Aquasport Model Rebuilds, Mods, Updates and Refreshes => Osprey Style Hull Rebuilds => 165/170/175 Rebuilds => Topic started by: TimeVirus on June 01, 2018, 08:25:24 AM
Title: 1975 Aquasport 170 with a 2000, 2001? Yamaha 115hp 2 stroke.
Post by: TimeVirus on June 01, 2018, 08:25:24 AM
Hello all,
Thank you very much for those links! Those and ideas for restoration were exactly what I was hoping for. :dancing:
I'm so glad I stumbled across this forum! Thanks to Rick I'm all grins regarding the response to my application, very warm indeed.
As for the boat, the transom seems to be as sound as brand new, so I figure it must have been done. The rear deck, from behind the console to the inspection port has soft spots, so that's first on the to do list. If I'm not mistaken, they used 5/8" plywood, yes? I'm thinking Coosa board will be it's replacement. I didn't seatrial the boat before I bought it, the price was so good. When I finally do get it out on the water I'll see if it has any stringer issues. The man I bought it from said I won't be disappointed and I believe him. The engine fired up fine enough and sounds real good. His son is an outboard mechanic and he said he got ~120 lbs pressure on each compression test.
This will be a good challenge of a hobby for me. With the help of the forum I'm sure we'll all get another 170 ready for its next 50 years. I'm not an expert boat builder by any stretch but I have done fiber glass work thanks to an '86 Prindle 18 rebuild I was part of, as well as a '68 Montauk restoration. In the end, I was the proud owner of that Prindle. My brother and a partner owned the Montauk.
Anyway, I need to get started on the day. Need to find a way to lift the boat off the trailer or a place I can float it and knock out some trailer repairs. So let's call this day one. :thumleft:
I live in Clearwater, FL and have lived in Pinellas county since 1970, less 4 years around the country as a Telecommunications Construction Technician with AT&T and others. This has got to be one of the very best places on the planet to float a fishing boat, (Tampa Bay area). The plan is to do the restoration in stages during the winter months and fishing during spring, summer and fall?
Thanks again Rick, for the welcome. I'm going to use the forum as something of a restoration log. Maybe even post some snaps of the fishing months?
Good day all. Keep me motivated! Lol. :nSalute:
TimeVirus (Dan)
PS, I sure can yap, huh?
Title: Re: 1975 Aquasport 170 with a 2000, 2001? Yamaha 115hp 2 stroke.
Post by: RickK on June 02, 2018, 08:40:59 AM
Welcome aboard Dan - you've got a few months of reading ahead of you to look through the data stored here :c029:
When you start documenting the work make sure you use your gallery and follow this thread https://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=12725.0 It'll take care of sizing the pics and there is no limit. When attaching files, there is a size limit.
Title: Re: 1975 Aquasport 170 with a 2000, 2001? Yamaha 115hp 2 stroke.
Post by: TimeVirus on June 07, 2018, 01:40:48 PM
I finally got the boat out on the intercoastal a couple days ago. The engine runs real fine until I run it to about 70% or more throttle for much more than ~30 seconds (there are no gauges, tach included, except for a failed gas gauge) so I can't say what rpm I'm at. When I've run the engine up for x amount of time it will suddenly lose power, and run and sound like it's dropped a cylinder. I back down the throttle to about 33% and in about a minute or so it'll smooth out again. Hoping it's the fuel filter. Are there any ideas out there what this could be? After I repair the trailer, the first thing I'm going to do is make a nice teak plate for gauges, tach, fuel, battery, and speed. The boat came with a Garmin GPSmap 541s, so maybe the speedometer gauge is a bad idea. I really need a tach though. Another thing that has me thinking is that the phone can also do speed by gps. I absolutely love google maps, I use my phone and maps for work and I'm wondering if there is a Google Charts. :think: That would be awesome!
