Classic AquaSport
Aquasport Model Rebuilds, Mods, Updates and Refreshes => Osprey Style Hull Rebuilds => 196 Rebuilds => Topic started by: cryder on June 13, 2020, 12:37:29 PM
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Hi All, Well, here goes. I've seen lots of great info on this site so i'll do my best to contribute. I rebuilt a +/-1980 170 when I was in my teens and this was my boat for years after that and I always like the 200 as an adult sized version of my boat. A good inland waters and bay boat.
I've rebuilt boats as small as a rowing dinghy and as large as a Cal 40 sailboat. I needed a quarantine project so, I bought a 1985 196 project boat (it's in the classified on this site) and it now sits in my father's garage awaiting my arrival. My father has gotten underway on the dismantling of it. In the last week I ordered a new tank from Phil at Alloy Metal Works and I have been researching the daylights out of paint. After WAY too much thought, reading and watching Youtube and almost buying some very expensive Alexseal paint I decided it was better to remain in blissful matrimony and not spend a bunch on paint. It may be worth it, but? I called down to Gold Coast Marine Distributors in Fort Lauderdale and spoke to a guy there who once owned a 196 and he was GREAT. I really have to give them a shout out as they listened and sold me some paint at a great price. BTW, they sell the Alexseal at the best price I could find anyplace. What I decided, with some input from them, it to prime the boat with an intertuf 262 epoxy primer and finish coat it with Interthane 990 in white. In stock it is only available in black and white but OK with that and The price was <25% of Alexseal. I'm looking forward to trying this stuff out. I used Imron on the 170 and gel coat (what a mistake) and then Awlgrip (not Awlcraft) on the Cal 40. I also considered the Rust Oleum 9700 (sold at Grainger) but decided on the 990 paint that is sold and used locally. If they couldn't sell it they wouldn't carry it. The boat has some soft spots in the deck, which I plan on drilling a million holes and injecting epoxy into it. BUT I still may have to remove the deck to get to some wet foam. And the transom has the usual small disaster which I have not yet seen to evaluate. When I get going I'll be sure post some pics. Has anyone used either of these two products, the Intertuf 262 or Interthane 990? I attached the sales lit.
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Hi all, FYI, I just bought new rub rail at Hamilton Marine which is on sale. I bought 50' of DWP-92162-FB with the white insert for under $200 delivered. Should help to dress off the boat nicely. And, I reached out the manufacturer, Barbour Plastics, with a question on which fasteners to use with it (#10 pan head) and they were very helpful and quick to get back to me.
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Sounds like you have things lined up :thumright:
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I'm curious to see how your experience goes with the paint. What parts of the boat are you going to be painting? Im looking to redo my deck at least but not sure if pulling the cap and painting the inner liner would be worth the effort.
Thank You
Ulysses
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Hi Ulysses485, I intend to both prime and finish paint the entirety of the boat above the water line including the non skid area. I purchased the material to do the non skid from the same paint distributor, Gold Coast in Lauderdale. I was going to use soft sand after watching a few youtube vids on that stuff but decided that at 1/3 the price I'd use the stuff sold and used locally and bought enough to use the "broadcast method". I'll start on this project a week from now and will post some pics when I do. My plan B on the deck was (is?) to use a snap together deck called sport court (https://sporttiles.pro/#all-courts) tiles which I used in another renovation and it worked well there but that was below deck. It looks good so long as you use a fehn tool, Harbor Freight equivalent, to really cut in every tile with care. It's very tuff stuff but if you step on a fish on it the results could be a mess for a long time.
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Hi All, I re-finished this boat over the summer and I was so busy I did not post any updates. Sorry about that. In some broad strokes I striped the hull and removed the console, fuel tank, all electrical, pumps, well everything. I then replaced the transom which had been built up to a full height flat back and I raised the transom from 20 to 25". I injected epoxy into the deck to stiffen the soft spots. I reinforced the console with plywood backer plates and built up the base for a stronger connection. I replaced the fuel tank and all hoses to/from. I sanded and faired the hull, painted on 3 coats of interfuf, then 4 coats of interthane 990. I used "course" awlgrip grip tex in a broadcast method on the deck, fore deck and rear cover boards. I located the new bow running lights on the sides so that I could have an anchor on a bow roller and hause pipe. This worked well. I replaced the forward hatch with one I bought. I made up a hatch for the front of the console out of 1/2" starboard. I added 1/4" black starboard trim on the console (try to off set the white) with hand rails on the left, right and top (not yet installed). I made up an electric fuse and switch distribution panel and wired that up. I ran new main power cables fore to aft. I replaced all the hinges and latches and bilge pump. I'm getting tired just writing about this and I did lots more like replace the rub rail, re-fastened the hull to deck joint and made up holders and trim boards for the fishing pole storage areas. Anyway, as I get time I'll post the steps I did and will most likely start with the tank replacement. I do have lots of pics.
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Sounds like a pretty extensive overhaul ... can’t wait for the pictures (worth a 1000 words and less work for fingers)
:PicsNeeded:
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If having an anchor on the bow is what you want, the short shank Lewmar SS anchor I bought is still on sale at Defender for 125. it worked very well with the smallest lewmar bow roller. I failed to take a picture of the anchor in the roller but it does clear the bow and is set on a "shim" of 1 piece of 1/2" starboard just to get it up over the rub rail.
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OK, fist thing I replaced was the fuel tank. When I opened the coffin hold it looked just awful and was sitting in a pool of water and gas and I though 'good thing I ordered one'. The tank dimensions were 63x21x8. The fill hose had deteriorated such that the steel reinforcing was touching the alum fill part and that rotted through. The vent line was also corroded through. The only leak was that the gasket around the fuel level sensor was gone. When I got it out and cleaned up the tank itself, at least on the outside was in VERY good shape. In fact if I had seen it before I ordered a new one I would have re-used it. It was from Allow Metal and had a sticker on it which Phil at said made it older than 12 years. Anyway, I replaced the tank with a new one. The old fill hose would not come out as it was held in place by the spray foam so I ran the new one around it. I was able to do that as there is no left to right stringer forward of the coffin in this model so it passed just ahead of the rise to the fore deck and turned to the gunwale. I replaced the vent, draw lines and grounding wires too. I had some extra epoxy primer paint left over so I slapped that on the tank. I drilled a drain hole from the coffin into the bilge and when I placed it back in I put some wax paper on the corners and set it in a few 'globs' of 5200 to keep it from bouncing around as it had worn into the back corner of the coffin. I flipped the deck cover 180 as that had gotten soft where exposed so i had to add another access plate but NBD and I epoxied a 2x6 to the bottom of it on both sides of the new access to stiffen that up below your feet at the helm. My lesson in this phase is 1) pull the tank, clean it up and give it a good look before you buy another one. 2) Phil at Allow Metal was great to work with and gave a great deal on the tank. Seriously 1/2 the $$ what others quoted and he makes a great product because I probably could have used the one in there. 3) Don't even try to get the fuel fill line out. Chipping away the foam holding it in place is just not possible.
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Next post...the transom. I had hoped I would be able to avoid cutting into the factory glass but no such luck. The boat had been made into a flat back and the owner told me he would revert it. So I did. I new it had a few issues but it was pretty stiff and this guy used the heck out the boat, I decided to raise the transom to 25" so I rough cut it down to that height with a circular saw and found that the plywood core was completely gone. I cut the outer skin off to about 4" from the edge and cleaned out the old core. I made up a new core from 4 30" or so tall sections of 3/4" thick sections of okoum plywood ($250) with offset skarfs in it. I see allot of folks butchering the factory glass work and I wanted to avoid that, here and with the soft deck fix. I mixed epoxy with fiberglass and packed that into the perimeter, panted the plywood with epoxy, placed thickened epoxy on the exposed glass and between layers and skarf joints. clamped it all in place. let it dry, then built it up again with 7 or 8 layers (thin) of glass mat and epoxy and then used filler to try and fair it out. It came out OK but I ran out of enthusiasm by that stage so the finish is not perfect. I did replace the 3 drain tubes as well and that would have been impossible (very difficult anyway) without the swager tool. Lesson in this phase was don't seal 100% the outside face of the outside layer of core until it is set. It made things messy trying to get it braced. Also, that transom is thick. so when you have to build it up, in resin it could be done with heavy matt and lots of layers, In epoxy one ends up with a large area to fill to get the thicknesses.
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I'm on a roll posting. Next was the stiffening of the soft deck. It wasn't too bad but it needed it. I saw a youtube of a guy injecting epoxy and decided to do that. I bought a few empty caulking tubes and drilled a hole in the plunger and put a string in it to retrieve the plunger. I started by using a chalk line to snap a grid on the deck. I then rolled a 2x4 down it to drill holes about every 4" or so. I used a bit with a tapered stop collar so that when filled the plug is a bit wider than the hole. I used the old access plate as a "dam" at the back and mixed and injected thickened epoxy till it was coming out of everywhere. I had some fancy plunger injectors I got from jamestown but for production work the caulking tube worked much better. But what a mess it made. The end result was perfect and the deck is as hard as a rock with 2, yes 2 gallons of thickened epoxy in it. Some holes took none and other half a tube. Lesson learned on this one. 1) the coffin cover is NOT as thick as the deck. (Please refrain from comments) 2) Do not use the epoxy coming out as excess to level the diamond pattern. I ended up having to scrape it all off and belt sand the deck. Some places it bonded and others it did not.
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Rebuilding the console. I took everything off and filled all the holes on the outside. I flipped it over and dug out the wood filler around the edge where it attaches to the deck. Used tape to create a "dam" and poured epoxy into it to reinforce where the screws hold it down. I added nominal 3/8" plywood backer plates behind the helm, gauge area and top. I glued on a plywood reinforcing around the inside of the main opening in front. I assumed that the stress cracks on the corners here would 'telegraph' though so when I made the access hatch out of a piece of starboard I made it wide to cover the corners. I cut and places black 1/4" starboard for the helm, gauge area and top. I also glued a couple of 2x4 pieces on the inside to fasten an electric panel to. The console on my 17 always lifted up and it made it tough to hold on tight as high speeds so i wanted this thing rouged. I chose to place though bolted hand rails (12") on the sides and a 24" along the top (which is not in pace yet). I set the console in a bed of 5200. It takes a day or 2 for the 5200 to set, which I forgot, about so use the fast cure stuff. Console came out OK a but industrial looking but I'll probably replace the doors I made up with a store bought hatch. I also made up some new drink holders out of starboard scraps. And, I used starbaord hole saw cut outs to back the hand rails. Sorry i'm lacking pics of the console and some of them are HEIC which I cant seem to upload
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Chris - it is better to upload you pics to your free gallery on this site. The site sizes them , no matter what size you upload, to 800x600, which is a great viewing size.
Please follow the instructions here http://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=12725.0 - don't attach them - you are limited by file size. Uploading them into your "member gallery" is better for viewing.
Spend a few minutes to absorb the instructions. It's really easy. Remember if using a phone to take pics, to hold the phone horizontal with the lens to the left.
If you can get them to your gallery I can fix the posts to date.
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Great work! Thanks for sharing and updating us on your progress.
Ulysses
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OK, The one you've been waiting for. PAINT. I started by a rough clean, take off everything, clean with total boat surface cleaner dewaxer, opened up the holes with a wedge shaped recess bit, filled and faired everything with total boat 2 part filler or thickened epoxy or 3M fairing compound. Honestly, I did not sand enough because of time issues and although most may not see my lack of sanding I can. I then primed everything with 2-3 coats of Intertuf 262 (2 gallons @ $42./Gal) mixed with thinner at 4:1:1. Rolled with red hawk mohair roller, tipped with badger hair brush. This stuff worked VERY WELL. Cheap, dried hard as a rock, bonded to everything and designed for the Interthane 990 (2@$68/Gal + 1 gal primer at $42) I used to over coat it. If I had the time and either sanded the primer OR sprayed both the under and final finish it would have come out perfect. BTW, the paint is low VOC but the thinner sure ain't. On the finish paint I did the "other than non skid" area first. Same application with the roller and tip. On the non skid I used 'course' awlgrip grip tex with a broadcast method. Rolled one layer, then broadcast, then vacuum, then 3 more coast over it which goes fast without the tipping step. I should have sanded the diamond skid down more but it still came out perfect. The non skid hides many sins. Overall VERY happy with the cost, workability and outcome (for the $ spent) of this paint. If I had the time I would have sanded more and perhaps sprayed it. The last coat went on a perfect application day for roll & tip. I was comfortable with the workability and took my time and perhaps I'm too critical but it looks good, not great. Far from perfect. Perfect from afar. Again, if I had a long new england winter to work on it then it would have come out perfect.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/20200710_204921.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=20959&title=paint-job&cat=500)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/20200725_143308.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=20960&title=paint-job&cat=500)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_00962.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=20963&title=paint-job&cat=500)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_00423.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=20961&title=paint-job&cat=500)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_00513.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=20962&title=paint-job&cat=500)
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Next up is the gunwale guard replacement. The old stuff looked OK but I wanted to do this to improve the look of the boat and I fond it on sale at Hamilton Marine. I removed the old stuff and noted that some of the screws holding the deck to the hull were loose or had "ovaled out" the holes all together. First I used #12 broad head screws and added these to holes where the old gunwale was fastened through the hull and deck. The new gunwale is taller so it would only "catch" the hull. I then removed the old deck to hull screws and replaced those with the same #12 broads. These were about 10 per 100 from Jamestown. I then watched a video on installing a new gunwale that said to heat the product first. I've done this job a few times without this step but thought it sounded like a good idea. BTW, the gunwale was, is, Barbour Plastics Part Number: DWP-92162-FB. Here's the lesson. Warm is good but be careful not to stretch it too much as I did. Laid it in the sun on a nice hot day. Fastened it at the bow with the same #12 broad heads and then stretched it at the stern and had someone fasten it there. The issue is something called poisson's ratio which being an engineer I should have been more aware of. As you stretch something one way it get's narrower in the perpendicular direction. Think stretching out taffee. I had a hell of a time getting the white insert into the narrowed gap for same. I ended using a pair of lock grip used in welding that look like a hammer head and a heat gun and some soap. Heat 12". squish 3" flat and push it in. On the plus side it was so hot than when it, the gunwale not the insert, cooled it pulled in VERY tight to the hull and it looks great. This job was well worth the $200 or so of material. BTW, I used the recommended way to add pics last time and it was cumbersome to say the least.
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:great02: :great02:
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OK, I'm gonna add this hear and perhaps it should go someplace else too but I had a 2001 Honda 130 on this boat with a 4 blade 13.25x15 prop that maxed out at about about 5400 RPM. I used this about 4 times before the rot in the exhaust port killed that engine. I am guessing it went 35 or so with this. But now I just bought a 2021 Suzuki DF140A and with a 4 blade 13*19 it turns 5400+ (still over propped I know) but is much slower as the Suzuki has a 2.59:1 gear box where as the Honda (and old Mercs and a Yamaha F150) have a 2:1 gear box. The BIG (and I mean HUGE difference here is that the Honda or Merc or Yamaha at 4000 RPM's turn the prop at 2000 RPM. The Suzuki needs to turn 5180 RPMS at the power head to get 2000 rpms at the prop. So planing speed with a Yamaha may be 4000 RPM but with the Suzuki it will be nearly 5200. I have an excel spread sheet that goes over this math. The Suzuki is lighter BUT if you have a light boat like an aquasport you don't need to worry about working the engine too hard to get up onto a plane. In theory the suzuki turns a bigger prop but slower and I must be honest, IMHO, the old Honda had a better hole shot and planed the boat at a lower RPM.
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BTW the paint is working very well a year later BUT the white deck was a mistake. It just shows every spec of dirt and I plan on buying a gallon of black to make up some grey and painting the decks grey now that I have the engine sorted out.
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Hi, I am replacing my tank as well. I see the description of how you pilled new fuels lines. Do you have any pictures besides these? I am trying to figure out where to drill holes to get the new filler and lines up to the fill hole and vent hole. Any info would be excellent. I was thinking I can run the vent line through the existing filler tube and use it as a conduit and run the filler tube where the vent line used to be as it seems to have some play.
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Have you tried a different prop on the Suzuki to make up for the gear reduction? I've seen a lot of Suzuki's use a larger diameter prop, not just pitch change, to best push the boat.
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Hi, I am replacing my tank as well. I see the description of how you pilled new fuels lines. Do you have any pictures besides these? I am trying to figure out where to drill holes to get the new filler and lines up to the fill hole and vent hole. Any info would be excellent. I was thinking I can run the vent line through the existing filler tube and use it as a conduit and run the filler tube where the vent line used to be as it seems to have some play.
Hi, I finally gave up on trying to dig through the foam to get the new fuel fill line in. I used a hole saw to make a new hole to the port of the existing one and I ran it forward below the deck past the end of the fore-aft structure and then up to the fuel fill deck plate. It does 'flop around' a bit so I spared some foam around it in a few places to hold it. Messy job under the deck. Not optimal but done and after 2 years all OK. I did run the vent line through the abandoned old fuel fill line as you mention. Lesson learned on that one is don't forget the high loop on the vent line like this dummy did. I got water in the tank and had to splice in a few feet of hose to make a high loop. Fortunatly I added a fuel water separator so no harm. And I added a clam shell over the new vent on the outside to divert water just for good measure. Another mistake (common as it turns out apparently) is I ran all new wires but what I should have done is run a conduit through the fuel tank coffin area and then run the wires through that. duhh. Not an issue yet but at some point in time I will wish I had a pull string through there. Hope this helps and good luck. The more I use my 196 the more I love it. Perfect sized boat.
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Have you tried a different prop on the Suzuki to make up for the gear reduction? I've seen a lot of Suzuki's use a larger diameter prop, not just pitch change, to best push the boat.
I really should go back and change all my gripes about the prop and lack of speed. Here's the story. I now trailer the boat and I noticed a few months ago the bow eye coming loose with the use. The one thing i did not do but OK NBD. I pulled out the floor to the rope locker to find about 200 lbs of store bought lead ingot in there, glassed carefully in place, which I removed with great effort and replaced the wood block behind the bow eye. When I bought the boat it had been flat backed but the seller took the mount off for the sale. He said the boat never seemed to 'ride right' with a 175 2 stroke on it and having had that problem in a previous boat I decided that when I rebuilt the transom I would NOT flat back it, but I did raise the mount height by 5". The lead was all store bought so I assume that the original rich Marblehead guy who owned it and paid someone to flat back it for him found out the boat was now out of balance with an engine on a bracket and paid someone to add the lead to get the bow down. Point being is that now that I 'got the lead out' the boat rides great. I ended up with a Suzuki 3x14x18 SS prop which is a tad under propped but I have tons of power at all RPM's and the boat planes very comfortably at about 4200 RPM with a full load of gas and 2 adults. Since I really don't like how the boat handles when going fast, and it is after all a 35+ year old hull I'm careful with the old girl, this is just fine with me.
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Cryder I am about to install a pie plate for bilge access similar to the hole you have drilled on yours. Do you have the dimensions from the transom to the edge of the hole you drilled?
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Also what size deck plate did you install?
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Hi, I did not add that access plate as it was there when I bought the boat so I just replaced the 8" nominal size access port and I don't keep the boat at my house so I can not measure it but I do KNOW that in my 1985 196 model there is nothing to 'hit' or 'miss' under the floor aft of the tank coffin. Come to think of it mine have a (I think) factory mounting platform (flat spot) for the bilge pump. Looks to be about 12" clear from this picture. One trick I did which worked well. I put a screw into the center of the access hatch and used it to hold a zip tie holding the wire connections for the bilge pump up out of the water
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HI All, It's been 2 years and so I decided to do an update and let all know how things are holding up and where I made mistakes. First, I love this boat. It's the medium bear. I can tow with a non-monster truck, launch and retrieve it by myself and with the Sukuki 140 and a smallish 18P prop it jumps up on plane and stays there at 4200 RPM.
What went right:
-The console is still crack free, solid and holding to the deck with no problem.
-The fuel tank is great but I did fail, at first, to high lop the vent line so I got water in the tank. Good thing I put in a fuel water separator.
-The gunnel guard is great.
-The paint is holding up FANTASTIC. Glossy, hard and no chips.
-The epoxy injected into the deck made it solid BUT I failed to remember a fundamental truth-epoxy is harder than polyester resin. Even though I scraped and sanded these I ended up with the 'nubs' of the epoxy visible, not too bad but I notice it when one looks at the deck.
-The transom is holding up really well. It's solid with no concerning cracks and I used plywood BUT see below.
-I striped the bottom paint, then barrier coated it and painted it and this made a huge difference to how the boat looks.
-I bought a hand rail for the console on FB marketplace which allowed me to use the windshield which again made the boat look totally different and with the console so solid the hand rail is solid.
-I bought an 8’ long bimini, again FB marketplace, and it is a must here in south florida. I added a few solid struts to the back and I have heavy bungy chord from the console rail to the corner for when I’m in chop.
-The lewmar bow roller and short shank anchor provides plenty of holding power. I bought a 6’ section of SS chain and covered it with nylon chaif guard. Looks good, works great.
-I bought a full engine cover for when it’s on the trailer. Best $100 you can spend to protect a new engine investment.
-I love the old school analogue gauges. I tried the single digital and it looked plain.
-I love the $130? Boss radio I bought (with 2 speakers) which Bluetooth connects to my phone. It’s perfect. It did get moisture in it inside of week but it still works.
-I love the Edson steering knob. I tried a lewmar and it was junk. I tried an Amazon special and it was too small. The Edson is expensive but it’s worth it.
-I love the simplicity of the old school morse steering cable and my 100 lb 17 year old daughter can turn the wheel.
-The leaning post I bought off FB marketplace too and I should have spent a few bucks more to get one with a better fit n finish. This was cheap and I guess it looks OK. I fasted this to the deck just like the console setting it a bed of 5200 and screwing it down.
What went not so well:
-Messing around with two, yes two, old engines. If your wife will allow it. After you spend all this time and money on a boat go buy an engine. My wife eventually told me it was OK.
-The deck color. The white shows every spec of dirt. I should have bought some black and mixed up grey for the deck. I will do this over the winter.
-There are cracks in the transom in the filler. I used epoxy to glass in the transom and that made it strong BUT I had to build it out to get something close to flat. I was running out of steam at this point and just used way too much, too thick, fairing style filler. Some day I may tackle making this pretty but I sort of doubt it. I now enjoy using the boat instead of working on it.
-I bought a Taylor made cover for the boat for like $400. I love that it keeps the boat clean on the trailer between uses but wish I had just spent a bit more on a sunbrella version. 2 years later and this thing is dead and yes I submitted a warranty claim but it's a prorated value.
-In hindsight I should have done more sanding for the paint OR sprayed it. It looks OK for the time I had to do the project but could have been better and now that everything is mounted fixing that is doubtful. I was planning to buff the paint but I have not as of yet for fear of it looking worse where it now looks OK.
-I personally like the SS hand rail in the front BUT I should not have put the mid ship cleats back on. I never need a spring line and they get in the way of going over the side.
-The bow roller can be tricky to get into the roller but IMO it’s still better that having to stow the anchor in a hatch between uses which was something I wanted from the beginning. This was one few thing about my old 170 I could not stand.
All in all as they say I’m very happy with the mix of what my time and money allowed for. A buddy of mine bought a 15’ whaler right after I did this project and 2 years later he’s still working on it while I get to use my boat.
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Looks good - congrats on the outcome.
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Looks good! Not everyone perseveres and finishes the “Project”. Enjoy 😉
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Nice!
Thanks for sharing and enjoy. :salut: