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Author Topic: 1972 191 Rebuild  (Read 1906 times)

May 25, 2022, 02:10:23 AM
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tylertarpon10

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1972 191 Rebuild
« on: May 25, 2022, 02:10:23 AM »
Hey guys, I just picked up this 1972 Aquasport, I am not sure exactly what size but I think it is a 191 based on the title but the seller told me it was a 19'6. It had a 115 Evinrude which I think was the original motor on it.

I am a 23-year college student about to finish up school and wanted to take on the challenge of this restore to understand and learn everything I can. I am pretty mechanically inclined with my hands and there is no better feeling than knowing every inch of your boat and customizing it to how you want it. I have learned a great deal already from these forums and would like to know more.

I am in the process of removing the foam from the stringers, which I will need to cut the tops off and get all of it out.

I took the motor off and figured the wood core would be rotted out. I will be raising the transom to enclose the cockpit.

All my photos are too large and not too sure how to make my images smaller, will post more pictures once I figure it out!

I will update and keep posting pictures as I progress. any feedback is appreciated!  :thumleft:

May 25, 2022, 02:18:01 AM
Reply #1

tylertarpon10

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Re: 1972 191 Rebuild
« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2022, 02:18:01 AM »
Heres some more photos of some progress I am made.

May 25, 2022, 08:36:58 AM
Reply #2

Ulysses485

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Re: 1972 191 Rebuild
« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2022, 08:36:58 AM »
Nice flatform for a rebuild. That's a 191 for sure. The 19-6 is more well known and there are many more of them out there so they are sometimes mislabeled as such. Not the first time I have seen this happen. The 191 is the little brother to the 222 flatback that was made in the mid to late 60s up to about 1972 where the modified vee (12 degree) hull was designed and became their foundation design through the 70s and 80s. There are a few rebuilds of the 191 on here to look over and the 222 flatback is a very similar design so following those builds can be helpful as well.

The best way to post photos are to upload them from your mobile device using the following below instructions   https://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=12725.0 

Once you have uploaded them I find that it is easier to get on a computer and copy and paste the image codes to your post (as well as edit the ones that are sideways). You will get much better feedback because the viewing experience is MUCH better and the details in the photos are not lost due to shrinking for formatting. Photos go a long way with these rebuilds and most everyone on the site that has been through a rebuild is more than willing to help. However, it makes it hard to help when we cant see what you see, if that makes any sense. 

Wishing you the best with the build and keep us updated
1974' 240 CC - https://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=15975.0
1970’ Flatback 222 - https://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=15666.0
1981’ Osprey 22-2 - https://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=15249.0
1971’ Flatback 222 - SOLD
1972' 240 Seahunter - SOLD

May 25, 2022, 04:07:50 PM
Reply #3

Tampa Bay Mike

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Re: 1972 191 Rebuild
« Reply #3 on: May 25, 2022, 04:07:50 PM »
Nice start. The 191s normally had the console pushed up forward to the front deck and are more rare for sure. What's the plan after demo?

May 25, 2022, 08:13:03 PM
Reply #4

RickK

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Re: 1972 191 Rebuild
« Reply #4 on: May 25, 2022, 08:13:03 PM »
Tyler its easier to post pics if you follow the steps in this topic https://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=12725.0

The 191 was made in either a Gull or an Osprey configuration.  The gull had a larger casting deck and the console was up to and a little on top of the casting deck.  The Osprey model had the console set back about 2 ft back from the casting deck. Hard to tell the difference in the catalogs - we have plenty of rebuild examples in the 191 forum
https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showgallery.php?cat=744
Rick
1971 "170" with 115 Johnson (It's usable but not 100% finished)

1992 230 Explorer with 250 Yamaha

May 25, 2022, 09:52:13 PM
Reply #5

tylertarpon10

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Re: 1972 191 Rebuild
« Reply #5 on: May 25, 2022, 09:52:13 PM »
Thanks for the image help!

I have begun cutting away the top sections of the stringers to get access to the foam.



I noticed that most of my stringers looked to be lifted from the hull from when the foam was put in. I am assuming I will have to cut all the lifted tabs of each stringer like in this photo and then make new fillets and retab all of them back to the hull? OR should I leave them alone as they are? I am leaning on the first option since I plan on refoaming with 4 lb close cell foam in the center and probably do 2lb on the outer stringers.
 