That day I took the boat off the trailer was to work on replacing a lot of the hardware on the trailer, and at least cover the bunks. I ran the boat over to the public dock and left it there while I went about trying to get the bunk bracket bolts off. I had been spraying penetrating oil on them for a couple days but the first bolt I tried would not budge using a pair of channel locks. I'm afraid that if I take a large pipe wrench to it/them I'm just going to twist/break them. The boat is tied to a public dock in downtown Clearwater who's hours of operation are 9-5, and I don't know how safe it would be if I left it there for a couple days. :confused1: So I decided to go seatrial the boat and see how it and the motor does. Other than the rpm limit it has, they seem good enough for now. I didn't notice any softness or twisting in the boat running through waves at various angles of attack. Seems solid. I'll get a much better idea about the stringers, maybe, when I go about replacing the rear deck core. That depends on weather or not I save the glass under the core. Just cut the top off and get the wood out, kind of thing. A 4x8 sheet of 1/2" Coosa Board Bluewater 26 is $285. The less dense (cheaper) Coosa Board 15 is about $90 cheaper but I don't know how well it will hold screws. I'm also thinking the decks might be structural. If anyone has an opinion on this (Coosa 15) for the deck, is it a good or not so good idea, by all means, speak up. Right now I think the cheaper Coosa isn't really a good option for the deck.
Title: Re: 1975 Aquasport 170 with a 2000, 2001? Yamaha 115hp 2 stroke.
Post by: RickK on June 07, 2018, 05:50:28 PM
Sounds like it has low oil in the reservoir or has gotten hot and the engine has dropped into survival mode. Usually limits you to 15-2500 rpm. Mine does this every time my oil rez is low.
Title: Re: 1975 Aquasport 170 with a 2000, 2001? Yamaha 115hp 2 stroke.
Post by: TimeVirus on June 07, 2018, 07:18:38 PM
Thanks Rick. The oil injection system was removed by a previous owner. I put 5 gallons of gas and 15oz of TWC3 synthetic blend ($29/gal) in the tank before I took it out. I checked the water coming out of the engine when power dropped, thinking it might have gotten hot too, but it wasn't hot at all, just warm. I'll keep that in mind and make sure next time though. Thanks.
Title: Re: 1975 Aquasport 170 with a 2000, 2001? Yamaha 115hp 2 stroke.
Post by: mshugg on June 08, 2018, 04:44:34 AM
The 15 lb Coosa is more than adequate for your deck. In fact more decks are probably cored with lighter H80 Divynecell (5lb) or even lighter Nidacore honeycomb. One thing about all forms of Coosa, is peel strength. It is important to hot coat it with whatever resin you are useing prior to applying your laminations.
No composite foam including Coosa 26 holds screws well. Light weight items can be screwed, but you’re really just useing the skin for strength. The best practice is to overdrill, fill with epoxy, then screw into the epoxy plug.
Title: Re: 1975 Aquasport 170 with a 2000, 2001? Yamaha 115hp 2 stroke.
Post by: Capt. Bob on June 08, 2018, 08:53:08 AM
Sounds like a sticking high pressure valve (aka poppit valve). This occurs at speed and causes the engine to drop in the "slo-mode" This cause the engine temperature to drop back into the operational range and you can resume speed. You may wish to check/replace this valve.
Good luck. :thumright:
Title: Re: 1975 Aquasport 170 with a 2000, 2001? Yamaha 115hp 2 stroke.
Post by: TimeVirus on June 08, 2018, 09:21:47 AM
Crud, I was afraid this response was out there. I've seen epoxy plugs pop out on thier own even, though they were much bigger than screw holes. I'm guessing when Coosa Board is used for a transom the important things are through-bolted anyway. I'm going to need all the time I have before this winter (when I plan on tearing into the deck) for more education on the subject, for sure. If epoxied screws is the best answer, then so be it. That must be why a bait well base has so many screws huh. Thanks, mshugg
Title: Re: 1975 Aquasport 170 with a 2000, 2001? Yamaha 115hp 2 stroke.
Post by: TimeVirus on June 08, 2018, 09:30:34 AM
I'll go ahead and replace that valve. Thanks Capt. Bob. :nSalute:
Title: Re: 1975 Aquasport 170 with a 2000, 2001? Yamaha 115hp 2 stroke.
