Classic AquaSport

Aquasport Mechanicals - things that need a wrench, screwdriver or multimeter => Engines & engine woes => Topic started by: gran398 on February 09, 2013, 09:27:32 AM

Title: Fitz and the Twins
Post by: gran398 on February 09, 2013, 09:27:32 AM
Guys, Fitz did a tremendous job on the 75 Mercs. He taught me a lot too, and I'm very appreciative.

THANKS Farley :thumright:  :thumright:

I thought I'd share what was accomplished. What really impressed me was the organization of parts, cleanliness of the work area, and processes. Nothing was ever "forced" or beat on.

Here are a few pics to start:

(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_1579.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=6531&title=img-1579&cat=500)

(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_1580.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=6532&title=img-1580&cat=500)

(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_1581.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=6533&title=img-1581&cat=500)
Title: Re: Fitz and the Twins
Post by: fitz73222 on February 09, 2013, 12:42:00 PM
Thanks Scotty,

I don't have the rest of the pictures here...They're on my laptop at work;so post away if you would. What we had to do to these engines is a perfect example of why it is so important to do annual maintenance. These engines are 2004 vintage and the gearcases had never been off. These lived in South Florida salt and it showed. Our goal was to rebuild all 6 carbs, add the extension housings to make these 25" shafts for the new transom height, install complete water pump kits, grease,gearlube and fire them up before we went to Bobs. Weeks before Scotty came down my only apprehension was the potential for stuck gearcases. Well the apprehension became real. On some Mercury models they use studs and nuts to secure the gearcase to the midsections. Salt can accumulate between the stud clearance holes and studs. These were literally welded with salt impaction. Heating the area around the stud did nothing. Some people resort to prying and beating on the case to get them loose and wind up damaging the gear housing and midsection mating joint. So I partially reinstalled the nuts on the studs and with block of wood and a prybar tried to walk the gearcase off of the studs by pushing upward on the nut and pushing the gearcase down. That got me about 1/16 of an inch after about 3 hours. So I decided to pull the powerheads and get crankshaft out of the driveshaft spline so I could rock the lowerunit front to back, combined with heat and prying they eventually came off after about 6 hours on each unit. My goal was to not damage these engines for many reasons besides we needed to maintain a flat unbuggered surface to mate up the new 5" extension housings. While I was dealing with these stuck gearcases; we called around for powerhead gaskets to no avail and finally found them ay my friends down at Funtime Boats in Merritt Island. So Scotty drove the 150 mile round trip and brought back 2 gaskets. The pictures show what we dealt with when we started to work on the water pumps. I've never seen waterpumps this full of salt. Completely encrusted, finally got them apart with more heat and patience. Didn't break one bolt luckily.
Title: Re: Fitz and the Twins
Post by: Blue Agave on February 09, 2013, 01:04:08 PM
South Florida?  :scratch:

Are the twins the offsring of Ms. Marco?

Once Encrusted, Now Loved.  :cheers:
Title: Re: Fitz and the Twins
Post by: fitz73222 on February 09, 2013, 04:34:42 PM
Quote from: "Blue Agave"
South Florida?  :scratch:

Are the twins the offsring of Ms. Marco?

Once Encrusted, Now Loved.  :cheers:

Yep,
That be them. So the engines went from Marco to NC and back to Brooksville. Miss Marco went from Marco to NC and back to Port Ritchey. Me And Scotty saw her in the back of a shop on the ground and being scuttled for parts. The bow deck was being put in a Proline.
Title: Re: Fitz and the Twins
Post by: gran398 on February 09, 2013, 06:04:38 PM
Ah, the Virgin Miss Marco. Pure as the driven snow. Spent her life indoors.

Used only once.....to take his wife to church :salut:
Title: Re: Fitz and the Twins
Post by: Aswaff400 on February 09, 2013, 06:24:25 PM
ive seen stuck gear cases more than a dozen times at the marina. them mercs love to put up a fight :lol:
Title: Re: Fitz and the Twins
Post by: gran398 on February 09, 2013, 07:12:19 PM
Fellas, Farley began my apprenticeship showing the proper technique to remove old gaskets. My first job was "Gasket Scraper."

Then I moved up to Torch Man. Finally, I was a Torque Wrench Man.

He did a helluva job.

More pics in chronological order:

(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_1582.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=6534&title=img-1582&cat=500)

(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_1583.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=6535&title=img-1583&cat=500)

(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_1584.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=6536&title=img-1584&cat=500)
Title: Re: Fitz and the Twins
Post by: gran398 on February 09, 2013, 07:22:34 PM
This is my first assignment

(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_1589.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=6541&title=img-1589&cat=500)

After 12 hours of heartache....both LU's off

(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_1591.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=6543&title=img-1591&cat=500)

Farley showing his appreciation :mrgreen:

(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_1592.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=6544&title=img-1592&cat=500)
Title: Re: Fitz and the Twins
Post by: fitz73222 on February 09, 2013, 07:57:21 PM
Show us more Uncle Scotty! This thread will be dead by Sunday night! Post the damn pictures...
Title: Re: Fitz and the Twins
Post by: wingtime on February 09, 2013, 08:01:09 PM
More Pics Scotty!  you on dial up or something?  :lol:  Overall the motors look like they are in pretty good shape.
Title: Re: Fitz and the Twins
Post by: seabob4 on February 09, 2013, 08:02:47 PM
Awesome job on the mating surfaces Scott!  You know Farley, in regards to Scott's boat, I'm glad I'm not you.  But, if you took a good "inside" look at the Glacier Bay that showed up today, well, I'm sure you'd say you're glad you're not me!!
Title: Re: Fitz and the Twins
Post by: gran398 on February 09, 2013, 10:14:31 PM
Quote from: "fitz73222"
Show us more Uncle Scotty! This thread will be dead by Sunday night! Post the damn pictures...


Oh Noooo....we're just gettin' rollin' brothers.

Gotta "Whole Lotta Love" left :thumright:
Title: Re: Fitz and the Twins
Post by: gran398 on February 09, 2013, 10:19:31 PM
PS...ya'll look at my younger brother showing the love in that last pic.....man...that's de chit right there :salut:
Title: Re: Fitz and the Twins
Post by: gran398 on February 09, 2013, 11:17:28 PM
Carb rebuilds:

(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_1593.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=6545&title=img-1593&cat=500)

(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_1594.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=6546&title=img-1594&cat=500)

Port side LU, prepping for Bay Manufacturing 5" extension kit:

(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_1595.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=6547&title=img-1595&cat=500)
Title: Re: Fitz and the Twins
Post by: gran398 on February 09, 2013, 11:27:21 PM
Hoods, midsection covers:

(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_1596.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=6548&title=img-1596&cat=500)

The heat is on...breaking corrosion on original water pump housing:

(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_1598.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=6549&title=img-1598&cat=500)

The reason for scheduled  LU maintenance:

(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_1599.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=6550&title=img-1599&cat=500)
Title: Re: Fitz and the Twins
Post by: gran398 on February 09, 2013, 11:38:04 PM
To the right are two circular areas. These are bolts encrusted with salt. All bolts were dug out clean with a picking tool, air-blasted, and sprayed with WD-40:

(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_1600.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=6551&title=img-1600&cat=500)

After excavation... and rebuild....fresh water pump and housing, ready for install:

(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_1601.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=6552&title=img-1601&cat=500)

Prepping for the LU extension kit install:

(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_1602.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=6553&title=img-1602&cat=500)
Title: Re: Fitz and the Twins
Post by: RickK on February 10, 2013, 06:47:06 AM
Quote from: "gran398"
Ah, the Virgin Miss Marco. Pure as the driven snow. Spent her life indoors.

Used only once.....to take his wife to church :salut:
That's funny - sorry to laugh at your expense but that old man was such a liar.  May he slow-simmer in hell with a job of replacing water pumps for eternity.
Title: Re: Fitz and the Twins
Post by: fitz73222 on February 10, 2013, 07:13:57 AM
At least the good news is that everything that needed to be replaced was replaced and all the bolts and studs were loctited or coated with Mercury Perfect Seal, torqued and will come apart 5 years from now. Scotty got to see how these engines are put together and got a good education about how to do things right so when he gets them serviced in the future he'll know what the tech is talking about.
Title: Re: Fitz and the Twins
Post by: gran398 on February 10, 2013, 10:11:40 AM
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_1603.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=6554&title=img-1603&cat=500)

Changing thermostat

(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_1604.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=6555&title=img-1604&cat=500)

Installing longer LU studs

(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_1605.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=6556&title=img-1605&cat=500)
Title: Re: Fitz and the Twins
Post by: gran398 on February 10, 2013, 10:17:51 AM
Mounting powerheads

(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_1607.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=6557&title=img-1607&cat=500)

(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_1608.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=6558&title=img-1608&cat=500)

Jackleg installed linkage, port side

(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_1610.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=6559&title=img-1610&cat=500)

Starboard side
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_1611.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=6560&title=img-1611&cat=500)
Title: Re: Fitz and the Twins
Post by: gman 82 aquasport on February 10, 2013, 01:25:51 PM
How long had these motors sat?  Most people would have used a BFH(big f-ing hammer) to get them loose and probably broke a few things in the process.. :x You guys did a great job of cleaning up the lower cases :salut:
Title: Re: Fitz and the Twins
Post by: saltfly on February 10, 2013, 02:14:19 PM
In one way you guys were lucky :scratch: . At least you could get the power heads off. I’ve seen them so bad, you couldn’t get them off. The spline of the drive shaft was so corroded into the crank shift, that it wouldn’t come off. That’s why heat PB blaster and never seize have become my best friends when working on motors used in salt water. :thumleft:
Title: Re: Fitz and the Twins
Post by: bondobill on February 10, 2013, 10:26:24 PM
Quote from: "gran398"

Farley showing his appreciation :mrgreen:

(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_1592.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=6544&title=img-1592&cat=500)


Perfect    :lol:

Bill
Title: Re: Fitz and the Twins
Post by: seabob4 on February 10, 2013, 10:43:51 PM
Sorta like this?   (http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh301/seabob4/Smilies/Smiley.gif)
Title: Re: Fitz and the Twins
Post by: slvrlng on February 11, 2013, 10:54:31 AM
Because of their past life do you think these motors would be a candidate for Mr Demeanor's vinegar in a drum treatment? I don't think it would hurt and could possibly get the water passages really cleaned out where you guys couldn't get to.

Link to Demeanor's thread, actually a really good read!

http://www.thehulltruth.com/boating-for ... negar.html (http://www.thehulltruth.com/boating-forum/368827-how-cleaning-your-cooling-system-vinegar.html)
Title: Re: Fitz and the Twins
Post by: gran398 on February 11, 2013, 11:44:48 AM
Glad you remembered that! SB says he has a tank :thumright:
Title: Re: Fitz and the Twins
Post by: RickK on February 11, 2013, 07:05:55 PM
How were the thermostats?  I think the condition of them might give you a clue, along with the water pump, as to the condition of the insides of the engine.  Farley I think would agree unless he peeked already at that.
Title: Re: Fitz and the Twins
Post by: seabob4 on February 11, 2013, 07:38:29 PM
Scotty, I NEED to get a tank!  List of things to do...
Title: Re: Fitz and the Twins
Post by: gran398 on February 11, 2013, 07:40:28 PM
Farley mentioned the thermostat orifices were very clean. The water pump outer housings were nasty, but inside not too bad.

The powerheads were pretty damn clean.

Priced new 25" shaft twins today just for reference. Bombardier E-Tec 90's, $18,500.

Yamaha 25" four-stroke 90's, Suzy 25" 4 stroke 90's....around 17K, the Suzy's just a bit less.

Merc's were too heavy in 90 horse....380 pounds for two stroke, 402 for the four stroke (each).

The way Farley built them...Lord willing they'll be two chicken' eatin' babes  for a LONG time :thumright:

Sure beats buying new ones right now. Try 'splainin' THAT to the wife :shock:
Title: Re: Fitz and the Twins
Post by: fitz73222 on February 11, 2013, 07:42:02 PM
Quote from: "RickK"
How were the thermostats?  I think the condition of them might give you a clue, along with the water pump, as to the condition of the insides of the engine.  Farley I think would agree unless he peeked already at that.

Hi Rick,

The powerheads were in very good shape considering the lower units. There was very little evidence of powerhead corrosion. When we took off the thermostat covers, the passages were considerably clean with a small amount of salt. The thermostats appearance wise were fine. There was very little if any salt in the exhaust tuner or powerhead base. A little corrosion on the stud nuts (brass). Very little carbon build up at the main exhaust opening. These engines didn't appear to have excessive hours, just neglect. I think these engines sat a lot. Someone had been tinkering the low speed mixture adjustment on the carbs because they were completely maladjusted too rich and too lean; I always check before tear down and compare to the base 1 1/2 turns out so the engine will start and idle reasonably. Also someone has got the timing and synchronization totally messed up. The side view of the timing arms in the photos are showing the timing at full advance against the stops with the throttle position at idle. Almost like someone had the timing arms off and the spring is in backwards. I really don't know how they ran at all. I'll be over at Bobs in the next couple of weeks to deal with that and get them fired up and adjusted.
Title: Re: Fitz and the Twins
Post by: seabob4 on February 11, 2013, 07:51:38 PM
So should I get the plastic barrel Farley?  Or will muffs do?
Title: Re: Fitz and the Twins
Post by: fitz73222 on February 11, 2013, 08:08:02 PM
I'll bring everything; muffs, fresh non eth pre-mix, tank and line,tools, etc, etc. These engines don't need the vinegar massengale treatment. I can get pretty close with adjustments on the hose and when we splash her, I'll do the final idle speed in gear before we blast off. I'd hate to see how fast you can rig a boat when your busting your ass, holy crap! It looks fantastic!
Title: Re: Fitz and the Twins
Post by: seabob4 on February 12, 2013, 12:06:00 AM
Having fun Farley... :wink:  :wink:
Title: Re: Fitz and the Twins
Post by: Necessary Evil on February 14, 2013, 04:39:44 PM
Do you know the weight of these two motors? Can't wait for the sea trial!
Title: Re: Fitz and the Twins
Post by: gran398 on February 14, 2013, 04:53:56 PM
Want to say somewhere around 340 each with SS props, but Fitz will know exactly.

Come on over when she's ready :thumright:
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