Classic AquaSport
Aquasport Mechanicals - things that need a wrench, screwdriver or multimeter => Engines & engine woes => Topic started by: The Rodfather on July 13, 2010, 10:37:36 PM
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My trim is stuck. When i try to pick it up it always stops about quarter way up. "BOOM" It sounds like it slams into something but i see nothing in the way. i just got the boat (1986 aquasport osprey 200) and need to fix a few things on it. This is the next thing on my list. Its got a Mercury 150 Mariner slapped on it. if someone could help that would be great. Im also going to be asking for some help in other areas of my renovation. the boat has been sitting for about six years. by other areas, i mean . . . . soft spot on floor, leaning post(build or buy), console :salut: :salut: remodel, live-well function, glass refinish / paint. thanks.
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welcome rf!some pics would help.your trim could be low on fluid
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Welcome aboard Rod :!: :!:
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Hey thanks for replying. i will have some pics up soon. . . . about the low fluid level idea, wouldnt i need to have the pistons all the way extended to check/fill the fluid? that means i would need the trim to be up. wheres my shotgun
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Try loosening the manual release screw in the lower portion of the transom bracket(I think on the right hand side) and see if you can pull the engine up by hand. Usually about two turns out. How does the trim motor sound when it stops? Does it begin to bog down or free wheel and pick up speed. Do you have a single piston or 3 piston system? If you can raise the motor by hand with the manual release valve open then tilt it up all the way and engage the trailering support arm and check the fluid. Fill it if it is low with power steering fluid or ATF, close the valve and try trimming it up and down.
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it has a three piston setup. well, i trimmed it up til it stopped, and it makes a slamming sound, and the motor begins to sound like its struggling to try and get up past that point. the motor sounds fine going up, and very much slower on the way down. while trimmed up to that annoying stopping point, i cracked the valve a couple turns, and the motor falls a tiny bit. so then i push it the rest of the way down...it is very hard to push, and no fluid comes out of the valve...even after the sixth or so try. should fluid be coming out? and when the valve is cracked, even while all the way down, i can not lift the motor at all manually. THANKS.
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Hey Rodfather,
No fluid should come out; it is only an internal bleed valve that bybasses a check valve. I`m beginning to think it may be your tilt bushings are frozen up from corrosion. try pumping some grease into the zirk fiiting in the middle of the tilt tube. That lubricates the tilt tube bushings. If it wont take grease you are going to have to heat up the tube near the bushings on each side and try to pump grease into it. Use a propane torch to do the heating. Sometimes, salt will get between the bracket casting and the bushing and squeeze the bushing tighter against the tilt tube and try to lock it up. Get the fuel line out of the way when you do this.
You should be able to move the engine up and down with the release screw open even if something is wrong with the tilt system unless it is full of water.
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hey fitz, thanks for helping. i got a big project on my hands. im not too farmiliar with boat construction and overall function, but im excited to learn and the boat will be sweet when im done. i greased it yesterday, but im not too sure if it was taking though. should i change the zirk? shouldn't it splooge out the sides if it takes well? friday i will heat it up. ya i cant budge the motor up with my bare hands. no, im not being a wimp. :cyclops:
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I was already suspecting the tilt tubes/bushings. Now I'm convinced.
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Good morning Rodfather,
I want to make sure we are heading down the right path here. When the "boom" occurs is it at the end of the trim ram limit? In other words, when the two smaller trim rams have fully extended is that where the boom occurs? Or is it in the middle of the trim or tilt range?
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I'm wondering what Fitz asking about too. Does the problem start where the tilt cylinder is supposed to take over from the trim cylinders?
Oh and a stuck tilt/steering tube SUCKS. I had that happen to my Force. The grease hardened up like glue. I had to heat it with a propane torch to soften the old grease to free it up.
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i think the two trim pistons are maxed out when it stops tilting. so maybe the center big hydraulic is stuck.... should i try to heat that up? im going to unbolt the two little pistons to see if i can move it then.
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If you heat the hydraulic cylinders you will ruin the seals.
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NO HEAT! Make sure that there is nothing mechanical that is binding this up. Try having a second person run the trim up while you lift up on the gearcase. Back out that trim release screw and try again to raise the engine without running the trim system. It may take two people to lift the engine up. Get access to the fluid reservoir screw with the engine up on the trailer lock lever and check the fluid level and cleaniless.
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I got the trim up!!!! i guess i was being a wimp. we cracked the valve on the side and it took two of us to pick it up. so it is up. . . yay! i took off the cap and i see no oil, how high should i fill the resevoir?
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Fill it to the bottom edge of threads of the screw hole! Use power trim fluid or power steering fluid. I would use automatic transmission fluid as a last resort since it is not true hydraulic fluid. You will have to run the trim up and down several times and keep checking the fluid until all the air bleeds out. The fluid will look foamy or full of suspended bubbles. The pump will cavitate and make noise until all the air is purged. Next will be to understand why there was no fluid in it to begin with. Glad you are making progress!!!
Fitz
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I believe Mercury calls for ATF. At least mine does.
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well, the resevior didnt take much fluid at all. maybe a tablespoon or two. im beginning to think the motor is weak. whats the proper way to bleed the system now that i can tilt all the way up? the motor comes up fairly easily with a little help from my hands when the trim button is being pressed. the banging noise was the two little pistons maxing out im sure, and when it is time for the main piston to work on its own, it seems like something prevents that from happening. the motor kind of starts to squeal and sound like it begins to struggle at that point. but again, if i assist it with my hands, it comes up very easily. . . like as if the two little pistons were still acvtive. so now im down to . . . . does it need to be bled, or. . . do i need a new trim motor? THANKS. You Guys Rule
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The system is self bleeding internally. Do you have the manual release screw tightened back up when you are raising and lowering the system. It still sounds like air is in the system. Your battery and connections need to be checked. A power trim system uses alot of amps to go up and down. A weak battery or bad connections can also add to the weakness of the system. You should have a fully charged battery that shows at least 12.6 - 12.8 volts on a volt meter and clean, tight connections.
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good info Fitz.
You will not get all of the air out of the system until you can run it all the way up and down several times.
I went through this with a friend last year on a used boat he bought without even cranking the motors. Older twin Yamaha 130s. The port motor would not go all the way up. It would not come back down unless I added my 185 lb. to the skeg. We worked 4 hours helping it up then forcing it back down. Then hitting it with a grease gun again. We never did get that motor 100% free. Now and then it will hesitate on the way down, then fall a couple of inches with a clunk. His issue has nothing to do with the hydraulics. He refuses to change out the tilt tube.
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Is there some sort of a valve that switches over the hydraulics to the tilt cylinder when the trim cylinders are maxed out? or does the fluid just flow from them into the tilt cylinder?
The tilt tube is not that big of a deal to change out but you need a hoist to hold up the motor while you do it. Also does your motor have a stainless tilt tube? If not you can get them for about $100 new.
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It's been 35+ years since I was trained in hydraulics and most of that gray matter has leaked out now.
No physical switch over. The twin trim rams have more lifting force than the single tilt ram. Pressure is applied to all three but the trim rams actually make the motor move up thru their range. Once they bottom out the only place for the hydraulic fluid to go is the tilt ram. Trim rams need more force because they have to push against the propeller force if you trim while running. Dual rams also move slower because it takes twice the fluid volume to move them. This gives you a finer control.
My son has an older Honda 45 4-stroke on his Mitzi Skiff. That motor only has a single tilt ram and no trim rams. It's a real PITA to adjust trim while running because it moves too fast.