Classic AquaSport
Aquasport Mechanicals - things that need a wrench, screwdriver or multimeter => Plumbing => Topic started by: wingtime on November 02, 2010, 06:09:44 PM
-
OK with the addition of a live well and a large friend to my boat I found my scuppers were letting water in on the decks. This coupled with two rectangular hatches in my splash well that leak into the bilge resulted in my bilge pump getting a workout in the Gulf on Sunday. Besides rigging the live well to hold less water, I believe some sorta scuppers are in order. Rabud and TH marine make ball scuppers that look like they will solve the problem. I like the idea that the TH marine units can be easily removed to clean them out. Does anyone have anything good or bad to say about these? I heard that they can be noisy as the ball rattles around. I found these duckbill units: http://www.wholesalemarine.com/pc/T-H-D ... upper.html (http://www.wholesalemarine.com/pc/T-H-DBS-2B-DP/330001/Drain+Plugs/Duckbill+Overboard+Drain+Scupper.html) They look good to me but I wonder how well they drain. Does anyone have any idea or experience in this area?
Thanks!
-
The duck bill ones are a pain. They only work if you have just water going through them. Any speck of trash (fishscales, leaves,you name it) get stuck in them and hold them open so it kind of defeats the purpose. The pingpong ball ones work well.
-
Agree wit d above. Go with the ping-pong ball type. :thumleft:
But get some 4200UV or 5200 and re-caulk those seams in the spashwell! You will be amazed how much water comes in if you don't keep the spashwell tight. The bilge pump really should not work very much. You need to chase down the source if it runs often - don't rely on the pump to keep the boat afloat - they are not flawless... :oops:
See ya on the water!
-
i got pingpong ball ones on my boat and they are awesome
-
I have ping-pong scuppers and I'm happy with them. I would have water on my aft deck constantly without them.
I guess they could be noisy- I don't know because mine are always underwater :roll: Seems like they would be noisy if your waterline is right at the scuppers.
They do have a few downsides - they get clogged sometimes, but not as easily as the duckbill style, and the casing seems to break easily. One of mine broke and I'm not even sure why- replaced it with a drain plug. On the plus side, they're cheap.
-
Well Ball scuppers have the majority vote! So ball scuppers it is! I just have to decide on which brand now :roll:
Thanks for all the quick replies!
But get some 4200UV or 5200 and re-caulk those seams in the spashwell! You will be amazed how much water comes in if you don't keep the spashwell tight. The bilge pump really should not work very much. You need to chase down the source if it runs often - don't rely on the pump to keep the boat afloat - they are not flawless... :oops:
Yeah that thought crossed my mind when I saw what was going on. If my pump crapped out I would be in big trouble. The leaks in my splash well is the 7" x 11" Rabud hatches that are in there. A PO had installed them and did a real bad hack job of it. The hatches were old and nasty so I bought the same type as a replacements. Bad idea. I had to refill all the holes and redrill them anyways so I should have gotten the Offshore versions. The ones I have now you can see right through the hinge area into the bilge. :shock: So they have to go too.
-
Agree wit d above. Go with the ping-pong ball type. :thumleft:
But get some 4200UV or 5200 and re-caulk those seams in the spashwell! You will be amazed how much water comes in if you don't keep the spashwell tight. The bilge pump really should not work very much. You need to chase down the source if it runs often - don't rely on the pump to keep the boat afloat - they are not flawless... :oops:
See ya on the water!
Good points....an addendum here based on experience. You'll see pumps cycle on-off when offshore, especially when jumping on plane. Always note the duration, and frequency. If its more than ten or twenty seconds every thirty minutes, time for some sleuthing. Nothing wrong with a slight plumbing drip to the bilge, but stick your head down there with a good flashlight (always onboard) if things don't seem right.
Also be aware that twigs/flotsam etc. can hang-up the float-switch, even the "protected" ones. Two things can occur in general: The float stays up (hung-up) in a torrential rain/heavy incursion, continues to run the pump(s) when the bilge drains dry... but because the switch keeps running, kills the batts. (All bilge float switches are wired hot straight from the batts.) Next downpour/incursion occurs, no juice, (batts dead) and the hull fills, boat sinks. Have seen it happen.
Second scenario, float switch is hung from above, or, corrosion knocks out the connections. Either way, float switch disabled. Float disabled/pump disabled. Boys, ALWAYS REMEMBER that Murphy's Law rules on the high seas, but at the dock too. Take it from there.
Always run cable (vinyl wrapped double wire) as a bilge pump/float switch connection. Always keep the connections as high as possible and forward tight to the underside of the deck, but still accessible in an emergency. Use shrink or melted butt-splice, or both.
