Classic AquaSport
Aquasport Mechanicals - things that need a wrench, screwdriver or multimeter => Electrical => Topic started by: Double Trouble on January 24, 2010, 11:28:40 AM
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I am considering changing my group 24 starting battery that run my generator to a group 27 dual purpose and running my exterior lights and raw water washdown/live well that I am going to seperate (put in seperate pumps) so I dont have to worry about running down my engine batteries.Given the factory setup I have its the only way I can think of doing this without ripping out the whole system and starting from scratch.I can change to a 3 bank charger and use the generator to charge the third battery while out fishing as I dont think my 2000 rudes have large enough capacity.Does this sound reasonable or is there a better way.All help will be greatly appreciated. OH forgot I have a 2000 275 explorer.
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Only problem I see is if the battery gets so low you can't start the genny.
Here's an idea: Put in the 3 bank charger and wire it to an a/b switch so that you can switch the input to the charger between wall AC and Gen AC. When switched to the genny side the genny will power the charger and then all the batteries will get charged at the same time. How to wire it safely is a different story - have to think about that for a bit. Some of our brainiacs here may figure it out quickly.
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My 2 bank charger is already hooked up that way am going to change to 3 bank so that all batteries will charge generator and AC power.
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Ok - The way I read it, the genny only charged the gen starting battery - sorry for the confusion.
So how is it wired? Ac is a different beast then DC.
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The existing charger is factory installed from AC side of main breaker panel in the cabin. I can turn it on and off from a dedicated breaker so I wont have to do anything on that end the work will be splitting the DC switches on the console.I am still thinking about that. I probably will do all new switches.
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Most boats with generators use 2 batteries - one for boat loads and the other for starting the generator and main(s). A 4D or 8D is nice for boat loads and a 27 or 31 for starting works well. You can get by with a 27 or 31 for boat loads if you don't have much drain or use them for an extended period. The starting battery normally stays isolated from boat loads to keep that battery from being discharged, but you should have a A-B-Both switch just in case. Same for the other battery. The charging system should charge both batteries whenever either main or the generator is running. You can use a battery isolator, relay, or battery maintainer/manager to keep the batteries separate under loads, yet allow both to charge off one input source when an engine is running. Check the Internet an you will find lot of wiring options on how to do this.
Good luck, see ya on the water!
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So, let's see what we have here. (2) group 24s as the engine starting batts. Combinable through (2) off/1/both/2 switches. (1) group 24 to start the genset, on it's own off/on switch. Can't be paralleled with either engine start batt, correct?
Now, what you want to do is replace the group 24 for your genset with a group 27 deep cycle, and run certain house loads off it. Now, to do that, you have to run another feed forward and segregate your distribution at the switch panel between the genset batt and the house batt, which is also one of your engine starting batts.
So why don't we do this. Put all your house loads on the genset batt. Beats having to pull a new 6GA forward and redo you switch panel. Next, replace your on/off genset batt switch with a on/1/both/2 switch. BEP makes nice small ones that will do the trick. Tie that into your port batt switch, the port batt being "batt 2". Next, install a batt isolator between the port batt and the genset batt. Charges while underway, yet isolates when no charging source is present. This way you can shut your motors down, run your house loads off the genset batt, and if you draw it down far enough, you can parallel the port batt to start the genset.
And by all means install a 3-bank charger...
Hope I got that right... :shock:
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I new you would come up with a better way and I like it. My two starting batteries I already changed out to Deka group 27 dual purpose.I will probably start this in the spring I may need some help with the wiring of the batteries. Thanks for your help.
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DT,
Shame you have to wait until spring...82 degrees here this afternoon! Of course, we have a cold front coming through, so it will be in the 60s tomorrow...brrrrrrr! 8)
Bob C
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Actually I have been working on the boat since I dry docked it in November for the winter I have it shrink wrapped so its not bad with a little heater inside.I worked high rise construction in New York for 37 years so a little cold dont bother me much. Started putting a list of material together for this project.I have a 15 ft. run X2 from my battery switches in the transum to my generator battery do you #2 AWG wire is good for that run.
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2GA will be fine. Those little gensets don't take much to crank over...
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Bob can I use this switch I just need to figure out how to wire it.
714-100A - Single Engine, Two Battery Banks
The 714-100A uses our dual sensing VSR (710-125A-DS). A welcome addition to the 701 selector switch it ensures you will always have a fully charged reserve battery.
I cant get the link to work,this one is made by BEP Thanks again for your help.
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Mod Edit: 18 Dec. 2015
BEP no longer makes the 100A. This thread has been updated for the current 140A switch. Application is the same.
DT,
Here's the link:
http://www.bepmarine.com/en/714-140a-dvsr
We use BEP's switch/VSR clusters, including triple engine/4-Bank clusters with their motorized switches, where the switches are controlled by toggles on the helm.
The systems work excellently, and Ross Pratt, the P in BEP, is a good friend of mine, so I always have a good contact... <!-- s:D -->:D<!-- s:D -->
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"so I always have a good contact..."
Seabob is switching on a little humor there! :D Positively the right thing to do, you don't want to get con-fused. :roll: OK, I'll stop, but I could go on, I've got a battery of these things... :twisted:
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Hey DT,
I was looking at your pics. What is the coating you used on your "non-skid" areas. Looks great and appears to be another thing I need to do before spring. How labor intensive is it?
Thanks,
Reeldrag
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I used Interlux perfection the color is platinum. I did it in sections took some time to do because it was done while the boat was in the water in between fishing trips actual hours about 15 most of that was prep work. If you use it, down load all the info from their site and follow it closely.The finish is excellent,
I painted right over the factory non skid,they have a dulling agent if you dont want the gloss finish.Applied with a 1/8 inch foam roller make sure it is recommended for use with two part urathane paint.The part that took the longest was taping everything off.One tip only mix what you can use in about half an hour and try to paint in the shade.If I can be of any more help let me know.Oh and thanks for the compliment.
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I am getting a headache trying to figure out how to wire this setup we discussed.I guess I should stick to woodworking,anyway I know I am asking a lot but would you be able to post a simple sketch of how I can wire it.Thanks again, If you dont have the time I understand.
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So let's see how this works...
DT, when running, switch the genset batt to "both". This will allow the port motor to charge the genset batt. When you shut down, switch the genset batt to "1". In fact, you may not need the isolator. Anyway, house loads and genset starting are on batt 1 of the genset switch, if you run down that batt, switch over to "both", and that will parallel the port batt with the genset batt.
I forgot to say, when starting, starboard batt switch is on 1, port batt switch on 2.
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Bob thanks so much. Hope I can return the favor someday.I like the idea of the isolator I plan on using the one by BEP #714-100A has the dual sensing VSR built in with the switch.Thanks again. OH! as long as you are having another I will have one with you CHEERS!!!!
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Bob I want to clarify two more things. 1.The neg. cable from the new house/gen battery should run to the neg. buss with the other 2 batteries and another off the house/gen. battery to the generator,is this correct. 2.My 2 bank charger is only a year old so I was thinking of buying a single bank charger for the house/gen. battery could that create any kind of problems.
Thanks again
DT
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In the first case about tying the grounds together, yes that's correct, as well as wiring the ground to the connection point on the genset.
Adding a second, single-bank charger won't hurt a thing. You can even wire it to the breaker on the AC/DC panel and turn them both on with a flip of the switch... :thumleft: