Classic AquaSport
Aquasport Model Rebuilds, Mods, Updates and Refreshes => Osprey Style Hull Rebuilds => 22-2 Rebuilds => Topic started by: prudog45 on April 09, 2014, 07:29:14 PM
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INTRODUCTION AND SUMMARY:
So it is about a year after I joined this board, please stay with me I can get wordy.Its my way, I can help it. Regardless the members of this forum Months later with much help of many on this board I bought a 1975 Aquasport 222 from Sandman (he was/is a member but I'm not sure he frequents these pages much as he was moving into a Wellcraft). Today is also the 1st Anniversary of my Fathers early passing from Esophageal cancer related to Agent Orange exposure while he served as a door gunner with "The Big Red One" in Vietnam. I honestly didn't remember this day was one year until my girlfriend told me. I mention it as It is in my signature and I'm 43 in June and I miss him everyday. I your parents are alive cherish your time with them. My dad was diagnosed and gone it seemed in a blink. Truth said it is very true statement that the best things in this life can not be bought. And although we on this board share a common interest in our boats, they really mean nothing if we can't share them with someone. At least that is IMHO.
Ok, I apologize for that, it was a small mention of this day in remembrance of a great man, and how April 7th will never be the same for me. Regardless I will now get to Day 1. It took me nearly a year, but I got my boat back from the transom re builder and boat painter. I will comply to the rules and not slam anyone on this board. Lets just say I was way over due to get my boat back, and the friend that did it will not be joining CAS. Good guy, good conversation, and pretty good work. In conclusion in this small introduction post I promise to stay more on topic from now on, but my intention is to write this to help guys like me. Guys that many not know what to expect, and hopefully I can make recommendations from the mistakes, or scares I make along the way) I have many to thank but a select few, like fellow North Carolinian, Gran398 has been of great help. Regardles thank you all that have responded to my post.
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Good luck Ryan in your "journey". May your Father rest in peace.
Now start re-building! :salut:
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Ryan, I'm the same age as you. I lost my father to pancreatic cancer when I was 24. Oddly enough he passed on his fathers birthday January 17th. I remember the first anniversary of his passing was very hard for me. In the years since some of the anniversaries have been easier to bear while others were harder. So January 17th is a date that is never the same for me for two reasons. I want you to know that even after 19 years, I still think of him every day. I remember after he passed people were trying to make me feel better by saying the pain would go away. Well I knew then as I do now they were full of BS. The pain for me is still there. The empty hole inside is still there. Time helped me bear with it and live with it and move on, but it never really goes away. I don't want that to sound discouraging, but for me thats how I feel. I think one of the reasons I have embraced boating and fishing is because of him. He loved to go fishing, and he took me fishing several times as a kid. There are many times I think of my father when I'm out on my boat. I know he would have really enjoyed going out on it whenever he could. God bless you and your dad.
I'm glad you have your boat back from the painter. I'm sure you will make many new friends on this forum!
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Welcome to the site. We would love to see pics of your project. Special thanks and prayers to you, your father, and your family for all the sacrifices made stemming from protecting the American Flag. I appreciate all of our service persons and the families that fight with them.
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Thank you for your well Wishes. It is a sad day, but also a bit of a joy as I did start my aS 222 rebuild. Apparently my second post related to my topic didn't make it through.
POST 1 (April 7th 2014 - Deck Removal - NOTE: Transom and Paint completed prior by outside professional)
Ok well I decided that I would go ahead and use a skill saw with a guide so I couldn't cut to close. It worked fine, what didn't work was I should of got a new blade and one more like a multi purpose blade. My cut was smoking and blade dulled before I even reaching the transom, starting at the casting deck. I got it all cut with minimal trouble although around the cable trough was a bit tough. If I was do this again I would of used a dualsaw with a fiberglass/ wood blade due to space. And to make myself less nervous about hitting the hull.
I was trucking along fine and then ran into where I may need a pointer or two. I have to release the hull from the stringers. I tried a sawzaw with a long blade and couldn't make a dent. I decided to line up the left and right of the stringers and use a chalk-line so I could cut these out of what I was going to pull up. I could then work on the stringers with a lot more space. Well this is where day 1 turned into quite a site. I popped myself with a 6x4 post, busted my lip open, and ended up with 4 stitches in my mouth. Nice start :-)
1. Any pointers on removing the deck from the stringers? Special tool, longer sawzaw blade? I've accepted that the floor is going to be trashed now.
2. As I left the casting deck in tact, is there a trick to getting the wet foam from the stringers under it without removing it
I'm honestly amazed now when I seem some of the rebuild picks and people have just removed the floor no issue. I think I could be looking at quite a job just cutting it the deck of the stringers, I have no room.
Pics will come soon, not a lot to show now except a 222 with the floor still in.
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Ok I'm about to get slammed here for not searching enough, and posting something covered in a forum somewhere. However, I have found an issue that I need to rectify anyway, I can't see any of the pics within Post. Noted this last year after about 3 months of posting.
Regardless I'm back, roughly 10 months later. I bought Sandman's 75 AS 22.2 and knew right from the get go I had to replace the transom. I hired that out, then the guy that did the transom offered to do an outside paint job - since he had to paint the transom. So I elected just to get it done. Well he had it much much longer than I had hoped. I finally got it back last week.
Anyway, to the point, I'm replacing the floor myself, and maybe the front step up locker and fish-box/storage section. The cable channel will come out and I'll run PVC pipes from under helm to transom (Probably two - one to left and one to right). The plastic gas tank that was put in I believe I will replace as it was put in backwards and foamed in. It was made to work as it was, but Im too OCD to let it go. My OCD is expensive at times. I pulled all cables and wires out (No Good), I pulled out all hoses (No good), I'm either replacing the helm, or re-glassing it. I have that all covered I believe.
Question 1: Can I just remove the lower section of flooring and decide on the step up storage area after ithe lower floor is removed, or should this all be removed at once. The old floor will be scrapped for sure. But the storage section might need saved for a reuse, I need to see what I'm dealing with. I'm going to uncap stringers and pull the foam out, then re-foam with closed cell. - of course then re-glass tops on stringers.
Question 2: When removing the floor my challenge looks to be the cable channel, maybe it's easier that it appears. But if I set my saw to cut about 2 inches from gunnel, I'm not sure I can cut this out. Is it easier than I'm thinking, will this remove as easy as the rest of the floor?
Question 3: I will be putting in a gas tank, recommendations on size? Or Links? It appears that they threw this one in, through some pieces of un-glassed plywood in so it would set on these, assuming to leave drainage open. I'll pull these and glass a section for it to sit. But the access panel is so large, has everyone been making the access panel as large. I like it, but it surely makes for some super reinforcements. I thought a big piece of thick mahogany would do well, shined up stained, and polyurethane'd, probably have to put not skid tape on walk on sections. Now bare in mind this is what sounds good, as I would like to build a helm pod out of mahogany and make all front hatch doors from mahogany. But Im talking a lot about wants, and wants don't get me fishing. So any and all ideas are welcomed.
PS. I know this topic is probably covered 100 times, so I am sorry for the re-post of an already posted discussion. However, I couldn't find any specific, and as I have to start Wed - it's at a friends boat shop - he's allowing me to do the work there. I don't want to take advantage. So I need to move on it ASAP. He's not going to rush me off, he's not like that. But I would like to be making progress as opposed to scratching my head.
So even if you provide me the post that discuss this, I am very thankful. Then I can troubleshoot why I cant see forum pictures.
Thanks to Cmitch94 http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/member.php?uid=70828 he had the picture showing almost exactly what Im looking at. Minus the fact that my transom is new and raised 5 inches see below.
http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=6631&title=aq10&cat=2
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Hi PD, welcome back. I'll try to answer what I can below.
1) There are a couple ways to tackle what you want to do.
a) the best way would be to pop the whole liner out as one, flip it and recore the bottom. Most of us don't know how to do this (including me) so we move to the next option.
b) cut out the floor and leave a 2" ledge around perimeter to lay the new floor on. That's what I did the first time I replaced the floor in my 170. Worked fine.
c) Cutting the top off the stringers is a normal way to de-foam them, you'll have to do some finagling to get the foam out from the portions of the stringers that extend under the casting deck. Been done before here and documented.
2) The "trough" is something you will have to cut out separately and you'll have to fabricate a ledge or glass the new floor to the side of the liner. What I did was left it where it was and added another layer of flooring on top of it. If you want it gone, then you'll have to cut it out.
3) Poly tanks are pretty rugged, can you reuse it? Pull it, check it out and see if it is still usable. Orient it the way it should be and it could save you some major denaro.
I would stay away from exposed wood on the rebuild. It will be a PITA for the rest of the time you own it. The tank cover may be too big or seem to be because it has to end in the middle of the stringers. You won't know until you pull it apart.
Now for the "not being able to see pictures" problem. You can't see any? If you go to the gallery can you see them? What kind of device are you using? PC, Mac, smartphone?
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However, I have found an issue that I need to rectify anyway, I can't see any of the pics within Post. Noted this last year after about 3 months of posting.
