Classic AquaSport
Aquasport Mechanicals - things that need a wrench, screwdriver or multimeter => Engines & engine woes => Topic started by: Capt Matt on July 20, 2013, 08:38:16 PM
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Just put a 2013 150 four stroke mercury on my flat back, I ran it about 60 miles today and am very impressed. After owning 5 brand new opti max's I was ready to try something different and the bottom line is I spend roughly 4K a year on DFI oil.
My first impresson was this motor is so damm quiet, it has a good hole shot and is crazy smooth. I was worried about the performance but bottom line there is not much performance difference between the 175 pro XS I was running. I only lost 2-3mph top end. Since i never run my boats WOT who cares. If your looking for speed your not running a flat back boat anyway
I'm still playing with props but with a 17 enerta 4000rpm is 30mph GPS at 6.1 GPH on my smart craft gauge. Thats only .1 gph more fuel than the opti was using at 30mph. This is with 52 gal of fuel, 2people and 43 gal of water in the livewell. By the time you factor in the oil I'm saving $.
Seems to me anything over 150hp on these flat bottom boats just does not give u much more top end.
I know this motor is way too new to brag on it yet but it seems like the perfect flat back motor
It's such a simple motor and seems there is very little to break, will post some pictures in the next few days of this sexy motor
Capt Matt
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Excellent!
I have a buddy that runs this motor on a porta bracket on his flatback. He loves it!
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Good deal Matt, enjoy the new Merc!
The tendency is to overpower these boats, the 22-2's also. They just don't need it.
Both were designed to run with twin 55's. And twin 70's back then...hold on.
Extra horsepower over 150 is unnecessary. Flatback and twelve degree is easy hole shot. If my twin 75 Mercs needed replacement now...would go with the new 2013, 255 pound Yammie four stroke 70's.
But would prefer the Merc equivalent. Merc and Suzuki can't be far behind Yamaha in midrange four stroke weight reduction.
Glad to see you're getting the same performance as before.... yet saving big money on a yearly basis by going with new technology.
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Good news Matt - That new Merc is impressive - 455 lbs and a 3.0 liter I4. Those are big pistons for a 4 cylinder which makes for good torque. Normally you would not be able to twist a motor like that to very high revs, but it's rated to 5800 RPM, so it must have a counterbalanced crankshaft. I think I would prop it for a 5300-5500 max RPM anyway.
Mercury is also going after Yamaha with corrosion - Mercury is advertising their aluminum alloy is much less corrosion-prone than Yamaha, Honda, or Suzuki.
You are one of those guys who uses his boat almost every day - keep us informed of how the new motor does - thanks!! :salut:
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Hey Capt. Matt, I look forward to keeping up with this post for your results. Next time I see you at the ramp I'll intuduce myself and pick your brain on the new motor.
Thanks
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60hrs already and I'm still a very happy camper
After a few trips with 5 anglers on board you do diffenatly notice the slower hole shot compared to the opti
This was expected but with trim tabs down a little she still jumps straight up
Stayed with 17p enerta prop wot is 5700 rpm and 42mph dealer said he wanted to see 5800 rpm at wot close enough!
Motor had me freaked out the other day as water was coming out of what I thought was the oil drain, after some research there is a exhaust port right by the drain.
Capt Matt
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(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz281/captmattmitchell/image.jpg) (http://s836.photobucket.com/user/captmattmitchell/media/image.jpg.html)
Aint she pretty lol
Not quite so much paint on the skeg today since i took this picture
Did have to redo my hydro lines for the power pole and rigging tube since install as mercury switched the side the rigging tube goes in on these motors. Everything else was plug and play with opti max harness gauges etc
Capt Matt
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matt, looks like i may have to come down your way for a visit again, your flattie was impressive with the 175xs and i am definitely curious about performance with the 4s... after running my friends angler 20 bay with a yammy f150 for the last month or so, i have taken to the quietness of the 4 stroke.
i was talking to one of our mercury mechanics/dealers at work yesterday about the new 150 4s, they are impressed with it and havent had anything bad to say about it yet.
