Classic AquaSport
Aquasport Model Rebuilds, Mods, Updates and Refreshes => Osprey Style Hull Rebuilds => 165/170/175 Rebuilds => Topic started by: AquasportEd on June 01, 2021, 03:38:48 PM
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Hello All!
I mentioned in the introduce yourself thread that I was the new proud owner of 1987 170. Boat is currently in my yard on a trailer and has no outboard. Ill include several pics shortly, but the game plan is basically a total overhaul. The deck feels soft in some areas, hull needs a repaint, tank was completely shot, and though the transom isn't visibly damaged, it appears someone has attempted a repair to it at some point in time.
I hope to start cutting her up soon, so I'm looking for some advice. My current idea is assess the transom first. I think more or less regardless of what I find I should remove it, and build it back up. The thought here being the boat will be getting new stringers (almost certainly soaked), and a new deck (hoping to go honeycomb). And if I'm getting that deep into it, the transom should be of a known quality too.
After replacing the transom, I plan to remove most of the deck, as well as the liner. At that point, remove any saturated foam, grid like hell, and refoam the stringers, possibly raising the floor an inch in the process (would like to be self bailing).
Based upon the above information, does it sound like a viable plan? And any comments on how to tackle the transom rebuild? Thinking of tackling it from the outside skin, what would be the best tool to begin peeling back the skin to remove the wood core?
I have zero glass experience, so this will definitely be learning experience. A few years ago I rehabbed an aluminum boat from the ground up, so I have some idea of how a project like this may go.
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(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_20210403_185754.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=21855&title=img-20210403-185754&cat=500)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_20210408_174404.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=21856&title=img-20210408-174404&cat=500)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_20210417_144756.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=21857&title=img-20210417-144756&cat=500)
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Your plan seems fine. The transom looks kinda lumpy from the outside. I'm not sure why though unless you have some glass delamination.
What is your plan for new power? The 170 is usually sensitive to added weight in the aft but based on your demo/rebuild plan you should be able to compensate for extra weight and offset. Cutting in from the outside can be done but it is a lot more work, but if the glass is delaminating on the outside, it'll have to be cut out anyway. I hate to say but I might take a 80 grit grinder to some of the spots and see what they look like below the gelcoat.
Is there soft spots in the floor? Usually in the aft behind the tank well there is but that is because there is no support between the stringers there.
One thing you can do before taking the big cutting plunge on the floor is take a drill with 1" hole saw and drill a hole about a 1/2" above the place where the stringer meets the bottom and as far aft as you can. See what comes out of it and you can also stick your finger in and see if it is damp. Look at the drainage initially and then raise the front of the boat for a few days and see if it increases. Most of the time the farther forward you go in the stringer the drier they are. Also usually only the lower couple inches are wet/saturated.
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Rickk,
The transom does appear wavy, as though someone was in there before and didnt sand or prep it well. It doesnt seem delaminated to me, but i could be wrong. Someone also relocated the bolt holes for the motor, which further leads me to believe someone messed with the transom prior.
Would an angle grinder be the correct tool to begin cutting into the transom? Any other tool you would recommend?
Plan for power at this point is a Yamaha 70 4-stroke (~250lbs). Performance wise, id like to cruise mid 20's and top out at about 30 with 2 people and full cooler.
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I first thought that the transom had been redone but then decided no one would have done that bad of a job. Maybe they did.
Reason I mentioned grinder was to grind down an area and see what was under the gelcoat before diving head long into a full transom rebuild. If you found poorly bonded glass then you'd know it all needed to come out or at least be refinished. If they did that poor of a glass job, the core would be suspect too, in my mind.
Seems your plan is to preserve the finished inside of the transom liner - correct?
If so, my approach would be to figure out what happened to the transom - maybe start with a 6 or 7" 24 grit flap sanding wheel on a 7" angle grinder and take all the gelcoat off the aft side of the transom and look at what you have to do. A large flap sanding wheel will make short business of that gelcoat and also keep the gouging to a minimum- you're going to have to do some grinding on it anyway.
If you're not trying to preserve the inside liner then I would work from the inside instead of from the outside. First thing I would do is make a drawing of the inside of the boat as it currently sits. Lay a straight edge, like a 2x4 or 2x2 aluminum pool cage support, across the top of the gunnels and measure from the straight edge to the current floor. Measure every 12" from back toward front. Also measure width (beam) of boat every foot. The drawing will help you document everything you've done and know what things were like before you did any work. If you cut out the floor, add the stringers to the drawing and measure to the tops every foot, measure from one side of the hull and mark the bottom and top of each stringer. So if you measure from the starboard side, you'll have the a complete drawing of where everything below the new floor is for future reference, you'll be glad you did. For instance, if you raise the floor by adding to the stringers, add that new info to the drawing.
If you decide to work from the inside because the outside transom skin is to far gone then I would mark 18" from the outside of the transom, and that would be my cut line across the gunwales, down the liner, across the floor and stringers. If you do a clean job with the cut, you can reglass everything back together after you rebuild the transom. You'll want at least 18" of work space in front of the transom to get a good bond of the glass to the sides and hull bottom as you overlap the glass.
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Rickk,
I am not trying to preserve the liner, or much of anything haha. Basically im preparing myself for a full rebuild (transom, stringers, deck, tank, paint, etc...).
The reason I mentioned going from the outside of the transom is because i figured that was easiest (most access). Again, more or less regardless of what i find after removing the skin of transom, the plan is to remove the core and rebuild it. This is mostly because I can almost guarantee the foam is saturated in the stringers and the deck appears soft and is planned to be replaced with a honeycomb type product. It doesn't make sense to me to replace the stringers and deck and not have 100% confidence in the transom.
I also figured it best to do the transom repair first, so as to retain some hull integrity prior to removing the deck/liner.
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You're right.
That being said my recommendation now is to do what I mentioned above about cutting everything out 18" from the aft of the transom but be careful so you can re-use what you cut out and don't forget to get all those measurements - a few years from now you'll appreciate knowing, for example, what space you have under the deck and where if you wanted to add a storage bin etc. My next thought would be, once all the cutting is done, including gunnel cap unless you can remove most of the screws on the shoe box joint of the cap to hull so you can lift the gunwale/cap up and stuff a 2x4 or something under it to avoid cutting, is use a circular saw and cut 2" wide strip into the transom from the inside and then use an air chisel to peel away the core down to the outer skin. Before the next step use a 1x2 or something and screw it across the top of the hull sides a couple feet from the transom, to hold the shape of the hull. I'm thinking it will be easier, once you get most of the core removed, to cut the transom out of the boat leaving a 2" lip around the hull sides and bottom. Sounds shocking doesn't it? What this allows is to lay a sheet of melamine against the back of the hull, secure it, and use it as a flat template for your new flat transom. The outside will be nice, smooth and won't need a lot of fairing. If tied into the hull bottom and sides correctly it will be as strong or stronger than the original - that's why we need 18" of space ahead of the transom to work.
