layers of 1.5 chopped strand. Basically just to waterproof it and make sure there wasnt any exposed wood.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6426.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6426.jpg.html)
I also finished up backing the front rod holder insert cutouts with 1/2 inch ply. I sandwiched a strip of 1.5 oz chopped strand between the plywood and the hull, then used the mounting screws to pull it all together. Came out really good except I am going to have to buy longer screws to really get a good bite when I re assemble.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6430.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6430.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6427.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6427.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6432.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6432.jpg.html)
Its hard for me to believe that this is a factory bulkhead for the anchor locker but it looks that way. I dont want to offend anyone as I love my boat as well, but more and more I am let down as I find crap like this to show that the quality of the original build is not as good as I thought. Maybe my boat was was an end run or a friday afternoon special. This is absolute crap work :puker:
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6435.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6435.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6437-1.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6437-1.jpg.html)
However.... I will make it better :cheers:
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6438.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6438.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6445.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6445.jpg.html)
Dont fall in love with that anchor locker door.... its going to be replaced with a similar to original teak louver door. I am going to retro fit the door I have from my 200CCP.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6440.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6440.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6442-1.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6442-1.jpg.html)
... but first, I have to do a little fixing up of the keel. I want to wrap the entire keel to close off any voids and pin holes like you see here in the roving.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6444-1.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6444-1.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6443-1.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6443-1.jpg.html)
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(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6435.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6435.jpg.html)
Yup, that was pretty rough workmanship :roll:
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Looks almost identical to the bulkhead in my 19-6 :shock: I just had to re-glass mine back to the hull as it wasn't rotten or soft :cheers: , but it was only origionally half-a$$ed glassed by 1 4" piece of roven on the sides that only went about halfway down, coated both sides with thickened resin and used 8 inch cloth to re-glass it back..better now :thumright: Looking at the pic of your cap bottom that you took from the opening you just put the new wood around, and the cap bottom looks to be in great shape in the pic, are you planning to pull the cap or work with it in place :scratch: Your doing some good work here, especially since thinking that your using parts from 2 boats :thumright:
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Koz are you going to have a drain in the bottom of the anchor locker? Great progress!!
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Gman, usually the cap is left in place on the CCP rebuilds. Unlike the flatbacks, the cap is massive on these. Plus, I do not see a reason or think of a reason to pull the cap. You got me on how to get that thing up and off. Im basically done with the gunwwale work. The rest of work is floor and transom. The transom bait prep station will have alot of pieces from the 200 CCP. If I can get the transom closed off in time I can work on that mold over the winter. It is really going to set the boat apart. I have 2+ years of ideas to tweak into that piece. It will definitely be an adventure to make it.
Dburr, yes, I will cut in a half round PVC once I clean up the tip of the keel so I know what kind of profile I am working with. I dont want one too big because if something should fall in there its gone forever. I may even stuff it loosely with a piece of bronze wool
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Today I started checking the boat to see if its relatively fair and true sitting on the trailer, and in the same effort, to start preparing the stringer heights for the floor. The original floor was mounted to the stringers with puddles of a concrete like mud. I want to bring the stringer heights higher where needed to minimize the amount of mounting mixture I will have to ooze in there. Being I am sliding the floor sections from stern to bow in order to fit in the exsiting floor pockets, I am not going to be able to spooge up the stringers with peanut butter and lay the floor sections into them. I havent quite figured that out yet. I may be on my back in the bilge with a concrete bag (cake decorators bag) and fill the gaps floor section by section. It will all come to me as I dry fit the floor sections in someday.
Here I used string to see how far off the bottom of the floor was from the stringer.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6476.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6476.jpg.html)
I made this mark in spots where the string was touching so I could reference these points as needed to confirm height and trueness
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6481.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6481.jpg.html)
From day 1 I kept a bucket of all the glass cut off scraps to use as needed
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6480.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6480.jpg.html)
I used scraps and new pieces to fair out the stringers and raise their height to the string. When all is said and done the stringers will get one last 20 inch wrap along the entire length of the stringer with biaxial . When you take into account reinforcing the cuts ive made and covering the foam holes there really is very little stringer untouched. So im going to make it uniform and make a final run bow to stern. At the end of the day, this will have me at 2 layers of biaxial covering/repairing a replaced section of original stringer, up to 5 layers replacing/recreating missing section of stringer, and 1 layer everywhere else
It looks like one piece but its not. Its many scraps under it to fill the low spots to make the top piece acceptably straight and high. These were all spots where various cuts and fills were made. Keep in mind that moving the console forward rendered all the factory rigging cutouts useless.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6478.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6478.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6479.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6479.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6477.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6477.jpg.html)
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Coming along nicely Koz :thumright:
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Thanks John! The progress feels great. I am looking forward to finishing up these elementary repairs so I can get to the creativity and attempt to breathe life into the ideas and plans that have been swirling in my head for about 3 years now. The fiberglass itch totally sucks but im enjoying the trip overall.
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Powder up with baby powder before glass work
Really helps
Capt Matt
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Koz, I'm sorry that it takes me a little while sometimes, but I told you I would get a video of wetting out glass and I finally did. I know these parts aren't huge, but the theory is the same. My experience is to get the resin out of the pot and spread out so that it doesn't keep as much heat and in turn slows the cure.
I'm sure there is a better way, but this is what works for me. I hope it helps someone at some point.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-2eUZ4qQps
Looking good, and keep up the good work! :salut:
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Carl, thanks for posting the video. I see what you mean now and I could use that in some applications. I would think that you have to wet out the surface as well to make sure there is enough resin to make a good bond between the glass the the surface. Thanks for sharing.
Matt, the baby powder works good. My problem is I am doing the work in my spare time a few hours here and there. I would have to coat my neck, torso and arms in baby powder to work for a few hours, then clean up to move on with my day. I try to wear a poncho when im grinding but sometimes you just cant get out of the dust. For example, I was grinding out the bulkhead tabs in the anchor locker. Thats a small enclosed place. the fan from the grinder swirled the glass into a dustbowl in that small space. I guess it comes with the project to either protect yourself properly or itch for a while. My arms and hands are fairly used to it and im not so bothered by it. For me the worst is my chest and sides, hate that!!! I went to a discount store (Marshalls) and bought 5 long sleeve dress shirts for $2 each. Im on to the 3rd one. As they glass up I throw them out. For $2 its not even worth washing as you never get all that glass out. I button them all the way up to try to keep the stuff out but I think it works its way through the fibers of the clothes eventually. A resipirator is manditory. Forget those crappy paper masks, I have a twin canister 3M mask which keeps everything out, glass and styrene.
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Starboard stringer is complete! All I have left to do is clean up the fiberglass edges around the rigging tubes and its done. Tomorrow I hope to finish the port stringer. I went through a gallon and a pint of resin today. I have about a gallon left out of 5 gallons! I dont know where it all went.
I look forward to finishing the port stringer so I can move on to finishing the anchor locker bulkhead and a coat of biaxial over the keel. After that I will switch gears and gel coat the anchor locker and the entire bilge, stringer to stringer. Its amazing how porous fiberglass can be. Just today when I was prep sanding the stringers I noticed a soft spot where I was sure the foam didnt get to. So i drilled a small hole and mixed a half pint of 2 lb foam. As it rose it came through the pores in some of my new biaxial. I think the only sure fire way to keep the stringers dry is to make sure they are coated and encapsulated.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6590.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6590.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6598.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6598.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6580.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6580.jpg.html)
Fairly flat, level and raised to height. I will not need as much peanut butter as was there before to bond my floor to the stringer.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6581.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6581.jpg.html)
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I think the only sure fire way to keep the stringers dry is to make sure they are coated and encapsulated.
What is your plan? Are you going to coat the inside of the hull to seal it then?
I would think that you have to wet out the surface as well to make sure there is enough resin to make a good bond between the glass the the surface.
Yes, it needs to be primed with resin because it will pull resin out of the laminate.
Those stringers look good. :thumleft:
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Here's another lil tip to maybe think about while you're grinding fiberglass, I used a 5 gal. shop vac with filters and a bag in it , left it running while I was gringing glass and just let the hose end hang right above or beside the place I would be grinding....kept alot of the flying particles down and off me, not all though...you will have to clean the filters out every day, they will clog up...but I usually got a full day out of them befroe having to take them out to clean them.. :thumright: I also used swimmers goggles while grinding, and still used a twin cannistered mask as well..
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I think the only sure fire way to keep the stringers dry is to make sure they are coated and encapsulated.
Steven that is SOME progress man you're an animal!!!
One of the things that the boys who are in the production composite kayak business (glass/epoxy over fancy wood) do is to go with 3 coats of unthickened epoxy to fill the weave and to ensure all the little pin holes are filled. A local plywood skiff builder follows the same procedure but with vinyl ester. You are getting first hand exposure to how glass can be completely wet out but still not be impervious. There are other good options to seal up the bilge other then gel coat that are impervious and easier to work with, just wondering why gel?
:salut:
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Hey koz I’m not sure this has been asked. In the pic of the deck where it shows that the plywood doesn’t go all the way to the gunnel.. When you cut the rest of the deck out, did that 1 inch hold true all the way a round the deck to gunnel or just in the stern?
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Here's another lil tip to maybe think about while you're grinding fiberglass, I used a 5 gal. shop vac with filters and a bag in it , left it running while I was gringing glass and just let the hose end hang right above or beside the place I would be grinding......
Thanks Gman. I will have to rig something up for grinding the transom. Unlike the long runs of the stringers, there is no where for all that dust to go against the corners of the transom. Thats going to taste like .... :puker:
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Hey koz I’m not sure this has been asked. In the pic of the deck where it shows that the plywood doesn’t go all the way to the gunnel.. When you cut the rest of the deck out, did that 1 inch hold true all the way a round the deck to gunnel or just in the stern?
Yes and no. Its going to be quite a zig zag pattern due to how the floor was originally made. Being it was made up of square sections of plywood, the shape or profile of that floor pocket is also going to zig zag corresponding to the squares. This is going to be most prominent as the floor curves leading to the bow. In fact, there are two spots near the anchor locker where there is no pocket at all, the original floor tile was not even there. I ground through it and now its a hole
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6586.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6586.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6585.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6585.jpg.html)
So what am i left to work with and whats the plan?
I need the 3 inches I left on the original upper floor surface and the 5 inches of the lower to have something to fiberglass the new floor to without having to wrap glass up the gunwale. With that said I am going to have to cut the plywood to match whatever shape is inside the channel between the upper and lower floor sections. First I will grind that channel to clean it out and get all the wood off so I can have clean fiber glass to attach to. Then I wil take a fork (tuning fork, kitchen fork?) and stick one prong in the channel and the other prong above the channel so I can mark with a sharpie where the upper prong is to get a perfect line of the channels profile. I like the tuning fork because it is thick and blunt which makes it les likely to fall into a small crevice where 1/2 plywood wont fit.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6588.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6588.jpg.html)
Then I will drape heavyweight plastic from gunwale to gunwale and trace that line to create exact patterns. I will then transfer those patterns to plywood and have close to exact shape of what is needed to maximize fit and minimize pocketing. To me this is critical as the upper and lower remaining glass lips of the channel are all that I have to not only hold the floor up but to structurally link the gunwales to the floor. The plywood floor section will have biaxial set to the bottom side and will be set into that channel with a peanut butter mix of vinylester resin and west systems 404 mixture. Its similar to cabosil except it is the "strongest" they offer. The top will get a layer of biaxial (maybe 2) and a layer of 1.5 oz chopped strand to soften the imprint. The top layer will be glassed to the upper tab all the way to the curve of the gunwale but not into the curve. i want to finish sand a flat surface and not have to worry about sanding a rounded corner.
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I think the only sure fire way to keep the stringers dry is to make sure they are coated and encapsulated.
There are other good options to seal up the bilge other then gel coat that are impervious and easier to work with, just wondering why gel?
:salut:
Dave and Carl,
2 reasons. First, I bought 5 gallons of gelcoat and only need 3 or less. The price of 3 gallons was about the same as the price of 5.
Second, I want to get the hang of the gel coat gun (dump gun) as I never painted with one yet. I figure if I get a run or a spatter in the bilge I wont care at all. I hope to get at least a decent grip on how to use the gun before I go shooting the floor and the transom. I am using all gelcoat and no paint in the entire project. Gel coat is a pain to work with but can be patched or repaired at any time. Paint cannot be so easily touched up.
Also, gelcoat will look so much nicer than a few coats of green vinylester resin.
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Know you're looking to get some practice in with the new gun, but if you get in a hurry, you can roll the gel too.
In the bilge that is :wink:
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Rock on Steven that makes perfect sense!!!
Scotty's right on the rolling, just don't use cheap foam rollers :oops: :oops: unless you want foam bits in your gel... Don't ask.....! :roll: :shock:
I am nervous about using plastic for pattern stock.. The stuff stretches, doesn't stay where you want it and has a nasty habit of losing/changing shape.. If that is all you have it will get you sort of close and if you're going to fillet the edges it will work out..
There are dozens of ways to pull off a pattern, my favorite (and fastest so far) on an inside fit like a deck is to use a spilling batten made out of scrap and a compass that can be locked to a given size.. If you are interested in the procedure let me know and I will write it up..
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Rock on Steven that makes perfect sense!!!
Scotty's right on the rolling, just don't use cheap foam rollers :oops: :oops: unless you want foam bits in your gel... Don't ask.....! :roll: :shock:
I am nervous about using plastic for pattern stock.. The stuff stretches, doesn't stay where you want it and has a nasty habit of losing/changing shape.. If that is all you have it will get you sort of close and if you're going to fillet the edges it will work out..
There are dozens of ways to pull off a pattern, my favorite (and fastest so far) on an inside fit like a deck is to use a spilling batten made out of scrap and a compass that can be locked to a given size.. If you are interested in the procedure let me know and I will write it up..
Dave, good stuff on the pattern making. Lewis posted regarding the same maybe three years back. It was interesting, made perfect sense...yet in its simplicity was one of those methods where you smack yourself twice and say "Man...why didn't I think of that." Lewis called it the "Story Stick Method."
Edit: Appears in 2010 Rebuilds, "1973 19-6"
Sorry can't link, 'puter issues.
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Know you're looking to get some practice in with the new gun, but if you get in a hurry, you can roll the gel too.
Yes, i definitely want to shoot for practice, but I may "roll and tip" gelcoat in the outer bilges as there isnt much room to spray.
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Rock on Steven that makes perfect sense!!!
Scotty's right on the rolling, just don't use cheap foam rollers :oops: :oops: unless you want foam bits in your gel... Don't ask.....! :roll: :shock:
I am nervous about using plastic for pattern stock.. The stuff stretches, doesn't stay where you want it and has a nasty habit of losing/changing shape.. If that is all you have it will get you sort of close and if you're going to fillet the edges it will work out..
There are dozens of ways to pull off a pattern, my favorite (and fastest so far) on an inside fit like a deck is to use a spilling batten made out of scrap and a compass that can be locked to a given size.. If you are interested in the procedure let me know and I will write it up..
Dave, good stuff on the pattern making. Lewis posted regarding the same maybe three years back. It was interesting, made perfect sense...yet in its simplicity was one of those methods where you smack yourself twice and say "Man...why didn't I think of that." Lewis called it the "Story Stick Method."
Edit: Appears in 2010 Rebuilds, "1973 19-6"
Sorry can't link, 'puter issues.
Dave and Gran... do tell I am all ears. I would love to hear about another way. Spilling batten? Story stick method? I was thinking that 6 mil clear plastic would work pretty well. I need to see through it so I can see the marks on edge of the existing floor indicating my channel depth so I can transfer it to plywood.
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Ok, having trouble with pics from photo bucket. it keeps telling me "it was not possible to determine the dimensions of the image" and wont let me post IMG's. Help!
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ahhh... very interesting. Found story stick method.
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f36/sto ... 29321.html (http://www.airforums.com/forums/f36/story-stick-to-copy-irregular-shapes-29321.html)
It will have its use at some point. Good to know.
I think the floor plywood blank will be too intricate for this method. I would need dozens of "points" and I am expecting alot of irregularities due to the prior parquet floor.
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Ok, having trouble with pics from photo bucket. it keeps telling me "it was not possible to determine the dimensions of the image" and wont let me post IMG's. Help!
Certain times of the month it will do that :roll:
Just upload and post one pic at the time.
You are right, the clear plastic method will get 'er done.
Getting to the fun part now, great job :thumright:
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Steven sorry, been a long day.. If it isn't to late I will post tomorrow night...
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Stringers are done!!!! Keel is done!!!
This post is actually 2 days worth of work as I was having trouble posting pics.
Port stringer is glassed.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6593.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6593.jpg.html)
Nice and flat
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6594.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6594.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6595.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6595.jpg.html)
I have purposely stopped short of the end of the stringers as I will finish these off by tying them into the transom.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6597.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6597.jpg.html)
Day two:
I sanded the bilge/keel area the entire length of the boat from stringer to stringer in preparation for both glassing the keel and for the gel coating. I use a 7 inch flap sander attached to a variable speed polisher. I find that you can set the speed just right to get a good grind but without throwing a cloud of dust. I also think it keeps the sanding pad working better as you do not create as much heat thus the paper doesnt load up with melted resin. I also use the wire wheel to rough up the gelcoat in woven roving. I dont want to sand it flat just scratch the surface so new gel coat will stick.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6628.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6628.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6614.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6614.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6619-1.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6619-1.jpg.html)
This is how I finished up the keel at the transom for now until i tie it into the new transom. Yes, i still have to grind the transom clean.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6623-1.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6623-1.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6612.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6612.jpg.html)
rigging tube ground clean of all the fiberglass. I will get those few resin spots with a dremel later
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6621-1.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6621-1.jpg.html)
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Heres a little unorthodox tool i use. I cant see how you could move alot resin around biaxial cloth with a soft chip paint brush. I use a mini dust pan broom. :shock: It works amazingly well. The bristles are stiff poly (plastic) so not only are they great for stippling the resin into the glass, the poly cleans up super easy with acetone. The brush in the picture has endured 5 gallons of resin and counting. You can even move the glass into place a bit with these stiff bristles. it squegees really well and lets me work super fast when I have a large quantity of hot resin. I dont think I would have managed as well with a paint brush. works great with chopped strand and could be cut down with a saw if you needed it narrower. I have to order a few more.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6629.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6629.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6630.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6630.jpg.html)
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Nice progress Koz :salut:
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Looking good, and nice tip with the little brush :thumleft: . I've been using those small paint rollers for most of my work. They are only about an inch or so in diameter and about 6" long. They seem to work really well for moving the resin around fast and saturating the cloth.
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Getcha some regular paint rollers n trays. Save the brushes for corners and tight areas...
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Like a cavern between those stringers. I realize it's the camera angle but still....
Those stringers look huge. :shock:
Great documentation Koz. :thumright:
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Thanks Craig and dirt wheels, yes seems I need to get some rollers going as well. I'm going to give them a go on the transom which is next.
Capt Bob, that is no optical illusion. There is huge amount of space down there. Its wasted space but i guess the more storage room you have the more dead weight you are hauling. I am reinstalling the bow tub but that's pretty much just for life jackets anyway.
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I switched gears a bit yesterday and today and started working on a few molds. Being I am a few steps away from shooting gel coat, I figured now would be a good time to build molds so I can gel coat them at the same time. This is my first attempt ever at any serious mold making. I want to make my own jockey seat and my own in floor hatches with drains. I used the white particle board because it is flat and resin does not stick to the white easily. A little waxing and the mold will pop right out.
I came up with the idea of the single jockey seat once I realized that if I am going to partually enclose the console, there would no longer be any elbow room for 2 seats at the helm. There is only about 42 inches there. I then thought about how much I disliked the factory chair on a pedistal, followed by the flip back cooler seat which was just too low. Even in a little bit of rough I would be standing anyway. My longest travel time will be under an hour so the perfect choice for a stable, bumpy, fairly short ride is a jockey seat. I still have to add the mounting flange to the mold.
I took it one step further and built it around the 3 gallon garden pump sprayer that I am going to use for a fresh water sink at the stern. I am trying to be conscious to not overload the stern with equiptment (AKA dead weight), so I figured 30 pounds or so of water would sit nicely mid ship under the jockey seat. The seat will be mounted to the gas tank cover so I will simply run the hose along with the the fuel lines to the transom. I did not want a built in tank and an electric motor pump to maintain. I wanted the tank removable and easy to manage. It gives me about 3 full minutes of fresh water which will be enough to wash anything salty off of my lures and the bait/fish ick off my hands.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/singlejockeyseat.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/singlejockeyseat.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6680.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6680.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6768.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6768.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6769.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6769.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6767.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6767.jpg.html)
Next is the mold lenghts for the in floor hatches. The drawing below took me many nights to figure out and I hope it will work. It is upside down to illustrate what I am getting at. If you follow the scribbled line you will see the profile of what I believe will work for an in floor hatch. More to come on this one as pictures and my trials will display what I am trying to do. I am not a light man and I dislike the look, feel and rise of off the shelf plastic hatches. I want a strong hatch that will be flush with the floor and fell like the floor. They will be fiberglass blended into the floor forever eliminating the cutout and screws that alllow water to reach the plywood core in the first place.
I need two: one for the stern livewell/fish box, and the second for the front in floor storage bin. Both will drain to thru hulls. The front one will drain out the existing starboard/front thru hull originally used for the drain under the coffin box. My coffin box will more than likely never have anything wet in it, so if it ever does need to drain it can do so onto the deck. The stern will "Y" into the floor drain thru hulls which will most likely need to be moved forward due to the thicker 2" transom im planning on installing.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6773-1.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6773-1.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6683-1.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6683-1.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6771.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6771.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6772-1.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6772-1.jpg.html)
Tomorrow I will mount them to a 3/4 in board to hold everything in place. I plan on cutting the lenghts with a mitre saw just as you would cut a picture frame or door moulding, however in one corner I will have to incorporate a piece that will accomodate the drain. Like i said, tough to figure out and explain, but I will show you as I make it.
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My apologies for the delayed response, it has been a busy few days..
The spiling batten is a variation on the story stick. The biggest difference is the use of a compass. The principle goes back to simple geometry that some Greek dude came up with a long damn time ago, but us mortals failed to envision or recognize the usefulness of the obtuse rules that we all hated to memorize :roll: …
“An arc when drawn of a constant radius will produce a center when two or more arcs of identical length are drawn from points along that arc to define the center.” :idea:
In plank on frame construction a batten made up of smaller pieces of stock fastened together and temporarily fastened in place is used to get out the shape of the next plank using a compass set to desired dimension. The point of the compass is placed on the marking up the frame that defines the top edge of the new plank and an arc is swung on the batten. The compass point then goes on the existing plank top edge to define the bottom edge of the new plank and another arc is swung. This is done at each frame or at any point where the guy doing the spiling thinks it is necessary to get out the most accurate shape (in the case of the last plank or” shutter plank”). The batten is then pulled off the hull and placed on the planking stock and fastened down to keep accidents from happening. The compass is then used to swing multiple small arcs to define the center point of each arc on the batten. You end up with lots of little Xs that you then connect using a fairing batten and low and behold the shape is as closely defined as it can be using a pencil.
