Classic AquaSport
Aquasport Model Rebuilds, Mods, Updates and Refreshes => Osprey Style Hull Rebuilds => 196 Rebuilds => Topic started by: jfret on June 26, 2013, 03:45:20 PM
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I recently bought a classic 1974 Aquasport 19-6 as a restoration project. It has set for a few years and needs lots of TLC. She has got quite a few holes in her console from 40 years of attaching various equipment and needs work on the trailer........The motor is a 150 Blackmax XR2 that supposedly ran when parked. The transom seems solid to my inexperienced eye, but has a few holes to fill and the deck is solid all except for a 4-5" strip next all along the port edge....May be remnants of a previous repair job. Otherwise she seems to be in decent shape for 40. A fishing buddy introduced me to "classicaquasport" years ago and I need all the advice I can get so here I am.... I'll be posting pictures as I go....
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//671/thumbs/Aquasport_1_1.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=7523&title=aquasport-1-1&cat=671)
Missing a few parts....
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//671/thumbs/Aquasport_4_1.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=7525&title=aquasport-4-1&cat=671)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//671/thumbs/Aquasport_2_1.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=7524&title=aquasport-2-1&cat=671)
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Welcome aboard! :cheers: Glad you now are officially a contributor and not a lurker! The mods may move your post to the introduce yourself thread, but get some pics posted and you'll instanteously generate more conversation (visual creatures we are). :salut:
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Welcome aboard! She will scoot with the 150 Merc.
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Thanks....Its good to be back. Had to build the old girl a home cause it just won't quit raining long enough to get to work. Still trying to get the hang of the ins and out of photos, albums, links, thumbs, etc...I'm getting there.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//671/Aquaport_037.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=7527&title=aquaport-037&cat=671)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//671/Aquaport_003.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=7529&title=aquaport-003&cat=671)
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Welcome aboard! Nice to see another fellow North Carolinian on here :cheers: ! Boat looks to be in pretty good shape..What do your plans for her look like..just fix the bad and use her or a rebuild? Her home looks like a few pieces of cdx and some shingles and it would make a nice permanate house for her to have shelter under :lol:
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Thanks....Initially I was planning on just fixing the bad but the bad got worse once I started looking :o .....I pulled the tank cover and found a lot of moisture in the foam, (and what looks like "great stuff" insulating foam holding it in......... So the tanks gotta come out.....The deck looks like it has some spillage from some previous repair and it looks like there may have been a patch job on the deck....somewhere.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//671/Console_Removal_005.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=7539&title=prep-for-tank-removal&cat=671)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//671/gas_tank_002.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=7540&title=tank-removal&cat=671)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//671/gas_tank_004.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=7541&title=tank-removal&cat=671)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//671/gas_tank_010.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=7543&title=under-the-bow&cat=671)
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Check out all the fluff in the ventilation tubes!
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//671/gas_tank_010.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=7543&title=under-the-bow&cat=671)
You can also see a water line where she sat for a while.
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The tank appears to be newer. Its definalty not original. Maybe your better off than you think
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Is the coffin box for the tank still there and does it have any holes in it? If the only soft spot is along the port edge of the floor, how long of an area are you talking about? 1 foot to 2 feet long = a fairly easy repair..4 to 5 feet little tougher. When you remove the tank, pull the foam from around it and see how far the wetness goes...all in all she don't look bad... :thumright: If you can get the coffin area dried out, a good reseal when you put it back together should keep the water out. :salut:
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Thanks for the info and interest.....I think at this point it looks like the decks gotta go :shock: . I guess I could fix the ugly but........that's not me. :rambo: ......I'm not familiar with the term "fluff"...what is it? I do see the waterline and I'm guessing it sat like that long enough to do some damage....there was a lot of black slime in the coffin box....which may not be that unusual. I've looked for hours at the postings of deck replacements and working with fiberglass......I'm feeling a little better about it than I did. This site has a ton of information in it.... :cheers:
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I've looked for hours at the postings of deck replacements and working with fiberglass......I'm feeling a little better about it than I did. This site has a ton of information in it.... :cheers:
That's what this site is all about - having members from all over the world, all helping the membership with their experiences and having the resources built up from being here for so long, to do it. You've found the best Aquasport site on the net. Bar none :salut:
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OK....So it was a good weekend as far as the boat goes. I wanted to get the motor off....Done, and put a few pieces of wood on the "Aqua-Port", done... :cheers: I need to finish removing a few stubborn pieces of hardware and then get to the "fun?" part....rebuilding the deck.....but first I need to spend a few more hours researching deck rebuilding and fiberglass repairs....or find someone to farm it out to. Here's a few pics
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//726/Transom_8_.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=10954&title=transom-8&cat=726)
The transom seems rock solid...but ugly.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//726/Transom_1_1.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=10953&title=transom-1-1&cat=726)
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OK.....So over the last week or so It's been a lot of reading and web browsing for me. :study: Being a total "newbie" to boat repairs and fiberglass in general I have a steep learning curve....I've found a lot of answers to my questions in earlier post :oops: and I'm making progress....slow and steady and this weekend I got the deck out.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//707/Deck_Removal_2_.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=10115&title=deck-removal-2&cat=707)
Not what I was expecting to see...OEM decking?
