Classic AquaSport
Aquasport Model Rebuilds, Mods, Updates and Refreshes => Osprey Style Hull Rebuilds => 196 Rebuilds => Topic started by: Duffy1470 on April 27, 2024, 06:53:58 PM
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Is the liner bonded to the hull side on early 70s 19-6? Also, is it tabbed to the floor? Just started a project. Already itchy.
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My '71 liner was only attached at the top by the rub rail screws, it stops just short of the cap. At the bottom it's a continuous part of the deck/glassed.
Just a small 1/4" at most gap between the liner and hull side. Seems they had a mold for the liner and deck when constructed.
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My 19-1 liner was attached at the top with bonding putty.... for like the top 4"... it was a mess to take out, destroyed the liner.
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Thank you so much for your response. unbolted the cap (flat head screws/bolts are the worst). My plan is to throw away the liner or at least not put it back in. I assume it was not structural? Is that ya'lls understanding?
Other than Coosa or similarly priced materials or plywood, what other decking materials work.
Thanks in advance.
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Flathead screws are indeed the absolute worst! There are few different ways to rebuild these hulls to make them last as long as they did. What you have to ask yourself first is what type of finish do you want and what your intent is with the rebuild. If your looking for a nice finish inside, the liner will make it much easier not to have to fair/finish the inside of the hull after you tie the deck into it. However, when you cut the deck out and try to leave the liner, you'll want to tie the deck to the hullside to keep some structure. This will leave you with a liner that has to be re tabbed into the deck so it has to be trimmed (assuming the deck is thicker or at least will be raised). The last option that I don't believe you see often is removing the liner as one piece (hoping it doesn't crumble)..and recoring it filliped upside down with divinycel, coosa, or other composite materials Check out my flatback thread and you will see what I mean. There are a LOT of rebuild threads on here to look over and many proper rebuilds to follow. Share some pics and it will really help with guiding in the process and perspective to answer any questions you may have.
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I'm rebuilding without the liner, but the hull sides do not have a ton of stability without the liner. I put a layer of 1708 over the entire inside of the hull and that really stiffened things up, but now am obviously having to fair and sand everything to make it look nice again.
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Posting pics is next.until then, thanks for the input. I was going to finish more commercial grade so liner is out. I just wanted to be sure it wasn't going tol fold like a cheap suit. Looked at your build. Very helpful and will probably add a layer of 1708 as suggested or at least some ribs. Thanks
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I posted a picture but have not managed to get it on the post. Working on it.
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Duffy, when you upload your pics, upload them into your member gallery. The "Rebuilds in process" was a good idea but once your pics are there you have to hunt for them. They are not grouped together, just appear when you upload them. If someone else uploads their pics are mixed with yours.
I moved the pic you uploaded, into your member gallery. When in your member gallery there is no struggle to find them.
As for posting the pic, you've already done the hard part. Look through this tutorial and start from #8 to post to your topic. http://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=12725.0
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Thanks Rick. I will give that a shot.
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Rick, I am having Pic issues. Do you want to discuss via email?
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Other than Coosa or similarly priced materials or plywood, what other decking materials work.
I've had good luck with Nida Core (Plascore) using it for deck core, used 5/8" and 3/4" but it has its drawbacks.
Two versions available, with a scrim and without. Just a thin covering on the surface to help attach fiberglass. Get the scrim.
My layup for each side was a light coat of resin onto the scrim, then 1 layer 1708, and 1 layer of woven 12 oz., all wet on wet. Panels are reasonably light & stiff as long as you're not having to span a long distance without supports, 2 foot x 4 foot area was no problem.
The edges are the most work. If you've got an opening for a hatch and need to fill the sides of the honeycomb it takes some time but not a deal breaker. You also can't put a screw into it without prep, filling in the honeycombs, I added Divinicell as a backer where I knew I'd have screws.
It's cheaper than structural foam core.
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Rick, I am having Pic issues. Do you want to discuss via email?
We can - rickk@classicaquasport.com
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(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/Boat_stringer_delamination.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23903&title=stringer&cat=500)
The outside joint of both stringers delaminated 1/4 to a 1/3 of the way towards the bow. Do I have any worries of the hull twisting, etc.? Also, I assume the order of rebuild is:
1. pull deck
2. pull cap
3. remove old transom from inside
4. redo stringers to keep hull form true
5. redo transom
6. attach stringers to transom
Thanks for everything All...... Duffy1470
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(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/Boat_deconstruction_2.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23901&title=stringer&cat=500)
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(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/Boat_deconstruction.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23900&title=stringer&cat=500)
more pics. transom skin looks like swiss cheese
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(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/Boat_deconstruction_3.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23902&title=stringer&cat=500)
itchy
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Nice work. Personally, removing the casting deck and liner as one piece would save you a lot of work and give you an opportunity to get all the structural work done to stringers as necessary. However, it depends what deck height you plan to go with.
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The boat was created in 3 parts - the hull, the stringer/bottom liner piece and the liner/cap. The stringers were created out of the boat and then bonded into the hull. The liner was created out of the boat and then bonded to the stringers and sometimes, hull sides. On my 170, the cap was part of the liner. The liner sides were not bonded to the hull sides. The cap being screwed to the top of the hull sides was the attachment point for the liner sides and cap.
Now might be the time to create a detailed drawing of the hull and the stringer placement, string height and width, top and bottom. Lay a 2x4 or 1x2 across the top of the hull sides and get all your measurements from the bottom of the piece you lay across the hull to the top of everything, like the floor, top of stringers, bottom of stringers, both sides, fuel tank area. Get those measurements starting, for example, at the starboard rear and work toward the port side. Work from the rear toward the front and get measurements every foot or so. This drawing will become very valuable to you as you need to reference back to how things were or the width of the stringers at the top at this particular spot, like where you want to attach a t-top or a leaning post, etc.
You also might consider fastening a 2x or 1x2 across the top of the hull to keep its shape. I screwed small pieces of 1x2 to the outside of the hull at the top and then screwed the 1x2 I used to keep the hull shape to the top edge of the 1x2 I attached to the hullside.
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The measurement advice is good and I will do that. I have some more pics of stringer defoaming. There is a lot of foam in the stringers. Will post those soon.
I would really like to NOT foam the tank in. Is that stupid or unsafe? How much foam does the uscg require? Getting ahead of myself with these questions.
At any rate, when defoaming is complete will pick up Coosa, start grinding and then glass in Coosa. Im sure i will have lots of questions. Have a great day everyone.
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If replacing the fuel tank with a poly tank, then no foam is used per manufacturer requirements to allow for expansion. Only straps to keep it in place.
If your tank is aluminum, not sure what USCG requirements say, I always assumed foam was optional in this case as long as the tank is strapped down good.
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Roger that dbiscayne. Thanks. No foam for you tank.
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(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/thumbs/20240509_133121.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23918&title=20240509-133121&cat=500)
i am not good at posting pics
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(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/20240509_133121.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23918&title=20240509-133121&cat=500)
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(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/20240510_175734.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23919&title=20240510-175734&cat=500)
There are two significant voids in what appears to be the factory outer skin. What do all of you think I should do:
1. Put a matching size piece of Matt in the hole
2. Smear the peanut butter mixture in it
3. Proceed with Coosa as if the voids do not exist (what I want to do)
4. Something else
Which number
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Thanks in advance
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Usually when you redo the transom coring, you plan to lay in a couple of layers of 1708 to beef up the transom skin. Laying in the 1708 usually includes grinding the inside transom skin and about a foot of the inside hullsides and inside bottom. You can fill in the voids with layers of 3/4oz CSM (chopped fibers) and then cover with the layers of 1708. Lamming the 1708 to include the hullsides and the bottom creates a complete tie-in and makes the transom really strong. Then you start adding the coring, using fillets of thickened resin at all the corners, to include where the transom meets the hull bottom. You seem to have cut the stringers back enough to allow for this.
If you need more info let me know. There are a lot of examples of doing this.
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Agree with Rickk 100%. But keep grinding even if it requires you to remove adjacent structural glass. You’ll be much better off building it back up with new structural glass and building a solid outer skin to build on. Check out my flatback 222. It’s nothing but Matt glass that’s left on the outer skin and I am going to be building up soon.
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Thank you gentlemen. On the hull sides on the heavy biaxial I assume it needs to be ground flat in relation to the significant relief/texture of the material itself.... grind the ridges flat? For that matter, how long does a grind last assuming it gets nothing like grease or dirt on it? Ya'll, for the record, are ridiculously helpful and gracious with your time and knowledge. Thank you.
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For the hull sides, if you're next to the transom where the new glass will overlap from transom to sides as Rick described just be sure it's ground clean and free of things sticking up that would cause an air void in the new glass. But you don't need to grind the weave of the heavy woven glass out.
grind the ridges flat - do you mean at the ends of the new glass? If so, and you plan on overlapping with glass later on, then yes you'll want to knock that ridge down to once again keep from getting an air void under the new glass.
Best to layup the new glass wet on wet if you can stand the work hours, that would avoid having to grind between layers.
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As before, great info and thank you.
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Regarding how long a "grind" will last, I think it really depends on environmental conditions its exposed to. A covered canopy carport type structure is the only way to go in my opinion but it looks like you have a lean to structure to help with that. Making sure rain water doesn't get in will prevent contamination and runoff from trees will prevent algae/mold/mildew from developing. The reality is that you could spend many days grinding only to get to the actual glass work weeks later. The biggest thing is making sure there are no contaminants that have entered into the grinded voids to prevent the best mechanical bond possible. Polyester resin has the weakest mechanical bond with Vinylester being second and epoxy being first. However, polyester is what boats are made of still to today and do just fine with rebuilds as long as the proper prep is completed. Another thing to consider is your finish because if gelcoat is preferred, you will need to be careful not to use epoxy where you plan to finish with Gelcoat. General rule of thumb is that epoxy finishes will stick to polyester/vinylester based resins but Gelcoat (polyester based) will not adhere properly to epoxy resin. Lastly, although heavy woven doesn't need to be grinded flat to create a bond, if there is any leftover wax from the original layup, this could contaminate the repair layup. I always start with a pressure wash to make sure all the glass is free of dirt and debris. Once the woven roven is free of debris you can wipe it with acetone to remove any original wax and then grind away. I personally believe wiping with acetone LAST contaminates the "teeth/grooves" that was created from the grinding and the last step should always be grinding/sanding with heavy grit(36-80) . I also find that a dual action compressed air sander helps a lot to get everything ready right before you start to lay glass. Hope that helps and don't hesitate to ask questions.
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(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/20240513_192815.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23927&title=20240513-192815&cat=500)
Some more pics ..... maybe
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Thank you Ulysses. I plan to do the following to the stringers:
1. Obviously grind, seriously though, rebuild them to transom
2. Laminate Coosa to the outside of the stringers
A. From the back of the gas tank locker to transom
B. From as far forward as my wallet can stand on outboard side to transom
I am going to raise deck 2ish inches with the plastic fence posts. Why does everyone glass on inside of stringers. Seems like a huge unnecessary pain in rear? Also, there is a thru hull transducer hole almost perfectly placed right in front of where forward most part of a splash well would be. Does anyone think it feasible to put a livewell there that drains into the splash well. A livewell that goes all the way to the hull bottom like a gold line. Creates lot s of "where does my bilge pump go?" Issues, but seems like a really cool idea. Thoughts?
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2023-A-194-00047 Drainage Permit Number 2023-D-194-00050
The coosa on the stringers will work but the factory trapezoidal stringer shape is pretty strong once they're filled with foam.
I added a strip of glass, probably 1708 that was 4 inches wide, along the inside of the stringers where they met the hull. There is no 'liner' inside the stringers so you're bonding straight to the hull. That actually made a noticeable difference in the wall stiffness. Wet the strip of glass on a work table, roll it up then bring it up into the boat, nice and easy to get it into the stringer through those little access holes then unroll along the seam. Just be sure to place it mat side down.
The factory foam within the stringers seemed pretty light duty, maybe a density of 2lb/cub foot type foam? I used a denser 4lb/cf foam its much much stronger and more waterproof. Added weight is minimal probably about 20 pounds more for both stringers than if I used the lighter foam. That might be a better way to go vs. bonding coosa to the stringers.
For the livewell, older Mako's did the same thing, with a plumbing system that let you draw in seawater from outside OR shut that down and recirculate the water within the livewell. Even if overflowing into the splashwell you'll still need a way to get all the water out, drain plug on the bottom of the livewell that drains into the bilge? It's a great idea when it works right. Or it can sink your boat if the plumbing fails.
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Yeah, livewells sink a lot of boats for sure. Will cross that bridge later.
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I looked in the vendor forum hoping to find a fuel tank supplier and did not. Is there more than one vendor? Surely I am doing this wrong?
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Where are you located? If you're looking at aluminum:
In the NE that was a supplier to Aquasport - http://alloymetalworks.com/
In FL - RDS - http://www.rdsaluminum.com/index.html
Moved from FL to NC - Florida Marine tanks - https://floridamarinetanks.com/
Look at this sub-forum - https://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=5843.0
If you're looking at Poly - Moeller seems to be the brand to look at. I bought my poly tank for the 170 from a marine surplus place. I had to modify the stringers to fit it in. Also remember you'll have to allow 1-3% for expansion in all directions once gas is pumped into it. It expands once and doesn't shrink back.
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I've had good luck with Moeller tanks, huge selection of poly tanks on their web site if thats what you're looking for.
Great Lakes Skipper and Jamestown Distributors sometimes has them on sale.
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I am having a moment. The kind where you grind your thumb and fall out the back of the boat only to step on a rake. I will get the new pis up. Bear/bare(?) With me
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(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/20240518_110102.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23929&title=20240518-110102&cat=500)
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(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/20240518_110211.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23930&title=20240518-110211&cat=500)
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Finally. Grinded all the old stringer support glass out of stern. There was a piece of wood glassed along either side of keel that is no longer there. Seems like it should be there which is why I plan on glassing some Coosa down. Also appears the keel is not glassed down the center. It's off about halfway towards the bow by about an inch off to starboard. Odd. Whoever did last job was less of a professional than me which is to say very unprofessional. Pick up my first run of supplies on Monday. Wish me luck. Will be add8ng glass to transom skin, adding Coosa along keel and generally adding strengthening hull where I can before I lay up transom.
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Almost forgot. Those are cicadas in the picture. A 13 and 17 year hatch is transpiring here in Tennessee as I type. Thank the good Lord they don't bite. There are thousands of them. Feel like I am in the exorcist II or something. Get in your hair in your face in you clothes, the whole time making some high pitched lunacizing noise.
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Looking good on the progress. Yeah, those are good size bugs.
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RickK, is it pretty normal for there to be lots of resin? Looks like it was just poured in
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Where are you referring to? If you are using epoxy, it doesn't harden very fast and can run down and puddle at the bottom of the transom. I hope you plan to install a pvc pipe at the aft and through the drain hole. You will be affecting the lowest point in the boat. Now is the time to do it.
Here is a link to where I explain the thought of the PVC pipe
http://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=13148.msg133124#msg133124
Here is a link to where I show what is actual problem
http://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=13148.msg133556#msg133556
Here is a link to Hawgleg's rebuild that shows the PVC pipe installation to keep a drain at the new low point of the boat
http://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=13148.msg134262#msg134262
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(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/20240518_170838.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23936&title=20240518-170838&cat=500)
Haven't processed all you wrote yet but will and will answer. In the mean time more pics to ponder. This boat has clearly been in a significant collision. See pics of bow and stringer. Everyone's thoughts would be appreciated. Should I continue down the Coosa path or switch to plywood?
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(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/20240518_171637.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23947&title=20240518-171637&cat=500)
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(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/20240518_170917.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23942&title=20240518-170917&cat=500)
You can see where core was taken out and not replaced. What was factory? By the way, cicadas are attracted to grinders.
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(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/20240518_170900.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23945&title=20240518-170900&cat=500)
You can see extensive repair to starboard bow. There is also repair about halfway back on starboard. I assume same collision which caused starboard stringer blowout? Why would core be removed from next to keel? Input please I am at a loss.
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Okay. Answer to Rick's questions. I have not used any resins or epoxies as of yet, still grinding. The resin appears to be polyester and was already in here. You can see where the stringers delaminated from the hull. Looks like whoever "repaired" them dumped the rest of the resin in the bo/om. I will try to post a pic.
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Can you show us the damage at the bow and the starboard side plz?
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In the last pic you can see how the stringers were laid into the boat. The stringers were attached with a bonding putty, so maybe what you think is resin in the aft of the boat may be bonding putty. To repair the stringers I think dbiscayne has the right idea to rebuild them from the inside out. You can buy rolls of 4" or 6" 1708 that are used as tape, might want to consider that instead of cutting your own tape.
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(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/20240518_171659.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23948&title=20240518-171659&cat=500)
Bow damage. See the streaks? It appears to be polyester resin that was just dumped in. That was done in the stern as well but I ground it out already. The bonding putty is Grey so I don't think I would confuse it with poly resin. Pretty sure someone has done a bunch of sub par work to this boat. See the paint. It is representative of the rest of the work.
Again, why rebuild the stringers from the inside instead of the outside? I really do not relish the idea of grinding inside the stringers. Also, is it standard to have one layer of biax tabbing the stringers down because that is all that is there. As shown in the Pic the bonding putty unbonded leaving the one layer of biax floating in the air, tabbed to nothing.
My goal with this boat is to make the guts last for another 50 years so my kids can finish it however they want when they want. I can change my goal if this boat isn't worth $300 plus a sheet Coosa. Thy plywood lasted a long time. Your opinions are appreciated. Thanks
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I will get a pic of the starboard damage that is adjacent to the blown out stringer today.
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Ouch, can you see the damage from the outside? I think it's an easy repair but will require some grinding (ugh) The other option for the stringers is to rip them out and build new ones, then you know they'll last. I did that in my 170 rebuild. You only need fiberglass cloth, 1708, resin and a homemade mold.
Heres a few pics from my rebuild:
Stringers out, hull inside ground and new 1708 over entire hull
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG0609.JPG) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=6576&title=cimg0609&cat=646)
New stringers
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/IMG_2811.JPG) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=6369&title=img-2811&cat=646)
Stringers scribed to hull and set in place
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG0610.JPG) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=6641&title=cimg0610&cat=646)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG0616.JPG) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=6643&title=cimg0616&cat=646)
Held in place
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG0622.JPG) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=6666&title=cimg0622&cat=646)
27 gal fuel tank notched in with room for expansion
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG0675.JPG) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=6835&title=cimg0675&cat=646)
Tabbed in and later tacked in place
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG0679.JPG) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=6983&title=cimg0679&cat=646)
This is the tank I bought at Marine Surplus in Bradenton FL. They have a web page
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/IMG_2798.JPG) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16507&title=img-2798&cat=646)
This will get you in the middle of the stringer stuff
https://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=10101.msg103523#msg103523
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(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/20240519_145945.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23952&title=20240519-145945&cat=500)
Your build is awesome. I'm toying with the new stringer idea. Not sure my skill set, wallet or patience is.up to the task. As far as rebuilding a wrecked boat goes, it's not any dumber than rebuilding a 51 year old boat, but a 51 year old wrecked boat. Here is an example of the poly resin poured into the stern.
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Yeah we've seen iron bars glassed in for ballast and to correct lean, in one boat, so nothing really surprises us.
If you can build the molds that you see in the pics I posted, you can make the stringers. I joined multiple sections of the stringers together to make the length I needed - that was challenging. If I did it again I would make a 16-17ft mold.
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Roger that on the 16-17 foot mold. I think the answer must be really obvious and you are not wanting to insult my intelligence or lack thereof, but why rebuild stringers from the Inside. Are inside out rebuilds stronger or something. The answer could be my proposal, if executed, will look stupid which is legit. Just curious. If I need to stop asking, I can do that too. Thank you for all the info, truly a great resource.
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Also, picked up two sheets 3/4 in Coosa, 5 gal of poly resin, mek, bubble buster roller, roll of Matt, and got a roll of something heavier than 1708. The heavier stuff was a "good deal". We'll see. At any rate, going to patch holes in outer skin of transom first. Question, I know it's 11ccs of me for a quart of poly resin at 70 degrees Fahrenheit, less if hotter. How much less, say at 75, 80, 85 degrees. It's getting hot here 8n tn. Thanks.
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Roger that on the 16-17 foot mold. I think the answer must be really obvious and you are not wanting to insult my intelligence or lack thereof, but why rebuild stringers from the Inside. Are inside out rebuilds stronger or something. The answer could be my proposal, if executed, will look stupid which is legit. Just curious. If I need to stop asking, I can do that too. Thank you for all the info, truly a great resource.
To me, rebuilding them from the inside out is too labor intensive and if the stringers have breaks in them, even worse. Mine had tears and previous rework (by me) so I decided to tear everything out, re-enforce and build new. My boat is like a tank now.
As for the MEK mix, try dividing the resin into small/smaller batches and adjust the MEK by the same divide. You don't want to learn with a quart. If its cooler reduce the MEK by a few drops and see how quick it kicks off. Also, keep the lid tight on the poly, it starts hardening the day it is made. You want to buy in small quantities so it's always kinda fresh.
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Thank you Rickk. I get it now. I can be a little dense.
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(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/20240521_155142.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23960&title=20240521-155142&cat=500)
Bunch more to go. Ran out of gloves. Get gloves.
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Find 'em cheap, buy a case. And find a good source for respirator cartridges.
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(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/20240522_155020.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23961&title=20240522-155020&cat=500)
Sage advice umecheme. 30 years ago when I did my last boat rebuild (stringers and deck on what we think was an 18 almond that looked like a wellcraft v-step), we would patch holes by tearing pieces of mat instead of cutting. I did both here. Is one way better than the other or is it personal preference? Thanks for everyone's input. Very cool.
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I've done it both way with CSM. When I tore it I was repairing something, like my 170 had been beached so many times that the keel was worn through in one spot but the previous owner had painted it over and I didn't see the damage. When I did find it (because the boat almost sunk), I tore the 1.5oz csm and tucked it in and around the gouge that was now present because I ground it deep. After a few layers I could start adding cut pieces of 3oz csm and went back and forth between torn and cut until it was filled.
Oh, and use your air compressor to blow out the motor on your fan often. I borrowed a fan from my buddy and after a while the motor was getting hot and started to not turn on. I blew it out and all kinds of stuff (he never blew it out since he bought it) came out. I did this from several different angles until it was clean and it started back up and spun much freer that when I received it.
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Hey guys, sorry to come in with no info and just questions but im in the same boat here (literally lol). As i go through all of these rebuilds and see all these photos im curious to what i have going on with mine. I see alot of pyramid stringers and that i do not have. Have attached photo (i think) to give you a look. Wondering if this is factory or someones handy work in here. The two center ones have 2x4's attached from a tank replacement before i purchased so i know thats some handy work but mine are completely different. Wondering if this is factory or if i need to start from scratch from the bottom up! Thanks in advance for any info!!
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_0913.jpeg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23962&title=stringers&cat=500)
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I would say that it's someone's handy work. Is the wood dry? Take an awl and probe the wood, if its mushy, it's toast. If it's still hard then it may be fine. Wood in the bilge is not a bad thing as long as its sealed very well and water doesn't get into the bilge.
Start a new topic here - https://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?board=30.0 - and post your questions.
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Wood is in bad shape but was wondering more if the design of the stringer is good or not as i see mainly pyramid ones in all boats on here yours included rickk!
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Aquasport was the first to have fiberglass stringers. They made them trapezoidal in shape for strength and filled them with foam to help support the structure of them. That being said, all other manufacturers at the time didn't have any choice but to make them out of wood, and they lasted a long time. a friend was buying a grady white cabin boat and he asked me to check it out. I opened the bilge and there was wooden stringers - I stuck a screwdriver into the wood and it was very soft. I told to get his deposit back.
So, you have a decision to make. If you decide to rip the wood out, it's not hard to make your own trapezoidal stringers from homemade molds.
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Looking forward to your response as I am struggling with same question.
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Theres some science to the stringer design and how it works with the adjacent hull 'flat' areas. They need to work together and have similar stiffness properties. A stringer thats overly stiff next to a hull panel that flexes a lot, ie small boat, can cause problems. I've seen two separate cases of a hull tear along a stringer because of exaggerated differences in stiffness of the two. I'm no expert at this, but from what I've read and seen its good practice to not have a wood stringer laying directly on the hull, instead they should be separated with small spacers, +/- 1/8" then a proper fiberglass fillet connecting them. With all that said, as long as you don't beat the crap out of the hull it might be OK without that gap.
Seacraft also used the fiberglass box stringer and they've got a great reputation.
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Good info dbiscayne. Thank you. Here are a few more pics of hole patching and bow eye prep.
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Something wrong with my machine or the gallery. Will post pics later
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Anyone else having gallery problems? I am getting a blank blue screen.
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We are having a problem now with our gallery. I have our host helping figure it out. Bare with us.
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Sorry you're having issues. Technology and flat head screws. They're the same
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Got some pvc. The kind a boat plug fits in perfectly. It is the thinner wall stuff but that's what I am going with. Going to put about a foot down for the aft drain. Got all the holes patched in the transom. Will put some mat and Biax on inner skin next. I am a slow worker and this work is slow. A lot of watching paint dry. Pretty cool though.
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Yup, lots of watching, sometimes days of just looking to figure out the best way. The pipe will be fine. Make sure you use thickened resin to glue it down and create fillets along to pipe to make it easy for the cloth to conform easier.
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What's the word on the gallery? I have pics and questions. Here are the questions:
= I constructed the transom clamps and have a of 3/4 plywood transom form to compress and straighten the inside.
= can I cover the ply wit h plastic to keep the glass from sticking when I lay glass
= how much space at the bottom of the ply where it meets the hull do i need to leave for laminatebuild up?
= everyone uses 1708, I got 400 08, how much bigger is that? I was planning on 2 layers instead of 3. Supplier gave it to me
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Hi Duffy. I don't have an answer on the gallery yet. The ISP is ghosting me.
Are you trying to build up the inside layer of the transom glass? You can use a cheap painters plastic drop cloth on the wood so the resin won't stick to your form. If you're trying to straighten the transom typically you lay glass across the width of the transom and out on the hull sides about 4-12". Usually the laminations overlap by 3-4", so first layer would extend 4" pat, the next layer would extend 8" past, the 3rd layer, 12" past. It could also be 3,6,9" of overlap. You do the same overlap along the bottom where the transom meets the hull bottom.
Then you use your clamps to force the transom straight.
Can you get more info on the material your supplier gave you? 1708 is 17 oz plus it has a 3/4 oz CSM sewn onto it. What is the weight of the material they gave you? 4 oz, 40 oz? Do they have a web site we can go to and see the material and it's specs? here is a link to US Composites site - I couldn't find a 400 08 but I did find a 40 woven glass https://www.uscomposites.com/cloth.html. 1708 can be found here https://www.uscomposites.com/specialty.html
Hope all this makes sense.
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It does all make sense. It is 40 Oz with a layer of mat sewn on back, so maybe one layer? On the hull and bottom overlap, I guess I would need at least 1/2 inch of space from the plywood cutout? Right now the ply wood is the exact shape and size of the transom so no room to make the fabric turn without the plywood getting in the way..
Let me know if isp continues to ghost. I have an i/t guy that might could help
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That's some heavy cloth and a resin hog for sure. Strength in building up the transom skin is layers - the 1708 is perfect. I would think the 40 oz is good for bulk, not strength, like the webbing between the stringers?
Also, you going to have to tie in whatever you've planned for the transom core itself. Usually that's 3 layers to tie the entire transom to the hull and stringers and then you have a strong connection transom to hull. That means you can push the hull with a big motor.
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The 40 Oz is too much. Glassed some last night. Impossible to work with. It was like a cartoon sweater. Strands would attach to the roller from the opposite side of the hull and pull up a corner or a middle section all the way on the other side. Is that normal to have 5 foot strings from the cloth attach to roller or did I do something wrong or is it poor quality material. Again, very frustrating but hey, I have a grinder and can make it disappear.
Any word on gallery. Posting pics is motivating, somehow.
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Yeah, cloth can be a pain sometimes. If you can, pre-wet the cloth, roll it up, carry it to the application site and carefully unroll it onto the spot using a resin/laminating roller.
As for the Gallery, when the datacenter rebuilt the PCs they installed new DB software that doesn't get along with our Photopost software. So, we're still trying to get it back up.
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Good luck with the DB stuff. The software world, where users pay a lot, get unwanted updates, get spied on by strangers, and own nothing is 1000 times worse than flat head bolts. I do not envy you. It does however allow us to enjoy things like classic aquasport, though
At any rate, ground the 40 Oz crap off the transom. It came out like cotton candy. Was weird. Think I mixed it a little cold. Maybe it wasn't fully cured after 2 days. 15 CCs of mek is not enough for 2 qts of poly resin at 85 degrees Fahrenheit. In my limited experience.
Here is a real question. I can get 1 whole transom cut out from a sheet of Coosa and almost another whole one. The 2nd cut out would be missing the vee. There would be enough left over to easily fill in the missing vee. Seems like an opportunity to add a strong back or something
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I answered my own question by using two full pieces to make the transom core.
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Sorry for the delay. I think that was the wiser choice using 2 full pieces. More money but more piece of mind. Plus now you have leftovers for other things.
As for the gallery, if you want to post pics right now you'll need to scale the pictures to decrease the file size and then "attach" them. Make a copy of the original and then scale the copy to 1024x800 pixels. When we get the gallery connection back you can upload the originals and I can replace the pics in your post for you.
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I laminated two layers of 1708 on the transom, overlapping onto hull s8des and bottom. I'm not unhappy with the outcome. Makes me appreciate some of the true c4aftsmen on this site, though.
Next steps:
1. Clamp the Coosa transom to new skin with a thick layer of thickened poly tramelled on to the entire surface
2. Smear more thickened poly around the edges
3. Glass 3 more layers of 1708, overlapping to hull sides and bottom
4. Glass one layer of csm over that
5. Move on to stringers
Do those steps sound reasonable?
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And thank you for previous responses and future ones.
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Did you glue the 2 pieces of coosa together, maybe with CSM between?
The questions/steps you posted all look correct.
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I did use a layer of csm in between 2 pieces of Coosa. Very solid.
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I did use a layer of csm in between 2 pieces of Coosa. Very solid.
:thumleft:
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Glued transom on this afternoon. Fingers crossed. Thanks for the earlier guidance.
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How long should I wait to unclamp the transom? It's been a day and a half. Maybe another day or now is fine? Is Christmas here yet? I want to open my present.
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It's not going to get any harder, so she's done. It's grinding time to rough up the inside of the core and touch up the places the new laminations will meet the sides and bottom.
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Pulled clamps and all is good. Very exciting. Thanks for all the help.
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Trying to post a pic
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Okay, that was older Pic. Put drain in as Rickk suggested. Very solid very easy instructions. Thanks Rickk
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Transom. Will get other pic of clamps. I left way to much space at bottom. Does it matter if the thickened poly resin smeared into the gaps on the side of the core crack? Port side fillet(?) Cracked horizontally about every 2 inches. I'm going to glass over it at least 3 times with 1708 so do I care? I don't think I do. Any input would be appreciated. Thanks
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Clamps and braces
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Transom. Will get other pic of clamps. I left way to much space at bottom. Does it matter if the thickened poly resin smeared into the gaps on the side of the core crack? Port side fillet(?) Cracked horizontally about every 2 inches. I'm going to glass over it at least 3 times with 1708 so do I care? I don't think I do. Any input would be appreciated. Thanks
If the fillets are too thick using poly, they will shrink and crack. I had many a measuring cup with left over kicked-off poly in it, crack. So it's normal. The fillets are filler and not structural. They also help the cloth transition around corners, so the next layer of fillet needs to be smooth and topped off with the core. Do you have any coosa scraps that you can glue in at the bottom to fill the gap? It will help to support the cloth as it transitions down to the bottom. It'll also give you a good place to lay your next fillet to help the cloth transition around the corners.
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I do have scraps left over. So smear the resin in then kind of mush a strip of Coosa into it to fill the remaining void, maybe at a 45 ( plus the Angle of the transom) angle to the hull and transom to make a curved transition? I think that is what you are talking about. That is what I am going to do.
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Back to reply #89 and the last step there, the stringers. I have read posts about boats that had a "broken back" when new stringers were laminated in and would never run correctly again, i.e. couldnt be trimmed. I assume the "broken back" referred to the keel bending into a bow shape. The back third of my stringers were floating, not tabbed to hull. How do i make sure all is straight? Is this a rare thing i probably dont need to worry about. My plan is to look down the keel from under and eye ball it or maybe get a 12 or 16 foot 2 x 4 and lay it up against the keel from underneath. If it isn't straight, how much is too much?
Feel like I am way over thinking this.
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I do have scraps left over. So smear the resin in then kind of mush a strip of Coosa into it to fill the remaining void, maybe at a 45 ( plus the Angle of the transom) angle to the hull and transom to make a curved transition? I think that is what you are talking about. That is what I am going to do.
You should use a 1/4" notch trowel to "butter up" the coosa pieces and then you can stick them where you want. 2 layers, just like the transom core.
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If your hull is anything like my 170 hull there was an upward bow of about 1/4" from 3ish" in front of the transom to about 3-4 ft in front. Was this designed in? Who knows. I filled it in and the boat runs fine. It ran fine with the bow in it too.
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Roger that. Over thinking now ceases. My next move will probably be to not think. Grinding/scuffing transom this afternoon.
What does everyone (Rick) think about using the old liner material as side material for the rear stringer portions I have to rebuild? I have a lot of it, it's free. My thought was to put Coosa on top of the existing stringers all the way to the transom (and to the bow for that matter to raise deck) then build, using the liner material, the sides of the stingers to the stern. Remember I cut those out. Did a very poor job of it. They are not reusable. Perhaps I should reconsider the the not thinking thing.
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You might consider making a mold of the stringers and make enough to fill in the gap(s). If you look at this pic the mold is to the right. Notice I added fillets in the corners of both sides to round out the corners. I added a 1x2 across the ends of the mold to keep it in shape and then I covered the inside of the mold with a cheap painters drop cloth as a quick release. I rolled drop cloth with resin that wasn't mixed too hot and then laid the 1708 in the mold and rolled resin on it and while still wet, added another layer of cloth. The raw, unfinished stringer that I popped out is to the left. I showed this pic upstream in this thread but it may make more sense to you now.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/IMG_2811.JPG)
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To the left in the pic is cloth still in the mold and you can see the painters drop cloth too. This isn't rocket science.
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Sure enough. I will do that.
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Transom with fillets
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:thumleft:
Transom with fillets
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Rick is THE personal boat build trainer. I am copying most of his stuff.
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Rick, I am not totally sure I understand what iam looking at in your pic. Is it two pics or is the stringer popped out sitting next to mold/form? It appears you molded a wing, I assume matching the contour/angle of the hull.
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I should have been more clear. The pic is showing 2 molds (at the bottom of the pic you can see the wood of both molds). I popped the new stringer portion out of the right mold and set it so it straddles the two molds. The left mold holds another stringer portion. The resulting stringer needs to be ground down to remove the wrinkles/rough stuff left by the painters drop cloth.
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Got it. Crystal clear. If memory serves, you replaced your entire stringers. You did mention you did them in sections which ended up being a pain in the rear to marry/join them. I will be joining the new sections to the old. I imagine you clean up, make square, the end of the old section and cut the new section to fit between transom and cleaned/squared existing structure?
Unfortunately, when I made the mold I made it an inch short at the top width, 5 inches instead of 6. When I looked at the old stringers, they actually reduced in size to about 5 inches. Either way, I'm going to make these work. Time to get the proverbial hammer out.
When you joined your sections, I assume you feathered the ends out and glassed between them like you were fixing a Crack. I was thinking about glassing a piece of Coosa to the inside of the old stringer under the top and gunnel side to act as a guide. Not the inside/keel side because I stupidly made it the wrong size, an inch short. I may fix the mold, already fileted. Being stupid makes for a difficult life of rework. Just out of curiosity, why ground down the sides of the stringers to remove plastic wrinkles? That an aesthetic thing or glass to new section of stringer thing? Both are valid obviously.
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I made 5 or 6 of the pieces, squared them up and I tacked them together with thickened resin, like a glue. I think I cut the last one in half and added it to the 2nd stringer. I ran a string from end to end to make absolutely sure that the stringers were straight, not bowed or twisted. I used 6" tape (I think) to join the stringer pieces together. Then I ran 2 layers of cloth, 1x1808 and 1x1708 the full length of the stringers, on the outside (hence the grinding) and used epoxy resin, now they were like steel.
Here are the molds - the one on the left is for bulkheads, the one on the right was for the stringers.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/IMG_2803.JPG)
Here are the finished stringers, dry fit
https://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=10101.msg93388#msg93388
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That makes toal sense. I bet they are bullet proof. Can't believe I didn't think, "join them? Grind them." At any rate, i have a couple of pics of the first layers of glass on the transom to post. I learned the following which I think will be helpful to others in the future:
- a piece of 1708 that is 40 inches long and 25 inches wide takes 2 qts of poly resin maybe a touch more.
- a novice individual, such as myself, needs one other person to lay 3 of those pieces.
My son helped me. Projects are good.
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First layer glass on transom
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What you see in the pic is a 25 inch wide by 40 in long piece of 1708 laid 12 inches on the hull and 12 8nches on the transom and 4 inches up the gunnel. Did this on both sides of hull. The two pieces overlap in the center on the transom above the drain. Then another piece on both hull sides fr9m bottom to top. A lot of the builders on this site are just better at laying glass than me, really talented builders. About the most I can manage at a time is the 40 x 25 piece 9f 1708 and that was wit help from my s9n, who also has never worked with glass. At the end of the day, though it's satisfying to see your work, whether it's perfect or not.
Thanks all for your help everyone.
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Clamp a 1x2 across the aft of the hull sides and use it to hang the cloth on and down into the boat. If you are going to lam 2 layers, clamp 2 layer onto the 1x2. Then you let is hang into the boat where you can trim it and cut pleats for the corners. When you have both layer trimmed, flip them out of the boat. Then mix resin and roll it on the core and flip the first layer back into the boat. Roll and resin roll everything flat, bubble free and tucked into the corners. Wet the first layer down again and flip the 2nd layer in and repeat.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/IMG_2774.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/IMG_27751.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/IMG_2776.JPG)
Link to where I did this in the rebuild
https://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=10101.msg89625#msg89625
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I tried to do that and screwed it up. I couldn't get my head around that I am not enclosing the transom and cut the pieces to size and tried to clamp them to the transom instead of a board across the top which obviously failed. I was also using that 40 Oz crap, blah blah blah..... listen to what the people here are doing and copy them precisely. I will give the "hanging gardens" technique another try. Thanks.
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Yes, you'll be cutting off some of the upper part of the cloth that is filling the cutout. You won't be wetting that part anyway.
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Now my next problem. I can only get 25 inch wide rolls of 1708 locally here in middle TN and I don't want to spend the money anyway. 3 x 25 = 75..... I need to do these vertically across the back off the board onto the transom.
Question:
- in the corners where the glass bunches up
*do you cut a slit and overlap the pieces? Or
*do you cut a wedge and butt the edges instead of overlapping?
*does it matter?
I've done both and can't see that it matters. Looks a little stronger to overlap but it's a little harder to glass, likely bubble area. Have a great day everyone.
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The corners get tricky, you described it right. Happens on inside and outside corners but obviously no overlap on the outside corners.
Personally I overlap just about every time if it's not in an area that'll be exposed as part of the finished product. I do the trimming after most of the glass has been placed with resin to hold it so you end up cutting in the right spot.
Just keep a rag w acetone handy to clean the scissors I always end up w resin on them. Found it helps to cut just a little further up into the glass than I think I need.
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Thank you dbiscayne. The overlap where no one else sees it makes sense. I will do that.
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Cutting after it's we out, i just did that and it's brilliant. Thank dbiscayne
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More progress. 3 layers of 1708. Plan is to copy Rickk and dbiscayne's builds. Once I get this dry fitted, will use thickened poly to glue it to the existing stringers. Then it is two layers of 1708 down each side, foam, two 3/4 inch planks of coosa glued together with a layer of csm on top to raise deck and finally 2 more layers of 1708 over the top
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Duffy, you’re making some great progress! I have been watching along in the background. Nice work on laying up the stringer in the mold. I’ve learned that anywhere you can possible use mold techniques will save a good bit of work and makes for professional looking work as well. It also helps to save a ton of work on fairing and filling and getting a flat sanded finish. I learned the hard way trying to cold mold the top of my ‘81 console.
I have a comment on the double stacked coosa. Have you seen the fence post trick people use to raise the stringers? Seems much more cost effective because that 3/4” coosa isn’t cheap stuff. It’s great for transoms but not necessary anywhere else.
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I did see the fence post method and can't find the post. The cost of coosa is a concern. Is there anything special i need to do for where the console and possible future t top mount to the deck. My initial plan is to take a 115 yamaha I have that is r8gged for a side console and do just that, rig a simple side console with all the rigging going under the cap. I suspect I will upgrade the motor and will want a center console at some point so I'm going to run all the tubes etc as I rebuild.
Have any of you seen or heard of anyone coring the hull sides with divine cell? I am not putting the liner back in and I thought that might be a good solution, remembering that I don't know anything.
Thanks for the kind words Ulysses. I forgot to mention copying your builds, also. Been extremely helpful to access yalls info and pics.
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I d9nt know if the pic is good enough to see. I am having a difficult time getting the 1708 over the corner of the transom. How rounded does the corner need to be or should I use csm?
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Also, my transom is 21 inches. Long story of stupidity how it got that way. It's not going to get shorter. Does everyone agree these are my options:
1. Cut an inch off the transom
2. Dont cut the transom and Get a jack plate, manual or otherwise to compensate for the engine being to high
Any input would be appreciated. Thanks
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Maybe I missed it if you already have a motor with a 20” shaft but why not go with a 25” transom? Probably not something you want to hear at the stage you’re at but now would be the time to make the correction. 25” transom on this size and style of hull is fairly typical with the new range of horsepower available. However, a 20” will work just fine assuming it’s strictly inshore and backwater style fishing you’re looking to accomplish. To answer your question, I would not add ANY additional weight to a 20” transom by means of a jack plate and would correct the height now to 20” if you a already have a motor with a 20” shaft length. However, I would think strongly toward raising it to 25” vs 20”. Just my opinion. Either will work but it depends on your end goals.
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Thank you Ulysses. If I were to tack on 4 more inches, what would that process look like? Is it as simple as filling in the cutout with some Coosa and glassing?
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If I was in your position and set on scaping the idea of a 20'' transom, I would be considering closing in the transom altogether. However, that requires either an Armstrong style bracket or porta bracket which can be costly ($3-5kish?). I haven't seen many 19-6s with porta brackets because I believe they are more sensitive to weight. I just closed my flatback 222 in the other day by laying up the outer skin to full height to about 1/4'' thickness. It will get a Porta Bracket and weight will be distributed as far forward as I can. To answer your question, raising it 4'' ....I would cut back at least 2'' down (from the top) of the existing coosa, taper the outer skin of the glass (from the inside out of course), build a melamine mold outside the transom, and lay up the outer skin glass to full height @ 25'' against the mold giving you a flat even surface to lay the glass on. Once that sets up, I would piece in the remaining necessary Coosa @ 4-6'' tall added and then cap it really well with full sheets of glass at 1/4-3/8'' thickness to the inside over the Coosa. Hope that makes sense.
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I d9nt know if the pic is good enough to see. I am having a difficult time getting the 1708 over the corner of the transom. How rounded does the corner need to be or should I use csm?
Yeah, cloth doesn't like corners and on a 2" transom the corners are too close together to get a good transition. You can fill it with CSM to fix it cosmetically. All the strength in the transom comes from the layers of cloth before and after the core, the troweling of the glue onto the core and the clamping and then how the core is tied into the hull sides and bottom. Remember, the engine pushes on the outside of the transom to propel the boat forward. All the mechanical connections of the fiberglass between inside and outside makes the transom solid and part of the total boat. The top edge of the transom is cosmetic for the most part. The inside liner of the boat covered the top edge of the transom and hid the same problem you're having.
Now about fixing the transom height problem, my $.02 is it is easier to cut the notch down an inch and cover the top with CSM and another partial layer of 1708. The engine mounts through the transom via 4 bolts, the notch allows the tiller arm and steering tube to reach into the boat. Again, my $.02.
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the 25 inch transom is better but I have a 20 inch motor. So the setback of a jack plate wouldn't be easier or solve the issue at all? If not, what weapon would you use from your arsenal of tools to do the cutting? Did anyone happen to see the divinycell coring question? Any thoughts on that? Thank you everyone for your help.
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Rule of thumb on brackets is 1'' higher cavitation plate for 12'' back offset. Personally, I wouldn't feel comfortable running any kind of jack plate using a 20'' transom (just more weight on the transom and weight further back from offsetting the motor) other than maybe a flotation bracket. If your dead set on reusing the motor you have, I would be cutting 1'' down as Rickk indicated and be done.
The Divinycell coring is something I am doing to both my projects. I ran across a large supply of it so it made my decision easier. I think its rare to see anyone here putting anything other than a layer or two of glass back (when they scrap the liner) but I like overbuilding stuff. It also helps to build some structure and sound deadening to the hull sides.
One build you can refer to for A LOT of great information is Tampa Bay Mike. He captured just about everything IMO that could be in a build thread. The modified 222 is pretty identical to the 19-6 so most everything would apply in general practice. Here it is https://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=14797.0
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Ya'll have me thinking now about adding height to my transom. I am dead set on using my existing outboard so I will be cutting. That ship has sailed. Life is full of regrets, oh well. Glad to hear the coring idea is not a crazy one. That seems at least as easy as adding 1708 and csm on the gunnels.. in my mind the coring process is 1. Glue coring to hull side 2. Cover with csm. I would assume shaping the core to better accept the csm would be part of that process. Thanks for feedback. I appreciate it more than you know.
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What HP motor do you have with the 20” shaft? What style of fishing do you have planned? Your in Pensacola fishing in the gulf, correct? Not to make this more difficult of a decision for you but you could use a 20” shaft motor with a closed transom using a porta bracket or Armstrong style bracket. Motor shaft length will be determined where the bracket is mounted so technically either 25 or 20 shaft length motors can be used. Again, not trying to make this difficult for you but want to make sure your thinking about all the options available because these projects change direction considering how LONG they can sometimes take. I started off my ‘81 222 project dead set on keeping my 225hp ‘87 Evinrude and transom mounting it (25”) but ended up with 200hp 4 stroke Suzuki and wish I closed in the transom!
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That sounds about right. This way or that way. I dunno. If I enclose the transom, then I'll wish I hadn't because I can't get in and out of the boat when at the beach. No such thing as a perfect boat or person for that matter. To your point though, when I swamp the boat snapper fishing, I bet I'll wish I had enclosed the transom.
By the way, your 81 project was super cool. Really enjoyed looking at and learning from it.
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You could look through Blue Agaves posts - same boat as yours but all tricked out. See pics in this link https://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=13989.msg139278#msg139278
Scroll down to Capt Bob's post, he links to Blue's boat and a 196 specific thread.
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Yall are worse than drug pushers. Tempting me like that. I suspect I will spend more than I budgeted but that abyss is endless. Love that homemade tower
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Popped another stringer in the mold today. Used the packing tape release method 8nstead of lining the mold with plastic. It took longer to set up but the end result was better, higher quality. Probably took 10 minutes to set up instead of 5. I'll take a picture of the difference. My phone is full so I am having Pic difficulty right now. Phone is 10 years old? An s7 samsung. I am strangely proud of that.
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Here we go. I will get both of them side by side tomorrow.
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While ponder8ng what tool to use to cut down transom, I made this for the bow eye. This will work ? Coosa for the bow eye?
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Have not laminated the bow eye thing together.
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I think you'll find that the sharp edge needs to be rounded to fit down into the area where it's needed. You need to test fit it. As for coosa, the original in my 170 was balsa or some soft wood with a metal backer on it. So I would say coosa is fine. I used a reshaped 4x4 in mine. I would suggest a metal backer or big washers at a minimum.
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Duffy, That's about what I did for my '81 - 222 bow eye. The wood was shot and shaped like a triangle to contour the v of the bow. I remember bedding the Coosa in thickened resin and then covering it with a few layers of heavy glass. These small projects are what I found a place for the heavier 3610 woven glass that I came across cheap years ago. Its a funky little spot so just make sure its bedded well and capped well so you don't end up with moisture migration from the bow eye. I also threw an aluminum plate that I had for good measure. Ill try to attach some photos the new way.
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Thank you gentlemen for the input. Much appreciated. Speaking of the aluminum backing plate, is that what you did for your c9nsole, t-tops etc, imbed a alumin7m in the stringers in the appropriate location then screw into it. Seems like I saw a thread where someone tapped that plate and I think umechem(?) Glassed a piece of sacrificial wood down. Any opinions?
Finally cut the transom down. Set a fence up along front and back of transom at the proper depth to keep from screwing it up. Then used the grinder to remove the inch of extra material. Worked well. Will finish glassing transom now. Hopefully over 4th of July. Speaking of which I hope all of you have a wonderful 4th remembering we are a bright and can be a brighter shining light on a hill.
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Another question. As a kid, I used to fish out of a 222, took it 20 miles offshore regularly, and we would hang it from a lift from the bow cleat and the stern eyes (what are they called?). I still have the original bow cleat for this boat and it's threaded on the underside, I assume for a piece of stainless all thread. Do any of you know what all that set up looked like. I would like to put it back that way to be able to hang it (not going to hang it but want to be able to). If you can hang your boat in the air from your bow cleat, what kind of a brick poop house is that?
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Another layer of 1708. Slow and steady gets the crab.
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Also, here are the stringer sections side by s8de. You can see the one has a wrinkle in it from the plastic and the other is straight. Thinking about making a third and using the wavy one for a cross member.
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Back at it. Stringers look good! You’re looking for a bow lifting eye assembly. Google will be your friend when it comes to brainstorming hardware. :)
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Got it. I will give it a look. Thanks
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Ulysses, Googled the bow lifting assembly. Thank you.
Have at least one more layer of glass for transom, probably 2. Have some questions about building up the keel area. In the Pic withe Coosa straps laying next to keel, you can really see the ridiculous bow in it. My plan was to glue Coosa next to keel with thickened poly then lay glass 9ver the whole thing. In front of the Coosa I was going to make a bunch of Coosa squares like the balsa that came out of there so it will conform to curvature of the hull. Is this a bad idea, especially the laying glass over the whole thing?
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Here's transom
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In terms of "glassing over whole thing", think down from top of one stringer, across the center keel, then up the other stringer. I have 25 inch wide 1708 so probably 6 to 8 overlapping pieces. The majority of it is ground already. It would take a lot of thickened epoxy to fill in gaps and voids but I am leaning this way. Looking for input. Thanks everyone.
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Artist rendering
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Here's transom
Looks good.
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In terms of "glassing over whole thing", think down from top of one stringer, across the center keel, then up the other stringer. I have 25 inch wide 1708 so probably 6 to 8 overlapping pieces. The majority of it is ground already. It would take a lot of thickened epoxy to fill in gaps and voids but I am leaning this way. Looking for input. Thanks everyone.
I don't think you need to glass in the hull bottom. I would tack in the bottoms of the new stringer with some thickened resin, then lay in a good fillet along the bottom of each side - I used a homemade wooden spoon type spreader that I ground to make the radius I needed. I used big paint stir sticks and rounded them off.
You can purchase 1708 cloth "tape" in various widths or you can cut the cloth you have into tape. After you have laid in the fillets and let them kick off, I would just use tape to attach the stringers to the hull. Lay in a 3" wide piece of tape (1.5" on stringer and 1.5" on hull bottom, then while still wet, lay a 6" piece of tape over that followed by a 9" piece of tape. When that hardens, that is all you need.
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Would you scrap the Coosa core idea. What you are suggesting is way easier and that is very appealing. It was 102 here yesterday. Nothing more to say, less is better. I'm afraid to stop working on this. Possessed right now and don't want to lose it.
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It's rainy and 80% humidity. That too much? I laminate in my barn but still humid as all get out. Using polyester and no info available on Google. Lots of 8nfo on epoxy but not poly
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Duffy, have you checked to see that the keel stringer is not rotted? Typically I think I've seen that its been removed and replaced because they get waterlogged and rot. I think I have seen someone remove it all together. I wouldn't waste the coosa as you have shown but either glass right over the existing stuff or replace it with something of similar in size and shape and glass over as originally built.
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I sanded the end off the center keel to put the drain in and it was in good shape, at least in that one spot, surprisingly. The hull was cored with balsa along the keel and that's the only reason I'm considering it. Do you know if the balsa coring was factory or someone else's brainchild? There was a thru hull transducer in the back and the hull is so thin I f8gured more glass and core couldn't hurt but if it's unnecessary I won't do it. I think you're saying it's unnecessary.
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Just re read Ricky's reply and he said the same as you. That is what I'm doing. Thanks gentlemen.
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Dry fitted the stringers. I accidentally made my mold the wrong width, 5 inches wide instead of 6, but got lucky in that I left a small section of the stringers that necked down to 4 inches so they fit perfectly. Blind hogs and acorns and what not.
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Duff, seems you might be confusing yourself - maybe it's the heat ;-)
Ulysses is talking specifically about the coring running down the center of the hull. Probe it in several places - if it's good, you're good.
I'm taking about glassing the stringers to the hull. As mentioned earlier, the boat is built in layers - first being the hull, next the stringers are fabbed out of the boat (maybe at that time subbed out?) and then the stringers are glued into the hull, next the liner is installed - liner could include the hull sides and cap as one (like my 170) or could be in pieces like yours, floor/casting deck, hullside/rod holders, cap.
The stringers are made with a mold and they connected the stringers to the hull with roving, a real PITA to grind down, as you found out.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/capture_of_roving.PNG) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23963&title=capture-of-roving&cat=500)
You just need to grind down the roving about 6" out from the stringer and lam them down.
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To answer your question about the thickness of the hull, it should be about 3/4" thick in the aft.
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3/4 inch, huh? With the exception of where I laid glass to bond the transom to hull it's definitely not 3/4. I am not questioning you. You clearly know what your talking about. Just so iam clear, about two feet in front of the transom, next to the keel should be 3/4 inch thick? That is really disconcerting. Mine is max 1/4 inch, when you step on it, which I have been avoiding, it flexes considerably. I just assumed when the stringers were glassed back down it woul stiffen the whole thing up.
Next to transom, it's probably close to 3/4 is that where you are talking about? Also did you include the 24 Oz roving ad, as in use this or is that some sort of pop up? Never mind, I get it, that is the PITA stuff I ground down already.
Did you happen to see the coring question about whether that was factory or someone else's idea. I understand Ulysses said it is waste of Coosa, I'm just curious at this point.
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As always thank you for your time. I am after all a complete stranger to all of you. You're very gracious with your time and knowledge. Thanks.
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Yes, thickest at the transom and tapers down to maybe 3/8" and then as you move forward you stay at about 1/4". Hull sides are thin, like 1/8".
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3/4 inch, huh? With the exception of where I laid glass to bond the transom to hull it's definitely not 3/4. I am not questioning you. You clearly know what your talking about. Just so i am clear, about two feet in front of the transom, next to the keel should be 3/4 inch thick? That is really disconcerting. Mine is max 1/4 inch, when you step on it, which I have been avoiding, it flexes considerably. I just assumed when the stringers were glassed back down it woul stiffen the whole thing up.
Glassing the stringers to the hull bottom will stiffen it up. That's why we tie everything together with layered overlapping cloth to make it "one".
Next to transom, it's probably close to 3/4 is that where you are talking about? Also did you include the 24 Oz roving ad, as in use this or is that some sort of pop up? Never mind, I get it, that is the PITA stuff I ground down already.
I used the screen shot of the roving to show the kind of glass they used to join the stringers together and to probably build up the thickness there also. You can see the roving all through the boat.
Did you happen to see the coring question about whether that was factory or someone else's idea. I understand Ulysses said it is waste of Coosa, I'm just curious at this point.
I did see the coring question but I have not seen added coring in original manufacturing. I've seen where they added coring to add a thru hull raw water pickup or a transducer but not big chunks . Hope that answers your question.
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Indeed it does. Thanks.
Here are some more pics for future restorers and personal motivation. That is not a party sock in the pic but rather a vinyl glove which are better than nothing but nowhere near as good as latex (surgical gloves). Have a great weekend all.
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Forgot, first pic is two more layers of 1708 down the middle and out the hull on either side of keel. The pieces were 50 inches long and 25 wide, so approximately 25 inches on transom and 25 on hull. Did a couple more c9rner pieces. The best roads in AL, like hwy 25, are a series of pot holes. I suspect my boat will be similar.
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Here is actual outline of 1708 laid down
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Perhaps the last layer of glass? Before and after. Overlapped withe previous 25 inch wide sheet under the stringer which I think is a good thing but I don't why.
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Last two lam8nations overlapped the following way.
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Now you have clean glass to tie your stringers into. :great02:
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Indeed. Think I'm going to do 1 more layer of 1708 and one of csm. I've got a roll of csm 50 inch wide so why not.that will make 3 layers of 1708 everywhere plus areas of overlap and one of csm. The aft skin got about the same but no csm.
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If you remember back a few pages I talked about my transom being an inch to high, well, when I cut it down to 20 inches I only did so in the motor notch so I had about an inch of exposed Coosa with no back fiberglass skin over it. I really don't know what the hell I am doing so take this with a grain of salt.
1. Feathered the existing skin with my grinder and 80 grit on a sanding pad back about 3/4 inch
2. A lot of thickened resin in this area from transom gluing session so while feathering skin, ground as much of that smooth with skin
2a. Really delicate as the Coosa is way easier to damage than skin or remaining resin
3. Smeared a super lightweight layer of thickened resin where I felt uncomfortable grinding
4. While thick resin still wet laid 1708 on it
5. got thickened resin in arm hair
6. Just pulled arm hair off.
Obviously 5 and 6 are the key steps in this process. For real though, anyone care to comment. Did I do wrong or will that work. I will probably put another layer or 2 on it then csm. Thanks for any input.
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Is the 1708 overlapping the horizontal top of the transom? Or just on the vertical area? Hard to tell from the pic. Without the former you'll get separation where the thickened meets the 1708.
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It's not overlapping/making the turn over the top. I was planning on laying csm over the whole thing, making the turn on the front and back edges with that. I attempted turning the corner and failed with 1708 earlier so I figured I would try this. Bad idea? Thanks.
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I get it that 1708 doesn't like to make sharp turns. Have had good luck wrapping saran wrap over the glass, pulling down tight past the wet resin then taping it down. Leaves a nice finish too. But some of the corners it just won't work. The CSM will probably keep it from separating.
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Saran wrap! Magnificent. I will do that.thank you.
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just be sure to rip the saran wrap off after an hour or so before the resin is completely dry, makes the release a lot easier.
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Great suggestions from dbiscayne :thumright:
Something to think about: 1708 is for structural strength. The top of the transom just needs to be covered and faired out. I might just start with 3/4oz CSM in a couple layers and then 1.5oz to give it some thickness. Tear the edges of the CSM so it folds over the edges. To finish it off I would smear some thickened resin over the whole top, thickened with something that is easy to sand, like wood flour or micro bubbles. It'll look like the factory liner cap that used to be there. This is a pic of what my transom top looked like from the factory. The transom top and transom inside face was actually part of the liner. You can see that in the pic. The right side of the pic is where the engine cutout starts
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG0600.JPG) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16453&title=cimg0600&cat=646)
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Excellent. If I can't make one work I will try the other. I thought about getting 2 pieces of 3/4 foam toe rail like used in flooring and using them butted up against each other to make a nice rounded surface but all curves would be impossible. So, thank you very much
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If you use the transom to enter the boat from the back sometimes, a flat square surface feels secure.
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Has anybody ever treated the transom like a mold? Taped it off, laid glass, popped it off, cleaned it it up in terms of bubble and blemish removal, and then glued it back down with thick resin?
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I am not really following what you mean by a transom mold. I just built exterior skin molds and posted some updates on my threads. I understand your building your transom open so finishing it will be different but not sure what you can do different other than working the final shape with glass and then making it look good with filling and fairing. Also, now that the gallery is back up I would recommend using it because the image quality and viewing experience is much better for people trying to decipher what your depicting.
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Roger on the gallery. Transom mold explanation:
1. Take clear packing tape and tape the top 3 or 4 inches of the transom off
2. Lay glass over that
3. Pop that off after it dries
4. Fix blemishes
5. Glue back down with thick resin.
Is it a stupid idea? Probably.
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So are you thinking of building a small stringer looking piece to set over top of the transom like a cap and glue it down? Personally, I would leave the remaining transom work to using glass and then fine tuning the finish with fillers etc. If your using polyester resin like I remember, you really want to stay way from it as an adhesive (especially on the transom that receives quite a bit of stress) and stay using glass until the very thin fairing and filling tasks at the end. Your strongest bond will always be a chemical bond (wet glass on wet glass). Thickened resin should really only be used to build radius inside corners, bedding coosa, stringers, etc. Polyester resin without structural glass as a glue will eventually crack.
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Unrelated topic to previous. Does anyone know how to make gunnel tops look like mullet build, see link here https://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=13496.0;attach=1836;image
I think it's called a rolled edge gunnel. Is it more , less or same amount of work. I also like the way he did his finish work with the splatter. I assume that is more of a commercial finish to avoid finish work. What is that grade of finish called?
I am researching how to attach other people's pics. My apologies for the n9n working link
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Pathetically I cannot remember how to post the other way. More research
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Keep getting an unrevealed error message. That me or the photo database.
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Last transom vertical lamination
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If you want to post a pic when you talk about your boat, which you should, follow the instructions here http://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=12725.0 - don't attach them - you are limited by file size and guessing what size to make the file will usually reduce the pic too much. Uploading them into your "member gallery" is better for viewing and the system takes whatever size you upload and resizes it to the best size.
Spend a few minutes to absorb the instructions. It's really easy. Remember if using a phone to take pics, to hold the phone horizontal with the lens to the left.
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I think you are looking for "webbing solution" for the splatter effect.
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Thank you umecheme
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(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/20240713_160935.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=24023&title=20240713-160935&cat=500)
Posting pics is a little different now. Tried the mold idea I had for a transom cap and it worked and it didn't work.
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(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/20240713_202841.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=24026&title=20240713-202841&cat=500)
I ended up not us8ng the cap because the quality was poor, i.e. I really don't know what I am doing. Good idea though. Used the packing tape release method
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(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/20240713_160935.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=24023&title=20240713-160935&cat=500)
Posting pics is a little different now. Tried the mold idea I had for a transom cap and it worked and it didn't work.
Look at you making a cap. :thumright: That looks great. The way to install it is to use thickened resin but don't crush it into place.
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If it was only one layer, that was the problem. I think you didn't make it out of CSM, correct? You can use the tape method but use CSM: 3/4oz at first to get the shape and then another layer of 3/4 and work your way up to 1.5oz and a couple layers of that. Try to do multiple layers "wet on wet" - in other words don't mix the resin so hot. Get 3 layers of 3/4oz on the whole transom top and let it kick. Obviously you have to pre-cut the CSM and have it all ready before mixing the resin. If you have someone to help, use them.
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(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/20240713_202841.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=24026&title=20240713-202841&cat=500)
I ended up not us8ng the cap because the quality was poor, i.e. I really don't know what I am doing. Good idea though. Used the packing tape release method
You're experiencing the "1708 doesn't like corners" problem. Use CSM, you don't need 1708 for this.
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I didn't try to wrap the 1708 in that last pic, but it was about the same when I did. So far I have a layer of 1708 9n back, on top and on front. Then a layer of mat that I did get to wrap pretty good at your direction. Then another front top and back treatment of 1708. I think it will work as is but I'm going to do another layer csm like you suggested. The front lamination on the transom is easy 1/4 thick at this point and everything is solid. Pretty excited about the whole thing.
Was fitting the drains in for the stringers. Cut 2 inch pvc in half lengthwise and was going to smear thickened resin down each side to attach to floor . Is that the norm? I assume the goal is water tight stringers. I am leaving an inch or so out either side of the pvc to allow for glassing. I did not put them 12 inches out from transom like the drain. Hope that's not a mistake. Thanks as always for everyone's input.