When you are rebuilding the transom you are actually moving the low point forward in the hull.
Here is a link to where I explain the thought of the PVC pipe
http://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=13148.msg133124#msg133124
Here is a link to where I show what is actual problem
http://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=13148.msg133556#msg133556
Here is a link to Hawgleg's rebuild that shows the PVC pipe installation to keep a drain at the new low point of the boat
http://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=13148.msg134262#msg134262
Hey, we're here for you - we have plenty of Master Rebuilders that can jump in here to add some advice as you go through this. I rebuilt my 170 over a 7 year period and I gutted it totally, all the way down to the bare hull. Here is a link - it's very long but has a lot of good ideas and process challenges in it that I overcame - https://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=10101.0
Unfortunately I thought of the PVC solution after my rebuild :03:
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Rickk,
Really appreciate all the advice here, and I did have some time prior to this thread to look at your restoration, awesome job!
Time permitting this weekend, i will take your advice and get some measurements. Also hopefully mark out the 18in from the transom and get to cutting.
Circular saw set to a fairly shallow depth the best tool to cut across the gunnel/liner/deck?
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I used a Bosch jig saw with Sterling blades. The blades are not cheap but they are great for cutting fiberglass and last a while. Use the circular saw for cutting the transom core into 2" strips. Harbor Freight can be your best friend during a rebuild.
Take lots of pics so we can follow along and help where we can.
If you are going to stay with a notched transom take good measurements before you cut it out.
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Didnt get a ton of time to work on the boat over the weekend, but i was able to remove the last 18in of the deck/liner. Overall the boat seemed in better condition than i thought. Foam in the stringers appears dry, and from what little i can see of the transom core appeared dry. But core of the floor was saturated with water. I took a closer look at our "wavy" transom and Im now of the thought someone has patched in a repair section, as the shotty-ness appears about 4" in of both the port and strb side, time will tell.
Guess the next step in my plan is try and remove the transom core. You mentioned taking measurements then using a circular saw to cut 2in strips (im assuming horizontal). Should i do this setting a depth to hopefully not cut through the outer skin? Im also guessing I will have to remove some of the stringer to access the lower portion of the transom?
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/932/IMG_20210606_181713.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=21881&title=img-20210606-181713&cat=932)
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What is the gray stuff on each side of the transom core? I am wondering if they waviness is from a badly poured transom (using Arjay or similar)... Have you gotten a look at what the transom core consists of yet?
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Good question, i noticed that as well and was not sure. The only part of the core that I can see is in the top corners, and that is solid wood, but i havent seen the larger sections of the core yet. Good catch, and based upon the uneven-ness of the prior repair a pourable transom wouldn't shock me.
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That's the "leakage" they warn about when using composite pourable material. Does it look like the top edge of the transom has been replaced? If you remove the bolts going through the transom, what do you see in the holes? Based on what you're seeing now, I'd cut the transom out and do it right.
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just looked at the transom again today after work, and id have to agree all signs point to pourable. The bolt holes appear to show it as does the perimeter from the angles i can view.
Any ideas on how to tackle this? It seems to shear fairly easily, and the reciprocating saw i used to cut out the deck goes through it as well.
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I’d go around the transom edge with your saw (circ, reciprocating, etc), leaving a 4” flange around the edge. The remaining pourable compound along the edges should come off pretty easily with chisel and mallet, then clean up with a flap disc. You’re right, the compound is not super hard to cut or shear.
Once your transom flanges are clean, pick a core material and follow a build thread that matches your plan!
Make sure to take a bunch of gunwale width measurements before you cut!
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Didnt get a ton of time to work on the boat over the weekend, but i was able to remove the last 18in of the deck/liner. Overall the boat seemed in better condition than i thought. Foam in the stringers appears dry, and from what little i can see of the transom core appeared dry. But core of the floor was saturated with water. I took a closer look at our "wavy" transom and Im now of the thought someone has patched in a repair section, as the shotty-ness appears about 4" in of both the port and strb side, time will tell.
Guess the next step in my plan is try and remove the transom core. You mentioned taking measurements then using a circular saw to cut 2in strips (im assuming horizontal). Should i do this setting a depth to hopefully not cut through the outer skin? Im also guessing I will have to remove some of the stringer to access the lower portion of the transom?
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/932/IMG_20210606_181713.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=21881&title=img-20210606-181713&cat=932)
Aquasport premade the stringer shells and then laid the empty shell into the hull, glassing them in with woven roven (a heavy mat) and that is what you're seeing as being saturated. Here is an article on how the early 170s were built - https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=2706&title=as-170-article5-june-1970&cat=549
That being said I think I would remove the lifting eyes from the transom, you can re-use them unless they are rust stained. You also want to save the top of the transom that you see in your picture on each side. You can laminate them back to the gunwale top that you cut out already. I would also remove the bilge pump exhaust from the hull side - it'll be in the way as you build the new transom skin. Also you need to cut the stringers back 18" and gently lift them out of the boat for re-use later. Be careful when you cut them out that you don't go through the bottom of hull.
Once you have this stuff done I would use your saw and cut the transom out, from the outside and I'd leave about 2" all around the edge - that gives you enough room to secure the melamine to the aft but not have a lot of material to prep/grind for the new transom skin. It also locks in the shape of the hull bottom-to-sides. Leaving as much of the liner in as you have, also will keep the shape.
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Rickk,
Is the below cut line what your basically suggesting? Im assuming you mean to cut out the entire transom (both inner and outside skin), leaving just the 2" edge around the perimeter?
I plan on starting to cut on Saturday morning and will update as needed. Running to the store tonight to grab some fresh blades...
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_20210408_1744042.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=21883&title=img-20210408-1744042&cat=500)
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Hi Ed,
Do you have a straight edge that you can place across the aft of the transom and see if there is any outward bow in the transom? Even a string will work. Check along the hull bottom to see if it is bowed out near the drain (since that is all that will be left after cut off) also see if the corners where the transom meets the hull sides is a 90 degree joint or if there is more than 90 degrees (meaning it is going to be hard to make it flat across the transom). Check that out and let us know.
I am also concerned a little about you losing the top rear portion of the gunwale cap though. You can cut that off and re-attach it to the end of the gunwale cap on each side.
Your cut line is fine except I would cut straight up the sides out the top. The only reason you are leaving a lip is to preserve the original outer glass at the hull bottom/transom connection and hull side/transom connection. You're going to be grinding and beveling the 2" lip to a pretty sharp edge so the new glass laminations has an easy transition across the old.
Make sure to make a cardboard template of the shape of the existing transom so you can trace it on the new skin after you done the first 3 layers. Also you can use it to shape the transom core.
Here is a good example of removing a damaged transom skin and adding a new one https://www.community.boatbuildercentral.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=11294
The reason I point out this link is for the way they used the melamine and anchored it to the back of the boat. Notice that they cut the transom out except for just a little bit. We usually use 3 layers of 1708 for the outer and inner laminations of the transom and overlap the layers 3,6,9" or 4,8,12".
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Rickk,
The hull bottom near the drain seemed flat, as did the sides. However, when I moved up towards the scuppers the wavyness of the prior repair became apparent. Looks like the centerline of the transom was the high point, but it was kind of all over the place. Looks like the past repair left about a 4-6" perimeter of original material. This was sort of confirmed when i removed the lifting eyes and saw the original wood core.
Grabbed some cardboard yesterday to make a template, if i have some time after work today ill trace it out. Also bought some carbide blades. Looks to me that if i leave only a 2" edge i will be cutting through the original wood core and not the pourable.
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Grinder with a cutoff wheel does a pretty good job making those transom cuts through the fiberglass. Don’t have to worry about the blade breaking or going dull. Just don’t forget to wear your mask!
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That's good about those areas being flat - the center will be cut out so it doesn't matter. You'll be removing all the remaining wood and grinding everything out to 18".
I agree about the cutoff wheels - they are cheap and make quick business of what you're cutting. Harbor freight again for the angle grinder and the cutoff wheels. Grab a face shield while you're there.
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Finished cutting out the transom this morning. I made a template on cardboard yesterday, and also scribed my cutline, 2" in around the perimeter. I still need to remove the last 18in or so of the stringers.
Any recommendations on where online to buy the materials needed to glass the exterior transom skin, and maybe a rough idea of the quantities of materials needed? I have no real past glassing experience.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/932/IMG_20210612_105925.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=21896&title=img-20210612-105925&cat=932)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/932/IMG_20210613_124039.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=21897&title=img-20210613-124039&cat=932)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/932/IMG_20210613_124825.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=21898&title=img-20210613-124825&cat=932)
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Wow, great job Ed - I realize it's scary because of all the unknowns but we'll help you though this.
Where are you located? There are several places that you can buy supplies online but doing so kills you on freight. I bet I have several hundred in shipping just from East coast of FL to the West coast.
It's cheaper if you can find a local supplier - right now you don't need a ton of supplies but it does add up quickly. At least you don't need rolls of glass - that is heavy to ship. Let us know your location and I'm sure members can steer you to a supplier.
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1708 is what you want and if you're thinking epoxy, you're thinking right. Structurally it is many time better than poly or vinylester. Everyone has their preference - I used both epoxy and poly on my rebuild. I used epoxy below the floor and poly above. 1708 comes in 30" and 50" wide. You'll also need some chop strand mat (CSM) and that usually comes in 1.5 and 3oz weights (still same widths).
Here is an example of layup schedule that we usually follow - https://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=9991.msg87558#msg87558
US composites has a good explanation of the different kinds of glass - http://www.uscomposites.com/products.html
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If you can't find stuff locally, check Jamestown Distributors. They often have free shipping (or with a small surcharge for big items) and they will pretty much have everything you need, with reasonable prices too. They also have some pretty good video tutorials, for stuff like gelcoat nonskid techniques, etc.
Looking forward to seeing your rebuild come together. The 170 is an awesome skiff, I love mine and truly think it's the perfect small boat.
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Really appreciate all the help here. Think Im mostly concerned with getting the correct materials and doing the layup correct.
Rickk, you mentioned earlier a typical layup on the outer skin would be 3 layers of 1708. Should i be looking to purchase a 50" wide section that is about 10 yards long (enough to cover the transom 3x)? Based on browsing that other thread you linked, i should also be planning on a layer of 3/4 mat for the final outside layer? I was planning on using epoxy, so Ill need to grab that as well. Think i have some shops w/in one hour drive of me that can provide the materials (Defender Marine in CT).
Although expensive, it looks like I may be able to source a 1.5" section of coosa 26. I may be going in that direction for the core material.
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You'll need 3 layers on the outside plus one layer of 3/4oz CSM mat plus 3 layers on the inside plus the 3/4oz csm. The CSM is more for giving you something to fair and for the resin to integrate with. If you use standard 1707 cloth it has a layer of 3/4oz csm sewn in on one side already.
Seems 1708 bi-axial cloth comes in 38" and 50" width rolls. I think a 38" roll will be adequate. How tall is your transom from 12" out in the hull bottom and up to the top? If it is less then 38" I would go with a 38" roll. If it's more than 38, how much more? If only 1 or 2 inches you can adjust the overlap in the layers to compensate. 50" is overkill for a narrow beam boat. To measure for the length - measure across transom and then add 24", 16" or 8" (these are the overlaps). Typical over laps for best strength is 12",8" and 4" - some people go with less.
You can also buy 1708 in a 6 or 12" wide tape. You should also buy a good pair of shears to cut the cloth.
Plan on buying some chopped strand (get a small amount of 1/32" milled fiber and 1/4" strand) and cabosil (http://www.uscomposites.com/fillers.html) to make putty to use for making fillets to round out corners - 1708 doesn't like to traverse sharp corners. When you add the core to the transom, you should lay a good fillet of putty around the hull side and bottom to bed the core into - this avoids sharp corners. Also you trowel thickened resin onto the hardened transom glass and also the core and then clamp the core in. Fill any gaps around perimeter with putty - I usually use a gallon freezer bag and cut a corner off so you can squeeze the putty into where you want/need it. To mix the putty add resin, filler and then mix to get to consistency wanted (like peanut butter) - then add hardener for the amount of putty and mix. You can use rounded paint stirrers or a wooden spoon or make your own in the shape you want. The beauty of epoxy is that it doesn't harden fast, so you have plenty of working time.
Also buy a bunch of mixing buckets - I like the clear ones that have markings on them to measure content. buy one gal and smaller. You can re-use them.
Epoxy - usually has a slow, medium and fast hardener option. I would stick with medium. The slow, depending on temp/humidity can take a few days to harden and then in will run down the transom and pool at the bottom. Here is a good explanation of epoxy - http://www.uscomposites.com/faq_epoxy.html#28
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Rickk,
Guess I'm having a hard time envisioning exactly what the next step is, and how the glass will be laid. Sorry if it seems trivial, but again I've never glassed before.
First thing is I'm guessing ill need to remove the last 18in of stringers, and somehow remove what's left of the original transom core. Then grind everything back to bare glass.
I looked over this thread you posted earlier. (https://www.community.boatbuildercentral.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=11294)
Looks like they are clamping a piece of Melamine to the transom for use as a dam to build up the glass. I'm not quite clear on what happens next.
Am I just cutting a sheet of 6oz cloth that will overlap the hull 12" on either side, as well 12" across the bottom (blue line in pic)? After that cures, laying another sheet that is 8" overlap (green)?
Wont the first layer bond to the Melamine? They state in the thread that "The melanine is coated with mold release wax and PVA", is that something they added?
After all 3 overlaps have cured, am I removing the melanine, then wrapping a final layer of 1708 across the outside, overlapping the exterior of the hull a few inches?
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_20210613_1240392.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=21899&title=img-20210613-1240392&cat=500)
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First thing is to gently cut out the 18" of stringers - set them aside for safe keeping.
Next is to remove the remaining core and grind down the inside lip all the way to the hull (sides and bottom). A 24 grit flap sanding wheel will make short business of this.
Next is to use the same wheel to grind down the hull sides and bottom to clean glass. The 2" lip around the rim of the transom needs to be ground down at a slope from the edge at a sharp edge down to the side or bottom. This will make the cloth transition onto the melamine nice.
If you want to follow Bateau2s example, which is a fine way to do it, I would get all the prep done and then set the cardboard into the hull. Then trace the shape of the old transom onto the melamine. This gives you an idea of where the cloth can be wet out to and where not to. You can wax the melamine (a few coats) or get mold release - see if the supplier sells small qty or the same with PVA.
If you follow my rebuild I took a different approach than was taken on Bateau2. I didn't cut out the transom. https://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=10101.msg89625#msg89625
The main thing to do is cut the melamine down to the about two or so inches above the height of the top of the transom. Now you can clamp a 1x2 across the top of the melamine and use this to hang the 4 layers of cloth on it. If you see in my thread I ran the 38" cloth across the new transom area. Then you flip all 4 layers of glass over and out of the boat. I used 1 layer left of cloth because I still had the transom skin.
Then you flip each layer of cloth into the boat and using your shears, trim the cloth so there are not overlaps down in the corners (I think they call it "pleats") where the side cloth and bottom cloth meet. The overlap of 4,8,12 can be less it you want and you can cut the cloth so it lays down 4,8,12 or 12, 8, 4, doesn't matter because it all melts together. I took a pencil and traced the edge of each cloth overlay onto the hull bottom and sides that way I knew how far to roll out the resin. This is a good time to figure out the PVC pipe and while you're laying down the first fillets (See my rebuild), glue the pipe down. You'll need to cut pleats around it also. Typical expandable drain plugs are 1 1/4" OD. I had not though of using a pipe on my rebuild until after I saw the problem with not using one.
Oh, you'll want to use a 1/4" nap roller sleeve and you need to get a couple of these laminating roller https://www.amazon.com/BBTO-Fiberglass-Laminating-Rollers-Composite/dp/B07CV9RQ5S/ref=asc_df_B07CV9RQ5S?tag=bingshoppinga-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=80333120120276&hvnetw=o&hvqmt=e&hvbmt=be&hvdev=c&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=&hvtargid=pla-4583932699231603&psc=1
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Good advice as always from Rick. If I could add a few cents myself it would be practice on a smaller piece first. You can do this yourself but if you don't have any experience with fiberglass I wouldn't recommend a transom as your first foray into it. There are also a lot of good videos on YouTube that will show you how to lay up a melamine mold. I like Andy with Boatworks Today and a lot of first timers seem to as well.
Do your research, plan it out and be ready for the unexpected and you'll be fine
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Ed - if you have basic carpentry skills you'll be fine - just don't make the process harder that it is. I had zero experience with fiberglass either but could build stuff out of wood.
Epoxy is not a guessing game - it's either 2:1 mix, 3:1 or 4:1. Usually the question that comes up is how much do I mix when using 1708. I was advised to weigh the cloth. I found that if I weighed the cloth (I ordered a digital postal scale) total I could calculate what I needed to mix pretty accurately. Here is an example: I was setting up to do the casting deck hatch, I cut and pleated all the cloth and then weighed it.
https://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=10101.msg118965#msg118965
The total weight was 49.3oz and since I had a couple other things to wet out I added a little over 6 oz. 1708 uses 2+ oz of resin to be saturated per yard so I divided the weight by 3 and the result was I needed to mix 18.6 oz (18oz since I had some excess in the weight). came out with little extra. Extra with epoxy is money wasted (although I wasted my share of epoxy).
Not sure what else you have to do right away but as Mike advised, try something small to start with.
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Hey Rickk
Want to redo another 170 this winter !!??
I need to replace the whole floor and get some weight out of her! :you_rock:
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Hey Rickk
Want to redo another 170 this winter !!??
I need to replace the whole floor and get some weight out of her! :you_rock:
Thanks man but I'll pass. Reach out to dirtwheelsfl - he is a master rebuilder here and has documented a lot of his work here and not just aquasports.
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Just a quick update, haven't made much progress on the boat. My truck needed some attention, so the past few days ive been ordering parts and turning wrenches.
Have a camping trip lined up the next couple weekends so Im not sure how much time ill have to be grinding on the boat, but hoping to really get moving once the schedule frees up.
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So after a couple weekends of fishing and camping, it was back to the grid. Went to Harbor Freight yesterday and picked up an angle grinder and various disks. Started today by removing the remainder of the stringers, chiseling away what was left of the transom core wood, and started grinding in prep for new glass.
