Classic AquaSport
Aquasport Model Rebuilds, Mods, Updates and Refreshes => Osprey Style Hull Rebuilds => 165/170/175 Rebuilds => Topic started by: MJB on October 03, 2007, 02:02:01 PM
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Couldn't wait any longer, began my "winter" project last weekend by cutting out the transom. Confirmed what I suspected, transom was wet and rotten. I knew it would be a problem and was part of the plan. What I wasn't sure of was if I had any wet foam in the bilge. Didn't take long to figure that out, it was wet. Wasn't sure if the stringers would be a problem either, confirmed the foam in the aft portion was wet, don't know how far up the stringers yet.
The floor/sole appeared ok, but after finding wet foam and wet stringers I decided I needed to do radical surgery and find out how bad the patient was, so I shimmed the hull, placed a couple straps and braces around the hull to keep the form and cut out the deck. Glad I did, wet foam all the way up both sides of the bilge, so I cleaned all that out. Several spots on the inside of the port stringer had delaminated from the bottom of the bilge which will require repair. I still need to cut the tops of the stringers and check for wet foam, I'll cut in sections and not the whole top off at once. If I'm lucky they may not be wet all the way. Looking at the aft end of the stringers that I did cut away for the transom repair, only about the bottom inch of foam was wet.
I should also add that with the help of this site and it's members, I was prepared for what was in store and none of this was a real surprise.
Couple pics:
First cut with skill saw
(http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa295/mjbosse/Surgery002.jpg)
Next cut with sawzall
(http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa295/mjbosse/Surgery003.jpg)
Sole cutout
(http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa295/mjbosse/Surgery019.jpg)
I did find a few old empty beer cans and a couple broken beer bottles in the bilge along with 3 different anchor/bow lines that had obviouls made their way thru the hole in the anchor locker. And I must also say that once the I cut out the transom and the bilge caught it's first glimpse of sumshine in 31 years, it smelled pretty ripe from the mold and mildew.
I was amazed at a couple things when this was constructed: 1) center stringer/stiffener was not completely wrapped, wood was exposed at transom and in other spots, 2) bottom inside of transom was not completely glassed in and marine plywood was exposed to any water in the bilge from day one.
Plan now is:
1. Transom first
2. Check stringers for water and dig out foam as necessary
3. Recover stringers as needed, fix stringer delamination
4. Plan to add another layer of cloth/resin to the hull bottom to strengthen a bit
5. Replace the deck
With some luck this weekend, I plan to do the transom.
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AWESOME!
May I make a suggestion? If you're going to take the time and effort to add glass to the hull, you may wish to add two... 1 layer of 1808 is good, but two would be better!
Good luck, and please continue posting pictures.
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LilRichard,
I think your right with two additional layers, I've got plenty of 1808 from previous project and it would be easy to add.
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I am assuming your old project was the 285? I don't think I have seen it on CM... you have a few pics?
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That's good stuff - first time I've seen the "puddles" of "stuff" still intact that they plopped on the stringers to bond to the floor.
Keep the pics coming :thumright:
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I am assuming your old project was the 285? I don't think I have seen it on CM... you have a few pics?
You are correct, that was my first project -- rescued it in 1999 -- rewired, replumbed, repainted, repowered, etc and splashed it in 2001 with a filled in transom and bracket. Unfortunately I did not know CM existed (don't know if it was up and running then) and wasn't able to learn from all the experts, if I had I would have paid much closer attention to the original transom and done the glass work differently. Long story short -- last summer 06 had to pull the bracket off and do an entire transom rebuild from the inside. Used coosa board as the core material, beefed up the transom with some knees, tied it all in structurally to the floor/sole and got her back in the water three months later. I've done a lot of different work, but last summer was by far the worst job I've ever undertaken. Cutting, digging, grinding, glassing, grinding, glassing, grinding, sanding, painting, and more sanding and painting June thru Aug in the heat and humidity of a NC summer outside at the boat yard is absolutely no fun!
On CM I've got a few posts username -- MJB or you can search 285. Here's a before and after to save you the trouble.
Before in 1999:
(http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa295/mjbosse/scan0004.jpg)
After Sep 2006:
(http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa295/mjbosse/DockSunsetII.jpg)
As for the 170 and the "puddles of stuff", my kids thought it looked like something else........so far neither are too impressed with my project, they don't quite see the diamond in the rough. But I have know doubt by next spring they'll think differently.
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NICE 285! Man, do you have any "working" pictures as you restored? Did you spray the hull with Imron?
I am soooo sympathetic to your summer of suffering. Seeing as I had to re-string my boat, I did more grinding in this lifetime than I ever could want to do. I think I will stick to smaller refurb projects in the future!
:D
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New transom went in over Columbus Day weekend, I'll try to get some pics up this week.
But I have a question about the console/deck I cut out -- I had planned on cutting out the fuel tank coffin and reusing it in a new deck, but after looking over the old deck I'm wondering if I could just reuse the whole deck & coffin??
I was considering cutting, chipping, grinding out the marine plywood from the backside and leaving the topside, then glass in new marine plywood. Once done, placing the deck back in place.
Would this just be a ridiculus amount of work and easier to go with a whole new deck?? I hate to toss the old deck when it seems like I could reuse.
My biggest concern would be the adhesion of the marine plywood to the old deck glass, but with some buttery resin and mat seems like it might work.
Any thoughts??
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Mike,
I just re-cored the gas tank hatch on my CCP several months ago. It is a very delicate and time consuming job. It was very hard removing the wood from the shell without breaking her but I did it. Mine came out great but now I am noticing "spider webb" cracks are starting to show up on the original skin :evil: I hate that because the skin(non-skid) looked great after the re-core. Still looks good but has the "spider webbing" going on.
