Classic AquaSport
Aquasport Mechanicals - things that need a wrench, screwdriver or multimeter => Engines & engine woes => Topic started by: tonycastro1 on March 23, 2011, 04:49:37 PM
-
Im Going to repower, Tired of throwing good money at this engine. NOW, ZUke i hear is a good engine but has issues with warrenty,Yami has great rep. but is so expenssive,Mercury i hear is high maintanence., Can anyone who has repowered a 24.5 cc give me some feedback as to which way to go. Thanks guys...
-
etecs are supposed to cost less and reqire less maintainance :salut:
-
See if you can find the last episode of Ship Shape TV. The G man just went through initial costs and scheduled maintenance for new 4 strokes and the E-Tec. I just caught the last 10 minutes of the show and I didnt have it recorded. I could not believe what they were talking about for scheduled dealer maintenance for these new engines. They were talking about $2000 like it was nothing. Evinrude E-Tec was the least expensive and they don't want you to touch the engine for 350 hours and then hit you with a $1000 scheduled maintenance bill! I`ve owned 2 strokes for 15 years and never put close to $1000 in them. I know we will all have to switch over to 4 strokes some day but I will gladly wait my turn and hopefully they will be lighter and have some performance close to what 2 strokes were.
-
See if you can find the last episode of Ship Shape TV. The G man just went through initial costs and scheduled maintenance for new 4 strokes and the E-Tec. I just caught the last 10 minutes of the show and I didnt have it recorded. I could not believe what they were talking about for scheduled dealer maintenance for these new engines. They were talking about $2000 like it was nothing. Evinrude E-Tec was the least expensive and they don't want you to touch the engine for 350 hours and then hit you with a $1000 scheduled maintenance bill! I`ve owned 2 strokes for 15 years and never put close to $1000 in them. I know we will all have to switch over to 4 strokes some day but I will gladly wait my turn and hopefully they will be lighter and have some performance close to what 2 strokes were.
ETEC all the way, I was very close to getting a great deal on a low hour used 225, when I did my restore and re-power, but the deal didn't go through. I wouldn't even have had to re-rig from the 97 Ocean Runner. I have the Yami HPDI and it's OK, but my friends have a few Etecs, and they are so quiet, smooth, tons of torque, and great on gas. I think this video speaks volumes for the Etec.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-7I00cZUE0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-7I00cZUE0)
-
Guys am with you, particularly the torque. And especially the maintenance.
Although have to say the 115 Suzy four Fitz and I ran was a good-running motor. Same block Jesse has.
And the new 2 stroke Mercs are supposed to to get great mileage, reliable, and light in weight.
-
Guys am with you, particularly the torque. And especially the maintenance.
Although have to say the 115 Suzy four Fitz and I ran was a good-running motor. Same block Jesse has.
And the new 2 stroke Mercs are supposed to to get great mileage, reliable, and light in weight.
I just like the look of that sleek white Etec on the back of that clean Aquasport.
-
Marc, you're right. Not only do they run good, they look good. Nice shape, color, finish, graphics.....Aquasport eye-candy :thumright:
-
Everyone will be naturally biased towards the engine they own now. For example: I REALLY like my Suzuki and will probably never go back to a 2 stroke engine. This question has been asked a lot, and the usual answer is to go with the brand that has the best service available in your area. You can't go wrong with any of the new outboards on the market today.
To be fair, the maintenance schedule claims from ETEC are a little exaggerated. For example- Evinrude claims you don't need to change the gear lube until 3yrs/350hrs of use. Well why not? Have they come out with some new advanced gearcase along with the strategically timed oil injection?
They're just pushing the maintenance interval- you can most likely run the same gear lube in any engine for 3 years (and lots of people do) and get away with it. And most of the other "maintenance intervals" that Evinrude claims 4 strokes need that the ETEC's don't are "inspection". There's oil changes, but if you're taking a 4 stroke engine to the shop to change the oil, I'd take your man card.
Sure, you can claim $$$ saved in maintenance, but how much are you spending on 2 stroke oil?
ETEC's aren't that much lighter than comparable 4 stroke engines. I've run 2 stroke engines on every boat I've owned up until purchasing my Zuke, and the difference in low end torque between the two engines is negligible. If you were running a bass boat with a huge hole shot, you'd want a 2 stroke and could tell a difference, but with the performance our Aqua's offer, you really can't tell the difference.
I still hear reports all the time of commercial fishermen racking up 4000-5000 hrs on 4 stroke engines before repowering. Trust me, these guys aren't strictly adhering to these maintenance schedules.
The maintenance called for on 4 stroke engines is mostly money making ploys by the outboard companies and the dealerships.
-
Zuke 300... :thumleft: :thumleft:
-
The problem I see with the E-Tec value proposition is that BRP is asking the consumer to be part of their product R & D on the consumers dime. So at the end of 350 hrs you have an engine that needs major maintenance. What about stuck bolts, driveshaft spline lubrication, internal fuel filters. E-Tec claims that the secret to the long life gearcase is matched gears,metallurgy,advanced seal design and precision clearances among other things. Well quite frankly, every other outboard manufacturer does the same thing using very precision CNC machining for gear hobbing, line boring,etc. Hands down, Mercury has had the most reliable gearcase designs of any manufacturer for many years and has proven it through racing R & D and durability testing. As Jesse says, any outboard could probably go for 350 hours on original gearlube, buts whats left when you crack that screw and metal fines and sludge ooz out of the gearcase. I think the E-Tec value propostion gives the average boater a false sense of security about product durability. A good example is pink coolant and 100.000 mile spark plugs that was the rave some time ago in our vehicles that the OEMs claimed as maintence free. So when your cooling system was plugged with sludge and your cylinder heads were stripped from siezed plugs, what did they care? It was out of warranty anyway. I happen to like the E-Tec engine design and I've been a Mercury guy for 25 years. I get 20 years out of an outboard by cutting the factory maintenance intervals in half and afford it by doing the work myself using a very ridged, documented and factory service manual procedures.
-
i work in a high and dry marina, out of 200+ boats we have in our building, only 3 of them have e-tecs. a 22 pursuit(single 250), a 25 robalo(twin 150's), and a 31 cape horn(twin 250's)... so far im not impressed... a good majority, probably 2/3 of the outboard powered boats are powered by a yamaha, the other 1/3, mercury....
we do have a few boats with 4stroke yamaha's with well over 600 or 700 hours... and we did have a customer that had 3500 documented hours on a 140 zuki...
personally i am a fan of mercury, but ill run my 'Rude till the day she dies... :salut:
-
Yamaha's are great but i think their marketing is even better than their engines,thats why there's so many out there.
-
Go to Africa, South America, Southeast Asia, what do you see on transoms? Yams...
But do a search on THT on 4-S Yammis, as far as corrosion in the exhaust...
-
The E-tech is at least 10 years behind in the development of the DFI outboard,
Take it from someone who runs both a opti max and a e-tech for a living there is no comparison.
As soon as we can find another hull to put that junk e-tech on even though its still under warrenty its gone!
E-tech spent way too much on infomercials and advertising comparing a two stroke to a four stoke just to show us something everyone already knows that a 2 stroke has more torque than a 4 stroke.
If you want the hands down best fuel economy and performance buy a Opti Max. Even four strokes don't come close.
I do have some friends that guide with four stroke suzuki's that put ton's of hours on them and really like them, the problem they have is when they need parts, service etc it can be very limited.
Capt Matt
-
If you want the hands down best fuel economy and performance buy a Opti Max. Even four strokes don't come close.
Best Performance and Economy? Maybe, especially in the performance dept. There's only so much you can thin a stream of injected fuel- newer outboards are almost exactly the same when it comes to economy. The compressed air is what gives the Optimax the performance and economy, but its also its downfall. Do a search on the net- the compressors seem to have a high failure rate. The only person I know personally that runs an Optimax has already had to replace the compressor in the 1st 2yrs of ownership.
Luckily, it seems that most of these failing compressors are failing within warranty.
-
I would tend to listen to anyone who makes a living using one of these engines. Overwhelmingly, the marine patrol, dock builders pushing barges and crabbers down here are running some variant of a 2 stroke; either Optimax or ETec. I personally know a marine patrol officer who runs an ETec and it spends lots of time in the shop for fuel related issues but he says the servicing dealer is a chump who maybe incorrectly servicing the engine. Thats one issue that needs to be addressed when selecting an outboard and that is who is your dealer? Are they established, educated and professional? If you plan on buying a bootleg in the box outboard from a distibutor 500 miles away to save $800 just make sure you have a local dealer that is capable of servicing it. That Ship Shape episode I referred to earlier were doing a valve lash adjustment on a V6 Yamaha 4S and it is not something you are going to do at home. The tappets are non adjustable and the valve train must be shimmed in order to get the correct lash adjustment using factory gages and procedures. I've assembled enough 2 and 4 stroke engines to know this is not for the average guy. The other thing to consider is E15 or greater is around the corner, there is no stopping it as the middle east continues simmer. Which engine manufacturer is working on a solution for the future? Right now your new engine warranty is void if you run it.
-
I would tend to listen to anyone who makes a living using one of these engines. Overwhelmingly, the marine patrol, dock builders pushing barges and crabbers down here are running some variant of a 2 stroke; either Optimax or ETec.]
the FWC patrol boats that get fuel from us all run 200 to 250 optimax's, the guys that ran them said they have optimax's on almost all boats that they run in this area.
i noticed friday when 6 Coast guard patrol boats (all 22 whaler's) came in at the same time for lunch, they all had 150 or 200 Evinrude Ficht's
the RIB's the CG have here are running honda 4s's
homeland security/border patrol are running 300 or 350 verado's and 250 optimax's
-
First off remember. All of those patrol boats, are bought by Gov. agency’s. Not by the people who run them. What do they care. What engines on the boat. They also do not have to repair them. So I will go with any motor that is affordable, gets good fuel economy and is the easiest for me to learn to repair. Since it would be me buying and repairing it. Just a thought. :thumright:
-
Mercury has a very nice direct-to-government (skip the marker upper dealer) sales program, which would explain seeing so many American-made Mercury outboards on boats operated by government/municipal agencies.
http://www.mercurygovsales.com/about/ (http://www.mercurygovsales.com/about/)
Bombardier has a program similar to Mercury's as well, but the details aren't posted on the net, simply a phone number. The Jap-builts don't have a program like this, but government agencies typically get discounts on outboards of their choice through dealers, though probably not as deep of a price cut.
My guess is this is similar in law enforcement on the road too - I see Chevy Impalas, Ford Mustangs, Ford Crown Victories, and the occasional Chevy Tahoe. Now everyone knows Ford is better than Chevy, so the government agencies are almost assuredly buying on price and delivery rather than which brand they deem is better. The theme is American-made (Canada is still America, right?)
-
Now everyone knows Ford is better than Chevy....
I was with you all the way there, 'till this blasphemy.... :lol:
-
Now everyone knows Ford is better than Chevy....
I was with you all the way there, 'till this blasphemy.... :lol:
:lol: :lol:
That was a joke for me and Aaron :wink:
-
Somehow...knew that... :wink: That's one discussion best-suited for a redneck bar on Saturday night...
And here's our waitress:
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_ek5O2C3F5aY/T ... poster.jpg (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_ek5O2C3F5aY/TN30Tc4XqoI/AAAAAAAAA68/V9x696Zblns/s1600/Jessica+simpson+daisy-duke+poster.jpg)
THAT'S trouble!
-
I may be wrong but I believe she's makin' a Mopar look good. :thumleft:
Found On the Road Dead
And my favorite...
F--ked On a Real Deal :mrgreen:
-
i may be out of line just jumping in on the forum, but wasnt that a dodge charger she was sitting on 69' if i remember right.
one of the best mad muscle cars ever made :cheers: :cheers:
-
:thumright:
Gonna tell u what...that "Dukes of Hazzard" sequel part III was fine cinematography.
:wink:
-
but wasnt that a dodge charger she was sitting on 69' if i remember right.
That's what I was referring to, hence Mopar.
"I may be wrong but I believe she's makin' a Mopar look good."
-
sorry about that capt.bob i had alil brain fart on the mopar deal. havent heard dodge called that in a long time.
-
Your right every 800-1000hrs the compressor will go on a opti-max, I have replaced so many that I know the sound to listen for 20-30hrs before it locks up. You can pretty much mark your calendar.
The key to getting the longest air pump/compressor life is having someone service it who knows how to clean the filter/screen for the compressor very few outboard mechanic's know its even there. This keeps the compressor cool. After putting more than 8000hrs on opti max's I have never blown a lower unit or a powerhead, only compressors and little crap breaks. They are about as bullet proof of a outboard thats made.
With your average boater only running a 100hrs a year that roughly 8 years of no major problems
Every 100-200hrs at least one fuel injector will go on a e-tech, and they are not cheap either.
I still would not buy a verado even though I'm a mercury man, the superchargers go out and the fuel economy is really not that great.
Capt Matt
-
I may be wrong but I believe she's makin' a Mopar look good. :thumleft:
Found On the Road Dead
And my favorite...
F--ked On a Real Deal :mrgreen:
seein how my f150 spends more time off pavement than it does on pavement, this one works for me:
Found
Off
Road
Dominating
:salut:
-
Update,,, picked up a set of yami's 150 HPDI. low hours (440) hours. Also changed the rub rail,dash,toggle switch's,fresh water,rewired moved batts to under console and changed ladder. Im very happy with the performance,its a whole new boat. i will add new pics soon. what a difference with twins. top speed so far 49 mph... At 3500 rpms im doing 25 mph and burning 13 gph. very happy... :cheers:
anyone with a ficht get rid of your headache,,,