Classic AquaSport
Aquasport Mechanicals - things that need a wrench, screwdriver or multimeter => Engines & engine woes => Topic started by: cdoyal on July 10, 2010, 10:24:41 PM
-
My trim/tilt motor bit the dust this spring so when the mechanic replaced it ($1300) :( , I also had him replace the plugs, fuel filter, fuel line bulb, and Raycor filter. I mentioned to him that it was a tough start when cold and he said the primer cover was cracked and it was spraying fuel all over. He replaced it and it seemed to help a bit. But today, it still took 5-10 minutes to get it started after not running for three weeks or so. Anyway, once I got it started, it ran fine except every once in awhile it gave an extremely brief hiccup both at idle and 1/4 throttle or so. Probably did it three times over a total of an hour and a half total running time. It's never done that before and it makes me nervous. Is this anything to be worried about? It only lasted a second or less but still...
Thanks for any help!
Chris
-
Can't help on the hiccup, but the hard starting ,my 97 200 has done that since day one when it sits awhile,and I've had it since new,i always thought the fuel in the line was going bad because once you seem to get past that it runs fine,i always start mine on the hose the day before and run it for 5-10 minutes if it's sat awhile and that seems to do it,plus less back pressure from not being in the water helps to start it to.
-
every johnny'rude i know of is cold nature. i always run mine on the hose right before i head to the ramp. less time at the dock trying to start it and less chance of batteries going dead at the dock from cranking. also saves everyone the frustration at a busy ramp if the boat wont start.
-
The '93 225 Oceanrunner I had was hard to start when it had not been run in a few days no matter how hot or cold it was outside. The rest of the day it would be fine.
-
Guys-
Can't thank you all enough for your responses. I don't feel alone now! I'll try starting at home first. That will save the anxiety of will it/won't it at the ramp.
As far as the hiccup, it ran fine all day today without a stutter.
Just out of curiosity, do you guys use muffs or just hook the hose to the pee valve?
-
I always used muffs just because it's easier to hook up.
-
muffs
-
Well, I've been trying the 8-second push lately and it seems to help. I started up today on the second turn of the key.
However, a new "issue" popped up today. I was doing a lot of idleing and the check engine horn started going off. Had plenty of oil and a good pee stream. When I opened her up, the light went off. It went this way all day. Any thoughts?
-
The check engine light will come on if fuel flow is restricted,i have a fuel shut off valve and if it's off the engine will run off the fuel in the line but the light will come on,thats when i go oops and switch it on.
-
The check engine light will come on if fuel flow is restricted,i have a fuel shut off valve and if it's off the engine will run off the fuel in the line but the light will come on,thats when i go oops and switch it on.
A guy on my boat thought it might be something like that. But I've never touched the switch and it goes out at WOT. I noticed a bit of blue smoke at idle (not at start up) and wondered if I might be burning more oil than normal.
-
I read the manual (what a concept!) and it stated that a check engine light on my motor means a fuel restriction. I read up on primer bulbs and think I have way too much fuel line between the motor and the bulb - at least 20". The bulb and a bunch of fuel line just lay in the bottom of the motor well. My theory is the fuel pump sucks enough at high speed but can't at low speed with all that excess line. Sound plausible? With the arrow pointing up on the bulb, it primes nice and hard but won't when it lays on its side.
-
Read through this link, http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/VRO.html (http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/VRO.html) before I had to get rid of the 97 Ocean Runner because it was beyond "economical repair", I did a lot of research on the VRO system, my decision was to rebuild with it, or without it. This article seems fairly written and dispels quite a few of the rumors of VRO. I have a VRO system on my family's pontoon boat, and it works great. you may find some of the reading related to your particular issue? Good luck
Marc
-
Here is $.02 from a Mercury guy who had the same issue. My 60 Bigfoot on my flats boat had a constant problem with running out of fuel at idle. I replaced everything from the fuel tank back, still had the issue. I took this engine off my other flats boat and installed a brand new water seperater on this boat when I changed over to the current hull. One day when i was replacing the element, I read in the instructions about the fuel line barb should match the ID of the fuel line. I had 1/4" ID barbs with a 3/8" ID fuel line. I replaced the barbs on the water seperater to 3/8 ID and never had the problem again. So I guess that the fuel line ID being larger than the barb ID would allow the fuel to collapse in the line from not enough volume through the 1/4" barb. I could not believe this was the solution. I dealt with this for years! This was only an idle problem and anything above idle was fine. check your fuel line ID to the water seperater fuel barb ID and make sure they match. This is not the barb OD but the ID.
