Classic AquaSport
Aquasport Model Rebuilds, Mods, Updates and Refreshes => Express Fisherman/ Walkaround/ Explorer Rebuilds => Explorer Rebuilds => Topic started by: msteinkampf on February 12, 2023, 09:31:25 PM
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My family has been complaining that my 1990 Montauk 17 is too small for the fishing we do, so I brought this home last week – a 1995 Aquasport Explorer 245 with twin Yamaha 150 HP engines.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/953/IMG_8671.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23199&title=boat-pic-2-12-23&cat=953)
It had been sitting under a pine tree in central Mississippi since 2017. The transom is solid, the engines are in pretty good shape considering the circumstances, and the trailer was good enough for the 200+ mile trip home. I didn’t pay much for the boat because of this:
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/953/IMG_8675.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23201&title=deck-pix-2-12-23&cat=953)
Apparently, a previous owner had sought to deal with the deck sagging by cutting open the “coffin lid” and inserting planks between the deck and the stringers. I could find no trace of sealant or fiberglass on the cut edges of the deck, and the exposed plywood is clearly rotted, as shown here.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/953/IMG_8678.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23203&title=deck-pix-2-12-23&cat=953)
The deck is soft from the helm to six inches in front of the fish box in the stern, from one side of the hull to the other. The helm seats and adjacent cooler boxes seem firmly attached to the deck. The coffin lid is delaminating, and here was the owner’s solution – new plywood and a dab of 3M 5200.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/953/IMG_8676.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23202&title=deck-pix-2-12-23&cat=953)
My plan is to cut out the deck and replace the rotted plywood. I’d like to keep the coffin lid as removable in case I ever need to swap out the tank. Now, I’ve looked at several tutorials here and elsewhere online, but none of them are on an Explorer. (I realize there is a good reason for this, as most owners treat their boats better than the previous owners of this boat did.) I’m not sure how to deal with the helm seats/coolers. Do I just cut around them and leave them in place? Should I expect to find rotted wood under them as well? Just how are the seats/coolers attached to the rest of the boat?
Any advice from those with experience in this task would be greatly appreciated. This project begins tomorrow with removal of the planks and drainage/removal/inspection of the fuel tank.
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Well you got a lot of stuff going on here.
First, it appears the fuel tank "coffin cover" was cut and removed by the PO. That may have been to address the soft deck or....replace/repair the fuel tank. In either case, I'm guessing the tank coffin has taken on water and that is another problem altogether.
Aqua stopped using a removal coffin cover in the mid 90s (you know that already) and tank replacement then required the cutting of the deck to access the tank. They left a 'shadow seam" in the approximate area of the old cover but that was for show. Most tank covers experienced decay due to improper sealing of the deck access plates. There are a number of cover repairs in the forum and they are very straight forward in that respect.
The rotted wood on the tank top touching the aluminum surface ain't good. It leads to "crevice corrosion" as does water in the coffin itself that finds its way between the mounting straps. That stated, since the deck is cut, I would remove the wood, drain the tank and lift it out of the coffin. If you find no corrosion present, you can remount the tank correctly otherwise it will need replacement.
Typical tank sitting in water present in coffin:
https://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=4608.msg30182#msg30182
The seats and "cooler/bait well" areas are molded and you should not need to remove these. Check the seat mounts. I can't remember if they had a sandwich of plywood underneath for mounting purpose. You can access those through the bait/cooler hatches.
The transom may be composite. There may be wood in the upper areas on each side but Aqua switched to composite pour again in the mid 90s.
This is a start.
Good luck. :thumright:
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Thanks for the advice. I contacted the PO - apparently an owner previous to him had cut the deck for reasons unknown. The PO said he thought it had come from the factory like that (-nope-). I cut out the wooden supports and pulled the tank after draining 75 gallons of fuel, which appeared to be gasoline premixed with 2-stroke oil. There was no water or sediment in the fuel and no sign of corrosion on the tank interior.
Tank appears to be original, with build date of May 1995. It is coated with what looks like a zinc primer.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_8774.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23217&title=img-8774&cat=500)
There were no signs of corrosion or previous immersion, as shown here (with some water condensed on the tank bottom exterior). The neoprene pads were all firmly attached.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_8776.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23220&title=img-8776&cat=500)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_8763.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23215&title=img-8763&cat=500)
All the hoses and clamps appeared new, and a valve for one of the fuel lines had been replaced.
Except for the leaves and pine needles, the tank compartment looked great. There were PVC pipe drains forward and aft. The tank straps had been removed. The base on which the tank rests was solid and intact.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_8758.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23213&title=img-8758&cat=500)
After inspecting the tank, I am inclined to just seal up (with fiberglass) the coffin lid rather than trying to convert it to an easily removeable piece. I would say this installation is confirmation of the Pascoe method of tank installation (https://www.yachtsurvey.com/fueltank.htm).
I took a closer look at the area under the seats and cooler/baitwells. The deck transitions to about ½ inch of solid fiberglass in that area, and there is no wood underneath them, nor is there any support from below.
Transition from the helm seat support (on right) to deck. Note the absence of wood under the seat platform.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_8742.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23218&title=img-8742&cat=500)
The plywood in the decking is damp and completely rotted, I could insert the shaft of a screw driver all the way in and pull out squares of rotted wood.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/AS_helm_deck.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23221&title=as-helm-deck&cat=500)
I am convinced that the water in the deck came from infiltration at the site of the coffin lid cutout, which had almost no sealant around the cut. Why the deck was cut in the first place remains a mystery. Perhaps it was a misguided attempt to reduce the “bounciness” of the deck that is known to occur in Explorers due to suboptimal assembly techniques (as documented by seabob4 here: https://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=6124.msg42196#msg42196). The overlying fiberglass and gelcoat are in very good condition, and I assume the fiberglass under the plywood is in good condition, too, so why not cut out the deck, remove the bottom fiberglass and rotted coring, install new coring and glass under the top fiberglass layer, and re-install it? I haven’t seen any rebuilds on Classicaquasport.com that did this, but I did find this approach documented on another site (https://www.floridainshoreangler.com/tactics/fishing-structure/how-to-pier-fishing?id=343). This would be easier in my boat because I would not have to remove the deck in one piece. Better yet, why not cut the top layer of the deck, pull it away from the underlying rotted plywood, replace the coring, and reinstall the fiberglass/gelcoat? I found one tutorial on BoatworksToday (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAtjHjJhBV0&ab_channel=BoatworksToday) where Andy did just that, although I think his technique could be improved upon. I believe the first approach would be useful if the foam under the deck needs to be removed, but the second approach would be preferable if the foam were to be left in place. The foam lateral to the stringers on my boat seems dry, but I intend to confirm this at my next work visit.
Your comments about these options for deck coring replacement would be appreciated.
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There is another way to repair the deck. Copy and paste the following into a google search box - injecting resin into boat deck +site:classicaquasport.com/smf
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I reviewed that technique and decided the coring was too far gone for it to be effective. Thanks for the suggestion, though.
M
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Here's an example of epoxy injection failure when tried on a badly rotted deck. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWQRZpah_0M&ab_channel=SailboatCareandRepair
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You are correct in that there are really no (maybe one if I looked hard enough) Genmar deck rebuilds here but the method of stripping the old sandwich of plywood/balsa off the gelcoat top deck is common when dealing with the old style removable tank coffin cover. There are several documented here that utilize this method just on a smaller scale. In your case, that would be what I would do.
Good luck. :thumright:
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replaced a large section of rotten core on my Expolorer. cutout the top piece of deck with a multi tool, scraped out all the wet core, replaced with marine ply (epoxied in with G-Flex) and then put back the piece of fiberglass deck that i cut out. It's actually a real simple process, but is alot of work.
The only problem I'm dealing with now is the seam printing through (cracking). I will have to sand off the gelcoat I used to cover the seams, epoxy a thin piece of fiberglass cloth and re-gel.
Getting the seams to look good is the most challenging imo, as it is a cosmetic and want it to look good.....I may just put some SeaDek over that entire area to cover it if the seams crack again.
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Good to hear that someone else has tried fixing the deck while leaving the bottom layer of the laminate. As best I can tell, the foam underneath my deck is dry, so I'm going to go with this technique. Thanks for the advice.
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I decided to completely remove the tank from the boat for a more thorough inspection and to facilitate work on the deck.
The 1-ton chain hoist was overkill for this task, as the tank weighs only about 150 lbs, but it did make things easier when working alone without a forklift for the removal. $51 with a coupon at Harbor Freight, you should get one.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_8804.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23222&title=img-8804&cat=500)
No evidence of corrosion on this tank. The neoprene strips on the bottom are intact, but the ones on the end of the tank have fallen off.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_8811.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23224&title=img-8811&cat=500)
There is some rotting of the fiberglass-encased plywood that serves as a platform for the fuel tank. I am toying with the idea of just installing a PVC board over this with some 5200, but that would reduce my clearance over the tank by the thickness of the plank. Should I cut out and replace the board, or just install something over it?
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_8809.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23223&title=img-8809&cat=500)
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It seems like the center section was not laminated with glass, correct. To answer your question, I would definitely get it out of there and replace it with same or composite material and glass it up solid. Considering its the base for the fuel tank to sit on, you don't want to have to ever get to it again. Your there already so might as well make it solid. It also acts a a mini bulkhead for the strength of the v. If you do decide to use plywood, make sure to glass both sides so it never gets water inside so it doesn't rot again.
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Is there a hole that anywhere in that space that goes down to the Bilge? just incase if water does get into the fuel tank area, it won't sit around in that area but rather, drain into the bilge......
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Is there a hole that anywhere in that space that goes down to the Bilge? just incase if water does get into the fuel tank area, it won't sit around in that area but rather, drain into the bilge......
So how this works (by design) is that water flows from the forward bilge through the tank coffin into the rear bilge compartment. The rotted section that was under the tank rides above the center line (keel) of the hull which allows water to pass underneath. Since this is connected from front to rear (through bulkhead openings, water can pass both ways.
The best way to ensure tank longevity is to keep the tank coffin as dry as possible. That means the coffin cover (removable on older models) is correctly sealed including any deck access plates. Second would be to reduce or eliminate water from passing through the coffin itself. When I replaced my tank in my 210, I plugged both holes fore and aft in the coffin. Of course there are bilge pumps in both the front and rear to drain any water from those compartments.
Looking at the tank pics, I would be suspect of the areas where the mounting straps came in contact with the tank and inspect these areas for pinhole corrosion that is cause by the water being trapped between the two surfaces.
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Capt. Bob,
If water gets through the access plate (the one over the Fuel sender for example), would that water just sit around the fuel tank with no where to go or are you saying it will flow out, due to the description you provided regarding the front and rear bilge?
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Yes, the tank compartment is connected to both forward and rear bilge compartments by PVC tubes. Currently, there is some water in the forward bilge that is the color of rotten wood. Due to the hull design, one must elevate the bow quite a bit to get that water to drain to the stern. There is a bilge pump in the forward compartment. I am inclined to follow Capt. Bob's advice to isolate the tank compartment from the forward and aft bilges, but I would like the option of draining the compartment to the stern if I get water intrusion in the future.
I was afraid you would say to replace the tank deck. I agree, it should be done. Now, I have some experience with repairing marine electrical and mechanical systems as well as gelcoat repair, but when it comes to actual fiberglass repair, my experience is ... zero. (Perhaps this will be a good project to learn on, since cosmesis will not be an issue.) I've got the tools to cut out and grind down the old platform. Assume that I will be replacing it with a 0.75x9.25-inch PVC board like this one: https://www.lowes.com/pd/Royal-Building-Products-0-75-in-x-9-25-in-x-12-ft-PVC-Trim-Board/5002027507 (https://www.lowes.com/pd/Royal-Building-Products-0-75-in-x-9-25-in-x-12-ft-PVC-Trim-Board/5002027507) reinforced with fiberglass, and that I will be using epoxy. What would you recommend for the fiberglass layup schedule?
M
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Can you take a pic of the bottom of the tank lid? On most there is endgrain balsa covered with fiberglass which tapers down to the bottom of the back (imagine the lid laying upside down). What you do is use a cutting wheel to cut through the taper where it meets the lid glass. Then pry the fiberglass and coring off the lid base glass. Grind the remnants from the lid base and then you can use whatever coring you desire (with the edges bevelled at a 45 degree angle) and then 2 layers of 1708 for stiffness.
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As previously noted, the tank lid was “repaired” by the PO, who glued with 5200 a piece of plywood between the two layers of fiberglass. I’m going to repair the tank lid as you describe later, but what I must do first is to repair the board underneath the tank. I’m thinking about scuffing up a PVC plank, wrapping it in fiberglass cloth/epoxy, and then tabbing it in place with additional layers of cloth. Would 1708 be OK for this, or would something else be preferable, as I have read that 1708 doesn’t wrap around edges very easily.
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Well, perhaps that question was a bit naive, like “could you teach me how to lay fiberglass?” I’ll be back in touch after I read this: https://www.westsystem.com/wp-content/uploads/Fiberglass-Manual-2015.pdf. (https://www.westsystem.com/wp-content/uploads/Fiberglass-Manual-2015.pdf.)
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Sorry, I should have gone back a page and saw the lid bottom. Are you going to use poly or epoxy on this boat repair? Yes, 1708 doesn't like to bend around sharp corners. You could use 1200 - doesn't have the CSM on it and should bend easier. If you don't have a good supplier around you we have US Composites down here on the east coast. They have a lot of stock, the freight can be brutal though for heavy gallons of supplies (bet I paid $500 or more in frieght over the years) - http://www.uscomposites.com/
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Capt. Bob,
If water gets through the access plate (the one over the Fuel sender for example), would that water just sit around the fuel tank with no where to go or are you saying it will flow out, due to the description you provided regarding the front and rear bilge?
Well if enough water got in then yes, it would its way out either to the front or back if the bulkhead passage were open. If the passages are connected with a continuous pipe then no.
My 91 passages were not connected so they could have drained and at the same time let water pass underneath the tank. The tank bottom support board was opened on each end (didn't run the length of the coffin). If the deck plates are properly sealed, very little water gets in. I open my plates and hatch when the boat is stored to allow air to enter and aid in evaporation. My setup is different than most as I have my batteries mounted below deck and forward of the tank.
This is the way they built them (Genmar) in the early 90s. I reduced the tank size and used the gained area in the coffin to mount the batteries. The black starboard is a false bulkhead between the tank and batteries. You can see the factory passage at the bottom. It has an expandable plug with sealant.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/Cleaned_battery_housing_91_WAC.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=6177&title=cleaned-battery-housing-91-wac&cat=500)
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Rick, for the tank support, I expect to use PVC board and epoxy. For the deck, it’ll probably be Coosa and epoxy, and repairing the cut lines with gel coat over epoxy. I’m still working out how best to clamp the deck. Today I started poking a welding rod under the top deck skin to determine where I’m going to make the cuts. My goal is to cut about one inch inside of where the inner and outer deck layers are fused.
That’s a really clean tank compartment, Capt Bob.
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Thanks Capt. Bob for the detailed explanation.
I like what you've done with the tank compartment and using that space for batteries.
