Classic AquaSport
Aquasport Model Rebuilds, Mods, Updates and Refreshes => Osprey Style Hull Rebuilds => 165/170/175 Rebuilds => Topic started by: BMAC1988 on January 31, 2016, 07:45:45 PM
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so ive been wanting and dreaming of repowering my 1995 aquasport 175 osprey from the aged and fuel hungry evinrude 88spl it came with to a Suzuki df140. i will also be adding a CMC jack plate. my biggest concern is the added weight on the transom. but im eager to see what kind of fuel economy gains as well as performance gains I will see.
I ended up making a day going around the state getting parts, its hard to find a df140 in a 20" shaft like I need, so I got a 2006 25" shaft motor for a good deal and then got a 2002 20" lower and mid section with a bunch of wiring and controls as well as 2 stainless props (a 3 blade and a 4 blade) and a set of gauges. I plan to go thru much as I can while im doing the swap and make sure its good to go. I also plan to paint it white to go with the boat a little better. the 20" lower and mid section came off a locked up motor but the lower and mid section are in what appear to be pristine condition, even the engine holder plug housing has almost zero corrosion. I would like to take the power head off the 25" shaft and put it on the 20" lower and mid section with the better condition engine holder plug.
can anybody give me some pointers on what I should check or replace (such as seals/bearings/etc.) while im doing this or what I should be on the look out for. ill try and get some more and better pics when I have time to get everything laid out
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o58/DirtyDiesel1988/Aquasport%20Pics/IMG_20160130_155406230_HDR_zps99ssj6fi.jpg) (http://s117.photobucket.com/user/DirtyDiesel1988/media/Aquasport%20Pics/IMG_20160130_155406230_HDR_zps99ssj6fi.jpg.html)
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I just saw your other post about the 115 ETEC weight question. Where in Lakeland are you? I am live off Shepard Rd.
Back to your post...I would grab a manual and use that as a guide to see what is out of spec (run out on prop shaft etc). Check the seals for damage from fishing line on the prop shaft. I would adjust the valves on the engine if needed (not sure if they do or not). Replace all fluids and call it done! Mount that sun of a gun and see how she does!
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im not very far off the north end of county line rd on swindell rd.
ive already downloaded and printed off a service manual. ive run into a bit of an interchange problem with the 02 20" lower/mid section and the 06 motor. as of now ive got everything all torn apart trying to mix and match the parts I have to make something work and limit how many new parts I have to buy (Suzuki parts are outrageously expensive). I had to remove the oil pan and engine holder assembly from the motor, which are problem areas for corrosion, in order to change over motor mounts which has been a nightmare.... first thing is to get the motor completely done and ready to mount up so then i can move onto the other things on the list that im going to do at the same time as the motor swap. ive got a few more things to buy to get everything else going- I still need to get a new actuator for my CMC jack plate and wiring for it, and a I need to get a hydraulic steering setup.
ive got the lower unit, mid section pivot block, pivot rod, and mounting brackets all painted white with Imron paint. ive got the plastics ready to paint with Dupont base coat/clear coat to match the white lower unit parts. ive always liked the white Suzuki motors and think itd look really good on my boat. im going to get some silver new style reproduction stickers for the cowls. today I got a big order from browns point marine with wiring, tach guage, key switch, water pump rebuild, and wiring harness for the motor.
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It sounds like you got it covered. You won't regret going to hyd. steering. I have baystar and its awesome! Are the parts you need available on Fleabay? I have heard that Suzuki parts are expensive and sometimes not easy to get. Let me know when you get it running or if you need a hand wrenching on something.
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thanx. yea I always check ebay for things, except for the things that need to be new like the gaskets and such. I actually just had to buy another engine holder assembly off ebay. I probably could've made mine work but with the risk of it failing and ruining my motor and the very labor intense process it takes to replace it when its all together I just decided to go ahead and get another one in better shape.
I also just ordered the final gasket I need and a couple other odds and ends that broke or were messed up on disassembly from browns point so I can put everything back together when the holder gets here. I'm thinking after everything I should have this motor completely ready to go for right at or just over 5k, which isn't too bad for a newer 4stroke motor.
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Just an update. Im still working on this, just ran into a couple snags. I ended up ordering another engine holder assembly off eBay that was in really good shape. I have all the wiring (I think/hope), gauges, controls, etc for the motor. I have a new actuator for the jack plate, along with a relay and switch. This past weekend I got the power head put back on and off the short shaft lower unit put on. Everything went together great but I messed up and ordered the wrong bolt for the engine holder, it's now on the way tho. Here in a couple weeks I'm going to be getting the old motor off the boat and start re-rigging and installing the zuki.
Anyway here's a pic of where I'm currently at.(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o58/DirtyDiesel1988/Aquasport%20Pics/IMG_20160228_144728409_HDR_zpsu2u0eegu.jpg) (http://s117.photobucket.com/user/DirtyDiesel1988/media/Aquasport%20Pics/IMG_20160228_144728409_HDR_zpsu2u0eegu.jpg.html)
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Interested to see how it goes. I'd like to repower my 175 with a heavier 4 stroke at some point.
Things gonna be a rocket.
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I hate to say this I have a bad feeling that thing is going to be rather stern heavy. My 170 with the 90HP Ocean Pro sits just right... but even with the scupper balls I get some water in the splash well.
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I'm in the same boat with my 175. Sits perfect at rest. With a person in the stern you get a little water ,two people fishing in back and you got an inch of water. That's what deck boots are for.
A couple sandbags in the bow hatch could offset the weight. When I say bow hatch I mean the hatch on the deck closest to the anchor locker. They shouldn't take up much space anyway. I think my 115 is 360 lbs and a comparable 4 stroke is like 410 if I remember. ETecs are pretty light at 390. You've got plenty of power, the extra weight bow and stern may make the boat a little more stabile cutting through chop on the plus side. Should be fine.
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I'm worried about the weight as well. I looked at all the newer FI motors and the etec was lightest at 394lbs and 115hp. This motor is 410lbs and 140hp, the same for the 120hp version. I've already contemplated adding/building a floatation box for the back to help with the weight. The additional 100lbs and a jack plate are going the make the inherit bad scupper problem worse.
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I have an Etec 90 that weighs 320 lbs. with a bobs light weight jack plate that weighs 33 lbs. My total is only 57 lbs less than your engine. I don't think you will have much of an issue. I would use the shortest jackplate and not have the weight hanging way off the the stern. I think the distance off the stern has as much effect as anything else. Also if you move the batteries to the console it can counter act most issues of stern weight. Either way your boat won't self bail. But 99% if folk say their 170 won't self bail.
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I currently have dual group 32 (I think, they're BIG) batteries under the console. The leaning post and 54qt cooler moved up closer to the console helped a little over the flip-back cooler seat. With the 88 and me at the helm I don't have water in the floor and the scuppers are at or about a half inch above the water. If I stand (185lb) at the very back the scuppers are about a half inch below the water. I've read that the Suzuki's having an off center motor and being further forward than most other Outboards instead of directly over the shaft should help offset some of the weight. I don't have the funds for another Jack plate at the moment as I got this one for free and just had to buy an actuator for it.
The way I look at it is I've got all the stuff to do it, it's pretty much my lightest route to accomplish my goals. And worse case scenario is I'll have to make a flotation box and attach it to the transom
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update: finally got the jack plate back from being anodized and am not real happy about the way it turned out but it is what it is... got the jack plate and motor hung on the boat yesterday. took a little bit of adjustment to get the motor at the right height. I wanted it to be where the old motor was at full drop on the plate. right now the bottom of the cavitation plate is within about 1/4" of the bottom of the boat depending on what the trim will be. with the jack plate all the way up the top portion of the prop is above the bottom of the boat. my only concern now, other than the boat still being able to float, is the hydraulic steering cylinder clearing the jack plate. now its down to the not so fun part of running wires/lines/hoses/etc and hooking everything up.
motor jacked all the way up
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o58/DirtyDiesel1988/Aquasport%20Pics/IMG_20160320_143432567_HDR_zpsq673uklk.jpg) (http://s117.photobucket.com/user/DirtyDiesel1988/media/Aquasport%20Pics/IMG_20160320_143432567_HDR_zpsq673uklk.jpg.html)
all the way down
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o58/DirtyDiesel1988/Aquasport%20Pics/IMG_20160320_143548110_HDR_zpsdxcin6sf.jpg) (http://s117.photobucket.com/user/DirtyDiesel1988/media/Aquasport%20Pics/IMG_20160320_143548110_HDR_zpsdxcin6sf.jpg.html)
and a good side view of everything mounted
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o58/DirtyDiesel1988/Aquasport%20Pics/Attach63251_20160320_193948_zpsihzzhxdd.jpg) (http://s117.photobucket.com/user/DirtyDiesel1988/media/Aquasport%20Pics/Attach63251_20160320_193948_zpsihzzhxdd.jpg.html)
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motor looks great! i personally raise the motor up a few holes on the jackplate so you can get the most out of it. otherwise you'll find yourself running with the jackplate half up all the time just to run at a normal cruise.
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motor is currently 2 holes up on the motor and on the top hole in the plate. the plate is at its highest mounting hole. that's what I was hoping for, have the plate all the way down to be at normal optimum motor height so all the jack plate lift is for shallower water running. at full lift almost half the prop will be above the bottom of the boat, and that's without any trim. that should be more than ample since I don't have a low water pickup on the motor. ill have to keep an eye on the water pressure gauge to make sure I'm not cooking my motor. the CMC plate I have only has 5-1/2" of lift.
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with the motor trimmed level, can you take a pic with a straight edge on the keel with the jack plate down and one all the way up?
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i can try and do that this weekend, the boat is back in the garage and I don't have any tools at home to make the actuators work. you can put a straight edge on the screen on the pics I posted and see about where the plate is in relation to the keel, the motor is level in those pics. its hard to guess where the boat rides on a plane though and without knowing where that is exactly its hard to say for sure where the motor will be oriented.
hopefully I can get some of the wiring hooked up this weekend. still debating on what I want to do about the console/binnacle, the hole cutout for the Rude binnacle is almost double to size of the Zuki one. I wish I could convert the old binnacle to be used on the new motor.
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I got some wiring done today, not much as I would've liked but some stuff cleaned up a little and ran to the console. fuel line is hooked up, motor is powered to the boat batteries, motor wiring harness ran to the console, and the tach is installed and plugged into the factory harness.
got the pics of the bottom of the cavitation plate to the keel with a level, the top of the level is flush with the bottom of the cavitation plate and the motor is sitting level as I could guess where itll sit with the boat on plane.
all the way down
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o58/DirtyDiesel1988/Aquasport%20Pics/IMG_20160326_102431310_zps2pujrrtt.jpg) (http://s117.photobucket.com/user/DirtyDiesel1988/media/Aquasport%20Pics/IMG_20160326_102431310_zps2pujrrtt.jpg.html)
all the way up
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o58/DirtyDiesel1988/Aquasport%20Pics/IMG_20160326_102525690_zpstlsctbfv.jpg) (http://s117.photobucket.com/user/DirtyDiesel1988/media/Aquasport%20Pics/IMG_20160326_102525690_zpstlsctbfv.jpg.html)
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judging by the pic, i'd go up 2 holes, which should be an inch for every inch you go back on setback, you can go up to 1/4 inch up. with your jp down the cavitation plate is at a level comparable to the motor being mounted from the factory with no jp. with a 6 inch setback you can go up 1-1/2 inch
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I was going to run it like this first since this put it back at stock height, near-about. During initial testing I can go up a little at a time to see how it performs. I wanna have the motor sit high as I can get away with with the jack plate all the way down right?
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Yes, that way you have the most useable travel out of the jp. When running on plane, you want to be able to see the cavitation plate.
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Finally got everything hooked up and I think ready to go for the first trial run. Trying to get out tomorrow to a local Lake and run around for a bit. I've got to get time to get to a place in clearwater and get a replacement steering bleeder tee fitting that I broke off. FYI hydraulic steering, narrow splashwell, Jack plate, and a motor that is capable of tilting up really far will break off the fittings for the steering.