A fairing batten is nothing more than a clear straight piece of stock that bends relatively easily and consistently and is big enough to take a hold down nail without splitting or developing a hard spot. :oops: I have ¾ square poplar, cedar and white pine that all work well for long sections and ¼ and ½ square of the same woods for smaller stuff.. Some guys insist on only using hardwood and others will use acrylic.. Bottom line is use what you have access to and what works.
So, we make this work for us by gathering up some good scrap, (I have had decent success with 3/16 luan after sanding the surface with 220). For the area that you want to define you lay the scrap down in a rough approximation of the shape you want. For your deck I see a series of pieces that are 4-6 inches wide, held together with but blocks and gusseted in the corners. These would be divided into easily handled sections with cross bracing close enough to the interior sections that you need to get dimensions for, tank coffin corners, rigging tubes and such, so you can grab arcs for them at the same time…
Then you grab what you have determined to be the best compass for the job and start swinging long arcs (3-6 inches, longer if able) at as many points as you need to define the shape. The longer the arc you scribe the more accurate the center will be. The compass can be a set of trammel points, and old beam compass, your old drafting compass, or steal the one from your kids school bag..
The important piece is to have the compass be lockable and make damn sure once you start you maintain a constant radius for a given set of arcs. Nothing says you can’t use multiple radii if the spiling batten is a little too far from a point you want to take, but make SURE you note the different radii.
You then remove the batten from the boat and lay it on your decking material fasten it down and then start swinging the center points of all the arcs. The best set up would have the but blocks on top of the batten so it will lay flat on the decking stock. Once the points are down, connect them with the batten and your all set but for the cutting.
Hopefully this is clear enough, if not let me know and I will try and get you squared away. This is such a useful and easy way to define shapes that cannot be traced or lofted that once you figure it out, you will begin to use it anywhere you need to get a really good inside fit on a nonstandard shape..
:salut:
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:drunken: ...wow! Im going to have to digest that one slowly. Thanks for the detailed explaination. I will test it out and message you if I run into a snag.
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progress on the in floor hatch molds. I got the first mold of two roughed together. I have to detail out all the seams and cracks to get it ready to go. I am going to build a 2nd one as I have cut all the materials already. I will see which one turns out better and try to re use it to make 2.
Its nice to finally see this done. It has been quite a challenge for me to visualize how to create the negative of something. I look forward to making the door mold soon, and popping one out to see if it is in fact functional.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6775-1.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6775-1.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6777-1.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6777-1.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6779-1.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6779-1.jpg.html)
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My apologies for the delayed response, it has been a busy few days..
The spiling batten is a variation on the story stick. The biggest difference is the use of a compass. The principle goes back to simple geometry that some Greek dude came up with a long damn time ago, but us mortals failed to envision or recognize the usefulness of the obtuse rules that we all hated to memorize :roll: …
“An arc when drawn of a constant radius will produce a center when two or more arcs of identical length are drawn from points along that arc to define the center.” :idea:
In plank on frame construction a batten made up of smaller pieces of stock fastened together and temporarily fastened in place is used to get out the shape of the next plank using a compass set to desired dimension. The point of the compass is placed on the marking up the frame that defines the top edge of the new plank and an arc is swung on the batten. The compass point then goes on the existing plank top edge to define the bottom edge of the new plank and another arc is swung. This is done at each frame or at any point where the guy doing the spiling thinks it is necessary to get out the most accurate shape (in the case of the last plank or” shutter plank”). The batten is then pulled off the hull and placed on the planking stock and fastened down to keep accidents from happening. The compass is then used to swing multiple small arcs to define the center point of each arc on the batten. You end up with lots of little Xs that you then connect using a fairing batten and low and behold the shape is as closely defined as it can be using a pencil.
A fairing batten is nothing more than a clear straight piece of stock that bends relatively easily and consistently and is big enough to take a hold down nail without splitting or developing a hard spot. :oops: I have ¾ square poplar, cedar and white pine that all work well for long sections and ¼ and ½ square of the same woods for smaller stuff.. Some guys insist on only using hardwood and others will use acrylic.. Bottom line is use what you have access to and what works.
So, we make this work for us by gathering up some good scrap, (I have had decent success with 3/16 luan after sanding the surface with 220). For the area that you want to define you lay the scrap down in a rough approximation of the shape you want. For your deck I see a series of pieces that are 4-6 inches wide, held together with but blocks and gusseted in the corners. These would be divided into easily handled sections with cross bracing close enough to the interior sections that you need to get dimensions for, tank coffin corners, rigging tubes and such, so you can grab arcs for them at the same time…
Then you grab what you have determined to be the best compass for the job and start swinging long arcs (3-6 inches, longer if able) at as many points as you need to define the shape. The longer the arc you scribe the more accurate the center will be. The compass can be a set of trammel points, and old beam compass, your old drafting compass, or steal the one from your kids school bag..
The important piece is to have the compass be lockable and make damn sure once you start you maintain a constant radius for a given set of arcs. Nothing says you can’t use multiple radii if the spiling batten is a little too far from a point you want to take, but make SURE you note the different radii.
You then remove the batten from the boat and lay it on your decking material fasten it down and then start swinging the center points of all the arcs. The best set up would have the but blocks on top of the batten so it will lay flat on the decking stock. Once the points are down, connect them with the batten and your all set but for the cutting.
Hopefully this is clear enough, if not let me know and I will try and get you squared away. This is such a useful and easy way to define shapes that cannot be traced or lofted that once you figure it out, you will begin to use it anywhere you need to get a really good inside fit on a nonstandard shape..
:salut:
Time to give credit where credit is due.
Dave, that was an excellent post. Your fellow members appreciate the time spent, and logical directive :thumright:
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My pleasure Scotty!!
It was a revelation when I learned it and I am happy to share. :salut:
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progress on the in floor hatch molds. I got the first mold of two roughed together. I have to detail out all the seams and cracks to get it ready to go. I am going to build a 2nd one as I have cut all the materials already. I will see which one turns out better and try to re use it to make 2.
Its nice to finally see this done. It has been quite a challenge for me to visualize how to create the negative of something. I look forward to making the door mold soon, and popping one out to see if it is in fact functional.
(site wont let me post pics again... I will edit this post with pics asap)
Koz,
We did the same on mine. Ended up foregoing the Jim Black hatches and going with solid glass. Farley talked me out of it and I'm glad...it was a new build like yours.
The good news with the solid hatches....you can cam them down tight on rubber and eliminate drain runs on the deck. A thimbleful of water here and there won't sink a boat.
Koz, like how you thank our fellow members immediately for their posts. New members, review this thread. Notice when fellow members post....Koz recognizes and appreciates their effort first off.
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Gran,
No one owes me anything so I am super appreciative of someone taking their valuable time to comment. Ive said it before and ill say it many more times im sure.... i would not have ever thought to attempt this rebuild had it not been for this site. I am grateful and I wish to pay it forward with documenting as much as I can so others can benefit from my successes and mistakes. Thank you all!!!
:cheers: :cheers: :cheers: Lets build something great! :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
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Two links to spiling batten method
http://books.google.com/books?id=iYK_C4 ... od&f=false (http://books.google.com/books?id=iYK_C4t9kvoC&pg=PA158&lpg=PA158&dq=spiling+batten+method&source=bl&ots=EZXOGIhMhq&sig=qHBDhLOtKUGcoGcVtoxydMMl4hQ&hl=en&sa=X&ei=dYhdUpqyLIPfkQfO-ICgAQ&ved=0CHMQ6AEwDA#v=onepage&q=spiling%20batten%20method&f=false)
http://sandypointboatworks.com/index.ph ... pplication (http://sandypointboatworks.com/index.php/wood-boat-school/boat-building-articles-journals/plywood-boat-building/114-spiling-and-it-s-application)
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And you thought is was sniffing somethin good :drunken: :drunken: :bom: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
Juz wait till I whip out a ribband and whomp your horn timber so hard it knocks it into deadwood!!!!! :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
Time for some Nelson's Blood then catch a powder, been a long stretch of nights!!! :salut:
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:scratch: huh?
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Questionable shot at boat humor.. Tried to come up with a sentence where there was at least a double entaunte (sp?) in more then half the sentance using uncommon terms.... :drunken: :oops: :shock: :mrgreen:
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entendre, Dave, from the Fr., intendere, "to turn one's attention to"...
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That's the one SB... My spelling leaves a lot to be desired!!
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That's the one SB... My spelling leaves a lot to be desired!!
No prob Dave, CB turned off the French spellcheck... :wink:
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The only French I know SB I learned up in the woods form the loggers from Quebec :roll: :twisted: and Rick would give me the hairy eyeball if I used it :mrgreen: !
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The only French I know SB I learned up in the woods form the loggers from Quebec :roll: :twisted: and Rick would give me the hairy eyeball if I used it :mrgreen: !
I'm sure they had a certain "je nais se quoi"...as in the way they said "aller faire une sieste"...just sort of rolled off their tongues...
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It doesn't take a spell checker to see what you're saying there SB - just Google - still have to keep it clean no matter which language you use. :roll:
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Sorry Rick, couldn't resist. My bad...
But I betcha those Quebec loggers said that!
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Put a few more hours into today. I glassed the anchor locker bulkhead with 1.5 oz chopped strand, primed the fillet surfaces and placed the piece in place. I figure that will allow it to hold in place fairly well so I can fillet it in. I took Carl's (CallyB) advice and glassed the bulkhead on a sheet of plastic. worked well. There is a decent amount of space at the bottom of the bulkhead for the water to run out. I will probably stuff that with bronze wool or a piece of scotch brite pad. If I loose something in there its gone forever. Tomorrow I will fillet it in with biaxial and eventually gel coat the anchor locker and the entire bilge.
Yes, the keel is leaning a bit towards the port. One more reason I believe my boat HAD to be a monday morning/friday afternoon build on the last day of a production calendar!
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6817.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6817.jpg.html)
Added the mounting flange to the jockey seat mold. I beveled the edge with a 45 degree router bit then sanded it all smooth. Filled some of the gaps and rounded some of the corners with wood filler. Tomorrow I will final sand all the wood filler off and do the final prep before waxing it up for gelcoat
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6813.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6813.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6812.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6812.jpg.html)
Same thing with the in floor hatch molds... wood filler. They will also get a final sanding to smooth all the wood filler before waxing them up for gel coat
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6818-1.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6818-1.jpg.html)
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Beautiful work Koz :thumright:
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Steven is it too late for a PVC drain screen on the anchor locker? :scratch:
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Interesting Dave.... Hmmm, could be done. I can add a horizontal triangle with drain screen. That would be trick. It would definitely keep everything out but the water. It will be a bear to work in that spot. I dont know if its worth the effort but I'm a sucker for cool details so I may put that into play. Great looking out. Thank you for the advice.
Gran, thanks again for the encouragement. It helps keep me going!
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Hopefully I can save many of you alot of time with this post. The last 2 days I have been on the ultimate scavenger hunt to find an appropriate drain for my in floor hatches. Keep in mind as you read further that I did not want junky plastic or cast zinc crap. Only cast stainless or cast brass will do, no cheap thin stampings. Those you can find many of.
After looking through my stack of supplier catalogs (many of which I almost know by heart), with original drain in hand I set out to comb the marine suppy and the hardware stores. Turns out that the original drain under the coffin box technically isnt marine but standard plumbing. True, in many cases plumbing is plumbing and there is a fine line between Home Depot and a marine supply. Its actually most similar to the drain for a bath tub assembly. 1.5 inch wide thread.(Original on right)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6826.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6826.jpg.html)
The massive hurdle was that the drain pieces are not available seperately but as an entire tub drain assembly which in the cheapest case was $60! I was able to find an old school hardware store that had an old school heavy cast brass one laying around and a mis matched box at Home Depot that I got on the cheap. They are all brass/copper cast construction and are already at the 90 degree that I need to properly hook them up to the thru hull. I am super pleased but it took me two days and alot stops to figure it all out.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6823.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6823.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6822.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6822.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6821.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6821.jpg.html)
Below is the thru hull I am using with the Groco brand 90 degree tail piece attached. It is super heavy duty cast brass which is good for a thru hull but much too heavy for the floor drain. 1.5 inch wide thread, exactly like that plastic junk that came out of the boat. Pricey as the thru hull and the tail piece were about $45 each! Thats a $90 assembly shown, but do it once and do it right. This one goes in the forward starboard thru hull hole. I need the 90 degree to properly lead it to the front hatch. The rear floor drain thru hulls will also be the same heavy brass. I may have to move them forward a bit as they may not fit where the original holes are because I plan to go from a 1.5 inch thick transom to 2 inches. I still havent figured that out yet but ill let you know.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6827.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6827.jpg.html)
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A super sleuth :salut:
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Interesting Dave.... Hmmm, could be done. I can add a horizontal triangle with drain screen. That would be trick. It would definitely keep everything out but the water. It will be a bear to work in that spot. I dont know if its worth the effort but I'm a sucker for cool details so I may put that into play. Great looking out. Thank you for the advice
With all the care you are taking it seems like a minor detail but it will be the one to haunt you in a year or so.. PVC may bee the wrong stuff but it gives you the idea. Now that you have it all glassed in...., there is such an animal as a bronze corner drain for a shower. A little work with SB's air saw ($15 HF recip air saw with course hacksaw blade) would get the bottom couple inches off you bulkhead then the drain on a flange get glassed into place. Piece o cake... :roll: :roll: I just described 4 hrs of PIA work in a bastich of a spot for you.. Not to mention that I have not found a link for the drain yet. Are the elevations such that you could tie it to the deck drains and keep the funk out of the bilge?
We're here for you, ready and willing to spend your time and money!! :mrgreen:
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In the years to come you'll look back on these days and smile.
The thrill is in the hunt :salut:
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Thanks again Dave. I appreciate it. Personally I think a plumbed drain to a thru hull or to deck height would be overkill and I would lose alot of real estate in the locker bringing the floor high enough for the drain to fit and work properly. The amount of water that would come off the rope is minimal. I carry almost 600 ft of anchor rope as I fish the wrecks at times (70 ft depths X 7 feet per foot for proper holding in the rough = 420 ft). Most of the time I anchor in 20 ft of water for stripers (rockfish). I do love your idea of a screen of sorts in case I were to somehow drop something in there, which by all accounts is almost entirely unlikely to ever happen. I am going to the marine supply today to see what will work.
On the note of marine supply, I have to thank Fred Chall marine supply in Freeport NY. I love that place. The staff is excellent and if in the rare occurrence they don't have what I need they somehow manage to get it the next day. Their prices compare with and sometimes beat Internet pricing so it doesn't even make sense for me to order from the net. Chuck,... Poor Chuck, I don't know how this man doesn't run in the back when he sees me pull up. I have challenged him with quite a few unique situations and he always give 110% effort to get me what I need.
I'm heading there today for latches for the hatches. I almost forgot that I need to cast in the slam latches to hold these things closed. I'm running a piano hinge down the back so I don't have to deal with casting in hinges. I don't have much choice with the latches though, they have to be cast.
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Looks awesome Koz! :salut: Tracking down all of the little pieces (that you want) turns into a real challenge sometimes. I'm glad you found what you were looking for, keeping your resolve is sometimes the hardest thing with big projects like these.
Keep up the great work, and someday will get to add our boats to the fleet at the gathering!
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Keep up the great work, and someday will get to add our boats to the fleet at the gathering!
It would be so awesome to meet some of the people and boats that I have followed on here for years. Looks like you may be done before me. Im about 2 weeks from shutting down until the spring.
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Today I tabbed in the anchor locker bulkhead with 6 inch wide strips of biaxial.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6837.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6837.jpg.html)
I also worked on the "callyb" anchor locker drain. I bought a round perko vent plate. Its chromed brass. I cut the plywood at a 30 degree angle to fit in the spot a little better. I used a 1.5 inch hole saw. Tomorrow I will roto zip the glass out from over the hole, pilot drill the screw holes, dab all the cuts/holes with resin and screw on the cover.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6828.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6828.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6829-1.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6829-1.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6831-1.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6831-1.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6834-1.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6834-1.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/00683765-78f4-4515-a8d6-7e02434af2b7.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/00683765-78f4-4515-a8d6-7e02434af2b7.jpg.html)
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(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/seadoglatch.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/seadoglatch.jpg.html)
These are the latches I ordered for the in floor hatches.
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Looks like you may be done before me. Im about 2 weeks from shutting down until the spring.
I am fortunate enough to have a (very cramped) inside work space that I can heat... I forget sometimes that everyone doean't have that. :oops:
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Nice to see someone else tackle their own floor hatches with drains. Can't wait to see them pop out. :mrgreen:
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Shot some gel coat today. wiped everything down with acetone and masked off all the other areas with masking tape and plastic.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6894.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6894.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6895.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6895.jpg.html)
This was my practice run first time using a gel coat "dump gun". Let me tell you this thing can make anyone shoot like a pro. I was impressed at how such a low tech looking device shot gel coat so well. The set up was a breeze especially using the paper cup inserts. It shoots with a nice tight spread. It shot even and the control was great. There was practically no over spray. I was expecting a white cloud of haze under that tarp which there was none at all. I almost question the need for plastic draping the inside. I was very surprised. Clean up was insanely easy basically a little acetone through the tip. All you have to clean is the cover with the attached tip. I shot 1.5 gallons (4 x 24oz at a time) with cleanup in about an hour, maybe under an hour. The only down fall is you cannot take your finger off the trigger with the gun pointing down or it will drip out the tip of the nozzle. With that in mind it was super easy. I am relieved now that I have tried it that I will like the results.
I added wax to the gel coat as I planned to shoot only one sealer coat. Aside from testing the dump gun, keep in mind the purpose of this gel coat application was to seal the bilge so water cant collect where its not supposed to and cause me trouble. The surfaces are obviously not flat and finished. There are fiberglass sections laid rough and in many directions which would have been sanded flat if it were a finished surface. No one will ever see it. Its one more layer of peace of mind to keep the boat sealed tight.
I got the gun and all my fiberglass products at Reinforced Plastics Lab in Farmingdale NY (631-249-5490, http://www.reinforcedplasticslab.net (http://www.reinforcedplasticslab.net)) for $165. They have been very helpful to me and its great to be able to pick up commercial grade products and quantities close to home at internet prices.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6896-1.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6896-1.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6897-1.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6897-1.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6899-1.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6899-1.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6901-1.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6901-1.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6903-1.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6903-1.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6910-1.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6910-1.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6917.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6917.jpg.html)
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Looks good Koz. :salut:
Thanks for the guidance. So where was the dripping coming out of? The trigger itself? Is there a vent in the trigger?
What size tip does it have? #6?
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Excellent job! What size compressor did you use? I have never shot gel coat either, and I'm a bit intimidated by it. Thanks for sharing this experience!
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Looks good Koz. :szalut:
Thanks for the guidance. So where was the dripping coming out of? The trigger itself? Is there a vent in the trigger?
What size tip does it have? #6?
Yes it's a #6. It drips out the tip itself. Basically how the can is designed is the tip screws into the lid, almost like a drinking straw in a cup. The tips diameter is almost that of a drinking straw and there isn't a check valve or a mechanism to stop the gel coat from pouring out other than facing the tip upwards. The website has the #6 tip at 3/16. This is addressed in the instructions as it says to not leave it facing downwards without the trigger depressed. As we know, gel coat is thick so it needs a large opening to flow properly. The red thing is a pencil for size reference.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6922.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6922.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6924.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6924.jpg.html)
Make sure the tip comes past the housing. Being it was a new gun, it was super tight and the first time i used it I didnt have the tip all the way forward. I knew immediately that something wasnt right. I pressed a bit harder and it clicked in better. Today I ended up beveling the inside leading edge of the tip housing with some 400 grit sandpaper to make it recieve the tip better and not beat the O-ring up so much. Its a touch chewed already. As a precaution, with the gun i purchased an O-ring kit.
Make sure the tip comes past the housing like in the pic below:
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6923.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6923.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6926.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6926.jpg.html)
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Excellent job! What size compressor did you use? I have never shot gel coat either, and I'm a bit intimidated by it. Thanks for sharing this experience!
I'm not really sure. I would have to say its a 3hp at least. Its a old school 220 volt twin piston compressor. I would think its safe to say you need alot of air to shoot gel. I believe the recommended pressure is around 80 lbs. One website has this gun needing 5.8 CFM at 80 lbs. Most compressors list CFM's on the unit. A small pancake compressor is not going to do it. An HVLP gun would probably use less pressure but they are a bear to clean properly. You have to take Half the gun apart. Also, off the shelf most come with a 1.4 or 1.8 mm tip where you need at least a 2.4 mm to shoot gel. Its not hard to get but Home Depot or Harbor Freight doesn't stock the oversized tips.
I too had some level of intimidation of the unknown thus the reason I shot the bilge first. There is only one "flow" knob on the dump gun so I was able to get the hang of it fast. The trick to any perfect finish is thinner coats many times. The thought of one thick coat is setting yourself up for runs. In a mold or in my bilge I didn't care. If I were shooting the hull or especially a vertical surface, I would approach it with multiple light coats. Just make sure you have gel coat without wax for the multiple coats, then add the wax or TFA (tack free additive as my shop labels it) for the final coat. The wax provides an air free barrier which will allow the gel to fully cure but will need to be sanded off before adding another coat. Gel coat without wax will stay tacky to the touch and is not fully cured, but will bond well to additional coats. Same applies to resin. If you are applying fiberglass then gel coat later, only the last gel coat layer needs the wax. Every layer that over the last acts as the air free barrier. For example, the 3rd layer of glass will seal the 2nd layer, and the first layer of gel will seal the glass under it.
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Been prepping and shooting the molds the last 2 days.
I used modeling clay to set the drain and the latch catch how I want them to be. I wanted the drain to be the lowest point, thus I had to raise it in the mold.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6927.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6927.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6929.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6929.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6930.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6930.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6931.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6931.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6934.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6934.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6935.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6935.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6937.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6937.jpg.html)
There were a few considerations with the hatch latch catch (lol... well thats what it is!). First, there was a slight manufacturing oversite in that the height of the cut out in the catch does not perfectly match the height of the latch. So if installed evenly, the door would have crept upwards a bit. This would have drove me bonkers!!! So to correct this, I had to place thin washers under the catch to position it perfectly. The catch will end up being recessed downward into a floor a fraction but it is what it is. Second, the horizontal of the catch is up against a surface that was cut at 5 degrees, so that difference had to be filled in with clay. Lastly, the space where the catch itself will rest needed to be voided so thats what the rectangle block of clay is for. I didnt want to have to dremel out a hole later. I want it to be as perfect as possible. Details details! You can never seal too much. After shooting gelcoat today, Ive learned that it really doesnt like to bridge a gap so sealing eveything will help. I should have caluked the bottom edge of the wood insert to the white board. I had to hit that with a brush to get the gel coat in there which is going to leave me a edge that will have to be sanded off.