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Rick, for the tank support, I expect to use PVC board and epoxy. For the deck, it’ll probably be Coosa and epoxy, and repairing the cut lines with gel coat over epoxy. I’m still working out how best to clamp the deck. Today I started poking a welding rod under the top deck skin to determine where I’m going to make the cuts. My goal is to cut about one inch inside of where the inner and outer deck layers are fused.
That’s a really clean tank compartment, Capt Bob.
Personally, I think epoxy is unnecessary in most cases, especially when using Coosa (because it works so well with Polyester Resin). West System literature looks to be a good resource but likely has a slight bias because epoxy is what I think they sell most of or maybe even don’t sell polyester resin at all. You mention Gelcoat over Epoxy which although debated in recent years with prep to “make it work”, has always been an incompatible bond because of amine blush from the epoxy and the different composition of materials. When using epoxy, stick with epoxy based paints. If gelcoat (a polyester resin based material) is your preference for a finish, stick with polyester resin for repairs. Polyester resin catalyzes with MEKP (1-2%) the same as gelcoat. My opinion (if trying to save cost and gelcoat is your preference) would be using polyester resin and either honeycomb coring (laminated properly/heavy), divinycell (4lb), or coosa (15-20lb). Lastly, your choice of resin might slightly dictate your choice of fiberglass materials. If you go with epoxy resin, a cloth material (w/o the mat…1700) will be easier to use. On the other hand, if you choose polyester resin, you will need the matt on the surface you are bonding to (coring, existing prepped glass, etc.) AND on either side of your biaxial or woven glass when its laid up.
With all that being said, I will say that epoxy has must better bonding strength (like 10x or something that of Poly) and waterproofing so it’s a great product for DIYers that inevitably don’t prep the surfaces properly or also want to use plywood as their choice of coring materials.
Lastly, finding a local supplier can also make a difference in what you have available to you because as Rickk indicated, freight charges can be pretty brutal.
Hope that helps.
Surely that’s a lot to take in and I was in your shoes at one point till I dove in only a few years ago. Feel free to ask questions and if hopping on a phone call helps down the road, I would glad to help further.
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Thanks for the detailed advice and generous offer. I guess am not so concerned about overlaying epoxy with polyester because I have done that routinely when filling screw holes for gel coat repair with good results, but I am still a ways from deciding. My plan is to peel off the top layer of the deck, remove the rotted core, and do a dry fit using inexpensive foam insulation board, which should help me determine how much core material I need to order. With a local distributor (Advanced Plastics) right down the road from the Coosa plant in Pelham, I’m hoping I won’t get killed with shipping charges on this project.
M
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The boat cleaned up nicely with some scrubbing and pressure washing. I think having it under a pine tree for more than a decade helped preserve the gel coat (while promoting deck rot).
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_8834.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23241&title=img-8834&cat=500)
I pushed a welding rod through the rotted deck core to determine where the deck was glassed to the liner. My plan was to cut the top layer of the deck about ½ inch medial to that joint so I could slip some core material past the cut line on reassembly. I took some measurements of the tank compartment, too.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_8840.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23244&title=img-8840&cat=500)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_8839.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23243&title=img-8839&cat=500)
Here are the cutting tools I had available for today’s tasks. I found the angle grinder with a diamond blade to have the best combination of ease of use and cutting ability. I used the oscillating saw with a straight blade (not shown) to finish cutting at corners. None of these tools was very good for cutting curves, though. I should have brought my Dremel tool with the thin router bit.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_8835.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23242&title=img-8835&cat=500)
Before cutting the deck, I removed the rotted board that supported the tank. Note that the fiberglass tabbing does not extend all the way across the board to the other side. I don't think this board had any structural function except to help hold the fuel tank in place.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_8843.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23245&title=img-8843&cat=500)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_8846.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23247&title=img-8846&cat=500)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_8848.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23251&title=img-8848&cat=500)
The board came out easily once I cut the fiberglass tabbing with the angle grinder. I'll grind down the edges later. Note to boat builders: coating marine plywood with a thin layer of polyester resin does not prevent the board from rotting.
Next step: Cutting the deck.
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Here is the first piece of the deck opened up. It came up easily except for one corner near the fish box that had been filled in with fiberglass instead of the plywood squares. The builders used a bit of end-grain balsa at the lateral edge of the decking (arrows). I guess it was easier (and faster) to break off a small piece of balsa than to saw a thin strip of plywood. All the wood was damp and foul-smelling, and it crumbled to the touch.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/AS_decking_opened.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23250&title=as-decking-opened&cat=500)
I was successful in leaving a recess at the lateral edge of the deck for later core insertion, but I will probably have to clean that up with the grinder. After removing the first piece of deck, it became apparent that the rot extended all the way to the scupper at the stern. I’ll have to cut that out another day.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_8852.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23249&title=img-8852&cat=500)
After removing the rotten wood, I’m going to let the fiberglass layers dry out and then sand/grind them smooth.
Next step: more deck cutting.
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You're doing a great job! Looks pretty similair to how mine did.....Let me know what you do (or what you're going to do) to repair the seams after you place back the old non-skid you cut out. My seams cracked/printed through after 1 year, so i'm going to grind them down, fill with GFlex epoxy then gelcoat when it warms up here...Hopefully that will do the job.
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Coming along! Letting it dry it will help and ensure that any moisture doesn't get locked into any hard to reach areas. I don't know this hull very well and its hard for me to see the photos capt bob posted but couldn't that forward drain line be ran underneath the fuel tank subfloor so there isn't open ends in that area? Not sure if that makes sense.
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Ulysses, there are PVC pipes that connect the tank compartment to the forward and aft bilges. The forward bilge is quite deep due to the hull design, and I was unable to drain it completely by elevating the bow. There is always a little water there. I’m going to close the tubes with removable plugs to isolate the tank compartment.
rh, what did you do to seal/cover the cut line after you reattached the deck? Did you install the core so it runs under the cut, or did the edge of the core line up with the saw kerf? I’m thinking the fiberglass on either side of the cut should be ground down, a strip of fiberglass cloth and some polyester resin applied and covered with gel coat. I am not aware of flexible poly resin (glass plus resin is supposed to flex some), but flexible epoxy might be another option - you’ll have to top coat it with something, though.
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I used 3M Marine High Strength filler (vinyl ester with glass strands) to cover the cutline after reattaching the deck. I believe using this 3M filler was a mistake for that application.
The edge of the core lines up with the saw kerf...That was filled with GFlex epoxy...a good epoxy imo. I used that to epoxy the core and the deck.
I think I will do as you recommend, grind down the cut line and epoxy(w/ gflex) in a strip of fiberglass...once it dries, sand it with 80 grit and apply gel coat. I called West Systems and they said gelcoat will adhere to Gflex epoxy as long as you sand it with 80 grit to create a mechanical bond.
Let me know how you make out once you get to that stage as you'll probably get to that point before I do as the weather is not going to be conducive to that for another month or so....
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Demolition continues with opening up the deck and removing the rotted coring. Removal of the back corners was particularly tricky due the curves. I used the angle grinder and a Dremel tool with cutting blades.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/AS_rear_deck_removed.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23287&title=as-deck-removal&cat=500)
I am hesitant to open up the deck at the helm since it is a small area that is fairly well supported around the edges. I bent a piece of electrical service grounding wire and started scraping out the coring. This area is the most severely rotted, and the material is coming out in shreds.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/AS_front_deck_core_removal.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23286&title=as-deck-removal&cat=500)
Here is the deck as open as I'm planning to do it. The coring around the livewell at the stern seems firm; it was isolated from the rest of the deck and apparently did not suffer any water intrusion.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/AS_deck_removed_front_view.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23285&title=as-deck-removal&cat=500)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/AS_deck_removal.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23284&title=as-deck-removal&cat=500)
Next step: Grinding off the resin lines and wood bits that are attached to the fiberglass.
