Classic AquaSport
Aquasport Model Rebuilds, Mods, Updates and Refreshes => Miscellaneous Aquasport Hull Info => CCP Models => Topic started by: cawfl on December 05, 2012, 09:11:04 AM
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Hello everyone. I am very serious about purchasing a mid 80's center console, which I am going to look at this weekend. The price I feel is very, very reasonable however the boat has been sitting for a couple years. The engine was completely rebuilt about 4 years ago by a very reputable shop here in Melbourne. The owner says that last time it was taken out last season the boat would idle fine and run fine with minimal throttle however would die out when trying to plane. I have had two boats in the past and in my experience this sounds like the carbs needs to be cleaned. I would like to know if I should look out for anything in particular when inspecting this boat such as are the fuel tanks on these prone to water getting in and are there any areas on the floor that show soft spots more then others? I have owned a Sailfish 216 and a Carolina Skiff 17DLX in the past so I am familiar with boats.
Thank you in advance for any info that is provided.
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222 CCP it appears.
Fuel tank is most likely toast unless someone recently replaced it.
I would not be surprised if the deck area in front of the coffin box is soft/spongy.
Tap the transom for indication of rot around the lifting rings, trim tabs or any penetration really (drain plug is worst place).
Cant tell from the pics but look for cracking on the top areas of the transom where it meets the cap. Yet another area for water to enter/wood to rot.
Check transom flex
Good luck.
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She is a 200 CCP. The giveaway is the splashwell area and transom. The 222 has a wider notched transom for the option of twins, where the 200 CCP only has room for a single.
Check for all things that Capt. Bob mentioned above.
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Thank you for your responses. I plan to check various areas around the hull for soft spots as well and under the coffin box. I am not certain about the gas tank but will find out on Sat when I look at it. They are only asking $1,000 for it however my concern is the fuel tank and any fiberglass repairs. I guess I could use an external fuel tank as I will only being using the boat for cruising in the Inter coastal and island hopping.
Thanks again
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She is a 200 CCP. The giveaway is the splashwell area and transom. The 222 has a wider notched transom for the option of twins, where the 200 CCP only has room for a single.
That's you JD. :thumleft:
Here's a link for some specs on that model
http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery ... -p&cat=573 (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=2855&title=as-factory-to-dealer-p&cat=573)
There is a number of tank replacements for these models (CCP) on this site. Search feature is your friend.
Not extremely hard. Tank costs are around $10 per gal. on new. Hoses, and cover repairs (if needed). Rest is sweat equity.
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You want to check all areas of the deck for soft spots as well as the mounts/hardware for the console and T-top and anything else attached to the hull or deck. Check the rubrail rail for impact damage.
When you open the pie plate for the fuel tank,you can see if it's been replaced or not and if you can smell gas,it's leaking. The 200 is a V-6 2 stroke, on a good day,1.5-2 mpg....you want to pull all the plugs and look inside the cyclinders with a flashlight for carbon and damage. Alot of times, you'll see metal deposits on the plugs from overheating...compression should be even,within 10% of each other...If it's dying out under load,it's either ignition or carbs need re-build . Splashing any used boat,before making an offer is important. Things such as overheating due to corrosion,lack of maintainance,damaged lower unit from hitting things ,etc show up. Be sure and get down and check the keel for damage,lots of people like to run aground or hit rocks.... The trailer needs to be looked at also as they are frequently neglected,rusted springs,hardware,dry rotted tires,etc. Fergusons on 192 has a good rep for trailer repairs/parts.
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They are only asking a grand for it? I assume that is without a trailer? If it includes a trailer you can't go wrong... well I don't think you can go wrong even if it does not come with a trailer. That motor looks like a mid to late 90's model.. Good strong motor but as mentioned she will drink some fuel. The carbs are super easy to clean on those things. I'd at least do a compression test on her... and of course check the hull for the usual wood rot etc... The fuel tank should have a plate on it with the date etc. Should be visible under a pie plate. If it is the origianl fuel tank it could be OK but plan on one in the near future. If it has been sitting I'm sure you have some NASTY fuel in there.
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They are only asking a grand for it? I assume that is without a trailer? If it includes a trailer you can't go wrong... well I don't think you can go wrong even if it does not come with a trailer. That motor looks like a mid to late 90's model.. Good strong motor but as mentioned she will drink some fuel. The carbs are super easy to clean on those things. I'd at least do a compression test on her... and of course check the hull for the usual wood rot etc... The fuel tank should have a plate on it with the date etc. Should be visible under a pie plate. If it is the origianl fuel tank it could be OK but plan on one in the near future. If it has been sitting I'm sure you have some NASTY fuel in there.
Agree with wingtime. Take away the trailer and motor and you still have a great deal if she is solid. T-top and electronics box worth that alone :thumleft:
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Yes the price is with the trailer and any electronics that comes with it. I am hoping to get lucky with the gas tank since the engine was rebuilt a few years ago and maybe the fuel lines were replaced at that time. The trailer will definitely need to be rebuilt which I can handle once I get the boat in the water. I have had 2 Yamaha outboards and am not familiar with Johnson's so I will have to do some research on it. I believe the motor is a lte 90's.
Thanks again everyone for your feedback.
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Well lets put it this way.... If you decide to pass on it... let me know :lol:
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Well lets put it this way.... If you decide to pass on it... let me know :lol:
Pretty much...
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In picture #5,it appears to have the upgraded blue/gray fuel line....the problem with the aluminum tanks was electrolysis and they leaked thru the small holes.
For 1K, as others have stated,if the hull is solid, it's a deal......if you have to replace tank,stringers,deck,transom, than maybe not so much.
The Johnson line was discontinued by BRP in 2005, BRP produces the E-Tec under the Evinrude name.
The OMC motors are similar to the 2 stroke Yamaha's.....OMC TCW 3= Yamalube.....2+4 fuel conditioner=Ringfree.
You always want to run ethanol free fuel, use top grade oil and additive, keep the fuel filters changed, change the water pump impellor and thermostats and service the lower unit every year and flush the motor after each use,don't forget to wash the salt off the Trim and tilt unit and grease all the fittings I always sprayed the powerhead and all electrical connections with Boshield T9. As with all things Marine, a little preventative maintainance goes a long way. Boathouse has everything you need.
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You can quickly check the condition of the fuel and tank. Take hose off engine and use the ball to pump some gas into a clear jar. See if there's water / sediment in there. Like it's been said, tank is probably donezo. 1K is a steal but you might have to spend a lot to get the engine running if its been operating with contaminated fuel for some time. But then again doesn't sound like it's been operating much at all. Given that, I'd say the transom / floor condition is the key factor. Personally I wouldn't want to mess with replacing either, I'd rather just get a boat in better shape, but many people here would disagree : )
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I would just figure a new tank in your budget. Worse case even if you have to spend several thousand you will still be ahead of the game.
Also, I think the deck condition will largely depend on whether the deck hatch was ever installed in front of the coffin box. If the hatch was never installed, my bet is the deck will be fine. The deck hatch was sealed poorly and that is usually why the decks on the CCP'S started going south. My 200 CCP did not have the deck hatch and my deck was solid as a rock.
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Thanks again everyone for your feedback, I really appreciate it. I plan to do as thorough inspection as I can with all of the information you provided. I really hope this works out. The owner has owned the boat for many years and took really good care of it from what he says. He moved away shortly after the engine was rebuilt a few years ago and it has had minimal useage since.
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I went and looked at the boat yesterday and I can definitely tell it has been sitting since 2009. The engine turned over a few times and then started. Alot of white smoke came out of it but after it warmed up the idle smoothed out and the smoke went away for the most part. The steering is frozen and so is the trim. I took the cover off directly above the fuel tank it looks to me like it is the original take, I could smell a hint of fuel but it wasnt an overwhelming smell. I dont have a problem with using an external tank so I'm not too concerned with that. The axles on the trailer looked good however the springs were corroded. The bow eye ring was pulling out however when I looked in the compartment directly behind the ring I could see where it has been reinforced with metal and is solid. I moved the engine up and down and the transom is solid, I also took the handle of a screwdriver and tapped around the engine mounts and any other mounts/openings on the boat and they all sounded hollow. The floor directly in front of the console was sloped down a little bit and when i stood on it it did flex somewhat. Some of the screws were missing out of the console so maybe that is why since there was nothing to hold the floor up right there. I am going to have the mechanic that rebuilt the engine look at it for an inspection. The owner is open to offers so depending on what the mechanic says I might make one. Here are some pics I took:
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Overall it doesn't look too bad - nothing a leaf blower, some bleach and elbow grease won't take care of. Of course the upholstery will need to be replaced but that's normal. The soft spot in front of the console seems to be common for a CCP (lack of support underneath I think) - I'm sure the CCPers will be around to tell you about that soon.
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Doesn't look bad. As I said earlier, the t-top and electronics box are worth what he is asking alone.
Let's discuss the deck. Where the coffin box sits the deck is hollow underneath. There is no foam to support the deck. It may "flex" a little. There should be a pie plate under the coffin box. If you remove it, you should be able to see down to the keel. That pie plate was also a source of water intrusion because it was poorly sealed. Move the coffin to one side or the other and test that area of the deck very well. You should only have a "minor" flex but should not "slope down" as you stated. I do see that it has the deck hatch in front of the coffin box. How is that area??? That is usually where the deck problems originated from.
As far as the tank goes, since you smell gas just assume it's toast and figure that in when you make an offer.
She will need work pending that the deck and transom are ok. It really depends on how much of a project you are willing to get into. If you are ok with that, I still think 1k is a great deal :thumright:
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When you said that the deck was "sloped down" in front of the console, did you mean as if you were standing at the console? Looking at the pictures, I assume that is what you meant. If so, that is the hatch to the fuel tank. It most likely will need to be re-cored which is normal.
Still check the other areas of the deck which I posted above.
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Sorry I meant behind the console where you stand. I was not able to remove the coffin box because I didn't have a screwdrive that was big enough. I'm going to go back and remove it and see what it looks like underneath. I am ok with having to do some work to it as I am just looking for something my daughter and I can use to island hop with. I just need something to get us there and back, which is why I'm ok with an external fuel tank. The wiring I wasn't able to test either but I was assuming it needed to be rewired anyways along with new switches. I just need to find out how much it will be for a new trim motor and also replace the steering able. I'm assuming the bildge pump needs to be replaced also but I couldnt find it.
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I had my mechanic check the boat out today and 3 cylinders have 120psi, 2 cylinders are at 100psi and 1 cylinder is at 80psi. He does not know what the issue is on the lower psi cylinders until the heads are removed and he can look at the pistons. It sounds to me like the powerhead my need to be rebuilt but I wont know for sure until he digs deeper. I still feel like the boat is a good deal even with the engine issues. If it does need to be rebuilt at least I know what I have. I checked the floor and there are no soft spots and I did remove the coffin box to look inside the pie plate underneath. The original stringer is still in there and I could smell fuel. There is a hatch right above the fuel tank so I am assuming replacing it will be fairly straight forward. I would also like to rewire it as well.
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Squirt some marvel mystery oil in the cylinders and crank the motor over a couple of times without starting it. Let it sit far a day or two then check the compression again. The rings could be stuck from sitting. Also the carbs coukd be dirty so you may have some lean cylinders.
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That's a good idea, I'll try that once I get it home. Thanks for the suggestion.
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Hell of a location to mount the trim tab pump! :x :x
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One of the trim tabs is missing so I plan on removing the other one along with the pump.
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One of the trim tabs is missing so I plan on removing the other one along with the pump.
If I were you, caw, I'd get a new tab and just re-furb everything. Tabs are wonderful to have!!!
Check your PMs...
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I ended up picking her up and have her resting on the side of my house as I type. I was nervous trailering her home since she hasn't been on the road for 4 years but I only had to go a few miles on back roads. Two of the cross beams on the trailer need to be replaced so I am considering buying a newer (used) trailer. I plan to start with the engine issues first which is the trim not working, steering frozen and lower compression on one of the cylinders. After that I am going to take the console out and replace the gas tank along with reinforcing the access hatch for the gas tank. Not sure about wiring yet but I know it was rewired about 5 years ago.
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Congrats on the new family member :salut:
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You are no longer "potential"....You are a card-carrying member of CA!
Congratulations and welcome :cheers:
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Double post....again, welcome aboard.
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Thank you I appreciate it! I could not pass this deal up and am excited to get to work!
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Congrats!I'm local,so holler If you need help! :cheers:
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Congrats :thumleft: You will love the ride of the CCP :!:
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Welcome to the club!!!!!! :bounce:
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Welcome aboard Caw! :salut:
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Thank you everyone. I am already feeling a part of this community! I picked up a newer trailer for it today and dropped it off to have it switched over and then after that I will be dropping it off at a mechanic for the engine issues.
I am planning on tackling the fuel tank myself and wanted to know if anyone has already swapped theirs out. I would like to know which tank to get as a replacement.
Thanks in advance.
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This one is on the house: Fuel tank replacement:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2597 (http://www.classicaquasport.com/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2597)
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Welcome aboard Caw, as you already know, you found the best boating site. I am always amazed what some do to their botas(hell, any equipment for that matter) But it allows us with some vision to get some deals I guess.
I love that T-Top and box, I think you did well
Just my sunday rambling
Rob
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Hello everyone it's been awhile since I have been on. I got the boat put on a newer galvanized trailer with new hardware etc. I also got the engine issues sorted out. The low compression in the one cylinder came up when fresh oil was run through it and it also needed a few misc parts while the mechanic was in there. The t-top and console have been raised up to expose the fuel tank and it is in really bad condition. The guy doing the work has a 45 gallon tank that will fit so I am going to use that. The fuel tank coffin is still solid but just needs to cleaned up. I wanted to know if there is anything else I should consider having him replace or improve while replacing the fuel tank? I already plan on a new sending unit, fuel and filler lines. I am also having him reinforce the bottom of the hatch with new wood and heavier glass along with filling in the screw holes with new glass so the screws can be tightened again.
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The guy doing the work has a 45 gallon tank that will fit so I am going to use that. The fuel tank coffin is still solid but just needs to cleaned up. I wanted to know if there is anything else I should consider having him replace or improve while replacing the fuel tank? I already plan on a new sending unit, fuel and filler lines. I am also having him reinforce the bottom of the hatch with new wood and heavier glass along with filling in the screw holes with new glass so the screws can be tightened again.
Glad to see you back Caw. :salut:
While I'm a strong proponent for downsizing to help control operational costs, your OEM tank is only slightly smaller (about 12gals +/-) than a 222 CCP (73 versus 85).
That 200 Johnnyrude likes fuel but knowing what and how you use your boat is the big deal here. 40 gals. doesn't leave you much room for error if you try and "explore".
For example, I'm very confident in my fuel burn numbers that running a 55 gal. tank (to the chagrin of members :mrgreen: ) is perfect for me. I have my spots on routes that I hit and burning 35 gals still gives me a 20 gal. safety margin. I'm running a 91 200 Yamaha on a 21' WAC that gets very similar mpg as your 200. Still your CCP is lighter and if you keep your hand out of the throttle, you should see even better burn rates.
Knowing 222 CCPs and fishing like I do now, a 55 gal. would be fine in my old 84. You would be looking at about $700-$800 bucks to replace your OEM tank so....
Have a come to Jesus meeting with yourself and see if what you really want to use your baby for will be supported by a 40 gal. tank. :scratch:
Good luck and keep posting your tank install pics. :thumleft:
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Thank you for the feedback. I am going to use her as an island hopper. I'll load my family in it and head to an island to spend the day. I don't plan on going offshore and if I ever did it would be out of the inlet and fish the beach and staying very close to shore. I forgot to mention that I am also going to get new plastic hatches and trim made to replace the wood and new cushions also. I hope to have her in the water within the next few weeks. I ended up only paying $500 for her so I have no problem spending money on her to get her sea worthy.
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The new tank is in and it set down in the coffin perfectly. It is being strapped and foamed in today and new lines run. Does anyone know if it is possible to replace the fill line all the way up to the gas cap or is it hard to get to?
(http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/9108/tankkv.jpg)
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She is coming along, so far there are Teleflex Lido gauges, a stainless bow rail, two batteries with switch, all of the old teak has been replaced with starboard, new bilge pump and wiring sorted out. Hopefully she will be finished this week and will get a good detailing after.
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Nice progress! :cheers: Keep it up. Summer's already here.
Gotta ask, regardless of condition, what are your plans with the teak you removed?
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I will have to ask the guy that is doing the work what he did with the pieces. The boat had been sitting for 4 years so nothing was complete with the teak. It was all completely rotted and split.
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She's finally done and there are just a few cosmetic things that I need to finish up on my own. After all is said and done I am very happy with the finished product. I ended up replacing the fuel tank and lines above and below deck with ethanol resistant lines, new gauges, new steering cables and helm, new cushions, hatch above fuel tank reinforced and solid as a rock, new cushions for the coffin box and leaning post, trim tabs removed and wooden swim ladder with holes filled and smoothed over, floor painted, throttle cable with new throttle assembly, all teak removed and replaced with starboard, double stripes removed from the hull and replaced with a single stripe, newer logo as well and bow rail added. It took almost 3 days to buff and polish the inside and outside of the boat back to a shine. I had an additional battery installed with switch as well and there were was some rewiring that needed to be done and now everything works. I am sure I'm forgetting a couple of other things but this is where I am at now.
My 1st water test I did not get the boat off the trailer because it would not stay running. The mechanic came over and turns out there was about 3 gallons of water in the gas tank. We had so much rain that I guess some got in the tank in between installations stages. My 2nd water test I got her out on the water and ran her for about 10 minutes until she died again, I was able to idle back to the ramp and drain the carbs and also installed a Raycor filter. I went to take her back out again and ended up spinning the prop on the way out so I gave up. Now she has a new prop with interchangeable hub. I'm hopeful all of the water is out and am going to try again tomorrow. On the way to my 1st water test I lost a wheel on the trailer due to a failed hub so now the trailer has new hearings and seals all the way around.
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Looking Good!!! :salut:
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Really nice overhaul! Sounds like a typical first trial run, keep the faith!!!! :salut: