Classic AquaSport
Aquasport Mechanicals - things that need a wrench, screwdriver or multimeter => Engines & engine woes => Topic started by: Woodeneye on February 03, 2014, 11:57:54 PM
-
Hi all, I'm hoping the collective wisdom in here can give me a few suggestions on how to diagnose & fix a issue with the above. At the dock last weekend on start up I got a buzzer alarm. What's weird is that it started and ran fine with no alarms the day before on the muffs. The VRO is disconnected and I premix, so it can't be the oil alarm. The fuel tank has no sender, so low fuel has never been a issue before. The alarm sounded continuously right away so it couldn't be a overheat issue? Could it? Water pump seemed to be working just fine, nothing running hot....however..... I did notice the choke toggle "stick" a little (as in it didn't flick back to off straight away as usual) and the ignition action was also a little "stiff". Also, my deadmans lanyard has never worked, since I've had the boat (I know, I know, get it fixed). Could this be causing problems? I'm guessing the Ignition/choke switch is original, its one where the ignition, choke toggle and deadmans are all arrayed vertically one under the other on the same panel roughy 4" x 6"
Any way i can test the ignition/choke switch? Or just swap it out? Appreciate any input. Thanks in advance.
-
Tough one.
I have a manual for this year at home and I'll look at the warnings. I don't believe there is any kind of "low fuel" warning other than the motor quits running, rather a low fuel pressure. All your fuel filters clean? Might be that or...
Sounds like a low oil alarm but you don't use the oil tank(s), still.....................
Are you sure you disconnected everything? :scratch:
-
Most engines of the era have some kind of warning module in between the temp sensor and low oil sensor that closes to ground and causes the horn to sound. I would suspect a bad warning module or your temp switch in the cylinder head is bad. You could disconnect the warning module but then you lose the audible overheat protection.
-
Tough one.
I have a manual for this year at home and I'll look at the warnings. I don't believe there is any kind of "low fuel" warning other than the motor quits running, rather a low fuel pressure. All your fuel filters clean? Might be that or...
Sounds like a low oil alarm but you don't use the oil tank(s), still.....................
Are you sure you disconnected everything? :scratch:
Thanks i'd appreciate you looking. Yep I'm sure the VRO has been disconnected properly. Its been operating fine for some time. I will have another look at the fuel filters.
So no one suspects a bad ignition switch?
Cheers
-
Most engines of the era have some kind of warning module in between the temp sensor and low oil sensor that closes to ground and causes the horn to sound. I would suspect a bad warning module or your temp switch in the cylinder head is bad. You could disconnect the warning module but then you lose the audible overheat protection.
Thanks I'll have a scratch around.
-
OK Wood.
From what I can see in the manual, the buzzer is activated in 3 manners.
1: Low oil in tank
2: "Over revving" of engine
3: Overheating
Since you seem to have eliminated (by your posts) the "low oil tank" and it appears not to be an over rev condition, that leaves overheating which is triggered by a thermal switch activated by excessive heat and when closed, grounds the buzzer circuit (black ground/pink buzzer). You may want to check these switches first. Continuity between the black and pink wire on the switch would indicate a fault at start, thus activating the buzzer. Two switches, one for each bank.
Do you have a multi-function gauge with tach and warning lights?
-
OK Wood.
From what I can see in the manual, the buzzer is activated in 3 manners.
1: Low oil in tank
2: "Over revving" of engine
3: Overheating
Since you seem to have eliminated (by your posts) the "low oil tank" and it appears not to be an over rev condition, that leaves overheating which is triggered by a thermal switch activated by excessive heat and when closed, grounds the buzzer circuit (black ground/pink buzzer). You may want to check these switches first. Continuity between the black and pink wire on the switch would indicate a fault at start, thus activating the buzzer. Two switches, one for each bank.
Do you have a multi-function gauge with tach and warning lights?
All right Capt Bob! great stuff....I do the have Yamaha digital multi function gauges. I was playing around with the boat just this afternoon and I noticed a bar flashing over the oil can icon. :pale: when the buzzer went off. So in the absence of a manual or any info on the WWW I'm assuming this is a oil alarm. What is weird about this is that the VRO has been disconnected for an age. It has never alarmed before. Are there any circumstances where it would randomly start alarming again? (or would this flash anyway when the VRO is disconnected??)