The gun is great but does not like narrow crevices of the floor hatch molds. It is a fairly focused spray pattern that doesnt "fog" to its surroundings too easily without first dumping alot at the focus point. Its like a lazer pointer versus a regular flashlight. I basically had to shoot and tip with a brush to get it all spread right. It didnt come out as even as I would have liked but that was due to trying to get gel coat in those crevices. You cant sand it or disturb the gle coat or it will lift off of the waxed mold. Definitely not as easy to shoot the intricate mold as I had hoped. I definitely have some thickness to the gel coat now. I will even it out with the first coat of fiberglass. I bought 10 yards of 3/4 oz chopped strand specifically for the first coats of glass. It is super thin and will practically melt into any tight spot i need it to go into. To make sure I have no voids, I will mix up a "mayonaise" of West Systems 404 (like cabosil but stronger) to bed the first layer of glass into. This way if the glass doesnt want to bend into some of the sharper corners the 404 will fill the void as well as where it wont lay perfectly flat because of gel coat runs. The jockey seat mold shot better but it was still tough to get it all the way to the bottom where I have a blank for the opening in order to turn the glass downwards and have a nice edge when I lift the seat. I ended up mixing a batch of gel coat and pouring it at the bottom to make sure that was covered enough. There is no turning back now. Looking to get some glass down tomorrow.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6955.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6955.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6954-1.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6954-1.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6951.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6951.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6950.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6950.jpg.html)
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Wow that is really cool! Looking forward to seeing it popped out! :thumright: :thumleft:
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X2 :!:
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today I wanted to touch up the molds. I mixed some West Systems 404 with some gel coat to make a paste. I used ice cream sticks, west systems sticks, a spreader and a paint brush to apply it smooth.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6969.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6969.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6966.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6966.jpg.html)
you can use the round edge of various sized ice cream sticks to get a perfect bevel. works pretty good with 5200 and other caulks as well.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6968.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6968.jpg.html)
before and after. These are now fairly ready for glassing. Im sure the gel coat is thicker than it needs to be but this will give me some meat to sand down any imperfections. Also, this is my first time ever doing anything like this so its a learning curve.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6965a.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6965a.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6972a.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6972a.jpg.html)
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Great work Koz.
Like other members, I look forward to seeing the "positive" molded piece when you pop it off. I too have trouble visualizing the "negative" aspects of the mold itself on something more intricate than say the hull itself.
This is very interesting stuff. :thumright:
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Another great fillet maker and spreader are used gift cards :idea: .. The big iTunes ones are really cool because there is enough to trim into custom shapes and keep a good handhold... :thumright:
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Thanks Capt Bob. Creating the "negative" has been the challenge and admittedly the lure of these project pieces. It took me a long time to "see" what I wanted to make. Those corners with the drains alone took me days to "see". I hope these pieces turn out functional. The work load on these has been tremendous. I really don't want to make them again from scratch. So far so good I think.
Dave, that's a great idea. Ill have to hold on to the used ones. Thank you
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I have a massive, ever growing respect for anyone that works with fiberglass. Before I get into my night, I want to give thanks to "GasserGlass" from youtube. He has about 50 videos on there, many of them about mold making. I definitely had a thing or two that I learned from his videos ring a bell today.
I laid the first layer of glass on one of the in floor hatch molds. I used 3/4 oz chopped strand. I first cut all the fiberglass pieces to go exactly how and where I needed them to go. I ended up with 8 pieces, 2 for each side. GasserGlass stresses that it is important to have well cut pieces for the molds and to not just slap glass anywhere. I filled the corners with a "peanut butter" of West Systems 404 before I layed in the first piece of pre-wetted glass in. I then used a paint brush and a tiny roller to get it set in place.
I was a bit tense as it is quite important that this layer set down perfectly. Why so??? Im sure there are spots on our Aquasports where the gel coat seemed to chip off and there is a void with nothing behind the gelcoat, usually in a corner or a sharp bend. That is a result of the gel coat getting sprayed on the mold, but the fiberglass layed after it didnt quite make it into all the same bends and crevices that the gel coat made it into. This is what I am trying to avoid. I think I did well. The 3/4 oz chopped strand glass is so thin that it practically melts when wet so it formed fairly easily. This coat came out as perfect as I wanted it to and I dont think I will have any empty voids. The next layers are to reinforce this layer so I dont have to be as careful of voids. Im going to do the next layer using 1.5 oz chopped strand then I will use 2408 Biaxial to really stiffen it up. Its tedious work and I look forward to finishing them. This step took me over two hours from cutting the glass to cleanup. The photos may also now be a bit more clearer as to what is what on the mold. Obvoiusly the green is the piece and white is the mold. The stray ends will be cut clean both along the outer perimeter edge and the inner edge where the green meets the white.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_7071.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_7071.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_7072.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_7072.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_7073.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_7073.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_7079.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_7079.jpg.html)
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Koz, THAT IS SWEET :!: Now hurry up and finish it so we can see it :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Seriously cool!!!
If/when you repeat this whaddabout trying to vacuum bag and maybe inject the resin? Would that save you any time?
Chris (dirtwheels) did his transom that way with an old fridge compressor and it worked out slick!
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Carl, I know, right !?!? I totally can't wait to see one done, more so as a relief to see if they are really going to function as i want them to or did i miss something. What's going to suck even more is I'm going to give the glass 5 days to cure before I attempt to pop it from the mold.
Dave, I was thinking the same thing in that vac bagging would definitely squeeze it all together. It is definitely going to be a bit tough to get heavier glass to bend like that. However, I wouldn't know where to start with the bagging technique and equipment, and I doubt I could get film to contour to that valley. I guess if I were going to do many of them I would have to figure something out. All I need is two so I will tough them out old school for now. If I were to do them again I would make the valley about 1/4 inch wider and taper the inner wall 5 degrees towards the center to give me a bit more room to get in there.
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I did a hatch with rounded corners with nothing but 1708 and popped mine out the next day. I made it a few months back during the summer. check my rebuild out "1987 CCP222".
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I did a hatch with rounded corners with nothing but 1708 and popped mine out the next day. I made it a few months back during the summer. check my rebuild out "1987 CCP222".
Thanks Fish, great work! I've been following your build as well. Awesome work. I saw your hatch. You went with a wider gutter where I went deeper. Its my deep narrow crevice that is giving me grief. Ill have it glassed in the next day or two so we'll see how it turns out. I look forward to seeing yours finished.
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Looking really good Koz.
Being this is your first (and I haven't done one at all), what is the plan for popping it out? That little ridge looks like it'll make it a challenge - wonder if you cut a couple strips of resin-ed 2408 and strapped them across the hatch in an X if it would give you something to pry up with from the center of the hatch?
Just thinking aloud here :roll:
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Thanks Rick! Popping them out should be relatively easy (famous last words lol). The outer perimeter will be ground vertically right down to the wood form. The top horizontal surface where the white meets the green will also be ground down to the wood form. Once popped out, the finished side of the outermost horizontal surface has to be tapered down with a grinder anyway to blend into the fiberglass of the actual floor. Therefore, the entire outermost horizontal flange can take a beating with wedges if need be without any real damage done to the finished product. All but the inner wall is tapered and I'm not afraid to break the molds apart if need be.
If this isn't clear, it will be soon as I will of course document the process.
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A flange helps not only for mounting on the floor but also gives an area to place a wood wedge to help pry up the fiberglass piece. It should come out easy it you waxed and sprayed multiple coats of mold release.
I was so excited when mine popped right out and the gel coat was all smooth and glossy. :cheers:
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I finished one of the hatches today. I added a layer of 3/4 oz chopped strand then 2804 biaxial. I thought I had 1408 biaxial but turns out I have 2408. The 3/4 went down fine but the 2408 does not like to bend so I have some voids where I tried to get it to bend around the higher ridge. it slightly "umbrella'ed" over some of that ridge. Im not thrilled but im okay with it. For the next mold I will have to wrap that high ridge a few times with 3/4 chopped strand instead, but I will lay a small thin strip of biaxial horizontally on that ridge under the 3/4 chopped strand for reinforcement. The inner "valley' worked out pretty good as I folded the biaxial in half and jammed it in there with a plastic scraper. The outer flange and the first rise next to it did well with the 2408 as it took to the "L shape" pretty well. Basically I have to avoid that "u turn" for the next one. Should be strong as hell.
These are the patterns that were cut:
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_7109.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_7109.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_7110.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_7110.jpg.html)
Finished!!! Mean, thick and ugly
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_7111.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_7111.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_7112.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_7112.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_7119.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_7119.jpg.html)
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This is the lay up schedule that I will do on the next one. It is not what I did on the 1st first but is basically a "live and learn" improvement. This should work awesome without any voids from the biaxial pulling "umbrella-ing" from the mold because it doesnt want to horseshoe bend. The difference is the discontinuation of the "blue" (biaxial) line over the top of the bend.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6682a.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6682a.jpg.html)
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On my straight runs I used one continuous piece of 1708 and used a bonds spreader to push it into the tight spots. Then around the corners I cut out rounded pieces to wrap corners. It was a bitch but worked out fine. One thing to think about is making your filets bigger so you cut down on the voids that you are worried about. Keep up the good work.
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That's a damn brick chicken house Steven! Outstanding! Cutting the 2408 and laying on the trough base like that will give you a mini I-beam, that will work nicely!
Caffeine deficient thought, the seal lip is going to be the major weight bearer, any point in laying a backing piece of glass there too? It WOULD be overkill but whatthehell, go big or go home :roll: , or go home big :mrgreen: !
Me, I'll be over here behind the bench in the cheap seats....
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Thanks Fish, I appreciate the advice. I used a spreader as well to jam the glass in as well as a super small roller. It worked out. My biggest concern were the corners. The straight runs are easy its the corners where I tried to overlap at least one of the faces (top or side) with each progessive layer.
dburr, I see what you mean, and with the lay up schedule diagram it looks like I could add a strip on the sealing lip, but in practice the underside of the sealing lip turned out super strong. The glass layers have almost filled in that valley and I doubt there is any way I am getting any bend or flex in this piece. Keep in mind you have the finishing wall on the very inside which adds a ton of structural strength as well.... see the next post and it may be a bit clearer......
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its nice to see the site up and running. Yesterday was a scary day for me without my classic aquasport.com!
Well, i popped the piece off the mold today. Its totally safe to say the mold cannot be reused. I trimmed the edges with a cut off wheel to expose my wedge line. I started hammering in the wedges and immediate the mold started to loosen. I was so excited at how easy it was.... until i realized my mold was coming apart, and a passing thought that I had came to light. What was happening was I did not seal every seam and the gel coat ran a bit into the seams of my mold pieces. I basically had to chisel out the wood bit by bit until i got the affected areas out, and even then it flaked pieces of gelcoat out along the edges. After that the clean pieces popped out relatively easy. It left me with many touch ups and fills to the gel coat. It is more than salvageable and I can make it perfect but im pissed that I have to fix it up.
The other not so great thing is that I have already gel coated the other mold so it will suffer the same fate. I should have caulked every seam. I thought about it but I figured the wax would fill the seam and that the bit of gel coat that got under there would cleanly flake off under the pressure of removal. I also acted in haste as I wanted to get to the finish line and see one completed. Details details. I didnt want to use PVA for fear of getting a run or a buildup in my already small and tight valleys. No big deal I guess. I shouldnt be so hard on myself as this is the first time I have ever attempted a mold and I can totally fix it.
On a brighter note, gel coat chips aside, I could not be more releaved and happy with how it came out. It is going to work out awesome for me. I love the way it looks and it is suprisingly light. I have a 5 lb weight in the garage and I believe it to be lighter than the weight. I think with filling the gel coat, a finishing sanding to smooth it all out, and a polishing it is going to look professional. and work out great.
Clean, cut edges
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_7120.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_7120.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_7121.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_7121.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_7124.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_7124.jpg.html)
It was seperating quite nicely.....
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_7125.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_7125.jpg.html)
.... until i realized the mold was coming apart. You can see where the white meets the wood that they are not straight lines. Thats the gel coat that crept under and caused me havoc...
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_7127.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_7127.jpg.html)
I had to beat the hell out of it to get it apart. Basically chiseled the wood until it gave way..
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_7128.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_7128.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_7130.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_7130.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_7131.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_7131.jpg.html)
With all the mold pieces out I have something that I can definitely touch up and work with
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_7132.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_7132.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_7133.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_7133.jpg.html)
The catch had to be a hair lower than the floor level due to where the latch lines up. The cut out in the catch should have been a fraction down ward. If I were to cast the catch flush, the door would have be able to creep a bit above the floor level and this would have drove me NUTS. Due to the latch hardware, I had to cast a relief in the sealing lip of about 3/8s. The valley is 1 inch so there is still plenty of gutter to drain the water, plus, the latches face the bow so they will always be on the high side. There will be a foam gasket to insure water tightness anyway.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_7134.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_7134.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_7145.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_7145.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_7142.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_7142.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_7138.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_7138.jpg.html)
close up of some of the chips i will have to fill. Alot of the smaller ones will sand out with the finishing sanding.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_7136.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_7136.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_7135.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_7135.jpg.html)
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Hey, still not a bad result for a first time. We can't learn if we don't make little mistakes along the way. They look stout. :thumleft: :salut:
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Not bad Koz! I'm going to be attempting something similar in a few weeks, so I really appreciate you posting this so that we all can learn :thumright: . Can't wait to see the finished product!
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Thanks Rick! I appreciate the kudos.
Craig, good luck in what your attempting. I look forward to seeing the posts. Let me know if I can help you in any way.
So I kind of lucked out today. I had a few spare pieces of the mold that fit right back into the channels and gave me a perfect backing to do the necessary repairs quickly. I wrapped them in wax paper and mixed a little 404 into the gel coat to give it a little more thickness. Ended up saving me alot of time. I have a few more touch ups to do on spots I could not do today and its off to final sanding.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_7188.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_7188.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_7187.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_7187.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_7184.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_7184.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_7178.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_7178.jpg.html)
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Really top shelf Steve!!!! Are you going to leave the sharp corner or put on a slight radius? Just wondering about finger amputations and chipping OS the corners down the road. That was good luck the mold parts were not completely cooked. Neptune was smiling on you!! :salut: :D :viking:
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Much easier to see now Koz. :thumleft:
I should go back and read the thread but hey, I'm lazy today.
Are you molding in a compartment below the hatch like the factory had in the bow?
Good luck.
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Dave,
Yes, these are rough and will get a finish sanding. I purposely went a bit heavier on the gel coat knowing I was going to sand them into shape. All the edges will get smoothed with radiuses and all the wood marks and impressions will get sanded out and polished leaving me with a professional looking finished piece. Its amazing how detailed it copied all the impressions. It almost looks like its made of the white board that the mold was made of. You will see the finished product in a day or two. I am grateful that they werent fully cooked. After yesterdays repairs those chips were super minor in the overall view. Thats the beauty of gelcoat and its why im using it for everything, even the floor. Whether today or 5 years from now, if you get a ding in the gel coat you can fix it. Im not knocking paint as it has it benefits, but most of the paints will not repair well.
Capt Bob,
Yes, In fact I am using the original bow storage tub and the original live well tub. The bow tub is a direct fit. Im not sure if I am going to glass it under the floor section or glass it to a pair of bulkheads between the stringers, but it is going back in. Its a great spot for life jackets and I like it. The live well is going to have to get modified to fit. I want the bilge against the transom, so the tub is going about a foot or so forward of the transom which will let me add any plumbing I want later. Im not going with a sea cock or a pump of any type at this time. I may just have it as a fish storage bin with a plugged drain to the bilge, or even employ the original thru transom thru-hull and let it fill 1/4 or so based on the water line height. Havent quite figured that out yet. In the near shore fishing that I do, I have little need for a working live well. 99% of the baits I use are either dead, will live for a while in a bucket of water, or have to be caught and used immediately as they would not make it in a live well anyway. I will be within 8 miles of the shoreline for all that I do. I will not be days out at the tuna canyons where I will need live bait. Ill leave that to the larger charters. The livewell on my 200CCP was mostly used as a cooler to store the catch of the day and rarely had water in it other than to preserve the catch for an few hours.
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Those hatch combings are looking good! Though you said you were over gelling for a radius but couldn't remember. Real top shelf!! :thumright: :thumleft:
If there is a chance that fish mung might ever get in the aft well, drain it overboard... Once that heinous gop gets in the bilge, the smell will get everywhere you don't want it and will never go away.. :puker: :pukel:
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Thanks Dave. I will have a slight radius to all the edges which was in the plan with the heavy gel coat. It will still look a little boxy as the molds were made of straight cut wood where sweeping curves are hard to do. By the time I'm done the average person will not be able to tell they weren't factory.
I don't have much of a choice as the well will be sitting on the keel so there is no way to drain it out without a pump. The drain will be inches from the bilge drain plug, and with a gel coated bilge there shouldn't be too many nooks and crannys for the gook to take hold. I had it that way on the 200 CCP minus the gel coat and I don't remember it stinking too bad. My primary fish box is my flip back cooler seat so the livewell won't get too much primary action. Thanks for the heads up I appreciate it
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Thanks Dave. I will have a slight radius to all the edges which was in the plan with the heavy gel coat. It will still look a little boxy as the molds were made of straight cut wood where sweeping curves are hard to do. By the time I'm done the average person will not be able to tell they weren't factory.
I don't have much of a choice as the well will be sitting on the keel so there is no way to drain it out without a pump. The drain will be inches from the bilge drain plug, and with a gel coated bilge there shouldn't be too many nooks and crannys for the gook to take hold. I had it that way on the 200 CCP minus the gel coat and I don't remember it stinking too bad. My primary fish box is my flip back cooler seat so the livewell won't get too much primary action. Thanks for the heads up I appreciate it
You are doing a great job Koz :thumright: I am not sure how much live bait fishing you plan to do, but the swing back cooler seat that you are installing would make a great livewell. I am not quite sure which one you have, but the cooler seat I had was made by Todd and it would have made a great livewell. As a matter of fact, you could plumb it and it could double as a cooler and/or livewell. I personally am a fan of keeping the livewell as far forward as possible to keep weight off the stern. Just my 2 cents.
Keep up the good work :thumright:
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There we were, running home from Vinalhaven after a marithon three days on the hard getting the annual painting done on an old wooden lobster boat.. Showing INCREDIBLY bad judgement we loaded the bait box up (4bushels) on mackerel the day before the haul out, and it was the end of June...
The gurry that developed in it was heinous to say the least.. Because of the painting, everything had been moved around and was not really ready (secured for sea)for the trip home.. Needless to say, the bait box shifted, banged the washboard combing and split a seam... The gurry drained out and went through the deck seams maggots and all, and into the bilge :puker: :shock: . 3 gallons of Lestoil pine cleaner later it stank like a ba$tard until October..
Hence my concern :mrgreen: Whaddayawant, I was 14 at the time....
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Quick derail, here's where Dave is speaking of, Vinalhaven, Maine. As pretty a place as you'll ever see:
(http://images.marinas.com/med_res_id/84128)
Only way there is by boat
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Oh Lord, Dave, I had 2 shrimp in a Fra-bill left in the back of the Blazer for a day....GEEZ what an effin stink!!! Can't imagine what that mess must of smelled like! BTW, had specifically told my buddy to empty the goddam bait bucket before he tossed it in the back of the truck...
Back to the topic at hand. And Vinalhaven sure is pretty! :thumleft: :thumleft:
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You are doing a great job Koz :thumright: I am not sure how much live bait fishing you plan to do, but the swing back cooler seat that you are installing would make a great livewell. I am not quite sure which one you have, but the cooler seat I had was made by Todd and it would have made a great livewell. As a matter of fact, you could plumb it and it could double as a cooler and/or livewell. I personally am a fan of keeping the livewell as far forward as possible to keep weight off the stern. Just my 2 cents.
Keep up the good work :thumright:
Herei s my flip back cooler seat on the old 200CCP. I traveled almost 2 hours to pick it up. It was in poor condition and I re covered the vinyl back and seat. Since then my father who is a machinist, machined new side brackets out of aluminum stock for me. This is an old school all fiberglass insulated cooler box. I have not seen one on craigslist in years. It works like the Todd one but it is heavy fiberglass instead of plastic. Im not sure if this was factory Aquasport or factory Mako. I believe it came off of a Mako though.
The live bait I use are crabs, eels and killies which stay alive in anything. Bunker (Menhanden) are snagged and immediately live lined and do not do well in a live well. This is a bait of choice if you come across a pod while fishing for stripers (Rock fish) and at least for me is not a common enough of a bait to rig a well for. If things change I can always add plumbing later. I never needed a real live well on the 200CCP. I miss that boat.... hell right now I miss ANY boat!!!!
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6900.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6900.jpg.html)
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There we were, running home from Vinalhaven after a marithon three days on the hard getting the annual painting done on an old wooden lobster boat.. Showing INCREDIBLY bad judgement we loaded the bait box up (4bushels) on mackerel the day before the haul out, and it was the end of June...The gurry that developed in it was heinous to say the least.. Because of the painting, everything had been moved around and was not really ready (secured for sea)for the trip home.. Needless to say, the bait box shifted, banged the washboard combing and split a seam... The gurry drained out and went through the deck seams maggots and all, and into the bilge :puker: :shock: . 3 gallons of Lestoil pine cleaner later it stank like a ba$tard until October..
Hence my concern :mrgreen: Whaddayawant, I was 14 at the time....
lol. I can smell that from here! Well you have me beat as I will never ever have 4 bushels of Mackerel on the boat unless I just caught it. A few pounds of clam, squid or spearing, and/or a few crabs for blackfish is about all I will ever have on there. A bucket will do!
I wish our waters were as bountiful as they once were. Most trips we are coming home with little to nothing to show for it. I usually always catch something, but catching a species I like of a legal size to bring home is another story. Like I preach often, you want fish, go to the fish market. Its alot cheaper and faster than fishing. I love to fish. I dont care what I catch as long as I catch something and I am far from upset if nothing comes homes with me.
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Quick derail, here's where Dave is speaking of, Vinalhaven, Maine. As pretty a place as you'll ever see:
(http://images.marinas.com/med_res_id/84128)
Only way there is by boat
That looks absolutely beautiful! Wish I was there to fish!!!
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As they say Steve, a bad day on the water is better than a good day at work!
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As they say Steve, a bad day on the water is better than a good day at work!
Right on!!! :thumright:
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Hey Koz, been keepin tabs on your progress,man I give you lot of credit.
I just tore my boat apart,what a mess.
I have a lot of work next spring,like you I can't believe the way they
built these boats,one of my side panels on the port side just pulled away from
cabin and bottom bulk head,so my son and I just gutted everything.
My list next spring,
new gas lid cover,rebuild side panels,patch holes in bow where
toilet was, patch hole in side where sink was, rebuild console and rebuild
table and caulk all windows, soda blast bottom and paint hull.
rewire console and reconnect radar arch.
I have more ,but i think I chewed off more than I can swallow.
