Classic AquaSport
Aquasport Model Rebuilds, Mods, Updates and Refreshes => Osprey Style Hull Rebuilds => Flatback 22-2 Rebuilds => Topic started by: Jasona12380 on November 05, 2022, 04:30:21 PM
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Finally made some progress with my 69 FB over the last few weeks. I haven't posted since my introduction in lurking. I want to formerly apologize for the amount of questions/advise that are coming while doing my first rebuild. I've got as far as removing all hardware of the gunnels, freed up console, and aluminum fuel tank. This week a few buddy's will help me remove console and tank. My plan is to close transom in first. I am anxious to see how the stringers/foam look after removing a few feet off nearest the transom. My guess is there will be some water underneath due to age and knowing the anchor compartment on the casting deck was taking in water from the broken drain tube that empty's under the hull. Is there any chance that it may be clean enough under the deck that I wouldn't have to cut out the remaining deck? I ask because the deck is really solid and would hate to add more work and $$ if I don't have to. I plan on closing transom, adding, bracket(swimming platform), and 175 Merc 4 stroke(on order). From what I read, I will likely need to raise the floor after adding the weight from transom and 4 stroke to the rear. This boat has never been left overnight on a dock but will sit on a slip when its back in the water. Hoping for some advise whether to cut the entire deck out after closing in the transom or is it possible to leave as is?
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Welcome back.
The inside of the boat looks great. The drain tube in the anchor bay - did it drain outside the hull or into the bilge. The boat was designed to be self-bailing, no access to the bilge and all water kept above the deck - any water ran aft, collected in the trough at the rear and ran out the drain holes. The boat didn't come with a bilge pump. Is your goal to keep the boat self-bailing? I think you'll have to rethink how to evac the water that will accumulate in the aft after you close in the transom and add a bracket. Hopefully you'll add a bracket that includes flotation. That will help offset the weight of the engine and the distance it is offset from the transom. You'll have to raise the bracket on the transom an inch or two to help raise the engine because of its offset off the transom - usually each foot offset requires raising the engine an inch.
Are you going to keep the fuel tank above the floor inside the console? Usually, weight is moved forward to offset the added weight of a 4S motor. Looks like the batteries are up front already, so there isn't much more to move forward. If you try to move the console/tank forward, you'll have to also move the ledger that the console sits on - more holes in the floor. Looks like you can only move it forward about 10" anyway, which will help.
Also, use the gallery we provide for you, to upload your pics. Follow the instructions here http://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=12725.0 - don't attach them - you are limited by file size. Uploading them into your "member gallery" is better for viewing.
Spend a few minutes to absorb the instructions. It's really easy. Remember if using a phone to take pics, to hold the phone horizontal with the lens to the left.
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Thanks RickK. The drain tube from the anchor bay to outer hull was cracked during the last season this boat was used. Looks like some water flowed in from the hull when there was weight on the casting deck. It was damp in the right side compartment under the casting deck. Looks like its plywood inside that compartment. I'm anxious to see what it looks like under the deck this week when I start cutting the rear floor in prep of closing in the transom. (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/2226.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=22975&title=oct22-progress&cat=500) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/22211.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=22966&title=oct22-progress&cat=500) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/22221.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=22967&title=oct22-progress&cat=500) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/2223.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=22968&title=oct22-progress&cat=500)
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Welcome to the forum and congrats on a great project boat to start with! She looks to be unmolested and in good shape for her age. I have a 1970' that I will eventually get into when I finish a few other projects. Like yours mine has a solid main deck with the exception of around the forward bait well in the main deck. I think exploration could be done after cutting back 18 or so inches in from the transom to see if the foam inside the stringers is wet. However, considering your planning on putting 175hp on there, and will likely see decent seas up there, you might want to do as much exploration as you can to the stringer tabbing because its common for these hulls to have tabbing that is snapped off from age and use. Wet foam, pounding on the hull bottom is disaster for stringer tabbing failure which will ultimately results in hull bottom cracks. I am not trying to scare you but I have seen a number of these hulls that have crack hull bottoms with stringers that look to be original. However, a lot of this is adding much more to the hull in the way of weight by leaning post live wells, transom live wells, towers, larger fuel tanks, etc.
Looking forwards to seeing the progress and thanks for learning how to post pics as it make it much easier to see things and understand so we can help. :)
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Thanks Ulysses. I met with a Sea Craft restorer today. He a good friend with one of my good friends here on Cape Cod where my boat and my business is located. I saw him on the water with his 24 Sea Craft a few months back after having let go of a 1000lb tuna because commercial was closed. I won't forget that day, lol and definitely loved his Sea Craft. He came by today to check out the project and is willing to help me along the way. He looked at the floor and feels it's a little soft on one side of the console/baitwell. He also noticed stress cracks on the gunnels and assuming the stringers are delaminated in some areas like you mentioned. We agreed there is no better time to address this than now. Next Monday he's going to come by and mark exactly where to cut into my floor to see how it looks. I will post some pics after getting underneath.
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You can inject epoxy into the delaminated flooring. Aquasport has used end-grain balsa squares to make the flooring sheets forever.
There are examples of our members doing this. It's easy and forever. Search for it.
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Slow on progress here but did get under the deck. Looks better than I thought but noticed water in the foam when cutting the outside of stringers and while peeling back some of the foam. I plan to cut the whole floor out, replace foam, and floor with coosa board. Please let me know if I am thinking right. (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/691.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23002&title=under-the-deck&cat=500)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/695.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23006&title=under-the-deck&cat=500)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/694.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23005&title=under-the-deck&cat=500)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/693.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23004&title=under-the-deck&cat=500)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/692.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23003&title=under-the-deck&cat=500)
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Sounds like a good plan.
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I’m really interested in the makeup of the coring that’s in the main deck. Can you share some detailed edge photos of the deck. I’m in the thought process of removing the liner and decks/casting platform but there are a couple thoughts that I want to check off. Better yet, if you don’t mind it might be easier to send photos or even videos via cell? I’ll send you a PM.
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Wow nice find. I am really jealous of your indoor working space, looks climate controlled too. I was told from this forum when I did my restore to fix the floor or the transom one at a time like you have so far. If you tear up both at the same time the hull could oil can and lose it’s shape. If that is your plan than you have to add a lot of supports from gunwale to gunwale. I thought this was great advice because it saved me all the work of adding all those supports and worry about screwing up the shape of the hull. Maybe you already know this? Turning into my Dad now in my older age where I can’t help not telling you. He was affectionately known as “Mr. Safety” :nSalute: :nSalute:
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Thanks Fish Head that is exactly my plan. I started taking off the rear of the gunnel cap and entire rub rail. The transom must of had a previous repair. The gunnel cap has been glassed in. I will cut off the rear gunnel cap and leave floor and gunnel cap while working on the transom. Then move onto the floor after transom is replaced. Hopefully I will not see any bowing with the hull. I might even work on one stringer at a time to help preventing any flexing in the hull.
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You should make a detailed drawing of the interior of your hull. Starting at the transom and working forward, document the width of the hull, top and bottom every 2 ft. Indicate how far the console was originally installed. How far the casting deck is from the transom.
Next add the decking into the drawing. I laid a 1x2 across the top of the gunwale and measured from the bottom of 1x2 to the top of the deck every 2 ft.
You want to indicate where the stringers are installed (always measure from the same side of the hull) - detail the inside and outside of each stringer, top and bottom.
If you pop the cap off the boat make sure to screw a 1x2 across the gunwale to keep the shape of the hull.
This drawing will become very valuable to you as you progress through the rebuild. Measuring the tops of the stringers to the 1x2 allows you to see how much depth the original boat had vs what you're thinking of raising the deck height to, and also how the designer drained water off the deck.
I also marked any attachment reinforcements I added to the floor, for like leaning post, etc.
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Just like Rick says, Perfect Advice! You will be thankful you have those original dimensions. I was for sure.
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Thanks RickK for reminder to diagram the deck and stringers. Should have the last layer of the balsa and rear liner section out tonight. Grind coming.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/transom19.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23170&title=transom19&cat=500)
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Hi guys, please help with some advise. How much grinding is necessary in preparation to install Coosa transom? I'm down pretty good into the side hull but I can see filler and some wood remanence where the balsa transom was. The original filler looks spotty and empty areas can be seen on the starboard side. I can see remanence of the original tabbing on the side hull. My concern is making sure I don't grind the walls too thin. Before I go any further I wanted to ask everyone opinion on continuing to grind all filler/plywood/original tabbing away.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/floor.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23204&title=grinding-transom&cat=500)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/floor.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23204&title=grinding-transom&cat=500)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/portside2.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23206&title=grinding-transom&cat=500)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/starboardside.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23207&title=grinding-transom&cat=500)
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Since your asking I would grind until you definitely get to decent glass for best bond. If you get a little to thin with wall thickness I would not hesitate to layup a layer or 2 of 1708 to glass before you install coosa.
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I second Fish Heads comments. After grinding, the first thing to do is cut a 12" piece of PVC and glue it (thickened resin) onto the bottom and to/through the original drain hole. Here is a link to where I explain the thought of the PVC pipe
http://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=13148.msg133124#msg133124
Here is a link to where I show what is actual problem
http://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=13148.msg133556#msg133556
Here is a link to Hawgleg's rebuild that shows the PVC pipe installation to keep a drain at the new low point of the boat
http://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=13148.msg134262#msg134262
Next is to mix thickened resin and lay in fillets to round out the corners and sides of the transom. Next start lay up of at least 2 maybe 3 layers of 1708 to build up the transom thickness. let it harden and then lightly grind the new glass layer. Now you have a good foundation for the transom core.
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Time to put in an order for transom material. Coosa is sold in the town I work in Hyannis Ma, I plan to buy a sheet of 1.5 inch Coosa once the epoxy arrives. I am a little unsure on the material needed and amounts to purchase. Below is a list of material I plan to purchase based on research from everyone on the forum and what was recommended from a friend who works at Metan Marine. I don't mind buying extra knowing that I will use extra material left over from transom for stringers/coffin box/floor overhaul. Please share any advise on material and quantities. I am very new to fiberglass. Limited to surf board repairs only. Any recommendations are very much welcomed.
West Systems 105 Epoxy Resin 4.35 gallons
West Systems 207 Special Clear Hardener 42 oz
West Systems 209 Extra Slow Hardener 42 oz
West Systems 406 Colloidal Silica Adhesive Filler 5.5 oz
2x 1705 x 50 biaxial
Sheet of Melanine board
2 1x8 rollers
5 mixing pint cans and 5 mixing quart cans
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If you're only working on the transom and surrounding area I think you are ordering too much epoxy - good thing is it doesn't go bad like poly.
I would think you wouldn't need more than a gal for the transom.
As for the 1705 - are those rolls of 50" wide 1705?
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Thanks Rick, I downsized on material. Thanks for your suggestion. Tomorrow night I plan to leaf blow the dust out of my work area and clean. Maybe make my template for the laminate. 1708 is 50 inches wide. I will open them up to make sure I have enough cloth. Plan to get melamine board from local hardware store this weekend. Transom skin is fairly straight but still want to backer with melamine to be sure. I plan on filling the void of the transom skin with 3-4 layers of cloth and epoxy plus 3 full sheet layers of cloth tabbed into the side hull and floor. I will put PVC pipe down before glassing, thank you everyone for that tip.
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Grabbed my melamine board, waxed it and waiting for my co-worker to help me screw into my transom skin. Started cutting out my cardboard template for laminate and realized I need to order more 1708 cloth. I am going to get a 10 yard roll. There appears to be a few different types of 1708 biaxial cloth. Any recommendations on specific 1708 cloth for transom install?
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There is only 2 kinds of 1708 - one with CSM included on one side and one without
https://www.uscomposites.com/specialty.html
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Thanks Rick, I ended up going with 1700 biaxial cloth. Finally got some work in this week. I mixed silica to make peanut butter for the corners, 4 layers in the transom void, then covered the whole transom with three layers tabbed in. Wish my tabbing was 12-8-4 but think it came out good enough. After glass cured I noticed some small air pockets in the layered cloth. They are very minor but trying to decide if I try spot injecting epoxy, grind out and layer more cloth, or continue with coosa install.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/glasstime1.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23433&title=glasstime1&cat=500) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/glasstime2.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23434&title=glasstime2&cat=500) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/itsflat.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23437&title=itsflat&cat=500)
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I think you'll be fine. You're going to be lamming in a core and 3 more lams of 1708 tied into the hull sides. I think your pipe is a bit short though. You'll know when you look into the bilge after you have it tilted back on the trailer.
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Agree with Rick. During some of the grinding I found air pockets that seem to have stayed moisture free. I found the mini paint rollers are a great help with the wet out and removing most of the air pockets. Mini foam rollers are ok but the rounded tip always seems to break off during wet out. Had a few in the garage and decided to use them up. Chip brushes have helped with some of the isolated air pockets and corners by dabbing the pocket with resin during the lay up. Even then when I come back I still find them here and there.
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Hard rollers work best to drive resin in and through cloth
https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61GocWXQDbL.__AC_SX300_SY300_QL70_FMwebp_.jpg (https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61GocWXQDbL.__AC_SX300_SY300_QL70_FMwebp_.jpg)
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After putting this project down for most of the summer I just got back to it. Got my coosa installed and started to start ripping up some of the deck. I didn't see any delamination yet but not too far into it yet. I just fitted 4 layers of cloth last night and plan to glass in early this week. Ran short of filler when doing the core. I am restocked and plan to use plenty in the corners of transom/hull at the same time I tab in the cloth. Great to be back at it!!!
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/coreinstalled.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23601&title=coreinstalled&cat=500)
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Any progress is a good thing :thumleft:
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Finally removing some foam. Started with the side stringer and plan to continue on the other side tonight. Really happy to see how well the stringers held up. The foam was moist likely from the broken hose coming out of the anchor compartment to side hull. It was completely rotted and failed. Whenever there was weight on the casting deck causing the hose to take in water. I need to order foam. Haven't done much research so wanted to ask what density is best for this application and how many gallons should I purchase?
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/sidestringer1.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23641&title=sidestringer1&cat=500)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/sidestringer2.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23642&title=sidestringer2&cat=500)