Classic AquaSport
Aquasport Mechanicals - things that need a wrench, screwdriver or multimeter => Engines & engine woes => Topic started by: aqua719 on January 29, 2009, 11:10:56 AM
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1986 osprey with an 1992 Evinrude 200XP. I brought the boat to a local mechanic for what I thought was going to be some minor stuff, to replace the hydraulic steering seals and to check out the timing,(it has been running a rough). The problem is that he came back to tell me that someone had broken the ends of toothpicks off inside the carbs, not sure if it was the jets or really where it was, but said someone did that to fatten it up and messed with the timing to get it to run decent and in the process broke the timing arm. on top of that, says the voltage regulator is bad and not charging, as well as no tach. Need a another opinion!!! :scratch:
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Where to start :?:
Toothpicks in the carbs. Haven't heard that before. If they're in there, they need to come out.
Voltage regulators do go bad, many times from having loose battery connections (read wing nuts).
Many things can make a motor run rough.
Here's a good place to gain valuable insight into your motor.http://bbcboards.zeroforum.com/zeroforum?id=51
Read all the rules before posting. They've been helpful when I work on my 'Rude. :thumright:
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How mechanicly inclined are you?
There are some simple tests you can do for the electrical issues.
Carbs are not all that hard to rebuild.
The timing pickups (adjustment knobs) get brittle and do break, not to hard to change.
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have done work on my old chevy block, but really don't know much about marine motors, this is my first and still learning. found a link online for the parts, service, and owners manuels, and was going to start there. In addition to the carb problems and the voltage regulator gone bad, it drained one of my batterys, the power pac is on the fritz, bad thermostats, and the motor won't come out of quickstart mode. So, if I have to put around $800 - 1000 into the motor, does it make more sense to look at repowering now? rather then dump $$ into the old one?
:scratch: :?
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How long have you had the boat/motor? From what you're saying, repairing a motor of this age really isn't cost effective. If the power head were new then maybe. If you had plenty of spare parts then well, maybe. Your motor burns 15-18gph. If you use your boat year round, between the repair costs and fuel, repowering would be very cost effective. Most new 200hp DI 2 strokes and four stroke are burining 9-10gph. Doesn't take long for the savings to add up. Also, a newer motor will raise the value of the boat and should be more reliable. Check eBay, there were quite a few motors in Fl for sale.
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have done work on my old chevy block, but really don't know much about marine motors, this is my first and still learning. found a link online for the parts, service, and owners manuels, and was going to start there. In addition to the carb problems and the voltage regulator gone bad, it drained one of my batterys, the power pac is on the fritz, bad thermostats, and the motor won't come out of quickstart mode. So, if I have to put around $800 - 1000 into the motor, does it make more sense to look at repowering now? rather then dump $$ into the old one?
:scratch: :?
It sounds to me as if you're trying to rationalize buying a new motor. I know, because I do it all the time.
That said, a new motor, controls and gauges will cost some big coin these days and you still have an old hull. You could look for a newer model 'rude and try and utilize as much of your existing controls as possible along with the prop/s you may have.
What are you thinking of re-powering with (let's pretend money doesn't count)?
A new 2 stroke or 4 stroke?
Is your transom up to the task of a heavier motor?
Will you use the boat enough to justify the cost?
If it were me, the very first thing I'd do is a compression check on your existing motor. Ask your mechanic if he has done one, or do it yourself.
This is going to be a base indicator in determining which route to take. The parts and problems you have listed on your motor are common ailments usually caused by little use and poor maintenance. They are easily remedied and cost a fraction compared to re-powering. Not pointing fingers, just stating fact.