But at least i know what I'll have when i'm done.
Jay
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Jay,
I am strangely excited and jealous reading your post! lol. Overall, after I forget the bad and only remember the good, the experience so far has been awesome. I have grown my abilities and pushed my creativity. I have been able to proudly say "look what I did" as if I were a kid again. I have mentioned in conversation that if I won the lottery tomorrow, one of the first things I would do is finish the boat. From purchasing (2 years ago!!), to planning, to planning, to planning, to planning, to planning, to planning to planning, to demo, and now to finally making progress has been awesome. I have to be careful of what I say to my friends because I dont want to talk about the boat for the millionth time and start losing friends!
Yes, the overall punch list is daunting and overwhelming, but you hit the nail on the head when you wrote "at least I know what Ill have when im done" I could not even come close to being able to afford to buy my boat when its finished.
We are all here for you. Post what you need and we will chime in. My email is at the bottom in my signature if you need but a post on here will get you many answers. I am not a professional at all. The great people on this site have saved me from many mistakes already and as said before, there is no way I would have ever attempted this build without this site to show me how to do it.
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Loving the gelcoat!
Did a final sanding on the hatch frames. Did something like a 100, then a 220, then a wet 320, then a wet 400 grit. They came out AWESOME! There is a dimple or two that I will fill in next time but overall it is 99% finished. I love that you can repar gelcoat with flawless results. Keep in mind the outer perimeter will be sanded at a taper to later accept and fair the fiberglass of the floor itself. I still cant believe I made these. I have never made a fiberglass mold before. If I can do it anyone can!
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_7232.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_7232.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_7233.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_7233.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_7235.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_7235.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_7242.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_7242.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_7238.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_7238.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_7244.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_7244.jpg.html)
Im sure your all a bit tired as I am of seeing the same pictures of the same frame, so I switched gears today to keep it interesting.
My brother brought me a piece of "recycled" mahogany 1 inch decking plank. Im fairly sure its mahogany and not teak. I cant tell. Its a true 1 inch thick and being im broke, im using it which ever it is. Its painted on one side which is fine as I will sand it clean. It has a few nail holes which i tried to strategically cut around in selecting the rough cuts. I saved a ziplock of saw dust which I will mix with carpenters glue to make a hole filler for any holes that are left.
I am making two items out of these thicker pieces.
1) the rear rodholders have seen better days and I figured the thicker material will give them a bit more durability.
2) the teak anchor locker door was missing from the 246 CCP but I saved the one from my 200CCP. The problem is the rough opening for the 246 is larger. I decided to keep the door but make a larger frame.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_7245.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_7245.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_7247.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_7247.jpg.html)
The difference in the door size is only about 2 inches each way (about 1 inch all the way around). Not too bad. I would like a larger door but this will work out fine. I like that its from my 200CCP as well. The one downfall is That I want to reverse the swing on the door so it closes at the port side and hinges at the starboard side. I either have to fill/patch the existing holes from the latch and hinges or finish the other side of the door. Im not sure what is easier. You cant just turn the door over as the louvers will then be upside down and collect water instead of shed it. Nothing is simple! In any event I think im going with the break apart hinge so I can store the door during heavy anchoring trips like wreck fishing.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_7249.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_7249.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_7250.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_7250.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_7252.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_7252.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_7254.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_7254.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_7255.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_7255.jpg.html)
more to come....
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Wow!!
You post as many pics of that hatch frame as you see fit. It's beautiful....and the solid bronze drain is dechit :thumright:
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Thanks Koz,I will definitely and will ask for help.
I love the hatches and gel coat.
I'll be looking at some serious fiber glassing
and wood work myself.
Keep up the great work.
Jay
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Thanks again Gran as always for the kind words. As I may have mentioned prior, that one is Home Depot off the shelf! Its part of a complete bath tub drain assembly but I got the manager to sell me just that tail piece out of an open box. Its cast bronze thats machined. Its not super heavy which makes it perfect for what I wanted. I searched far and wide for true "marine" stuff but it was either crap (plastic or cast junk metal) or way too heavy. I cant trust the plastics in my mind. Groco makes a bronze 90 degree tail piece but it is super heavy. Its appropriate for a thru hull but overkill for these hatch drains.
Jay,
Thank you. I cant wait to see the play by play of your project!!!
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Welllllll, I just couldnt go to bed knowing I have raw wood in the garage that needs to become something. I drilled out the holes for the rod holder. I used a 1 3/4 inch hole saw, then a band saw to finish the cuts. I moved the holes about 1/8th of an inch forward to give a touch more meat to the backbone against the gunwale. Tomorrow I break out the router table for some heavy duty corner rounding.
I had an after thought, but im going to stick with the factory look. You really do not need to make the cut outs into the circles for access. There is enough room in the tube to slide the fishing rod or equipment forward and back it into the hole. I remember stuff falling out of these holder in the rough to the extent that I drilled holes and threaded in bungee cords to hold everything in place... which forced me to slide the rod forward and back it into the hole anyway. Im a bit on the fence. They are easy enough to make and I have plenty of time should I change my mind. I just dont have any more of this really nice thick stock. Onward for now...
The left one has the painted side down andthe right one has the painted side up. The original is in the middle. The hole saw burned the center of the circles which is tough stuff to sand off. I will sand the paint off and finish with Sikkens Cetol
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_7256.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_7256.jpg.html)
No flimsy thin strips here!
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_7258.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_7258.jpg.html)
Here are the ones from my 200CCp. You can see what I had to do to get the stuff to stay in. The slots arent necessary.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6287.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6287.jpg.html)
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Can't tell you didn't go out and buy those hatch frames :salut:
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Fantastic work, Koz!
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Im sure your all a bit tired as I am of seeing the same pictures of the same frame
Ummm, NO! That came out awesome! :salut: B-E-A-utiful :!:
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Koz,
I had the bungee cords on my CCP also. I prefer the slots on mine (210WAC) because I don't have the space you do.
The fact that you're keeping some teak/mahogany on the ol' gal is great too. I always felt the trim is what really made these older Aquas look classy. PITA to maintain but still....
It's really sweet watching this come together.
Good luck. :thumright:
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Koz,
I had the bungee cords on my CCP also. I prefer the slots on mine (210WAC) because I don't have the space you do.
The fact that you're keeping some teak/mahogany on the ol' gal is great too. I always felt the trim is what really made these older Aquas look classy. PITA to maintain but still....
It's really sweet watching this come together.
Good luck. :thumright:
Yeah, you like teak Capt. Bob :wink:
Great work on that hatch Koz :thumright:
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I saved a ziplock of saw dust which I will mix with carpenters glue to make a hole filler for any holes that are left.
Steve, absolutely beautiful work, you should be proud of yourself!!
What you said above instantly bought a BIG smile to my face! I used to work with an excellent finish carpenter at Stamas Yacht, he was a big boy, used to collect teak dust on top of his rather ample belly. "Whtacha doing there, Joe?" I asked him. Smile on his face, "Powdered gold right here, my friend..." Did the same as you, mixed it with wood glue for seams and gluing bungs in. He's now building custom wood boats up in Barnstable, MA, you NE guys might know where that is...
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Great work Koz, been watching this for sometime, now I know to fill/radius any seams in molds I have to build when I start my restore. You have done an excellent job so far and thanks for the education pre-restore.
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Koz your hatch looks awesome. Have you started on the hatch cover yet?
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Can't tell you didn't go out and buy those hatch frames :salut:
Thanks Rick! I wish I did!!!! Damn these are ALOT of work to make. There isnt anything on the market thats strong enough unless you go to aluminum. The plastics are just too weak and I dont like that they are surface mount and not flush. I started the 2nd one tonight.
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Fantastic work, Koz!
Thanks Craig I appreciate it!
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Ummm, NO! That came out awesome! :salut: B-E-A-utiful :!:[/quote]
Thank you Carl, I appreciate it!!
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Koz,
I had the bungee cords on my CCP also. I prefer the slots on mine (210WAC) because I don't have the space you do.
The fact that you're keeping some teak/mahogany on the ol' gal is great too. I always felt the trim is what really made these older Aquas look classy. PITA to maintain but still....
It's really sweet watching this come together.
Good luck. :thumright:
Thank you Capt Bob. I love the teak. I am going to keep every piece that is there and then some. The transom bait station is going to have the port and starboard doors from my 200CCP as well as other old school teak trim. The pilot house will also have teak trim. Yes the maintainence on the teak is rough but even when it looks bad it still looks pretty good. Even with all the mods I have in store for it I want it to look like it just rolled off the production floor in 1979.
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I saved a ziplock of saw dust which I will mix with carpenters glue to make a hole filler for any holes that are left.
Steve, absolutely beautiful work, you should be proud of yourself!!
What you said above instantly bought a BIG smile to my face! I used to work with an excellent finish carpenter at Stamas Yacht, he was a big boy, used to collect teak dust on top of his rather ample belly. "Whtacha doing there, Joe?" I asked him. Smile on his face, "Powdered gold right here, my friend..." Did the same as you, mixed it with wood glue for seams and gluing bungs in. He's now building custom wood boats up in Barnstable, MA, you NE guys might know where that is...
Thanks Sea Bob! Lol... I have a little bit of a powdered gold landing pad myself. Now I know where to collect the good stuff from. I just used some tonight.... see below
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Great work Koz, been watching this for sometime, now I know to fill/radius any seams in molds I have to build when I start my restore. You have done an excellent job so far and thanks for the education pre-restore.
Thanks Futch I appreciate it. ITs my pleasure to share and pay what I have learned forward. The back and forth dialog on here is invaluble to my success.
Fill EVERYTHING! lol. Those damn chips cost me almost as much time as it took to make the darn piece. I dread popping the next one off. I am going to screw it together better before wedging it apart. I dont know if thats going to help or hurt the process. I almost wish I was making another just to have one come out perfect. Stay tuned...
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Great work on that hatch Koz :thumright:
Thanks John I appreciate it!!
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Koz your hatch looks awesome. Have you started on the hatch cover yet?
Thanks Fish! No I havent started the covers yet as I want to finish the 2nd hatch frame and the jockey seat to get them out of the way. I need to clear my garage a bit as I am drowning in clutter. I will use the plywood bases from the frame molds for the door molds. The doors should be fairly easy to make as they do not have all the intricate bends the frames do. The worst is going to be engineering in the latches but I think I have that figured out. I should be on to them in about 2-3 weeks.
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I set up the router table today and rough finished up the rod holders and the anchor locker frame. I will sand and give one coat of sikkens cetol just to seal them up. I will give them many more coats just before installing them.... someday! lol
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_7268.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_7268.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_7268.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_7268.jpg.html)
Heres the frame just laid in place. I have to fill a few imperfections before I screw it together. As mentioned, it is recycled wood so I have a screw hole or two to deal with
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_7265.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_7265.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_7263.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_7263.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_7273.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_7273.jpg.html)
Glue mixed with sawdust as a wood filler
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_7275.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_7275.jpg.html)
I also got started on the 2nd in floor hatch frame.Youcan see the patterns I made for the very crucial first layer of 3/4 oz chopped strand. I made the mistake of wetting this stuff out on plastic sheeting first. This stuff is too thin and just falls apart. It made the first layer not as nice as I would have liked, but whats important is no voids or bubbles. I can deal with a little unevenness as I can compensate for that in the long run.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_7277.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_7277.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_7279.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_7279.jpg.html)
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I made the mistake of wetting this stuff out on plastic sheeting first.
:pale: I bet you were cursing me. I guess I forgot to say that I only do that for biaxial cloth, not chopped strand mat. I'm very sorry about that Steve. :oops:
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Lol Carl... No your credibility is safe. There is a little more to the story. I packed the corners with "mayonaise" west systems 404 and I didn't want to drown it with resin so I was wetting out the pieces on plastic. It worked fine IF I immediately raised the piece and used it. Problem is my resin was starting to gel so I figured let me wet the last two pieces and get to them when I'm ready for them. That didn't work out too well. It was like picking up a single wet sheet of toilet paper off of a counter top! The saving grace is that the 3/4 chopped strand is so light that you can mash it into any shape you want even if its folded over itself.
Thanks for calling me out on that and having me elaborate for I can see how my original post could be misleading. I shouldn't post at 2 am either!
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Steven those rod holders.... How married are you to Cetol?
To be blunt I am not a fan because of the orange tint it almost makes the wood look fake. I am a diehard old school linseed oil based varnish kind of guy. Yes I am nuts, but I think that has been established.. :roll:
With a double secret recipie of linseed oil and teak oil sealer wet sanded into the grain, then covered with varnish the finish will look 5 feet deep and belong in that boat. The way you are going about getting a truly top shelf fit and finish, you gonna have a dadblag yacht not a fish boat and it would be a shame not to get a drop dead deep sheen on the mahogany.. It will be a few more steps and more coats but once it is on it is easy (comparatively speaking) to maintain. If you want to see what the results look like of that finish combination, let me know and I'll dig up some pictures..
Really nice work.. Those deck hatches are 4.0!!!! :salut:
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Steven those rod holders.... How married are you to Cetol? :salut:
Thanks for the suggestion I appreciate it. I did a sealing coat of Cetol last night already. Sure, there are better methods to get a furniture grade shine and depth from the wood than Cetol. I like Cetol for the long haul because it holds up fairly well and can be touched up or re coated after just a sanding. The chemical stripping process of the oils is a bit much for me. Its not the most brilliant shine but its good enough for my needs and maintenance schedule. I hate to say it but the boat will never look as good as it will on its first trip. I'm going to fish her hard and do not plan on keeping up a museum piece so im swaying towards durability and ease over flash throughout the build. It still looks pretty though. Thanks again for the suggestion. I'm sure someone will take note and follow your protocol.
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:thumright: :thumleft:
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Laid the 2nd layer of glass onto the second hatch mold. The layup schedule I displayed prior works out perfectly. Thats the way to go for this mold.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_7281.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_7281.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_7282.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_7282.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_7283.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_7283.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_7285.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_7285.jpg.html)
Say hello to my little friend.... This tiny roller was invaluable in making a bomber piece. "gasserglass" from youtube talks about having as many different rollers around as he could find. This small one has become a major go to tool for me.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_7286.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_7286.jpg.html)
I finished up the Anchor Locker frame. I screwed them together using stainless steel flat L brackets and stainless screws. You have to be very careful with teak/mahogany to pre drill every hole as it will split easily. It can also be very tough resulting in broken screws if torqued too hard. Stainless is not a very tough metal. In the photo you see the "take apart" hinges. Be warned, to my surprise they are NOT reversable. These are a set for the left hand side (looking at the door). Of course I want the hinges on the right side so off to the Marine supply for another ding on the credit card. I had those hinges from a long time ago so I cant exchange them now.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_7292.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_7292.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_7293.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_7293.jpg.html)
I gave it a through sanding with 120 grit then 220 grit. I didnt want to leave the raw wod exposed for accidents so I gave it a quick sealing coat with Sikkens Cetol natural. I may go with the "teak" color going forward to darken it up a bit. Overall I am super pleased. It was a bit more work using the recycled wood but at the end of the day I have 2 rodholders and a door frame that didnt cost me a dime in materials. These will go into storage now until they are installed so I didnt want to leave them unprotected. I hate to think that may be next fall but time goes by fast and the punchlist is looooooooong. I still cant believe I made this stuff. Believe me if I can do it ANYONE can.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_7294.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_7294.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_7295.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_7295.jpg.html)
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I wanted to share another idea with you all. I didnt think much of it until now at how valuable it has been. Since taking on the idea of the 246 project and knowing it was going to be long term, as ideas came to me I put together a binder to collect all my thoughts and ideas.
I have evertything in here that has come to mind. Internet articles, brochures froim stores, drawings.... anything that made sense to me that I wanted to reference when the time came. I am now collecting reciepts in there as well to be able to more closely tally what the true financial ding for this project will be. Its been two years in the making but every time I flip through it I am reminded of an idea I had for the boat. It will be a great conversation piece years from now when all is said and done.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_7289.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_7289.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_7291.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_7291.jpg.html)
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Great job. I love the low maintenance of starboard but nothing beats the rich classic look of real wood.
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Great job. I love the low maintenance of starboard but nothing beats the rich classic look of real wood.
Thanks Wingtime. I agree. I envy the ease of Starboard but I love the look of teak. Even older worn teak looks good. It tells a story. I have a rope burn in my teak from a stuck anchor from fishing an artifical reef.
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Ha! I have a rope burn on the rubrail of may 170 from a stuck anchor. We lost the anchor that day but the cool part is a guy I met snagged it a day or two later and gave it back to me... rope and all! :cheers:
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Steve,
Don't feel the need to respond b/c it's not necessary and time is precious for all of us, but I would like to nominate you for the 1st annual "Best Documentation of a Complete Rebuild" award... :cheers:
I have to imagine with the time you've spent sharing your project with your eager audience you could've finished the entire project and broken in your re-assembled engine already. :wink:
That said, PUH-LEEEEZ keep it coming. Your consistent progress, quality craftsmanship, and creativity in solving your problems provides the truest motivation and encouragement for the rest of us.
Thanks man! :salut:
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Wingtime... thats awesome! I lost the anchor, chain and 75ft of rope on that burn mark! :evil: I was determined to get it up. Dark smoke was coming out the outboard like a diesel sled pull competitor. Almost swamped the boat. The reef won, had to cut it off. Teak tells the story...
Ryan,
Thank you so much for the kind words. It is so appreicated and im glad you are enjoying the build. I post not to boast or to show off but more so to think out loud. As I write, I think faster than I write and ideas come to me as I am reviewing the plan in my head. Its just as much for my benefit as it is for those I am sharing it with. I have spent years on this site soaking in what others have done and im thrilled to give back, but im not sure who is learing more from it, the teacher or the student! The diary aspect helps me keep on track and spurs new ideas. The suggestions from fellow enthusists has helped shape my project. I regularly re read my entire posts as well as go back to others' similar builds to confirm ideas or spark new ones. To say im a bit obsessed is an understatment.
On a not so good note, I am running out of materials, money and weather, so a slow down until the spring is just about to happen. I am going to finish a few more things over the next two weeks or so, then the hull becomes a 25 ft storage tub until the spring. I will pack it with all things boat and project related and wait to see the groundhog. Then its transom... floor.... pilot house.... WOO HOOO!!!!! Cant waittttttttttt :bounce:
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Ditto Ryan's nomination!
Keep up the great job Steve :thumright:
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Steve...move down here! :cheers: :cheers:
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Ditto Ryan's nomination!
Keep up the great job Steve :thumright:
Thanks Gran!!
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Steve...move down here! :cheers: :cheers:
Thanks seabob. Anyone hiring? Wifey and I are considering a move further south anywhere from ocean city MD to the Carolina's. a great job hookup could speed that along.
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I wanted to share another idea with you all. I didnt think much of it until now at how valuable it has been. Since taking on the idea of the 246 project and knowing it was going to be long term, as ideas came to me I put together a binder to collect all my thoughts and ideas.
I have evertything in here that has come to mind. Internet articles, brochures froim stores, drawings.... anything that made sense to me that I wanted to reference when the time came. I am now collecting reciepts in there as well to be able to more closely tally what the true financial ding for this project will be. Its been two years in the making but every time I flip through it I am reminded of an idea I had for the boat. It will be a great conversation piece years from now when all is said and done.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_7289.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_7289.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_7291.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_7291.jpg.html)
i have one of those books for my F150, instead of drawings its FULL of receipts since i bought the truck in 06
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Wingtime... thats awesome! I lost the anchor, chain and 75ft of rope on that burn mark! :evil: I was determined to get it up. Dark smoke was coming out the outboard like a diesel sled pull competitor. Almost swamped the boat. The reef won, had to cut it off. Teak tells the story...
Ryan,
Thank you so much for the kind words. It is so appreicated and im glad you are enjoying the build. I post not to boast or to show off but more so to think out loud. As I write, I think faster than I write and ideas come to me as I am reviewing the plan in my head. Its just as much for my benefit as it is for those I am sharing it with. I have spent years on this site soaking in what others have done and im thrilled to give back, but im not sure who is learing more from it, the teacher or the student! The diary aspect helps me keep on track and spurs new ideas. The suggestions from fellow enthusists has helped shape my project. I regularly re read my entire posts as well as go back to others' similar builds to confirm ideas or spark new ones. To say im a bit obsessed is an understatment.
On a not so good note, I am running out of materials, money and weather, so a slow down until the spring is just about to happen. I am going to finish a few more things over the next two weeks or so, then the hull becomes a 25 ft storage tub until the spring. I will pack it with all things boat and project related and wait to see the groundhog. Then its transom... floor.... pilot house.... WOO HOOO!!!!! Cant waittttttttttt :bounce:
Come down south you will be taking a few months off for the summer instead of the winter. :mrgreen:
I will miss your rebuild of another boat my size. Look forward to see your last few weeks of work until spring.
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Thank you Aaron. The book will be great to look through in about 20 years.
Fish, LA is a bit far south for me as I will always have Long Island NY ties and will have to return regularly. I have a huge family here. I am one of 15 first cousins. I don't want to go too far south past NC.
Broke the 2nd hatch cover out of the mold today. I reinforced the mold with screws to have it stay together better. The screws made removal easier but it didn't minimize the chipping and cracking from the gel coat creeping into the seams. A bit of a bummer but I already mixed up a batch of gel coat and have most of them filled. One or two more touch up sessions and it will be ready for sanding. No big deal I've been here before. It will turn out near perfect. I hope to start glassing the jockey seat tomorrow although I have about 24 oz of resin left and cannot get more until Monday.
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I have a huge family here. I am one of 15 first cousins. I don't want to go too far south past NC.
If had to move tomorrow....here's the place. Anywhere near Cape Lookout.
The herd of wild horses survived from a Spanish shipwreck
(http://www.ncwildhorses.com/images/shack/7D_Beaufort_4-11-13_188-mod.jpg)
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That creates a quandry for me... I dont know if I want to ride the horse or fish those waters...... Well, then again, the horse will still be there in the winter... LETS FISH!!!! :cheers:
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is this a good idea or a bad idea?
I am having the debate of safety risk over performance. It seems little by little I am adding to the overall original weight of the boat. The stringers have a layer ot two more than they did. The stringer foam is replaced. The floor is a wash as 1/2 inch came out and 1/2 inch is going back in... but there may be an extra layer or two of glass than the factory had. There are extra supports and bulkheads. There will be a console enclosure (pilot house, or more like a hard tee top), closed off transom with a bait prep station and an 26" engine bracket with a 225 2 stroke. The only real weight savings is going from the 6 ft coffin box to the 4 ft coffin box, the shorter 200CCP console, and no helm seats on posts but a single jockey seat instead. The console is 30 inches forward of where it was originally (one full console width) which also moves weight forward.
The foam isnt super heavy but its something. I would think it would add 50-100 lbs. The center bilge foam is as far aft in the photo as it is right up against where the tank tub will be. I would also foam the channel outside of the stringers but that could go the full length. I would have to 5200 them together and maybe even fiberglass strap them in so they dont thud around
Is it worth is? Would this thing ever fully sink? Would this down low-hull foam turn the boat over when sinking anyway? My fishing range maxes out at about 8 miles off shore, where most of the reefs I fish are 2-3 miles off shore and are heavily populated. If I stay in the bays I am a few football fields from land and yards from other boaters. I doubt I have ever been in unpopulated waters. I run a GPS with a DSC radio and wear a inflatible "fannie pack" life jacket as a tool belt at all times.
I would hate to wish I had added the foam as my boat is sinking but what are the chances and are they worth the performance and cost robbing that the weight would add. Also, even with cutting in an inspection hatch, I will never be able to see the bilge area ever again.
What do you all think?
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_7358.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_7358.jpg.html)
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Two thoughts Koz.
First, if you worry about sinking, invest in an inflatable life jacket. A good one and wear it. Seriously.
Second, don't sweat the finished weight. It should only be a concern when trailering and power. The CCPs were light hulls in their era but that doesn't mean that they can't be re-enforced and that modern power won't handle the additional weight.
What you're doing son is basically building a "not so poor man's" Contender. :thumright:
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Steve, to be honest with you, this sounds like the classic mountain/mole hill situation.
There are a ton of us here on CAS that live in the Tampa Bay area, one of the most prolific boating areas in the entire country. Each weekend, year 'round (except for the snotty ones, we're wimps down here!), there are thousands upon thousands of boats plying the waters, in the bay, nearshore, offshore, wherever. Rarely, and I mean RARELY, do we hear of vessels that sank, capsized, got holed, whatever, to where there was imminent danger of life or to where the coasties had to be brought in to do a SAR or to locate a vessel and assist with rescue. Sure, it does happen, but the percentage of cases versus the sheer numbers of boats out there is almost infintesimally small.
The key to bringing your boat back safely to harbor at the end of the day is to be a prudent captain, to have equipment that works, to have safety gear that does it's job, to be aware of one's surroundings. All the foam in the world ain't gonna help a dumba$$...
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seabob hit the nail on the head with that one, a good Capt will do their best to keep their boat out of trouble, using their head and with good planning on outings :thumright: Sure something bad "could happen" but like sb said the coast guard doesn't really do to many search and rescues for people who have a plan.. :salut:
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X3 of what was already mentioned.
Back to your hatches, have you tried using packing tape over the seams where the gel is creeping in? The slight edge you would get would be far easier to remove and cleanup than what you are doing now. MHO :thumright:
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X4 what the guys have said, but noting your build:
Steve, the weight you've added is exactly where it needs to be. Directly to the hull bottom.
The dry weight of a 1973 22-2 hull from the factory was around 1950 pounds. Our rebuilt version checked in at 2350 dry. With the engines, rigging, gas, chicken, etc.....she's more like #3200.
Back in the early eighties my friend Chris Bellamy purchased a brand new Aquasport 250 CCP with twin factory 115 Yamahas. Within six months the stringer/hull bond delaminated along the port side stringer.
Rather than ship it back to Florida, Aquasport contracted Nelson Silva of Wilmington to make it right. He basically rebuilt the boat. Pulled the cap, pulled the liner, retabbed both stringers....and added an estimated 450 pounds of glass. "Dream Lady" is charter fishing today without additional alteration. Third set of 115's :thumright:
Point being...your engineering is sound. Your build far surpasses the original. Her extra weight is exactly where the professional boatbuilder added glass back then. Go with it and enjoy. You're a good captain, and you'll be prudent regardless of what you're running.
When you run this one...you'll be a happy man.
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1. You are being weight conscious where you need to be.
2. This is a Koz one off being built like a brick house.
3. Is the foam needed for your "safety"? No.
4. Is the foam a bonus for strength and rigidity? If poured in, Yes.
5. Is the rigidity bonus needed the way you are building? No.
6. If swamped will she roll? With or without foam if swamped and handled badly she will roll and she will stay that way until mechanically raised. Is this a concern? I can not see how unless you are a complete hammerhead..
7. What is going to allow you to sleep at night? Only you can answer that.
If you want to spend the time and $$. Throw some foam in, you are not building a race boat.
Many, many work boats up here have no aux floatation (foam) and they fish in snotty weather over the horizon. The only sinkings other then draggers and shrimpers that get hung down are from boys messing with each other, cutting hoses because the "rules" got broken..
Really Steve, it is all about #7. What ever you decide, we are all in this together!! :thumleft:
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Continuing on the subject of foam, one has to keep in mind the concept of "level flotation". Should a boat be holed or an intake hose split such that a pretty fair amount of water is entering the boat, most boats will start to list to one side due to equipment locations, fiberglass imbalances, more foam on one side than the other, etc. This can be fought, obviously, by moving any non-permanant items (gear, batteries, humans) to the opposite side to counteract the imbalance. But if not caught quickly enough, the increased weight of the water gathering on one side of the boat will cause that side to sink lower and lower, allowing more and more weight to move to that side until it becomes an unstoppable force...and the boat turns turtle. The boat won't sink, due to the foam, but an upside down boat is not much use to anyone, as evidenced by the football players in Tampa out in the gulf a few years ago.
OEM builders due this type of testing on models under 20'. It's required by CFR 33. It makes for an interesting day on the water (actually tied up at the dock, but still on the water and out of the office!). Some onlookers can figure out what you're doing ("Hey, look over here honey, these idiots are actually trying to sink a brand new boat!!") so you can get a little peanut gallery going on. And when they turn turtle? They do it NOW, you better be out of the way!!
Then we'd drag the turtle over to an area where the biga$$ forklift could pull her up by the gunnels to right her, drag her back to the plant, adjust equipment locations, add some ballast here and there, take her back to the water and try it again...
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What SB said happened to a buddies 19foot Seaway that had the bait box fill with rain over night, the starboard scupper went under and there we were, standing in the rain on the steamboat warf, all hung over, looking out to the mooring where only the forefoot and the lower unit was above water.. The thoughts varied from "did you lose all the beer?" To "we ain't hauling today".... :drunken:
Anything that could float was trapped under the hull, there were 19 cases of beer aboard, not a bottle was lost. The 115 TOWER OF POWER was taken off and thrown in the duck pond for 24 hours then soaked with WD-40' re hung and fired right up and ran for the rest of the year.. Gotta love the ruggedness of a Merc.
That hull had no foam.
Idiot kids....... :oops:
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Back to your hatches, have you tried using packing tape over the seams where the gel is creeping in? The slight edge you would get would be far easier to remove and cleanup than what you are doing now. MHO :thumright:
Thanks slvrlng, i may have tried that if I were making another set but these are the only two I need. Unfortunately I gel coated both the hatch molds before I discovered the error. They are both now popped out of the molds and are awaiting final sanding and polishing. As you can see in one of the pictures I was able to patch in all the gel coat and make them perfect. I keep going back and filling smaller and smaller imperfections as if I have nothing better to do! I just havent gotten to doing a final sanding regimen on them of course thru wet sand. I need to finish them up and wrap them up to store for the winter. Packing tape could be a good option going forward and I will keep that in mind. Those seams were so small that a tiny bead of painters caulk would have done the trick.
I have 2 more pieces to make, a jockey seat and a transom bait station. The jockey seat is already gel coated and on that one i sealed some of the seams but not the top panel. Thats ok as i will remove the top panel and sand down the bleeds before popping it apart so they wont stick and crack/chip.
The Bait station mold hasnt been built yet and wont be until I have the transom closed off so I can get an accurate profile off of which I am building from. For that one you can be sure that every crevice will be sealed.
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:D :D :D :D Wow everyone! :D :D :D :D
What can I say other than thank you all so much for your valuable input. I was hoping it would go this way. I wasnt feeling great about the foam and im glad the majority of the consensus is that it is unnecessary. The bad thing is that I have to drag all of it to the dump now. The good news is it was all collected from the bays after Sandy.
I take using the boat in the water very seriously. I wear a rip-cord inflatible fanny pack life preserver at all times. I took my 10 hour course. I have all the necessary up to date safety equipment and then some. I have 2 fire extingushers. I instruct all my passengers where the safety items are and how to deliver the "DSC" distress feature on my VHF radio. I NEVER drink while a captain. I try to avoid going out in the summer on weekends if I can substitute a week day (the yahoos are crazy in our bays! The ocean crowd is good though). I even had all the lighting on the boat positioned in such a way as to have minimal impact on my night vision (even a blaring dash board light will lessen what you can see at night). I definitely do not mess around out there. I keep my radio on search and have been first to the scene of a distressed boater because I heard the call on the radio and I was very close to the boat.
Seabob... you mentioned the Tampa football players. I cant tell you how many times I thought of them in stressing over the foam issue. You are exactly right that an upside down boat is not going to help anyone, and the likelyhood that she will sink right side up is far from possible with this foam arrangement. I would have to take the cap off and fill the undersides of the highest point in the gunwales with foam for that to work out that way. Needless to say that is not in the plan.
Thank you all again!
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Good stuff!
You may want to keep some of that foam block to throw under the deck for sound deadening. Seems to be fairly effective :salut:
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Today I put everything back in the boat for the winter. I basically have a 25 ft storage bin until the spring. What I did set back exactly in place was the gas tank bin and against it, the rear live well. The live well used to be against the transom but it will be modified to fit about a foot away from the transom up against the tank tub. Its not the greatest picture but I have the livewell in position with the in floor hatch frame over it. Thats about where its going to go leaving me about 12 inches wide at the keel. I definitely like to easily see the bilge which the CCP's do not redily allow. This layout will work out great with the transom bait prep station I have planned.
Although the hull is tarped over for the winter, I still have a few garage projects that will keep me busy like the doors to these hatches, refinishing the anchor locker door, the jockey seat, the 1987 Evinrude 225 rebuild that will power this boat, and who knows what else will pop into mind. I can even get started on prepping the console itself. So basically I have quite a bit to tide me over until May.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_7373.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_7373.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_7371.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_7371.jpg.html)
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Steve, as you button her up for the winter.... kudos on the build, and especially the documentation/pics you've provided to your fellow members.
Takes time to photo/upload/post. This thread will be invaluable to those who think it can't be done as a DIY project. Just a super job, and thank you again for all of your efforts :salut:
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Gran thank you so much! I plan on providing the same step by step reporting until the first fish is in the cooler! I enjoy it and I think in print it will be an excellent legacy for my hull. I look forward to seeing others builds as well as we all share our experiences for all to enjoy. Thank you again!!!
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DUDE YOU ARE AN ANIMAL!!!! :thumright: :thumleft:
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It's funny you are packing up for the winter Koz, and I have been waiting for the cold to start mine. Will have the floor out this week. Probably won't be as detailed as yours, but I will start a new thread in "others" to keep ya'll informed.
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It's funny you are packing up for the winter Koz, and I have been waiting for the cold to start mine. Will have the floor out this week. Probably won't be as detailed as yours, but I will start a new thread in "others" to keep ya'll informed.
Anything and everything you post will be appreciated. The opinions, views, thoughts and mindset you share with us is what makes your post valuable and interesting. Like ive said before I am not a professional boat builder, I am a Realtor! So for you to post your experiences with us not only helps us learn but makes it easier to answer your questions... plus we love watching builds of any type from mild to wild :thumright:
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It's funny you are packing up for the winter Koz, and I have been waiting for the cold to start mine. Will have the floor out this week. Probably won't be as detailed as yours, but I will start a new thread in "others" to keep ya'll informed.
Anything and everything you post will be appreciated. The opinions, views, thoughts and mindset you share with us is what makes your post valuable and interesting. Like ive said before I am not a professional boat builder, I am a Realtor! So for you to post your experiences with us not only helps us learn but makes it easier to answer your questions... plus we love watching builds of any type from mild to wild :thumright:
Not a pro boat builder either, just been in the business for what seems like forever :( . The stumpknocker was far from a professional build. Just what I needed at the time. It was the one and only "build" that I have done. The ProLine is a whole nother animal. Now that I have realized the abandoned boat on the property is a 22-2 CCP, I'll probably just build the ProLine to resell and then build the 22 for myself.
I have enjoyed and learned a lot from your build so far, and hope to keep learning.
Thanks for detailing all that you have done.
Loye
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DUDE YOU ARE AN ANIMAL!!!! :thumright: :thumleft:
:viking:
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So basically I have quite a bit to tide me over until May.
Just the thought of "until May" bums me out... :cry: I really need to move south. Winter sucks! :roll:
It was snowing when I went to lunch yesterday. It's going to be a long winter.
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So basically I have quite a bit to tide me over until May.
Just the thought of "until May" bums me out... :cry: I really need to move south. Winter sucks! :roll:
It was snowing when I went to lunch yesterday. It's going to be a long winter.
You could move down here and sweat your you what off. I look forward to the winter in the bayou state.
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Carl,
winter definitely sucks. Im having a hard time with thinking about May and its late November. I dont like to think im hanging up the rods on or before december 14th (last day of blackfish). Its depressing but im going to try to put myself in great position with garage projects to get her in the water by the fall of 2014.
Fish, the Bayou sounds wonderful! Not that I am judging the state or stereotyping, but I watch "swamp people" and I love that show and the people. Its living by a moral code that is all but erroded here in the North East. Im a Southerner born in NY! Someday. I probably wont end up south of North Carolina as I have a huge family and will have to come back to NY periodically. Thats still a few years out but has to happen sooner than later.
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Carl,
winter definitely sucks. Im having a hard time with thinking about May and its late November. I dont like to think im hanging up the rods on or before december 14th (last day of blackfish). Its depressing but im going to try to put myself in great position with garage projects to get her in the water by the fall of 2014.
Fish, the Bayou sounds wonderful! Not that I am judging the state or stereotyping, but I watch "swamp people" and I love that show and the people. Its living by a moral code that is all but erroded here in the North East. Im a Southerner born in NY! Someday. I probably wont end up south of North Carolina as I have a huge family and will have to come back to NY periodically. Thats still a few years out but has to happen sooner than later.
Go fish the Buras marsh or offshore from Venice once and you will be ready to stay there and sell all your stuff by mail in NY LOL. The family can come visit :mrgreen: That is coming from someone if FL :shock:
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Carl,
winter definitely sucks. Im having a hard time with thinking about May and its late November. I dont like to think im hanging up the rods on or before december 14th (last day of blackfish). Its depressing but im going to try to put myself in great position with garage projects to get her in the water by the fall of 2014.
Fish, the Bayou sounds wonderful! Not that I am judging the state or stereotyping, but I watch "swamp people" and I love that show and the people. Its living by a moral code that is all but erroded here in the North East. Im a Southerner born in NY! Someday. I probably wont end up south of North Carolina as I have a huge family and will have to come back to NY periodically. Thats still a few years out but has to happen sooner than later.
Go fish the Buras marsh or offshore from Venice once and you will be ready to stay there and sell all your stuff by mail in NY LOL. The family can come visit :mrgreen: That is coming from someone if FL :shock:
You are right about the fishing. I have fished the marsh's for years down here and decided to try some of the offshore fishing. That's why I am rebuilding a CCP.
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Carl,
winter definitely sucks. Im having a hard time with thinking about May and its late November. I dont like to think im hanging up the rods on or before december 14th (last day of blackfish). Its depressing but im going to try to put myself in great position with garage projects to get her in the water by the fall of 2014.
Fish, the Bayou sounds wonderful! Not that I am judging the state or stereotyping, but I watch "swamp people" and I love that show and the people. Its living by a moral code that is all but erroded here in the North East. Im a Southerner born in NY! Someday. I probably wont end up south of North Carolina as I have a huge family and will have to come back to NY periodically. Thats still a few years out but has to happen sooner than later.
Koz I lived in Herriman NY for a summer it was beautiful but the people were not easy to get a long with unlike down south. It's a hard life up there. The funniest thing was when someone asked where I was from and I replied down south. Their response was south jersey? The world to them ended in Jersey. I thought it was funny.
I have been wanting to make it to the Carolina's have heard it beautiful but when vacation time comes I can't not go to the keys or somewhere in the Caribbean. I love to fish and scuba dive.
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Carl, winter definitely sucks. Im having a hard time with thinking about May and its late November
....
Fish, the Bayou sounds wonderful!
Yes and Yes... Especially when you deal with this for 5 or 6 months!
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//675/20131125_093446.jpg)
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Steve, you'll probably get a kick out of this forum, Spring Hill is basically where I live...http://www.city-data.com/forum/tampa-ba ... lants.html (http://www.city-data.com/forum/tampa-bay/899098-areas-tampa-few-new-york-transplants.html)
Quite often when I'm in Publix or, God forbid, Wal-Mart (probably the Wally World mentioned in one of those posts!), I swear I'm in Brooklyn or LI!! But the New Yorkers here are frienfly folks, don't know if it's the weather that has caused that or not. Maggie and I enjoy them, and they are always willing to strike up a conversation with you.
So move on down and invite the family!! :cheers:
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Fish, I have hiked and camped a few times in Harriman state park and the Bear mountain region so I am somewhat familiar with it. Sea bob... too funny about the New Yorkers in Tampa. Its like southern NY in Florida.
New York could easily be at least 4 states. You have everything west of the east border mountains of new york (the Catskill and Adirondack montain ranges) which I have never been to nor do I think I will ever go to. Thats like Ohio to me. Buffalo could be in Canada for all we know here on Long Island. Then you have the eastern border mountain ranges (Catskills and adirondacks) which is "upstate" to us. We go there to ski and play in the woods. Then you have "the city" which is Manhattan as well as Queens, Brooklyn, Bronx and Staten Island. Dont tell them, but Queens and Brooklyn are actually located ON long island but they will never admit to being part of the Island and not of the city. Staten Island is like Alaska... we own it but its not really part of us.
Then there is long island which is a two part planet in and of itself, Nassau and Suffolk Counties. Suffolk is "the sticks" as the properties are larger than 60 x 100! lol. Im in Nassau.
The Tampa New Yorkers are mostly City and Long Island New Yorkers which think everything belongs to them and are allergic to southern hospitality and a moral compass. They are there for the weather and the weather only. They have no interest in becoming one of you's and are only there to wait out the winter, or cant afford to stay here as it is stupid expensive. So I can totally see how a prevalence of yankee caps and I LOVE NY bumperstickers are the norm. Please do not judge all of us by them but they are pretty much like the rest of us here! Liberal Democratic socialism has poisoned the area and there are way too many groups and types of people fighting for dominance to allow any one groups moral compass to take hold and lead the land in any respectable direction. I would like nothing more than to shed my northern skin and be accepted as a southerner.
Just figured Id add my two cents on how I see it. Yes I am being sarcastic and over the top so please limit the hate mail. its all in good fun. Oh yes,... Aquasports.... werent we originally talking about Aquasports? Oh look.... FIBERGLASS!!!!!!! GEL COAT!!!!!!! bring me some 1708 for some resin paper mache. I have stainless hinges!!!! How about them transoms?!?!?!?
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Steve, all is good. I'm a Chicago boy myself, though transplanted here 32 years ago...know about the big city.
And I would prefer wires over glass, if it's all the same to you... :wink:
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:thumright: :thumright: :thumright: :thumright: :thumright: :thumright:
Fish, I have hiked and camped a few times in Harriman state park and the Bear mountain region so I am somewhat familiar with it. Sea bob... too funny about the New Yorkers in Tampa. Its like southern NY in Florida.
New York could easily be at least 4 states. You have everything west of the east border mountains of new york (the Catskill and Adirondack montain ranges) which I have never been to nor do I think I will ever go to. Thats like Ohio to me. Buffalo could be in Canada for all we know here on Long Island. Then you have the eastern border mountain ranges (Catskills and adirondacks) which is "upstate" to us. We go there to ski and play in the woods. Then you have "the city" which is Manhattan as well as Queens, Brooklyn, Bronx and Staten Island. Dont tell them, but Queens and Brooklyn are actually located ON long island but they will never admit to being part of the Island and not of the city. Staten Island is like Alaska... we own it but its not really part of us.
Then there is long island which is a two part planet in and of itself, Nassau and Suffolk Counties. Suffolk is "the sticks" as the properties are larger than 60 x 100! lol. Im in Nassau.
The Tampa New Yorkers are mostly City and Long Island New Yorkers which think everything belongs to them and are allergic to southern hospitality and a moral compass. They are there for the weather and the weather only. They have no interest in becoming one of you's and are only there to wait out the winter, or cant afford to stay here as it is stupid expensive. So I can totally see how a prevalence of yankee caps and I LOVE NY bumperstickers are the norm. Please do not judge all of us by them but they are pretty much like the rest of us here! Liberal Democratic socialism has poisoned the area and there are way too many groups and types of people fighting for dominance to allow any one groups moral compass to take hold and lead the land in any respectable direction. I would like nothing more than to shed my northern skin and be accepted as a southerner.
Just figured Id add my two cents on how I see it. Yes I am being sarcastic and over the top so please limit the hate mail. its all in good fun. Oh yes,... Aquasports.... werent we originally talking about Aquasports? Oh look.... FIBERGLASS!!!!!!! GEL COAT!!!!!!! bring me some 1708 for some resin paper mache. I have stainless hinges!!!! How about them transoms?!?!?!?
Excellent. And to me, your values speak southern.
We are dissuaded from discussing politricks here. But close to your home...New Jersey has Chris Christie.
He'll give Hillary a fit.
BTW.....can't derail you're own thread. A rule steeped in history :thumright:
Your fine work,...and that of Rick, Carl, Craig, Fish, love 2, 4sure, the tunnel boat, and some I've missed...
Is state of the art, and offers excellent guidance.
Happy Thanksgiving and great job guys. This new work benefits all, now and in the future.
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In '96 we were living in Pensacola with the plan of never moving north of I-10 again, then Dad got sick and asked us to move home..
It was then I was notified by a north west FL native that I was a southerner's best friend.. The feeling of elation at that lasted all of 6 seconds till he finished the sentance with "You is a Yankee with a U haul goin t'other way..." :shock:
Happy Thanksgiving!! :mrgreen:
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LOL Still applies to those moving back north!!!! 2008 was our best year, our exit rate was higher than our entrance rate :cheers: :cheers:
Just kidding, but sometimes Nov-April are a pain in the ... :D :wink:
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To continue the de-railment, what's funny is when we've had weather like the last few days have been (which is damn cold for those of us who have been here a while!!), and you see people in Publix wearing shorts and a t-shirt...and of course, white as ghosts...
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Crash photos coming up :bounce: :bounce: :lol:
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Hey, does anyone on here know how to fix my boat? I think its a Aquasport. Please advise :wink:
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Hey, does anyone on here know how to fix my boat? I think its a Aquasport. Please advise :wink:
:lol: you're the teacher :salut:
(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g88/futch13/train-wrecks-accidents-3_zpsf6f15f9d.jpg) (http://s54.photobucket.com/user/futch13/media/train-wrecks-accidents-3_zpsf6f15f9d.jpg.html)
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Santa brought me some jewlery for the CCP! I found these gems by accident searching around Google and passed them to wifey to get for me for Christmas. I dont know what they originally came from but they are brand new, cast stainless steel to replace those pathetic plastic Perko junk that was on my 200CCP to keep the rear hatch covers down. They are bomber strong and pretty!
As stated prior in my post, I have cut the port and starboard transom bins out of my 200CCP and plan on transplanting them onto my 246 CCP as part of a re designed, custom transom cap. At the end of the day, im not sure if the actual cut outs will make the final project, or if I am going to cast a 1 piece cap using these as plugs for the mold, but the end result will look old school and factory.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_7937.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_7937.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/aquabling.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/aquabling.jpg.html)
As for any real progress, I am totally shut down until spring. We are having a super cold winter on Long Island which seemed to have started thanksgiving weekend. We had 8 inches of snow friday with 50 degrees and rain yesterday, to 5 degrees today with a windchill of - 15! The temperature swings are insane but overall its mostly too cold to do any glass. My attached garage is hovering in the low 50's. So im out for a few months. If I squeeze in a day here or there of course ill post it.
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Good looking latches. Have to get used to turning them only one way.
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Good design.... when they're locked, they're locked.
Won't skate off and open with vibration.
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Are you going to recess those Steve?
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Gran, they have a nub on the strike plate and a vee on the latch which will help insure they stay in place.
Dave, probably not. I kind of like the original look of them top mounted but I may toy around with the suggestion and see how it looks. I kind of want certain things to look old school and original but with subtle improvements. These latches are a great example of that as they are similar to the junk plastic that was originally used but now of cast, polished stainless. Original but improved.
I have my eye on an old set of cast brass grab handles at a consignment shop that are patina green and weathered. I love them im just not sure where to put them yet.
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:thumright:
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Here is my flip back cooler seat on the old 200CCP. I traveled almost 2 hours to pick it up. It was in poor condition and I re covered the vinyl back and seat. Since then my father who is a machinist, machined new side brackets out of aluminum stock for me. This is an old school all fiberglass insulated cooler box. I have not seen one on craigslist in years. It works like the Todd one but it is heavy fiberglass instead of plastic. Im not sure if this was factory Aquasport or factory Mako. I believe it came off of a Mako though.
....If things change I can always add plumbing later. I never needed a real live well on the 200CCP. I miss that boat.... hell right now I miss ANY boat!!!!
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6900.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6900.jpg.html)
I was going back through your thread and noticed the seat and realized it is the same as I have. I am missing the backrest and I cut off the side "handles" (which I thought they were since I didn't have a backrest) because I kept banging my shins on them as I walked around the seat. It has a hole in the bottom on one end, right?
Hard to see the bottom in this pic but it has those recesses on the for corners that you show for mounting brackets.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/68rear_view_of_console.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=1109&title=rear-view-of-console&cat=500)
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Excellent job! What size compressor did you use? I have never shot gel coat either, and I'm a bit intimidated by it. Thanks for sharing this experience!
I'm not really sure. I would have to say its a 3hp at least. Its a old school 220 volt twin piston compressor. I would think its safe to say you need alot of air to shoot gel. I believe the recommended pressure is around 80 lbs. One website has this gun needing 5.8 CFM at 80 lbs. Most compressors list CFM's on the unit. A small pancake compressor is not going to do it. An HVLP gun would probably use less pressure but they are a bear to clean properly. You have to take Half the gun apart. Also, off the shelf most come with a 1.4 or 1.8 mm tip where you need at least a 2.4 mm to shoot gel. Its not hard to get but Home Depot or Harbor Freight doesn't stock the oversized tips.
I too had some level of intimidation of the unknown thus the reason I shot the bilge first. There is only one "flow" knob on the dump gun so I was able to get the hang of it fast. The trick to any perfect finish is thinner coats many times. The thought of one thick coat is setting yourself up for runs. In a mold or in my bilge I didn't care. If I were shooting the hull or especially a vertical surface, I would approach it with multiple light coats. Just make sure you have gel coat without wax for the multiple coats, then add the wax or TFA (tack free additive as my shop labels it) for the final coat. The wax provides an air free barrier which will allow the gel to fully cure but will need to be sanded off before adding another coat. Gel coat without wax will stay tacky to the touch and is not fully cured, but will bond well to additional coats. Same applies to resin. If you are applying fiberglass then gel coat later, only the last gel coat layer needs the wax. Every layer that over the last acts as the air free barrier. For example, the 3rd layer of glass will seal the 2nd layer, and the first layer of gel will seal the glass under it.
I was reading your thread and then searching the web for more data and found one link (somewhere) that said to use 15psi to shoot the gelcoat using a dump gun. I can't remember what I read in the gun's instructions but 40psi rings a bell.
What pressure did you end up using? Did you try to turn it down?
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Rick, yes the box looks similar but I don't think I have such a prominent seam down the inside middle nor do I think my top lip is so thick. In any event it's a great piece. As for the dump gun, the instructions state 5.8 cfm's at 80 psi! I was probably in that range. I wasnt shooting anything small or delicate so i didnt have a need to slow it down. It takes a lot of air and moves a lot of gel coat. It's not called a dump gun for nothing! An hvlp gun takes less pressure and will shoot finer but takes much longer and is a bear to clean. It's a tough call on which is better and I don't have enough experience yet to say which is better and why. Soon though!
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HELLLLLLLLLLLOOOOOOO Everyone. I hope everyone is doing well and not too itchy from all the fiberglass your grinding. As for me I am looking to get started moving forward again. I just ordered this awesome window for the pilothouse enclosure I want to build. I know its a loooong time before I am mounting this window but opportunity knocked and I had to grab it while I could. The dimensions are deceptive in the photo but its 30 wide by 24 high which will be perfect being the enclosure will be in the 34-38" wide range.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/pilothousewindowebay.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/pilothousewindowebay.jpg.html)
As for the boat, I am about a month away from getting what I need to drop the floor in. In the meantime I look to finish the hatch doors and the jockey seat so stay tuned for some amateur fiberglass madness!
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:cheers:
Welcome back to the itchy club. Lol. :mrgreen:
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Today I got to working on the jockey seat. I shot the gel coat last fall so I gave it a wipe down with acetone to soften it up a bit. I got the first layer of 3/4 oz chopped strand down. I will follow it up with 1.5 oz chopped strand, then 2408 biaxial. After I will cut stiffening panels out of 1/4 inch plywood and glass them in with 1.5 oz. It will be mounted to the gas tank cover with bolts and T-nuts so I can easily remove it should I need to do any major work under the console.
I have a suspicion that the seat will be a hair too tall but I didn't have a choice being I am looking to hide a water tank in the seat. I guess Ill find out soon enough.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_8935.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_8935.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_8934.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_8934.jpg.html)
I spent a few hours in the driveway last night trying to figure out the layout and dimensions of the pilothouse enclosure that I want to build over the console. In a separate post I wrote about a company called Carbon Core which took over for the shut down Nida Core. The introductory pricing that they are offering for the next 29 days has fast forwarded the plans and material acquisition for the pilot house. I wanted to model it after the shape of the pilot house of a boat brand called True World Marine. This is what I came up with. I think It will be really great.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_8932.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_8932.jpg.html)
It will be about 6'8" tall and about 92 inches long. It will end over the rear edge of my flip back cooler seat which is represented by the drawn in rectangle. I will set it up so I can have canvas made in the future to close in the sides and rear. It is only 38 inches wide while the flip back seat is 43 inches wide. Basically its enough for myself and up to 3 passengers to cram in and get out of the wash. That's about the max Ill have with me on any later season ocean fishing trip. It will leave about 65 inches from the rear of the cooler seat to the transom. Plenty of room. Im not sure when I will build this as I have many things to do first but I have to take advantage of good pricing for the materials. I think it will look pretty badass on the 246!
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That should look really good, Steve. I'm sure you have studied Dirtwheel's pilot house - may be a different design, but the concept seems similar. And his came out great. I'm sure yours will too :thumleft:
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Like the design....good lookin' :wink:
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Thanks Gran!
Yes, Craig, I just looked at Dirtwheels work again. That's another level of perfection! Makes me want to paint the whole boat but unfortunately I'm not going to do so. Similar pilot house except mine will be a bit longer and will not taper in on the sides. It will have fixed glass windows on the sides and a half fixed/half awning window for the windshield. It all looks good on paper but let's see what turns out when I build it.
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Looks like a good design. I'm betting it'll come out fine :salut:
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I cut out some stiffener panels out of 1/4 inch plywood. I ran them through a table saw to create a sharp bevel as the biaxial doesn't like corners
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_8936.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_8936.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_8939.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_8939.jpg.html)
I then backed them with 1.5 oz chopped strand to help hold the resin in place and glassed them in just on the back side. I coated the entire panel to seal it
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_8937.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_8937.jpg.html)
I used sticks to hold them in place and set the whole thing in the hot sun to kick off
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_8941.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_8941.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_8942.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_8942.jpg.html)
Once the resin kicked, I cut and installed the final coat of 2408 biaxial. I used Carls (CallyB) method of saturating the biaxial on plastic sheeting then laying it in place. I coated the existing surface with resin prior to laying the saturated biaxial down. with such tight working quarters that was the only way to go. This was a tough piece as the bottom of the mold has some intricate folds. This piece was a bit of a back breaker to glass so im glad its mostly done and im anxious to pop it out
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_8944.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_8944.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_8945.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_8945.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_8946.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_8946.jpg.html)
I purposely did not add wax as I may have to add another layer to the mounting flange (very top horizontal lip of the mold) to make sure it sits well. Tomorrow I will coat the entire surface with waxed resin and add glass if needed. I should be popping it out by tomorrow night!!!
In summary the layup schedule was a follows:
Gelcoat, 3/4 oz chopped strand, 1.5 oz chopped strand, 1/4 in plywood stiffeners backed by 1.5 oz chopped strand, 2408 biaxial, 2nd layer of 2408 biaxial just around mounting flange. Then another thin strip of 2408 Biaxial layer on the mounting flange to even it out, followed by a full coating of waxed resin. I used unwaxed gelcoat and unwaxed vinylester resin for the build except for the final coat where I added wax.
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I cut off the excess with a cut off wheel on a 4 1/2 inch angle grinder
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_8950.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_8950.jpg.html)
I started to hammer apart the mold. It basically all but fell apart except for the top opening insert which I should have grinded the edges first before beating it apart. I got a few chips but being its gelcoat they are easily fixed.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_8951.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_8951.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_8953.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_8953.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_8957.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_8957.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_8959.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_8959.jpg.html)
I had to pound out the center which was a big mistake. I should have ground the edges first. Fairly easy fix though
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_8961.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_8961.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_8962.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_8962.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_8963.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_8963.jpg.html)
All and all looks great right out of the mold. The roughness of the horizontal edges is simply drywall spackle that I used to radius the inside of the mold
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_8965.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_8965.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_8973.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_8973.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_8972.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_8972.jpg.html)
I mixed some gel coat with West Systems 404 to start repairing the chips. Im not so concerned about looks here being the top will be covered by a flip up seat
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_8970.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_8970.jpg.html)
looks pretty darn good even without sanding. It will get a full sanding to smooth everything out.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_8971.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_8971.jpg.html)
And yes, as suspected it is too tall. Nothing I could have done differently as I want to hide a tall water tank (tank sprayer) inside. I will have to get creative with a teak decking panel around it to raise the foot rest height. Ill figure something out.
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Nice Steve :thumright: . Bet it feels good to get back into itchy stuff after a long cold winter!
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Looks pretty stout Steve :salut:
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Craig, yes it feels wonderful to get this mold out of my way and to see the project creeping along. I look forward to the day where I hang up the fiberglass rollers for good which will mean that the boat is done and I'm out on it.
Rick, it came out ridiculously rigid and is surprisingly light. As you can agree from your own amazing glass work, there is a level of satisfaction when you push your creative limits and come out with something awesome. Most would say "so what!?!? It's a fiberglass box!" But those that can appreciate know what goes into it. All and all it's one more step towards launching a finished boat.
Thanks everyone. More to come!
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The jockey seat is finally starting to take shape. I cut the seat, centering insert and the seat back out of 3/4 plywood. Cut and drilled the holes in the oversized piano hinge. I made a backrest from some left over stainless rail that I kept from another boat. I bought stainless elbows and stick welded the backrest together. Its not the best welding job but it will grind out just fine and strong has heck. I left it higher than the backrest so it can double as a grab handle. I bolted everything together with T-nuts in the plywood. Im not worried about making the compartment water tight as it will be under the roofline and all that will be stored in it is a water tank from a pump sprayer.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_8976.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_8976.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_8977.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_8977.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_8978-1.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_8978-1.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_8979.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_8979.jpg.html)
Nice "bologna" cuts on the ends to finish them off with style
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_8982.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_8982.jpg.html)
coated the plywood sections with thinned resin and added a patch of glass over the t-nuts to help prevent them from ever coming out.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_8983.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_8983.jpg.html)
The gel coat has yet to be sanded and is still in the raw from the mold. I figured I will sand it to a final finish now that the fabrication and mock up are complete. I think I am going to go with a "teak" brown colored vinyl for the seat and the seat back to match the white and teak colors of the console.
It amazes me how loooooooooooong it takes to build things from scratch. What seems like a simple basic chair is starting to rack up days instead of hours. its kind of mind boggling how much work overall I still have to do and the pace that its taking to get there.
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Looks good Steve. How about all that design time too added to making it from scratch. :mrgreen:
I see the little helper back there how many questions has he asked in the last hour? :lol:
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Fish, lol, luckily not too many as he was engulfed in his driveway "monster Jam" so he paid no mind to me. He loves monster trucks. I hope to have the boat done by his college graduation :lol:
Yes, the design time and mold time adds in too but luckily I made the mold and gel coated it last fall so it broke up the time a bit.
JOCKEY SEAT FINISHED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Im getting better. It came out pretty good. Its about 90% perfect. Im content with it.
I sanded it down with 120 grit to shape it then I hit it with 400 wet paper then compound. I may machine compound it but that will be in the future just before installation. I went with faux alligator vinyl for the seat. It was the right color as I wanted something to match the teak, I even brought a piece of teak with me to the fabric shop to make sure of the color and the texture caught my attention. I placed it in front of the console to get a feel and I think im in love...
Next project: hatch doors
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9088.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9088.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9107.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9107.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9111.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9111.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9113.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9113.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9116.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9116.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9117.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9117.jpg.html)
This photo illustrates why I took the time and effort to place a plywood oval plug at the bottom of the mold. Sure, I could have fiberglassed it solid and just cut the opening out after, but by placing the opening sized plug at the bottom of the mold, it forced the fiberglass to curve 90 degrees creating a super clean look that also multiplies the rigidity of the top of the seat. It was definitely the most challenging portion of the mold to work the fiberglass into, but I think it paid off in manipulating the fiberglass to give me what I want out if it. It makes the top panel look 3/4's of an inch thick when in fact is isn't. I think this could really apply to those building livewells.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9083.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9083.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9120.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9120.jpg.html)
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Another check on the list :cheers:
Looks good Steve :thumleft:
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Excellent work Capt. Steve! :thumright: :thumright:
Sidenote: my boy was never into trucks, cars, mechanics, etc. And was pretty laid back as a young 'un. So looking back, never got the "all boy" experience.
Until YESTERDAY.
A mom comes into the shop toting a 2.5 year old real life Dennis the Menace. This kid was on some kind of super-steroid. His hands were moving all the time, like 300 miles an hour. Attention span of two seconds, then....what can I tear up next?
Into EVERYTHING, right now. Excellent multi-tasker. Had to watch him like a hawk, should have been on a leash :mrgreen:
Mom was no help.
Still taking inventory :lol:
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Thanks Rick!
Gran, I usually have to have Mom around when the kiddies are in my shop/garage area to keep them somewhat at bay as I concentrate on what I need to get done. It gets easier as they get older. At 4+ I can pretty much either shoo them away or take the time to show them a thing or 2.
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I Started working on the hatch doors today.
Please follow the progress of these hatches in detail on my other thread: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11488 (http://www.classicaquasport.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11488)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9123.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9123.jpg.html)
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a pair of hatch doors ready for gel coat.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9145.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9145.jpg.html)
Please follow the progress of these hatches in detail on my other thread: <!-- l http://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=11488.0
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I gelcoated the molds
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9179.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9179.jpg.html)
I added the first layer of 3/4 oz chopped strand fiberglass with vinylester resin
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9187.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9187.jpg.html)
Please follow the progress of these hatches in detail on my other thread: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11488 (http://www.classicaquasport.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11488)
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Added a layer of 1.5 oz chopped strand a few days ago
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9193.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9193.jpg.html)
Hatch doors almost done. Added 2 layers of 2408 biaxial. They will be ready to be popped out of the mold in the morning and test fit to the frames.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9206.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9206.jpg.html)
Please follow the progress of these hatches in detail on my other thread: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11488 (http://www.classicaquasport.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11488)
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Your work is deluxe. And don't sell yourself short on the other thread....your gun work is deluxe too.
Like your response to Rick's concerns regarding thread dominance. Discussion/sharing information and experience is what we're about. Five or ten years out, a new member can review these threads, and although technology changed... great back and forth discussion adds to the learning process.
Derails occur. But the worthwhile threads can handle OT discussion, much like "chat". They always turn around on-topic, usually the next post or two.
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Thanks Gran. I totally agree. I welcome the conversation. As I novice I throw my ideas out there and see what everyone thinks. I have been "derailed" from bad ideas a few times on here and I am grateful for the advice guiding me from what would have been bad mistakes.
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I popped the doors out
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9218.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9218.jpg.html)
Hatches are on their way to taking shape
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9233.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9233.jpg.html)
Please follow the progress of these hatches in detail on my other thread: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11488 (http://www.classicaquasport.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11488)
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Stiffeners added. Doors almost completed
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9306.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9306.jpg.html)
Please follow the progress of these hatches in detail on my other thread: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11488 (http://www.classicaquasport.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11488)
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Completed the doors. just have to mount them to the hatch frame.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9422.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9422.jpg.html)
Please follow the progress of these hatches in detail on my other thread: <!-- l http://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=11488.0
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Hatch frames are finished and await installation. They will be ground to a taper and seamlessly glassed into the floor. The doors will get another coat of gel coat with anti skid additive
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9442.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9442.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9443.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9443.jpg.html)
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A nice job with a nice ending Steve :salut:
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Great day and good times!!! Stole the 2nd half of the day to open the tarp and gut out all the stow away parts so I can get cracking again. The current project focus is screw hole filling and sealing, for both utilized and non utilized holes. We are fairly famililar with how boats are made and in most places the fiberglass you see is backed by wood you cant see. Through screw holes and cracks, water drips in drop by drop and soaks the wood over time to a rotten mess. My boat has been tarped for over a year now and has cooked in the blazing sun all summer. I am confident that any of the semi exposed and lightly glassed in stiffeners peppered through the cap are as dry as they will get and its time to keep it that way.
I started by removing everything over the anchor locker. The cleats and the rope guides that go with them are going to stay so they will get removed, backing plates will be fabricated, and they will get bedded in a layer of 3M 4000UV before reinstalling. There wasnt a bow light on mine just a plastic light pole socket which is coming out and getting replaced with a LED bow light. The bow light will cover the hole and imperfections that were left so I dont have to do much about it other than make sure the wood exposed by the hole is sealed. There was also a second older chrome socket type thingy on there which is coming out, getting glassed over and gel coated. The yellow rope is currently anchoring my tarp frame through that hole.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9495.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9495.jpg.html)
Somewhere in my 246 CCP's life there must have been a wave dodger covering the bow. They affixed it with 47,954.7 screws and these things that I dont know what they are called but you would place an oval grommit over it and turn it to keep the grommit in place. Well anyway, point is there are alot of holes on the top horizontal surface of the cap. It is these holes that worry me most as they are direct pathways to the wood stiffeners. I will Dremel out every imperfection so the gel has something fresh to bite on, fill every hole with a gel coat/west systems 404 paste, and sand to perfection with a multi tool.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9496.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9496.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9497.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9497.jpg.html)
Along the same vein, the grab rail mounting brackets have seen better days. They were cheap chrome plated zinc so they are cracking up and pitted. I will temporarily fill the grab rail mount holes with 3M 4000UV as I will be using those holes later. I want to seal out all of the potential water intrusion for now. When the time comes, i will be thru bolt installing full stainless rail hardware, but I may look into a bronze/brass rail to give it that wicked salty briney patina look. Bright stainless mounts with dingy patina rail. It could look awesome or terrible. Im just thinking about it for now. If not then I will go with a stainless rail but im not going back to aluminum.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9493.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9493.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9491.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9491.jpg.html)
Lastly while on the gel coat repair parade, i have to pay attention to the crap molding work my poor boat endured at the factory 35 years ago. These photos show pock marks which are the result of poor backing with fiberglass of the gel coat that was sprayed in the mold when they made my boat. I am going to grind out any imperfection and do my thing to make them disappear
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9500.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9500.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9501.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9501.jpg.html)
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More of a diary entry than progress but here goes...
Today as I removed all the stored parts I had under the tarp, I got to evaluate them again. Interesting how things change with confidence and experience. I took a look at the gas tank cover which is in disasterous shape and concluded that I will make a new one from scratch. It would take me probably longer to get the original one back in any order than it will take to make a new one. This revelation comes only after the experience of making the hatch doors and came with a deep sigh as I mumbled " here we go again". The tank cover is simply a larger hatch door.
Secondly, the bilge livewell/fish hold. Ive determined that not only will modifying the existing one to fit take alot of time, I am also leaving alot of wasted space as it does not span stringer to stringer. Chances are I will be casting a custom tub that fits exactly how I want it to. :drunken: :drunken: :drunken:
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Today I Dremeled out any screw holes or gel coat imperfections that were on the cap to give the new gel coat a clean fresh surface to bond to. I counted 80 of them! I will fill them with gel coat tomorrow.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9533.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9533.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9526.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9526.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9527.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9527.jpg.html)
I prepared the 2 larger holes for fiberglass repair
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9528.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9528.jpg.html)
I set in 1 layer of 1.5 chopped strand to start. I may do another layer tomorrow. These are not structural repairs so im not worried about making them super stout.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9536.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9536.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9538.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9538.jpg.html)
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Steve I would really consider on all the screw holes if you want a permanent fix is to grind down and fiberglass the holes up. All the vibration the hull receives the gelcoat will just crack and start popping out of the holes. I know it's a lot more work but you won't be disappointed later.
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Thanks for the heads up Fish. I agree that could be an issue. I intend on mixing the gel coat into a paste with west systems 404 which should greatly strengthen it and prevent the cracking pure gel coat could endure. Most of these holes are so small that it would be near impossible to glass them first. If I get a crack here and there later on then I will address those differently.
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Hi Steve, any updates on the rebuild? Seems you lost the summer somehow :scratch:
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Hi Rick. Yeah, slow going. The money just didn't show up to take the next big step of the floor and poured transom. I'm sick over looking at the boat unfinished. I want it done in the worst way. I hope to have a better year this spring/summer and get it done. It will happen!!!