May 30, 2022, 07:58:25 PM
Reply #6

tylertarpon10

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Re: 1972 191 Rebuild
« Reply #6 on: May 30, 2022, 07:58:25 PM »
Almost have all the foam taken out of the stringers. I saw that the port side stringer is detached from the side of the hull. I believe that the previous owner when they cut out the floor cut too deep and cut the stringer as well. There seems to be a small gap between the stringer and the side of the hull. My question is should I fill the stringer with foam then fill the gap with peanut butter then tab it back to the side of the hull OR do I need to ratchet strap the side of the hull/ butt up the side back to the stringer and tab it before I refoam? Or is this stringer no good and needs to be replaced?





My second question is about the transom. Should I cut the inner liner completely all the way to both sides of the hull so that way I can get access to the entire wood core? OR should I Keep what is there and re-tab the bottom section and the new Coosa board core for the enclosed transom.





The next step is to pressure wash all the remainder of dirt and debris, then start sanding the entire inside hull with 36 grit and re-glass everything with at least one layer of 1708 for my peace of mind (primarily the bow).

Thanks for the help and feedback!

May 31, 2022, 09:52:09 AM
Reply #7

dbiscayne

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Re: 1972 191 Rebuild
« Reply #7 on: May 31, 2022, 09:52:09 AM »


There seems to be a small gap between the stringer and the side of the hull. My question is should I fill the stringer with foam then fill the gap with peanut butter then tab it back to the side of the hull OR do I need to ratchet strap the side of the hull/ butt up the side back to the stringer and tab it before I refoam? Or is this stringer no good and needs to be replaced?
My guess is that theres a width of stringer missing that needs to be replaced - I wouldn't ratchet strap the hull to try & move the hull to the stringer unless you're sure the hull is deformed which seems very doubtful.
It's going to be tough to get the liner out of the way so you can clean up the side of the hull to glass the stringer to. I had the same issue, ended up battling all the rubrail & cap screws then cutting the liner vertically just forward of the casting deck & temporarily removing it so I could do this work. You might get away with prying that liner away enough to do the same though.
Another option would be to glass whats left of the outboard stringer to the hull from 'inside' the stringer, it'll still be tough to prep the surface and you'll be working a little upside down but at least you wouldn't have to remove the liner.
Go ahead and get that side rod holder out of the way too.

For glassing the vertical walls of the stringers back to the hull bottom, I used a 4" wide strip of glass on the inside of all the stringers to reinforce the factory bond and it made a big difference in stiffening up the stringers. My stringers were still attached to the hull pretty good from the factory but seemed like it could be better.

May 31, 2022, 09:59:17 AM
Reply #8

dbiscayne

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Re: 1972 191 Rebuild
« Reply #8 on: May 31, 2022, 09:59:17 AM »
My second question is about the transom. Should I cut the inner liner completely all the way to both sides of the hull so that way I can get access to the entire wood core? OR should I Keep what is there and re-tab the bottom section and the new Coosa board core for the enclosed transom.

On mine I removed the inner liner from the transom plus about 8 inches of the side liner and about the same from all the stringers. That'll let you tab the transom core to the hull sides and bottom real nice and get some good clamping pressure on the core to outside skin when setting the coosa. Definitely need to be able to tab the coosa to the hull sides and bottom really well.

May 31, 2022, 07:14:05 PM
Reply #9

RickK

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Re: 1972 191 Rebuild
« Reply #9 on: May 31, 2022, 07:14:05 PM »
I agree with @dbiscayne.
The stringers were prefabricated and set in the hull with bonding putty.
I think the offending stringer is Pic#1? I see that the one side of the stringer is missing and it will be a challenge to replace it - not impossible but work will be involved, Filling the void with foam, regardless of the weight is not structural enough. Inside a formed trapezoid stringer, the foam is structural.
My thought is to make a flat workplace, maybe 4 ft, cover it with cheap painter drop cloth and laminate 2-3 layers of 1708 to make the missing piece of the stringer. Then cut the piece to fit. I would use epoxy to make the piece and use epoxy to attach it to the original after prepping the original, of course. Setting the piece into thickened resin, spoon it off (form fillet) and then tape the piece to all attaching places. Finally foam it it, cap it with glass and install the new floor. I used thickened epoxy to glue the floor to the stringers.
Rick
1971 "170" with 115 Johnson (It's usable but not 100% finished)

1992 230 Explorer with 250 Yamaha

June 01, 2022, 02:15:09 PM
Reply #10

tylertarpon10

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Re: 1972 191 Rebuild
« Reply #10 on: June 01, 2022, 02:15:09 PM »
@dbisayne And @RickK, thanks for the feedback! I have been going back and forth on how I am going to tab the stringer to the hull with the liner in the way. I will attempt it by going from underneath. However, If I can not prep the surface properly then I may end up removing the cap and liner temporarily.

Until then, I plan to remove the rod holders on the sides, cut the inner transom liner and stringers back about 8", and remove the rotten wood core. Sand down everything with 36 grit and prep the surface, fabricate new glass to fill the voids of the missing stringer, create fillets with thicken resin, then tab everything.

Once I have the stringers tabbed to the hull and in place ready for new foam, does the weight matter then? Or should 2lbs suffice for all the stringers.

Thanks for the help, will post more pictures soon of my progress.

June 01, 2022, 02:42:10 PM
Reply #11

dbiscayne

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Re: 1972 191 Rebuild
« Reply #11 on: June 01, 2022, 02:42:10 PM »
I used 4lb foam along the outer stringers, seemed like there was a better chance of the chine getting hit and figured it would help but that was just a guess. Used 2lb in the center stringers which felt pretty close to the original foam. With the extra glass I've added to the stringers I wasn't worried about the foam being a structural part. I will say this, the 4lb foam seems much much stronger than the 2.

June 04, 2022, 03:18:11 AM
Reply #12

tylertarpon10

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Re: 1972 191 Rebuild
« Reply #12 on: June 04, 2022, 03:18:11 AM »
Small update, I cut the inner transom skin, the stringers, and the side liners back. Removed all the rotten wood, and sanded the transom skin entirely with 36 grit.

I still need to sand the hull sides and some more on the base of the hull in the bilge area to prep. I have some chips and cracks on the lip of the transom skin that I need to fill with thickened resin or "peanut butter". Same for all the holes as well, which I will do when I screw a melamine board on the outside of the transom.

On the bottom of the transom skin and the hull, there are spots of hard, rock-like putty by the drain plug and base of the skin that I need to grind away to make nice and flat for the fillets.

I have a list and will be heading to FGCI this weekend to start gathering my supplies. The question I have right now is what my layup and which resin should I use?

I will need to lay 2-3 layers of which I'm thinking 1708 to fill the transom skin void, then add three more layers across the entire transom with 1708 tabbed from 12', 8', 4' (in that order). would Poly resin be suitable or should I use epoxy for this? I have seen a lot of you guys say use epoxy below deck and poly above for Gelcoat reasons, however not sure with the transom.

Thanks for the feedback! I think I will start uploading my time-lapse videos of my build on Youtube eventually.  :great02:








June 04, 2022, 06:00:22 AM
Reply #13

RickK

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Re: 1972 191 Rebuild
« Reply #13 on: June 04, 2022, 06:00:22 AM »
Sounds like you've thought it all through. Epoxy or Poly - hmmm. I used epoxy for the strength and ease of working with it.  No rush usually to get everything laminated because you have long working times with epoxy unlike the short working times that poly brings with it. Which should you use is a personal choice. How are you going to finish the inside of the transom after the initial 3 layers of 1708, the core is added and then the final 3 layers of 1708 are tieing everything to the bottom and hull sides?
The inner transom liner was made from poly. Are you going to re-use that liner or is it all cut up?

Read through these links that explains what happens to the low point in the hull, as you lam up the transom.
Here is a link to where I explain the thought of the PVC pipe
http://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=13148.msg133124#msg133124

Here is a link to where I show what is actual problem
http://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=13148.msg133556#msg133556

Here is a link to Hawgleg's rebuild that shows the PVC pipe installation to keep a drain at the new low point of the boat
http://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=13148.msg134262#msg134262
Rick
1971 "170" with 115 Johnson (It's usable but not 100% finished)

1992 230 Explorer with 250 Yamaha

June 05, 2022, 12:26:50 AM
Reply #14

tylertarpon10

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Re: 1972 191 Rebuild
« Reply #14 on: June 05, 2022, 12:26:50 AM »
May stick with the poly for cost savings. I did use some poly today making peanut butter to fill holes and seems to have a decent amount of time before it got tacky so may go that route. Additionally, I would like to Gelcoat or Awlgrip the transom and deck to finish.

I think I will try and keep the liner to save time and money. I saved the pieces I cut that way I can attach them back later. I will try and figure out a way to lift the liner out of the way until then.

I plan to add a PVC pipe like you listed, I saw it in a different build you mentioned. Very smart, thank you!

 

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