Classic AquaSport
Aquasport Model Rebuilds, Mods, Updates and Refreshes => Generic Aquasport Rebuilding Topics => Topic started by: gran398 on January 24, 2011, 03:52:29 PM
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http://www.baysidemarineservices.com/gallery.asp (http://www.baysidemarineservices.com/gallery.asp)
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beautiful boats! :salut:
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Those boats are just as nice as anything you'll find brand new,but then again they are new :D
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Have been taking a closer look at Bayside's planning....notice on the first example how they mounted the tabs off the rear of the bait-boxes, either side...pretty shrewd.
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Scott i saw that,those bait wells must have really became part of the hull,i would love a ride to see how that works out,with the tabs there and the motor bracket it should ride like a larger boat.
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Tough to get to those baitwells. :scratch:
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Those boats are just as nice as anything you'll find brand new,but then again they are new :D
The pictures look a lot better than they do in person. I saw the green 240 in person and wasn't impressed for the money that went into it. There were lots of tell tale signs of a rebuild, not a factory boat. Still looked decent, a lot better than most rebuilds. But, still.... had a ways to go in my opinion.
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I agree fit and finish isn't the best. imho
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ball park price on a rebuilt like this would cost for a flatback minus motor and rigging
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Outsourced rebuild costs seem to be hard to get; almost as if everyone signs a non-disclosure after the job is complete. I can only surmise that the prices are so outragous that no one wants to admitt thet paid that much.
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I think the problem is that you never know how much work is going to be required until you actually hack one open. I've seen recently seen redone AS's for sale in the $40 - 50k range. I've talked with a couple of professional rebuilders (including Will Leslie at Bayside above) and they just cannot give you a solid number until they get into the boat. If you have someone do it for you, you are going to spend an amount comparable to buying a new boat. I think the only way to get a bargain boat is to do most of the work yourself.
Interestingly, Will Leslie at Bayside also makes a custom 23 footer under the Aeon brand (AeonMarine.com). Similar topside lines to an old 22-2, but a modern underbody. I don't know the price, but its a handsome boat.
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I'd personally avoid a Bayside rebuild...
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I ahve had pricing on a complete rebuild on my flatback range from 10k to 30k. again this is no power and not rigged.
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I would be perfectly fine with a new floor, open transom, hatches and in/out gelcoat for $10K. Basically, I want mine back to original new condition. I do all my own rigging and engine install anyway. I`ve got perfectly good engines, electronics, Ttop etc. I think alot of these rebuilds get loaded up on cost with dual station towers, full transoms, articulating jack plates and $15K new engines. This is why I am anxious to see Scotts rebuild and find out a number. He is not getting all the bells and whistles just a reconditioning of sorts with all new materials. I have seen a number of the Southwest Florida high end rebuilds on the market and see alot of asking numbers but never see the selling numbers. I love old Aquasports; but quite frankly have better things to do with $30K in this economy than sink it into a 35 year old boat.
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LilRichard,
Why avoid Bayside? Just curious...
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LilRichard,
Why avoid Bayside? Just curious...
Please take this conversation off-line.
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I guess I'm missing the point of an informational forum. :thumbdown: :thumbdown:
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Hang loose. The point being that what is discussed next affects the parties mentioned.
He's thinking of everyone here. Its all good.
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I guess I'm missing the point of an informational forum. :thumbdown: :thumbdown:
Our goal is to NOT become another THT where heresay is thrown around without concern to the damage and fallout that happens.
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Ok by me.
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i wanna know too, message me why, please thanks
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I guess I'm missing the point of an informational forum. :thumbdown: :thumbdown:
Our goal is to NOT become another THT where heresay is thrown around without concern to the damage and fallout that happens.
Well IMO we should also eliminate pages where folks are saying "so and so is great, I saw a boat rebuilt by them", because people do make decisions based on what they hear. I'm not bashing Bayside, I just stated I would avoid them, and that is not[/i] heresay.
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It's not defamation nor slander if the parties in the conversation are telling an experience dealing with the truth. If giving pros and cons of companies dealt with by members on this site is not permitted I think we should deleted the thread about the guy who had problems with that online motor company rebuilding his motor, my own post about the guy who screwed me and killed my rebuild attempt, as well as plenty others that have had sour dealings with companies. Sounds to me like there may be special interests dealing with this company. The people need information good and bad to make educated decisions, otherwise why have a forum?
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You guy's should go back and check the January 8, 2010 posts between RickK and Thennuts before we decide to censor dialog about bad business practices. The guy that originally worked on Thennuts boat deserved every bit of criticism he deserved and he had a nice respectable website with WORC people doing work for him. Lets not pull the reins back if someone has an issue with a "respectable" establishment. There are many ways to convey a point without being slanderous and irresponsible. Quite frankly, I thought Thennuts did an excellent job portraying the abortion that happened to him and probably saved others many $1000's of dollars and "we" were all OK with that!
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people do make decisions based on what they hear.
I totally agree but it still resides to the individual to make their own decision, hopefully based on proven experience. Therefore information needs to pass freely, with verifiable backup, all in a civil manner. I'm not very fond of censorship used to protect opinions. At this point, I don't believe anyone is trying to do that. Just trying to keep it real. 8)
That's why it's important to have a place you feel confident in visiting, to get the information you seek and not feel intimidated if you ask reasonable questions concerning same. Currently, the forum provides this type of atmosphere and it is IMHO necessary to retain this for creditability. I understand and support any effort to keep it so.
That stated, I approach every forum with eyes wide open and take posts with a grain of salt. I freely admit to nonsense posting on occasion in a lighthearted attempt to add a little humanity to the stark cyber-world a forum creates. I only try and use opinion/information that is supported by real world experience and avoid blather about anything without backup. In other words, I don't take many leaps of faith and prefer my knowledge sprinkled with a big dose of photos. If you got a raw deal somewhere down the line, then it should be posted with the intent to inform, not defame. Please support your findings. I personally see no reason why it would not be allowed. Again, just like real life, back up what you print.
There is a lot of good info on this forum, you just have to be able to find it. There is also (with any internet forum) a lot of "fluff" with little support other than personal opinion/hearsay. If you want to experience true supported opinions/ideas and solid information, then visit the Aqua Cafe forum. Read the threads fully and you will see pot fulls (pun intended) of real world experience and backup. The Rebuild forum boasts a fair amount of Photo evidence. Again, real world backup.
Learn to weed it out, hone your common sense and please, thicken your skin. I don't hate ya. Jeez, I don't even know ya. :?
So everyone, hike up your drawers and let's get back to work.
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Right now I have a 1984 222 being restored at Coast to Coast in New Port Richey and we are 2/3's of the way done (just purchased a 2010 200 etec new). As of now my experience has been great and price not bad either. Some day when I can figure out how to post pictures I will show everyone. My decision to restore instead on buy new was simple. Old boats are simply built better and a restored 222 will outlast and out preform any production line boat.
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flatback man
C/C reasonable priced to do the restore?
What exactly are you having done to it?
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Right now I have a 1984 222 being restored at Coast to Coast in New Port Richey and we are 2/3's of the way done (just purchased a 2010 200 etec new). As of now my experience has been great and price not bad either. Some day when I can figure out how to post pictures I will show everyone. My decision to restore instead on buy new was simple. Old boats are simply built better and a restored 222 will outlast and out preform any production line boat.
That's who made my sit on top livewell. He was also putting a tower on another member's Aqua.....that how found the Sanchez Bros top.
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I m going to hi-jack this thread for a moment - I apologize in advance.
It's not defamation nor slander if the parties in the conversation are telling an experience dealing with the truth. If giving pros and cons of companies dealt with by members on this site is not permitted I think we should deleted the thread about the guy who had problems with that online motor company rebuilding his motor, my own post about the guy who screwed me and killed my rebuild attempt, as well as plenty others that have had sour dealings with companies. Sounds to me like there may be special interests dealing with this company. The people need information good and bad to make educated decisions, otherwise why have a forum?
I certainly don't have any special interests with any of the vendors that are in the area OR are members here although I did meet Will for a few seconds at one of our gatherings. I have also heard a complaint about the company but that is all - I heard - no first hand experience with the business. We've witnessed the atrocity that thennutts went through and I agree that the company deserved what they got here.
What happens all too often is that someone throws out 3rd person info about some company and the experience that they heard about. It stirs great conversation on a forum and it gets deeper and deeper until death threats, arson, etc are placed against the company. What the reporter never knew about nor reported back to the riot is that the company bent over backwards to make things right and possibly did - you never hear that part. I was raised and I raised my kids to not gossip (not that it worked totally) and I think that is a good way to live.
If someone comes on here and documents it like we saw with thennutts, there is no refuting this. Hell hath no fury....
If someone is "reporting", that is a different story and one that needs to be taken offline.
You guy's should go back and check the January 8, 2010 posts between RickK and Thennuts before we decide to censor dialog about bad business practices. The guy that originally worked on Thennuts boat deserved every bit of criticism he deserved and he had a nice respectable website with WORC people doing work for him. Lets not pull the reins back if someone has an issue with a "respectable" establishment. There are many ways to convey a point without being slanderous and irresponsible. Quite frankly, I thought thennuts did an excellent job portraying the abortion that happened to him and probably saved others many $1000's of dollars and "we" were all OK with that!
Let's talk about this now - I think the connotation here is that I am pro business in any case and I take offense to this implication - I was not defending the business owner at all - in fact I was appalled just like everyone else with the workmanship, if you can call it that. I think my normal posture here is a neutral one. I needed to know the answers to the questions I asked and got the answers to them. If you think about what I asked it was a laundry list of things that must be done, or not done, when working with a business that is charging you big bucks and no one in their right mind would have admitted to any of the questions I asked, publicly at least - although I asked what others were thinking. I probably could have asked the questions in a different tone though. If I offended you, thennutts, I did not mean to and I am sorry.
Now the big question: Do you guys want a special forum that will allow a fully unregulated place to vent anything from "the guy didn't buff my truck out enough" to the abortion that thennutts experienced? I'm ok with this and will not admin the forum at all. Someone else will have to have the balls to moderate this one. Any volunteers?
Before you make a decision, think about this carefully and be careful with what you wish for. It won't take much for us to go from what we have to becoming just like a thousand other forums out there. Everyone has a choice if they want to be a member here or not based on the environment.
Oh, and of course I'd have to run this by the attorney that owns this place before it can happen.
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No RickK,
Keep the same posture and continue to be the conscience of this forum and please keep a tight drag on our tendencies to school up like Jack Crevelle on a pod of pogies. This is a special place with some really special people and nothing should ever compromise that. It is good to have this kind of dialog from time to time and be reeled in and reminded that we do differenciate ourselves from so many other snake pit forums because of our values...
Keep up the good work!
Fitz
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Fitz, agree 100%. Thank you friend.
Rick, hi-jack all you want. A boat has but one captain. It's not easy being a captain. So for starters....thank you.
The legal aspect was what was thinking of, and the reason for the "chill" post. Defamation, regardless of "truth" can be (and is) construed as defamation.....damaged character, damaged livelihood. What we print here is available to billions around the world. At that point, there is a case for libel. From anyone.
No need to go further. Been enough trauma around here this week. Not doubting what transpired, or what was stated. I believe what you say. But point being, the potential liability would be attributed to the poster, foregoing liability to the website.
Guys, we have a great forum. As Seabob says, best on the net. I feel that as well.
But the times we live in...when a company pays out tens of millions for coffee that was served hot...do we really want to go here?
Please take this post as it was sincerely intended.
Thanks all.
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I would be perfectly fine with a new floor, open transom, hatches and in/out gelcoat for $10K. Basically, I want mine back to original new condition. I do all my own rigging and engine install anyway. I`ve got perfectly good engines, electronics, Ttop etc. I think alot of these rebuilds get loaded up on cost with dual station towers, full transoms, articulating jack plates and $15K new engines. This is why I am anxious to see Scotts rebuild and find out a number. He is not getting all the bells and whistles just a reconditioning of sorts with all new materials. I have seen a number of the Southwest Florida high end rebuilds on the market and see alot of asking numbers but never see the selling numbers. I love old Aquasports; but quite frankly have better things to do with $30K in this economy than sink it into a 35 year old boat.
Unfortunately the cost to do that work correctly is very labor intensive. After gel coating my boat I wouldn't even consider doing a paint/gel job for less than $4000 for the exterior(labor only). My boat was in good shape also, there was no bottom paint, no barnacles, not much damage at all for almost 40 year old boat. Then your interior..... $2-4K.... transom....$2k.... hatches....etc. By the time you add it up, its easy to see how a shop will charge $20k-30k for a rebuild. I'm not just making up numbers off the top of my head, I spray a ton of finishes on lots of different materials and the prep work that goes into these old boats is crazy. Its not a matter of gelcoat or paint either, both will have close to the same amount of prep. Im guessing thats why I see lots of inferior finishes on some of the rebuilds.
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Slippery,
Thanks, good points. You're right, a paint job is in the prep. As a younger guy, one of my buddies had a pretty good sized body shop, I'd go help him at nights just for fun and beer. Everyone in town said they were the best. They were also pricey. But they did beautiful work.
And when you go to car shows, look at the awesome work there, directly related to labor/skill.
The rebuilder has been discussing this very topic. He recommended a guy here in town that has a sandblaster on wheels, kind of like you would see a pressure washer on wheels. He can set it up for soda blasting. Chris's idea is to blast off not only the bottom paint, but the hull sides as well. The soda supposedly works quite a bit softer than sand, more control. Guess the idea is the soda can do 80% of the prep?
Lewis, this is something you have knowledge in, any thread-steal :D here is appreciated.
Slippery feel your labor estimates are spot-on. In my case, no interior finish refurb to consider. Only thing have right now is a fiberglass shell.
:roll:
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Gran
I had my interior and removed cap sandblasted before I started the rebuild and was thrilled at the amount of labor it saved and how well it came out. The fiberglass comes out looking like new and it removes stuff you could just never get with a grinder.
In the next few weeks I will be rolling her over and having the same guy sandblast the outside too. The Sandman as his company is called has the most high tech sandblasting equipment I have ever seen and comes to you. The machine can be dialled in so exactly it only removes what you want taken off. He charges $300 to come out. This time I have a friend who has a stripped 24 proline and needs his services too so we will split the cost.
Matt
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Matt,
AWESOME report! This thing might have a silver lining after all. Thanks :thumright:
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Slippery,
Thanks, good points. You're right, a paint job is in the prep. As a younger guy, one of my buddies had a pretty good sized body shop, I'd go help him at nights just for fun and beer. Everyone in town said they were the best. They were also pricey. But they did beautiful work.
And when you go to car shows, look at the awesome work there, directly related to labor/skill.
The rebuilder has been discussing this very topic. He recommended a guy here in town that has a sandblaster on wheels, kind of like you would see a pressure washer on wheels. He can set it up for soda blasting. Chris's idea is to blast off not only the bottom paint, but the hull sides as well. The soda supposedly works quite a bit softer than sand, more control. Guess the idea is the soda can do 80% of the prep?
Lewis, this is something you have knowledge in, any thread-steal :D here is appreciated.
Slippery feel your labor estimates are spot-on. In my case, no interior finish refurb to consider. Only thing have right now is a fiberglass shell.
:roll:
Problem I had with the prep was.....as I sanded out the very light gelcoat crazing it opened up tiny pinholes from where the first layer of chop mat wasn't completely bonded to the gelcoat as it was applied in the mold. The more I sanded, the more pinholes appeared. I don't think media blasting would make any difference vs sanding in my case. Maybe my boat was worse than others, but It was a real pita to remedy. Spraying gelcoat to fill the pinholes proved fruitless, it just pooled up around the holes, to much surface tension in the gelcoat to fill them. I ended up having to roll gelcoat on the hull to fill all holes, then basically sand all of that back off so it just left the tiny holes filled. Then I could commence with topcoat. Fillers proved useless also, the holes were to small to fill, I would have had to really thin the filler out and do a super light skim coat on hull for that to work, that would have been way more work than sanding off the gelcoat scratch coat.
Thats the other problem I have with the shops out there, I know there is no way that they would have gone through all that work to do it correctly. They would have just sprayed over the crazed gelcoat and it would have reappeared somewhere down the road.
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Right now I have a 1984 222 being restored at Coast to Coast in New Port Richey and we are 2/3's of the way done (just purchased a 2010 200 etec new). As of now my experience has been great and price not bad either. Some day when I can figure out how to post pictures I will show everyone. My decision to restore instead on buy new was simple. Old boats are simply built better and a restored 222 will outlast and out preform any production line boat.
Havent seen any of the boats these guys have done, but the shop I work for (well, I physically made) some custom starboard items for a few of the 'Avenger' brand boats they were producing. They switched over to a company called Blue Seas I believe, because they did work much cheaper, and it LOOKED much cheaper. Not bashing anyone for saving a buck, but you would think a company doing rebuilds/building boats, would want top of the line products going in their boats and strict attention to detail.