Post by: wingtime on June 08, 2018, 10:48:36 AM
Hi Dan,
I'm in the Clearwater St Pete area. I have a 1987 170 and a 1998 245 Explorer. Let me know if you want to meet up sometime.
Bruce
Title: Re: 1975 Aquasport 170 with a 2000, 2001? Yamaha 115hp 2 stroke.
Post by: TimeVirus on June 08, 2018, 01:27:26 PM
Thanks Bruce, that sounds like a good idea. Once I get the trailer fixed we could meet up sometime. I'd like to see your 170, maybe there are some ideas I can rob from it :93: But then maybe not...I'm betting there is a vast difference between a '75 and an '87. Did you do much rebuild on the 170 when you got it? Maybe you've some good info, tips & tricks for me even.
Title: Re: 1975 Aquasport 170 with a 2000, 2001? Yamaha 115hp 2 stroke.
Post by: TimeVirus on June 09, 2018, 07:50:43 AM
My outboard steering is too easy! If I let go of the wheel it will turn itself to the stop (full starboard or full port). Torque will more easily turn the steering full starboard, of course, but after x% port steering if I let go it'll go full port on it's own. I search and search "too easy", "too loose". Results for too easy returns replacing the cable, that they wear over time. Is that the only solution? Is there really no way to tighten it up? Lol if I dirty up things, as in 'steering too hard or stuck'? When I was looking at the boat, before buying it, I tested the steering. I was expecting stiff steering, but nooo. At that time I thought it was fine. Once I got the boat out on the water I found I have to keep hands on the throttle and steering or they move. I found the throttle adjustment, so no prob. there. Real puzzling to me there isn't something similar in the steering. Bah Oh by the way, there is no play in the steering, just too loose/easy.
Title: Re: 1975 Aquasport 170 with a 2000, 2001? Yamaha 115hp 2 stroke.
Post by: RickK on June 09, 2018, 08:16:54 AM
Is the anode/tab on the lower unit of the engine, just above and behind the prop, even there?
Title: Re: 1975 Aquasport 170 with a 2000, 2001? Yamaha 115hp 2 stroke.
Post by: TimeVirus on June 09, 2018, 07:45:37 PM
Yes, the anode is there and relatively new. Not that.
Title: Re: 1975 Aquasport 170 with a 2000, 2001? Yamaha 115hp 2 stroke.
Post by: TimeVirus on June 11, 2018, 01:30:35 PM
At the moment, the only theory I have is that the steering system is the wrong system for the engine. Slopped in to save a few bucks maybe. I need to look for a serial # and do me some lookin up. The looking around I've done thus far shows different systems for different sizes of engine, which makes sense I guess. bah
Title: Re: 1975 Aquasport 170 with a 2000, 2001? Yamaha 115hp 2 stroke.
Post by: RickK on June 11, 2018, 02:13:27 PM
Still is very weird - I've seen engines move easily when the steering is not attached.
Title: Re: 1975 Aquasport 170 with a 2000, 2001? Yamaha 115hp 2 stroke.
Post by: TimeVirus on June 13, 2018, 06:54:56 PM
Rick
I've been reading your 170 rebuild from some years ago. I'm about 1/3 the way through now and have to say you've set the bar high, sir. I like the way you overbuilt the stringers and the way the poly tank fits. Awesome! What puzzles me is why use so much 3/4" ply in the console? Are you going to take on low hanging bridges? Maybe you're going to take on a battleship or 2?! I love how my console already has the seat and backrest that open foreward, but I'd also love to have the live baitwell under that seat and have the batteries behind it. Access the batteries under the helm. I'm thinking I'd like to use teak panels for mounting the gauges, helm and swithes. Teak is so beautiful! The tank on my boat was recently replaced with a 27gal poly tank too. I'm betting he had the same problem others had removing and replacing the fill tube because he routed that and the new vent up and out, what is for me, the wrong side of the console. He didn't put a boot there either (where the fill and vent come throught the tank hatch) so I wonder if the tank tub is full of water. At times when I seatrialed the boat, it really seemed to have a port list. I'm wondering if the port stringer is holding a ton of water, or what. The boat also seemed to be stern heavy. I couldn't seem to trim the bow down to level enough lol. I really wanted to put a 25ish gal live baitwell under a leaning post but the trim problem made me think the baitwell should go under the front seat. I'm going to have to figure out how to build one from scrtach out of fiberglass. I can't find one that fits the dimensions there under the console seat. That shouldn't be so tough I reckon/hope. You were right, I do have a ton of reading to do, and that is well in progress. Forums are such a great resource!
Title: Re: 1975 Aquasport 170 with a 2000, 2001? Yamaha 115hp 2 stroke.
Post by: TimeVirus on June 13, 2018, 07:23:04 PM
I have so many questions! And I already get so wordy. Really good to see all the great brains on this forum to pick. :bravo_2: Yes, I'm going to drill into, at least the port side stringer and see if it gushes water. I'm thinking that if it does, I may just drain it and keep a close eye on it until I can get to it indepth.
P.S. ... My boat needs love (me) :-)
Title: Re: 1975 Aquasport 170 with a 2000, 2001? Yamaha 115hp 2 stroke.
Post by: RickK on June 14, 2018, 05:40:26 AM
I've been reading your 170 rebuild from some years ago. I'm about 1/3 the way through now and have to say you've set the bar high, sir. I like the way you overbuilt the stringers and the way the poly tank fits. Awesome! What puzzles me is why use so much 3/4" ply in the console? Are you going to take on low hanging bridges? Maybe you're going to take on a battleship or 2?!
LOL. I hope not to take on anything. She is stout now though. The console had plywood backing on the sides when I started. I cut that out and then the creation/evolution started. I figured a lot of stuff gets attached to the console and you need a heavy backing to get a sturdy attachment, so I figured I might as well use wood to make the console. I also needed a little more weight forward to compensate for the engine offset. It's definitely a one of a kind console now.
Title: Re: 1975 Aquasport 170 with a 2000, 2001? Yamaha 115hp 2 stroke.
Post by: TimeVirus on June 22, 2018, 07:38:51 AM
Over the past few days I've been thinking my steering problem is in the type of system it is. Now I'm thinking that this system is not a no feedback system. The difference between no feedback (NFB) and not NFB is in the helm. No feedback has a clutch in the helm to counteract prop torque. So I need to to go take a look at the helm and see. I'm betting that if I replace the helm with NFB helm the problem will be solved. What say you all?
Title: Re: 1975 Aquasport 170 with a 2000, 2001? Yamaha 115hp 2 stroke.
Post by: TimeVirus on July 08, 2018, 07:06:00 AM
Rick
I've read most of your rebuild, dern good work! What puzzles me is why not pour 2 lb urethane foam under the deck, between the braces, outside the stringers to add to the boats 'unsinkablity'? Something I'm seriously considering doing myself. It must have been tricky as hell to mix and apply the 'glue' for the deck in time before you put the deck in/on. On top of the stringers, bulkheads, and braces and get the deck on and weighted down before the glue setup too much. The spaces outside the stringers are just wasted voids otherwise, and to trust in a perfect adhesion between everything is something, I personally, am a bit leary of. You have everything so nicely piped in and all, your boat seems like a real good candidate for lots more foam. I've seen so many vids of boats going down that its got me thinking. A friend lost his Carolina Skiff in the shipping channel between Egmont and Ft. Desoto to a quick change in weather and a wave. He said it took about 30 seconds for it to get off the surface! The surface is where most boats belong, and ~65' from there is completely unacceptable to me!
I'm also thinking of adding a splash well in front of the transom. Lost deck space though.
I'd hate to go through all the work, have all the pride that goes with the kind of work you've done, to have all that end up on the bottom being just another Bay Liner ;-) bah.
I'd like to find his boat and see if I could get it back on the surface again for him. I think it could be done with 1 or 2 hundred feet of line and 115hp (my engine). Finding it would be the nearly impossible part, I bet.
Title: Re: 1975 Aquasport 170 with a 2000, 2001? Yamaha 115hp 2 stroke.