There was lots of moisture under the foam around the gas tanks..I need to see what the foam looks like in the stringers.....I'm guessing there will be moisture...
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//671/0071.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8228&title=deck-removed&cat=671)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//707/workca_095.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=10118&title=workca-095&cat=707)
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(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//672/Deck_Removal_11_.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=7665&title=deck-removal&cat=672)
Not what I was expecting to see...OEM decking?
I'd guess yes. Balsa pieces often used or sheet plywood when the supply was low.
This is the tank cover from my 91. Look close (repair aside) and you can see the balsa wood pieces used.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/91_WAC_Tank_Cover.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=7453&title=91-wac-tank-cover&cat=500)
Great progress. :thumleft:
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Thanks Capt. Bob.....I do see the balsa sections...Not knowing any better I figured I see a more traditional "plywood" look. I suppose I'll replace it with a marine grade plywood equal to the OEM thickness...I've had a bit of trouble posting images...not sure what the problem is. It either works or says something about the image size and I get a timeout message. As a result I got a duplicate picture......let me see if I can delete it.
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Well it's been almost a year since my last post....... :oops: It seems like the scope of this job just kept getting bigger. Meanwhile life goes on. I shall return.
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Hurry back - we're here to help.
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Need pic updates
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(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//707/workca_089.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=10119&title=workca-089&cat=707)
Hopefully I can start fixing the ugly now. The transom had been replaced previously as well as the deck........
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//707/workca_095.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=10118&title=workca-095&cat=707)
I removed several hundred pounds of wet fowl smelling foam from the stringers.....found several areas where the bilge water could get into the stringer cores.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//707/workca_096.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=10121&title=workca-096&cat=707)
The was leakage around the drain pipes...and all along the bottom of the transom to liner deck
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//707/workca_090.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=10120&title=workca-090&cat=707)
Ready for the new transom as soon as I make a few repairs to the old skin.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//707/workca_103.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=10123&title=workca-103&cat=707)
There were several areas of delamination along the keel to be fixed....I stuck my shoe in for reference....what weight of glass does this look like?
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Wow - looks like you have a good dent in the restore already :salut:
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That looks like woven on the keel stringer. If it was me, I would take the middle stringer out and replace with the Prisma stringer system http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/us ... +Stiffener (http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=57774&familyName=Prisma+Composite+Preforms+Hull+Stiffener). The put 1 layer of 1708 over the entire length to cover the joints and call it done. Maybe put 4 of these down the middle for stiffness http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/us ... ull+Planks (http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=57773&familyName=Prisma+Composite+Preforms+Hull+Planks) Wont have to worry about it any longer. Just wet and stick. Your looking good and sound like you have a great plan going
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Thanks for the tip....Checked out the stringer system,impressive. Was hoping I was finished tearing stuff out though but the price is right. I got a question about the the deck. :?: The fuel tank had been replaced and there was a large access panel in the deck. Did the original configuration have a opening this size or was this done when the tank was replaced. Seems like it would be better without it....as long as the tank holds out. :?:
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//671/0102.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=7536&title=lots-of-holes&cat=671)
Thanks for the help!
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Put a new hatch in if $$$ allows. Beats using a skilsaw if problems arise.
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If you are going to use a poly tank, then no issue, just put pie plate or hatch over the filler/vent neck and pick up area to service the hoses and bands. If using Aluminum then put a cover over it so you can inspect and replace at a later date.
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Seamark Boats here does the same thing with poly tanks....solid deck. Get the idea...but the way my luck runs, I'll be the one with the failed seam....
Guess I'm a tank hatch guy, poly or aluminum :wink:
If its in the budget...install a full tank hatch. You won't regret it...and a big plus for resale.
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...but the way my luck runs
That right there is a very true story with you :shock: :oops: :lol:
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Boats without access to the fuel tank (sans hatch) are a cost savings measure and nothing more, therefore I understand why a boat manufacturer would omit one but not someone rebuilding his personal boat. :idea:
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Thanks for the input.....the voice of reason says...."new fuel tank hatch" :cheers:
Bank account says "whoa". :pale: Looking at $500-$600 for similar size hatch at first 2 websites I found. I'll have to ponder that for a while.
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You can build one fairly easy - plenty of rebuilds going on here to give you some ideas and guidance.
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Looking at $500-$600 for similar size hatch at first 2 websites I found
:scratch: Then why not scavenge the skeleton (both lid and frame) of your existing hatch?
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JF, you're in the catbird seat here.
You are doing a complete deck replacement. You can craft the hatch size to whatever you desire. :cheers:
As stated, the tools and talent are scattered throughout this Forum.
You're on a roll, hard part will be picking a color. :scratch:
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Looking at $500-$600 for similar size hatch at first 2 websites I found
:scratch: Then why not scavenge the skeleton (both lid and frame) of your existing hatch?
^^^^^^^
Excellent! :salut:
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As stated, the tools and talent are scattered throughout this Forum.
Capt. Bob.....right you are....just read the thread from Kaptain Koz on hatch mold fabrication....incredible.
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just to follow-up to gran398...I had tossed the old hatch....it didn't have any type of frame. It was screwed down to a lip around the hatch opening. I've never made a hatch but I was pretty sure that I could do a better job so......hope I don't eat those words :lol:
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All good!! Koz is the man, and has done us (and others on the net) a great favor in his documentation :salut:
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My ears were ringing... I thought it was tinnitus but im glad its not! Thanks for the kind words. A tank cover is just a larger version of the door that I made for the hatch. The hardest part should be matching the rounded corners but once you have a mold made the layup is easy. You would have to take into consideration if you are using gel coat or paint. If you are going to paint it then you have to make the mold a fraction of an inch smaller to accommodate the paint after. Gel coat can will pop out the exact size.
I always start with 3/4 oz chopped strand as you want the thinnest glass to conform and marry to the shape of the mold. Fiberglass naturally does not want to bend and does not like right angles so start with the thinnest layer first. Then I would use a layer of 1.5 oz chopped strand. After that you can go with many more layers of 1.5 oz or graduate to 1708 biaxial for fast build. I would think that 3/4 + 1.5 + 1708 + 1708 (about 36 oz of glass) should be enough for a stout shell.
Next is the coring. You can use traditional plywood which is tried and true. You can use synthetic coring like Coosa board or Carbon Core which is pricy and has distinct pluses and minuses, Or you can use Sea Cast self leveling mix which I haven't used myself yet but I am going to core my existing gas tank cover with it. You basically mix the stuff up, pour it in, come back tomorrow and its done. You do have to add a final layer of glass to either the plywood, synthetic coring or the seacast and I would use no less than the 1708 for that. Think of a surfboard, the strength is in the entire assembly of glass, coring, glass. Same thing with the gas tank covers. Also if you use plywood you want to encapsulate it from the elements which that last layer accomplishes.
Resins can be either polyester resin which the whole boat is made of, is the cheapest and most readily available. Or you can go with my favorite, vinylester resin which is (unnecessarily) stronger but more expensive per gallon. Last is epoxy resin which is strongest, most expensive and follows a different set of rules as you cant use chopped strand fiberglass with it because it does not contain styrene which is what breaks down the glue holding the strands together. You also cannot use gel coat on epoxy. Im not a fan of it nor do I have any experience with it. Vinyl or poly is all I am used to.
Lastly consider the thickness of the door. How deep is the frame that the door will sit in. You can make the mounting edge the exact thickness you need to keep the cover flush with the surrounding floor and then have the remainder of the surface thicker for support. For example, lets say you only have 3/4 of an inch depth to the frame. Obviously you could not use 3/4 plywood as the fiberglass could take 1/8 to 3/16th of an inch. You can always use a 3/4 slab but router the edge down so the edge thickness will allow the door to lay flush but then belly to full thickness where it isn't sitting on the lip to keep the door stronger. There are many ways to do it and make it look and work great.
Sorry if I am rambing stuff you may already know but I was on a roll. My hatch frame was the first mold I ever made, the doors to them was the 3rd mold I ever made. I am no expert, If I can do it anyone can. Let me know if you need anything further I am happy to share what I know.
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Thanks to all for the advice and time spent sharing your knowledge..the learning curve is STEEP indeed. :shaking: The sheer volume of product and information out there is overwhelming. I think I've finely got a good enough grasp on the process to get started......thanks to Classic Aquasport and its members. :cheers:
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We are happy to help you out. I started out knowing nothing about my boat and thanks to this site and the people on it, I have attempted things I would not have done without the great guidance found here. I pay it forward as gratitude for what I have learned here. Keep up the good work and post pics.... We love pics!!!!
