Classic AquaSport
Aquasport Model Rebuilds, Mods, Updates and Refreshes => Osprey Style Hull Rebuilds => Flatback 22-2 Rebuilds => Topic started by: CLM65 on February 02, 2013, 07:28:59 PM
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I am about to begin the long and hopefully not-to-painful process of rebuilding a 22-2 flatback. I picked this boat up from fellow member and all around great guy Scott (aka gran398), and towed her from NC to FL yesterday. If anyone is interested in the background on her, here is the link:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=9672 (http://www.classicaquasport.com/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=9672)
This boat is a little unique in that she had dual consoles instead of the typical center console. Let me apologize now to those of you who were hoping I would keep the dual console setup. It's just not practical for how I plan to use her.
Anyway, here is how she looked when I parked her alongside my house.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/inside_pre-demo-1.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=6493&title=inside-pre-demo-1&cat=500)
I've been very anxious to see what is below the deck. I had a couple of hours this afternoon to get a little dirty, so I removed the consoles and the storage locker in the back, and pulled up a section of the deck.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/inside_back-3_foam_exposed.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=6491&title=inside-back-3-foam-exposed&cat=500)
As you can see, lots and lots of foam. Very, very wet foam. Is there normally this much foam in these old 22-2s? I know they typically have wet foam in the stringers, but this one has wet foam from chine to chine. I'm assuming it goes all the way forward, but I haven't gotten there yet. This expains why it seemed so heavy when we cranked in onto the trailer.
So, the project has begun. Unfortunately I will only be able to work on it intermittently, so this will probably be a long-term project. Thanks in advance for all the help and guidance I'll be asking for along the way!
Craig
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the hardest part is the beginning. once the cutting, digging, and grinding is over, its all up hill from there
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Aaron, was that a pun intended? Uphill? :wink: :wink:
Craig...have fun! When you get all that mess out of her, I'll come up and take a look! :thumleft: :thumleft:
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the hardest part is the beginning. once the cutting, digging, and grinding is over, its all up hill from there
I'm hoping it is downhill from there! LOL :thumright:
I've got to find a good day to come see how yours is going before you get too far....
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Aaron, was that a pun intended? Uphill? :wink: :wink:
Craig...have fun! When you get all that mess out of her, I'll come up and take a look! :thumleft: :thumleft:
Great Bob - if you want you can come dig some wet foam out!
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Craig glad you made the trip safe. Good luck with the build I'm looking forward to seeing the progress. Who is your buddy peeping over the transom?
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Craig glad you made the trip safe. Good luck with the build I'm looking forward to seeing the progress. Who is your buddy peeping over the transom?
Thanks! That would be my buddy and fishing partner, Buzz. He loves boats, and can't wait to go for a ride!
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the hardest part is the beginning. once the cutting, digging, and grinding is over, its all up hill from there
I'm hoping it is downhill from there! LOL :thumright:
I've got to find a good day to come see how yours is going before you get too far....
you got my number :salut:
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Craig glad you made the trip safe. Good luck with the build I'm looking forward to seeing the progress. Who is your buddy peeping over the transom?
Buzz Lightyear?
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Good luck! I feel like Ive been demo-ing mine for two months now... I wish I could say the begining is the worst of it... but I dont know, Im still stuck in the begining.
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Glad you started already, that's great!!
Looking at the rigging tube.....there is NO DOUBT this boat was custom from C&S as a dual console...only one on record here at Classic Aquasport :thumleft:
Man...we had a great trip, we were blessed with safe passage.
That little girl is fixin' to go to Jenny Craig :lol:
Good on you bro :cheers:
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Good luck! I feel like Ive been demo-ing mine for two months now... I wish I could say the begining is the worst of it... but I dont know, Im still stuck in the begining.
Up-hill Ryan, up-hill...
A mantra...
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Scott, give me a call...
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so how many flat back rebuilds are there currently in progress? know theres a few.
edit: counted 5 on the first page
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Craig glad you made the trip safe. Good luck with the build I'm looking forward to seeing the progress. Who is your buddy peeping over the transom?
Thanks! That would be my buddy and fishing partner, Buzz. He loves boats, and can't wait to go for a ride!
We could all use a good fishing buddy :thumleft:
I started mine early. Now she will just sit beside the aqua while Im working giving me the lets do this look.
(http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll252/RROYERFLA/BOATPICS023_zps2d4544dc.jpg)
Good luck! I feel like Ive been demo-ing mine for two months now... I wish I could say the begining is the worst of it... but I dont know, Im still stuck in the begining.
Up-hill Ryan, up-hill...
A mantra...
I feel we will be hearing that for years to come :mrgreen:
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Awesome picture, OldSkool!
Bob - my kids named our dog - so Buzz Lightyear was the inspiration. But he prefers "Buzz" :wink: .
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Looking forward to the rebuild. :salut:
My fishing partner Guinness, aka G-Dog.
(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j196/wingtime/Classic%20Aquasport/CAS%20Pre%20Spring%20meet%20up%20%20Mar%203%202012/IMG_0312.jpg)
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Baby will eat fish...that's about it!
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The demo is the worst part, that looks like the typical amount of foam I have seen in most.
Once you start rebuilding things get a whole lot better,
It awesome to see so many flatback rebuilds going on here, you will be so happy with what you have when its done. I'm still amazed over a year since my flattie has been in the water what this hull can and does do.
Its time and money will spent
Good luck with your one of a kind
Capt Matt
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Thanks Capt. Matt!
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heres my fishin buddy, found her out in the woods at my parents place up near the suwannee 2 years ago. she followed me everywhere walking or riding the trails so i took her home.
(http://www.fordtruckclub.net/forum/photopost/files/2/2/4/img_20120109_110001.jpg)
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i bought my flat back first week of october, started demo on october 15, and had the transom done the monday before christmas. January killed me time wise, got back from vacation then got the flu, then co worker went on vacation. i should be back on track now, hope to have the stringers glassed/foamed/done by the end of the month.
i think im moving along pretty well overall... :thumright:
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I dont want to hi-jack any threads but I wonder what the lab or lab-mix to aqua ownership ratio is.... I see a lot of labs on here.
On what capt matt said... I love what I can do with my flattie... Ive had a pathfinder, proline bay series, multiple flats boats and nothing does what this boat does in the means of rough water, dry ride and comfort. Its no wonder so many companies have taken a page from aquasport.
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Craig, do yourself a favor and get a sharpshooter shovel(linemans shovel) made getting the foam out of mine rather easy :thumright: once the floor is all gone and the foam is removed you will have a much better picture of what you will have to deal with and everyone of the rebuilds were somewhat different in what had to be fixed or replaced..Remember time is not your enemy it's your friend, having more time to plan is a good thing :salut:
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First meeting :cheers:
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_1568.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=6524&title=img-1568&cat=500)
That is one SWEET ride. And to this day...has never seen salt water :thumright:
Documentation arrived today from the North Carolina Wildlife Resources Commission, Registration and Titling Division.
1967 Coburn and Sargent, length 22 feet 2 inches. Model: Aquasport 22-2.
She will be titled in the state of Florida as per above.
Good stuff :thumright:
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That is one SWEET ride. And to this day...has never seen salt water :thumright:
I'd safely say, down here, she's gonna...
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Leaving Rocky Point, NC:
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_1566.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=6523&title=img-1566&cat=500)
South of Santee, SC:
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_15781.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=6530&title=img-15781&cat=500)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_1577.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=6529&title=img-1577&cat=500)
:thumright:
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Was digging around the net today and found these pics
(http://www.hammerheadlivewell.com/images/flatba10.jpg)
(http://www.hammerheadlivewell.com/images/flatba11.jpg)
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Those...are knees! :cheers: :cheers:
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Hey Scott, the title arrived yesterday - thank you my man! I've been too busy to do much the past few days, between valentine's day, my wife's birthday (today), soccer practice and soccer games, etc., but I did get the rest of the floor up. Now I need to tackle the wet foam. It goes from bow to stern, chine to chine. There was nothing under the deck such as a fuel tank. I guess the saddle tanks were original. I'll post some pics when there is more to see.
I must say, if the stringers are secured to the hull as well as the deck was secure to the stringers, I'll be in great shape! I probably won't get a chance to work on it again until next weekend - another soccer game in the morning and then we're off to visit my parents in Cocoa Beach for a couple days.
One question though - is there a way to tell if previous repairs were done with epoxy versus poly? As Scott previously pointed out, it looks like the transom may have had a prior repair. Since poly/vinyl ester supposedly won't stick to epoxy, I need to figure this out before I start buying resin.
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Hey Scott, the title arrived yesterday - thank you my man! I've been too busy to do much the past few days, between valentine's day, my wife's birthday (today), soccer practice and soccer games, etc., but I did get the rest of the floor up. Now I need to tackle the wet foam. It goes from bow to stern, chine to chine. There was nothing under the deck such as a fuel tank. I guess the saddle tanks were original. I'll post some pics when there is more to see.
I must say, if the stringers are secured to the hull as well as the deck was secure to the stringers, I'll be in great shape! I probably won't get a chance to work on it again until next weekend - another soccer game in the morning and then we're off to visit my parents in Cocoa Beach for a couple days.
One question though - is there a way to tell if previous repairs were done with epoxy versus poly? As Scott previously pointed out, it looks like the transom may have had a prior repair. Since poly/vinyl ester supposedly won't stick to epoxy, I need to figure this out before I start buying resin.
Glad everything got there, good deal.
You'll know more regarding the transom rebuild when you begin the demolition. But...she was a workboat...most likely they did it right there, with poly.
Those saddle tanks could have been used for the engine...and various fire pumps/ high capacity pumps etc.
Looking forward to seeing more :wink:
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Progress has been slow, but I finally got the insulation out from between the stringers. I still need to remove the tops of the stringers and tackle that foam, but I'm getting there. So far I have taken over 1200 pounds of foam, consoles, and decking to the dump.
Here is what it looks like now
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_2140.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=6714&title=img-2140&cat=500)
The only damage I saw (and I think caused) so far is a small section at the base between the center and interior port stringers. I think this can be easily repaired.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_2142.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=6716&title=img-2142&cat=500)
I'd like your opinions on what the transom looks like. The entire boat had been repainted. The white paint on the transom came off pretty easy. Below that was some grey primer, and below that is black. As Scott mentioned, it looks like the transom was previously repaired. Any idea what this black stuff is?
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_2137.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=6717&title=img-2137&cat=500)
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not sure about the black, but it looks like you have a great starting point. The stringers seem to be in good shape, thats a HUGE plus. :thumleft:
Nice work bro, keep the pics coming.
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Cool, the C&S has the same stringer set up as all our aquasport flatbacks did.
Expect those stringers to be delaminated from the floor, If you plan on saving them maybe tab them in on the outside and beef them up before removing the foam as they will and can fold in on themselves once the wet foam is removed. If you plan on a fuel tank under the floor rip out the middle stringer, this will be a good test to see if the others are delaminated.
Fun with wet foam
Capt Matt
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My plan is to re-use the stringers if possible. The stringers are all part of one big drop-in piece, so what you see on the floor between stringers is not the hull, but part of the stringer assembly. Therefore, the only way to tab them on the outside of the stringers to the hull would be to grind out the horizontal sections between the stringers. Good point on the potential for the stringers to "close up" when I remove the foam. My plan is to cut the tops off, while leaving small sections in place to maintain shape. For example, remove 2 feet of stringer top, leave 6", remove another 2 feet, leave 6", etc. I think that will give me enough access to remove the foam, and then tab the inside of the stringers to the hull. Any flaws to this approach?
As far as fuel tank, yes - it will be below the deck. I'm looking for suggestions on where the midpoint of the tank should be (or either end). I haven't settled on a size yet, but probably something in the 50-70 gallon range. And the engine will be mounted on a bracket, so the tank location wil need to factor that in.
Thanks for the input guys!
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Hey brother, I dont remember who, but there was a member (i think it was Aswaff400) who used some sort of paddle bit, with an extension, to remove the foam from the stringers without having to tear into the stringer too much. I suggest you take a look before investing too much time
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Thanks Scott. Someone on here recommended a paint mixer bit. I picked one up at Home Depot but haven't tried it yet. I hope it is the right tool. I'll do another search and see if there is anything else.
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No problem bro!
Im so glad this boat went to a member on the Classic AquaNet. Keep us posted (with pics), can't wait to see some more progress.
Did you happen to snap any recent pics of the exterior, or is she untouched at this point?
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I didn't do much to the outside yet. Just removed some of the stickers and did a test on paint removal. I'll post some pics when there is a little more to see.
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Great progress :thumright:
Is it possible to lift the stringer assembly out as one piece, ie, reverse the installation?
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Is it possible to lift the stringer assembly out as one piece, ie, reverse the installation?
I doubt you'll get it out intact - the goop they set it in is pretty tough stuff. If all of the stringers were already cracked loose, then you could do it.
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Hey brother, I dont remember who, but there was a member (i think it was Aswaff400) who used some sort of paddle bit, with an extension, to remove the foam from the stringers without having to tear into the stringer too much. I suggest you take a look before investing too much time
on the flatback, i just used a sawzall with the longest blade they had at homedepo(i think around 12 inches) foam pulled out super easy and was completely water logged. on the osprey, i used a 4 inch auger type drill bit from work. it chewed through the foam quick but cleanup was a PITA, chopped the foam into tiny little bits... the foam was newer so the sawzall trick didnt work so much on it. atleast on the flatback i could remove all the foam in large blocks i could toss right in the back of the truck...
if you plan on removing the center stringer, just run the sawzall at the base and cut deep into it and remove as one large piece, saves some time.
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Is it possible to lift the stringer assembly out as one piece, ie, reverse the installation?
I doubt you'll get it out intact - the goop they set it in is pretty tough stuff. If all of the stringers were already cracked loose, then you could do it.
I'm wondering how much space there is between the base horizontal flat of that stringer assembly and the hull bottom itself.
If Craig has already pulled out 1200 pounds of slop...it's bound to be wet. But if the space is minimal, ie tangent (zero)...probably matters not.
Hopefully the flattie owners can chime in :thumright:
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Started removing foam from inside the stringers. Aaron had a great idea when he mentioned the auger bit...picked up one of these, which is intended for planting bulbs...
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_2147.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=6744&title=22-2-rebuild&cat=500)
And as Aaron said, it does make quite the mess, but it does pull alot of foam out pretty fast...
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_2144.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=6742&title=22-2-rebuild&cat=500)
Luckily I was able to recruit two willing helpers. These two are more accustomed to making messes than cleaning them up, but they did do an excellent job...
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_2145.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=6743&title=22-2-rebuild&cat=500)
Next I may try Aaron's other tip about the sawzall to get most of the rest of the foam out. I also have the paint stirrer. I still have plenty of stringers to try different tools on. The auger I have won't fit in the side stringers, so I'll have to try something different there.
I must say I was a little dissapointed about the thickness of the fiberglass sides of the stringers. I was hoping for something closer to those monsters Rick built, but they are more like 1/16"-1/8" thick. There is no way I would trust them to hold up the deck without the structural reinforcement that foam adds. I will need to beef them up after adding the new foam, which will be 4 lb density.
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Looking good and nice to see you got those boys out there doing some work. :cheers: :cheers:
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Looking good and nice to see you got those boys out there doing some work. :cheers: :cheers:
A little $$ goes a long way... :wink: :wink:
Craig, that glass thickness is pretty typical for stringers, even today's smooth gel stringer grids. One has to look at the weight that additional layers of glass throw into the mix when designing a boat. Pick up a 36" X 18" piece of 3610, then pick up that same piece wetted out...BIG difference. Now multiply that many times over, and you are talking a lot of weight. I'm not saying that builders would use just the bare minimum to maintain strength and integrity, but the weight factor is always there...
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Looking good and nice to see you got those boys out there doing some work. :cheers: :cheers:
It's good to see something in their hands besides XBox controllers!
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Looking good and nice to see you got those boys out there doing some work. :cheers: :cheers:
A little $$ goes a long way... :wink: :wink:
Craig, that glass thickness is pretty typical for stringers, even today's smooth gel stringer grids. One has to look at the weight that additional layers of glass throw into the mix when designing a boat. Pick up a 36" X 18" piece of 3610, then pick up that same piece wetted out...BIG difference. Now multiply that many times over, and you are talking a lot of weight. I'm not saying that builders would use just the bare minimum to maintain strength and integrity, but the weight factor is always there...
Good point Bob. Hopefully the weight of additional glass will be offset by the removal of the foam outside the stringers and the lighter weight composites.
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Rick built, but they are more like 1/16"-1/8" thick. There is no way I would trust them to hold up the deck without the structural reinforcement that foam adds. I will need to beef them up after adding the new foam, which will be 4 lb density.
After 40 plus years those stringers didn't have a problem supporting the original floor and load. :idea:
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Rick built, but they are more like 1/16"-1/8" thick. There is no way I would trust them to hold up the deck without the structural reinforcement that foam adds. I will need to beef them up after adding the new foam, which will be 4 lb density.
After 40 plus years those stringers didn't have a problem supporting the original floor and load. :idea:
True, but they were also sandwiched between foam both inside and out. That added a bit of lateral support to the glass, so there was nowhere for it to go. By not adding foam back in on the outside of the stringers, the potential may exist for them to buckle/blow out. Increasing their thickness and/or adding bulkheads for lateral support may be the ticket. Maybe I am overthinking this, but I hope to err on the side of conservatism.
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Craig, I like the comment about "willing" helpers :lol: :lol:
Re the strength....this is pretty interesting to think on.
The stringers system is basically an inverted corrugated panel. If I understand it correctly, this large panel was then adhered to the hull skin.
Question: When you look through the tops of the stringers...are they open at the bottom? That is, are you looking at the hull itself....or the stringer system "liner" so to speak?
If you are looking at the hull itself....ie open to the hull...you could tab each stringer internally before adding the foam back in, therefore locking down the stringers to the hull.
If there is a bottom "liner" at the base of each...then some glassed nida/etc. bulkheads as you mention may be a consideration.
She's looking good :thumright: :thumright:
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Thanks Scott. The auger bit I use has about 1-1/2" of shaft below the blade, so I haven't actually removed the foam at the bottom of the stringer yet, so I'm speculating here...but I believe I will see the inside of the hull when I get all the foam out. Then I plan to run a 8" - 12" strip of 1708 or 1808 along the inside of the stringer-to-hull joint for the length of the stringers (both sides). This will hopefully, as you said, lock the stringers to the hull. After foaming the stringers, I will add 2-3 layers of 1708, extending partially down the outsides of the stringers. Then I'm thinking of using NidaCore bulkheads every 4' to coincide with the joints in the decking. This will add some reinforcement to what I believe will be the weak spots in the decking, while providing some lateral support to the stringers.
These are just my thoughts - I'm certainly open to recommendations and suggestions!
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That makes good sense. One plus is where the gas tank coffin goes....you'll have lateral strength....and you could extend the bulkheads over from there.
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Craig,
I wouldn't think there would be a possibility of the stringer forms "blowing" out as long as the foam injected into them has a chance to escape during the cure process...hence the use of "foam holes" in stringer grids. A good "foam gun" guy will pretty much, based on experience and knowledge of the product, get a stringer grid filled with very little escaping out the foam holes yet still leaving very few, and very small, voided areas (no foam). The foam used pretty much throughout the industry, BASF 2-part isocyanate, is some pretty strong stuff when it comes up against it's limits and isn't done kicking off. Will bust out a stringer side for sure...
Once the foam has kicked off completely, it's not gonna grow, even with water intrusion and hence saturation. It's just gonna get heavier per given volume...
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Bob,
I'm not too concerned with blowing them out due to foam expansion. I'm more concerned with the weight of the console, t-top or tower, etc. That weight is trying to compress the stringers beneath them. When the entire area below the deck was foamed in, the fiberglass sides of the stringers were restrained from moving. They couldn't move inward, and they couldn't move outward. Now take away the foam outside the stringers. I'm postulating that if enough force is applied downward on the deck, such as may occur after coming off a big wake, the stringers may compress and the fiberglass sides may bow out and rupture. I know, a bit extreme, and I'm not taking much credit for the foam inside the stringers. But it is a theoretical problem that is easily solved with bulkheads as discussed above. Overkill? Maybe. But it will give me some peace of mind. I'm sleeping better already! :thumright:
Now, if someone can think of any problem I may be creating by doing this, please let me know!
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Now, if someone can think of any problem I may be creating by doing this, please let me know!
Extra work and,
Peace of mind
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Was looking back through your pics. Reckon the open rectangular area is where the optional viewing windows went.
To me, a lot of where and how on bulkheads would be determined by where the tank coffin goes. For kicks and giggles tomorrow will go back through the FB builds. Wonder if any of our FB owners would have made any changes on tank placement if they could do it again?
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Here is Ashley's
(http://i1340.photobucket.com/albums/o735/ashleyhefner/2012-12-21_15-45-01_224_zpsc3a6658b.jpg)
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A bit of "build theory" here, but...
We used athwrartships bulkheads at PL, but basically in the desire/need to reduce the size of unsupported panels...not in regards to laterally stabilizing the stringers. Unsupported panels will distort over time, so the key is to minimize their size.
Now, let's look at the concept of uni-body construction. Once the deck (or liner) is bonded to the stringers, the entire structure, hull, stringers, liner, works as one. Forces applied to any given area (within reason) are distributed throughout the structure. The force exerted downward on the cockpit sole is first applied to the stringer tops, migrates down the stringer sides, then migrates into the hull...the whole time growing weaker and weaker as the migration occurs. The force is not borne alone by the stringer tops, or even the entire stringers themselves. A good bit of it is even absorbed and dispersed by the cockpit sole itself.
Analogous to t/bolting a t/top. 1/4" bolts with 1/4" flat washers will do the job of securing the top to the boat, but allow too much force to be absorbed by the sole as there is minimal area in which to distribute the load. 1/4" fender washers improve the distribution. Backing plates GREATLY improve the distribution.
Like Fernando stated, those trapezoidal shaped stringers served her well for 40 years. Duplicate them with today's materials, and you'll be long gone before this boat ever has any problems... :thumright: :thumright: :thumright:
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I kinda feel like I'm (http://awesomegifs.com/wp-content/uploads/dead-horse.gif) at this point but...
I agree with Bob 100%. My plan to to build the stringers to 1/8" thickness just like the original design. I feel like you are looking at the stringers in terms of the entire structure, when in reality the are only part of it. Maybe think of it this way, when a house is built it isn't just the framing that is the entire structure, the sheathing that goes over it contributes to the strength.
What I'm saying is, the stringers alone aren't the only structure. It is only part of the boat, and the entire "hull" (the hull, stringers, frames, sole, casting deck, flotation foam, transom core) of the boat is a number of structural components adding to the overall strength of the boat.