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did you cut out that piece of PVC pipe that connects the forward bilge to aft bilge? or was it like that already (how it looks now)?
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That’s what the pipes looked like when I removed the tank. I don’t plan to connect them because I want to keep the option of draining the tank compartment to the posterior bilge. I’m going to install plugs in the bilges to keep them from draining into the tank compartment while underway. Any water in the forward bilge will have to be removed by the pump there. There will always be a little water up there (presumably coming from the anchor locker and elsewhere), so I’ll probably pour in a cap of bleach or lemon cleaner occasionally. One day I’ll deal with that water more definitively, but that’s pretty low on the priority list.
M
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Thanks for the info....keep posting photo's of your progress!
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I prepared the fiberglass layers for new coring by sanding down the resin nibs and plywood fragments with a random orbit sander using 60-grit sandpaper. A shop-vac hose attached to the sander did a good job of collecting the fiberglass dust. This picture shows what it looked like after the initial sanding was completed. Note that the outlines of the plywood squares are still visible - this is a very thin layer of wood that is completely imbedded in the resin; in some areas the glass fibers and wood fibers are intermixed. I’m not planning to remove this layer, but I will come back with an oscillating sander and an angle grinder with a flap-sanding wheel to finish off the edges and corners. There is no trace of the edge-grain balsa that was used around the edges of the core.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_8995.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23355&title=as-explorer-pics-4-12-23&cat=500)
This is a ¾-inch-thick board laid against the cut line of the deck. My plan is to slip the new core between upper and lower layers of fiberglass, and it looks like I’ll need to use 5/8-inch or even ½-inch-thick material to achieve this. Although it’s hard to accurately measure the thickness of the old core material due to the water damage, it looks like it was nominal ¾-inch plywood, or about 23/32-inch thick.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_8996.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23356&title=as-explorer-pics-4-12-23&cat=500)
I took this opportunity to cut some templates out of scrap cardboard. I’m not trying for an exact fit here but rather to get an idea of how much core material I will need to order.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_8986.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23354&title=as-explorer-pics-4-12-23&cat=500)
Even though they were in decent shape, I decided to replace the old neoprene strips with PVC molding glued on with 3M 5200. There were some spots where the neoprene adhesive had failed, and that was a potential pathway for moisture to damage the metal in the future. I’m going to spend some time thoroughly cleaning the outside of the tank and touching up the paint with automotive primer or something similar.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_8982.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23353&title=as-explorer-pics-4-12-23&cat=500)
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My thoughts are that you'll be lamming over and up the sides a little bit to tie everything in securely. With that in mind I'd look for 5/8" and lam the bottom of wood with a layer of 1708 and the top with 2 layers. You can do a test lam with scrap and set it to check thickness. I think the last upper layer could be an entire 3/4 oz CSM or 2 to tie it all in across the boat.
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I like the idea of a dry fit to test the install. I’ll do that after I sand the top layer of the deck.
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looking great! I used 5/8 plywood. just make sure you let that epoxy resin absorb into whatever core you use before you put it down. Balsa or any wood will absorb alot so use plenty, let it soak in, then use more.
I'm redoing my seams at the moment. I am glassing over them in with long 1" strips. imo, don't use any masking tape....It becomes very difficult to get off...
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Thanks for that tip. In my experience doing gel coat repair, I do use masking tape, but I sand off any gel coat overlying the tape before removing it. What kind of strips and resin are you using to cover the seams?
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yeah I also use masking tape when gel coating....but I used masking tape to prepare the edges for applying the glass strips and resin. Once that stuff dries on that masking tape its so hard to get that tape off. I will have to lightly sand it off. It would have been better to just wipe off any excess resin that spilled over with acetone and a towel.
I used Total Boat Epoxy Resin and Fast hardner. 5:1 ratio. (no thickener) I think its pretty good and from what I read, very comparable to West Systems...slightly cheaper too. For the glass strips, I used "woven" as opposed to "chopped strand" I think it will definitely work as it appears to have adhered really well....I just have to prepare it now to be gel coated.
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I took the tank home so I could clean and inspect it between trips to the boat shed. I found a few spots of corrosion underneath the rubber strips. This is the deepest one, a bit less than half-way through the metal.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/image1102.jpeg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23424&title=as-explorer-pics-5-3-23&cat=500)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/image0_3_.jpeg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23423&title=as-explorer-pics-5-3-23&cat=500)
I was planning to fill these in with J-B Weld, which I have on hand and is listed for use on aluminum. Should I be using something else?
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before coming up w a way to 'fix' those spots, I'd have the tank pressure tested. Very small amount of pressure is used and it needs to hold pressure to be sure you don't have any pin holes hiding somewhere. In the pic you sent, the furthest right corroded spot looks like it could have some pin holes? Or maybe thats just little black flecks of the neoprene?
If the pressure test passes then move on to protecting these spots. I've used JB Weld to glue a thin strip of anodized aluminum over sore spots, then coal tar epoxy or similar coating. Just be sure the prep gets it hospital clean.
This site has a good read on the different grades of aluminum, and a lot of cool stuff in general.
https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/mepages/aluminfo.php
https://www.aircraftspruce.com/
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I would just buy a poly tank....avoid any problems down the road. you do not want to have to cut into that deck again after all that hard work.
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D: That's the best reference I have encountered regarding aluminum alloys. Thanks for that. The black marks are indeed flecks of rubber, there are no pin holes going all the way through the metal. I agree that pressure testing is a good idea. I'm going to repair the pitting, test the tank, and then give it a final coating of ... something. Probably just some zinc primer, which seems to be what was used on it at the factory.
RH: If I can get the tank to pass a pressure test, I think it is worth saving, although I am going to make a final decision about that only I have inspected the tank's interior. I plan to convert the fuel tank compartment lid to one that can be removed without cutting (like Capt Bob's). I haven't been able to find any reference that shows how to do that, so if anyone has one, I would appreciate their sharing it. Seabob said that at the Genmar plant they would occasionally cut the deck to remove a fuel tank and then install cleats before reinstalling the lid, but he didn't provide any details about what they did after that. My guess is they just ground down the gelcoat, applied some glass reinforced filler, and then reapplied gelcoat. I'm going to try to do better than that.
M
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Grinding the fiberglass deck pieces continues. I found that a grinding wheel on my 4-inch angle grinder worked well on the underside of the top layer.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/AS_deck_pic_5-14-23.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23472&title=as-deck-pic-5-14-23&cat=500)
I cut some ½-inch – 5/8-inch spacers on my table saw to determine the proper thickness of coring material.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/AS_deck_spacers.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23470&title=as-deck-spacers&cat=500)
A spacing of five-eighths of an inch resulted in a good match at the cut lines of the deck.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/AS_deck_spacers_2.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23471&title=as-deck-spacers-2&cat=500)
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Looking good :thumleft:
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I cleaned off the tank bottom by applying Goo Gone and carefully scraping with a razor blade. My wife remarked how nice the bottom of the tank looked after I was done, but the adhesive wouldn’t come off in two places. More careful inspection of those areas revealed that this tank had been repaired at some point in the past (Figure). Now it becomes clear why the deck had been cut open.
Tank bottom. Note remaining adhesive (probably polyurethane), and a small aluminum fillet (arrow). The paint color was slightly different in this area.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/AS_tank_repair_1_with_arrow1.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23515&title=as-tank-repair-1-with-arrow1&cat=500)
At this point I figured it would be unwise to proceed without performing a static pressure test on this tank. In most online discussions I read, the boat owner takes the tank (or the boat) to a facility for this testing, but I would strongly encourage anyone reading this to do this test yourself if you have access to an air compressor, if only to be able to confirm that your boatyard is doing the test properly (more about this later). At the very least, I suggest you read the definitive reference on pressure testing and just about all things related to marine fuel systems here (the description of static pressure testing starts on page 100): https://www.uscgboating.org/assets/1/AssetManager/ABYC.1002.01.pdf. If you want to watch a YouTube video about pressure testing, this is the best one I found: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDDDjp-4cZ0&ab_channel=SVCSkallywags. Most of the other videos (and frankly, most of the info I found on online discussion boards) had some significant limitations or errors. Here is the setup I used, which utilizes an inexpensive gauge obtained on Amazon and some brass fittings that I bought at my local hardware store.
My pressure testing apparatus. Note that the ABYC protocol for static pressure testing requires a gauge with a maximum range no greater than three times the test pressure, so for a pressure of 3.5 psi, a 10 psi gauge is the maximum allowed. The minimum test pressure per ABYC is 3 psi; the manufacturer of this tank originally tested it to 4 psi.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/AS_tank_repair_21.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23516&title=as-tank-repair-21&cat=500)
I connected my testing apparatus, and after turning my air compressor down to about 10 psi, I slowly inflated the tank to 3.5 psi. I immediately got an unpleasant surprise, as the pressure fell as soon as I closed the pressure valve. One of the fuel line valves was audibly leaking through the lumen of the valve and I couldn’t maintain pressure. I switched the testing line over to the bad valve, and although there was still a slow leak at the valve handle, I found that I could maintain pressure without difficulty. One lesson I learned here was being able to maintain pressure doesn’t rule out the presence of a leak.
A slow leak in the fuel line valve. This fitting will need to be replaced. (The fuel sender hole was sealed with a scrap of aluminum for this test.)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/AS_tank_repair_31.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23517&title=as-tank-repair-31&cat=500)
After spraying the entire tank with soapy water, I found another leak, right at the bottom of tank at the stern end.
Another leak.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/AS_tank_repair_41.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23518&title=as-tank-repair-41&cat=500)
Reaming out this hole with my pocket knife confirmed that the corrosion had occurred on the inside of the tank, probably from water that had collected at the bottom of the tank when the boat has stored with the bow up.
The hole was more apparent after the corroded area was reamed out.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/AS_tank_repair_51.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23519&title=as-tank-repair-51&cat=500)
Next: repair or replace?
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My vote would definitely be to replace. It’s a large up front coat but the safety, peace of mind, and longevity that you’ll get out it will far outweigh the potential savings from patching it. If there is internal damage, it will make it nearly impossible to repair from the outside properly. I’m not sure how the poly Moeller tanks hold up in larger deeper vee hulls but might be something to check into. Just my $.02
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There are some good reasons why I should replace this tank: (1) Below-deck tanks are hard to service, especially larger ones, and new tanks are less likely to develop problems in the near future than ones that have been repaired; (2) I could have a new tank fabricated a bit narrower than the original, making the deck repair easier; (3) I’m going to have to replace the fuel sender gasket and one of the fuel valves, and there is no telling how much longer the sender will continue to function; (4) the manufacturer of this tank recommends against repairing it (no surprise there).
That being said, I’m going to repair the tank. I’m planning to fix the deck so I can pull the tank out without cutting fiberglass, and I’m going to replumb the bilge drains to minimize the chance of any tank problems in the future. I got the name of a welder from a company that repairs fuel tankers, and he agreed to do the repair. I decided to have him fill in the pitted areas, too. Here is how the repair looked when he was done.
A plate of scrap aluminum has been welded over the hole. Note the rivet in the center of the plate – ouch! The welder claimed he hadn’t noticed that.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/AS_tank_repair_6.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23525&title=as-tank-repair-6&cat=500)
The welder drilled out the rivet and filled in the hole while I waited. He then pressure tested his repair by having his assistant hold a rag over the fuel sender hole while he blew air through one of the fuel valves by touching his air compressor hose (with pressure set to 100 psi) to the end of the fuel valve – no fancy testing gear needed! (I repeated the pressure test when I got the tank home.)
In preparation for applying PVC strips to the bottom of the tank, I ground down any aluminum fillets that looked like they would be covered by the strips. I then sprayed on some automotive zinc primer followed by some clear lacquer (it’s what I had in my spray can inventory). Here is what it looked like after all this.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/as_tank_repair_10.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23526&title=as-tank-repair-10&cat=500)
Next step: applying the PVC strips.
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I had to move the tank from the hot garage to the cool basement because daytime temperatures were exceeding the recommended maximum for application of the 3M 5200. I turned off the basement dehumidifier, since 5200 is moisture-cured and the recommended humidity is at least 50%. Here's how the tank looked after I was done. This task required two 10-ounce cartridges. The blue painter's tape is being used to keep the PVC strips in place while the adhesive sets up.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/AS_tank_repair_7-5-23.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23527&title=as-tank-repair-7-5-23&cat=500)
Twelve hours after application, the 5200 remains sticky and the strips can still be moved a bit, but the tape is holding them in place. The manufacturer lists the tack-free time of 5200 as 48 hours with full cure at 7 days.
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Indeed, 5200 takes a long time to fully cure, even in Florida heat and humidity.
Lookin' good. :thumright:
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Came out great :thumleft:
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With the 5200 curing, it was time to start thinking about how to reinstall the tank. In the photo below, on the left is a piece of cardboard that approximates the cross section of the tank. Note how rubber strips applied to the bulkheads contact the tank all the way down the sides to the lower edges (arrows). The photo on the right shows my son grinding down the aluminum fillets that filled areas of corrosion. Most of the fillets (and areas of corrosion) are on the very bottom of the tank, but one (as indicated by the arrow) is on an edge that was in contact with a rubber bulkhead strip. Clearly, running rubber strips all the way down the bulkheads promotes corrosion near the bottom of the tank where the strips get wet. I won’t be doing that again.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/AS_tank_repair_7-11-23_3_.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23553&title=as-tank-repair-7-11-23-3&cat=500)
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Another issue I am struggling with is how to drain the tank compartment. At present, there is one PVC pipe at the bow end that connects to the anterior bilge compartment, and another pipe at the stern for drainage to the bilge at the transom. I believe Capt. Bob plugged those pipes from inside the tank compartment, but I’ve seen rebuilds where those two pipes were connected so that water from the anterior bilge can drain directly to the transom. Apparently, it takes quite a bit of bow-up angle to get the anterior compartment to drain like that, but one might achieve that angle when the boat is getting up on plane. Since I have removed the tank and the platform that supports it, I could install a connection without much difficulty. What I don’t like about that setup is it leaves the tank compartment itself without any drainage. Ideally, I would like to run a pipe under the tank platform to connect the anterior and posterior bilge compartments and install a second drainpipe at the stern of the tank compartment that I could plug or open as needed. However, I don’t know how to accomplish that. When I run a coat hanger through the pipe at the stern of the tank compartment, it feels like the pipe is about 12 inches long. Any advice about this would be appreciated.
M
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I've been putting off trying salvage the fuel compartment non-skid for a while, but with the recent purchase of some Coosa board and the arrival of some supplies from Jamestown Distributors, it was time. A previous owner had glued the nonskid to some plywood with a polyurethane adhesive. After an unsuccessful attempt to soften the adhesive with acetone, I sprung for a pricey can of DeBond (currently $35.70 for a 10 ounce can on Amazon). It does work, but I found that some effort is still needed to get the surfaces to separate - spray the glue with DeBond, exert some traction with a 1x4 board, and repeat until done (see photo below). I used a long piece of 1/8-inch thick steel with the end ground down to a chisel point to help the process along. Most of the DeBond was used up on this. After the gel coat and underlying fiberglass was peeled off, I removed the adhesive with a sharp chisel.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/AS_deck_7-23-23_1.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23561&title=as-deck-7-23-23-1&cat=500)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/AS_deck_7-23-23_2.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23562&title=as-deck-7-23-23-2&cat=500)
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You already know this but you can use the plywood as a template but I would recommend beveling the edges of the coosa at 45 degrees to facilitate bending the 1708 over the edges. That may require cutting the coosa about 1/2" smaller all around. Are you using epoxy? That would really stiffen this up.
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Thanks for the advice. Yes, I'm going to be using epoxy for this part of the project, along with 1/2-inch Coosa Bluewater 20 (I wanted the 26, but my local supplier doesn't carry that grade in 1/2-inch). I plan to dress the edges of the Coosa with a router using a roundover bit and then laminate the board with 1708 to the desired thickness before attaching the nonskid with epoxy.
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once you have that piece of non-skid all epoxied back in, i strongly recommend glassing over the seams or else they will print thru. You would have to sand/grind gelcoat around the seams down to the fiberglass of course so that the glass and resin will adhere.
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Thanks for the advice. Yes, I'm going to be using epoxy for this part of the project, along with 1/2-inch Coosa Bluewater 20 (I wanted the 26, but my local supplier doesn't carry that grade in 1/2-inch). I plan to dress the edges of the Coosa with a router using a roundover bit and then laminate the board with 1708 to the desired thickness before attaching the nonskid with epoxy.
I would use a skill saw and tilt the blade to 45 degrees.
Here is an example of my rebuild of a casting deck hatch re-coring. A good tool to have if you're going to be doing a bit of this is a digital scale. Cut and weigh the cloth and divide the weight by 3 to figure out the amount of resin/hardener.
Cut the coosa, bevel it and then rough cut the 1708. Fold up the layers of cloth and weigh them. Mine weighed 49.3 oz but I rounded up to 56 oz since I knew I have other stuff to use the resin on, like make some thickened resin to trowel the backer to the lid.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1141.JPG) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9358&title=cimg1141&cat=646)
The do a wet on wet of the lams of cloth
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1143.JPG) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9360&title=cimg1143&cat=646)
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Thanks for the formula. I'm not sure about cutting the Coosa at 45 degrees, though. I want to reinstall the fuel tank compartment hatch to be removable in the future, like Capt Bob's. For that, I was planning to fabricate a lip around the edge of the compartment (using either fiberglass or aluminum) that the hatch would rest on. I don't see how cutting a 45-degree angle on the hatch cover would help with that design.
M
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Usually the core doesn't go to the edge of the hatch. There is usually an inch+ gap, so that allows the 1708 to roll down to the lid and become part of the lid. See the above picture, the lid still has the lip. Of course it's your choice and design.
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Thanks for explaining. My hatch doesn't have a fiberglass lip because it was cut out of the deck to access the fuel tank, so I'll have to work around that.
M
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The demolition phase continues. I cut a hole in the back of the fishbox with my angle grinder and an air saw to access the bilge – a modification previously described by Pete here: https://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=6311.0 (or you can search for “fishbox drain project”.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_9698.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23581&title=img-9698&cat=500)
Looks like there is a lot of work to be done back there. I see a bilge pump that has been disconnected, a float switch whose leads are falling apart, a thru-hull valve that hasn’t been closed since installation, and some stout wires hanging loose with ends free. If anyone can identify that flat gray wire just to right of the float switch, I would appreciate it.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_9700.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23582&title=img-9700&cat=500)
I’m going to be installing the “Innovative Boat Hatch Access Panel 520-603 | 12 x 16 Inch Artic White” (GLS Stock: 1032308) that I got from Great Lakes Marine, but for now I’m leaving the panel off to maximize access.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_9712.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23583&title=img-9712&cat=500)
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:thumright:
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Except for the tank repair, I’ve been in demolition mode for the past seven months, but that changes now. I cut a template for the fuel tank deck board from some scrap plywood, fitted it to the hull, and then used it as a guide to cut the Coosa board.
Plywood template in place.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/AS_tank_deck_template.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23616&title=as-tank-deck-template&cat=500)
I used my router with a carbide chamfer bit to duplicate the angle of the sides of the board, and I rounded off the front and back with a roundover bit. This material was easy to cut and mill with conventional tools, about like wood.
Coosa board cut and ready for fiberglass.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/AS_tank_deck_replacement_1.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23614&title=as-tank-deck-replacement-1&cat=500)
Since the original deck board was ¾" thick and the Coosa board was ½", I built up the board with 1708 fiberglass cloth and West System 105/206 epoxy. I have no experience with laying fiberglass, so I figured this was a good part of the rebuild to learn on since no one would ever see it. I laid two layers of 1708 on the bottom of the Coosa and let it cure for a few days; then I flipped it over, laid three more layers on the top surface, and while the top layers were starting to gel, I wet out the hull (previously washed, sanded, and wiped down with acetone) with epoxy and came back with more epoxy thickened with colloidal silica. I then installed the (still tacky) tank platform, wet out more 1708, and laid it over the board. When I had about half of the board covered, I ran out of epoxy. This wasn’t all bad, because by this time the tank compartment was a sticky mess, and it’s probably better to fiberglass half the deck board, let it cure, and then glass the other half. I carefully weighed down the platform with a couple of concrete blocks and stopped for the day. The next morning the epoxy had cured enough to walk on. There was a noticeable flex of the part of the board not yet covered with the 1708.
Tank platform partially glassed in. I had left a thin rim of the original glass mat to make it easier to fit the new board into place.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/AS_tank_deck_replacement_2.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23615&title=as-tank-deck-replacement-2&cat=500)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/AS_tank_deck_replacement_31.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23618&title=as-tank-deck-replacement-31&cat=500)
By using undersized Coosa board for this project, I can fine-tune the final core thickness with fiberglass, but this requires a lot of epoxy – I wound up needing more than a gallon just for this part of the project. Since I am past the heat of summer, I reordered an epoxy kit with the fast cure hardener (West System 205).
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With no more epoxy to complete the fuel deck installation, I decided to work on the steering. When I bought the boat, the steering wheel spun freely with no movement of the motors. I was hoping this was just from loss of hydraulic fluid, so I ordered seal kits for the unit and obtained the installation instructions/owner’s manual for the unit (available here: https://www.seastarsolutions.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/296784at.pdf). The manual and every YouTube video I watched called for buying a connection kit for the fill port at the helm, attaching this to a bottle of Seastar hydraulic fluid, hanging the bottle upside down, and poking a hole in the bottom of the upturned plastic bottle to allow air to enter as the fluid flows into the fluid reservoir. The drainage ports for the cylinder at the stern are then opened after tubing is attached (some videos called for purchase of another kit for this), and the steering wheel is moved back and forth to allow the hydraulic fluid to flow through the system and expel air through the drainage ports. I thought there were several problems with this protocol:
1. It’s cumbersome. The manual explicitly states, “this procedure requires two people”.
2. I try to avoid buying special tools that I will use only once unless there are no alternatives. (I once rebuilt an outboard motor using a service manual that called for obtaining 25 special tools. I fabricated two of them and used standard tools for the rest.)
3. Seastar hydraulic fluid is currently selling for $32 per quart. In contrast, Dexron II automatic transmission fluid (ATF), which is specified for the hydraulic systems of my Yamaha outboards and Bennett trim tabs, sells for as little as $5 per quart. I wasn’t interested in running expensive fluid through the system only to have it leak out or be contaminated by old fluid still in the system. (By the way, the Seastar manual says, “Automatic transmission fluid Dexron II may be used in an emergency.”)
I ran across a video from another manufacturer that showed using a funnel to fill the reservoir. I had a small, translucent funnel that easily screwed into the threads of the reservoir, making an effective seal, and I attached some flexible tubing from my scrap collection to drain the cylinder. This system worked very well.
My reservoir fill setup. I kept the funnel about half-full of ATF as I turned the steering wheel back and forth to fill and purge the system.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/AS_steering_3.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23613&title=as-steering-3&cat=500)
After the system was filled and purged, the motors turned, but the helm reservoir immediately started to leak.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/AS_steering_1.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23612&title=as-steering-1&cat=500)
Replacing the seal at the steering wheel fixed this. There was no leakage from the cylinder at the stern, so I wasn’t going to change those seals yet, but since the hydraulic cylinder must be removed to access the steering tube zerc fittings of the starboard motor, I’ll probably change the seals when I grease the engine.
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My boat has been parked at my lake place 70 miles from home, and this has really slowed down my progress on this project. I checked the municipal ordinances for where I live, and there’s nothing that says you can’t park a boat in front of your house, so I did just that. It is so sweet being able to just walk down the driveway and work on the boat whenever I want! I’ve deferred further deck repair until the weather improves, and I decided to work on the motors. At first, they both required starting fluid to get them going, but after running them on gas mixed with Seafoam, they are working considerably better; however, the starboard engine was overheating, with very little water coming out of the confirmation stream (“pee hole”). The previous owner claimed to have changed the water pumps before selling me the boat, but one never knows about stories like that. The thermostat bolts did have fresh tool marks on them, and when I removed the thermostats, they appeared to be new, with no sign of buildup or blockage within the water jacket, so it was clear that some work had been done on the cooling system in the recent past. As best I could tell, cooling water for these engines enters the lower unit intakes and gets pumped up by the water pump to the thermostats, where it enters the engine’s water jacket and then exits through a pressure control valve (“poppet valve”) at the bottom of the cylinder head, finally going back down into the lower unit for exit through the propeller. The confirmation stream hose is adjacent to the poppet valve, which means that on this engine there could be a problem anywhere from the intake to the poppet valve. Before I pulled the lower unit, I decided to run the engines with a thermostat removed to see if water was making it up there.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/Engines_with_thermostats_removed.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23676&title=engines-with-thermostats-removed&cat=500)
On the left, water is pouring out of the port engine’s thermostat socket, but there is only a little steam coming out the starboard engine’s thermostat socket (right). This wasn't entirely bad news, as it meant the problem was not due to a blockage within the engine itself. However, when I removed the prop in preparation for pulling the lower unit, I found some fishing line wrapped around the prop shaft, and the prop shaft seal was leaking.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/1-24-24_damaged_water_pump.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23670&title=water-pump-and-seals&cat=500)
The water pump was completely fried, and the water tube connecting the water pump to the engine was filled with carbonized rubber from the impeller. After I removed the water pump, I pressure-tested the lower unit to find the drive shaft seal under the water pump had also been damaged. The only good news was when I drained the lower unit lube in preparation for the repair, there was no sign of water intrusion.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/1-24-24_drive_shaft_seal_leaking.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23677&title=1-24-24-drive-shaft-seal-leaking&cat=500)
Leaking drive shaft seal.
Although there is a special tool marketed for removing the drive shaft seals, it can be done with conventional tools and a little patience. Pulling the prop shaft seals is more challenging. The service manual calls for the prop shaft bearing carrier to be removed, but the ring nut that holds it in place wouldn’t budge when I tapped on it, and I wasn’t interested in buying the special wrench required to exert more torque on the nut, so I pulled the seals out using a modification of the method shown on this YouTube video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yo9oQZI3QPM&t=364s&ab_channel=JackedUpFishing. You basically screw drywall screws into the seals and pop them out with the bearing carrier in place. One problem with this method is if you damage the prop shaft while removing the seals, you must either polish out the scratch or replace the shaft – ouch! The other challenge is that the rubber seals have steel inserts, and I struggled to get the drywall screws to penetrate the steel insert. After I drilled small pilot holes in the seal, the drywall screws went right in (I used fine-thread screws), and the seals popped out just like in the video. Drilling the pilot hole is easier if you use a drill bit with a hex head, because it allows you to use a hex bit extension that will keep the drill from bumping against the prop shaft.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/1-24-24_prop_seal_removal_2.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23673&title=water-pump-and-seals&cat=500)
Old prop shaft seal removed.
Installing new prop shaft seals is straightforward. The service manual doesn’t call for any lube or glue to coat the rim of the seals, but I found plenty of YouTube videos where they used bellows glue or something similar, and I found remnants of adhesive around the old seals, so I rubbed on some liquid gasket compound, which I already had in my toolbox, around the new seals before pressing them into place. I should point out that with this method of prop shaft seal removal, the two O-rings that provide a seal between the bearing carrier and the lower casing are not replaced. I'm OK with that, as leakage at those sites are very uncommon.
Before I reinstalled the lower unit, I flushed out the engine via the flush hose attachment. Plenty of black particles initially ran out, but the water cleared after a few gallons of flush - see photos below.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/Flushing_engine_after_lower_unit_removed.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23678&title=flushing-engine-after-lower-unit-removed&cat=500)
After I reinstalled the lower unit and ran the engine, there was plenty of water coming out of the pee hole, and the starboard engine ran at the same temperature as the port engine, with no sign of lower unit lube leakage – problems solved.
M
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As much as I have enjoyed having my boat at my house, I miss not having it in a covered space where I could work on it rain or shine. A friend offered to let me keep it in a horse-barn/shed on his property 15 minutes from my house, and I readily accepted. There was only one catch: the clearance on the shed ceiling is about 10 feet, but my boat measures 11 feet 6 inches high on the trailer with the hard top. I hadn’t planned to remove the top, but the offer was too good to pass up.
After removing outriggers, antennas, and as much wiring as I could, I removed the screws and cut the caulking that attached the top to the underlying aluminum frame. The frame is through-bolted to the cabin by six bolts in front which are easily accessible, but to remove the eight rear bolts, I had to open up the panels that held the engine throttles on the right and a drink holder/storage compartment on the left. This also allowed me to pull out all the wiring that had been run through the tubing to the radios and a light on the top. Inspection of the frame during this process revealed a few areas of deep pitting and one crack - time to find another welder.
Since I had had a less-than-inspiring experience getting my fuel tank repaired, I was determined to find another welder. Fortunately, the Birmingham Boat Show was coming up, and though it was filled with ski-boats and pontoon party barges that were of no interest to me, I managed to get several recommendations from boat dealers for welders. After doing some random Internet searches for the places I had learned about, I called one shop, brought the frame over on a Friday afternoon, and got a call at 10 AM on Monday that the job was done.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/1-24-24_rail.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23680&title=1-24-24-rail&cat=500)
Here’s the crack in the frame.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/1-24-24_welding_shop.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23682&title=1-24-24-welding-shop&cat=500)
This is the shop I brought it to. As the sign says, cash or check only, shop rate prominently posted, a little rough around the edges – my kind of shop. The owner didn’t even ask me my name, he just wrote “Tower” and my phone number on a whiteboard. I had marked all the areas I wanted repaired with painters tape before I delivered the frame to the shop.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/1-24-24_rail_repair.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23681&title=1-24-24-rail-repair&cat=500)
Crack repaired. The owner said his son used a TIG welder. I was satisfied with their work and I recommend them. The hole on the upper left of the tubing is for a screw that holds the hard top in place. I'll probably have to re-tap that screw hole.
This welding shop is in northwest Alabama, a part of the state best known for coal mines and meth labs, but I wanted to check out one famous landmark there – Wesley’s Boobie Trap.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/1-24-24_Boobie_Trap.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23679&title=1-24-24-boobie-trap&cat=500)
Weslie's Boobie Trap in Dora, Alabama.
The place was closed, and it might be shut down permanently, although I noticed a young woman sitting in a car in the parking lot, perhaps a dancer waiting to start her shift? I didn't hang around to find out, but something behind the club caught my eye – a boat.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/1-25-24_Trophy_boat_in_Dora_AL.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23683&title=1-25-24-trophy-boat-in-dora-al&cat=500)
Boat behind Wesley’s Boobie Trap.
Here was a pocket offshore fishing boat like my Explorer, almost 300 miles from the coast; the sign on the side of the boat cabin said it had come from Lafayette, Louisiana. I suspect there is a certain “flow” of saltwater boats from the coast up to inland lakes as they age; after all, I found my own boat in central Mississippi. I’ve always liked the sexy Caroliina flare of Trophy boats, but those notorious Force outboards scream “cheap” , and the boat looks underpowered, too. Notice that there is a residential air conditioner installed above the cabin. Perhaps someone had been living in it, or possibly the boat has been used for brief liaisons by the customers of the Boobie Trap. I think that an efficient RV air conditioner coupled to solar cells and some high-capacity batteries could dramatically increase the popularity of walkaround cuddy-cabin boats. In any case, if you are looking for a challenging project boat, head for Wesley’s Boobie Trap in Dora, Alabama.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/1-24-24_shed_storage.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23684&title=1-24-24-shed-storage&cat=500)
Here is my friend with my boat tucked into its new storage spot. Note the horses in the background. I’ve been instructed to lure them away with some feed if they get too inquisitive.
M
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Installing Coosa board. Getting the edges to fit in between the layers of fiberglass required a lot of trimming and filing of the undersurface of the edges. I was initially using a hand file, but an angle grinder did the work much quicker.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/2-10-24_AS_deck_pic_21.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23696&title=2-10-24-as-deck-pics&cat=500)
I used three pieces per side and overlapped them at the edges with ½ inch rabbet joints.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/2-10-24_AS_deck_pic1.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23695&title=2-10-24-as-deck-pics&cat=500)
I had planned to purchase 5/8 inch thick Coosa board, but only ½ inch was available. It turns out this thickness is perfect for the task, as there is a thin layer of plywood completely encapsulated by the resin adherent to the fiberglass, and this would have been very tedious to grind off.
Dry fitting the deck – looking good so far.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/2-10-24_AS_deck_pic_51.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23699&title=2-10-24-as-deck-pics&cat=500)
When I cut into the top layer of the deck, I left the part at the helm intact and just scraped out the rotted wood with a bent metal rod and a large file. Now I am left with this space to fill. There is just enough left of the old resin to keep even ½ inch Coosa board from sliding in easily, and of course I can’t grind down the surfaces. I really don’t want to cut the deck open here; I suppose I could fill it with scrap pieces of Coosa and a lot of epoxy, but that seems like it would be a challenge to fill all the spaces with epoxy. What about using some 8-pound density pourable foam?
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/2-10-24_AS_deck_pic_41.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23698&title=2-10-24-as-deck-pics&cat=500)
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/2-10-24_AS_deck_pic_31.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23697&title=2-10-24-as-deck-pics&cat=500)
M
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Looks like you've made great progress. The coosa seems to be exactly what was needed and your craftsmanship is looking great.
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What about using some 8-pound density pourable foam?
Seems like this would work, just be sure it can expand out through the side and not blow up the deck. Expanding foam can do some real damage if it doesn't have a place to go. Maybe a few separate small pours would be safe, but now you're getting into as much work as custom fitting smaller pieces of coosa + thickened resin to fill the gap.
Have you figured out a way to get the foam deep into the cavity?
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Have you figured out a way to get the foam deep into the cavity?
I was thinking about pouring it through a funnel connected to a flexible tube. However, I would need to somehow tilt the boat bow-down to get the foam to flow correctly.
M
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I’ve been piddling around on this project until the weather and my schedule line up to finish the deck rebuild. I replaced the seals on the hydraulic steering, which stopped the leak at the stern. The manufacturer specifies some pricey hydraulic fluid (which they market @ $27 a quart at West Marine) for their unit, but I will continue to use ATF until I’m satisfied that all problems with the steering have been resolved. I run the engines every few weeks and consider it a victory when I can start them without using starting fluid. I’ve treated the engines with Seafoam a few times, and they do seem to be running more smoothly now, but they really need to be run in the water.
The previous owner said the trim tabs had never worked while he owned the boat, so I removed the tabs' hydraulic power unit, figuring that a failing seal had allowed the hydraulic fluid to leak out. The unit has a “quick connector” and is easily removed, and that is part of the problem with this system.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/4-3-24_Trim_tab_removal.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23824&title=4-3-24-trim-tab-removal&cat=500)
The hydraulic power unit is easily accessed at the stern.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/4-3-24_Trim_tab_quick_connector.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23823&title=4-3-24-trim-tab-quick-connector&cat=500)
Corroded connector and wiring for the trim tabs' hydraulic power unit. I suspect that quick connectors in the bilge never last long.
The pins were badly corroded, and all the wires on one part of the connector fell out when I tugged on it. The fluid reservoir was full with no sign of leakage, and I was hoping that just replacing the connector would fix the problem, but when I bench-tested the unit as per the manufacturer’s instructions, I found that although the solenoid valves functioned normally, the pump would operate in one direction but not the other. The Bennett technical support guy gave me some bad news – “one of the windings on your motor has failed”. There doesn’t seem to be an easy fix for this beyond replacing the motor, and the Bennett web site doesn’t list the motor as a separate replacement part, so I would be replacing the entire power unit. If I can’t find an inexpensive replacement somewhere, I might just replace the entire trim tab system, but for now that job goes to the bottom of the priority list. Any advice about dealing with these trim tabs would be appreciated.
I did manage to resume the deck work by reinforcing the edges of the Coosa boards where they will slip between the layers of fiberglass. I used some 4-inch biaxial tape cut in half lengthwise, but I ran out and wound up finishing with some 6-inch cloth, which I liked better because it’s a little thinner than the biaxial tape.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/4-4-24_Coosa_reinforcement.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23822&title=4-4-24-coosa-reinforcement&cat=500)
Reinforcing the Coosa board edges with epoxy and fiberglass tape. This should strengthen the joint when the deck pieces are reassembled. I trimmed some of the rough edges with a box cutter after the epoxy gelled and removed the rest with careful use of an angle grinder with a diamond blade after the epoxy had completely set up.
M
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Actually, I used 6-ounce cloth, not "6-inch cloth".
M
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A day with any progress is a good day.
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Before putting the deck back together, I wanted to remove some epoxy that I had carelessly splashed on the gel coat when I was rebuilding the deck for the fuel tank. It’s a spot about 3 by 6 inches with epoxy embedded in the nonskid.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_05401.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23913&title=img-05401&cat=500)
I did some searching on the Internet about how to remove cured epoxy from gel coat, but I didn’t find anything better than what is in the West System fiberglass manual: “Use a heat gun to soften the epoxy (200°F). Heat a small area and use a paint or cabinet scraper to remove the bulk of the coating. Sand the surface to remove the remaining material.” I tried carefully heating up the area with my heat gun, but the epoxy wasn’t softening, and I was concerned that I might damage the underlying gel coat by overheating, so I tried another approach – hot water. I first tried soaking a towel lying on the epoxy with water at exactly 200 degrees, but the epoxy didn’t budge. However, pouring boiling water directly onto the epoxy did loosen it up enough to be picked out with an awl whose taper matched the grooves in the nonskid.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_0545.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23914&title=img-0545&cat=500)
This method was tedious but effective. At one point I had three pots of water on the stove, as it was clear that water any cooler than boiling was ineffective. Scrubbing with a bronze bristle brush under boiling water removed almost all the remaining epoxy while leaving the nonskid completely intact.
(https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_0550.jpg) (https://classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23915&title=img-0550&cat=500)
I’ll finish cleaning the nonskid with some Soft Scrub and maybe some acetone or gentle pressure washing, but it’s clean enough for reassembly now.
M