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Well I have finally finished most of the repair work on the hull and keel issues as well as replacing the existing drains with 2" PVC. I chose to make all repairs so far with epoxy......after many hours of surface prep I applied 2 coats of neat epoxy so it could flow into the nooks and crannies. I decided to take the advice of Aquasport Commodore and go with the Prisma products. I'm going to put the 1708 on when I finish foaming the stringers.
That looks like woven on the keel stringer. If it was me, I would take the middle stringer out and replace with the Prisma stringer system http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/us (http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/us) ... +Stiffener. The put 1 layer of 1708 over the entire length to cover the joints and call it done. Maybe put 4 of these down the middle for stiffness http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/us (http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/us) ... ull+Planks Wont have to worry about it any longer. Just wet and stick. Your looking good and sound like you have a great plan going
Before
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//707/workca_095.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=10118&title=workca-095&cat=707)
After
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//725/Pre_Livewell_Drain.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=10952&title=pre-livewell-drain&cat=725)
There was nothing separating the stringer structure from the bilge drains.....
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//725/livewell_original_condition.png) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=10949&title=livewell-original-condition&cat=725)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//725/Bilge_Drain_edit.png) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=10948&title=bilge-drain-edit&cat=725)
Right or Wrong......2" Drains installed....
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//725/Stringer_Bilge_Drain_Keel_Repair_10_.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=10950&title=keel-and-hull-stiffeners&cat=725)
Hull Stiffeners and Keel repair complete.....
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//725/Hull_and_Keel_Stiffeners_9_.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=10947&title=hull-and-keel-stiffeners-9&cat=725)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//725/Stringer_Bilge_Drain_Keel_Repair_11_.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=10951&title=stringer-bilge-drain-keel-repair-11&cat=725)
Next thing is foaming the stringers....have found this to be pricey as well. Looks like about 350 for 20 cubic ft of 4lb 2 part.... :santa:
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Looking good. Are those the 4" ones? Suggestion, you might want to make a small pad out of left over epoxy and cabisol or chop strand fibers and pour into a form. Let harden and remove. Attach to the bilge area with epoxy and then use as a pad to screw in bilge float switch and bilge pump. Similar as to this stuff http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/us ... lass+Board (http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=8758&familyName=G10+Fiberglass+Board). It won't rot, hold the screw and not compromise the hull bottom. As for the foam, see if a local boat builder will give you a price on just spraying in the foam for you and you do the rest. Might be cheaper or just the same amount as you doing it yourself.
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Looking real nice :salut: The drains are a nice addition.
Another point of view is that I am not sure you need the 4lb foam as the stringers are the structural part - think about using the 2Lb version. You can stabilize the stringers by putting a strip of cloth from side to side over the top every couple feet (maybe with poly) to keep them from deforming. You can save some bucks :idea:
That's what I would do and is what I did on mine.
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Thanks for the compliments and advice....Yes they are the 4" stiffeners, they were not expensive but they sucked up the epoxy :pig: ....I read through numerous forums on "structural foam and stringers" but all I could find was conflicting information......using 2lb foam will save quite a bit of money...nice. What are your thoughts on pouring the foam? Should I enclose the stringers and leave a few access holes or is there another way?
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If you are going the pour method, put into the open stringers. Cut the top level at the desired height. Round over the edges and reglass. Much easier then trying to pour into a hold and having voids.
As for the 2lb here is what Us Composites says http://www.uscomposites.com/foam.html (http://www.uscomposites.com/foam.html)
Common Applications: Our 2LB density marine foam is recommended for void filling in nonstructural applications. This product can be poured underneath decks and inside cavities where a lightweight flotation foam is needed to provide buoyancy. This foam has been tested in accordance with U.S. Coast Guard Regulation # 33 CFR 183.114 . This foam is approximately 95-98% closed cell which resists absorbing water, however continuous water submersion can eventually lead to loss of buoyancy over a period of years. We recommend this product strictly for flotation applications. If looking for a liquid foam for sculpting or casting we recommend using at minimum our 3LB or 4LB density.
Here is the 4lb
Common Applications: This 4LB density foam is suited well for most flotation applications that require more support than the 2LB offers. This foam is recommended to be used when supporting gas tanks and some deck areas. Choose this density if you feel that the foam will be required to withstand minor to moderate loads. The 4LB density also works well in floating decoy or taxidermy applications as well as many other sculpting, casting, carving and other filling applications
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While Rick's recommendation is probably fine, especially if you plan on putting foam between the stringers for flotation, I personally would (and did) use 4# foam. While many will argue that the stringer foam is not structural, I know the foam did make a tremendous difference in the strength of my stringers. On my flatback, the stringer glass was pretty thin and quite flexible with the foam removed. After filling them with 4# foam, I can stand on them with zero flex and zero compression - they are rock solid. By comparison, I filled the center stringer in the bow with 2# foam (I am one of the few that left that stringer there - most removed it). This stringer is a little bit "spongy" feeling compared to the others. Granted, I probably have more glass on the main stringers than the front stringer, but the main stringers will be supporting quite a bit of weight, so I wouldn't skimp on the filler.
On the other hand, if your stringers are as robust as Rick's, you probably dont need any foam at all :salut:
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Thanks for the input......I'm guessing this topic has been discussed before and I can see why...... Are the stringers themselves the structural component with the 2lb foam primarily providing floatation, or do the stringers depend on the 4lb foam for additional structure. Is the density of the original foam known? The stringers in my boat are pretty stout...if they were closed in with 1708 I don't believe they would flex at all but I really don't have any idea of the stress they would be under in heavy swells. I also have a question for the Moderator(s). I am looking at buying a trailer and boat (not an Aquasport) for the motor, trailer, and salvage parts. I'd like member input on this. Should I post as new topic or continue in this forum. Thanks :|
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I am looking at buying a trailer and boat (not an Aquasport) for the motor, trailer, and salvage parts. I'd like member input on this. Should I post as new topic or continue in this forum. Thanks :|
If this idea is to be used in your rebuild, you could leave it here but.....
A new thread will probably get you more response and and allow you to describe what your looking for and what you end up with. You then can then work it (if that is the intent of the purchase) back into this thread. I suggest you place the new thread in the Generic Rebuild Topics forum and let's see what happens.
Good luck.
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It's been a long cold winter here in NC and it gave this newbie a lot of time to read some of the awesome rebuild threads in this forum. :singing: I've been working pretty hard on the AS and the motor and the trailer for the last couple of months but the weather is crazy this year. Beautiful and 75 degrees for couple of days and then raining like crazy and in the 50's the next..... I've did get the majority of the foam in but was a quart or two low. I'm hoping to get the transom in soon but had to change plans. First off I wish I had cut the inside skin out of the transom and left the outside. Had to cut the inside skin out to make room for 2 3/4 plys. Could have saved a ton of time chiseling, grinding and...oh well. Cut the new transom and am ready to epoxy it in next week. Plan on not using the old skins....going to start fresh with new skins inside and out. The motor I'm planning on using has a 25 inch shaft....If this motor is a bust I will buy a new one. That's the plan.... hope it's the right one. One question that I have......If I have to buy a new motor should I go back to a 20" transom? What are the advantages-disadvantages?
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/748/0044.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=11922&title=0044&cat=748)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/748/0053.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=11923&title=0053&cat=748)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/726/workca_0912.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=11920&title=workca-0912&cat=726)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/726/0424151920.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=11915&title=0424151920&cat=726)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/726/0424151919.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=11914&title=0424151919&cat=726)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/726/0424151902.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=11912&title=0424151902&cat=726)
The initial fitting had this large gap. More fitting to do.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/726/0424151902a.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=11913&title=0424151902a&cat=726)
:33:
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So your plan has changed - man don't I know about that x100.
So what I think you may want to think about is laying a flat waxed melamine or Formica faced something that is smooth or semi smooth and waxed/PVA across the back of the transom and build a nice flat outer skin from the inside first.
Here's a couple of examples to browse through.
http://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=4582.0
http://forums.bateau2.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=11294 Look down a few pics and you'll see how he did it
I think you need to start, while you still have the chance, with a nice flat transom tied into the inside of the boat and build up from the inside to the thickness of the outer thickness of what you left. Measure the hull width the way you have the plywood cut, remove the plywood and secure the hull to the same width and then use what I was talking about above. Once you get a nice flat transom then you can use the plywood and get a solid transom.
I think you'll be happier with the results and it'll be flat and ready to fair.
Maybe Chris and Joel can help here on how they did it.
As for motors, are you going to use a jackplate or a lift (porta). If so a 20" can be used effectively or a 25".
We have quite a few members that can help you better on that. I bought a jackplate for my 170 because I didn't think through the engine mounting enough and my floor height ended up on a bolt :confused1: sooo.... I will mount the jackplate and then an extension (I have hydraulic steering so I need clearance for the cylinder) and then I can jack the motor up to 20" or whatever I need for the moment.
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Thanks again Rick........Without CA and it's members I'd be up the creek. The tutorial on bateau2 is the same situation, as mine. :93: I didn't want to cut the remainder of the outer transom off although that may be better. Looks like I'll have to cut the stringers back to allow more overlap? Although the post said 12" inches of overlap it looked more like 6" on the hull and 6 on the transom? As for the jackplate....that's a possibility.They look awesome....do they enhance they performance as much as the appearance? Is is primarily for running shallow water? ...
:c017:
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The man that did the rebuild on Bateau is a long-time member here and also a Vendor here, maybe he'll stop in and give us his opinion on the way to go.
I just think it'll be more secure and a better finish if you do it from the inside and use epoxy for the strength since this is structural. The nice thing is you still have the original outer skin at the corners. Who knows, Joel may say cut the skin off and start fresh - we'll find out. We have rebuilds doing it both ways.
As for the Jackplate - not sure how "good" it will look but it was the way I had to go to fix an oops. They do allow you to fine tune engine height for the situation you are in.
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The overlaps are very important.
Looks like I'll have to cut the stringers back to allow more overlap? Although the post said 12" inches of overlap it looked more like 6" on the hull and 6 on the transom?
I would cut them back 12". If you cant, at least overlap the skin 12" up and go around the stringer.
Keep the lip of the old transom
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I think you'll find you're going to have to cut back the liner also to do the overlaps.
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10-4 on cutting back the liner and stringers to 12".....looks like I'm back to grinding.
:c017:
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Made some progress on the 196 over the last couple of weeks...once I got over the "day care disease" my grandson gave me..... :73: got all the foam in and stringer caps cut and epoxied......got most of them in place. I poured the foam with open stringers....seemed to work OK Used about 20 cu/ft of foam. Didn't have any problems. I used 3/4 inch marine plywood on the caps and will top them off with a layer of 1708 over the entire stringer. Got most of the grinding and transom prep done, (cutting back the stringers and liner) and hope to get it going this weekend....progress is slow but it is progress. On a side note I did get the roller trailer converted to bunks and under the boat to check the fit. Pictures will be in the trailer forum. Also decided not to waste any time on the old Evinrude Oceanpro......decided to buy a new motor. Just got to decide what make/model.......
Here's a few pictures....
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/748/Stringer_Caps_and_Transom_Prep_016.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=12095&title=stringer-caps-and-transom-prep-016&cat=748)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/748/Stringer_Caps_and_Transom_Prep_015.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=12094&title=stringer-caps-and-transom-prep-015&cat=748)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/748/Stringer_Caps_and_Transom_Prep_001.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=12093&title=stringer-caps-and-transom-prep-001&cat=748)
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Lookin' good indeed! :thumright:
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Cooking on - looks GREAT!! :salut2:
Question. Did you measure the width of the hull at the rear top before cutting out the transom? I realize you have a lip around the outside but just to be sure the trailer doesn't deform the hull and change that measurement.
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Question. Did you measure the width of the hull at the rear top before cutting out the transom? I realize you have a lip around the outside but just to be sure the trailer doesn't deform the hull and change that measurement.
Kinda....I didn't get a measurement prior to removing the core and exterior skin..... I measured and cut a 2x4 to the width at the top prior to removing the inside skin and used it to keep it from warping inward. Are there any records or factory documents with this information. I do have the exterior skin in one piece....I guess this could be useful.
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Ok, so you have the 2x4. You should check and make sure that it still fits the way it did and secure it back onto the wood "nailer" at the top of the hull sides at the rear. Until you get this all locked back together with a transom I think it would be a smart/safe thing to do.
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Ok, so you have the 2x4. You should check and make sure that it still fits the way it did and secure it back onto the wood "nailer" at the top of the hull sides at the rear. Until you get this all locked back together with a transom I think it would be a smart/safe thing to do.
100% agree. On my flatback rebuild I used 3 or 4 2x4 (clamps) to hold things straight. :tu4:
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Question. Did you measure the width of the hull at the rear top before cutting out the transom? I realize you have a lip around the outside but just to be sure the trailer doesn't deform the hull and change that measurement.
Kinda....I didn't get a measurement prior to removing the core and exterior skin..... I measured and cut a 2x4 to the width at the top prior to removing the inside skin and used it to keep it from warping inward. Are there any records or factory documents with this information. I do have the exterior skin in one piece....I guess this could be useful.
Ok got to admit was little worried that I may have let the transom deform by not having a brace attached....The 2x4 I cut as a brace seemed to fit a little lower that it should so I measured diagonally from chine to top of hull sides and the measurements were the same so at least the transom is symmetrical.....and I also found the template I used to cut the transom with and checked against that....it may have opened up at the top slightly.....I think I'll be OK, before I fasten on the melamine to layup the skin I will make sure it is square.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/726/transom_diagonals.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=12123&title=transom-diagonals&cat=726)
After a beer or 8 I had a vision of a simple coffin box. Went to the scrap pile and came up with this....simple enough yet should work...
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/756/0513151949a.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=12122&title=0513151949a&cat=756)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/756/0513151949.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=12121&title=0513151949&cat=756)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/756/0513151946.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=12120&title=0513151946&cat=756)
Was thinking I would put a couple coats epoxy on all sides and maybe some cloth on the inside....the original box did not have a drain, which apparently isn't uncommon, but I've noticed most people opted for drains when restoring......got to say I'm getting a more motivated every day now.
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I am a firm believer that you do get smarter after a beer or 8 :hee20hee20hee:
Looks good and the plan sounds solid.
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Took a few days off to finish the stringer caps and coffin box.....grinding, sanding, cutting and gluein........since it is a long weekend I did a good bit of this too.. :party: :103:
3 coats of epoxy on all parts of the coffin box.....a lot of work involved in making the parts.....going through gloves and epoxy pretty fast.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/756/boat_13_.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=12146&title=boat-13&cat=756)
Using the latest tool technology to hold parts in place.....will finish gluing in the rest of the box this AM.....then it's off to go fishing with my son.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/756/coffin_box_6_.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=12149&title=coffin-box-6&cat=756)
getting a lot of good experience handling the epoxy and fillers......I was going to do the transom next but I think I'll work on some more parts and get more hands on with the epoxy and cloth. It should pay off when I get to the transom...
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We have a couple of epoxy guys here that can give you some good advice. They'll pop in hopefully before you finish. I used it on the lower portion of my rebuild but I used composites, except for the transom. Love the
latest tool technology to hold parts in place
- we do see some unique things here :hee20hee20hee:
I think a properly epoxy coated piece of wood will outlast us all.
Are you using the mask for the epoxy fumes or for grinding? I never smell anything when I'm using epoxy. I do like the smell of Styrene though (poly).
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Using the mask for epoxy fumes and grinding.....I have an reaction on my skin like poison ivy from epoxy so I'm not taking any chances with the lungs...I haven't used any poly yet....but I've heard it smells pretty strong.
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My entire 19-6 rebuild was done with epoxy and I used a mask, goggles and long sleeves whenever I sanded or put down new epoxy..You will love it when you get epoxy on your arm and it dries there :a0004: Are you using any glass on your tank box at all or just the side the tank sits on. My tank area has drain holes on the stern end and has a open space across the top for ventilation, the floor has 2, 8 inch pie covers for the sending unit and the hose hook ups and a 4 inch pie plate for the vent. The 8 inchers are under my console., Poly tank was used and so far no problems or complaints :13: Looks like you've got a good hand on the process and she is looking pretty good..
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Thanks gman....definitely know what it feels like when the epoxy dries on the skin.......goodbye hair. I've been using long sleeve tees shirts when I can.....I need some of the tyvek sleeves I've seen-on line....Most of the jeans I wore will stand up by themselves .I'm going to use cloth on the tank side only....got a healthy 3 coats of epoxy on the sides and more on the edges of all parts..I'm going to put drain holes in the stern as well.....did you use any type of liner in your box? Mine had a thick rubber liner under the tank, (poly)....there were no straps and it was held in with foam...I'll be using straps and rubber insulators ..... getting the feel for working with the epoxy and cloth.....
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It was a great Memorial Day in sunny NC.....weather was perfect for working on anything or nothing... Finished the coffin box and stringer caps with only a couple of oh chits....and oops...It is murder on the back getting at the coffin box....Getting a lot of practice with cloth and epoxy.....wish I had an extra hand or 2. Next on the list is the transom. Will be ordering more epoxy today.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/756/0526150825.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=12164&title=0526150825&cat=756)
In the "if I did it again I would have" department.
1. Not cut all the stringers to 6 inch width....they varied quite a bit. Should have laid the plywood on top and traced off the stringer.
2. Assemble the coffin box on my work table......it was murder on my back trying to lay the glass and epoxy in the boat...... :c002:
There were a couple of air pockets on top of the stringers where the glass wouldn't lay down.....The rest of the light colored areas are where I filled in to prevent air pockets.....Also had a couple of stray epoxy gobs to grind off.......after my back started hurting I only wanted to get the heck out of the boat.
Live and Learn
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Looks like nice clean work on the tabbing :salut2:
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Nice work! One suggestion on resin conservation though, your fillets don't need to be anywhere near the size they are in the bottom of the coffin. Just enough to let the tabbing make that turn.
If possible i try to have other areas that will need a fillet in the future ready for one when I mix a batch. So any extra goes there
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Nice work! One suggestion on resin conservation though, your fillets don't need to be anywhere near the size they are in the bottom of the coffin. Just enough to let the tabbing make that turn.
that looks like big fat fillet but is actually foam tape.....I've certainly went through the epoxy and the transoms up next.....thanks for the input...it is appreciated.
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That tape sounds handy, have a link to it?
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Rick....I found that foam tape hanging on the pegboard in my shed....it's been there for years and I don't know where I got it. The closest thing I can find looks like this except it's not as wide...http://www.uline.com/Product/Detail/S-16137/3M-Double-Sided-Tapes/3M-4466-Double-Sided-Foam-Tape-1-x-36-yds....
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Sorry for the delay in answering, was out of town celebrating birthday # ??... :06: . I made hold-down straps for my tank. attached to the sides of the stringers on pads I mounted there. No liner but I did 5200 some long 6 inch plastic pads that were about 3/8 inch thick to the bottom of the tank so it can "breathe", lets condensation out the drain holes.. :13:
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Still waiting to start on the transom.....am shooting for this weekend when I can get some additional help for the day to mix the epoxy. Have spent some time going over all the transom rebuild threads again.....(Hats off to Joel's rebuild documents). I did manage to find a use for old wobble rollers....now I can take the chainsaw to the old boat and make some room for more junk.... :hee20hee20hee:
Got the plans for the stand off the internet....just made it a little bigger.....cant believe how well the roller bracket fit inside the scrap 2" tubing I had
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/765/0606151346a.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=12294&title=0606151346a&cat=765)
Ready to hoist the old donor motor
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/765/0606151346.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=12293&title=0606151346&cat=765)
Went easier than I expected....goodbye Sunbird
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/765/0606151737.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=12296&title=0606151737&cat=765)
The footprint of the rollers made it easy to roll across the ground and they gave it extra stability when pushing....
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/765/0606151736.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=12297&title=0606151736&cat=765)
Pretty darned pleased with the days work..... :woohoo:
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Looks like my son's old skateboard on steroids. :great02:
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Cool. It works for you but I wonder if you had mounted the motor on the other side of the board if it would have centered the weight and made it even easier to roll. Doesn't matter as long as it works but just thinking aloud...
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Yep.... that's kinda what my buddy said, in a not so nice way...... :a102: Anyhow it was late in the day and I blame it on the faulty directions.. ;-)
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Hey that's how we learn. If we never did stuff a different way than expected we'd never progress in our learning.
I have a student in class this week who's motto (it seems) is "always do it wrong the first time so I know better the next time".
No big deal bud :nSalute:
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As long as she holds the engine up, I say job well done, gotta love the new use of the rollers...
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Had to go back and look at the design to see where I went off course.......I didn't take into account that I made it 1 foot wider and 1 foot longer and a foot taller than the design. It was made for a 50HP I think.. should have moved the base forward.... Well I have plenty of room for batteries, tools, gas tanks, console...beer cooler......actually the beer cooler may have been to close while I was putting it together. :a0007:
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/765/Capture.PNG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=12326&title=capture&cat=765)
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actually the beer cooler may have been to close while I was putting it together. :a0007:
:laugh03:
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Ok....so it's been a while since I've done anything worth mentioning on the boat....I got sidetracked for a while...But I haven't quit and still plan am still on schedule to finish sometime in 2017. :cheering2: Well hopefully before then but you never know. This past weekend the weather in NC was perfect, mid 70's all weekend and I had someone to help me....... so I got the new skin for the transom started......Couldn't get it finished but hey at this point it's still progress. So I figured I would share a few pictures.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/726/Terri_holding_Melamine_1_.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=13258&title=terri-holding-melamine-1&cat=726)
My girlfriend Terri holding the melamine in place...I tried to get her to look at the camera but she wouldn't because she didn't have any makeup on. :shock:
LOL hope she doesn't see this.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/726/New_Skin_11_.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=13259&title=new-skin-11&cat=726)
I used a few screws to pull the melamine up snug to the existing skin then used a wood flour epoxy paste filet.... and put down 1 layer of 6oz first, then removed the backing blocks and put a 2nd with 18oz....
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/726/New_Skin_16_.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=13260&title=new-skin-16&cat=726)
It came out pretty good for a first timer I think. There's a few spots that need a little touch up.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/726/New_Skin_19_.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=13261&title=new-skin-19&cat=726)
I plan on additional layers but was wondering how many....dirt put 4 biax on the outside.....Shine put most on the inside.....
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Id do 2 more biax on top of your 6oz and 18oz. Id run the tabs a lil deeper into the hull than that first layer as well. 3 layers inside will be plenty :035: