Classic AquaSport
Aquasport Model Rebuilds, Mods, Updates and Refreshes => Generic Aquasport Rebuilding Topics => Topic started by: kaptainkoz on November 22, 2013, 08:16:01 PM
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(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_7232.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_7232.jpg.html)
Hello everyone,
im getting a fair amount of inquiries on how I made my hatches so I figured I would try to break it down step by step. Although there is a bit of an outline in my rebuild post, I have lived and learned and want to share how I would do them if I were to make them again. I want to make it clear this is my first attempt at mold making and I am in no way a professional or someone that should be giving advice. I tried it and it worked out for me and thats all im sharing. Im sure there are better ways to do this and if you know of any then please share your thoughts. I advise you watch a few YOUTUBE videos from a guy named "gasserglass" as his mold making videos were really good and taught me alot.
I will demonstrate the size that I made, overall 18 1/2 x 26 3/8. You can make them any size you want providing two things; you leave at least a 2 inch flange around the perimeter as enough materal to mount to a floor with, and the drain "triangle" is big enough to accomodate your drain.
1) The first and most important piece is the inner wooded piece which I will refer to as the "insert". Home depot had really nice 1.5 inch x 1.5 inch x 8 ft clear pine that was pin straight and blemish/knot free. One piece was enough for 1 mold. I set the table saw at 1/2 inch, then 1 inch and ran the piece through to create the cutout. I then set the blade at 5 degrees and ran the piece through again to add a taper. This adds to an easier mold release. You probably could run them straight without tapers as they should pop out as well. After the table saw, I took the full length and cleaned it up with sandpaper to really smooth them out and work out any saw blade marks. Once that piece is done set it aside for now.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/hatchinsertdimensionsaa.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/hatchinsertdimensionsaa.jpg.html)
2) Next cut a piece of material for the base. I like the white pressboard because it is relatively cheap, straight, no knots or grain, and the white finish is almost non stick without wax (but wax it anyway!!) for the base, material thickness doesnt matter but use something stiff enough to hold everything square and thats strong enough to hold up to the torque of finished product removal. Cut the piece to 18 1/2 x 26 3/8 (or 2" larger than the "inner box frame" which I will talk about later). (Displayed Below is plywood, but as mentioned these instructions are for what I would have done if doing them again. I advise using a stiff, non stick surface. On top of this plywood was the whiteboard, but plan modifications eliminate the ply now.)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/hatchmoldbaseplate.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/hatchmoldbaseplate.jpg.html)
3) next you want to make the inner box frame. The outside perimeter of this box represents the actual opening size. Take 3/4 white board and run it through a table saw creating a 2 inch wide plank. Cut this plank as you would a picture frame using 45 degree cuts, and then 22.5 degree cuts for the "drain triangle".
This is the piece you are looking to make. Pay no mind at this time to whatever else is on the image at this time as i will address everything.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/hatchmoldframe.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/hatchmoldframe.jpg.html)
Here are the dimensions for those pieces: (NOTE: Original/old design shown. Disregard the plywood middle on the base board. The updated design will have that middle as whiteboard and not plywood. If you build one it should be from one solid slab of whiteboard as your base board)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/hatchmolddimensions.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/hatchmolddimensions.jpg.html)
use a nail gun to tack it together in the shape in the picture, then tack it to the base plate, centered evenly. If you dont have a finishing nail gun you can get a cheap one for less than $30 almost anywhere. They are critical for this work as you can hold the two pieces and tack them together almost instantly without disturbing their placement. You cannot do this with a common nail or screw.
4) cut the insert to fit around the inner box frame. leave the "drain triangle" for last. you basically want to end up with something that looks like this:
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/hatchmoldframe2.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/hatchmoldframe2.jpg.html)
Remember they are 45 degree saw settings for the corners and 22.5 degree setting for the drain triange.
5) Drain triangle - Cut, fit and nail a 1/2 x 1/2 piece of wood against the inner box frame to continue the smaller piece of the insert. Next use a piece of plain white paper and fit it into the remaining space to create a template for the drain triangle. Tranfer this to a 1.5 inch high piece of material (two pieces of plywood or white board tacked together) and send through a table saw being mindful of which sides get a 5 degree cut to match the inserts. Also be mindful that the drain triangle has to be large enough to fit your drain (in the photo its not!!!). IF you need to make the triangle bigger (or smaller) you can shorten (or lengthen) the inserts and the inner box frame to accommodate. (note, I would probably draw the whole thing out first. If you wait until this step to check your drain fitment you are basically going to tear the whole mold apart to make sizing corrections. These dmensions worked for my standard drain and are the dimensions from the other mold which worked out perfectly and not the one in the photo with the smaller drain triangle).
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/hatchmolddraintriangle.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/hatchmolddraintriangle.jpg.html)
live and learn tip: make sure the drain triangle is cut square. Mine tapered in a bit on one of the molds which would have caused havoc on the hinge alignment as well as would have forced me to modify the door to fit. seal the open grain of the wood with whatever filler you are using (bondo, wood filler, caulk, etc) as the imprint will transfer to the gel coat
6) Do a final sanding and rounding of all applicable edges. Make it all smooth and slick. Fill any endgrain whiteboard with wood filler to prevent any gel coat imprint
7) Seal EVERY SEAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Wood filler, clay, caulk, drywall spackle... whatever works. Seal every seam against gel coat that could creep inbetween the pieces of the mold and ruin your day. Even though it is easiest to use in tight places, you have to be really good at caulk as it cannot be sanded to shape.
8 ) mount the drain and latch -
I wanted the drain a touch recessed so I placed a washer under it and used modeling clay to fill and sculpt the area. I dont think it is necessary but thats up to you. You have to screw down the drain. I sent a screw right through the middle hole into the drain triangle. Duct tape the threads to protect/seal them.
The latch - heres where it got tricky. The latch I wanted to use needed recesses in the mold for them to have clearance to work. I opted to put the catch in the frame and the latch in the door. If I were to build these again, space wise it would be easier to put the latch in the frame and the catch in the door, although this would make it a bit awkward to open the door. As you see I had to make adjustments to the frame to accomodate the latch
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6927.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6927.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6929.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6929.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6930.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6930.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6931.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6931.jpg.html)
Here is the latch I chose to use. What I liked about it is that it is a beefy 100% stainless construction and it does not go all the way through the door. At this point in the game i am not interested in hardware that isnt stainless or brass/bronze. Many turn style latches require a catch that would go through the door defeating the thought of making it waterproof. Its from Sea Dog... thanks Sea Dog!!!!
