Classic AquaSport
Aquasport Mechanicals - things that need a wrench, screwdriver or multimeter => Fuel tanks and anything about fuel systems => Topic started by: laflelx on July 03, 2006, 12:38:13 AM
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I just filled up my 1972 22.2 Aquasport with 52 gallons of gas. I'm in Massachusetts and it's the first year for this 10% ethanol gas. I have read a good deal about it and thought I took all the right steps. I ran all the MBET gas out of the boat before filling up with 10% ethanol gas. I installed a new water seperating filter and fuel filter. Also have a couple spares on board.
We took the boat out for the first time to do some fishing this weekend. She ran well all day. Put on close to 25 miles. About 2 miles from the ramp the motor (200hp 1996 merc, oil injection system removed, pre-mixed gas/oil) stalled out. It fired back up but died out a soon as you gave it a little throttle. After changing out the filters, the boat ran the same. We had to limp back to the ramp at 6 mph. The motor sounds and feels like it's being starved for fuel. Could anything have made it past the filters to clog the injectors? Is there a screen in the gas tank that might be restricting flow?
Any suggestions would be appriciated.
Thanks, Larry
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Larry,
I would check the inline fuel filter. I know you said you replaced it but that's where I would start. Certainly is the cheapest place to start.
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Okay, now it's my turn!
Went out this morning and everything was fine until I opened her up. Engine dies. Won't start again. After draining Racor several times, I get it to the dock.
Long story short, the Racor fills quickly with a pinkish liquid that turns milky when it hits sea water. My tank is aluminum and is apprx 5-7 years old. I filled the tank last Monday.
I changed the Racor this morning after all this happened and although it continues to fill quickly, everything seems fine. I ran in circles for a 30 minutes or so and it runs as if nothing is wrong.
WTF? Bad Racor? Ethanol?
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I have a similar problem. When I went out last time it seemed like my motor was starving for fuel. It would not open up all the way and once I got it on plane for about 2 minutes it bogged down and cut off. I checked the water/fuel sep. Noticed I had gas going to the water/fuel sep. but none going to the motor. I guess it plugged up :?: When this happened I bypassed the water/fuel sep. and tried to crank it and it wouldn't hit a lick. Ended up having to be towed in :cry: Do my carbs need to be pulled and cleaned or just check the fuel filter and give it a try :?: I didn't know if the water/fuel sep. could have clogged up my carbs :?:
Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks,
John
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John,
How was your motor idling? Did it idle fine and then die under load?
After mine died, it would barely idle. Since I replaced the Racor it "seems" fine. Now of course I'm nervous.
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It seemed to idle good. I just couldn't get it to open up. When I would give it gas it just acted like it needed more and would bog down and stall out. At that point I noticed that I had no gas coming from the water/fuel sep. to the motor.
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You said you bypassed the Racor and still no fuel? If that is the case, it may be the fuel line.
Try bypassing the Racor and priming the bulb. If no fuel gets to bulb, there is something else going on besides the Racor Fuel/Water seperator.
I want to know what that pink crap is in my fuel......... :roll:
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Did I mention today is my first day out of bed all weekend? I'm going home. I can barely talk. No sense giving what I got to everyone here.
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Once I bypassed the water/fuel sep. the bulb did tighten up but I could never get the motor started again. It was very hot that day so I didn't try it long. Should I pull the carbs and clean :?:
I wish I had some suggestions for you, but if you are up and running that is great :!:
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Thanks for all the good info ! I think my next move is to disconnect the inline fuel filter, pump the bulb and see if I am getting fuel on the down stream side of the filter. Maybe the line is plugged. The guy at West Marine said he has customers in all day buying filters and fuel additives.
Tailgunner,
How's the fishing been around the Islands. I'm out of Waquoit Bay. We had a great day over on the east side of the Vineyard until the engine cut out. Caught a bunch of big blues on light tackle. I was hoping to try Quicks hole next weekend.
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My mechanic asked me NOT to use additives for my 2 stroke. He said he sees more issues from additives than anything else. Of course, your mileage may vary......
I checked my manual and it said can use "up to 10% ethanol". Here in MA that's what we're getting, 10%.
I'm going to buy several inline filters and another Racor and keep them onboard.
Fishing has been good. I hear Quick's and Robinson's are producing good sized Stripahs pre-dawn or at night. This time of year I like enticing them out of the rocks just before dawn. Blues are everywhere.
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So this is what I've tried so far. I disconnected the fuel line after the in-line filter. Then pumped the ball and found that I had great flow through the water separating filter and in-line filter. (Replaced them both anyway) I removed the spark plugs. The ends of the plugs were dark in color and a bit oily. I cleaned them up so they were shinny again. I'm not sure what fouled plugs look like but could this have been the cause of my engine problems? I can't seem to find any fuel blockage.
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So, is it running again?
I ran around last night for a couple of hours and I'm happy to report that replacing the Racor filter seems to have done the trick.
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I haven't run it yet. I hope to get it in the water tonight. I wanted to spend the time this afternoon changeing out some of the fuel lines that are showing some ware. I definately have not found a smoking gun. If the boat runs well, I'll have to assume it was the plugs. (I hope the fix is that easy but thats not the way my luck runs)
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Good luck and let us know how it goes.
Napa carries Racor filters under their own brand. $10. Worst Marine wants $23.
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Hey Tailgunner - I did a quick read on the Elizabeth Islands the other day to see where they are and wanted to ask you if you are one of the 86 permanent residents they say live there?
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What puzzles me about all this ethanol bru-haha, is that there aren't lines of cars pulled off at the side of the road with fuel feed problems.
From what I've read on the subject, ethanol appears to act as a solvent in a fuel system and puts any and all crud which is in the tank and lines into suspension. Until all the crud is filtered out in the fuel filter/water seperator, the problem will continue. Running without any filtration likely will foul-up jets and injectors. Best plan, as explained above, is to carry several spare filters. It's a nuisance having to change them frequently but the problem will go away after the ethanol has completed its mischief.
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Hey Tailgunner - I did a quick read on the Elizabeth Islands the other day to see where they are and wanted to ask you if you are one of the 86 permanent residents they say live there?
No. I am related to them but do not actually live on any of the islands. I do live VERY close though. :lol:
My Godfather lived on Cuttyhunk and was one of the few year round residents there. Always fun to visit him in Winter.
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Was you godfather a Tilton?
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Yup. AP Tilton in fact.
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Years & years ago I remember meeting Charlie Tilton... I think that was his first name. Back then though, it was simply Mr. Tilton to me since I was about seven or eight years old. Beautiful bass boats out there back then.
Is Norm still flying the hop from New Bedford to the inner pond?
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From what I understand Norm Jingrass (sp?) died and his son couldn't get it together. Every fly with Norm? Sick sense of humor. Leaving Cuttyhunk, he flew towrds those high pilings. "Not sure we're gonna make it. Get ready to jump." with a very serious look on his face. Another time he flew me to Woods Hole. "Got anybody you want to impress? I can drop you off at Garbage Beach".
AP fed me lobster one night when I was 8. "How do you like those $500 Lobsters?". I asked him if they really cost him $500. "No, but if my brother catches you with them, they're $500 each." Wilfred was the Game Warden at the time.
I don't remember Charlie.
Good times for sure.
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Game Warden his brother?
How convenient.
:wink:
I flew with Norm a few times and it was great fun. But the most memorable of Norm's entertainment was performed in the pond. We'd be peaceably moored in our sailboat having drinks and watch him line up on us down at the end by Tilton's dock. He'd come roaring up on the step pretty quickly but he'd hold the stick forward so he could execute one of his fabled snap take-offs right over the top of our mast. Hell, you could count the rivets. Some first-time guests we had aboard once were all set to jump overboard.
For those who knew Norm, he was loved. For others who simply saw him fly, he was feared.
As you said, those were good times, for sure.
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Well, no luck this weekend. The motor is still running rough and stalling out. Now it's backfiring too. Almost seems like too much fuel. Everything from the gas tank to the fuel pump checks out OK. Now I'm thinking it's either the fuel pump or the carb. I don't know how to troubleshoot or fix either one. I called to make an appointment with my mechanic. He is swamped with boats with fuel problems and can't even look at it for two weeks. I guess I'll continue to fish out of my kayak until then. My buddy and I paddled across Woods Hole and fished around Naushon Island Saturday morning. I didn't catch squat but my buddy landed a few nice stripers. It was his first Nantucket slay ride. As much fun as it is fishing out of the kayak, I WANT BY BOAT BACK !!!
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Sorry to hear that.
Just out of curiousity, who is your mechanic?
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I take my boat to Steves Mobile Marine in Grafton (near my house). I know a bunch of guys that have used him for years and say he's really good. He also is reasonably priced (65 per hr). I guess I'll find out how good he is. This springs tune-up was the first time he has worked on it. I would like to find a good mechanic down the Cape too. The way gas prices are, I hate having to trailer it all the way home.
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Simple test to see if the carb float valves are seating properly is to squeeze the primer bulb 8-10 times with the engine not running. If bulb firms up after several squeezings and stays firm, the float valves are good. If the bulb does not firm up after several squeezings, you either have a fuel leak somewhere or there's debris in the float valve orifice preventing it from seating. A fuel (air) leak likely will cause the engine to run lean and back-fire. A bad float valve will cause the engine to run over-rich. The carb that has the bad float valve will overflow gas.
Rebuilding carbs can be done in an hour or so. All you'll need is the kits, basic tools and compressed air. If no compressed air is available you can pick up a can of canned air at Staples.
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there was just a great article in a local fishing magazine about effects of ethanol. The author questions several mechanics on the issue, their biggest thing to notice was early deterioration and swelling of gaskets, fittings etc. much sooner than regular service intervals. What then? Since ethanol is not going away, the author concluded that newer motors were designed and tested w/ a 10% ethanol mix, so under ideal conditions it should not be TOO much of an issue. The problems will arise if an individual fill up location has a higher than 10% blend. AND the biggest enemy of the situation is WATER, ethanol, gas, and water separates much more than a gas and water mixture alone, that worse case situation the likely cause of catastrophic failure of the engine.
So what to do? He suggests being confident w/ your source of gas, and the best water separation system you can afford. He mentioned the racor one w/ the clear tray on the bottom(of course the most expensive one) I almost forgot, he also mentioned an additive by starbrite, that not being too costly and very small amounts needed, can't remember the name but will look it up
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Guys, I just read your posts and I am having the same exact trouble with my 175 Evinrude. Runs fantastic aside from when I put her under a load, she loses power and stalls out. I have to limp her home. I have tried evrything you folks mentioned and it seems better however I have nlt taken her out as of yet.
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He suggests being confident w/ your source of gas, and the best water separation system you can afford. He mentioned the racor one w/ the clear tray on the bottom(of course the most expensive one)
Racor filters are expensive but they are rated the best. They still equal only 1 hour of a mechanics hourly rate. I have them on my 222 and on my 15 footer. Cheap insurance IMHO.
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Well, it wasn't the fuel. It was a bad ignition switch box. There are two of them and one was bad. It was causing the engine to misfire. I had them both replaced. $600 ($450 in parts). She ran great out on the lake. We'll see how she does this weekend on the sound.
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Glad to hear you got it fixed. Sorry about the cost......
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The Saltwater Sportsman mag (Aug06) that I received in the mail yesterday had a pretty informative article on the new ethanol blend and what to expect and how to get around the issues.