Classic AquaSport
Aquasport Mechanicals - things that need a wrench, screwdriver or multimeter => Fuel tanks and anything about fuel systems => Topic started by: Fishhyren11 on December 17, 2008, 09:24:30 AM
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I was leaking a lot of gas into the bildge at the end of this last season (a couple gallons).
So right then I said it was time to put it up until I could find the problem so I don't blow up!
I noticed that when I filled the tank to the top, the filler vent wouldn't overflow, the gas came right to the top of the fill-line.
I figured the vent hose had come undone, so I opened the little portal on the backside of the filler and everything looked good there, so I figured it broke off at the tank.
I'm recently the new owner and I don't have much history on the boat. The boat was in fairly good condition with the exception that the previous owner had put in a t-top and then removed it, filling the holes with silicone.
Of course the silicone shrank and let water in, and held it there. So I had a little rot in a couple areas, but I seem to have caught it early.
I dried it out and treated it with CPES and filled the holes with filler expoxy.
So now I'm on to the tank.
I removed the center console and got to the tank yesterday.
It was dirty, but suprisingly good condition. It looked like some work had been done, but was probably the original tank.
Mostly dirty, with a little pitting.
Everything looked sound except the filler hose was slightly clogged and when I went to remove it, snapped with corrosion.
I will probably just get the tank cleaned up and repaired but I had a few questions.
- Should I paint the tank w/rustoleum or something similiar?
- Should I drill a hole in the tank coffin to allow water to drain out into the hull??
I noticed some standing water in the coffin, but there is no hole for it to drain!?? - HOW, OH HOW am I going to replace the filler and vent tubing that appears to be foamed in???
I'm probably going to try to find someone who can do this part for me that doesn't know better before quoting me...
Any pictures or suggestions on how to do this myself are GREATLY appreciated!
Has any ever tried running a second hose through the inside of the old ones (obviously a slightly smaller diameter)??
Thank you!
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I drilled holes in the coffin that held my tank in place for that same reason. I would suggest that after you drill the holes, put some kind of sealant around the holes (5200 would probably work , or glass em' , but that's such a pain ) to prevent the wood from rotting.
I would think that trying to find hoses that would fit inside of your existing vent hose would be close to impossible, and the smaller hose probably wouldn't fit around the fittings on your tank. I would try attaching a new hose to the older one via lots of duct tape and pull the new one into place by pulling the older one out through the outside of the boat... does that make sense? That's what I did, and it worked well.
Painting the tank couldn't hurt
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I don't think I'm going to be able to move the tubes- they feel completely foamed in-
Was yours foamed in? If so, how did you get it out!?
I was going to use a reducer on both ends with the smaller diameter inside the other hose- this would allow me to fit over the the filler and the nipple on the tank.
There was one other person on here a while back with a 170 that did manage to get the old ones out and the new ones in, but I can't seem to find the thread!
You're help is really appreciated, this is such a pain!
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No, mine weren't foamed in, but I think it's worth a shot. I would try pulling the vent off the outside of the hull and see if you can get the hose to budge at all from the outside... or try pulling from the inside... probably someone with a 170 would know the set up better than me.
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I replaced the tank and hoses in my 77' 170 this year. The good news was my hoses were not foamed in.
I first drilled a hole for a 4" inch deck plate on the inside where the deck plate fuel filler and vent is. This allowed me access to the deck screws and hose clamps. I bought a plastic 1-1/2" hose connector and attached the new fuel filler hose to the old one (at the tank end) and taped it up heavily with black vinyl electrical tape. I then started pulling the old hose out and pulling the new hose behind it. It was not easy and took some strength. I repeated the procedure with the vent hose.
Sorry I didn't take any pictures. Hope this helps!
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well, was able to get a light and look in there some, and sure enough, as far down as I could see on the filler hose it was foamed in.
The hose is QUITE stiff now from age, but I was able to push down some and free it from the foam I could see (it's out of reach)
But I can't see the vent hose or where it goes-
I'm going to cut out a portion of the tank's coffin where the lines come in and see if I can see/reach/free anything there.
I might be able to thread a new hose the route kinda used by the middle locker's drain hose to the middle of the coffin.
I looked into running a smaller hose though the old hose, but I can't find A1 USCG rated hose in 1" and I'm leary of not putting A1 rated b/c of insurance and what not, though I know it'd be WAY safter than it is now, and probably better than original spec.
I'm going to take a look at it sometime this week and I'll let you know what I find.
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Guess what?
Today I opened up the fuel tank coffin of my 1985 170. I had been smelling gas every time I fill up the tank, so I suspect a leak somewhere on the top. My goal is to remove the tank and have it either repaired or replaced.
First thing I noticed is that the lid of the coffin (the deck part) was very soft. Closer inspection revealed that the wooden core has completely turned to mulsh. So an unexpected part of the project is born: cleaning up the thing down to the upper skin and re-coring it. :scratch:
Then I started looking at the tank. I still don´t know where the leak is, but I know that most of you will suggest that the tank be pulled out. It is held in place by some sort of SS straps. I´m assuming the tank is not original, but probably is more that 15 yrs old. Does anybody know if it is possible to remove the straps without cutting them? Maybe before removal I´ll just coat it in soap suds and blow thru the fuel fill to see if I can find the leak.
I´ll try and post pics of my progress, but I´ve been very busy lately and don´t know how long this project will take me.
My guess is that the tank will need replacement, given that just making a local repair might be looking for trouble in the near future.
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Miguel , you shouldn't have to cut the straps, they're bolted together(one bolt each) on top of the tank, in the center, once you remove the tank you'll notice that they are also bolted on the side of the tub, mine was set up that way
Marc..
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that's how my setup was too. My tank was slightly pitted but overall ok... There's no drain hole in the tank coffin, so that smell is probably from the hoses, like mine.
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Interesting......My straps are not bolted together on top of the tank. The connection is sort of like a crimp. I´ll try and get a pic for you. There is a drain hole in the front of the tank. That is why I think that the tanks is not original. Most of you guys report no drain holes.....
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Here are the pics.
First a view of the tank with the strap and the fuel sender. The console has already been lowered for the day:
(http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p5/miguellorenzo/P1060763-1.jpg)
Here´s a close up view of the strap connection. No bolts or screws:
(http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p5/miguellorenzo/P1060761.jpg)
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After the third day of pulling and pulling and trying to get out all the foam, I broke down and cut a hole in the floor over the hoses.
I ended up making a 4" hole that will end up being a deck lid, so it won't look horrible (i hope)
Here are a couple shots I took today- the foam was wet, some water and some fuel. The floor was still solid, but I'll inject some CPES in the floor and coating the hole I cut in filler epoxy to seal it all up.
I didn't want to cut the hole, but it appears like it was the best idea I could have done (see all the foam I took out).
(here are links to the pics, it appears my pics were slightly too big to display).
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t178/fishhyren11/2b3edd22.jpg
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t178/fishhyren11/d80cd3d8.jpg
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t178/fishhyren11/2fca8818.jpg
I was able to get the vent hose free today, and I think the other will buge tomorrow, so I'm going to go get new hoses. I'll update hopefully soon.
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Going back over to work on more today, took the tank to get repaired, they refused to work on it.
SO, I have to order a new tank.
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I´ve heard about people encapsulating aluminum tanks in fiberglass. I wonder how this forum feels about that......
In my part of the world, a new aluminum tank is very expensive :pirat:
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I wish I could, I still need some repair on my vent bung.
They won't touch it. Supposedly fiberglass resin isn't compatible with ethenol in the fuel.
The prices I've been quoted on tanks range from $270 - $720!!! If you know someone who does a good job plz let me know. Finding a tank has been a bit frustrating!!!
In other news I manged to get my new fuel lines though today!!! This is HUGE news since it was fully foamed in! Woooooo!!
