Classic AquaSport
Aquasport Model Rebuilds, Mods, Updates and Refreshes => Osprey Style Hull Rebuilds => Flatback 22-2 Rebuilds => Topic started by: Shine on July 11, 2006, 09:38:17 AM
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Hello All,
We were finally able to get the hull we bought on E-Bay last month. Its going to be a complete gut job, nothing but the hull shell will be reused. The boat was “rebuilt” once before using a bunch of cheap wood, polyester, and mat.
Demolition begins this weekend. :?
We have not decided if it will be rebuilt all composite or if we will use marineply and epoxy. It more depends if we are going to keep the boat to use ourselves. If we are going to keep it, we will use wood.
I will be sure to post pictures of the progress.
Joel
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Here are a couple pictures....
Admin Edit: The links are no longer good. For complete process pictures here is a link to Joel's site: http://forums.bateau2.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=11294 (http://forums.bateau2.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=11294)
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Going to leave the spray rails?
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not sure. We will take them off to fair the hull, but I might re-shape them and put them back on. Is one of the things I hope to get some opinions on here.
I think we are going to go all composite. Foamcore and nidacore mostly. This should result in the boat loosing AT LEAST 300 pounds, closer to 500 with how it is now (water-logged wood). Does anyone have a rough estimate on the PPI for this hull? I am hoping we can lower the sole a little.
Joel
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Be careful lowering the floor/sole. They don't self bail all that great to begin with. Lowering the floor aint gonna help. I would raise it an inch, personally. Use those "float ball" scuppers.
I would also leave the spray rails (or replace them) they are helpful, as the boat can get wet in a chop.
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Shine,
Y'all are gonna love that boat so much, Jacques will be dying to design something like it!! He will be unable to contain himself. :D :D
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A C23 could be down the line, who knows.
The rails will come off for the hull fairing, but Im thinking new one will go on before we are finished.
I have some free time this weekend to really tear into her, so I will post more pictures then.
I doubt I will put in a forward casting deck, just extend the sole all the way up. The cap is not worth keeping, so we get to customize a new cap :?
The transom is completely delaminated, so bad that the outside skin is going to have to come out. :? :?
Joel
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Really?!?!? No way to salvage that outer skin? Even with a major "clamp up?
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Not as is. Its pretty nasty. I think we will rebuild the outer skin from the inside, if that makes sense. Take out inside skin, take out core, then grind back almost all what left of the outside skin. Then lay in new Biax glass on what remains of the outside skin. Then fair the outside down until we reach our new glass.
This should be less work than cutting the transom out completely and making a mold.
I will feel a lot better about strength of the transom also
Joel
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That works. I rebuilt from the inside and built a full (enclosed) transom. I ground off the gelcoat and started to fair. WOW was it a bitch. took for ever and still wasn't perfect. There had to be a better way. I just didn't know it.
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More pre-op pictures....
Note the one of the transom, you can see how uneven it is. You can press in maybe 1/8" with light finger pressure in some areas :shock:
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_july12%20001.jpg)
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_july12%20002.jpg)
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_july12%20003.jpg)
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_july12%20004.jpg)
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That has definatly been worked on. The boxes in the back aren't original neither is that "well" (I don't think). The console is not original either, and the casting deck is already gone.
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oh yeah, its "what not to do" tutorial :D
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Can't wait to see the jungle rot when you unbutton the transom. The cap back there looks like a ferrocement trowel job.
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Geez.... I am feeling better and better about the shape my hull was in when I acquired it!! :shock:
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I don’t think it could be in worse shape. It sort of makes me happy that its this bad – everything comes up easy.
A few funny thing I found yesterday…..
Vent tube on gas tank was broken off
Gas tank was not secured in anyway below deck – no foam, no straps
2x4’s and deck screws were the choice materials for the deck “framing”
Sole was ¾” exterior. When I pulled up the fiberglass (just matt and polyester) it was completely delaminated from the wood. You can peel the glass of the sole like peeling an Orange, maybe easier.
Good news: the only thing other than the hull shell that is sound are the 2 main stringers – they are actually quite solid.
More pictures……….
Joel
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_july13%20001.jpg)
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_july13%20002.jpg)
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/july13%20003.jpg)
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_july13%20004.jpg)
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_july13%20005.jpg)
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_july13%20007.jpg)
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Wow!! Way to put that sawzall to some good use. That thing ain't pretty. :shock:
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A little further along with the demo. A few things to share:
The stringers (not original) were laminated o the bottom with what looks like 18 oz roving. In several places it was possible to peel the glass back – see one of the below pictures. The secondary bond of the stringers to the hull was very poor. Also, the glass had separated from the stringer wood in all but a few spots.
We are going to take extra precaution to ensure the shape of the hull doesn’t change before we get new stringers and frames installed. Similar to pulling a brand new hull from a mold, unless there is some structure in the hull, it could “oil can”. The next step is to build a cradle to support the shell and keep her strait and fair. While it looks fine now, a little extra work in building the cradle is worth the peace of mind; especially when you plan to put a lot of work and money into the boat.
The previous “rebuild” included a bunch of mat laid into the bottom. All this mat and the remaining roving from the stringers (which did not peel off ) will be ground out. New heavy biaxial cloth (1708 or 1808) will be laid into the hull using epoxy resin. This will reinforce an almost 30 year old skin as well as give us a very good base/foundation for the new stringers and frames
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_july17%20001.jpg)
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_july17%20005.jpg)
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_july17%20003.jpg)
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What kind of cradle do you plan to build? I am going to be redoing my stringers and I am interested in how many support points you plan to use.
Also, is the extra biaxial really necessary on the inside of the hull? I too had considered laying in a few extra layers of glass before the new stringers, but was unsure how much benefit it would be.
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cradle will be like trailer bunks but further out - right on the chine. There will also be 2 on either side of the keel. We will build it this week, so I will post pictures. It may not need a cradle, but better safe than sorry.
As for the extra glass: Polyester based FRP fatigues quickly and looses much of its strength over time (more specifically cycles of stress). The reason we will go ahead and lay it down is because I dont know if its necessary. Its "probably" not necessary - but I once its down, all doubt is removed :D
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more pictures....
After measuring diagonals from chine to shear to make sure the hull was square, we made a mold for the new transom. The clamps you see are temp. used to hold it while it si screwed all around. Its basically a dam for the new outside skin. The dam is made from Melanine which is secured to a lip of original fiberglass left around the transom. The melanine is coated with mold release wax. Some small fillets of epoxy/woodflour are laid in followed by a layer of 6 oz cloth. This acts more like a skin coat and also makes a smoother surface for the 1708 Biaxial cloth.
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_july25%20001.jpg)
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_july25%20002.jpg)
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_july25%20003.jpg)
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_july25%20007.jpg)
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_july25%20009.jpg)
A cardboard template of the inside transom is useful for cutting the 1708 to fit, and will later be used to cut the 2” foam core. The 1708 is cut to fit and laminated into the “mold”. Layers overlap 4” progressively. First layer goes 4” up sides and bottom, second goes up 8” and third (not in yet) will go up 12”.
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_july25%20004.jpg)
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_july25%20005.jpg)
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_july25%20011.jpg)
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_july25%20013.jpg)
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_july25%20015.jpg)
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_july25%20019.jpg)
Next I have one more layer for outside skin, then the core is bedded in, then inside skin.
When the transom is complete, we will rest the hull on a cradle the will support at the chine and keel – then we put in the new stringers.
Joel
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Two questions:
1) What is the difference between the green glass and the brown glass in your hull? I ran into the same thing with mine, and I had to grind away a LOT of glass to get to the brown. I ended up doing some secondary bonds to the green... and I am hoping that is not a problem. :?
2) What are the 2x4s across the gunnels/cap for? I assume it is to keep the hull from "spreading" while the transom is off?
Thanks.
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The 2x4’s are there to keep the hull from getting a twist while the transom is out. Later they will keep the hull from opening up, I will most likely replace them with a few cargo straps. Once there are a few frames in the hull, its safe to take them off.
The colors are not indicative of whats really happening. I am not good with photoshop, I tried to get the resolution so you could see the glass better, but it changes the colors. What you see as green is the epoxy which is more yellow. The brown areas are the original polyester matt/roving. With epoxy there are no problems with secondary bonding, that’s the main reason to use it.
Did you even have a chance to get those measurements off you boat :D
Joel
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Nice work! Appreciate the pictures and desciptions. Keep 'em coming!
My project is at a pause until this heat wave up here blows by. Gets a tad steamy inside a Tyvek suit...
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Nice step by step. I don't think that transom will have any problem staying with the boat.
The red line? A way to lay in each layer of glass at the same height?
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Nice step by step. I don't think that transom will have any problem staying with the boat.
The red line? A way to lay in each layer of glass at the same height?
Actually the red line is a thread that runs through all Owens Corning "Knitex" brand biaxial cloth - sort of their logo. Its the NIKE swoosh of fiberglass :lol:
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I was referring to the original green glass that you ground off- your original layers in the hull were: white (gelcoat), green (layer of glass), then brown (another layer of glass). Just curious about the difference in the original layers of green and brown...
Once again hoping that bonding to the green layer is a non-issue.
Just realized I still owe you some measurements.. my bad. I haven't set foot in my hull for about a month due to some heavy training lately. I am planning on getting back to it soon.
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There is a coat of blue/green gelcoat under the first layer of white, maybe thats what you see in my pictures.
The green tint of the bare glass is from the software - there is not any green in the old glass. All the old glass was brown on top and normal "polyester tan" under. There were pools of pure resin, but I ground down until I got through at one layer of the original roving.
Measurements will be appreciated :D
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Hmmm... I was unaware that was gelcoat... and I am now thoroughly confused. I ground down the white gelcoat in my hull and got to the green (blue green), but that layer had roven in it. I had to grind a whole lot of green away to get to the brown, so I assumed it was two layers of glass. I roughed up the green, and bonded to it. Check out the pics in my thread:
http://www.classicaquasport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=957&start=45
I guess the questions is, did I get a good secondary bond to the green layer- which you are saying is gelcoat? UGH...
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Some polyesters have a green tint, but looking at you pictures the green looks like it might be putty from around the old transom core. I just cant tell from teh pictures.
If you ground down to roving you should be fine
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My 240 had green gelcoat (brushed, mostly) all over the inside. In many places it was covered over with subsequent layers of resin/roving. No bond whatsoever.
Quick question, Shine, since you mentioned wood flour... is the purpose of the flour ease in sanding? Easier than cabosil-filled resin?
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So you're telling me if I bonded to the green stuff, I am FUBARed?
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If you sanded it thoroughly with coarse grit you should be OK. In my case, Aquasport simply glassed over the smooth gelcoat.
My boat was full of surprises. Hope I've found them all...
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Quick question, Shine, since you mentioned wood flour... is the purpose of the flour ease in sanding? Easier than cabosil-filled resin?
Yep. Not as strong as an adhesive nor structurally as strong but nice for filling holes, fairing corners, etc. Sanding is much easier. Leaves a tan patch. I'm no expert but I wouldn't use it below the waterline.
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Will give it a shot.
Sanding cabosil-filled resin in an inside 3-way corner is a bear!
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Woodflour makes a very strong fillet mix and a very strong glue (with epoxy). Woodflour glue is better than silica/cabosil its not brittle. Adding just a little silca/cabosil to the wood flour will make it smoother in consistency and less likely to sag. The wood flour comes from an industrial wood products supplier and is super fine. Its a little easier to sand, but I try to avoid sanding anything other than fairing compound.
I have the transom foam cut out, just need to trim it to shape. Will post pictures soon.
Joel
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What fairing compound do you use?
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Is it adviseable to use wood flour with Polyester resin?
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We mix Phenolic Micro Balloons with a touch of silica to give a nice fairing mix. I mix this with the same Marinepoxy for large fairing. For the final fairing I use System Three Quick Fair - is fantastic/ Super smooth and can be sanded in 4 hours :D
Im sure you can use wood flour with polyester, but I have never done it. I only use polyester to make full parts in one shot - then all secondary bonding is done with epoxy.
For this boat, i may use polyester to make some frames and stringers, then tape tab them to the hull with epoxy and biaxial tape.
We will see :D
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August 4
Bedding the transom core. The Transom core is Renicell E240 from DIAB, 2” thickness. The foam will is bedded in epoxy glue made from regular Marinepoxy and woodflour/silica.
The cardboard template was used to cut the core, then we dry fit it into the boat. The core was trimmed so that it fit flush again the outside skin. This of course leaves gaps around the sides that will be filled with epoxy before the inside glassing begins. It is VERY important to avoid gaps between the core and the skins so make sure the core fits flush. The idea in bedding your core is to apply even pressure all around to squeeze out excess epoxy glue. Epoxy is a great gap filler. Bonds are stronger when you do not squeeze out too much.
We used galvanized bolts to pull the core into the skin. The bolds are spaced at 8”. For a plywood core I would recommend more bolts (plywood is much stiffer). Two of the bolts on the top/outside are facing inward, this gives a place to “hang” the glued core, while the other bolts are put through facing out.
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_August4%20001.jpg)
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_August4%20003.jpg)
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_August4%20004.jpg)
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_August4%20006.jpg)
Dry fit and do a test run! We glued this transom (2 people) in less than 20 minutes from the first mixing of epoxy to the last tightening of the bolts. On this day it was at least 90 degrees, so you will not have much time even with a SLOW hardener.
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_August4%20007.jpg)
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_August5%20004.jpg)
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_August5%20006.jpg)
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_August5%20018.jpg)
We rolled a coat of unthickened epoxy onto the core and the inside skin before the glue was applied with the notched spreader. Glue was applied to both the core and the skin. The core was “hung” on the skin. Bolts were tightened beginning with the inside and working out. Any material squeezed out was removed.
TIPS:
Have multiple 1 quart mixing cups ready
One person does nothing but mix the other mixes and spreads.
Store the epoxy in a refrigerator for a few hours before mixing to give a couple extra minutes
Pour, don’t pump – pumping takes too long
Use a notched spreader – helps to apply the glue evenly and gives an escape for air
We mixed 5 pots of glue. Each pot was 15 oz of epoxy total (10 resin, 5 oz. hardener) and enough woodfour/silca to give us a nice non-sagging constancy. I estimate we put 3 quarts of glue total down and squeezes out 1 pint.
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Now that you have the core in. :D
If you would have went ahead and cut the core 1/2in or 3/4in shorter than the outside skin, that would give you a shelf for the topcap to sit on. Depending on the thickness of the material used for the top cap.
Much easier to cut before it's installed. especiall if you are putting camber into the top cap. Which look's much better than a stright across transom.
It's hard to see in this pix.
(http://www.classicmako.com/projects/xshark/images/File0013.jpg)
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Only 90 degrees, must be nice to work in such cool weather! I know what you mean about the slow hardner. Pretty much been working in 95 plus weather this summer here near the coast in GA. Been a killer! Especially the grinding. I have been very happy with the epoxy resin and slow hardner from US Composites. Still has a very good pot life, even in this heat.
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Im not sure how we are going to finish the transom; motorwell or flush with bracket. I am sure it will have a camber, just dont know how much a I want yet
I am leaning towards closing it in for a bracket.
Oh yeah, I took the melanine off yesterday.....
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_August7%20003.jpg)
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_August7%20004.jpg)
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A 1 1/2in rise in the middle look's good on them, for these width boat's.
It's not to radical and still easy to stand on.
But as I said, had you measured and layed it out with a batten and cut the core before you installed it life would have been much simpler.
http://www.classicmako.com/projects/xshark/bw4.htm (http://www.classicmako.com/projects/xshark/bw4.htm)
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August 14, 2006
Put in first 2 layers of inside transom skin. First layer is 1708, second is DB1700. The inside skin will be 4 layers total of 17 oz. Biaxial glass. The first layer has mat (1708) because the mat helps conform to any uneven spots in the fillet. Subsequent layers will not have mat as it will just use more epoxy and not add strength.
I worked “wet on wet” for the fillets and the first two layers of glass. Using a mix of silica/woodflour and epoxy, the gaps along the sides and bottom of the core had been filled so the filler was level with the core. Using the same mix, we laid fillets along the joint. This fillet is about ½” radius.
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_August12%20002.jpg)
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_August12%20001.jpg)
After 15 minutes or so, the fillet is firm but not hard. At this point we lay in the pre-wet 1708. Because the fillet is not hard, you will be able to push the glass into the fillet making for a very clean lamination – no air bubbles. A second layer of DB1700 was wet out on top of the 1708. DB1700 (17 oz. with out mat) wets out much easier than 1708, so you can do it on the part – no need to wet out the back side before placing it.
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_August12%20003.jpg)
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_August12%20004.jpg)
All the inside layers will be overlapped by 3”-4” working up the hull. Working wet on wet saves time and makes for better laminations. In this case we should have gone ahead with the last 2 layers, but time did not permit.
Joel
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Ok, I am curious- I thought the reason for using mat between layers of DB was that CSM was a better binder?
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With polyester the secondary bond is poor and the mat helps. With epoxy the secondary bond is much stronger and you dont need the mat except when it helps build cheap bulk or when laying over uneven surfaces.
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August22
Transom is complete!
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_August22%20003.jpg)
Have spent the last couple days grinding out a path for the new stringers. Unfortunately it want not just a matter of cleaning a path, but removing 2 layer of roving and matt. Even with a 24 grit grinding disk, it took 6 hours total. Results are a clean path for the bond of the new stringers and about 40 pounds of fiberglass dust in the trash can.
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_August22%20002.jpg)
Now I start taking some measurements for the stringers. I sure wish I could find someone who could give me some measurements of the original sole height :D :D
Joel
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SHITE!
Just sent myself ANOTHER email to my house:
Remember to measure the Sole height...
Please remind me again EXACTLY what you need measured (from and to). Bottom of the hull to top of sole? At the sides, or middle? At the Stern and Bow?
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:D Ha, I know how it is.
I would love to know cockpit depth at the transom and another measurement right before the casting deck (step up). From the sole surface to the top of the gunnel.
Also the distance from the transom to the console (aft side).
I just want to see how far off the previous rebuild was from original.
I appreciate it.
Joel
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This has been on my mind for a while Shine.
Seeing as how you are associated with
----- Boatbuildercentral.com ------Bateau.com-----Boatplans-online.com--------
Why are you not building one of those boat's?
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It would be less work, thats for sure.
We are rebuilding this boat because so many people ask how to use our products in a rebuild (plywood, resin, glass, foam). We have had to send them to our boat building tutorials, which dont apply directly to re-building. Its a growing part of our business and it deserves support.
We will use this boat for a while, then sell it. It was always either going to be an Aquasport, Mako, or maybe seacraft. This hull shape is more along the lines of most our designs anyway, so I think its a good fit. I like medium speed, warped bottom, classic boats.
I have one of our flats boats, a couple canoes, and a dingy. In a few months we will have complete plans for a couple 28' center consoles - I will build one for myself - my offshore boat :D
Joel
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August 25
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_August25%20003.jpg)
Made templates for stringers. Having a lip of the old sole still in place allowed me to take a straight edge and square to take rough measurements of the stringer depth. Using those rough measurements I cut out templates from scrap plywood. Make sure when you join the scrap that you maintain a straight edge for the top. I cut the template an inch or so short on the hull side of the stringer so I could “float” it over the hull in the correct place (over the old stringer location).
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_August25%20006.jpg)
Using a block of wood, I to scrib the contour of the bottom onto the template. Later I will the same block to transfer that shape onto the stringer material. At this point stringer template height is all the way to the top of the old sole. I am still unsure of how high I want the sole and the thickness of the material I will use. When decide on these two, I will offset the top edge of the template to compensate.
Hopefully I can get those sole measurement next week:)
Joel
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Stringers are built. (1” of H80 Divinycell, and 3 layers of 17 oz. biax each side) They also get plenty of tabbing with biax tape and a “cap” of several layers of biax tape.
I need to clear up the sole height thing before putting them in. I saw a flatback this weekend and from the sole to the gunnel cap was about 21” and the guy told me it was selfbailing even with a 200 hp. Right now the stringers are cut to a height that will give me 17". 4" of freeboard is a big deal - its easy to trim them now (before they get glassed in).
Can anyone tell me the sole height of a flatback?
Joel
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new stringers going in....
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_September20%20001.jpg)
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The going has been slow, but the stringers are glassed in......
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_September30%20004.jpg)
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_September30%20005.jpg)
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Beautiful work :!: :shock: :D :!: Much better than the factory turned out.
I'll rummage around the 222 literature I have and see if I have some specs for you.
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This is all I've got right now. Sales pitch stuff mostly. Hope it helps some...
(http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c8/JimCT_/AS22-2priceoptionsc1972.jpg)
(http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c8/JimCT_/AS22-2brochure1c1970s.jpg)
(http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c8/JimCT_/AS22-2brochure2c1970s-1.jpg)
(http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c8/JimCT_/AS22-2brochure3c1970s.jpg)
(http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c8/JimCT_/AS22-2brochure4c1970s.jpg)
These boats were made for twins. But I am biased...
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Stringers are built. (1” of H80 Divinycell, and 3 layers of 17 oz. biax each side) They also get plenty of tabbing with biax tape and a “cap” of several layers of biax tape.
Very nice work Shine. Have a few questions, hopefully not too stupid - the Divinycell, what does it look like raw - foam? I say raw because you said you put 3 layers of glass on each side. Also the term "tabbing" (which I've heard other members use) - is that term used for the fiberglassing connection to the perpendicular surfaces - laying glass on the two surfaces in increasing overlapping depths? Or a temporary connection and the description above is something else?
These boats were made for twins. But I am biased...
Why are you biased? Do you have a twin sibling?
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My bias is in providing redundancy wherever possible. One engine and crossed fingers isn't my idea of peace of mind.
To pick up on Ricks question, on joining perpendicular members, do you radius (fillet) the connection line? If so with what material?
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Divinycell is PVC foam specifically made to be core in composite construction, H80 is the 5 lb density. There are 2 ways to make foam stringers. In this method, the foam is part of the structure and it is important what sort you use. The other way is make the foam just a form to lay glass over. But you need much more glass and it ends up being heavier.
When I mentioned "tabbing" I mean the 3 layers of 6" biaxial glass tape that joins the stringer to the hull. There is a 1/2" radius fillet under the glass, it make the transition smooth and much stronger than without a fillet.
A trick to getting super clean laminations is to work "wet on wet". For example: make the fillet, then only after 10 minutes or so (while its still soft) lay the first layer of tape onto the fillet. Now when you wet out the tape with more epoxy, the filet and the glass blend in and cure together. The subsequent layers of tape are laid on there after. Also, you end up using less epoxy this because any extra epoxy from one layer helps to wet out the next - less waste
Thanks for the old picturess, pretty cool
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Raw Devenicell.
(http://www.classicmako.com/projects/xshark/images/portcons1.jpg)
http://www.classicmako.com/projects/xshark/bw14.htm (http://www.classicmako.com/projects/xshark/bw14.htm)
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The hull is getting new glass :D Below we show 50 oz. of new fiberglass one one side of the boat. Its 2 layers of 1708 with epoxy. We will hopefully get the rest of the bottom glassed next week.
It took hours of grinding to remove the "repair" layers of glass. The previous repair was done with polyester and mat, they just slopped it in. There were water filled voids every where, also huge pools of plain resin. The 7" grinder with 24 grit disk made it a little easier vs. the old 4.5" grinder.
It was easy to tell when we ground down to the original 30+ year old glass, as it was much better.
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_October12%20002.jpg)
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_October13%20001.jpg)
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_October13%20002.jpg)
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_October13%20003.jpg)
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Have you decided whether you are going to fill the bilge with foam or leave her empty? Looks great!!
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Very, very nice work.
Whose epoxy are you using?
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Im sure the moderators are sensative to their forums being used to advertise products, so I wont do it intentionally.
But the epoxy is our brand, Marinepoxy.
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More glass on the bottom between stringers, also filled in the space that is the keel – filled with foam and glassed right over it. Next will come the uni-directional carbon fiber for the cap of the stringer. We will use a much stiffer epoxy for the carbon fiber.
If anyone want to come by and help remove the rest of the old cap and sole, let me know. Im not looking forward to the last of the demo work :evil:
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/thumb_October20%20002.jpg)
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You're going to use carbon fiber? Seems like overkill, so curious why you think it is necessary?
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The stringers need to be capped, I can save some weight by going with the CF over glass. I can use less (weight) of CF vs. using glass. So I get the same stiffness with less weight.
Plus, I have CF that Im not using on anything else, it not doing much good on the shelf.
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Plus, I have CF that Im not using on anything else, it not doing much good on the shelf.
The truth comes out! I wish I had material just laying around...
Question (on material): I was at FGCI on thursday talking to one of their knowledgable sales guys... and he recommended using 2 layers of 2415 stitchmat versus 3 layers of 1808XM when building my stringers. He explained that the 2415 will add more total thickness, thus more stiffness than 1808. He conceeded that 1808 is stronger where there will be more flexing (like in the hull), but that the additional thickness from more material would be beneficial in a stringer layup.
Agree, disagree? I would rather do less lamination than more, but don't want to skimp either.
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Based on the stringer detachment problems in my 240, I'd say the greatest stress to the stringer grid is at the lines of attachment to the hull. I've beefed up these areas with four layers of stichmat laminated over generous fillets. This also is important if you will be transporting the boat on a roller trailer, as I will be, since the rollers support the hull only at descrete points. A bunk trailer minimizes the stresses considerably by distributing the load over a much larger area. The extra glass adds a few pounds but the peace of mind is worth it.
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Jim- why not just set your trailer up with bunks?
And I just think they did a crappy job of attatching the stringers in the first place- mine were not attached at all.
Good thoughts though- thanks.
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Jim- why not just set your trailer up with bunks?
And I just think they did a crappy job of attatching the stringers in the first place- mine were not attached at all.
Good thoughts though- thanks.
LilRichard Here in lie's the diffrence in Fl and new england area and the reason for a roller trailer up north.
It's the tide's.
We get a average tide of 1ft to 1 1/2ft rise and fall. They get as much as 8ft or more up there.
Then you have a set length of the boat ramp and need to unload shallower. So you need the roller trailer up there. This is also the reason you see a lot of power winch's on trailer's up there.
here we just drive it on the trailer.
:D
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I never knew that- thanks for enlightening me...
I think I would hate having to tie up a boat with that kind of varying water level.
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Here in GA our tides average 7ft between high and low on neap tides and regularly reach 9 1/2ft difference on spring tides. I would say that bunks outnumber rollers around here on all but the biggest boats. It does mean you have to know your ramps and at times have to dip the trailer in farther to load the boat. Slick bunks can help as long as you don't launch the boat on the dry ramp.
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Mat has very little strength, so I try to avoid it. With epoxy its not needed, as the epoxy secondary bond is much, much better than poly. With poly you need the mat to "tie" the two layers together.
With directional glass and epoxy, you can achieve lighter parts with the same or better stiffness. You can make your stringers out of 100% matt if you want, but they weigh as much as the rest of the boat.
The next step up in strength/weight is carbon fiber, Kevalr, or S-glass. All of these are used with epoxy or vinyester and make for even lighter parts. For these boats, the extra weight saving is hardly worth the increase in cost. Carbon fiber will run at least 5 times more than regular E-glass (what we are all using)
The new stringers are glassed to the hull with epoxy, I am confident that the boat will break in half before the stringers delaminte from the bottom :D
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Mat has very little strength, so I try to avoid it.
I totally agree and use VERY little of it thruout my whole project.
Fact is, it's a waste of good epoxy.
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Progress is slow but steady, the bottom has new glass. 50 oz. of new 1708/epoxy.
The rest of the old cap, sole, and frames are out. I also have taken out a couple hundred pounds of mat that was laid on in the previous "re-build" to the sides. You can see from the below pictures, its all been removed to the original glass on the port side. I am going to put more new epoxy/biax on the sides. Instead of using 1708 (like on the new bottom) we will probably use jut DB1700 (no need for the mat on the sides).
This is the last of the demo work, thank goodness.
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_October31%20007.jpg)
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_October31%20008.jpg)
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Grinding is complete :) Tomorrow the stringers get capped with unidirectional carbon fiber and a new "stem" of Renicell foam core and biax. The bow stem will be built as tough as the transom.
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/11.14.06%20001.jpg)
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_11.14.06%20002.jpg)
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Looking good - nice and clean workmanship.
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What are the bolts for, a spray rail?
If so, which did you decide on? How did you attach (5200 in addition to the bolts)? I am getting close to that point... would like some input.
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If you look on page 1, you'll see sprayrails on the boat when he got it. Talking to the guys at the get together, the consensus was that sprayrails belong on every Aquasport CC.
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Agree. They can be a bit damp in a chop.
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I don't consider my 22-2 CCP a wet boat. Just the right touch on the motor trim and trim tabs takes care of everything but a quartering wind. I don't think anything helps then.
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Rick - I agree, and plan to put some on my ride... just looking for a place to buy them and some install instructions. I have been told that thru bolting them is the way to go... but what length? Capt. Lemke had the 16ft rails, but the ones on Shine's boat look like 8ft. Then Bill Millers boat had spray rails all the way to the stern. Someone care to chime in here?
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Stringers are capped with carbon fiber and regular biaxial fiberglass tape. We used Silvertip epoxy with the carbon fiber. In order to get the best of the carbon's properties, you need to use a more high performace epoxy.
The carbon and glass tapes were wet out on the long table, then rolled up and taken to the boat. Once all 3 layers were on (1 layer carbon, 2 layers glass) we squeezed and rolled on a sheet of plastic. This holds the lamination dwn very well and gets rid of all/most air bubbles.
Also today we glued in new foam core into the bow, tomorrow we will lay new glass over this (several layers of Biaxial) to make a new bow "stem". The foam is the same material as the transom (E240 Renicell from DIAB), we just ued a grinder to shape it.
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_11.15.06%20003%7E0.jpg)
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_11.15.06%20004%7E0.jpg)
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_11.15.06%20006.jpg)
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_11.15.06%20007.jpg)
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_11.15.06%20010%7E0.jpg)
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_11.15.06%20001%7E0.jpg)
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Shine- interested in learning more about your "Bow Stem". I had considered running a third stringer from my first bulkhead forward up to the bow to reinforce, but had not thought of your method. Is that as strong?
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(1 layer carbon, 2 layers glass)
Why did you feel it nessissary to use the carbon? Just trying to keep it rigid and a little lighter?
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Richard, it will add stiffness no doubt, but its also there to make a nice transition for the new Biax that we laying in – the angle is a little sharp up in the bow.
Wart, the CF is lighter and uses less labor relative to the amount of glass that would be needed to get the same stiffness. I got a good deal on it so it was not a terribly expensive thing to do. If there is one place in the boat where you get the most bang for the buck out of exotic fibers, its capping the stringers with CF.
Got the “new” 66 gallon aluminum fuel tank yesterday. Should be plenty for the size motor (150) we plan to use. Anyone want the old one? Its free to a good home. I needs a new vent fitting and has some slight pitting, but Im sure it could be fixed.
Joel
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So Joel- Would you be an advocate of a third middle stinger running up from the fuel tank bulkhead to the bow? Wart, your thoughts?
Gracias.
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What your talking about is a Keelson Rich.
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It depends on bottom thickness, and frame/stringer spacing.
From looking at your boat, the stringer grid looks like its going to be very similar to ours. You should not need a full middle stringer as long as you have full frames no more than 3' apart (our will be a little closer than that).
How far apart are your stringers?
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35", for that exact reason. My plan would not be for a full middle stringer, just one from the forward bulkhead to the bow... didn't know if you caught that.
I just figured that part of these boats takes a beating, and am curious if it should be reinforced up front.
Thankyou both for your feedback. I may be over in stuart sometime soon... you mind if I drop by to check out the progress on my way through?
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35" is a lot, mine are spaced at 24". I would add one in the middle, it does not necessarily have to be full height (up to the sole). Putting it over the skeg will effectively make it taller anyway. Your skeg is glassed over right?
joel
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Yup, the keel is glassed over. I was going to use a half round (split 6" PVC) down the middle. Gotta have something to sit the tank on anyway. I wasn't as concerned with the greater width of mine because I am planning on doing the grid style... or maybe that's the direction you are going to?
Speaking of yours being 24" apart, where will your tank go? You going with a narrow, long tank?
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Yup, the keel is glassed over. I was going to use a half round (split 6" PVC) down the middle. Gotta have something to sit the tank on anyway. I wasn't as concerned with the greater width of mine because I am planning on doing the grid style... or maybe that's the direction you are going to?
Speaking of yours being 24" apart, where will your tank go? You going with a narrow, long tank?
Yep, tank is 24" and fits, its 66 gallons. We will also have frames (which makes the grid) every 36" or less. Where the tank goes we will have a short frame so the tank will fit (its 60 something inches long)
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More pictures. We used cardboard to make templates for all the floor frames.
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_11.20.06%20001.jpg)
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_11.20.06%20002.jpg)
Cut the pieces out from a pre-made divinycell panel.
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_11.22.06%20001.jpg)
Those pieces then get "tacked" in place with thickend epoxy.
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_11.22.06%20004.jpg)
Then we lay in fillet material, followed by 2 layers of 6" 12oz. Biaxial tape - all "wet on wet".
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_11.22.06%20003.jpg)
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_11.22.06%20006.jpg)
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_11.22.06%20005.jpg)
Here is the console, its very similar to a Pathfinder Bayboat
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_11.22.06%20007.jpg)
And the 66 gallon tank with digital sender unit
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_11.22.06%20008.jpg)
2 things I have to settle on soon:
Biatwell/leaning post - do i go with a rocket launcher and removable plastic well or an "all in one" fiberglass leaningpost/baitwell?
Hatch covers - I dont really want to build them, so I will probably go with the better quality plastic ones. Any recommendations on the best?
happy Thanksgiving
Joel
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Joel, your work looks beautiful. Really appreciate the pictures & narrative.
Have a great Thanksgiving!
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I don't know about hatch covers, but I'd go with a Hammerhead livewell/leaning post.
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Joel- check your Private Messages...
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I don't know about hatch covers, but I'd go with a Hammerhead livewell/leaning post.
I will price them out, thanks
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Joel- You make any decisions on hatches yet? I am trying to figure out what to do myself... wanted to go the fiberglass route, but also do not want to build them all.
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I have gone full circle, unless I can find some decent ones we will build them. Will probably make a mold for drains so we can use them again.
this would be for the sole hatches (fish boxes). Hatches for the console/anchor well/ motorwell bulkhead will be bought.
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Quick update:
Beginning to glue cleats to frames - the 2" Renicell foam is overkill, but its what we had left over from the transom. the sole will have A LOT of support and gluing area.
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_11.28.06%20004.jpg)
These are "frames" made of the same renicell and a few layers of Biax - this is what the fuel tank will rest on. The black strips are 1/4" neoprene - use strips of this all around the fuel tank.
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_11.28.06%20003.jpg)
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_11.28.06%20002.jpg)
This is the baitwell/leaning post we are going to use. Its going to need some work. 30 gallon live.
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_11.28.06%20006.jpg)
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Joel- what are you doing for drainage from all of the chambers (including the tank area) you have created? The bulkheads don't seem to have limber holes...
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That deck will set the world's record for strength!
Good question regarding the limber holes.
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Joel- what are you doing for drainage from all of the chambers (including the tank area) you have created? The bulkheads don't seem to have limber holes...
sealed off for eternity - and filled with foam also. There will be a couple fish boxes forward that will either drain to the bilge or overboard - not sure yet.
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There's no such thing as "sealed forever" on a boat, is there? I would just be concerned about water getting in there and never getting out. I am going limber hole crazy on my boat, even with the thought that I will seal mine up.
FYI, I am still asking that, not stating it... I know you have many years more experience than me.
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(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_11.28.06%20004.jpg)
Maybe it's an optical illusion, but it looks like the floor has a concave roll to it, instead of the normal convex (higher in the middle than the sides). Am I just seeing it from a bad angle?
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What is the normal amount of deck height change? Simply stated, how much higher is the middle than the outer edges? Is there an average?
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Don't know if there is an "average" but usually they are bowed/crowned up a little to shed water to the sides. At least mine was/is.
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that one cleat needs to be shaved down - it not level. The rest of the frames are. I think the straight edge we use was too long to fit up there.
Putting camber in the sole is nice, but I am going to use pre-made Nida-core panels for the sole, they come finished and flat. For cockpit drainage we will have recesses on each side of the rear of the sole - that will drain out the transom.
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Update:
The last of the cleats are glued to the frames. We are going to use pre-finished Nida-Core honey comb panels for the sole – the large cleats will give a nice base for the seams of the panels to rest.
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_12.07.06%20003%7E0.jpg)
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_12.07.06%20009%7E0.jpg)
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_12.07.06%20013%7E0.jpg)
The motorwell bulk head is being classed in, we made it from H80 and 2 layers of 17 oz biax on each side (45/45 and 0/90). Silvertip epoxy was used for this very important part.
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_12.07.06%20001%7E0.jpg)
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_12.07.06%20005%7E0.jpg)
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_12.07.06%20011%7E0.jpg)
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_12.07.06%20012.jpg)
Tank is installed.
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_12.07.06%20010%7E0.jpg)
Next week the sole goes on
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Really enjoy seeing your pictures! Good step-by-step sequences.
How is the fuel tank going to be secured?
Will there be any ventilation for the fuel tank well?
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Alright, there's no dumb question, right?
What's the purpose of the motor-well bulkhead? If you put a cap across the rear and a bracket on the back, why would you need a bulkhead?
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Alright, there's no dumb question, right?
What's the purpose of the motor-well bulkhead? If you put a cap across the rear and a bracket on the back, why would you need a bulkhead?
There will be a small motor well. I do not want all that weight so far back - so we are just going to use a 6" setback jackplate. So there will be about a 5" cut out on the transom. The motor well bulkhead will be a nice curve and a strip of the "cap" will run over at that nice camber
Its difficult to describe but Im trying to get a compromise between the benefits of the cutout transom and the enclosed transom
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That makes more sense to me then... didn't realize you were cutting out some of the transom.
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This is a good example of how the hole's should be drilled thru the stringer for the fuel hose's.(http://www.smileypad.com/v224/Happy/Big-Thumbs-Up.gif)
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_12.07.06%20010%7E0.jpg)
I assume that cavity to STB will get foam filled?
I'd run a piece of PVC as a chase tube to bring the hose's to the deck. That way if it ever need's to be changed in the future it will be a snap to do.
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By the way Shine. I gave instruction's and manpower yesterday on wiping the bottom of the hull on a CS25 - Carolina Sportfish with Quik Fair.
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Your helping with a CS25? Nice. :wink:
We will fill the cavity (fuel) with foam at least around the sides. There are brackets on the tanks with screw/bolt holes - we will secure those to the frames. Also, those big renicell foam cleats are going to hold her down. The sole goes right over top.
We plan to run the fuel fill and vent up the sides to the gunnel (in a box). There will be an inspection plate on the "box", over the fill/vent of the tank, and also over the feed/sender. The later will be inside the console and hidden. It will allow for the space to be aired out if necessary.
Joel
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Sole is cut out and fit dry. We are using the 20mm (3/4") pre-fab panels. they come with 18 oz glass on each side.
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_12.21.06%20001.jpg)
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_12.21.06%20002.jpg)
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_12.21.06%20003.jpg)
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_12.21.06%20004.jpg)
Next week we will start glassing up those pieces and putting them in the boat. Have to fill those voids with foam first. Merry Christmas to all :D
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What's the core of the panels?
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Nidacore?
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http://www.nida-core.com/english/index.htm (http://www.nida-core.com/english/index.htm)
http://www.nida-core.com/pdfs/pds/nidac ... Panels.pdf (http://www.nida-core.com/pdfs/pds/nidacore/pds_Panels.pdf)
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I've been waiting for someone else to ask, so I didn't seem too dumb :roll: , but it doesn't seem that you have much holding power with that material - meaning, are you going to have to put in some backing plates or something, everywhere you'll attach something to the floor?
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http://bertram31.com/proj/tips/sleeving.htm (http://bertram31.com/proj/tips/sleeving.htm)
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I knew that there had to be an extra step involved - thx.
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I've been waiting for someone else to ask, so I didn't seem too dumb :roll: , but it doesn't seem that you have much holding power with that material - meaning, are you going to have to put in some backing plates or something, everywhere you'll attach something to the floor?
Yes, absolutely!
The edges are routed out and filled with either high density foam core or thickened resin. Where there will be hardware, you would replace the honeycomb core with a high density insert. For small hardware, you can just use a backing plate. There is a lot more work to be done with Nida-core vs. plywood. If we went with marine plywood for this boat, it would be close to finished by now. As a very rough statement, it takes twice as much $ and twice as much time to do something in composites vs. plywood.
You also have to put in high density inserts with foam core. When we build the new deck (which we will do from H80 Divinycell), you will see inserts of the high density renicell in places where we will mount hardware.
Joel
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After making a bunk of temp. mold for the new deck “cap” I am starting to consider a bracket – keeping the deck camber unbroken all the way through the transom will look so much nicer than my small motor well idea. I am still collecting some technical specs, but with a rough drawing it look as if I can use a 10” setback jackplate with a 5 inch vertical travel. This will allow for the engine to be trimmed all the way out of the water without the cowling hitting the transom. For weight distribution, I do not want to set the engine any future back than 10”.
We have all the sole parts epoxied up and ready to glass into the hull. Next week the sole goes on. The we make the mold/jig for the new deck.
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Nice work!
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Shine, just FYI, most of the flatback guys seem to be using 17" Porta Brackets without any serious weight issues. If you can do with 10", that sounds even better though.
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Thanks richard :D
Im just leary of putting that much weight 17" back. If I can accomplish the same thing with 10" setback I will do it.
These flatbacks do not have the beam at the chine (displacement) as the more modern "descendants" like the Dorado, Gause, Sheaffer, etc...
The sheaffer lists a 8'6" beam. I assume thats at the widest part of the cap/shear line. So that would make the beam measurement at the transom-waterline maybe a little under 8'. The flatback is 6'6" :shock: There just is not near the displacement to float a big engine.
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I agree completely. Those guys are also rigging their boats with 200+ HP 4 strokes, which is far more weight than the 150HP 2 stroke I plan to use. Either way, I will be interested to see if a 10" setback would work with my boat.
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Making recesses for the scupper drains. ......
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_01.04.07%20005.jpg)
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_01.04.07%20007.jpg)
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_01.04.07%20008.jpg)
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_01.04.07%20009.jpg)
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_01.04.07%20010.jpg)
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_01.04.07%20011.jpg)
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_01.04.07%20012.jpg)
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_01.04.07%20014.jpg)
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_01.04.07%20013.jpg)
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This is the bottom of the leaning post/live well. We are going to glass this to the sole on the outside. On the inside we will epoxy glue a 90 degree "flange" that we made in a mold out of 6" ox Biax tape and a divinycell triangle. You might notice that the sides of the leaning post are mishaped.
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_01.04.07%20001.jpg)
We are going to epoxy the 90 degree pieces to the sole, they will then force the base of the leaning post back to shape. Then we glass all around the outside. This is the 90 degree bracket or "cleat"....
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_01.04.07%20002.jpg)
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Where are the scupper drains going to be? Was that the floor you are recessing them into?
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Yep, thats the sole. They will drain out the transom
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One thought- these boats are known to sit a$$ heavy (as you know) so just be careful not to get the scuppers too low in the water. I think your sole is much higher than mine, so you should be good. I know you probably already thought of all that, but would rather speak up than not.
I am planning on float testing my rig prior to scupper installation to make sure I have the proper leeway.
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My sole should be just slightly higher than the original design (maybe 1/2") plus the boat should also be lighter by a couple hundred pounds.
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Lighter the better. LR's float test sounds like a good idea. Better than guessing.
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I can see on my hull where the boat used to sit- and there would be no room for under-floor scuppers with a factory sole height. I am going to do the straight out the back setup, and my floor is 1.5" higher than factory...
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Mine are going straight out the back too !!! :shock:
I think the picture is misleading. The drain will go straight through the bulkhead (nothing under the sole). The recess area just allows the fitting to sit a little lower than the sole - so you dont have that little bit of water in the back of the boat.
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Ok, gotcha... I thought you were doing a 90deg bend with a floor scupper. Didn't think that would work very well!
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Very nice work Shine. :)
I really like the way you did you transom.
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Same here Shine. Nice work!
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Very nice work Shine. :)
I really like the way you did you transom.
Thanks, she will have a little more camber in the transom and decks - close to 3" at the transom. :D
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Camber = Strength.
My foredeck failed probably because of low camber.
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What do you think? The sole is not glassed down, we are just getting fianl placement on the leaning post and console.
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_01.09.07%20001.jpg)
This is how the scuppers will fit....
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_01.09.07%20004.jpg)
Stern view...
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_01.09.07%20003.jpg)
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Looks like the weight distribution will be about right with where you have the console & post placed. Scuppers look good too.
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Looks like the weight distribution will be about right with where you have the console & post placed. Scuppers look good too.
Center of the baitwell is located 63.5" from the top of the transom. Full baitwell and 2 guys sitting on top will be around 700 pounds, the fuel tank starts right under the standing space between the console and leaning post and goes forward from there. There will also be a cooler in front of the console.
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I like that console. Where did you pick that up from?
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Marine Connection in Ft. Pierce.
The console was OK, it has voids in the gel coat which we are grinding out. Aslo I plan to glass it directly to the sole (no screw, just one clean transition) so I cut the flange off. It will be sanded and painted the same color as the hull - I think.
Will do the same thing with the leaning post (glassed to hull)
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You're sure you're not going to add a casting platform, eh? Other than the benefits of having it, it might add to the resale that it will bring... anyone have an opinion on that?
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Yes, I change my mind on that also.
I think we will put a 12" casting deck up front, the sole will extend under that deck and be the bottom of the storage hatches. Hatches will drain to cockpit, then thru scuppers.
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My 170 is going to have the casting deck removed entirely.
That's mainly because I like a level floor from bow to stern. Also, there isn't much freeboard up there with it and I have two small children. :)
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I saw you added this pix. :D
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_01.09.07%20004.jpg)
Can I suggest that you use something like this fitting for your scupper's.
(http://www.marineeast.com/s_img_std/05_03.jpg)
ten build up that area so that all the water drain's out of those cup areas.
I hate when water stand's in areas and you can't get it out. It hold's dirt and sand too.
Cape Horn's are notorious for that. :(
Of course you may be using a shower drain style unit.
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.07%20004.jpg[/img]
Can I suggest that you use something like this fitting for your scupper's.
(http://www.marineeast.com/s_img_std/05_03.jpg)
Thanks! Your thinking the same thing. I thing I have seen that fitting in one of our distributors catalogs. Its one of those things I cant believe it took so long to invent.
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Didn't know such a fitting existed.
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Marine East Brouse all thru their product's.
http://www.marineeast.com/a_hme/hme_hme.asp (http://www.marineeast.com/a_hme/hme_hme.asp)
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If you are running a hose, as apposed to a hard line?
TH Marine has a inline check valve.
http://www.thmarine.com/product.cfm?PRID=199 (http://www.thmarine.com/product.cfm?PRID=199)
(http://www.thmarine.com/cat_images/Inline%20Scupper.jpg)
(http://www.thmarine.com/cat_images/Inline%20Scupper%20-%20Exploded.jpg)
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I am only going to make one hatch for the boat (big one for the casting deck), so now I need to source hatches. There will be 3 along the motor well bulkheada and 2 small ones on the side of the baitwell/leaning post, one for the anchor locker, and another one for access to the console. The Bomar one are OK, but Im looking for any other ideas...... Wart?
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I like the access of one big one here. It makes thing's so easy to work on. Why fight it?
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v196/Warthog5/Filler13Small.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v196/Warthog5/Filler12.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v196/Warthog5/Filler11.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v196/Warthog5/TransomCavity003.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v196/Warthog5/TransomCavity004.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v196/Warthog5/NASAHatch002.jpg)
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An absolute thing of beauty that wiring and hose set up!
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more progress....
We made the sole in three parts. This is the middle part, you can see we traced the footprint of the console. The holes are for chase tubes and inspections plate (one over the fuel fill/vent lines another over the fuel feed and gauge)
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_01.19.07%20001.jpg)
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_01.19.07%20002.jpg)
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_01.19.07%20005.jpg)
glass laid out and cut in advance. Fillet has been down for 20 minutes and is ready for glass.
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_01.19.07%20007.jpg)
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_01.19.07%20009.jpg)
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_01.19.07%20010.jpg)
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_01.19.07%20011.jpg)
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_01.19.07%20012.jpg)
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_01.19.07%20013.jpg)
This weekend we are going to add more glass to the Nida-core sole. and start with the molds for a new deck!
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Shine- looks very good. Is that 2 layers of 1808 tabbing?
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The beautiful work continues...
What glass will cover the Nida-core & how many layers? Still using epoxy for everything?
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Your progress is making me anxious to get going on my 222...
Very nice and detailed photos and descriptions.
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Using epoxy everywhere. We may use vinyester for the deck, but then epoxy again to bond it back to the hull. I am not married to a single material - I just want to use the very best for each application.
Speaking of the deck, here are the temp molds.....
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_01.22.07%20006.jpg)
The molds have the correct camber in them so the deck will flow nice and even all the way up to the bow. We will plank those temp. molds with foam core. Then laminate them in place with Biax and Vinyester. Remove the deck, flip it over and glass the under side. (this is the point were you put in the higher density foam inserts for rod holders, cleats, etc...) The we will glass it (with epoxy) to the hull.
This is a TON of work that you will not need to do if your cap is in good shape. Of course you could still do it if you wanted a on of a king custom look.
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Here is what I found when using some 3/4in Kledgecell. This is for the topcap on my transom.
i made this detailed mold to get the camber "Just" right. Vacuum bagged it and all.
Removed it from the mold and I could make it go flat again as soon as I picked it up. This was with the glass on just one side that would become the bottom side.
(http://www.classicmako.com/projects/xshark/images/File0018.jpg)
(http://www.classicmako.com/projects/xshark/images/File0019.jpg)
So here is my suggestion.
lay the panel's on the floor and glass the underside. Once that is set, place the panel's on your mold and form them then glass the top. They will stay in the correct shape then.
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Boy Shine, I was following along fat dumb and happy until now - you lost me. :roll: Are you talking deck or cap now? The braces across seem to be the top of the boat so I'm guessing cap, not deck, like in casting deck. Or are you talking about the small deck at the very front of the boat (like JimCt is working on)? Sorry for not "getting it".
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Boy Shine, I was following along fat dumb and happy until now - you lost me. :roll: Are you talking deck or cap now? The braces across seem to be the top of the boat so I'm guessing cap, not deck, like in casting deck. Or are you talking about the small deck at the very front of the boat (like JimCt is working on)? Sorry for not "getting it".
sorry to confuse...
"deck" is the term for what is often called a "cap". A casting deck is another "deck" that is above the "sole" which is what you walk on. A "floor" is not really used anymore, it used to be a wood member at the keel level.
So the molds you see are for the deck. This boat will not have a "cap" as the deck is going be one piece with the rest of the boat (glassed together). For me, the term "cap" refers to a separate fiberglass piece of the boat that is made separately that is fastened to the hull "capping it". This boat will be one piece.
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Shine-
In reference to the deck being glassed to the hull, will it be glassed on the outside seam, the inside seam, or both?
I have been contemplating how I will attach my "cap" after I recore it, and was considering glassing it to the hull like Warthog did on his Mako. So I am trying to get a feel for how you plan to approach this.
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Biaxial tape on inside and out. Also, I think I will put in a few frames close to the original location, for rod storage. Also will make additional supports for the deck.
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Boy Shine, I was following along fat dumb and happy until now - you lost me. :roll: Are you talking deck or cap now? The braces across seem to be the top of the boat so I'm guessing cap, not deck, like in casting deck. Or are you talking about the small deck at the very front of the boat (like JimCt is working on)? Sorry for not "getting it".
sorry to confuse...
"deck" is the term for what is often called a "cap". A casting deck is another "deck" that is above the "sole" which is what you walk on. A "floor" is not really used anymore, it used to be a wood member at the keel level.
So the molds you see are for the deck. This boat will not have a "cap" as the deck is going be one piece with the rest of the boat (glassed together). For me, the term "cap" refers to a separate fiberglass piece of the boat that is made separately that is fastened to the hull "capping it". This boat will be one piece.
Ok, so what I would call a cap - I'm used to a center console - is the "top of the boat" and that is what the word deck refers to. Got it.
Thanks.
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Rick, yep your "cap" is also the "deck" ;)
So we got to work on Saturday.......
Using a batten to visually check for the fairness of the deck molds. Deck molds are spaced every 16”. There was one high spot near mold #4 the we had to sand down, otherwise she looked great! No kinks or dips. For battens we used ½”x3/4” pine strips from the Home Depot, the longer the better. Vinyl trim pieces are also handy for checking fairness.
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_01.22.07%20004.jpg)
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_01.22.07%20005.jpg)
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_01.22.07%20006.jpg)
The outside edge of the batten is 7” in from the sheer, this will be were we trim the deck. Later we will add a coaming piece that will add another ½” to the deck width.
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_01.28.07%20006.jpg)
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_01.28.07%20007.jpg)
We made a mock up of the deck with scrap card board and plywood, it only took a few minutes, but it was nice to have a good look at the shape before we started cutting the Divinycell.
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_01.28.07%20008.jpg)
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_01.28.07%20009.jpg)
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_01.28.07%20010.jpg)
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_01.28.07%20011.jpg)
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_01.28.07%20012.jpg)
You can use a simple yard stick to make a radius (like a big compass)
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_01.28.07%20005.jpg)
Then we cut the foam…
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_01.28.07%20015.jpg)
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_01.28.07%20016.jpg)
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_01.28.07%20017.jpg)
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_01.28.07%20018.jpg)
We will trim the excess foam after we put the first layer of glass on.
Now for the glass work. 1708 with Vinyester. Later, when we glass the deck to the side, we will go back to epoxy. ALL secondary bonds on this boat are 100% epoxy!
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_01.28.07%20021.jpg)
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_01.28.07%20025.jpg)
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_01.28.07%20026.jpgv
[img]http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_01.28.07%20027.jpg)
Next we will trim the edges, cut the deck into 4 parts for removal, glass the underside, glass back onto boat. Frames will be located under the splice. Then the ½” coaming is glassed on. The coaming will extend 1” to 3” above the deck and at least 4” under it.
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I see says the blind man - nice work.
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Talk about doing it right... you guys don't mess around!
Really enjoy the pictures. Was a little confused about what was going on with the deck too but RickK beat me to the question. Lot of terminology differences floating around so I've tried to adapt to the local usage. Until I started my rebuild and got into reading up on fiberglass construction I'd never heard of a "cap" before. Sounds like you've done some wood boat work too.
How did you arrive at the deck camber you're using?
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Nice...
How did you secure the foam board down to the frames while glassing to maintain the shape/curve or do they just sit on top without anything other than gravity?
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We use small drywall screws. It would have nice to do it from the underside, so they could be backed out - but that looked to be a pain in the neck, literally. We screwed the foam down from the top and placed small pieces of tape over the heads. Then we just pull the screws thu the foam. It leaves very small holes that are filled with thickened resin when we glass the other side. I used the same idea when I built a 16’ flats boat from foam on wood slat mold and it worked just fine.
Jim,
I just drew out a couple curves and set them on the transom to see how they looked. Looked at lots of pictures here and at other site. Its close to 2.5" rise from the top of the sheer line at the transom. This is the most fun part, I think - you can be as creative as you want. :D
There is still A LOT of work to be done on this boat, I only wish I had more help, then we could launch in a couple months
Joel
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Underside of deck getting glassed. We used the “negatives” of the molds as a cradle so the deck would keep its proper shape when we glassed the underside skin. Once you glass the opposite side, the shape is basically permanent!
We also used a “pre-formed” stiffener up in the front of the deck, it’s a foam extrusion with 24 biax and uni-directional carbon fiber. It makes the front of the deck remarkably stiff – jump off the dock onto the deck, no problem.
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_02.05.07%20001.jpg)
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_02.05.07%20002.jpg)
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_02.05.07%20003.jpg)
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_02.05.07%20004.jpg)
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Did the panel's flatten right out with glass on one side when you went to flip them over? :D
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Did the panel's flatten right out with glass on one side when you went to flip them over? :D
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Did the panel's flatten right out with glass on one side when you went to flip them over? :D
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Did the panel's flatten right out with glass on one side when you went to flip them over? :D
With just the top skin, yes very floppy. We used the reverse side of the mold to reproduce the camber before glassing the bottom side. With both skins, she is quite stiff. Holds its shape very well right now.
Before it gets glass down we will put in the "rodholder" frames (and additional small hidden frames). The frames will match the location and shape of the temporary molds we used.
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10-4 That's what I figured. My result's were the same.
I did make rect. blocks of solid fiberglass to install as the core where the rod holder would be mounted.
This allowed them the rodholders to be thru bolted and not crush the core.
(http://www.classicmako.com/projects/xshark/images/File0036.jpg)
These were same thickness as the Kledgecell core. Block's installed and then core material butted to them. Then the top laminate was installed.
Vacuum ports sitting on the fiberglass block's, while core is being vacuumed down.
(http://www.classicmako.com/projects/xshark/images/File0039.jpg)
Laminated being vacuumed.
(http://www.classicmako.com/projects/xshark/images/File0040.jpg)
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Yeah, it would have been real nice to have a decent cap to work with - if for no other reason, I could have made a mold from it to make an all new cap. I even looked for another fatback around to here to buy just for the cap.
Your vacuum bag pictures are great
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Where's the update pix's? :D It's been a month.
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:?
I know. Just too busy. Hopefully we can get back to it next week
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10-4 I look forward to seeing your stuff. :)
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10-4 I look forward to seeing your stuff. :)
me too :D Maybe this weekend I can get something done
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Hey, remember me :D ...
we are making progress again on the boat. Templates for under gunnel rod racks. Due to the low freeboard, there is really only enough room for one rack. Personally, I do not like keeping anything there, save maybe a deck brush.
(http://gallery.bateau2.com/albums/userpics/12155/normal_3_23_2007%20003.jpg)
(http://gallery.bateau2.com/albums/userpics/12155/normal_3_23_2007%20002.jpg)
Templates for the front of the casting deck and the anchor locker are being made now. 2 longitudinal supports will also be under the casting deck "stringer extensions" I am thinking of one big hatch with a lip that extends over the front of the casting deck frame - a la "old mako style"
(http://gallery.bateau2.com/albums/userpics/12155/normal_3_23_2007%20002.jpg)
I am hoping to see a good boost of progress on the boat over the next few weeks
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Agree 100% about gunnel racks. Reels stick out just enough to bang into every time you walk by.
What are you using for template mat'l?
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The ones you're making won't hold a rod for long. Unless there is a reason you're using that design, my recommendation would be to use an off the shelf type that has the foam in them. At least the pole will be secure. The ones you're making now are like the ones on my 170 and they're useless. When trailering, the poles bounce out and when under way, they bounce out. It was a sad original design. My $.02.
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Rick, i was planning to use a small "flap" of HDPE to close of the opening. Just a thin strip that would swing down and lock it off.
I may leave the other side (starboard) without any rod holes cut into the frames. What does everyone think of that :?: It doesnt look bad to me to have asymmetric interior parts.
(http://forums.bateau2.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_4_01_2007%20002.jpg)
(http://forums.bateau2.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_4_01_2007%20001.jpg)
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Asymmetry makes it interesting... boat will look fine. Better to have it the way you want it.
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Asymmetry makes it interesting... boat will look fine. Better to have it the way you want it.
Agreed, glassed in the port side, now just have to round the stbd. sides with the router (once the thickened epoxy cures)
(http://forums.bateau2.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_4_01_2007%20004.jpg)
(http://forums.bateau2.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_4_01_2007%20005.jpg)
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We are building the casting deck. The longitudinal supports are 1/2" Divinycell with 1708 on each side, they are taped into the boat with 12 oz biax and epoxy.
This picture shows the supports just tabbed into place. We next make a fillet, let it tack up, then come right back "wet on wet" with the biax tape and marinepoxy.
(http://gallery.bateau2.com/albums/userpics/12155/normal_4_06_2007%20007.jpg)
(http://gallery.bateau2.com/albums/userpics/12155/normal_4_06_2007%20014.jpg)
I know its overkill, but the supports are double taped (offset seams)......
(http://gallery.bateau2.com/albums/userpics/12155/normal_4_06_2007%20015.jpg)
Here are the two pieces that will be the casting deck....
(http://gallery.bateau2.com/albums/userpics/12155/normal_4_06_2007%20009.jpg)
Here the top skin of the casting deck has been laminated. Again its over kill, but we went with 2 layers 1708 for top skin. Bottom skin will be just one. The great thing about using composites (foam core/honeycomb/epoxy) is that you don't mind adding extra weight in strategic places, because you have saved weight in others.
In other words I would rather have added weight in fuel capacity/bait well capacity, and thicker deck skins :)
(http://gallery.bateau2.com/albums/userpics/12155/normal_4_09_2007.jpg)
We also are working on a mold for drain channels that will make our hatches waterproof. Its something will eventually sell - this is something that will save a lot of time.
Joel
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Ain't nothin' wrong with overkill!!!! :D
Looks good! :)
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I bet you guys forgot about me :)
The casting deck is down, and we are fitting the deck. Next we have to build the coming, cut a few more hatches (transom and anchor locker), then its glassing in the console and leaning post.
(http://forums.bateau2.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_aquasport_5.16.07%20003.jpg)
(http://forums.bateau2.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_aquasport_5.16.07%20021.jpg)
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Figured you had some secret proprietary operations going on...
Looking good!
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Gluing up strip of 1/2" Renicell foam to make long coming strips for gunnels. Aluminum straight edges keep parts fair - very important for gunnels! We keep a few aluminum extrusions around for straight edges, they are the inexpensive screen porch parts from the home store.
(http://gallery.bateau2.com/albums/userpics/12155/normal_aquasport_5.17.07%20001.jpg)
Used the sander to make recess so the the fiberglass joint is level with foam - keeps fairing to a minimum.
(http://gallery.bateau2.com/albums/userpics/12155/normal_aquasport_5.17.07%20002.jpg)
Use plastic to keep the epoxy off your tools and a clean/flat surface
(http://gallery.bateau2.com/albums/userpics/12155/normal_aquasport_5.17.07%20003.jpg)
(http://gallery.bateau2.com/albums/userpics/12155/normal_aquasport_5.17.07%20004.jpg)
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making a foam core "box" to hide the fuel fill and vent hose running up the gunnels......
cut the foam to shape - this is H80 Divinycell 1/2"
(http://gallery.bateau2.com/albums/userpics/12155/normal_aquasport_5.31.07%20008.jpg)
use finish nails or tooth picks to hold it to shape (in more critical parts you would take more care for squareness)
(http://gallery.bateau2.com/albums/userpics/12155/normal_aquasport_5.31.07%20009.jpg)
make a fillet on the inside (epoxy/woodflour fillet)
(http://gallery.bateau2.com/albums/userpics/12155/normal_aquasport_5.31.07%20010.jpg)
working "wet on wet", lay glass into part (fillet is still tacky). we just used scrap cloth on the inside and then scrap 17 oz Biax ont he out side
(http://gallery.bateau2.com/albums/userpics/12155/normal_aquasport_5.31.07%20012.jpg)
(http://gallery.bateau2.com/albums/userpics/12155/normal_aquasport_5.31.07%20013.jpg)
After the inside glass stiffened up, we turn it over, remove nails :D , round the corner of the foam using a Stanly sureform plane, then glass the outside skin. Also added some fairing after the out side tacked up. And here you have your box....
(http://gallery.bateau2.com/albums/userpics/12155/normal_aquasport_5.31.07%20019.jpg)
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Also made a bunch of these babies ...
Its 18 lb foam with biax tape.
(http://gallery.bateau2.com/albums/userpics/12155/normal_aquasport_5.31.07%20020.jpg)
made them up in a "mold". Im going to use them to support the deck in critical areas (between the frames) they glue up very nice into corners with thickened epoxy - I just really hate trying to glass up side down which woudl have been the alternative.
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Glad your at it again. :)
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I know :!: I want this project finished soon.
Building/fitting the new deck has been the most trouble of anything. For time and money on material, I would have been better off buying another junker 222 just to cannibalize the cap
The only plus is that there will not be another one like her. The hull to deck joint is going to be very smooth. The camber in the deck towards the bow is very pretty, I cant wait to get some primer on it so its apparent in pictures.
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Junker 222?
No such thing.
What foam are you using for core? Looks like something I should be using for the 240.
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H80 Divinycell (blue colored foam) on frames, deck, casting deck, stringers, transom bulkhead.
We used some Nidacore (sole, and the anchor locker bulkhead, and those little rod holder frames above the sole) .
For transom and the coming we use Renicell (from DIAB the maker of Divinycell) is much more dense and it used in high compression spot. Renicell is the light green color foam
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OK, thanks! Will investigate if locally available.
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another long break between posts. We have been making very small steps lately. Only been able to put in an hour or two here and there.
The deck is secured and ready to be glassed to the hull. I made a mold (simple piece of plastic with release wax) for 90 degree composite "braces" it nothing more than triangles of transom foam, 1.5", and layers of 12 oz biax tape. They are very stiff. I used epoxied those braces/brackets to the deck/sides and to the frames to secure the deck permanently in place, while we fill the joint. I posted a picture of those braces just a few post before this one.
We ground back the foam core of the deck and back filled with thickened epoxy(there is tape underneath to keep it all from squeezing out). We used some cheap/thin plywood as a mold to get the shape just right. later I will come back with a round over bit and make a radius for the glass tape - that will glass the hull to the deck.
(http://gallery.bateau2.com/albums/userpics/12155/normal_6.19.07%20001.jpg)
(http://gallery.bateau2.com/albums/userpics/12155/normal_6.19.07%20002.jpg)
(http://gallery.bateau2.com/albums/userpics/12155/normal_6.20.07%20002.jpg)
(http://gallery.bateau2.com/albums/userpics/12155/normal_6.20.07%20001.jpg)
After spending way too much time looking for three perfect size and decent looking hatches for the rear of the boat - I just decided to follow Warts advise and make them. they are going to look so much better, and I really wanted to get the largest size access hole and still give 3"+ around the framing.
(http://gallery.bateau2.com/albums/userpics/12155/normal_6.19.07%20004.jpg)
(http://gallery.bateau2.com/albums/userpics/12155/normal_6.19.07%20003.jpg)[/img]
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Shine- work looks good- I can't wait to see this one come togehter.
When you're done with the molds, are you going to use them for something, or would they be for sale? I could use a few hatches like the middle one you're building... let me know please.
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My project is dragging a bit too but an hour here & there still pushes the effort forward. Be interested in your steps in making the custom hatches. Am considering making hatches for the 240 for additional access & stowage. There's a lot of wasted space under the decks of these boats.
Keep the pictures coming... good education for me.
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Shine- work looks good- I can't wait to see this one come togehter.
When you're done with the molds, are you going to use them for something, or would they be for sale? I could use a few hatches like the middle one you're building... let me know please.
Richard, keep this secret 8) :) ....
The 90 degree molds are made from plastic - In the fence department of home depot you will find the white plastic fence posts..... well just cut them in half (lengthwise on the the angle), coat them with wax or PVA and you ready to make those brackets.
they are not perfectly square and they are not perfectly smooth on the inside, but for making a few parts that are going to be hidden anyway, its perfect.
I did make a mold for drain lips, and I did not like the way they came out so i will be making another mold soon. That one will be a real mold as we plan on using it for a long time.
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Be interested in your steps in making the custom hatches. .
Jim,
The hatches are made from the cut out of the bulkhead. The only thing that has to be made is the lip. Also have to put in a latch.
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coming in place. It held true by dry wall screws, until we "tack weld" with epoxy. Then a fillet, then glass it to the deck.
The back side has been glassed already, so it gave the part some stiffness and allowed it to sit fair - a straight edge clamped also helped.
Its coming along now. The only thing that has to be "made" now is the hatch drain channels. I am unhappy with the first run of these, so we are going to make a mold for a better shape.
(http://forums.bateau2.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_aquasport_july07%20001.jpg)
(http://forums.bateau2.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_aquasport_july07%20002.jpg)
(http://forums.bateau2.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_aquasport_july07%20003.jpg)
(http://forums.bateau2.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_aquasport_july07%20004.jpg)
(http://forums.bateau2.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_aquasport_july07%20005.jpg)
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Very nice. Can't wait to see this finished!
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what is that material that is wrapped around the cap what is it made out of? and what is a fillet? is it just thickened epoxy?
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and what is a fillet? is it just thickened epoxy?
http://bertram31.com/proj/tips/epoxy.htm (http://bertram31.com/proj/tips/epoxy.htm)
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Good article J.J. Be perfect for the Resources section.
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and what is a fillet? is it just thickened epoxy?
http://bertram31.com/proj/tips/epoxy.htm (http://bertram31.com/proj/tips/epoxy.htm)
Great article - I agree with Jim, can you add this link to the resource section please John?
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coming glassed to deck, used a 1/2" radius fillet...
(http://forums.bateau2.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_aquasport_july_25_07%20003.jpg)
(http://forums.bateau2.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_aquasport_july_25_07%20002.jpg)
then we glassed it right after "wet on wet"...
(http://forums.bateau2.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_aquasport_july_25_07%20002.jpg)
yesterday we got the first of the fairing material on the boat. This was a loose mix, more of a "slurry" not a thick paste. We want it thin so it will be easy to fill the weave. Subsequent fairings will be thicker. We will move to Quick fair when the shape is close...
(http://forums.bateau2.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_aquasport_july_25_07%20006.jpg)
(http://forums.bateau2.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_aquasport_july_25_07%20007.jpg)
(http://forums.bateau2.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_aquasport_july_25_07%20008.jpg)
(http://forums.bateau2.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_aquasport_july_25_07%20009.jpg)
(http://forums.bateau2.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_aquasport_july_25_07%20010.jpg)
(http://forums.bateau2.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_aquasport_july_25_07%20012.jpg)
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Looking good! What was the filler mix? Just cabosil? Did you add chopped glass to the mix?
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Looking good! What was the filler mix? Just cabosil? Did you add chopped glass to the mix?
Thanka! I cant wait to get more fairing and some primer on.
For fairing, we use a blend of phenolic micro balloons, glass bubbles, and a little silica (cabosil)
100% cabosil (silica) - is way too hard to sand, so is wood flour , milled fibers, milled cotton, and chopped glass. Thos fillers are best for structural applications. You would end up using twice as much sand paper :shock:
Our blend has about 5% silica by weight - just enough to keep it from sagging or running.
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Reason I ask is that I've had cracking problems with fillets just filled with cabosil. Chopped glass seemed to help. After the fillets cure I over-coat with microballooned resin with about 10% cabosil for final fairing and an easier surface to sand.
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Reason I ask is that I've had cracking problems with fillets just filled with cabosil. Chopped glass seemed to help. After the fillets cure I over-coat with microballooned resin with about 10% cabosil for final fairing and an easier surface to sand.
I would not recommend ever making fillets from 100% silica - much too brittle, even when using a resin with a higher elongation (epoxy).
What resin do you use?
For fillets, I use wood flour and a tiny amount of silica (wood flour is very fibrous and strong, so is milled cotton)
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Polyester.
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Polyester.
By itself polyester is very hard and can be brittle, add silica and there is almost no elongation or "give". Milled glass or chopped strands of glass can make it hold together better (picture re-bar in concrete) and aggregate woudl be like the milled fibers. Alone, cement cracks very easy same with polyester resin.
You might try wood flour or milled cotton in your polyester fillets - much easier to smooth out vs. chopped glass
:D
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Will do. Still have a lot of filling & filleting to do on the 240... apparently an endless project.
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"rough" fairing has begun on the deck. We will move to Quick Fair soon. (Quick Fair is a pre-mixed epoxy based fairing compound).
While the fairing compound is still relatively soft, you can use a sure form tool to take off the really high spots - this saves a of of time and energy vs. sanding. Our fairing mix is a blend of Phenolic Micro Balloons, glass bubbles, and fumed silica.
(http://forums.bateau2.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_aquasport_july_27_07%20002.jpg)
The we move to some profiles with 40 grit, no need to be shy at this point :D
(http://forums.bateau2.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_aquasport_july_27_07%20003.jpg)
(http://forums.bateau2.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_aquasport_july_27_07%20004.jpg)
(http://forums.bateau2.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_aquasport_july_27_07%20005.jpg)
(http://forums.bateau2.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_aquasport_july_27_07%20006.jpg)
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Good tips. 8)
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She looks good man... I think you posted on Fs forum about my boat the 1977 222 it was a seafoam green, give me a call if you have any questions about weight and so forth. dave 941-705-1327
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Yes, that was me on the FSFF asking about the sole measurement.
just more fairing of the deck, expect to hear a lot about fairing :D :? in the future...
(http://gallery.bateau2.com/albums/userpics/12155/normal_aquasport_August_2_07%20005.jpg)
(http://gallery.bateau2.com/albums/userpics/12155/normal_aquasport_August_2_07%20002.jpg)
(http://forums.bateau2.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_aquasport_August_2_07%20007.jpg)
(http://forums.bateau2.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_aquasport_August_2_07%20008.jpg)
Im thinking about this for the rubrail. Stainless with vinyl insert and backing to absorb shock - no dents. I may be able to match the color of the insert with th non-skid color 8)
(http://www.tacomarine.com/ccp51/media/images/site/s11-1950new.gif)
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More faring work and some work on the hatch lip mold.
Rolled on a thin coat of epoxy tinted with blue pigment, let cure, sanded with 60 grit. We later applied coat of white primer. After the primer dries we will sand it and the high spots will stand out (dark).
(http://forums.bateau2.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_aquasport_8.09.07%20001.jpg)
(http://forums.bateau2.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_aquasport_8.09.07%20002.jpg)
Rolled extra primer onto the boat. You can never be sure how fair your surface is until you get an even white coat on. The majority of this primer will be sanded off and then will go back to quickfair to fill in what needs more filling. Quick Fair is epoxy, the primer is epoxy, there is no problem going over the primer with the quick fair :)
It looks real nice.....
(http://forums.bateau2.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_aquasport_8.09.07%20003.jpg)
(http://forums.bateau2.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_aquasport_8.09.07%20005.jpg)
Until you get this close :shock: :shock: :shock: Just need more work and it will be prefect :)
(http://forums.bateau2.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_aquasport_8.09.07%20006.jpg)
Look at the sides of the boat (between the frames). You will notice for the first fairing we used a mix of our blended filler and Marinepoxy - its the dark purple/brown surface.
(http://forums.bateau2.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_aquasport_8.09.07%20008.jpg)
After sanding the first fairing, we go to Quick Fair, QF is the light tan material. There is nothing wrong with using QF on the entire surface. We just like to get the big areas filled with our own blend, then save the QF for the last. QF is better than what you can mix yourself.
(http://forums.bateau2.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_aquasport_8.09.07%20009.jpg)
(http://forums.bateau2.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_aquasport_8.09.07%20010.jpg)
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"dusted" the port side deck with quick dry spray primer (over the white primer from the day before).
(http://forums.bateau2.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_aquasport_8.10.07%20001.jpg)
(http://forums.bateau2.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_aquasport_8.10.07%20002.jpg)
Using a 30" fairing board, we sand the deck exposing the highs and lows. If you do not use a long board, you will just sand the highs lower and also sand the lows lower. The idea is that the long board spans over the lows and only removes from the highs. If you are to have any shot at a perfect finish, you should use a fairing board. We sell the one we use (3M hook and loop), or you can build a less fancy one from thin plywood (do a search of the forum to find the thread where we show how to do this)
This is the very same spot as we showed yesterday. (BEFORE)
(http://forums.bateau2.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_aquasport_8.09.07%20006.jpg)
(AFTER)
(http://forums.bateau2.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_aquasport_8.11.07%20002.jpg)
you can now "read" the surface as you would a topographical map :) The very high spots are where you see fairing and/or glass (far left side of picture). The large spot in the middle where you can still see the gray spray primer mist is the low spot. The plain white is where we sanded just enough off to remove the spray primer. Next we will fill the lows with more Quick Fair
Also did more work on the hatch lip mold. Basically we are fairing it in the same way as the deck. With the low angle shot you can really see the highs and lows. The mold will require more work until its good enough to pull parts from...
(http://forums.bateau2.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_aquasport_8.10.07%20005.jpg)
(http://forums.bateau2.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_aquasport_8.10.07%20006.jpg)
These are the hatch covers, now being faired - they are about finished, next step will be primer. I am so glad I did not go the pre-made hatch route. These babies are going to be slick
(http://forums.bateau2.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_aquasport_8.10.07%20003.jpg)[/img]
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Do you plan on making these hatch covers and other such parts available for purchase from BoatBuilderCentral?
I could see a niche market for things such as hatch covers, livewells, enclosed transoms, etc. that you have molds for.
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We may sell them, if for no other reason than to help pay for the labor of what we have in the boat so far. We do not want to become a composite manufacturer. :wink:
I can tell you this, I would have paid for them :D I could not find anyone who sells such an item.
Will probably make them from Biax and vinyester, then glue them with epoxy glue. Miter a 90 degree for the turns - or make one mold of a 90 degree turn and use it for all the corners, dont know yet.
JOEL
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Shine, I will take a set of hatches... seriously. Let's chat.
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With all these projects coming along we all seem to have backed into practically resurrecting a somewhat dispersed classic Aquasport factory.
Progress looks great from here Shine! Let me know when to ship a set of 22-2 badges down.
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Shine, I will take a set of hatches... seriously. Let's chat.
They are just drains/lips. The hatches are the cut out. If you want some drain/lip lengths, I can send you some. Lets see how mine turn out first :D
We are are bale to spend a few hours on the fairing yesterday and today. Does not look much different in pictures, but its getting smooth 8)
I think Im going to put her on the trailer next week. Then we are going to glass down the leaningpost/live well and the console.
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They are just drains/lips. The hatches are the cut out. If you want some drain/lip lengths, I can send you some. Lets see how mine turn out first :D
Understood. I can easily make myself some lids. PM me with some details please...
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back on the trailer...
(http://forums.bateau2.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_aquasport_8.22.07%20001.jpg)
Put the console in the boat, just for a picture...
(http://gallery.bateau2.com/albums/userpics/12155/normal_aquasport_8.21.07%20005.jpg)
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Lookin' good!
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Progress is a good thing.
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Shine.... what are the deminsions of your fuel tank and where did you get it?
Dave
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(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_11.22.06%20008.jpg)
66 gallons. I have lost my scratch pad with the dimensions. I was lucky to find one surplus that fit really well without sacrificing capacity.
I dont think my dimentions would help much though, my sole height and sole thickness are not original. I bought it down the road in Ft. Pierce from Marine Liquidators
(http://209.190.4.227/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_12.07.06%20013%7E0.jpg)
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Shine-
I know you added material to your stringers and bulkheads (yellowish white) to increase sole to stringer bonds... what material did you use? I was thinking I might follow suit.
Gracias.
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rich,
Those are called "cleats" and they can be made of anything that is stif and will bond will with epoxy, in this case i used what was left from the 2" thick transom foam. BTW 2" is overkill, a 1" cleat is plenty. We specify 3/4" wood stock for cleats on most of our wood/epoxy/glass boat designs
If at that time I had these nice composite brackets (used for the underside of the hull/deck joint) , I would have used long lengths of them for cleats....
(http://gallery.bateau2.com/albums/userpics/12155/normal_aquasport_5.31.07%20020.jpg)
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That's a very good idea also. I'll look back at your post and I may fabricate some of those for myself... I would definitely like to increase the bonding surface of my stringers / sole.
Thanks.
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Shine... check your PM.
8)
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Shine... I checked out marine liqiudators they are good peeps. Called them on thurs with size needed they went and check their inventory called me back in hour and what do you know tank here next day. Plus it saved me couple hundred bucks rather than having one made mine is 56 gallons and I went with a poly tank.
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Dave, glad it worked out.
Richard, I do not see a PM ?
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I sent you one... don't understand. I just want to get some of that hatch channel from you.
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Rich, check your PM "Sent" and "Outbox" to see what is there.
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Hey remember me :D
Gluing up the the hatch lips, which have a drain built into them. The pieces are made on a mold, they we will fit together with a 45 degree miter cut (which is filled with epoxy glue).
Here is the profile.....
(http://forums.bateau2.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_aquasport_hatch_drain_lip%20002.jpg)
Here is the first piece being glued up...
(http://forums.bateau2.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_aquasport_hatch_drain_lip%20001.jpg)
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Nice! I will need to figure that out for my boat soon.
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Making scupper drain tubes from fiberglass sock. They end up looking like this...
(http://forums.bateau2.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_Aquasport_11.13.07%20008.jpg)
They will run from the recesses in the sole (see below) to the transom.
(http://forums.bateau2.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_01.09.07%20004.jpg)
We made them by waxing (and mold release) a 1" diameter (outside diameter) plastic rod, then laminated biax sock over it to make the tube. Ant more than 18" would be very difficult to get off :!:
(http://forums.bateau2.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_Aquasport_11.13.07%20001.jpg)
(http://forums.bateau2.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_Aquasport_11.13.07%20002.jpg)
(http://forums.bateau2.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_Aquasport_11.13.07%20003.jpg)
(http://forums.bateau2.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_Aquasport_11.13.07%20004.jpg)
(http://forums.bateau2.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_Aquasport_11.13.07%20005.jpg)
(http://forums.bateau2.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_Aquasport_11.13.07%20007.jpg)
for this tube we used three layers of the sock.
We are getting the leaning post/live well ready. We epoxy in 90 degree brackets (same as what we made earlier) to the sole. The leaning well will mount to the brackets, and we will glass a little from the inside. On the outside, it will be a smooth fillet transition.
(http://forums.bateau2.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_Aquasport_11.13.07%20009.jpg)
also, the hatches are basically finished, and the bottom of the hull has been sanded down to original gelcoat. We will roll the entire bottom with epoxy to waterproof it forever (no blisters)
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Nice work as usual. What scuppers do you plan on using?
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Dont know - does not matter to me. Personally, I do not like the ping pong types; they seem to always be clogged, I prefer the flapper type.
I know self bailing is very close with these boats when you get a few people in the back plus a motor set back on a bracket 8) soooooo....... The tubes are 1" inside diameter, so they can be plugged from the inside with 1" rubber drain plugs :wink: to keep any water out if the boat is over loaded.
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btw, that was not a loaded question... :wink:
I am just trying to figure out what I am going to use... thinking the TH Marine inlines would be good...
Thoughts?
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I dont have a picture, but the ones I have in mind are the simple flapper, that mount on the outside of the transom, covering the hole of the drain tube.
Those tubes will be glassed though the transom and through the bulkhead,
Mounting the leaning post today :)
After sanding all the old bottom paint off, we only found one small area of damage - I was pretty happy about the condition of the gel coat.
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I think I am going to order a set of the TH Marine inline scuppers... probably will not work for your application though.
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I like the idea of those inline flappers, Im just not sure if they would hold up overtime with sticks, leaves, hook, and whatever else gets in there
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We have been fairing a little here and there on the deck. The leaning post is glassed in. We put two coats of the epoxy primer on the hull and deck (light gray). This new primer has incredible coverage - this is the before and after of only 2 coats...
(http://forums.bateau2.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_Aquasport_12.10.07%20002.jpg)
(http://forums.bateau2.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_Aquasport_12.10.07%20003.jpg)
AFTER
(http://forums.bateau2.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_Aquasport_12.10.07%20006.jpg)
(http://forums.bateau2.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_Aquasport_12.10.07%20005.jpg)
(http://forums.bateau2.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_Aquasport_12.10.07%20007.jpg)
(http://forums.bateau2.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12155/normal_Aquasport_12.10.07%20008.jpg)
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Very nice... look forward to more!
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lookin good, can't wait to see it done
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Need an update! :D
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will get some new pictures up this week. Console is glassed down as of Friday. This week we fair the sole and prime the rest of the boat. hardware is in hand :D
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(http://gallery.bateau2.com/albums/userpics/12155/normal_aquasport_01.14.08%20003.jpg)
(http://gallery.bateau2.com/albums/userpics/12155/normal_aquasport_01.14.08%20001.jpg)
(http://gallery.bateau2.com/albums/userpics/12155/normal_aquasport_01.14.08%20004.jpg)
Hit the inside with high build epoxy primer. Sanding it now to reveal the very last imperfections. More fairing today - then the last of the primer :D
Then on to fitting hardware before paint.
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So have you guys decided to keep this thing given all the work you have into it?
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Its not the right hull for east central Florida, or else I would keep it for myself. Someone on the west/gulf coast would get much more enjoyment from the boat than I could over here.
Besides, I need room to build a new poling skiff :)
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Looks Nice. :thumright: :thumright:
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Looking good, keep up the progress. What kind of baitwell is that? One you salvaged or built?
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its an older livewell that we bought from the the surplus place in Ft. Pierce - gave it some TLC and it worked out "well" :lol:
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Fitting hardware.
I wanted to keep the deck super clean, so for the stern cleats we used hause pipes and kept the 6" SS cleats mounted to the rear bulkhead.
(http://gallery.bateau2.com/albums/userpics/12155/normal_aqusport_01.22.08%20001.jpg)
Bow cleat is a large pop up cleat, with stud mounts (no visible fasteners).
(http://gallery.bateau2.com/albums/userpics/12155/normal_aqusport_01.22.08%20003.jpg)
The hatched get nice SS twist latches
(http://gallery.bateau2.com/albums/userpics/12155/normal_aqusport_01.22.08%20004.jpg)
(http://gallery.bateau2.com/albums/userpics/12155/normal_aqusport_01.22.08%20002.jpg)
I still have to find the right rod holders for the gunnels. Will do the traditions 4 rod holders plus a couple more forward (for drift fishing).
Rubrail is ordered with any luck we will get to paint next week. I think we will do the outside hull/gunnel/and coming with a Hatters White (sterling LPU), then use a System three paint for the inside.
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Looking good Shine 8)
Too bad there isn't a way to recess those hinges in areas where you can step on them - I just hate to step on those barefooted - ouch!!
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Too bad there isn't a way to recess those hinges in areas where you can step on them - I just hate to step on those barefooted - ouch!!
They are not as shape as they look. I have the same hinges on my flats boat - 14 of them on the deck :shock:
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We put the second coat of Sterling topcoat on the outside/gunnels this morning :D Gloss is unreal :!: Will get some nice pictures up next week. This will have to do for now....
(http://gallery.bateau2.com/albums/userpics/12155/normal_aqusport_01.31.08%20010.jpg)
(http://gallery.bateau2.com/albums/userpics/12155/normal_aqusport_01.31.08%20007.jpg)
(http://gallery.bateau2.com/albums/userpics/12155/normal_aqusport_01.31.08%20009.jpg)
Went with a Matterhorn White for the hull, and I plan to accent with another color for the non-skid. Any suggestions. :?: :?:
BTW, the rubrail is just 1.75" Taco standard. The nice stainless ones I found were really too fat - they are intended for BIG boats.
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Very nice... very nice.
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Shine, that great looking paint job is from the roll and tip method?
:shock:
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Shine, that great looking paint job is from the roll and tip method?
:shock:
Yes, and it took less than one quart of paint (with 1 pint catalyst) :D
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Looks Great Shine 8)
Did you have to do anything between coats 1 and 2?
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Looks Great Shine 8)
Did you have to do anything between coats 1 and 2?
Fpr this paint system you have up to 24 hours for a second coat before you sand. We will give her a sanding with 320 grit, then one last thin coat. But that will be after we get the inside finished. :D
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Shine, that great looking paint job is from the roll and tip method?
:shock:
Yes, and it took less than one quart of paint (with 1 pint catalyst) :D
I showed this comment to my wife. She found it hard to believe you used less than 3 pints for a coat of paint (especially using a roller). I tried to convince her you knew what you were saying but she was still skeptical. :roll:
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Shine, that great looking paint job is from the roll and tip method?
:shock:
Yes, and it took less than one quart of paint (with 1 pint catalyst) :D
I showed this comment to my wife. She found it hard to believe you used less than 3 pints for a coat of paint (especially using a roller). I tried to convince her you knew what you were saying but she was still skeptical. :roll:
had we not spent the time with the primer - it could have taken 2 quarts.
3 quarts would be way too much unless you sand half of each coat off before applying the next one.
This whole thing sounds like its setting up to be a Huck Finn type bet.... "Oh yeah, well bring your boat over here and Ill show you how I can paint it with one quart :wink: "
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This whole thing sounds like its setting up to be a Huck Finn type bet.... "Oh yeah, well bring your boat over here and Ill show you how I can paint it with one quart :wink: "
Dude, you figured me out :!: :P
Actually I'm jazzed about how far a quart of that paint will go. The misses on the other hand thinks about paint in context to textured walls. More on the painter than the wall. You know what I mean? :oops:
Of course if you insist, it's not that far from San Antonio to Vero Beach.
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these paints (2 part LPU's) go on as thin as water, well maybe its closer to chicken broth - but you get the idea. There is no way to put that much on without it all running off. :)
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What paint are you going to use below the water line?
Maybe Interlux VC Performance Epoxy?
This is non blistering and is not antifouling but very hard and shine'y :lol:
It is used on trailer and storage boats as well as on racing sailboats and other performance vessels where anitfouling bottom paint is not needed but a tough finish is.
Kevin
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the entire bottom is going to get a couple coats of epoxy resin - this will seal it up and protect it from osmosis. Then over that, we will use an ablative type bottom paint to protect from marine growth.
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She is basically finished. All that is left is the rubrail (which we have bought, just need to go on).
The boat is for sale, and we will leave her in this finished, but not rigged state for whomever is the next owner.
Im very happy how the boat turned out. Here are some new photos, there are many more in the gallery (http://gallery.bateau2.com/thumbnails.php?album=495&page=35). This is the link to the gallery:
(http://gallery.bateau2.com/albums/userpics/12155/normal_aquasport_3.13.08%20015.jpg)
(http://gallery.bateau2.com/albums/userpics/12155/normal_aquasport_3.13.08%20013.jpg)
(http://gallery.bateau2.com/albums/userpics/12155/normal_aquasport_3.13.08%20011.jpg)
(http://gallery.bateau2.com/albums/userpics/12155/normal_aquasport_3.13.08%20007.jpg)
(http://gallery.bateau2.com/albums/userpics/12155/normal_aquasport_3.13.08%20008.jpg)
(http://gallery.bateau2.com/albums/userpics/12155/normal_aquasport_3.13.08%20006.jpg)
(http://gallery.bateau2.com/albums/userpics/12155/normal_aquasport_3.13.08%20005.jpg)
(http://gallery.bateau2.com/albums/userpics/12155/normal_aquasport_3.13.08%20004.jpg)
(http://gallery.bateau2.com/albums/userpics/12155/normal_aquasport_3.13.08%20003.jpg)
(http://gallery.bateau2.com/albums/userpics/12155/normal_aquasport_3.13.08%20001.jpg)
(http://gallery.bateau2.com/albums/userpics/12155/normal_aquasport_3.13.08%20002.jpg)
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Looks very nice and I have learned many things through this rebuild - thank you.
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Wow! Shine, you do some great work. That boat has a level of craftsmanship damn few will see or know. Rmember where you started:
(http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j7/GoneFission/normal_july1720005.jpg) (http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j7/GoneFission/normal_aquasport_3130820007.jpg)
Hard to believe it's the same boat! I hope whomever gets her appreciates this fine piece of work and uses her to her best advantage. Thanks for taking the Classic Aquasport community along for the voyage - we've all learned from your work and advice.
Good luck with the sale - the price seems amazing for the level of work and quality of materials that went into her - truly a custom classic!
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It amazes me that I can easily perform some really cool, life saving medical procedures but I can't figure out how to post a damn picture or two. Anyone have any pointers?
I purchased Joel's rebuilt (and yes, I'm a bit biased) better than new Flatback. He was great to deal with an more than tolerated my crazy schedule and incessant questions. I've had lots of fun learning about how to put one of these things together...though I must admit I'm not doing any of it myself. Just reading up on things and running around trying to find good deals on stuff is exhausting. I can't imagine how much patience and skill some of the folks on this forum must posses (Slippery and Lil'Richard come to mind). And all the while these folks are willing to take time out of their schedules to answer questions or give advice/input. This forum is definitely a great resource.
The boat should be completed in about 2 weeks. It has a full folding tower, 2007 Merc 150 optimax with 5 yr warranty (new in box), trim tabs, Abyss U/W light, Porta Bracket, 8' Power pole, salt water wash down, separate fresh water wash down, Dual batteries in console with battery switch/combiner/charger, 24 V minn kota fully auto trolling motor with dual batteries in bow with charger, tilting hydraulic helm on console, decent stereo system, Led lighting, flood lights, and I'm sure there are a few other things I'm forgetting...oh yeah, lots of rod holders.
It will definitely need a little touching up once the work is completed and will then be getting a bow dodger and full cover. I've got some pics of the progress but don't seem to be able to get them posted.
I also wanted to say thanks to Joel and to everyone else that has tolerated my numerous questions as the boat rigging has been underway.
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I managed to get 4 pictures posted to the member's gallery. This picture posting thing is making me feel mighty inadequate.
http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showgallery.php?cat=500&ppuser=132
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Boat looks awesome man. Congrats, you are almost there. Dales tower looks really sweet. How was he to work with? I was starting to wonder how things were coming on it, hadn't heard anything in a while.
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Found this link while cleaning up so placed it here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cg8l1Y2pQQU
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I wanted to bring this thread back to life and say hello all at the same time. This thread along with the step by step on Bateau2.com is the reason I bought this boat when I saw it come up for sale. Its current state does not do the work they did justice, I purchased this boat 2 weeks ago and already have plans set to have the hull re sanded, repaired in a few areas, and gel coated. Here is a pic of me picking it up in Key West and one at the Palmetto boat ramp.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_0183.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16391&title=just-arrived-home-with-the-boat&cat=500)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_16331.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16399&title=dual-power-poles&cat=500)
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Good looking rig!
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Congrats on the purchase - she was rebuilt like a tank.
Joel, the original rebuilder from Bateau, is a member of the family here. I'm sure he can advise you on what to use to bring her back.
http://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?board=54.0
The boat was painted so I'm not sure you'll be able to gelcoat it unless you take all the paint off - Joel will be able to advise you.
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I hope she gives you plenty of happy fishing trips. Please please please do not use gel coat on her!
I rebuilt the boat when I was associated with the other company, now I am Gulfstream composites, the sponsor here. If you need any help putting her back in shape please ask any questions.
Joel
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Thank you guys for the welcome. I am very excited about owning this boat and bringing the life back to it. I'm also very happy to find the person who built the boat, I also found the person who rigged the boat on another forum. Joel, just curious, why paint over gel coat?
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Paint is superior in almost any way you can measure to gelcoat. The boat is already painted and has an epoxy primer. To get gelcoat to bond you would need to remove the paint and primer. To re-paint, you only need to sand the paint a little so the new paint has some tooth to bite on.
For the bottom, you can use the same paint so long as the hull does not sit for extended periods in the water (weeks), or use the VC performance paint for the bottom (its epoxy)
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Wanting to keep this rebuild going and start where the previous owners left off. My plans are to have a few areas on the hull fixed, sanded ,and then have the hull painted. Once I have it back from that being done I will re work some of the electronics and audio. The chart plotter needs updating and I would like to add a trolling motor. The two rear speakers are blown and need to be replaced, I'd also like to get rid of the two bazooka style speakers on the console. The last project I am still back and forth on is removing the tower. I've only had the boat out a few times with the tower and it almost seems more hassle than its worth…we'll see.
Anyway since I both have no business painting or have the time to do it here is a picture dropping the boat off to Ed at Epic Marine Manufacturing. I will update as I get pictures of the progress.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_00413.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16390&title=purchase-in-key-west&cat=500)
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So its been a few months and I have got most of my projects complete. The hard work was all done with this boat and it was really just the work of personalizing it for my style of boating/fishing that needed to be done. Ive uploaded to pictures to show the progress. The first one still has the full tower which I was still undecided on (especially after trying to catch bait at the skyway). The second is how the boat looks today. I modified the tower and converted it to a half tower. After making the new removable stand which spans across the two sections of ladder I only lost a height of 2 feet of sightline, and approximately 3 feet of clearance. The best part is no more unfolding and folding!
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_0568.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16392&title=full-tower-pic-with-fresh-paint-job&cat=500)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_1145.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16395&title=half-tower-conversion&cat=500)
Ive upgraded the electronics to the new Simrad GO7, I've added a Motorguide Xi5, replaced the rear speakers and put in a new 1600 rule tournament live well pump. I also recently added a recessed cast net bucket/storage in the forward center hatch. I am loving this boat more and more. I will keep the Mercury 150 optimax until it blows (only has 350 hours) and then the plan is to replace it with a suzuki 200 or 225.
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Beautiful boat!
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Very NICE!!
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love the color. that's becoming EPIC's signature color. anymore pictures of the tower? I have a halftower on my 222 and absolutely love it- wayyy easier than a full-folding tower in my opinion.
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Here are a couple more pictures of the tower conversion. I made it as simple as I could so for about $30 and an hours worth of work it could be converted back to a full tower. The floor of the tower was removed along with one aluminum support brace that supported the floor. Once that was out of the way the upper control station was mounted using the piece of aluminum I had cut as an internal brace. The seat was then removed from the old upper tower and was fitted to the new opening. An old piece of marine fabric was cut to size and sown to cover the hole where the floor used to be. It has snaps on each side so it can be easily removed when the upper station is in use. As for something to stand on a new removable stand was built out of two pieces of boxed aluminum and the old floor from the upper tower. It stretches across the tower from side to side and rests on top of the "ladder" braces. This is easily removable as well so when the upper station is not being utilized it stays in the front storage compartment out of the way and leaving an unobstructed view while driving the boat from the lower station.
(http://i389.photobucket.com/albums/oo333/indysti/IMG_0584_zpsqtvg9pu8.jpg) (http://s389.photobucket.com/user/indysti/media/IMG_0584_zpsqtvg9pu8.jpg.html)
(http://i389.photobucket.com/albums/oo333/indysti/IMG_0583_zpszc9vsfvv.jpg) (http://s389.photobucket.com/user/indysti/media/IMG_0583_zpszc9vsfvv.jpg.html)
(http://i389.photobucket.com/albums/oo333/indysti/IMG_0585_zpsqcrjsbql.jpg) (http://s389.photobucket.com/user/indysti/media/IMG_0585_zpsqcrjsbql.jpg.html)
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Here is a few new pictures of the boat. Its been getting more use now that I have decided to keep it. Still some things that need attention but my list has dwindled way down. I am flush mounting the simrad this week to clean the console up a little, and I need to inspect the trim tabs as I believe the pump has failed.
(http://i389.photobucket.com/albums/oo333/indysti/IMG_1185_zpsmiivuapm.jpg) (http://s389.photobucket.com/user/indysti/media/IMG_1185_zpsmiivuapm.jpg.html)
(http://i389.photobucket.com/albums/oo333/indysti/IMG_1145_zpsdxjyzqfd.jpg) (http://s389.photobucket.com/user/indysti/media/IMG_1145_zpsdxjyzqfd.jpg.html)
(http://i389.photobucket.com/albums/oo333/indysti/IMG_1146_zpszcbk2nql.jpg) (http://s389.photobucket.com/user/indysti/media/IMG_1146_zpszcbk2nql.jpg.html)
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What model rub rail is on this boat?
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I use to live in that neighborhood. boat looks good!
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What model rub rail is on this boat?
Maybe Shine can answer that for you, he put it on during the original build in 2007.
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I use to live in that neighborhood. boat looks good!
Thanks, yeah that neighborhood is nice…i live south in Lakewood Ranch but when I used to live in Parrish I would put in there every time.
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Finally built the tower stand and then decided to flush mount the Simrad.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_1248.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16397&title=console-w-2f-half-tower-and-stand&cat=500)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_0584.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16393&title=half-tower&cat=500)
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Time for a re-power on the flatback. I am leaning towards a Suzuki 200. Anyone have experience with this motor on the boat and if so should I save myself a grand and go with the 175?
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Forgot I never updated this thread that the tower has been removed. For my style of fishing in the Tampa bay area this was the right move. I miss how the tower made the boat look but it is much more functional now.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_15631.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16398&title=tower-removal&cat=500)
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Well I took the plunge and repowered the boat. Brand new Suzuki 200. Other than a quick lake test when I purchased it I haven't had it out so I can't comment yet on the performance differences but man is it quiet! I also had the dash cleaned up with two new dash panels and a new layout for gauges, switches and the binnacle.
I am currently working on getting the trim tabs working again. Replacing the old insta-trim motor with a new bennett motor. I didnt want to mess with switching the actuators and tabs out since whatever I purchased would mount differently.
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Looks good - congrats!
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Nice 222... I'm putting a trolling motor on mine... and expect to mount it just like yours... 60 in shaft looks minimally acceptable. What length is yours? And how far under water is the motor or the blade?
Thanks
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Delayed update to this thread but I repowered with a Suzuki 200 last December. It’s been a rough year with my work schedule but the wife and I just passed 20 hours on the new motor and the boat is running great. I also recently replumbed the livewell and put a new thru hull fitting for the high speed pickup and a new ball valve.
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Nice 222... I'm putting a trolling motor on mine... and expect to mount it just like yours... 60 in shaft looks minimally acceptable. What length is yours? And how far under water is the motor or the blade?
Thanks
You have probably figured out your trolling motor purchase already but if not...mine is the 60” model. With calm water the prop is under probably 18”. I can raise it up quiet abit while in skinny water so it’s not eating grass without an issue. Only time I ever have any issues is when it’s very choppy and I’m using it at the skyway while getting bait. It will sometimes pop out of the water if to many people on the boat are towards the back.