Either scenario, KEEP THE BILGE CLEAN.
I'm heavy on safety, hope that's OK.
Be safe, tight lines, come home safely.
-
Always run cable (vinyl wrapped double wire) as a bilge pump/float switch connection. Always keep the connections as high as possible and forward tight to the underside of the deck, but still accessible in an emergency. Use shrink or melted butt-splice, or both.
Either scenario, KEEP THE BILGE CLEAN.
I'm heavy on safety, hope that's OK.
I have to agree with Gran on this point, and to add to this, keep plenty of fuses on board for the bilge pump circuits (if you don't have it fused, you really really should). If debris gets in the pump, it will blow the fuse easily. No fuse, no pump. As far as the wiring, I used heat shrink butt splices, coated in 5200, then wrapped in even more heat shrink and secured above the floor of the bilge.
One thing I do after I use the boat (especially in saltwater), I rinse the bilge and the pumps well with fresh water, and spray them down with WD40. Even so, you can take excellent care of your bilge pumps, and they will still go out. They seem to be some of the most unreliable things I've ever used - most likely because of the environment they operate in. I check mine as soon as I get the boat in the water.
-
Jessie, that fresh water rinse is a super idea. After you flush the engine, pop the plate, rinse the pumps....
Good 'un.
-
From what I have seen over the years, it's not the pumps that crap out, but the float switches. Here's a couple of pics of the one I just removed from a '92 Hydra-Sports, the original pump. First, it's location, which was a joke, as you not see it, feel it, nor service it with the baitwell module in place...
(http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh301/seabob4/Proline%20website%20pics/Hydrasports%2021WA/HS21WABilge008.jpg)
After removing and cleaning, the damn thing worked! 18 years later! Lots of corrosion in the wire and the motor windings, owner is getting a new one (same model, Rule 1500). But the float (Rule-a-matic) had long ago bit the dust...
Sorry, only one pic, thought I had taken one of the cleaned up pump...
BTW, this is what that same area looks like now...
(http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh301/seabob4/Proline%20website%20pics/Hydrasports%2021WA/HS21WABilge032.jpg)
-
Murphy is always hiding somewhere. My buddy nearly sank his Grady last weekend. Thirty miles out and he noticed the boat's response was really sluggish. Checked the bilge and water was up even with the deck. That pesky dribble from his livewell plumbing he had been procrastinating fixing had become a flood. The 1100 gph pump was pumping straight into the bilge. Murphy, being the johnny-on-the-spot he is, took this opportunity to burn out the three month old bilge pump. If he had not had a cheap West Marine hand pump on board no telling what would have happened. It only took two hours to pump the water down with the hand pump. I have been after him for five years to put in a second pump and hi water alarm. Maybe now he will. I know I'm not going out with him until he does.
People, Murphy is always riding with you. Just when you think you outsmarted him is when he will grab you by the throat.
(http://www.decathlon.co.uk/products-pictures/gd-asset_1804300.jpg)
-
FOR SALE! 18 YEAR OLD RULE 1500 WITH BLACKENED LEADS/BLACKENED MOTOR WINDINGS. RUNS LIKE A TOP! MAKE OFFER!!!
(http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh301/seabob4/Proline%20website%20pics/Hydrasports%2021WA/HS21WABilge021.jpg)
-
I've never had the bilge pump come on while out on the Aquasport before. I don't trust the float switch either so I just turn on the pump now and then to see if any water is down there. When I saw the water in the splash well and the pump came on I started to run some scenarios through my head. The thought of the bilge pump failing came to mind. I do have a hand pump but that would mean opening up the hatches in the splash well which would not be good with water in the well! :roll: So I would have to either dump the live well or move it forward to get the scuppers higher up. Then open the hatches to the bilge. Since my live well pump is on a removable transom bracket I could stick it in the bilge to pump it out. Second option is the hand pump. Third option was haul butt for the nearest beach! LOL
Either way I didn't like the situation and some changes are in order. Some replacement Offshore hatches and Ball type scuppers should do the trick.
-
Those ball scupper work great, I couldn't be happier with them. i got a set of Seachoice ball scuppers from Cost Plus Marine. There located in Madeira beach. Its a small place but crams in tons of products and great prices.
-
Those ball scupper work great, I couldn't be happier with them. i got a set of Seachoice ball scuppers from Cost Plus Marine. There located in Madeira beach. Its a small place but crams in tons of products and great prices.
Scott, from what I hear, they do a pretty good job, even on wire and cable prices. Mahoney's at 50th and Adamo in Tampa is where I get my stuff locally. WM (the one in Holiday) is about useless. I needed 2 5A push-button breakers to finish a switch panel, $4.29 ea. at sailboatowners.com (Defender is out of stock). WMs price? $12.49 ea!!! I'll order and wait, thank you very effin' much!
-
These Murphy stories sometimes work out....sometimes not. About 28 years ago four guys left out of Masonboro grouper fishing. They were in a 21 foot Chris Craft Scorpion, cuddy model, 235 Evinrude. I know some of you remember them.
Actually a good running boat. No if any flotation. They're anchored up thirty miles offshore, not a nice day. Late fall, water cooling down...mid sixties if had to guess. All four are in the stern bottom fishing. Wave crashes over the stern. Bilge pump fails to come on, auto or manual. Captain opens the inspection plate....all are back there trying to help.
Another wave crashes over...bilge fills, another wave, etc.
Boat sinks like a rock, never even got a Mayday off. Coast Guard found one by helicopter the next day, hanging on the fishbox. The only reason they speculated he survived was that he was extremely obese, and his insulation saved him.
Glad you guys are all safety conscious, and believe in systems redundancy. BTW, always ran 2 VHF's on my offshore boats, and two antennas.
-
Glad you guys are all safety conscious, and believe in systems redundancy. BTW, always ran 2 VHF's on my offshore boats, and two antennas.
Umm, aaahh, umm, What bilge pump??? My boat didn't come with one, nor access to one. I do have 1 switch on my boat for the running lights, but that doesn't work. And did you say something about a VHF Radio? ahh yea, umm yea how about a cell phone. haahha Guess I need to jump on this safety conscious band waggon :shock:
Dam what a Smart Ass :twisted:
-
Skoot-
I can walk you through a bilge pump setup on your rig if you'd like. I'd drive myself crazy with worry without them.
-
I can walk you through a bilge pump setup on your rig if you'd like. I'd drive myself crazy with worry without them.
That would be great. I know I need one and I already ran the wires when I replaced my tank. I also have a round access hatch just waiting for an install, after that I'll take you up on the bilge setup.
I'll tell you guys what though. Every time I get back to the ramp I take the plug out and there is Never any water in the bilge.
-
Yeah mines usually pretty dry too. But- you never know if you might hit something hard enough to start taking on water. I know it's cliche' but, Better Safe Than Sorry :lol:
I have some pics in my photobucket of the bilge setup.
-
They were in a 21 foot Chris Craft Scorpion, cuddy model, 235 Evinrude. I know some of you remember them.
That was the boat I had for 7 years before selling and buying the Osprey, Awesome cuddy, it had about the same hull as the wellcraft step V, big bow flare, mine orignially came with a gil bracket and 175 Yammie, my friend that I bought it from put a full width stern bracket on it, and a new 96' 225 Yamaha. That boat never let me down once, the bilge was easy to get to because it had the full lift up hatch in the rear of the cockpit where the doghouse would normally sit.
-
Those ball scupper work great, I couldn't be happier with them. i got a set of Seachoice ball scuppers from Cost Plus Marine. There located in Madeira beach. Its a small place but crams in tons of products and great prices.
Yeah I think I know the place. Is that the guy that is in the bright yellow building? I bought some stuff from him before. Your right he has some great stuff crammed in a small place at good prices. BTW Scoot where did you catch the greenies near Johns Pass? Haven't fished out of there before and I thought I would give it a try.
-
FP, one of my buddies had one way back when....I know you remember, they ran GREAT in a following sea. Fast and dry, too. If he still has it, make sure he addresses the floation issue, if he hasn't already.
Skoot, little story to relate. Many years ago I was running my old Simmons WOT in one of the bays behind Figure Eight. They had been doing some dredging back there, and were moving the sand thru pipes to the beach for beach renourishment. The way it was usually set up, most of the dredge pipe sections were on floats across the water, with one section fully submerged anchored to the bottom to allow for maritime passage.
Well guess what? Several of the sections closest to the sunk ones had come off their floats, and were floating slightly beneath the water. And, it was late afternoon, the sun was in my eyes. And maybe I had drank half a beer, and maybe I didn't inhale....anyway, WHAM....
I hit the damn thing so hard the ol' V4 Johnnirude slammed up through the well, completely busting it open. It was a wooden boat, but had it been glass, probably would've breached it.
And for sure, everyone knows folks who have struck old submerged dock pilings, etc.
Hey, bid on that honey-pie SB just posted.... :lol:
-
So maligned but so cheap.
(http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff108/r-berlin/imagedrainplug.jpg)
-
Yep thats the place bright yellow building with truck to match. I think he's only open M-F, maybe half day on Saturday. As for green backs I cast the edge of the flats between the South island and the center Island. There is an unmarked channel that runs between them and on the backsides (east) of the island have some nice grass flats. There was also lots of bait just off the beach
-
Maybe it's the Sarasota Bay way, but one good throw under the overhanging Mangrove branches can net you a pretty good catch of greenbacks, white bait, and pinfish...and an occasional baby snook!
-
Hey Wingtime,
Be sure & post some pics when your done, OK.
-
Well I called Rabud today and they said I have the wrong hatches installed in my boat. I should have the offshore ones.. so I ordered up a set. Then I motored on down to Cost Plus Marine after work and made it there 15 minutes before he closed. I was overwhelmed by all the stock he has in there and 15 minutes was not even close to take it all in. I looked at the Seachoice ball scuppers and they look good. I want to get a look that the TH marine Flow-max scuppers before I buy a set since they can be opened up for cleaning. I'll be sure to post pics of the mods.
-
I ended up buying Rabud offshore hatches and Flo-max ball scuppers
As promised here are the pics of the hatch replacement and ball scuppers....
Leaky hatch notice the hinges... the water just pour through the hinges:
(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j196/wingtime/Aquasport/IMG_20101106_135358.jpg)
I was lucky the hatch popped off the 5200..... getting the 5200 off the deck took a while though!
(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j196/wingtime/Aquasport/IMG_20101106_142805.jpg)
It looked like the PO cut the openings in the deck with a chain saw... So I had to buld up the edges so the new hatches would fit:
(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j196/wingtime/Aquasport/IMG_20101113_115614.jpg)
Installed offshore hatches:
(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j196/wingtime/Aquasport/IMG_20101113_191219.jpg)
(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j196/wingtime/Aquasport/IMG_20101113_191228.jpg)
Flow-max ball scupper: Notice the little screw on the left side of the scupper. If you want to clean the scupper just unscrew that screw 1/2 way and give the scupper a 1/4 turn. It pops right off the base for easy cleaning without unbeding the base and mounting screws. Cool!
(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j196/wingtime/Aquasport/IMG_20101114_111533.jpg)
I filled up the splash well with water with a hose while holding the ball scuppers closed. When I let the scuppers open they drained quickly with no apparent flow restriction. Next I popped open the hatches to see how much water leaked into the bilge. To my surprise not a single drop of water leaked!
-
:thumleft:
-
Good job! :cheers:
BTW - I always take a handheld VHF in addition to the boat-mounted radio - very handy and you never know...
-
Good job! :cheers:
BTW - I always take a handheld VHF in addition to the boat-mounted radio - very handy and you never know...
Good point. After seeing what happened to these guys that sounds like just one more level of safety.
http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafe ... re/1134102 (http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/after-18-hours-in-gulf-missing-fishermen-brought-ashore/1134102)
-
Good job! :cheers:
BTW - I always take a handheld VHF in addition to the boat-mounted radio - very handy and you never know...
Good point. After seeing what happened to these guys that sounds like just one more level of safety.
http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafe ... re/1134102 (http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/after-18-hours-in-gulf-missing-fishermen-brought-ashore/1134102)
Same exact scenario. And those guys were professionals/retired professionals. Thanks WT.
-
I guess my last post on this subject went to the "lost pile" last week :roll:
I took the boat out weekend before last and really ran it through the ringer so to speak. I went 16 miles offshore in seas that in retrospect were way too big to go out that far in let alone to be comfortable fishing in. I would say they were 3-4 foot rollers. The ball scuppers worked GREAT. Despite the rough conditions the decks stayed nice and dry. The only water in the splash well was that annoying 1/2" that doesn't drain out all the way. We took a few small waves over the transom and I watched the scuppers open up and let the water drain right out.
Later in the day we were drift fishing when my line got snagged. My buddy backed the boat into following seas... needless to say we took a few over the stern that put a inch or so of water on the deck... I turned on the bilge pump to be safe and nothing... the water self bailed in short order and we headed in. When I pulled the drain plug only a couple of drops of water came out. So my new deck hatches don't leak either!
I have to say I was really impressed with how the boat handled the day... we went over 43 miles that day some of it in pretty rough water and we were really pounding the heck out of the old girl.. The ride was nice and dry except for the occasional wind driven spray. The boat sounded nice and solid with no rattles.... not bad for a 29 year old boat.... They really knew how to build them back in the day!
-
Good deal - it's great when you make a plan and it works! :salut:
-
It's nice to see a properly equipped boat do her job...and not complain about it. And no, your thread was not lost...just side-tracked a little bit...