Classic AquaSport
Aquasport Model Rebuilds, Mods, Updates and Refreshes => Osprey Style Hull Rebuilds => 22-2 Rebuilds => Topic started by: shortpants on July 13, 2009, 07:36:31 PM
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73 222.
(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m124/tailhuntr/73aqua/100_0231.jpg)
(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m124/tailhuntr/73aqua/100_0233.jpg)
(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m124/tailhuntr/100_0232.jpg)
I am taking suggestions for power h/p. I'm thinking 175 Suzuki or maybe even a 225 ETEC. What's the rule of thumb, for every 25 hp you gain......2 mph?
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I would go with the 225 etec, I have a 200 evinrude with 225 carbs on it and it gets up on plane quick
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What is the use of the boat? Will it have a bracket? I only ask because all older AS's are weight sensitive in the rear, and many will not self bail with a big honkin' motor on the back.
I would also ask Mike Answeeny, he just rebuilt one with a 175, and he's very happy. I don't think that boat needs anything more than that...
BTW, where are you located?
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I plan on using marine ply for the transom and putting a porta-bracket on. I will be starting tear down this weekend to see how the stringers look, hopefully. Strong possibility that even if they don't look so bad that I may replace the two stringer system into maybe a four stringer system to keep some of the hull twist down if I put some decent power on it. I will definately let the boat's personality dictate as this project progresses. I was originally going to put a tower on it but will wait after I use it for a bit to even see if I like the way it rides before spending the money on it. I know that not having a tower does play into the power issue again as the weight won't be as heavy. I did see a Dorado hull/boat recently on the water powered with a 300hp Mercury. Wow! I really don't think I will go any higher then a 250 and probably will go with a 225. We'll see :wink:
Richard, I will be using it for a little of this and a little of that. A lot of inshore fishing but wanting to make runs a little off-shore when inshore sucks. I am thinking about keeping the same center console but narrowing it some and also making it taller. I definately think the higher consoles look better and like Willer55'a that he got from a Pathfinder boat on his looks awesome! Where did you eventually get your console from after abandoning your first console?
I am very excited about doing this and I wish I could say the same for my girlfriend who looks at me when I talk about it with a very strange expression. :scratch: :shaking:
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Shortpants, Good Luck! I am in the same situation. Just decided to rebuild my 19-1. BTW my wife has no idea what I am about to start. She didn't complain when she came home to a large green Quonset hut (Shelterlogic garage) in the driveway. Wait until the real destruction begins. Should be a lot of fun. Keep the posts coming.
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Couple of thoughts: you do NOT need a 250 on that boat, a 225 would still be really big. These boats are very weight sensitive, especially when brackets are added. I think I stated it earlier, but Mike Answeeny has this exact hull with a 175 and he's running into the mid 40s with his boat.
Second, if the stringers are good, leave them. If you can repair them, even better. If not, rebuild - but I would stick with a 2 stringer setup. Boat is not wide enough to justify four stringers - it would be severe overkill.
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I am thinking about keeping the same center console but narrowing it some and also making it taller. I definately think the higher consoles look better and like Willer55'a that he got from a Pathfinder boat on his looks awesome! Where did you eventually get your console from after abandoning your first console?
I agree completely. The more I look at the original consoles, the wider and stubbier they look to me. I was forced to replace mine w/ one out of a 93' Polar after I "lost" the original cause that's what I had, but I'm really happy with it now. The higher windshield and steering wheel is very nice, plus there's no gaping hole at the bottom near the floor, so all of your electronics and what-not stay a lot drier. Since the 19-6 is really a short 22-2, here's kind of an idea of what it would look like:
(http://i587.photobucket.com/albums/ss320/MarshMallowe196/100_0589.jpg)
(http://i587.photobucket.com/albums/ss320/MarshMallowe196/100_0585.jpg)
(http://i587.photobucket.com/albums/ss320/MarshMallowe196/100_0590.jpg)
(http://i587.photobucket.com/albums/ss320/MarshMallowe196/100_0591.jpg)
(http://i587.photobucket.com/albums/ss320/MarshMallowe196/100_0588.jpg)
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Where did you eventually get your console from after abandoning your first console?
Sorry - forgot to answer: got it from Gause.
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Coming in a little late SP but that's the classic "banana boat" :thumright:
BA and I don't always agree but he's right on about the console.
It would look good in your craft. :wink:
The 175 should be all you need.
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I am leaning more towards a 225 hp Suzuki but again, will wait and see. The four stringer system was put in a friends boats and his boat runs well. He used nidacore for stringers and is holding up well.
Again, as soon as I get the floor off this weekend will take a look and see what the stringers look like and make a decision then. I am not in concrete with any of this and will be open to suggestions as the rebuild goes along. So, keep the comments coming!
Will post pics. if I get on it this weekend and show the stringers.
I forgot to mention that I am definately raising the floor about 2".
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Well, didn't get any decking pulled up. Got all of the hardware removed when that little storm passed through yesterday. Next weekend! However, I did find lots of rot on the cap which is normal. Was hoping that did not need to be recored.
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I am leaning more towards a 225 hp Suzuki but again, will wait and see. The four stringer system was put in a friends boats and his boat runs well. He used nidacore for stringers and is holding up well.
You can build four stringers if you'd prefer, sure it will hold up well - I'm just saying it's a lot more effort for no return.
Do you really think you need a 225? How fast do you want to go? The 225 weighs in at 580lbs, whereas a 175 is 475/485 - that's an extra 100 lbs out on a bracket... or like having one extra guy standing in the back all the time. Plus I think a 175 will push that boat about 45 - so unless you're trying for 50+mph... then it's really overkill.
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I have to agree with Little Richard-
That 225 is going to present many more cons than pros
45mph is PLENTY. I'm slap happy going 40mph. The fish aren't that fast!!!
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Got the deck off today. The stringers were wet and even separating from the hull. I plan on cutting them up and either putting new ones in or refoaming the old ones. Not sure yet....
It was hot as hell out there today and thought I was going to pass out with the heat. Took me 5 hours to cut the deck up and finally called it quits with only some foam left to pull out. I plan on tearing down the transom next week. Will rebuild that first then pull out the stringers one at a time. Will take a few pics and throw them up this week.
any opinions between poured transoms and marine ply? I want to use ply but am open to switching to a poured transom.......
(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m124/tailhuntr/100_0237.jpg)
(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m124/tailhuntr/100_0238.jpg)
(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m124/tailhuntr/100_0236.jpg)
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If the stringers are in reasonably good shape I would definitely try to re-attach them and put new foam in them. Re-stringing a boat is no fun, and those stringers should be plenty strong.
Re: your transom, I would check out the pourables for sure - I have heard very good things about them. However wood is great too - that's what I used.
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I ripped the transom off down to the skin this weekend except I didn't grind it down yet. I found a crack in the transom and all the wood was wet. Doesn't matter since I am replacing it. Also found several more places where the stringers have separated from the hull. Still unsure on what I am going to do with the stringers and will make the decision after putting the transom in. I am going with marine grade ply in the transom. Will post some new pics when I start the transom.
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Transom is going in this week. I'm using marine ply after giving consideration to a couple of other choices. I feel the original marine ply in the transom was good enough to last this long so went with it again. I will post pics later.
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(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m124/tailhuntr/73aqua/100_0274.jpg)
The other side came out great. The reason it looks so white is because the gel coat sanding threw the dust all over the place. I did take a pic. of the other side but didn't come out for some reason. I will take another and post that.
Next step is the stringers. Look like were going to form a new box to mold the new stringers from and replace them so that they can be raised 2".
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One stringer was pulled out today. There was wood under the stringer that was rotted out. Not sure why there was wood so good thing pulled it out to replace and just did'nt refoam.
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You're gettin' there. :wink:
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We made a new mold to make some box stringers. Formed one and set it in the hull getting ready to glass it in. Will put some bulkheads in using the same form after the second stringer gets put in.
I am curious on another issue. What is everyones thoughts about raising the deck up. The stringers we've made are 2" taller then the original ones. I'm looking at the new one inside the hull and second guessing myself about it.
(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m124/tailhuntr/965e9006d9d71.jpg)
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Stringers look really good! :thumright:
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:thumleft:
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2" taller stingers would be great I think. I wish I would have done that to mine. If I have more than 2 guys fishing off of the stern I will have water in my boat. 2" higher would have fixed that.
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Put the second stringer in today and glassed them both down to the hull. Going to put some bulkheads in next along with keel stringer. Either going to use some of the same as the stringer molds or might just use some Nidacore and glass that over. Not sure yet... :scratch: When those are complete, will foam in the stringers and move on to putting the tank in. Slowly coming together.
I am looking for a center console. Any suggestions? I like what LilRichard put in his or still thinking about narrowing the original one and raising it up a little.
(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m124/tailhuntr/73aqua/482f62b0568d.jpg)
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Check out the gause consoles. I think web site is
gbfiberglassparts.com
he said his console was based on the as console - but he narrowed
twice. Looks like a good console though- a little pricey- I found a
32" wide console for my 222 rebuild on craigslist
oliver Barratt
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Things are finally coming along. Due to all of the colder weather was unable to work on the boat. This past week since the weather was a little better managed to work on the bulkheads and getting ready to put the tank(65 gal) in and complete the rigging tubing. Instead of using the same mold for the outside bulkheads we used nidacore and glassed over that. Doesn't look so bad and I think it will work out fine!! It is getting to the point where I now have to seriously start looking at purchasing the center console and other rigging. Does anyone have a line on some good prices for morse controls, helm and portabracket? Ouch!!!
On another note, I may have the possibility to be able to purchase a Yamaha F225, new, for the same price as the Suzuki 175 I was thinking about getting. Actually, even a little cheaper. My issue with it is that it weighs 100 lbs more. How much will that effect performance? I like the idea though of that extra HP. Any opinions?
(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m124/tailhuntr/73aqua/stringers.jpg)
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With your sole 2" higher you should still have a self bailing deck. However, I have a 225 on my 22-2. It's a whole lot more poweer than it needs. I generally run at 2/3 throttle for cruising. I would go for the 175. The hull will sit more level, and need less draft to get on plane.
MD :wink:
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Got the false floor in for the false tank and as you can see by the picture we didn't put a drain hole in it so right now looks like a live well with the water in it minus the bait. The area behind that is for the "real" livewell rigging. Also, got the rigging tube ran, only using one at this point, and getting ready to weld up the tank and drop it in and then foam it. We decided to move the gas tank fill back towards the tank and cut out a portion of the stringer to allow for that.
I am still looking for a center console to throw in it and thought I had one picked out from GBFiberglass.com. However, it's 39" wide which after some further thought have decided to wide. I want to find one between 28-33" to allow for more room on the sides.
Brings me to my question, is there a set distance the center console should be placed forward from the transom? We are kind of thinking maybe about 100". If the length of it is around 31" and then placing a cooler in front of that there may be about 6" or so left next the front deck step. Running out of room........suggestions??
I am hoping to have this on the water by June or July, August at the latest. I am still having trouble deciding on power. Spoke with JD at Dorado who suggested a e-tec 200HO. We talked when I called trying to find a center console. Got a few prices from local dealers and have definately decided against the Yamaha as mentioned earlier..maybe if their new SHO motor was in a 25" shaft that would make the difference..
(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m124/tailhuntr/73aqua/9b479717a6a6__1265988363000-1.jpg)
(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m124/tailhuntr/73aqua/falsefloor.jpg)
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Looks really nice.
What are you going to use the "false" tank area for? Got a little confused on this part :scratch:
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Oops, so much for proof reading. I meant fuel tank not false tank.
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LOOKING GOOD!
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We did re-core the cap last week using nidacore. Core looks good but we did not roll the glass around the edge and I noticed the other day that in some spots it's splitting. Will go back and fix that.
Shorts
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I wouldnt give up, if you can help it. If you sell now you have nothing, if you finish you have a marketable boat. The hardest part of rebuilding them is not giving up because it does take time.
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I am not giving up hope am only only discouraged on amount of time taking to work on getting it completed. I wish I hadn't sold my flats boat a few months ago. Just want to be on the water for the summer.
