Classic AquaSport
Aquasport Model Rebuilds, Mods, Updates and Refreshes => Osprey Style Hull Rebuilds => 22-2 Rebuilds => Topic started by: Nfratino on February 08, 2017, 04:08:37 PM
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Hello all. I have a 1986 22-2 Osprey that I plan to spend the next two months doing some work on. I had a few questions i was hoping to get some feedback on. I plan to redo the floor due the the various soft spots around the console/coffin box. I also plan to repaint and roll and tip the topsides of the hull. The main question I have is on the transom. There are no major stress cracks but the top cap of the transom has a crack in it. I was planning to pull the swim ladder off/potentially do a test hole to see what the core looked like. I would really like to not have to re core the transom if not needed. Any input is appreciated.
Thank you
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If you are talking about a crack that is about an inch from the top of the transom, that is normal (the liner comes up and over the transom and is the joining area of the two) but can be a source of water intrusion and would need to be sealed up. Make sure the transom is sound by tilting up the motor, lay across the lower unit and bounce a little on it, watching the transom for flex as you do.
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RICK,
Thanks for the reply. It seems like a thin flap that has pulled away so im assuming that is the liner. It was caulked when i bought the boat. I have moved the motor a ton and have not noticed any flexing. I removed the swim platform tonight and the screws came out dry. The boat hasnt been kn the water for weeks but im assuming thats a good sign.
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This is what the crack on my transom looked like
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e19/rkins/2012%20170%20Rebuild/CIMG0598.jpg)
Here is what the inside looks like under the top of the transom.
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e19/rkins/2012%20170%20Rebuild/CIMG0600.jpg)
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I will try to get some pictures up tonight. My crack is on the inside of the transom all the way at the top seam of the transom running horizontally. Is the move here to cut out the cracked portion and refill with coosa? I would rather not continue to caulk the seam.
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You can use a dremel to gouge a little out along the crack and then fill it with thickened resin and paint over it.
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Well i am in full deck replacement mode now. Once i figure out how to post pictures from my phone we should have some images. Once i sorted/labeled all my wireing i was able to get the coffin box cover off. The cover was completely saturated and weighed at least 200lbs. I was please to find no fuel smell beneath just a very grimy looking tank. Not sure what my next move is with the tavk but my main priority is to get the new deck in. Does anyone have pictures of how to new deck will interact with the coffin box/tub? My plan was to cut around the perimiter of the deck, leave a 6" lip to tie into and replace with coosa. is it typical to go on top of the coffinbox and pad up? any pics of these flooring details specifilly would be a big help. i hate to start cutting away the coffin box thats in good shape.
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Most people who do a full deck replacement scrap the tank coffin and make their tank compartment with bulkheads. You'l find plenty of examples in the rebuilds of this. Another option would be to keep a lip when you remove the coffin and reseed It into your new deck. If your coffin was like mine, part of the deck/liner assembly, I'd want to do more than just lay my deck over it.
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Here are some updates as to how to boat sits. I would like to retain the same tank and box if possible. I will most likely make a new hatch that is removable. I am up in the air about the tank. Any tips on getting the fuel and lifting the tank out? It probably has 10-30 gallons in it since i used the boat during hunting season. I could go to a smaller poly tank but if the factory just needs a good cleaning id like to stick with it. My plan for the the deck is to leave a 4-6" lip around the perimeter to but the coosa too and then glass and tab up the sides up of the hull. Not trying to make a show piece here but want it to look decent at the same time. This boat is fished/crabbed hard in the Chesapeake bay. Any input is helpful. Thanks.
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Any tips on getting the fuel and lifting the tank out?
I used a bulb type siphon kit to drain the old fuel through the sender hole. A couple of 5 galon glass cans and three trips to the hazardous waste facility at the land full and the fuel was gone. Once empty, the tank is manageable. I think I removed my 70+ gallon tank by myself.
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Nfratino, you can remove the coring from the back of the tank lid and recore it easy enough - plenty of examples of how to do that here. For the lip around the tank you can cut that out and re-use it also, build up underneath the lip to compensate for the thickness of the material you left around the perimeter (if you're going to lay new flooring on top) and glass the lip to the new floor material.
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Thanks for the input guys. This is my first stab at a deck repair so we will see how it goes. I think i am picking up what your saying about the lip. My plan was to leave a perimeter around the coffin box and butt into that rather go on top so everything stays in the same plane. I will essentialy have tabs around the perimeter of the deck on the outside and around the coffin box for the new deck to sit on. Or is it possible that i could split the difference on the stringers where the lip rolls down into the coffin box.
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Made some progress today. I was surprised to find the majority of the flotation foam that was in place was dry. I pulled up any foam that was loose from the hull. The stringers seem rock solid but there are a few spots where the foam seems damp. I really dont want to get into a full overhaul since i am not removing the transom. I plan to use the same coffin box, it looks like i can remove the core from the lip and slid the new deck into it then glass on top. I plan to re core the coffin box lid. The starboard side flotation foam seems very solid, has anyone poured directly on top of this? I am not sure why there were cutouts left in the stingers. Wouldn't the factory have glassed over this once the stingers were filled? For the outside perimeter lip i plan to screw a 2x6 or some sort of material that i can get a good bite on when i lay the floor. This blocking will be glassed to the hull and foamed in place. Does this method sound feasible?
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I am having a hard time making up my mind on the fuel tank. I plan to drain it tonight, remove and clean to inspect. Im assuming this is the original tank. When i removed the coffin box lid there was not any standing water and it was pretty dry, the tank is just discolored greenish. I really dont have in my budget to replace the tank due to cost of glass and coosa etc. Has anyone rolled the dice on a older tank? Keep in mind there is no fuel smell in the coffin.
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You can always have the tank pressure tested. If the tank is original that would make it 30+ years old, if it were me I'd replace it. Last thing you'll want to do after you get her floating again is pull and replace the tank.
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Is the majority going to poly?
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Just a follow up to BA's advice (which is mine also), pressure test with the tank removed. You will find corrosion under those mounting straps at the very least. Often times that will become apparent when the tank is full and shifts even slightly in a rough sea. You will then smell fuel so...
Remove the tank, clean the outside and post up a pic. Also, measure the tank and post up the dimensions for future use by other members. As to poly, sure if you can find one that will fit your coffin and give you the capacity you need. Many here go aluminum (myself included) for the ability to get both the size (fit) and gallon amounts they desire. Properly installed, aluminum will last a long time.
Good luck. :thumright:
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When i remove and clean i will be sure to post. Sooooooooo in better news....i took the transom cap off last night in hopes to find a dry core. The two 3/4" pieces of plywood have pulled away from one another and i can pinch them back together with my hand. The core is not trash but it is wet. I can rack the motor back and forth with no flex. I am guessing my next move is to remove the motor and cut/re core from the outside. My stringers are dry for the most part and look clean at the transom location. This is becoming more and more of a project unfortunately. I dont anticipate pulling all the core out from above because some of the wood is still solid. Would the cut/recore be my best bet here?
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Pressure test, a good visual inspection, really dig and poke at any spots of corrosion,, especially under and around the neoprene strips. If it passes this, it may be worth keeping. You're keeping the tank coffin and lid right? At least then, a future tank replacement won't require taking a saw to the deck.
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Transom updates. Any thoughts here?
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What's your plan for the boat? Do you plan to fish her for 3-4 years and sell or do you plan to keep her many years? If the later, I recommend a new transom core. You mentioned that the core is wet, wet means fungus, fungus means rotten transom. If you plan to keep the existing core you will need to treat that wood to kill the fungus, look for a product called copper-tox wood treatment. As I stated before regarding your fuel tank, the transom is 30+ years old and if it were me I'd recore. And since you already have the deck out, I'd recore from the inside and leave the outside skin intact. You should also consider adding an inch and a half of core to your stringer tops. This will raise your deck an inch and a half and keep your feet dry when crabbing and fishing. Boats are budget busters, they all go over budget. Good Luck with your project.
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My plan is to hang on to the boat for a while and have it for my kids to run/crab around our river once i get a bigger boat. My stringers look/feel very solid so I rather not cut into the transom from behind. I have also kept the back motor well in tack because that area is rock solid. Does anyone have a link to someone removing the skin from the outside and re coring then reattaching? I have thought about seacast as well but i dont like the idea of only being able to clean from above.
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IM going back and fourth on the transom. Yesterday i got the motor off and the core is very solid just damp. Has any one drilled a grid and pumped git rot or somthing simillar in this situation. I hate to cut the back out if i can get a few more seasons out of this since there is no transom flex. The 2 pieces of 3/4" have separated from eachother but show little sign of delamination. I can easily clamp them together. Am i just prolonging a issue here?
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T-top blocking. I have a question regarding the new floor going in and blocking. The t-top sits atop of the main stringers which are foam filled and seem to be about 1/8" thick. I would not like to rely on the Coosa for all the holding power. Does anyone have something that has worked in the past? I would like to put a backing plate in but the stringer is in the same plane and i do not want to elevate the floor. My plan was to cut out holes in the 3/4" Coosa to match the t-top legs and inststall 3/4" ply before i glass the top. I could also mount aluminum plate and tap into that i was just hoping for some advice. Thanks
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Start here.
http://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=11210.0
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Thanks for the thread. Ive decided to raise the deck high and go on top of the perimeter tabs and pad up thr stringers. Is the common theme here to pad and glass over? I have heard of some old school guys using hard woods such as poplar during constrution. Is there a material i could epoxy to the stringers and the new coosa deck that would not require a new glass cap on top of the stringers? I hate to put wood back into the boat but i am building on a budget not trying to make a show piece. Any info wouls be great. I will post dimensions of the stock tank soon.
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You can make the pads out of Coosa or whatever composite material you want. I used material left over from my transom to raise my stringers. I would be concerned about the bond between deck and stringers if you don't encapsulate the pads with glass. If you do cover with glass the pads become part of the stringers.
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Update:
I am going different route with my project and wanted to provide a update. I was having a hard time getting my coffin box where i needed it to be and really figuring out what i wanted to do with the floor. My plan is it encapsulate all the poplar wood in vinylester epoxy then pad up the remaining voids atop the stringers with coosa. My new coosa deck will set atop the perimeter of the existing deck affixed with thickened epoxy. This was a quicker route for me instead of building all new bulkheads/stringer replacement. Keep in mind i will run this boat for a while fishing/crabbing with the intent to buy a bigger boat in a few years down the road. Any input here? Constructive criticism is a good thing. Does anyone see an issue with the poplar holding the stock 75/80 gal tank? I will also provide 4 blocks attached to the sides of the stringers in the 4 corners of the box for added support. As it stands now all connections are epoxied together.
Thanks
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You may wish to reconsider a couple of things. First. By useing the poplar flat and spanning across the stringers, you're not gaining much strength. You can demonstrate this by supporting one of your strips at each end and standing in the center. The wood will flex a lot. If you encapsulate with glass and resin, you'll be creating a bit of an I beam, but still not as strong as if the wood were vertical. If I understand you correctly and you're only sealing with resin, you're adding weight but not much strength. It would actually be better to use only your Coosa on the stringer tops. That's the way your deck came supported from the factory.
As for your tank coffin, everywhere the wood supports the coffin creates a hard spot, everywhere else soft. This creates stress points that will fail. It would be better to run your support along the length of the stringers. It would be better to run full length supports along the stringers.
Poplar may not be the best material either. It's heavy and not particularly rot resistant. Useing it takes away the benefit of coosa as a deck. The poplar will rot before the coosa, especially if you're only coating it with resin. Given your goal of running the boat for only a few years, you may be better going with marine ply for the deck. It's much cheaper, and plenty strong.
You've got a great start, but this may be a case where it's better not to reinvent the wheel.
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Thank you for the feedback. My issue was getting the factory coffin box back to the height i wanted while trying to keep some tab to bite too. The existing floor was complete trash. All of the connections at the perimeter tabs and coffin box have been set in thickened epoxy and screwed. I will pad up the stringers to the same level and will have structural flotation foam butting up to the deck height between the hull and the stringer. I walked on the grid last night and it was very firm even though this is not where the structure is going to come from, keep in mind i am bearing the new deck on the 3" of existing deck that remains and that will but into the coffin box lip. The load of the tank will be spread out across various points which equate to about 50lbs per point so i think it should hold. Im not sure i understand how the wood will rot if it is encased in vinyl ester including the end-grains.
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Bottom line, your build- your rules. If it were me, i'd try to support tank coffin all the way around directly to stringers.
As for water absorption and rot in the poplar. It won't happen right away, but you're placing a natural material that will expand and contract with temperature and humidity below decks. Eventually the vinylester will develop cracks, too small to even see at first, but they will allow water in. Eventually, you'll get rot. You only need to look at the varnished teak and mahogany on an older boat. Eventually it looks like crap and needs to be redone. Vinylester may not be varnish, but without glass reinforcement, its more like it than you'd think. Your coosa is a lifetime material, properly installed. Poplar, something less.
As I said your boat, your rules. Good luck with your build.
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Update:
I am going different route with my project and wanted to provide a update. I was having a hard time getting my coffin box where i needed it to be and really figuring out what i wanted to do with the floor. My plan is it encapsulate all the poplar wood in vinylester epoxy then pad up the remaining voids atop the stringers with coosa. My new coosa deck will set atop the perimeter of the existing deck affixed with thickened epoxy. This was a quicker route for me instead of building all new bulkheads/stringer replacement. Keep in mind i will run this boat for a while fishing/crabbing with the intent to buy a bigger boat in a few years down the road. Any input here? Constructive criticism is a good thing. Does anyone see an issue with the poplar holding the stock 75/80 gal tank? I will also provide 4 blocks attached to the sides of the stringers in the 4 corners of the box for added support. As it stands now all connections are epoxied together.
Thanks
You're not the first nor will you be the last to put wood back in your boat. On my first floor replacement in '98 I left a lip around the perimeter and built up the gap on the stringers with 1x4 pine glued down with construction adhesive and screws. I think I resin coated them but don't remember for sure. I used 5/8" plywood for the floor with glass on top, resin coated on the bottom (my tank was above floor at the time) and when I decided to rebuild the boat in late 2012 the pine was still like I installed it and the plywood was too except for the front 6" that was the reason for my rebuild. Bottom line is anything will work if sealed and floors fail because of the holes you drill into them without sealing the holes.
As for your rebuild, you'll need to grind up the liner sides and on top and over the lip of the tank well to tie everything together with glass. You need to tie everything together as the cap, liner sides and floor are all an integral part of the boat that make it solid.
There is no right or wrong here (well I guess there is a possibility of wrong in a rebuild, but not what I see you're doing), seal it well, tie it together well and then cover it with gelcoat or paint. It'll last a long time. If the wood does rot out in 20 years, the coosa, if laminated into the hull correctly, will hold it together.
My $.02
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Rick,
My thoughts exactly moving forward. If i had more time and if my stringers were trash i would liked to build new bulkheads and a new tank box but the stringers are dry as a bone and i really dont want to cut into my fishing time if possible. My plan is to grind the coffin box lip and perimeter liner wall so my 1708 floor glass will wrap up the side. The entire deck will be re-coated in kiwigrip. The transom is a intresting story. The core was damp but is rock solid but the two pieces of 3/4" ply are pulled away from eachother. I plan to inject some thickened epoxy down in the void then clamp and maybe runsome stainless screws along the top edge then re glass the cap. The core has had about a month at 65 degrees to dry out.
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I havent posted in a while but am making so progress. Here are some shots of my build along the way.
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Floatation foam finished and sealed. Glassing of the underside of the coosa. A 30 Year old fill hose.
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Installing the new deck pieces in place. I used thickened vinylester resin for the gaps around the perimeter. Being my first time doing any glass work the 1708 gave me a little trouble wetting out 100% but i was very happy with the results.
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You can see some of the discoloration in the 1708. I injected some resin in a few of the high spots but she is rock solid. I was able to use my coffin box lid which is now cored and re glassed. I was hoping to use the stock 80 gallon tank but found a decent amount of pitting the strap locations. I bit the bullet and have one on the way from alloy metal works in NY. I will post the dimensions of my old tank.
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Moving on with a lot of sanding and my first prime coat!
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As she stands right now. I will finish the paint this week and the floor will be done in kiwigrip wrapping 6" up the sides.
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Moving right along :thumleft:
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Bringing her home, still have minor touchup and the console to wire but i should be able to catch the tail end of striper season!
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Congrats
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Its been a long road but SHE IS FLOATING! FV MISS KAYLI