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Miguel,
I would bet that your leak is coming from underneath the strap/s. That's where I found mine. You really need to pull the tank to see it.
As far as covering the tank in glass, I don't know that fiberglass adheres too well to aluminum and in the long run might not play too well with modern fuels.
If you can't get another aluminum tank, how about a "poly"? You may need to go with two smaller ones. Again, you need to research how well the plastics are doing with new fuels.
Good luck.
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Miguel,
I replaced the tank in my '73 17'. Replaced both the fill & vent. From all the work your putting in it, I vote to do it once & do it right.
I found a local metal fabricator that duplicated the tank I gave him. It was quite a few years ago, but I seem to remember it was fairly reasonable. Under $300.
I've also gone the way of refiberglassing a '84 19' tank. I took it out, spent a few hours sanding every sq. in. of it & applied 2 part liquid steel over the suspect areas. Then I epoxied the whole thing & wrapped it with glass cloth & epoxied it again. Did not replace the hoses as they seemed O.K.
Then the bear. I bought a '84 20'CCP. Pulled the console & tank cover first thing. What a mess. Had a new tank made in Farmingdale, NY. (He was making 2 others identical to mine at the same time) Replacing the hoses was a first class pain in the A#$.
Took over 4 hours of pulling, poking, etc. Finally, cut a 6" hole in the floor over the hoses & was able to remove the soaked filler. Then all went back together just fine. New hoses, glassed up the hole & now working on the console.
There are the 3 I've had experience with. See if you can find a tin-smith that can build you a new alum. tank. You'll be happier with the job in the end.
Questions??? Let me know. Good luck & take your time.
Nighthawk
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would love to know where you had it fabbed because I'm seeing $400-720 for one right now which seems very high for aluminum....
Thanks!
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Here's where I had the 73 Gal tank for the 20' CCP made.
ALLOY METAL WORKS INC., 146 VERDI STREET, FARMINGDALE, NY, 11735, USA, (tel) 631-694-8163, (fax) 631-694-1213. E-mail.
WE MANUFACTURE CUSTOM MARINE FUEL TANKS TO COAST GUARD SPECIFICATIONS MEMBER OF ABYC
Give them a call & tell them the year & model of your boat. They'll tell you what it takes & give you a price.
Hope this helps.
The tank I got was quality with everything needed.
Nighthawk
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I´m having a new tank built using the old one as a template. I´m being quoted 350.00 for the 1/8" 5052 aluminum, 29 gal tank. It comes painted in epoxy primer..... Does not sound that bad after all.
I think I´m going the way of 5200 with frp strips for fastening to the boat. No straps to hold moisture.
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Miguel,
Sounds great. I'm sure your going to enjoy the comfort it was done right.
Nighthawk
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Ordered the new tank last wednesday and was called today to say it is ready (5 bussiness day turnaround). I convinced them to weld 1/4" aluminum strips at 12 inches in center on the bottom for the same price. The tank will be painted with epoxy primer, and any small gap in between the support strips and the bottom of the tank will be filled with a 5200 fillet. It will be very hard for water to stay trapped there. All this for $350.00.... Not bad.
The tank will be glued to the tub with 5200 also. No SS strips, neoprene pads, foam, wooden wedges, or any of the things that I found in there. Hopefully the 5200 will be enough to keep it in place. I'll try and post pics of the tank when I finally get it.
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:thumleft:
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Look forward to finished report & pics. Great price & turnaround time.
Nighthawk
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Here's the tank. It is coated in green epoxy primer.
First pic, top of the tank. Tank is leaning against the boat:
(http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p5/miguellorenzo/P1070934.jpg)
Second pic shows the aluminum strips welded to the bottom of the tank:
(http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p5/miguellorenzo/P1070935.jpg)
Third pic is the clean tub waiting for the tank. Note the hole where the original SS tanks upporting straps came out of.:
(http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p5/miguellorenzo/P1070860.jpg)
Now I just have to find some spare time to finish.....