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We know it will :salut:
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Hello Everyone. Long time to see. Ive been busy working and dealing with everyday life. Nothing new to report on the boat as I do not have the funds right now to go forward. I haven't lost the passion to see her sail again someday, it will just take time. Hope all is well with everyone and ill be back soon!!!
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Great hearing from you again Steve. :salut:
We patiently await the continuation of our most documented rebuild.
Good luck. :thumright:
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Great to hear from you, Steve! I'm glad to hear you haven't given up. Sometimes a break is good. Gives you time to plan ahead and think about what you are going to do. We'll be here when you are ready to continue with the project!
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Wow, glad to hear from you again Steve and happy you still have the passion to get it done. :88):
I am slowly getting closer to finishing up mine. When I get to the point where I am not fabricating anything anymore (I am about there) you can have the remaining supplies I have, if that will help you. It's mostly glass - I think you were using vinylester?
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Breaks my heart to see this post from 2014. Where has the time gone? Kids… life… and the boat waits patiently. Well I am freeing up some time and money. I hope to get the floor going in the fall. Picking up the pieces little by little. I joked in a prior post that I hope to have it done by the kids graduation… well I have 3 more years. Picked up a sweet Hynautic k-6 steering ram and rebuilt it. Love that unit. So for now just saving money to get the floor down.
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Hey welcome back Koz. I don't think any of the old timers here haven't wondered what happened to you. I totally get the part about life getting in the way.
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Rick!!!!! Hello. Thanks for the warm re-welcome. I am in utter shock and amazement that it’s been 10 years. I want to laugh and cry. It’s been a good 10 years of total family man Dad life and we are all healthy and well. Very overwhelming. And finally I am seeing a little light at the end of the tunnel where I may be slinging some glass again. Everyone I know closely is sick of hearing about my boat for all this time. I have not lost my lust for it. I told my wife if I die before it’s done lay my body in it, set it on fire and push it into the bay!!! But man is family life expensive!!! I will look into the photo bucket hacks to get my watermarks off and get ready to continue posting. I see there are many pinned forums that should get me up to speed on how the site works now. I am extremely grateful I did post so much as it became a diary of ideas which some I have forgotten the details. I also have to circle back on your posts and see what you and those familiar are up to. More to come! Great to hear from you again! Thank you.
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(Cue Aerosmith “Back in the saddle again”)
Getting the hang of the site and posting pictures. I think I got it. So where am I with this build? What’s the plan? Floor in by sept 7… partial transom repair just after. Motor rebuild over the winter and transom Seacast in the spring. Something that might float by Memorial Day.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24163-2055-IMG9782.jpeg)
I got her all cleaned out, power washed, illuminated and a working tarp. My wife joked that I can post it for “glamping” on Airbnb lol!
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24162-1507-IMG9734.jpeg)
This phot shows a mix of original246CCP parts and 200CCP parts that I kept for reuse or inspiration for design.
I grinded the entire perimeter due channel in prep for the floor. I am hoping to slide the 1/2” prepped marine plywood into that channel forever held by a peanut butter of vinylester resin and some thickener (cabosil/west Systems 403?).
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24171-8680-IMG0917.jpeg)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24172-6866-IMG9824.jpeg)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24168-419-IMG9820.jpeg)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24169-7605-IMG9822.jpeg)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24165-3873-IMG9784.jpeg)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24174-4981-IMG9829.jpeg)
The plywood prep will include a full 360 degree priming of Vinylester Resin (VER for short) and a bottom layer of 1708. The edges of the ply where they meet will be router edged with a V shaped male/female tongue and grove shape to lock them together in a bead of “peanut butter”.
I will incorporate the original bow tub covered with one of my custom hatches, a shortened original gas tank tub (less 16”. I am shortening the gas tank by 17” to reduce it down to 100 gal to move the weight forward to compensate for all the transom additions) and the original bait well covered by a second custom hatch haven’t quite figured out the stern side end as I want to have a completely accessible and visible bilge/transom drain area.
The floor topside will get 3 layers of 1708, staggered seam which will be the terrifying part with 20 mins work time for a one piece lay of 1/2 width times bow to stern length. 6 pieces in total (3 layers times 1/2 width). Stagger will be full 50” width of 1708 starting from port, then edge to edge flat meet up on the starboard sheet, then full 50” width from starboard with edge to edge meet up on port, then right down the middle meetup for 3rd layer. I will add wax to last layer as I will be gel coating in the spring. On that note all VER and gelcoat will be unwaxed until final coat. I am strongly considering adding Duratec for final gel coat layer.
The channel prep featured sanding with a flap wheel and a grinding wheel to shape the channel even, clean all surfaces with a fresh grind to glass, and taper the top edge to a knife edge to best accommodate the top layers of 1708. The unknown is what kind of issue am I going to run into adding the next piece of flooring to the one prior. Luckily the taper of the boat shape may help sliding in one piece of flooring onto the last. I don’t know. Never did this before so I will adjust as I go as it is all theory right now.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24178-3602-IMG9911.jpeg)
I built this work table consisting of a 2x6 frame, 3/4” plywood and 3/4” melamine. Resin doesn’t stick too well to waxed melamine. She is HEAVVVY but flat and stout. The plan is to do all the floor piece prep on it then bolt it to the transom throug the drain hole to use as a form for the outer transom skin closure. (More on the transom plan later).
Just about where the bracket will sit. Transom to be fully closed off and capped with a bait prep station. Seacast to be poured about 6” higher than that bracket.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24177-6622-IMG9839.jpeg)
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(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24179-2609-IMG1807.jpeg)
This is a rendering of what I have in mind to use as a form to close off the transom. The 3/4 melamine is not necessary but is being used right now as a glassing table… so I may remove the 3/4 melamine prior to using it as a form just to save weight. The table as is right now without the 1/4” sheet is around 100 lbs.
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Good to see the progress. You've enough time off now to over-think everything that the boat will need and how to do it, so there is no excuse for slacking now ;-)
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RickK lol… very perceptive and correct. I’ve had 13 years to think. All that time I thought the transom was flat and it wasn’t until I looked at the profile I saw it wasn’t. It curves from the keel. The bracket needs a 13 degree flat spot to bolt to. It wasn’t until I got a board across the back did I realize it’s a multi angle build to maintain the 13 degree flat spot, correct for warping of a failing transom, and to astetically meet the top cap. The drawing may be a bit fuzzy but I will have photos of the real thing as it happens. But the drawing does show the dilemma if I went perfectly flat at 13 degrees… I would be well off the top cap by 6-8 inches.
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How do I modify an existing post? I found a typo
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Do you see a row of buttons in the upper right of your post? If so, one is "Modify".
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I don’t see the modify icon or option. Maybe it’s the iPhone? I will try on a desktop. Thank you.
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It’s been a very productive last few weeks although I do not have much to show for it. One thing is clear is that I have grossly underestimated the amount of time this project is going to take but baby steps forward nonetheless.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24248-8722-IMG0224.jpeg)
Went and got 5 sheets of marine 1/2”plywood from Yukon Lumber out of Norfolk. Nice old school lumber yard. The ply is pretty nice. Not the highest grade I have seen but it will do.
On the same trip I headed over to Eastern Burlap in Norfolk for the sticky and itchy stuff. Great shop. I did a recon run a few weeks ago to scope the place out and get some information. Richard was very patient and knowledgeable. Joe helped me out the day of the big buy and he was great as well. They post their price list online and I found them to be very competitive with what I could find even against the big internet sites. I am very pleased with them.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24249-1360-IMG0219.jpeg)
I used plastic sheeting to create a template. On that template I made a few markings indicating where the outer most fiberglass will go, the shape of the plywood and the shape of the bottom skin of fiberglass that will go on the plywood. The plan is to prime the plywood with thinned vinylester resin, skin the bottom with 1708 and peanut butter it into the existing C channel with West Systems 404
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24247-8762-IMG0226.jpeg)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24233-2778-IMG0231.jpeg)
I tapered the edges of the plywood as the Channel is really tight.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24232-7199-IMG0233.jpeg)
I cut the opening for the in floor hatch.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24230-8911-IMG0236.jpeg)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24267-2341-IMG0237.jpeg)
I set up a two router table to accommodate the perfect set ups for the V shaped tongue and groove I am using to lock the floor sheets together.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24228-8606-IMG0240.jpeg)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24272-3345-IMG0244.jpeg)
I then transferred the pattern onto 1708 and applied it to the plywood with vinylester resin. I am leaving a 1 inch ledge of glass along the mating edge of the plywood to better hold the peanut butter of the next piece of flooring.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24260-3220-IMG0264.jpeg)
Next was glassing mounting tabs onto the original in floor bow storage bin. I tabbed from the outside then turned it over and tabbed from the inner edge for really good strength
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24257-7937-IMG0269.jpeg)
I then installed the tub using 404 peanut butter. Once set up I filled the gaps with PL construction adhesive for water proofing and extra strength.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24251-6047-IMG0321.jpeg)
I installed the first floor section in a bed of 404 peanut butter and sealed any gaps with PL construction adhesive for added strength. Once all the section are in I will coat with 3 layers of 1708 and gelcoat
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24262-673-IMG0351.jpeg)
Grinding grinding grinding…. As close to hell without the heat. Just misery. I ground the gas tank tub and the existing live well tub to repair, patch and modify for install. I took 16 inches of length off the tub as I plan on shortening the new tank by 17 inches to
reduce fuel capacity to 100 gallons and move weight forward. The combination of the added weight on the transom of the bracket and bait station has me conscious of weight distribution. The original setup had the center console over the tank cover. I have moved the center console forward about 30 inches which will leave the tank tub just about where it originally was without being covered by the center console.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24259-5004-IMG1007.jpeg)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24255-6222-IMG1011.jpeg)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24256-6064-IMG0277.jpeg)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24250-1557-IMG0357.jpeg)
The gas tank tub is coming along nicely. I added the original piece back in to save time. I’m not so concerned about the look of the repair as it just has to be strong and not pretty.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24246-4081-IMG0388.jpeg)
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Added the final reinforcement strip on the tank tub modification. Kinda looks like hell in the photos but it will look half decent once gelcoated a solid color. Also as stated before i am not so interested in perfection in areas that will not be seen. Function is good enough. Last step for the tank tub is to make sure I have adequate plywood backing on the outside of the tub for where the gas tank mounting tabs will screw to.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24279-4479-IMG0412.jpeg)
Glassed the underside floor section number two. I added three mahogany reinforcement strips to reduce springy bounce over that long of a span. Kind of wasted space below this section as there is nothing in the hull under this piece.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24278-1389-IMG0411.jpeg)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24277-4232-IMG0413.jpeg)
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All that planning from the left side of your brain while waiting, is paying off now.
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Rick, the obsession is more consuming than ever! I am glad to see the pieces falling into place finally.
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Second floor piece ready for install. What I’ve learned is that this plywood is very thirsty and it may be a good idea to second primer coat before glass. Despite soaking the 1708 fairly heavily I still have some air bubbles in the final piece. Not so worried about it for this piece as it is the underside skin of the floor but topside floor I do not want any imperfections at all.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24284-7599-IMG0425.jpeg)
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Laid the second floor section. Came out great. I am very pleased with how it came out. Bedded it all in West Systems 404. I will follow up with PL 3X Premium where ever I can squeeze it in.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24289-5320-IMG0474.jpeg)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24290-8024-IMG0484.jpeg)
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Your concepts and implementations are smart. Looking good Koz!
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Thank you so much Rick. I am enjoying the journey.
Slight change of process…. Instead of trying to run a large board of plywood along a small router table I thought maybe I would have more control and better results running the router table along the plywood. I need the stops and adjustment of the table to precisely route the wood so it’s not as crazy as it seems. It actually worked out much better. I just grabbed the router by the usual handles and used the table as a guide.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24296-1691-IMG0516.jpeg)
I cut floor piece number 3 and test fit it around the gas tank tub. It fits exactly how I want it to fit.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24294-5017-IMG0517.jpeg)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24295-4774-IMG0518.jpeg)
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Floor section number 3 bottom glassed last night and ready to be trimmed and installed.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24301-6332-IMG0530.jpeg)
Installed the rigging tubes. They are the lightweight thin walled plastic drain pipe. Regular PVC in my opinion was too heavy. I used 5200 to seal it into the PVC fittings and then a pair of 1708 straps to hold in in place.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24300-3150-IMG0531.jpeg)
3rd section of floor installed. Less than 24 hours from tracing to install. Not too shabby. I’m getting the hang of this finally. I couldn’t be happier with the outcome. Piece 4 is just a 48” filler but then the 5th and final piece gets very complicated as it transitions to a rear gunwale which I haven’t quite figured out yet but will have to commit to very soon.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24299-2802-IMG0534.jpeg)
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Faired the transom
Sunday I decided to tackle fairing the inside of the outer transom wall in preparation for its rebuild. I don’t want to finish the floor and limit my work space thus I need to tackle prepping the transom. I expected a miserable day in my Walter White meth suit grinding away for hours. I knew from prior that the remaining wood embedded in the resin doesn’t sand very well. It just kind of smolders and doesn’t cut well. So I started the task with a hammer and chisel to remove the wood. I soon discovered that the chopped strand that they used to affix the transom to the woven roving of the original mold was separating fairly easily. In fact there were voids of dry glass, empty pockets and chunks of amber-like resin filling voids and adding no strength. I am so glad I made these discoveries before I sanded the face of all the junk and glassed to it.
I ended up separating and removing everything that was stuck to the original roving of the hull mold. I will now have a beautifully consistent platform to build the transom onto. I also thinned the transom considerably which will only add to its pliability for manipulating into the final shape I want. I am grateful for the discovery as it would not have been ideal to build on that garbage. It also illustrates why you should not use a flat board like ply or coosa on a transom surface that is curved both horizontally and vertically. Flats on curves leaves voids. Seacast I believe will be perfect for the transom as it will fill any shape. Time will tell.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24306-6921-IMG0551.jpeg)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24304-2020-IMG0556.jpeg)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24303-6336-IMG0562.jpeg)
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This is what the transom looks like after clearing off the old chopped strand with just a hammer and chisel. Still needs some fine tuning with a grinder but it’s a really good surface to build off of.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24310-4534-IMG0595.jpeg)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24309-8932-IMG0596.jpeg)
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Boat update 9/30/24
This weekend was busy with a lot of small odds and ends that do not show for much but are all steps along the way.
First off was a massive Facebook Marketplace score of some beautiful vintage boat jewelry. Old school Crome plated bronze 1.5” barbed thru hulls with most of the chrome gone and beautiful patina… $25 each! These are well over $80 each new. I love the look and strength. I am very excited about these.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24326-8799-IMG0610.png)
I continued to prep the salvaged deck drain tubs taken from my 200CCP. It’s a little bit of a tribute to that boat as it could have been restored but I chose to canabalize it for sake of the 246. It’s a small nod to that boat in tribute. These have to be ground, shaped, fitted and sanded raw in order to be glassed in and gel coated when I spray the floor.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24321-5547-IMG0616.jpeg)
I cut the flanges off of two of the thru hulls to lower the drain height to minimize standing water. You can see the difference between the cut one on the left and the original on the right.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24314-8771-IMG0631.jpeg)
I cut the openings for the cable ways which will come in under the center console. I used a router by eye in 3 directions to estimate where the opening should be then traced a circle with the pipe when I was sure of location. Obviously that’s a long length of pipe and I will cut it to fit under the center console. Worked out well.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24317-1805-IMG0628.jpeg)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24316-5352-IMG0629.jpeg)
This is why to date I still have every scrap of fiberglass i cut out of that boat. I need to fill in the aft coming straight with the existing coming cap. I will cut it at the red line and glass them in.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24325-4491-IMG0612.jpeg)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24329-6425-IMG0614.jpeg)
Pictured is 3 layers of 1/2” ply with 1.5oz Matt layered in between. These will make the bulkhead for the end of the floor. Think of the toe kick on your kitchen cabinets… that what I want to do where the floor meets the aft gunwale. It may be a bit confusing at the moment as to what I am doing with these but It will become clearer as I make progress. I used a few pieces of scrap to created the pieces I need.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24318-7220-IMG0620.jpeg)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24313-350-IMG0632.jpeg)
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Grinding day
I think grinding fiberglass by far is what keeps me from entering the boat renovation trade. It is absolutely miserable. Today I ground the tank tub (once again), the floor drains, the live well and the in floor hatches. Basically feathering the edges preparing them to mate with tabbing wherever fiberglass will meet it. I also prepped the small section of transom cap that I will need to patch in I would never have thought that I would put so much work into the tank tub. So far it has been a monster but the details matter in the end. I think it is ready for install.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24338-7985-IMG0672.jpeg)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24336-8283-IMG0673.jpeg)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24337-5271-IMG0674.jpeg)
I mocked in sections 4 and 5. It is my first glimpse of what the floor looks like it it’s entirely. I am definitely pleased. Section 4 is just an easy piece along the gas tank tub but section 5 gets very complex and critical as the bulkhead I am adding to the end of it is the foundation for the transom cap. There is a lot going on in section 5. I am adding the 2nd hatch for the original in floor live well. I got it cut as needed and applied the bottom layer of fiberglass.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24335-8863-IMG0677.jpeg)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24334-8845-IMG0678.jpeg)
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Looking good - nice progress Koz. Don't forget to put in the PVC pipe so you keep the low point of the boat the same. If I haven't already posted this:
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Here is a link to where I explain the thought of the PVC pipe
http://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=13148.msg133124#msg133124
Here is a link to where I show what is actual problem
http://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=13148.msg133556#msg133556
Here is a link to Hawgleg's rebuild that shows the PVC pipe installation to keep a drain at the new low point of the boat
http://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=13148.msg134262#msg134262
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Thank you Rick. That’s an awesome idea. Love it and will use it. My bilge is really low right now and I was going to cut the tabbing around it to keep it that way. This approach makes things lot easier. The other idea was to let it fill with SeaCast and re drill it but wither way I don’t want the tabbing to raise the drain area on the floor and create a puddle in front of it. Good stuff. Thank you.
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Another good day
Another good day in the garage. Had to install section 4 and 5 again for mockup of in floor drains and cut rear gunnel/floor bulkhead to size. Very exciting to see the drains mocked in.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24345-8432-IMG0688.jpeg)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24346-4684-IMG0689.jpeg)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24347-6521-IMG0690.jpeg)
Question … what is the official name of the piece circled in red? Is a a stern gunnel or a bulkhead? Not sure what to call it.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24339-1510-IMG0688.jpeg)
Primed the remaining floor pieces and added the underside 1708 to sections 4. Section 5 still needs some work as the rear gunnel/bulkhead and the live well are getting screwed and glassed to it before install. I have weight concerns with attaching the live well to the underside of the floor by just tabbing to one layer of 1708 so I’m going to get creative with a hinge as bracket. More on that later.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24344-8757-IMG0691.jpeg)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24341-1080-IMG0694.jpeg)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24340-8703-IMG0695.jpeg)
This piece is an afterthought. The forward edge of the center console is only being bolted to the floor. It is also going to affix the pilot house. So while I can get under the floor I’m going to peanut butter this piece of double 1/2” ply under the floor right where it will screw down to give it more support.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24343-3266-IMG0692.jpeg)
These are the sections it port and starboard comings that I need to fill in. I am adding a mounting tab for the transom cap to bolt to. This will make more sense later.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24342-662-IMG0693.jpeg)
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Nice progress Koz.
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Used a router to recess the floor drain tabs so when they are glassed in they will be flush
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24354-3578-IMG0703.jpeg)
Assembling the transom floor bulkhead. I used 3” x 1/4 screws to attach them together and to the floor as well as a strip of wet 1708.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24355-493-IMG0707.jpeg)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24349-5558-IMG0719.jpeg)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24351-6954-IMG0721.jpeg)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24352-4294-IMG0722.jpeg)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24350-7085-IMG0720.jpeg)
It will get glassed as well so I added a rounded fillet to make the glass lay easier. I rounded all the edges with a router for the same purpose
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24353-5034-IMG0723.jpeg)
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Sect 5 progress 2
Set the center console fastener backing plate. I used PL in the middle and west systems 404 peanut butter on the edges. Held it in place with a bottle jack and a block of wood.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24361-8821-IMG0777.jpeg)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24362-234-IMG0778.jpeg)
Test fit the 4th and 5th floor sections yet again to test tank tub figment, trace the mounting lip so I can recess the plywood and set the floor drains. I tacked the floor drain in place temporarily with drywall screws. Their placement has to be exact so I figured this the best way to hold them in place. There is an order of operations with the drains so I feel it will be best to peanut butter them in place now. I am very pleased with the progress.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24360-833-IMG0775.jpeg)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24364-1246-IMG0782.jpeg)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24363-8558-IMG0781.jpeg)
The transom bulkhead makes getting a wrench on the thru hull nut impossible unless I wanted to buy a huge deep socket. The solution? Install 1.5” PVC collars to move the nut to an accessible location.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24357-5842-IMG0770.jpeg)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24358-56-IMG0771.jpeg)
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I routered and grinded recesses to fit the lips of the hatch and gas tank tub. I spent so much time feathering down the mounting edge of the tub and hatches when last second it hit me to recess the lips into the plywood.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24375-1505-IMG0898.jpeg)
Peanut butter faired the floor drain in preparation for fiberglass
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24374-1995-IMG0895.jpeg)
I felt it would be much easier to get two coats of 1708 on the transom bulkhead now due to the intricate shape of it rather than try to attempt it installed. I did two layers in two parts
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24376-3186-IMG0903.jpeg)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24389-6768-IMG0920.jpeg)
Installed the hatches in a bed of peanut butter and faired them for glass
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24379-6851-IMG0928.jpeg)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24381-7744-IMG0931.jpeg)
Turned the floor over and filled the gap between the hatch and plywood with peanut butter and glassed over it wrapping the hatch a bit for added strength.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24382-8490-IMG0945.jpeg)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24383-5379-IMG0946.jpeg)
Positioned the live well tub over the hatch and tabbed it in. Once this floor section is installed I will add a support under the tub.
The fifth and final floor section is almost done! A ton of tedious work on this section.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24386-2379-IMG0951.jpeg)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24387-4996-IMG0954.jpeg)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24388-8127-IMG0952.jpeg)
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(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24390-3014-IMG0961.jpeg)
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Crowing moment…. The floor boards are permanently in! I am very pleased and relieved. It came out as expected with no negative surprises. Definitely a massive undertaking for never have done this before but as always I give credit to this site for showing me the way. I would not have tried it without!
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24407-2798-IMG0996.jpeg)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24404-1561-IMG0989.jpeg)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24403-6530-IMG0986.jpeg)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24406-6073-IMG0993.jpeg)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24405-3799-IMG0992.jpeg)
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Coming along nicely Koz :thumleft:
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:c017: thank you. I am elated!
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So I got to (over) thinking about the gas tank tub and what forces will be on it. The gas tank tub and cover will hold the captains seat (jockey seat), flip back cooler seat the gas tank and a support for the roof of the pilot house. I have my concerns about the tub being mounted 360 degrees by a a 2 inch strip of peanut butter. So I decided to pad out the upper walls a bit so the tub fits tighter and later sending stainless screws through the tub, through the pads and into the stringers to help make sure everything stays put. Basically plywood spacers to fill the void between the tub and the stringer. (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24419-2205-IMG1029.jpeg)
Gas tank tub is installed. The point of no return as far as any underfloor access. After many test fits to make adjustments it snugly fits in. I tacked the edges down with drywall screws to help lessen high spots. I will remove the screws and fair with peanut butter, then I will sink about 5 screws a side as mentioned above.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24420-14-IMG1031.jpeg)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24421-7125-IMG1032.jpeg)
Next step is to prepare full floor templates for 3 layers of 1708
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Floor template
I saved all the plastic sheeting templates I made for the plywood and laid them on the floor. I taped them all together into one sheet. I disregarded all the black sharpie markings and used a red, green and purple sharpie to mark the exact shape of each of the 3 layers of 1708 I plan on installing. I drew in where the center console and the coffin box will be. I plan on hiding all 3 seams under the width of the coffin box for minimal fairing. The seam for first layer (purple) will be 8 inches off center to the port side. The seam for the second layer (green) will be 8” to starboard of center and the final layer (red) will be centerline. You may have to zoom in to see the markings. I will lay two widths side by side, 20 feet long of 1708 on plastic on my garage floor and transfer the pattern. I will use the corresponding color marker so I can tell which layer is which.
I realize looking at the photos that the different colors didn’t photograph well but they are distinct on the real patterns.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24426-2822-IMG1046.jpeg)
[img width= height=]https://classicaquasport.com/ygallery/data/24/24427-8406-IMG1043.jpeg[/img]
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24425-2035-IMG1048.jpeg)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24424-7925-IMG1044.jpeg)
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Patterns
Spent a day or two cleaning out the garage. Yes… that is the same garage in the prior photos. I did a major clean up and added a shelf along the front wall to squirrel more stuff away.
Anyway I laid plastic sheeting down and pulled two 20 foot pieces of 1708 side by side and laid the plastic template over it. I am working last layer to first layer so this is the “red” final layer. All that means is that the seem is exactly down the middle. Kinda gave me anxiety over how much waste there is but I am telling myself I will use it elsewhere. After very carefully straightening out and positioning all the materials I used a red sharpie to traced the red markings from the plastic onto the glass, cut it and rolled it up on a cardboard fabric roll.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24437-8889-IMG1089.jpeg)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24438-7391-IMG1091.jpeg)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24439-8080-IMG1092.jpeg)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24441-3538-IMG1095.jpeg)
I then took scissors and trimmed the plastic sheeting template down to the “green” mid layer pattern so all the “red” sized template was removed. I then laid it down, traced it, cut it and rolled it. My old broken body is hurting! The green template has the seam line 8” of the two sheets of glass off center as to stagger the seam.
Tomorrow I will cut the last “purple” template and prep the floor for installation. The purple layers seam is 8” off center the opposite side of green.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24442-8714-IMG1096.jpeg)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24443-2143-IMG1097.jpeg)
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First layer floor
Passed another milestone today…. I laid the first layer of 1708 onto the floor. First I prepped the floor by giving it a light sand and paying particular attention to any bumps or high spots that were left from any of the peanut butter filleting I was doing. Then the floor got an acetone wipe down. Then I transferred the first layer from the plastic sheeting onto the floor using the “tablecloth trick” of giving the plastic a quick tug to slide it from underneath the 1708. I used a sweeping broom along the same 45 degree direction as the 1708 and smoothed it out to where I was satisfied with its position. This layer was critical as it only met or barely overlaid the existing floor items. The next two layers will cover more but this one was the filler or transition piece from all the existing items to the new glass. I used a paint roller and a roller pan at first but it was going too slow so I resorted to pouring the resin right out of the mixing tub onto the glass and then spreading it with the roller. This worked out much faster. I used a paint roller to spread the resin and get it all even then a fiberglass roller to work out all the air and work the glass flat. I made an “island” over the gas tank tub which definitely helped as well as plastic covered the hatches and taping over what was not to be glassed. I am very happy with the results and super relieved. I have been stressing this operation for over 10 years. Now. Glad it went well but I have two more layers to go. Its a very cool night at about 45 degrees but mid 60’s tomorrow so I’m counting on a slow kick to help settle any bubbles even more. I used 7 liters of resin.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24466-8164-IMG1152.jpeg)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24467-2245-IMG1154.jpeg)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24468-4737-IMG1157.jpeg)
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(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24471-4510-IMG1160.jpeg)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24472-4753-IMG1161.jpeg)
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:thumleft: nice job Koz
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Thank you Rick. It’s an amazing experience to be completing these levels of the restoration . I have never laid this large of a piece of glass at one time before. Definitely gratifying to have successfully applied this layer.
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Second layer is down. No surprises. It went well. Poured right from the tub and used a 3” mini roller and an 8” paint roller. Then chased the bubbles with a fiberglass roller. Worked much neater and methodical than the first go around. Lessons learned. 7 1/2 liters of resin.
Probably Tuesday night for the last layer. Weather is 60’s during the day and mid 40’s for a low.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24502-8138-IMG1166.jpeg)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24501-6897-IMG1168.jpeg)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24500-2092-IMG1169.jpeg)
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3rd and final 1708 floor layer is in the books. Once again very pleased. Definitely surreal to have passed this milestone after all this time. I know I keep repeating myself on that fact but the journey to get this boat done has been really rewarding.
I have to make some gel coat repairs along the bottom of the gunwale which was bad factory casting of hollows behind the gel coat in the mold. I’m going to mix some Cabo and gelcoat to patch the small voids then I’m going to mask it off and shoot the entire floor and a few inches up the gunwale.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24515-6260-IMG1183.jpeg)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24516-7245-IMG1186.jpeg)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24519-6502-IMG1187.jpeg)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24518-1651-IMG1193.jpeg)
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:49:
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Ugh what a difference a day makes. It was damp the day I laid the 3rd layer and it got quite cool out. It gassed pretty bad over night speckled the perfect layer with small bubbles. Not a huge deal but definitely annoying and irritating to me. It’s going to warm up a bit for sat and Sunday which should give me enough time for some gelcoat fairing and to shoot a floor layer. I am doubting I will have time for the outer transom closure this fall but hopefully we take a warm spell in the coming weeks.
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:great02:
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Slow going on the prep work. Started chipping away at the factory defects where the gel coat was not backed well and was hollow and easy to chip. I made quite a mess. Definitely a lot of small repairs before I can shoot the floor. I’m going to fair all the imperfections with a “peanut butter” of gelcoat and cabosil which will be around the hatches, around the gas tank tub, the entire radius around where the floor turns up toward the gunwales and the pictured factory flaws. I also need to filet chop strand above the floor drains where the transom bulkhead meets the side gunwales. Didn’t get quite as far as I wanted to today and tomorrow is a little busy for me but I only have about 2 days of weather before a cold spell on Wednesday. A lot of small details that need to be addressed because I know they will annoy the hell out of me if I can see something I could have addressed before finish coat. I’m not a perfectionist by any means but I came this far I don’t want to be lazy in the 11th hour.
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coming along great. are you applying gelcoat for the floor or a deck paint? If gelcoat, how do you apply...brush or spray gun? also, do you use gel coat with or wihtout wax?
i'm currently doing some deck repairs....
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Thank you! I appreciate the praise. First off I am an amateur taking on this project for my personal challenge and enjoying my trial and errors along the way. What I do may or may not be the way the pros would do it but I’m just enjoying the experience. With that said I prefer gel coat over paint because in my opinion it is easier to patch and fix later and besides the entire boat is gel coat so why not keep it. Yes, paint finished nicer ans may be easier to apply but it may get complicated later with fixing paint on existing gel coat. Gel coat has a learning curve to apply it properly with minimal work fairing it smooth to make it look as good as paint. I have applied gel coat in molds by dump gun but I have never tried to do large presentable section like this floor with the hopes of good results. What I have learned through trial and error is spraying gel will yield better results than brushing it. It isn’t very consistent like good paint. Rolling and tipping doesn’t work as it is too thick and likes to stick to itself and glob. I am going to be spraying it with a dump gun. I think an HPLV gun is difficult because of the limited work time before it sets up in the gun and you need to dismantle for full cleaning. You don’t have to worry about clogging anything in a dump gun as you only have a large tip to clean. You can thin gel coat a small percentage with styrene (5%? I have to double check my percent) to make it shoot smoother but then you lose thickness and buildup and you may have to adjust tip size. Also there are additives like Duratec which thins it, makes it easier to spray and gives gloss. I have not used the duratec yet nor will I for the floor as I don’t want it too shiny and slick. I will use it on the transom and the cap. Also I am going to spray non skid sections in a tan color gel later so no sense under coating with expensive duratec.
Sorry if I rambled but that’s about all I know. I think tonight may be the night I spray the floor so I will address some of your questions as I write about my experience spraying. I figure the floor is a safe starting point to practice with the dump gun because it’s easiest to sand versus curves and shapes on the cap. Also much of the floor is covered by the coffin box and center console so if I screw up bad I don’t need to fix the entire floor… just where it will show. If I have decent success with the floor then I will look to spray the transom after its rebuild. Then I would like to take on the rest of the cap to behind the rub rail. One step at a time. Let’s see how tonight goes. In the mean time keep asking around, search videos and websites and search other builds to get an understanding of the many techniques for both paint and gelcoat and go with the one that makes sense to you.
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As for wax… you add wax to the last layer so it will cure fully. If you are doing multiple coats you want to apply the next layer to unwaxed gel. If you happen to wax and have a second thought you can lightly sand and clean wax with acetone. Gel will not fully cure without wax or PVA. It has to be encapsulated from oxygen to cure 100%. PVA is a water soluble coating that you spray on and will film over the gel and can be washed off with water. I am cautious to introduce water in these builds so I have not used it yet.
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Thanks very much. This is all great info! Please keep posting your progress and I would be very interested to know how it goes tonight after you spray the gelcoat. Also, are you doing a diamond pattern for the deck...would be interested to know what you use to get a pattern...
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I’ve seen diamond patterns used and that would be super cool but I think that may be past my ability and need. My thought is to mask off patterns with tape and leave shapes that look factory then spray them with tan colored gel containing an anti slip additive like a mild grit sand.
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First coat of gel coat is down. I definitely need more trial and error with the dump gun. It sputtered and shot heavy as it is designed to do. It did the trick of getting a layer down but it wasn’t elegant. I need to experiment with different tips to get it to where it will shoot a decently smooth coat. I think a smaller tip will shoot slower lighter and more even for future final layers. For now another dump layer or two for quick build will be good. This layer was just to seal the fiberglass for the winter but I’m hoping for a warm spell to go another coat or two.
This first layer is like the 4 am last call lights coming on at the Bar and showing the truth… I have some fairing to do to make it look acceptable to me. I am impressed with how well the plywood floor sections went together as you have to almost know where the seams were to see anything. The fairing around the tank tub, hatches and floor drains are definitely within range of correcting to near perfect. Definitely a proud moment for me.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24526-5713-IMG1240.jpeg)
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for a first coat, that looks really good! keep posting your progress!
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Thank you. For the most part it’s good. Definitely need a few more thick coats of buildup. If you zoom in these are the areas that need attention and fairing…
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Very nice. Please keep us posted.
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Thank you! I appreciate it. I will definitely post every step along the way. May be slower going now that the weather is cooling off but I have to cast the transom gunwale/cap and a motor rebuild which I can pull off in a heated garage. Stay tuned
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The weather is too cold to do anything but think. I remember suggestions of rolling the first coat of gel coat and now I understand why. When I sprayed it with the dump gun it settled on top of the fibers of the 1708 and did not seep into the valleys. Think of falling snow on leaves. It’s too thick to seep down into the crevices. So I will roll the next coat to push the gel coat down into the crevices. Basically now I wish I would have rolled the first coat. Is it a big deal?… no. It’s not going to make much of a difference but I would have preferred it that way now that I understand the properties of it a little better. Learning moment. A sprayed first coat did show me the areas I need to fair so it had some positives. Once the weather breaks I will fair the ugly spots, roll and tip, sand then continue spraying even layers.
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After I had a similar first experience I started looking at a dump gun as a way to quickly get gelcoat onto a surface and then I deal with it with a roller. I do my finish spraying with a cheap Harbor Freight HVLP gun.
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I did use a dump but I should have rolled it after. I know people use HPLV’s but I would think you have to work super quick. I didn’t clean the tip between one refill and it started to clog a bit. It took 4 dump gun cups to coat the floor. The nice thing about the “cheap” Amazon dump gun is that it comes with 6 tips so I want to experiment with a smaller tip to see if I can get HPLV results with the dump gun using a smaller tip. The floor I’m not super worried about as so little of it will show in white as I intend on spraying anti skid patterns in tan. Plus when you factor in a the center console, coffin box and seating there isn’t much floor visible. Also the yet to be made fast tank cover accounts for a lot of the useable floor space. That’s also why I went gel coat over paint …. You can sand it down and go over it as many times as you want to get a desired finish. If this coat was paint I would be very disappointed in the finish with the amount of imperfections I need to fix but didn’t see them until after 1st coat. It’s all some good learning curve material that I like to share to maybe teach the next guy what to look out for.
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I’ve been thinking ahead about the teak work. I’ve been keeping my eye out on marketplace for affordable teak as I will not pay retail for it if I don’t have to. I have time. I bought one smaller piece of rough cut about 2”. I’ve also been keeping my eye out for a planer. Well one finally fell into my price range and I jumped on this heavy, overbuilt craftsman.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24621-2436-IMG1681.jpeg)
After playing with the set up and running some non teak through it my first thought was why did I not get one sooner!!!! You can sand for days and still not get the finish a few passes gives you. It’s amazing.
So with the minimalist of training and confidence I decided to go right for my most valuable pieces the Coming boards. I ran the starboard side and in complete awe and amazement could not believe my eyes at the beauty of the grain of this piece. I’ve never seen teak like this. The grain is almost
A burl. Must have been a core piece right off the trunk. The photos don’t do it justice. Here is starboard coming board after planing next to the port side before planing.
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Well then I planed the port side. UGHHH WHY AQUASPORT WHY?????? The port side was not the same teak and was more of a standard look. So now they don’t match but oh well. The planer is an amazing tool that is going to produce some great teak for the boat both in factory reproductions and custom additions. Stay tuned.
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(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24628-6671-IMG1680.jpeg)
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Check out this place. It's in Sarasota, FL just north of the airport. I worked just a block south from this place. They have just 2 buyers and travel the world to buy teak. The custom work they do is stunning. Seems the person that goes out to measure the project is eventually the person that cuts all the pieces and assembles the project in the shop. Then goes out to install the project.
Anyway, you might find some off cuts or stuff they can't use, to buy? Worth a shot.
https://www.teakdecking.com/
Aquasports were built one block north of their building.
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Wow that’s some beautiful work. The technology they are using is crazy. They would probably charge me more than my whole boat is worth to do the work I want. Plus the stuff I’m doing is basic trim work. Nothing too technical. Just have to source the teak at a reasonable price which means private sales on marketplace when then pop up. I just have to have patience and diligence to keep an eye on the listings. The good thing about the trim is it does not hold me up for a second. I can set sail without a stick of teak and add it as I get it. Sure… I want it now but I’m far from sailing at the moment. I am aiming for Memorial Day weekend hopefully but I still need $1500 in sea cast and a gas tank as big ticket items.
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Have the lengths/widths ready and call them to check if they have 2nds or off cuts that are long/wide enough. What do you have to lose?
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Spent a day milling some woodwork with the table saw and planer. Top is the original piece and below it is the reproduction piece so far. Still have to router the edges round and final Sind and shape. I will utilize a few of the original pieces and make the ones that are missing. I plan on finishing all the pieces with Sikkens Cetol. Great stuff.
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Here is my process so far on repairing a broken corner on one of the coming boards. The color is a little off but I got the grain going pretty much in the same direction. I have it in the house so the wood burning stove in my living room can cure the Gorilla glue. I plan on shaping it tomorrow.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24656-3277-IMG1958.jpeg)
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Came out more than acceptable. Can’t wait to coat it in cetol. (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24663-4333-IMG1959.jpeg)
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20 degrees outside keeps me in the garage for now. Started tearing apart the motors. I have a 1987 Evinrude 200 complete, a 225 block, and a 1993 leg. I want to take the 1987 200 power head and gear case with the 225 intake and put it on the 1993 leg which has the upgraded tilt and trim. The power head came right off nicely. Someone greased the bolts nicely. The lower came off quite easily too. I will rebuild the 200 power head with the 225 intake to make a 225.
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(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24665-2356-IMG1965.jpeg)
Mounted the 1993 leg on the stand to find 2 engine mounting bolts salted in solid. Beat the hell out of one and got it to move. The second one will need time. It amazes me that salt can hold a bolt in a non threaded smooth hole like this. Incredible. It’s like it’s welded. Not my first time dealing with this. You have to be patient because if you break the bolt and can’t get it out the leg is scrap metal. I fear what taking off the lower will be like but I’ll get to that after I get the bolt out
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Picking away at the motor. Honed the cylinders. Tedious task of cleaning all parts and scraping gaskets. Coming along nicely.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24695-404-IMG2037.jpeg)
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*****HOLY GRAIL TEAK ALERT*****
A man about an hour from me posted on Facebook marketplace with vintage, virgin Burmese Teak that’s over 50 years old. After gasping and catching my breath I messaged him with my purpose for the teak hoping that he would sell me some of it as he was looking to sell the whole lot. I told him a little about the boat and how I would love some 50 year old teak on my 50 year old boat. To my surprise he agreed. I got some money together but not quite as much as I would like but I think it’s going to be enough teak me to finish the big show pieces. I canceled everything that evening to make sure I got there. In the rain and traffic I got there in an hour and a half to meet Roy and his brother. Turns out their father made speaker cabinets with it and it was stored in an attic, pin flat, dry, until this day. The wood is BEAUTIFUL!! I can’t wait to plane it and really see the grain. The piece I bought was 1” by 12” by 9 foot rough cut.i also got a few smaller pieces as well. I am trying to decide the best use. I’m thinking I may remake the coming boards as I can get both of them out of this piece and that preserves the majority of it intact. I would be a shame to cut it up for smaller pieces. It is not the best use for me to leave it whole as I have coming boards. Tough call. I have to respect the wood. I have months before I have to make a decision but in the mean time I am so excited. I am grateful to Roy and his brother as I got the feeling this wood and their fathers use for it meant something to them and that they saw that I had great respect and value for what it was so maybe that’s why they agreed to my small purchase knowing the teak will be a showcased highlight of the build. It’s just one more story that this journey of the build is accumulating. When I talk about the boat I will mention the history of the teak and how blessed I am to have gotten it and thank Roy and his Brother every time.
250 board feet of 50+ year old Burmese teak is still available if anyone craves it. I suggest you move fast and be ready to get it. I am an hour away and would be happy to help but I can’t be making 3 hour round trips for free. The ad is in Virginia Beach Facebook marketplace.
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(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24779-8699-IMG2442.jpeg)
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To clarify I did get a few smaller cuts that were already planed. That’s the close up photo above
One more photo just to show how large this piece is
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Soldier on Kaptain. Your build is super cool. Been Inspirational.
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Soldier on Kaptain. Your build is super cool. Been Inspirational.
Thank you so much. This site inspired me many years ago so I’m happy to give back. Looking forward to getting it done. The list is not so daunting anymore. The worst is behind me. That floor was a monster to wrap my head around but it went smoothly. On to fun stuff that will challenge my creativity.
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Motor update… cylinders are honed. New rings are on. Cylinder heads on and torqued. Flywheel rebuilt. Many many many parts cleaned and ready for install. Should have a mountable power head in a few days then I have to mothball everything until temps some up so I can paint everything with automotive grade 2 part white paint. Rattle can junk just doesn’t hold up. No need to go expensive marine grade as I will never dock the boat and always trailer so it will never soak in the water for long.
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What a great thread, 14 years and still going. Keep up the good work, the end result will be something to be proud of! Good Luck to you, hope you finish soon.
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What a great thread, 14 years and still going. Keep up the good work, the end result will be something to be proud of! Good Luck to you, hope you finish soon.
Thank you! 14 years…. I don’t know if I should be proud or embarrassed lol. My fear with finishing is that I may enjoyed building it more than using it. But yea at some point I have to get er done and feed some fish some tasty hooks. Trying to make this summer the deadline. Super excited and motivated about the steps ahead. Stay tuned it will be like nothing anyone has seen before especially the transom build. I have ideas! Thanks again for the warm comment
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So what is this and why did I make it?
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(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24845-1676-IMG2774.jpeg)
So in overthinking everything I do I was thinking about the gas tank quandary…. You want a sealed gas tank tub so it will contain a fuel leak but you don’t water collecting for years, submersing your fuel tank and rotting it out in half the time. The solution….a fuel tank tub drain with a valve. This way I can open the valve in the bilge area and monitor what comes out… nothing… water… fuel… fuel and water … and be able to keep my tank dry and act accordingly should I have a fuel leak. This way I can monitor it. I will keep the valve closed and regularly open it and see if anything comes out. A little nutty and overkill maybe but for me it’s peace of mind. I never promised a boring build!
I even figured out how I’m going to install it and I will share that when the time comes as I am going to leave that hole as long as I can.
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:think: :88):
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Getting closer
I spent Friday night fairing out the floor with gelcoat and cabosil. It doesn’t photo well but basically I am smoothing out the floor to my liking before I start the final buildup of gelcoat.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24867-3540-IMG2938.jpeg)
Getting closer to closing off the transom. Figured now would be a good time to fixed the smashed port-gunnel corner. I am not sure what caused the damage as I got it this way.
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I realized I should have done it before I tied the floor into the cap but I used a floor jack and bought myself the clearance I needed to slip a sandwich of 1.5 oz chopped and 1708.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24864-2366-IMG2933.jpeg)
I taped everything off, wet some glass, set it up then released the jack which lowered the cap back down squeezing the glass in place. I then added the screws back to squeeze it all in place then used a chip brush to make sure everything is where I wanted it..
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I drowned the broken fibers in 404 peanut butter for added strength.
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I then continued to install the original pieces of the transom cap that I prepped a few months ago. I tacked them in place with screws and started to glass the pieces in with a strip of 1708.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24872-1850-IMG2951.jpeg)
I beveled the edges with a grinder and laid a narrow strip into the bevel. It’s hard to see in the photo but that’s why it’s a thin strip of glass
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Very cool
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Thank you Duffy I appreciate it!
Powerhead is ready
Powerhead is complete and ready to mount. Good riddance. I’ve done a few of these in my day but I forgot how tedious a ring job with a proper cleaning, inspection and reassembly is. Should be a really solid motor. I’m pleased with what I had to work with and the outcome. Time to drop this one on a dolly, clean up the tools and tables and shift gears to fiberglass and gelcoat.
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