Shorts
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Is scott charging you to much to get it done? Im surprised its this far along!
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Scott did the work on my 69 flatback and was great to work with. This work was completed exactly when he said it would be and you can't beat the price and quality.
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Well Im glad you had good luck!
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Been watching your discussion with interest. Glad you got your money's worth with Scott.
You've a great job so far with this one. i know how it is to be discouraged. Things move much slower than you anticipate.
But look at the big picture, forget the season coming on. If you cashed out now, where would you be?
Been a bunch that have thrown in the towel, and some had to. But what's 1500 bucks or so nowadays?
It's a bad weekend somewhere.
If you've had enough for a while, not a problem. Throw a tight cover on her, and pick it back up this fall.
Things are picking up. That boat will be worth a helluve lot more in 3 months, six months, etc.
JMHO, hang tight.
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things always look good in the end!
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Thanks for all the encouragement! Gran, a little more then $1500 at this point but it's not about the money, it's just about wanting to be on the water.
I am going to try to speed things up by dropping another deck in with the front casting deck. A friend of mine has a boat that has been sitting in his back yard that hit a piling a few years back. The liner is in pretty good shape and the boxes up front are all there. So, might just pull that out and drop it in mine. I know my sole has been lifted 2 1/2" and dropping in another one will make the casting deck higher. Just another thought on how I might approach it and get it completed.
in the meantime, I have been looking for used boats that might get me through the summer.
Shorts
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Crown is on the cap and might be getting the tank welded up this week if all goes well. As soon as I can snap a pic of the crown I will download it. Also, the anchor locker has also been glassed into the cap.
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Here are a few more pics. I am looking for a center console now and some hatches. The rigging tubing is going to be moved more to the center in between the knees when they get put in. This was one of those afterthoughts since I've decided not to fully enclose the back. Moving it more towards the center makes it easier to just build a box to hide the rigging. Also, have decided not to use the liner that was in the boat because it needed to much work plus with the sole up 2 1/2 inches made it hard to fit. The tank is about 66 gallons filled to the rim. Getting closer!
(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m124/tailhuntr/9498244484e8__1274807365000.jpg)
(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m124/tailhuntr/81daba68886e__1274807319000.jpg)
(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m124/tailhuntr/bf3bcb1a55c9__1274451815000.jpg)
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is the tank going in the floor or on top of the floor. I would love to get that large of a tank in my 22-2. I know a local guide that has a sea craft console for sale.
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:)
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Have just read this thread twice start to finish.
Nice careful rebuild with good input from the board.
A couple of things that I took from the discussion:
The original stringers do contain some plywood internally, as did mine. Most likely used as a stiffener originally when the foam was placed. When you go to re-foam....dig it all out, especially the wood.
Secondly, the discussion with regard to raising the floor height....at the expense of lowering freeboard. This discussion will be around 'till heck freezes over.
And then the correct power for a 22-2...with bracket. Another discussion which will continue forward.
Shortpants...good job. Your comments on Classifieds were why I reviewed this. Think the decision you are making regarding completion makes sense...and for this reason.
Most folks aren't capable/inclined to see the big picture. They see what's in front of them. You can take a Lamborghini prepped for paint...nothing special to most. But throw on five coats of red, four coats of clear...all of a sudden, it's oooh-ahhhh time. And the spray is the cheapest, least time-consuming part of the job.
Again SP...NICE work.
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Been watching this build. Looking good so far.
I just finished a rebuild on a 24 Proline Flat back. This is my input on powering your boat.
I have a 175 Suzuki mounted on a Porta Bracket with 21" offset and the optional swim platforms.
This is how the boat performs after having her out a few times.
3000 rpms = 20 knts
4000 rpm = 30 knts
5000 rpm = 40 knts
This is with out having the motor all trimmed out.
I have not run it above 5000 rpms
With 4 adults and a full load of gear she jumps on plane with the slight touch of the throttle.
I have a 15x 21 stainless Solas prop.
I have to agree with some of the other guys. You dont need big power to run these type of hulls. The hull design is only going to allow for so much speed anyway. Its not all about engine size.
(http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a294/thespyderman/2011-06-16_09-10-07_784.jpg)
(http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a294/thespyderman/Boatproject-1.jpg)
(http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a294/thespyderman/boatpicsforinsurance.jpg)
I noticed you are looking for a console. This is what I used. I got it from Marine Connection Liquidators in Ft. Peirce. Cost was 450.00
(http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a294/thespyderman/Boatproject2-1.jpg)
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Thanks guys! Unfortunately most individuals when they start undertaking a restore of this nature don't realize not only the stress of going through it trying to figure out what is best for each individual hull but also the cost of undertaking such a project. I am going to buy a 55 gallon tank of resin this week at a cost of $1000. Wow!!!! That will give me enough hopefully to finish up the deck and some other things with it. I am going to finish glassing++ the stringers, actually bulkheads, with some more glass to the hull and also in ther corners of the transom to increase intergrity. Then, foam in the stringers. When I did rip them out there was some plywood at the bottom of the originaly stringers but was only at the back. Did not go all they way forward. That was found along with some Old Milwaukee beer cans inside of them.
I am looking for some decent hatch molds for both the front deck hatches and bilge area. Anyone have any decent molds or know of any place I can pick some up at a decent price? Am not looking to use the plastic hatches. This may help speed up the process as we won't have to make our own.
Since I have trashed my old liner can someone give me the height of the front deck and also the measurement from the transom to where the deck begins?
I, wife, have picked out a few colors for the hull and a mojority of them are in the light blue spectrum.
Oh, what are everyones feelings about once the tank is set and foamed in about covering it with a piece of nidacore and then glassing that over, angling it for water to run off? I guess putting it in it own capsle. Trying to keep water intrusion to a minimal. I have seen it both ways in some rebuilds. Over kill?
I hoping to have some more pics up within the next month or so.
SP
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If Scott hasn't already contacted you; we've got your hatches. New replacement exact replicas, with original non skid pattern if you prefer, foamed with Divincell. Fishbox and the two smaller hatches available. Mine are due for completion by Labor day. I sent my hatches from my 73 22-2 to Scotts builder in NC to pop the molds off of them. So you do or dont have your original casting deck? I can give you all the measurements you need; I'm still original. Scott and me have been working through lots of details on his 73' 22-2 rebuild. So we will be glad to share our thoughts. Whats your hull number? We're both November (D) 73' hulls; I'm #421 he is #428, so they may have held hands in the lamination building!
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Fritz,
That would be great!!!! Which pattern or style hatches? AS if I remember correctly had at least 3 front deck style hatches. I do not have the casting deck also. That would be an added bonus and cut my rebuild time down a week or so having to form those out. Not sure foam or Divinicell, putting 3/4 divincell down.
SP
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SP,
Gonna go ahead and respond, since today is Fitz's birthday, and he is out enjoying the evening. Happy Birthday Fitz :thumright:
These hatches fit the casting deck of any 70's 22-2. One long, two short. You will need the original casting deck to utilize these hatches.
See Thermal's latest pics of his upside-down casting deck. Our hatches fit this deck.
Bayside in Tampa sells a casting deck to fit a 22-2, around 2K. Not a duplicate, will not accept the factory 22-2 hatches. But seems to be a nice unit.
My casting deck, like Thermal's, is out and loose now, will re-install in about a month. If you want, can take a mold from my part. The hatches are a given, done deal. They have lips per the original for a tight fit.
Another alternative would be to go by Hammerhead or Bayside (Tampa, Fl.) and dig around for an original deck. They do exist...but won't see them advertised.
Then can use our original hatches.
If you want to keep her classic...we'll do our best. And sure would be neat to keep these parts for posterity.
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My hull #D423. I am going to have to try and find a casting deck somewhere as mine was hacked up by an over anxious, heat exhausted (100 deg. that day) me.
I noticed most of my pics have changed so will post these.
(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m124/tailhuntr/new%20pictures%20of%2073%20aqua%20interior/73-222Aquasport007.jpg)
(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m124/tailhuntr/new%20pictures%20of%2073%20aqua%20interior/73-222Aquasport006.jpg)
(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m124/tailhuntr/new%20pictures%20of%2073%20aqua%20interior/73-222Aquasport005.jpg)
SP
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That's amazing; what was it about 11/73! Almost 40 years later, these hulls were in the plant at the same time. Find that bow deck if you can! Its $2K for a new one from Bayside as Scott mentioned. Not sure what it would cost to build a new one from scratch.
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Picked this up for my boat, 07 Ameritrail trailer. Is set-up for a Shearwater 22 originally with the flat bunks. Will modify later.
(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m124/tailhuntr/new%20pictures%20of%2073%20aqua%20interior/trailer.jpg)
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Unbelievable...2 hulls behind yours.
Maybe we should sell them as a set of three to a sheik in Bahrain :lol:
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Unbelievable...2 hulls behind yours.
Maybe we should sell them as a set of three to a sheik in Bahrain :lol:
I faintly recall reading about some ancient Arab legend that stated that it was unholy to purchase a camel from a southpaw. :scratch:
Good luck lefty. :wink:
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Thanks bro.
Being left-handed does have its advantages. Especially when it comes to selling three boats built three days apart in 1973 to a sheik in Bahrain for his three sons: Ahmad Aquahomma, Abdulla Bomamma, and the youngest son by the Italian mother, sheik Classico Sporticus El Shariff.
Nice folks. We met in Monaco.
They're willing to pay top Dinar too :thumright:
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Thanks for the numbers Capt. Steve! Great looking boat you have there! I've got a 1976 22-2 in process and the 175 Zuke is my motor of choice. I expect its performance on a 22-2 will be very similar to what you get on your Proline. Do you have any fuel efficiency stats? How big of a fuel tank did you install?
Charlie
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Thanks for the numbers Capt. Steve! Great looking boat you have there! I've got a 1976 22-2 in process and the 175 Zuke is my motor of choice. I expect its performance on a 22-2 will be very similar to what you get on your Proline. Do you have any fuel efficiency stats? How big of a fuel tank did you install?
Charlie
No fuel stats as of yet but from what I can tell so far its going to be good. I installed a 47 gallon tank. I am positive that will give me more range than I will ever need.
From what I have been told by people who are running Suzukis on Prolines and Aqua Sports the 150 will do the job. I opted for the 175 just for the little extra kick.
IMHO I think anything more than a 175 on a flat back hull is a unneeded and will not make them much if any faster.
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Ok, I have been discussing the issue of tank, center console, fuel tank placement, weight to ride ratio, with some friends. One is dead set that the console should be at least 102" forward from the transom. That does not leave much room for a cooler in front of the console next to the casting deck. Again, my tank if about 66.5 gallons and I plan on putting at least a 45 gal. live well behind the console. I do plan on taking some off of the tank, late change as the rigging tubing was placed in a poor location so have to modify the tank. This will cause me to loose my 5-10 gallons of fuel knocking the tank down to a 56-61 gallon tank. Also, I know that the porta-bracket I plan on using will effect it. 102" is pretty darn far forward. Suggestions or opinions?
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The new tank on mine is about 80 gallons. It will start at the rear around 6 inches forward of stock. Mine too will have a 45 gallon livewell like yours...but no bracket. Mine will however have 750 lbs. of motors.
Am putting the new console exactly where it was...like the way it looks/visual balance in the original spot. I'll check with Fitz where his mounts re the casting deck.
Maybe you could go by Tommy's (he mounts brackets) and check them out, take a tape along. Let us know if you do that, or call him, and what you discover...thanks.
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i think about 7ft from transom to the back of the console looks about right...
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Bottom was gel-coated last couple of days but not sanded down yet. Found a few cracks and holes that a previous owner must have fixed themselves with something that looked like a concrete patch and then was painted over.
Sides should be painted in a week or so. Am going back and forth between just plain light blue and a brown color similar to the color that is used on that Toyota Venza sation wagon called sunset brown mica. I know it's a big color difference that my wife is wanting me to do.
After paint, flipping her over and putting deck down.
SP
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Hey SP, looks like you've reorganized your pics on Photobucket and broke all the links. Fix is move them back or edit all your posts to the new place.
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Really not sure what's going on with the link? Here is a pic. of the bottom of the hull.
(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m124/tailhuntr/73aqua/image.jpg)
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Looks like the URL is the same so I guess you deleted the pics :scratch:
Look on page 2 and 3 and you'll see what I mean.
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Still not sure what happened to some of the pics. I know I opened a sub-folder up in photobucket and moved some pics to that folder to keep an account of the rebuild a little better. I'm thinking some of the other pics were on my old cell provider site that closed. Oh well! Tried to read the posts and put some pics back of that seemed to go with my comments.
SP
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(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m124/tailhuntr/73aqua/SprintPhoto_besusb.jpg)
Hard to tell since the hull is still under the tarp but got painted on Monday. Went with light blue because I decided to also use the same color for all the non-skid on the deck. It's going to be flipped over in a day or two and then the deck is to get started. When I can get a better pic will take one and add it instead of this one.
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Foam got shot in this past week. A majority of the deck should be down this week or next.
(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m124/tailhuntr/73aqua/tomlarz004.jpg)
(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m124/tailhuntr/73aqua/tomlarz001-1.jpg)
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:thumright:
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Deck is finally down and will possibly be gel coated and then have the non-skid put on it by next Friday or one day next week. As you can see, there are no boxes in the hatches. Ran into some issues with the boxes made for these hatches not fitting due to the stringers being built up and also there were made more for the flatback hull. So, just used the casting deck with the hatches. Then, was just going to put a divider between the two and leave them open to the hull. After put down, just left it as one open space right now. So much room could probably hide two bodies inside of the hatch area. Putting off white gel coat down and then using the ice blue hull color as the non-skid. Should look interesting when done!
(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m124/tailhuntr/73aqua/2011-12-27154217.jpg)
(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m124/tailhuntr/73aqua/2011-12-27154230.jpg)
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Nearly completed, only have a few things to complete including some touch up painting, rub rail and combing pads.
(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m124/tailhuntr/73aqua/IMG_0136.jpg)
(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m124/tailhuntr/IMG_01331.jpg)
(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m124/tailhuntr/IMG_0129.jpg)
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Can we get some more detailed pics please?
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Yep, just took a quick one last night when I went to pick the boat up but found some paint issues. That is being taken care of today and I'm "supposed" to pick it up on Saturday. Putting me a little behind cause I expected to have it on the water this weekend. Oh well! I do have one or two more and can post tonight but will put some nicer ones on when boat is completed as far as putting rub rail on, combing pads and swim platform.
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So, nearly complete. Still ironing out a few issues, if your curious as to what those issues are from a local builder pm me. Got the boat back and finally got it on the water for a test ride. Ran about 43.6mph @6200rpms., with a half tank of gas and 2 people on it. Cuts the chop like butter. Very nice ride since we took it out on two very windy days. The deck is cracking near the transom and hopefully will get that taken care of. I had three leaks into the bilge area, leaking at the drain plug, leaking at the water dishcharge for the livewell (hose connect area) and leaking from the livewell intake itself. I replumbed the livewell rigging and took the drain plug off and re -sat it with some additional 5200. The deck cracking near the transom is partially due to the deck in and around the bilge hatch not being supported enough and this is something I'm going to have the shop that put the deck back down take care of....hopefully, will get taken care of!! The builder told me he does plan on fixing the deck and plans on letting me know when he can squeeze my boat in to the shop. Also, I will be getting some combing pads put on it, front deck pads for the wife so she can lay down and read her book while I'm fishing and a livewell seat in the coming weeks. I am also considering a half tower.
(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m124/tailhuntr/73aqua/deckview2.jpg)
(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m124/tailhuntr/73aqua/deckview.jpg)
(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m124/tailhuntr/73aqua/centerconsole.jpg)
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Hi,
Here's to you guys :salut:
Based on the deck striping motif...and the interior color of the livewell...I know the shop.
And I'm from North Carolina.
We're on your team bro....and there is a new Tampa alternative.
PM manana.
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Any new boat or rebuild is going to have a few issues that take some ironing out
Its how the builder takes care of it that is important
Capt Matt
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Yep, I understand that Matt but......it's been three weeks and he has yet called me to set up a date and time to fix the cracks in the deck. Ignores many of my e's. I have even e'd him to see at least if he could fix the leaking livewell intake and disharge which are both leaking. I could fix it myself but payed him to rig the boat originally and don't want to fix something and then have him say I screwed it up and that he's now not going to fix it. I knew there would be some issues when I got it home because things I wanted done he either didn't do or did it another way which I knew I was going to have to fix. One of which was I wanted the front area enclosed under the cap since I have a hatch for an anchor. He left it completely open and put a hole in the deck for my anchor line which all drains into my hatches. Hmm! When I asked him about it he just said it was easier that way.
I will give the builder a little more time but it is increasingly becoming frustrating and don't want to resolve it through legal action. Again, I hoping he steps up to the plate soon and takes care of these things.
Just a funny little note...I noticed a week before I picked up the boat that the lower unit had been repainted on my brand new motor. I know it was fine the week before so I did not say anything at the point thinking maybe I just thought it was the way the lower unit was...you know how sometimes the lower unit isn't the same color on other motors? Anyway, I called the dealer and they told me that he had come in and bought a can of spray paint since and expressed my concern with them that I thought something had happened to the lower unit and asked if he had bought a new one. An hour later, I get a call from the shop with conversation going pretty much went like this. "I understand you asked about your foot being repainted?" (motor dealer that I spoke with called him..hmm) "Ah....Yaaa!".. "I hit it by accident with a fork lift and scratched the skegg and repainted it, that's how shops do things, are we good?..."Well, why didn't you just touch up the scratch instead of repainting the entire foor?" "That's just how we do things in shops, I scratched it so it was just easier to repaint the whole lower unit."
My question to everyone would be, shouldn't he have called me to inform me about the damage before painting the entire lower unit as if to hide something and not giving me the oportunity to see the damage first? I then noticed he sent me a picture of the bracket that he had painted a week earlier, power pole bracket, and could clearly see some damage on the front edge of the lower unit near the speedo intake. It appeared to be two big dents into the front edge. So, when I picked the boat up I asked him where the scratch was just for "s**** and giggles". He went over to the lower unit and half hazzardly ran his finger along the lower edge of the skegg indicating it was just a small minor scratch. When I then brought the picture out and showed him it he said, "I don't know what that is." Hmm! I am not good with not being involved in the repair/repaint of the motor not being able to see exactly what the damage was. Maybe I'm blowing this out of proportion..am I?
I did take the boat to the marine where I purchased the motor to have them make sure evertyhing was good and diid not allow the other shop to turn the ignition which they were going to do. They looked at it and told me that it was good that the only problem might be later on if I decided to hook up a speedo it may not work. I did this to make sure of the warranty was covered since Suzuki is very strange about things.
Thats was one of many issues like that. I may post more later on but an waiting for him to step up and take care of the cracks and other issues.
Shorts
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That sucks.
If it smells like a fish, its a fish.
Nothing worse than a "professional" screwing something up and not advising the customer, then try to cover it up. Every once in a blue moon my guys will eff up something...and I pick up the phone and call the customer, right then. Not pleasant. But when you tell the truth you don't have to cover up, or remember your lies.
You have been given clear indication of the way he does business. It is now up to you, although unpleasant, to act upon what you have been shown.
Take the boat to a respected rebuilder. Ask them to examine the work, and obtain an estimate to fix it. Cut the company name off the top of the estimate. Then take the boat to the the engine dealer and have them inspect the engine, get an estimate. Then take both estimates back over to what's his name. Demand the amounts quoted. Explain to him that it will be in his best interest to take care of this NOW...don't give him the chance to get you again.
Get the boat away from him regardless. Once bitten twice shy.
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Drop the boat off at his location. As far as the lower unit goes I believe you are making a mountain out of an ant hill. Look at any boat running the shallows and the paint will be gone on the lower unit. If the LU was cracked and the fluid was leaking that would be a different story. I realize it's a new motor and all but once you start using the boat the paint on the LU will be gone.
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I do realize that eventually the lower unit will be all scratched up. Maybe that issue I'm blowing out of proportion and should just stop letting it eat at me. However, I would like to still get the deck fixed from where's it's separating from the transom as soon as possible and will continue to call him to make arrangements to get it to him to fix it along with other unmentioned issues.
Thanks!!!!! :salut:
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If a guy covers up damage without telling the customer, he's not to be trusted.
The only thing I'd be dropping off is an invoice.
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once you start using the boat the paint on the LU will be gone.[/quote]
Maybe the Marine-tex will be gone too :roll:
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An interesting read, almost (actually, probably) worth a THT thread...10 pages minimum!
Anyway, Fernando is correct about LU paint, basically the bullet and the skeg. However, that, in my opinion, is up to the owner to remove that paint via his own usage, not the shop due to an accident or negligence. A new motor is a NEW motor, as it came out of the crate, not with dents and paint missing. That being said, a simple phone call would have sufficed, explaining that, hey, the motor got dented, we need to repair and paint, it is easier to re-paint the entire LU as it is very difficult to paint a small area and have it match the rest of the factory applied paint. It's done all the time, even though Suzuki, Yamaha, BRP, Merc, all sell dealers, marinas, and shops spray cans of BRP white, Yam blue, and Suzuki and Mercury black. The chit just doesn't match up...
So, with the paint out of the way...there are certain aspects of building and rigging a boat that are basically no-brainers. Both the owner and the shop, blind-folded, would do it the same way. There are also aspects of component installation that require the shop to make a decision, basing that decision on experience in using boats in the real world, what makes sense from an ease of use standpoint, what doesn't. That's when the shop makes a "management" decision, does the install, and explains to the owner why the install was done in that particular manner. Often times this install is NOT the easiest for the shop to do, but it makes sense. I do this quite often, then, later, explain to the owner my thoughts as to why I did something a certain way. Haven't had one disagree yet.
Then there are the installs that can be done a myriad of ways, all functional, yet all different...and the install is a bit more complicated, once it's done, it can't be un-done without some serious consequences. It is at this point that the shop has to confer with the owner before any work is commenced to determine exactly what HE wants to do, how HE wants it done. Once this conference is held, and the decision made, then the owner has only himself to kick should the install not work out as he intended. But, the conversation MUST be held in regards to these types of situations.
In regards to the repair of the scratches on the leading edge of the bullet where the speedo pickup lives, THAT particular situation, should the opening for the pickup have been plugged up (either by a weld or other means) needs to be taken care of by the shop. That has limited the motor of all it's functions, which is not right, by any means...
So, all that being said, the decision in regards to the shop is in your hands, SP. Sometimes a happy little chat with the owner can work wonders as far as getting things resolved in a timely and correct manner in regards as to what you want on your boat, in your boat, and, especially, what you have paid for. There are many threads that have been started on THT that are basically mirror images of your situation, and, trust me, the offending shop/marina/builder REALLY doesn't want to see those types of things out there for the boating public to see and comment on...
Just my $.02....
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I know the shop, and I honestly do not know how they are still in business...his rep in the bay area has gone from good to ok to not so good within a years time it seems...work looks ok on the boats, but customer service is really lacking. I wonder, is it a lack of boat rebuilders in the area that keeps him somewhat busy?
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Before we get our talons out; let's give the guy an opportunity to make it right. I've also heard he is building his own AS or Proline knock off and may have shifted his attention to new boat sales. In the past, this guy had a heck of a reputation for doing some high quality work so we will see if he still wants to maintain that status.
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Fitz,
Regardless of he particular shop's intentions as to the direction they want to go, the business model remains the same. Whether it's a new boat, a rebuild, a livewell addition, a FF, whatever...the customer needs to be taken care of, as satisfied customers can be the basis for much business i the future.
Conversely, the customer also has to understand that he is not the only fish in the pond, and must be aware that there are other customers to be dealt with, with some needs more pressing and time consuming than others. We ALL know, that in the boat world, what may appear to be a 2, 3, 12, even 24 hour job? Double that, and then some. So that is the nature of the beast, and both sides have to be aware of that...
The key is communication. Simple explanations at the onset of certain projects can go a long way towards making everyone aware, on the same page, and, to a certain extent...happy.
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"The key is communication"
I'll try and give the benefit of the doubt here. But I've been financially injured regarding boat deals, taking people at their word. So if I can help an AS brother, its gonna happen.
I am in retail. In the grownup toy business, just as Seabob is in the grownup toy business. My toys are for ladies for the most part, and Bob's toys are for gents for the most part.
NO ONE has to have what either of us sell. Strictly for feel-good fun, enjoying life and good times. A person that spends discretionary income (hard-earned earmarked play money) on a toy deserves their money's worth. That is, happiness and satisfaction in the end. Value received.
For shortpants to have paid and paid on draws all through the build process....then the owner not even take or return his calls or e-mails at the end....
I'll tone it down here...that's just not right.
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Scott, you are absolutely correct in saying..."That's just not right"...
However, the world has changed, albeit to your's and mine's chagrin, and one see's more and more of this type of behavior. Right, wrong, or indifferent, it is here to stay, and, in some eyes, is becoming more and more prevalent.
Remember back to the time of Greek mythyology, and our friend Pandora. All was right with mortal kind...until she opened her little box. 20 emotions were let loose upon the mortals to wreak havoc, yet one remained at the bottom...hope.
We to often dwell on the 20 that got out, instead of the one that stayed in...
JMO...
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We're gonna find out.
Break out the jumbo popcorn, and giant-size Milkduds.
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Ju-Ju Bees for me, please...maybe Dots!
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You know, Scott, you said something earlier about the cockpit sole "striping"...just dawned on me. Fernando's boat has the same striping done in sand...and I know who that shop was...
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Different shops Bob.
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Different shops Bob.
Correct Fernando.... :salut:
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The only thing that we all have, that is truly our own is our word (read honor). It is really disturbing to see how easily some folks seem to give it up....
When my youngest was in 4H, her club leader borrowed our horse trailer, went through a fast food drive through on the way to an event and hit the top of the trailer on the overhead. Instead of the teaching the kids a life lesson about 'fessing up when mistakes are made, she said to my daughter "don't tell your parents about this, I'll have my boyfriend fix it".. My kid told us about everything as soon as she got home and we felt sick, not about the damage, but the total lack of honor that it all represented.
As I read the last part of this thread I feel the same way, and the thing going through my mind is that this is NOT cool, you're not wrong to be bummed/pissed about any of it. I hope you get the resolution that you need...
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I plan on taking the boat to his shop one way or another whether he calls me back to make time for the boat. Since I know that some on this site are friends with him maybe they will give him a call to have him step up to the plate as soon as possible. I would like to just have him fix the issues addressed so that I can move on with it and put the boat on the water with confidence!
Am I asking too much for him to address the issue of the deck separating from the transom? The other issues are minor and can be fixed at anytime besides the leaks....This is a question specifically addressed to one forum member that pm'd me...
And Blue, I undestand the lower unit will eventually get scraped up along the skegg. I should be the one doing the skegg burns on the water. However, shouldn't I have been informed when the damage was caused to at least keep me from thinking that there was more damage to the lower unit then just a scratch? Then, I would have just said paint it and let's move on. However, I have the type of personallity that leads me to believe when you don't inform and then cover up, there was a reason..When I discussed that with him we did not see eye to eye on it. However, when I put it into prospective since he owns a Harley, how would he have felt if he'd taken his Harley with the newly painted tank(which was recently painted up all nice and pretty) to the Harley shop and they scratched it and then repainted it and sent him out the door without informing him how would he have handled it? Just for thought! Consider everything on this boat is my Harley right now and more..Please, understand that.
Again, I am only asking questions at this point to what I should have done and should do. I am NOT putting the name of the shop on this post at this time and I understand that members come to their own assumptions as to which shop I'm referring to based on the deck design. Until a time that I'm comfortable or not in naming the shop, I am hoping that with his professionalism and reputation as a boat builder that he will do what is right and take care of these issues. :thumright:
Thanks everyone!!! Shortpants
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(Edit) Decided to stay out of this thread. If shortpants wants to call me I will share my experience with this shop.
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I am 99% sure I know that shop and I had similar experiences with not getting a reply email/phone call about some questions I had from them. I know in the past they have had good feedback so that's disappointing that it seems to be going down this road now.
For me: I am more than anything I am surprised that; with as many of this style boats they rebuild/build on their own now, they wouldn't know to beef up that area where you're having the stress cracks BEFORE laying down the deck.
After going back to look at your pics, have you reconsidered having them add an additional bulkhead or support of some type for the front casting deck. Looks like there's a log of unsupported deck space with only the hatch channel supporting the center of the deck (as it looks from the pictures, might be different in person or with a better angle).
I understand your frustration on the Lower Unit- its your motor- make your own scratches! haha, even if he didn't call you when it first happened, it would have been nice if he was straight with you about it when you called him out on it... I think that's the real issue with his 'cover-up'. Plants a bad seed in your mind...
Hope it works out and you end up satisfied and get the product you've paid for!
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I understand your frustration and the fact that you want to go boating. I believe that if you go and have a face to face with him you will get a response as opposed to waiting on an email or phone call. In my opinion he is a reasonable person and I'm certain he will make it right. I hope things work out for the best.
As far as the LU goes, I believe that is a non issue.
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If its the shop im thinking, ive seen great work come from there. Beautiful boats for sure built with great matetials. Definitely a skilled individual, just needs to make things right and im sure he will. Im just kinda old school and like friendly person to person interaction and honesty, two things that are becoming quite scarce...and I think its "stand-up" of everyone not to mention the shop name on the forum...
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Shortpants if is the same person that worked on mine, move on It will not get fixed trust me. PM me if you like
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All us of here in the Tampa Bay area know what shop is in question here. I personally have not had direct contact with the individual that owns this shop, but from testimony here, classicmako, THT....damn, there are some issues with the proprieter!
That being said, I am sure there are hundreds of owners that are more than satisfied with the work that this shop has performed. Unfortunately, the number of threads started by people who are happy pales in comparison to the number who are not. It's not like we pick up the newspaper in the morn and read about a Mom who took her kids to school...we, as humans, just love to hear the bad chit...
Just sayin'...
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I think its "stand-up" of everyone not to mention the shop name on the forum
Gonzo says it best :thumleft:
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All us of here in the Tampa Bay area know what shop is in question here. I personally have not had direct contact with the individual that owns this shop, but from testimony here, classicmako, THT....damn, there are some issues with the proprieter!
That being said, I am sure there are hundreds of owners that are more than satisfied with the work that this shop has performed. Unfortunately, the number of threads started by people who are happy pales in comparison to the number who are not. It's not like we pick up the newspaper in the morn and read about a Mom who took her kids to school...we, as humans, just love to hear the bad chit...
Just sayin'...
Agreed, good points guys.
To the extent that this board has a high percentage of Tampa area membership...and since he has specialized in 1970's 22-2 Aquasport rebuilds....this board represents an important, core customer base.
He is a member, maybe this will catch his ear and he will input soon.
Hopefully this is quickly and satisfactorily resolved.
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Put the second stringer in today and glassed them both down to the hull. Going to put some bulkheads in next along with keel stringer. Either going to use some of the same as the stringer molds or might just use some Nidacore and glass that over. Not sure yet... :scratch: When those are complete, will foam in the stringers and move on to putting the tank in. Slowly coming together.
I am looking for a center console. Any suggestions? I like what LilRichard put in his or still thinking about narrowing the original one and raising it up a little.
(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m124/tailhuntr/73aqua/482f62b0568d.jpg)
Short, read your thread in its entirety earlier today. Now reviewing the photo highlights.
This is your stringer work from '09, before it went to him for the floor install.
Nice, beefy too.
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(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m124/tailhuntr/73aqua/9b479717a6a6__1265988363000-1.jpg)
(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m124/tailhuntr/73aqua/falsefloor.jpg)
Very stout, you did a great job belowdecks. On the interior hull sides....hopefully longitudinal supports/fillets were added underneath the deck, glassed to the interior hull sides on the long run between bulkheads, as support for the outer edge floor install.
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I know that the work that I went to the shop prior is very good work and in some places, heavier then needed. Gran, as far as any supports along the sides as I stopped by every now and then I believe the shop only used the bulkheads for support when laying the deck down on the sides and nothing was added on the sides. That being said, nothing was added in the back along the transom either in between the knees which in my opinion, I'm not an expert, should have been done based on how long the bulk head hatch is. You can stand to either side and even on top of that hatch and watch it bounce.
A friend of mine stopped by last week to pick up the lid for the livewell. He told me that the shop owner was upset that he just stopped by...that was after several messages were left and calls were made prior to stopping by but he didn't answer. Anyway, my friend quickly told him if he'd answered the phone and checked his messages he would have known. While getting the lid, the shop owner asked my friend to show him where the cracks were on another rebuild he was doing. His exact comment to my friend, "I don't think it's the floor, the transom is probably flexing." Again, I feel it's an issue with no supports being put between the knees under the floor and maybe and additional bulkhead or two around where he placed that hatch. This issue along with some of the other are quick fixes if he were to just make arrangments with me.
I invite anyone on this forum who lives within the Tampa Bay area to PM me an stop by and look at the floor and form your own opinions. I am open to any and all suggestions regarding what might be the cause of the floor separating/cracking along the transom. I am more then confident that's it's not the transom.
I also wanted to mention..THANKS for all the support. :thumleft: Although I have not meant anyone on here in person it's comforting to know that in today's society that as long as you have a common interest you will always have a support network!!!
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Did you do the transom? If so and if anything like the stringer work you did, should be stout.
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FYI .Went by the place that bought my tower ,seen some work he was doing on a 73 222 .
they do full restorations and repairs on any classic boats, if any one is interested .The quality was awesome.
The name is Shipoke boats ,they build flats boats, located in Safety harbor The owner is really great and has been helping me move forward with my 67 222. Here are just a couple pics I took
(http://i1072.photobucket.com/albums/w378/klinebuilders/2012-06-07_12-28-58_763.jpg)
(http://i1072.photobucket.com/albums/w378/klinebuilders/2012-06-07_12-28-45_384.jpg)
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That would be Eugene... :salut:
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Yes, nice guy and I recently fished one of his 18 foot flats boat,really nice work
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My two cents:
Bring it to Eugene and walk away from the company in question. Eugene will take good care of fixing what needs to be fixed. There will be added expense, but to a trust worthy, notable guy who will stand by his work. Plus he is ever present in the forums and does rely on word of mouth.
Bringing it back to the company in question will end up being a drawn out process in which your boat will sit there forever and be cosmetically fixed if that. I don't see this builder pulling up the deck, fixing what needs to be fixed, and re-doing the rest for what he knows will be expected as part of what has already been paid. Heck, you paid him once and it wasn't done right then. I am sure you can see that asking him to do it again for "free" is not reality.
All that being said, my sincere apologies for this unfortunate experience. Went through something like this last year on a substantially smaller scale and can imagine where your head's at.
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Eugene does high quality work at a fair price. I have done business with Shipoke, they do what they say at the price agreed, and on time.
The photos shown are of a new 22-2 rebuild...check out the integrated livewell....sa-weet :thumright:
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Update, finally got in contact with the shop and kinda-sorta set up a date to drop the boat off to have the deck looked at. I am having two other shops give me a quote. Either way, am moving forward one way or another with the boat to get it the way she needs to be. I recenlty finally was able to afford some vinyl and aluminum work and added the livewell seat, cushion in front of the center console and cooler cushion. Looks great with the added vinyl! I do need a tilt helm though since putting the seat on the livewell doesn't afford much room to squeeze by.
(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m124/tailhuntr/2012-06-18191710.jpg)
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tilt helms don't last very long compared to a regular helm
If at all possible stay with the regular helm
Capt Matt
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So for anyone interested in what two other glass shops had to say after I ran it by them, pm me. Very interesting! It's amazing that both shops said exactly the same thing about the deck that was put down. At this point, not sure what to do. At what point do you just say the heck with it and either sell or whatever? One guy at a shop did tell me that the boat is worth the repair since the hull is very straight and it's rare to find such a straight hull. Whatever that means..... I'm not sure. For sale!!!!! All offers considered.lol
While towing the boat around, must have had 8 cars pull up beside me and put their thumbs up. She really is pretty and turns head!!
Shorts(aka-discouraged) new name ...lol
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She looks sweet!
Do yourself a favor. Step back, take many deep breaths over the course of some days, and reassess your situation. At least do yourself that favor...what the ball peens (get my drift?) have done is is not going to sink the boat, it is fixable, and will most likely degrade only to a certain point with usage of the boat.
But don't feel by any means like it is time to get rid of the boat. Obviously, indicated by the looks and comments you got, she is a sweetheart. So take due dilligence and insist that the ball peens take care of the matter. They are the ones who effed it up, afterall...
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I know exactly how you feel. I've been screwed over a bunch, mostly in the last five years (Great Recession)...it still shocks me how people can knowingly and purposefully stick you in the back, and then twist the knife for good measure. Not saying that's what happened to you. But regardless, it is no fun, and actually very depressing.
I'm with Bob....take a step back, take some deep breaths, and assess the situation over the next several days. You have two estimates both pointing out the same shortcomings. Think it through, plan the work, and work the plan.
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Haven't checked out this thread in a while, but I like pulling it up and seeing a couple of pics of my boat! Guys at Shipoke will certainly do a good job for anyone who is looking for or needs someone.
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By the way, that tower of yours is going on that boat, I think it'll be a perfect setup.
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Just to let everyone know, Shipoke although I believe they would do quality work to level that I was anticipating the shop that I orginally took the boat in doing, is a little out of my price range at this time . If I had know about Shipoke in the beginning I would have never used the other shop!!!!!. I will just throw this out there that I am a SPPD officer and after the loss of several co-workers just wanted to get on the water and relax if you know what I mean since the shop that was doing the work go so busy he was unable to work on it any longer building TCraft boats. This is why I chose the boat shop in Tampa based on it's website. It's a shame because the orignaly shop it was at does some really great work but just slower then heck.
I did find a shop several k$ off of Shipoke's cost that I am considering. Everything up in the air right now. However, I do plan on taking the boat back to the original location to see if the issues can be resolved. Again, I am hoping he understands what is needed to be done to make this right and does!!!! If he is an honest and respectable business man I'm sure he will do what is necessary to save his, "reputation". as a boat builder. I do plan on taking the boat to him one day this coming week and having a talk with him unannounced. This is only because he isn't so good about making arrangements unless he needs money, IMHO! I was given a heads up that one member on this site is close with him and am hoping that this friend nudges him to get him to do what is right by pulling the PVC board he used on my floor up and replacing it with Nidacore. I am still not going to mention the shops name by the sites rules but am wondering if THT's rules are the same
I know I continue to thank everyone for their support but I really do appreciate it!!
Thanks, Shorts (Tom)
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Tom, I'm sure that your friends enjoy your company, and value your friendship.
Know what you have been through, and it sucks that it continues. Not only is it unpleasant but it can easily kill the desire for a nice boat and the boating experience.
My advice is once bitten twice shy. Take the boat by, but only to point out what you have been shown by other professionals, no names. Then ask how he proposes to compensate you financially. You are a police officer, it is only natural to mention your job, district court and the folks you work with daily. Nothing political or underhanded....just that you know and are familiar with procedural matters.
Absolutely no way you should leave the boat there again. Will PM you on that.
Best to you, keep us posted, thanks.
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I had a question for you .I did not see earlier where you said they used PVC board ,I used PVC board on my floor (recommended by a friend and a boat repair shop)He as performed extensive work with PVC board and tested its strength quality and glass attachment .It is has always been very successful if prepped properly,I have pieces from my deck that we saved from installation that are almost impossible to destroy or pull apart, what did the other shops say the cause of your issues were with this product.I have never known that builder to use that for any of there builds.P.M me if you want, I do know who the builder was.
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As soon as weather clears, I do plan on taking a few pictures to post. Again, I am down in the Bradenton area if anyone would like to take a look to form your own opinion.
Thanks, Shorts
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Nidacore is going to be weaker than the PVC board
I'm guessing you need a thicker deck or a better way to support it
Good luck with the builder
Capt Matt
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Good luck with the builder
Capt Matt
It is time for the builder, a founding member here, to input.
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Good luck with the builder
Capt Matt
It is time for the builder, a founding member here, to input.
I'm not sure he is a member here. He might have been friends with some of the early members though.
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Unless I did something wrong, his domain name is up for sale.
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Okay, I have left phone messages, texts, and e-mails for "the shop" and have not one returned since pulling my boat out of his shop...well one was returned 3 weeks ago indicating that he would let me know about being able to look at the boat after the 21st....I've texted him and e'd him a week ago...no return response! I am over his inadequate ability to communicate after he gets his money! Let me tell you, when he wants money from you he calls immediately!!!!!! I would even call him back when he called about the money..hmmmmm.
I have had two shops give me quotes on the deck alone which run between between 10-5k. They both mentioned the inadequate glassing of the deck to support both the deck and hull. I am getting one more estimate tomorrow to for a peace of mind.
Here are a few photos showing his quality, or lack of in my opinion, work. see the cracks coming out from the knees? The overspray of light blue of my motor is crazzzzzzzy. On the water, my motor looks ice-blue!! The cracks of the deck are getting worse. I know even have crack on the deck around the (Admin Edit) livewell. He must in the process of flipping it over scrapped it on the ground. The hull, rear port side and middle both have flat spots from being dragged. Hard to see in photos in photos but trust me or come see for yourself!!!!!!! The non-skid has areas where it is either just scrapping off or rusting out from him having popped a screwed up underneath and not addressing it. I'm affraid to even knock the boat on either the dock or with anyone on the boat for fear of the thin paint he sprayed on it coming off. My anchor barely hit the hull when I was pulling it out of the water and put a knick in the side that shoud have never happened with a quality paint job!!!!!!!!! In some areas, the primer shows through...crazzzzzzzzzzzzy! Heck, even the qualty of the livewell he is known for scratches easily. You hit it with anything including the livewell cover and it scrathes down to the light blue primer color.
Sorry for all the edits, computer keeps screwing with me...lol!
I apologize it appears I'm compaining...well, I am!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You think our paying money for quality work and you get this! Several AS forums members have contacted with similar issues.
Here are are few pics....
(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m124/tailhuntr/2012-07-02180019.jpg)
This shows the primer shadowing throug the paint on the corner.
(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m124/tailhuntr/2012-07-02173713.jpg)
Here, looking up underneath, barely shows the port, rear corner of the hull where it is scrapped probably from being flipped over after the outside hull was sprayed.
(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m124/tailhuntr/2012-07-02172637.jpg)
This shows, I think, that the what he used to sprayed the deck is crack around the reciever area of the bilge hatch. Hard to see with my pics but look in the middle near the edge, flacking paint.
(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m124/tailhuntr/2012-07-02172719.jpg)
Above picture show the nice job he did with the overspray...can you see the ice-blue color in and around my porta-bracket?
(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m124/tailhuntr/2012-07-02172655.jpg)
Hmm, no glass or anything where the deck adheres to the stringers.
(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m124/tailhuntr/2012-07-02172448.jpg)
Cracks formng around the knees.
(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m124/tailhuntr/2012-07-02172437.jpg)
Carefully look at how the crack is coming straight out on the deck from the knee. Hard to see but spider crack.
(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m124/tailhuntr/2012-07-02172422.jpg)
(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m124/tailhuntr/2012-07-02172808.jpg)
View from bilge are towards the livewell access. Again, no glass between deck and stringers.
I thought I'd taken a picture of where he must have dropped the boat on the rear under the drain pluc are where it looks like a flat back.....I will take a picture of that later and post it. Nice flat area turning my boat into a flat back hull with a small crack in the gel-coat.
On a happy not, here is the wife and I on water last weekend where she is his operating the boat.
(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m124/tailhuntr/Image1.jpg)
shorts
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What a shame to see this from what was a reputable builder; at least as history had depicted. Cash flow now going up his nose or down his throat most likely. No longer can pay suppliers or keep quality employees. Since we are pretty timid on this forum about bashing vendors which I understand; the best you can do is report this to the Better Business Bureau and seek legal action. These rebuilds are serious money and you have an obligation to not let this guy walk from this.
I have no doubt you have some friends to help with this cause!
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Don't think you're going to see many decks glassed to the stringers, whats usually done, & he might have, is some type of bonding agent is placed on top of the stringer to glue the deck down, might not be able to see evidence of that unless theres so much applied it gets squished out when the deck is laid down.
Those cracks around the knees look like they need to be addressed, can you get a pic thats not zoomed in so close?
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If you look carefully at the pics...there is no sign of adhesive whatsoever between the deck and the stringer tops. You would expect to see plexus, or whatever adhesive, oozing out.
All I see is a shim.
Tom, you mentioned a while back a substantial amount of flex where the deck joins the sides. How much flex would you say there is? That should also be noted by a third party. A marine surveyor would be your best bet.
After filing the BBB complaint, take your estimates and expert third party evidence and file suit against him.
Bet he'll learn how to use a phone again.
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The cracks coming from the knees have gotten worse. I will take another pic when I can maybe this weekend. I don't keep the boat at my house, keep it at a friends.
The flexing from the sides is not real bad I think because the deck is built up about 3" it avoids most of the beating from the water that it would get normally. I'm not sure, but watching the sides this weekend seemed to be okay. I say that with some apprehension because you can push on the sides when it's on the trailer and see how flexible it is which structually doesn't seem very strong, but it is glass, right? The cracks are not going up the outside of both needs. When I say cracks, looks like the glass is peeling away from the knees. You can see it on one of the pictures but the more I run the boat the worse it is getting.
I did hear from the shop by e after sending at least two e's a week. The last e I got from him was about early back in June when he mentioned he was busy and wouldn't expect to be able to do anything on it till after the 21st and that he would let me know if anything changed. I did not hear back in and around the 21st. so I e'd him and texted him several times. Nothing. I finally sent and e on Friday of last week and asked that he'd please respond to an e and let me know if he can fix it in a week or next year but an e would be nice! He finally answered me back and told me that he was booked at least for the next 8 months with work and was on vacation and that he told me he wouldn't be able to do anything until after the 21st....hmmmm, it is after the 21st. but now he has 8 months of work.
All I can say is that the saga goes on....I have considered law suits but someone I've spoken with that knows him well gave me some information about him. What's the old saying, "You can't squeeze blood from a turnip!"
Oh, I forgot! I did get one more quote. Originally he suggested cutting the deck and pulling it up behind the livewell and reinforcing the area and then putting the deck back down leaving a seam since he would not be able to match the non-skid probably. He also said that the area needed to have some more supports near the transom and under the hatch. He took a day to think about it and called me back and trashed the easy route. He told me that they,his shops guys, were uncomfortable doing that because it would now cause the rest of the floor to not take on the added stress. Does that make sense? Anyway, he would only be able to repair the deck by putting another deck down using Divinycell and not Nidacore. Still, several more thousand to have him fix it.
Shorts
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I am really sorry to see the problems you are having. I wish I would of contacted you back when I saw the pictures during your build and warned you of who you were dealing with.
My first hand experience with this guy was less than pleasurable to say the least.
I hope somehow you can get your problems resolved.
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Just a quick note....after mulling over my boat for weeks as what to do with it and the continuing structure issues, I have dropped my boat off with Eugene at Shipoke Boats. I went to his shop and after meeting with him feel very comfortable with my decision and so far the experience has exceptional! I'm sure Eugene won't mind posting a few pics as the new deck goes down for viewing with the forum. I am very excited with knowing the quality work that his shop will be doing on my boat and look forward to putting her on the water in a few months!
Also...guessing it was good timing since Eugene discovered that the "other" shop, and we all know which shop that is, mounted my porta-bracket with lag bolts on the bottom of the bracket. Who knows how long it would have been before my motor dropped off into the water or in the middle of the road!
(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m124/tailhuntr/73Aqua%20redo%20of%20redo/lagboltsinporta.jpg)
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Just a quick note....after mulling over my boat for weeks as what to do with it and the continuing structure issues, I have dropped my boat off with Eugene at Shipoke Boats. I went to his shop and after meeting with him feel very comfortable with my decision and so far the experience has bar none! I'm sure Eugene won't mind posting a few pics as the new deck goes down for viewing with the forum. I am very excited with knowing the quality work that his shop will be doing on my boat and look forward to putting her on the water in a few months!
Great news. The members are big on Shipoke for good reason.
I know from speaking with Eugene that he feels badly about the circumstances surrounding you guy's repairs. He hates that ya'll were delivered inferior, and in some cases, potentially dangerous work.
The good news is, as Captain Betz says...when it leaves there...its right :wink:
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I am confident that when you get your boat back from Shipoke you will be able to enjoy it, and hopefully put your bad experience behind you.
When I mounted my Porta Bracket (with optional swim platforms) I had to lag bolt the two lower holes at the platforms. According to Scott Porta that was OK to do but all the center mounting areas needed to be through bolted.
There is a lot of stress in that center area of the bracket. I cant imagine why anyone would think lag bolting it would be sufficient.
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Sorry for the delay in responding. I had a bit of a shiner on my left eye that I have been tending to.
(http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/ab19/group_w_bench/IMG_20121022_093854.jpg)
Doctor swears the swelling will go down soon, but I'm really beginning to miss depth perception.
Shortpants and Steve, thanks for the vote of confidence. Steve, your swim platform bolts were 1/2 inch bolts threaded into the tapped ceramic of the transom. This is an acceptable practice for the swim platform bolts. What is not acceptable is what we discovered when breaking down Shortpant's boat. The bottom bolts on the Porta Bracket were not bolts at all, but rather 1/2 x1.5 inch stainless lag screws driven into a wood transom with a small dab of white silicone. Coupled with white plastic 1.5 inch thru hulls below the waterline, bilge thru hulls "glued" into place with white silicone due to clearance of the nut, exposed and unsealed wood on every transom fitting, and a myriad of other fit and finish issues, suffice it to say that the boat was effed up as a mayonaisse biscuit.
I don't like getting recently restored boats into our shop under these types of circumstances, b/c you guys spent a good deal of money on the prior restoration, and simply did not get what you paid for in my opinion. Rest assured, however, that when it leaves our shop, it will be right.
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Eugene, now mayonnaise has it's place...but can't say I've ever heard of it on a biscuit! Are you saying what you found is the work of the recent re-build? Holy chit!!!
And who punched you...Gabe?
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Oft times, with transom t/hulls and other hardware, one finds that the backing nut either won't sit flush top the mating surface due to irregular glass buildup, or due to a larger fitting being installed to where a radius is now preventing the nut from seating. The only fix? Break out the die grinder or surface grinder and remove the glass to allow the nut to sit flush when tightened down. Only way to do it.
And lagging (even if it was just the bottom "bolts") a Porta-Bracket on? Jeezus Christ...
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Eugene...you okay bud?
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Eugene...you okay bud?
Sure he is...he's smiling! As the old comment goes..."You should see the other guy!!!"
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Sorry for the delay in responding. I had a bit of a shiner on my left eye that I have been tending to.
(http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/ab19/group_w_bench/IMG_20121022_093854.jpg)
Doctor swears the swelling will go down soon, but I'm really beginning to miss depth perception.
Shortpants and Steve, thanks for the vote of confidence. Steve, your swim platform bolts were 1/2 inch bolts threaded into the tapped ceramic of the transom. This is an acceptable practice for the swim platform bolts. What is not acceptable is what we discovered when breaking down Shortpant's boat. The bottom bolts on the Porta Bracket were not bolts at all, but rather 1/2 x1.5 inch stainless lag screws driven into a wood transom with a small dab of white silicone. Coupled with white plastic 1.5 inch thru hulls below the waterline, bilge thru hulls "glued" into place with white silicone due to clearance of the nut, exposed and unsealed wood on every transom fitting, and a myriad of other fit and finish issues, suffice it to say that the boat was effed up as a mayonaisse biscuit.
I don't like getting recently restored boats into our shop under these types of circumstances, b/c you guys spent a good deal of money on the prior restoration, and simply did not get what you paid for in my opinion. Rest assured, however, that when it leaves our shop, it will be right.
Sorry I meant to say they were tapped and 1/2 stainless bolts were used ONLY on the swim platform bracket. Of course I could of not used bolts with all the 5200 I had used according to you. :mrgreen:
Take care of that shiner. I may stop by this week.
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I'm fine, just really sore. Backyard MMA after a bad Bucs game and a six pack is generally a pretty poor idea, even with the oversized boxing gloves. The other guy got it pretty bad from 2 roundhouse kicks to the ribs and a spinning back kick to the back of the head. One front kick ended up with my flip flop flying into his head like a projectile. Unfortunately, that big cornbread and titty milk raised country boy had some seriously heavy hands. I went up to block a right hook and whacked myself right in the eye with the backside of my left wrist. There is no padding on the back of those gloves. The back of my wrist actually hurts worse than my eye. Just a word of caution, never spar with a guy who raises his own bees and uses his own trackhoe to lift outboard engines on/off of transoms. He will whip your arse.
The doctor would not lance it to relieve pressure for fear of infection. He was not impressed with the Rocky impersonation of , "Come on, cut me Mick". He, like my wife, thinks I'm an idiot.
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you shouldnt take a Buc's loss so badly- we've been doing it for years! haha
get some ice on that thing! sheesh!
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Man!
Well, if I ever need any azz-whippin' done, I'll fly you up here :mrgreen:
In the meantime, I hope you get well soon :thumright:
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I ought not be flying anywhere to do some azz whoopin'. It was yours truly who got hucklebucked, not the other way around.
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I'm fine, just really sore. Backyard MMA after a bad Bucs game and a six pack is generally a pretty poor idea, even with the oversized boxing gloves. The other guy got it pretty bad from 2 roundhouse kicks to the ribs and a spinning back kick to the back of the head. One front kick ended up with my flip flop flying into his head like a projectile. Unfortunately, that big cornbread and titty milk raised country boy had some seriously heavy hands. I went up to block a right hook and whacked myself right in the eye with the backside of my left wrist. There is no padding on the back of those gloves. The back of my wrist actually hurts worse than my eye. Just a word of caution, never spar with a guy who raises his own bees and uses his own trackhoe to lift outboard engines on/off of transoms. He will whip your arse.
The doctor would not lance it to relieve pressure for fear of infection. He was not impressed with the Rocky impersonation of , "Come on, cut me Mick". He, like my wife, thinks I'm an idiot.
As a Saints fan we enjoyed the win but like most games it was a nail biter to the end. :mrgreen:
Hope you get better soon and love the work your shop puts out.
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Fishinonthebrain,
Thanks for the kind words about the shop. I'm less impressed with the game, although I was asking "who dat" after getting my eye dotted. Old Gran398 saw the video of the bout, so at least one CA member has seen both the arse whoopin in conjunction with the whoopin received. At the end of the day, much like the Bucs, despite holding our own early on, we both got hucklebucked.
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Yep, I saw the video. It was after dark, there were two guys. One was a 19 year old blonde buck with his shirt off......the other was a shorter guy in a gray T shirt.
The video was taken by a bunch of howling folks that were having a damn good time. It wasn't a "fight" per se...more of a backyard MMA exhibition. Both athletes wore boxing gloves, no headgear, and seemed friendly at first.
The round begins.
Bruce Lee is posturing on the young buck. The buck is game, but apprehensive. Bruce begins the action with a big time roundhouse left foot to the kidney. You can hear it. The buck is stunned. The crowd roars.
Second strike, Bruce executes a spinning back kick to the head of the buck. Buck never sees it coming. It was pretty too. Buck doubles over. The crowd REALLY hoots on this one.
By now, Buck is seeing the truth. He lashes out in desperation. He mounts a bull rush charge. Hits Bruce with a right hand...on the dark video, didn't look like much. Wouldn't call it a hook, or a straight right. More of a loping overhand. But it's dark. Bruce blocks it, but his glove was crushed into his eye. Bruce described the buck's blow as "heavy handed."
Bruce is a badass in my book. The buck was bigger, taller, and younger. But you should have seen Bruce in action. He was doing all of this neat stuff with his hands, and making cool shrieking noises for the fans. It was deshitt :thumright:
I've asked Bruce to hang up the gloves. At some point we all have to give up good clean fun with nineteen year old roofers and sheet rock boys :mrgreen:
You did good tho bud...those kicks were quick, accurate, and hard. For sure the kid knows. Way to call it done :thumright:
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I didn't know you were such a colorful writer Scott. Not since Frank Deford's SI days has such riveting commentary been penned about two average hacks pounding each other in the back yard over a cooler of beer.
I am definitely hanging up the gloves though.
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Yep, I saw the video. It was after dark, there were two guys. One was a 19 year old blonde buck with his shirt off......the other was a shorter guy in a gray T shirt.
The video was taken by a bunch of howling folks that were having a damn good time. It wasn't a "fight" per se...more of a backyard MMA exhibition. Both athletes wore boxing gloves, no headgear, and seemed friendly at first.
The round begins.
Bruce Lee is posturing on the young buck. The buck is game, but apprehensive. Bruce begins the action with a big time roundhouse left foot to the kidney. You can hear it. The buck is stunned. The crowd roars.
Second strike, Bruce executes a spinning back kick to the head of the buck. Buck never sees it coming. It was pretty too. Buck doubles over. The crowd REALLY hoots on this one.
By now, Buck is seeing the truth. He lashes out in desperation. He mounts a bull rush charge. Hits Bruce with a right hand...on the dark video, didn't look like much. Wouldn't call it a hook, or a straight right. More of a loping overhand. But it's dark. Bruce blocks it, but his glove was crushed into his eye. Bruce described the buck's blow as "heavy handed."
Bruce is a badass in my book. The buck was bigger, taller, and younger. But you should have seen Bruce in action. He was doing all of this neat stuff with his hands, and making cool shrieking noises for the fans. It was deshitt :thumright:
I've asked Bruce to hang up the gloves. At some point we all have to give up good clean fun with nineteen year old roofers and sheet rock boys :mrgreen:
You did good tho bud...those kicks were quick, accurate, and hard. For sure the kid knows. Way to call it done :thumright:
LMAO!!!!!!! Still laughing. I can picture it now as I was sitting around on Saturdays waiting for Kung Fu Theatre to come on when I was a kid. I don't remember any with Eugene in the movie.........
Here is a pic of the boat now, can you believe it? Looks better now then when I got it out of the first shop..Hehe.
(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m124/tailhuntr/73Aqua%20redo%20of%20redo/IMG_20121026_145858.jpg)
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Those interior hullsides look sweet! Nice and clean! Looking good, SP!!! :thumright: :thumright:
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Shortpants may be getting tired of update photos. He has gotten about a dozen a day for the last week. The hullsides of his boat had become very thin between the grinding by the previous shop and then our subsequent grinding off of the fairing compound by us at Shipoke. The hullsides were downright flimsy. They were around 1/8" thick (width of 2 stacked quarters). Originally, the plan was to glass with 3/4 oz mat and 2 x 1808. After looking over the hull this morning, we decided a change of plan was in order for 2 reasons.
1) Shortpants has a 5k lb tow capacity on his tow rig, and between boat, tower, trailer, and fuel, it will get close. We started thinking about going into weight savings mode. There is nothing wrong with saving weight as long as the laminates are just as strong as heavier methods. The problem is that light weight, strong laminates usually cost considerably more than bulky cloths like 24 oz roving or 1808. But like any business, the "know your client rule" applies to boat building as well. You don't want to rebuild his boat with so much weight that he has to go buy a new tow vehicle to get to the ramp.
2) since the hull is thinner than normal after multiple grindings, we were worried about print through transferring with 1808. 1808 is an inexpensive way to build bulk, but also soaks up a lot of resin. The exothermic reaction of catalyzing resin gives off heat which allows the weave pattern of 1808 to transfer through ("print through") the exterior laminates due to excessive heat.
We ended up using 3/4 oz mat, 2 mil coremat, and 2x 3/4 oz mat from 6 inches below the chine all the way to the sheerline. After discussing the change of plans with Shortpants, we glassed the hullsides today in order to allow for a very low and slow temperature cure. We kicked at 1% instead of the customary 2.5% to mitigate heat and potential print of overlaps (more on that later). Each side took approximately 1.5 hours to lay up between 4 guys. We utilized 3.75 gallons of resin per side, or 7.5 gallons total including glassing in the transom knees. Transom knees are 1.5 inch Penske board glassed in with mat, and 3 x 1708. The calculated weight savings over the originally proposed 1808 schedule was approximately 20 gallons, and the cloth savings was around 30 lbs, for a total estimated weight savings of around 290 lbs.
For guys glassing hullsides, please take note of a few pointers available in the photo that Shortpants posted.
1) You will notice a darker line 3' wide along the floor level of the boat. We intentionally precut the material to create the overlap at floor level. It mitigates the tendency to have a hard line when you install the deck, and makes it easier to fair in the 1708 and mat that will be used to glass in the deck. Just make sure not to have it extend above the deck level, or it will make fairing harder down the road. It is easier to wet out the narrower rolls than one big roll extending from chine to sheerline. This little step costs nothing to do and saves time in laying down the material, and future fairing and finish work.
2) When glassing multiple layers of material around chines, stagger the overlaps beyond the chine. You will often see folks starting the edge of the glass in the chine corner. This is like looking a gift horse in the mouth when you can extend an extra 2 inches on each successive layer beyond the chine corner and onto the hull bottom. Each laminate will extend 2 layers farther, so after 3 lams you will have a 6 inch overlap beyond the chine. This creates a lot of strength in the hull sides and bottom for very little extra material and a few minutes extra work.
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Eugene,
Just good lam schedule philosophy right there... :thumright: :thumright: :thumright:
And the bit about excessive heat generation and print through...well done, sir!!
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Good stuff, thanks for the great tech info Eugene :thumright:
Thanks shortpants. It was a great video! The best part was watching Bruce in action :cheers: The girls were squealing like a bunch of twelve year olds at a Justin Bieber show :lol:
The good news is now you'll have a boat you can depend on, rides good, looks good, and will be issue free for a LONG time.
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Stopped by Shipoke over the weekend to have a look at the boat. Glad to report not only is the boat looking great but so is Eugene's eye! Here are a few pics sent to me by Eugene past week or so. There are more but will just post these to show progress.
(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m124/tailhuntr/73Aqua%20redo%20of%20redo/IMG_20121030_162821.jpg)
(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m124/tailhuntr/73Aqua%20redo%20of%20redo/IMG_20121030_160558.jpg)
(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m124/tailhuntr/73Aqua%20redo%20of%20redo/IMG_20121031_094122-1.jpg)
(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m124/tailhuntr/73Aqua%20redo%20of%20redo/IMG_20121101_110605.jpg)
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We are plugging away on Shortpant's 22.2, and it's coming along nicely. Since he is boatless for now, we offered to let him run one of our 14 ft demo boats to feed the fishing sickness. He sent this picture of a nice doormat that he snagged yesterday.
(http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/ab19/group_w_bench/shortpantsflounder.jpg)
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I stopped by Shipoke last Friday. The rebuild of the (alleged) rebuild is coming along nicely.
That boat will be right when it leaves Shipoke.
Nice flattie you got there Tom. :thumright:
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The guys really appreciated the beer that you dropped off Steve. We really do have some pretty great clients.
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Picture or two to show progress. As always, Eugene and his shop at Shipoke are making the bad experience in which I've gone through a little easier swallow with the manner in which he has treated my wife and I. Each time I have traveled up to take a look at the boat I get more excited then ever and can't wait for it to be completed. In the meantime, Eugene was nice enough to loan an addicted Florida boy one of his Shipoke boats specifically the, "General Lee." (painted in Dukes of Hazzard fashion) It's Shipokes 14 technical skiff powered with a little 25 Tohatsu. It's amazing the positive feedback I've been getting on this boat both on the water and off. People in cars are racing up to me in traffic to ask about it. I didn't get that attention in my Aquasport! Maybe I should just sell that and get a Shipoke and paint it similar. The boat itself has been a blast fishing off of.
(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m124/tailhuntr/73Aqua%20redo%20of%20redo/IMG_20121107_174543.jpg)
(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m124/tailhuntr/73Aqua%20redo%20of%20redo/cap.jpg)
On a sour note, here is a picture of a little fire hazard wired at the OTHER shop.
(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m124/tailhuntr/73Aqua%20redo%20of%20redo/imagejpeg_2.jpg)
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Better to find that little hazard now though
Now that is some serious progress and a loaner boat to get out and fish from in the mean time
Eugene is the man
Capt Matt
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I like the option in the for deck to be able to drop a 5 gal bucket with cast net in.
Things are looking good. If I get time i am going to swing by the shop to see it in person again.
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I know that I probably don't post enough or more pictures like I do but that fact of the matter, I am embarrassed that I was taken to the cleaners by the other shop and am still trying to get excited this time around...that's funny, this time around! How may people have had their boats rebuilt twice in a year? Guess that would be another discussion...Anyway, here is a picture or two. Again, Eugene and the guys at Shipoke have been nothing but the utmost professionals! Looking at Scott's, Grans, rebuild post helped to get me back into it a little so here are some pictures. I will try and post another set or two in a week or so.
(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m124/tailhuntr/73Aqua%20redo%20of%20redo/IMG_20121130_113848-3.jpg)
(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m124/tailhuntr/73Aqua%20redo%20of%20redo/20121201_100411.jpg)
(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m124/tailhuntr/73Aqua%20redo%20of%20redo/IMG_20121115_170821.jpg)
(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m124/tailhuntr/73Aqua%20redo%20of%20redo/IMG_20121205_153700.jpg)
(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m124/tailhuntr/73Aqua%20redo%20of%20redo/IMG_20121203_131643.jpg)
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looks like a ground wire got crushed by the nut/screw holding the battery switch in...
that transom looks sick!
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Sweet!!
That transom is deluxe.
You are not alone in getting your rear-end handed to you in boat-land, my friend. I bought the T shirt :salut:
We may end up a little upside-down....but we'll have a couple of sweet rides :thumright:
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looks like a ground wire got crushed by the nut/screw holding the battery switch in...
that transom looks sick!
Basically...
And the other shop did that? Shame, shame, shame... :thumbdown: :thumbdown:
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Boat got painted today and hopefully in the next week or two finished with rigging. Can't wait to see color of boat with both the deck and sides out in the sun.
(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m124/tailhuntr/73Aqua%20redo%20of%20redo/2012-12-07_15-24-42_249.jpg)
(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m124/tailhuntr/73Aqua%20redo%20of%20redo/2012-12-07_15-24-54_27.jpg)
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Beautiful!!
What is the name of the color, tx.
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ahhh, blue! Just kidding, guess it's stars and stripes blue. It looks very familiar to a blue color I had on a flats boat back many years ago, Marlin Blue. To me it looks a little bluer, is bluer a word?, a little more blue..,but should be very nice contrast with the grey deck. Eugene picked the color out so have to give him some props for the color choice(s) of both the hull and deck. I just didn't want any of the colors Hammerhead Livewell tints since those colors really didn't work out that well for me...lol! :wink: If I were to give any advise I wouldn't go with any Hammerhead Livewells colors!..
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It reminds me an old Hewes Bonefisher color from the 70's. Blue with a torquiose splash. nice color!
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Great color combo!
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It reminds me an old Hewes Bonefisher color from the 70's. Blue with a torquiose splash. nice color!
Agreed there, Farley. Remember that blue on the Hewes boats...
Actually, SP, that looks damn close to what we used at PL starting '06 or so, Glory Blue. Think it was an HK gel.
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It does now look like that old Hewes color from the 80's the more I see it. Here it is out in the daylight getting rigged.
(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m124/tailhuntr/73Aqua%20redo%20of%20redo/2012-12-10_14-23-51_807.jpg)
(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m124/tailhuntr/73Aqua%20redo%20of%20redo/2012-12-10_14-23-36_780.jpg)
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like the gray!
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Yep, what PL called Glory Blue. See if I can find a boat with that gel...
Here you go, '09 PL 29 Grand Sport...
(http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh301/seabob4/95163_1.jpg)
Damn close...
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Good lookin' :rendeer:
Eugene said today it is the same color that Dennis Connor ran on his America's Cup yachts. He also said choosing the color was easy...he went straight to sp's wife :lol:
Shrewd!
:santa:
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I stopped by yesterday to see the guys at Shipoke. OMG that boat looks amazing! If I had the funds I would have them re build me another 24 proline.
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The blue is called "Stars and Stripes Blue" on the Awlgrip color chart. Dupont calls it "Patriotic Blue". All of the winning America's Cup boats helmed by Dennis Conner, as well as the first American Cup boat to suffer a loss to the Kiwis, were painted this color. I have fallen in love with this color and my next boat will be painted the same.
I simply suggest colors to clients, or more specifically, their wives. We live by the motto that if Momma ain't happy, ain't nobody happy. I think Shortpant's wife will be very happy with the color combination on this boat.
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I simply suggest colors to clients, or more specifically, their wives. We live by the motto that if Momma ain't happy, ain't nobody happy. I think Shortpant's wife will be very happy with the color combination on this boat.
What Eugene said...
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The color does look similar to the PL or at least close to it. The wife and I were picking out colors and apparently all the colors I chose weren't meeting her approval, all bland colors. I was looking at browns and blue/gray colors not so stand outish. It does look good.
I went ahead and had them put the old or existing rub rail on from before. I was going to get a more usable rub rail that Shipoke uses on their boats but after deciding to do a few more things to the boat kept the $ down by using it. The stainless insert does "bling" it out a little!
I was also trying to decide on tower or no tower. Decided on the no tower for now since I really want to put the boat on the water and see how she floats before adding any extra weight.
Ya Steve, I was thinking that I'd also like to step up to a 24 PL but after having two rebuilds will wait a bit. That extra room would be nice though!
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Just a few more pictures. The aluminum edging was installed to add more "bling." The next picture shows how the hatches will be draining.
(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m124/tailhuntr/73Aqua%20redo%20of%20redo/imagejpeg22.jpg)
(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m124/tailhuntr/73Aqua%20redo%20of%20redo/imagejpeg_2-1.jpg)
(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m124/tailhuntr/73Aqua%20redo%20of%20redo/image21.jpg)
You can tell by all the corners and the finish work the level of craftsmanship that Shipoke is putting into the boat! :thumleft:
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Where's the fuel fill? :scratch:
Edit: I believe I see it now, midship port side.
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Where's the fuel fill? :scratch:
port side it looks like (first pic) Ive always thought thats correct side for it, considering about all pickup trucks i know of have "port side" fills too..
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Ya know, that's exactly why we put it there. But guess where my fuel fill is on my Xterra? That's right, opposite side.! Oh well, I'd buy a new truck but can's afford it after going through this, twice!
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The next picture shows how the hatches will be draining.
(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m124/tailhuntr/73Aqua%20redo%20of%20redo/imagejpeg_2-1.jpg)
You can tell by all the corners and the finish work the level of craftsmanship that Shipoke is putting into the boat! :thumleft:[/quote]
I am so happy that Shortpants and Mrs. Shortpants (incidentally, he REALLY married up) are getting excited about the boat after all that they have been through prior to bringing it to Shipoke.
I thought I would take the opportunity to mention a couple of tips to DIY rebuilders that may be helpful. You will notice in the above picture of the aft casting deck hatch that the front drain hole running from the forward casting deck hatch runs into the drip channel of the aft hatch, and then down the stainless 1/2" drain. The 1/2" drain runs to a brass flare fitting at the intersection of the floor and casting deck bulkhead. While this may seem like an odd configuration for drains when you can simply have recesses on the casting deck to serve as drains, think about what happens with seagrass from a castnet. Above hatch drain channels act as catch basins for seagrass, and the channels are always full of grass. That is why we prefer to run hatch drains under the deck. It is not right or wrong, just a suggestion to enhance practical use of the boat.
Another tip is to run fillets of hard fairing putty along all the corners to create a radiused joint along any joints prior to priming. You will notice that Seamark, Gran's builder in NC, employed the same sort of radiused corners on Miss Delmarva. Most builders do this out of practice, as new boats pulled from molds have radiused corners and it is commonplace when tooling. Hard corners make for difficult pulling of parts from molds. Just as there is a practical purpose to radiused corners for parts pulled from molds, on rebuilds it gives the rebuild the finished look as if the rebuild parts had been pulled from a mold. While this takes a little extra time and finish work, I think it well worth the effort.
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Ya know, that's exactly why we put it there. But guess where my fuel fill is on my Xterra? That's right, opposite side.! Oh well, I'd buy a new truck but can's afford it after going through this, twice!
It's on the opposite side because it's an import.
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Not to mention, Eugene, that tight radii are quite often the source for air entrapment, especially at the OEM level, where QC AND direct supervision are often lacking. Soft radii are easier to roll out, get the air out, as well as easier to pull...
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This is an exemplary build. You all should be proud.
And not too early to say...Merry Christmas :rendeer:
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Well, have finally gotten the boat from the shop to run it a few days to gets the kinks out. Got back to the house late last night and managed a few pictures.
(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m124/tailhuntr/73Aqua%20redo%20of%20redo/20121231_180846.jpg)
(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m124/tailhuntr/73Aqua%20redo%20of%20redo/20121231_180852.jpg)
(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m124/tailhuntr/73Aqua%20redo%20of%20redo/20121231_180928.jpg)
(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m124/tailhuntr/73Aqua%20redo%20of%20redo/20121231_180935.jpg)
Eugene did a great job with the switch panel keeping it a surprise between my wife and him until I first saw it yesterday. Very nice job and a touching tribute to Fallen officers. :cheers:
Will take some more pictures and upload later.
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Absolutely gorgeous.
You have a lot to be proud of....congratulations!
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Niiiiice :!:
Congrats :salut:
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It's those special touches that matter the most :cheers: She is a beaut...
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Tell us more about the back-lit switch panel :thumright: tx
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The switch panel is backlit with light blue lights. Looks very nice at night. Eugene would be able to give you specifics on it. I do like the pull out switches very much after running the boat today for a short bit. Boat ran very nice but getting used to the Morse shifter is a bit of a learning curve. Went to put it in neutral and hey, moved the fuel shifter into neutral and pushed the boat forward! Ooops, other side of Morse control! Wouldn't have been so bad but went to Tarpon Point Bar on the water at the marina to get gas and some guy flagged me down to give him a ride to his plane anchored a little ways off from the bar in the water. Guess bar had a big speed boat gimmick today. So, went to drop him off and when I hit neutral, almost ran his plane over...hahahahahehehehe. Im sure he you know what in his pants!!!!!! Caught it in time but also had my daughters new beau on the boat with us. I'm the big boating guy that almost ran into a plane on the water...oh, fun fun!!!!! I did not even have a drink today. Told her beau not to tweet this.
(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m124/tailhuntr/73Aqua%20redo%20of%20redo/20130101_172820.jpg)
(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m124/tailhuntr/73Aqua%20redo%20of%20redo/20130101_173139.jpg)
Also, I do have a set of the Stainless Aquasport badges, same ones Gran has, that I had on the boat before that I may be interested in selling. Let me know. Think going to keep the boat looking a little cleaner this time plus I told Eugene to go crazy with Shipoke stickers to advertise for him. When I take the boat back I'm sure he will pretty much put a wrap on the boat with the stickers only!!!
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Hey, the guy with the plane got what he paid for :lol:
I'll ask Eugene about the switch panel...looks custom engraved.
That console is HOT :thumright:
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I tell you what I like, Tom, the recessed console latches on the sides...that is excellent work! Well done Eugene!!
It is Captain Tom, correct? :wink:
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Tell us more about the back-lit switch panel :thumright: tx
When I first met Tom, he explained that this restored 22.2 was supposed to be his way of unwinding with fellow officers and forgetting some of the tragedies that he and his fellow officers dealt with last year. He lost 2 fellow officers and close friends in a brutal St. Pete shooting. Tom is a good egg, and frequently takes other officers on free charters to get them on the water. Unfortunately, the first restoration at the "other shop" turned into yet another source of frustration; the furthest thing from a way to get on the water with friends to forget about things. He was at the point of just cutting his losses and giving up on the boat.
His lovely wife, Karen, worked with us to design a panel to help him remember some of the reasons he originally wanted to build this boat. The badge is the officer mourning logo. We had the carbon panel CNC machined with the logo and the custom inscription. These are the same type of panels that we build for Shipokes utilizing sealed Cole Hersee switches. The push/pull switches, coupled with the backlit carbon panel is a nice mix of tradition and technology. We have original Shipokes from the 70s and 80s that come to us for restorations with the original Cole Hersee switches still working 20-30 years later.
The panel was a nice surprise for Tom, and we are really happy that he likes it. It is our very small way at Shipoke of expressing our thanks to Tom and the other officers in our community that put themselves in harms way every day for our safety.
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Nice work Eugene! :salut:
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Eugene,
We here in the bay area are only too familiar with the tragic incedences that have befallen the St. Pete PD, as well as other agencies in the area. I may not like the PoPo sometimes, but I am always respectful, as, we all know, today's beat may be the last one they patrol...
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Tom,
The boat looks really nice. The lighted panel is a very nice touch.
I hope you will now get years of enjoyment out of a very well built ride.
You deserve it after what you have been through.
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I was headed to Tarpon Point New Year's Day also. I was under the Cortez bridge when the go-fast boats ripped past me. Needles to say, they all beat me to TP and there was no room at the inn by the time I got there! Sorry I missed seeing your boat in person; it sure looks good in your pics!
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(http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j384/charliecowin/image-1_zps7c0f2a2a.jpg)"
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(http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j384/charliecowin/image-1_zps0756e602.jpg)
Off Egmont Key
(http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j384/charliecowin/image-1_zps993ce1ab.jpg)
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Loaded with bikes for exploring treasure islands...
(http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j384/charliecowin/image-1_zpsb58fc72b.jpg)
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I was headed to Tarpon Point New Year's Day also. I was under the Cortez bridge when the go-fast boats ripped past me. Needles to say, they all beat me to TP and there was no room at the inn by the time I got there! Sorry I missed seeing your boat in person; it sure looks good in your pics!
them go fast boats was the new years day fun run i was supposed to be in it with my neighbor on his 35 cigarette but i was sicker than hell all this week and he said last minute the group was supposed to go on his friends 39 nor-tech center console with quad 300 vrods, but everyone was still undecided...
if you saw this boat, that was them
(http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/548043_109534585864987_741831077_n.jpg)
this is my neighbors 35 cigarette cafe racer, ive been on it quite a few times
http://youtu.be/weXoZGJDTwg (http://youtu.be/weXoZGJDTwg)
(http://www.fordtruckclub.net/forum/photopost/files/2/2/4/nicks_boat.jpg)
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I have seen shortpants' 222 multiple times at shipoke, and it is stunning...he has got to be so excited! The attention to detail that Eugene has is amazing, from the type of resin they only use to the exact placement of where customers want their deck hardware installed..they really seem to go above and beyond...
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BTW Tom,
I'm interested in buying your badges if you decide to sell them.
Thanks,
Charlie
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Necessary, yep! Let me know, pm me your number and you can take a look at them. Still in great condition.
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Unfortunately, the boat is for sale. I'm going to be moving in a different direction and have decided to sell. I do enjoy the boat and she rides like a dream but,.......wife and I have become empty nesters and will be traveling more and don't really have time to use her. Please PM me if INTERESTED and I will fill you in on the details. She does not have a tower but is ready for one!
Shortpants
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Someone is going to get a VERY nice 22-2. Best of luck on the sale...stick around, you're a great member! :thumright:
(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m124/tailhuntr/73Aqua%20redo%20of%20redo/20121231_180846.jpg)
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Hey Shortpants,
From one blue to another (green actually :mrgreen: ) congrats to seeing the finish line. It shows the light at the end of the tunnel is not a freight train coming, but the finish line even if its still a little down the road. Be Safe and enjoy the next step when you get there.
Oh did you come down to Charlotte after Charlie? If so we might have worked together.
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Hey Shortpants,
From one blue to another (green actually :mrgreen: ) congrats to seeing the finish line. It shows the light at the end of the tunnel is not a freight train coming, but the finish line even if its still a little down the road. Be Safe and enjoy the next step when you get there.
Oh did you come down to Charlotte after Charlie? If so we might have worked together.
Thanks 86Aqua! I'm in the drop now and my wife only has a few more years to teach. It felt so good when my youngest daughter after leaving UNF (wasn't her passion! hunh?) decided to enlist in the Navy and has left the house!!! She's on her way to Japan in a month. Woohoo!!!!! Now, time for the wife and I to enjoy ourselves.
Shorts
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Hey Shortpants,
From one blue to another (green actually :mrgreen: ) congrats to seeing the finish line. It shows the light at the end of the tunnel is not a freight train coming, but the finish line even if its still a little down the road. Be Safe and enjoy the next step when you get there.
Oh did you come down to Charlotte after Charlie? If so we might have worked together.
Thanks 86Aqua! I'm in the drop now and my wife only has a few more years to teach. It felt so good when my youngest daughter after leaving UNF (wasn't her passion! hunh?) decided to enlist in the Navy and has left the house!!! She's on her way to Japan in a month. Woohoo!!!!! Now, time for the wife and I to enjoy ourselves.
Shorts
With a new 22-2 !
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Fritz, I went a little East of me to the Arcadia area to assist with some of the roads that were blocked. I was cutting down trees with the chain saw which no one should allow me to handle...lol!
The wife wants an RV and really, so do I which is the reason for the sale we can travel more.
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tom, one old piece of your boat is making its home in mine with thanks to eugene. :thumright:
look familiar? :cheers:
(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a148/recklesabandon727/1968%2022-2%20flatback%20rebuild/IMG_20140422_135842.jpg)
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That's funny! I think that hatch was the only thing that H****rHe*d boats used that wasn't crap! I think I have the hinges somewhere in my garage. I will look and if I find them, your welcome to them. I also have some nice pull up cleats from Gemlux if interested?
Shorts
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Now don't talk about Tommy that way, Tom... :wink:
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That's funny! I think that hatch was the only thing that H****rHe*d boats used that wasn't crap! I think I have the hinges somewhere in my garage. I will look and if I find them, your welcome to them. I also have some nice pull up cleats from Gemlux if interested?
Shorts
lol. it's funny, they used plywood in the hatch lid, but nidacore for the casting deck. after i shortened and trimmed the deck down to fit how i liked, the hatch lid weighs the same if not more than the casting deck :shock:
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The Gemlux pull-ups are deluxe, what Eugene sent and we installed on my mess. He swears by them, says they won't rattle at idle like the Accons.
Don't know about the Accons...but the Gemlux (Southco's) are silent at idle.
That product was tough to source. Google it...you can't find much.
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Scott,
Yours are Southco/Orcas, not Gemlux. The Gem ones rattle and hum like a U2 concert.
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Eugene...good to see you! :thumright:
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Scott,
Yours are Southco/Orcas, not Gemlux. The Gem ones rattle and hum like a U2 concert.
Thanks bro.
So hard to remember the brands and the good from the bad. At least I had the names spelled correctly :lol:
Back to the Accons.....understand they also "cross-talk" and chatter.
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The gems I have that were on the boat previously were the pull up ones and not the pop-up ones. While they were on the boat, I did not have any issues with them beside the aft two that were modified by Tommy at Hammerhead. What I mean by modified is, he cut two of the bolt shanks down because when he installed them he put them too close to transom and didn't account for the angle. So basically those two were just held on by a thread. Got lucky that it never became an issue! The ones I have left are all in good shape and can tell you they never rattled. A good friend of mine has the pop-up ones and they do rattle. It would be a good bargain to anyone who would like to purchase them! I do like the Soutco/Orca ones now but sometimes find they are hard to pull up and also when docking places with a heavier-thicker dock line I find they are two small to tie up with.....
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Sold! New owner got an heck of a deal!
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Congrats/condolences Shortpants. That is a beautiful boat, I' sure you will miss her as much as the new owner enjoys her!