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Very good looking tank. Should give you years of service.
Thanks for the report.
Nighthawk
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What would you recommend as the best product for sealing the fuel tank tub?
I´m planning on 5200 for the screws. What would you use for the seam between deck and hatch?
I prefer something easy to apply and clean. 5200 is messy!!!
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Miguel,
I used the 5200. Seems to seal better. It is a pain to install.
Patience.
Nighthawk
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Something I did when I re-installed my tank. I used some heavy duty garden hose and cut two lengths running front to back and laid them down on the bottom of the fiberglass coffin for the gas tank. I thought it would keep the tank from lying in any water/moisture that might get in. I did not re-install my metal straps or wood wedges. I put foam around the sides/front and back. Again, I left air pockets/gaps so that no moisture could get trapped along the sides of the tank. It should also allow air around the entire tank.
My 2 cents!
Nate
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I would use 4200
Marc..
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Well, I broke my arm not long after the last post on this, so I hadn't worked on the boat much until now.
I'm back in the swing of things (for the most part), and it's time to get this thing ready to go back out!
I ordered my tank from Phil at Alloy Metal Works today! Looking forward to it!
I had him make it 56 1/2" long (old one was 56") because there's a wooden shim in there now that's about 2 inches wide which I'll remove!
I'll post more when it comes! Now it's time to get the tank coffin cleaned up a bit before it goes in!
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Okay, my new tank is here, and looks great thanks to AlloyMetal Works
Question for all of you with 170s...
You've been using stuff like starboard and 5200 to space/stick the tank to the coffin.
How thick should the starboard be?
Is 1/2" too thick? Will I still be able to fit the lid back on?
Thanks
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My experience:
1. 5200 does not stick to starboard. Use something else, like fiberglass strips. I had my tank fabricator weld 1/4" strips to the bottom.
2. 1/2" is too much. Use 1/4" if you don´t want any problems putting the lid back on.
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Any idea where I can find fiberglass strips?
Thanks!
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I am really late on this one. I am in the process of restoring my 170 and repalcing the tank. I am considering abandoning the original filler, vent and hose and adding either a top filler in the console or a 45 filler on the side of the console. This will entail an inspection plate in the fuel tank cover but it will all be out of the way under the console. Any thoughts good or bad about this option wouold be greatly appreciated.
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I am really late on this one. I am in the process of restoring my 170 and repalcing the tank. I am considering abandoning the original filler, vent and hose and adding either a top filler in the console or a 45 filler on the side of the console. This will entail an inspection plate in the fuel tank cover but it will all be out of the way under the console. Any thoughts good or bad about this option wouold be greatly appreciated.
I don't know exactly how your console looks (pics would help), but I used to have an old Key West 1700 C/C that came from the factory with a side fill on the side of the console. The only pro I can think of with that setup was that it would be easy to replace the fuel lines if need be. The cons were that it was difficult to stretch the gas station hose to the boat unless you were real close to the pumps and usually required you to get in the boat, the O/B was a 2stroker and mixing oil was really messy and required a long transmission style funnel ( I don't trust VRO style oil tanks ), and no matter what I did, if I filled it all the way up, there was always some overfill that ran down the side of my clean console in a gooey 2-strokey oil/gas mix that was hard to clean up. Also, the hoses took up valuable space under the console, and I didn't quite like the idea of having my batteries/electronics right there with the fill/vent hoses... It might be a PITA to replace your fill/vent lines, but I think you'd be happier with the gunwale mounted fill hose.
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My 19-6 had fuel tank straps that bolted together, so it was fairly easy to get out. However I took a fuel tank out of an old Volkswagon camper bus one time that had solid straps around it. I cut the straps then pop rivited in some matching straps where it cut them and bent up some tabs on each end, drilled a hole thru the tabs and could then ran a bolt thru to pull the straps tight. I used an old piece of vinyl siding and cut some strips to run under the straps. Kept them from rubbing on the tank.