Classic AquaSport
General Aquasport Forums => Aquasport Discussion => Topic started by: Stocksail on May 12, 2014, 10:55:54 AM
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Hi all, I am new to classic aquasports ( though my dad did have an 80's 20' WA I fished on a lot) I am looking at a 1987 222 and want some valuation input.
Owner states he is second owner, boat looks very well cared for. (Even the wood trim looks oiled) All original condition but with an '05 tandem axle alum. Trailer, '05 zuke 140 4-stk completely rebuilt ( owner states run it runs perfect), hydraulic steering with new steering rod and helm, dual battery setup, stereo, wired for Garmin 540 though not included, replaced gas tank 3 years ago and had boat inspected for rot etc. owner states no soft spots anywhere. Also includes Bimini, spray dodger and full cover. I think that covers it.
So what do you think, what other info do you need to asses a value. I have an agreement to pick up the boat this weekend though haven't made a firm offer yet.
Thanks,
-Greg
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$8500 tops. $3K for the motor, $1500 for the trailer, that leaves $4K for the boat...
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Agree. Seven would be better. When you inspect her, spend some time checking the deck around the console, especially where you stand.
How much are they asking?
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My bet is somewhere in the deck or elsewhere is some wet wood.
Bob is pretty close on the price as well. One question why was that motor rebuilt? Those seem like pretty rock solid engines.
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Thanks for the quick replies guys.
He is asking $11k. He had it listed for more...
Those Zuke 140 4-Stk motors on eBay are going for about $6k from what I found. I can't find a nice aluminum trailer for less than $2500, so I figured $2k for the hull was within a relevant range if it is solid and he had the gas tank done.
About the motor. From what I gathered, his other one was stolen and he couldn't afford a new one so he found a blown one, he said he had new crank,rods,pistons everything rebuilt from a shop and it runs quiet and smooth. I plan on running it down to a shop to have a leak down test done.
The only other 222 I've seen listed was for $6500' had an old two stroke and soft floor....
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Greg, where are you located?
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Jacksonville, FL
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Jacksonville, FL
Hmmm....from the asking price you stated, I would have figured in the northeast. I'll stick with my $8500 OBO, if he wants to stay at $11K, I think you'll see it pop back up locally and on J'ville CL for $9K in the near future...
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My problem is the boat is 4 hrs south so I have to make the trek to see it.
Thanks again guys, trying my best to get a classic!
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My problem is the boat is 4 hrs south so I have to make the trek to see it.
Thanks again guys, trying my best to get a classic!
So, like...Palm Beach? Maybe Lauderdale? Got a CL link for it?
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http://tampa.craigslist.org/pnl/boa/4383431437.html (http://tampa.craigslist.org/pnl/boa/4383431437.html)
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Oh, right here in St. Pete.
$11K? I don't think so. If it was an Owens & Sons or a Rolls trailer, I'd give him some credit...but it's a Continental. $8500 OBO stands. Matter of fact, I'd come down to 8, maybe 7.5...
Keep in mind, the Zuke is pushing 10 years old now, re-build or not...
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The local guys will be happy to check it out for you.
Wave 7K green in front of his nose...you'll have a new boat :thumright:
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Well I'll be down there this Saturday if someone wants to volunteer their time. I'd gladly repay with beer or coffee if that's valid currency here.
I do want to add that I don't mind adding a bit of premium for the boat being set up and ready to go. I'm sure I could wait around and piece together a hull, have it rebuilt, stalk a motor and trailer, get it all rigged etc but that's all time off the water.
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Just looked at the map, that's down in the Gulfport area. Aaron would be the best bet to check it out as that's pretty much a straight shot due west from the marina. Problem is, what's between the marina and Gulfport is basically St. Pete's version of Liberty City... :shock:
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i went to middle school in liberty city. probably the worst time of my life lol.
ill give the guy credit for keeping it clean but it will never be an $11k boat the way it sits. ever. at least down here. there are so many boats out there for sale man. $11k in an aquasport should get you closer to a 1997+ year model boat.
http://miami.craigslist.org/mdc/boa/4463359427.html (http://miami.craigslist.org/mdc/boa/4463359427.html)
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I'll be honest with ya Greg, if you really want to come down and look at the boat. I'd go past downtown St. Pete all the way to the Pinellas Bayway, over to St. Pete Beach, and back up to Pasedena. S. St. Pete just isn't a real nice part of town...
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to add to bobs point. dont drive that far to look at just one boat. get 3-4 lined up to look at the same day. dont set yourself up for disappointment and an 8 hours driving day unless you are serious and hope he will take way way less than $11k.
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to add to bobs point. dont drive that far to look at just one boat. get 3-4 lined up to look at the same day. dont set yourself up for disappointment and an 8 hours driving day unless you are serious and hope he will take way way less than $11k.
^^^^
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However, could combine the trip with an overnight on St. Pete Beach...that would be nice... :salut:
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Thanks for the driving tips guys. I will route my gps accordingly! Sadly I was just down in siesta key last weekend but didn't find the boat online until the day I got back. I could have swung by then :shock:
Anyways, I'm hoping he will take a fair amount less but honesty I have been having a heck of a time finding anything clean in that price range. Have you looked on boat trader lately? Depressing. Anyway, this hull form along with the Aeon,dorado,gausse etc is my favorite shape so I want to get into something similar.
Good advice on finding a few to look at; ill search tonight.
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Good looker here for $2900 (betcha he'd take $2400)...http://tampa.craigslist.org/hil/boa/4455980222.html (http://tampa.craigslist.org/hil/boa/4455980222.html)
$4K in a Yam 150 HPDI and rigging and you'd be good to go!
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That seems like a good deal but you guys have to remember I'm a novice at putting a boat together whereas most of you appear to have put at least a few together or do it professionally. I see that boat and think... Motor, rigging, paint, all new wiring, batteries, new hydraulic helm, bilge pumps, electronics, trailer work, Bimini, and all the small stuff that adds up quick. I'm not sure I'm up to the task just yet. :shock:
I talked to this guy a while back http://spacecoast.craigslist.org/boa/4369990234.html (http://spacecoast.craigslist.org/boa/4369990234.html)
He said the floor was soft in front of the console, galv. trailer and I've heard mixed reviews on that year Merc. Not knocking the boat just saying it was a comparison point.
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I think when it comes to Mercs of that vintage, you may be referring to Optibombs. That Bluewater is a straight carbed motor, excellent motor...
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I was thinking of the optimax. Do you think the ask is fair then?
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$5500 w/o the Lowrance...$5K cash in the pocket, offer $4200...yep, I think it's fair...
Not to mention he's in Mims, a WHOLE lot closer to you... :thumright:
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I'll call him tomorrow to see if he still has it.
What do I do about the soft spot(s)?
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Not sure if you want something this big but this looks interesting to me. 1990 222 CCP maybe? It looks like one, twin 115s.
http://www.boattrader.com/listing/1990- ... -102138364 (http://www.boattrader.com/listing/1990-Aquasport-222-102138364)
I just can't see the value where the 87 222 you posted earlier lies. I can tell from the pics you will need to put a serious buffing job on it. The gray on those hulls chalks up really bad and can be difficult to keep looking good. I still believe that somewhere there is wet wood.
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1990 222 CCP maybe? It looks like one, twin 115s.
Left over Hialeah hull listed as a 90 I'd guess. Love to see the HIN. Like the 1990 Striper we've been talking about.
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(http://images2.boattrader.com/resize/1/71/66/4517166_20131119072328725_1_LARGE.jpg?w=640&h=480&t=1166446)
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(http://images7.boattrader.com/resize/1/71/66/4517166_20131119072221859_1_LARGE.jpg?w=640&h=480&t=1166446)
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Not exactly what you're looking for...but this is an excellent example of a market-aware, motivated seller. Quality product priced to sell, no BS, no false expectations.
Love the twin 115 Mercs on a 222 CCP.
Fellas....how far shall we ride this morning? :wink:
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thats a nice CCP. clean, good price, newer trailer.
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Not exactly what you're looking for...but this is an excellent example of a market-aware, motivated seller. Quality product priced to sell, no BS, no false expectations.
Love the twin 115 Mercs on a 222 CCP.
Fellas....how far shall we ride this morning? :wink:
i agree. looks like a nice boat. i would really prefer a four stroke. wonder what that boat drafts? looks deeper than the older hull design.
thanks for looking around for me guys, i spent last night on CL and boattrader and really wasn't finding any gems.
Any chance one of you guys want to sell me your boat? :P
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wonder what that boat drafts? looks deeper than the older hull design.
Factory built, they were advertised at 12" for a 222 CCP.
http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery ... -8&cat=574 (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=2863&title=as-all-models-86-8&cat=574)
That might have been without a motor but......
My 84 with a 26" full bracket/200hp Evinrude measured about 18" in still water, motor untrimmed.
The beauty of the CCP hull (besides the look) is that it had the ability to get in much skinnier water than it should have. No it isn't a 170 Osprey or even in the same league as a Flatback but it would surprise many people who would think otherwise.
Remember, it may be advertised as a 1990 model (and it probably is) it's the same hull design as was around in the 80s.
Good luck.
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wonder what that boat drafts? looks deeper than the older hull design.
Factory built, they were advertised at 12" for a 222 CCP.
http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery ... -8&cat=574 (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=2863&title=as-all-models-86-8&cat=574)
That might have been without a motor but......
My 84 with a 26" full bracket/200hp Evinrude measured about 18" in still water, motor untrimmed.
The beauty of the CCP hull (besides the look) is that it had the ability to get in much skinnier water than it should have. No it isn't a 170 Osprey or even in the same league as a Flatback but it would surprise many people who would think otherwise.
Remember, it may be advertised as a 1990 model (and it probably is) it's the same hull design as was around in the 80s.
Good luck.
Same hull Bob. :thumleft: Trim the motor(s) up and you can go skinny with a CCP. I take mine in some pretty shallow areas - as some folks around here know... :fish:
I think those twin Mercury 115s are the 2+2 type 4 cylinder motors if they are original 1990 models. It ran on 2 cylinders at idle, then the other 2 came on when the throttle was advanced. Some folks loved the 2+2 design - some not so much... :roll: They have a reputation of being hard to get the carbs adjusted just right. I agree with Gran - a 22 foot CCP with twin 115s is an almost ideal setup! :thumleft:
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Talked to the owner of my original post tonight. He is going to email me the last ECM log from regular service interval on the zuke 4 stk and get the motor leak down tested with a fully documented work up before I get there Sat. Tomorrow I am making a few calls to line up looking at other boats just in case a deal can't be made on this one. We'll see how he reacts to the offer you guys suggested.
Hopefully I'll be a classic owner this weekend!
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wonder what that boat drafts? looks deeper than the older hull design.
Factory built, they were advertised at 12" for a 222 CCP.
http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery ... -8&cat=574 (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=2863&title=as-all-models-86-8&cat=574)
That might have been without a motor but......
My 84 with a 26" full bracket/200hp Evinrude measured about 18" in still water, motor untrimmed.
The beauty of the CCP hull (besides the look) is that it had the ability to get in much skinnier water than it should have. No it isn't a 170 Osprey or even in the same league as a Flatback but it would surprise many people who would think otherwise.
Remember, it may be advertised as a 1990 model (and it probably is) it's the same hull design as was around in the 80s.
Good luck.
Same hull Bob. :thumleft: Trim the motor(s) up and you can go skinny with a CCP. I take mine in some pretty shallow areas - as some folks around here know... :fish:
I think those twin Mercury 115s are the 2+2 type 4 cylinder motors if they are original 1990 models. It ran on 2 cylinders at idle, then the other 2 came on when the throttle was advanced. Some folks loved the 2+2 design - some not so much... :roll: They have a reputation of being hard to get the carbs adjusted just right. I agree with Gran - a 22 foot CCP with twin 115s is an almost ideal setup! :thumleft:
I can chat all day about the pros and cons of the 2+2 design since I too, have a mating pair of 1995 115's on my 22-2. But I will wait on standby and not muddy up the intent of the original post!
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here is an option. dont know what the real value is since details aren't in the description but a nice trailer, obviously redone transom. dont know about floor, foam or stringers. might be worth a call. wish it had a bigger motor. 150 would be perfect for it.
http://miami.craigslist.org/pbc/boa/4470901400.html (http://miami.craigslist.org/pbc/boa/4470901400.html)
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So I got the leak done test results today. They are as follows ? This is on a 2006 Suzuki 140 4 stk
Cylinder pressure
#1 185
#2 185
#3 190
#4 190
Leak down
#1 32%
#2 33%
#3 32%
#4 28%
Tech states motor was brought up to operating temp, gear oil was clean.
This engine is at 290hrs. Had a total rebuild due to oil pump failure at 260hrs.
What say you?
Thanks Jason for finding that listing. I might have seen that one but it looked like a lot of custom work that may be questionable. Is it worth a look?
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I'm not that far from Gulfport. I just read this thread otherwise I would have chimed in sooner.
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So I got the leak done test results today. They are as follows ? This is on a 2006 Suzuki 140 4 stk
Cylinder pressure
#1 185
#2 185
#3 190
#4 190
Leak down
#1 32%
#2 33%
#3 32%
#4 28%
Looks a little funky to me. Valve seats, rings, scored cylinders?????
A few more places to leak air on a 4 stroke. I would be more inclined to think scored walls on a two stroke but.....
Hopefully the piston heads will speak.
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seems like a lot of leak down.
that boat i posted - if the work was done right, its a hell of a boat. cant really tell from the pics. and you'll love the tower.
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One thing I noticed was on the printout of the test it had ranges and said 10-40% was good. 40-70% fair and poor after that. That does not seem to be the consensus I am finding on the internet.
Motor just got rebuilt 30 hrs ago so I would expect all that is fine..... Is there a chance the tech had an air leak in his gauge or something?
Jason, I agree it looks nice and I do want a tower... Of course it had to be on the opposite coast of the other boats :roll: those boats redone like that usually go for a lot more money than he is asking... Wonder why?
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rebuilt doesnt always mean good. i hate rebuilt motors unless i know who did it. it all depends on who did the work and quality of parts used. ive seen "rebuilt" motors full of old used part in eh condition. then again, i live too close to miami.
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Dang.
Well I emailed the owner back and let him know that 30% was troublesome and asked if he had a conversation with the tech about it? Might be the same guy that rebuilt it. I kinda feel like the bearer of bad news. :cry:
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yee old interwebs is saying 15% or less is whats acceptable. you also need to wonder if he did it right. if tdc wasnt found properly and he just rotates 180 deg from there, then all cylinders will show high leak down. there are a few factors to this. if it wasnt a dealer, I would have a suzuki dealer do the tests or have someone here who is more knowledgeable check it out.
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i will say, seems like a well cared for, clean boat. even the teak looks decent. little elbow grease ont he gelcoat and she will shine up. but really isnt worth more than $8500. maybe $9k if you HAVE to have it. figure motor is worth what, $3-4k, imo. if the leakdown really is bad, walk away. trailer with worth $12-1400 if and only if it doesnt need springs, hubs, tires, etc. thats $5400 on the high side. i wouldnt pay more than $2000 for the hull myself. thats $7400 on the high side. this is just my opinion though.
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Thanks Jason, it does look like a very clean boat. The owner came back and said he talked to the tech and tech starts his gauge at the green line on the gauge, not 0. Even sent me a pic. so it appears he isn't calibrating it.... Not sure why. I'm still going down there, probably shouldn't, but If we do a sea trial and everything is perfect I'll probably make an offer.
It's either a complete scam, a square deal, or somewhere in between.
Either way, my offer will reflect the risk of the motor possibly being a spare anchor.
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here is an option. dont know what the real value is since details aren't in the description but a nice trailer, obviously redone transom. dont know about floor, foam or stringers. might be worth a call. wish it had a bigger motor. 150 would be perfect for it.
http://miami.craigslist.org/pbc/boa/4470901400.html (http://miami.craigslist.org/pbc/boa/4470901400.html)
Called on this listing today. The guy was nice and upfront about a few issues. He said the guy before him did the work and put a new floor and transom in in but didn't do the stringers and they are delaminated. Also said the spray rail is coming off so that needs re-glassed. Also said the previous owner put in a plastic gas tank and it's gunked up so the boat is currently run on a portable tank. Also the pump for the engine bracket is broken. He said otherwise he has a good bit of money in the tower and electronics, motor runs good and is somewhat flexible on the price.
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forget that one then. floor needs to come back off again to fix the stringers.
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Ok I'm here looking at the boat from my original post. Should have got one of you guys numbers.
Boat is clean. But not as clean as I want. #1 issue, about a 12" length of delamination on the port stringer visible from the inspection plate in the rear. Starboard side is good. Could be more but can't see it. Bilge did look clean otherwise, no films or oil residue. Keel in the bow area is missing glass from the usual sandbarring. Some spider cracks in the floor though floor is solid. Hatches are solid. Stood on the skeg plate and jumped around, transom had almost zero flex. Motor is 25" shaft :( so it's not sitting on the plate it's meant to. Seastar helm and ram are new. New alum gas tank. Trailer is clean....
So with that new info, what's it worth? Or we're you guys in your infinite wisdom already figuring it would be this way hence the $7500 offer recommendation.
Thanks, Greg
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stringer delamination just tanked the value in my book. walk away. dont rush on buying a boat. now is the worst time to buy anyway. prices go up in summer, down in winter.
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stringer delamination just tanked the value in my book. walk away. dont rush on buying a boat. now is the worst time to buy anyway. prices go up in summer, down in winter.
Thanks Jason. He wouldn't budge below $9k and my offer was well below that. Driving away as we speak. :(
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thats how it goes. drove all over the state looking at different yukons denalis a few month ago. i was being very specific with that i wanted. with the age of the ones i was looking at 2004-2006 (i really prefer that body style), they were mostly trashed. finally found one that was perfect after a few months.
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Absolutely, you did the right thing and walked away. Boats are like trains....there's another one along every ten minutes.
If you're cool with a road trip, we'll find you one up here. Two Florida members have bought here and are happy as clams :thumright:
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I'm always down for a road trip. at this point I'm open to everything from a bare hull to a running original.
Thanks again for everyone's help and input. Gave me the info I needed to make the right decision here.
The search continues.
saw this today.... have seen other pics from another listing earlier... does have new trailer but its single axle... looks a bit small for the boat.
http://tampa.craigslist.org/hil/boa/4464233259.html (http://tampa.craigslist.org/hil/boa/4464233259.html)
same boat http://tampa.craigslist.org/hil/boa/4453635379.html (http://tampa.craigslist.org/hil/boa/4453635379.html)
or this one? http://sarasota.craigslist.org/boa/4441819313.html (http://sarasota.craigslist.org/boa/4441819313.html)
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Just looked at the map, that's down in the Gulfport area. Aaron would be the best bet to check it out as that's pretty much a straight shot due west from the marina. Problem is, what's between the marina and Gulfport is basically St. Pete's version of Liberty City... :shock:
Wow, really. I grew up in St. Pete. Actually got banned for life (court ordered) from Gulfport in 1981. That area used to be so nice too.