-
This is all good info and I appreciate it but why would a fuel restriction just start now? Nothing's changed as far as parts on the boat. I've got plenty of hours on the boat since the primer bulb, Raycor, and fuel filter were changed this past spring.
-
I would almost guarantee it's not to much fuel line,I'm gonna dig out the shop manual in the morning and see what i can come up with.
-
Till then what condition is the fuel line in from the primer bulb to the fuel pump on the motor,and also from the bronze fitting in the splash well to the bulb.
-
I would almost guarantee it's not to much fuel line,I'm gonna dig out the shop manual in the morning and see what i can come up with.
That would be great. I have a Seloc manual which is worthless most of the time.
-
I would almost guarantee it's not to much fuel line,I'm gonna dig out the shop manual in the morning and see what i can come up with.
I agree. I don't have my manuals any longer but I think all it mentioned was the allowable vaccum reading.
I had at least 36" of quality fuel line on my 225 Oceanrunner between the motor and bulb. I never had a fuel issue. (I mostly wished it had a restriction for all of the gas it sucked.)
My CCP had a 32 gal. aux. tank in front of the console. That made for a hecuva long fuel line.
-
With the arrow pointing up on the bulb, it primes nice and hard but won't when it lays on its side.
That indicates there is something wrong with the bulb's check valve. It would be very easy for a check valve to restrict flow especially at low flow rates. The fuel flow has to overcome a spring in the check valve. If it's a steel spring in the check valve ethanol will rust it in short order. Replace that bulb with an OEM bulb. I don't know what brand bulb your mechanic installed but the 3rd party brands are junk.
-
With the arrow pointing up on the bulb, it primes nice and hard but won't when it lays on its side.
That indicates there is something wrong with the bulb's check valve. It would be very easy for a check valve to restrict flow especially at low flow rates. The fuel flow has to overcome a spring in the check valve. If it's a steel spring in the check valve ethanol will rust it in short order. Replace that bulb with an OEM bulb. I don't know what brand bulb your mechanic installed but the 3rd party brands are junk.
From what i came up with from the manual i would have to agree,there just isn't a whole lot besides that, that would restrict the flow,and from personal experience i have replaced more primer bulbs on mine over the years then i could possibly remember,and fuel line too,but my boat has got a lot of sun over the years and if the hose or bulb looks sketchy at all i replace it,very easy to do.
-
I would change the Racor element too. You said you have a lot of hours on it since spring when the filter was changed. It would be easy for one fill-up of bad gas to clog the Racor.
Another handy tip I just thought of. While you are replacing the bulb, re-plumb the fuel line so that the bulb is between the Racor and the fuel tank. It makes a world of difference re-priming the system after changing the filter element. Bulbs push gasoline through the filter much easier than they can suck through the filter.
-
From what i came up with from the manual i would have to agree,there just isn't a whole lot besides that, that would restrict the flow,and from personal experience i have replaced more primer bulbs on mine over the years then i could possibly remember,and fuel line too,but my boat has got a lot of sun over the years and if the hose or bulb looks sketchy at all i replace it,very easy to do.
I'll replace it with an OMC one this weekend.
I'm also going to pull the fuel pickup and see if there's an obstruction. If there is, it's a small one because I've noticed no loss in performance.
I would change the Racor element too. You said you have a lot of hours on it since spring when the filter was changed. It would be easy for one fill-up of bad gas to clog the Racor.