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Like the power pole bracket. Away from the client's casts :thumright:
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How much $ did it set you back?
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List price with a 25inch shaft is around $12K,
Feel free to come down for a ride, things have slowed down so we should have time to fish this time.
I still can't get over how quiet it is, you can have a conversation while running 30mph and not have to shout. i have a buddy who just put the new 200 4 stroke yamaha on his flatback and loves it.
To me the 150 is plenty of hp
Capt Matt
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Just sold my AS, looking to power a 1983 Hydra sport 2100 Kevlar. I would love to have the 150 Merc, but I think my boat is just too heavy for it....plus the thing has 24 degrees...
I'm looking at the 200 Verado and the new I4 200 Yami. I've heard horror stories about the verado, and the Yami is 16k without rigging. Ugh............
Anyone else had bad luck with the verados?
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Just sold my AS, looking to power a 1983 Hydra sport 2100 Kevlar. I would love to have the 150 Merc, but I think my boat is just too heavy for it....plus the thing has 24 degrees...
I'm looking at the 200 Verado and the new I4 200 Yami. I've heard horror stories about the verado, and the Yami is 16k without rigging. Ugh............
Anyone else had bad luck with the verados?
Fletch, I had a 1980 2100CC Hydrasport with a 175 Evinrude 2 stroke. That boat by far was the softest, best riding boat I've ever owned. You are gonna love it. The entry is phenomenal. It will run 30 mph in a 3 foot head sea all day.
Only downside is its wet in the wind...but understandable given the soft entry.
It's not a high top-end speed hull...a new 175 should be great, or a 200 if you want.
Oops almost forgot. The front fishbox drains to the transom via a 1.5 inch hose. Make sure there is a seacock back there. Mine nearly sunk once ten miles offshore due to the hose breaking. There was no seacock from the factory :shock:
PS, check the tank too. My coffin was full of water.
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I'd go verado, get the 4cyl 200
These motors are awesome, first yr of production had some issues but we all know better than to buy a new motor in its first year
A 200 or 225 opti would do it too, cheaper and lighter than a verado
Capt Matt
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Might be the opinion of the people in the northeast....but everyone keeps telling me to stay away form the Mercs, and follows up with a horror story about the verados.
I don't know, I've always been a Yami guy....but the prices are nuts.
I have heard amazing things about zuks, but absolutely NO ONE works on them up here. Sames goes with Honda. Also, I have no interested in spending almost the same money for a brand new 2 stroke.
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Mercury has the best warranty in the business hands down and plenty of dealers
Personally the only real choices are mercury and Yamaha mostly because its easy to get the warrenty work done on them, anything else good luck finding someone to work on it and more luck getting parts when it does break. At some point every motor will need parts.
If I had unlimited cash I'd have a verado, once you run one with the power assist steering and fly by wire controls your hooked. Smoothest outboard u will ever run
Buddy of mine has a 150 and a 300 verado on his two guide boats both have been problem free for tons of hours
Capt Matt
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If I had unlimited cash I'd have a verado, once you run one with the power assist steering and fly by wire controls your hooked. Smoothest outboard u will ever run
You can say that again. Makes cable controls feel like something from the stone age in comparison!
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The zukes have had some corrosion issues in this neck of the woods. Also LU problems. The guy that did my rebuild has a rental fleet, has ten 115 4s zukes. He buys them because they're cheaper. If dollars weren't the issue, he'd run Yamaha.
I'd put a lot of stock in the guys that run them everyday. If Matt says go Merc...would be worth a good hard look.
Show us a pic of that 2100CC :thumright:
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Both the Zukes and Yammies have had corrosion issues around here. I know a guy that all he does is fix stuff made out of aluminum. Lower units and powerheads included... Talked to him last week.... he showed me some nasty pics of powerheads with holes rotted right thru them... All Japanese stuff... Zukes and Yammies
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I know the earlier four stroke yamis had issues with the exhaust rotting, and yamaha basically stated that this was a "Normal wear" item, and didnt cover it....leaving people with a 2k plus repair bill. I've always been a Yamaha guy, but that really put a sour taste in my mouth. Recently, our family (my father's) boat was a 34 Spectre. Ran twin 300 verados. Man did they sounds great, and the throttle response was amazing....................when they ran. Engines had mutually exclusive electronic failures, leading to complete engine shutoff. Several ECU's later, and a fresh set of controls, and one season lost, the boat ran well. SO, that left me with a sour taste in my mouth.
Had the opportunity to run the new 29 cobia with twin 300 Yami's.....Holy cow was that impressive. So, I'm really up in there air here.
I'd love to have the reliability turn key motor with a warranty....but at the same time, I don't want to drop 15k into a 1983 boat, especially since I'll likely own it for 2 years or so. Ideally, I'm trying to trade up to a Competition 25 or Redo an old Contender.
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If your looking for a good used four stroke good luck they just seem to really hold there value, we just don't see that many decent 4 stroke mercury or yamaha's for sale even here in Fl. You will have a lot more options and get a much newer 2 stroke opti for whole lot cheaper.
Capt Matt
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My father in law owns and runs a total of 4 Mercury Outboards. One 250 Verado, twin 200 4 Strokes, and one 90 4 stroke. He's retired and uses his boats regularly, not nearly as often as a guide, but more often than I could ever hope to use mine unfortunately. I've driven the Whaler w/ the Verado, and I can testify that it's smooth as silk. Like others have stated, the power steering and fly-by-wire throttle work seamlessly. I have to say, driving the power steering came naturally, but the electronic throttle took some getting used to when you've been used to some kind of feedback. It's super sweet once you get a feel for it. Anyway, he's had mechanical problems with all his outboards. They've all been in the shop, and came back with healthy repair bills. The Mercury on the boat he keeps in the water is horribly corroded, but that could be written off as something that just happens to any outboard that spends its life within inches of saltwater.
I've heard good and bad things about Mercury's Warranty dept. I'm thinking it's all about who your servicing dealer is, and who you ask. The folks I know who run Suzuki's and Yamaha's all love them, but the Zuke guys do have trouble finding a dealer to service them. There's just simply less Suzuki dealers when compared to Yamaha or Mercury. The parts for a Suzuki aren't hard to come by, they're all in stock online most anywhere you look.
I've heard of the corrosion issues with the Suzuki's, but my understanding is that the issue was remedied in 2008. The problem began with the "engine holder bracket" - there was a place where an O2 sensor was intended to be installed in the original design, but the final design didn't come with the sensor in this location, and the hole that was intended for the sensor was left open allowing corrosion to start and spread. I haven't heard of any other types of chronic corrosion issues on the Suzuki's that didn't start with the engine bracket, but I'd like to know if anyone has seen or experienced other specific corrosion issues with this engine. A lot of corrosion issues can be prevented by replacing the aluminum/zinc anodes per the maintenance schedule... lots of times, dealers and owners will overlook these during servicing, or determine that anodes are still good when they really should be replaced.
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My father in law owns and runs a total of 4 Mercury Outboards. One 250 Verado, twin 200 4 Strokes, and one 90 4 stroke. He's retired and uses his boats regularly, not nearly as often as a guide, but more often than I could ever hope to use mine unfortunately. I've driven the Whaler w/ the Verado, and I can testify that it's smooth as silk. Like others have stated, the power steering and fly-by-wire throttle work seamlessly. I have to say, driving the power steering came naturally, but the electronic throttle took some getting used to when you've been used to some kind of feedback. It's super sweet once you get a feel for it. Anyway, he's had mechanical problems with all his outboards. They've all been in the shop, and came back with healthy repair bills. The Mercury on the boat he keeps in the water is horribly corroded, but that could be written off as something that just happens to any outboard that spends its life within inches of saltwater.
I've heard good and bad things about Mercury's Warranty dept. I'm thinking it's all about who your servicing dealer is, and who you ask. The folks I know who run Suzuki's and Yamaha's all love them, but the Zuke guys do have trouble finding a dealer to service them. There's just simply less Suzuki dealers when compared to Yamaha or Mercury. The parts for a Suzuki aren't hard to come by, they're all in stock online most anywhere you look.
Couldn't agree more that the dealer is the key component between you and factory and in reality that is who you should shop first for a new engine or service. I have 4 active Merc's going back to 1995 that have never been in the shop for anything, some engines approaching 800 hours and the point is that you, the owner are the best defense against warranty and maintenance issues. Get the factory manuals, keep them clean and flushed and treat them like family and they will last many years.
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I don't know about the newer Yammies but my '91 has a big ole anode on the bottom of the engine bracket - check that one also.
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Rick, I stumbled across a 91 225 with a total of 250 hours. They want 3k with controls. Any issues with this motor?
I'm a little worried about buying a brand new motor for a boat that's worth next to nothing on paper. As everyone knows, finding decent used motors here in the northeast is a pain in the balls. They tend to be beat to hell, or WAY over priced.
I'd like to have some money left in the kitty to buy some decent electronics.
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Kinda drifting from the Merc thread but hey.....
Engine is very user friendly on self maintenance. The carbs are tech for the time period and work very well. CDI ignition on the 200 (mine) but the 225 may have Yams micro processor controlled style. :scratch:
Shift shaft is steel and prone to rusting away. New factory replacement (stainless) requires power head removal to install but....
An aftermarket item is available that circumvents this. My shaft still has some life left.
Eats gas if you feed it. Likes to run about 4200 rpm.
Rather loud.
Funky cable cowling attachment.
Excellent oil injection system but still uses oil.
Lower unit easy to remove and water pump replacement the same. Easy access to thermostats and pressure relief valve.
Not salt water friendly in that it doesn't have the stainless parts outboards of all manufacturers would get a couple of years later (think ocean pro, ocean runner, salt water series etc).
250 hours? The hour meter was frozen on my 91 at 645 and the PO said it had been that way for years.
Runs great, starts easy and smokes very little. Did I mention it's kinda loud???
Good luck
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The relationship with your dealer/service department is the most important thing with any new motor purchase period, I'm lucky as I'm his only mercury guide and he really takes care of me. I'm yet to have any mercury warranty claim denied in 14yrs
Had a geologist out on boat for a charter
Simply put by him US metal is more pure than Chinese metal that's why it does not get eaten up by the salt as fast
As far as the zukes go maybe getting parts is better than it used to be but everyone I know that bought one who makes a living on the water went back to merc or Yamaha after either major parts issues or the salt just eating them after less than 5yrs. All outboards no matter what brand will break its just how much down time will you have
A fellow guide I know from the marina runs a 300 zuke on his skeeter and blew the lower unit in march, he is still waiting on parts, he could get a brand new lower unit in a few days but just wants to replace just a few gears to save thousands. Warranty won't cover it, bad seal from fishing line and it lost all the lube
He is back to fishing his old flats boat with a looper and still waiting, this is one of many waiting stores I personally know of
My dealer also sells zukes too and describes them as disposable after the warranty is over. How many 10yr old plus ones do u see still running
To each his own
Capt Matt
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The Suzuki/Johnzuki 4 stroke lineup is just now hitting the 10 year mark in 2013, so none of their 4 strokers are running after 10 years because they've only been around for about 10 years. The DT Suzuki's are still around, and they're still running...
Like Fitz says, take care of your engines like family, flush them and tuck them in at night, and they'll last until they're obsolete.
My Zuke dealer describes the DF lineup as "bulletproof", but I'm sure a high caliber rifle could do some damage point blank.
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Not to hijack this any further.....but I bought a low hours 96 225 Merc offshore. Seems pretty simple, and besides it having a "Drinking and smoking problem", it is a really reliable motor. I'm going to start a new thread...feel free to chime in.