I'm guessing you are experiencing trouble posting a photo(s) in your post :scratch:
There are a number of "stickies" on photo posting in each forum. We can help if we know what you need. I read through your prior posts and see no mention of this before (but I might have missed something). We certainly want to see your rebuild and that includes any photos of work you already completed on the transom. Feel free to PM me if you have any questions on same.
Thanks and good luck. :thumleft:
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Thank you RickK and Capt Bob, I think the picture problem is specific to maybe some users removing photos. I can see them in the photo gallery, but not on every post sometimes they appear as missing Xs. last summer, I was growing accustom to using gran398 (Scott's) Miss Delmarva photos for references. But I can not see one photo in his posting "Miss Delmarva Pics - at last - 1973 22-2 Rebuild". I have found it is touch and go when going through the Aquasport 222 Rebuild Post. Seems all the Flatbacks I can see their photos, but all the 12 degree deadrise 1970s AS 222 show no pics. I'm almost positive this is just a coincidence, it would make no sense otherwise. I think the way to troubleshoot this, is have someone go to gran398's "Miss Delmarva Pics - at last - 1973 22-2 Rebuild" and see if they can see pics. If not,, then I have no issue, as I can see pics other places. The only issue was I was going to print Miss Delmarva Pics - at last - 1973 22-2 Rebuild pics that I needed for reference. But you know, maybe it's time I start my forum and then write a book and make Millions, maybe even hundreds :-)
Back to the show: Rickk I must say thank you, because something I seem to keep forgetting is "K I S S" and although Im sure you know what it is, in case someone doesn't -- "Keep it Simple Stupid". Because I tend to think I have to make it better that before. But the truth is to do everything I want, I'm eatting up time and money. I believe this Wed morning I will start removing the floor with the 2" left from the gunnel. Im still concerned about the cable trough, because I don't oppose going over it, but won't I be raising my whole floor about 1/2 an inch. Ive not got under it and looked, but maybe I could use a Dremel and a 1" piece of wood and take out this side? The 1 inch piece of wood to make sure I leave one inch of floor. I'm by no means debating someone that has done it, what do I know. I just either remove it, or find another use for it. But if I find another use for it, I have to rebuild the cover. I don't like the idea of that. I did think I could see about leaving a very small part of the trough and then match it on the port side then lead both sides back to the drainage, self bailing area. But there again, Im talking like Im a fiberglass master. Nope, far from it. I understand fiberglass 60%, I have done it, but Ive only used Polyester resin and roven woven. That is my plan for all of the top (Polyester) as epoxy is just too expensive and unless I build a livewell, which I may later, Im not sure what I will get from the extra money.
AlsoI have read so many guys removing the floor and then sanding underneth, Im not sure I get this? I mean if I find some delamination, I will fix it, but besides a good power washing to see what Im dealing with, I don't see adding fiberglass over fiberglass in a boat that was built in 1975 and was still sea worthty when I bought it. I've also read about guys reinforcing their gunnels with more fiberglass, as the thickness of the 222 was very thin. Agreed, it does seem to be thin, but once again, isn't it prefered to have some flexibility in a boat (these boats were built in the 1960s and 1970s and here we are in 2014 talking about restoring them. It seems Aquasport got this build pretty right. I mean I really could throw it together and launch it next week if I didn't care about cosemetics. Problem is I do care :? If I had to do this,add glass to the gunnels, maybe one or two layers max. Thats just my thought. I do have to glass the top cap as I removed rotten wood on both sides. I'll have to redrill pole holders and such. I also have to figure out if there is an anchor locker that was hidden. The wood was removed from the underside of the bow cap. I have to replace it, but Im wondering about making an anchor locker here.
Well I have more questions than answers. You have given me what I need to get started. Granted I'm still confused about the cable trough. Anyone in the Raleigh, NC area done this before? I can surely find 24 cold ones for a drive by supervision :-) Pics to come soon with a new Post stepping through the rebuild.
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I think it's something with either your PC or your internet connection - I can see all the pictures in the Miss D thread.
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Well I bet I missing an add on. This happened to me last year, after about 3 to 4 months of joining. I thought it was a website issue. I'll switch to Chrome and Mozilla and see if that fixes it. I'll assume it's a missing add on, and IE gets flakier with every upgrade. Thanks for checking it out. Now I know.
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I use Firefox/Mozilla and have no problem. IE seems to pick and chose which PC it wants to work on. I have a PC in the family room that IE gives us fits on so I use Firefox and on the PC in my den IE works great.
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Second the FF or Chrome usage. I use Chrome, have no issues with it whatsoever. I highly recommend NOT using IE, very susceptable to attacks, malware, etc...
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I think the way to troubleshoot this, is have someone go to gran398's "Miss Delmarva Pics - at last - 1973 22-2 Rebuild" and see if they can see pics. If not,, then I have no issue, as I can see pics other places. The only issue was I was going to print Miss Delmarva Pics - at last - 1973 22-2 Rebuild pics that I needed for reference. But you know, maybe it's time I start my forum and then write a book and make Millions, maybe even hundreds <!-- s:-) -->:-)<!-- s:-) -->
OK, let's start here first.
http://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=10459.0
If you can't see these photos, the problem is on your end.
This is the reduced version (wheat separated from the chaff) of the thread you listed above. This thread has ALL the photos with descriptions, just the banter between members is removed.
Gran asked to have this done so someone (insert your name) could use his rebuild to help with their (again insert your name) own. It is 6 pages long rather than 117 pages so you can better concentrate on your rebuild. Of course the original has all the flavor, flare and flatulence along with high drama that this particular rebuild, like no other has had.
You can therefore copy the photos, in their proper order and as Gran had hoped for, gain insight into your rebuild.
Good luck.
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Flatulence!! Moi? :wink:
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Thanks everyone for your comments.
Yes I can see the link you provided Capt Bob. Of course I have 4 other pcs to troubleshoot if they don't see them. But this is awesome awesome awesome..... It is exactly what I needed, 100% ecstatic this moment. I can not express my gratitude enough!!
Tomorrow, the show is on. I will start my new forum from a newbie rebuild perspective, and try to keep up with every step / with Pics, I know this is hard, so I will hire my 16 year old to take pics (take them or don't eat :shock: LOL). I'm at least an OCD newbie. The economy is going to make a lot of us become better at taking care of things ourselves :-)
Thanks Again !!!
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Yes I can see the link you provided Capt Bob. Of course I have 4 other pcs to troubleshoot if they don't see them. But this is awesome awesome awesome..... It is exactly what I needed, 100% ecstatic this moment. I can not express my gratitude enough!!!
As always, our pleasure and remember that the idea of creating Gran's rebuild in a condensed form is just what he hoped it would be. A guide and "idea book" for a future re-builder just like yourself. :cheers:
Looks like he finally got one right. :mrgreen:
Good luck and we look forward to your rebuild. :thumright:
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Hi PD, welcome back. I'll try to answer what I can below.
1) There are a couple ways to tackle what you want to do.
a) the best way would be to pop the whole liner out as one, flip it and recore the bottom. Most of us don't know how to do this (including me) so we move to the next option.
b) cut out the floor and leave a 2" ledge around perimeter to lay the new floor on. That's what I did the first time I replaced the floor in my 170. Worked fine.
c) Cutting the top off the stringers is a normal way to de-foam them, you'll have to do some finagling to get the foam out from the portions of the stringers that extend under the casting deck. Been done before here and documented.
2) The "trough" is something you will have to cut out separately and you'll have to fabricate a ledge or glass the new floor to the side of the liner. What I did was left it where it was and added another layer of flooring on top of it. If you want it gone, then you'll have to cut it out.
3) Poly tanks are pretty rugged, can you reuse it? Pull it, check it out and see if it is still usable. Orient it the way it should be and it could save you some major denaro.
I would stay away from exposed wood on the rebuild. It will be a PITA for the rest of the time you own it. The tank cover may be too big or seem to be because it has to end in the middle of the stringers. You won't know until you pull it apart.
Now for the "not being able to see pictures" problem. You can't see any? If you go to the gallery can you see them? What kind of device are you using? PC, Mac, smartphone?
Rickk - Question:
You stated "a) the best way would be to pop the whole liner out as one, flip it and recore the bottom."
When you state this your talking about removing the old wood from the floor and putting in new marine plywood and then glassing correct? I do know how to do that, the guy helping me before had be do this to the cable trough cover and the gas tank cover. They are both just fiberglass skin now. When, you said most of us don't know how to do this, are you speaking of removing the entire floor? Because this is what I think Im going to attempt today. But I think I can only do it and then leave that little bit 2" off gunnel. Is there a way to remove the entire floor in one piece. Would it be removing that trim around the bottom (going from memory) and then cutting right at the edge. Oh that sounds scary even thinking it, once slip and Im through the Hull itself. But I could probably manage to take it all out leaving the 2" gap. Leave the casting deck in place, and pull it all in one piece, then remove all bottom wood. Boy I wish I could go back now. I sanded the top smooth to reapply new gelcoat, and non-skid. But almost everything is fixable right? :shock:
Im a few hours from staring for a while, then firing up my saw, dremel, and whatever other tool I can come up with to start this whole trial and error process.
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Rickk - Question:
You stated "a) the best way would be to pop the whole liner out as one, flip it and recore the bottom."
When you state this your talking about removing the old wood from the floor and putting in new marine plywood and then glassing correct? I do know how to do that, the guy helping me before had be do this to the cable trough cover and the gas tank cover. They are both just fiberglass skin now.
I'm talking about removing the screws all the way around the cap, cutting the transom cap loose and somehow "popping" everything loose, liner and all and lifting the entire liner/cap/sole off the boat and then flipping it, etc
When, you said most of us don't know how to do this, are you speaking of removing the entire floor? Because this is what I think Im going to attempt today. But I think I can only do it and then leave that little bit 2" off gunnel. Is there a way to remove the entire floor in one piece. Would it be removing that trim around the bottom (going from memory) and then cutting right at the edge. Oh that sounds scary even thinking it, once slip and Im through the Hull itself. But I could probably manage to take it all out leaving the 2" gap. Leave the casting deck in place, and pull it all in one piece, then remove all bottom wood. Boy I wish I could go back now. I sanded the top smooth to reapply new gelcoat, and non-skid. But almost everything is fixable right? :shock:
Im a few hours from staring for a while, then firing up my saw, dremel, and whatever other tool I can come up with to start this whole trial and error process.
See above answer. It's a skill that must be learned from someone that has popped a liner out of a boat before. There was a post recently, if anyone remembers where it was, that showed this happening.
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Rickk it wasn't long into my pulling the floor that I had to change everything I has inteneded. I had expected hiccupes but not so soon. Oh well, I will have to put in a new floor. Getting the deck from the stringers somewhat has me stalled. I hope tomorrow to have it all the way out. But we will see.
Thanks for the reply
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Rickk - Question:
You stated "a) the best way would be to pop the whole liner out as one, flip it and recore the bottom."
When you state this your talking about removing the old wood from the floor and putting in new marine plywood and then glassing correct? I do know how to do that, the guy helping me before had be do this to the cable trough cover and the gas tank cover. They are both just fiberglass skin now.
I'm talking about removing the screws all the way around the cap, cutting the transom cap loose and somehow "popping" everything loose, liner and all and lifting the entire liner/cap/sole off the boat and then flipping it, etc
When, you said most of us don't know how to do this, are you speaking of removing the entire floor? Because this is what I think Im going to attempt today. But I think I can only do it and then leave that little bit 2" off gunnel. Is there a way to remove the entire floor in one piece. Would it be removing that trim around the bottom (going from memory) and then cutting right at the edge. Oh that sounds scary even thinking it, once slip and Im through the Hull itself. But I could probably manage to take it all out leaving the 2" gap. Leave the casting deck in place, and pull it all in one piece, then remove all bottom wood. Boy I wish I could go back now. I sanded the top smooth to reapply new gelcoat, and non-skid. But almost everything is fixable right? <!-- s:shock: -->:shock:<!-- s:shock: -->
Im a few hours from staring for a while, then firing up my saw, dremel, and whatever other tool I can come up with to start this whole trial and error process.
See above answer. It's a skill that must be learned from someone that has popped a liner out of a boat before. There was a post recently, if anyone remembers where it was, that showed this happening.
Here ya go.
http://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=8901.0
PD, please note:
I have merged your original thread on floor removal with your rebuild thread. The continuity is still here so now you can just post to this active thread. I have deleted the other thread but it's contents still exist in this thread.
Good luck.
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Hello everyone. After working so late yesterday (day 1) and ending up at the dentist, my Girlfriend is a Hygienist, literally a qtr mile down the road, to get stitches in my mouth because of popping myself in the mouth with a piece of wood. It pushed my top two teeth through my bottom lip, literally it went through all the way. We will say Aquasport 222 vs Prudog45 Day 1, Winner Aquasport!! :lol: She, The Aquasport, got a break today as I slept too late. I work nights, and it's tough breaking that schedule on days off, by the time I drug myself out of bed my boat was locked in up at the Mercury Dealer after close. Could be better this way, a day break for me.
WORDY ALERT BELOW:
I did just speak to another member over the phone about something unrelated to this post. He made me feel better. He said cut the floor out and leave the stringers with their bit of floor enact and work on it separately after. This is what I wanted to do, but my help, who is also my teacher, was working on a Yamaha motor. I kept walking over to him and telling him NASA engineers came up with a formula to attach the floor to the stringers. He kept sending me back and saying you'll get it with a sawzaw, just keep at it. I literally tried to use his boat hoist to pull the floor out when I had cut out the edges, It literally picked up the entire boat. That stringer to hull glue Aquasport used in 1975 by Aquasport is of a formula not known to man, as it defies the laws of physics. My teacher and the Mercury / Yamaha Marine dealership owner said I had to cut the stringers loose with a longer sawzaw blade. I of course said, no, I have been reading this forum for a year and its coming out. Well it is coming out but not with the sawzaw, and not with the boat lift. I have to go against my teachers wishes. Ok, I'll stop calling him that, but it reminded me of an old Master and Student Karate movie, where the Student becomes the teacher. Because tomorrow I have to defy his wishes and do as this other member said, and say heck with saving anything. Cut the stringers loose and pull the floor. Back to K I S S (Keep it simple stupid).
Thanks for the link to removing the entire inside, this idea will not work for me anymore. I wished I would of been ahead of the game, but I had my transom done before I started on the inside. It worked out that way due to finding little things in the floor when he was doing the transom.
Again, this forum has proved more valuable than words. The call I had from another member a moment ago. Also Capt Bob providing the Ms Delmarva rebuild link with pics are so so valuable. Thanks to everyone so much for you post.
You will notice I use humor a lot when disgruntled. It is my way, I learned it from my father. And if I didn't have this humor, I surely wouldn't be sure about all obstacles I encounter with this boat, or in life. This and my faith have brought me father than I ever thought possible. But I am a man, so if you see me disguise an explicative, well that's me. And I assume children read this sited other words even if I think others fit better and are much more colorful!!!
:-) Until tomorrow my Aquasport Friends. I'm off to Lowe's to find somethings. Mainly a new blade :)
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Here's how I got my floor loose from the stringers when rebuilding mine. Did all the cuts all the way around and left the front alone..made 2 cuts about a foot apart about 2 feet in from the transom, side to side, took a long pry bar and started prying the floor up. Yes it split all to pieces, but that's OK. Once I got that first section out I had room to work and wound up taking a 4 inch concrete chisel and a BFH(Big Friggin Hammer) and started popping the mother of all adhesives loose...got some loose made another cut and remove that section, about 6 hours later was at the front and finished, just had to go back and chip the remaining glue loose and hit it with a grinder with 24 grit..Nasty job but it is doable. :thumright: Saw blades. I used a rough cut plywood blade, smooth cut gets dull to easy and gets clogged..Just set your depth to just cut thru the floor..Looking forward to seeing pics :thumright:
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The irony in all these "stringer up" rebuilds is that, when these boats were decked or the liners installed, these were done in such a manner as to NOT come apart!! For years, we (and most other builders) used Arjay polyester bonding putty, which obviously has a pretty aggressive adhesion. In '08, Arjay came out with a "new and improved" putty which has an adhesion damn near the strength of Plexus.
Rebuilds down the road are gonna be fun...
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Day 2: OK i have to get pictuures however the floor is 90% out I have to remove the floor off the stringers-- And chiseling it may be the way. Question, why can't I just curt the top of the stringers off when I get most of the floor off? I'm going to remove the.top to pull the wet foam anyway I can just glass back over it right? Is their marine plywood in the tops so I need to save it? And is everyone refoaming them, or is there as better method? Sorry for ,missing the pics I'll get some up tomorrow.
Here is all I did. So I had cut all the way around the boat leaving about 2 inches all the way around then today. I found a long straight board and laid it about 1/2 inch from the stringer and drew a line. I did this on both sides. After that everything started coming out just fine including some of the deck attached to the stringers. So from what I can see the casting casting.deck is fine. So as of now I'm leaving it. Next step tops of stringers. Possibly a layer or two of fiberglass inside the hull just for warm and fuzzy. Then I'm in for many decisions. I need a live well but don't know if I have the talent to make one like' all the ones I've seen on here. But we will see after cleaning up the inside running PVC for wiring running new gas hoses-building a cradle of some sort for the gas tank' which is poly so I'm keeping it. I'll keep everyone posted. Day 3 is tomorrow I fell lots of cleanup to see what I'm dealing with will be most of the day-pictures to come..
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You could find the front and back of the stringers going bow to stern and string a chalk line just on the inside of the top of the stringers. Do this on both sides of the top on both stringers. Then use a circular saw, cut on the inside of the chalk line and removing the top and wood. Once done, you can remove the foam, then fix what is needed inside and out. Refoam, make leval, refiberglass, and your done. Easy pieze lemon squeezy
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You can do as aqua suggested. That will leave the reference for the top of the stringers. You would still need to remove the remaining strips of deck between the current cut line and aqua's cut line, but that should be a little easier.
But one thing to consider is deck height. Many of us raise the decks on these older 22's to promote better self-bailing and minimize water ingress if 2 or 3 people move to the back of the boat. If you plan to do that, you might as well cut the tops off as you suggested. Cutting the tops off will also give you better access inside the stingers. This will help for foam removal, and also for tabbing in the inside of the stringers to the hull. That is assuming you are going to leave the stringers in place. Some people pull the stringers all the way out, then add glass to the hull, then re-install the stringers or make new ones. It seems that most people go back with foam-filled stringers, but others use composite or foam boards (look like lumber) to make new stringers. I guess each as benefits - so I think it is a matter of preference and what you are comfortable with.
Which ever way you go, good luck, and don't let the boat beat you!
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Well started removing foam in the stringers today. Baby steps, this is when you start thinking OMGosh can I really do this. Trying to upload Photos. Not much success yet. My girlfriend Jenny took a bunch at my request with her Nikon DSLR. The sizes are too big. I'm trying to downsize them. Please be patient with me. I'm trying :-)
Ok I think I got it. Here are the pictures thus far. I converted these to 1000x100 as the site said that was the size limit. I see them now and they look small. I will have to do some reading on uploading on CAS.com
Note:
Transom Rebuild Done
Paint Job Done
Floor Removed
Transom Foam remobal in process
In Pics myself, my girlfriend Jenny, and her son Ethan.
Removed Thumbnail Pics to add full Pictures.
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If you dont already have one, get one of the lineman shovels. Looks like a bent spade with a curve. Slice down the middle the pop out.
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[attachment=0:8t9tdows]DSC_0020.jpg[/attachment:8t9tdows][attachment=1:8t9tdows]DSC_0013.jpg[/attachment:8t9tdows][attachment=2:8t9tdows]DSC_0007.jpg[/attachment:8t9tdows]More Pics - Still too small but until I can fix them.
I read Rickk's Photo upload link: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=111 (http://www.classicaquasport.com/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=111)
I'll fix these up when it's not 01:00 AM :D I apologize for there size now.
Thank you all for the time you have taken to give me feedback and support. This has been by far the best forum Ive ever had the privileged of getting to speak with each of you. I see the pictures and I try to duplicate what I see. It;s tough at times, so I cross my fingers I can pull off this rebuild as well as many of you..... As I stated before I'm a bit overwhelmed now. I wished I had a second boat so I wouldn't feel like the clock is ticking. I'll figure it out. Time to use the Kayak this year I suppose :-)
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The way to post pix is to not attach them. You upload them to your gallery in the photo gallery on this site. Then you follow the info posted in the link near the top of each forum on how to post pix in your topics.
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Oh, it is GOOD to be home! No place like home....no place like home.... :lol:
Ryan, looking forward to your build! :thumright:
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Je parle francais? Oui monseiur!
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Ryan, just re-read your thread start to finish. My condolences in losing your Dad. Many of us have been through it, and it is hard. However, his memory will always be there to guide you. Many times I can close my eyes and ask my Dad a question or receive guidance, and feel that most of the time I get his direction.
A special thanks to adjectively adept Captain Bob, our bud and mod. It took him a LOOOOOONG time to put that pictorial synopsis together, among his other valued input. Bob, a sincere thanks from myself and all of our members, past, present, and future.
Ry, you're looking great so far. You will want to raise the deck a bit, but in my opinion not as much as is necessary on the 22-2 Flatbacks. We raised Miss D 1.5 inches off original, she self-bails like a champ. A raised deck always equates to loss of freeboard, so the idea is to go just enough to get the job done.
Sorry late to this thread, just getting back in from a trip. Thanks for the kind words earlier! I have your cell #, will call later this week when get settled in.
Thanks! :salut:
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Gran Thanks for your replies and welcome back to country. I thank you for you condolences to my father. I the same as you, talk to him from time to time. Even found his jacket in my coat closet months after he passed. I reached in and put on a jacket for a run to the store. I noticed it wasn't my coat when I got to the store. I reached in the pocket and my Dad's money clip, that said Grandpa on it, was in there. Much like him, he didn't leave me any money :-) I would of gave it to Mom if there was money!! It was a strange occurrence and my oldest son has taken ownership of this jacket. All three of us, myself, and my sons miss him dearly. People loved him, but not because he was always the most PC person, because you had no guessing with him. Sometimes the truth hurt, but he would give it to his children. And a lot of times I needed it. But he had the softest side that was seen with his Grandchildren.
Anyway, I have questions.
I priced foam for closed cell, and I'm waiting on another quote, because all I have to go on now is someone on here, and I don't remember where stated they used 4 lbs closed cell per side. I've priced this stuff, and honestly, I started considering doing what I know a lot of the fisherman do, and not even refoam. Except the very back section about 3 floor in front of the transom and under the bilge area. I'm not saying it's a good idea but if I'm looking at a $1000.00 for Foam, I'm having a Panic attack :-) Albiet floatation is important on a boat :-)
Second: I have seen this mentioned over and over what is Tabbing in the Stingers?
And Gran, forgive me I can go to Goggle and look, but what do you mean by losing freeboard if I raise the floor? See I wasn't going to. But I have the 2 " floor I left from ledge all the way around, I'd have to raise the stringers. But that might not be hard. I seen your pics where you made the self bailing drain area a bit larger, I had already decided I liked this. I was also going to put in through hull drains for the front storage drainage and run hoses to the back. My last boat had these under the water line, so I don't know how they even drained but they did. I suppose it's because the drain itself and the hose was above the water line. I have the Livewell Ive yet to set out to construct, I'll need a through transom drain for it. Anyway Im way ahead of myself,
Back to stringers. Gran when we talked about a year ago I believe you said there was somone that made or could make composite stringers specifically for the 222 - I could be wrong. Can you PM me the info if you still have it? Or just pass my info on to them. I need to see what is my best option.
Thanks -
(Oh Im working tonight so I can not fix the pictures until Wed when I return to the foam removal).
P.S. It is my Monday I had to edit this post. I could not believe my Grammar, and boy I'm wordy, but I was typing all over the place. Forgive me if you see this in my post sometimes, it's a downfall of being clinically OCD - or "scattered brained". Sometimes I go back and read my own post and I think "What am I even saying".. LOL!!
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All is well. If you raise the deck, you lose freeboard.....the gunnel ends up lower in relation to your body. So raise the deck five inches....instead of being inside the boat at zipper height....you're now just above knee height. Not a biggee running around the bay.... but offshore in rough water...something to consider.
Your existing stringers are good to go. Cut the tops off, pull the foam out....just as our new member has done on her '74. Foam is cheap...don't pay crazy money. The only closed-cell you'll need is inside the stringers. Block foam is fine and IMO preferable to lay in the hull beneath the deck, outside the stringers.
Don't apologize for wordiness. If that's how you fly, good by us. I myself just like to post a lot :mrgreen:
This is going to be a great experience for you. Trust the members, a lot of knowledge here....no worries :wink:
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Welcome home Scotty! Hope you're tipping the scales a couple lbs on the + side... :shock: :wink:
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Thanks brother! Glad to be back in the good ol' US of A. Where using a public restroom is free. No 20% Value Added Tax on any and all purchases. Diesel isn't $9/gallon. And hotels have washcloths :shock:
Lost 3 pounds....we walked a LOT :roll:
I'll post some pics on the Chum forum once we get back to normal. Should be fun... Carolyn made me buy some stylish Frenchy-boy clothes.
Like Boy George :mrgreen: :oops:
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All is well. If you raise the deck, you lose freeboard.....the gunnel ends up lower in relation to your body. So raise the deck five inches....instead of being inside the boat at zipper height....you're now just above knee height. Not a biggee running around the bay.... but offshore in rough water...something to consider.
Your existing stringers are good to go. Cut the tops off, pull the foam out....just as our new member has done on her '74. Foam is cheap...don't pay crazy money. The only closed-cell you'll need is inside the stringers. Block foam is fine and IMO preferable to lay in the hull beneath the deck, outside the stringers.
Don't apologize for wordiness. If that's how you fly, good by us. I myself just like to post a lot :mrgreen:
This is going to be a great experience for you. Trust the members, a lot of knowledge here....no worries :wink:
OMGosh I just typed a bunch and then exited the site without submitting. I'll take this as a sign not to order closed cell until I know what and how much I need.
Regardless, I know someone had been under the deck in this boat before, first clue it has a Poly fuel tank - although it was installed backwards, and I had to remove non-fiberglassed rotten wood from under the fuel tank and I had to remove the foam filled fiberglass span that ran between the stringers about 5 foot forward the transom, aft the fuel tank, because someone wedged a board under there :?: , and this fiberglass span was not in good shape. After I removed it, the small horizontal square (4 foot forward the stringers), glassed to the stringers as well, near the hull bottom and directly aft the removed span became quite flexible. It is a mystery to me. As something had to be holding this up, yet allowing drainage, and I know it wasn't this water logged plywood. Will search pictures to see if I can figure out this mystery. I assume I can rebuild this span no issues, and then reinforce the aft board with marine grade plywood, and fiberglass it all in.