Good luck and ain't owning a boat grand? :roll:
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Good luck and ain't owning a boat grand? :roll:
Break
Out
Another
Thousand
Sorry, couldn't control myself. :wink:
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Here's a few newer motors to look at. While not new, they may be a better base to work with. Your 1986 225hp is a 2.6 liter and only made for that year. 1987s were 2.7 liter and 1988 an on were 3.0 liter. Electronics are the same.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2000-Joh ... iesQ5fGear (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2000-Johnson-Omc-Evinrude-200-HP-outboard-motor_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ72Q3a1171Q7c66Q3a2Q7c65Q3a12Q7c39Q3a1Q7c240Q3a1318Q7c301Q3a0Q7c293Q3a1Q7c294Q3a50QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem270336264925QQitemZ270336264925QQptZBoatQ5fPartsQ5fAccessoriesQ5fGear)
1990 model that may be an inexpensive way to go
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1990-Joh ... iesQ5fGear (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1990-Johnson-Omc-200-HP-outboard-motor_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ72Q3a1171Q7c66Q3a2Q7c65Q3a12Q7c39Q3a1Q7c240Q3a1318Q7c301Q3a0Q7c293Q3a1Q7c294Q3a50QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem270335966609QQitemZ270335966609QQptZBoatQ5fPartsQ5fAccessoriesQ5fGear)
Mercury Motors
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1996-Mer ... iesQ5fGear (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1996-Mercury-200-HP-outboard-motor_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ72Q3a1171Q7c66Q3a2Q7c65Q3a12Q7c39Q3a1Q7c240Q3a1318Q7c301Q3a1Q7c293Q3a1Q7c294Q3a50QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem270335831774QQitemZ270335831774QQptZBoatQ5fPartsQ5fAccessoriesQ5fGear)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Mercury- ... iesQ5fGear (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Mercury-200_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ72Q3a1171Q7c66Q3a2Q7c65Q3a12Q7c39Q3a1Q7c240Q3a1318Q7c301Q3a1Q7c293Q3a1Q7c294Q3a50QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem290292549562QQitemZ290292549562QQptZBoatQ5fPartsQ5fAccessoriesQ5fGear)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2001-Mer ... iesQ5fGear (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2001-Mercury-200-HP-outboard-25-Clean-1-year-Warranty_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ72Q3a1171Q7c66Q3a2Q7c65Q3a12Q7c39Q3a1Q7c240Q3a1318Q7c301Q3a0Q7c293Q3a1Q7c294Q3a50QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem130283220393QQitemZ130283220393QQptZBoatQ5fPartsQ5fAccessoriesQ5fGear)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2002-MER ... iesQ5fGear (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2002-MERCURY-200-hp-25-Outboard-Motor_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ72Q3a1171Q7c66Q3a2Q7c65Q3a12Q7c39Q3a1Q7c240Q3a1318Q7c301Q3a0Q7c293Q3a1Q7c294Q3a50QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem120370751602QQitemZ120370751602QQptZBoatQ5fPartsQ5fAccessoriesQ5fGear)
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Your 1986 225hp is a 2.6 liter and only made for that year.
I though he had a 1992 200xp. :?
His hull is an 86.
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My bad. Brain and fingers were on two different pages!
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it's a 1992 200XP, If $ were no object, I would go to a bigger boat! I use the boat year round at least twice a month since i'm here in FL so I guess I'm trying to justify going new. the transom is solid and could handle the weight, but when I look at the big picture, I think I might be better fixing the few things with this motor. He did a compression check and all cylinders are strong, the lower end was recently serviced. your right, in that the volt reg, power pac, soleniod are things that do go bad with time and neglect. all these are original parts, so I guess it's about time. So for a few hundred in parts, I'll run it till it dies and repower then. Thanks for all the input!
(http://i547.photobucket.com/albums/hh441/aqua719/DSC03140.jpg)
(http://i547.photobucket.com/albums/hh441/aqua719/DSC03187.jpg)
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Power pack is about 350 or so. Bought one 5 years ago.
Timer base is about 350 also. Bought one 3 years ago.
Stator is about 400. Last time I looked.
If the motor is not charging, check the output of the stator. No tach usually means the stator is shot. Tach signal is the gray wire and the tach runs off the charging side of the alternator pulses. There are two yellow (I believe) wires going to the regulator from the stator. Disconnect them from the terminal block and with the engine running you should have 20+ volts AC on the two wires. The regulator changes the AC to DC. If you don't have that voltage coming out of the stator then it's shot. Look at the stator under the flywheel, is there brown goo coming out any where? Brown goo is not good. Check the magnets under the flywheel also. The do come loose.
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it's a 1992 200XP, So for a few hundred in parts, I'll run it till it dies and repower then. Thanks for all the input!
The XP was the "HO" of its day and those motors were "loop charged" (hence known as "loopers") so when its running right, it should fly. "Loopers" are very finicky about running at the proper temp. I would replace the thermostats (small ticket item) while you got it on the bench.
Good luck.
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ok, replaced the thermostats, both were shot, now the motor comes out of quick start, power pac seems to be working and the regulator is charging, still no tach. checked the gray wire and connections. :scratch: Took apart the carbs and removed the toothpicks stuck in the idle jets. Now the motor won't run. put the toothpicks back in for an experiment and it starts right up and purrs like a kitten.. ???? What are the jet sizes that sre suposed to be in there? The idles are 28 and the seconds are 32. Never heard that the engine runs better with toopicks in the jets! :?:
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Ask this guy - http://www.themarinedoctor.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl
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ok, replaced the thermostats, both were shot, now the motor comes out of quick start, power pac seems to be working and the regulator is charging, still no tach. checked the gray wire and connections. :scratch: Took apart the carbs and removed the toothpicks stuck in the idle jets. Now the motor won't run. put the toothpicks back in for an experiment and it starts right up and purrs like a kitten.. ???? What are the jet sizes that sre suposed to be in there? The idles are 28 and the seconds are 32. Never heard that the engine runs better with toopicks in the jets! :?:
This may not be your carb but you can search the site for your model http://www.ishopmarine.com/ishop/jsp/AsplIsmCcatViewBase.jsp?&lvlCode=5&pCode=C0043051&path=BRP~A0000003~M0002683~M0002703~M0002707~C0043051&isFromCMS=false&hideAdd2CartButton=&isStandAlone=&is4CmsShop=&reqln=Unknown&reqem=Unknown&reqph=Unknown&reqFor=29&req4Browse=1&docId=&docName=&isForSupStore=true&cCatFilter=BRP&eCatSupFldr=supplier-100-005-EJ
Tell me what # number "orifice" has the toothpicks (or whatever # has the pick).
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(http://i547.photobucket.com/albums/hh441/aqua719/DSC03745-1.jpg)
(http://i547.photobucket.com/albums/hh441/aqua719/DSC03746.jpg)
the toothpicks are in the top jet which is stamped 28 the bottom jet is open and stamped 32.
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Would you mind e-mailing those pics to me and your engine model #?
Thanks
rb53@comcast.net
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"Plugging these tubes with toothpicks will greatly enrich the mixture, approximately 10% to 20%"
another opinion from a different forum that sounds logical...??? :scratch:
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"Plugging these tubes with toothpicks will greatly enrich the mixture, approximately 10% to 20%"
another opinion from a different forum that sounds logical...??? :scratch:
No, that's true.
Those are air mixture orifices. The toothpicks are in the "mid-range" orifice (28). The bottom is the idle speed orifice (#32).
It would appear that the former owner had problems with the fuel mixture running too lean (too much air/to little fuel) and instead of tracking down the cause, he (or his mechanic) cut off the air supply and thus enriched the fuel mix. Next step is to see where the lack of fuel is coming from.
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looks like it's time to order the carb kits... :roll:
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looks like it's time to order the carb kits... :roll:
That's a great place to start.
This is the proper link for your carbs. Please note the lower carb in each group has different main jet from the top carb.http://www.ishopmarine.com/ishop/jsp/AsplIsmCcatViewBase.jsp?&lvlCode=5&pCode=C0042992&path=BRP~A0000003~M0002683~M0002703~M0002705~C0042992&isFromCMS=false&hideAdd2CartButton=&isStandAlone=&is4CmsShop=&reqln=Unknown&reqem=Unknown&reqph=Unknown&reqFor=29&req4Browse=1&docId=&docName=&isForSupStore=true&cCatFilter=BRP&eCatSupFldr=supplier-100-005-EJ
You won't get the jets in the kits, shouldn't need them.
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Thanks for all the help! really appreciate it! With some TLC I think I should still get a couple more years of use. :salut:
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Just read this post and im well ahead of you. I have an 86 evinrude 225, same carbs. The toothpick thing is to richen up the mixture. Those jets meter air instead of fuel, so the typical opposite applies: smaller jet=more fuel. Basically what you have is an air leak somewhere, so to remedy it the former owner richened up the mixture. Not an uncommon issue with those motors. Now the fun part... finding it. Here is my journey as written on a blog on iboats.com... this thread will save you alot of time:
http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php ... t=225+flat (http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=285748&highlight=225+flat)
What I ended up doing in the end was rejetting leaner. She runs fine. I still have to check for air leaks by painting every joint with soapy water and looking for bubbles. I still suspect an air leak or crack somewhere. Even though I have fixed the problem I am yet to find the cause.
By the way, Iboats.com is an awesome site for motor issues. Really good stuff with plenty of knowledgeable people chiming in.... kind of like our site here! :D
By the way... as long as you have good compression, the rest of the parts/issues mentioned are just typical maintainence items... stators, rectifiers, power packs.... been there, done that. Its all part of keeping the Rude's happy and running. Try paying for (or finding) parts for a Yamaha or a Honda and you will be happy you kept your Evinrude.
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Just read this post and im well ahead of you. I have an 86 evinrude 225, same carbs. The toothpick thing is to richen up the mixture. Those jets meter air instead of fuel, so the typical opposite applies: smaller jet=more fuel. Basically what you have is an air leak somewhere, so to remedy it the former owner richened up the mixture. Not an uncommon issue with those motors. Now the fun part... finding it. Here is my journey as written on a blog on iboats.com... this thread will save you alot of time:
http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php ... t=225+flat (http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=285748&highlight=225+flat)
What I ended up doing in the end was rejetting leaner. She runs fine. I still have to check for air leaks by painting every joint with soapy water and looking for bubbles. I still suspect an air leak or crack somewhere. Even though I have fixed the problem I am yet to find the cause.
By the way, Iboats.com is an awesome site for motor issues. Really good stuff with plenty of knowledgeable people chiming in.... kind of like our site here! :D
By the way... as long as you have good compression, the rest of the parts/issues mentioned are just typical maintainence items... stators, rectifiers, power packs.... been there, done that. Its all part of keeping the Rude's happy and running. Try paying for (or finding) parts for a Yamaha or a Honda and you will be happy you kept your Evinrude.
Thanks for the input, I read your post on iboats. looks like you did alot work trying to find the problem. I think I might also try the soapy water to see if there are any air leaks. I am still going to do the carb kits because it's been probably 3-5 years and I'm sure there is some build up. Have good compression on all the cylinders, so i'll fix the minor things to keep this evinrude running as long as I can. Just curious? how fast does yours go? GPS said I was at 52 mph with out trimming the motor up at all, might be able to get 2-3 more w/ trimming. the thing is I use it to fish, so I don't need it that fast. burns to much gas!
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Id love to tell you... but I sold the motor saturday! I had a crappy GPS until santa brought me a Lowrance 522... so I would have been able to tell you how fastnow but not then... but all I can say is I hit the throttle and that damn thing took off... and about 4 seconds later the tears would start streaming horizontal from the wind in my face. It was FAST!! I wish I could have known before I sold it. The only difference between your 200 and a 225 is the carbs. Be on the lookout for a same year set of 225 carbs and you will have just that.. a 225 (or at least research wht size jets your year 225 had and make sure the carbs you buy have the same size... Evinrude changed the jet sizes around on some late 80's models). Ive done well with carbs on Ebay. By the way I have a 1988 175 Evinrude that is taking its place. The 225 was just way too heavy for my 200CCP... the self bailing deck would start to flood as I stood near the transom because of the weight... and I agree with you... im just fishing...I dont need a rocket ship... BUT... if my hull was designed for it I would have kept the 225.