Classic AquaSport
Aquasport Mechanicals - things that need a wrench, screwdriver or multimeter => Controls, Steering, and Trim Tabs => Topic started by: CTsalt12 on February 17, 2014, 09:17:58 PM
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Hi All,
I hate to start a thread on a topic that has been covered a lot, but i have a specific issue I can't seem to fix. My steering is stuck with the wheel turned hard right, the steering rod all the way outside the tilt tube, and the steering cable? (or the rod the steering cable attaches to) all the way inside the tilt tube.
The cable moves freely about an inch when I unscrew the smaller of nuts on the starboard side of tilt tube and turn wheel. Also what I don't understand is that when I unscrew this nut, I can shake the smaller rod inside the cable housing going into the tilt tube up and down and around the tilt tube, just not in and out of the tube.
As you can see there is no room to hammer the steering rod back IN the tube because the transom boxes are in the way.
I have gotten the steering rod to spin freely, and was able to tap it OUT about a quarter inch. What should I be trying to do here? I don't understand the schematics and how the cable attaches to the rod inside the tilt tube, and I need to get them both out so I can properly clean and install a lube nut. Help much appreciated!
http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery ... 51&cat=651 (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9052&title=img-18851&cat=651)
http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery ... 41&cat=651 (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9051&title=img-18841&cat=651)
http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery ... 83&cat=651 (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9050&title=img-1883&cat=651)
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The "inner" cable is broken, I've had this before on a customer's boat. To get the rod out, you're gonna have to pound it out most likely, which will mean pulling the motor off the transom...
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I purposely haven't applied much pressure on the wheel, I'm not sure how the inner cable could've broken, but I'm not counting it out.
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Ct, if you look at a steering cable, you wonder how they could ever break...but they do... :(
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Was the boat sitting for a while hard over like that before you discovered it was stuck? Or did it just happen suddenly? I've had my steering cable get stuck like that once due to sitting... I had to heat up the tilt tube and hammer on it to get it free.
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Yeah it's been sitting unused since November. I'd been pretty good about exercising the wheel every couple weeks but it had been awhile.
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Have you seen this? Resource forum next to the "Buyers Bible".
viewtopic.php?p=108393#p108393 (http://www.classicaquasport.com/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?p=108393#p108393)
Good luck.
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Capt Bob, that was helpful, but is more geared towards replacing a cable, not un-sticking it.
I think my earlier post might have been misleading, the inner cable rod moves freely up and down and around the tilt tube, but not laterally (in and out of tube), if that makes any sense.
I'm really convinced the cable is not broken, just stuck. Either way it needs to come out of the tilt tube regardless, and I should be able to remove the cable without taking the engine off because there is a rigging hole in the stern box perpendicular to the transom.
My question is, should I be trying to tap the rod out the port side of the tilt tube, or back in the tilt tube and all the way out? It seems like heat might be necessary.
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Jim,
This might help.
viewtopic.php?p=104930#p104930 (http://www.classicaquasport.com/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?p=104930#p104930)
Another thought but not much info.
viewtopic.php?p=103113#p103113 (http://www.classicaquasport.com/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?p=103113#p103113)
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Jim,
My question is, should I be trying to tap the rod out the port side of the tilt tube, or back in the tilt tube and all the way out? It seems like heat might be necessary.
You need to push/tap the stainless shaft protruding on the port side of the engine so that it slides back through to the starboard side. It is currently FULLY extended as if you wanted to the boat hard to starboard which is why you feel so much play where the cable enters the steering tube on the starboard side. cycles of heating and cooling with substantial amounts of penetrant lube will likely be necessary.
I have gotten the steering rod to spin freely,
If you've already spun the swivel terminal on the end of the stainless shaft more than 360 degrees, then Seabob may be right and you could have snapped the inner rod which is really an extension of the cable itself. :oops: but since you say you can't pull the cable itself back out the starboard side, then it may still be intact.
To get the rod out, you're gonna have to pound it out most likely, which will mean pulling the motor off the transom...
X2 since you say you have insufficient room to hammer on the end due to transom boxes. (a very common headache by the way). :x If you do end up hammering, keep the correct size bolt in the mounting hole at the end of the steering shaft so that it doesn't compress/deform as easily. Minor mushrooming of the end can be corrected with a file or dremel tool once you've gotten the end of the shaft close to the steering tube.
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Thanks Georgie, very helpful. I have not spun the rod more than a quarter turn or so. Since I have so little space, I'm going to try
1. threading a long enough nut through the rod hole and hitting that, while applying pressure on both ends of the nut so I don't bend the rod.
2. I'm also going to try using a 2 x 4 as a lever, and hitting on that I'm hoping I can sort of pry the rod back into the tube.
I've heard about these pneumatic hammers and I'm wondering if I may have to use one of these to exert the right amount of force.
Since the rod is fully extended outwards, I'm thinking it has very little contact with the tube and there can't be much room for it to rust. There could be hardened grease blocking it however. Hoping to get it free this weekend. What a headache. I wish I did it right the first time with Steersman nut and cleaning with gun brush.
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These are your friends
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//695/DSCN0212.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9053&title=tools&cat=695)
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Heat it and beat it!. :roll: Thats what I had to do when mine got stuck. Heated up the tilt tube with a propane torch and beat on the rod end with a dead blow hammer. You can get the lead shot filled plastic coated ones at Harbor freight pretty cheap. Don't hit it with a steel hammer you'll just mushroom the end of the rod. A brass hammer might work too. You can also protect the end of the rod with a hunk of 3/4" starboard. Also spray the crap out of it with PB blaster and let it soak for a day or two.
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All great advice Jimbo.. MAKE SURE you back the cable retaining nut on the starboard side COMPLETLY off the tilt tube.. When everything starts to move you do not want to transmit the beating up the cable to the helm in case you have a problem on that end. Found that out the expensive way.. :oops:
If the bend into the tilt tube is not to hard you will be able to do a quick check to see if the cable is broken, with the retaining nut off, GENTLY rotate the helm, if you have any travel left on the cable you will see the cable jacket move away then back to the tilt tube mount as you move the helm if the cable is intact. It will not move much, but it will move...
Remember too that heating the tilt tube up enough to melt the grease is the temp you are going for, not hot enough melt the seals...
A lead sinker is good to beat against as well, you will not lose any of the hammer shock as you will with a soft wood block (2x4). A chunk of oak/maple or other hardwood would work too, but lead is the winner in my book..
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Heat it and beat it!. :roll: Thats what I had to do when mine got stuck. Heated up the tilt tube with a propane torch and beat on the rod end with a dead blow hammer. You can get the lead shot filled plastic coated ones at Harbor freight pretty cheap. Don't hit it with a steel hammer you'll just mushroom the end of the rod. A brass hammer might work too. You can also protect the end of the rod with a hunk of 3/4" starboard. Also spray the crap out of it with PB blaster and let it soak for a day or two.
Or do what my buddy did 2 weeks ago when we fought his on a 150 Black Max: Get irritated/impatient, start cutting things until you have pieces that come out of where you're trying to get them out, and the next day have to go purchase a steering cable, a helm and tilt tube for your motor. Actually the helm purchase was optional, he was looking to upgrade. The tilt tube and cable, on the other hand, suffered a terrible ending at the hands of a big torch, a big grinder and a realllllly big hammer; those were not optional purchases. Took 2 hours to get that new tilt tube in, and that was with 2 good size men trying to man-handle the motor where it needed to be. I'm assuming we were missing them, but we couldn't find the first suitable pick-point on that Black Max to be able to use his hoist to help us hold the motor.
I'd say I witnessed a lesson in how NOT to fix hung up steering on an outboard.
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Heat it and beat it!. :roll: Thats what I had to do when mine got stuck. Heated up the tilt tube with a propane torch and beat on the rod end with a dead blow hammer. You can get the lead shot filled plastic coated ones at Harbor freight pretty cheap. Don't hit it with a steel hammer you'll just mushroom the end of the rod. A brass hammer might work too. You can also protect the end of the rod with a hunk of 3/4" starboard. Also spray the crap out of it with PB blaster and let it soak for a day or two.
Or do what my buddy did 2 weeks ago when we fought his on a 150 Black Max: Get irritated/impatient, start cutting things until you have pieces that come out of where you're trying to get them out, and the next day have to go purchase a steering cable, a helm and tilt tube for your motor. Actually the helm purchase was optional, he was looking to upgrade. The tilt tube and cable, on the other hand, suffered a terrible ending at the hands of a big torch, a big grinder and a realllllly big hammer; those were not optional purchases. Took 2 hours to get that new tilt tube in, and that was with 2 good size men trying to man-handle the motor where it needed to be. I'm assuming we were missing them, but we couldn't find the first suitable pick-point on that Black Max to be able to use his hoist to help us hold the motor.
I'd say I witnessed a lesson in how NOT to fix hung up steering on an outboard.
I got a pretty good image in my head of that evolution.. :lol: I'd say the only thing left out was the 12-pack for mechanic lubrication..
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LOL been there done that! Good advice Dburr on the lead. I omited the fact that you just want to heat the tube up enough to melt the grease... so another good point.
To lift a Merc with a hoist you need a lifting ring that threads into the flywheel.
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Right on Bruce!!
Lifting ring/flywheel puller is about $30 on eBay... I have this little gem and for the price of 3 GOOD beers it is worth it!!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mercury-Mariner ... c4&vxp=mtr (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mercury-Mariner-Flywheel-Puller-91-849154T1-Lift-Ring-91-90455-1-Lifting-Eye-/271386340548?pt=Boat_Parts_Accessories_Gear&hash=item3f2fe2ecc4&vxp=mtr)
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Guys, you can always jury rig some stout rope or ratchet straps properly placed on the underside of the PH to lift her up with a hoist. I even used dock lines to raise a couple of 115 Etecs one hole... :shock:
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Guys, you can always jury rig some stout rope or ratchet straps properly placed on the underside of the PH to lift her up with a hoist. I even used dock lines to raise a couple of 115 Etecs one hole... :shock:
We looked at slinging it under the powerhead, but no matter which way we tried to do it, the weight was going to end up smooshing something bolted to the sides of the powerhead that didn't look like it wanted to be smooshed.
We also figured flywheel was the way, but short of just threading a bolt into a link of chain, we didn't have what we needed on-hand to accomplish that.
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We also figured flywheel was the way, but short of just threading a bolt into a link of chain
That only works for some folks.
viewtopic.php?p=113506#p113506 (http://www.classicaquasport.com/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?p=113506#p113506)
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My buddy's Black Max looks like it just came off of the showroom floor and its like a 1990 model. That being the case, he doesn't unbolt anything unless absolutely necessary. Doesn't want to chip his paint. That was his argument for not using chain and bolts.
If were at my house, with one of my less-than-showroom motors, we'd have had her hanging from either an engine hoist or the tractor bucket quicker than spit. But this was his house, and his [angry] project. I was just drinking a beer and "helping" where I could.
Did I mention that this juiced up Black Max came off of a 63mph bass boat and we were rigging it on 19' Carolina Skiff when the steering cable was determined to need replacing. Quite possibly one of the faster Carolina Skiffs on the water. Breaks over on plane as soon as you bump the motor off idle.
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We'll after a few hours and $30, I was able to get the rod all the way in the tilt tube with MAP torch, and combo of crowbar and mallet. Problem is I couldn't get it any farther than the tilt tube, it got stuck in there. I most have mushroomed the end a bit of course despite all warnings. I guess it's time to take it to the pros. I'm assuming they'll have to cut cable and replace tilt tube and cable.
What do you think is a good rate for this work?
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Can you post a picture of what you have so far? When you say all the way in, is the tiller swivel end in the tilt tube now?
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I didn't take a picture I was too frustrated yesterday. The tiller swivel is in the tilt tube, the rod is barely protruding out the starboard side now
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Okay so I have come to accept that I will be buying a new stainless steel tilt tube, new steering cable, and of course the steering nut for applying oil. I will be better off in the end, and can hopefully put the issue to rest for good!
The question is now, do I take it into the shop or attempt to do it myself. I have no hoist or good place to hoist it for that matter. However, I am thinking, and have read, that a hoist might not even be necessary. I'm thinking if I start moving the old tilt tube out, and put the new one in where the old one is coming out, I can just replace it pretty easily. I would stabilize the engine with it trimmed all the way down and the skeg on a board and a couple big guys there to push it ever so slightly as necessary to get the holes to line up.
Has anyone on here ever done this? Am I crazy to consider it?
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Sorry to hear you're throwing in the towel. :(
Has anyone on here ever done this? Am I crazy to consider it?
I've done a few tilt tube replacements while the engine hangs on the transom b/c I have never had a sufficiently provisioned shop to take advantage of a hoist. NOT fun, but definitely doable. Once the bad tube is out, the hardest part is making sure you keep the holes in the motor mount brackets and the swivel bracket perfectly aligned. If they shift, you run the risk of crushing the flanged plastic grease bushing that lives on the outer faces of the swivel bracket or the stainless thrust washers that separate the arms from the swivel bracket when you push/tap in the new tilt tube. Examine a schematic for your engine (http://www.boats.net/parts/search/BRP/JOHNSON/1990/VJ90TLESB/MIDSECTION/parts.html) carefully so you see what parts are located where, and feel free to give it a shot if you're inclined. Be prepared to utter more than a couple curse words as you go. It's not rocket science, and you don't need a fancy lift as long as your tilt and trim are working properly (important to help you realign the holes if your initial blocking down at the skeg shifts at all), but a second set of strong hands certainly helps when you're holding the parts together or trying to adjust the alignments by millimeters.
Good luck. :salut:
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Agreed with Ryan in regards to another set of hands...or 2. Even a smallish 90 or 115 weighs in at around 275-300 lbs, and wrestling that kind of weight into position...and holding it there, takes some muscle...