Attention Tab Man

[Whitewater]

Looking for advice on how to trace down the issue with my Bennet Tabs on the 222 Sandpiper.  Nothing at all is happening when switches are depressed in bow down or up direction.  at trace I can say that connections are clean.  I do not see any leaks in the system fluid is to level and clean.

I have owned the boat for just about a year and they have never worked in that time.  Previous owner played dumb and tried to tell me that they were just shock absorbers and never worked in his time owning the boat....... I was born at night, but ......

1)  Could it be that the switches are both shot?  
2)  Is there any way that I can test the pump safely to assure that it is not shot?
3)  switches to pump/ pump to hydro lines / hydro lines to trim tabs....

is there something I am missing with that?

Thank you!

Chris

[Blue Agave]

Your problem appears to be electrical.  Check to see if you are getting power and test the ground.

[seabob4]

Tom will be along shortly, but in the meantime, here's Bennett's TS guide...http://www.bennetttrimtabs.com/pdf/trob ... ooting.pdf

Chris, what I find typically when the tabs, and pump, do absolutely nothing, is there is a bad ground from the pump.  Remove the plastic cover, on the back side of the pump body is where the ground attaches.  Make sure it is tight (3/8" nut), and check for continuity between the ground stud on the pump and a known good ground...

Also keep in mind, every screw on the back side of the switch, even the ones without any leads attached, MUST be tight.  The orange wire coming off the middle bar of the switch is your power.  If the PO used the lead supplied by Bennett, there will be an in-line fuse holder just down stream from the terminal.  Make sure both that the fuse is good, and you have continuity through the fuse holder with the fuse in place...

[Whitewater]

Tom will be along shortly, but in the meantime, here's Bennett's TS guide...http://www.bennetttrimtabs.com/pdf/trob ... ooting.pdf

Chris, what I find typically when the tabs, and pump, do absolutely nothing, is there is a bad ground from the pump.  Remove the plastic cover, on the back side of the pump body is where the ground attaches.  Make sure it is tight (3/8" nut), and check for continuity between the ground stud on the pump and a known good ground...

Also keep in mind, every screw on the back side of the switch, even the ones without any leads attached, MUST be tight.  The orange wire coming off the middle bar of the switch is your power.  If the PO used the lead supplied by Bennett, there will be an in-line fuse holder just down stream from the terminal.  Make sure both that the fuse is good, and you have continuity through the fuse holder with the fuse in place...

This is going to sound rediculous but how do I test for continuity? I barely know what I am doing with electrical aside from cleaning or replacing connections and maybe some basic new install stuff.  I do have a couple of volt meters but do not know what I am doing with them.  I did check the fuse inline and it is solid (not a broken connection).  In the meantime I will go out and check all of the other connections on the back side of the pump body.      What are your beliefs on using dielectric grease?

[seabob4]

Chris,
Read this from my site.  Hopefully it will make you a little more comfortable using a multimeter for checking continuity, checking for voltage, the simple stuff...http://prolineboatguy.freeforums.org/th ... r-t17.html

[Whitewater]

Chris,
Read this from my site.  Hopefully it will make you a little more comfortable using a multimeter for checking continuity, checking for voltage, the simple stuff...http://prolineboatguy.freeforums.org/th ... r-t17.html

That is a great tutorial and a great place for me to start!  Just printed the TS guide from Bennet as well.

Thank you Bob!

Chris

[Whitewater]

Your problem appears to be electrical.  Check to see if you are getting power and test the ground.

Blue Agave,

Both you and Bob were correct; as it were to a point.  I had cleaned all of the connections from the switch to the pin connector from the pin connector they go in as a sealed connection to the pump. Yellow and Blue to the rear of the pump and Green and Red going to each port of the front of the pump.  I could not find a Black ground in that trace at that time (Dark out) Now today took the iPhone and snapped pictures around edges that I could not see around (since it is a tight application where it is mounted) and there I found the black ground on the rear of the pump body.  I traced the wire out to a ground on the engine block and sure enough it was a poor connection.  Snipped it off a few inches back and reconnected after sanding all other O cennections flipped the power and the switch .....she pumped!!  

Working alone I had to test then walk back and check but long story short The left hand switch was dropping the starboard side tab that would bring the port side down and then it would return to flat. That was good !!  

The right hand switch did make the pump cycle however the port side tab did not move at all. I tested it a few times then went back and pushed the tab down to assure that it was not bound.  It dropped under my weight and came right back up so it is free.  I went back to the helm to test the switch one more time and pop the 15A fuse in the block blew.  the inline fuse ( can not tell you the size) stayed in tact.  

Now what  

[Blue Agave]

The trusty iPhone, how did we get by without one.

Chris, well now we know the pump works. Just a little info. on the wires, blue operates the up direction and green operates the down direction and the red and black are power and ground respectively.  Regarding the switches, they are rigged properly. The port switch is suppose to operate the starboard tab and the starboard switch the port tab.  

Now regarding the port tab not moving, my first guess would be you have a leak somewhere between the tab and the pump. Check the hose and all the fittings for the port tab, look for hydralic fluid. Also check to see if the pump is top off with fluid.

Regarding the blown fuse, my fist thought would be the tab is stuck. But you already confirmed it was not.  Hopefully Bob or Tabman will chime in on this issue.

[seabob4]

Chris,
A blown fuse either indicates high amperage (resistance) or a short.  Did the fuse blow immediately, or was it a few seconds?  I'm guessing a "slow blow", which means something in that circuit is binding up, heating up the wires, the fuse blows.  

Swap the hoses on the front of the pump.  See now if the port side switch (starboard side tab) causes the fuse to blow...

[Whitewater]

Chris,
A blown fuse either indicates high amperage (resistance) or a short.  Did the fuse blow immediately, or was it a few seconds?  I'm guessing a "slow blow", which means something in that circuit is binding up, heating up the wires, the fuse blows.  

Swap the hoses on the front of the pump.  See now if the port side switch (starboard side tab) causes the fuse to blow...

It was a slow blow to confirm.... pump ran for a few seconds (6-8) and then the blow.  I read from your earlier attachment that the full up or down movement on a single piston was 4.5 seconds or so (exactly what I ran it the first few times then checked) but I had noticed with the one that works it was a tad slower and I could audibly hear the pump come under strain as your trim up or down will when it hits top or bottom... this tab never strained the pump but she blew none the less.  

I will head out in a few minutes to swap the lines.... I assume this is not a need to bleed system?  Also this is not Hydro fluid system but ATF?  That is the one fluid I do not have on hand  :cry: !!!

[Whitewater]

The trusty iPhone, how did we get by without one.

Chris, well now we know the pump works. Just a little info. on the wires, blue operates the up direction and green operates the down direction and the red and black are power and ground respectively.  Regarding the switches, they are rigged properly. The port switch is suppose to operate the starboard tab and the starboard switch the port tab.  

Now regarding the port tab not moving, my first guess would be you have a leak somewhere between the tab and the pump. Check the hose and all the fittings for the port tab, look for hydralic fluid. Also check to see if the pump is top off with fluid.

Regarding the blown fuse, my fist thought would be the tab is stuck. But you already confirmed it was not.  Hopefully Bob or Tabman will chime in on this issue.

BG-

The iPhone HA !!  I love to hate that thing!!

My tabs may be older than you are used to seeing?  I have 4 wires and then the ground.  Blue, Green, Yellow, Red and then the black gound..

it appears by what you said my switches are wired correctly

I am wondering if this site has a mobile APP?  My wife squints and gives me dirty looks every time I head out the with one of the lap tops LOL!!

[Whitewater]

Okay so here we go

I did all of the trouble shooting as the Bennet guide pointed out to do

Orange + blu,red Port tab down ( worked )
O+B,G Starboard tab down ( didn't work )
O+B,R,G both tabs down (port worked , Starboard didn't)

I did not try the rest as I had my answer

traced green wire and found a fault/ replced the connection

didnt work

swapped the hydro lines and it worked now on the Starboard....

Pump shot on the Starboard side?

[John Jones]

The solenoid valve is bad, or could be just stuck.  A solenoid valve (electrically operated valve) will pull high current until it moves.  If it doesn't move it will continue to pull high current until the fuse blows or the coil in the valve burns up.  That could be what blew the fuse.

[John Jones]

I have had Bennett pumps torn down to nuts and bolts (and put back together and it worked) but it's been so long I had rather defer to tabman on the repair.

[Whitewater]

If HPU motor runs but trim tabs do not move:
• Inspect for disconnected or corroded red and green wire connections at
helm control and quick-disconnect plug.
• The following test can be used to help isolate a malfunction.

Remove wires from helm control and touch together as follows:

          Operation                       Reaction
Orange ( + ), blue, red                    Port trim tab down  Works no problem
Orange ( + ), blue, green                Starboard trim tab down  pump ran but nothing happened at the tab, wire became hot in my hand
Orange ( + ), blue, red, green         Both trim tabs down  Only port tab went down

Did not perform these following functions as the tab did not go down there was no making it come up however pump does run with less strain in up direction when run off switches.

Orange ( + ), yellow, red Port trim tab up  
Orange ( + ), yellow, green Starboard trim tab up
Orange ( + ), yellow, red, green Both trim tabs up

Moving on to hydraulic fluid issue....

If one trim tab operates and the other one does not:..... yes this is me


• Inspect for disconnected or corroded red or green valve wire connections at
helm control and quick-disconnect plug. (Red wire operates port trim tab;
green wire operates starboard trim tab).This was fine so I moved to the next step

• Reverse hydraulic lines at front of HPU to determine if malfunction is in HPU
or actuator / hydraulic connections. If after reversing lines, symptom shifts
to other trim tab This is exactly what happened  , malfunction may exist in HPU.

If symptom remains on the
same side, malfunction may exist with the actuator/hydraulic connections.

Side note when swapping the lines is that the hose on the side that was working pissed fluid all over the place when removed.  the one that was not working had a dribble and that was all when removed.  could be that the working side was under pressure from pumping or that there is a block in the other line?  

Does this mean that there is an issue with the pump or .... could there be a blockage in the line?

Thats my rant for the evening... putting the tools away begrudgingly now... until tomorrow

Thank you
Chris