Another handy tip I just thought of. While you are replacing the bulb, re-plumb the fuel line so that the bulb is between the Racor and the fuel tank. It makes a world of difference re-priming the system after changing the filter element. Bulbs push gasoline through the filter much easier than they can suck through the filter.
Not a lot of hours. Ony 20 or so.
-
OMC (BRP) still has the best bulbs!!! :cheers: :cheers:
-
From what I have read and heard primer bulbs should always be pumped with the arrow up. Also they should installed to they hang with the arrow up. If you pump it on it's side or with the arrow down gravity keeps the check balls from seating properly since both of them move towards the motor to open. Try pumping one with the arrow down and it will NEVER firm up all the way.
Read more about it here-----> http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/primer.html (http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/primer.html)
-
From what I have read and heard primer bulbs should always be pumped with the arrow up. Also they should installed to they hang with the arrow up. If you pump it on it's side or with the arrow down gravity keeps the check balls from seating properly since both of them move towards the motor to open. Try pumping one with the arrow down and it will NEVER firm up all the way.
Read more about it here-----> http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/primer.html (http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/primer.html)
That's a great article!
-
If you are going to pull the fuel pickup check the anti-siphon valve (if it has one). They can cause a restriction as well if a piece of trash get's in them.
This little sliver of red plastic in the anti-siphon valve (from a gas can???) choked my little 60 Yamaha down. A rusty spring in the anti-siphon valve will also cause a restriction.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v53/Johnny_B/BackCountry/anti-siphon.jpg)
-
If you are going to pull the fuel pickup check the anti-siphon valve (if it has one). They can cause a restriction as well if a piece of trash get's in them.
This little sliver of red plastic in the anti-siphon valve (from a gas can???) choked my little 60 Yamaha down. A rusty spring in the anti-siphon valve will also cause a restriction.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v53/Johnny_B/BackCountry/anti-siphon.jpg)
Thanks, John. You're the best. :cheers:
-
I try. Mostly just sharing my past headaches to maybe save someone else from them.
;)
-
Not a outboard mechanic but here is my input. Generally if you get a sneezing when the engine is warming up I think they call that a lean pop or something like that. A lean condition is caused by not enough fuel or an air leak somewhere in the system. I had a similar problem with an engine and found out it was pulling air around the fuel filter gasket. Very strange but changed the filter (oiled gasket) and problem solved. since you had some parts changed on the fuel system you might just want to snug down all the clamps and fittings you never know where air might be getting into the system but I would guess somewhere in front of the VRO pump since it is setting off the fuel alarm. that is all I got for now if I think of something else I will let you know.
Good Luck and let us know.
-
Well, since there are no performance issues, I ordered a new vacuum switch today. I unplugged the old one and the light went out.
It's a hundred dollar gamble but what the hell...
-
Well, since there are no performance issues, I ordered a new vacuum switch today. I unplugged the old one and the light went out.
It's a hundred dollar gamble but what the hell...
Turns out it was a faulty switch. Popped the new one in, light went out, and all is well. Ran it for a couple hours yesterday and everything is back to normal.
-
I'm a little late to the party, but my '98 Johnson 200 Ocean Pro shows the same symptoms with a cold start. I have also started the habit of starting the motor at home with the hose/muffs! Makes for a much lower stress launch at the boat ramp. Of course i still get a few looks when my puff of blue smoke wafts across the dock :lol:
Once warmed up, this motor has never given me a bit of trouble, but some days it takes a few minutes to get her fired up. :scratch: Is that just common with Johnny-Rudes?
-
My '93 225 was that way. Lots of cranking when cold but always started. Instant fire the rest of the day.
-
Once warmed up, this motor has never given me a bit of trouble, but some days it takes a few minutes to get her fired up. :scratch: Is that just common with Johnny-Rudes?
I think it is. They are just a bit cold blooded that way.
Mine also blows blue smoke at idle even when warmed up!