Post by: RickK on July 08, 2018, 07:35:51 AM
Hi TV - thanks for the kind words. I didn't think I needed to foam the outsides, so I didn't. The top of the boat is pretty water tight. Hopefully if I need to evac a lot of water, it'll go out over the low transom and through the 3 scuppers I have. Well, lets hope I never have to experience that. As for gluing down the floor - I used epoxy, so you have some working time. My floor had the center cut out for the fuel tank area, so I used that to my advantage when setting the floor in place. I set the big piece of floor across the top of the boat. I mixed up a good sized batch of resin and cabosil using a drill with mixer. Then I poured that into a gallon baggy and cut a corner off it. I climbed into the boat and squeezed the "glue" out along all the stringers and cross braces, like a baker would decorate a cake. I stood in the tank well, grabbed the floor and pulled it over my head and lowered it around me into place. I then walked across the floor and out of the boat. I had a stack of cinder blocks ready and set them in place from the outside of the boat.
Title: Re: 1975 Aquasport 170 with a 2000, 2001? Yamaha 115hp 2 stroke.
Post by: TimeVirus on July 08, 2018, 12:21:56 PM
I like the idea of the cake decorator bag! I'ma use that idea if you didn't patent the process. :-) With your deck being above the water line now, I imagine there'd be enough time for the water to scup out. Something I've been pondering also. I think that may be better than a splash well.
Title: Re: 1975 Aquasport 170 with a 2000, 2001? Yamaha 115hp 2 stroke.
Post by: doug mayer on July 08, 2018, 03:55:35 PM
The NFB (no feedback) helm requires 4.2 turns, lock to lock. The QC (quick connect) helm requires only 3 turns lock to lock. Since both require the arm strong method of steering, NFB requires slightly less effort.
Title: Re: 1975 Aquasport 170 with a 2000, 2001? Yamaha 115hp 2 stroke.
Post by: TimeVirus on July 08, 2018, 10:48:07 PM
Yes Doug. I plan on holding out on hydraulics a good long time.. It's a light boat and only has one, 2 stroke, 4 cylinder engine. I love how smooth hydraulics are, and talk about NFB! But at the moment the only problem is with it being too easy for feedback to spin (torque) the engine full starboard -- NOW! lol at least that's my story (theory), & I'm sticking to it, for now... ;-) I don't know why anyone would ever choose a QC helm over NFB. It baffles me. What if my rod gets hit while I'm trolling? No, that would take too long. Besides, I might miss neutral and drop into reverse. Bah
I climbed up into the boat and took a look at the helm and there is no clutch on it. Soon as I get a new trailer under the boat so i can, at least get it to & in the water, where I can whine most about having to fight the wheel to make the boat do what I want it to do! A new NFB helm is 1st on the list. Oh I'm sorry, did I rant? I should be good enough for some light (boat load) fishing, easily before fall. Once the fishing dies off for winter, tarpon and even the kings are out of town... Then I'll take the deck off (its got soft spots aft of the console) and see what other gifts might lie thereunder. :-)
Thinking I'd like a new wheel too. One of those with the knob, all stainless of course.
Title: Re: 1975 Aquasport 170 with a 2000, 2001? Yamaha 115hp 2 stroke.
Post by: mshugg on July 09, 2018, 03:30:28 AM
Title: Re: 1975 Aquasport 170 with a 2000, 2001? Yamaha 115hp 2 stroke.
Post by: TimeVirus on July 10, 2018, 06:10:31 AM
Nice... Thanks Mshugg
Title: Re: 1975 Aquasport 170 with a 2000, 2001? Yamaha 115hp 2 stroke.
Post by: TimeVirus on July 29, 2018, 11:50:23 AM
I decided to buy another trailer for the boat. I really like the Owens and Sons trailers but can't really afford the $2475.00 price tag of a new one. So I bought a used one that I can make work very much like an Owens. Right now each of the 2 main bunks sit on the 2 main cross beams, either side of the torsion axel, about 61" from outside to outside. I'm going to change that to 60". I'm going to add 2 bunks up foreward to guide the bow to the stop and help center the boat on the trailer, rather than a V or rollers. My question is, how far apart should they be? I'm undecided between 6" & 8" between 2x4 bunks attached to the two front I-beams. I have to make this decision now because finding 4" x 4" stainless U-bolts is nearly impossible. I think the best option, then, is to drill through the I-beam Web to mount bunk hardware. http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showgallery.php?cat=500&ppuser=129469
Title: Re: 1975 Aquasport 170 with a 2000, 2001? Yamaha 115hp 2 stroke.
Post by: TimeVirus on August 03, 2018, 06:57:28 AM
I went to my local trailer parts store bought a few things and on the way out I saw someone else's trailer with bow bunks. The owner of said trailer and the parts guy were coming out of the store to discuss something about his trailer and when there was a break in the conversation I asked about the bunks, about proper spring and whatnot. The parts guy said you want the bow bunks to be 2x6, together at the front and wider at the rear, otherwise the keel will bind on the way up the trailer. Makes sense. So now the plan is to loosely mount the bunks, get under the trailer and make everything 'just so'. I'm going to have the best trailer on the planet :-) lol.
I don't really like the way the main bunks are mounted to the trailer, so I'm going to use the proper L-brackets, and that will free up the needed U-bolts for the bow bunks \0/. Everyones going to DROOOL when they see my boat on my trailer, in the end. I'm going to need to carry kleenex! Ahhhhhhahaha
Bugetary constraints keep me slow, but that's a good thing. I've done some fiberglass work in the past, but nothing this major before. So slow with time to think, read forums and watch videos first is just fine, thank God for you all!. I owned a 1986ish, 18' Prindle back in the '90s that needed some pretty major hulls repair, which after some mistakes, learning and correcting, sailed real well. I worked for Continental for about 9 months building trailers 3 or 4 years ago, that experience helps, of course. For me, at least, slow is the way to go.
Title: Re: 1975 Aquasport 170 with a 2000, 2001? Yamaha 115hp 2 stroke.
Post by: TimeVirus on September 11, 2018, 09:30:25 AM
The trailer has been done a couple weeks now and tuned in as a great fit for an Aquasport 170 built in 1975. pretty happy with it, for sure. Next is the helm upgrade to NFB and the new steering wheel. Then I need to investigate the fuel tank and troubleshoot the fuel gauge. Damn near ran out of gas a few miles from the dock last time out, kinda got back on fumes, really! Was puttering down the ICW @ 6mph and the engine died. I dropped down to idle to keep the fuel tank level until I got to "Resume normal, safe" waters and ran @ 25mph ( also level ) then back to idle for the last 1k feet under the Belaire Causeway bridge cutting the corner for a more direct route to the ramp. Phew! I'm Wondering if the fuel pickup is in the right place in the tank and if its the right tank for the boat even. My off the top of head calculations are pretty spot on, gallons per hour wise, but the last trip was MIGHTY close to swimming it back lol. This 17 year old Yamaha is amazing, very reliable!
Title: Re: 1975 Aquasport 170 with a 2000, 2001? Yamaha 115hp 2 stroke.
Post by: RickK on September 11, 2018, 10:38:56 AM
We need more trailer porn of the finished trailer ;-)
Title: Re: 1975 Aquasport 170 with a 2000, 2001? Yamaha 115hp 2 stroke.
Post by: wingtime on September 11, 2018, 11:59:29 AM
Dan,
I haven't read this thread in a while. The steering on my 170 was kinda easy... not super easy.. but easy. My 90HP Evinrude is a torque monster. If I wasn't holding on to the wheel good it could rip the wheel right out of my hand if I throttled up quick.
My steering cable started to get stiff so I decided to replace it. I thought about switching to the Baystar hydraulic steering, however cost and interference with my jack plate ruled that out. I settled on the NFB system instead. Tobe honest I was able to get a good deal that didn't cost much more than just the cable alone. Man I'm glad I decided to get the NFB. It makes driving the boat MUCH less stressful. I no longer have to hold pressure on the wheel to counteract the torque of the motor. The wheel doesn't not try to jerk out of my hand when I throttle up. I can let go of the wheel for short periods of time without the boat veering off course. By far the best upgrade I've made to the boat. I have some videos on my youtube page on replacing the cable and helm.