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/seadoglatch.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/seadoglatch.jpg.html)
here is the catch as it was placed in the mold. That rectangular glob of clay is the pocket for the latch to sit in. You may also notice that the catch has clay under it, lifting it from the white board. This is to overcome a manufaturing error where the catch and the latch do not line up straight. If I were to install it flush to the bottom, it would have allowed the door to creep upwards a bit before the catch caught the latch. That would have drove me bonkers! Details details. Lesson here is get all your hardware in advance and see how it fits/works/sits... etc. The clay on the vertical side again the wood is to counter the 5 degree cut of the wood. The screw holes are also filled in with clay. SEAL EVERYTHING! If its not sealed, it will fill with gelcoat or resin and ruin your day.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6937.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6937.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_7472.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_7472.jpg.html)
Heres the problem: the catch mechanism has thickness and needs clearance to operate. I reduced the well height by 3/8th's of an inch leaving 5/8th's plus a gasket to shed water. The latch is located facing the bow, so this low point will always be at the highest spot opposite of the drain. If i were worried about fishing the Flemmish Cap during the perfect storm, I would have placed the latch in the floor and the small catch in the door. That would eliminate the need for the relief in the sealing channel but would have made pulling the door up awkward requiring some other harware to grab the door with.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_7471.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_7471.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_7470.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_7470.jpg.html)
Here is the relief as it sat in the mold (note: the inner box frame is removed). You can see that it has minimal effect on the depth of the channel leaving 5/8th depth to shed water with.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_7469.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_7469.jpg.html)
heres another angle of how it was set up. You can also see the latch pocket the block of clay created behind the catch
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_7468.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_7468.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_7145.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_7145.jpg.html)
9) Wax the mold with a mold release wax as directed on the product lable. 4-6 coats should do fine. I did 2 coats and it came out fine (where it wasnt stuck by creep). You can use PVA if your used to using it. I opted not do due to fear of runs and puddling with such an intricate piece. Wax was easier for me to wipe off.
10 ) Gel Coat - I gave it about 3 coats of gel coat out of a dump gun. It didnt work out too well as it was impossible to shoot evenly into such a tight crevice (at least for me). However, after the last coat I fixed it up with a plastic spreader and squeegee'd gel coat where ever it was needed to smooth it out. This is one of the good things about a mold is that the finished side is protected. You can correct many a mistake and it will never be seen or make a difference. If you are building a race boat then maybe it may matter. At the end of the day you pop the mold out and all looks good!
Please be certain you are using UNWAXED gel coat. Waxed gelcoat will require sanding before each new coat and would be near impossible with the complexity of this mold. the ONLY layer that gets waxed at all is the final layer of fiberglass... basically the last thing to hit the mold. More on glass later...
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6951.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6951.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6954-1.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6954-1.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6955.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6955.jpg.html)
whatever you do and how ever you apply it, make sure your gelcoat looks more like the "after" pics than the "before".
A word of caution- be aware that the gelcoat is barely hanging on to a slick waxed surface. If you try to spread hardening gelcoat you run the risk of pulling it off of its position and creating dimples that you will have to fix later. Let the gel coat harden as is and fix it later with another coat of gel coat. Do your best not to disturb the gel coat. Take a look at the photo just before line 9) above. You will see some dimples in the lower lrft corner of the picture. These were a result of disturbing the gel coat. As you can see in the other finished photos, gel coat can be easily fixed perfectly, so fear not and do your best.... you can fix gel coat now or in 20 years.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6972a.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6972a.jpg.html)
10 ) Fiberglass
Please note that I used vinylester resin. You can use polyester resin as well. I dont think you can use epoxy resin with chopped strand as it is the styrene in the other 2 resins that releases the fibers in the chopped strand. Please look into this further if you are into epoxy resins.
I used the following layup schedule: 3/4 oz chopped strand, then 1.5 oz chopped strand, then 1708 biaxial, or in my case, i used 2408 biaxial as I didnt realize the difference and I thought I had 1708. Basically it is 24 oz instead of 17 oz, so it was a bit stiffer and harder to work with but was a thicker and stronger layer.
Past the 1.5 oz, i dont think it matters much what you use to strenghten. If you dont have 1708 I think 5-7 more layers of 1.5 oz would have done it as well. Sure, 5x 1.5 is 7.5oz and not 17 oz, but 17 oz may be overkill. its up to you.
But why the 3/4 oz? This I believe is a critical 1st step. Im sure we all have corners or ridges on our Aquasports that have a chip in the gel coat revealing a crater of missing fiberglass behind it. This was because after the gel coat was sprayed, the chopped strand that was applied after wasnt pressed into every crevice leaving a space.
The 3/4 oz is so thin that it almost turns to mush making it very easy to conform to almost any shape. It is so important to get this first 3/4 oz layer pressed into every nook to basically back the gel coat. in fact, to further secure the gel coat, I mixed a "mayonaise" mix of West Systems 404 (like stronger cabosil) and applied it into the inner crevices before laying the 3/4 over it.
The 1.5 oz is a little thicker and obviously adds more stability to the mold, while any additional coats past that add to the overall strength of the piece. The thicker the glass the harder it is to get it to bend. fiberglass is rigid to some extent and doesnt take to well to sharp bends. Its like trying to bend a fishing rod into a corner... it wants to stay rounded to some extent and wants to spring straight as well.
Here is the layup schedule that worked best for me for this mold:
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6682a.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6682a.jpg.html)
Notice the biaxial (blue line) is broken and not continuous. I tried that on the first mold and it wanted to spring straight off of the verticals. It will sit well in the valley to the right and the right angle to the left. Vaccuum bagging may be an option but that is beyond my experience at the moment. This layup worked well and was done in 3 sessions
Layer 1: paper thin, even veil of 3/4 oz chopped strand:
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_7072.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_7072.jpg.html)
Heres a good shot of the 1.5 oz pieces for layer 2, and the 2408 biaxial for layer 3 in the foreground. I tried to use as few pieces as I could because I didnt want to overlap the corners too many times for fear of uneven buildup of the final piece.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_7109.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_7109.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_7110.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_7110.jpg.html)
Here is a shot after the final biaxial lay up:
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_7119.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_7119.jpg.html)
11 ) Tools
You tubes' "Gasserglass" stresses that you can never have too many rollers. My go to roller for this mold was this small round one. It fit everywhere and made rolling in glass and rolling out bubbles a breeze.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_7286.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_7286.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_7287.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_7287.jpg.html)
12 ) Removal
I cut around the outer perimeter and the upper edge with a 4 1.2 inch angle grinder with a metal cut off wheel. YES it throws quite a cloud of fiberglass goodness so doing so outside or in a well ventilated area is highely recommended. There are other ways to cut, I like the grinder with a cut off wheel. Cleaning the edges reveals all the seams that you will attack with the plastic wedge:
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_7120.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_7120.jpg.html)
I used plastic wedges to seperate the piece from the mold:
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_7125.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_7125.jpg.html)
Thats all it should take to get this piece off of a well made mold. As mentioned, I didnt seal all my seams and the gelcoat that creeped make this step hell. I had to get quite evil with a chisel to get all the wood out without damaging the gel coat further. with a well made mold the piece should come out fairly easily just by wedging it all around the edge of the mold.
13 ) finishing the piece:
Fill any oops marks with gel coat. Once all is filled, I sanded with increasing grits until I got the finish I desired. I started with 100 to knock down the edges and rough spots, then 150, then 220, then 320 wet, then 600 wet. After installation i will compound with a buffer.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_7232.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_7232.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_7233.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_7233.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_7242.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_7242.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_7238.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_7238.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_7244.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_7244.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_7240.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_7240.jpg.html)
14 ) Doors.... to be continued as soon as I make them! ASAP!
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Awesome post Steve!
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Awesome post Steve!
Really well thought through too. Wish my aft hatch were done that way. Its tight...but leaks.
Captain Steve....these little touches will be worth a thousand X in the years to come.