I have to get my pictures to upload correctly later this week, so I can use arrows to point to the what is this questions :-) Well it really is the only what is this I have found thus far. My assumption is it is to secure the rear of the fuel tank. So I will probably need to build a rear, a forward, and a bottom to house the fuel tank, yet allow the water to drain properly. Mold building would be handy now. It is coming fast :-)
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Oh and a side note: As I see many of you have titles, of course for the correct reasons (Master Builder, Rigging Master, Site Admin, Public Relations) - By the time I am done with my rebuild and this Subject Forum and of course asked every Aquasport 222 question possible. Can my Title Say : prudog45: Champion Rebuild Question Asker Extraordinaire --- "If you have a Question Check Prudog45's post, he has most likely asked it" :-)
Thanks again, All of your help has been worth it's weight in Gold!!! Please bare with my questions through this rebuild. From my Newbie perspective on rebuilds, I need this to come out as top notch as possible.
You see I talked my girlfriend out of buying an older Chesapeake Dead-rise style boat. Because a call came in from CAS member Sandman up in VA 1 hour after looking at this other boat. After months and months of searching, and no close calls. I had all but given in, then Sandman calls with a 1975 Aquasport 222 for sale. The timing was perfect, I was one step away from buying this other boat.. Sandman said the AS 222 transom needed redone, and I asked him for his price and he nearly knocked me out of my seat with his low price. I didn't get the 100.00 deal Kate did. But I did get a deal, I basically got the boat for the price of the brand new leaning post that came with it. I also paid separately for the trailer it was sitting on. I paid more the trailer than I wanted, but transporting it home and not putting it on another trailer while picking it up, it was worth it to me.
So if I can't make this work out great, I have her eyes piercing my soul to look forward to. Not really she is a great girl, but my guilt will eat me up, as she was so excited about the other boat, she just wanted to get on the water - she didn't care about looks. I literally talked her out of a boat ready to ride, for the 1975 Aquasport 222 that needed work. I can see the finished product by coming here to CAS.com and combing through pictures. Although sitting in fiberglass dust, sweating, and pulling wet foam can erase the picture in my head. :idea: :idea: :idea: I need to print one up and tape it somewhere visible inside the hull.
I can't say it enough, thank you all!!
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Ryan, that amount of money for foam is insane! I'm not sure what you got a quote for, but the 2 part expanding foam isn't going to cost half of that to fill EVERYTHING under the sole. If I remember correctly, I ordered 1 80lb kit of 2 lb and 3 16lb kits of 4lb and that should be too much just in case my stringer method goes unfavorably.
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Ok here we go. I'm crossing my fingers these Pictures make it to this Subject. Thanks Rickk for the Tutorial.... :shock: :bounce:
url=http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9539&title=day-3-floor-and-foam-removal&cat=701](http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//701/DSC_0020.JPG)[/url]
http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery ... 23&cat=701 (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9537&title=dsc-0023&cat=701)](http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//701/DSC_0023.jpg)[/url]
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(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//701/DSC_0022.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9535&title=dsc-0022&cat=701)
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(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//701/DSC_0013.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9529&title=dsc-0013&cat=701)
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(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//701/DSC_0003.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9521&title=day-3-finally-remembered-to-take-pics&cat=701)
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Well there is more, but pretty much the same stuff you all seen over and over in my Albums. I felt I was bogging the server down. So I posted the main ones, I'll try to get the rest later.
In the photos, My girlfriend, Jenny, and her son Ethan. Without them both I wouldn't have got even close to this far!!
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//701/DSC_0009.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9527&title=day-3-finally-remembered-to-take-pics&cat=701)
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:bounce: :bounce: :cheers: :cheers:
Yes Yes Yes I did it -- The Pictures showed up!!
And Yes new paint on the Aquasport 222 (Prob Oct, Nov 2013) and a new Transom (June and July 2013). You could say we might have worked a bit in reverse. But we didn't realize some things until the Transom was being done, that was hired out, I wanted this right - I wanted this one warm and fuzzy!!
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And Yes new paint on the Aquasport 222 (Prob Oct, Nov 2013) and a new Transom (June and July 2013). You could say we might have worked a bit in reverse.
Many a rebuild started exactly the same way and several members have done a transom replacement on hulls that are really in decent shape and the gel/paint was good so......
You're doin' great and it's always nice to have extra help cause.......... misery loves company. :wink:
Keep posting progress and.....
Good luck. :thumleft:
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Thank you Capt Bob/ I just got done talking to 86Aqua on the foam about some things. He said you were a good guy!! He must came up to your area to see you for things. Ive seen all you discuss on here and I had the feeling you have done this a few times :-) (Of course meaning over a few). I appreciate you posting and helping me when you have.
And yes my girlfriend Jenny will work her butt off. She is a Maine girl, I think LL Bean Duck Boots, Lobster, and Boat building is in her blood. That gal has stood with me at Harkers Island in waders, in very cold water, the winds were too high for a fly rod, the spray was hitting our hands and face. We took 8 weight fly rods just to see if we could do any good. She hung in there, after an hour and no bites, I told her it was useless, all fish were deep, or in the Ocean still. She wanted to stay and just cast for awhile. Of course me, being manly said: "Of course we will stay until your ready", My fingers hurt. my toes hurt but I'll be damned if I quit before her. I looked up and thanked the Lord when she said OK, lets go about 45 minutes later.. I had to tell her in the car that she impressed me, and seriously kicked my butt for sticking it out.
Jenny came home bough a fly tying kit, and has been tying flies ever since. Her first fly was shop quality. She is just tying saltwater flies. I told her to stay away from the 14 and 16 Elk Hair Caddis, or any in that size range. That's what I ties years ago, and they all looked like cotton balls. Jenny has eyes like a hawk though. She is 6 years younger than me. I need her to tie my freshwater fly fishing knots when using like 4x because I can't see the string anymore :-)
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Thank you Capt Bob/ I just got done talking to 86Aqua on the foam about some things. He said you were a good guy!! He must came up to your area to see you for things. Ive seen all you discuss on here and I had the feeling you have done this a few times :-) (Of course meaning over a few). I appreciate you posting and helping me when you have.
My pleasure but I think you have confused me with Seabob4, aka Bob C. Both of us are good guys depending on who you're drinking with at the time but he has had much more experience in the marine industry than I. I have just owned a few of these odd boats and for some unexplained reason, I'm drawn to them like a moth to a flame. Still my real knowledge of their existence has come from this Forum and members like him.
As my younger son likes to say,"It's all good so enjoy".......... and as always
Good luck. :thumleft:
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Back at ya, CB... :salut:
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I actually said both of you are good guys, however I also said listen to Seabob as he is the man about boats and from his posts, his edumacation from his skooling :roll: :mrgreen:
and that Capt Bob likes the search function.... :lol:
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Well I suppose I did get ya'll confused. But it's all good, you've all been good guys, I mean that seriously!! I have said it, and I will say it again - CAS.com has been more than worth it's weight in Gold. However, I do apologize for the mistake!!!
Yes Aqua86, I remember the "Search Function" :lol: So if I post a question you will know it is after I have used the "Search Function"!
Question, how do you use the "Search Function"? LOL :lol: --- Just a Joke!! :joker:
:mrgreen: Oh Good Times, Good Times!! :mrgreen:
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And let's not forget their most stunning similarity.
Backwards or forwards....you still get BOB!
:cheers:
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Backwards or forwards....you still get BOB!
And then there's the dynamics of buoyancy also. :|
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Not a lot happened this week or last week after the floor removal. Will start getting back on some of it tomorrow.
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And let's not forget their most stunning similarity.
Backwards or forwards....you still get BOB!
:cheers:
My parents did that on purpose Scotty. Makes my life easier... :wink:
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I'm still at it, Ive posted no pics as my process has been slow, so really nothing has changed. I have ordered some items, only to change my mind. I've decided that although my Transom was replaced, that I'm going to beef it up 3/4 more inches on hull or bow side.. The one I had installed will probably be ok, but I kept thinking it needed to be wider. Enough people said it, and I couldn't stand it so I'll be cutting out the self bailing drainage tomorrow, and doing a bit of grinding I'm using 3/4 inch marine grade Okoume. I had wished there was a way to epoxy this, then clear coat it so it gave a nice wooden nautical look from the inside looking at the stern. However, my realization became reality, I'll have to glass it, oh well. So I've been jumping website to website looking for items, closed cell foam, polyester or vinyl-ester, Gel coat, wax, styrene, etc etc. I've spent more time staring that doing lately. Its ok though, it allows me to see how this young girl is put together. I have a visit next week with a fellow "high ranking" :!: , well respected CAS member. I've decided not to do anything really necessary until seeing his boat. I will not be able to recreate his Super Aquasport 222, but it will give me ideas. I'm very much excited about seeing it and I'll be jealous :roll: :D Joke of course, I'm ecstatic to see it. I am sorry I've not posted much lately, but my process has been slow. And everything I plan, like not removing the casting deck as it is in good shape, has me concerned now, as I can not get all the foam out unless I remove it, at least not as I can see. But I have had recommendations not to not over stress it, as I've gotten as much foam out as my hand can reach up in there, and honestly although it makes me feel I'm side stepping a crucial step, The foam does seem dry up there.
Again, right now 'm only doing what I feel I should. Removing the casting deck seems so unnecessary that I'm starting to feel that this is correct, and most of the wet foam was below it. I want to remove it, but I've been advised by an pro (so to speak) to leave it alone.
Working nights and then working on this has been tuff , I find myself just staring so much. Tomorrow should be different. I've got my grinder ready and I'm ready to start making some progress. I've found things that confuse me, like why the drainage from the gunnel side of the stringers at the transom doesn't drain well. I know how to fix it, but part of me said yes run a drill through it and epoxy in a drain, then add a small bilge pumps to both sides as well. I'm obsessed over small details and not moving fast enough on the big stuff. That about sums it up really. I know and expect to make mistakes, I'm trying to limit them now. Most of these big ideas I have seem to disappear when I encounter a problem doing as I wish. Progress will be in spurts, please bare with me :)
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I have a visit next week with a fellow "high ranking" :!: , well respected CAS member. I've decided not to do anything really necessary until seeing his boat. I will not be able to recreate his Super Aquasport 222, but it will give me ideas. I'm very much excited about seeing it and I'll be jealous :roll: :D Joke of course, I'm ecstatic to see it.
Now you've done it. Now his head will be so big he won't be able to get in here anymore.
And everything I plan, like not removing the casting deck as it is in good shape, has me concerned now, as I can not get all the foam out unless I remove it, at least not as I can see. But I have had recommendations not to not over stress it, as I've gotten as much foam out as my hand can reach up in there, and honestly although it makes me feel I'm side stepping a crucial step, The foam does seem dry up there. Again, right now 'm only doing what I feel I should. Removing the casting deck seems so unnecessary that I'm starting to feel that this is correct, and most of the wet foam was below it. I want to remove it, but I've been advised by an pro (so to speak) to leave it alone.
If the stringers are fine under the casting deck and the foam is dry I would leave it too. New foam will bond to the old just fine.
Working nights and then working on this has been tuff , I find myself just staring so much.
That's part of the process and you have to think everything through - just have to know when thinking has been completed and it's time for action.
I've found things that confuse me, like why the drainage from the gunnel side of the stringers at the transom doesn't drain well. I know how to fix it, but part of me said yes run a drill through it and epoxy in a drain, then add a small bilge pumps to both sides as well.
Since you have the stringers opened up and outboard foam all removed it should be easy to either drill it out or replace it with a new 1 or 1.5" piece of PVC on both stringers. I don't see any reason for a pump anywhere but in the center of the hull. (Unless I missed something in the pics)
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Definitely agree with Rick on only the center bilge needing a bilge pump. With weep holes in the right places, any water that gets outboard will drain to the keel area, then aft...
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Probably the most exiting part of any rebuild is the planning, sourcing, and purchasing of components. Take your time, do your due diligence, and search out the best stuff at the best price. As the old adage goes, the satisfaction of quality remains after the thrill of price is long forgotten. So take your time, get it just like you want. Sure doesn't have to take three years like Miss D....but a rush job is always that, a rush job. This might end up being a boat you'll keep for a good long time, so careful planning is a good thing. And a quality job makes it more desirable and marketable when and if the time comes.
Excited about your visit! Will you be going to South Carolina, Georgia, or Florida :?:
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Thanks all again for replies. I removed about 10" of stringer today that attaches to the transom. I was covered in fiberglass dust grinding it so I can epoxy the new 3/4 inch wood to the transom to beef it up. Itched a bit but I'm showered and feeling much better. Regardless I now have plenty of room to add some PVC drainage. When I foam and re fiberglass.
Scott did I miss something on where I'm visiting? :?: Or were you making a joke, Just want to make sure :-)
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Yep, just funning :mrgreen:
Looking forward to meeting you! Boat goes in the water this morning for the season!
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Yep, just funning :mrgreen:
Looking forward to meeting you! Boat goes in the water this morning for the season!
LUCKY!! Ice should be out of the lake by tomorrow if the sun comes out....
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Good deal Gentleman, congrats!!!
In the meantime, I'm trying to get my boat dry so I can epoxy the drain hole where the non-marine plywood that I paid 3500.00 for, in my new Transom, was left exposed for a year. Yes I offered to go get marine plywood, and was assured by this gentleman that he would have so much glass on it, it would never matter. I was new, and trust worthy at this time. Now I have been told, this was totally dishonest. I'll just pray for the best now.
Lets just say the guy that did my transom could of done a much better and more honest job. I felt he and I became friends on my many visits, which was a bad move on my part, as it made my telling him how I felt tough..... I paid him for a paint job and honestly I can not believe he let it go the way he did. But while I restrain myself from saying something really bad, I hope he finds that the brown bottle has caused his work to be careless, and word is getting around. I don't spread rumors, but I do hear them, and this guy is actually a bit rough around the edges but a good guy. Sure, he did me over good, did he mean too, I don't think so, I just think he believes he knows more than anyone about building boats using expensive marine woods, and composites... He has worked on boats his whole life, and came highly recommended because of his credentials with many boat companies, working himself up to managing a few of them. But he is losing his credentials fast, so his second source of income, which I think he needs, will be extinguished unless he finds his way off the bottle. It's sad for him, and for his daughters. It is sad for me, and for my girlfriend, because we can't see tearing the transom down again now. I just have to do what is best, and fix what I can, while I can, and beef up this transom more. The paint on the other hand, it's a good color, we picked it (my girl and I), but I know he didn't buy Imron Paint that we paid for. He didn't prep the pin holes he found prior to painting. So I ended up buying more paint for the bottom. Yes I could of refused, but it was in my nature to pay and get the boat out of his hands. It really became that in the last month, just get the boat away from him before he does more damage.
So that one is for the books, and hopefully this unseasoned learning boat re-builder can pass that along. If there is a job, and you don't think it is within your grasp, take it to a brick and mortar shop that has been in business for awhile. Save yourself cash by just paying more, and in my case, I don't even think I would of paid more. Jenny and I are $7000.00 out the window (basically) on two seriously shoddy very dishonest jobs. And neither of us have that kind of money to just throw away, hell who does. Should I be mad, yeah, and sometimes I get really mad, and I want to pick up the phone. But reality is, he's digging a slow grave with his drinking, sure we got the results of it. But I truly hope he finds it's killing him. Maybe someday, he will call me and offer to do his expensive transom and paint job right and apologize. Yeah I doubt it too, but forgiveness is easier right now. I have a boat to get done.
Any really good charity custom boat builders out there :-) LOL.. Just a joke!! I'll get there, granted through some difficulty, but in he end I can say I made it. And on launch day, I can smile ear to ear knowing I learned valuable life lessons. And I can provide sound honest advice from true hands on experience.
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Sorry to hear of the transom issue, pretty much everyone on here knows of someone who was taken like that. A lot of good craftsmen have lost good businesses because of the bottle and other vices, but it makes it hard to take a loss like that for the average guy who works for a living and is just wanting a good job for his hard earned money.. :salut: You where probably smart to remove your boat from him before it got worse..
At least now with you doing it, you will know exactly how it was done and if you want to fix something that doesn't "look" right you can. I learned a lot on here while doing my rebuild, is it perfect, not by any means. but I know where every little part and piece is and why it is there..could have been smoother but the next one will be. I probably put my boat in places it wouldn't go if most people where behind the wheel, but I have some faith in the work I did and if need be can do again. Hang in there it won't be as hard as you think, just make your plan and go with it, but maintain a little flexability as you may find as you go farther into the build you may want to change little things here and there :thumright:
Must be nice to have a partner that wants to help. :cheers:
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i kind of experienced the same thing. no bottle involved but i think i pissed him off when i showed up every 5-6 days to see the progress. he came highly recommended and ive seen his other work. his daily work is big boats. sportfishes and whatnot. think my boat was just a side project for him. took almost 5 months to paint the boat and put a transom in. paint turned out pretty good. transom isnt to my standards and not what we discussed it would be. structually i think itll be ok. finish work on the outside skin could've been much better. but ive seen worse too. and i cant complain much about the price i paid. he was just very dishonest in what he said he would do. but by the time i realized it i couldnt take the boat away as i just dont have the money to pay someone else to finish. but structually, it seems sound. no flex and feels like hitting a rock when you knock on it and 1/4-1/2" thicker than factory transom. ill find out in two weeks once this semester is over.
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Ryan, here is a pic from another thread which pertains to a question you had asked...
(http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l157/erock509/3F958819_zpsa98a4199.jpg)
http://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=9469.0
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Thanks Gentleman for sharing your stories with me about what you encountered as well. I am sorry this happened to you, but it does help me know I'm not alone. The Transom is actually probably fine, I'm going to beef it up, my aggravation is only that I offered to get marine plywood and he said no, he didn't need any. It really looks good, I'm seeing it now for what it is as I'm grinding off Gelcoat to attach the 3/4 inch Marine Grade Okoume plywood to the existing transom with Epoxy, and then temporary bolts to snug them together. He just didn't use marine plywood and left my drain exposed for almost a year. So the non marine plywood has basically been wet off and on at the drain for a pretty good period of time. I paid too much, and on top of that it is a 1" hole that is haunting me. Going to dry it in a shelter. Use acetone to pull any extra water out I can. Learned this worked on the last boat I worked on. That one was a nightmare. But I did learn git rot works real well. Turned what I thought was rotten wood into concrete. I wished I could use it in this situation as a precaution, drill some holes in the drain and fill them with Git Rot. But this would produce another challenge how?? So dry it, use acetone for a few days to pull all excess water out that I can. Then epoxy it up real well.
Gran: Thanks for the post, I'm at work and will need to look at them at home or at the shop (pics are blocked here for some reason). This is much appreciated because I can hand the print outs to Neal up at R&K and he can see the real deal. I wished I could Neal to come down for a bit to see your boat. Neal is the one that convinced me that Bluefish was good eating if cleaned right away and ate within 24 hours. Maybe if I tell him the Blues are biting he'll join me at Masonboro beach for an afternoon. He needs to break away from his shop. He is a work horse, and takes no breaks. But I suppose when you own the business, thats what you do.
Again, thanks to you all. Will start posting pics again Next week. No updates really. But I'm ready to start moving -- baby steps :-)
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Off to Wilmington tomorrow to see Gran's Super Aquasport.. Jenny and I are very excited.... My Mom is watching the boys and dogs. First away trip without the kids for Jenny and I!! :cheers:
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Side note:: I found this on an Army friend of mines families Yacht sales site.
http://www.dimillosyachtsales.com/searc ... chtype=buy (http://www.dimillosyachtsales.com/search-mls/?rPage=/privatelabel/listing/pl_boat_detail_handler.jsp?slim=pp286260&units=Feet&boat_id=2671284&primary_photo_id=0&primary_photo_url=http%3A%2F%2Fnewimages.yachtworld.com%2Fresize%2F1%2F27%2F94%2F4522794_20131126105836219_1_XLARGE.jpg&back=%2Fprivatelabel%2Flisting%2Fcache%2Fpl_search_results.jsp%3Fps%3D20%26man%3Daquasport%26searched%3Dtrue%26slim%3Dpp286260%26type%3D%2528Power%2529%26rid%3D100&searchtype=buy)
Just.passing along. Too far for me and I must not stop my AS rebuild progress! Our boat will be priceless to me when finished..
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Off to Wilmington tomorrow to see Gran's Super Aquasport.. Jenny and I are very excited.... My Mom is watching the boys and dogs. First away trip without the kids for Jenny and I!! :cheers:
You'll like Scotty's ride... :thumleft: :thumleft:
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Looking forward to meeting you guys!!
The sun is out, the birds are chirping :flower:
Thanks Bob, we've been enjoying her! :thumright:
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Looking forward to meeting you guys!!
The sun is out, the birds are chirping :flower:
Thanks Bob, we've been enjoying her! :thumright:
Just got to the hotel after a great afternoon. Too much too state' too good of a time!! Gran is the ultimate host. Showed us around the water front. Went and seen Ms. D, no words can express the mastership, quality, dedication, and heart that went into remaking her into a masterpiece. I had a bit of fear seeing a boat that was done so well. But Ms. D showed me that it can be done. Thanks so much Scott .. Hopefully we can go for a ride tomorrow. If the weather is bad as it turned into today it's all good. We will have no expectations and are thrilled to be down here for a few days :cheers:
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Ryan, great meeting you and Jenny! Thanks for the kind words, I too hope this weather will straighten out....not much fun riding in the wind and rain.
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Miss D is a pretty boat, ain't she Ryan? :thumleft: :thumleft:
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Miss D is a pretty boat, ain't she Ryan? :thumleft: :thumleft:
I'm working now, but have real access to the Internet again. I just typed too much, then lost it when I took a work related call and moved away from CAS.com for too long. came back and all my typing was gone :shock:
In a nut-shell: Ms D is a true work of art. The AS 22.2 by itself is stunning, even when it needs some serious TLC. Ms D really shows what this boat can be with hard work, know how (this site), and the heart to make them right. Gran has turned Ms D (for lack of better words) a spectacular boat. Words escape me, and a thesaurus full of words still can't describe Ms D. I'm proud to say that Jenny and I were more than impressed, and ready to make our AS 22.2 right. I am not fooling myself, there is no way I can personally match Ms D's rebuild. But I might be able to make our 22.2 into a head turner too.
We took Ms D out today (this morning), we have so many pics. I'll get them up on Ms D's pics ASAP. Waiting for my girlfriend to edit them (That's her, she loves photography, so I have to wait until she fixes any imperfections she perceives, before I can upload them). Regardless, Ms D handles as well as she looks. Gran gave me the honors of taking the helm for a bit. She drives like a dream, and the dual outboards on her stern were a treat for me, as this was my first experience driving a boat with dual outboards. I've had jet drives, single outboards, inboard/outboards, but this really opened my eyes to maneuverability factors that exist with dual outboards. My old Jet drive handled like a dream as well, but there were too many setbacks running a jet drive. You can spin them on a dime and run nearly on sand (on plane). But they are loud, as mine was a Chevy 350 attached to a Kodiak 3 Stage Jet on a flat bottom skiff. You'll suck sand and screw up impellers in a hurry, not to mention fishing line or rope being shot through a multi-stage blender, they aren't designed to chew stuff up and spit it out... Plus you'll scare every fish within a mile. They also don't run well in deeper water, still somewhat a mystery to me. The dual outboards Gran is running on the other hand, seem to have so many positives, them being Mercury 75HP EFIs make them more economical, noise was not an issue at all. Noise was just the wind blowing through our hair (or lack there of in my case). Ms D's being Mercury's helped in my case as I'm putting a single 220HP Merc Mariner EFI on mine. I started ordering a Verado, but I stepped back and decided to run her with a lighter engine to start. Sure economically the 220 EFI will not do as well economically. But I'm going to see how the AS 22.2 does with a lighter engine on the stern. One that has more Horseys than I'll ever need. The Verado price was not hard to step back from even if just for short term.
In conclusion, Jenny and I set out Thursday for a 3 days in Wilmington, NC.. My goal for Jenny to see a restored AS 222 and for myself to get some warm and fuzzy feelings. Get some fishing in, and just get away from home. What I found was meeting Gran was the genuine pleasure. He is the real deal, and great guy. He has a contagious personality and people are drawn to him because of his overall demeanor. Seeing Ms D was no doubt a true pleasure, riding on her was a blast. But finally meeting Gran was the real enjoyment of the trip. I thank Gran and his wife for their hospitality and showing us a very good time. I look forward to getting back to work on our AS 22.2.. Pics to come soon!!
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Ryan, great meeting you both too, glad the weather finally straightened out!
Thanks for the compliments too!
That boat has been a lot of fun....you're going to enjoy the process and the final result :cheers:
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You didn't get fish blood on the deck of Miss D, did you? I heard that isn't allowed.
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You didn't get fish blood on the deck of Miss D, did you? I heard that isn't allowed.
but chicken grease and cheeto cheese is :scratch: :lol:
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Oh heck no guys! Ya'll know how I feel about those nasty fish :lol:
And no Cheetos or shrimp-flavored snacks :( .
Unfortunately, our ride didn't last long, as they had to get on the road. But is was a postcard-perfect morning.
Jenny is quite the photographer....nice cam too....looking forward to her pics!
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Oh heck no guys! Ya'll know how I feel about those nasty fish :lol:
And no Cheetos or shrimp-flavored snacks :( .
Unfortunately, our ride didn't last long, as they had to get on the road. But is was a postcard-perfect morning.
Jenny is quite the photographer....nice cam too....looking forward to her pics!
I'm working on it. I finally told her I didn't need the Engine or transom shots edited. Just to send them to me. Hope to get them soon. If I do tonight I will put them on the Ms D Pics tonight.
Gran Postcard Perfect is correct. I was so bummed to leave on a day when I knew the fishing was going to pick up. And actually Gran was quite nice. I asked about our shoes before we were welcomed aboard. He said come on, your fine she needs cleaned up anyway, which was a surprise as she looked great. Luckily my Keens and Jenny's sandles were non-marking. I would of felt like scrubbing all day out of guilt!! Axtually we would of been barefoot in a second!! I know what scrubbing shoe marks is like.... :o Working on Pics!!
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Oh heck no guys! Ya'll know how I feel about those nasty fish :lol:
And no Cheetos or shrimp-flavored snacks :( .
Unfortunately, our ride didn't last long, as they had to get on the road. But is was a postcard-perfect morning.
Jenny is quite the photographer....nice cam too....looking forward to her pics!
I'm working on it. I finally told her I didn't need the Engine or transom shots edited. Just to send them to me. Hope to get them soon. If I do tonight I will put them on the Ms D Pics tonight.
Gran Postcard Perfect is correct. I was so bummed to leave on a day when I knew the fishing was going to pick up. And actually Gran was quite nice. I asked about our shoes before we were welcomed aboard. He said come on, your fine she needs cleaned up anyway, which was a surprise as she looked great. Luckily my Keens and Jenny's sandles were non-marking. I would of felt like scrubbing all day out of guilt!! Axtually we would of been barefoot in a second!! I know what scrubbing shoe marks is like.... :o Working on Pics!!
:lol:
Oh, good stuff! Couple years back, saw a guy's boat, he says get on it if you must.... but take your shoes off! (I had on Sperry's). Put my back to it and walked away.
It's a boat!
Last year mine was new. This year....she's a boat! :mrgreen:
Great to meet you both Ry. And that sweet, pretty gal of yours...she's a keeper :thumright:
The Admiral says so too. That's important! :wink:
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Got pics Gran,,,' just got home will try to get them on here tonight. If not tonight tomorrow. Thanks sorry for delay. My schedule..
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Got pics Gran,,,' just got home will try to get them on here tonight. If not tonight tomorrow. Thanks sorry for delay. My schedule..
Well I'm having some technical difficulties. I cant't find the Miss Delmarva pics. Im tryng to upload what I have now to my folder and then see if I can't move them. Nope crashed, I will try again tomorrow.
Tried twice, now show!! Will get them up tomorrow. :?: Can anyone provided me a link to Ms Ds Pics?"
Cheers
Ryan
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I don't think you can upload them to his gallery, just yours. You can then post the links from your gallery and post them in a topic. Upload a few at a time and when done follow the instructions posted near the top of every forum on posting pics in your topic. It's very easy, just don't try to post more than a couple in each topic at at time.
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Got pics Gran,,,' just got home will try to get them on here tonight. If not tonight tomorrow. Thanks sorry for delay. My schedule..
Well I'm having some technical difficulties. I cant't find the Miss Delmarva pics. Im tryng to upload what I have now to my folder and then see if I can't move them. Nope crashed, I will try again tomorrow.
Tried twice, now show!! Will get them up tomorrow. <!-- s:?: -->:?:<!-- s:?: --> Can anyone provided me a link to Ms Ds Pics?"
Cheers
Ryan
Thanks Ry, looking forward to seeing Jenny's pics <!-- s:thumright: -->:thumright:<!-- s:thumright: -->
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Got pics Gran,,,' just got home will try to get them on here tonight. If not tonight tomorrow. Thanks sorry for delay. My schedule..
Well I'm having some technical difficulties. I cant't find the Miss Delmarva pics. Im tryng to upload what I have now to my folder and then see if I can't move them. Nope crashed, I will try again tomorrow.
Tried twice, now show!! Will get them up tomorrow. :?: Can anyone provided me a link to Ms Ds Pics?"
Cheers
Ryan
Thanks Ry, looking forward to seeing Jenny's pics :thumright:
You can post them up here:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6763&start=1740 (http://www.classicaquasport.com/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6763&start=1740)
Well it took me awhile but I got them there. I would like to get the full size photos to upload, but Jenny was taking large photos. I decreased the size but possibly too much. I will try to do better later, but I have been uploading and posting for a bit--- it's 12:44 AM -- gotta get up in a few hours to work on my boat. I'll try to get my actual slow rebuild pics on here by Saturday.
I did post this one pic to Miss D's Forum too. But as it was the GQ shot of the both of us I wanted to add it here as well.. We should of been in show businesses!! :lol: TTYS Scott and thank you!!
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//705/ry_scott.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9693&title=miss-delmarva-pics-from-may-1st-and-4th-2014&cat=705)
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Thanks Ryan! And thanks very much to Jenny, and also for the pics on the Miss D thread! :cheers:
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Thanks Ryan! And thanks very much to Jenny, and also for the pics on the Miss D thread! :cheers:
Your so welcome. We really loved our visit. You and your wife are great. Also ending the trip with a cruise on Miss Delmarva was just awesome!! :D
!
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OK so back to our Aquasport rebuild. No pics to share because I'm honestly stalled. Its fine I'll find my way in a few days. Honestly I have some questions. And I did do some cas.com searching and came up with some answers. But not all. So before I begin again, or better yet to recap I'm beefing up the transom first. Adding 3/4 inch Marine plywood and glassing it all together. Went round and round in conversation with my one local sources of advice about using epoxy to join the existing transom to the new board. I was worried because at some point we will have to switch back to polyester. So my thought was just use polyester to join them. Overlapping with 1 1/2 inch chop strand, many lyers, possibly with the last couple cloths being roven woven. I can then build my existing stringers right into the transom, any thoughts? Using epoxy would be better, but for cost and such it seems that polyeyester would be fine. The transom is solid I'm going for thickness.
The 3/4 inch keel board, leave it, or take it out? Don't see any real issues with it. I know there is wood inside buy the thought of taking this out is honestly a nightmare to be. I feel I'm messing too much with the integrity of the boat.
I left the existing stringer skin in place. Going to add some stiffness by again using marine plywood glasses in. They will be refoamed. Anynissues with this?
The bildge / stern drive mount at stern. Take it out, or leave it? Seems leaving it is best scenario as there I is extra foam back there with it.
I've got so many but these are juggling around in my head. :lol:
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Ok Ryan, let's try to tackle this. Here is the last pic you uploaded and I assume that all the foam is now gone from the inside of the stringers - correct?
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//701/DSC_0001.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9519&title=day-3-finally-remembered-to-take-the-camera&cat=701)
As for the transom, I don't see any pics that really shows us why you want to beef it up. If you could post some that would help us. Other wise a total of 2-3/4 plys is sufficient. We need some pics though. We have some talented people here that have actually done possibly the same thing that you're asking and can help if they can see what you're talking about.
Stringers: I am going to assume that the stringers are firmly bonded tot he hull. Correct?
Is you plan to raise the floor any? Either way it looks like you have a couple repairs to do to the gaps in the stringers before you can refoam.
Take a grinder and scruff up both sides (forward and aft) of the area to be repaired to include the hull out about 4" on all. You should also grind inside the stringer at the same places. To repair the stringers you can use wood as a "form" and then just cover the wood tightly with a vinyl drop cloth ($1 at HD). I would create a form that fits on the bilge side of the stringers and make it long enough that you can use some clamps farther out fore and aft to clamp the form to the stringer skins. Then using poly (since that is what you want to use) lay in some 3/4 oz or 1.5 oz mat and then a piece of 1708 cloth and then some more mat over that. Make sure you overlap the layers a little wider on each layer and allow 2-4" of adhesion on the fore and aft - do this all at once (called wet on wet).
Let that kick and then remove the wood form - it'll pull right off because the plastic won't let it stick to the wood. Now you have a complete stringer that you can now lam again from the bilge side with the same process.
As for the engine mounts - if they're not loose leave them, doesn't hurt a thing.
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Rick thanks for your I put. I will upload pics this week. Back to work tonight. But I'm absorbing what you said. A bit of confusion comes regarding removing the wood. But if I read it 20 more times maybe I'll understand :) thanks so much. Oh I don't prefer poly economically it is my best choice. 5 months ago I would of been talking all epoxy. The main reason for poly is I might have access to a chopper gun. That will make a lot of this easier :)
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The main thing is don't make a bigger deal out of it than it is. I'm guilty of that too and had to hear it from someone else before I realized it :salut:
If the form is wrapped in a cheap plastic drop cloth (cut to kind of be flat but not waste the rest of the drop cloth of course), the plastic drop cloth will just pull off the resin. I just posted the same thing as I built a hatch.
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"The main thing is don't make a bigger deal out of it than it is."
Rick, that is me to a T!! Albeit, I generally end up with what my intended goal was. But the between time, and over thinking surely causes me too much stress. This is suppose to be fun :-) I think my stress comes from working nights, and then trying to do what I can during my days off. I'm usually dog tired, and when I'm dog tired I over think everything. And those that help from time to time, especially my girlfriend and also co captain Jenny has said, we should of bought turn key, seeing you like this is not worth it. She doesn't understand, I had a brand new boat prior to this one, and I obsessed and over it --- jack plates, trolling motor, push pole mounting, waxing, washing, mildew was like my constant enemy. I was on that boat daily looking for mildew anywhere. I opened every hatch and pulled ever access cover and placed in in the garage after i washed it from a fishing trip. I ran freshwater through the engine for much longer than I needed to. I checked all pumps and lights once or twice a week. Started it on the hose once or twice a week. :bom: :bounce:
I want to get this completed knowing I learned a lot. I want to be proud that I took the time to know what I was doing. Sure I expect mistakes, I have way to far to go not to make some. I just want to walk away knowing if a friend decides to rebuild his boat I can help with some know how. I say it is the economy we live in. What I used to hire others to do, I'm just learning to do these things myself. At least thats it in my case. HVAC, your next!! :-) I have not issues with it, but when I do, i want to be ready!! :D