This thing purrs like a kitten and runs like a champ. It's unreal how quiet it is out of the wate, i bet its next to silent in the water. Anyway here's a little picture I took of it. Got a set of custom stickers made for it and they should be here today.
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o58/DirtyDiesel1988/Aquasport%20Pics/Snapchat-5440677496251129602_zpshsttsh1h.jpg) (http://s117.photobucket.com/user/DirtyDiesel1988/media/Aquasport%20Pics/Snapchat-5440677496251129602_zpshsttsh1h.jpg.html)
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Thanks for the heads up on the tilt/tee problem. I replaced both of my Tees, I forget where I ordered mine online - maybe Teleflex (I think they own Seastar)
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You are correct that teleflex owns them now. What's weird is not a single place that I called had the replacements in Stock but everybody said that they are common to break. I had to go to a warehouse to get them. Also for whatever reason, there's multiple different ones, specifically differences in the regular seastar and the seastar-baystar.
I'm anxious to get it out on the water and get some performance numbers tomorrow
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Got out on the lake Saturday and put a solid 5hr on the new setup. Overall I am happy with it. I was a bit disappointed at the top speed not being very high but think there could be a tad more to be gained from a better prop, maybe it's just wishful thinking.
I started out with a powertech 4blade prop and was amazed at the up on plane ability, it seemed to have a "power band" from 3k-4k rpm that would pin you back however top speed was a whimsy 38mph and best mpg I could find was 5 at around 4k. The 3 blade no name prop I had had considerable more top end and economy once I figured out the correct trim/height on the jack plate. Both props had considerable porpoising which I believe is mainly due to the added weight and setback of the motor. Speaking of, the weight was very noticeable and water does sit in the back while I'm at the helm with a full tank of fuel, having passengers on the front seemed to really help with that and the porpoising. With just me in the boat and the 3 blade prop I managed 42mph at 6100rpm and bumped 6mpg at 4k rpm cruising at 28mph after considerable adjustment of trim, Jack plate, and trim tabs, again porpoising was a big problem. The boat never seemed to be over powered and was very stable even in a very tight corner.
Here's a little table I made with some performance numbers. Keep in mind this was early in the day before the experimenting with motor adjustments. (http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o58/DirtyDiesel1988/Aquasport%20Pics/Screenshot_2016-06-14-16-41-05_zps26vdidoo.png) (http://s117.photobucket.com/user/DirtyDiesel1988/media/Aquasport%20Pics/Screenshot_2016-06-14-16-41-05_zps26vdidoo.png.html)
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I think this confirms that certain hull designs are only going to go just so fast. The faster you try to go the drag from the air increases by the square and I would assume the water drag will be even higher. Aquasport hulls are designed for a particular aplication and going fast just isn't one of them....
Oh and...
:PicsNeeded:
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Good to hear that it ran good for you. That top speed does seem a little low. But then again you do have some extra weight compared to before and you have a T-Top. What kind of speed were you getting with the old john/rude 90hp? I think you could get more speed out of it with a fast three blade. But my guess is that your four blade will give the best overall performance. My 170 had a tendency to porpoise as well. I added a set of wedges and it did help.
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My 170 with the 90 Ocean pro will porpoise a bit too. Not sure if it is from the jack plate or the dolfin.
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I've got a 14x21 mercruiser 3blade prop that I was going to try but it lightly rubbed on the gear case and I didn't want to risk damaging something. A guy in Sarasota at Propgods recommended a powertech prx4 prop which id really like to try but that's an expensive "try". I wish I knew what the specs where on this 3blade prop but there isn't a number to be found anywhere on it.
I was getting 33-35 with the 88 but it seemed it had lost some power thru the years and the T top definitely didn't help.
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I have a Power Tech 4 blade I'd sell. Not sure if its the correct pitch for your set up but it is a stern lifting prop and will prevent porpoising, SFS4R19P. You would also need to re-hub it for the Suzuki, hub available from Power tech. Let me know if your are interested in trying it out.
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That prop looks identical to the 4 blade that I have. The prx4 is a more aggressive looking prop
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(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o58/DirtyDiesel1988/Aquasport%20Pics/IMG_20160619_082342914_HDR_zps936qohht.jpg) (http://s117.photobucket.com/user/DirtyDiesel1988/media/Aquasport%20Pics/IMG_20160619_082342914_HDR_zps936qohht.jpg.html)
Got a good pic of 'er sitting in the water, full of fuel and full cooler under the leaning post. Ran awesome all day long with me and 2 other adults and associated crap and was getting just over 5mpg.
Been having an issue with the reversing relay for the jackplate...... The switch input leads keep loosing contact inside the relay and it stops working, I can move/hot-wire it to make it work but need to find a better solution. I think the vibration from being mounted directly on the motor is breaking the connection loose
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Looks great. :thumleft:
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As a reference, I top out at 36 mph with an Etec 90 on my 175 with a 3 blade aluminum prop. I think you should be able to do better.
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What RPMS are you getting at WOT and what size and pitch prop are you running? I can get 38 MPH out of my 170 with a 90hp Ocean Pro. I know a little more pitch would give me more top end If I wanted it.
It is very critical for the Etec to be propped right. If you are over propped you will have problems with high exhaust temperatures and carbon build up.
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I don't want to hijack his thread but I can hit 5k. The max rpm in the emm is like 5200. I suspect I could be slightly over propped but not a lot. 4500 to 5500 is recommended. My speed is GPS and would be effected by currents which can be strong where I go sometimes.
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Great looking boat! :salut2:
//Lars
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Basketcase... the optimum rpm range for the I3 90 is 5000-5200 rpm. The max wot rpm range is 5500. You could use 200 more rpm.
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(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o58/DirtyDiesel1988/Aquasport%20Pics/IMG_20160619_082342914_HDR_zps936qohht.jpg) (http://s117.photobucket.com/user/DirtyDiesel1988/media/Aquasport%20Pics/IMG_20160619_082342914_HDR_zps936qohht.jpg.html)
Got a good pic of 'er sitting in the water, full of fuel and full cooler under the leaning post. Ran awesome all day long with me and 2 other adults and associated crap and was getting just over 5mpg.
Been having an issue with the reversing relay for the jackplate...... The switch input leads keep loosing contact inside the relay and it stops working, I can move/hot-wire it to make it work but need to find a better solution. I think the vibration from being mounted directly on the motor is breaking the connection loose
Looks great indeed. How does she sit in the water?
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(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o58/DirtyDiesel1988/Aquasport%20Pics/IMG_20160619_082342914_HDR_zps936qohht.jpg) (http://s117.photobucket.com/user/DirtyDiesel1988/media/Aquasport%20Pics/IMG_20160619_082342914_HDR_zps936qohht.jpg.html)
Got a good pic of 'er sitting in the water, full of fuel and full cooler under the leaning post. Ran awesome all day long with me and 2 other adults and associated crap and was getting just over 5mpg.
Been having an issue with the reversing relay for the jackplate...... The switch input leads keep loosing contact inside the relay and it stops working, I can move/hot-wire it to make it work but need to find a better solution. I think the vibration from being mounted directly on the motor is breaking the connection loose
Looks great indeed. How does she sit in the water?
1st I would like to apologize for reviving an old thread as I have not been on here in a while. Also thank you for the compliments
As far as sitting in the water is is undoubtedly stern heavy given the additional weight of the 4stroke along with a jack plate. The scuppers are just in the water at rest with me (210lbs) at the helm full of fuel and a 54qt igloo cooler under the leaning post filled. Boat is much happier with a loaded fishbox up front. I have left the boat docked overnight and while I was nervous, all was well. I just moved the cooler from the leaning post to the front casting deck allowing the scuppers to do their job out of the water. I would say the most worrisome point is unloading off the trailer. If the boat is backed in too fast or an excessively steep ramp, water will come over the back right as its floating off the trailer.
I have been kicking around the idea of adding a trolling motor to the front but have been torn on how and where to mount batteries. I haven't pulled the trigger but I had the idea of putting batteries under the casting deck with a hatch cut into the deck. Furthermore adding a compartment over the front deck just in front of the fishbox and flush with the top of the gunnels making a flush casting deck across the front while also providing an additional storage compartment up front. This would absolutely add weight to the front offsetting the engine weight. Thoughts from some more people would be much appreciated