Ive heard grinding glass is messy, but boy was I unprepared for it. I was able to get a chunk done, but ultimately the dust got to me. Im hoping that tomorrow I can: buy a full painters suite, buy some glass and epoxy, and finish grinding in prep to lay new glass.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_20210711_132923.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=21945&title=img-20210711-132923&cat=500)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_20210711_145255.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=21946&title=img-20210711-145255&cat=500)
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Nice progress :salut2:
After you grind the gray bit out of the center, it's time to glue in a 1 1/4" ID 12" long PVC pipe into the bottom of the hull. Here is a link to where I explain the thought of the PVC pipe
http://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=13148.msg133124#msg133124
Here is a link to where I show what is actual problem
http://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=13148.msg133556#msg133556
Here is a link to Hawgleg's rebuild that shows the PVC pipe installation to keep a drain at the new low point of the boat
http://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=13148.msg134262#msg134262
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Rickk,
As for the layup of glass. Looks like my local supplier has 6oz cloth in 38in rolls, as well as 3/4oz CSM in 38in rolls. So Im shooting for 3 layers of the 6oz + 1 layer of the CSM.
I checked out the PVC pipe threads, and understand the issue. But is the piece of PVC the whole drain (i.e. is there any sort of fitting or flange that is put on the outside, or is the idea to put the expandable plug directly in the pvc)?
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6oz glass is used for finishing, don't need but you could use a layer as the last layer on the very inside of the boat. The 1708 is 17oz with a layer of 3/4oz CSM sewn in on one side. You may not need a whole roll and can buy it by the running foot (doesn't matter the width - 38 or 50). Measure across the transom at the top and add 24" and multiply x3 for the length you need. That is for the outside lamination, now multiply by 3 again to get the total you'll need for all of the laminations of the transom - 3 outside and 3 inside.
I would plan 1708 with the CSM facing out as my first layer against the melamine and then 2 more layers with the CSM facing aft. I would plan on buying a few more yards because you'll have stuff to laminate as the build progresses and that'll save you a trip back to buy more.
Pipe - 2 options - 1)glue the pipe down to the hull bottom and run it through the remaining lip a little (I see that the drain hole is partially still there). Make sure you press the thickened epoxy (glue) around the pipe especially at the penetration through the lip so it is sealed. Then you trim the glass so it fits pretty snug around the pipe or 2) You can wet out the first layer of 1708 and then glue in the pipe so it is covered on the end with glass, then lay in and wet out the next 2 layers of cloth. The inside of the pipe will end up being your drain and you mount a garboard drain plug over the outside end.
If you have more questions, fire away.
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Hmm, might have to do some homework on other glass suppliers in my area. Looks like the place I know of (Defender Marine) only carries 6 or 10oz cloth and 3/4 or 1.5oz CSM. I dont see 1708 in their inventory.
Jamestown Distributors has 1708 in 38in rolls online. I may go that route as it appears it will ship free. Might take a bit longer, but Id obviously rather get the right stuff for the job. Based on my quick measurements, a 25 yard spool should cover 3 layers outside, and 3 layers inside. Shopping list below, also going to add some epoxy rollers and mixing cups/pumps
Glass:
https://www.jamestowndistributors.com/product/product-detail/1441
Epoxy:
https://www.jamestowndistributors.com/product/product-detail/64341
https://www.jamestowndistributors.com/product/product-detail/64342
Putty:
https://www.jamestowndistributors.com/product/product-detail/97692
https://www.jamestowndistributors.com/product/product-detail/97694
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So let me take a swag here - your beam is 6'10" so round up to 7' + 2'=9' x 6=54'/3 = 18 yards. So you'd have roughly 7 yards for other projects on the boat.
Where are you located Ed? Do you have any marine surplus places around there?
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18 yards was the number i came up with as well. I figured Ill always need more so the spool of 25yds made sense to me.
Im located in CT, Defender Marine was my go to for boating supplies but their glass selection doesnt look great. I have a couple of marinas in my area and could ask them. But the prices from Jamestown didnt seem terribly out of whack.
Did some more grinding today, and got it pretty well down to where i think it should be. Also made a decent lip around the edge to transition. Only real question is, there is a wood pedestal in the center where Im guessing the bilge pump was mounted. Is it fine to just lay glass on top of that?
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_20210712_152030.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=21947&title=img-20210712-152030&cat=500)
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Looks great. If you're talking about the grey round spot, I wouldn't worry about that, the pipe will be glued in that spot anyway. Have you purchased the melamine yet (might want to be sitting down when you see the price for that).
The prices at Jamestown look good, especially if they cover shipping. I compared them to US Composites and the prices seem comparable but shipping is not included with US Composites (good example of the buying power of a Big company compared to a small company). http://www.uscomposites.com/specialty.html
Another national company is composites one - someone told me they deliver to his house or garage...https://www.compositesone.com/product/
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Hoping to pick up the melamine today. Glass and mold release arrived yesterday and resin is expected today. Weather looks like it may cooperate this weekend. Im assuming all 3 layers of glass should be laid at more or less the same time (wet out the first layer and roll out bubbles, add second layer and wet out etc..)? I do not have the core material yet, does it matter if that doesn't get adhered for another week (or more)?
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You have the right plan. You need to mix up some thickened resin (resin+milled fibers+cabosil - you can also use wood flour if you like, in place of the milled fibers) to a peanut butter thickness and then add the hardener and mix. You need to mix enough to round out the corners along the hull sides and bottom and also to stick the pipe to the hull. You can use a wooden spoon, regular spoon, or even make your own from a thin scrap of wood. The radius should be that of a wooden spoon. The reason to round out the corners is because 1708 doesn't like to traverse sharp edges. See this article - https://www.epoxyworks.com/index.php/bonding-with-fillets/
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What you'll be doing is laying in the fillets along corners (and the pipe) and then let the epoxy start to stiffen up. Then you start the laminations of the first layer of glass and when you hard roll the cloth to get the air out don't roll very hard over the fillets so you don't distort them. If you let the fillets harden before doing the laminating you'll have to sand the fillets.
OH - it's ok if you wait a while to set the core. You'll just need to scruff up the surface of the resin for the next stuff to stick.
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Quick update: I bought some PVC board to make the dam. I first put on some of my mold release on a scrap piece and let it cure for an hr. Then i cut a piece of 1708 and mixed up some epoxy and wet it on. I wanted to test out the materials first before i tried laminating the whole skin. The next day after the epoxy fully cured, i was able to remove the glass from the PVC.
I also traced out my transom on the PVC and mocked it up (pic below). I plan on reinforcing the PVC with a couple 2x6's to make it more rigid. Haven't purchased it yet, but found some 1.5in composite material for my core not too far away. Also bought some 1.25in PVC pipe for the drain. Looks like the original drain was much smaller, likely 3/4. Think Im going to go w/ a 1in diam PVC for the drain, seems like that size expandable drain plug is readily available as well.
I also bought some cabosil + milled glass and made a test putty for the corners/drain. Can I lay that stuff on well in advanced, or do i still want it a bit tacky when i actually lay the glass for the skin?
Hoping the weather holds up this weekend to finally get the outside skin created.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_20210722_184000.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=21959&title=img-20210722-184000&cat=500)
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The PVC board template looks great Ed. The more you can do "wet on wet" the less you have to sand between layers. You did some test runs, so you have an idea of how long it takes the resin to kick off. Down here in FL I use slow resin because it is usually warm here. I tried using it once when the temp was in the 60s and it took a couple days to kick off. The beauty of epoxy resin is you usually have plenty of time to apply it, you just have to get it out of the mixing pot quickly and into a roller tray (use the disposable paint tray liners from big box stores).
So, you would want to have the three layers of glass cut, trimmed for the corners where they overlap and also the 4,8,12 overlap (or whatever overlap you chose) and then flipped back out of the boat. Then mix your thickened resin and lay in the fillet. You let it kick enough so it doesn't deform if you touch it and then it is time to start the 3 layer lamination of the 1708.
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The 3 layers of 1708 got laminated today, hope to pop off the mold tomorrow. For the first time dealing with that much glass and epoxy it was quite the learning experience. Overall i think it came out pretty good, but there were a few areas i wasnt 100% thrilled with. Ill have a spot or two where i want to add some additional glass. Should have the pictures to post of it in the next day or so.
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Good for you Ed - sometimes you need to get help mixing while you're in the boat laying the glass and rolling it in.
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Looking good! Great progress! :thumleft:
//Lars
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I definitely had my doubts throughout the process of securing the dam, cutting the glass and laying out the epoxy. But when i popped the mold off today, i was pleasantly surprised on how it all came out. Obviously there are a few areas that need some attention, but overall i think it came out pretty darn good.
Bad news is the store that has my core material isnt open weekends, and is far enough away ill have to take a day off of work. So not sure when Ill have a chance to grab it, but hoping less than 10 days.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_20210802_183524.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=21994&title=img-20210802-183524&cat=500)
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Good job - looks great.
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I was hoping to use a composite material for the transom, but acquiring it is taking some time and presenting a roadblock. On the flipside, it seems i can easily acquire some marine plywood locally. So im thinking thats the route im going to go, so as to not stop progress (and save alot of money).
I can get 5/8 marine plywood, as they are out of 3/4. So the questions are: will 2 layers 5/8 be sufficient (i would think so)? Also Rickk, i noticed you laminated the two pieces of plywood with glass inbetween. Will one layer of 1708 be good for that? And should i use straight epoxy when laminating them or make a thickened mixture w/ cabosil? Thanks again
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The supply problems continue! Same problems on west coast.
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With the out of sight prices on plywood, it’s probably more expensive than coosa but that’s not available. Crazy
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I would not use 5/8" the actual size is just a little over 1/2". You want to end up with 1.5" minimum - so maybe 3 layers of 5/8" I got my 3/4" marine plywood at Lowes.
As for the layer between I would use some CSM, maybe 1.5oz (2 layers of 3/4oz) between each layer. Epoxy doesn't melt the CSM like poly does but it does give the wood something to grab onto. I think at that stage of my rebuild I was still using poly resin. Make sure you are laminating on a flat surface and to keep the layers aligned you can drill a wooden dowel into/through the layers and then grind off the excess. 2 dowels in opposing corners will work. I always used cheap plastic painters drop cloths to cover what I was doing, above and below and weigh down the lamination with cinder blocks
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/IMG_2786.JPG) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16496&title=img-2786&cat=646)
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Sorry for the lack of updates, but unfortunately not much progress has been made. Hoping to make some strides this weekend. Last weekend I picked up the core material, a 4x8 sheet of 1.5in Coosa.
Plan is to fist grind some of perimeter on the inside of the transom to get it square, some of my thicken epoxy made for some interesting angles. Then mock up a cardboard template and get a good fit. I'm assuming ill need to also grid any surface that the core will touch so that's there's fresh glass for the epoxy to mate up with. Probably a good idea to rough up the Coosa surface a bit too.
Once I cut the core to shape, I'm assuming all that needs to be done is trowel on a good, even layer of thickened epoxy and clamp it evenly to the transom skin. Wipe any access that oozes out and allow to cure.
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Good to see you still at it. You're going to have to lightly grind all the new glass with 80 grit to get it ready to get a bite on the core. I did not work with composite coring in the transom so I'll leave that up to someone else to fill you in. I did use small pieces here and there and always added 3/4oz CSM for the pieces to have something to grip.
Remember to round the edges of the core where it'll meet the hull sides and bottom. When you lay in another fillet make sure you use a good roulded applicator to mate with that rounded edge.
The sides and hull bottom will need to be ground clean to prep it for the next 3 layers of 1708.
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Rickk, so your saying I shouldn't mate up the core directly to the 3 layers of glass i originally laid, and instead, i should be adding an additional layer of glass?
After ive cut the core to fit is it best to: cut a piece of glass a matching size, wet it out on the back of the core, then clamp the whole thing to my transom skin
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Your glass is 1708 correct? One side of the 1708 has 3/4oz CSM on it. Did you lam the outside of the transom glass with it or the inside? I always add 3/4oz CSM to give whatever I'm laminating something to grip. Here is a good video on laminating Coosa - around 6 mins he shows adding CSM. https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=instructions+for+coosa+composite&&view=detail&mid=3F61B3FF8058B8A4FD123F61B3FF8058B8A4FD12&&FORM=VDRVRV
Hopefully TB Mike or mshugg will offer their experience on this.
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Thank you, that video was informative. Ill have some pictures tomorrow, but the transom core went in today. First I cut the template out of a 1.5in piece of foam insulation board, then traced it onto the Coosa. Sanded it to fit and cut out a matching sheet of 1708, roughed up all the surfaces and wetted it all out with ample amounts of epoxy. Put the board in and clamped it all down, its all curing now.
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Nice - good job :08:
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A couple pics from yesterday:
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/transferring-the-foam-to-the-coosa.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=22078&title=transferring-the-foam-to-the-coosa&cat=500)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/Checking-the-Coosa-for-fit-768x577.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=22077&title=checking-the-coosa-for-fit-768x577&cat=500)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/Checking-inside-and-out-768x577.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=22076&title=checking-inside-and-out-768x577&cat=500)
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Looks good.
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Im thinking the next step is to add 3 more layers of glass to sandwich the core in. Ill probably do the same hull overlap of 4, 8 and 12in.
Thinking it may be easiest to cut long strips about 6-8in wide to curl over the top of the transom, obviously open to suggestions on that.
Once the transom is sandwiched in, ill likely be looking to cut the remaining deck out,then pop out the liner
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I would vacuum everything where the new glass will go - looks like you've already scruffed it all down.
Are you laying a board across the top to hold the glass you're flipping into the boat? If so, you'll have a lot of loss due to the cutout that can just be rolled over the top of the transom - I would round off the inner edge so the 1708 can roll easier over it. Rolling 1708 is tough without air gaps.
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The inside of the hull is filled with dust, and definitely needs a good cleaning. I left the core just an 1/8 or so proud of the outside transom skin, thinking i could sand it and make an easier radius for the glass. In my head i thought it would be easier to curl a smaller dedicated strip over the top, as opposed to part of a much larger section. Though the reality is its likely not much different.
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Laminated 3 layers of 1708 to the inside of the transom yesterday, still need to trim off some of the excess. I sanded (rounded) the edges of my coosa to make a smoother transition for the glass over the top of the transom and it worked out pretty well. Now that ive got some more glass experience under my belt ive noticed a few areas on the outside skin of the transom that im not thrilled with. Specifically, theres a couple spots that appear to be starved for resin. The 1708 seems to want to soak up alot more than i had first anticipated with my earlier attempt. Im assuming i can just simply grid it back, and build it back up again with new glass and resin. Any reason why that wouldnt work?
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_20210908_162703_HDR.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=22110&title=img-20210908-162703-hdr&cat=500)
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Looks good buddy. Post a pic of the starved area - it may not be worth messing with. You've got 3 layers of glass, core troweled to the new transom glass and now the 3 layers inside - all tying the hull sides and the hull bottom to the core. Unless it is a huge bubble I wouldn't worry about it.
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May be be hard to get a good pic, but Im not terribly concerned about it structurally. More like its something that's going to bug me. Also, I'm planning to add another layer of glass to the exterior of the transom skin anyway, as the transition between the new skin, and the original isn't as seamless as Id like. Game plan was to grind the transition to my liking and wrap a new layer of glass. Here in the Northeast my glassing days are starting to run thin, so figured if I want to tackle it, now may be the time.
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Are you talking about where the new glass meets the edge of the lip you left? You could just "fair" it in with a self mixed filler - epoxy, chopped fibers or wood flour and some micro balloons and/or cabosil. Cabosil by itself can get brittle so mixing it with other stuff helps. The micro balloons are easier to sand down. Other members can give you their secret blend for fairing.
One of the reasons for cutting out the exterior glass of the transom and running new glass from the inside was so you don't have to go through all the fairing that would be required if you replaced the glass from outside. Doing a little fairing as needed to fill that area where the old/new join should be much easier.
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You've got a lot done recently. Nice work! Like Rick said, if it's not a huge area I wouldn't be too concerned with it. When I did mine I ran out of epoxy on the last layer and ended up with some dry patches too. Although I did three layers to fill in the cutout, then three full layers outside, 1 1/2" coosa, and then three full layers inside so technically it was layer nine that was a little dry. Once you fair it and then paint or gelcoat it you'll never know
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Sorry for the lack of updates but not much interesting has happened since. I was gone for a week or so on a fishing trip, and the only progress made on the boat has been cutting out the old deck.
Now that the cold weather is beginning to settle in, I'm unsure if any more glass work is realistic for me. Progress will unfortunately be slow over the winter months, as the boat is outdoors and that will limit my ability to work on it. In all likelihood i will be covering it with a tented tarp in the next few weeks to prevent a snow load.
Ive found a place locally to buy Nidacore panels which i hope to use for the new deck. Thinking Ill be going with 1in thick panels for the deck. If anyone has suggestions on what other parts of this I can tackle while shes wrapped up for the winter Im all ears...
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Your work looks great!
//Lars
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Time to revive this thread from the dead.....
Spring has sprung here in the Northeast, and today the tarp came off the boat. I rolled up my sleeves, grabbed some pry bars and pulled out a large section of the deck that i had started to remove months ago. After some cussing the deck popped off. I didnt do too much inspecting, but at first glance things appear to be in fairly good shape as far as the condition of the stringers go. Thinking its time to order my replacement decking, Ill be going with a 1in honeycomb core. Had a couple thoughts if anyone cares to chime in; Im assuming i can just remove the rub rail, then unscrew the liner and just pop it off. Any issue with doing that (flexing hull?)? Also, youll see in one of my pictures that the deck didnt sit directly on top of the stringers. Instead there appeared to be a foam that sits atop the stringers to support the deck, is this normal?
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_20220320_133927_HDR.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=22540&title=img-20220320-133927-hdr&cat=500)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_20220320_134021_HDR.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=22541&title=img-20220320-134021-hdr&cat=500)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_20220320_134505_HDR.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=22542&title=img-20220320-134505-hdr&cat=500)
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In my 170 of similar vintage, they squirted foam into the gunwale to add flotation and hold the rod holder cutouts in place. This foam comes out between the hull/liner at the bottom and pools on the outboard side of the stringers, so it looks like you have the same situation. I did not remove my liner, but my guess is there is a LOT of adhesion between the liner and hull because of the foam. I can't imagine getting the liner out in one piece, but perhaps I'm wrong!
The putty on top of the stringers is normal, it's like a leveling pad so they didn't have to build to as close of tolerances (also sticks it down to some degree). They smeared it on and dropped the liner in before it cured, so that the stringer support height was touching the bottom of the sole. The putty planes or grinds off very easily if you need to remove it or adjust the height. If it is intact and you are not scooping out your stringers, I would just adjust the height down just enough to account for your extra deck thickness - my two cents.
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Wingnut, thanks for the reply. I havent checked the liner toward the bow platform, but the liner that remains in the picture running toward the transom seems like it will come off w/out much effort (famous last words...) If there isnt much concern of the hull warping due to its removal, Im going to attempt to get it out this weekend. Ive seen several other threads here where its been done, so heres to crossing my fingers.
Also, makes sense with what you stated regarding the foam atop the stringers. My plan from the start was to bring the deck all the way to the hull sides, and create a 3 piece hull with the cap being separate. I was going to run a "cleat" along the hull sides level with the top of the stringers to seat the deck upon. Then cut out most of the remaining liner and set it back in to act as a gunnel cap. I realize i will also have to fabricate some under gunnel supports to sturdy it all up.
Lastly, called my local supplier and ordered several sheets of 1in thick, 4x8' honeycomb panels to build the deck out of. Should have them in hand in a couple weeks. I still have a TON of more work to do, but with all these shipping delays I wanted to get the product sooner than later.
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More progress made this weekend. Removed the rub rail, and the fasteners holding the cap to the hull. Then went around the perimeter with a pry bar and broke it free from the hull. It broke free from the hull with out much drama, worst part was the number of screws holding the rub rail on, many of which had stripped heads. What did add some drama was getting the cap out of the hull. It was heavier than i anticipated, likely in the neighborhood of 300lbs. Took a little ingenuity, and removal of some pieces that i dont plan on using to complete the build. Anyway, next step looks like chiseling out the old foam and cleaning up the junk inside of the hull.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_20220326_162410_HDR.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=22591&title=img-20220326-162410-hdr&cat=500)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_20220327_143833_HDR.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=22592&title=img-20220327-143833-hdr&cat=500)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_20220327_150612_HDR.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=22593&title=img-20220327-150612-hdr&cat=500)
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New here. I have a 170 but it doesnt have an access hatch for a coffin box gas tank. And the current gas tank is above floor under the helm.
Should i chase what isnt there or???
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Welcome aboard Greenlake :thumleft: The early center console models had the fuel tank inside the console - my '71 did.
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Not a ton of progress this weekend, but i was able to remove much of the foam from inside the hull, pretty much down to just glass now. The vast majority of the foam i removed was dry, and the stringers appear to be in solid condition upon initial inspection. I haven't stumbled upon any soft, or clearly delaminated sections yet. Though the wooden bulkheads toward the transom need replacing, but I'm responsible for some of their demise. Been taking some measurements between the stringers and think I've found a gas tank online that will fit. I need to start planning on how to build back the section of stringer i removed to access the transom. But next weekend will likely be spent sanding the inside of the hull.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_20220403_124331_HDR.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=22631&title=img-20220403-124331-hdr&cat=500)
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Doesn't make for sexy progress pics, but spent several hours over the weekend with my grinder cleaning up the inside of the hull. Although I originally didn't want to, starting to realize I have to cut open the tops of the stringers to remove the old foam. Nothing seems wrong with their condition, but think that I've come too far to leave almost 40yr old foam sitting in there. So next weekend i plan on cutting open up the tops as neatly as i can, and removing the old foam. I also still need to build back the section of stringer i removed to cut out the transom. Thinking of building a "dam", then after pouring the new foam, removing it and glassing over it. Is 2lb density Polyurethane flotation foam the right call? Also what sort of glass (1708?) should i use when adding a layer inside the hull for around the tops of the stringers, keel etc? Thanks for any input
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_20220410_152013_HDR.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=22645&title=img-20220410-152013-hdr&cat=500)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_20220410_152603_HDR.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=22646&title=img-20220410-152603-hdr&cat=500)
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Got her nice and clean. :thumright: Good idea on getting the old foam out - piece of mind anyway.
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looks good ed, i used a hole saw and punched a few holes on top ,got a prybar work from rear, break the foam up and push it out the back and work your way forward. saves glass work and aids filling stringers up with foam having more holes to dump in.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/AB4DE7E3-4F23-4286-87A0-5ADEF2810DF6.jpeg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=21034&title=ab4de7e3-4f23-4286-87a0-5adef2810df6&cat=500)
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I like that idea Fish and may give it a shot. Im thinking its going to be a pain digging that foam out w/ a pry bar, but ill be needing to drill those holes on top to fill the foam anyways so Ill likely give it a shot.
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So I started taking some measurements the other day and ran into an issue, hoping someone may have experience and can shed a little light...
Hope to be at the point in the next couple weeks where im finishing off the stringers and adding probably an 1in to their overall height to raise the deck slightly. So i started putting a level on my stringers and noticed i can never seem to get it level on the trailer. Ive adjusted the front jack on the trailer, added some height under one wheel etc, and i notice when i get the aft end of the stingers level, the front is then out and visa versa (almost seems as though the deck slopes down toward the bow). Sort of came to the realization that the boat likely doesnt sit level on the trailer (could be by design, could be the way the bunks are adjusted etc). Then i started thinking, how do i account for how the boat will sit in the water once a 300lb motor is hanging off the transom? I may be really overthinking this and getting caught up in the details. Ideally, Id think i want the deck to be slightly higher toward the bow to help with shedding water toward the transom scuppers. If anyone has experience with this Im all ears, thanks again.
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I cut off 8” pieces off the top every 3’ or so, made it easier to hack out the foam and retop the holes with glass without worrying about keeping square and hull twisting etc
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/92C9A5F4-D4D3-4A16-9018-65E9C968AC77.jpeg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=19949&title=92c9a5f4-d4d3-4a16-9018-65e9c968ac77&cat=500)
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Welp, good news/bad news on the project. Spent Sat morning removing the old leveling foam off the top of the stringers, then took a grinder to them and cleaned up the tops of the stringers. They look nice now. Started to pry out the foam and thats when i heard an odd noise...turns out the old cedar tree right next to the boat is in terrible shape and about to fall. Its in such bad shape Im shocked it didnt come down during a winter storm, it surely would have went right through the hull. So i had to put all the tools away, hitch up the truck to the trailer and get the boat away from danger. So progress on the boat has come to a halt until the tree get removed. Though i did make an executive decision and ordered my gas tank today, 25gal poly for below deck.
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Quick update, took some of the advice here and pryed the foam through access holes. I didnt cut these holes, they were from the factory, most likely where they originally poured the foam. Still some foam i have to remove, but got about 75% of it all out. Overall it was in pretty good shape, stbd side was worse than port, but still not terribly wet. Gas tank also came in, going to have to start dry fitting and figuring out exactly where to run conduit for the outboard controls, etc. Any recommendation on diameter for my rigging tube to the transom? Thinking in the neighborhood of 3in.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_20220424_175626_HDR.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=22676&title=img-20220424-175626-hdr&cat=500)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_20220424_175449_HDR.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=22675&title=img-20220424-175449-hdr&cat=500)
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Looks good Ed. If you plan any bends in the rigging tube(s) 3" should be enough at the bend - you have to test pushing the throttle and shift cables through the bends You can use smaller on the straight portions. I planned 2 tubes.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0953.JPG)
https://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=10101.msg113961#msg113961
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Everything about this thread is like a wet dream to me