Classic AquaSport
Aquasport Model Rebuilds, Mods, Updates and Refreshes => Osprey Style Hull Rebuilds => 191 Rebuilds => Topic started by: Xjbob99 on May 20, 2016, 09:13:06 AM
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Well. Its time. i pulled a little section of my transom cap off and sure enough its really rotted and the fact that it flexes like crazy told me its junk. Im going to start tearing into it tonight. going to try to get the whole gunwale cap off to save me time in fiberglassing the cut sections back in.
here is a picture of the boat. ive had it out once fishing and i love it so far.
(http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z204/llibobill/20160516_121118.jpg) (http://s188.photobucket.com/user/llibobill/media/20160516_121118.jpg.html)
and here is a picture of the transom cap ripped off
(http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z204/llibobill/received_1229043387113499.jpeg) (http://s188.photobucket.com/user/llibobill/media/received_1229043387113499.jpeg.html)
hopefully i can get everything ripped out this weekend and get a material list for Monday and get some stuff on order.
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Here is the layup schedule i have in mind so far.
get it all down to the old skin and cleaned from there it will go as follows
1-lay down 2 layers of 1708 and 1 layer of 3/4 CSM
2- make the new core, 3/4 marine ply- 3/4 CSM -3/4 ply lay on flat cement floor and put a bunch on cinder blocks on it and let it cure for 2 days.
3- dry fit new core in and come up with a clamping plan, thinking 4x4's and all thread, then lay a fillet of cabosil around the skin. then use a 1/4 notched trowel and spread the cabosil evenly on the old skin and set the new core and clamp. let that cure for 2 days.
4- fill in any gaps around new core with fillets and then tab in the new core with 1708
5- layer of 1708
6- tab in more 1708
7- final layer of 1708.
let me know if you would adjust any of this? also anyone have a rough estimate on how much resin this would take.
here is a rough list of what i will be ordering:
2 gallons of us composites Epoxy with 3:1 Ratio Medium Epoxy Hardener (not sure if this is too much or not enough yet)
1 set of 3:1 ratio pumps
1708 biaxial need to measure to come up with an exact amount
3/4 chopped strand mat
cabosil
2x 4x8 marine plywood
misc brushes and rollers.
please let me know if you think i would need anything else or if forgot anything!
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I ran into a huge snag. It looks some replaced the middle part of the transom. Just the middle and it's a pain in the ass to remove from the outer skin. What are my options here. Should I just cut the whole thing out?
(http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z204/llibobill/20160520_193830.jpg) (http://s188.photobucket.com/user/llibobill/media/20160520_193830.jpg.html)
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See if you can dam it off and pour boiling water on it that should loosen it up enough to be able to chisel it off relatively easily. I had to do that on the deck of my mako where the plywood was because the balsa was MUSH but the plywood was either dry or mostly dry and WELL adhered. It was easier on a flat surface but I'd imagine if you dammed it off put some rags over it and kept it hot for a couple hours would help loosen the wood up. Chisel crossways to the grain and it will peel off easier and in bigger chunks especially if it's wet.
Clean off what's left with a tigerpaw and a 4" grinder. The $10 harbor freight one works fine and will be your best friend throughout this project they also have the tigerpaws pretty cheap too. This SHOULD go without saying but WEAR SAFTY GLASSES when you use the grinder. I also use a half faced respirator but I'll leave it to you to make that call
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Hey xj, I think your layup schedule looks fine 'cept you don't need to tab in the transom core. Just laminate 3 layers of 1708 in increasingly bigger overlaps onto the hull bottom and hull sides - 4", 8" and 12". That gives you built in tabs.
Also consider gluing in a foot long piece of 1 1/4" - 1 1/2" ID pvc pipe to the hull bottom aligned with the drain plug. With all the lams you're adding of 1708 you're changing the low point in the hull to about a foot forward of the transom and you'll always have water pooling there. With the pipe, you're keeping the low point at the transom so all water will drain out. (Wish I had learned this prior to doing my rebuild) Follow this rebuild to learn also. http://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=13717.msg137297#msg137297
As for your transom core removal, do you have, or have access to an air chisel and a skill saw? Use the saw to cut the transom core into small strips (make sure not to lower your blade into the skin) and then use the air chisel to peel it off the skin - works great. Then use the grinder Levi recommends to clean it up to bare glass. If you don't have an air chisel, try Levi's approach.
BTW, you're going to need to cut the stringers back 18" to give you room to work and do the lams you need.
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I tried and tried and tried getting that center piece out that someone put in. I couldn't do it. There was 1/4 piece of metal in there too... I think they cut the transom down and just put in that center piece. There was no outside skin there where that center piece was so I just ended up cutting it out all together and saveinget as much as the regular skin as possible. Is this going to be a problem? Also now that the transom skin is so short so I still go along with my planned schedule and just add some layers to the back????
(http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z204/llibobill/FB_IMG_1463797543009.jpg) (http://s188.photobucket.com/user/llibobill/media/FB_IMG_1463797543009.jpg.html)
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Alright sanding is going pretty well. Got most of what's left of the outside skin flat and smooth. The side of the hull in the pictures below the inside skin seems to be unattached to the outside of the hull. Should I cut those skins back so when I glass in the core it bonds to the hull then the next layers glass it into that inside skin?
Here's the inside skin Where's it's not attached to the hull
(http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z204/llibobill/20160521_122750.jpg) (http://s188.photobucket.com/user/llibobill/media/20160521_122750.jpg.html)
The other side
(http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z204/llibobill/20160521_122728_1.jpg) (http://s188.photobucket.com/user/llibobill/media/20160521_122728_1.jpg.html)
And does this look good so far
(http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z204/llibobill/FB_IMG_1463849376038.jpg) (http://s188.photobucket.com/user/llibobill/media/FB_IMG_1463849376038.jpg.html)
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I saw what I thought was metal plate and said to my self - "naw, couldn't be". Guess I was wrong.
(http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z204/llibobill/received_1229043387113499.jpeg)
Did you get good measurements of where the notch was? Should be 20" up from the bottom of the hull.
There are plenty of examples of using some formica covering some plywood to make a nice flat mold to build your transom skin. Look at Hawgleg's rebuild - he documented that pretty well.
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Yeah I measured everything. I believe I have a 25 inch shaft motor. From the drain plug to the top of the transom measured 25 inches
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Ahhh, that explains why the transom had been reworked. I think the original was 20".
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Yeah. Wish they hadn't. Would of been way easier to remove that rotted stuff
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well. materials are on order. should be here for memorial day weekend. found a local lumber yard that has the marine ply. should have the outside skin on next weekend.
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Took memorial day weekend off from the boat. Finally made some progress tonight after work.
Set the dam up
(http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z204/llibobill/FB_IMG_1464732392638.jpg) (http://s188.photobucket.com/user/llibobill/media/FB_IMG_1464732392638.jpg.html)
Then laid the fillets in and was running out of steam. Hopefully lay the outer skin tomorrow
(http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z204/llibobill/20160531_212551.jpg) (http://s188.photobucket.com/user/llibobill/media/20160531_212551.jpg.html)
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Nice clean work :thumleft:
Couple things I would do:
1) cut the dam way down to 6" higher than the finished transom skin height - you want to be able to spring clamp the layers of cloth at the top of the dam and flip the cloth into the boat as you need them. Clamp the pieces of cloth onto the dam and make sure they are long enough to give you 4", 8" and 12" of overlap on the hull bottom and sides. Once you have the proper lengths flip all out of the boat and then flip the first one in and trim/pleat it. Then flip the 2nd one in and repeat, etc. Then to actually lam them in, flip all out of the boat, roll resin onto the areas, flip the first one in and hard roll, repeat adding more resin as you go.
2) I would glue (using thickened resin like you did the fillets) a 1" ID/1 foot long piece of PVC onto the hull bottom aligned with the drain hole. Reason for this is that as you build up your new skin lams and then add the core and lam that in, you're actually moving the low spot in the boat out ahead of the transom and now the boat won't drain all the water out (like in mine and others after our rebuild :thumbdown: ). With the pipe installed, you'll have a way to plumb the water out of the new low spot. There are a couple examples of following this advice on the site. I see that you have already filleted over the drain hole - I would drill a hole through that the size of the OD of the pipe and glue the pipe in.
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Thanks for the advice rickk i was planing on putting the pipe in. would now the be the correct time? i was going to put it in after i got my 3 layers of biaxial down.
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Do it before. Glue and fillet it in and then drape, roll the cloth over it. Later on you'll grind an angle on it so the water can get in.
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perfect, ill do that first tonight! thanks again.
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Remember to take pics ;-)
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Got the drain pipe in. A little sloppy on the fillet but I smooth it out more after the pic.
(http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z204/llibobill/20160601_163921.jpg) (http://s188.photobucket.com/user/llibobill/media/20160601_163921.jpg.html)
After that I started laying on the biaxial. Here's the 2nd layer. I wish I smoothed out my fillets a little better. There was some bubbles I couldn't get out for the life of me and I wish I ground down the edges where it meets the dam a little better. All in all I'm pretty happy with it. It could have been better. This is my first time doing anything with glass.
(http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z204/llibobill/20160601_195258.jpg) (http://s188.photobucket.com/user/llibobill/media/20160601_195258.jpg.html)
And the last layer of the outside skin. Pretty low on epoxy so I'm putting in an order for 2 more gallons tomorrow.
(http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z204/llibobill/20160601_204942.jpg) (http://s188.photobucket.com/user/llibobill/media/20160601_204942.jpg.html)
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Looks like it came out pretty good.
When you use fillets to round out the corners you want to let them start to stiffen up but not let them cure before continuing. You want to do everything wet on wet so it is all one piece as it cures. You let them start to cure so you don't squeeze them out as you hard roll.
So just like you'll need to scruff up the glass you just laid before you proceed, there is no difference with fillets that you lay in and let cure.
Hey, live and learn ;-)
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Looks like it came out pretty good.
When you use fillets to round out the corners you want to let them start to stiffen up but not let them cure before continuing. You want to do everything wet on wet so it is all one piece as it cures. You let them start to cure so you don't squeeze them out as you hard roll.
So just like you'll need to scruff up the glass you just laid before you proceed, there is no difference with fillets that you lay in and let cure.
Hey, live and learn ;-)
originally that was my plan. but the fillets were taking forever to harden up and i ran out of time. i didnt scuff the fillets. :38: hopefully they will be fine and have a good bond
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That is the beauty of epoxy - would have been better if you scruffed them up but...
And epoxy does take a while to harden depending on what type you use, i.e. slow, medium, tropical, etc.
As the saying goes "Patience Grasshopper" :D
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Well. Not much to do tonight ran out of epoxy. Order some more this afternoon. Came home and took the dam off. I gotta say I'm pretty impressed with it. Only a few bubbles but I think I'll be fun :great02:
(http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z204/llibobill/20160602_165918.jpg) (http://s188.photobucket.com/user/llibobill/media/20160602_165918.jpg.html)
(http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z204/llibobill/20160602_165932.jpg) (http://s188.photobucket.com/user/llibobill/media/20160602_165932.jpg.html)
(http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z204/llibobill/20160602_165946.jpg) (http://s188.photobucket.com/user/llibobill/media/20160602_165946.jpg.html)
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alright im trying to come up with a plan for next week. does this sound good.
make template and cut out new core.
its going to be 3/4 marine plywood-3/4oz CSM- 3/4 plywood. wet both pieces of plywood then lay the csm down and wet it out and lay it on the garage floor with a bunch of heavy stuff on it and let it set up.
next ill dry fit the core and come up with a clamping system. once i feel that is perfected ill scuff up the outside skin clean it up and mix up a batch of cabosil and 3/4" chopped strands and 1/4 trowel it on the skin and transom core then set it in and clamp it.
once that dries and is all set i plan to lay 3 more layers of 1708. is that too many? should i stick to two?
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You've been studying :clap01:
Everything looks good in your plan. The 3/4" chopped strand is going to make it pretty messy though. I think I used cabosil mixed to thickness of peanut butter and trowelled that on the skin and then clamped it.
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Excellent work!
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Thanks hawgleg. Basically I'm copying what you did in your build haha.thanks so much for posting your build!!!
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You've been studying :clap01:
Everything looks good in your plan. The 3/4" chopped strand is going to make it pretty messy though. I think I used cabosil mixed to thickness of peanut butter and trowelled that on the skin and then clamped it.
Hey rick,
The 3/4 CSM will be going in the middle of the 3/4 plywood. Then I'll be clamping in it the way you said
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.... and mix up a batch of cabosil and 3/4" chopped strands and 1/4 trowel it on the skin and transom core then set it in and clamp it.
This is what I was talking about.
The 3/4oz CSM between the transom cores is fine.
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.... and mix up a batch of cabosil and 3/4" chopped strands and 1/4 trowel it on the skin and transom core then set it in and clamp it.
This is what I was talking about.
The 3/4oz CSM between the transom cores is fine.
yeah i should of proof read that before pressing post haha.
plywood-3/4 CSM-plywood.
then ill clamp it in with the cabosil.
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;-)
I used 3/4, 1708, 3/4 in between transom cores. Maybe overkill but it's stout.
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e19/rkins/2012%20170%20Rebuild/IMG_2788.jpg)
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Looks BEEFY!
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;-)
I used 3/4, 1708, 3/4 in between transom cores. Maybe overkill but it's stout.
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e19/rkins/2012%20170%20Rebuild/IMG_2788.jpg)
what did you use on the inside skin?
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http://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=10101.msg89625#msg89625
For the bow side lam of the transom I think I went with 3 layers of 1708 with 4, 8, 12 overlap (been a long time since I did it)
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Got the transom in finally and clamped.
(http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z204/llibobill/Mobile%20Uploads/20160611_121147.jpg) (http://s188.photobucket.com/user/llibobill/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20160611_121147.jpg.html)
(http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z204/llibobill/Mobile%20Uploads/20160611_121137.jpg) (http://s188.photobucket.com/user/llibobill/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20160611_121137.jpg.html)
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Looks like that will pull it in nice and flat. :thumleft:
When you lam the front of the transom shorten the overlaps - maybe 3,6,9".
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That's the plan. I went way too far with the initial overlays
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whats my best option with the stringers. i saved my old skins but some how one of the side stringer skins got thrown away. also i will have a 8" gap between the transom and the stringers. can i make that up with just fiberglass or will i need to make some sort of mold?
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took the clamping system off yesterday. amazing how stout it is. going to fillet the corners then lay 3 layers of 1708 over it tonight. then to figure out the stringers.
(http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z204/llibobill/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20160612_151709.jpg) (http://s188.photobucket.com/user/llibobill/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20160612_151709.jpg.html)
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Transom looks stout and ready for completion :thumleft:
As for the stringers, I think the easiest way is a mold.
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Transom looks stout and ready for completion :thumleft:
As for the stringers, I think the easiest way is a mold.
i was hoping you were not going to say mold haha. guess thats what ill do. do it once do it right.
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Show us some pics of what you're talking about and maybe others will have a better idea. We can see the inner stringers but show us the "outer" you're talking about.
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ill snap some today when i get out of work and before i lay bow side skin.
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Here's what I was talking about in this pic I accidently threw out that stringer at the edge. What's the best way of making up that gap.
(http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z204/llibobill/20160613_174008.jpg) (http://s188.photobucket.com/user/llibobill/media/20160613_174008.jpg.html)
And here's the gaps between the stringers and transom. What's the best way to fiberglass the over that gap
(http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z204/llibobill/20160613_174015.jpg) (http://s188.photobucket.com/user/llibobill/media/20160613_174015.jpg.html)
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I think I would look at the many rebuilds that have built transom support knees and tied them into the stringer systems.
The builders can comment on their approach and what they might do different on yours.
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ive been seaching everywhere! all the builds ive been seeing theyve done the stringers throughout :41:
im debating on ending the stringers where i cut them and just adding knees. my stringers were a little wet back there when i first cut into them but they are dry now. i think it was from someone cutting half the stringer out to route the bilge hose. my stringers are also not de-laminating from the hull either. i just would feel better if the transom was tied into the stringers throughout the hull.
any thoughts on this?
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Most of the builds that have added knees did it after extending the stringers back to the transom. I guess you could make stringer extensions that also served as knees.
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whats the best way to extend the stringers back into the transom without having the old skin. somehow i mistaken them as trash and tossed them. is a mold my only option?
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Here's a thought.
http://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=2579.msg17956#msg17956
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Here's a thought.
http://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=2579.msg17956#msg17956
this is why i love this forum. everyone here is so helpful! that looks like it would work for me on 3 of the stringers. i dont think i can run a piece that far on the stringer skin i tossed with out it sagging like crazy.
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Just got in from laying 3 layers of 1708 for the bow side skin. Just made it with the epoxy I had left. Got more coming Friday and hope to have the stringers in by Sunday!
(http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z204/llibobill/20160614_214842.jpg) (http://s188.photobucket.com/user/llibobill/media/20160614_214842.jpg.html)
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Here's a thought.
http://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=2579.msg17956#msg17956
This method looks like it would work exceptionally well, particularly once the deck was on, if you put some knees/gussets in to tie the deck & transom together.
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Here's a thought.
http://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=2579.msg17956#msg17956
This method looks like it would work exceptionally well, particularly once the deck was on, if you put some knees/gussets in to tie the deck & transom together.
Like so: (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_3110.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=14298&title=img-3110&cat=500)
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well made some more progress on the boat last night. cut the notch out in the transom for the outboard.
(http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z204/llibobill/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20160616_224035.jpg) (http://s188.photobucket.com/user/llibobill/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20160616_224035.jpg.html)
then onto figuring out these tricky stringers. i laid out my skins that i cut out and ended up scratching that idea.
(http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z204/llibobill/20160615_173800.jpg) (http://s188.photobucket.com/user/llibobill/media/20160615_173800.jpg.html)
i was just going through my phone and seems like i didnt take any pictures of the plywood forms i set up in the boat to pour the foam :-( but heres is a few shots of the outside stringers done. im going to fillet them in and lay 2 layers of 1708 over them.
(http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z204/llibobill/Mobile%20Uploads/20160616_195743.jpg) (http://s188.photobucket.com/user/llibobill/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20160616_195743.jpg.html)
(http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z204/llibobill/Mobile%20Uploads/20160616_205332.jpg) (http://s188.photobucket.com/user/llibobill/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20160616_205332.jpg.html)