If it were me, since you plan to replace the deck anyway, I would just replace the hatch. The only reason that I re-cored mine was the rest of my deck was in good shape and I wanted to keep the original non-skid over the tank.
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jdupree,
What I would do is re-core the deck keeping the old outer skin as well as the re-core the gas tank cover -- not just the tank cover.
Just seems like a waste to trash the entire deck and toss it all out. This may be a lot more work than it is worth.
Thoughts??
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Mike,
Based on how long it takes just to do the hatch, I don't think it would be worth doing. The outer skin is very old, and even if you re-core it you might wind up with it "spider webbing" and/or stress cracking anyway.
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Let me make sure I understand... are you talking about the coffin cover, or the entire deck?
If it's just the cover, you might recore it... but if it's the entire deck, I agree with Jdupree for sure. I would build a new deck and hatch... I am in the process now and it is not that crazy... just takes some fairing work to get it right.
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jdupree/LilRichard,
You guys are right -- I hadn't thought about the old glass and old cracks/new cracks forming. I'm going to go with new deck!!
Now to the update. Sorry I didn't take any pics laminating the two sheets, but here's the final product already cut, fitted, laminated, and ready to go. I used 2 layers of 1808 between two pieces of 1088 marine ply.
(http://
[img]http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa295/mjbosse/Transom002.jpg)
Ready to begin the process, all material cut and ready, resin pre-measured waiting for hardener, resin/filler mixed and ready waiting for hardener.
(http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa295/mjbosse/Transom003.jpg)
Used the resin/filler and put a layer all around the inside, added 1.5oz mat, and squished the new transom in place. I used 1" stainless steel screws to hold it in place (removed once the transom had set for a couple days and filled in the holes with resin/filler). Glassed in 3 layers 1808 on the inside, 1 layer 1808 on the outisde (for now).
(http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa295/mjbosse/Transom005.jpg)
(http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa295/mjbosse/Transom006.jpg)
(http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa295/mjbosse/Transom007.jpg)
[/img]
You'll notice I added about 3" to each side of the transom keeping the original 20" transom height. I wanted to add a bit of height just to possibly cut down on any water splash over the transom since it is a bit low. I'm pretty happy with the look, not a drastic change but should help.
The weekend I planned this it happened to be in the mid to upper 80s and hardly and breeze, just what I needed. Grinding and glassing was painful but I wanted to see some progress.
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That looks REALLY good. Really good.
I would suggest at least 3 layers of 1808 on the outside. You might wish to make each layer a little less overlap - it will help with fairing... otherwise you will end up with a big ridge where your original glass meets the new. Finish with a layer of 1.5oz mat. Then get the arms ready for some sanding!
:twisted:
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LilRichard,
Concur with the outside. I plan on at least another 3 layers of 1808 to build up to about 1/4" and probably another layer on the inside of 1808 as well. Final layer will be 1.5oz mat. I want to make sure I get good build up and strength over the top of the transom as well. I'll probably start there and overlap as I go along.
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I've cut the tops off the stringers 3/4 of the way forward till I found dry foam. Now I'm looking at pouring foam once I have repaired a couple delam spots -- any recommendations on density (#2/4/8) for the stringers?? Any recommendations on foam suppliers??
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2# will be fine. I would suggest FGCI, only because I know them... but there may be suppliers closer to you.
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LilRichard,
Thanks for the info, I thought #2 foam should be fine.
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Finished up the rough glass work on the transom 2 weekends ago. Last weekend I spent Friday afternoon and Saturday morning grinding the inside bilge from the transom forward to the storage lockers. Ground out the delam spots along the stringers and got that ready to glass. Prepped the aft portion along the stringers ready to rebuild the stringer sides that I had cut out.
During all the grinding I found that the center stringer was in worse shape than I thought. The 3/4' piece of ply running the length of the boat to the bow was glassed in but not very well originally. Water had gotten into the ply stringer and it is wet and in some places the glass has delaminated from the ply.
Structurally should I remove the old stringer and replace?? Or is it good enough, doesn't provide any strength, no need to replace, just glass over the bad spots?? The glass holding it in place seems to be solid.
Also, wondering why when the boat was made that stringer is not the same height all the way up the length of the bilge?? If I do replace the stringer I think I should be able to get away with a uniform height keeping it just below the fuel tank coffin.
Here's a couple pics of the 18" of the stringers I replaced this past weekend at the transom. I glassed in a couple of 1/2 rounds of 3" PVC pipe to allow for water draining along the outsside to the inside of the stringers. I plan to put a bilge pump to take care of any water.
(http://[img]http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa295/mjbosse/StringerRepair005.jpg)
(http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa295/mjbosse/StringerRepair004.jpg)
(http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa295/mjbosse/StringerRepair001.jpg)[/img]
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Looks good Mike 8)
Are you saying that there was wood in the stringer system? Should not have been any wood there.
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Rick,
The 3/4' piece of marine plywood runs down the center of the hull from the transom up to the bow. Not the stringers on either side, those were all foamed in. I had too cut out a piece about 24" long and it was wet but not rotten.
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If you look at my first post and check the second or third picture you can see that piece running down the center.
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Like this one:
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/1610DSC03035.JPG)
Mike, that was a great idea to leave those tops of the stringers in, I had a hell of a time leveling off my tops of foam. Damn I wish I would have thought of that. Oh well, next time.
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I actually added a stiffener to the middle of my hull (it's not really a stringer - not big enough to qualify). Having extra support in the middle is not a bad idea - so you may wish to put one back. Your call.
Here is what I did:
(http://photos.imageevent.com/jodi/theproject/websize/DSC01740.JPG)
Note the half round PVC down the middle... it is covered in 3 layers of 1808.
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(http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa295/mjbosse/Surgery019.jpg)
I see that piece - hmm, I wonder if that is the actual keel and they glass over it to give it a stout rounded edge?
Doesn't look like it is used for anything else - maybe one of our builder members can help us out here?
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On my 19-6 it is flat in a couple spots, looks like it was used to rest the fuel coffin on.
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I can't claim that idea about cutting the stringers that way....I saw one of the member's do it that way and "borrowed" it!! That's what's great about this site, everyone is willing to share info.
Back to the center piece -- the fuel tank coffin did not rest on the top of the center piece at all, there's at least a 2" gap between each.
I'm not real certain it provides any strength, maybe it was only used during it's initial manufacture. I've seen some other pics of other 17s and they seem to change construction techniques over the years.
It would be easy enough to replace but I'd hate to waste cloth and resin for no real reason.
Anyone else with any thoughts??
Mike
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Sorry, no pics, but have done some more work. I opted to remove the center piece of plywood and have added two layers of 1708 down the center as well as fixing the delaminated sections on the port stringer. This has really strengthened the bottom of the hull along the center since it was pretty thin.
Poured 2-part foam last weekend into the stringers, didn't have quite enough so will finish that this weekend. This has added quite a bit of rigidity to the stringers which is good.
I'll get some pics and add those this weekend.
Couple questions:
1. Transom Drain -- any recommendations on manufacturer or type/size?
2. The original deck was not actually sitting on the stringers, there was about a 3/4" gap. AS put this "putty" like mix/adhesive down and set the deck on top. I'm thinking of laying 3/4" strips of plywood the length and width of the stringer and glassing them to the stringer and then when I put the deck/sole back in will lay down some glass on the stringers and lay the deck/sole on top and then screw the deck/sole in place. Then glass over the topside deck/sole. How's this sound??
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You can use whatever drain you choose, but may I suggest that you put an oversized PVC "sleeve" in before the drain. Rough up the PVC and glass it in with some thickened resin and you'll be sure your drain never allows water into the transom should it loose the seal around the edge.
Personally I like a brass garboard drain... just what I have always had.
As to the wood on top of the stringers - sounds like a good thought.
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Sorry about the pics, I have to download and haven't had a chance. I'm finally in the "put back" phase of this rebuild having finished the stringers and adding strength to the hull keel on the inside.
Now I'm starting to plan for the deck sole replacement. I'm going back and forth between exterior plywood and marine plywood -- my checkbook says save a few bucks and go with exterior, but I keep thinking marine plywood. Any thoughts?? How about thickness?? Seems like the old deck/sole had 1/2" (might be 3/8") if I remember correctly, any recommendations??
I've been looking through a bunch of different rebuilds and have gotten alot of good information, but haven't yet found (maybe I haven't looked hard enough) a good way to secure the fuel tank in the coffin. The old tank had the straps with screws that went thru the coffin and into the stringers which over time wore bigger holes into each. I want to avoid that problem all together. Should I still go with straps and find a better way to anchor or is there another method??
And finally, I want to do all I can to prevent water from getting into the deck/sole -- anchoring the console -- previously it was anchored to 3/4" trim under the console and that trim was screwed to the deck. Is there a better way??
I know, bunch of questions but I don't want to get too far down the road on the rebuild and wish I did something else. Appreciate any feedback/input and I will get the pics up soon.
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Here's the latest pics to date. Have completed stringer repairs, poured the floation foam in the stringers, added strength to the center/keel with 2 layers of 1708, glassed over the stringers, added 3/4" ext ply to the top of the stringers to account for the 3/4" gap between the sole and the stringer.
Foamed in stringer and trimmed.
(http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa295/mjbosse/StringerRepairDec07001.jpg)
Cut the stringer at the transom to fit the trough.
(http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa295/mjbosse/StringerRepairDec07003.jpg)
Can't see it, but have two layers 1708 over top of stringer under the ext ply, then have the ext ply wetted and set over top of 1708.
(http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa295/mjbosse/StringerRepairDec07005.jpg)
Another of the same. I added weights to the ext ply while it cured overnight.
(http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa295/mjbosse/StringerRepairDec07006.jpg)
Next day, glassed over the ext ply with 1 layer of 1708. (http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa295/mjbosse/StringerRepairDec07008.jpg)
I plan to anchor the new deck/sole to the ext ply with a layer of cloth/glass bewtween the top of the stringer and the deck/sole as well as anchoring the deck in place while it cures with recessed ss screws.
(http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa295/mjbosse/StringerRepairDec07009.jpg)
Now I'm starting to plan for the deck sole replacement. I'm going back and forth between exterior plywood and marine plywood -- my checkbook says save a few bucks and go with exterior, but I keep thinking marine plywood. Any thoughts?? How about thickness?? Seems like the old deck/sole had 1/2" (might be 3/8") if I remember correctly, any recommendations??
I've been looking through a bunch of different rebuilds and have gotten alot of good information, but haven't yet found (maybe I haven't looked hard enough) a good way to secure the fuel tank in the coffin. The old tank had the straps with screws that went thru the coffin and into the stringers which over time wore bigger holes into each. I want to avoid that problem all together. Should I still go with straps and find a better way to anchor or is there another method??
And finally, I want to do all I can to prevent water from getting into the deck/sole -- anchoring the console -- previously it was anchored to 3/4" trim under the console and that trim was screwed to the deck. Is there a better way??
I know, bunch of questions but I don't want to get too far down the road on the rebuild and wish I did something else. Appreciate any feedback/input and I will get the pics up soon.
Any thoughts on the above questions would be appreciated.
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Sorry - meant to answer last night.
DO NOT USE Exterior ply... it is not the same quality as marine. Marine has less flaws - your best bet is a PT Marine. They pressure treat the marine ply, then kiln dry it again to remove moisture. If regular PT is usde glass will not bond to it - too moist. I used 3/4" on mine but 1/2" would be OK too. Fletch (CM Site) used 1/2" on his I believe.
Foam your tank in the coffin. I screwed the tabs in to some pads I glassed to the stringers - then poured 4lb foam around the tank. Take it slow- that stuff expands FAST.
I would either glass a piece of trim to the deck, then screw the console into the trim piece - thereby avoiding holes in the deck. Either way, you want to overdrill the holes - backfill with thickened resin - and redrill to prevent water from penetrating the wood.
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Looking Good :!: :!: 8)
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MJB shoot me an e mail at aquastriperman@yahoo.com
I will send you some pictures of how we attached the new deck/floor.
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Nice progress!
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Need some advice -- I am thinking about eliminating the rigging trough on the starboard side of the deck/sole that runs from the side of the center console aft and replacing it with a rigging tube which would run under the deck/sole and come out on the starboard side just forward of the transom about 6-12 inches above the deck/sole. This would also eliminate the small trough at the transom where the old drains were located.
Reasoning -- trying to eliminate a bunch of glass work required to rebuild the trough and also eliminate 2-3 inches of depth required for the cockpit drains (cockpit drains would be slightly higher than original which in "theory" would help out the draining problems). Any comments?? Recommendations??
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That sounds like a reasonable approach... Think it would be fine.
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Need some advice -- I am thinking about eliminating the rigging trough on the starboard side of the deck/sole that runs from the side of the center console aft and replacing it with a rigging tube which would run under the deck/sole and come out on the starboard side just forward of the transom about 6-12 inches above the deck/sole. This would also eliminate the small trough at the transom where the old drains were located.
Reasoning -- trying to eliminate a bunch of glass work required to rebuild the trough and also eliminate 2-3 inches of depth required for the cockpit drains (cockpit drains would be slightly higher than original which in "theory" would help out the draining problems). Any comments?? Recommendations??
MJB, I am rebuilding a 22-2. That trough is history. :evil: Besides the extra work to put it back I realized it was a large dirt and debre trap that would be very hard to keep clean. Second, the trough runs all the controls and wiring together. That creates an additional risk of damage to electrical wiring and control cables.
As an alternative I will run at least three chase tubes under the sole. At the stern they will come up inside the false transom. Under the console they will rise up into the dry control box (not cut off just above the sole).
Why three? 1) for engine controls and wiring harness, probably 3" PVC electrical conduit 2) power to pumps, lights, bilge, Tabs, etc. 1 1/2" electrical PVC 3) Electronics leads, fish/depth finder, water temp, etc. again 1 1/2" and for good measure on more for the fuel line (my project had a leaky fuel hose into the stringers and bilge. not gonna happen again).
BTW Batteries are goin under the console.
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Mad Dog,
Concur, my thinking exactly with the trough. I am not a fan of those cables/fuel lines/wiring etc all laying in the trough left to the elements.
This weekend I'll do some layout work on the tubes figuring where they will start/end, take some measurements for the deck/sole and remove the old fuel fill and overflow hoses and take measurements to replace. Also need to replace the forward storage box drain tube which drains forward to starboard. I'm planning to also put in some drains for the other two boxes to drain water to the topside of the deck forward. I need to make sure I get everything ready before I close in with the deck/sole.
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MJB,
That whole plan everything out before you start is usually my down-fall. :oops:
I likw the idea of draining the forward boxes on to the deck. Mine has the same drain through the bow. Why have another hole in the side of the boat? :)
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Update as of this weekend -- I bought a used 2001 2S 90HP Yamaha, light weight 262lbs 2 weeks ago, just what I was looking for.
This past weekend I grinded around the inside where I will glass the deck in place, finally got a transom drain installed, removed the fuel filler and the remenants of the old fuel lines, cut out an access panel for the fuel fillers/hoses just above the casting deck, grinded the anchor locker so I can replace the floor in that bow compartment, removed the thru hull drain for the center casting deck storage/cooler, glassed in the drain hole on the side of the hull, glassed in the drain in the storage box, removed the hardware on the bow and glassed in the holes, removed the bow eye (glad I checked, the bolts holding it in place had completely rusted/corroded to the point where just tapping on the end it all fell off), and grinded around the outer edge of the tank coffin which I will reglass to the stringers.
Doesn't look like much, all small things which needed to be done before I begin the deck.
Now I have to order a replacement tank -- any recommendations?? Looking at Florida Marine Tanks, Custom Marine Tanks, and Speedy Tanks (Atlantic Coastal Welding).
OK, I have come full circle on the rigging trough -- I was thinking of a rigging tube under the deck but haven't come up with a good way to bring the rigging up thru the deck at the transom and still be able to make the necessary bends in cables without binding. Plus, if I come up thru the deck with the tube I still think I will get water in the tube either from spray or rain etc.
I've been doing work to prep for the deck and the more I look at the old method (trough running down the starboard side of the deck) the simplier it looks especially in this small boat. Any ideas/comments??
I'll take some pics to update.
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Sounds like you're making good progress 8)
I think you're right, the trough is easiest and it will route water back to the drains PLUS your sole will completely seal the topside of the boat from the bilge. While you're at this point I think I would figure out a way to route a bilge pump exhaust pipe/tube out the top rear side of the hull somewhere (need a bilge pump just in case - I don't have one in my bilge but wish I did now - if I ever redo my floor again I will do what I'm suggesting).
You'll probably want to put an access plate in the rear floor to get at the bilge pump too.
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Rick,
That's my thinking, trying to keep water out of the bilge. I do plan on a deck plate/access panel in the sole with a bilge pump for inspection and peace of mind.
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If you remember back before you removed the floor there was a trough going not only along the starboard side for the wiring & control cables but also across 2/3-3/4 of the transom and this is where you had the 2 drains right below the engine mount. The trough could fill the entire length with water (all the way to the console and the drains being in the trough allowed for draining everything. Looks like you've allowed for this rear trough in your stringer design as well as limber holes to allow water from the outward side of the stringers to the center (don't know how water would get there but just in case). It also looks like the limber holes are big enough(?) for the bilge pump pipe to snake through to an outside thru-hull.
The problem with the older boats is they were designed for 70hp engines that didn't weigh too much so the original drains stayed above the water line at rest and weren't covered by the engine mounts. The engine mounts changed sometime in the 70's and newer motors covered the drains (both of mine are 3/4 covered) now. You have the flexibility now to make the drains wider than the engine mounts but have you planned them so they will be above the waterline with the motor you'll be using? I've seen some rebuilds that accomplished this and although they knew the trough would fill up if they walked to the back, it drained back out when they walked to center or was underway. The main thing is that if it rained, the water would drain out while the boat was at rest.
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Great info here, guys, thanks! It's given me some ideas on what I want to do to my '81 19-6 FF someday!
Dave
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RickK,
I did allow for the trough on the top of the stringers and will place the drains on the outside of the motor mount location. The old motor was a 115 weighing ~320lbs, new to me motor is a 2001 90 2s Yamaha weighing ~262lbs according to manufacturer. This weight seems to be more in line with the original motor combinations for the boat. The deck will be about 3/4" higher than the previous deck, so I'm thinking she should sit high enough so the drains will be out of the water.
With the trough I still have to account for the motor bracket and where the bolts will have to be in the transom, so trough depth will depend upon bolt location more than anything.
As for the drains in the stringers, when I dug out all the wet foam from before I figured I would add them to help with any draining down the sides to the bilge. Probably more for my peace of mind than anything. I do plan to add a bilge pump and an access hatch to the bilge, I like to be able to check and see what's going on before something major happens.
To date I've been getting things ready to start roughing in the deck, I had saved the fuel tank coffin and did some reinforcing and glased it in the past couple nights. Now that it is in place I can start to cut the pieces which will form the deck. I'm planning to cut the pieces of marine ply this weekend and then glass some cloth on the backside before I glass the pieces in to the boat. If I do, I'll get some pics of the progress.
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Finally downloaded some pics, so here's the latest. I've been doing something on the 170 after work and on weekends with the exception of a week off during kids spring break. Most all work has been doing all the small things in getting ready to glass in the new deck. Rather than make a new rigging and drain channel I decided to "salvage" the old channel which I had saved along with all the other pieces I had cut out.
I had cut the channel down the middle when I had cut the deck out so it took a little bit of time to glass the 2 pieces back together and do all the fitting to glass it in place to the aft deck pannel. Once I had the rigging channel fitted then I had to figure how I would make the drain channel. Decided to use the old channel, so prepped that piece and fitted it to the aft deck panel which took a bit of time making sure when the channel was in place I had room for the top and bottom mounting bolts for the motor. As it turns out the bottom mounting bolts will be below the drain channel out of sight accessible from the bilge (I will have an access panel to the bilge for bilge pump).
Here's a pic of the aft deck panel with both the rigging and drain channel glassed in place. Also laminated another piece of marine ply on backside of deck to strengthen. Entire underside of all deck pieces got a layer of 1.5oz mat.
(http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa295/mjbosse/DSC02546.jpg)
(http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa295/mjbosse/DSC02545.jpg)
This took quite a bit of time, more than I planned but I think it was worth it.
Here's all the deck panels dry fitted.
(http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa295/mjbosse/DSC02547.jpg)
(http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa295/mjbosse/DSC02552.jpg)
(http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa295/mjbosse/DSC02549.jpg)
(http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa295/mjbosse/DSC02550.jpg)
And finally the first panel glassed in place.
(http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa295/mjbosse/DSC02556.jpg)
(http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa295/mjbosse/DSC02556.jpg)
I glassed the deck to the stringer with a layer of 1708 in between and used 1" SS screws to hold in place which were short enough not to go thru the top of the stringer. I wanted too make sure no water entered the stringers, so after repairing those way back when and glassing in the top I then glassed 3/4" marine ply on top of the stringer -- this is what the 1" SS screws penetrated. Maybe overkill but I don't want any chance for water to enter the stringers.
I have to run the wiring for the bilge pump, run the hose for the pump, and install the thru hull for the bilge drain, pour a bit of foam on the outside of the stringers and then finally get the rest of the deck glassed in -- hoping to get this done by Sunday night.
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Getting there. Looking good Mike. 8)
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Looks verrrry nice. What is your plan for the deck - paint or gelcoat?
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Thanks. She'll get paint -- Awlgrip likely.....or maybe Imron, not sure yet. I've used Awlgrip and liked the results on my other boat.
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Project looking good Mike - is AB, NC short for Atlantic Beach, like the little oval stickers?
See ya on the water!
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GoneFission,
Correct -- Atlantic Beach.
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Finally got the rest of the deck glassed in this past weekend, the biggest piece with the rigging and drain channel. Started Satruday morning with another dry fit, cut the 1708, ground down a bit more. By lunch time was ready to go, but with the amount of area I had to cover and the temps that day I knew I needed help, so my wife "volunteered" and she really helped out quite a bit with mixing epoxy, helping place the cloth, wetting out cloth, passing tools etc. Even with help we didn't finish glassing until 7PM. Sunday I did some grinding and glassed the rigging channel to the inside edge where I had cut it out. Monday night after work did some more grinding near the transom to fill in the areas I had cut out originally at the corners and used 3/4" foam insulation panels as the backing for the form to tie in from where I cut to the transom. Tuesday night glassed in both corners with 2 layers of 1708, now that I have that in place I'll go back over and add another layer or 2 and do some finish glassing to better match where it ties in at the transom.
Big projects now are to make a new fuel tank lid, finish glassing in the console shelf, and finish the repairs from the old holes cut in the console, add some drains for the fwd deck comparments, finish transom, add a layer of 1.5oz mat on the outside. In between I'll begin sanding down the outside hull, see if I need to make any repairs. Then looking at the finish work.
Here's the pics.
(http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa295/mjbosse/DSC02564.jpg)
(http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa295/mjbosse/DSC02562.jpg)
(http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa295/mjbosse/DSC02558.jpg)
(http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa295/mjbosse/DSC02560.jpg)
(http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa295/mjbosse/DSC02561.jpg)
I don't think the pics can really capture the whole story, but I can certainly say I am glad to finally get the deck in, took more time than I planned but I'm happy with how it came out so far.
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Very clean work - looks great!
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Ok, it's been awhile, not because I haven't been working on this "thing", just not alot of major progess worthy of pictures. Once I got the deck glassed in, then the fun began with filling and fairing and sanding and on and on and on. In between I made a new fuel tank lid which should last forever. I mixed more 406 and 410 than I care to mention, but finally got the inside of her done to the point of actually getting a coat of primer on before Jul 4th.
In between all this, I managed an offshore trip for grouper, another trip out to the stream for some dolphin with my wife on Jul 4th, went to Alaska and caught some salmon and halibut that we've been enjoying.
Then it was hot as anything thru the rest of Jul first part of August and I had to take a break from the "project". Once it did cool a bit, I wanted to get the 170 off the trailer an flipped over so I could begin work on removing all the layers of bottom paint to see what I had to deal with on the hull. Once she was off the trailer I decided it was a good time to do a little work on the "home made" trailer, it needed new hubs and I had to move the axle forward to better center the CG of the boat on the trailer. THe hubs didn't want to come off, so that took a bit of work. Finally got the hubs on and the axle adjusted, I think I'll need to move it forward another 6 inches, but I'll wait till the boat is back on with the motor and full gas tank.
With the hull flipped, I began sanding the bottom paint with 40 grit, found this was taking way too much time so I took a 3" paint scrapper to the hull and managed to scape most of the bottom paint, this worked pretty well, then hit the hull with 80 grit to take of the last bit of paint and pigmentation that had bled into the gelcoat.
After sanding the whole thing down too gelcoat -- the hull sides had some sort of primer on it from the previous owner so I had to sand that off as well -- I found the hull was in pretty good shape, no real major repair needed except near the bow on the keel where it had been run up on the beach more than once. I ground down the area and put a layer of cloth for good measure.
Then I went back over the hull and ground out any bad scrapes, dings, and gouges and filled with 406 then 410. This went on for two weeks, filling and sanding.
During this entire time I had to look at the outer transom -- I had filled and faired the transom in June but I was not at all happy with how it looked, to many highs and lows, I had used two types of fairing material and one was harder than the other so when I sanded the harder material I took too much of the other off. I thought I could live with it but no way. Sand the whole thing back down, went back and skim coated the whole transom and hand sanded again with a board sander. After a couple late nights I was finally happy with the transom, much better than before -- not "perfect" but close enough now where I think I can live with it.
Sanded the hull at least 3 times with 80 then 120 grit. Finally hit the entire hul with 220 today after washing the hull. Amazing what you find after washing it, more "little" spots to sand and fill.
Here's some pics of the hull, I'm now ready to prime, had hoped to do it this weekend but the wind was blowing too much down here so I'll wait.
(http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa295/mjbosse/Hull2.jpg)
(http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa295/mjbosse/Hull-1.jpg)
(http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa295/mjbosse/Hull3.jpg)
In between all this I've been working on filling holes in the console and getting it ready, sanding the casting deck panels, and the rigging trough. I had to repair the center casting deck hatch, the plywood core had delaminated. Got that taken care of this past week in between all the sanding. Right now the hull is ready to shoot, the console needs another few hours, the hatches and trough need some more work.
(http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa295/mjbosse/Console.jpg)
(http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa295/mjbosse/Aug08SmallPieces002.jpg)
(http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa295/mjbosse/Aug08SmallPieces003.jpg)
(http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa295/mjbosse/Console2.jpg)
(http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa295/mjbosse/ConsoleSeat.jpg)
(http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa295/mjbosse/FwdDeckCover.jpg)
I need to get some paint on the outer hull if for no other reason than my own sanity. I did get a spray gun so I'm anxious to use it. I decide to go the spray route after rolling the inside of the hull with primer, not at all happy with the amount of work and the results.
So, to wrap it up, I'm ready to shoot the hull with primer and then it will be time to pick the topcoat. I'm a traditionalist so I'm leaning towards oyster white but noone else in the family likes that, they all want some color (yellow, blue, seafoam, etc). I'm afraid those will just show the imperfections more. I think inorder to keep peace, I'm leaning towards Awlgrip Ice Blue but have yet to place the oder. I think it will depend on how the primer looks.
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A ton of work done - looking great Mike.
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Great work Mike, I noticed from the pictures that you don't seem to have a waterway at the transom, how are you going to mount the engine bracket since there's to room for the bottom engine bolt ?
Marc..
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Marc,
Good question, there is a waterway or trough, but I wanted to try and keep the lower bolts below the deck and out of the water. The old setup the bolts were in the transom waterway/trough and were in the water more often than not so if possible I wanted the lower bolts below deck. I measured the motor bracket and space between upper and lower bolts and I have plenty of space to mount the lower bolts below the deck that will be accessible by a square bilge deck hatch.
This did take some time with measurements and double checking the deck placement before I glassed it in place.
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Thanks Mike, I just realize that you had mention this before but completely forgot about it, I think it's a very good idea having the lower bolts below deck, I don't like the original setup, on mine the bolts are so close to the bottom of the waterway that the washer had to be cut almost in half and a gouge to be made on the waterway to be able to take the bolt in and out of the hole and like you said always in the water
You're doing an awesome job on that boat
Marc..
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I agree with you MJB... on My 22-2 my lower bolts for my outboard are literally in the draining channel. No bad has come from it yet but I see future rust/corrosion problems with this setup
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A month ago I was waiting for a good day to shoot the primer with my new spray gun, finally happened last weekend, wasn't the best, the wind was blowing a bit more than I had wanted but I was tired of waiting. So shot the outer hull and the console with Awlgrip primer. This was the first time I've used a spray gun, last project was roll and tip, and I must say it was much easier than I thought it would be. Roll and tip in my opinion is much more work than spraying. I probably used more primer than I needed to but I wanted to make sure I had a good base. I used 3/4 of a gallon primer and converter to do both with a total of 3 good coats.
Here's the console:
(http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa295/mjbosse/DSC02905.jpg)
Here's the hull:
(http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa295/mjbosse/DSC02908.jpg)
(http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa295/mjbosse/DSC02910.jpg)
(http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa295/mjbosse/DSC02907.jpg)
Amazing what a coat of primer does, this was a major milestone, not just for me but for my wife and kids who have been looking at this thing for over a year now wondering if I'm crazy. I had some spots to touch up and pins holes I filled during the week and shot some primer over those spots. Sanded the hull with 320 and got her ready Saturday to shoot the finish coat Sunday. Again, wind was blowing a bit more than I wanted but can't wait any longer. Hard to tell in the photo, it was taken at noon with the sun shining bright, but the color is Awlgrip Ice Blue. A compromise between oyster white and a darker blue (or any other color the rest of the family wanted).
Here's the hull:
(http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa295/mjbosse/DSC02911.jpg)
(http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa295/mjbosse/DSC02912.jpg)
Came out pretty good, the finish coat sprayed a little different, thinner it seemed. Plus, with the sun shining directly overhead I had a hard time to keep track of where I was on the first coat on one side, result was a couple spots where the paint ran. The runs weren't bad, I was able to smooth them out a bit and by the third coat they were covered up pretty good. Of course, like any project, you always know where your mistakes are and I'll have too look at those. I was amazed at how well the paint covered the primer. I sprayed the first coat light and waited for it to get tacky, looked like it would take a lot of coats, but by the end of the second coat it was really covering. After the third it was looking good -- at least in my opinion based on the level of expertise with a spray gun (none). Used nearly a quart of paint and converter which was much less than I thought, so I can return one quart of each -- saving money!
I'll let this coat dry for a week or so before I think about flipping it over and putting it back on th trailer to finish the inside. I have the hatches ready for primer so I'll probably finish those up with primer in the mean time. With a bit of luck maybe another month and I'll be rigging..........maybe.
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Holly sh*t dude, nice work, how did you flip the hull ?
Marc..
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Holy Guacamole thats beautiful. How much do spray guns run nowadays, ive been out of painting for agess. Oh yeah, how did you flip the hull?!?!
that console looks beautiful
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Finally get back to update, I noticed my answers to the last couple posts never uploaded.
Spray guns -- I bought mine from Northern Tools, was a kit (1 - 1.4 nozzle gun, 1 - 1.7 nozzle gun, 1 touch up gun) for $99 -- best $99 I have ever spent. Once you get a sense of how to use the gun it is really easy, but I am in no way an expert at his point. I did make a few mistakes but managed to not repeat some of those.
How did I flip the hull?? I recruited some football players from our local HS, actually my daughter did the recruiting. I set it on 4X4s running perpendicular to the hull and we lifted one side until it was laying on its side, then had a couple guys steady it in place while we moved over to lay it down. Worked pretty good; 6 guys, 1 boat aproximately 1200lbs -- figured 200lbs each. Tricky part was keeping it balanced on its CG.
I thought this would work out just as easily to flip the boat back over right side up, but after painting I realized it may not be as easy as before. I didn't have much choice but to do the same, so I set the 4x4s in place, set lifejackets down on the 4x4s where the hull or hull sides would touch and covered those with old blankets and towels to prevent any scratches. This time we had 9 guys helping out, much easier, plenty of bodies to steady it on its side and then to slowly lower it down right side up. Next day put her on the trailer, no scratches or marks.
I don't think this is the "preferred method" when it comes to this but it worked.
Since then I sanded and prepped the inside, filled pin holes, and lots more sanding to ready for paint. Shot the primer, looked good, found MORE pin holes, fixed those and re-shot more primer. Last Monday shot the topcoat (except the deck), used Off White Awlgrip. Let that dry for a couple days and then taped of all the areas that were going to get non-skid.
Got some advice on non-skid, I had planned to use a salt shaker, but spoke with someone who recommended I try my 1.7 spray nozzle with a mix of 50/50 coarse/fine Griptex mixed. So I tested it on a piece of plywood and the gun worked fine, did not clog (did take out the internal filter basket).
I sprayed a coat of paint and waited 30 minutes for it to tack up and then went over it with the 50/50 mix with the 1.7 gun. Looked pretty good, I thought I may have sprayed too much but at that point I just wanted to get it done. Sprayed a final coat of just paint over it and pushed it into the garage to dry. Checked on it the next morning and I was surprised at just how well the non-skid did come out. Not too coarse, not too heavy, good uniformity, in my opinion came out exactly how I wanted which was a nice surprise.
Ready to come out of the garage:
(http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa295/mjbosse/DSC02929.jpg)
Ready to take the plastic off!!
(http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa295/mjbosse/DSC02932.jpg)
Finally!!!
(http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa295/mjbosse/DSC02938.jpg)
(http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa295/mjbosse/DSC02937.jpg)
(http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa295/mjbosse/DSC02939.jpg)
(http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa295/mjbosse/DSC02941-1.jpg)
(http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa295/mjbosse/DSC02936.jpg)
Finally I can see light at the end of the tunnel -- console and hatches are all primed, I need to sand and get those ready to shoot Sunday as long as the weather clears.
So far I'm pleased with the results.
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once again, beautiful job. Im getting a spray gun after seeing how well this came out, even if I am not repainting, seems like a useful thing to have and will get the job done right! Any tips and tricks you wanna share.
By the way, I can not emphasize how nice and clean that looks!
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awesome man! you give me the inspiration to get mine done! :lol:
how did you create a difinitive paint line on the transom? it looks like it is rounded?
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Looks new - GREAT job :!: :!: :thumleft: :thumright:
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Gents,
Appreciate the kind words, certainly a labor of love.
compcrasher86,
Let me start by saying I am a novice. There certainly folks on this site and others that have much more experiece than I with a spray gun. Couple things I would say about paint and spraying in general. Prep work is very important, before you think about shooting any paint you have alot of sanding, filling, and fairing. Then after shooting a light coat of primer you'll find more imperfections or pin holes that have to be fixed. During all the prep you will reach that point where you make the decision on how "perfect" you want your project to be, I reached my limit and accepted the imperfections. Once you shoot the paint though it really brings those imperfections to life. The paint must be able to adhere to whatever you are spraying, so sand, sand, sand, sand, and just when you think you're done, sand some more. I sprayed my boat in the front yard with no cover or shade, if you the room in a garage/shed or have some sort of shade I would use it. Bugs and things blowing around in the air all seemed to make their way to my boat. Shade will help you see what you have sprayed especially after the first coat. Probably the most important thing I learned and really was the key after I figured this out, was spray that first coat lightly, just enough to cover (not hide) and let it tack up the recommended amount of time. WHen I sprayed the hull I used too much on that first coat and found a couple runs (paint builds up quick with a gun). After that smooth and consistent motion with the gun over the area. Lastly, get everything ready before you spray, lay everything you will need out on your bench, have everything handy and close by (same for fiberglass work). Also, I found it very useful keeping track in a notebook how much I mixed and how much I used, plus writing down the time. Read the paint technical specs a few times, then if you know anyone in the area ask them a few questions, the specs make it seem like rocket science but it's not that bad. Practice on a piece of cardboard or plywood and get an idea of how the gun works and the adjustments you can make. Probably way more info but hope it helps. One other thing, nozzle tip size is important depending upon what type paint you are spraying (primer vs topcoat etc) so check too make sure you have the right guns for the type paint. From research here and Classic Mako seemed like 1.7 and 1.4 were a good choice for what I was doing.
Antibling,
how did you create a difinitive paint line on the transom? it looks like it is rounded?
Yes, the transom is rounded. Wish I could say I had a real plan from the start but......after replacing the transom I opted for the nice smooth rounded look rather than the squared edge mainly due to the amount of work trying to make a good straight squared edge across the length of the transom. I had thought the boat was going to be one color, off white, so it would not have been a problem, but I was the minority in my house. At that point I was too far down the road to really go back and square off the edges (I was willing to accept the outcome). I figured if it came out really bad then I would go back and square the edges. I taped the out side edge of the transom and eyeballed it across using the bottom edge of the round (ice blue came up to just where it begins to round over). WHen my wife and I took the plastic/tape off yesterday afternoon I was pleasantly surprised, came out pretty good, the contrast between ice blue and off white isn't so much that it jumps out at you. Most importantly my wife thought it looked fine.
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Congrats - great work!
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RickK,
On the flip side..... (and not to steal the thread), my 170 console was/is the ONLY place to hang on and having people on board in other than smooth conditions, we ended up ripping the glue & screws that held the console down, right out of the sole The whole console leaned forward at 25+ mph when we hit a wave After that I tried to prolong the inevitable (sp?) to no success - the sole had to come out.
Anyway, my answer to this was to glue/screw/glass a 5/8" peice of resin coated plywood, that matched just the bottom edge (inside and out) of the console - bevelled out at 45 degrees, to the sole, gelcoating it while I did the sole and now I have double thickness of sole to screw into. The bevel up to the top of the wood keeps any water out of the screwholes which I siliconed as I put the screws in anyway.
Super secure to this day and I did that 15 years ago.
Good point, I had thought of glassing in another 3/4" piece the same contour of the console, but I'm not too excited about that now that I have sprayed the finish coat and non-skid to the sole.
Now that I think about it, after just picking up a couple round access covers, I could probably cut a hole in the tank coffin forward and make up a backing plate to thru-bolt the at least the forward portion of the console. Cover the hole with an access cover. Sides of the console are a different story, stringers are right there where it would bolt in place.
However, I capped the stringers in a layer of 1808 - 3/4" ply - 1808 and then glassed/screwed the sole down into it with a couple layers of 1808. That would give me an 1 1/2" to screw into which is double (might be enough). I just don't want to penetrate that last layer of 1808 on the stringer, I want too keep water out.
Another question: any idea where I can get a windshield to fit a 1976 170?? The one that I did get with the boat is not the original, it's 2-3" too big in width.
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I should have checked the resources page first........
Another question: any idea where I can get a windshield to fit a 1976 170?? The one that I did get with the boat is not the original, it's 2-3" too big in width.
Looks like UPD plastics makes it pretty easy.
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Not sure of what UPD plastics charges, but we make windsheilds at my shop in St. Pete. PM me if you cant find what you are lookin for. We also make switch panels.
(not fishing for business as it doesnt benefit me, just trying to help fellow boaters out!)
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It'll be awhile before I order a windshield, got to spread out the purchases a bit........don't want to break the bank.
St Pete.......everyone caught up with the Rays in your area??