I ran it for a while this afternoon and the cooling system was going strong and the heads only got warm to the touch. I also pulled the PRV and the thermostats and all looked just fine.
As an aside I noticed the Deadmans lanyard switch has had a one of its wires cut, white in colour (earth?), by the previous owner, which may explain why it doesn't work. :oops:
-
I do the have Yamaha digital multi function gauges. I was playing around with the boat just this afternoon and I noticed a bar flashing over the oil can icon. :pale: when the buzzer went off. So in the absence of a manual or any info on the WWW I'm assuming this is a oil alarm. What is weird about this is that the VRO has been disconnected for an age. It has never alarmed before. Are there any circumstances where it would randomly start alarming again? (or would this flash anyway when the VRO is disconnected??)
If the oil injection system was functional, that would indicate that the engine was overheating for some reason so.......
First, if just the light (triangle shaped?) above the "oil can"(in the lower middle of the display) comes on, it indicates that the "reserve tank" (mounted away from the engine) oil level is too low to transfer to the "main tank"(under the cowling). One needs to add oil to this tank.
When that light is coupled with a buzzing alarm, it indicates a power head overheat condition.
Your oil system has been disabled so....
Are the reserve and main tanks and the float switches inside each still in place?
If so, a switch now may be sending a signal to the oil module itself (this is the module Fitz was addressing earlier).
This module sends the signal to both the buzzer and the multi-function display and could also be your trouble point.
A manual with a wiring diagram would go a long way in helping sort it out.
As an aside I noticed the Deadmans lanyard switch has had a one of its wires cut, white in colour (earth?), by the previous owner, which may explain why it doesn't work. :oops:
The switch acts as a grounding device to kill the engine (ignition). Depressed with the clip and lanyard, and then attached to the operator, it might save your bacon if you fall overboard. That stated, it needs to be depressed(clip in place) when you crank the engine in order for the switch to function. . You can start the engine with the clip removed on OMC units but I never tried on my Yamaha. The white wire you see would allow the ground circuit to be completed after the engine starts and then the clip was removed. Maybe on the Yamaha, that white wire needs to be disabled for it to start. :scratch: You could try reconnecting the wire and see if the motor starts without the clip(I'm thinking it might) but you will definitely need to reattach it to the switch if you plan on using the kill switch function.
Good luck
-
Thanks for your assistance thus far. The oil tank and reserve are no longer installed. There are just a couple of vacant wire harnesses where the the tanks once were.
Seeing how the tanks and float switches are no longer installed and thus disconnected is it possible the no oil alarm would still sound and get a display warning on the multifunction gauge as well?
-
Thanks for your assistance thus far.
Our pleasure. :salut:
The oil tank and reserve are no longer installed. There are just a couple of vacant wire harnesses where the the tanks once were.
Ah, the plot thickens. :o
Seeing how the tanks and float switches are no longer installed and thus disconnected is it possible the no oil alarm would still sound and get a display warning on the multifunction gauge as well?
Yes, because of the "oil sensor module" that Fitz spoke to in his post. This module activates both the light and buzzer from signals (grounding) of the float (or thermal, I believe) switches themselves. Since the float (oil) switches are gone I'd venture to say that the module now becomes a main suspect. I'd guess it has not been removed or still (depending on year) may even be located within the CDI unit itself so.....
Locating the module is the next step. A couple of pics of the engine would help to see if we can find it in the service manual.
Just a thought.
-
Apples and Oranges but I've replaced them on all my older Mercs for the same reason. My hot horns would start to randomly chirp and then start sounding steadily and then stop and start again for no reason after completely checking all systems for oil and temp issues without any findings including replacing the keyswitches. The new modules fixed the problem. Both of my twin 115's were doing it within a month or so of one another. Mine were separate modules from the ignition CDI unit so hopefully that is the case for your Yamaha.
-
Thanks for your assistance thus far.
Our pleasure. :salut:
The oil tank and reserve are no longer installed. There are just a couple of vacant wire harnesses where the the tanks once were.
Ah, the plot thickens. :o
Seeing how the tanks and float switches are no longer installed and thus disconnected is it possible the no oil alarm would still sound and get a display warning on the multifunction gauge as well?
Yes, because of the "oil sensor module" that Fitz spoke to in his post. This module activates both the light and buzzer from signals (grounding) of the float (or thermal, I believe) switches themselves. Since the float (oil) switches are gone I'd venture to say that the module now becomes a main suspect. I'd guess it has not been removed or still (depending on year) may even be located within the CDI unit itself so.....
Locating the module is the next step. A couple of pics of the engine would help to see if we can find it in the service manual.
Just a thought.
This electrics caper is all voodoo to me...... :? I shall attempt to post photos/and or locate a module.
-
Apples and Oranges but I've replaced them on all my older Mercs for the same reason. My hot horns would start to randomly chirp and then start sounding steadily and then stop and start again for no reason after completely checking all systems for oil and temp issues without any findings including replacing the keyswitches. The new modules fixed the problem. Both of my twin 115's were doing it within a month or so of one another. Mine were separate modules from the ignition CDI unit so hopefully that is the case for your Yamaha.
When you say "modules" are you referring to the buzzer/alarm unit itself?? Cuz that is separate from the ignition switch panel on mine and easily accessed.
-
Apples and Oranges but I've replaced them on all my older Mercs for the same reason. My hot horns would start to randomly chirp and then start sounding steadily and then stop and start again for no reason after completely checking all systems for oil and temp issues without any findings including replacing the keyswitches. The new modules fixed the problem. Both of my twin 115's were doing it within a month or so of one another. Mine were separate modules from the ignition CDI unit so hopefully that is the case for your Yamaha.
When you say "modules" are you referring to the buzzer/alarm unit itself?? Cuz that is separate from the ignition switch panel on mine and easily accessed.
This would be under the engine cowling and may be nothing more than a small black box with some wires coming out of it. Locate the temp switch wire from the cylinder heads and see where that wire goes. It should connect to a module. This has nothing to do with the dash, switch panel or actual horn/buzzer.
-
Look under cowling either by missing oil reservoir or by the ECU, there should be a grey toggle switch. This is contained in your oil module. If it is separate, try disconnecting it. If it is on the ECU, you will need a new/used ECU i'm sorry to say.
-
Apples and Oranges but I've replaced them on all my older Mercs for the same reason. My hot horns would start to randomly chirp and then start sounding steadily and then stop and start again for no reason after completely checking all systems for oil and temp issues without any findings including replacing the keyswitches. The new modules fixed the problem. Both of my twin 115's were doing it within a month or so of one another. Mine were separate modules from the ignition CDI unit so hopefully that is the case for your Yamaha.
When you say "modules" are you referring to the buzzer/alarm unit itself?? Cuz that is separate from the ignition switch panel on mine and easily accessed.
This would be under the engine cowling and may be nothing more than a small black box with some wires coming out of it. Locate the temp switch wire from the cylinder heads and see where that wire goes. It should connect to a module. This has nothing to do with the dash, switch panel or actual horn/buzzer.
OK excellent stuff. I'll get on it today. Thank you.
-
OK Wood,
Let's see if we can make some progress.
First, please let us know a little about your model Yamaha. I do know it's a 1988 V-6 model but give me a little more, like displacement and ignition system. I apologize because I left the manual at my office so I can't remember the Yamaha nomenclature for their fancy computer system of that era and again some pics.
In the mean time here are a couple from my old beast.
First, my oil module is located in the CDI (I don't have the fancy computer ign. system)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/DSC06495.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8961&title=dsc06495&cat=500)
Yes it's blurred but remember, it's the thought that counts :mrgreen:
Please notice the toggle switch located just above the "coil" that supplies power to the spark plug (it has the word OK on it) That switch is used to transfer oil from the remote oil tank to the main tank on the engine. Therefore MY Module is located within the CDI unit (the switch is mounted to the CDI cover). Since yours is older, you may have a separate module (as Futch referred to) located in this general area.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/DSC06496.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8962&title=dsc06496&cat=500)
That is my main oil tank (yes it's is currently covered in mold and will remain so till spring :roll: )
Your switch may, in fact be located below and to the right of where your tank once was.
Again pics in this area will help.
Lastly, studying the wiring diagram seems to indicate that a thermal switch for an overheat condition (think water circulation) might trigger the light (and the buzzer of course). I'm not sure it does so....
Can you please post pics of the multi-function gauge(s) you have.
Thanks.
-
Wow Capt. Bob. Talk about going that extra yard. You are a legend.
Please bear in mind I'm feeling my way here a bit. Diesels I'm a little more versed in. These O/B's are serious voodoo to me :scratch: Though I have just taken delivery of a Seloc manual so hopefully I shan't be flying that blind from here on.
I'm struggling to find accurate info re. specs other than it is 225HP. I'll keep looking. Sorry. The manual says (this maybe generic info for all models covered (84-96) in this manual), it has the YMIS which is Yamaha's version of CDI.
I have photos of the motor and gauges and will attempt to upload them tonight (its 1.15pm Friday here now 9.15pm Thursday there), right now I have to race off to a meeting.
Stick with me, I'm not a complete gumby and will, with your, help work this out.
Good man.
Cheers,
Woodeneye.
-
Capt. Bob. You are a legend.
In Perrine Fla. maybe...
Here, not so much. :shock:
The manual says it has the YMIS which is Yamaha's version of CDI.
The YMIS adds a "computer/microprocessor" to the standard CDI ignition system. While the engines share a similar design CDI, yours has the added features of control to the engine when running my model doesn't have. I make light of this because the YMIS may be playing a roll in your situation but I wouldn't go down that path until you eliminate the e-z stuff.
I have photos of the motor and gauges and will attempt to upload them tonight (its 1.15pm Friday here now 9.15pm Thursday there).
Excellent. :thumleft:
-
I had the same engine only it was a 1989 225 Exel, I would quess pretty much the same as a 88
Bob, heres a couple photos of the oil switch from the Exel model, separate switch from the computer
(http://i731.photobucket.com/albums/ww317/bondobill/IMG0010CS-0341-P_Parts2009-06-07_11-47-32SOURCE-CAM1_zps2eadb26f.jpg) (http://s731.photobucket.com/user/bondobill/media/IMG0010CS-0341-P_Parts2009-06-07_11-47-32SOURCE-CAM1_zps2eadb26f.jpg.html)
(http://i731.photobucket.com/albums/ww317/bondobill/IMG0012CS-0341-P_Parts2009-06-07_11-47-44SOURCE-CAM1_zps3e92c52b.jpg) (http://s731.photobucket.com/user/bondobill/media/IMG0012CS-0341-P_Parts2009-06-07_11-47-44SOURCE-CAM1_zps3e92c52b.jpg.html)
Wish I could be of more help but.....
Just threw the entire engine out 3 weeks ago, darn thing was under my work bench for 4 years
Only time I ever had the alarm sound on start up was after I sucked up some kelp around the lower unit, after removing the kelp and letting engine cool down I restarted engine and the buzzer went for a minute or so until it resets.
Bill
-
Thanks Bill.
I'm betting Wood's looks the same. What has me wondering is that he states the middle light (over the oil can) is lit with the buzzer sound. That combination would indicate an overheat condition in progress and a low level in the remote tank. Since he no longer has the tank (but the light is on) I was thinking the module/switch was somehow sending a false signal to the gauge and buzzer.
The oil float switches in the tanks are wired to illuminate the warning lights for low oil situations. The buzzer sounds when the overheat condition appears. That is monitored via the thermal switches. On the YMIS system and additional sensor is present that acts as the fail safe for overheating at high rpm and it too sounds the buzzer but also reduces the engine rpm. It reduces the rpm until the temps return to normal and at that time the buzzer quits. Neat stuff for an older outboard motor.
Thanks again for the photo. :thumright:
-
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_2851.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8966&title=yamaha-v6-excel-xg-225hp&cat=500)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_2850.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8965&title=yamaha-v6-excel-xg-225hp&cat=500)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_2849.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8964&title=yamaha-v6-excel-xg-225hp&cat=500)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_2845.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8963&title=yamaha-v6-excel-xg-225hp&cat=500)
Here you go Cap'n. As you can see no oil tank..........
-
Wood,
Is it possible to get a pic of the tach with the engine running?
Thanks.
EDIT: Ohhhhh..... That's a mid 90's gauge coupled on to an 88 model motor. :o
The warning lighting goes out the window with the oil tanks(and the module/switch) so......
Since the buzzer is going off at start, I would first check both thermal switches and see if either (or possibly both) are functioning(this goes all the way back to the third post by Fitz 8) )
Have you driven the boat at all with the buzzer sounding or is it just on the flush muffs?
You can see one of the switches in this photo (yours) close to the top of the bank. A quick check would be to disconnect the wires and check for non-continuity between the switch wires.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_2850.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8965&title=yamaha-v6-excel-xg-225hp&cat=500)
-
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/Thermo_Switch.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8968&title=thermo-switch&cat=500)
Is this the thermo switch?
-
Wood,
Is it possible to get a pic of the tach with the engine running?
Thanks.
EDIT: Ohhhhh..... That's a mid 90's gauge coupled on to an 88 model motor. :o
The warning lighting goes out the window with the oil tanks(and the module/switch) so......
Since the buzzer is going off at start, I would first check both thermal switches and see if either (or possibly both) are functioning(this goes all the way back to the third post by Fitz 8) )
Have you driven the boat at all with the buzzer sounding or is it just on the flush muffs?
You can see one of the switches in this photo (yours) close to the top of the bank. A quick check would be to disconnect the wires and check for non-continuity between the switch wires.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_2850.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8965&title=yamaha-v6-excel-xg-225hp&cat=500)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/Tach.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8967&title=tach&cat=500)
Picture of Tach with motor running. Excuse the quality. Its a still from a video.
-
Wood,
Is it possible to get a pic of the tach with the engine running?
Thanks.
EDIT: Ohhhhh..... That's a mid 90's gauge coupled on to an 88 model motor. :o
The warning lighting goes out the window with the oil tanks(and the module/switch) so......
Since the buzzer is going off at start, I would first check both thermal switches and see if either (or possibly both) are functioning(this goes all the way back to the third post by Fitz 8) )
Have you driven the boat at all with the buzzer sounding or is it just on the flush muffs?
You can see one of the switches in this photo (yours) close to the top of the bank. A quick check would be to disconnect the wires and check for non-continuity between the switch wires.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_2850.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8965&title=yamaha-v6-excel-xg-225hp&cat=500)
Yes I have driven the boat with the buzzer sounding once I had established that it wasn't a oil issue & it wasn't overheating. Could a stuck thermostat cause an alarm or is the buzzer purely temp related? For clarity, you don't think this could be a bad buzzer or ignition switch?
-
OK Wood,
1: Yes, that is one of the thermal switches (one for each bank).
2: The oil level lights that are "on" in the pic of the tach with the engine running are the same when you just turn on the key so.....
It appears following the wiring diagram for your motor that the yellow wire to the buzzer is hot on start and the pink completes the circuit to ground via the thermal switch(s). Since they are so easy to get at, I would eliminate them first as the cause. If you have an ohm meter, you can check the continuity (you should have none) between the wires to the switch. If not, disconnect the wires (to both switches) and start the engine and listen for the buzzer.
A stuck thermostat, probably would result in an overheat condition, thus triggering the thermal switch but the stat itself has no electrical connection to activate the buzzer.
A bad buzzer?
Well I guess it's possible that the buzzer itself shorted to ground but I'd bet that if a buzzer mechanism failed, it would be in the direction of "no sound".
A shorted wire (pink I'm thinking) could be doing it also.
Ignition switch? I don't see a wiring pattern to suggest that.
This same "pink to ground" wire also is routed back to the "control unit" that is missing from your motor. That allowed the buzzer to sound when the "low oil" level light was triggered. Again, when this stuff was removed and that wire disconnected, where did it end up? Could it be shorting to the motor after lying for some time under the cowling?
Try unplugging each switch then starting the motor. That's a quick and easy check.
Good luck. :thumleft:
-
OK Wood,
1: Yes, that is one of the thermal switches (one for each bank).
2: The oil level lights that are "on" in the pic of the tach with the engine running are the same when you just turn on the key so.....
It appears following the wiring diagram for your motor that the yellow wire to the buzzer is hot on start and the pink completes the circuit to ground via the thermal switch(s). Since they are so easy to get at, I would eliminate them first as the cause. If you have an ohm meter, you can check the continuity (you should have none) between the wires to the switch. If not, disconnect the wires (to both switches) and start the engine and listen for the buzzer.
A stuck thermostat, probably would result in an overheat condition, thus triggering the thermal switch but the stat itself has no electrical connection to activate the buzzer.
A bad buzzer?
Well I guess it's possible that the buzzer itself shorted to ground but I'd bet that if a buzzer mechanism failed, it would be in the direction of "no sound".
A shorted wire (pink I'm thinking) could be doing it also.
Ignition switch? I don't see a wiring pattern to suggest that.
This same "pink to ground" wire also is routed back to the "control unit" that is missing from your motor. That allowed the buzzer to sound when the "low oil" level light was triggered. Again, when this stuff was removed and that wire disconnected, where did it end up? Could it be shorting to the motor after lying for some time under the cowling?
Try unplugging each switch then starting the motor. That's a quick and easy check.
Good luck. :thumleft:
So....It does not appear to be anything to do with the thermo sensors. Nor their wiring. All checks out fine. I even checked the thermo sensors for the hell of it.
So given (?) an alarm only sounds in 3 scenarios,
1. Low oil (can't be, VRO disconnected and system removed) and I now premix.
2. It's not over revving
3. Its not overheating....alarm sounds straight away anyway...
.....it must be a grounded wire somewhere? Right? or am I missing something else that would cause an alarm?
Oh BTW here is the capacity...duh...was staring me in the face.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_2868.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9011&title=img-2868&cat=500)
And also...I've noticed on the fuel gauge that a bar is flashing over the fuel icon on the gauge...another possible cause of the alarm?? :scratch:
Might be time to call in the cavalry.....Im struggling with my skill set...though I've have learnt a heap. Thanks so much for your help thus far.
Cheers,
Woodenye
-
it must be a grounded wire somewhere? Right? or am I missing something else that would cause an alarm?
Try disconnecting the pink wire from the buzzer itself. Turn on the key, the alarm should no longer sound.
Now, Turn of the key switch, attach your ohm meter red lead to the disconnected pink wire and touch the black lead to a good ground. Check continuity.
When working properly, you should read "0". If you show continuity then yes, something is causing the pink wire to ground. Now you need to trace that back and see if you can find what/where.
Challenging but not impossible.
Another question. Does your trim gauge work?
And also...I've noticed on the fuel gauge that a bar is flashing over the fuel icon on the gauge...another possible cause of the alarm?? :scratch:
That's a normal alert for a "low fuel" condition. I don't believe it sounds the buzzer but..................
Those are the newer type digital gauges. I don't have my manual at work but let me see what I can find. Don't go to the shop just yet. :idea:
Good hunting. :thumright:
-
it must be a grounded wire somewhere? Right? or am I missing something else that would cause an alarm?
Try disconnecting the pink wire from the buzzer itself. Turn on the key, the alarm should no longer sound.
Now, Turn of the key switch, attach your ohm meter red lead to the disconnected pink wire and touch the black lead to a good ground. Check continuity.
When working properly, you should read "0". If you show continuity then yes, something is causing the pink wire to ground. Now you need to trace that back and see if you can find what/where.
Challenging but not impossible.
Another question. Does your trim gauge work?
And also...I've noticed on the fuel gauge that a bar is flashing over the fuel icon on the gauge...another possible cause of the alarm?? :scratch:
That's a normal alert for a "low fuel" condition. I don't believe it sounds the buzzer but..................
Those are the newer type digital gauges. I don't have my manual at work but let me see what I can find. Don't go to the shop just yet. :idea:
Good hunting. :thumright:
Cap'n Bob... when I disconnect the pink wire the alarm continues to sound....I've attached a photo of the way the buzzer is hooked up. All look kosher?
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_2872.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9019&title=img-2872&cat=500)
-
Another question. Does your trim gauge work?
Nope
-
Cap'n Bob... when I disconnect the pink wire the alarm continues to sound....I've attached a photo of the way the buzzer is hooked up. All look kosher?
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_2872.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9019&title=img-2872&cat=500)
Wish you would of posted this pic originally, That is an OMC 3 wire warning horn. Replace horn and problem should be fixed. They are known to go bad and buzz all the time when key is turned on.
-
Wish you would of posted this pic originally, That is an OMC 3 wire warning horn. Replace horn and problem should be fixed. They are known to go bad and buzz all the time when key is turned on.
Here's the two wire Yamaha horn on my 91(upper right corner)
(http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff108/r-berlin/InstrumentPanel2.jpg?t=1255306672)
That will solve the buzz. The trim indicator on the digital gauge (tach) is not as easy.
-
Cap'n Bob... when I disconnect the pink wire the alarm continues to sound....I've attached a photo of the way the buzzer is hooked up. All look kosher?
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_2872.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9019&title=img-2872&cat=500)
Wish you would of posted this pic originally, That is an OMC 3 wire warning horn. Replace horn and problem should be fixed. They are known to go bad and buzz all the time when key is turned on.
opps. Many sorrys.
-
Wish you would of posted this pic originally, That is an OMC 3 wire warning horn. Replace horn and problem should be fixed. They are known to go bad and buzz all the time when key is turned on.
Here's the two wire Yamaha horn on my 91(upper right corner)
(http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff108/r-berlin/InstrumentPanel2.jpg?t=1255306672)
That will solve the buzz. The trim indicator on the digital gauge (tach) is not as easy.
Ok. Great stuff. I'll get on it. Thank you again.
-
Cap'n Bob... when I disconnect the pink wire the alarm continues to sound....I've attached a photo of the way the buzzer is hooked up. All look kosher?
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_2872.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9019&title=img-2872&cat=500)
Wish you would of posted this pic originally, That is an OMC 3 wire warning horn. Replace horn and problem should be fixed. They are known to go bad and buzz all the time when key is turned on.
Didn't mean for that reply to sound that short. You can go back with another OMC horn, or go with a Yamaha one. Both are now 2 wire horns. Get rid of the grd wire and yellow is Key on pwr and the pink is the sender wire. Hope this fixes the horn problem. Trim guage problem is probably the sender on the motor. They have a habit of corroding so the lever will not move. This is probably the reason the oil system was removed because oil won't transfer when motor is "tilted" as the ground reference feeds thru the trim sender.
-
No worries...you were right anyways...I SHOULD have posted that photo earlier.
So I've swapped out the buzzer/horn with a new Yamaha 2 wire one. Its stopped buzzing....how do I check if it is actually operational? I tested it prior on a battery and it worked fine. Also just tape off the old redundant black ground and leave it?
I'm seriously considering replacing the whole ignition switch with a new one (kill switch doesn't work either) where you push the key to choke (mine is the toggle type) but it isn't a simple plug & play with no fast connects anywhere or a wire harness. I was going to try and get the trim gauge to work as well and try and cancel out that oil can icon that keeps flashing. Worth it? Or should I leave well enough alone as it may become a can of worms?
-
No worries...you were right anyways...I SHOULD have posted that photo earlier.
So I've swapped out the buzzer/horn with a new Yamaha 2 wire one. Its stopped buzzing....how do I check if it is actually operational? I tested it prior on a battery and it worked fine. Also just tape off the old redundant black ground and leave it?
I'm seriously considering replacing the whole ignition switch with a new one (kill switch doesn't work either) where you push the key to choke (mine is the toggle type) but it isn't a simple plug & play with no fast connects anywhere or a wire harness. I was going to try and get the trim gauge to work as well and try and cancel out that oil can icon that keeps flashing. Worth it? Or should I leave well enough alone as it may become a can of worms?
To check the horn, disconnect the pink wire from the temp sensor and touch it to ground. Horn should sound. Yes just tape off the unused ground wire.
Look at the back of your key switch, if it has screw terminals on it, I hate to say it, but you are SOL with plug and play. Someone was to cheap to by OEM and cut the harness to put an aftermarket switch in. That is prolly why your kill switch is disconnected. If you follow the wire colors, you should be able to hook up a push to choke key switch in it.
Check the trim sender and see if it is frozen in the up position, or the lever is gone completely. Last time I checked, the sender was around $170.00, OEM. You might find it cheaper on the intardweb, but don't know for sure. I think to cancel out the oil light, you might have to jump some wires in the plug where the oil level sender goes to get to quit flashing. I would have to go to the wiring diagrams and try to remember what cancels out that light. I will not remove an oil system from a Yamaha. They are injected behind the carbs and the carbs are not metered for a premix, Also, there is to great a chance to induce air thru the disconnected oil system and lean a cylinder out. I have seen to many powerhead failures on motors with a disconnected oil system to warrant the hour or so labor you can get from disconnecting them.
Yamaha's oil system is too reliable to disconnect, When they do have a problem on a just released motor, they send a recall out and replace the possible defective part ie. HPDI's several years ago. The few failures I've seen on older models have been due to carbon clogging a duck bill (oil nozzle in the intake). This was caused by lack of maintenance, not the oil system.
-
Can't get the new horn to alarm when I ground the thermo sensors.... :shock:
So I think I figured out why the trim sensor isn't working..... wires are cut.
Clearly whoever rigged this boat didn't care or know too much. :ncool:
This is a photo of the back of the key switch panel....
Two questions should I re-rig the entire boats electrical?
Is a retro fit of the VRO feasible/worthwhile?
I think I'm entering can of worms territory here............
-
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_28801.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9049&title=img-28801&cat=500)
Back of key switch panel
-
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_2879.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9048&title=img-2879&cat=500)
Cut trim sensor wires
-
Cut trim sensor wires
Wood,
Review this thread.
viewtopic.php?p=73481#p73481 (http://www.classicaquasport.com/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?p=73481#p73481)
Take special note of the Link that Flounderpounder added to his post (several down) Follow that link and again review.
RickK replaced his older gauges with the newer type (like yours) and his trim gauge did not work (note the photo that shows his trim LCD is also fully lit). Yours is disconnected but you may find a way to make it work. The THT link seems to state otherwise but maybe Futch can chime in on this and several members may benefit. :idea:
You are right, you have a cobbled wiring set up going on and the newer type gauges IMHO, add to it.
Good luck :thumleft:
-
As stated in the THT link from FP's post, the 3 wire trim sender runs on a reference voltage and the newer senders and gauges run off potential to grd. I don't know of a way to get them to work together. The sender itself is still available from Yamaha for 196.40 MSRP. For the price of the sender, I would just turn around and look at the motor to see what position it's in. I always run my boat "by feel" as concerns the trim position. The only time I look at it is before take off or idling around in the shallows.
As for the horn... key on, ground pink wire to block, should sound horn. If not, then start following pink wire thru harness to horn and ground at each connection. With the way the harness has been cut and spliced, there is probably a bad spot some where in between.
You can reinstall the oil system, but not sure if you want to go to that expense, unless you still have the old oil system parts. I would gave a certified tech reinstall and check out for you if you go that route just to make sure everything is connected and working properly. That is one area you don't want to cut corners on. If the motor has been running for a couple of years with out the oil system, I would let it go. If it was just removed before you purchased, I would probably reinstall the system. Most of the failures we have seen have been within 6 months or so of removal of oil system.
-
As stated in the THT link from FP's post, the 3 wire trim sender runs on a reference voltage and the newer senders and gauges run off potential to grd. I don't know of a way to get them to work together.
Thanks for the conformation Futch. I spent some time tracking down the older style gauges(OEM on my 91) to replace my sun baked originals and avoid that (and any other) problem. Took some looking but I came across them.
-
As stated in the THT link from FP's post, the 3 wire trim sender runs on a reference voltage and the newer senders and gauges run off potential to grd. I don't know of a way to get them to work together. The sender itself is still available from Yamaha for 196.40 MSRP. For the price of the sender, I would just turn around and look at the motor to see what position it's in. I always run my boat "by feel" as concerns the trim position. The only time I look at it is before take off or idling around in the shallows.
As for the horn... key on, ground pink wire to block, should sound horn. If not, then start following pink wire thru harness to horn and ground at each connection. With the way the harness has been cut and spliced, there is probably a bad spot some where in between.
You can reinstall the oil system, but not sure if you want to go to that expense, unless you still have the old oil system parts. I would gave a certified tech reinstall and check out for you if you go that route just to make sure everything is connected and working properly. That is one area you don't want to cut corners on. If the motor has been running for a couple of years with out the oil system, I would let it go. If it was just removed before you purchased, I would probably reinstall the system. Most of the failures we have seen have been within 6 months or so of removal of oil system.
Hahaha. Turn around and look. Like it. What I have always done, but I just hate stuff not working or something that is done halfassed. Great thread...thanks Cap'n Bob. Thanks for the suggestion re: the horn Futch. All of the oil system bits are looong gone, I will let it slide. Think I'll get back to fishing and revisit all this coming winter. Thank you all so much for your help. Been terrific and most illuminating.
Cheers,
Woodeneye
-
Great thread...thanks Cap'n Bob. Thanks for the suggestion re: the horn Futch.
Agreed!! :cheers: Excellent educational thread! Nice work gents :salut: .