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Steve,
Your contributions here deserve awards!! :salut: I said it before, but I'll say it again. I've not found a better documented rebuild thread than yours, and yet it's still not enough for you. The ENTIRE gang thanks you! :bom:
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This thread should be turned into a book..."Fiberglass for Dummies" My 13 yo son could do a rebuild after reading this one thread :cheers: :cheers: :salut: :salut: :salut:
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You guy are too much! Thanks for the kudos and kind words. I am happy to pay this site back and make something a little easier for my Aquasport brothers. We have the coolest boats out there so why not turn it up to 11 if we can!
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Steve thanks for taking the time out the tips you gave should really should help the next guy. You are right about having all your hardware available before starting a project like this. Keep it coming.
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I finished up editing the post for the hatch molds. I look forward to posting the doors as soon as I make them which will hopefully be sooner than later. Im pretty sure I covered most of it but im sure I will read it tomorrow and edit further. Good luck and go make something! If I can do it you can do it!!!
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Awesome thread! You do great work, and your documentation top notch, Steve!
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Thank you very much for this post... :salut:
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So finally after a long winter I have started working on the hatch doors. I used the 3/4 white board again as it is super smooth, flat and slick which needs little waxing to release. I cut the board to size then lipped the board with a 7/8's high strip of the white board. I figured on 3/16 of an inch spacing on all four sides.
At this point it reminded me how critical it is to make sure everything is even and square. One of my hatch frames is almost perfectly square within 1 millimeter as far as length by width goes. The other one is square on 3 sides with one side off at an angle by almost 1/4 inch! I don't know how I missed that one. When I plan to leave 3/16's of an inch gap, to add another 1/4 inch to the gap would be a disaster. So basically the 2nd door will be made to match the shape of the opening with one side varying by 1/4 inch. It also illustrates the importance of measuring and measuring again so you can find any issues and correct for them before you waste any time, effort and materials.
So here is the frame assembled and tacked together. Again I am using a air finishing nailer as trying to screw or hammer nails while holding everything in place probably wouldn't work too well:
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9123.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9123.jpg.html)
Heres where the fun comes in. I have to mount and accommodate for the latch hardware. The lines indicate where the door will sit on the sealing lip
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9125.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9125.jpg.html)
I used a profile gauge to figure out the shape the structure needs to take to accommodate my hardware. I need to leave a void so that the hardware has clearance to operate properly, as well as seal appropriately against the shaped relief I left in the frame. The bump on the very top will be the lowest point under the latch and will have a small hole drilled there to channel any water that seeps behind the latch into the drainage channel. The opening will be pretty much water tight if all goes well. I know it may be difficult to envision what I am doing here as I have a really rough time taking into account the negative space but it will make sense by the end of the project when you see how the cover marries to the frame.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9132.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9132.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9131.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9131.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9127.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9127.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_7470.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_7470.jpg.html)
I filled in all the screw holes of the hardware as well as "caulked" the entire outline of the latch with clay and scraped and shaped it how I want. The last thing you want is the gel coat to creep and run behind places it shouldn't be.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9128.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9128.jpg.html)
Next time I will fill all the seams with drywall spackle and shape them with a radius so that all the corners are slightly rounded, then shoot gel coat. I am not concerned at this time with non-slip texture as I will be gel coating the entire floor of the boat so I will add abrasive to the gel coat then. If you wanted a factory non skid texture, now would be the time to add the imprint sheeting to the mold so the gel coat would take on the pattern.
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As usual, nice work and an excellent tutorial! I'm sure you know but it is probably worth saying anyway - when making the molds for square or rectangular parts, ensuring the lengths of the opposite sides are equal means you will have a parallelogram, but it does not mean each corner will be 90 degrees. Making sure the diagonal dimensions (corners to opposite corners) are equal will result in a perfectly square hatch. Keep up the great work!
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Yes thank you. Somehow I cut one leg a hair longer. Sucks a bit but lucky for me I caught it now and I can compensate. That was such a difficult mold to figure out especially with the drain corner. I wish I were making another set to be able to make the adjustments I learned along the way from the first set. As satisfying as it is to pop out my own design pieces, I think it is safe to say that once the 246 is done I will be hanging up the fiberglass tools.
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You can hang them on top of mine :lol:
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You can hang them on top of mine :lol:
your work and creativity is top notch but I know where you are coming from. The only fiberglass I want to hold when the boat is done is a fishing rod!!!!
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Today I built the other mold and prepped them both for gel coat. I filled a gallon sized Ziplock bag with ordinary sheetrock spackle and cut the tip off the bag to make a dispenser similar to what a cake decorator would use. I needed a small thin bead as I don't want a lot of excess to clean up. This made it very easy to dispense a controlled amount similar to a caulk gun.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9133.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9133.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9139.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9139.jpg.html)
I then used the rounded end of a popsicle stick to give the spackle the small radius I was looking for. (http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9144.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9144.jpg.html)
Once it dried I again took the popsicle stick to clean up and shape the spackle further. The nice thing about the white board is that dried spackle rubs right off, so any small smears or excess easily rubs right off with your finger or can be shaped a bit with the popsicle stick.
im not super worried about the radius as I wll apply the gel coat thick enough where I can correct and shape any imperfections out with sandpaper on the final product. The spackle is primarily there to prevent the gel coat from creeping between the seams and really ruining your day when you go to pop the piece out of the mold.
Once I was happy with the shape and profile I coated the mold with release wax. I may give it another coat before gel coating but im not worried about anything sticking to the gel coat and ruining my day. The white board is almost stick-proof, the spackle will sand off if it sticks, the clay wont stick and the stainless hatch most likely wouldn't either as most of it is smeared with clay at this point anyway. I waxed it just in case.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9147.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9147.jpg.html)
tomorrow we shoot gel coat with a dump gun
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9146.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9146.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9145.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9145.jpg.html)
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Looks good Steve :thumleft: Are you going to try anything different this time? Like thinning the gelcoat, maybe with Duratec?
I need to start on my console soon adding a door to the helm side and then I will be ready to shoot that baby, so I'm like a sponge right now watching what you're doing.
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Being these are wide open with no crevices I don't think I will have any issue shooting regular gel coat with the dump gun. On the hatch molds, the narrow vertical passages of the gutters were near impossible to shoot. The gel coat shoots fairly straight and doesn't mist well so nooks and crannies can be tough. Plus it shoots ALOT of gel coat so you can't really hang out in one area too long without drowning the area. Thinning would increase the flow and probably worsen the dump.
I'm a novice at best so I'm sure I need more time on the gun to get used to it and figure it out better, however the beauty of this type of mold manufacturing is the gel coat just has to be there and it doesn't have to be smooth and pretty. You can always tip it with a brush if you need to hit a particular spot. Keep In mind it sets up fast so you have work fast. DO NOT disturb it with a brush after it sets as you will pull it from the waxed mold and create dimples that you will have to fill after. Any additional coats or fixes should be sprayed only to not disturb the gel coat that's barely clinging to the waxed mold.
If you need a more precise coating then you may have to thin and go with an hvlp gun with a 2.4 tip. Most come off the shelf with a 1.4 or 1.8 tip so you have to hunt one down that you can get accessories for. Clean up on an hvlp is a pain. As of right now with my level of comfort and experience, on an external piece like a helm, floor or transom, I would think a HVLP with thinned gel coat might be more novice friendly as the gun is firing less gel coat per pass and easier to regulate. In any instance remember it's just gel coat. You can knock down, sand and fill away any imperfections and make it look perfect. That's the benefit of using it. You don't have that luxury with paint.
Again I'm no pro so if someone has a suggestion please chime in.
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I'll be spraying it on a finished product, so a little different approach than what you're doing, The sanding, sanding, sanding and buffing is the same though :roll: :D
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Shot the gel coat today with a dump gun. I spoke a bit too soon about the lack of "nooks and crannies" on this mold as I forgot about the latches. It actually works to illustrate what I was trying to explain to RickK just prior. Here is the first coat. As you can see I panicked a bit and drowned the latch with the dump gun. It shows how it bunches up from the air pressure and refuses to settle, as well as how smooth it can go down with the dump gun when you look at other parts of it.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9149.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9149.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9150.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9150.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9154.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9154.jpg.html)
I waited about an hour and shot the 2nd coat. It looks much better. I also took my time a bit more, reduced the flow on the gun, and sprayed from more of a distance with more motion to the gun
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9170.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9170.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9171.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9171.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9174.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9174.jpg.html)
I waited about another hour with the doors baking in the sun and shot the 3rd coat
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9176.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9176.jpg.html)
After about 2 more hours, I brought them in to be glassed. you can see a huge difference from the first coat on how it smoothed out with each coat. The best part is that if this were an external coat on a finished piece, I could sand it perfectly smooth. With it being a mold, I do not have to do anything. Each door got about 8 oz of unwaxed gelcoat per coat for a total of about 24 oz per door.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9180.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9180.jpg.html)
In the background you can see I cut the fiberglass. As for all my molds, Im using 3/4 oz chopped strand as my first coat. It is tissue paper thin and basically melts into almost any shape when wet with resin. I am using unwaxed vinlyester resin. Polyester resin will also work, epoxy resin will not work on this chopped strand as it does not contain styrene which is what dissolves the glue holding the strands together. The purpose of this super thin first layer is to make sure the gel coat is 100% backed by fiberglass. For example if I were to use 1708 biaxial as the first coat, it is too stiff and would probably lift in the corners and forget about it making any real contact around that intricate latch
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9179.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9179.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9181.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9181.jpg.html)
Here I mixed a batch of resin with West Systems 404 to make a "mayonnaise" that I will pad the corners and seams with to make sure there are no voids between the gel coat and the fiberglass. I put it in a ziplock bag, cut the corner off and dispensed it like a cake decorator
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9182.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9182.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9184.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9184.jpg.html)
I then poured some resin in the mold, spread it with a brush, but not in the corners to disturb the 404 mix. I then set the fiberglass in and gently stippled it into place adding resin as needed to make sure this layer was as flat as could be and fully wetted out. Hard part done! This first 3/4 oz layer is so critical to making a strong final piece. It is the foundation which the gel coat sits upon. You can see that the edges and seams are a darker green which is the 404 mayonnaise sitting right where it belongs.
The next layers should go on as smooth and flat as possible, but with each additional layer it becomes less critical to do so. Ill let it set up overnight and tomorrow ill add the next layer which is 1.5 oz chopped strand.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9186.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9186.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9187.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9187.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9188.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9188.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9191.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9191.jpg.html)
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Most excellent, Steve! When I did my doors and my transom enclosure, I tried to do it all wet-on-wet. I ended up rushing it, trying to do too much at one time. The rest of my form products will follow your approach. Your results speak to the quality job you are doing. Keep it up!
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Craig, thanks for the kind words. Once the gel coat is stabilized with the 3/4 oz chopped strand, you pretty much could dump layer after wet layer in as much as you want. It depends on how intricate the piece is but for simple flat pieces you could layer up. Keep in mind the gel coat and the resin have to be unwaxed for the next layer to properly adhere to existing layer. Only the very last coat gets a wax additive to encapsulate the resin and fully cure it.
I have to take this one layer by layer as after the next 1.5 oz chopped strand layer, I will be adding plywood stiffeners, then as many final layers of 2408 biaxial as needed to bring me to my desired thickness. I have to be mindful of overall thickness as it has to mate correctly to the frame.
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You mentioned you turned down the pressure - to what? I have read somewhere that you really don't need a whole lot of pressure with the dump gun.
How far away did you get your best results? I remember this pic from Scott's rebuild - I realize it's not a dump gun but look how far he is away from the subject
(http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j331/gran398/IMG_0907.jpg)
Do you keep your finger on the trigger all the time or release it as you spray past the subject like a automotive painter does to prevent buildup on the overlaps?
Good stuff Steve :salut:
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The directions for the dump gun says 60-100 lbs! It specifies 5.8 cfm's at 80 lbs which is a lot of air. Forget the Home Depot pancake compressors here. The dump gun needs a lot of pressure. I don't know where I was at as I don't have a gauge on the dump gun, and I don't think it would matter as I could feel the pressure dropping as the gun was outpacing my compressor. It's tough to trigger the dump gun on and off because you have to raise the tip up when not firing or gel coat will just ooze out the tip. It's not like an hvlp gun which you can totally trigger on and off.
As the name implies- hvlp - high volume low pressure, it requires lower pressure to work. The gun in the photo is not a dump gun as the painter is holding a canister. I think it's an hvlp.
What I adjusted was a knob on the back of the dump gun which lowered the air flow through the gun. Like anything, I'm sure after 10 or 20 more shoots that I would have a completely different review of how to make it work great. I'm still too green with the gun. However, the end result and the good news is that at the end of the day I am able to get an acceptable finished product one way or another. I would LOVE to master the dump gun as cleanup is ridiculously easy. An hvlp is sooo precise but you have to go from start to fully disassembled and drowning in acetone before the gel coat sets up in the gun leaving you with a pretty paperweight.
Distance wise I would say I was at about 2 feet or so except when I panicked and went too close around the latch as indicative of the air pressure splatter of the gel coat around the latch. It's a learning curve definitely.
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I'll have some problems with my compressor too, it's a 30 gal and probably gets 4.5 cfm. I'll do the best I can I guess. Don't want to buy nor do I have room for a big boy in my shop.
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You may have to go hvlp. They are cheap enough. Just a matter of finding a 2.4mm tip kit.
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Here's a nice setup for $50.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B001NOU92 ... t_redir=1# (http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B001NOU92G?pc_redir=1403259151&robot_redir=1#)
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I have a dump gun, so I can do the build up with it and then I have a couple HVLP, one very nice and I'm not getting gel anywhere near it :wink:
I use it for spraying finish on wood.
For the finish coats I will go with a lower priced gun with a 2.4-2.5 tip and some additive. Not sure if you can just run/spray acetone through it to clean it before it kicks or what - defintely have to be quick. Like you said, don't need a pretty paperweight. The one you linked to is not a terrible price.
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Nope on the acetone run. It will take most of it out and buy you time for a few more pots but it will still require a dis assemble, brush and a soak to fully clean. At least that's been my experience.
The distributor for the above link, TCP Global rings a bell, im pretty sure they are who I got my guns from a few years ago. I bought the 3 pack and a 2.4 mm tip kit. Fairly decent quality and a great bang for the buck. Here is their direct site: http://www.tcpglobal.com/spraygundepot/tcpgate.aspx (http://www.tcpglobal.com/spraygundepot/tcpgate.aspx)
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applied the 2nd layer today. 1.5 oz chopped strand.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9192.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9192.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9193.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9193.jpg.html)
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I apologize for taking over your thread Steve.
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Not a thing at all Rick. I appreciate the brain storming and sharing of ideas. I'm far from an expert so the conversation is a great way for us all to share ideas and learn.
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Great video on using the dump gun. Fast forward to the 5:45 mark. Before that has nothing to do with gel coat. Notice how he keeps the tip up. He must have the set screw turned down a bit as mine shot faster. I will have to practice with it. Notice how he went right to clean up and shows how easy it is to clean. This is "gasser glass" on YouTube. His videos are really good on mold making and fiberglass detail work.
http://youtu.be/NlDttjnsFhU (http://youtu.be/NlDttjnsFhU)
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His compressor seems to be a small one, maybe 25gal? to the left of the 2nd garage door he opens.
Thanks for the link.
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Applied 2 layers of 2408 Biaxial fiberglass today with vinylester resin. I changed the layup schedule from what I had posted prior. I ended up not adding the stiffeners yet and went with 2 layers of the 2408 because I have to be conscious of overall thickness. I only have 1/2 inch in total from the floorline down to the sealing face of the top edge of the drainage channel. I figure 1/8" to 3/16 " of that space will be a rubber sealing gasket which leave me with a max of about 3/8 inch for overall door thickness at the sealing surface. With gelcoat, 3/4 oz chopped strand, 1.5 oz chopped strand and 2 layers of 2408 biaxial I am just about at 3/8th overall thickness.
Tomorrow I will pop the doors out and fit them to the frame. I will add 3/4 inch plywood as a stiffener and glass it with another pair of 2408 biaxial layers, but the entire addition including the fiberglass will have to be within the hatch opening area. not a problem at all.
first layer of 2408 Biaxial
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9200.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9200.jpg.html)
2nd layer of 2408 biaxial
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9205.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9205.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9206.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9206.jpg.html)
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3/8" in just cloth/resin already :shock:
Are you sure you still need plywood backers?
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Cloth, resin and gel coat. The 2408 is like carpeting! It's 24 oz with .8 oz chopped strand sewed to it. Just like the well known 1708 is 17 oz with .8 oz. I actually got it by mistake. The shop thought they gave me 1708. I Didn't know the difference until a member on here pointed it out to me.
Who knows? Maybe I need plywood backers, maybe not. It won't hurt to add one. I'm worried about the sun heating and warping over time. A piece of plywood will cure all worries. The rear hatch will be just off the stern and will get a lot of traffic. The front one is going between the coffin box and the anchor locker so it won't get as much traffic.
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Instead of ply why not get 2 of these, http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/us ... ?pid=57774 (http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=57774) then cut down to what you need, put 2 cut pieces on each bottom for stiffener and done?
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Thanks Kevin. I've seen that page a long time ago but I've never seen one in person. Those could be interesting and could have some great application value. I think for these doors I will stick with plywood simply because I have it in hand and i want to finish up ASAP. I'll have to get my hands on a piece of that stiffener for the future.
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3/8" in just cloth/resin already :shock:
Are you sure you still need plywood backers?
correction... turns out the actual thickness is 3/16th on the side walls and 1/4 inch thick on the flats. I was off by an 1/8th. The 1/16 difference is gel coat as it built up more on the large flat than it did on the vertical side walls.
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The moment of truth
I cut the residual off with my 4 1/2" angle grinder with a metal cut off blade.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9211.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9211.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9212.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9212.jpg.html)
I then changes it to a sandpaper flap wheel to carefully grind the edge down just to the point where I cut through the gelcoat. This fully releases the edge as well as insures a uniform height to my edge.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9214.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9214.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9215.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9215.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9216.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9216.jpg.html)
With a few gentle vibrating raps with a hammer on the back of the mold, the door fell right out. I think im finally getting the hang of mold making.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9218.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9218.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9220.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9220.jpg.html)
I am super pleased with how they came out. They came out perfect so far. Here is a close up of how the latch pocket came out:
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9221.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9221.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9222.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9222.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9224.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9224.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9226.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9226.jpg.html)
All is not perfect however, As I will have some fitting to do on the frames to make them fit perfectly. A few small spots of grinding, patching, gelcoating and finish sanding. All and all I am pleased as with a little tweaking they will be perfect
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9227.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9227.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9229.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9229.jpg.html)
Close up of the latch pocket before removing the clay. The rough corner on the door is just sheetrock spackle and will easily sand off perfectly.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9231.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9231.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9232.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9232.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9217.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9217.jpg.html)
This is door #2. Its almost a perfect fit right out of the mold and will need a little fitting to be perfect. Door frame #1 needs a lot more work as the frame itself is off a bit at the drain corner. Lessons learned: make sure your molds are straight and square!!!
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9233.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9233.jpg.html)
This is the underside of door#2 against its frame. As you can see I only need to grind the corners off of the frame a bit to fit the latch hump and it will be perfect. The spacing is deliberate to accommodate a gasket.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9235.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9235.jpg.html)
perfect spacing all around
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9237.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9237.jpg.html)
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Looks darn good to me Steve :salut: Congrats!!
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What Rick said. Great job Steve :thumleft:
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Man...that's deluxe Steve :thumright:
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Thank you everyone for the kind words I appreciate it!
However.....
:shaking: :shaking2: :shaking: :shaking2:
Houston we have a problem. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED?????
I went into the garage around 11 pm while all is quiet to plan my attack for tomorrow and the doors did a "pringles" on me.
length
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9238.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9238.jpg.html)
width
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9240.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9240.jpg.html)
This is not an illusion or trick photography. These things buckled and warped hard and I don't know why.
The saving grace is that this happened outside of the mold and not in the mold. I placed them back in the mold and I could clearly see the warping. Luckily it didn't happen in the mold as a result of one layer lifting another or they would be expensively beautiful trash. I placed heavy weights on them and they settled back into shape under the pressure. I think I can still save these.
Im definitely not happy but im not giving up yet. Im going to bed, im going to forget this happened and try again in the morning. If they are still warped then I will cut the plywood stiffener, glass it up and install it under the same weighted load to try to use the stiffener to freeze the belly out of the bow. I may even place ice cream sticks along the perimeter to force the center to crown up just that little bit. All is not lost but this sucks right now.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9241.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9241.jpg.html)
Million dollar question right now... why did this happen and how can I prevent it in the future?
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Ouch :shock: ! Sorry to see that. I don't know why that happened, but I sure am interested to hear why. How long did they cure before you popped them out? Is it possible that they were not fully cured yet?
I have just started some hatch molds myself, so I'll be closely following this mystery. I plan to add the backing reinforcement prior to popping it from the mold...hopefully that will help...
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Craig that's a possibility. It was just About 18 hours for the two layers of 2408. The prior layers were laid days ago. I was thinking the same thing that maybe I popped them out a bit too soon. I have no idea but that could be a logical explanation.
I just checked on them. They are toast. I have them out in the sun now to see if a little heat will help but they have so aggressively warped that I think they are lost. I placed ice cream sticks under them around the perimeter before weighing them down and I'll let them bake for the day. I am super aggravated. Let's see what happens after a day in the sun.
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I think I found the answer:
http://www.audiogroupforum.com/csforum/ ... hp?t=17264 (http://www.audiogroupforum.com/csforum/showthread.php?t=17264)
I laid a layer of 2408 biaxial, gave it two hours then laid another. I should have given each layer 24 hours and left it in the mold for a few days after
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Sorry to hear that, Steve. That's a tough lesson to learn, and the hatches looked really good too.
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Well I'm back on terra firma in the US finally and just read this - that stinks.
The only thing I can think of that I do differently (not including not making a fancy mold) is that after I lay the cloth on the mold I cover it in plastic and weigh it down with blocks for a day or so. Maybe you need to do that? I wouldn't think so but if that's what it takes to get a flat door.....
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Welcome back Rick. Yes, as I slowly accept that those doors are toast, I'm thinking about what to do differently and I think the strategy is single layers, a full 24 hrs between layers, weights on the first and 2nd biaxial layers, and 48-72 hrs before popping it out. Maybe even the plywood stiffener before popping it out.
Luckily the molds are intact.
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Maybe even the plywood stiffener before popping it out.
I think this is the most important step....
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Will ask Seamark Boatworks here for input on layup schedule, procedure, and time in the mold . They make molds and produce fiberglass parts for a myriad of applications. Contractor to the State of North Carolina for public aquariums.
They'll offer sound advice. Will report ASAP, hopefully Monday.
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You laid the straightedge on the molds too right? I assume they're flat. I would guess it is a curing thing - you're using vinylester right? I'm not familiar with how that hardens. I know heat will warp stuff so maybe as it is curing it needs to be held flat?
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Yes the molds are pin straight and they came out of the molds straight. In fact when you place them back in you can clearly see them bowing out of the mold. Yes I am using vinyl ester. I'm going with the fact that it was two layers of 2408 laid about 2 hours apart pulled from the mold at the 18th hour before fully curing. Going forward every layer will get a full 24 hrs between layers and the finished piece will get 48 hrs before removing from the mold.
None of my other pieces warped at all so this is a strange case. I'm going to get started on them Monday with gel coat.
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Figured the molds were good.
Why not go wet on wet and lam all the layers, cover it with plastic and weigh it down for the week? Then pop them and add your backers and again weigh them down. I would wait on the backers because you'll need room to get the blocks or whatever you use to weigh them down, into the mold and spread out. I even used the blocks to help make that cloth bend at the edges :roll:
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the resin is shrinking from heat (too much resin vs. glass) and causing it to warp over large areas. Vacuum bag it, and it will stay flat.
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Thank you all for the great advice. Not sure which way I'm going to go but I am happy about all the food for thought. Thanks!!!
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I'm late to the party, and you have probably moved on....
However, I'm thinking that the resin wasn't fully cured and it sagged when you pulled it. I would core it in the mold and let them cure for 3 days or so (depending on temperature) before popping them. I also, would try to work wet on wet...This is a personal preference though.
On the other hand, You are rocking those molds! It appears to me that you have the process nailed down.
Great job!
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Thanks Carl. I believe that's what happened too. 18 hours for 48 ounces of wet glass just wasn't enough I think. As for working multi layers, I have to carefully lay the first 3/4 oz chopped strand to make sure it is stippled into every nook and cranny to insure that my gel coat is properly backed. The following 1.5 oz is pretty much the same idea. I wouldn't be able to get the correct quality control slapping down all the layers at once especially in the corners and around the latch. Im in no rush and im going to stick to what has worked well before which is layer on cured layer. the difference here is that its getting 2 full days or more before I pop it out. I have to guess/believe that the failure happened because of uncured glass. It either pulled or sagged as they were left gel coat upwards after they were popped from the mold. I should be starting again in a day or two.
Again I thank everyone for sharing ideas on how to solve this. This sucks, but all things considered these are the easiest piece of the molds I have done so im grateful the failure (lesson) was on these. On the bright side, I wasn't 100% happy with how the latch pocket came out so now I have another chance to make them perfect. If you look at the picture of the underside where it is sitting in the frame you can see that it didn't follow the contour of the frame clearance evenly which would have required modifying the frame. I have another chance to avoid days of minute glass/gelcoat repair.
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Thank you for posting all of this. :salut:
We as a group have gotten more ambitious with the complexity of our projects, I think it is awesome that you are willing to post when things don't go according to plan. I know that myself and a few others have posted the "oops" moments too, and who knows how many people we have helped out. Just think that when you searched for info, you found it. Now think about how many folks outside of our membership might come across our threads.... :scratch: We are continuing to help this site (hopefully) be a great resource for all kinds of folks who dare to take on projects like the ones that we dared to take on also!
Keep up the great job.
Talk to you later! :salut:
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Thanks Carl. Im fine with sharing my errors if it can help someone from wasting their time and effort doing the same. I think that is a common theme of this site which is to provide the best information and results of our experiments so that others can choose what they want to do. I have credited this site MANY times for providing me the precedence of information so I can try to renovate my boat myself. Without this site I would not have had a clue as to how to take my boat apart and put it back together.
Sure it sucks the hatches taco'ed, but with everyones input I doubt it will not happen again. There is a sense of accomplishment in successfully completing a project and a sense of pride knowing I am leaving a legacy if information that may trigger someone years from now to attempt the same. I think you and I and many on here are having a great time in general renovating our boats our way. I do not post to boast as much as I post to foster the idea that we can all make really cool stuff and have awesome boats we can be proud of if we are given half a clue as to how to do so. Its in my ignorance of how things have always been done that I think about how I would want to do something. Thinking out of the box doesnt always work but im having a great time trying to learn and over come the challenges. its all good!
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Deluxe post Capt. Steve :salut:
You hit the nail on the head regarding our members, their attitude, and willingness to share :thumright:
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Finally got back at it today. Round two. I applied what I learned from the first go around and applied it to modifying the shape of the clay for the latch pockets.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9248.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9248.jpg.html)
I utilized a cool trick today to roll out the clay to a uniform thickness. I laid two thin strips of wood on either side of the clay and used a pipe as a rolling pin. This made it a bit easier to stay consistent with the thickness and gave me pieces that were easier to work with.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9249.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9249.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9251.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9251.jpg.html)
Much smaller design this time around
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9253.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9253.jpg.html)
The Profile gauge shows the shape of the clay from the first set. This should work better.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9255.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9255.jpg.html)
Shot the unwaxed gel coat with the dump gun. Heres first layer
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9265.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9265.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9256.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9256.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9268.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9268.jpg.html)
second coat
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9276.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9276.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9277.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9277.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9278.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9278.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9280.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9280.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9283.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9283.jpg.html)
third and final coat
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9280.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9280.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9283.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9283.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9284.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9284.jpg.html)
ill take another set in the morning to show how it settled. All and all I am getting more comfortable with the dump gun and shooting gelcoat that I would be able to work with if it were a finished coat and not a mold. I still had some trouble getting even coverage on the latch pockets. I think it built up pretty thick over the latch pockets which hopefully wont give me back the size issues I was trying to avoid by making the clay smaller. Over all I shot about 22 ounces of gel coat per door
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Here they are this morning. Wow they settled nice and flat. If this were an external piece it wouldn't take much to fair it flat. I plan on glassing the first layer today.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9287.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9287.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9285.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9285.jpg.html)
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Dang Steve! You are getting pretty good with that dump gun.
Are you going to re-Gel the whole boat?
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Thanks Carl. Yes I think I'm starting to do better with the gun. There's really no explaining it you just have to practice and get a feel.
Unfortunately I am not going to gel coat the whole boat. There is no way I could flip the boat to do the hull. I could gel coat the insides but I really do not have a strong desire for a show piece. I am okay with patching, polishing and fixing what is there now and ending up with a clean, functional working fishing boat. The only thing that will be new is what I am installing. I absolutely admire pics of full restorations but I cringe at the thought of adding that much more time, money and effort to my build. As for now I just want to get it clean and working. Labor Day weekend will be 3 years that I own this hull and it still won't be in the water. It's too long. There's a chance I may shoot the gunnels with gel coat when I shoot the floor as it really won't be that much more work but I'll see where I'm at when the floor is in.
My new concern for shooting something so big is overspray. Gel coat doesn't air dry. It will carry with the wind, land on something and cure when it's ready. I would have to go to great lengths to contain the overspray from coating my neighbors homes and cars. I'll figure it out and of course post about it!
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First coat of 3/4 oz chopped strand with unwaxed vinylester done. Didn't come out as smooth as I would have liked on the door to the right as the warm temps set off the resin faster than I expected. To screw me up even further the fiberglass shop said the new batch of vinylester he sold me sets off fast for some reason, further reducing the work time im used to. It may not be pretty as its a bit blotchy and resin rich in spots but its functional.
I am NOT taking any chances this time around. Every layer will be weighed down and will get a full 24 hrs to cure which kind of sucks because I would glass right now! So ill chomp at the bit until the morning.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9288.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9288.jpg.html)
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Being I cant fiberglass until tomorrow, I figured I would keep myself busy by making the plywood stiffeners. I used 3/4 plywood and sent it through a table saw to create a gradual bevel
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9293.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9293.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9294.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9294.jpg.html)
Here is pretty much how its going to sit
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9296.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9296.jpg.html)
I left 1.5 inches around as clearance from the frame in case I need to glass the stiffener without adding to the thickness of the doors. Door thickness will be critical for proper sealing against the gasket of the frame. The doors next coat will be 1.5 oz chopped strand tomorrow. The day after that will be a 2408 biaxial with the stiffener placed over it into the wet glass and weighed down for 2 days. Then at least one more layer of 2408 to encapsulate the plywood, and more layers if needed to build up thickness.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9289.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9289.jpg.html)
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Great work, Steve!
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Has it been 24hrs yet :bounce:
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Has it been 24hrs yet :bounce:
Lol... why yes in fact Rick, it has!
Nothing too exciting, basic stuff, just the 2nd layer down. Its 1.5 oz chopped strand, weighed down as I am not making these a 3rd time. I already can feel a little gel coat separation from the mold when I press down on it in some spots but I can handle a hint of wave. The next layer tomorrow night is 2408 Biaxial backed with the stiffener and weighed down which I think will get it as straight as its going to be. That one will sit for 48 hours before I even look in its general direction. That is wax paper that the white board sections are placed on.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9298.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9298.jpg.html)
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Has it been 24hrs yet :bounce:
I already can feel a little gel coat separation from the mold when I press down on it in some spots but I can handle a hint of wave.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9298.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9298.jpg.html)
Did you use the batteries on the first layer this time or just those pipes?
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The pipes were too light so I switched to the batteries which also cover a larger area to pressure. I have had them under weight the whole time so far.
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:thumleft:
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I laid the next layer today which is 2408 biaxial. I also cut a piece of 2408 the size of the plywood stiffener and laid that under the plywood a bit on the wet side and sandwiched it all together. There is no resin on the top of the plywood just yet, and whatever is on the sides is just from brushing the excess resin that squeezed out under pressure. I even shimmed the work table level so the wet pieces wouldn't want to slide towards the pitch just to be safe... like I said I don't want to make these a 3rd time!!!
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9303.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9303.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9302.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9302.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9304.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9304.jpg.html)
After I placed the batteries down I went around with the brush to smooth out any resin that squeezed out. Basically you want it as flat and smooth as can be for the following layers. I will not even think of touching these for at least 48 hours. After that a final layer of 2408 and I think I am done providing they are of an acceptable thickness to seal the gasket against the frame. If they aren't I can add more layers to improve my seal, or im thinking I will probably gel coat this side as well so the hatches look neat when opened. I can build up thickness with gel coat too. I will see how it goes and decide on the fly.
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I am pretty excited to see you pop these out Steve. I don't think you will have any problems this time around. I would say you got it whooped!
Can't wait to see them popped out.
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I am pretty excited to see you pop these out Steve. I don't think you will have any problems this time around. I would say you got it whooped!
Can't wait to see them popped out.
Thanks Carl. I am excited too but a bit gun shy after the last mess. Im sure they will be fine this time around. I look forward to getting the floor down before the fall.
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I laid what could possibly be the final coat of 2408 biaxial today with unwaxed vinylester resin. I say it that way because I may have to add another layer or two for overall thickness, but if I dont then structurally they are strong enough at this point. I think they came out sweet over the plywood stiffeners. I used about 12 oz of resin per door for this coat. The 2408 lays down so nice, I love working with it. it doesn't like outside 90 degree bends but if you try to minimize the outside 90's you can lay this stuff down beautifully. My mold has inside 90's and it still won't tuck neatly into the corners thus I it's why I have all the layers under it to round the 90 a bit. 1708 has the same characteristics. Its in the biaxial weave that makes it pretty adaptable for its thickness.
As for the actual process, I wet the piece itself, then I wet the new layer of 2408 upside down (the chopped strand side) on a separate piece of plastic (the Callyb Method), then I lay the wet 2408 into the mold, stipple down with a brush from the middle to the edges, add resin as needed, then babysit the whole thing with a roller and a brush to make sure I don't get any surprise lifts or bubbles until it sets up a bit
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9305.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9305.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9306.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9306.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9311.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9311.jpg.html)
I did get a little gassing lift on the wood indicative of the lighter patches. Note to self... I forgot to coat the plywood with resin and let it kick off before adding the 2408 biaxial. This would have allowed any reaction between the wood and the resin to happen without glass over it, allowing for a predictable resin to resin bond for the glass coat. It didn't happen along the beveled edges as most of that surface was resin coated from the the last layup. Im not worried as the stiffener is locked in and isn't going anywhere regardless of a little surface gassing.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9308.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9308.jpg.html)
I purposely cut the biaxial around the latch hump so to not add any thickness to it. It is coated with a layer of 3/4, then two layers of 1.5 oz chopped strand. That is more than sufficient to hold the shape of the latch hump/pocket without adding critical thickness there.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9309.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9309.jpg.html)
These will be weighed down with the batteries for at least 5 days as my schedule is crazy so be patient I will pop them out as soon as I can after that.
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Good job Steve - patience grasshopper....
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These should come out great :cheers:
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So, Did they work out? Inquiring minds want to know.
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I'm out of town. I'll pop them out Tuesday afternoon.
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I popped them out a few days ago. No surprises this time
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9406.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9406.jpg.html)
fits better right out of the mold than the last doors
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9410.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9410.jpg.html)
I did some dremel grinding to fine tune the fit of the latch pocket. I went down to the gel coat in some spots. I then covered the pocket with a think veil of 1.5 oz chopped strand just to hold the gel coat in place (where the "1" is).
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9414.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9414.jpg.html)
I added the final full layer of 2408, and a perimeter strip of 2408. Both layers are stricly for build up to get the proper door thickness for proper clearance for the sealing gasket.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9411.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9411.jpg.html)
here you can see the 2408 perimeter strip
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9415.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9415.jpg.html)
Here is the 5/8's Taco weatherstripping I am using
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9416.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9416.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9417.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9417.jpg.html)
a few preliminary images of where the weatherstripping will sit
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9419.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9419.jpg.html)
this is about where it will be stuck to the door. This photo illustrates how much the door shrank in the mold. You can see the black line between the door and the mold. Id say its about 1/16 of an inch.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9420.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9420.jpg.html)
Tomorrow I will fair where the weather stripping will adhere to the door for proper clearance and leveling, then I will gel coat the underside of the door.
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Those are some beefy hatches - I don't think they will flex with anyone on them - nice job Steve :salut:
I guess patience IS a virtue :!:
I've been doing mundane stuff on mine, so nothing to report yet.
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Thanks Rick. I look forward to your progress as well. They are definitely stout at 3/4 oz CSM, 1.5 oz CSM, 3 full layers of 2408, a layer of 2408 under the 3/4 inch stiffener, and a strip of 2408 around the perimeter, all drowned in vinylester resin. The latch pocket creates a weak spot though. I stood on the reject doors (without stiffeners) and they cracked right at the pocket as there is no lip there. it doesn't matter as the door will be resting on the gutter lip and not on the actual edges.
I think design 1.1 would have the gutter wide enough to clear the latch pocket so I wouldn't have to disturb the gutter lip and stress over making the profiles match up. I hope to never have to find out! These are a ridiculous amount of work to make. I cant wait to be done with them and get back to working on the hull.
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I cleaned the excess glass up with a sand paper flap wheel on my 4 1/2 inch grinder. I set it in the frame to check the fit and grind down any high spots that I didnt like, concentrating pretty much only where the weatherstripping would go. I dont really care about how the under side of the door looks otherwise.
I shot it with Gel Coat. As a final coat for the project, I added TFA (tack free additive) which is basically wax. I also cut it about 10% with styrene to make it shoot easier out of the Preval.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9422.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9422.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9424.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9424.jpg.html)
I touched up a spot on the frame that I had to grind down to fit the door
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9426.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9426.jpg.html)
I shot it all with a preval. I just held the cup under the sprayer avoiding the need to buy the kit with the glass jar. I only bought the refil. It shoots a fine mist which is perfect for touch ups. You will not get any real volume out of the preval and they are expensive at about $6 a can. Basically it took most of the can to shoot this small amount but its great for small touch ups and obviously it shoots gel coat if its thinned a bit. It comes with a strainer at the end of the pick up tube which has to be removed to shoot gel.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9427.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9427.jpg.html)
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Spent a few hours creeping towards a 99% complete hatch. I used a stainless piano hinge with stainless T nuts
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9431.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9431.jpg.html)
I had to grind down the T nuts to fit properly as they were too long and will not fit as a complete circle.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9428.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9428.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9433.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9433.jpg.html)
The T nuts ended up fitting really nice for a super strong hold. The doors will be permanently mounted to the frame with long stainless wood screws right into the plywood core of the floor of the boat after the frames are installed. For now I used nuts and bolts just for mock up.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9432.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9432.jpg.html)
:cheers: :cheers: :cheers: Finally.... a piece I could mount tomorrow if I had to.... There will be some slight tweaks before that happens :drunken: :eye: :cyclops:
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9441.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9441.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9442.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9442.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9443.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9443.jpg.html)
it seals up really tight
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9435.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9435.jpg.html)
I will build up gel coat in the corners of the frame to match the round of the latch hump. I may even build up with peanut butter around the bolts so the nuts fasten down on a flat surface. I will use 5200 on all the protruding hardware upon final installation
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9434a.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9434a.jpg.html)
The latch and catch alignment is just a little off... this is probably something I will correct with a Dremel and gel coat.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9440.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9440.jpg.html)
Aside for the few modifications mentioned above, that's pretty much it for these hatches until they are installed. The gel coat has been lightly sanded just to shape and clean up any casting marks and will be sprayed with a final finish after installation. The doors will be sprayed again with gel coat and an anti skid grit. The frame face will be ground to a taper and married into the fiberglass of the floor for a seamless finish with the floor. All you will see is the door.
The other door is sitting in the mold waiting for its final layers of glass and gel coat. I will post if anything interesting happens along the way but this is pretty much the end of this thread.
In closing you either have to be very good at glass work or very patient to make these hatches, but anyone can make them. They took me more hours than I want to count and I have no intentions on making anymore. However as my first attempt ever at mold making I am beyond pleased with how they came out and how functional they are which made them worth the effort. If I could do it anyone can! Good luck and post your builds!!!!!
Did someone say bait station transom cap?????? :compress: :compress: :compress:
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Nice job, Steve :thumright: You should be proud :cheers:
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Great stuff Koz. :salut:
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Thanks everyone!!
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small update. As a test I took the assembly, turned it upside down and filled it with water. I lost about 1/16th of an inch of water a minute without caulking the screw holes and without modifying the area of the frame where it meets the latch bump to seal better. I think a few more tweaks will work towards improving that statistic. With that 1 1/4 inch drain I may not have to worry much.
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the doors are a bit heavy to where I would not want them flopping around because it would probably damage the hinge. Plus I figured it would be quite inconvenient to have to hold the door open, so I decided to install lid supports. I could have went with the nice pneumatic ones but I figured the less moving parts the better, plus its not like these are going to be opened frequently, so I went with the old tried and true spring supports. However... nothing is easy....
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9479.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9479.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9480.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9480.jpg.html)
Mounting the support to the frame was easy as I drilled two holes at the bottom edge of the frame and backed them with nylock nuts. the problem was mounting the support to the door. I didn't want to drill through the doors to mount the support to the door, nor did I want to cheat it over a bit and screw into the plywood stiffener as I want to leave it 100% encapsulated, so I decided to make a pad out of spiked tee nuts that I could glass to the cover.
I started by making a template out of starboard of the exact hole spacing I would need and fasten the tee nuts from underneath. I filled the remaining threads with modeling clay to keep the resin out. I then added as many layers of 2408 biaxial necessary to cover the spikes. I think it was 4 or 5 layers. The next day after the resin set I cut the pads to shape on a band saw, shaped it and touched it up on a belt sander, mixed some vinyester resin, coated a piece of 2408 the same size as the pad and clamped it in place for 24 hours. I then gel coated over it to finish it up.
You have to be conscious of keeping the threads clean, so after I clamped it I waxed the appropriate screw and screwed it into the tee to chase out any resin. A few times in the first two hours of kicking off I would give the screws a 1/2 turn back and forth a few times to make sure the coast was clear.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9477.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9477.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_9475.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_9475.jpg.html)
I think the hatch is really finished this time... no really im serious! :drunken: :drunken: :drunken: