When to paint, when to re-gelcoat questions ( 170 )

[Fishhyren11]

So, as you might already know I'm pretty new to all the boating fun.  Grew up with a boat, but it was neglected, and I don't want to do the same.

I have a 85' 170 that is in good condition, no real spider cracks on the hull- there was some gouges on the bottom that i've filled in from the last owner, but overall the hull looks great.
It has a fair bit of oxidation being 23yrs old.

We'd like to give it some new color, perhaps color, perhaps white, but not the dingy cream it has become.
At this point do I re-gelcoat the hull or do I just paint it?
If I paint it, what type of paint? I don't leave it in the water so I'd probably only paint to around the waterline.

If I paint, do I finish with some sort of top coat?


Next question is the deck.  The last owner left a lot of holes unfilled from putting in a t-top and then removing it (~20 holes in the deck)

I have since dried them out, injected CPES (only found one spot with a little rot), and then filled in with epoxy.
There are a few places near the bow lockers where the ledge is that have spider cracks in the gelcoat.
What do I do with these? Do I also paint the top deck? Do I use something like Rino Trax?

Any and all suggestions and help are greatly appreciated!!

[Marcq]

Hi, I'm by far not an expert at this but if I were you I would paint it with Imron paint, gelcoating is a pain in the neck. If you do use Imron, take precaution because it's nasty stuff health wise

About the spider cracks, again I'm no expert at this, but if I were you, I would sand them down until you see no more cracks, replace what you have sanded down with two part epoxy (if you do decide to paint)

I'm sure someone else will shim in

Marc..

[LilRichard]

I would definitely go the paint route.  You'll need to prime it with something like 545, then topcoat with either Imron or Awlgrip.

[Fishhyren11]

I would definitely go the paint route.  You'll need to prime it with something like 545, then topcoat with either Imron or Awlgrip.

Before priming, do I need to sand?
Can I roll these types of paint on or do they need to be sprayed on?

Thanks LilRichard and Marcq for replying!
Again, this is new to me and all your opinions/advice is appreciated!

[Marcq]

Yes you need to sand, prep work is the difference between a good job or bad

Roll and tip method of painting
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTVVjzbA72U

http://hubpages.com/hub/Roll-and-Tip-Method-of-Painting

Something that could be useful

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0ta2hou ... re=related


Marc..

[LilRichard]

Marcq is corrcet - you need to sand first - but there is a "pre-paint ritual" including sanding the surface, washing the surface, degrease the surface, tack rag the surface, then paint.  You'll need to use different grits pre/post primer, and that depends on hand sanding vs. DA.

Your best bet is to go the Awlgrip page and do some reading - this is not a hard process, but you need to follow the required steps to get a good result.  We can answer any followup questions you have.

 8)

[slippery73]

I'd have to disagree with the paint method on your boat, regelcoating your boat is by far easier, cheaper and more forgiving for the do it yourselfer. I think it turns out better in the end as well, less problems later on, etc. There aren't many paint jobs Ive seen on rebuilt boats that look as good as gelcoat does in my opinion, it tends to orange peel easily, run, etc. Its usually very easy to spot a painted boat, unless enormous amount of time and prep is done to the boat it tends to look crappy, Gause boats are about the only boats I have seen that actually finish out beautifully with the paint. But the amount of time they put into getting it that way would run $7-10k for you to have someone paint your boat to that quality. Compare that to regelcoating, 3 gallons of white unwaxed gelcoat for $150, 3 gallons of duratec clear, and a hvlp spray gun with a 2.0-2.2 tip and your good. You mix the duratec and gelcoat 50/50, catalyze with 2% MEKP and spray. You just need to sand your gelcoat you've got now, I like to go almost to bare glass with the DA, when you start seeing the gelcoat get thin your good. Clean your surfaces well, TSP, acetone, etc. Spray gel to 26-30mils and thats it. The duratec is a high gloss additive that makes the gelcoat cure without the need for wax or pva when outside a mold, also adds uv stabililty, hardness, longer lifespan, etc. It also thins the gelcoat into an easier to spray consistency that reduces orange peel and the need to wetsand and buff afterwords. But say you do mess up have some runs here and there, its easily wet sanded and buffed unlike some of the paints out there where you have to sand and respray your hull if you mess up.

I've heard the argument that paints the greatest, the most expensive boats on the world have it, airplanes use it, blah blah blah. But I know one thing about all the uses of it, its not used on many fishing boats that get pulled up on the beach, or get scraped across an oyster bar, or bump the barnacled up piling at hooters. Cause as soon as that happens is when I've seen the paint have problems, seems like some people have great luck with it and I've seen 80k dollar boats with boils all over them. For my money I'd go with what had lasted on my boat for 34+ years. Gelcoat might not be the most high tech product out but for longevity, ease of repair, maintenance you cant go wrong. Wax the thing once a year and it will be good for a long time.

[LilRichard]

I would go over to the classicmako page and take a look at the dozens upon dozens of boats redone with paint that all look very good.  

To answer a few points mentioned:

If you use Imron you can sand/buff/polish to your heart's content.  The only reason you might choose Awlgrip is if you roll it.

Gelcoat is not a perfect product either - it is porous, stains, and is not as easy to apply as one might believe.  

I do not understand why you would need to put less prep work into a gelcoated boat?  Crappy bodywork is crappy bodywork.

Ask Shine about rolling and tipping - does not get much easier - and the end product is very nice.  Not saying gelcoat is a bad way to go, but I am not going to come on here and say painting is the only option and all gelcoated boats look crappy either.

[wattever]

I might would try a sand and buff first believe it or not the existing gelcoat is very thick in most cases so if you take a varible speed sander turn the rpms down real low and use 1000 grit paper apply very little presure with the sander to a small test area say a 12" sq ( dry sand not wet) should only need about 30 to 45 seconds.Then take a buffer with a good 1000 plus grit buffing compound and buff it out you should see a remarkable change. See how you like it you may just save yourself a lot of trouble with gelcoating or painting. You will need to keep a good coat of wax on her to keep her shine. Can't loose anything by trying it cause you will have to sand no matter what you decide. I learned this from the guy who regelcoated my 85 250ccp I would have saved myself a lot of time and money had I talked to him before I sanded most of my original gelcoat off preparing for a new gelcoat. Even with most of the gelcoat gone he showed me how easy it was to bring that new gelcoat look back.

Hope this works for you good luck!

[slippery73]

The one reason gelcoat does not need to be perfectly faired is because of its thickness, whereas paints will be applied around 10 mils max thickness with primer etc. Gelcoats need to be apllied much thicker, 26-30 mils or thicker depending on how much you wetsand off after being sprayed. You could spray 30+ mils and really wetsand your hull good then buff it out and it will be smooth as can be and would shine like no tomoroow. Looks much nicer than a factory gelcoated boat, just like a custom car paint job. If you wonder how they get those street rods so deep and shiny its from wetsanding and buffing. The boat paint isn't thick enough to allow much removal with sanding and it doesn't act like a fairing compound like gelcoat does. Best way for me to compare it since im in the construction industry is comparing an old 3/4" wood floor to a new pergo or laminate flooring. The wood you can sand and refinish many times over, it might be a pain in the butt sometimes, but you can and do get a new floor everytime you do. Whereas the laminate floor although good in some applications can never be refinished, hard to repair, etc. I guess im more of a purist as I would never put fake wood on my floor, just like I would never paint my fishing boat. The technology is there and hey thats great, but in my mind the ability to easily wetsand and buff to make it shine like new are great. Some may say its more work but its not more work than completely repainting a hull side.

[fabuck71]

I did the roll and tip with Easypoxy thinned down and it was easy as heck and looks like out of the factory.

LiL Richard and Slippery need to stop this pissing match you all get going on every post, jeez what a buzz-kill  :x !  I know you both mean well, but come on.

[slippery73]

Not a pissing match, simply different views on some things. We are all here to learn and if everyone agrees and cant add their own input from real world experience than this wouldn't be the great forum that it is. I appreciate all comments and rebuttals to my posts, if I didn't I wouldn't post. If anyone else has any experience regelcoating than please speak up, I know I cant be the only one. Everything I've done with it so far has turned out great,  very glossy and smooth once shot, doesn't run easily, sands out nicely, etc. Just figured I'd add my two cents on the subject since there are  options other than paint. Regelcoating is not as hard as it may have once been with the additives they have on the market now. I wouldn't consider regelcoating without the duratec additive, with it the gel sprays like paint.

[LilRichard]

Actually that is a very fair assessment.  The difference is, there are not many people posting here and not as many "views" so he and I just end up debating topics because we're some of the only folks here (maybe a dozen of us) far into rebuilding right now.  But quite honestly, this guy just got two views on why to paint or gelcoat both of which were supported by objective viewpoints.

And besides, it can't be a "pissing match" when my way is better.

 

[fabuck71]

Now that was funny.  I see both sides of the stories.

[slippery73]

My pissing match broke my computer....

But in all actuality, either paint or gel will make your boat look better than it is. As I said I've seen good results and bad with the paint, same can be said with gelcoat. It's really personal preference. It really doesn't matter to us either, its your boat. We're just here for suggestions from our experiences.