Classic AquaSport
Aquasport Model Rebuilds, Mods, Updates and Refreshes => Osprey Style Hull Rebuilds => 22-2 Rebuilds => Topic started by: Undertow2 on September 03, 2007, 01:29:33 PM
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After 6 months of research, 300 miles on the truck looking at 22-2's, 100+ hours on this website and so on and so forth my job was officially started yesterday!!!! :D
I operate high-volume restaurants and don't have the time to complete the work myself, so after speaking with MANY people in the Tampa area and those on this site, I have decided to allow Mr. Will Leslie @ Bayside Marine Services to perform the overhaul. With my business experience I consider myself to have a fairly decent ability to assess character and I feel very strongly that Will and his team were the right choice. Plus, speaking with Will amuses me as much as a good Guy Ritchie film with his thick UK accent!!! He's a pretty cool cat..
I will begin posting week-to-week pics very soon, hopefully you guys can critique as I go. This website rocks. I look forward to spending much time here and maybe all us Florida AS guys should look into getting together for our own boat parade of some sort...
If anyone would like to ask me about the current 22-2 market in Florida I am very much in the know right now. Someone should grab capnjfran's project, for example. It wasn't right for me but wow what a deal!
Anyone interested in Will's shop it's:
www.baysidemarineservices.com (http://www.baysidemarineservices.com)
Stevo
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Congrats Stevo - looking forward to seeing the pics.
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Ditto's what RickK said! Have read good things about Bayside.
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Stevo, I'm glad you found the right hull for your project. I'm sure Will will do a great job after having met him. We had a beer together when he was up to look at my boat and I got a good feeling he does class A work. I guess I was wishing my efforts would have stayed here in my Palm Harbor neighborhood. You are right, this site has a wealth of knowledge and is an inspiration to all of us who frequent it.
Best of luck in your project.
Jim
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Had to test the picture procedure anyway! Here's a few shots of my other love. This girl does 35mph in 3" of water and can handle 2ft seas with a dry ride, mostly... :wink: 2006 168 Ranger Banshee Extreme. Remember, I needed to test the picture procedure, ok. ;)
50hp Yamaha 4s on a box transom, creates its own water:
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/2046IMG_0162.jpg)
Look at those lines! Rounded chines totally silence chop!
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/2046IMG_0163.jpg)
Darn near 8' of beam!
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/2046IMG_0164.jpg)
Redfish and snook hate this boat.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/2046IMG_0166.jpg)
...and my AS is being built. I am truly a grateful guy right about now.
Stevo
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We all have to start somewhere before we get an Aquasport :wink:
Nice looking little boat - no picture of the transom?
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That's great Stevo. We will be looking forward to the progress reports.
That Banshee is a nice ride. I inspected one thoroughly at last year's boat show. We will not hold that against you. Quite a few of us have "other" rides also. :wink:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v53/Johnny_B/BackCountry/BCboatMay2006001.jpg)
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Had to scan this off the Andros catalog, sorry Mr. Andros boat guy.
This is the configuration I am going with. I consider it to be one of the biggest decisions for several reasons; cost, structural concerns and useage.
PLEASE COMMENT.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/2046TowerTtop.jpg)
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That looks really cool, go for it if you can afford it. Just make sure that it's bolted down real good, we don't want you falling in. :shock: :wink:
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looks great!
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Nice.
Only question I have is do you want a half, or full tower? There's only about 2-3 ft of difference... but I like not feeling like I am going to pull a header into the base. I like my teeth.
I was pretty sold on a half-tower until I saw James C's full. Check it out in the gallery.
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where did james c get that tower from and does anyone know about how much installed
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James' tower came from Quality. I think it was around $5k, but keep in mind aluminum has gotten more expensive lately.
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James is a quality tower but it doesn't look like it folds, this makes a big difference in price. They recommend on a folding tower to do the electronic controls which add around 3k to the price at the min. You can do cable controls but you cant run it through the tower pipe as the bend is to sharp. Give them a call and they can explain everything for you and cost differences. Might be able to get a better deal right now as they are slower than usual.
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I don't get this one - looks like you are standing about 2-3 feet higher than if you were standing in the bow. If you want a real tower, you need to get up higher. If you look at the tower that Aquasport offered as an option on the 22 and 24 foot CCPs, you can see the difference:
(http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j7/GoneFission/68AS_all_models_brochure10_1980.jpg)
That tower gets you up high enough to make a difference. I think a poling platform over the motor makes more sense than the just over the console tower, but that's JMHO.
Anyway, my $0.02...
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James' tower is about 2' taller than a folder- so why fold? If you're trying to get under the skyway pier, hey- go for it. If you're spotting tarpon on the beach, why are you worried about clearance?
FYI, electronic controls are about $2,500 - 2,750 total. Cable controls (morse) will be $1,200. So that's $1,300 - 1,550 diff. Not $3,000?
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Look at my gallery for a full tower on a 222. Folding is a matter of trailering. You cannot trailer a full tower in the up position. Folding to get under bridges is a fallacy. You will not want to fold lower and raise the tower several times during the day just to get bridge clearance. If you want to get under the Skyway pier and under some lower bridges AND you do not want to fold the tower to trailer, go for a half tower. Work with your tower builder to customize to your height. You want to be looking over the floor when running from the lower station. Some builders will make a fold-up floor so you can protect your teeth. Quality in Tarpon Springs has an awful lot of experience at this stuff.
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What about the pendulum effect and the overall effect on the ride of the boat itself? Aren't these factors to consider as well with the full tower? Cost as well?
I really need to do some fish sighting on a half tower to see just how much difference there is with 3-4' less of perspective. I HAVE spotted fish from a full tower, so I would be able to see the benefit, if any. If it's considerable, I'll swing for the full tower. Oh crap, yea, almost forgot am getting a steel storage building that will house the boat and other things...the higher the door clearance, the higher the leg height, the more $ for that... But, it is all about the ----> :fish:
Anyone got a half tower boat wanna take me fishing I buy gas and beer and teach you how to fish? 8)
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Fishbonz is right about the folding part, you mostly need it to fold while you are trailering it. You dont really want to get a tower if you frequent under bridges a lot, a full tower with belly band, control box, rocket launchers etc. is heavy as hell to have to fold up and down a lot. Legal trailering height in FL is 13'6" a full tower on a boat is taller than that. Unless you want to ruin that new tower hitting crap as your dring down the road go folding or half tower.
Where can you find electronic controls for under $3000 ??? Call Travis if you have any questions as to what the controls ad to the price. Its around 3k.
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Where can you find electronic controls for under $3000 ??? Call Travis if you have any questions as to what the controls ad to the price. Its around 3k.
I have seen quite a few places, here is the first one I found:
http://www.seatechmarineproducts.com/ke4_single_enginedual_station_system
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BTW Undertow, I think that exact design comes from Sanchez Brothers. If you notice, it is literally a T-top with a hole cut in it for access to the above controls. They call it a "T-Tower":
http://www.sanchezbrotherscustomfabrica ... owers.html (http://www.sanchezbrotherscustomfabrication.com/t_towers.html)
I have heard mixed reviews about them as fabricators... but I do know they do a lot of work for TA Mahoney's.
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Pretty sure Paramount does Andros? Am I wrong? I know they do Yellowfin (which would sell me, flat out!).
I'll have to check it out. Thanks for the FYI.
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Very possible... I was not familiar with them. Yes, yellowfin using them can only mean GOOD things!
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I wanted this t-top but I can't afford the high maintenance cost.
(http://www.mindspring.com/~bigtarpon/thong.jpg)
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:shock:
:thumright:
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I'd recommend going full. When I finally get to mine. I am going to do a full folding tower. I like to sightfish the flats and i need to do a fold for trailering to and from the ramps.
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BTW, I talked to Tom at Marine Specialties in Oldsmar. I am still trying to figure out the half/full question myself. He mentioned that he has heard of a few Dorados ROLLING OVER due to two big dudes in the tower hitting a wake from the side.
:shock:
Anyone ever heard that before?
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My boat feels tippy with two average guys in the tower or when it's windy.
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I have had a boat with a half and a full tower...I would'nt go with a half tower again...the full tower has alot more advantages and folding it down isn't as bad as people are making it out to be. The height difference between the full and half is a HUGE difference...I would rather not have a tower than have a half tower..yes price is a cost difference but well worth the extra few dollars...my friend had a half tower on a pathfinder..got on my full tower and replaced his! the half just got in the way when i wanted to drive from the bottom....thats all..good luck in your decision..
as far as that dorado..it happend in tarpon springs/anclote area..And it happend acouple years back. It's the only dorado boat i've ever heard of flipping and they were idling and a big wave from another boat rolled it over...
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but that was a dorado, not an aquasport! come on! haha! :lol:
i hope that doesnt happen to me. as i said i want to get a full tower, but im by no means a small guy. at 6'6" and 275lbs, i might have a chance on swaying it back and forth, hopefully not into a roll over!
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Terrible news for me. According to Bayside, Tracker Marine sold our '06 Zuke 175 4S out from underneath us. Wankers.
I have a line on a '06 Zuke 250 4S for about $9K. Comes with the "Gimme 6" year warranty, zero hours and $200 to ship down from Jersey. Oh yea, also includes cable, binnacle, SS prop, etc..
Question is, can the 22-2 take that motor w/ a Porta Bracket? I know the OEM horsepower ratings for the '74 AS are on this site somewhere buy I can't find them. Surely this is conversation material for myself and Will @ Bayside but would like to know what you guys think.
Thoughts?
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holy $h!t that thing would fly with that srapped on that boat. you trying to build a lake and bay or aquasport. haha. I honestly dunno if it would fit. I would think, but it would probably be a little heavy, but I would think as long as the transom could accomodate it, you could do it, as long as you got it balanced out right.
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I think that would be overkill... that's like a V8 in a Civic... LOL!
:twisted:
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Check your PM...
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A buddy of mine had a 250 on his 1985 222 osprey and it was to much he got rid of it after a month and went to the 175suzu. Its just too much weight in my opinion but a captain buddy of mine is running a 225 suzuki right now on his 1977 222 and it runs fine, but tower, and tank are moved up to front deck he only gets 5 more mph than I do with the 175.
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(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v53/Johnny_B/Catch%2022/225.jpg)
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yeah but thats a 2 stroke johnny and a ccp
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Yeah, I know. It needs the HP.
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In my humble opinion, that is way too much power. I have a 200 VMax HPDI on my flatback and it is more power than I need/want. Great hole shot, but very squirrely at top RPM. Might not be all that bad on a V hull 222, but most guys still power with a 150 or so.
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250 on a 222 might be a bit much - 150 seems more in line... CCPs can handle 225 or even 250, but that's a different hull.
You may want to look at some of these in the 150HP range:
http://motors.listings.ebay.com/Outboar ... ngItemList (http://motors.listings.ebay.com/Outboard-Motors_100-200-hp_W0QQfclZ3QQfromZR11QQsacatZ111125QQsocmdZListingItemList)
Good luck!
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no such thing as overkill :twisted:
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On the flatbacks I've been told (by owners of them) that they have a mind of their own - you're intentionally going one way and all of a sudden you hit a wave and are going 110 degrees from your course. Has to do with "bow steering" on those boats. So, I think you'd be wise to take the advise of the owners of them, to play it safe and stay in the 150ish range.
I drove Bob & Joels at one of the get-togethers and it would slide out from underneath us on a turn with the 90hp on it. Can't imagine it with a 250 :shock:
A few FB examples:
Here's Jim's with a Honda 150 on it:
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/68jims_boat1.JPG)
Here's Bob and Joel's with a 90:
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/68Bob_and_Joels_boat1.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/534/68Muttons.JPG)
Here's Tim's with a 2 stroke 150 on it:
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/534/682ndGetTogether14.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/6504.jpg)
Browse through the member Photo Gallery and I'm sure you'll find plenty of FBs that are powered in that range of HP.
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HEY GUYS...MINE IS A DEEP-V 1974. NOT A FLATBACK.
I would not even consider it with a FB. Seems like my 22-2 is even a deeper V than the Outboard 22-2, mine was converted from the I/O Factory setup.
Does this have any bearing? I think it does. Plus, using the Porta, overall length is nearly 24ft. Plus, we completely over-engineered the transom with the Coosa and it is 3/4" over factory. We are also discussing reinforcing the bow for the extra thrust.
I can also practice a little self control on the throttle. At least I know I could drag race the boat at any time :twisted:
Thoughts?
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I was just kidding about it not being overkill, i'm prolly gonna stick with about a 140-175on mine. I would say that its excessive but in the end its your call
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evinrude has a special right now for 115hp an higher you get 5 year warr on motor if you need more info get in touch with me i'll see how much motors are on monday if you want johnny
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I'm not sure your boat is a deep-V; probably a semi-V (Osprey?), with a 12 degree deadrise, not a deep-V with a 20 degree deadrise. Does it have a20 or 25 inch transom?
The semi-V is about the same as a flatback, but handles water a little better and takes 1-2 inches more water. Anyway, the 22 footer with a 25" transom was rated for 230HP max. So a 250 on an Osprey would be above the USCG rating - which could be an insurance problem. Other than that, a 250 could work - assuming the weight is reasonable. The original idea with a 230HP outboard was about 500 lbs. - But - and here is one of the key design concepts - was that the 22 footers were also designed for twins - that is about 350 lbs. per engine - so a big 4 cycle should work (assuming normal weight loading and no waterlogged foam).
If I was repowering my 22-2CCP, I would seriously consider a 250HP replacement, but would move the batteries up under the console to offset the rear weight compared to my current 200HP Merc 2-cycle.
Whatever floats your boat!
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I've been running twin 115 hp Mercs on my '73 22-2 since 1995 and love the combo. I foamed in the transom baitwells to handle the extra weight.
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Hey Undertow2,
I happend to stop by Bayside Marine today to purchase my Porta Bracket and got to see your boat there. Will and I talked for a long time, he's a really nice guy.
My '73 22-2 with a Porta Bracket will be powered by a 175. I didn't want to go bigger because of gas mileage. I didn't want to go below a 150 because of power. I don't have any first hand knowledge yet, but from what I've heard 150 -175 is the sweet spot for power vs GPH. The more power I have, the more I'll be tempted to use it and the more $ it will cost me to run it...... :twisted:
I look forward to meeting ya Saturday.
-Mike
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don't scratch the 250 just yet. I had a 250 stroke on my 222ccp, and loved it. But as others said, heavier, deeper V than the osprey, needing more hp. I belive that its more than the boat is rated for, but that price is almost too good to pass up!!
I believe in maximum hp, less rpm's to cruise and plane should translate into long engine life, working hard on underpowered boats is a recipe for inevitable catasrophic engine failure, sooner than later.
It also maybe true the boat acts squirrly at high speeds, but possibly something trim tabs can correct. Or not running the boat and the 250hp at those speeds, and just enjoy the effortless planing and cruising.
Weight is DEFINATELY gonna be an obstacle. I saw a redone 22 mako today with a yamaha 250 4 stroke. Closer comparison to a ccp model, but still 100-150lbs heavier than 200hp 2 stroke the 22'mako was designed for. A 250 4 stroke on your boat maybe as much as 175-200 lbs heavier than what your boat was intended to hold. At a glance the only obvious to me modification the owner did was fill in or close the original scuppers, raise them what looked like and inch-inch and a half, and went from small circular holes to 3-4 inch rectangular scuppers w/ rubber flaps. I spent 5-10 minutes admiring this boat, and it sat at the dock very even like the yami 4 banger was made for the boat. Other things u could do would be to move as much weight forward as possible, batteries to console etc. I've even heard of people moving the console the console forward.
The 1st thing i would do before seriously considering would be to look up exact weights of current power and the 250, put a person of equal weight to the difference and see the difference, then move some serious weight forward and see if u can get an acceptable "boat at rest". Guarranteed scupper modifications needed, as well as any other drains or thru hulls designed to be above the waterline, but maybe possible, keep us posted
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I believe in maximum hp
I agree.
I've even heard of people moving the console the console forward.
That makes the ride feel harder. Appreciably.
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2007 DF175 SUZUKI 4S. THE 250HP SUZI WAS A GREAT DEAL @ 9K, BUT ITS JUST TOO MUCH WEIGHT AND POWER. I THINK I COULD HAVE PULLED IT OFF, BUT, NOT NEEDED.
AFTER RIDING ON CAPT RICK'S 222 WITH THE 175 I KNEW THAT WAS THE ONE TO HAVE.
GOT A GREAT DEAL WITH HELP FROM LILRICHARD, RICK THANKS AGAIN, BRO.
OH YEAH, GOT THE 'GIMME 6' WARRANTY TOO. NOW BOTH MY YAMMY ON MY RANGER AND MY 175 ON THE 222 WILL BE WARRANTIED UNTIL 2013.
GOING SEE MY 222 THIS THURSDAY, MAJOR ADVANCEMENTS HAVE BEEN MADE AND WE'RE PREPPING FOR GELCOAT AND PAINT. SHOULD BE ON THE WATER MID-DECEMBER. YIPPEE CAYAY MOTHER F-ER!!!!
PICS TO FOLLOW THURSDAY NITE!!!
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good deal, should be a sweet ride
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YIPPEE CAYAY MOTHER F-ER!!!!
Bruce "Roy Rogers" Willis fan are ya?