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Yes on the water tight stringers - but hopefully theres never water in the hull where those would be needed. I did the same thing, left about an inch of pvc sticking out the side to make a good seal. During the build before the deck was on I did manage to get water in the boat that needed to drain, there was always a little that didn't drain because of that 1 inch. Ended up trimming as close as I could to the stringer without messing up the seal.
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So far I have asked about almost everything and everyone has been very responsive. Thanks. My instincts are usually close to what all of you recommend, which is encouraging, but sometimes complete mind blank and always a little off. this bunch is quite the security blanket. Here is where you saved my rear:
× would have screwed the stringers up badly
× and the drain too
× csm between the Coosa transom boards
× many many more
Thanks
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(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/20240715_154300.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=24029&title=20240715-154300&cat=500)
Stringer lamination port side. Had about a foot plus of overlap of old stringer under new which I smeared thickened resin on. Should be solid as all get out. On the inside had about 6 inches of overlap but they were separated by about 3/4 inch so a piece of Coosa smeared both sides went in there. Then laminated stringer to floor with 6 in strip of 1708 on both sides.
On another note to would be rebuilders, if you can rig some roll up like the pics for your 1708 and csm do it. I always forget a piece and have to race in there to cut . Can't imagine not having those rolls like they are.
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(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/thumbs/20240715_154205.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=24027&title=20240715-154205&cat=500)
Rolls
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/20240715_154244.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=24028&title=20240715-154244&cat=500)
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(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/20240715_154205.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=24027&title=20240715-154205&cat=500)
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I've had some beverages. Been ciphering on the boat. All boats are a compromise. Been thinking of different layouts:
= flat deck from bow to stern, no casting decks
= original layout but with deck raised 1 1/2 inches front and back
= front and back casting decks level with the gunnels. Back casting deck with splashwell and livewell built in plus space for batteries
and 5 gallon buckets, cast nets, etc. Pit in between would have side scuppers.
So many decisions. Probably will do the easiest which is what? What is the easiest? Each casting deck represents a bulkhead opportunity which I want to incorporate in some fashion. Good night everyone.
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I still go thru all those questions!
Like the idea of the first alternative but you lose a lot of storage, even with a coffin box in front of the console.
A modified front casting deck in a U shape like an older 1980's Mako is a nice compromise, with a removable deck to fill in the U when you don't need seating.
Rear deck is nice for sitting but if I'm fishing off the back of the boat I prefer to be standing on the deck.
Check out what Aquasport had for the 17 back in the '70's.
(http://)
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The u shape idea is a good one. I have access to yeti coolers at cost (wish I could extend the offer but I cannot). Wonder what it would take to make the "u" perfectly recieve 1 or 2 yeti coolers side by side or otherwise? Wonder if it would be possible to make the latches accessible, etc. Etc?
Also, the cabinets you made appear to be the best solution to rigging wires etc. Is there a reason you ran your rigging tubes inside the stringers as opposed to outside. Are there any other considerations to the cabinets or things to avoid. If I do not do a back casting deck, I am leaning towards the cabinets. Really look good and functional. I assume that was a mold scenario?
Is there a thread, blue agave, yours or someone else's that details putting gutters in the deck. I saw the thread about hatch gutters, is it basically the same? I have got to find a cheaper solution for the deck other than Coosa. Coosa was my original plan but I am already about $2000 in and 9nly the transom and one stringer are complete(ish). Thanks as always. Hope to post some pics this afternoon if I get anything done.
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Oh yeah, cool back casting deck.
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Plascore is a decent alternative to plywood but doesn't hold a screw, ways around that. Cheaper than Coosa.
Deck gutters are handy but not necessary, keep the non skid a couple inches from the edge of the deck helps the hose blast the mung on its way.
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(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/20240716_172922.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=24031&title=20240716-172922&cat=500)
You can see the overlap on the stringer to transom extension. Got the starboard stringer tabbed and glassed in this afternoon. Also a picture of a 30 gallon barrel to simulate a livewell perhaps. I've had too many beers the last two days. The South is hot and every year, like Christmas, it surprises me and every year it makes the coors lights taste even better than normal. Looks like another deep hike into the mountains will ensue.
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(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/20240716_081951.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=24030&title=20240716-081951&cat=500)
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Does anyone know off the top of their head how deep a splashwell has to be for yamaha f115?
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(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/20240716_172922.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=24031&title=20240716-172922&cat=500)
You can see the overlap on the stringer to transom extension. Got the starboard stringer tabbed and glassed in this afternoon. Also a picture of a 30 gallon barrel to simulate a livewell perhaps. I've had too many beers the last two days. The South is hot and every year, like Christmas, it surprises me and every year it makes the coors lights taste even better than normal. Looks like another deep hike into the mountains will ensue.
When tying things in, you should use at least 2 layers of cloth and vary the width - either lay a narrow strip and then a wider one or a wide one and then a narrow one, When done wet on wet they melt together so it doesn't matter the order. Typical widths are 3,6,9" or 4,8,12"
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Does anyone know off the top of their head how deep a splashwell has to be for yamaha f115?
Not sure I understand question. Do you mean from the top of the cutout? Or from the transom going forward?
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Transom going forward. Cant find any dimensions on web and motor is not here. The layering is key I've learned from you. So far I've got 2 layers on port side and one on stbd.
I keep oscillating between fabricating a 1000 different things to what's the quickest easiest. My latest lazy thought is tiller handle, deck chair one level deck. To that end, I assume after stringers are complete it's rigging tubes and fuel tank? Have a great day all.
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Do you want a splash well or a drain trough? Splashwell takes up space in the aft. Trough collects water from the deck and drains it through the scuppers. A trough allows you to seal up the deck so water doesn't flow into the bilge. If you are looking for the measurements of the engine cowling, you should be able to call and find that out. Here is a 2023 Yamaha outboard spec sheet. https://www.yamaha-motor.com.au/discover/outboard-tech/outboard-motor-dimensions
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Thank you for that web site. 27 + inches if I read it correctly which is what I remember the measurement to be. The pictures of the back casting deck you sent appear to have a splashwell about that size.
If no back casting platform:
Because I am raising the deck 1 1/2 inches I was planning on cutting scuppers even with the deck with flaps over them on the outside with no trough. I am counting on the raised deck and decreased overall weight from Coosa transom, 40% lighter, and water logged foam removal, 100 lbs maybe lighter, and lighter deck to cause the boat to float a little higher. Wasn't going to cut them in until floated the boat upon completion. That is a long way off I fear.
Albury has an interesting splashwell that someone on here copied. I have seen donzi center consoles from the 80s or 90s with "splashwall" and side scuppers added . If memory serves those donzis liked to sink from the stern, thus the splashwall and side scupper installation. As discussed before lots of tradeoffs and compromises.
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Couldn't sleep so laminated at 3:30 am. We are a weird species.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/20240718_044857.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=24033&title=20240718-044857&cat=500)
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When I get home from work, will glass this.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/20240718_035843.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=24032&title=20240718-035843&cat=500)
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The layup schedule on the inboard stringers was 2 staggered layers of 6 inch 1708. One is 4 inches on the stringers and 2 inches on the hull and the other is the opposite. That was an accident was supposed to be 9 and 6. Oh well. Covered those with a 12 inch strip.
On the outboard side did 6, 12 , and 25 inches. Overkill but I'm doing it anyway. Have a great day all.
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This stuff is hard work. The only way to do it is in hundreds if not thousands of short steps. You’re getting it for sure Duffy!! Good stuff! I’ve have my share of late evening glass layups. It’s the coolest time of the day (especially in summer) and makes for more even surface temperatures so I actually prefer it (primarily because I don’t have a shop though…haha). Keep up the good work and before you know it you’ll have a working boat.
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(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/20240718_185348.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=24068&title=20240718-185348&cat=500)
Port side done
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/20240718_185448.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=24069&title=20240718-185448&cat=500)
On to next side
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Looking good :thumleft:
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I'm getting a little better at this. I am putting a 1/2 inch vent hole every 20 inches or so where glass transitions from one plane to another. It really helps to have somewhere to push bubbles. I'm sure it's frowned upon by purists but it is so much easier and makes the lamination so much cleaner and quicker. Stringers are super solid and not even finished glossing so pretty stoked.
Rick, I assume you used your stringer mold to make the cross piece in your build? Perhaps modified it a little?
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(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/20240719_211453.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=24075&title=20240719-211453&cat=500)
Stbd side done. On to cross stringer.
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I made a separate mold for the bulkheads - it has one 90 degree side and one angled side. I placed the bulkheads fore and aft of the fuel tank with the 90 degree side inward toward the fuel tank. You can see the difference in this pic
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/IMG_2803.JPG)
Your stringers are not very angled so you can probably use the mold you have.
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(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/20240722_200008.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=24086&title=20240722-200008&cat=500)
Cross stringer. We'll see how it comes out. 3 layers 1708 with 2 extensions sandwiched between 1708 layers meant to extend to keel on each side. See pics. Pretty sure that doesn't make sense.
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Makes sense to me. You'll want a way for any water to flow under the tank and out to the rear bilge.
This is what I did
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0686.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0687.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0689.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0694.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0697.JPG)
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I looked at your build and was actually copying it and another one that used a bigger piece of pvc to bridge the keel. Great info. Thanks. Will probably try to pop it out this morning..
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Yes, the tube is two coffee cans taped together for the mold. It will be the drain tube for the cross member.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/20240723_165435.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=24088&title=20240723-165435&cat=500)
Cross member
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/20240723_160736.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=24087&title=20240723-160736&cat=500)
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I will cut the tube in half.
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(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_4300.jpeg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=24089&title=img-4300&cat=500)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_4301.jpeg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=24090&title=img-4301&cat=500)
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Will clean the ends up and glass to the hull over the keel after I cut out to fit the cross stringer. Then the cross stringer will go over the tube and it will all be glassed in. Don't know how I turned that Pic upside down and don't know how to fix it. My apologies. Have a great evening all.
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I tried to fix the picture and can't - not sure what is going on. EDIT: Now it seems to be ok :scratch:
Is the tube going to be a support for the fuel tank or fuel tank cradle? Just trying to figure out why so big.
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Tube will be cut down some. it was mainly built so large to span the keel and because I stupidity built that rectangular keel span. Don't know what I was thinking when I cut that shape into my glass.
In the corners where the stringers meet there is that gap, aboutan inch. . In my mind I was just going to put 3 layers of 1708 right over it. Do I need to do thickened resin first? I need to mix up some thick res for bow eye anyway. Thoughts would be appreciated.
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You can take the bulkhead out of the boat, cut the tube down as desired, use the new cut down tube to trace it's outline onto the bottom of the bulkhead (where the rectangular one is/are), cut along the trace and glue the tube into the cutout using thickened resin. I would cut the tube off flush with the ends of the bulkhead and seal it up with resin if needed. To install the bulkhead into the spot needed, you can tack it in with thickened resin all around. It would be best to run fillets of resin along the edges of the bulkhead to make it easy for 1708 to roll between the angles involved. Finally, use 2 overlapping pieces of 1708 to glass the bulkheads in the position desired. That will make the connection stout.
Hope that makes sense.
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It does make sense and thank you. As an aside, I peeled all the old resin and random fibers off my wet out table and it makes a pliable skin. I am thinking about using the "skin" in lieu of thickened resin. Probably won't use it because it has a lot of junk, dead bugs and God knows what else in it, but it is an interesting concept. It's really pliable. If i purposely went about making "skin" that would be useful. Peeling it made me think of peeling sunburned skin, thus the skin designation. Thought I would infect your brain with that crazy thought.
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Another question. After bulkhead do I install control and wire runs then gas tank or the opposite, tank then runs? I assume foam stringers after that then build stringers higher with Coosa or fence posts.
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I would dry fit the tank and make sure it fits ok. Are you planning on a forward bulkhead?
Are you going to use the trough coming up the starboard side? The troughs are good for routing just about everything from the aft to the console. One bummer about the trough is it get pretty funky in there after a few years. The trough was designed to give you a way to route wires and cables above the bilge yet under a cover. The original boats were designed to keep water out of the bilge and the trough was part of this system.
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I was planning on putting pvc pipe through where the trough is to the stern corner where I would have cabinet in the back like your build. I was only planning that instead of the trough because the trough was part of the deck draining system and I cannot abide putting wires in a drain. Also I cannot imagine how to build it, so there's that. I am having a tank made at a place called bmc metal works in columbia tn (south of Nashville). Haven't received a quote yet. When I do will post info on site for future reference
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(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/20240724_2002391.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=24094&title=20240724-2002391&cat=500)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/20240724_1959441.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=24093&title=20240724-1959441&cat=500)
Got sucked int another project. Son going back to school and we are putting a front deck on his jon boat. Replaced an 11 foot whaler with the jon boat. Anyone want to buy an 11 foot whaler. It's in columbia tn but I can get it to orange Beach al if need be.
Got the tube cut height wise will trim the front so it does not protrude into the fuel coffin area. Thinking I will leave an inch or less in the bilge area to provide more area to glass to.
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(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/20240725_150036.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=24096&title=20240725-150036&cat=500)
Glassed in bow eye with 2 layers 1708. One bigger than the other. Also glassed in the tube but did not get a pic of that. Tabbed in front of bulkhead. Good day. May get some more here in a minute.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/thumbs/20240725_150017.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=24095&title=20240725-150017&cat=500)
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(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/20240725_150017.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=24095&title=20240725-150017&cat=500)
Copied wrong link
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Probably need another layer 1708 for bow eye?
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You could add another layer but I would make it wide enough to extend past the edge of the coring by maybe 1.5-2" only. Maybe a 4" wide piece of tape would do it. Looks good though.
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Thank you Rickk . Glassed the bulkhead corners last night . Will get some pics.
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I noticed the fuel tank coffin in most of the builds appear to be fully enclosed. Why is that or did I see it wrong? Some of the posts indicate they put a drain plug in. When I tore this boat down, the tank was just laying in the bottom with a bunch of foam poured all over it, so i don't have anything to copy. I get the idea of keeping the tank away from moisture and abrasion but do not understand enclosing the fuel coffin from other parts of the boat specifically the rear bilge.. Seems if fuel gets in the coffin it is arguably the same danger as any where else under the deck. Any insight or is that just the way it's done which is fine too?
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not sure what Aquasport did from the factory, but Grady Whites include a drain through the rear bulkhead of the fuel tank coffin that dumps into the rear bilge, no plug, for the outboard models and they also don't foam the tanks in. Inboard models keep the coffin area isolated.
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That makes sense, actually.
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To add a little to the context, The biggest danger to the tank, if it's metal, is water. The drain hole is to let any water that gets in, to escape to the bilge. Hopefully there will not be any gas leaking from a new tank.
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No joke on a leaky new tank. That would be a real bummer.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/20240727_102955.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=24097&title=20240727-102955&cat=500)
Bulkhead fully glassed in. Very solid.
On the front bulkhead, does anyone ever use a piece of Coosa or ply and extend it it high enough for the front casting deck to rest on? I was either going to get rid of the front deck or make it bigger and taller. I throw a cast net a lot and think I will miss the casting deck and it would be better taller. Thoughts are always appreciated.
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Bulkhead looks solid. Also, the top of the transom came out nice.
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Thanks Ricky. I appreciate it and the tutelage prior to it coming out the way it did. Does anyone ever use a piece of Coosa or ply for the front bukhead and make it tall enough for the front casting deck to lay on?
I was looking at the 196 gull with the console against the casting platform and thought how cool it would be if the center of the bulkhead, however wide the console is, were tall enough to be the front of the center console. Seems like no advantages to doing it though.
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I would stick with making another bulkhead and glassing it into the stringers. This will help with fighting twist as the hull moves through the water. It will make the stringers, bulkheads and the hull itself all one. Plus it will allow you to seal up the bilge from the top of the deck. I looked through all your pics and I can't see one that has a casting deck in it. Do you still have the original?
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Think it was dbiscayne's . I will look for it.
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Original console layout of the 1971 Gull model, and underside of the console shelf.
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Did you keep that boat? Looks extremely fishing, beer drinking, diving, swimming,etc functional, but looks can be deceiving
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Yes still have it I'm a hoarder of boats. In the process of moving the console back just a bit, not as far back as a traditional center console but the forward Gull layout induces a lot of motion when it's anything more than choppy. I will say this - when anchored and fishing off the back it's a great setup. But if someones casting up front and you're driving it's duck or bleed time.
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Dry fitted tank. When I removed this tank it was not strapped down and had foam all around it but no coffin so it's nose stuck out of a mountain of foam Into empty space so I really have no guide. I do have pics fr9m Ricky's build and others. Looking for the must haves like bottom supports that allow air flow. I do not know what's important. Where does the vent need to be in relation to the fill and fuel pick up etc, help and thanks.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/20240730_154021.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=24099&title=20240730-154021&cat=500)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/20240730_154013.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=24098&title=20240730-154013&cat=500)
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You said that you are having a tank made, is it a duplicate of the one you show? Did you take measurements of where the original was before you took it out? What I'm getting at is the placement of the tank affects the way the boat sits in the water and the center of gravity. You built and installed a rear bulkhead. What told you that is where it should have gone? When I built mine, the original tank was above the tank, so I had no hints at where my new under the deck tank was to go.
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Answers to your questions:
# I put the rear bulkhead where I removed the old one from. Exactly where it came from.
# I did not take any measurements on old tank because it was just laying in the bottom, no straps, foam randomly poured all around it, etc.
# I am having a duplicate tank made because it is the right height, width and capacity
# if you look at the rigging troughs on the starboard stringer and compare them to tank measurements you can Infer where the tank should be "ish". For instance, the fill tube goes through the trough angled towards the front, so I am guessing the forward end of the tank ends roughly there. The tank is 66 inches long and happens to fit perfectly between the rear bulkhead and the forward angled rigging trough
# was hoping to glean some info by scouring the 196 rebuilds
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Oh yes, for sure dbiscayne, hoarder of boats. I know the feeling. In my barn right now is a 14 aluminum jet boat, another 14 foot aluminum jon boat, an 11 foot whaler (which is for sale) that was my first boat when I was 7, I'm over 50 now, the aquasport 196, and 3 other boats at different locations. Really need to consolidate but wont.
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I was looking at the forward rigging trough. If you were to install a bulkhead just ahead of the tank I think you would have to make it lower than the top of the stringers to allow the fill hose and vent hose . I'm not sure that would be a bad thing though. Assuming you're mounting batteries inside the console, you could also route heavy cables up forward under the deck, to power a trolling motor. As for the tank support you could build ledges along the sides that the tank can sit on. Maybe like a 90 degree (or less) corner that you would glass into the stringer and hull bottom. Maybe make a bracket like the letter pi and glue them onto the bulkheads near the upper part of the tank and also along the sides of the tank. You can purchase 1/4" foam rubber to cushion the tank. People have put foam rubber along the bottom and then it sat in water which caused corrosion and pitting. Up on the brackets should be fine. You can use the slot in the brackets to route what you'll be using to tie the tank down. Just thinking aloud.
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Where does the vent need to be in relation to the fill and fuel pick up etc
Always thought the vent should be a little lower than the fill so that it spits fuel out of the vent before it backs up and spills from the fill tube but maybe thats just a coincidence that most I've had are setup this way? Probably doesn't matter much if the tank vent fitting is at the front vs. back.
I relocated the pickup to be at the rear of my tank, figured that would be the lowest point if I were to ever get down to runnin on fumes.
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You mentioned a ledge. Look at the pic on the right side. Your idea or some variation was exactly what I was thinking based on there is already a small ledge built there. You bring up the vent and fill also. I was simply copying what was there but that is probably a bad idea considering the tank was loose in the bottom. Makes me question what I am doing.
You've participated in many of these discussions, where does everyone else put the fill, vent, and supply?
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/20240718_185348.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=24068&title=20240718-185348&cat=500)
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Also, the tank isn't built yet, so I can put the vent, fill, and pickup wherever. For whatever it's worth, I am having four baffles put in the tank. Can only see two from the hole I cut and estimated 2 more. Does anyone know different on the number of baffles?
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As you've mentioned, the notch out in the stringer ahead of the fuel tank was where AS ran the fill hose and vent hose from the tank to the starboard hull side and were mounted to the top of the cap. You might want to orient the fill pipe toward that side.
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Definitely going to run them that way. I am making what I believe to be rash assumptions about the fill, vent and supply line location on my tank. Am I over thinking this? I assumed this was the original tank, but that's stupid. No way tank 50 years old is still in there. Anyone know if it matters or where the original positions of these tank elements were located.
Think I am going to copy dbiscayne on locating the pick up to the rear and take Ricky's advice and angle the fill 30 degrees to the right. Ricky, I am sorry my spell check keeps calling you Ricky. That is not my doing.
Dumb question, what does the sending unit do? Is it a fuel pump or just a fuel gage? Can't believe I don't know that.
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The 222 I used to fish had a clear inspection plate and a manual fuel gage on top of the tank. Bet I can't get that anymore. Was that the sending unit?
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Yes that was a very simple mechanical sending unit w gauge mounted on top and I think you can still get them. My first gauge was a stick. Most sending units are either a vertical shaft with a float that slides up and down but you need to get the right length for your tank depth, or it will have a hinged rod that sticks out with a float at the end that moves up and down with the fuel like the old style toilet tank float, this style is more easily adjustable to different depth tanks. The rod magically converts its position to an electrical signal for the gauge. They all seem to have the same 5 screw mounting pattern.
https://www.moellermarine.com/product-category/fuel-accessories/fuel-senders-gauges/mechanical/
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So the sending unit doesn't send anything anywhere. That's fun. Well I guess it sends information. Thank you for the info. I looked at the link and sure enough, mechanical sending unit. Think I will forego the sending unit. Most of the boats I have run in the past either didn't have one or the one it had didn't work. Tank is 50 gallons. I bet I end up getting 2 mpg or about 10 gph running. Anyone have rough fuel burn numbers for these hulls with 115 4stroke? 9gph seems high. Did I do the math right?
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If you're having a new tank built I'd at least have the hole drilled and put a sending unit in. Gauge is up to you but I wouldn't want to drill that hole later on with the tank full of gas.
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I would like to be able to see how much fuel I have left, rather than guess. Even my RV uses a mechanical sender (hinged rod) that uses resistance to limit current provided by the gauge. I had to replace it after 20 years due to bad spots in the resistor - read wrong from full to about 1/2. Below half it was ok. Senders are cheap and if I were you I'd get one installed near the aft, by the builder. One less thing to worry about later.
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Roger that on the sending unit. Surely most of the new electronics have a plug in for the sending unit. I will research that and maybe save the console from having another hole drilled in it.
I am having trouble uploading picks of my rigging tunes but the question is an easy one. Are the tubes usually glassed in or is there some other way they are attached/stabilized? I guess it would be easy enough to use aluminum straps to bolt or screw them to the stringer sides or glass them. Rick, I know yours were run through the stringers thus stabilizing them that way. Any thoughts or is that about the gist of it? Here is what I picked up from the site so far:
> dremel the edges out of pvc joints/turns
> avoid 90 turns if possible
> run the fuel line in its own tube
What else am I missing?
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(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/20240801_164852.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=24107&title=20240801-164852&cat=500)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/20240801_164814.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=24106&title=20240801-164814&cat=500)
Something like this
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I couldn't get the outboard control cables through a "90" I had to use a "45". Might want to go with 3" pipe and it was tight getting the cables to get around the bend.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0746.JPG)
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I used electrical conduit at my bends, 45 and 90 degree bends both worked out just fine. Can get the shift cables through the 1.5" diameter, steering cable went through a 2" conduit 90 degree pretty easily.
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If the control cables are the only thing going in the tube, then I'd agree. I have control, heavy battery wires, hydraulic lines, fuel line, all kinds of wires.... I have 2 tubes going aft, one on each side.
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(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/20240802_184322.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=24108&title=20240802-184322&cat=500)
For support. Will glass that in and put a hole saw to it(first)
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Don't know what happened to that picture
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Pretty sure I can fit two tubes thru that.
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Before you commit, try running a control line through the pipe. There is about an 8" section (if I remember right) that is hard to get through.
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(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/20240803_184428.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=24109&title=20240803-184428&cat=500)
Other project done. Son's boat is done. Super fun building it with him. Glassed 9n the 196 upside down. Have a good evening all.
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I take back what I said earlier about where to mount the vent relative to the fill. Seems that if the vent is much lower than the fill you could end up spewing a lot of gas out of the vent before you realized whats going on. Maybe the right answer is to put them as close in height as possible.
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Does anybody just make that hole side for the cables and not put tubes in there. That pattern of the bilge is technically not supposed to get water in it. I still have the box that went over the bilge air supply. It could be where the cables come out if I put it on the starboard side.
Good info on the fill and vent dbiscayne. Have not gotten my quote back yet from fab shop for tank yet.
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(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/20240814_173310.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=24113&title=20240814-173310&cat=500)
6 and 12 inch wet on wet
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/20240814_172100.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=24112&title=20240814-172100&cat=500)
Down center right of keel. Will do port side tomorrow
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Boat is off center by about 2 or 3 inches. Look at the fuel tank step and the space between it and the keel and the difference from side to side. Interesting, that's all.
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Got the quote back from bmc metals and it was ridiculously high, over $4000. Getting another quote obviously. Would rather put gas in my hands than pay 4k.
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Good to see you keeping at it steady Duffy. What did you have quoted? Last time I had one quoted it was about $18/gallon.
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If I did the math right it was $80 / gallon. I'm in tn and the place I went does lots of big industrial jobs. Think this was their way of saying they didn't want to do it.
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Yeah, try to get something done every day. Kids are going back to school, went on vacation in orange Beach for a week with them and the Mrs so been slow few weeks in terms of the boat. Got 2 gallons of A B foam, 1 a and 1 gal b. What can I expect out of that in terms of stringers? Should be able to get at least one stringer, surely? Any insight?
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Finished the other side tonight
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/20240815_182945.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=24114&title=20240815-182945&cat=500)
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I got a crazy high quote for a below deck tank as well. I was told that the long skinny thin tank was much more expensive because they were basically charging per inch of weld. Long means lots of welding...
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I guess the $10/gal price is only a pipe dream now. :scrHead: You could always go to Moeller and price a poly tank. Also check a marine surplus place for poly tanks.
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Got new quote for fuel tank at $1800 or 36 per gallon. The difference ensions are 66 inch x 21 wide x 8 inch high plus fill which was an additional 3 inches.
Pouring foam in stringers shortly.
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(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/20240816_152824.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=24117&title=20240816-152824&cat=500)
Not really a lot to see. Poured foam in port stringer. Here are key takeaways
1. A gallon of part A and a gallon of part B ALMOST fill an entire stringer
2. I threw all over pour/spillage scraps into stringers
3. If you were to ever make a time capsule, this is the place
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(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/20240816_152757.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=24116&title=20240816-152757&cat=500)
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Also, big pours are better, at least 24 Oz of a and 24 Oz of b for a total amount of 48 Oz.
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Yes, I was advised to put squares of plywood that had been taped on one side with packing tape, over the holes in the stringers. Secure the wood over the holes with duct tape. Then mix a big batch and pour the foam mix into the rear most hole. The foam will travel forward as it expands and fill the stringer.
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(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/20240817_170846.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=24121&title=20240817-170846&cat=500)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/20240817_170814.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=24120&title=20240817-170814&cat=500)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/20240817_162226.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=24119&title=20240817-162226&cat=500)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/20240817_162215.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=24118&title=20240817-162215&cat=500)
I used my old gas tank as a plug for a stern corner cabinet for the rigging to come up through.
How many layers of 1708 do I need or should I core it or something? Suggestions would be a huge help. Right now it's 2 layer 1708 and a layer of mat.
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(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/20240817_124842.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=24122&title=20240817-124842&cat=500)
I used scrap 1708 so kind of Frankensteinish but it worked.
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I put the wrong pic in there. It looks crooked because it is. I fixed that. Mostly anyways
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(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/20240817_165145.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=24123&title=20240817-165145&cat=500)
Here is the corrected one
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The box looks good. It's not a structural thing so the 3 layers you have lam'd for it should suffice.
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I guess it will be mostly under the cap so no one will step on it etc. I wonder if I can fit a fuel filter in there? In my m8nd I am waiting on the fuel tank so I am not doing a lot of other stuff. What could I be doing? Should I grind and lay mat on the sides then maybe put stiffening ribs in, say at 4 feet and 8 feet from the transom? I should probably start on the cap or the console too
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(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/20240819_191847.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=24130&title=20240819-191847&cat=500)
Laminated stern cabinet in and foamed starboard stringer. What should I be doing while I wait for fuel tank? I am kind of mentally stuck. Guess I could raise stringers. I am thinking there is an order of operations and if it's not followed that would be bad. Someone please kick me off the fence.
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You could paint the bilge where you'll be able to see it with white 2-part epoxy paint. You can then mount the bilge pump and route the plumbing/wiring. You can solidify your plan and put it in place to route wires and hoses from the console back to the aft, even if it's just on paper. You could start making the 4x4 or 4x2 plastic fence posts to raise the floor.
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Back at it. Gonna need a livewell somewhere. Perhaps as a leaning post and if I do it that way, going to need access to bilge area. Thus the pics.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/Screenshot_20240820-071338_DuckDuckGo.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=24137&title=screenshot-20240820-071338-duckduckgo&cat=500)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/20240821_143520.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=24134&title=20240821-143520&cat=500)
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When I cut the notch out 9f the bulkhead for the livewell exhaust I noticed the angle of the bukhead wall was roughly the same as the transom. I am thinking gutter. Did any of you raise your deck and not put a gutter back in?
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/20240821_144506.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=24135&title=20240821-144506&cat=500)
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One thing to understand about your floor where it meets the transom is that no matter how/where you put scuppers in, the water will not go there and you'll have puddles that will drive you nuts. I have 3 scuppers and they are at floor level and the water still pools around the sides of the hole. That is why I mentioned a trough at the transom. Then you can drill 2-4 scuppers in the transom and if the water doesn't all go out, who cares, it can't be seen so it will not drive you crazy. I know a guide that rebuilt his 196 and that is what he did, I should have copied him.
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Great info. Thank you. Do you think thickened resin then glass over the top and from the bottom would get it done? That's my plan any way.
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Not sure what you're trying to do. Is that something to hold the gutter? When I say trough (what you call gutter) I'm thinking all the way across the back, so you don't need that piece.
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I made another stringer last night. I am going to cut it to fit between the the stringers to serve as the trough/gutter. The matching trough/transom angle is circled. Think I am going to 5200 the area where the transom and trough in addition to tabbing with 1708. The 2nd Pic is a screen shot of bolt pattern description for mounting the the engine. I am assuming if I place the trough to utilize the original supper holes I will not have an engine mounting bolt issue?
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/20240822_195657.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=24148&title=20240822-195657&cat=500)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/Screenshot_20240823-060431_DuckDuckGo.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=24149&title=screenshot-20240823-060431-duckduckgo&cat=500)
Seems like the above may be helpful to others
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Spell check is maddening. Scupper holes. That piece of Coosa holding up the small section of upside down stringer was left over from the transom cutout and had the right"ish" angles so I cut it to fit from the keel to the transom. I am still on the fence on whether to use it or not but used it told that example trough piece in place. Not really part of the plan right now. It could be useful to mount bilge pump bracket to.
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If the dimensions on the 19-6 is the same as on my 19-1, you're going to have problems the way you have it mocked up. The well on mine is 4" deep to reach the bottom of the original scupper holes, and my engine mounting bolts are a couple of inches above that (so like 2 inches below the original deck). If you raise the stringers, and leave the bottom of the well sitting across the top and even with the stringers, I don't think it will work. I bought an engine mounting jig from a guy on Ebay for $50. You can see where the bolts lie in reference to the original scupper holes, and as I mentioned, those scupper holes are like 3 inches below the tops of my stringers. I think Rick is suggesting putting a small trough across the entire transom to deck seam to collect the water and channel it into the well so it can drain out the back.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/20240818_172031.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=24127&title=20240818-172031&cat=500)
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Kinda. I was thinking of having the scuppers in the trough but your idea is a good one, like a dual depth trough. If using this concept I would raise the trough a little on each end so the water can't sit anywhere but in the well and go out the scuppers.
I think you were concerned with self baling and I don't know if you'll accomplish having the scuppers so far down the transom.
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I am going to utilize the original scupper holes and put the trough deep enough to utilize them. That is sound advice, thanks.
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Got a leaning post I think I can use if I make a box. Also, started dry fitting the trough and mocking up the deck height with random Coosa pieces,
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(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_3180.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=24152&title=img-3180&cat=500)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_3185.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=24153&title=img-3185&cat=500)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/20240823_163707.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=24150&title=20240823-163707&cat=500)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/20240823_163725.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=24151&title=20240823-163725&cat=500)
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I was going to use the same pvc insert as the drainplug for the scuppers.
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Leaning post looks good.
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Leaning post is a lot redneck but so am I so am going to go with it. I was not planning on cammo and black metal, but free is free. I am from the South, for Pete's sake, we wear cammo to dinner parties.
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What happened to the gallery. Everything has changed. Trying to upload pics but screens are all different. Anyone have any insight?
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(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24157-4425-20240826184300.jpeg)
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Felt the deck would need support across the gutter. Will tab the gutter to the transom and the support to the gutter and the stringers. Should be solid. Decided to go with Coosa to raise stringers. I had the material, so I am moving forward with it.
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(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/0/24112-4830-20240826184319.jpeg)
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With this new gallery format that just appeared, I noticed I only have two pics actually in my gallery. Anyone have any insight as to where I posted the rest of pics from? Seems like the site just got tablet friendly or something. Before, I pressed enough buttons to make the pics appear in my thread, but I don't really know what I was doing or where I was downloading them.
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(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/Screenshot_20240827-074446_DuckDuckGo.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=24158&title=screenshot-20240827-074446-duckduckgo&cat=500)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/Screenshot_20240827-074423_DuckDuckGo.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=24157&title=screenshot-20240827-074423-duckduckgo&cat=500)
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I just joined, and i read the entire thread so far. I am in the stages of figuring out what i am going to do with my 196.... I can see this will be a huge learning curve for me and these threads will help!
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Welcome aboard NCSportfisher :a0003:
Duffy, the designer just told me that you should have all your images now. Let us know if you need help finding them. I'm learning the new gallery too.
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(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24180-1024-20240827174223.jpeg)
Shockingly, all my work is ever so slightly off a little bit so will have to make some adjustments here and there but starting to make sense. Plan is to bed the first layer of Coosa on top of stringers in thickened resin, lam the 2nd layer of Coosa to the first with mat, grind or router all the edges round (probably do that before laminating), put a layer or two of 1708 over all of it.
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:thumleft: Looking good.
Question: Where, if anywhere, will the water pool up that you're trying to drain off your deck? And it will.
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Answer to your question Rick, but first, welcome ncsportfisher. Feel free to ask questions directly on my thread. I put all this stuff on here so people m8ght benefit from it. Rick, ulysses485, umecheme, tampabaymike and more have all been ridiculously gracious with me, so any way I can help, let me know.
Rick, I suspect water will pool in the stern corners and the corner by the rigging tube box thing. I have a question for you. Do I need to add anything to the stringers for mounting consoles leani g posts, t-tops, etc. Also is there some compelling reason to not glass your console to the deck and forego screwing or bolting it? Do people do both? Also, should I use some sort of bonding putty or construction adhesive to bed the stringers in? A whole caulk tube of gorilla glue construction adhesive is only $10 +/-. Can't imagine what 5200 would cost
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I can now imagine the cost of a caulk tube of 5200. It is $31.99 on the site I looked on.
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Pooling: If it were my boat (and I wish I had done this on mine) I would figure out a way to cut off the last bit of the deck, as wide as the trough and starting at the port hull side and the box you made and I would have those deck pieces drop/slope about a 1/4" toward the trough and glass everything together. You won't lose any structure if you glass it well.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24181-5990-drawingofdrainingdeck.png)
As for planning how you secure the console, leaning post and even your t-top you might consider using these. Use 1/4-20 thread. Mount them from the bottom coosa up through a hole you drill and also small holes in the bottom coosa for the spines to slide up into. To keep the threads clean I bought 1/4-20 all-thread and cut the all-thread into 3- 4" pieces and screw them into the t-nut.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24182-7733-T-nut.png)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1792.JPG)
You mentioned you are going to lam another layer of coosa on top of the one shown - drill a matching hole through it for the all-thread and when you figure out the deck material drill matching hole in it too. You should use one of these for each hole in the console, leaning post and t-top. Yes a lot of work but they will never come loose, the t-nuts would have to be ripped thru the coosa and all the layers.
When I rebuilt my console I cut off the bottom flange and made a toe-kick all the way around it
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1696.JPG)
Since I didn't have a flange anymore I had to figure out how to attach the console to the fuel tank lid. I made "L" brackets and used the t-nuts to secure the "L" to the lid and the console to the "L".
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1784.JPG)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1783.JPG)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1845.JPG)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1846.JPG)
I used these on my leaning post but I don't have the faith in their retaining power that I have in the t'nuts when the t-nuts are installed from the bottom up. They are called threaded inserts.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1065.JPG)
This pic shows the all-thread coming up through the leaning post.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1791.JPG)
When you install the leaning post you replace the all-thread with 1/4-20 bolts - I used countersunk head.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1852.JPG)
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I was considering not doing a fuel tank hatch but the advantages of mounting the console to it and access to all the rigging are many. From the looks of your gallery it did not appear your fuel tank hatch had a channel, only a lip and I'm guessing you used silicone or 4200 and screws to waterproof and secure it?
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Originally my tank was above deck, inside the console, so no need for a hatch. '72 or '73 is when they started to put the tanks under the floor. When I rebuilt everything I found a poly tank I could fit under the floor, hence I needed a hatch. A lot of the Aquasports had what looked like a hatch but really wasn't, more like a "where to cut to access the tank" line. My hatch actually mounts to the stringers and the bulkheads. No channel. Sealed with 4200 - it's not permanent and non-yellowing.
If you install a new tank or a poly one (which should last forever), you shouldn't have to access the tank, so no need for a lid. I opted for a lid.
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Roger on the lid. Looked like the lid made it easier to deal with rigging. I will kick that can. Laminated the stringer "risers" together. No pics. Not much to see. Looks like the other pic a few back but with a layer of mat you can't see.
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(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24192-6025-20240831154456.jpeg)
Working on a "side stringer" for the deck to rest on. We'll see how it comes out.
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(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24193-2555-20240831154857.jpeg)
Here is the stringer riser on the starboard side with the channels. I suppose I will glass on the underside of the channels. Do I need to put a layer of 1708 on the underside of the risers? I know it won't hurt but if unnecessary I have plenty of other work.
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(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24194-4526-20240831154445.jpeg)
Put a steel fence post on the riser pieces to weigh it down for proper bonding of 2 pieces of Coosa with mat in between
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On the side stringer, will need to match the curve of the hull and make sure it's the right height. I am going to look at Ricky's build gallery. Can anyone suggest other photo galleries or member builds?
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(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24195-4262-20240901123438.jpeg)
This not the way to do it. I created a lot of grinding work. 1708 will not go around a corner if it doesn't have a long tail. In the rigging channels it did not have a long tail.
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(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24196-3799-20240901144838.jpeg)
Will tab around all the joints including underneath. . Upside down glassing is always a crapshoot for me.
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(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24198-3119-20240901085646.jpeg)
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Forgot to post this pic of the side stringer/deck support. Probably should have done a 75° angle instead of 90°. Going to make it work. Haven't been able to find any pics or info on how everyone tabbed deck to hull side? Suggestions on how or member galleries to look at would be appreciated.
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I didn't put a side stringer in. I glassed the floor right to the hull side because I was going to drop the liner back in and cover it all up.
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(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24199-7478-20240902145510.jpeg)
More progress. Tabbed trough in and glassed some more of the starboard stringer riser. Starting to look righr
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(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24200-6986-20240902145357.jpeg)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24201-1922-20240902163723.jpeg)
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Rick, that is good news about the side stringer. I will not be putting the liner back in. Does it matter in terms of the side stringers in your opinion?
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I think the side stringer probably adds rigidity to the hull since originally it was part of the stringer system that was set into the hull and also supports the deck.
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(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24203-7832-20240903175024.jpeg)
Peanut buttered the port stringer down, glassed the remainder of starboard down.
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Rick, I’ve been thinking about the water pooling thing in the stern where my gutter trough is and am thinking some sort of slope like a portion of a pyramid only longer and flatter. I am going to cross that bridge when I put the deck down. Got my tank today looks great. $1800 though, ouch. There goes my budget. The guy who did it is in Elberta AL. I would be glad to share his info if anyone in the mobile Al to Pensacola Fl area is looking.
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I hope you understood the drawing I made to show how to slope a portion of the deck on each side. a 1/4" side to trough slope is enough to drain the deck.
If you received plans/drawings for your tank you can post that and the builders info in this thread https://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=11420.0
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(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24237-8293-20240908175220.jpeg)
Got my tank. I did understand what you were talking about with the corner slope. Thank you for the Input, very helpful
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Ok, I'm confused about how your tank was made. What are we looking at in the pic of the tank? I see a sending unit and 2 other things - 1 I assume is a fill pipe and the other? Maybe the vent? or the pipe connection to the engine? Maybe what I think I am seeing as a fill pipe is actually the outbound pipe to the engine?
If we're looking at a fill tube, is the fill tube on the correct side? Usually the fill hose and vent tube are on the starboard side. Reason I ask is I see a lot of pictures lately that seem to be flipped 180 degrees vertically, which makes for example, people you know that are right-handed (watch on the left arm) now have it on the right. I am not sure if it is a camera thing or a mode that pics can be taken (like regular or selfie). So please enlighten me - is the pic flipped or are you running the plumbing from the port side?
Trust me I have not been drinking :singing:
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Drinking or not, you are seeing it correctly. It is the fill and the vent. The fabricator zip tied some fabric over the openings to keep dirt dobbers and debris out of it so it looks a little weird. The guy built it based on pictures and measurements I sent him. They are located where I wanted them but the angle of the fill is the wrong direction. I may be running them to the port side. It's just one more thing to do.
Laminated some tonight on port stringer.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24241-6692-20240910181732.jpeg)
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Ok, so I wasn't seeing things. Going out the port side is not the end of the world. I have mine going out the port side.
Is your sending unit right there too? If so, do you know what kind of unit they installed? Is it an offset float or one that is directly below the unit? Also, where is the output to the motor? Out of our sight, on the other end of the tank?
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Sending unit is out of picture at stern of tank. Adding some storage under the leaning post seat. Used the corner of the old fuel tank. Will need to make a side but will do that this w÷kend. Laminated some more of Port stringer
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24242-1284-20240911185443.jpeg)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24243-6182-20240911184612.jpeg)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24244-4841-20240911183821.jpeg)
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Not sending unit. pickup is out of sight at what will be the stern of tank
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To your other question, I do know what type of sending unit was installed.
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Reason I asked it that with the sending unit in the bow end you won't get a good read on the amount of fuel, especially when cruising. I see you cut open the old tank, what kind of float did the original have?
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It had the toilet bowl type with the float on an arm. Finished the leaning post storage and glossing the "Coosa risers" on top of the stringers. Baseball bat solid. I had one section of glass I was unhappy with but not enough to grind out. I found it is near impossible to grind glass off Coosa without damaging the coosa.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24275-4307-20240914082425.jpeg)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24276-1006-20240914082353.jpeg)
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This tool is helpful for angels and it was cheap. Get one if you don't have one
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24280-190-20240915145107.jpeg)
Tank fits. Should I support it from the bottom? Currently it has a point of contact on each side mid tank and the back corners appear to touch the hull. I was thinking something like below in each corner or a tube down the center. I have some solid rubber mats I was going to incorporate.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24281-5126-20240915144700.jpeg)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24282-6731-20240915151407.jpeg)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24283-5729-20240915151138.jpeg)
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Tube or build piers out of Coosa blocks and rubber mats
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I would use 3 tubes across to spread the weight across the width. They should be beefier that what you show, maybe 4 layers of 1708. One or two of the layers can be what you use to wrap and attach to the hull. If you are going to use short ones like shown, I would use 4 or 5 rows deep. The height of them will be different as you move forward and aft. You want a little angle toward the aft to keep the fuel to the aft.
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I talked to the fabricator of the tank and he recommended the tube method or the glassed in pier at each corner of the tank method. I felt my skill set lent to the pier method. Here is my stab at the front piers.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24286-3145-202409171823120.jpeg)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24287-2750-20240918153332.jpeg)
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The piers are 4 inch squares of left over Coosa from the transom laminated together with a layer of mat in between each layer. I used 4 pieces of 1708 on each vertical plane of the pier after I bedded the piers in thickened resin. The "horns" ar to keep the tank from moving forward. They are mostly gassed in. I'm not finished. Probably will give another layer of 1708 or 2 all around. Where the tank's dog ears (?) mount to the stringers I have added 3 more layers of 1708 or will. There will be a total of at least 5 layers of 1708 plus multiple layers of mat. Should be pretty stout
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These boats are NOT square, the level Pic is included to let anyone in the future know there is not a great way to "prove" accuracy. You will be eyeballing lots of things. The stringers at the bow and stern are level and that is what I am going off of. Is that the correct way? I don't know.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24291-5379-20240919185928.jpeg)
The other pics are of the fuel tank mounting apparatus. Most use pvc tubes cut in half and that is a great. Probably the way to do it on most boats, but my boat's keel is off 1 1/2 inches from bow to stern so I opted for piers to mount the fuel tank on as depicted 8n the pics. Is it right? Sure, or it's not,. I will find out hopefully over the next 20 years.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24292-6727-20240919161709.jpeg)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24293-2962-20240919161716.jpeg)
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The guy who fabbed the tank said he has installed tanks both ways with success so I am not terribly worried about it.
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You've come a long way since post 1 in fabricating stuff with fiberglass. Looks good.
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Kind words Rick. Thank you.
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Dry fitted. There are areas, top of the piers, on the Coosa where there is resin but no glass. They will be covered with gorilla glue ultimate construction adhesive which, according to the label, works on aluminum and fiberglass, underwater, is flexible and gap filling and is only $12 a caulk tube. First, does it matter that there is only resin in some areas and second, does anyone have experience with this gorilla glue product? I have used their foaming glue and it is amazing, but this is not that.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24297-8241-20240920164132.jpeg)
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(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24298-2096-20240920163233.jpeg)
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Tank is in glued with gorilla glue construction adhesive "ultimate" underneath on the the piers and where the dog ears meet the stringers. It is also screwed to the stringers. Guess we'll see how solid it is the first time I pound the boat over a wave.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24307-5489-20240923174059.jpeg)
Does anyone know how to fix one of these. Seriously, need some advice or link to a good thread on here. Questions like,
?can I lay it flat on the concrete floor and record it
?should I use Coosa to recore or go back with plywood
?if I were to reconfigure, like an anchor locker, is now the time
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24308-6143-20240923183731.jpeg)
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Also, should hull stiffeners be tabbed to tthe bottom or wait and tab to the deck
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You should make sure the cap still is in the proper curvature - don't flatten it or it won't fit anymore. If you have to, put it back on the boat now to make sure it still fits. Then add any bracing to keep it in the proper shape. If you think it needs the coring replaced, you can use whatever you want to recore it.
Not sure what you are referring to as to stiffeners.
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Roger on the shape. It looks like only sections of cap are cored. Like a two foot section is cored then there is a one foot gap then two more feet cored, etc. I dont really know what to ask. Perhaps my real question should be, is there a thread on here with some pics you can think off the top of your head?
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Go to google and copy the next line and paste it into the search box, and then press enter. Change the wording at the beginning of the line to get the results you like.
recoring the cap +site:classicaquasport.com/smf
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Working on the forward bulkhead for the casting deck. Used h80. This stuff is light. Almost as expensive as Coosa. We'll see how it performs as a bulkhead. The advanced plastics (store) people did not recommend it for decks. Apparently its compression strength does not lend itself to that type application.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24312-8169-20240928141143.jpeg)
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I guess when I put the cap back on permanently, I will glass the cap to the transom. Can anyone think of some reason not to?
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24327-7533-20240929164945.jpeg)
This is my plan for stiffening the hull sides. There's the one in the pic which is even with the aft bulkhead, another 4 feet forward from there, then the front bulkhead will be 4 feet forward from there. The outer deck rail will run through and be integrated to the stiffeners, The hull sides should be solid as heck with that set up.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24328-4625-20240929165304.jpeg)
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Looks good. Be sure to spread the load of those stiffeners, an isolated hard spot along a flexible panel can cause problems down the road. Fillets and wide tape to make the different structural components work nicely together.
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I was thinking 8 inch strip of 1708 on each side. Do you think that would do it and should I do 2 layers? Thanks for the input. It is much appreciated. Also here is the lamination of the h80. Very resin thirsty stuff. I hope I saturated it enough. That's the first time I've used it. Does anyone have any pointers for diving cell I need to know about.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24330-39-20240930181445.jpeg)
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Forgot, this is how I made the form.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24331-3824-20240928132749.jpeg)
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Reinforcing the cap where you are going to be stepping to get onto the boat is always a plus - so adding new coring in those places. I add reinforcement where cleats are going to be. I used pop-ups so I used either about 6-8 layers of 1708 (makes about 3/8" thick glass) or I used composite (coosa) like you saw in the pics of the front of the cap. My front was bowed upward I guess for it to shed water, see if yours is. Will you be adding a trolling motor to the front of the boat? You'll want to add coring there for thru-bolting.
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It definitely has a slight crown. I don't really like the small section at the bow. It looks like mounting a trolling motor would be space challenged. I am thinking anchor locker bulkhead with a slight crown, new bigger cap area for trolling motor. It's not even 8am, why am i thinking about this now, what the he'll is wrong with me?
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You have the fiberglass bug - happens to all of us ;-) Have you checked out removable mounting brackets like the RTA 17 for Minn Kotas? There are solutions for small areas.
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Will leave the cap alone if I'm smart. Glassed the other side of the forward bulkhead and cut out the starboard rod holder hull st8ffener thing.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24332-1301-20241001170831.jpeg)
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Front bulkhead glassed and another set of stiffeners cut out.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24333-1190-20241002183156.jpeg)
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The starboard stiffener is cut low for the rigging tubes.
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In the process of glassing the hull stiffeners. Putting a layer of 1708 and Matt on each side. Haven't decided whether I'm going to try to round and wrap the outward edge or something else
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These knees take forever. Not hard to do but time consuming. The rear ones are two pieces of Coosa glassed together with 1708 and mat. The bow ones are made of divinycell with a layer of 1708 and mat.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24348-4298-20241007182107.jpeg)
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Hopefully glassing the knees and deck rails (supports for deck to rest on) this week. Getting cool here but very doable. Temps are in the 70s and 40s.
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5200ed the deck rails to the hull sides. Once those are cured will glass the knees in then the front bulkhead
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24366-4067-20241022155459.jpeg)
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5200 takes 48 to 96 hours to cure. I was unaware it took so long.
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Started to glass the deck rail and glassed the deck support to the front bulkhead
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24367-8455-20241023173113.jpeg)
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Bulkhead
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24368-7074-20241023173100.jpeg)
Also, starting to co template the console.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24369-1976-20241023173403.jpeg)
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Bulkhead tabbing process has begun.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24370-1837-20241025164127.jpeg)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24372-7447-20241025164104.jpeg)
4 innch layer of 1708 followed withe a 6 inch layer 1708. Plan is to do the other side tomorrow
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Anchor locker/hatch question. Any builds on here that are the go to for for hatch making. I am contemplating putting an anchor locker but cannot imagine the the hatch. See pic.
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(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24400-7094-20241027170228.jpeg)
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(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24398-8360-20241027170450.jpeg)
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Any ideas or recommended builds to look at for weird shaped hatch making? Anchor locker hatch is a head scratcher. I have some ideas but suspect others may have better ones.
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Added a thru stringer pipe for bilge pump hose to go thru and laminated casting deck supports
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24401-5812-20241028154350.jpeg)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24402-4281-20241028144111.jpeg)
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I will cut that pipe off
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Scan My rebuild for anchor locker I made.
https://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=14350.0
Not suite if link works. :scrHead:
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Rear knee is where the rear part of the deck meets the front portion of the deck so a wider area is preferable or at least that's the theory.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24422-5033-20241102104801.jpeg)
Here is a better picture of contemplated anchor locker. McAllister, thank you for the link. Very helpful.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24423-749-20241031181223.jpeg)
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Can I use Honey comb for the anchor locker bulkhead? It is so much cheaper.
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Sure can't imagine why not. Just keep in mind the need for future screws into it which the honeycomb won't work so good with. And beef up the laminate schedule if needed. 2 layers of 1708 ea side with 5/8" honeycomb makes a strong panel, the thicker the honeycomb the better.
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Good info dbiscayne. Thanks. I'm using 3/4 hcomb for parts of my deck and will now use it for anchor locker too. Thought I would cut out areas where hinges etc go and replace with Coosa before I laminate it. Or something like that.
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I wouldn’t recommend honey comb for bulkheads that bear a significant amount of weight or structural tie in. However , up there under the front deck it should be fine.
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design looks pretty cool. Great idea
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Thanks for the input mcallgeyver. It will be structural for sure but in conjunction with a lot of other pieces that come together at that juncture. I'm going to give it a go.
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Glassed in the rear support knees
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24429-5466-20241105143609.jpeg)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24431-6904-20241105143618.jpeg)
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Cut out the honeycomb. Makes me think of sugar smacks frog.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24432-1583-20241106152943.jpeg)
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I'm thinking a 10 by 30 inch hatch on port side. Been looking at all yall's threads. Very helpful
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First stab at hatch. Layers: Matt, 1708, 1708, 1708 scraps in all the corners
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24433-8744-20241107192748.jpeg)
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Looks good. Have to figure out how to drain the gutters.
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Thought I would run the tube to the area in the bilge right next to bilge pump or perhaps to the deck gutter (probably not that). Having used the plastic instead of melamine as a base, it's pretty rough. Can I simply put a layer of Matt on it and grind/sand appropriately? Also, I bought a piece of melamine to make the hatch, what if anything can be used as a releasing agent substitute. I don't really know what releasing agent is and suspect it's not available here anyway. Can I use Vaseline or Pam or something like that. Do I even need to use it? I'm not laying gelcoat first on the melamine.
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Another question, obviously the deck will have have a hole cut in it to drop the gutter system in to. Do I laminate first then glue/lam the gutter on top of glass or drop gutter in then laminate over it? Seems the first way would be better and easier.
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Yes, you can add mat to give you a sandable surface or even a 6oz cloth.
When doing a small project you can apply clear packing tape on the melamine as a release agent.
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I added the mat and I think that will clean it up. I ended up not using any releasing agent and it popped off the melamine no problem. I did use the packing tape in the angle aluminum and it also worked great. Here some more pics of the hatch project. No particular order.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24434-4996-20241109174132.jpeg)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24435-1495-20241109091413.jpeg)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24436-3030-20241109162736.jpeg)
Also, still working on anchor locker
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2 layers 1708. Hatch will obviously drop into hole.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24445-4244-20241111164518.jpeg)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24446-2403-20241111164417.jpeg)
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I know I didn't great contact on my hatch. I forgot to put a weight on it. I'm going to let it ride until it falls apart. I bet it doesnt.
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B9ught a 9 pound Danforth like anchor at bass pro. It will barely fit in the locker but it will fit. Hope I can accomplish this project.
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Cut the end off a brass fuel nipple and ground down . Thinking about making it a hatch gutter drain. Will 5200 it down.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24447-6045-1000000352.jpeg)
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Glassed the other side of the deck tonight. 2 layers 1708.
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Took another stab at mocking up the anchor locker.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24463-3940-1000000353.jpeg)
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I think I am going to attach it to the hull and not the cap? Both maybe? Input would be appreciated. Anything that comes to everyone's mind. No bad ideas.
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Deck section and hatch complete...ish. front anchor locker bulkhead cut out.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24464-2943-1000000355.jpeg)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24465-4347-1000000354.jpeg)
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Anchor hanger. Putty all the corners smooth, then tape the whole thing. I don't have a great feeling about this one.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24507-4372-1000000359.jpeg)
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Lots of corners, crevices, tight spots to try and glass there. I've never had much luck with wood longevity in these situations unless each part was coated, glassed, then assembled.
Is that 1x4 going to stay as part of the permanent build? Looks like its yellow pine? If so might want to rethink that, probably won't last long. Spruce or Hickory would be better water resistant.
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The wood will not be part of it. I am going to put packing tape all over the wood and use it as a mold. The wings on the side will be where the anchor hangs from.
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Hopefully I can get the mold out of it
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24514-596-1000000361.jpeg)
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You might have to destroy the mold to get everything released. Looks good though.
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Mold destruction was the plan. The last lamination on the anchor locker bulkhead got a bunch of brown streaks in it that follow the glass filaments that don't want to cure. It was rainy and 80 + % humidity the day this was lam'd. Is this a humidity failure? Any 8nsight as to what I did wrong?
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24520-7399-1000000362.jpeg)
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Was glad to see you post again Rick. Was a minute since your last one. Hope you are well. Classic aquasport is the first forum I participated since the 90s. Don't really know how to act online. Surely well Wishing is fine.
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Who am I kidding? I don't know how to act in person either.
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Was glad to see you post again Rick. Was a minute since your last one. Hope you are well. Classic aquasport is the first forum I participated since the 90s. Don't really know how to act online. Surely well Wishing is fine.
I am fine, thanx for the checkin. I don't want to stifle the other members that have other viewpoints and experiences. The more the merrier.
I am glad to see you getting better at looking at things in the negative aspect, meaning so you can see molds in your mind. It's not an easy thing to do.
As for the streaks in the cloth - the more important thing is that it didn't harden. That's a concern.
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It got colder and I haven't adjusted the MEK amount. Perhaps that's it.
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You really have to make sure you mix the poly and hardener very well. Scrape the edges and bottom of the mixing tub and then mix, mix, mix all the while watching your time. That's why I like epoxy - more time to mix and apply.
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It also started with a new bucket of poly. Do you sometimes get a bad batch?
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Poly starts hardening as soon as it's produced. Distributors buy in 55 gal drums and resell at smaller batches. Once the drum is open and air gets to the poly it's just a matter of time before the drum is hard as a rock and full of crystals. If you want real structural strength epoxy is something like 200 times stronger. You get slow, medium or fast hardener and with slow, you might get a day or more of working time. Medium is normally an hour or more of working time depending on the temp. Just don't leave it in the bucket too long.
https://www.uscomposites.com/kk121.html is a decent place to buy from and they ship all over, but the freight is expensive due to weight. They are in Ft Lauderdale FL. Check out what they have and compare to your source.
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Glassed some on anchor locker. Will post when I get back from Thanksgiving. Happy Thanksgiving everyone.
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(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24533-4671-1000000374.jpeg)
Will glass it into bow this afternoon with at least 2 layers of 1708 on all joints maybe 3 in certain areas. Should be solid.
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Coring the anchor hanger with honeycomb. Put a layer of mat down, wet it out, then the honeycomb, a finally some 1708. Have more to do but leaving some options open by not glossing the whole thing. Kind of waiting for inspiration in doing.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24534-5466-1000000375.jpeg)
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Okay, a while back I started having lamination problems with the polyester resin I have been using. Most people seem to be using vinyl esters or epoxy so I thought I would share this info. The problem I was having was small sections of a fresh lamination would not cure, turn brown, basically bite rear end. The weather changed from hot summer conditions to cold winter conditions (above 80 f every day and night to below 60 f every day and night) and I did not adjust the amount of MEK catalyst enough. The poly, unlike epoxy, is more forgiving and actually needs fairly radical adjustments of MEK. For instance, when the temperatures were above 80 degrees I would use 10 or 11 CCs of catalyst per quart of resin and it worked perfectly. When the Temps dropped I added a cc or 2..... not enough! The expert at advanced plastics instructed me to go to at least 15 CCs per quart maybe higher. I will report on future outcomes soon.
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Here is a picture of the appropriately brown section of bad lamination.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24520-7399-1000000362.jpeg)
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Good info to share
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Getting there. Rigging tunes dried in but not done. Two more deck pieces cut and dry fitted.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24535-1905-1000000378.jpeg)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24537-5458-1000000377.jpeg)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24538-5847-1000000376.jpeg)
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Will have to make bilge hatch I suppose.
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Duffy, you have hit some major milestone and are doing an incredible job! coming along way building molds and such! Way to go! I have learned to love poly but have to share my MEKP chart that I got back when i started in 2019 which reflects all the different temps etc. Its from a boat builder and has never let me down. There is in fact quite a difference between 60-80 in CCs of MEPK needed. My only fail has been with what i am almost certain to be glass that was damp that I didn't realize. You can see that in my 240 build. I have been working on the transom for my 222 flatback and 240 and glassed with success in 55 degree weather.
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Thanks for the kind words Ulysses and Please share the chart. Just checked out your 240 thread. Last post was July. Any updates? It's looking good.
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Here it is Duffy. I typically have it on my phone or a printed copy and always reference it throughout the layup. I even adjust as the cooler evening temps set in. Its not advised to work in anything lower than 60 but I have with good results. Typically, I make sure that the following day will have high temps above 65. I also don't like to leave the part out for potential dew to set on it. Its amazing how well a simple tarp covered/enclosed (all sides) carport will help protect the boat from dew onset from the evening cool/moist air.
The 240 & 222 flatback should get the transom core "glued in" soon. I have to update but typically like to with bigger changes and photos.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24539-5270-IMG9156.png)
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Ulysses, thank you so much for the chart. That's huge.
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The collar will fit behind the bow combing pad. I will finish glossing it but it will never be seen again once installed.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24553-3382-1000000385.jpeg)
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The collar on the back will fit behind the bow combing so it will never be seen
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Dry fitted anchor locker. I think to install this thing I'm going to have to:
1. Glass bottom part in totally with 2 strips, 4 and 6 inches, around all edges inside and out
2. Remove cap, partially at least, to access the front
3. Put anchor hanger part on dry
4. Put cap back on to insure correct angle
5. Glass outside edge of vertical and horizontal to maintain proper angle (see pic with 2x4 and allthread)
6. Remove cap and glass inside of horizontal anchor hanger part and possibly glass in some knees braces
Any suggestions? What am I missing?
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24554-5668-1000000386.jpeg)
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Also glassed 2 layers 1708 and layer of Matt on starboard deck section.
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2 layers 1708 9n other side of deck piece. Will get pics after it cures
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Dragging my feet on glassing in rigging tubes. They are about where I want them. Pushed some test cables through them. All good for that..
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24581-1690-1000000391.jpeg)
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Really ugly glass job but hopefully I will never see it again. Rigging tunes installed for better or worse.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24600-8521-1000000392.jpeg)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24601-990-1000000393.jpeg)
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So, how many drain holes in each rigging tube does the community recommend? They obviously need to be in the lowest spot, but after that I am at loss for the number of holes. Right now I have 2 holes In each tube at the 45 degree tu=n.
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I poured 2lb foam under my deck between the stringers except against the transom where the tubes were. Added about a 1/4" hole at the very back/rear end of the tubes just before they bend up, this was the only area not foamed under the deck where my tubes ran. Have a 1" drain at the bottom of the stringer against the transom connecting the cavity to the bilge. Just made sure I sealed the rigging tubes real good where the wiring exited so hopefully I don't get any water in there.
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Roger that. Perhaps I will just seal them extra good.
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Glassing the center section of the deck. layer of 1708 and layer of mat on the top.. Should I do 2 layers of 1708 I n bottom?
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24602-8155-1000000398.jpeg)
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2 layers on the bottom will stiffen up the whole thing
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Gracias mi amigo. I will do that
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Glassed layer of 1708 then started running low on resin and could only get one additional 25 inch wide strip down the middle. I suspect that will work, but we will see.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24603-5547-1000000399.jpeg)
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Anchor locker and rigging tube snorkel pics.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24604-1304-1000000402.jpeg)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24605-4057-1000000403.jpeg)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24606-5071-1000000400.jpeg)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24607-1555-1000000401.jpeg)
The rigging tube snorkel is just an idea but it would work well to keep water and other random items out of the bilge. Your thoughts would be appreciated. Merry Christmas everyone.
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Finally glassed the anchor locker in.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24614-5081-1000000404.jpeg)
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Looks good :clap01:
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Forward storage floor cut and glassed some on the cap to fix the holes from I m the rod holders. Forward storage should hold two 5 gallon buckets and a 45 qt yeti cooler. Used two circles of mat, a layer of 1708 and a layer of 4008 (super heavy) on rod holders.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24629-7844-1000000407.jpeg)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24630-2772-1000000406.jpeg)
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A little more glassing to do on anchor locker. Deck is coming along.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24631-8145-1000000409.jpeg)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24632-2643-1000000408.jpeg)
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Happy new year everyone
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What does one use to glue the deck down. I think something thick and voluminous would be my friend to compensate for inconsistencies in my work which are many. What is bonding putty? Should I use 5200, gorilla glue construction ultimate or bonding putty?
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You can use any of those. I used thickened epoxy.
Here is an example of bonding putty
https://www.amazon.com/Composites-Structural-Polyester-Bonding-Putty/dp/B0CRZCYW1Q/ref=asc_df_B0CRZCYW1Q?tag=bingshoppinga-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=80814295522342&hvnetw=o&hvqmt=e&hvbmt=be&hvdev=c&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=&hvtargid=pla-4584413765801681&psc=1&msclkid=8ab0850c36281d0e187ce27561c6877f (https://www.amazon.com/Composites-Structural-Polyester-Bonding-Putty/dp/B0CRZCYW1Q/ref=asc_df_B0CRZCYW1Q?tag=bingshoppinga-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=80814295522342&hvnetw=o&hvqmt=e&hvbmt=be&hvdev=c&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=&hvtargid=pla-4584413765801681&psc=1&msclkid=8ab0850c36281d0e187ce27561c6877f)
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Working on cap
Not grinded
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24633-2055-1000000411.jpeg)
Grinded
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24634-2747-1000000412.jpeg)
Rod holder holes etc patched
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24635-116-1000000410.jpeg)
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Too cold to glass the last couple of weeks so am working on other items. In this case the thru bulkhead for the fill and vent. Yes, the fill is pointed the wrong way so did what you see. Hope it works. I am going to try and plumb, wire, test run and check for leaks before I glass and glue the decks down.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24641-2335-1000000413.jpeg)
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Had some geometry issues with the back portion of the deck where the stringers attach to the transom. I angled the stringers down slightly which was a mistake. The deck panels are so rigid there's no way I can hope they will conform to the shape so I am in the process of building then up with scrap Coosa. Will post some pics upon completion
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I looked back through your thread to see the junction of the stringers/transom. My advice, based on the mistakes I made/didn't forsee, is to cut a 3" deep x 3-4" wide notch in the stringers right where they join the transom. Then glass in the cutout to seal up the stringers. Then plan a "gutter" to fill the notch. You'll have to modify the new deck. This gutter will be used to collect all water from the deck and funnel it out the scuppers. You'll be so glad you did, especially if you leave you boat on a mooring. Think about and it may also fix the problem you have with the gap you have to fill.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/20240801_164814.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=24106&title=20240801-164814&cat=500)
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I gave a pretty lousy description. From the bulkhead to the transom the rear stringer angles down and has a slight crown/bend. I thought the panels would have more flex and would thus conform to the shape. No dice. My lack of experience with th the panel rigidity doomed me from the gambit. One of the issues I built in was trying to slope the deck towards the gutter. I had the angle perfect, but again, my efforts were for not. I have a fix that won't be terribly difficult. I did add additional glass to the corners where I think water will pool to add elevation. Should alleviate the problem. I like your idea though. May add that any way.
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The good thing right now is you haven't yet drilled your scuppers. Adding a trough will drop the scuppers lower so you can get rid of the water. if the scupper let in water it can't go anywhere except right back out.
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In retrospect I did add a trough along the transom on your advice but only between the stringers. You are saying extend it all the way to the hull sides or there about? Have to admit, that would be better than what I have but I am a little scared of it.
This best Pic of existing trough
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24240-8302-20240910181732.jpeg)
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That may be wide enough - the goal being to give any water a place to go and drain out the scuppers. Looks pretty deep front to back, like you could twist an ankle if you step in it ;-)
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Gotta have some way to separate the true mariners from the land lubbers. On my geometry issues, there is a 1/4 to 1/2 gap between the stringers and the deck right at the deck to transom joint. Would bonding putty, applied generously, to the top of stringers in that area adequately fill that gap?
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I would think so. We've seen pretty thick bonding putty applied to the top of the stringers.
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I would agree with you on the bonding putty. I asked msteinkampf the same question cause he has a picture of a can of the stuff in one of his recent posts. Perhaps he has first hand, recent working experience with it.
At any rate, glassed one side of a piece of honey comb that will serve as the forward storage floor under the casting deck. Also grinded on the cap some more. Forward coring was predictably a mess. Rotten all the way to dust, plus previous structural damage. Should be pretty straight forward though.
Old core
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24642-238-1000000415.jpeg)
Uncored
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24643-964-1000000414.jpeg)
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Added drains to the anchor locker. White holes.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24646-3495-1000000417.jpeg)
Floor in under casting deck storage area. Will add more floor or will bulkhead up fr9m there. Haven't decided yet.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24647-3682-1000000416.jpeg)
Grinded more on cap. This boat was wrecked at some point. Hard to tell what they did to fix it. Notice one vent hole larger than the other and bow core only partially encapsulated.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24648-4251-1000000418.jpeg)
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In the previous pics. The anchor locker drain holes are 3/4 pvc glued in with a healthy amount of gorilla glue construction adhesive ultimate. I don't know how it lasts but seems to be pretty stout stuff. The panel is 3/4 inch honeycomb with a layer of 1708 on each side and a layer of Matt on the topside.. put a thin fillet down all the joints then used 2 strips of 1708 4 and 6 inches to tab it in. Had a random piece of 1708 laying around, that is what you see lam'd in the center bulkhead. It was there, I had extra resin, it got laminated. I hate wasting resin. Lots of random pieces of glass have been stuck on this boat. Did most of the inside of the rail with random glass and left over resin.
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Decided to add a little more floor. Thought it efficient to use the existing bulkhead from the anchor locker and gain additional space.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24649-4854-1000000420.jpeg)
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The plan
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24650-8006-1000000420.jpeg)
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Drain hole in forward storage
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24651-8752-1000000422.jpeg)
Pieces lam'd for storage area
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24652-3440-1000000421.jpeg)
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Lam'd other side of storage floor tonight. I think the install schedule is this:
1. Glass honeycomb on top of stringer (wedge shaped pieces)
2. glue forwad floor piece to above stringers
3. Glass floor to anchor locker bulkhead, hull sides and everywhere else I can
4. glass in vertical piece between upper and lower floor
5. Fit and glass in vertical stringer bulkheads for sides of storage and casting deck support
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Sounds like a good plan.
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I sent mcallgeyver this same post as a question as he has fabricated a casting deck.
Here are steps I am contemplating for a casting deck:
1. Melamine lay up table big enough for whole casting deck.
2. tape down gutter plugs
3. releasing agent
3. Layer of mat (minus hatch area)
4. Layer of 1708
5. Honey comb core weighted down, wait to cure
6. 1 or2 layers 1708 over core
Comments are invited and appreciated
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Duffy, you are just moving right along! Great to see a build with consistent updates....unlike mine...LOL..
Regarding your casting platform I would definitely go the mold route! I haven't set honeycomb down on a mold but I would be curious how well it it does dry on a wet laminate. I almost feel like setting it up with a layer of 1708 and a layer of matt that you grind down a little would serve better to set in the mold of the casting deck. Either way, I am curious of your findings because I am planning to do this with my entire deck of my 240 with gutters and hatches etc.
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Sure enough Ulysses. The deck is a month or so off. Will need to wait for the weather to lighten up a little. We don't have long winters in tn but we do have them. Highs in the 20s today. On a lam that big I would want lows at least in the 50s for a few days.
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Been thinking about the deck core and what Ulysses said about laying dry core on wet. Think I will put a layer of mat on the honeycomb and then lay it down wet on wet and weight it down.
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Guess what grinding in cold weather does just like hot weather........ it sucks. Ground the bow area in preparation for glass8ng in storage bulkheads and floor.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24667-5870-1000000425.jpeg)
Before or after grinding
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24668-7684-1000000424.jpeg)
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You're getting closer to buttoning it up. Yup, grinding sucks :old01:
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Rick, or whomever, what did you do to your honeycomb in areas where you screw or bolt deck hinges or anything else for that matter. Is extra glass enough? I still have some 4008 (40 Oz stuff) I could use. Surely that would do it.
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Duffy, because I have a bunch of this 1'' honeycomb material I have done a lot of research on it. However, I have only laid up one panel for a fuel tank compartment bottom.
With that being said, I read somewhere where someone drilled out the topside laminate of glass, stuck the short side of an Allen key in the hole and spun it on a drill to sort of create a void. You just need to make sure you don't poke thru the bottom when making the hole in the top so it doesn't drain thru the bottom. Once that's done, you can fill it with thickened resin or a strong filler material that you can fill up in a big syringe so its solid thru. Haven't tried it myself and its another step that comes with using honeycomb board material but seems like it would work pretty good. This might likely happen after finishes are complete (when laying out) so I would throw down some masking tape (to protect the finish) around the areas that are getting hinges and do them all in one shot.
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Thank you Ulysses. To summarize, overdrill but not all the way through, fill hole with some sort of smeg (thickened resin, 5200, etc). that seems straight forward enough. At that point, depending on access, you either screw or bolt. Excellent
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Just re read your post. I get the Allen wrench technique now. It took a minute but That makes lots of sense. Think I saw 8n Rick's build where he hole sawed out an inch and refilled with something substantial like the filler you mentioned.
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The key is to protect the core when you drill a scupper in. My new transom is marine plywood but I still wanted to protect it. I didn't want any water to get to the core.
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Oh and the wood gutter plugs were not fun to remove. I did put some angle on the gutter sides but wish I had put more.
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Glassed in some of the front storage area. Will give details at bottom of pics
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24669-7885-1000000430.jpeg)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24670-1248-1000000428.jpeg)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24671-8706-1000000427.jpeg)
Mixed poly resin with the white powder stuff and cut 4" long 1/8" wide strips. Wow, that changes the nature of thickened resin. Seems much more fibrous and I'm hoping stronger and less likely to crack.
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Okay, last post was choppy. Wife was talking my ear off and it was either get in a fight and post or ...... everyone knows this story.. Cut mat into little strips and mixed it with the poly. Underneath the deck thing is a spacer/piece of honeycomb bedded in the thickened , fibrous resin on top of the stringer. On top of the spacer/honeycomb is a layer of mat and some of that "special" resin. On top of that is the deck thing and you can see in the pics how I glassed that in with 1708.
Does anyone know if polyester fumes are combustible? I am laminating in an enclosed Insulated barn that is heated with gas and a fireplace. It hasn't exploded yet, but am wondering how big of a dumb a$$ I am.
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Not sure about the fumes combustion but you feel sick when your done.
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I am using a good respirator and keep the cartridges fresh so not to bad. I learned early on in this process that not using a respirator leads to sore throats. Feeling sick is an understatement if you don't have the right gear.
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"the white stuff" - are you referring to Cabosil? It's a good thickener.
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Yes, cabosil. I can't ever remember its name. Adding the cut up matte totally changes the thickened resin. I hope it's for the better. It's kind of like
a puked up cat hair ball. Gotta be stronger.
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Glassed port storage stringer thing in.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24672-1733-1000000431.jpeg)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24673-7023-1000000432.jpeg)
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I have only done one layer of 1708 on the joints. Does it need two layers? Seems really stout the way it is but I am no expert at fiberglass. The lam is technically structural but is extra structure, so in my mind it is all additional strength VS the original deck which had no supports that were glassed to the stringers. Thoughts everyone? 1 or 2 layers 1708?
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You might be able to get away with 1 layer of 1708 but if its easy to do now, might as well. Cracks found later will be much harder to notice or get access to. I am a big fan of overbuilding stuff though! haha. The way I understand it is that fiberglass will flex a little or it should not, just depends on the design. If built with enough bulkheads for it not to flex, any areas not designed to flex, will crack at the weak points. HOWEVER, I am NOT an Engineer but my interpretation of reading a lot.
Looks like your getting close to closing the decks up! Looking good!
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You approach of over building mirrors mine depending on how long I have been glassing. If at the beginning of a lam then I overbuild, but towards the end I usually do less, unless ther is leftover resin. Then something is getting glassed.
Put the other bulkhead in yesterday evening. Came out pretty good.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24674-4281-1000000434.jpeg)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24675-6893-1000000433.jpeg)
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Finished the storage compartment. Glassed the step in. Glued it with gorilla glue construction adhesive ultimate also. I like that stuff more and more. I hope it lasts good.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24676-997-1000000436.jpeg)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24677-5701-1000000435.jpeg)
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the deep portion will hold two 5 gallon buckets and a 45 qt cooler..
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Generated the bilge and added a block for livewell thru hull. It is a 3/4" piece of Coosa bedded in a layer of Matt and thickened resin. Advanced plastics honeycomb supplier sold and they can't get any right now so thought I would gelcoat bilge. Needs another coat. So far so good.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24693-8089-1000000437.jpeg)
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Spellcheck really is such a pain. Didn't generate, I gelcoated.
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Gelcoated other storage area
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24694-6641-1000000439.jpeg)
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Put a capful of "wax" in 2nd coat
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I have a few questions:
1. With Gelcoat being a polyester product, can you laminate right on top of it, assuming you sand and acetone it first?
2. Speaking of waxed gelcoat, should I expect the flat finish I got or did I do something wrong?
3. If the flat finish is expected, how does one go about getting it to shine, if so interested?
Stuff is awesome.
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Working on cap while honeycomb source, Advanced Plastics, works out supplier issues. Figured the cap is old and brittle so a layer of 1708 on the underside and around the edge where the 14 million flathead screws connected it to the hull would be a big improvement. Also added a piece of Coosa over, under when flipped over right side up, a rod holder hole. Will see how that works.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24697-8389-1000000441.jpeg)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24698-6646-1000000440.jpeg)
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Hole about half the size of a dollar bill in cap. Taped the other side of it (the top side or part you would see if not upside down) with packing tape. Laid down a healthy amount of resin, then 3 layers of matte both cut and torn, finally two layers of 1708. The side everyone will look at needs cosmetic work but the hole is fixed.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24699-1678-1000000442.jpeg)
Glassed underside of starboard gunnel and up the rail with one layer of 1708. Everywhere there were holes I added Matt, both cut pieces and torn pieces.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24700-3383-1000000444.jpeg)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24701-6233-1000000443.jpeg)
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Duffy, in a nutshell...you want glass on glass. No gelcoat in between. Gelcoat is a finish, not structural. Polyester resin based products require wax or something to seal the final surface from air to final cure and be tack free. Getting the gelcoat shiny you'll want to wet sand starting around 400-600 and go up to around 1000-2000 depending on preference. Then you'll buff. I like Aqua buff 1000 and 2000 and has served me well.
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Duffy make sure you don't build out the inside edge of the cap edge or it won't fit correctly over the hull top. Fits like a shoe box.
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Thank you Ulysses.
Rick, I already added a layer of 1708. I figured that's two layers total from side to side, so 1/16 of an inch give or take. I did not add any around the bow. We will see if the cap flexes enough to accommodate the extra. If not, I will build a new cap. This one has significant damage from a past wreck any ways we will have reference for future builders.
My plan B, which I saw somewhere on AS classic, is to cut the bow section of the cap off, where all the damage is, and only build that portion new.
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Gelcoated forward storage.
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(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24702-8987-1000000445.jpeg)
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Rick, you have me thinking about what to do if the cap does not fit. Cutting the bow section off is an option, also splitting the cap right down the middle might work. Probably need to figure that out before I proceed. I guess now would be the time to see if it fits before I glass the below in permanently
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24703-7854-1000000446.jpeg)
Or
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24704-1629-1000000446.jpeg)
Or
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24705-1711-1000000446.jpeg)
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I sure hope the cap fits
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Duffy, it may require some trimming or routing back some inside corners but I would still think it would be much easier than rebuilding a cap. It seems typical that the front area gets rotted because they were never properly sealed off and the wood rotts out.
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I agree with you. I really don't think I will have to do anything to get the cap back on. If I do, it will more than likely be more grinding which is strangely satisfying
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Before.... damage to starboard rail. It matches the damage on the cap. This is definitely beyond my skill set, but better than it was.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24707-4385-1000000449.jpeg)
After... most of the blemishes will be covered by the rub rail
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24708-2583-1000000453.jpeg)
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Before... starboard cap damage matches hull damage.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24709-2289-1000000448.jpeg)
After.... still work to be done, but on its way
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24710-3732-1000000451.jpeg)
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Looking good.
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What would you use to remove the Grey paint? I have a 7" disc sander from harbor freight, however have been told an orbital sander is the way to go. I fear the disc sander is too aggressive. I have an orbital sander and it barely touches this stuff with 80 grit. It is a tool someone gave to me broken and I "fixed" it. Having never used an orbital sander, I don't know if it is fixed or not. The disc sander seems to smear the Grey paint, do weird stuff to the underlying gel coat, like remove it or discolor it. I am planning on painting the outside and gel coating the inside. Any pointers at this point would be hugely appreciated.
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I assume the gray paint on the outside of the hull? You might want to check into Citri strip. It works pretty good. I have not sanded much paint off but I would avoid it so you don't create issues with the finish using a disc or DA or orbital. Using the citristrip wont affect the gelcoat or glass below so you just remove the paint and helps for later when you go to fair and finish for paint. Hope that helps and makes sense. For gelcoat, there are thinners like Duratec and Patch Aid that will help with allowing the gelcoat to lay flat and reduce orange peel dramatically. With duractec, you could go right to wet sanding and buffing if sprayed and cured right. You do have to get a lot more coats of the thinned gelcoat to maintain proper millage thickness.
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You are a wealth of knowledge, Ulysses. Wish I could reciprocate. Thank you.
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Its all been trial and error for me. A LOT of youtube videos and reading stuff on DIY fiberglass on the internet. I am no pro but I take my time to get it right the first time (that's the goal at least). I have learned A LOT from these rebuild threads but have always found the specific details were the hardest part and what I struggled the most.
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Before.... damage to starboard rail. It matches the damage on the cap. This is definitely beyond my skill set, but better than it was.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24707-4385-1000000449.jpeg)
After... most of the blemishes will be covered by the rub rail
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24708-2583-1000000453.jpeg)
I would make sure to laminate from the inside where you wont see the repair to make sure its strong. Just make the outside look good and ready for paint.
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Roger that U . Got an orbital sander from harbor freight. It works. Started with 60 grit until could see some gel coat peeking through then switched to 150 grit. Worked well.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24713-7774-1000000456.jpeg)
Trailer fenders are a problem
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There is some damage to the starboard bow that was fixed but needs some attention. Got me thinking about a flats boat inspired spray rail. Anyone ever d9ne that to an aquasport and would it look stupid.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24714-2062-1000000455.jpeg)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24715-1554-1000000458.jpeg)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24716-8593-1000000457.jpeg)
It sure would cover up that damage. Wonder if it would get torn up at the pier or wherever. Opinions welcome.
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Spray rails are installed close to the waterline. Your 12 degree 196 doesn't need spray rails. They are a better fit on a Flat Back 222.
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As Rickk mentioned, the 12 degree hulls have a reverse chine design and will act as a spray rail. The flatback hulls don't have a reverse chine design. They start flat in the back and have a sharp entry up front.
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Both right. The spray chine along the cap works on flats boats that are really low to the water, probably wouldn't help much at the front of an Aquasport. The reverse chines do the job OK but aren't as wide as they could be to work really good, take a look at an old seacraft they're chines are a little wider and are known for a dry ride. The add on spray rails that are attached down near the chine/waterline work pretty good, basically an extension of the chine.
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Most ideas are bad. That's why you talk about them. I appreciate the feedback. My brother said the same thing. He was less nice.
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Saw where someone used gelcoat mixed with cabosil as a fairing compound. I finished sanding the stern and faired it with aforementioned mixture along with starboard rail damage. Also included picture of bow damage. Still contemplating it. It's solid , just looks awful.
Fairing mixture
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24717-6749-1000000462.jpeg)
Stb rail. Actually looks decent. When sanded should be good.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24718-7084-1000000461.jpeg)
Faired stern
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24719-7630-1000000464.jpeg)
Bow damage
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24720-8759-1000000463.jpeg)
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"Finished" sanding. I don't think I'm finished but all the dark, chalky, grey/blue paint is gone.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24721-8583-1000000465.jpeg)
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Sanded the stern with 150 grit to remove the excess fairing / gel coat mixture. It worked, but talk about gumming up some sanding pads. My word. Probably will not use that again but it did work. I did use it to patch the rail damage and it worked well there. I will get a Pic and post later.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24761-4460-1000000466.jpeg)
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Finally removed the thru hull for the front storage been drain. Don't know why I kept putting it off. Patched from inside and outside
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24762-3298-1000000468.jpeg)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24763-4750-1000000467.jpeg)
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Storage bin not been. I guess it is storage been, as in past tense.
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Struggling a little with order of operations. Can't see that it matters but I can't seem to pull the trigger. Should put the deck down then work on the console or finish the console and put it all down at the same time?
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How are you planning to set the deck? With fasteners or glassed in? Its my opinion and I think the opinion of most that a glassed in console is stronger but it takes a lot of forethought and planning I would assume. Haven't got to that point on my builds but id like to try it for a seamless edge and to prevent toe busters.
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Just be sure you've got a good idea of where everything is under the deck before final placement so that if you tweak the console location later on you know whats under there. Wouldn't want to screw into a fuel line or anything.
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Screwing into a fuel line would be ... well, really bad. Not sure about glassing the console down but definitely thinking about it. Seems easier than screwing or bolting. Either way, I am modeling my center deck piece after Rick's, where the console and leaning post can/will be attached to it before it goes into the boat.
About finished with bottom of cap, patched a couple of holes in the skirt(?) And cored bow area.
Flexible piece of glass taped with packing tape very helpful
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24771-6146-1000000470.jpeg)
Core needs to cleaned up and finished glossing
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24772-7829-1000000469.jpeg)
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Didn't answer one of your questions, U. I'm gluing (5200) and glassing the lower deck down which is 6 pieces. Three across the stern and three across the center before the casting deck.
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Just to make sure I follow, are you setting six (6) total pieces down to make one deck? Are you laying glass over it all once its set in place? Your using Honeycomb board for the deck, correct?
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U, I'm glad you asked that. You are correct about almost all of your previous post. Using honey comb for all of it except the piece, which is Coosa, that is over the fuel tank/getting the console and leaning post mounted to it . My plan was to glue it all down, then glass around the edges . I was pondering what to do on the seams and I think one big layer of matte over the whole deck is the way to go. The individual deck pieces are all glassed individually with two layers of 1708 on bottom and one layer 1708 and one layer matte on top.
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Are you using something to sort of glue each panels end to one another? I see where you are going and it seems this would be an easy way to piece it all together. But you will end up with weak points at the joints I would imagine. That being said, I would put down one layer of 1708 to tie it all together and a layer of matt that you can sand down a little and get fair for your final finish of choice.
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All the joints have structural support underneath, either the stringers or the ribs which go all the way to the stringers. Should be really strong and am planning on lots of 5200 under the deck and in the joints.
Cut 6 inches out of the center of my console. You can see the piece on the ground.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24775-3080-1000000474.jpeg)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24776-1490-1000000475.jpeg)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24777-338-1000000473.jpeg)
Contemplated dual conSole, but no.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24778-5062-1000000476.jpeg)
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Flipped cap over. It's a mess. Not sure what I'm going to find under the Grey paint.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24791-366-1000000477.jpeg)
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Also been working on console. Hard to take pics of the inside of this thing. I will say this, there's no way to recore any part of the console without taking it out of the boat. I will try to take some pics
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Console innards. Cored the top of console with Coosa. Its 1/4 inch plus. Not really sure. Other pics speak for themselves
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24792-2630-1000000479.jpeg)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24794-7536-1000000481.jpeg)
Cap work. How rough is too rough. Trying to figure out if it is possibly "totaled"
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24793-5268-1000000480.jpeg)
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Well, I can't say I'm proud of myself. I cut the front of the console off to make room for a cooler. What the hell am I doing? Much of boat rebuilding has been like that. Somehow it's fun?
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24796-1980-1000000482.jpeg)
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are you gonna put some kind of shelf inside, above the cooler, and maybe a wall to separate that cooler space from the rest of the inner console? Seems like if you don't you'll get all kinds of spray on your wiring & everything else in there. But also consider being able to drain that new space you created, I did something similar and it would always get pretty nasty in there cause I didn't provide a good way to get the water out.
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My plan is to use the pieces I cut off in some fashion. See below
Probably not this one
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24797-3548-1000000484.jpeg)
Leaning towards this one
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24798-7884-1000000485.jpeg)
The geometry on the cut off pieces is the same so why not take advantage of that and not recreate the wheel. The cooler is going to be a yeti 45 or 65 that sits in front of the console. Again, why recreate the wheel. In the next picture use your imagination in regards to altering the existing hatch to fit.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24799-8832-1000000483.jpeg)
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What does it mean that my post is brown and has a pin in it?
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Not sure I understand the question...
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I should have included this with my question. My apologies. The thread, or whatever it's called, is brown. It did not used to be like this. I don't really care one way or another, just curious.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24800-3912-1000000486.jpeg)
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Console makes sense now - I thought you were going to have an opening into the front to put the cooler in the console. For the upper opening, you don't have any of those tackle storage shelves laying around do you?
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The pictures are key. Language does a poor describing most of boat rebuilding. As far as a tackle shelf, are you referring to the shelf I ripped out of the console that other aquas i am familiar with have in the console? If yes, I have an idea for that. I will follow up with pics but for now I will try to use my words. The piece I cut off that ended up being two pieces have a lip at the top (and a flange at the bottom for miunting to deck) that the seat/hatch sat on. I was contemplating gluing or glassing those inside the console to provide a rest or support for a shelf.
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something like this to fill part of the big hole in the upper half.
(http://)
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I think you made it a sticky topic and that changed the color. I "unstuck" it.
I should have included this with my question. My apologies. The thread, or whatever it's called, is brown. It did not used to be like this. I don't really care one way or another, just curious.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24800-3912-1000000486.jpeg)
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Was talking about adding a lip on the inside of console. Below are pics illustrating the idea
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24801-5046-1000000488.jpeg)
Cut off at transition to flange (haven't done that in any of the pics yet)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24802-5919-1000000489.jpeg)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24803-7517-1000000492.jpeg)
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Not necessarily related to above pics but what I am doing to redo the console. Have to glass it all together now
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24804-67-1000000490.jpeg)
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Had to stare at the above for an hour for all the cuts to reveal themselves
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Console mounting flange(?) Was in bad shape on both sides and still had a speaker hole to fix. Tried blue tape over hole method. Definitely not as good as a hard backer. Hole probably too big for tape.
Before
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24805-1176-1000000493.jpeg)
After, but still wet
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24806-2732-1000000494.jpeg)
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Did both sides
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Thank you Rick for brown thread explanation. I did that by accident.
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More console work. Cored where steering, throttle , gauges, etc will go with 1/4 Coosa. Is that thick enough for steering apparatus to be mounted to? Other pics as well.
I am thinking about putting a beach umbrella holder in the center of the top of the console. Wife is a red head so shade is not an option and i am not a fan of biminis and i dont want a t-top cause i am cheap. Also thinking about making it receive a pole with running and anchor lights. Maybe a tri color light like on a sailboat mast. Any ideas or input on how to or why not would be welcome.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24836-4049-1000000497.jpeg)
Trimmed up mounting flange. No complaints. It will definitely work well and looks okay.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24837-8027-1000000496.jpeg)
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The console is looking good. Doesn't look like you're afraid of fiberglass anymore. :thumleft:
The 1/4" coosa is a good start and if you need to beef it up in places you can add another short piece where you need it or you can lam like 6 layers of 1708 which makes 1/4 to 3/8" thickness. I did that where my retractable cleats were in the aft - really beefed the structure up.
What I did inside mine was add plywood (soaked in resin and glassed in place) so I had place to screw stuff into - battery charger, amp for stereo, terminal blocks, etc.
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I've looked at your build a lot and it seemed like you planned ahead for most of it. Did you/can you play some of that by ear or make a game day decision on some of those decisions. I am redoing the console now, so I guess game day is today. To beef up the console where the steering is I could put a 3/4 inch piece of Coosa on the outside (glassed of course) and that would raise the steering wheel 3/4 + glass which would be desirable. Thanks for your input.
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Duffy, the console is coming along nicely!
I agree with Rickk on the thickness of the helm being sufficient. I would add glass if needed or another sheet of coosa from the underside if you feel its not firm enough for the helm. I built up a helm using Coosa (post #28 on my 1981' - 222) and the shaping and forming of the radius corners was such a pain that ill never do it again that way nor recommend it. Now that I have used melamine to mold stuff, ill do everything I can to shape what I need using it to maintain flat surfaces and smooth radius'.
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Thanks for the input gents. Perhaps another layer of glass or two or 6. Honestly, that would be easier than more coring probably. Added the shelf lip tonight with gorilla glue. It's not structural but I will probably add a strip of 1708 on the edges. Will get pics tomorrow.
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Finished glassing console with a layer of matte on the outside. Sanded it all up (not in this pic). Cut the hole for the umbrella. It's mocked up with pvc pipe. Hopefully I can make it double as a running and anchor light setup. That's a project for later.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24849-1005-1000000500.jpeg)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24850-1652-1000000498.jpeg)
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Getting closer. Finished up with a layer of matte. Need to grind and sand it. The lamination schedule was a layer of matte, layer of 1708 and another layer of matte. Put a sheet of plastic over the console, put the pieces of the hatch on there, clamped the hatch in place, then glassed everything in place ensuring a good fit.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24851-7819-1000000504.jpeg)
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Yup, sheet plastic is a good friend. I still have a bunch of cheap painters drop cloths from my rebuild. :thumleft:
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Gel coated back of hatch and Inside console base white. It will end up with at least 2 coats probably 3. Im just rolling it on because it is in a hidden area so fit and finish is not the goal, rather make it easier to see in dark places and protect the raw glass. Ground and sanded other side of hatch. Have a bubble to repair. You'll never guess where. Going over a corner. I'll post a picture of it later.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24852-107-1000000506.jpeg)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24853-4877-1000000507.jpeg)
This actually a good picture of the shelf supports I put in earlier. Glassed down one side kind of by accident after I glued and clamped them with gorilla construction adhesive ultimate.
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Final coat with wax
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24857-8684-1000000508.jpeg)
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Now that the console is "complete", I am moving to complete the casting Deck. I am planning on doing it in one piece with gutters molded in for the center hatch. Other than melamine or plastic are there other substances that can be used for a mold? Saw frp boards for half the price with one side having a sort of non skid molded in. Does polyester resin stick to that? Any thoughts or stick to melamine?
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You can make the molds out of wood with split wooden dowels (like closet rod) for the gutter?
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Duffy, I think FRP might work. Might wanna test it first before a big layup. I would also recommend using a wax. I bought some PARTALL® Paste #2 Mold Release Wax off amazon to make sure it lets loose off the melamine mold I built for my 240 transom and it worked quite well. How thick is the FRP?
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Frp is 1/8 inch ish thick. I was going to lay it all on the concrete floor which appears flat. I suspect I am going to go with the melamine unless you(U) or Rick or dbiscayne had personal experience with one of these other mold materials.
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Rick, I used wooden fence ... stuff? (Basically 1 inch square).... on another hatch I made that came out okay. The wood worked great with packing tape laid over it as a releasing agent. My mistake was using visqueen instead of melamine. The visqueen just wasn't flat enough. It worked but looked very sub par. I ended up sanding and sanding but it still was not what it could of been.
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Casting deck time
Form made of 1/2 x 1 inch pieces of wood. They were 8 ft long and less than $2 a piece. They worked great for this because the boat is curved and so are these pieces of wood like all the wood from home depot and lowes.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24858-8220-1000000510.jpeg)
Going to tape the 3/4 x 3/4 pieces of pvc board down on melemine where I want the gutters. do they need to bigger than 3/4 like maybe 1 inch. Actually hurting my brain thinking about this as it is upside down .
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24859-6399-1000000511.jpeg)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24860-3163-1000000512.jpeg)
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Nice!
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I can't quite get the melamine sheets even. Apparently my concrete floor isn't even. Haven't laid any glass yet but need to deal with that.
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I need some help from everyone. I have a serious case of analysis paralysis. So I am making this deck with gutters in it on a mold. The top of the deck will come out nice and smooth with gutters glassed in. Next I core the deck with 3/4 inch honeycomb hopefully wet on wet. Once the whole thing sets up I pop it off and the top of the deck is nice and perfect but it is not the part that lays on the stringers and bulkhead. The part that lays on the stringers and bulkhead is the bottom of coring and bottom of the gutters which won't be flat and perfect, thus the paralysis. Should I try to make the gutters align with the stringers? Can't get my head wrapped around it
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24879-4751-1000000512.jpeg)
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What are the red lines representing? Gutters? Are you going to have a ledge along the outside to support the deck? I assume you'll only have one hatch?
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Red lines are where the potentially uneven bottom of the deck will rest on level/even stringers and bulkhead. I suppose the coring will have to go all the way to the bulkhead and the lip of the center hatch will have to be inside the bulkhead and stringers. I was hoping to make the center hatch align with the stringers, i.e. the gutter is in top of the stringers, but I can't see it in my head. I looked at mcalgeyver's build but his structure is generally different.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24881-6389-1000000512.jpeg)
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I was not planning on a ledge to mount the deck to like I did for the lower deck because the flare of the bow seemed to be enough but I could be talked into it if you think that is a mistake to exclude .
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My goodness I had to stare at this thing for hours before my feeble brain finally saw it. I was one tier away from some kind of spirit quest / talking spirit animal appearance. At any rate, it was a matter of layer order. I couldn't see the end in my head until I walked through the order of layers which are
1. Matte
2. 1708 matte side down
3. Maybe another layer of matte for core bonding purposes
4. Core honeycomb
5. 1708
6. 1708
The part I couldn't envision was where the core and gutter met.. the gutter will end up being matte,1708, matte,1708, 1708
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24882-5333-1000000516.jpeg)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24883-5648-1000000515.jpeg)
Hard to see all the white on white
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24884-222-1000000514.jpeg)
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Thank you Rick. For whatever reason your post engaged my brain and I finally saw it this afternoon.
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The thrill of victory and the agony of defeat, well, not quite that dramatic. First attempt on the casting deck went south on me. I screwed it up, not remembering the bigger laminations never go as planned for me. I am not very good at cutting the patterns into larger sheets of glass so I end up Frankensteining them together. They come out strong as all get out but don't look so great while doing them. They end up looking fine, but not so much during the process.
I aborted in the middle of this one. The gutters, which were 3/4 inch square, were too small. The glass, predictably, did not want to make the small corners. Took it out back and threw it over the proverbial flood wall.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24891-2207-1000000517.jpeg)
Took the glass from what was supposed to go into first picture and laminated back/bottom of deck panel. Had to make some quick decisions in the middle of the above lam
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24892-1900-1000000518.jpeg)
Enlarged gutters to 2 inch square. Will core this with piece in previous Pic
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24893-6711-1000000519.jpeg)
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Where the gutters come out of the casting deck bulkhead will have to be notched, but I'm hoping that will be "easy". Oh yeah, the above lam was kind of two schedules, one over the gutter and the rest of it.
Over the gutter:
>Lots of matte of various sizes until it looked substantial
>layer of 1708 over the whole gutter area cut appropriately to fit
The rest of it:
>layer of matte
>layer 1708
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Glassed other side, same schedule.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24894-7623-1000000520.jpeg)
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Looks good Duffy! Are you going to use honeycomb board as the coring material? I am curious how your experience is with it as I don't have much experience with it, YET. Curious to hear your experience and thoughts. Thanks for sharing!!
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U, the honey comb is light, inexpensive, and glasses into super stiff, zero deflection panels. Finishing the edges of this stuff is not something I have experience with, looks like a pain in the rear. Rick did a great looking, well documented job on his build, so it can be done. My strategy has been to terminate the ends in a major glass area, like deck to hull where no one will see the edges.
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I should have been more clear...I have 9- 4x8 - 1'' Panels of Honeycomb (scrimmed backing, no glass) that I will use for decking materials. I glassed up one large panel of it so far and glassed it into the hull for a fuel tank subfloor in my 240 project. I am curious how your experience will be using it in a mold application. I would like to use it that way to build hatches, hatch gutters etc. in a
melamine mold. Not sure how to do it other than laying up the panels first with at least one layer of 1708 and sanding them down before setting them into the mold with some kind of thickened resin, putty compound, or 1.5oz chop strand mat.
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I already laid the deck down on the melamine. I trimmed it up today and will be glassing/bonding the honeycomb to it this week. I plan on putting a layer of 1708 or 2 over that. I can't answer your question yet but it should be soon.
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U, I lied about coring with honeycomb. I forgot about this piece from a few weeks back. The comb cores great. The pics are of the shelf I added inside the console anD the comb will receive the end of an umbrella. My skills are limited, however this piece came out great so the product, comb, is easy to work with. Used a combo of matte and 1708.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24903-8790-1000000525.jpeg)
Yes, the shelf is actually the front small hatch off the casting deck
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24904-3026-1000000521.jpeg)
Other work on coring the front deck
Layer of matte, then add comb
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24905-35-1000000524.jpeg)
Weighted down
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24906-3227-1000000526.jpeg)
Also fixed vent hole in port hull side. Put packing tape on aluminum..... see pics
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24907-3931-1000000522.jpeg)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24908-8359-1000000523.jpeg)
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Other side of hole patch
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24909-3346-1000000527.jpeg)
Glassed underside of front deck. Will start fitting it tomorrow.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24910-1481-1000000528.jpeg)
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Deck came out good I think. Need to clean it up. Rick planted the deck rail idea in my head so I will do that next.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24911-1677-1000000529.jpeg)
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You don't have to have a rail if it fits tight and you can cover the glass work to the hull. That was what I was thinking when I mentioned the rail. You can glue the deck to the rail and fill the gap along the edge with thickened resin putty. If you have the liner to cover the joint, no problem.
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I put some hard points in for the deck to rest on. Three on each side. I think you were right to suggest them. I am starting to lose my zeal for the project, so any time you see me cutting corners, please call me out.
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U, finished the deck with the comb as core. Do you have any questions? I am more than happy to answer anything you have.
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Looking great. That deck came out nice. If you can reach under deck and get some glass connecting hill and underside of deck it would be beneficial. That bow takes some beating. Glad you enlargerd the gutters which gives the hatch room to be thicker and stronger.
You’re in it now. Don’t lose steam. Classic Aquasport will get you to the end. And then some. Would unequivocally have not finished my boat if it was not for the few main guys here on CA. I owe them more than they know and will be forever indebted to them and CA.
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Roger that mcall on all points. I'm going to finish, but definitely plan on cheating at the end by having someone else paint it. If it looks like a 52 year old boat and my wife bitches it can be someone else's fault.
I don't know how I could glass from the underside. I am open to suggestions. Was planning on lots of gorilla glue construction adhesive ultimate. I could easily be talked into 5200. I have to order it online which is why I end up using the gorilla glue product.
I am definitely scared/reluctant/dreadful to glue and glass the deck down. That's it. Game over. If it's not in there, too bad. So, I will do as many other topside items first.
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Duffy, project is looking good and coming along nicely. I was just curious about the laminate schedule for bedding the core. Did you laminate the side you bedded in the mold?
Do you have access to those three hard spots underneath the front deck or are those areas outside of the fish box and basically dead space? A good practice it seems common is to tie everything together with structural tabbing glass so its basically all one part. I believe the hull to deck joints should be glassed in.. in lieu of just 5200 or thickened resin. I know you spent all this effort on a smooth casting deck so I would get some Peel Ply and lay that on the structural ties so fairing isn't so bad.
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The laminate schedule from top to bottom is:
-matte
-1708 (matte side to above matte side)
-matte
-honeycomb
-Matte
-1708
I am definitely tabbing the deck in from the top but not the bottom (cant get to the dead space outside the fishbox/storage area to glass from bottom). The area of concern is the outside edge of the deck. The honeycomb is left exposed. If it were going to delaminate, I suspect it would be here. The bottom is supported by the hard points and will be glued and the top will be tabbed with two layers 1708 and layer of matte. I think it will be good.
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Here is a picture of what I am talking about. See the exposed comb. It is like that all the way around the outside edge. I figure as long as it is adequately supported from underneath with a rail or hard points and tabbed from the top, it should be fine.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24950-2881-1000000528.jpeg)
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U, not sure I answered your question before so I'm going to add some comments. Here is the whole front deck process.
Day1:
-Leveled two 4x8 pieces of memine on cement floor
-Taped 2x2 pieces of wood down for gutters
-glassed gutters down with lots of matte and a layer of 1708
-let it all dry
Day2
-layer of matte over the whole thing including previous days work (lighty sanded and acetone whole thing)
-layer 1708 up to gutter but not over it
-layer of matte
-core and weight on core
Day3
-thickened resin between edge of core and gutter
-matte over all that
-1708 over all that
-1708 over gutter up to core
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Thank you for the detailed explanation Duffy! How did you handle the scrim backing on the honeycomb panels? Did you "hot coat" them before you set them into the wet mat layer?
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Yes, U. Gave the honeycomb a healthy coat before waiting them down.
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Thanks for the information. Regarding finishing the edge of the honeycomb, are you able to add a 45 on the edge of the panel so the bulkhead can be joined together AND filled with thickened resin? Check out my 240 build post #21 where I did this to make a bulkhead and the fuel tank subfloor.
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Hatch .... mat, 1708, strip 1708 down each side , mat, core battery
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24968-8776-1000000530.jpeg)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24969-2342-1000000531.jpeg)
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As U says, liberally hot coated core before laying down wet on wet. Added various pieces in corners and other random spots. I had resin left over, things got glassed.
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Came out pretty good. Will finish glassing tomorrow
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24970-1032-1000000532.jpeg)
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:thumleft: Looks like you have the hang of this. Maybe should have cut the edges of the core at a 45 all around before lamming it in, so you could finish lamming all together?
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I thought about that but decided to use thickened resin instead. For whatever reason I seem to end up doing cored laminations in two stages. What you described would be better.
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Duffy, thanks for sharing. Looks like the honeycomb panels work well for coring small part as well. Good to know! Something I have in mind for when I build my deck is to use quarter round glued into the ends and capped with glass. Unfortunately, I havent found a PVC quarter round in 1''.
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Put a piece of honey comb to reinforce the front joint. Glassed over comb with 1708. Put a piece of plastic over that and weighted it down with a car battery and cinder block. First time to weight down over plastic. Came out wavy. It's solid but needs some grinding.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/24/24977-5927-1000000535.jpeg)
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Forgot, put thickened resin and Matt down first in between two c9mb layers