And as far as reasons not to build them up to a larger thickness (in my opinion) is;
1. A lot of extra weight
2. A lot of extra money
3. A lot of extra work
4. No real return for any of the above
5. A heavier boat means more fuel to push her
Not trying to be negative, I'll support which ever way you go. :thumleft:
I just wanted to offer my point of view on things.
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Thanks for the input Scott, Bob, and Cally. Bob makes good points and I don't disagree with him. But I will say, in my opinion, that eliminating the flotation foam (outside the stringers) does change the way the integrated structure behaves in a non-conservative way. Does it affect it enough to make a difference? Probably not. But...I believe the stringer sides are the weak link, at least on my boat (I was being generous when I estimated up to an 1/8" thick). Adding bulkheads beneath the deck joints was something I was considering anyway, so this just provides additional justification. I don't believe adding Nida Core bulkheads with 1708 on each side will add appreciable weight. And I don't think the cost will be too bad, relatively speaking. And the extra work? Heck, it just helps push off sanding the paint off the hull and cap, which is something I'm not looking forward to!
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if you look back in my pics you can see a 2-by-whatever i was using as a bench or to set the fan on set across the empty stringers, i would even stand on it to take pics. still felt solid... i added 1 to 2 layers of 1708 on the outside, and a layer on the inside bonding directly to the hull, she is a whole lot more solid now even without foam.i will be pouring foam some time this week, or early next week
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Yeah Aaron, the stringers are certainly stronger than I give them credit for. But while I have the opportunity, I'm going to at least add some bulkheads for additional strength.
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Great thing about this site, you get info from mutiple people and mutiple ways of doing things, none wrong, but in the end it comes down to you and your comfort of your rebuild...if more thickness on the stringers makes you more secure for the hull strenght then add more glass and resin, just don't go overboard.. if you look at most of the rebuilds on here you will find that many(myself included) added layers to the hull floor and or the stringers(I did both) right, wrong, don't know for sure but I felt better about it after doing it..That said if you will have more confidence in the structure with thicker stringer sidewalls then make them thicker while your doing your bulkheads :salut: Just one mans humble opinion :thumright:
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what he said ^^^
:thumright:
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Glad to see the progress Craig!
Now is the worst part of it. Sounds and looks like you are on the right track.
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Moving right along
Remember you will need drain tubes thru the stringers/bulkheads so any water under the deck runs back to the bilge
Do you plan on removing the foam from the outer stringers too?
One of the big advantages of building your own grid/stringer system over the old set up is you gain lots of storage room in the floor along with the fact you can build the new stringers as high as needed to raise the floor. It also allows you to lay all new biaxle inside before sEtting stringers
Put your tank as far forward as you can start at the front of the console with back of the tank
Capt Matt
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Thanks Matt. I should probably make a checklist so I don't forget those little details like drain tubes.
I will be removing the foam from the outer stringers as well. I will be reusing the old stringers if possible. Keeping costs down is key, and I think this is the most economical route. But it does not leave much room for storage below deck, even with raising the deck a couple of inches, as you already know. I can live with that.
And thanks for the tank location information. I need to start laying out the modifications to my stringers, including the location of the tank. I appreciate the guidance.
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I will be reusing the old stringers if possible.
I found one of those oscillating tools and an air hammer to be very useful in getting those stringers out in one piece. If I would have been able to reuse mine, I would have pulled them out with the foam still inside and cleaned them out upside down outside of the boat. It would save a bunch of glass work vs. cutting the tops open to get the foam out. I say that because you are going to need to build back to the original thickness where you make those cutouts.
I wish I had some pics to share, but I'm pretty bad about that... :oops:
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Thanks Carl. As long as they are well bonded to the hull after I get all the foam out, I am not planning to remove the old stringers, except for part of the middle one so that I can get the wood out of the keel. I will add glass to the inside of the stringers to add additional bonding between the stringers and hull. I will also add more glass to the chines and the keel areas.
I assume you removed your stringers so that you can add more glass to the hull bottom? While I'm sure that will make the boat stronger and is a good idea, I'm hoping the "good enough for the past 40+ years" adage holds true here. I know members here have done it both ways, and I haven't heard of any boats falling apart yet :roll: !
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An old FB thread worth mention. The boys' done good:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5294 (http://www.classicaquasport.com/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5294)
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I'm hoping the "good enough for the past 40+ years" adage holds true here. I know members here have done it both ways, and I haven't heard of any boats falling apart yet <!-- s:roll: -->:roll:<!-- s:roll: --> !
One thing to remember about this boat...she has never seen salt water. Which means she has never banged a five-footer in a head sea.
She was ordered up as a one-off in '67 from Hialeah and delivered to Lake Lanier, Georgia as a tender
http://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=9672.0
The biggest swell she has ever seen is a pontoon wake :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
:thumright: :thumright: :thumright:
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Thanks for that link Scott. Another beautiful rebuild. With 3 layers of 1808 on the bottom, that is one solid hull.
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It seems like forever, but I've finally got about 99% of the foam out. I didn't find any stringer problems, and the entire stringer insert seems to still be well bonded to the hull :cheers: . I still have to remove the last remnants of foam and grind out the exposed original bonding putty, and prep the surfaces inside the stringers for some 1708 tabbing. And also get a tank so I can determine how much of that center stringer to remove.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_2187.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=6981&title=67-222-demo&cat=500)
I also removed most of the inner transom skin to see what condition the wood is in. The pic below shows the top of the inside of the transom. It has about a 1.5" high solid fiberglass lip across it. Do I just cut this top 1.5" off across the whole lower transom area?
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_2188.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=6982&title=67-222-demo&cat=500)
It's a ways off, but I am going to need some guidance on filling in the area above the original outer skin (this will be an enclosed transom). I've seen some people clamp a board to the outside surface and build it up from the outside in before the transom core gets installed. And I've seen people add the transom core first, and then build up the outer skin from the inside out. Is there a "preferred" or better way?
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A couple more questions for the experts....
I am getting close to ordering some material. I was originally planning to go with vinylester resin. However, it seems that the vinylester will cost about $100 more per 5 gallon bucket than the poly resin. I see lots or rebuilds using poly, so I am rethinking this part and contemplating using poly resin.
My (inexperienced) gut feeling is that the poly will be fine for the deck, stringers, etc. My biggest concern is the interface between the new fiberglass and the old, particularly where there is a butt-type joint. For example, where the existing cap will be joined to the new transom cap enclosure, and where the outer transom skin will mate up with the new skin to make it an enclosed transom. Since poly does not offer as strong a bond as vinyl, and is not as flexible as vinyl, and since these are high stress areas, I worry about the joint being weak and eventually developing some cracks.
Is there a problem with using both poly and vinylester resin? Would the vinyl adhere to the poly without any issues? I know epoxy will adhere to cured poly or vinyl resin, but I don't recall reading anything about vinyl over poly. This approach would allow me to use poly on most of the project, and then vinyl only on the areas where I am concerned with the bond strength.
Thoughts?
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Here's a member you may want to talk to.
viewtopic.php?p=103620#p103620 (http://www.classicaquasport.com/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?p=103620#p103620)
Opinions
viewtopic.php?p=28230#p28230 (http://www.classicaquasport.com/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?p=28230#p28230)
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Carl, give Eugene a call and ask him about the resin compatability.
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I was going to go all poly and then visited some other sites and talked to our Master Rebuilders and after that I decided to go with epoxy for under the floor and poly above. I have the natural demarcation line there where I can break the two.
The bonding strength of poly is 100 and epoxy is 2000. So a no-brainer there. Epoxy will stick to poly and I read somewhere that to transistion from epoxy to poly you need vinylester. Other than that I know nothing about vinylester.
My rebuild is a little different than yours - I started with a clean slate.
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Thanks guys. Most people seem to use either poly or epoxy. From what I've read, vinylester has favorable properties compared to poly, while still allowing the use of gelcoat. Epoxy is arguably the strongest, but it is also much more expensive. It is comforting to see orp using vinylester on his rebuild. From everything I have read, vinylester can be used in repairs to polyester resin boats. I just need to confirm that it is compatible with "fresh" polyester resin.
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I spoke to Eugene earlier today based on Scott's great advice. It's the first time I spoke with him - what a great guy. Very helpful and knowledgable. So here is the skinny in case anyone is curious. Vinylester can be used on poly. The downside is that vinylester is less forgiving than poly. It requires a precise amount of catalyst to cure - too little and it may take a very very long time - and with the right amount it has a pretty short self life, especially in the Florida heat. Too much and I guess you have even less time to work with it. The key is in the preparation. If the surfaces are properly prepared, good poly is perfectly adequate. Bottom line, Eugene would recommend using all poly, especially when working in a non-environmentally controlled work space.
Eugene - if you see this and I mis-spoke, please let me know.
Thanks,
Craig
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ive been using all vinylester in my build, and eugene is right, too much catalyst and gels up within minutes, too little and may take a week to cure, if it does cure at all. i usually mix no less than 2%, which eugene recommended to me that i do and ive been sticking to that advise, gives me plenty of work time. i also mix in small batches which seems to help and have had very little waste left in the buckets.
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Good to know Aaron. 2% is the number that Eugene mentioned to me also. Sounds like the vinylester is not giving you any problems. I'm still not sure which way I am going to go. Eugene gave me good advice. If I prep the surfaces properly, poly seems like the way to go. However, I've never done this type of glass work before. I feel more confident that I can hit the 2% catalyst mark than the perfect prep mark. In that sense, vinylester may be able to compensate for minor shortcomings in my prep work. And the areas where I am considering using vinylester are not extremely large - mostly patching holes where I removed fittings, with the biggest area being the outer transom skin. Therefore hopefully pot life wouldn't be an issue.
Decisions, decisions....
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I have a question for you gas tank folks. I'm looking at poly tanks for my install, something in the 55+ gallon range. I've found decent pricing on many of them, but in most cases the shipping is almost as much $ as the tank. I did find one 55 gallon tank that might work, for a good price, that also has free shipping. It has the fill & vent on one end, and the pickup and sensor on the other end. Due to the height of the doghouse (fill), I would need to put that end under the casting deck. The fill connection would be aimed at the starboard side, but I want to put the deck fill on the port side. Does anyone know if there would be a problem with putting a 180 degree bend in the fill line?
Here is a link to the tank.
Edit: Linky no worky...here is a picture of it (thanks Scott)
http://www.moellermarine.com/sites/moel ... -72dpi.jpg (http://www.moellermarine.com/sites/moellermarine/images/marine_tank/032555_07526-72dpi.jpg)
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Is this the one?
http://www.moellermarine.com/sites/moel ... -72dpi.jpg (http://www.moellermarine.com/sites/moellermarine/images/marine_tank/032555_07526-72dpi.jpg)
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Does anyone know if there would be a problem with putting a 180 degree bend in the fill line?
Just in your wallet for the extra line. Gas flows around bends (not kinks) pretty well.
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Is this the one?
http://www.moellermarine.com/sites/moel ... -72dpi.jpg (http://www.moellermarine.com/sites/moellermarine/images/marine_tank/032555_07526-72dpi.jpg)
That looks like the one :thumleft: .
Edit: Sorry, just checked the link in my post...just goes to the Moeller web site and not the specific tank. It is model FT5599-1.
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Does anyone know if there would be a problem with putting a 180 degree bend in the fill line?
Just in your wallet for the extra line. Gas flows around bends (not kinks) pretty well.
Thanks Bob, that's what I was thinking and hoping others would agree. I should have no problem fitting a fairly large radius bend since it is under the casting deck. I just don't want to end up with enough resistance that the gas backs up and trips the handle every time I fill up.
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Craig,
It probably goes without saying, but try to make sure your fill hose maintains a continuous slope up to the fill fitting on the gunwale. If you do so, and maintain proper venting, you should NEVER have an issue.
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Gotcha Ryan. The beauty of putting the fill connection under the casting deck is that there should be plenty of room to maintain slope.
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Yesterday was a good day...got almost all the transom work done. Just need to finish up around the edges. Actually was easier than expected :thumleft:!
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_2190.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=7046&title=222-rebuild&cat=500)
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Maybe I'm forgetting previous conversations but is that your Aquasport hanging from the davits in the background? If it is, you should add a "Signature" in your Control Panel and list the boats you have :idea: (see mine)
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Yes Rick, that's my 205 on the lift. I'll take some pics and add a signature in the next couple of days.
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The bend should be fine.. :salut: I put the same size tank in my 19-6, and the fill connection was facing the stern, I just got a longer fill hose and ran it down the top of the tank and turned it back toward to bow to hook it up... no flow problems while filling(not slow)..with your vent farther forward it should vent fine..Picked up my poly tank from greatlakesskipper off ebay....it is an INCA....boats coming along nicely :thumright:
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Thanks gman. I looked at several tanks at greatlakesskipper, both on ebay and their website. Their prices seem to be pretty good, but the shipping is a killer. I actually contacted them last week to make sure the shipping calculator on their website wasn't screwed up ($265 shipping :shock: :shock: :shock: ). It wasn't. And the ones on ebay with free shipping...well, nothing is really free...it seems to be rolled into the "buy it now" cost.
I'd pull the trigger on the 55 gallon tank I found for a good price, but I need to layout the console and casting deck location. The tank will need to be fairly far forward. I know everyone says to locate the tank forward to compensate for mounting the motor on a bracket. But is there such a thing as too far forward?
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Thanks gman. I looked at several tanks at greatlakesskipper, both on ebay and their website. Their prices seem to be pretty good, but the shipping is a killer. ?
Ship by Greyhound. They are very reasonable for large packages. You just have to go to a bus terminal for drop off and pick up.
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Thanks gman. I looked at several tanks at greatlakesskipper, both on ebay and their website. Their prices seem to be pretty good, but the shipping is a killer. I actually contacted them last week to make sure the shipping calculator on their website wasn't screwed up ($265 shipping :shock: :shock: :shock: ). It wasn't. And the ones on ebay with free shipping...well, nothing is really free...it seems to be rolled into the "buy it now" cost.
I'd pull the trigger on the 55 gallon tank I found for a good price, but I need to layout the console and casting deck location. The tank will need to be fairly far forward. I know everyone says to locate the tank forward to compensate for mounting the motor on a bracket. But is there such a thing as too far forward?
Yes there is. Too far forward, the bow will dig. In a following sea, digging into the backs of the swell....could cause the bow to "grab" and brooch.
Captain Matt has been real busy lately, hasn't been able to get on the board much running 2 trips a day. Since he runs his flatback daily, he'd be the one to answer "where" on the tank placement.
Give me a holler if you like, I'll get you his number.
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Thanks gman. I looked at several tanks at greatlakesskipper, both on ebay and their website. Their prices seem to be pretty good, but the shipping is a killer. ?
Ship by Greyhound. They are very reasonable for large packages. You just have to go to a bus terminal for drop off and pick up.
Picking it up at the local Greyhound terminal is no problem, but how does one go about getting it from the store to the departing Greyhound terminal?
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Yes there is. Too far forward, the bow will dig. In a following sea, digging into the backs of the swell....could cause the bow to "grab" and brooch.
Captain Matt has been real busy lately, hasn't been able to get on the board much running 2 trips a day. Since he runs his flatback daily, he'd be the one to answer "where" on the tank placement.
Give me a holler if you like, I'll get you his number.
Capt. Matt posted a page or two back, recommending the tank go as far forward as possible, with the back of the tank close to the front of the console. That's the reason I pm'd you about the dimensions of your console. I seem to have lost your cell number. Give me a ring when you get a chance.
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I put mine as far forward as I could, which translates to the front of the tank is about 6 inches behind the front deck..
Thats as far forward as I could get the tank and keep it under ther floor :thumright: I will attest that the bow of mine does ride a little bit lower than before( 1-1 1/2inch), but when my livewell goes in (stern), it should be about where it was originally :thumright:
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It's been a while since I posted - not necessarily because I haven't been working on the boat, but mostly because there has been nothing noteworthy lately. Still grinding...still removing paint...still trying to stay on the wife's good side...only now I sweat a lot more when I do these things. Man is it getting hot!
Anyway, I am at the point of removing the wood strip in the keel. In order to make sure I am cutting in the center of the keel, I drilled two small (1/8") holes from the outside of the keel - one at the front of the keel and another at the back, and then ran a string between them:
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_2206.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=7336&title=finding-the-center-of-the-keel&cat=500)
I was expecting to see some wood chips come out when I drilled the holes, but didn't see any. So then, before I attacked it with the right angle grinder, I drilled some exploratory 3/8" holes along the center of the floor. I was mostly curious to see what condition the wood was in, but I also wanted to see how thick the glass is above the wood. This is what each one looked like:
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_2208.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=7337&title=where-s-the-wood&cat=500)
Each hole was about 1-1/4" to 1-1/2" deep, and each one had the exact same result. Does this look like wood to anyone? Is it possible that this boat was made before or after they started using wood in the keel? Does anyone see a need to go any further with this part of the project?
Oh, and I also got to play a little with fiberglass. Here is the cradle I made for the gas tank. Not the prettiest thing - more of a learning experience - but I think it will work fine once I properly reinforce it. And yes, I did leave room for tank expansion and foam padding.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_2210.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=7338&title=fuel-tank-tray&cat=500)
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Not sure what mine actually is (title says 72) but i cut a foot or so off the end of my keel and it was nothing but glass and putty with a fair amount of voids. Definitely factory. Not a whole lotta water to be found in mine but alot of voids. Ground mine down to bare glass and filled all voids before glassing...
Another mystery. Every flatback ive seen in person has the same bit of rocker in the forward section of the keel and turns into a hook toward the middle. Not the hulls but just the keel itself. I tried to get it out of the keel at first, but the hull was straight so i left it alone...
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Craig, great progress. From the drill pics...no wood in my former and your new Flatback Fireboat :wink:
I'm with you. If it ain't broke...don't fix it :thumright:
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Thanks Scott - I'm all for less work! I know we kinda made an educated guess on the year...I wonder if it may be newer, like dirtwheels. Doesn't really matter to me...I'm just happy I got a flatback!
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My 70/71 170 didn't have any wood down the middle either. Maybe just some years?
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Yours may be the same year as Rick's. What year is Dirtwheels?
It will be interesting to see if the '69 with the windows has the wood strip.
The more flatbacks we have the more the dots are starting to connect :salut:
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Guys, keep in mind that oft times, differences between like model boat can be attributed to "anomolies" on the production floor. Lack of certain materials, dealer feedback about particular structural issues, screw-ups in lamination (once you have a problem there, it follows that boat all the way down the line), schedule-driven production managers, all these factors can contribute to differences in like models that were not intended to be any permanant change or improvement.
Excellent case in point, as I believe I have mentioned this before, was when we ran out of end-grain balsa (supplied in kit form from DIAB) and had to use marine ply to core the decks of 225 or 245/250 Ospreys. Same would go for Explorers. The ply cored decks weighed a TON in comparison to the balsa cored decks, and some owners might say why does my Osprey weigh 400 lbs more than my buddies? When did this change? When in reality, nothing changed at all, it was just a stop-gap measure until things could get back to normal...
Inexperienced lam crews, or experienced crews that were used to laying up other models can account for below decks stringer and b/head differences between like model boats as well. To this day, and I'm sure it was very prevalent back then, there are not a lot of companies that use in-line QC checks to assure complete consistency from one boat to the next of the same model. A hull comes out of lam, goes through cutting, gets to the assembly building, a hull prep guy gets in and says...WTF is this! Calls the super over, the super calls the Prod Mngr over, prod mngr is schedule driven, knows it would through that boat way off schedule to fix the "issue", so he asks himself can I/we live with this? If so, the build continues and now you have 1 boat of a certain model that is quite a bit different than other boats of the same model...
Unfortunately, the only real way to document the "history" of the various early AS models would be to interview several people who worked at the Hialeah plant way back then. I would imagine, since it's basically 40 years ago, many of those folks are no longer with us. Genmar certainly had the opportunity to do so when they owned the company, but, they decided it just wasn't important. Shame on them.
So just a bit of a caveat here when it comes to trying to determine the absolute history of a product that, in all honesty, had very little documentation in regards to how it was built. Case in point regarding documentation. Proline ABSOLUTELY splashed the Pathfinder 2200 bay boat hull to create their 22 Bay and 24 Bay. Pathfinder sued (http://www.ca11.uscourts.gov/opinions/ops/200411259.pdf (http://www.ca11.uscourts.gov/opinions/ops/200411259.pdf) ) and lost because they did not properly document changes to their hull, so hence could not prove the splash was a Pathfinder...and this was in 2005! Not 1973!
From someone whose "been there, done that"...
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Good stuff Bob :cheers:
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Thanks Bob, good insight there. I'm just happy I didn't start cutting away at the floor in search of the wood. Those little holes I drilled will be a piece of cake to fill compared to what could have been :thumleft: .
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It really is an incredible shame that a boat builder that, to some degrees, has the same following as Mako, SeaCraft, Whaler, Grady-White, did not have the foresight to not only get all the documentation down, but to pass along the importance of that documentation to the future owners, in this case Genmar. It it also of equal, if not greater shame, that Irwin Jacobs did not see Aquasport as seemingly the rest of the boating community did, and does.
I met Jacobs twice in my time, he was one to drop in to the plant and just walk around, unescorted. He liked the WC partr of things, period. Treated AS as an afterthought. Little did this "intelligent" man know that AS would continue on, even grow, although the last models produced were in '05, yet no one really covets a WC, except the V20 crowd. A guy on THT started a WC forum, asked me to help out, I did my best...but almost zero traffic. Not exactly fun posting to no one...
It would be absolutely awesome to find some shipping container in some obscure corner of some builders property that held the design, engineering, marketing, and whatever else documentation of the famous Aquasports boats. But somehow, I just don't think that's ever gonna happen...
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It's been a while since I posted progress pics. I have to confess that I have not been very good at documenting the whole process in pictures. But here are some showing where I am currently at. The transom is in. I used the same schedule as Eugene did on Ashley's boat. That is:
3/4 oz mat
3 x 1708
3 x 3/4 oz mat
3/4" Kay-Cel, 3/4 oz mat, 3/4" Kay-Cel (this "sandwich" was made separately)
3/4 oz mat
3 x 1708
I'm still working on the stringers. Sometimes I wonder if it would have been easier to pull them out and start from scratch. But I'm stubborn so I'm not going to change now. Here is a picture showing where the tank will most likely go (+/- 6" or so).
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_2226.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=7464&title=22-2-rebuild&cat=500)
This pic shows the cradle for the tank to make sure it is properly supported. It will get boxed in by the stringers and bulkheads.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_22271.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=7465&title=22-2-rebuild&cat=500)
And here is a pic with the tank sitting in the cradle, also showing the transom. The transom has a subtle curve to it, about an inch higher in the center than the sides.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_22301.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=7468&title=22-2-rebuild&cat=500)
Grinding out the old glass and putty is really a PITA, but I'm getting there. I can usually only do it for about 30-45 minutes before my angle grinder gets really hot and I need to give it a break. Which is fine, because the heat of summer is here and I need to cool off then too.
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wheew,,, looks like a ton of grinding! Great progress though!
Are you going to add "tabs" to the inside of the stringers, i think I've read on a couple rebuilds where the weak link of the original stringers is that they separate from the hull overtime.
Noticed your gas tank "engine" line is towards the front of the tank... will that cause a problem if you are running low and the gas is pitched towards the aft? (might have plenty of gas in the tank, but it would be able to get to the pick-up)...
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Thanks Chris. Yes, I will be tabbing the inside of the stringers. They seem to be very well attached right now - which makes removing portions of the them for the tank install and the bilge area that much more fun - but I'm not going to rely on the putty alone to last the life of the boat. I can't afford to do the whole under-deck portion in epoxy, but I'm leaning towards getting enough epoxy to tab the stringers under where the console will be, and a little bit forward of that. I think that will be the area that gets tested the most over time, especially if I put a tower on her.
As far as the gas tank install...the slope of the tank will follow the keel (not parallel to the deck), so it will be a little lower towards the front, which is also where the pickup is. So I should be able to suck all the gas up, especially when I'm just idling. The flip side is that I probably won't get the full 72 gallon capacity, as air will get trapped at the rear end of the tank. But I'm fine with that, as I was really looking for a 55 gallon tank, but couldn't pass up the deal I got on this one. Note that the reason I am putting the fitting end of the tank towards the front and following the keel is to minimize the amount I need to raise the deck. There is a bit more space in the hull towards the front. I was originally only going to raise it an inch or so, but now I'm planning on 3". That should give me plenty of space for the tank and also help with deck drainage.
Any other concerns or suggestions...keep 'em coming! I'm trying to think this all through, but I've never done anything like this before, so I'm bound to make some mistakes or do things the hard way. I hoping you guys can help keep me out of trouble!
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Craig, just some food for thought...
I would really consider pulling the rest of the stringers out and starting from scratch. The amount of materials you will have into rebuilding them will be pretty well identical to building them from scratch. Plus, it will probably take less time as opposed to patching everything back together. In my (humble) opinion you will wind up with a better end product. I was in your shoes (I had thought I was going to be able to reuse my stringers) and after weighing the pros and cons, decided it would be time and money well spent to completely remove them. Another thing to consider is you would be able to add a layer in the hull to build back up what you had to grind out.
Not trying to be pushy, just offering an opinion.
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Thanks Carl, you're not being pushy. You are doing what I was hoping for - offering advice and opinions.
I've thought about removing everything and starting from scratch. Before I pulled the floor up, I figured that if my stringers were delaminating like so many others, then I wouldn't have a choice. But I've found quite the opposite. The stringer sections I did remove, I couldn't remove with a chisel. I had to grind them down. Maybe it was the easy lifestyle this boat had on a lake, as Scott (aka gran398) has previously suggested. Regardless, I feel the bond is good, and by tabbing in the insides of the stringers, it will only get stronger. I won't be able to add extra glass below the bonded area of the stringers (obviously), but I will be adding a layer of glass in all the exposed areas. While perhaps not quite as good as starting from scratch, I believe the finished product will be more than adequate. At least I really hope so!
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Silly questions for those of you that have tabbed in your existing stringers...how did you go about doing it? Did you run continuous strips of glass along the entire hull/stringer joint? Or did you just do intermittent "tabs".
Also, tabbing in these trapezoid stringers requires glassing the underside of the angled stringers. Does this create a problem with the glass wanting to fall down? If so, is there a trick to keep it in place until it cures?
Lastly, a question on pourable foam...how much do you mix at a time?
Thanks!
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Silly questions for those of you that have tabbed in your existing stringers...how did you go about doing it? Did you run continuous strips of glass along the entire hull/stringer joint? Or did you just do intermittent "tabs".
Also, tabbing in these trapezoid stringers requires glassing the underside of the angled stringers. Does this create a problem with the glass wanting to fall down? If so, is there a trick to keep it in place until it cures?
Lastly, a question on pourable foam...how much do you mix at a time?
Thanks!
i used strips, about 5 ft long,
i just glassed to the angled part didnt worry about getting under it,
i mixed about a gallon at a time(1/2 gal part-A, 1/2 gal part-B)
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Thanks Aaron, good to hear from you!
So to be clear, the glass had no problem sticking to the stringer, even though gravity was not working in its favor?
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Try to use a wet out board Craig and have someone wet out the strips for the tabbing. I cut my tabbing full length (like 14 ft) and had Ed wet them out with a roller and a hard roller and then roll them up as he did. Then he handed a roll to me and I just unrolled it in place, positioned it, hard rolled it and then laid the next layer over it. Make them as long as you can, but the wet out board is the key. I only did the outside of the stringers though.
A wet out board is a some form of table - I use a 2'W x 8'L sheet of plywood on saw horses - covered in plastic sheeting that you can throw away when done and it protects the table. One thing I noticed is that if you can keep the table out of the sun the resin will give you more working time.
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Thanks Rick, great tip :thumright:
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Craig, just spoke with Chris at Seamark. The correct procedure is exactly as Rick describes. One long strip, wet out outside of the boat. Rolled up, placed in the boat, then rolled out.
He recommends thicker material with some rigidity to prevent falloff/sagging on the interior of the trapezoid stringers. Specifically, he said to use stitchmat or biax.
Where you get to the end of the run...overlap the next strip.
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Excellent, thank you Scott! Does 1708 qualify as thick and rigid enough? Or do I need to get something heavier?
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4 layers of 1708 or 1808 is about 1/4". You should tab with 2 layers. 1708 is a pain to go around a corner so it should be stiff enough to stay up against even a lightly inverted angle. Some people lay the wider layer on first and the thinner on second saying they control air bubbles better that way (I've tried both ways and it does seem to help) - I guess it really doesn't matter which is on top if you're wet on wet.
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Excellent, thank you Scott! Does 1708 qualify as thick and rigid enough? Or do I need to get something heavier?
Called Chris back, he said 1708 will work great :thumright:
What Rick says he reiterates regarding adhering to inverse angles. He also said if worked correctly, it will even adhere upside down.
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Thanks guys, two layers of 1708 it will be. I'll also put down a layer of 3/4oz mat first. I know most people will say that the mat sewn to the 1708 is good enough, and they may be right, but Eugene recommended a layer of mat first for better adhesion. As long as it doesn't prevent the glass from staying in place, I think that is good advice.
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That sounds like an excellent plan. Beefy layup low in the hull, strength and rigidity.
A little extra weight.... but exactly where you want it.
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A little bit further along...and a few more questions. I picked up a 16 gallon freshwater tank for my rebuild. About the only place it will fit easily is under the casting deck. It's hard to tell in the pic below, but the front of my gas tank is a few inches back from the edge of the casting deck, so the water tank will start a few inches forward of the edge of the casting deck. Is this going to be putting too much weight up front? (the stringer that the tank is sitting on in the picture will obviously be cut down). Also, what is typically done to vent the tank? Would I use a gas vent high on the hull? Or run the vent line to a thru hull lower on the hull?
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/gas_and_water_tanks.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=7651&title=22-2-rebuild-pics&cat=500)
Also, here are my knees glassed in. They are 2 x 3/4" Kay-Cell, just like the transom, and will form the sides of the bilge. I guess you can say I have hybrid stringers - part composite board and part foam/fiberglass. I put 3" PVC rigging tubes at 45 degrees, one on each side. I'm also going to put a couple smaller pipes through the bulkheads (between the center stringer and the stringers on either side of center) for the fuel line and anything else that will need to go between bilge and the tank area. If anyone sees something I'm missing or doing wrong - it's not too late to let me know!!!
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/knees.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=7652&title=22-2-rebuild-pics&cat=500)
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Craig,
One thought on the weight forward.
Less than 140 lbs with everything attached, completely full so....
It not unlike having a small adult up front when running and will make little difference when fishing.
Spreads the load rather than concentrating it aft.
I don't see it being a problem at all.
I probably have twice that forward in the cabin on my WAC. Rides very well thank you.
Worst case is the boat steers wildly and submarines on you so you just don't put as much (or none at all) water in the tank.
As one cut and paste to another, I will predict two events.
It will ride nice and smooth and you'll love the fresh water.
Rick has a 40 I believe. He should have a good read on the vent issue.
Good luck. :thumright:
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Hi Craig,
I'm interested in how the stringers will be tied together since it's a little confusing to me in the last pic with the empty originals and the new composites in the same pic.
As for venting the water tank I have in the 230 (40 gal), I had them install (had the tank made) a vent on the top of the tank that has a plastic bolt in it to open or close it. I open it when drawing water from it via the pump and close it when cruising so I don't slosh water out of it. As I get down to 3/4 tank and below I leave it open. Works great but I have easy access through the hatch in the back of my floor in front of the splashwell. If yours is not going to be easily accessed you'll need to treat it like a fuel tank with a vent line.
As for location and weight forward I think a FB owner will have to reply since they would know how the boat acts with a big tank in it versus the above deck tank they had originally and how, by adding more weight forward, that would affect the bow steering those boats exhibit as it is.
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As for location and weight forward I think a FB owner will have to reply since they would know how the boat acts with a big tank in it versus the above deck tank they had originally and how, by adding more weight forward, that would affect the bow steering those boats exhibit as it is.
You know, I didn't think about that but what really causes the "bow steer"? Is it the hull dead rise or weight placement? Stern slipping or bow digging in? Greater amount of hull surface in the water as opposed to other hull designs?
I re-read Hopefishing's Proline rebuild and he mentions the bow steer effect. It will be interesting to hear from the Captains that run a flat back as to where they have positioned their clients while underway and in different sea conditions to counter or reduce the effect.
Still think Craig will like the fresh water. Just have to grip the wheel a little tighter. :idea:
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Haven't heard from Matt in a while, think I'll give him a call.
He runs his every day for a living, different weight scenarios, etc...
Will report :thumright:
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Matt said to put the freshwater tank under the center console if possible.
OT:
Captain Matt Fishing Report:
They are KILLING the snook.
He is repowering tomorrow with a 4 stroke 150 HP Merc.
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Good input Bob, Rick, and Scott (and Capt. Matt). If I do put it up front, I guess I can leave it empty if it causes a problem. I briefly looked at putting it under the console, between the gas tank and the bilge. I know that will be tight, but I'll look at it again. That may work.
Rick, I know it's hard to visualize what my stringers will look like from that pic and the fact that the stringers are currently open. This may help. The dark border of the bilge is going to be Kay-Cell, while the hatched lines show the foam filled stringers.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/boat_stringers.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=7661&title=stringer-layout-plan&cat=500)
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Keep in mind one can compensate for a stern heavy boat with trim tabs. There is no device I know of that will compensate for a bow heavy boat. :idea:
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Took some measurements and it looks like the water tank will fit between the gas tank and the bilge :thumright: . It wouldn't actually be under the console, as there is only about a foot between the back of the gas tank and the back of the console, and that space is reserved for the rigging tubes. I'm feeling pretty good about this location, especially considering Nando's point on compensation and Rick's comment on bow steer :shock:. So that's the way I'm leaning, unless someone can make a strong case for putting it in the bow.
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That's perfect. I was worried about bow steer :salut:
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That's perfect. I was worried about bow steer :salut:
Me too!!!!!
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IMO behind the fuel tank is a better location than in the bow. I believe what Matt meant by "Under the console" is "In the console", but that's just an assumption.
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Rick, I know it's hard to visualize what my stringers will look like from that pic and the fact that the stringers are currently open. This may help. The dark border of the bilge is going to be Kay-Cell, while the hatched lines show the foam filled stringers.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/boat_stringers.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=7661&title=stringer-layout-plan&cat=500)
Craig, I may be wrong but I don't think the little stringer in the middle behind the fuel tank is going to do anything for you as far as stringers go - it's not part of anything or contiguous front to back. It will help support the decking and keep the fuel tank from sliding back but that is all. Those two things could be accomplished some other way, you could remove that and drop the water tank there. The two complete stringers that you are tying into will take the longitudinal load.
Do you think the transom supports will give you enough tie-in to the stringers the way you're doing it? If you look at most other rebuilds the stringers and transom supports are all inline, connected and contiguous to transfer load all the way front to back.
I also am thinking like Blue, that Matt was recommending "inside" the console. Kinda defeats all the space you're trying to free up in it by going under deck with the fuel tank though .
Isn't it fun trying to figure this out :roll: I know you have the background to do it though. :thumleft:
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Good comments and questions Rick. Here are my thoughts/logic (right or wrong).
1. I know many people suggest just using two stringers, and eliminating the center and outer stringers during rebuilds. After all, this is what Aquasport eventually did. I'm not sure what year Aquasport did that, but I'm guessing it was when they went to a modified vee. IMO (and this is purely my opinion), this makes more sense with the modified vee, as the shape of the hull is inherently stiffer than the flatback (due to the "V" versus a large relatively flat area). So, while that little stringer between the bilge and tank area does not transfer load back to front, I believe it will add to the stiffness of the hull, as well as provide some support for the deck. In any case, I don't think it hurts anything other than a little extra cost. With that said, I will be removing part of it for the water tank.
2. The way I am looking at the knees is that their primary function (again, my opinion) is to counteract the torque the motor is putting on the transom. The force of the bracketed motor acts on the upper half of the transom. Without any internal support, the transom would want to rotate about the transom-to-hull joint/axis. The knees react to that torque, and transfer that force to the hull in a direction normal (perpendicular) to the hull. The longer the reacting lever arm (in this case the horizontal leg of my knee), the lower the reaction force on the hull bottom (i.e., Torque = force x distance). So I feel that the size and configuration of my knees should handle the force of the motor pretty well (i.e., minimize transom flex). The other part of the stringer/knee function is to transfer load horizontally as you mention. My sketch doesn't show it, but the fiberglass stringers are trapezoids, and will tie-in more substantially to the front section of the bilge than the sketch shows. So yes, I think it will carry the load quite well.
3. I guess Capt. Matt may have meant inside the console instead of under the floor, but that ain't gonna happen. Even though I don't have a console yet, I can't imagine there will be enough room for the water tank, two batteries, etc. I think below the deck is better for several reasons, such as lower COG, less usable space impact, etc.
I hope my thoughts make sense. I know plenty of rebuilds have been completed differently than mine with great success. But there are always more than one way to skin a cat. And one of the pleasures I'm getting from this rebuild is the ability to be creative, think outside the box, do things a little differently, do things "my" way, etc. If it wasn't fun, it would be hard to keep moving forward!
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Makes good sense!
Also happy you can get the water tank beneath the deck.
One thing Matt touched on...because they are flat in the stern, there isn't much room under the deck back there...hardly any. These boats weren't engineered to have anything under deck, it was a closed bilge. No access, no pumps, nothing. Outer transom drain and external rubber plug...that was it back then.
So kudos to all of you guys that have rebuilt flatbacks...about the only place to put a tank (tanks) is forward, where the entry begins.
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Good comments and questions Rick. Here are my thoughts/logic (right or wrong).
1. I know many people suggest just using two stringers, and eliminating the center and outer stringers during rebuilds. After all, this is what Aquasport eventually did. I'm not sure what year Aquasport did that, but I'm guessing it was when they went to a modified vee. IMO (and this is purely my opinion), this makes more sense with the modified vee, as the shape of the hull is inherently stiffer than the flatback (due to the "V" versus a large relatively flat area). So, while that little stringer between the bilge and tank area does not transfer load back to front, I believe it will add to the stiffness of the hull, as well as provide some support for the deck. In any case, I don't think it hurts anything other than a little extra cost. With that said, I will be removing part of it for the water tank.
2. The way I am looking at the knees is that their primary function (again, my opinion) is to counteract the torque the motor is putting on the transom. The force of the bracketed motor acts on the upper half of the transom. Without any internal support, the transom would want to rotate about the transom-to-hull joint/axis. The knees react to that torque, and transfer that force to the hull in a direction normal (perpendicular) to the hull. The longer the reacting lever arm (in this case the horizontal leg of my knee), the lower the reaction force on the hull bottom (i.e., Torque = force x distance). So I feel that the size and configuration of my knees should handle the force of the motor pretty well (i.e., minimize transom flex). The other part of the stringer/knee function is to transfer load horizontally as you mention. My sketch doesn't show it, but the fiberglass stringers are trapezoids, and will tie-in more substantially to the front section of the bilge than the sketch shows. So yes, I think it will carry the load quite well.
3. I guess Capt. Matt may have meant inside the console instead of under the floor, but that ain't gonna happen. Even though I don't have a console yet, I can't imagine there will be enough room for the water tank, two batteries, etc. I think below the deck is better for several reasons, such as lower COG, less usable space impact, etc.
I hope my thoughts make sense. I know plenty of rebuilds have been completed differently than mine with great success. But there are always more than one way to skin a cat. And one of the pleasures I'm getting from this rebuild is the ability to be creative, think outside the box, do things a little differently, do things "my" way, etc. If it wasn't fun, it would be hard to keep moving forward!
As I said, I knew you had the background to figure this out :wink:
You're right, all the rebuilds are different in some ways. I was thinking that the forward force on the transom should push the whole hull as one piece - all solid from back to front. I was going to keep the tank coffin as a square and come in with two stringers from the back and leave with two from the front to keep the span between them down but I figured there were too many pieces that could fail, Hence I went with the two long stringers although I cut into them a bit :oops: . I still think they will be strong enough though.
The flooring will also help tie that all together and help the longitudinal strength but not as much I would think as the combo as long stringers and long flooring. My 170 had 3 stringers so I went through this same thought process as you are and I also needed to get the console cleaned out so I could fill it again with other stuff :roll: . The stringers obviously also help stiffen the hull and help against twisting together with the decking. I am still entertaining putting one up front in the middle again.
Right or wrong I'll be the first to know after I take the first cruise :lol:
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Rick,
If I could only say one thing about your boat...it would be that your stringers will be strong enough for anything you throw at it :thumright: . You are doing one heck af a job!
I appreciate your comments/questions/challenges. I've never undertaken a project like this, so many of my thoughts and plans are unproven and are just ideas of how I think it could be done - not necessarily right, wrong, or better. Well, hopefully not wrong. But that's where you guys come in, correcting me where needed.
And thanks Scott - thanks to you, the water tank will be between the fuel tank and the bilge. Good call (literally). I just need to work out how I will route the fill and drain lines for the livewell (like yours), but that seems doable. :thumleft: :thumleft:
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If youre worried about stiffness between the tank and bilge sections, I would just sandwich a core of some kind in the bottom of the hull. A lot less work than building a stringer then cutting it to fit the water tank, and will leave a nice base for the tank too...
3/4 nidacore is what id use, will conform to the hull nicely.
Whats the plan for joining the stringers to the new knee sections?
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Dirt,
That is a good idea with the nidacore...I just may do that :thumright:
I'll try to explain my plan for integrating the knees into the stringers...on the sides of the bilge, the knees will form one side of the associated stringers. The other side of each stringer will be the existing wall of the original stringer. There will be a piece of composite board across rhe front of the bilge (basically a bulkhead). The inner side of the original stringer, forward of this bulkhead, will be glassed to this bulkhead, much like it would have been glassed to the transom. The stringers will then be filled with foam and glassed over the top. I don't know if this makes sense???
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So the knees will become part the inboard side of the stringers as you extend them to the transom.. GOOD idea and use of space! :thumright:
With the water tank in the bilge, the vent hose should run under the deck and up to just under the washboard/gunn’l/cap.
There should be a loop seal (picture sink trap shape ie. U) then rise up to the shape of an inverted J facing aft with a screen on the end.. The idea is that all potable water vents should be inboard and screened to prevent particulates and contaminating fluids (gas/saltwater) from getting inside.
The loop seal is there so that in the event something splashes in it will not go straight into the tank. The vent is below the fill so you can purposefully overfill the tank to;
1. Fill the loop seal.
2. Wash all the gop out of the vent line that was small enough to get through the screen.
The fill can be on the same side as the fuel fill, BUT must be higher than (up hill/forward of) the fuel fill. The most IMPORTANT thing is that the fill for the water tank and gas tank MUST BE COMPLETELY DIFFERENT so heinous accidents by well-intended mates will not happen!!
Water fills normally require a spanner to open (female top) and have WATER stamped or cast in the fitting, and fuel fills on small boats are normally male and have FUEL stamped or cast on them…
:roll: :oops: It might sound obvious but in a previous life as a yard rat I have had to change more than one water tank and have pumped a few diesel tanks….
All this is spelled out in a CFR someplace, I just can’t remember where..
Great progress Craig!! :salut:
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After raising the deck the water tank will fit under the deck under where the console is, at least if the middle stringer is removed. This way your water fill, wash down pump and hose can be under or in the console too,
What do you think of the idea of using PVC pipes inside the pyramid stringers for water storage tanks?
They don't take up any room!!!
One of my main factors to remove the old stringers and go with a two stringer grid system was to gain all that storage under the floor along with making the whole bilge drain to the stern. With the old stringer system you loose so much storage and you will still have to cut drains thru the pyramid foam filled stringers. The last thing i ever wanted to deal with was wet foam again. If you want a bilge that can be laid out with live well pumps , bilge pumps strainers etc the middle stringer is in the way
There is no wrong or right way to build these boats it's all owner preference. Most people are not going to use there boats as much in a lifetime as mine gets used in a year
Matt
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What do you think of the idea of using PVC pipes inside the pyramid stringers for water storage tanks?
They don't take up any room!!!
Now you're thinkin' outside the box (or inside the trapezoid). :idea:
If you could fit a pipe with an ID of 4", 60" in length, you could fit about 6 1/2 gal of water on each side.
Excellent. Different but still excellent. :thumleft:
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Dave, thanks for the great info on the tank vent configuration. As far as the loop seal, I assume the trapped water gets sucked into the tank when the tank level is drawn down and a slight vacuum forms?
Capt. Matt, great points and super suggestion on the PVC tubes inside the stringers! I'm already running my rigging tubes inside the stringers, so not much room left for water tanks in there, but I guess there is no reason they couldn't go between the outboard stringers, right? I would just need to figure out how to support them. I've never had a freshwater tank before, so I'm not sure how much water I will need - the tank I bought holds 16 gallons...is that big enough or do you really think I will need more?
Capt. Bob, if you don't mind, I'd like to "cut and paste" your comment - excellent "outside the box" idea there!
Thanks guys!
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Dave, thanks for the great info on the tank vent configuration. As far as the loop seal, I assume the trapped water gets sucked into the tank when the tank level is drawn down and a slight vacuum forms?
Thanks guys!
Absolutely correct sir!!! :salut:
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What's your plan for the fresh water, just enough to shower to wash the salt off?
If so 10-20 gallons should be plenty even if taking a extended showeri with a female friend
I use a saltwater wash down to keep boat clean while out
Capt Matt
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Craig, I agree with Capt. Matt 10 - 20 gallons is more than sufficient.
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What's your plan for the fresh water, just enough to shower to wash the salt off?
If so 10-20 gallons should be plenty even if taking a extended showeri with a female friend
I use a saltwater wash down to keep boat clean while out
Capt Matt
Mostly just to rinse the salt off. Someday I also may add a misting system too. The tank I have is 16 gallons, so I think I'll stick with that. If I didn't already have it, I'd probably do something with the PVC pipes - that really is a good idea.
Thanks guys :salut:
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Consider the misting system, in addition to the freshwater shower.
We took a look at it...there were misting systems for sale to rig through the T Top. Bottom line, the pump was readily sourced. The spray heads...not so much, more of a challenge, you had to dig...but they were out there.
Take the specs of the available misting "systems" ...and source the components on your own. That's what they did, and added their margin.
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What Scotty said on the misting parts..
:idea:
Take a look here:
http://www.agrimart.net/greenleaf-turbodrop-nozzles/
Start with something like this maybe: (part number) 1/4" (F) Adapter (QJ8355-1/4-NYB then put a nozzle, end cap and diaphragm on and your in.. In a previous life I did aerial application and we had at least a hundred of these around the shop and all kinds of tips for different application rates. They would be really slick for a mister because of the positive shut off. Hanging on a T top, maybe 3 bodies with flat fan tips and your in business..
Or, go to your local Ag supply and let them know you would like about a 20 micron droplet size and tell them the expected operating pressure and see what they hand you..
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Sweet! Thanks for the info :thumleft:
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It's been a long time since any updates. I have not been very good about taking pictures, but here are a few showing where I am at today...
Since I kept the original stringers and am raising the deck a few inches, I made new stringer caps for the main stringers. I also am integrating a fairly large fuel tank, so my stringers are now a little unconventional. Here is one of the caps in the mold.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_2650.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8370&title=stringer-cap&cat=500)
And here it is removed from the mold.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_2654.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8372&title=stringer-cap&cat=500)
On a different thread I had asked about how T-tops and towers are typically mounted to the deck, particularly with the stringers directly under the feet of the top. I got a lot of great responses, some with tapping a backing plate, others with through-bolting, etc. While all good suggestions, I went with through-bolting with notches in the stringers to access the underside of the backing plates. The photo above was my original concept, but since I don't have a tower yet, I decided I need to allow more flexibility for different width towers. So I modified the design and ended up with this.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_2674.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8396&title=222-rebuild&cat=500)
Although I am using poly for most of my rebuild, I attached the stringer caps to the existing stringer bottoms with epoxy. I figure this is a critical joint, so I felt safer using the increased bond strength of epoxy.
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I have 3/8" x 8" wide aluminum plates that get through-bolted to the stringers (I embedded backing plates and nuts inside the stringers) at four locations. I surveyed several members and also some tower fabricators to determine the best locations of the plates. I should be able to accommodate most towers with this layout.
I also made and mounted a tank cradle to adequately support the 72 gallon poly tank I have. They are hard to see, but there are drain holes at each end of the cradle. I glassed a piece of 1/2 nida core to the hull below the fuel tank, and also in the open area between the bilge and the fuel tank. That stuff really stiffens up the hull.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_2672.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8394&title=222-rebuild&cat=500)
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And lastly here is the bilge with integrated knees and a rigging tube (one on each side).
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_2671.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8393&title=222-rebuild&cat=500)
I still need to finish the stringers forward of the gas tank, and then I'll be ready for foam. Then, on to the transom cap. That should be fun :?
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Craig, you've gotten a lot done!
That thing is gonna be a brick house...the bulkheads locked it right down, the glasswork looks great too.
Man...wish the sucker that sold it to you could see it now :mrgreen:
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LOL! Thanks Scott! It's not perfect, but it does feel pretty solid. It's great to feel how much each little change affects the overall structure. From the additional glass on the hull, to the nida core, to the stringers and bulkheads, etc. You could definitely feel the give in the hull when it was just original glass and empty stringers - there was a definite deflection under my feet as I walked on it. And the whole boat would wobble when you shook the sides. Now you can't notice any give in the hull, and it is solid when you shake it. By the time I get done with the rest of the bulkheads and glassing the sides, I hope it really is as solid as a brick house!
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LOL! Thanks Scott! It's not perfect, but it does feel pretty solid. It's great to feel how much each little change affects the overall structure. From the additional glass on the hull, to the nida core, to the stringers and bulkheads, etc. You could definitely feel the give in the hull when it was just original glass and empty stringers - there was a definite deflection under my feet as I walked on it. And the whole boat would wobble when you shook the sides. Now you can't notice any give in the hull, and it is solid when you shake it. By the time I get done with the rest of the bulkheads and glassing the sides, I hope it really is as solid as a brick house!
i noticed the same thing when i loaded my flat back on the trailer a couple weeks ago, before she'd twist and sounded like a hollow can, now she's rock solid and will be more solid once im done glassing all the bulkheads.
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Looking good Craig - those stringers look kick-butt :thumleft:
I finally got to get back into the fiberglass dust today after a month hiatus - felt good and I put a few hours on the console, trimming up the seat and beefing it up a bit.
The cooler weather sure makes it nice to work outside now. :cheers:
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Guys to get her really tight....run a ledger down the inner hull sides for deck support :thumright:
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X2!!! She looks like she will take a hard wave real good :thumright: Like the forethought that you have given the things you've added and beefed up, will make a great difference in the end result :salut:
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Thanks guys! The cooler weather definitely helps. I just want to get the foam in before it gets too cool. I understand that below about 80 degrees it doesn't expand as much. I really hope I don't need to order any more.
I will be adding outer stringers (or ledgers) after I glass the inner hull sides. They will be similar to the original outer stringers, only not as wide (and taller of course).
One bit of information I got from a very reputable aluminum fabricator in the Tampa Bay area is that the problems he has seen regarding mounting towers is not that the tower pulls free from the deck, but that the deck separates from the stringers. I am hoping to avoid that problem by bolting the aluminum backing plates to the stringers, and then bolting the tower to the plate, essentially resulting in bolting the tower to the stringers. At least that is the theory anyway. It may make more sense after I get the tank in and the plates mounted.
And Aaron, how is your flatback coming? We haven't seen pics in a while. You're not going to surprise us with a finished product, are you?
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And Aaron, how is your flatback coming? We haven't seen pics in a while. You're not going to surprise us with a finished product, are you?
LOL, I doubt that Craig! Although when that boy gets a wild hair up his butt, he can put out some work... :shock:
Craig, while undoubtedly that fabricator has seen the situation he talked about many times, with a properly prepped deck and stringer tops, and the proper material, well, that just ain't gonna happen. The key is to make sure the underside of the deck where it meets the stringer tops, the tops of the stringers, and any other mating surfaces are properly prepped, and clean. I've "un-decked" a few boats in my time, NONE of them would have separated from ANY force that a T-Top could have exerted on them. At times (more often than not) we resorted to dragging out the 20 ton pneumatic bottle jacks to separate the deck from the stringers...and when that baby pops, you better be ready!
When people who are putting boats together, do it for a living, know what they are doing and what they are using, trust me, some pissant T-Top ain't gonna make that boat separate... :thumleft: :thumleft:
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I'm sure you are right Bob. He did say it was a rare occurance. I imagine the risk is greater for a tower than a t- top, but it shouldn't happen regardless. While we are on the subject, can you recommend a bonding material for attaching the deck?
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Great point SB. With modern adhesives...and Plexus being the real deal on high-end production...the boat breaks before the bond does.
On the other hand....we all know the best top/tower builder in Tampa.
Because of their expertise, they are also known and respected across the Southeast and Gulf Coast. Am sure they have seen deck/stringer separation given the stress of a big boy wallowing side to side ten feet up in a small boat tower.
Craig, kudos for thinking this through and being proactive regarding what is to follow. Regardless of adhesive....sink that tower straight to the stringers with the aluminum plates. Overkill...nah. The grandkids will be fighting over that Georgia Fireboat fifty years from now :lol:
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And Aaron, how is your flatback coming? We haven't seen pics in a while. You're not going to surprise us with a finished product, are you?
LOL, I doubt that Craig! Although when that boy gets a wild hair up his butt, he can put out some work... :shock:
LOL. had alot go on over the summer that i didnt post about on either board, i just havent had the time or energy to work on it. she's pretty much where i left her back in may. been trying to take care of some other things.
i did do a little work this weekend, added some glass to the outer bulkheads.
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I'm sure you are right Bob. He did say it was a rare occurance. I imagine the risk is greater for a tower than a t- top, but it shouldn't happen regardless. While we are on the subject, can you recommend a bonding material for attaching the deck?
Here...http://www.arjaytech.com/index.php/our- ... nding/4001 (http://www.arjaytech.com/index.php/our-products/core-bonding/4001)
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Excellent, thanks Bob!
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(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_1568.JPG)
Found this on the web.
Google "Flatback Fireboat".....then "Images" :thumright:
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Oh, that fateful day when I picked up the flatback...what the heck was I thinking :shock: :shock: ???
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Maybe----- What a deal!!!!
LOLLOLOL!!!
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Or maybe it was this smooth talkin sales guy!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uh1Hh6-o ... e=youtu.be (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uh1Hh6-o5wc&feature=youtu.be)
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No accoutrements...no accoutrements...
Hmmm, gonna have to think about this one...
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:cheers:
Think Craig did pretty good. He got it for less than asking :lol:
That carney announcer didn't know what he had :flower:
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Lack of accoutrements, Scotty...
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Or lacking, without, etc.
It could have been smoother...the dummy forgot his lines :mrgreen:
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Or lacking, without, etc.
It could have been smoother...the dummy forgot his lines :mrgreen:
Keep practicing, might be able to sell some jewelry some day... :)
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Ouch!
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All in fun Craig, all in fun...
Scotty will tell me, if I keep practicing, someday I might be able to rig a boat!!! But I'm still up on him in the football pool... :cheers:
Going down to Ruskin Monday morn to pick up this little girl, all new electronics, see what I can do...http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... Y2414RZXvA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=mY2414RZXvA)
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That is one beautiful boat!
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Ouch!
Lew and I had fun with this vid 13 months back. He was the director/cameraman, I was the barker :mrgreen: What you see is the only take.
That boat of yours is a honey. Yep it was a bit of a haul....but her history/provenance remains....and to me is pretty darn special.
Looking forward to the next set of pics :thumleft:
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Since this seems to be the season for making molds, I decided to try it myself. My project is a bit simpler than the ones Koz and Carl are doing, but it is my first real attempt at making a mold for something that will be exposed. Baby steps, right? Besides, I will soon be making a mold for my transom cap, and I need to know how thick my transom enclosure doors are going to be so that I can make the proper depth recess. So without further adieu, here is how I am making my transom enclosure doors...
The doors are approximately 12" x 20", and the top of the doors will follow the curvature of the transom cap. It is not much of a curve - the center of the cap is about 1" higher than the sides. Therefore it is hard to notice the curve in the following pictures. Since the doors will be mirror images of each other, I figured the best way to make them symmetric would to make one mold for both sides. I did this by cutting a dado down the center of some melamine and mounting the larger melamine panel right in the center.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_2690.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8481&title=transom-door-mold&cat=500)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_2691.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8482&title=transom-door-mold&cat=500)
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I want the corners of the doors to have a nice radius, so I clamped a 1-1/2" PVC coupling in the corners and packed them with bondo (I left a small gap at the bottom so I could tell when the void was full).
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_2693.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8483&title=transom-door-mold&cat=500)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_2694.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8484&title=transom-door-mold&cat=500)
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I put several coats of wax on the surfaces and then spread clay around the seams. I figure a 1/8" radius should be about right for the edges of the finished door, so I made a little tool to give me a consistent profile. It is a 1/4" tapped brass ball mounted on a 6-32 cap screw. I also have them in 3/8" brass, 1/2" aluminum, and 3/4" nylon for other size radii (some shown here). Lastly I glued a piece of formica to make a recess for the piano hinge.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_2697.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8485&title=transom-door-mold&cat=500)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_2698.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8487&title=transom-door-mold&cat=500)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_2699.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8486&title=transom-door-mold&cat=500)
I still need to add the clay and formica to the other half of the mold and then PVA, gelcoat, etc. I will be using 1/2" nidacore as the core for the doors. Hopefully I'll be able to make a product by the end of this weekend. If anyone sees anything I'm doing wrong, please speak up before I go too far. I'm using the last of my 1/2" nidacore on this project, and I really don't want to buy an entire sheet just to re-do these doors if I screw up!
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Very impressive and simple approach to building the molds!
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Looks like it should work nicely Craig :salut:
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Since this seems to be the season for making molds,
It's like the flu going around! :lol: I really like your solution for the corners, very simple and clean. Please make sure you take lots of pictures, and document it well too. I think we are all on the learning curve with this particular subject.
As a side note, how do you like that Sawstop? My wife has tried to talk me into one, especially after I cut my leg with the chainsaw.
Keep up the good work!
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Thanks guys, I'm trying to do better with pictures, so hopefully I'll be able to provide good documentation.
Carl - as far as the Sawstop saw, my only regret is that I didn't get it sooner. It really is a high quality saw, but the best part is the safety feature. Unfortunately it took cutting off part of my thumb to get me to buy it. IMO, if your wife is trying to convince you to buy one, then the hard part is done and you should be all over that! Heck, it would make a great Christmas gift!
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The only thing I would suggest is a hole right in the middle of the door so you can blow air in and help pop it out.
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That is a good idea Lewis. Only problem is that I am planning on making both doors at essentially the same time. I was planning on just taking the mold apart, as I don't think I will have a need to make more doors of this size. I suppose I could try drilling a hole through the door, and then try drilling a hole from the side (and hope my aim is good), and then try popping them out simultaneously. Worst case is I will need to fall back to plan A. Thanks, for the tip! I'll give it a go!
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I like the idea of the bondo in the corners so you wouldn't need to sand much at all. The hole in the center would help getting it out of the mold but since you will have to take the sides off the mold it should come out easily. I wish the HD had the melamine around here.
From what I see you should have really nice doors with little cleanup. :cheers:
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You just going with 2 large doors in the cabinet not 3?
Capt Matt
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I like the idea of the bondo in the corners so you wouldn't need to sand much at all. The hole in the center would help getting it out of the mold but since you will have to take the sides off the mold it should come out easily. I wish the HD had the melamine around here.
From what I see you should have really nice doors with little cleanup. :cheers:
Thanks fish. The pvc fitting makes the bondo super smooth - no sanding required there at all. Most of this project has been two steps forward and one step back. I originally made this mold with pine sides and I used bondo for the fillets. That bondo required some sanding, and of course the pine took the brunt of it. So I tore it apart and redid it with the melamine sides and used clay. Much better product so far.
I did add a hole in the center after Lewis's recommendation above. It was easier than I expected - I drilled a hole from the side to about the center of the panel, then used a magnet to find the drill bit so that I knew where to drill the holes on each side of the panel. Filled the surface of the holes with clay, so hopefully it won't leave much of an indication in the gelcoat. I'm not sure if it is going to work, as I have no bevel in the form, so I may end up taking the sides off anyway. But it is worth a shot!
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You just going with 2 large doors in the cabinet not 3?
Capt Matt
Good question Capt. Matt. I originally had planned to add 3. But then I decided to add a small crustation well in the center of the cabinet, so that would block most of the center opening. I'm certainly open to advice - what do you think?
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Love it! Love the PVC/bondo corner trick. Looks like they will be some awesome doors. The rounding tools will come in handy as I have to make doors myself. Great ideas. Thanks for sharing. Looks like they will come out awesome. What about a latch? do these have anything to hold the doors shut? I see the recess for the hinge which is good thinking and will give you a professional look. Cant wait to see them popped out
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Since this seems to be the season for making molds,
It's like the flu going around! :lol:
:cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :thumright: :thumright:
Sorry Carl dont know what your talking about LOL
Its awesome to see everyone giving it a go! We all have the ability to do whatever we want to out boats. All we needed was a little direction and motivation. Looks great Craig!!!
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Love it! Love the PVC/bondo corner trick. Looks like they will be some awesome doors. The rounding tools will come in handy as I have to make doors myself. Great ideas. Thanks for sharing. Looks like they will come out awesome. What about a latch? do these have anything to hold the doors shut? I see the recess for the hinge which is good thinking and will give you a professional look. Cant wait to see them popped out
Thanks Koz! I have some stainless Southco slam latches for the doors. If you want to make some of those filleting tools, look on ebay for the balls. I think I'm averaging about a buck a tool when considering the balls and high strength screws (from Fastenal). They make working with clay super easy.
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Guys, enjoying from the sidelines. The new technology is awesome :thumright:
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I used a variety of popsicle sticks which is a low tech version of the same idea.... rounded edges
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6966.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6966.jpg.html)
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/IMG_6968.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/IMG_6968.jpg.html)
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That will certainly work too, koz. One thing about the balls though is that they make the same profile no matter what angle you hold the handle. Just a little extra insurance I guess.
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Yes, definitely true. You have to hold the sticks perpendicular where you can get real sloppy with the ball end and it will always stay true. Great point. Keep up the great work and keep it coming. It's a long winter up north so I'm relying on all the warmer states projects to keep me from going nuts lol
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Doors just make for easy access to where the rigging tubes come up inside the cabinet, I did 3 doors as my stringer knees are as wide as the cabinet so it's 3 separate compartments. I use this space for hydro pumps (porta lift' power pole ), wash down pump, fire ext and storage for ropes, rain gear etc.
I like the small live well idea
Capt Matt
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Craig, what are your thoughts for accessing the bolts for the bracket? I also plan on adding an 8 or 10 gallon baitwell in the transom, but I am uncertain about the very limited access to the bolts. :scratch:
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That's the size transom livewell I'm looking at also, along with the livewell seat like you are building. Unlike typical motor mounting, the bolts for a porta bracket are inserted from the outside (according to pics on the porta bracket website), so I figure I only need to leave enough room between the inside transom surface and the livewell for the nuts and maybe a couple of inches of exposed bolts. As far as accessing them, my knees aren't terribly deep, so I think I can reach the nuts with a long handled tool through the doors I'm making. But I am going to draw it out more accurately before I make the enclosure. I may have to make a drop-in livewell and install it after the bracket is on if it looks too tight. Thanks for the great question Carl- you really have me thinking about this now :? !
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Doors just make for easy access to where the rigging tubes come up inside the cabinet, I did 3 doors as my stringer knees are as wide as the cabinet so it's 3 separate compartments. I use this space for hydro pumps (porta lift' power pole ), wash down pump, fire ext and storage for ropes, rain gear etc.
I like the small live well idea
Capt Matt
Good points Capt. Matt. My cad drawings for the enclosure are at work, and I can't remember how much access there is to the bilge with the livewell in the way. I need to play with the drawings with your suggestion and Carl's question in mind. I do think it would look better with the third door - not as much bare real estate in the center there.
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Craig, if your 2 outboard compartments allow you to reach to the center of the transom, you'll have room to get at the nuts for the Porta-bracket mntng bots. Obviously, by yourself, you can't hold the wrench while at the same time tightening the bolt up. So what I do is put a pair of vise grips on the nut, then tighten up from the outside. The vise grips will wedge itself against the knee or whatever and you can tighten the bolts no problem.
Don't know what kind of hardware Porta supplies, but you definitely want lock nuts. I also highly recommend 1/4" aluminum backing plates spanning the top bolts and the bottom bolts. Seeing as the bracket creates a lever effect by moving the origin of the force aft, there is quite a bit more stress on the transom than if the motor alone was bolted to it.
Actually, I think a Porta-brackets uses 6 bolts to secure it...
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Bob,
Good tips and advice on the backing plate. I will definitely use the backing plates. I believe the porta bracket actually uses 12 mounting bolts - six for the top hinge and six for the bottom. Two 1/4 x 8 x 20 aluminum plates should work nicely as the backing plates. I think I have one already :thumright: .
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Sorry Craig, I've only had 1 boat here with a Porta bracket, and since it was already installed, I didn't pay much attention to it...
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No problem Bob!
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A porta bracket comes with backing plates just no nuts, washers and bolts
Keep in mind the where the deck hits the transom in correspondence to where the lower bolts need to go for optimum performance of the bracket.
Mine is mounted so it's parallel at running height and water pick ups are just underwater when all the way up at idle.
When ordering your bracket they will ask you for transom measurements
Capt Matt
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Man you are hauling the mail on your rebuild. I can not believe how much you have completed already. Looks good too, thinking about sandbagging a little so I can steal some ideas :D
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Thanks Ryan, steal away! That's how I got most of my ideas!
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I think that is how most of us get our ideas! :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Yup, if not here, somewhere else :mrgreen:
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Craig, how are those doors coming along? Did ya get them figured out?
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Did you get the foaming done?
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Craig, how are those doors coming along? Did ya get them figured out?
Sorry I haven't posted pics or an update on the doors. I'll try to do so tonight, but in short they didn't turn out quite as bad as I was expecting, but they are definitely not perfect. Hopefully they are salvagable....
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Did you get the foaming done?
Not exactly. I spent Friday making a run to FGCI in St. Pete to pick up enough Nidacore to finish my deck, as well as a few other supplies. I also picked up a 1/2 gallon 2# foam kit for the center stringer forward of the fuel tank (will not be supporting the deck, so I opted for the less-dense foam (my stringers are not as beefy as yours)). I did pour that Friday afternoon. Then Saturday was soccer day with the kids, and Sunday was a birthday party in Spring Hill. Just not enough time in the week, especially with it getting dark so early.
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Sorry I haven't posted pics or an update on the doors. I'll try to do so tonight, but in short they didn't turn out quite as bad as I was expecting, but they are definitely not perfect. Hopefully they are salvagable....
I'm sure they are. :cheers: My livewell shell didn't exactly meet my expectations, but a little elbow grease and all is right in the world. I hope you post pics, but then again I have said I would post pics and not gotten around to it also. :roll: :oops:
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Sorry I haven't posted pics or an update on the doors. I'll try to do so tonight, but in short they didn't turn out quite as bad as I was expecting, but they are definitely not perfect. Hopefully they are salvagable....
I'm sure they are. :cheers: My livewell shell didn't exactly meet my expectations, but a little elbow grease and all is right in the world. I hope you post pics, but then again I have said I would post pics and not gotten around to it also. :roll: :oops:
Ok, so here are some pics of the doors. If you recall, I made a 2-sided form, so two symmetric doors were made before I broke down the mold and got a look at the product. I did try to use air to pop them out of the mold without disassembling it, but due to no taper and more stickiness on the bondo than expected, that wasn't happening.
After waxing, spraying PVA, and then gel coat, my initial plan was to lay in 3/4 oz mat, 1708, 1/2" nidacore, fill the gap around the edges of the nidacore with thickened resin, then a layer of 1708, and fold the mat and first layer of 1708 over the nidacore and second layer of 1708, all before the resin kicked. This was fairly challenging and I feared that I might end up with voids along the front edges. So the second side I just made a "shell" with the gel coat, 3/4 oz mat, and 1708. I still need to level the inside surface, glue in the nidacore, and add a layer of 1708.
Here is the first door. I tapped lightly along the edges and it sounds solid, so hopefully no voids.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_2861.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8711&title=flatback-rebuild&cat=500)
And here is the second
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_2862.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8712&title=flatback-rebuild&cat=500)
Notice the crappy edges. I think this is called "alligatoring"
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_2859.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8710&title=flatback-rebuild&cat=500)
I believe that is due to the gel coat on the edges being too thin. I used brushable gel coat, but I couldn't get it to hang on the vertical surfaces of the mold very well. Ended up doing a couple of coats, but obviously not enough. I'm hoping this is repairable.
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Here are the back sides of the doors
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_2865.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8714&title=flatback-rebuild&cat=500)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_2863.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8713&title=flatback-rebuild&cat=500)
And here's the front sides of them together. The curved top is pretty subtle - this is really the only way to see it.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_2866.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8715&title=flatback-rebuild&cat=500)
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Not bad Craig. Look very solid. :salut:
Is it what you wanted?
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Not bad Craig. Look very solid. :salut:
Is it what you wanted?
Well, I did want the "solid"...but I really didn't want the messed up edges :( .
I'm going to attempt to fix the edges. If that doesn't work, I'll try it again from step 1. I bought another sheet of 1/2" nidacore last week, so I have plenty of core material left.
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Well, I did want the "solid"...but I really didn't want the messed up edges :( .
I'm going to attempt to fix the edges. If that doesn't work, I'll try it again from step 1. I bought another sheet of 1/2" nidacore last week, so I have plenty of core material left.
That's how we learn. I guess the beauty of my neanderthal approach using drop cloths as a peel ply is that I knew how they were going to come out :mrgreen: I knew they weren't going to be pretty and would need some lovin'. Of course I need to do the gelcoat thing backwards from your approach. :cry:
Hey, learning is a good thing. Don't stop.
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Yep, definitely a learning experience. This is my first time using gelcoat. I'm glad I started with something small. Hopefully I'll get better at this with the other things I'll be making.
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Craig, easy fix! :cheers: Sand it down and add some gel to it.
They look good. I mean, you saw the disaster I had with the leaning post... Those doors are good to go. :salut:
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Don't beat yourself up with the alligatoring it's pretty common. Just add some thickening agent to your gel coat and apply it the sanded edge of your hatch doors. Then sand it down and you and nobody else will be able to tell. :cheers:
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Thanks for the encouragement, guys! I never thought of adding a thickening agent to the gelcoat - I guess cabosil should work?
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Thanks for the encouragement, guys! I never thought of adding a thickening agent to the gelcoat - I guess cabosil should work?
:thumright:
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That's exactly what happened to me in a few spots. I thickened gel coat with West Systems 404. The difference is that it is stronger than cabosil not that this is a structural repair. Cabosil is easier to sand as well I believe. They make a 407 which is less stronger than the 404 but it is bondo red which will not work too well with white gel coat. Point is you can thicken gel coat and fill it all in today, tomorrow or 5 years from now. That's the beauty of gel coat. So learning how to work with it now is good practice for fixing any other ding on your boat now or in the future.
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Beautiful weather today, so I put the doors on hold and worked some on the boat. I managed to finish with the fuel tank. I mounted 3/8" neoprene strips for the bottom, and 1/4" strips for the sides. I read somewhere online that the rubber should have a minimum Shore A durometer hardness of 40, which is what I went with. I used contact cement to attach the strips, and I also countersank a screw in each to give some positive position control.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_2716.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8741&title=22-2-rebuild&cat=500)
Then I mounted 3/8" aluminum plates to the stringers. These will give the top/tower something to mount to (there is a 1-1/4" gap beneath the plates for thru-bolting). I had to mount these before I can foam the stringers because they are thru-bolted to the stringer tops. Now that I have the nuts on the back side I can foam away.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_2718.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8742&title=22-2-rebuild&cat=500)
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Whoa, that's some mac-daddy aluminum :shock:
The tank cradle looks great Craig, good idea on the screw in each pad. :salut: What is the plan on securing it?
Coming along, coming along. (and you're right the weather was sweet today here)
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Beauty work Craig! I take it you are drilling and tapping the aluminum for the t-top legs. Yes, you could "open up the holes a bit" and drive in #14 oval heads lag screws to hold her down, they wouldn't go anywhere, but...the purists, you know...
The tank "hold down" is the easy part. Get some 1/4" aluminum L-brackets, say 1" X 2". Cut starboard to create spacers between the L-brackets pushed all the way into the tank recesses and the stringers, then lag the vertical of the brackets (and the starboard spacers) into the stringers. No cross members, no aluminum straps, none of that chit.
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Really nice :salut: Should hold anything you want to attach!! From the looks of the fit, you prolly won't need tank hold downs, the deck should take care of every thing :P
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Thanks guys. I haven't decided yet how I will hold it down. There may be only about an inch of clearance between the tank and the deck at the rear end, but it is more like 4" at the forward end, so I think I need to do something. I do like Bob's idea -clean and simple. My other thoughts are glassing-in a triangle at each corner or glassing stand-offs on the underside of the deck. Right now I'm leaning towards Bob's idea :thumleft:
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I take it you are drilling and tapping the aluminum for the t-top legs. Yes, you could "open up the holes a bit" and drive in #14 oval heads lag screws to hold her down, they wouldn't go anywhere, but...the purists, you know...
The tower manufacturers I spoke to were comfortable with drilling and tapping 1/4" aluminum, so my 3/8" plates should be more than adequate, but I still plan to thru-bolt them. I just feel more comfortable with a stainless nut on the underside of the aluminum versus the relatively soft aluminum threads. Getting to the underside of the plate, however, is going to be the hard part. I'm hoping the hatch for the gas tank connections will be close enough to reach them, but we will see.
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Craig, trust me, you'll be fine just with the bolts. Use a Loctite product that is NOT so incredibly strong that it will make it damn near impossible to remove the bolts at a later age should you need to.
Another thing I have done many times is use 5200 as a lubricant/thread sealer. Once the 5200 fully cures, the bolts will not loosen...
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Craig, the old gal is looking great!
That idea of SB's on the tank mounts makes great sense if follow correctly. Bob, are you saying six flat L brackets mounted to the stringers, then starboard spacers on the tank top in the six tank indentions?
Craig, this may be something you're planning to add later, but thought would ask. Will there be drain holes in the base of the individual compartments, similar to what Rick did in PVC?
Edit: Think the correct term is limber holes.
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Craig, the old gal is looking great!
That idea of SB's on the tank mounts makes great sense if follow correctly. Bob, are you saying six flat L brackets mounted to the stringers, then starboard spacers on the tank top in the six tank indentions?
Craig, this may be something you're planning to add later, but thought would ask. Will there be drain holes in the base of the individual compartments, similar to what Rick did in PVC?
Scotty, the opposite. Move the L-brackets as far inboard on the tank indentations, then the starboard spacers in between the verticals of the brackets and the stringers. We did this both at Stamas and at PL...
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Gotcha! :thumright:
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Craig, I see that the plates are bolted into the stringers. I looked back to see if you talked about or showed your plan but couldn't find anything. How are they attached to the stringers?
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Craig, the old gal is looking great!
That idea of SB's on the tank mounts makes great sense if follow correctly. Bob, are you saying six flat L brackets mounted to the stringers, then starboard spacers on the tank top in the six tank indentions?
Craig, this may be something you're planning to add later, but thought would ask. Will there be drain holes in the base of the individual compartments, similar to what Rick did in PVC?
Scotty, the opposite. Move the L-brackets as far inboard on the tank indentations, then the starboard spacers in between the verticals of the brackets and the stringers. We did this both at Stamas and at PL...
Thanks Scotty! The only addition I would do to SB's concept is to put some neoprene between the aluminum and the tank.
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Craig, I see that the plates are bolted into the stringers. I looked back to see if you talked about or showed your plan but couldn't find anything. How are they attached to the stringers?
Rick,
Before I glassed the stringer caps into the boat, I glassed in some aluminum backing plates on the inside. I also glassed in some washers and locknuts so that I could attach the outer plates without needing to get to the inside of the stringers. This didn't work quite as well as I had planned, so I had to cut 1" holes at a few of the locations to access the nuts. No problem, I'll just glass over them like I'll do with the foam holes.
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ahHAA - good planning. Did I miss that or were you holding back on that :scratch: :D
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ahHAA - good planning. Did I miss that or were you holding back on that :scratch: :D
I actually gave it a brief mention back on page 11. I'm trying not to keep any secrets - I want you guys to know what I'm doing so you can stop me before I do anything really stupid :shock: .
And to answer your other question - each compartment has holes for drainage, but they are kind of hard to see in the pics. And the tank cradle has 4 holes - 2 on each end, that drain into the compartment below.
I managed to fill the stringers about 80% with foam today. I need to finish closing in the front few feet of the main stringers before I can finish foaming. The 80# foam kit is gonna be close....
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ahHAA - good planning. Did I miss that or were you holding back on that :scratch: :D
I actually gave it a brief mention back on page 11. I'm trying not to keep any secrets - I want you guys to know what I'm doing so you can stop me before I do anything really stupid :shock: .
You know I was just kidding :D I must have missed that :roll:
The foaming is pretty tense on the first pour, isn't it. Takes a couple to get the hang of it.
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Good deal :thumright:
Knew Rick was joshing regarding the "secrets" ....just having fun and being a fellow member :thumright: As compared to his other job.
Have studied your stringer layout/fab, compartments, etc. She's stout! Looking forward to your plans for the hull side deck support.
Will you run box-style wings....or go with longitudinals/hangers on the hull sides?
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ahHAA - good planning. Did I miss that or were you holding back on that :scratch: :D
I actually gave it a brief mention back on page 11. I'm trying not to keep any secrets - I want you guys to know what I'm doing so you can stop me before I do anything really stupid :shock: .
You know I was just kidding :D I must have missed that :roll:
The foaming is pretty tense on the first pour, isn't it. Takes a couple to get the hang of it.
Of course I didn't take you seriously Rick! But I am serious - if you guys see me doing something absolutely wrong, let me know!
And yes, the pucker factor was up on the first couple pours. But after that it was pretty easy. There is actually more time than to mix it and pour it than I expected.
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Good deal :thumright:
Knew Rick was joshing regarding the "secrets" ....just having fun and being a fellow member :thumright: As compared to his other job.
Have studied your stringer layout/fab, compartments, etc. She's stout! Looking forward to your plans for the hull side deck support.
Will you run box-style wings....or go with longitudinals/hangers on the hull sides?
I am going to make some L-shaped longitudinal stringers, much like the original outer stringers, but not as wide. They will be maybe 2 or 3 inches wide. I was originally going to foam them as well, but now I think I may just make them extra stout and leave out the foam.
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Good choice. Nothing like solid glass where it matters.
Not only will it give strong deck support...but will also stiffen the hull-sides.
A noticeable physical change between production boats and our custom builds is side strength and rigidity. Take your fist and beat on production boats above the chines, then up the sides. Do the same to our rebuilds as produced lately. Huge difference, especially if cored.
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yeehaw! Got the stringers all foamed in - had about 8 ounces of each part left (from a 10 gallon kit). Feels good to have that behind me :cheers:
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8) one more check mark :thumleft:
10 gal, that's a bunch of foam :shock:
Congrats - a milestone for sure. :cheers:
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Weather hasn't been great here lately, so got a little work done in the garage. First I took my first shot at a baitwell. This will be the crustacean well in the transom cap. It is 18" x 10" at the top, and 17.5" x 9.5" at the bottom, and should hold about 10 gallons. I started with the form, which I wrapped with formica.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_2723.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8969&title=livewell&cat=500)
Unfortunately the only formica I had on hand had a subtle pattern to it - a bunch of tiny holes in a grid pattern. I figured I would spray the whole thing with high build primer to fill the holes. I also made some starboard pieces so that I could recess the bottom drain as well as a light.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_2725.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8970&title=livewell&cat=500)
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I then sanded it, sprayed several coats of clear polyurethane, and applied several coats of wax. I added some starboard pieces so that I could recess the bottom drain as well as a light, and sprayed several coats of PVA. Then I tinted some gel coat a light blue and applied it followed by 2 layers of 3/4 oz mat and 2 layers of 1808.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_2731.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8972&title=livewell&cat=500)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_2733.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8973&title=livewell&cat=500)
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I figured with the prep and the taper, it should pop out of the mold easily, right? Wrong. What a PITA that was. Although I thought I did a good job sealing the joint between the formica and the bottom piece of wood, apparently I didn't and it didn't want to let go. When I finally got it apart (by destroying the mold), about 30% of the primer was stuck to the gelcoat. I was able to sand it off pretty easily, but now I need to apply another layer of gel coat. Overall it doesn't look too bad as it is.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_2933.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8974&title=livewell&cat=500)
And here is the light
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_2935.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8975&title=livewell-light&cat=500)
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I also made some starboard pieces so that I could recess the bottom drain as well as a light.
Remember who's asking.
Should there be a slight "indent" on the form bottom to allow for light wiring?
Edit: Guess I was a little late with my question.
Edit #2: Thought the light was in the bottom.
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I also got to work on the form for the transom cap
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_2729.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8976&title=transom-cap-mold&cat=500)
I'm using melamine for the wide area at the back, and I'm also going to replace about a foot and a half of the gunnel. To match the width/shape/contour of the gunnel, I boxed in area I will be replacing and used some expanding foam to make that part of the form.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_2742.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8977&title=transom-cap-mold&cat=500)
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:thumright:
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Here is what the underside of it looks like
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_2930.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8978&title=transom-cap-mold&cat=500)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_2932.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8978&title=transom-cap-mold&cat=500)
I will need to do some prep work before I can glass it, but it is a start....
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GREAT looking work Craig :!: :!: :salut:
I've not got much work done lately but did work the build up stuff around the rod holders inserts - borrrrrringggggg stuff.
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I also made some starboard pieces so that I could recess the bottom drain as well as a light.
Remember who's asking.
Should there be a slight "indent" on the form bottom to allow for light wiring?
Edit: Guess I was a little late with my question.
Edit #2: Thought the light was in the bottom.
I guess my wording could have been better...drain on the bottom, light on the side. I will also have an overflow and supply fitting on one of the flat sides.
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GREAT looking work Craig :!: :!: :salut:
I've not got much work done lately but did work the build up stuff around the rod holders inserts - borrrrrringggggg stuff.
Thanks Rick! Yes, there are some parts of these projects that lack excitement, but overall a very rewarding experience :thumleft: !
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You could use a drain tube to control water overflow level
I can't stand this type of drain in a baitfish live well but for crabs and shrimp it will work good and make plumbing easy
Capt Matt
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Craig looks good. I can't wait to see you pop that transom cap out.
My form on my livewell stuck too. Man was it a bitch to get out and clean up. :mrgreen:
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You could use a drain tube to control water overflow level
I can't stand this type of drain in a baitfish live well but for crabs and shrimp it will work good and make plumbing easy
Capt Matt
I have that type of drain on my 205. It is simple and functional, but a pain when you only have a couple fish left in the well and you have to chase them around the standpipe. Even though the main purpose of this tank will be for shrimp and crabs, there may be times when I only have a handful of baitfish and just use this tank instead of the bigger one. So with that in mind, I'm perfectly fine with the bit of extra work with the separate overflow.
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Craig looks good. I can't wait to see you pop that transom cap out.
My form on my livewell stuck too. Man was it a bitch to get out and clean up. :mrgreen:
Thanks fish. I've only made a few things with forms so far, and each has tried my patience. But it is still one of the most rewarding things I've done so far on the rebuild. I'm hoping to get the transom cap form ready to go by next weekend...keeping my fingers crossed that it goes smoothly!
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You could use a drain tube to control water overflow level
I can't stand this type of drain in a baitfish live well but for crabs and shrimp it will work good and make plumbing easy
Capt Matt
I have that type of drain on my 205. It is simple and functional, but a pain when you only have a couple fish left in the well and you have to chase them around the standpipe. Even though the main purpose of this tank will be for shrimp and crabs, there may be times when I only have a handful of baitfish and just use this tank instead of the bigger one. So with that in mind, I'm perfectly fine with the bit of extra work with the separate overflow.
Have two different height standpipes, they both screw in. So when the bait gets down to a few, screw in the shorter standpipe. Lightens up the weight load too.
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Looks like the Fireboat is coming along nicely! :salut:
I highly recommend putting the livewell light in the bottom of the livewell shining the light up. That way the baits cant hide in the darkness. :idea:
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Looks like the Fireboat is coming along nicely! :salut:
I highly recommend putting the livewell light in the bottom of the livewell shining the light up. That way the baits cant hide in the darkness. :idea:
Thanks Nando! Interesting suggestion on the light location. I don't think there will be any dark spots on this little bait well, but the next one (the leaning post livewell) may be a different story. Does your livewell have lights in the bottom shooting up? I can't say that I've ever seen one that way....wouldn't it tend to blind a person looking down into the tank? :scratch:
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Does your livewell have lights in the bottom shooting up? I can't say that I've ever seen one that way....wouldn't it tend to blind a person looking down into the tank? :scratch:
I'm not speaking for BA but since I asked about your mold earlier, I did so because my Pro Flo (Kodiak) bait tank light is located on the bottom. Poly construction, it has a "dome" molded into the bottom with a depression (for wiring) running from the center to the side. Since the poly (whitish color) has translucent properties, the filament glare is greatly reduced.
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Craig,
Yes, the lights (2) I currently have in my livewell are on the bottom and are pointed up and I have no issue with being blinded. They are blue LED lights. My pervious light was mid tank, similar to the photo you posted and it was impossible to catch bait due to the fact the bait would hide in the dark below the light.
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CB - now I understand your previous question better.... I guess the depression for the wiring is so that you don't need to access the bottom of the tank if you have to replace the light?
Nando - thanks for the info. What material is your tank? Just a thought here...if your tank is poly, maybe it isn't as reflective as say a fiberglass tank with shiny gel coat? I know, maybe a stretch, but I'm hoping my blue led will reflect nicely off the light blue interior and not have dead spots. I will consider the bottom mounted lights on the bigger leaning post livewell though.
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CB -I guess the depression for the wiring is so that you don't need to access the bottom of the tank if you have to replace the light?
No, it allows the tank to sit flat on the mounting surface (rather than crushing the wires. You still need to unbolt the tank and lean it to the side to access the light.
You're starting to get the hang of this molding business. Stuff's lookin' good. :thumright:
Good luck.
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What material is your tank? Just a thought here...if your tank is poly, maybe it isn't as reflective as say a fiberglass tank with shiny gel coat? I know, maybe a stretch, but I'm hoping my blue led will reflect nicely off the light blue interior and not have dead spots. I will consider the bottom mounted lights on the bigger leaning post livewell though.
It's made of fiberglass and finished in gel and it is approximately 4ft deep.
(http://i1109.photobucket.com/albums/h437/fbueno2/IMG_1220.jpg) (http://s1109.photobucket.com/user/fbueno2/media/IMG_1220.jpg.html)
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CB -I guess the depression for the wiring is so that you don't need to access the bottom of the tank if you have to replace the light?
No, it allows the tank to sit flat on the mounting surface (rather than crushing the wires. You still need to unbolt the tank and lean it to the side to access the light.
You're starting to get the hang of this molding business. Stuff's lookin' good. :thumright:
Good luck.
Thanks CB!
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What material is your tank? Just a thought here...if your tank is poly, maybe it isn't as reflective as say a fiberglass tank with shiny gel coat? I know, maybe a stretch, but I'm hoping my blue led will reflect nicely off the light blue interior and not have dead spots. I will consider the bottom mounted lights on the bigger leaning post livewell though.
It's made of fiberglass and finished in gel and it is approximately 4ft deep.
(http://i1109.photobucket.com/albums/h437/fbueno2/IMG_1220.jpg) (http://s1109.photobucket.com/user/fbueno2/media/IMG_1220.jpg.html)
That is one big livewell! I can see how you might have blind spots in a tank that large. When I bought my livewell lights, I got one for the small livewell and two for the big one. I think that would eliminate blindspots, whether it be one on each side or on either end of the bottom. How would you replace the light if it ever fails? Would you need to essentially remove it like CB's?
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Looking awesome Craig! That transom tank came out sweet!
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That is one big livewell! I can see how you might have blind spots in a tank that large. When I bought my livewell lights, I got one for the small livewell and two for the big one. I think that would eliminate blindspots, whether it be one on each side or on either end of the bottom. How would you replace the light if it ever fails? Would you need to essentially remove it like CB's?
Craig, keep in mind that you are not going to have pool water in the livewell. For me fishing at night means summertime, which means the water is much cloudier due to the water temp. Look forward to more progress on your build. :thumleft:
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Made some progress on the transom enclosure this weekend. I added some MDF and starboard to make the pockets for the doors and livewell lid:
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_2747.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9148&title=transom-cap&cat=500)
And spent all day Friday glassing it. It has 3/4 oz mat and two layers of 1708 on top, then 3/4" nida core, and two more layers of 1708. The edges got a couple more layers mixed in. The vertical face where the doors are at has 3/4 oz mat, two layers of 1808, 3/4" coosa, and another layer of 1808. I probably could have used nida core for this instead of the coosa, but I had some laying around and I'm not sure how well nida core would hold up in this orientation. Here it is after I popped it from the mold this afternoon (it obviously needs a good bit of cleaning up):
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_2753.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9145&title=transom-cap&cat=500)
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Here is a shot from the back. You can see where the livewell is mounted, as well as some coosa pads for the cleats:
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_2756.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9144&title=transom-cap&cat=500)
Here is one of the problems I have...I did not do a good job getting the glass to conform to one edge of the door recess. This happened on both doors. The MDF is still in place. Can I just fill that gap with thickened resin? Or am I screwed and need to move on to plan "B", which is non-recessed doors?
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_2755.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9143&title=transom-cap&cat=500)
I also have some work to do on the corners and edges, but I am pretty pleased with the way the large surfaces came out.
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Wow, very nice Craig. I know you're still in awe that it came out at all (I would be) :wink: :salut: :salut:
Remember that you can use thickened resin or even bondo (which is poly and what I'm using to patch the liner) to fix anything on these things - if it's not structural (which the door stuff isn't) you can do what ever you want.
I did mat and resin to fill in the gaps on my hatches and now wish I would have just used bondo - WAYYYYY easier. Bondo is a little porous but when you gel coat it after all ......
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Wow, very nice Craig. I know you're still in awe that it came out at all (I would be) :wink: :salut: :salut:
Remember that you can use thickened resin or even bondo (which is poly and what I'm using to patch the liner) to fix anything on these things - if it's not structural (which the door stuff isn't) you can do what ever you want.
I did mat and resin to fill in the gaps on my hatches and now wish I would have just used bondo - WAYYYYY easier. Bondo is a little porous but when you gel coat it after all ......
LOL, yes, I get pretty excited when anything I make comes out somewhat useable! I am certainly gaining a healthy respect for those that do this for a living! Thanks for the advice on filling the gap. Hopefully I can address that one night this week. :thumleft:
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Looks great Craig! I have not had time to go back and read all the updates on your build but did look at the progress pics. I look forward to getting caught up on your build.
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Looking for recommendations here....Hopefully in the near future I will making the deck, using the MDF method like jrm1 did. I will be using 2 layers of glass on each side of the nidacore panels. One layer on each side will be 1708 (-45/+45 degree weave). Would I be better off if the other layer on each side is 1808 (0/90 degree weave)? Or should the other layer be another layer of 1708?
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In my research I found that the 1708 handles the torsion quite well. Adding 1808 didn't add much strength. I did mix the 2 on several other things but on the deck I used a couple layers of 1708.
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That sucks about the gaps around the doors after all that work. Just take your time next time with the mold every minute you spend on details to get it just right will save a tremendous amount of time fairing and repairs.
I spent a couple weeks over a few months getting my mold just right and could have spent a few more hours on it but could not handle it any more and laid some glass in it. :wink:
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Fish, I think the mold was fine. I think the problem was in my execution of laying in the glass. I tried to do everything wet on wet, so I rushed and did not get the glass to conform to the mold properly. I've got to learn to be more patient.
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You're using poly right Craig? That stuff doesn't give you much working time for sure - maybe putting it in a cooler of ice might help they say. That's the beauty and curse of epoxy - great working time, usually way too much. Although I did have some start to kick off in the bucket today - summer is here.
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Forgot to ask - any progress? We need more aqua porn :D
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Forgot to ask - any progress? We need more aqua porn :D
I'm making slow progress on the boat. Friday I glassed in the port hull side with a layer of 3/4 oz mat, 2 layers of 1708, and another layer of 3/4 oz mat. I still need to trim the top edge and do the other side. I'm hoping it comes out close to the stiffness that Scotty got on the Miss D. I know Scotty used coremat or something else, but this is what Eugene recommended for me doing it as a one-man show. The pic isn't great, but I think it came out pretty good.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_3343.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9906&title=222-rebuild&cat=500)
I also glassed the exterior transom cutout. I used vinylester for this part. Still a lot of fairing to do and I'm not sure I built up the cutout enough to be even with the original surface.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_3347.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9905&title=222-rebuild&cat=500)
Also, I mentioned in some other threads that I purchased a console and am having a tower made. I know, this is way premature for where I'm at in the rebuild process, but fellow member randy56100 is getting his own aluminum fabrication shop going and offered a darn good deal. So I think it is a win-win. He sent me some pics today of where he is at, and I don't think we get enough tower porn in these threads, so here is what we have so far:
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/tower_2.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9903&title=half-tower-in-progress&cat=500)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/tower_1.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9902&title=half-tower-in-progress&cat=500)
My first impression when I saw the pics is "wow, that's a lot of bow in those legs!". But after I looked at it a little bit, I think it is going to look pretty cool!
I need some advice for the color of the sunbrella top. I think the boat will be either all white or white with seafoam green sides. Any suggestions on a color that will go with either paint job?
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Craig, excellent, you are doing our ol' gal proud!
Great job on the sides...we used coremat, but as you say had a helper or two. Advantage of the coremat, easy to finish. Disadvantage, thickness. Eugene gave you good advice, the pic looks great. Nice and even, and should buildup/prime like a champ. Are you going with gel or paint inside?
Good deal on the tower too...He does pretty work, and I'm with you, like the curves a lot. The shape of the curvature will compliment the lines of the hull IMHO. Randy, great to have a top/tower/post guy here :thumright:
Re the top canvas...Guess am a little partial, but still happy with the choice we made. Carolyn even mentioned yesterday how she liked it. And given your question/thinking, could work well on yours.
Light seafoam green underneath....eggshell white/cream up above facing the sun.
Nice work :thumright:
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Thanks guys I appreciate it a lot! There is a lot of bow in the legs. Honestly I think it looks like theirs more in the pictures than in person. But regardless I think its coming out great. The tower looks "fast" as we would say in the fabrication world. But its a good looking top. I'll keep Craig updated with pictures to share!
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Thanks Scotty! I'm going with gel everywhere. If I was smart, I would have done this part of the rebuild during the winter when the temps were lower. I did the whole side wet-on-wet, so I had to work fast. I cut each layer of cloth into 4 pieces, and staggered the seams so that the seam on each layer was offset about 4" from the previous layer. I also set the resin on ice overnight. And one thing I learned talking to Robb Young is that all catalysts are not created equal. Some are apparently a little weaker (by design) to give longer working time. So I got some new "slow kick" catalyst and also mixed it weak, and had no problems staying ahead of it.
You're right - your top would look great with my color plans! But I don't see seafoam as a color choice on the sunbrella website. They have something called "basil" which may work, but the color on the monitor may not be truly representative. I also don't see the two-color fabrics :scratch: . Do you have the actual name of it?
And thanks again Randy! I think it will look great! I understand Chris (love2fish) is having you build a tower also - that's good news! If anyone is considering getting a t-top, tower, leaning post, etc., I recommend PM'ing Randy and get a price. I had gotten a few quotes from other well-known fabricators, and Randy's prices beat theirs by quite a bit. And as you can see from the pics, he does great work :thumleft:
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One side down, only 1 more to go. :cheers:
Looks good Craig. :thumleft:
The tower does look "fast".
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that console looks awfully familiar :scratch: looks great :thumleft:
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Good deal on the gel :thumright:
Re the top material. It is a type of acrylic-coated fabric.
May have been this stuff:
http://www.glfi.com/marinecatalog_aqualonpage.htm (http://www.glfi.com/marinecatalog_aqualonpage.htm)
Remember though the canvas guy here using two colors, and fused them together....or at least that's what he mentioned...wingtime to the white phone please :salut:
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Scott,
Your top is probably made out of a coated vinyl called Weblon Regatta. It is available with different colors on the top and bottom. Such as a white or cream color on top so it stays cool by reflecting the sun and a nice light sea foam green for example on the bottom.
If it has a more "fabric" look to it that it could be a woven polyester with and acrylic coating on top giving it a UV resistance and a different color on top. Heritage is once such fabric that is made by the same company that makes the Top Gun fabric we made your cover out of.
Your guy could have used two different color fabrics and somehow layered them together. But I doubt that since it would be twice as expensive and why do all that work when you can get the material in bi-color any ways.
For a woven fabric Sunbrella is top dog. and has a great warranty. But since it is a woven solution dyed fabric it can be made only in one color or with stripes (good for awnings but boats? NO) That is unless it has a coating applied to the topside (I don't think Gen Raven is doing that).
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OK guys, looking for more advice/opinions. In another post, I asked about waterline and deck drains. At the time I was planning on using deck drains with internal balls, and 1-1/2" thru hull fittings. The consensus seemed to be that draining it straight out the transom above deck was the preferred option. After much deliberation, I have finally come to my senses and agree. So now I need to select the fitting that will provide an exit for the water on my deck. The below picture shows the fitting I had previously purchased that I am no longer planning to use (on the left). The middle fitting is a 1-1/2" GEM thru hull. And the hardware on the right is a GEM hawse pipe.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_3350.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9936&title=deck-drain&cat=500)
I am leaning towards the hawse pipe, even though it is not intended for this function. It is about the same height as the thru-hull, but is considerably wider and will allow more flow. I also think it looks a little better. I had also seen some older Makos and Regulators with something similar, but with a flap to prevent backflow. This one is a little lower profile, which I like better. Plus I couldn't find any anywhere. For this fitting or the thru-hull, I will build in a little recess where the deck meets the transom, sorta like the original deck, to help vacate all (or most of) the water. And for either of these fittings I have a plan to keep wave action from pushing water onto the deck.
So does anyone see a problem with using the hawse pipe? Any opinions on which would look better? Note that I am raising the deck about 3", so hopefully they will normally sit above the waterline.
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You asked for opinions, so.... :mrgreen:
See hawse pipes all the time as deck drains on yachts and ships....but the deck is way above the waterline. They're there to dump water off the deck, fast. Rogue wave, crashing seaway, etc.
For a small boat, it is attractive and interesting....but what bothers me is the safety. Boat in the water, heavy rain, twig gets stuck under the bilge float switch, batts drain....bilge fills....these big holes are going to flood her quick, even with a provision/flap etc. on the outside. Or, someone loosens/knocks a flap off with a gaff, etc. during use. Impossible to plug securely from the inside, unless you custom make some stoppers, etc. Even then, its a big hole, X2.
Personally would stick with a couple of the tried and true sleeve-style brass drains that you can stick a plug in. They have worked well for me, and you can adjust them according to need. Backing out of the slip, stern to a hard wind...I plug 'em. Slow trolling with a full livewell and all that weight...I plug 'em. Rest of the time, one or both plugs are out. But you have the ability to plug as necessary, which is also great for a big crew in a sloppy sea. You also have the option of adding ping-pongs.
You can provisionally install a couple of brass drains, rig her, and see how/where she rides/sits. Then if you want, add the hawse pipes later on the fine-tune. Will be a whole lot easier and better structurally to cut out for an addition than to fill and fair to get back to original if unhappy.
JMHO :salut:
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I have a portion of my brain working on this for my boat too so I'm watching the replies. Did you look at the solution Dirt did on his rebuild?
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Some valid points there, Scotty. And Rick, I did looks at dirtwheels' scuppers. In fact, his were a big reason I decided to change to above-deck scuppers. Granted he does not have an engine on his in his floating pictures, but his scuppers are a few inches above the waterline and he said they stayed high and dry when he added 350# in the back. Plus my deck will be about 1-1/2" higher than his.
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Dirt's appear to be the "recessed" type flapper. Is that correct?
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Dirt's appear to be the "recessed" type flapper. Is that correct?
Bonjour!
Can you throw up a pic of dirts, or direct to which page? tx :thumright:
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viewtopic.php?p=120505#p120505 (http://www.classicaquasport.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=120505#p120505)
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Appreciate it
http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/yy16 ... 8a2f0e.jpg (http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/yy167/dirtwheelsfl/Snapbucket/9872F2D8_zps5e8a2f0e.jpg)
Craig, one thing I forgot is that you have a closed cockpit, potentially without quick access between the back wall and the transom. So that may nix a simple scupper drain tube setup as on mine.
Here's some good news. Eugene called this morning, he has been following this thread. His first message was "Tell Craig hawse pipes are for ropes" :lol:
His second message "Tell Craig I have the perfect solution. It is a through transom inch and a half specialty scupper with built in ping pongs" . He made it a point to say it is the angle you need.
Anyhow, you can give him a call, seven two seven four five two oh oh three one :thumright:
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Ha! Tell Eugene that ping pong balls are for beer pong! Just kidding, I have no problem with ping pong scuppers. But I don't think the hawse pipe will look bad either. I will call Eugene and see what he has.
And yes, the closed transom would certainly interfere with plugging the holes like you do.
CB, the PB link Scotty posted of dirtwheels' scupper gives you an idea of what he did. I found some other pics while scrolling through his PB gallery that show that there are no flaps in his scuppers (unless he added them later).
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Yep, no flaps in mine yet. Gonna make some out of acrylic eventually that will sit inside the hole...
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CB, the PB link Scotty posted of dirtwheels' scupper gives you an idea of what he did. I found some other pics while scrolling through his PB gallery that show that there are no flaps in his scuppers (unless he added them later).
That's where I found this.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/Ditwheels_transom.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9958&title=ditwheels-transom&cat=500)
It's what you youngsters have to look forward to in your graying years.
Tired eyes. :(
It just looks like "something" is in those scuppers but it's really an illusion. :?
Thought it might be one of these.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/Recessed_scupper.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9957&title=recessed-scupper&cat=500)
Anybody got a dog and cane for sale? 8)
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I'm in the same boat. Damn it sucks growing up :?
Craig, any info from Eugene?
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I'm in the same boat. Damn it sucks growing up :?
Craig, any info from Eugene?
I spoke to Eugene a bit on Friday. If I understand correctly, he has something similar to the drain on the left in my picture above, only not as deep. I was previously gung ho on a deck drain plumbed to a thru hull below deck, but the winds have changed and I am now strongly leaning to an above-deck scupper, largely due to the feedback I received on this thread viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10859 (http://www.classicaquasport.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10859).
Obviously Eugene is not a fan of the hawse pipe approach. I am not 100% sold on it either, but I believe I can make it work. I also think I can make the SS thru hull work as well. I'm not sure what I am going to do at this point. As much as I value Eugene's input and opinion, part on the attraction of doing a rebuild is (for me anyway) the ability to be creative and do things a little differently than what has been done before. Doesn't mean it will be any better and it may take more effort than the normal way, but that's ok. When it is done, it will hopefully have some "uniqueness" to it.
One thing I did learn from Eugene is that he has top-quality fittings (cleats, bow and stern eyes, hinges, etc.) that he supplies to upper tier boat builders. I plan to hook up with him in the near future to check out what he has. Of course I have bought most of that stuff already, so I may need to open "MCL West" to get rid of what I don't want....
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Thanks for the link, good thread. Like CB was saying, not only do your eyes go with age, but darn if your memory goes as well. Had forgotten all about that thread...CRS setting in.
Know you're going to get a good job no matter the direction you choose.
Eugene has top quality hardware. He supplied most of our stuff, and its holding up well. That's saying something, because in our situation, the boat lays side-to on a lift all summer in a moderate to strong salty southwest wind. Soap it up...two days later its caked again.
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Craig, like we were talking last night about upper station rigging, thought I would give you my opinion on what you "need" upstairs. Of course, the helm pump, the standard Teleflex 5271 pump will do you just fine. You have to run a third line that connects the 2 helms (called a compensating line) and swap out the vented fill cap at the lower helm with a non-vented one. Since your hoses will bve completely out of the sun (UV), you can use the nylon extruded hose, a LOT cheaper than the Kevlar stuff and a lot smaller in dia as well, so eases the rigging aspect.
As far as the binnacle, either the Teleflex MT-3 (single lever/dual action) or the old standby Morse "S" control (single lever/single action), pretty much your preference there. Use Teleflex Xtreme universal cables like I said last night.
Gauges, I'd install a tach and water pressure, nothing more. If you have tabs, you'll want a tab switch, and for the Porta-bracket and TNT controls, I'd use the Teleflex turn-signal stalk type mounted to the helm pump. For the keyswitch and kill switch (as well as the tach), you can splice into your engine harness downstairs. Cheap way of doing it, it does leave both stations "live", but I think that's a moot point with a responsible operator aboard...
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Excellent! Thanks Bob :salut: . The only additional thing I can think of putting up there is a small GPS/FF. Once I get closer to rigging I'll ask your advice on how best to do that. I imagine networking 2 displays on one antenna & transducer is pretty straight forward these days, but I have no experience doing that. I'm not sure if both units need to be the same brand, or if everything is compatible with some sort of black box interface.
Tower under construction.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/CLM_tower.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=10005&title=clm-tower&cat=500)
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I'll get back to you Craig...
Randy, do you have all your SS piano wire pull wires in place? Love the addition of the chase tubes from the underside of the control box, and the curved tubes down below to bring the upstairs rigging into the console. How about a pull wire aft to the overhang for a spreader, maybe anc lght location? And what type of controls is Craig using? If he's using standard mechanical, fishing the cables through the frame could be a bit of a beetch...
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I'll get back to you Craig...
No hurry, Bob. Electronics will be a "later" item anyway.
As far as controls, I have no idea yet. But I do need to consider budget, so probably mechanical cables. What is the minimum bend radius for those? The intersection of the upper rigging tubes and the legs do look like a tight bend. Are you sure that won't create a problem?
And I like the idea of an ear or tab on the back, between the rod holders. We had talked about that early on, but never reached a conclusion. I will call you Monday night to discuss it.
Thanks Bob, definitely appreciate your advice and recommendations on this. And yes, I do need to figure out what I want, what I need, and what I can afford. I'm hoping that by spreading out the "major" purchases (console & tower now, a porta bracket at some point, engine later, etc.), it won't hurt so bad. And I will keep my eyes open for deals along the way, much like with Randy's tower.
As far as the cables - I recall you recommending a certain type or brand of cables in the past. Maybe a very flexible cable? I'm not sure what the norm is, but I found some info online about the minimum bend radius for Teleflex cables being 5". Do you know of anything better than that?
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OK guys, a little pre-planning for rigging. Craig, you're gonna have 2 cables running up the starboard leg, 3 steering hoses running up port (starboard, port, and a compensating line). So it would be best to run the electrical side of things up starboard. Randy, try to keep the holes where the pipes meet as burr free as possible (you worked at YF, I don't have to tell you that!). Try and keep any weld dross from wicking into the joints.
Craig, you're gonna need to figure out everything you want/need upstairs...
Just to let you know, Craig, they'll have to be the same brand if you want to use the upstairs one as a "repeater". If it was just a CP, then you could use 2 different brands as they both do their charts independently, and you could use the same GPS antenna. But transducers are brand specific, so a Garmin can't share a ducer with a Lowrance, etc.
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Here ya go Craig...
(http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh301/seabob4/Action%20Craft%202110/ActionCraft2110034.jpg)
As far as cables:
What I recommend to everyone...Teleflex XTremes. 4" minimum bend radius. Get them at boatersland...http://www.boatersland.com/enginesystem ... 3300x.html (http://www.boatersland.com/enginesystems-controlcables-tel3300x.html)
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Looks like a nice setup there, Bob :thumleft: I'll have to start looking at same-brand units, as I want to use the FF up top as well as below.
Thanks Bob!
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Craig, quick derail, but have been meaning to ask you....back when you took it apart, how wet was the transom and stringers?
Tx!
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Craig, you could always run a stand-alone plain FF up top. You don't need charts or coordinates up there...
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I've become so accustom to a multi purpose display, i.e. chart-plotter, even if I'm using just the depth finder/Fish finder (df/ff) part of it. Getting to and from the spot might need a compass setting or the chart. Once you're on the spot or close the df/ff is the key and then once the fishing is done and you have to head back in, in unfamiliar territory (or even familiar), having the chart is handy up there. The charts give you depth and tides from different places on the chart, etc.
You don't need anything huge up there I wouldn't think. Maybe a 5"?
Capt Matt or someone else who use their tower a lot should really be piping in here. I'm not sure what Matt has up in his. When I saw the boat I was more checking out the work he did on that beauty then the electronics. Maybe he doesn't have any as he is a native to that area.
I think Aaron and a few others went down there for a ride and can tell us.
My $.01
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Craig, quick derail, but have been meaning to ask you....back when you took it apart, how wet was the transom and stringers?
Tx!
Transom wasn't too bad at all. Stringers on the other hand, as well as all of the flotation foam between the stringers, was saturated. Do you recall how heavy it seemed when we loaded it on the trailer? When I started removing the foam, I took it to the dump and got a before and after weight of my truck. I think I was up to about 1200 lbs before I stopped keeping track. Probably had another couple hundred pounds after that.
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Bob & Rick,
I definitely like the idea of having both a CP and FF up top. We have quite a few spots that we use the CP to get close, and use the FF to zero in. It would be nice to do it all from a good vantage point on calm days. I'm thinking a 5" unit up top, and a 7" below. I think a 7" is about the maximum size that will fit on the riser on my console. Ideally both units would have the 3D imaging or whatever it is called that basically gives you a picture of what the bottom is like.
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Craig, quick derail, but have been meaning to ask you....back when you took it apart, how wet was the transom and stringers?
Tx!
Transom wasn't too bad at all. Stringers on the other hand, as well as all of the flotation foam between the stringers, was saturated. Do you recall how heavy it seemed when we loaded it on the trailer? When I started removing the foam, I took it to the dump and got a before and after weight of my truck. I think I was up to about 1200 lbs before I stopped keeping track. Probably had another couple hundred pounds after that.
Gotcha, and yes I remember loading her up. We guessed around #3500. And that was hull only.
She's come a LONG way....can't wait to see more pics :thumright:
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Bob & Rick,
I definitely like the idea of having both a CP and FF up top. We have quite a few spots that we use the CP to get close, and use the FF to zero in. It would be nice to do it all from a good vantage point on calm days. I'm thinking a 5" unit up top, and a 7" below. I think a 7" is about the maximum size that will fit on the riser on my console. Ideally both units would have the 3D imaging or whatever it is called that basically gives you a picture of what the bottom is like.
craig, from what i measured, the absolute largest units that will fit on our consoles is a HDS9, or garmin 5208.and those are a REALLY tight squeeze but they'll fit... im leaning towards dual 7's on my console, and either my 4" ff or a new 5"ff/cp up top...
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Craig LOTS (read all) of the work boats up here have water tight platforms (decks) and honking big scuppers of the oval shape of that the hawse hole trim piece you had. The majority however, have no trim around the scuppers. The scupper hole is molded right into either the transom or the hull side (sometimes both) flush with the deck and the look is incredibly clean. There is no better / faster way to shed water... When the need arises to plug them up for a deck load, must guys opt for little L brackets fastened to the inboard side on either end of the scupper hole that a UHMW "scupper board" is slid into. The fit is snug and most often there is an o-ring like seal between the boat side and the scupper board and the inboard side has a tab to grab onto.
Scotty is correct that if the holes in the swisscheese line up (dead batts, water coming in etc..) there is going to be a problem.. Over the years, the only big above deck scupper incidents that have caused a sinking that I have heard about are due to either intentional sabotage because or a gear war or alcohol induced stupidity, and a real stupid one that involved a deck load of mackerel combined with Alan's coffee brandy, a rotten penboard and some poor man's tabaccy....
Common thread there was lack of good judgement and seamanship, pay attention and don't eat Swiss cheese and you'll be fine :mrgreen: :wink: ... Oval scuppers would look really cool! :salut:
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(http://i58.tinypic.com/2lw6arm.jpg)
(http://i61.tinypic.com/33a5a4j.jpg)
(http://i58.tinypic.com/2lw6arm.jpg)
(http://i58.tinypic.com/dbiql0.jpg)
(http://i58.tinypic.com/nq3e35.jpg)
Craigs tower is complete. Aside from the floor being put on and the canvas strung up. hope you like it buddy. pictures do not do it justice. :thumleft: :thumleft: cant wait to see it on the flatty!
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that is sexy! Love the curves. Looks awesome
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That looks really nice!!! She is going to look like shes going 50 when sitting still.
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Man, that looks great, Randy! You are truly an artist! I can't wait to pick it up tomorrow, and see it in person! I wish the boat was ready for it...but for now I'll just use it as added incentive to get my butt in gear :thumleft:
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Wow!! Our ol' gal is getting ready to put on some good-looking bling! :cheers:
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craig, that thing looks awesome! and it was nice to meet face to face! lol.
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Sweet tower, Craig! Randy, excellent work! Beats the hell out of fabbing for Wiley, huh? :wink:
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craig, that thing looks awesome! and it was nice to meet face to face! lol.
Thanks Aaron! Glad we finally got to meet and thanks for the tour of your boat. That is one solid boat - can't wait to see it floating :thumright: .
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Sweet tower, Craig! Randy, excellent work! Beats the hell out of fabbing for Wiley, huh? :wink:
Thanks Bob! The pics look good, but it really does look great in person. Randy did a heck of a job :salut: . I can't say enough good things about him and his work. Here it is after the 2+ hour trip home today. I think it makes the truck look faster...maybe I should have left it there?
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/tower-truck.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=10050&title=tower-stuff&cat=500)
I was able to maneuver it into the playroom downstairs. where it will sit for longer than I would like it to.... One nice feature Randy added was the drink holders. There is one on each side, and there are plastic inserts that fit inside them. Glad he suggested those :thumright: .
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_2936.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=10049&title=tower-stuff&cat=500)
And here is the leaning post that came as part of his introductory deal. This will probably go in the 205, as I'm planning on making a livewell seat for the flatback. He did an excellent job on this as well :thumleft: .
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_29351.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=10048&title=tower-stuff&cat=500)
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Wow....beautiful!
Randy....awesome work sir :salut:
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I have been absent for a while, but.... Man I missed a lot. :shock: That is one sweet looking setup! I am really digging on those drink holders, awesome idea.
I am insanely jealous. :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
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Thanks Carl! Welcome back - are you done travelling for a while? We need to see more stellar progress on your rebuild!
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Boy I sure hope so! I am pretty fed up with traveling... :roll:
I don't know if I would call it stellar... Geez, some days I don't know if I would call it progress! :lol: :lol: :lol:
I hope to get some work done sometime this month, I need to catch up on several other projects from my absence first though. Also, (and I know it breaks your heart) I have been in contact with Bill (WannabeDeepSea) and the Porta-Bracket should be here some time in the near future too.
All in all, I'll have some progress to show soon.
How are thing going on your end? The last I remember was you were working on the transom cap... Any progress lately?
I imagine that doing glass work down in your part of the world is a challenge this time of year.... :ncool:
Talk to you later.
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Carl,
Congrats on the bracket...sounds like you got a great deal! And yes, I am jealous, but with just getting the tower, I don't mind spreading the cash flow out a bit.
Let's see, what have I done lately...popped the cap off and glassed the interior hull sides...made decent progress on the transom exterior (hope to pretty much finish that up this weekend)...did a bit of repairing of the transom cap (didn't come out as good as I had originally hoped)...ran some more rigging tubes (there will be no shortage of rigging tubes)...and started work on some floor hatches (Koz got me motivated). I think that is about it. With this heat, it is tough to work for too long. If I ever actually finish a major milestone, I'll post some pics.
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With this heat, it is tough to work for too long.
Boy, you ain't kidding - England spoiled me I guess - low 50s in the morning and maybe 70 (which they said was "hot") in the afternoon - maybe 74 worse case.
I came out of the airport in Sarasota and immediately started sweating (was around 4pm - the hot part of the day) - not sure how much I'll get done this weekend.
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Good deal guys. Rick, you may ought to chill and get re-acclimated. That 50 in the morning sounds nice. 95 here today.
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this time next week ill be in DFW cooking my a$$ off. last summer it was 104 degrees with a heat index of 115-120 for 5 of the 7 days
i havent got much done in the last 2 weeks on my flat back. even inside with the fan blowing its hard to get anything done... i gave in and called one of our fiberglass guys to come finish the inside of the boat.
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i gave in and called one of our fiberglass guys to come finish the inside of the boat.
NOOOOOOO! Just kidding! I don't blame you one bit :salut:
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what are you cooking? bbq?
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this time next week ill be in DFW cooking my a$$ off. last summer it was 104 degrees with a heat index of 115-120 for 5 of the 7 days
what are you cooking? bbq?
I think himself
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oh. i guess im hungry.
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there will be a bbq though! lol
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Not much progress to report, but a question about bulkheads...I am using nidacore for my bulkheads. Eugene recommended 1" thick material. I don't have any 1", but I've got some excess 1/2". So I made a sandwich (1808, 1/2" nidacore, 2 x 3/4 oz mat, 1/2" nidacore, 1808). Do you think that is adequate, or should I add another layer of 1808 on each side?
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When you tab them in you'll get a couple more layers on each side :salut:
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Good point Rick :thumright:
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Instead of using the Nida for bulkheads, why not do it like your stringers and how they do newer boats. Foam bulkheads covered glass? This way you can go as wide as you want with no issues.
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Instead of using the Nida for bulkheads, why not do it like your stringers and how they do newer boats. Foam bulkheads covered glass? This way you can go as wide as you want with no issues.
I'm sure that would work, and have the benefit of extra surface area to bond with the deck. But they would be a bit more work and money than the nidacore. I'm getting to the point of trying to simplify things to give the perception of making progress, while using up the supplies that I have stockpiled over the last year and a half.
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Craig, had another idea re the livewell viewing port. How about making a fiberglass part like a recessed picture frame....that would dress it up real nice from the outside. Little starboard trim, good to go :thumright:
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Well, I have been chipping away at it. I am finally close to putting the deck on. I've got the stringers done, as well as the bulkheads and rigging tubes.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_0006.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=10318&title=stringers&cat=500)
I added a ledger to help support the perimeter of the deck. If you read a lot of Scotty's (aka Gran398) posts, you will see this mentioned several times. Many feel it is unnecessary, and they may be right, but I feel better knowing there is extra support under the edge and I'm not just relying on the stiffness of the deck and the tabbing on top to keep the joint from flexing and developing cracks in the gel. And it can't hurt, right?
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_0008.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=10319&title=stringers&cat=500)
This pic gives you a pretty good view of the ledger, as well as the rigging tubes for the fuel fill line (front tube), vent line (right behind the fuel line tube), and fuel line to the engine (back tube that suns along the port side of the boat). Note that I still have some trimming to do to level the top of some of the bulkheads.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_0014_1_.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=10321&title=gas-line-tubes&cat=500)
Here is another view of the fuel line rigging tubes. The 2 tubes in the front run from the console and bilge area, inside the stringers, up to the bow area. They will be used for lights, speakers, and maybe even battery cables if I need to move the batteries forward for weight distribution..
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_0012_1_.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=10320&title=gas-line-tubes&cat=500)
Next I need to do some prettying up of the glass in the bilge area and some other spaces to get it ready for paint. Still need to decide on what bilge paint to use. I've got a combination of poly and epoxy, so I need something compatible with both. Suggestions?
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She looks GREAT!! Glad you added the ledger strips. Gonna tie everything together like a rock.
Are the ledgers solid glass, appear to be :thumright:
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Are the ledgers solid glass, appear to be :thumright:
They are, Scotty. The ledge is 3/4 oz mat and 3 layers of 1808. I took a piece of plywood that was just shorter than the distance between the bulkheads and cut one edge to match the contour of the hull. I added supports that spanned the bulkheads, along with spacers that dropped the plywood to about 1/4" below the top of the bulkheads. This gave me a shelf that would sit slightly recessed between the bulkheads. I glassed the mat and two 5" wide strips of 1808 to the hull, between a pair of bulkheads, so that about 1.5" of the strips were above stringers and about 3.5" were below them. Then I put the shelf in place and folded the top 1.5" over onto the shelf (I used duct tape on the wood to keep the resin from bonding to it). Then I tabbed a 2.5" strip of 1808 to the top of the ledge and about 1" up the hull. (I chose 1" because I wanted to keep the upper edge below the top of the deck so that it doesn't add the to thickness when I tab in the deck).
After I finished with each section, I moved the wooden shelf to the next section and cut the edge of the plywood to match the contour and repeated the glassing.
I don't know if my description makes sense, but it worked out pretty well and the ledgers are quite sturdy :thumleft: .
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Next I need to do some prettying up of the glass in the bilge area and some other spaces to get it ready for paint. Still need to decide on what bilge paint to use. I've got a combination of poly and epoxy, so I need something compatible with both. Suggestions?
Sherwin Williams "TILE CLAD". The high solids 1:1
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Makes perfect sense, that was a neat way to do it!
Tank gets in, you'll be ready to deck....then the outfitting fun starts :cheers:
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Next I need to do some prettying up of the glass in the bilge area and some other spaces to get it ready for paint. Still need to decide on what bilge paint to use. I've got a combination of poly and epoxy, so I need something compatible with both. Suggestions?
Sherwin Williams "TILE CLAD". The high solids 1:1
Thanks dirt. Just researched it on the web. Sounds like the ticket :thumleft:
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If you have any epoxy left you can get some of this and add it to it. I did this on the inside of my console and it worked great.
http://uscomposites.com/pigments.html (http://uscomposites.com/pigments.html)
(http://i669.photobucket.com/albums/vv60/Lewis55/console%20repair/IMAG2670.jpg) (http://s669.photobucket.com/user/Lewis55/media/console%20repair/IMAG2670.jpg.html)
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Makes perfect sense, that was a neat way to do it!
Tank gets in, you'll be ready to deck....then the outfitting fun starts :cheers:
Thanks Scotty. Looking forward to getting the deck behind me (hmmm, that didn't sound good :oops: ). Then I will flip the boat and tackle the bottom. Removing bottom paint...I'm sure that is going to be fun. And then I have to deal with the cap. It's in pretty bad shape. I think the rubrail was installed upside down. The rubrail lip that normally covers the bottom edge of the cap was actually on the top. To compensate, they ground a taper in the cap so that the bottom edge is pretty thin. I think I'm going to have to build that back up.
Who sold me this lemon anyway?
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If you have any epoxy left you can get some of this and add it to it. I did this on the inside of my console and it worked great.
http://uscomposites.com/pigments.html (http://uscomposites.com/pigments.html)
(http://i669.photobucket.com/albums/vv60/Lewis55/console%20repair/IMAG2670.jpg) (http://s669.photobucket.com/user/Lewis55/media/console%20repair/IMAG2670.jpg.html)
Thanks Lewis, that is a great idea and looks awesome! I don't think I have enough epoxy left to do the areas that need to be coated, so I'll have to compare the cost of more epoxy plus tint versus the stuff dirt suggested. Good option though :thumleft:
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2 gallon kit is like 135$ I wish they sold quart kits! Havent used it as a primer, but I hear it works great for a high build type. The bottom would be a perfect place to use it up when you flip. They can tint it any color out of their book too...
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2 gallon kit is like 135$ I wish they sold quart kits! Havent used it as a primer, but I hear it works great for a high build type. The bottom would be a perfect place to use it up when you flip. They can tint it any color out of their book too...
I checked with my local Sherwin Williams...about $160 + tax for the smallest Tile-Clad kit, which is the 2 gallon kit you mentioned. I plan on painting the bilge area (maybe 2' x 3' x 1' deep), the inner transom surface, and possibly two compartments that I may use for below-deck storage (about 4' x 1.25' x 1' deep each). I don't know if I will paint below the casting deck yet - still figuring that part out. Is there anywhere else I "need" to paint? I see than many paint the tank compartment, but I'm not sure why :scratch:. Does it provide any benefit there?
I don't think I will have a need for more than a gallon of paint...maybe Lewis's approach of tinting epoxy will be more economical. Unless someone has a use for 1/2 of the Tile-Clad kit and is relatively local....anybody?
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Just to give you an idea of material usage. I did the entire inside of my console with about a pint of epoxy mixed and 7/8 of one of the small 2 oz. white tint bottles. Yes it does need another coat for full coverage but at that point in working on it I was ready to get it done! The tint from us composites doesn't have a lot of pigment when you mix it into the epoxy. Kind of ends up translucent but for my purposes it worked awesome.
(http://i669.photobucket.com/albums/vv60/Lewis55/console%20repair/IMAG2402.jpg) (http://s669.photobucket.com/user/Lewis55/media/console%20repair/IMAG2402.jpg.html)
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Decided to do something a little different this weekend. Instead of working with fiberglass, I played with starboard. My console is kinda small and doesn't have much room for storage. About the only place I can add a glove box is on the rear vertical surface, below the helm. The only problem is there will not be a lot of space between the console and the livewell. So I think the best solution will be a tilt-out "bin". So here is what I made:
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_3043.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=10327&title=storage-bin&cat=500)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_3041.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=10325&title=storage-bin&cat=500)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_3042.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=10326&title=storage-bin&cat=500)
The bin is about 5.5" x 16" x 9" deep, and overall dimensions of the frame are 20" wide x 15" tall. In retrospect, I should have made it a couple of inches taller, but it should do fine for holding phones, wallets, etc.
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Nice Craig :salut:
How'd you create the box? Screw it together?
I still need to figure out wallet, phone, etc storage inside the console on mine. I'll attach to the inside of the door but haven't got there yet.
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How'd you create the box? Screw it together?
Yup, everything is screwed together. I used some 316 SS screws from McFeely's that work pretty good. Just have to drill pilot holes for everything and be careful not to go too far through. I attached the box to the door by first screwing some 1/2" x 1/2" starboard strips to the door, and then the box is screwed to those strips.
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Nice work, professional grade :salut:
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Nice work, professional grade :salut:
Thanks Scotty, professional is a stretch...but I am pretty pleased with how it turned out. I really wish I had a CNC machine for things like this.
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All good. A CNC is nothing more than a fancy software-driven cutter/router. Will take that finish work of yours all day :wink:
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Oh yea, forgot about some other stuff i use called "e-bond". Used some today and it jogged my memory... Anyway i know Rick got a quart or 2 qt kit of it to do his bilge with from a guy local to me. Its a 1:1 white epoxy. Pm him and get some details on getting some if youre interested (i dont know what he paid for shipping and whatnot)... Pretty sure you can get custom quantities.
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Thanks Dirt - forgot about the stuff Rick used. Looks like it is about the same price per quart if I were to buy the individual quart kits ($80 for 2 quarts of each component). There are some savings if I buy the 2 gallon kit ($120 vs $160), but then I need to factor in shipping. I think I will need about 2 quarts of each, but I would rather have too much than not enough. I may just bite the bullet and get the tile-clad. I'm sure I can find other things to paint with it. Which brings up the question - what areas should I paint - the bilge and any below deck storage compartments, but what else? I see a lot of people painting the tank compartment. It will (hopefully) never be seen again, so is there a reason to paint it, other than appearance?
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I see a lot of people painting the tank compartment. It will (hopefully) never be seen again...
Amen to that
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My thought is if im ever going to be working somewhere, I want it painted. Way easier to see what youre doing, especially in a lil access hatch with a flashlight or whatever, it will reflect...
Easier to clean oil and whatnot off of a glossy paint than uncoated glass too..
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Craig, have you made any progress?
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Hey Rick, making a little progress here and there. I'm off work next week, so hopefully I'll get a few productive days in.
I also was off yesterday and today, so got some work done on my deck. Used 4 sheets of melamine for the form, and coated it with gel coat.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_3150.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=10804&title=deck&cat=500)
Yesterday I put down 2 layers of 1708, one layer of 1-1/2 oz mat, and 3/4" nidacore. I put just about anything I could find on it to weigh it down.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_3153.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=10805&title=deck&cat=500)
And today I added 2 layers of 1708 to the underside of the deck. Also added a few stiffeners to the area that has the greatest unsupported span.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_31551.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=10806&title=deck&cat=500)
With a little luck, I'll be taking it up to Young boats in Inglis on Tuesday to flip it over. I'm really looking forward to sanding off all that bottom paint :puker: .
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That's a lot of progress :salut:
Did you make your own hatch gutters? I see the bluish looking things that could be hatches.
I pulled my liner last weekend for the last time and did a little work on it. Still have some more to do to it. I am on a cruise next week, family reunion thing so I won't get anything done this weekend or much of next. Starting the 2nd week in December I'm off and should get the liner, to include the transom liner and casting deck back in and tabbed in to tie everything together. Then I will be ready to flip mine.
How will they flip yours? How much will they charge you? I've been thinking through ways to use my gantries to do this but am not sure yet how it will work.
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I did make hatch gutter forms, but that is not what you see :roll: . I made gutter forms for both hatches, screwed them to the melamine, and painted them with gel coat. The gel coat looked fine on the rest of the form, but I got quite a bit of alligatoring in the gutters (strike 1). I figured I could probably repair them, so I kept moving along. I started glassing the gutters with 1208, but I was having trouble getting it to conform to my liking (strike 2). Each vertical face of the gutters had a 5 degree bevel, but I was still worried about getting the finished deck to pop off gutters (strike 3). The last thing I wanted to do was ruin the whole deck project because of the hatch gutters, so I pulled them off.
I screwed down some 1/4" wood the size of the hatch. Then I used bondo to make a 12:1 ramp all around the perimeter of the wood. I covered it with painters tape (the blue you see) and waxed it. This should leave a recessed well to drop in a separate hatch gutter later.
Another thing I did, based on Eugene's recommendation, was to put several layers of tape around the perimeter of the deck (the tan tape in the picture). I built up more layers on the outer edge than the inside, so it is somewhat beveled. This recess is for when I tab it to the hull, and should reduce the amount of prep necessary to get a smooth transition.
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As far as flipping it, they have a bracket that bolts to the transom using a porta bracket bolt pattern, and another jig that uses the bow eye. They use a forklift to lift it and rotate it like a rotisserie. They charge by the hour- figuring 1-2 hours at about 85/hour or something like that. That's worth it to me to avoid the hassle of doing it myself.
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Bottoms up! Had the boat flipped today so that I can work on the bottom. I hauled it up to Young Boats in Inglis (about a 15 minute ride). Took them a half hour to flip it and get it secured on the trailer. Best $50 I ever spent!
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_3156.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=10833&title=upside-down&cat=500)
Hopefully this is another well-spent $50. Got these Morse controls off ebay (well, actually I'm still waiting to receive them). Although they are advertised as being for twin engines, I was told they would also work for dual stations. Hopefully as simple as swapping a red and black handle. Not sure what model they are...anybody have any ideas, or can confirm they will work for dual stations? Worst case, I guess I am out $50 (well, $70 including shipping).
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/Morse.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=10834&title=morse-controls&cat=500)
edit: sorry for the small picture size. I saved it from the ebay ad, and this is what I ended up with. I have no idea how to make it bigger.
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Craig, they look like Morse "S" controls, dual lever, single action, which works fine for dual station, single engine setups. It's what most use, been around forever...
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Craig, they look like Morse "S" controls, dual lever, single action, which works fine for dual station, single engine setups. It's what most use, been around forever...
Hard to tell from the tiny pic but I'm with Bob, look like morse S controls.
Agreed, $50 well spent!
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Oh, BTW Craig, Fernando uses them... :wink:
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Just swap the knobs instead of the whole handles!
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Just swap the knobs instead of the whole handles!
Ha, that is even easier!
Thanks for the feedback guys! I hope the controls look as good in person as they do in the pics. There appears to be only minor pitting, much better looking than some used controls I've seen on eBay.
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Looking good Craig!
If you want to get fancy, you can send the controls to Miami and have them re-plated.
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Looking good Craig!
If you want to get fancy, you can send the controls to Miami and have them re-plated.
I was going to ask you about that Scotty, as I seem to recall something about you haing some rod holders refinished. What is the name of the company? Thanks!
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Craig, I know Scotty's rod holders are Lee's, but I too can't recall the outfit that does the plating.
Kudos here to Fernando, his controls are the smoothest operating controls of any dual-station, Morse "S" equipped boat I've ever been on, fold down upper or not. He has them set up in "series", where the cables from the upper run to the lower binnacle, then from the lower to the motor. Typically, to get that smooth of an operation, especially with fold down upper stations, you have to rig them in "parallel", where the upper and the lower run to a transfer control box, with a short set of cables running to the motors...
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Found it!!
http://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=8063.0
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Craig, I know Scotty's rod holders are Lee's, but I too can't recall the outfit that does the plating.
Kudos here to Fernando, his controls are the smoothest operating controls of any dual-station, Morse "S" equipped boat I've ever been on, fold down upper or not. He has them set up in "series", where the cables from the upper run to the lower binnacle, then from the lower to the motor. Typically, to get that smooth of an operation, especially with fold down upper stations, you have to rig them in "parallel", where the upper and the lower run to a transfer control box, with a short set of cables running to the motors...
I'll be rigging them on series too. Hopefully they will be smooth as well.
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Found it!!
http://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=8063.0
Thanks Scotty, sent you a PM on pricing. Of course, I don't even really know how bad my controls look, since I haven't received them yet. But better to be prepared....
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Craig, I know Scotty's rod holders are Lee's, but I too can't recall the outfit that does the plating.
Kudos here to Fernando, his controls are the smoothest operating controls of any dual-station, Morse "S" equipped boat I've ever been on, fold down upper or not. He has them set up in "series", where the cables from the upper run to the lower binnacle, then from the lower to the motor. Typically, to get that smooth of an operation, especially with fold down upper stations, you have to rig them in "parallel", where the upper and the lower run to a transfer control box, with a short set of cables running to the motors...
mine is set up the same way, teleflex xtreeme cables, silky smooth operation
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Cool! Those are the cables I will be using. Glad to here they are working well for you too, Aaron :thumleft:
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Today I spent a little time removing bottom paint. That is actually progressing better than expected. However, removing the bottom paint is revealing lots of hairline cracks in the gel coat beneath it.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_31621.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=10864&title=gel-coat-cracks&cat=500)
I assume I am going to have to chase all of the cracks and repair them before spraying the whole boat with new gel coat, otherwise they will likely manifest themselves into cracks in the new gel coat, correct? Anyone else have lots of these?
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That sucks. At least its not blistered.
You reckon the rest is like that?
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Man, I sure hope not! I've only removed the bottom paint on the transom and one side (above the chine). I had removed the cracks on the transom before I glassed over it. The side is this way pretty much in the back foot or two only, with a few random cracks elsewhere. I've still got about 90% of the bottom paint to remove, so we'll see how bad it really is.
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I sure hope not too. I'll ask Chris about the best plan of attack.
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I'd appreciate that. I asked Robb Young about it when he flipped the boat, as I knew I had a few of them. He suggested grinding the cracks to make them a little wider, and filling them with either a resin/cabosil or gel coat/cabosil mixture. This is what Robb uses instead of fairing compound. But I would also like to hear what Chris says.
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I'd appreciate that. I asked Robb Young about it when he flipped the boat, as I knew I had a few of them. He suggested grinding the cracks to make them a little wider, and filling them with either a resin/cabosil or gel coat/cabosil mixture. This is what Robb uses instead of fairing compound. But I would also like to hear what Chris says.
Chris uses the same two mixes depending upon application, but still want to get his thinking.
One thing for sure, doesn't have to be doll-baby.... long board it, then spray gel. Glad you flipped it.....great working height :wink:
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Craig, remember what the bottom of my boat looked like lol thats one more reason why im bottom painting it again.
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Hi, just spoke with Chris.
He said that if you think the cracks are caused due to stress (transom, chines, etc.) then you'll definitely want to beef up those areas from the inside, otherwise they'll come back. Mentioned to him your work so far (transom, stringers, tabbing, deck) he thinks you're good to go, but feel it is worth mentioning.
If the cracks are not caused from stress and due to age/shrinkage, spend less time/eliminate the first step on the prep below.
Said to take a dremel tool and gouge out down to glass, at least 3X the width of the crack. Then come back in and fill with a commercially available marine grade vinylester fiberglass-impregnated putty. Said this stuff hardens like a rock. You can fill the little finish stuff with the cabosil mix or bondo.
Then longboard...then spray with Duratek clear high-build primer. Then longboard/finish. Then spray the gel.
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Thanks Scotty! I don't know if they are stress or shrinkage related, but regardless I have beefed up the inside in those areas quite a bit already. Tell Chris I appreciate his advice!
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Craig, remember what the bottom of my boat looked like lol thats one more reason why im bottom painting it again.
Yea, I guess I can use that as my last resort, but since it will be lift-kept, I really don't want bottom paint.
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Craig, did we miss the install of the sole?
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Thanks Scotty! I don't know if they are stress or shrinkage related, but regardless I have beefed up the inside in those areas quite a bit already. Tell Chris I appreciate his advice!
Sure will, he's a good guy.
He also said if you had any questions/ need advice, just call. So I'll PM you his # :thumright:
Rick, think I may have jumped the gun on the sole...sorry 'bout that.....
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Craig, did we miss the install of the sole?
Nope, made it, but didn't install it yet. Robb Young, who flipped the boat, recommended leaving it out to keep it lighter for the flipping. He said that is how they typically do it. Just needs to have the stringers and bulkheads in. Which means I have a sole in the backyard that I need to figure out how & where to store for a month or two or more :roll:
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Wow, I would think you need the sole in to tie everything together. Guess I learned something new today.
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Finally got to spend a little quality time with the boat, and made a decent dent in bottom paint removal
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_3211.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=11119&title=bottom&cat=500)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_3217.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=11123&title=bottom&cat=500)
Kinda scary and disappointing to find all these cracks in the gelcoat that were covered by the bottom paint. Some of them are random, and some look more like the result of an impact of some sort. I did take a dremel tool to a few of them, and so far they seem to terminate at the fiberglass, so I'm leaning towards shrinkage/age related, possibly affected in some way by the bottom paint. Which is a whole lot better than structural cracks.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_3213.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=11121&title=bottom&cat=500)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_3215.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=11122&title=bottom&cat=500)
I plan to take the dremel tool to most of them, as suggested above by Scotty/Chris, which is going to take a while given the quantity of cracks I have. On the ones that look like spider webs, I will probably grind down that whole area and build back up with mat and vinyester. Does this sound reasonable, or does anybody have other suggestions?
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looks exactly like my hull bottom! which is why im putting bottom paint back on... may do that next week....
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What kind of power tool did you use on the bottom Craig?
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looks exactly like my hull bottom! which is why im putting bottom paint back on... may do that next week....
Aaron, don't take this the wrong way, but I'm glad to hear that your hull looked like this! It gives me a little comfort knowing that mine isn't the only hull with these little cracks all over it!
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Craig, I hate to see this, especially since I had it before you.
Guess all those years sitting in the lake didn't help our cause.
I'm thinking we call Eugene, show him these pics, and get his thinking. One consideration (time, labor and money savings) may be to tape her up above the waterline and blast the gel clean off the bottom, start with a fresh substrate.
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What kind of power tool did you use on the bottom Craig?
My primary tool is a Bosch 1250DEVS
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_3219.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=11124&title=tools&cat=500)
I bought this when I first started the rebuild. I don't have a large air compressor, so the commonly used DA sander was not an option. This thing has a "normal" and "aggressive" mode, and has been worth every penny I spent on it. I am using 40 grit sandpaper to remove the bottom paint.
I am also using my angle grinder with a poly abrasive disk on it. This disk eats the bottom paint pretty quick, but does not eat the gelcoat quite as quick. Still, it can leave a little dimple in the gelcoat, so I mainly use this to remove the outer layers of bottom paint (until the gel just starts to show), and then finish it off with the Bosch. This helps the sandpaper last longer.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_3221.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=11125&title=tools&cat=500)
As both tools are fairly aggressive, it is very important to keep the tools moving and avoid letting them sand too much in one spot. So far, I am pretty pleased with how it is turning out, but a little fairing putty will be needed here and there where I may have gotten a little distracted.
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Craig, I hate to see this, especially since I had it before you.
Guess all those years sitting in the lake didn't help our cause.
I'm thinking we call Eugene, show him these pics, and get his thinking. One consideration (time, labor and money savings) may be to tape her up above the waterline and blast the gel clean off the bottom, start with a fresh substrate.
Yeah, so much for a pampered lake-kept boat! I have though about calling Eugene, and I was also going to call Chris but it got too late today, so I may do that Monday. My little experiment with the dremel tool today leads me to believe that it really won't be too bad to chase the cracks out - maybe a day or two of my time - and then whatever it takes to patch the hull back up. As long as the final product is satisfactory, I'm good with it. No one said this was going to be easy, right?
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Thanks bud. I assume (without checking the model # first) is that it is a Random Orbital?
The "poly abrasive disk" is just a brutal scotch pad?
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What is the plan for the bottom? Gelcoat? Epoxy barrier and then paint?
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Yes, it is a random orbital, and that is a scotch pad on steroids. I will be gelcoating the entire boat.
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Craig, I hate to see this, especially since I had it before you.
Guess all those years sitting in the lake didn't help our cause.
I'm thinking we call Eugene, show him these pics, and get his thinking. One consideration (time, labor and money savings) may be to tape her up above the waterline and blast the gel clean off the bottom, start with a fresh substrate.
Yeah, so much for a pampered lake-kept boat! I have though about calling Eugene, and I was also going to call Chris but it got too late today, so I may do that Monday. My little experiment with the dremel tool today leads me to believe that it really won't be too bad to chase the cracks out - maybe a day or two of my time - and then whatever it takes to patch the hull back up. As long as the final product is satisfactory, I'm good with it. No one said this was going to be easy, right?
Wish it would have been a lot easier, especially given the last set of pics. An experienced hand on a blaster can make it all go away real quick. And you'll never have to deal with the cracks busting through the old gel an inch away from the former crack....bye-bye, its all gone.
I'll call Chris and Eugene before Monday, and report back.
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Thanks Scott. Looking forward to what they have to say. To keep it in perspective, the cracks are bad in some areas, but other areas look fine. I would say that they are in about a third of the bottom that I have exposed so far.
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Hey, spoke with Chris. He said it is old, dried-out gelcoat, and the same thing was true with Miss D.
His advice is to not use the random orbital, use a pneumatic longboard with 60 grit. Said the RA digs too much unless you really keep it moving. The idea is to take it all down to where the glass begins to show. Then wipe with acetone and spray it with Duratec high-build primer.
Don't worry about the dremel, filling etc.....he says it will come back. Just take it all off. You can also blast with walnut shells or something similar, but he likes longboarding the best as it minimizes the chance for highs/lows.
He had some good tips too for finish work after the Duratec before you spray the gel. Will advise when you hit that point.
Happy New Year!
Scott
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Thanks for talking to Chris for me, ,Scotty. Sounds so simple...just take it all off. That is going to be a lot of work! I don't have a big enough compressor (was going to buy one last year, but got a tower instead). I'll have to think about this. If it was just a few cracks, there is no way we would be considering removing it all. The dremel would be the way to go. Does increasing the number of cracks make it more prone to having the cracks come back? I don't mean to challenge Chris's recommendation, but removing all the gelcoat on the bottom will be no small task.
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Craig, I only have a 25gal compressor and I've been thinking about adding a storage tank but this entails moving the pressure switch to the remote. The switch is piped into the system so it will be a little bit of a hoop to do it. The result would be that I have say 50gals of storage and the tool should run longer before the compressor has to run. I figure once the compressor starts running it'll keep running though ::)
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Rick, I don't think it's a matter of compressor capacity and the ability to use air tools that run longer. I thinks it's about the amount of work Craig is looking at to remove all that gel, including the time to do it.
Myself? I'd take Aaron's advice...bottom paint.
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You could approach it a couple ways. Blast or sand the whole bottom. Or blast or sand the bad areas. It doesn't have to go down to brown glass....just remove the bad. His advice was based upon eliminating problems later. That was his concern on dremeling the cracks after describing the spider-webbing and the fairly large areas it was covering.
He was big on the Duratec. Eugene is too. Since you have her flipped, will work to your advantage. Gets to build rather than run, which was the case on ours...she was never flipped. More on the concrete than the boat.
All good. You're getting a great job, lets keep bangin' :clap:
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Craig, I only have a 25gal compressor and I've been thinking about adding a storage tank but this entails moving the pressure switch to the remote. The switch is piped into the system so it will be a little bit of a hoop to do it. The result would be that I have say 50gals of storage and the tool should run longer before the compressor has to run. I figure once the compressor starts running it'll keep running though ::)
I've actually thought about that, but I only have a pancake compressor right now, so it would be more economical for me to just get a 60 gallon unit. They can be had for less than $500, but let's just say my wife and kids had a pretty good Christmas, and I just finished a good size paver project in the back yard, so the timing isn't perfect for buying more tools.
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Rick, I don't think it's a matter of compressor capacity and the ability to use air tools that run longer. I thinks it's about the amount of work Craig is looking at to remove all that gel, including the time to do it.
Myself? I'd take Aaron's advice...bottom paint.
You and Rick are both right, Bob. I'd rather not buy the tools if I don't have to, and I'd like to eventually see the light at the end of the tunnel.
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You could approach it a couple ways. Blast or sand the whole bottom. Or blast or sand the bad areas. It doesn't have to go down to brown glass....just remove the bad. His advice was based upon eliminating problems later. That was his concern on dremeling the cracks after describing the spider-webbing and the fairly large areas it was covering.
He was big on the Duratec. Eugene is too. Since you have her flipped, will work to your advantage. Gets to build rather than run, which was the case on ours...she was never flipped. More on the concrete than the boat.
All good. You're getting a great job, lets keep bangin' :clap:
Thanks Scotty. I do plan to sand the spider cracked areas down to glass and build it back up with new glass. Will probably do same with other areas that have a high density of cracks. I would chase the individual cracks with the dremel.
If I blast off all the gel, I'm afraid I will end up with a working surface that will require massive amounts of fairing, since the existing gel coat may vary in thickness throughout the hull. I think that is what Chris was getting at when he recommended sanding it. But if I can just focus on the cracks and not the whole bottom, that is my preference. I am still undecided on what I am going to do....
And good advice on the duratec. That is what I will plan to do. How many gallons do you think I will need to spray it, sand it, and spray it again?
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Either way, you're going to get a good job. The main thing is stabilizing what you have in terms of future issues. And a lot of that has to do with usage. A boat sitting in the water 24/7 is certainly different than one stored on a lift/rack/ or sitting on a trailer.
We were fairly impressed with the sand-blaster guy here. Take an estimate on the hours you'll spend with the dremel/filling/ polyester/ glass, etc. in comparison to blast-on-wheels. He showed up for 400 bucks for the afternoon. Removed all of the bottom paint, but had we let him keep going, he could have switched media from soda to more aggressive and blasted off the gel too.
In the scheme of things, pretty reasonable, and may save you three weeks....plus grief and money.
Chris was saying forget the extra glass. Just leave a bit of gel showing here and there. Then let the Duratec do the work on the build-up.
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Yeah, a pancake with an external tank might just burn out the pancake.
I really thought about and almost bought a 60 but it just won't fit in my shop unless I modify the layout a bit - major surgery, or I lose a little flexibility. The diameter of the tank is the same just taller - the problem is the motor is twice the width . I may figure out the right placement to make it happen.
You're right, they're reasonable. Haven't seen a $500 unit yet - HF seems to be around $700.
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Craig, regarding the Duratec volume, he said after proper fairing one good coat should do it.
It changes colors once applied to highlight highs and lows.
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Either way, you're going to get a good job. The main thing is stabilizing what you have in terms of future issues. And a lot of that has to do with usage. A boat sitting in the water 24/7 is certainly different than one stored on a lift/rack/ or sitting on a trailer.
We were fairly impressed with the sand-blaster guy here. Take an estimate on the hours you'll spend with the dremel/filling/ polyester/ glass, etc. in comparison to blast-on-wheels. He showed up for 400 bucks for the afternoon. Removed all of the bottom paint, but had we let him keep going, he could have switched media from soda to more aggressive and blasted off the gel too.
In the scheme of things, pretty reasonable, and may save you three weeks....plus grief and money.
Chris was saying forget the extra glass. Just leave a bit of gel showing here and there. Then let the Duratec do the work on the build-up.
The little bit I did with the Dremel tool went pretty quick. I think I can dremel the whole bottom in a weekend. The one thing that may slow me down is that the tool gets pretty hot. I may need to get another one and alternate. I don't think filling the grooves will take too long, so I'm confident I can do it quicker and cheaper than stripping it all down followed by lots of fairing.
As far as not building it back up with extra glass...that will be a pretty deep divot to fill in with the primer. Just how thick can the duretec be?
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Yeah, a pancake with an external tank might just burn out the pancake.
I really thought about and almost bought a 60 but it just won't fit in my shop unless I modify the layout a bit - major surgery, or I lose a little flexibility. The diameter of the tank is the same just taller - the problem is the motor is twice the width . I may figure out the right placement to make it happen.
You're right, they're reasonable. Haven't seen a $500 unit yet - HF seems to be around $700.
Real estate will be an issue for me as well, but with a little rearranging I think I can make if work.
I was in Tractor Supply the other day and they had a Porter Cable for about $489. Lowes has their brand for about $500, and Home Depot's brand is a little less than that. Rural King also has one for less than all of these. So they are out there. I'll probably end up getting one eventually. There are times (like now) that I really wish I had one.
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If you go the divot route, you'll need to glass and fair.
Then Duratec.
Do you have a sandblast on wheels service there?
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Crystal River is a pretty small town...I don't think we have any mobile blasting outfits.
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All good.
You have a few things to chew on.
Little girl will be a looker regardless...can't wait!
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Real estate will be an issue for me as well, but with a little rearranging I think I can make if work.
I was in Tractor Supply the other day and they had a Porter Cable for about $489. Lowes has their brand for about $500, and Home Depot's brand is a little less than that. Rural King also has one for less than all of these. So they are out there. I'll probably end up getting one eventually. There are times (like now) that I really wish I had one.
I'll have to check them out - didn't figure someone would beat the price at HF. Thanks for the leads Craig.
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Compressors...
Last checked, and that was before Christmas, HF had a 2cyl replacement compressor that is a beast for $175. I don't recall the flow but it was huge, and could be run off a 1.5hp motor. I have a portable Craftstman on a 30 gal tank. The HF will replace that POS "5hp" (total BS advertising number) high speed compressor this spring. It has had a good life for 25 years but is on its way out.
I also have the same 30 gal tank up in the top of the barn that came from the transfer station. Some guy threw it out cause the compressor cooked, I lucked out and got to it before anyone else and before it went in the metal bin, right place right time... That is now plumbed into the HP side of the portable with QD fittings so I can still move the ground floor compressor around if I have too.
Real estate for big tanks and portability are problems for all of us. No reason though why a deal like the HF beast on a pancake would not do the trick for high volume air tools. As has been stated, once the compressor kicks on, it's gonna run till you shut the tool off. At that point, tank size doesn't really matter. And the low speed multi cylinder machines are way more pleasant to listen to. Those high speed ones sound like really mad BIG bees...
Just saw this too:
http://t.harborfreight.com/21-gal-2-12-HP-125-PSI-Cast-Iron-Vertical-Air-Compressor-67847.html?ccdenc=eyJjb2RlIjoiNzQzMTU5NTYiLCJza3UiOiI2Nzg0NyIsImlzIjoiMTU5Ljk5IiwicHJvZHVjdF9p%0D%0AZCI6Ijc3NzQifQ%3D%3D%0D%0A&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=0215c&utm_source=1031&cid=mEmail_s1031_c0215c&utm_referrer=direct%2Fnot%20provided
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My workshop is a one car garage and I put a 16ft bench down one side at 24" deep. That's as deep as I can go and I factored in the 20gal (I said 25 but I looked today and it is a 20gal 5hp) and the beer fridge ;-) in the design at each end. I have table and radial arm saws and another bench on the other wall. BTW, I can barely walk through the shop since I have started this project - boat stuff everywhere and engine stand with engine in the way - man o man will I be glad to get my shop back.
The problem with the 60+ gal jobs is not the tank so much as the 32" wide compressor and motor portion (32" was one I looked at) for my shop. At 5.5' tall that is a head knocker as it would stick out 8" past the bench if I turned it sideways. So that ain't gonna happen and if I put it in parallel with the bench I think it still won't fit. It's one of those "you must go measure the beast before you buy".
I wonder if they make a vertical compressor/motor setup?
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I can barely walk through the shop since I have started this project - boat stuff everywhere and engine stand with engine in the way - man o man will I be glad to get my shop back
You mean I'm not the only one?
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I can barely walk through the shop since I have started this project - boat stuff everywhere and engine stand with engine in the way - man o man will I be glad to get my shop back
You mean I'm not the only one?
Not by a long shot.....
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So as I methodically grind out the crazing on my hull bottom, I am starting to think about what I am going to use to fill in the grooves I am making. A fairing compound with embedded fibers has been suggested. I'm thinking of making my own compound/putty by thickening vinyl ester resin with 1/32" or 1/8" milled fibers (or a combination of the two sizes). My thinking is that the vinyl ester-based compound should have better adhesion than a poly-based product. Anyone have any reasons why this is a bad idea, or suggestions of a product better suited for this application?
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The big question is how are you planning on finishing the hull. If you are planning on gel coat than the vinyl ester resin is a good idea. If you are planning on paint then I'd go with epoxy.
The milled fibers make a very strong filler. I have used that in the past along with some scraps of mat that I chopped up into 1/4" or smaller chunks. This makes a even stronger filler especially if you use epoxy. But the catch is it is hard to sand it and get the hull fair... You could use a mixture of milled fibers and micro balloons to make it easier to sand.
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I plan to gel coat, so I am avoiding epoxy. I like the idea of micro balloons (or glass bubbles). Thanks!
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Ask Chris (dirtwheelsFL) for his formula for his fairng mix - he uses resin, balloons and cabosil. He uses epoxy but just substitute your resin.
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Sounds alot like what Robb Young at Young Boats uses, except with vinyl ester instead of epoxy, and glass bubbles instead of micro balloons. I get the impression that the micro ballons are only compatible with epoxy for whatever reason. But these recipes are more appropriate for fairing surfaces, not filling gaps. For filling gaps, and not have them re-open down the road, more structure is needed, and that is where the fibers come in. At least that is my understanding of it.
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For filling gaps, and not have them re-open down the road, more structure is needed, and that is where the fibers come in. At least that is my understanding of it.
Yea some milled fibers in the mix definitely wont hurt it...
What needs filling exactly? blisters?
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I have quite a bit of hairline cracks/crazing on my hull bottom that I exposed when I removed the bottom paint. I am in the process of opening the cracks with a dremel tool, after which I will fill them in with the proposed milled fiber putty.
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Making some progress on grinding out the hairline cracks/crazing on my hull bottom. I'd say I'm about 50% done at this point.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_3232.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=11349&title=crazing&cat=500)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_3230.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=11347&title=crazing&cat=500)
The forward half of the port side, as shown in the above pics, seems to be the worst of it. So hopefully the worst is behind me.
To break up the monotony of grinding cracks, and give the tool a chance to cool down, I spent a little time reinforcing the console:
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_3227.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=11345&title=22-2-rebuild&cat=500)
And gelcoated it:
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_3229.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=11346&title=22-2-rebuild&cat=500)
That will hopefully give me plenty of area to attach battery switches, fuse blocks, etc.
Question on extending the keel...is there any rule of thumb on how close to the stern it should be? I would like to extend it to 4" - 6" from the edge, but in the pics I've seen on this forum they don't seem to go that far.
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looks good craig! where do you plan on putting your access hatch for the console?
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Craig, I'd leave the keel extension 12" shy, give the water some room to collect before it hits the prop, good clean water for the prop to see...
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looks good craig! where do you plan on putting your access hatch for the console?
Thanks, Aaron. I made the storage bin below for the rear side of the console, and I will probably make a hatch like yours for the front. Between the two, I should be able to reach whatever I need to in the console.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_3042.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=10326&title=storage-bin&cat=500)
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Craig, I'd leave the keel extension 12" shy, give the water some room to collect before it hits the prop, good clean water for the prop to see...
Good thought there, Bob. Sounds like a plan :great02:!
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Craig, Bob had a good idea on our bin installs. He back screwed them from behind the console, screws long enough to bed but not poke through. Nice clean look.
She's looking great...nice work!
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Nice job Craig. The bin looks good - maybe I forgot, if you posted on this already, what did you make it out of?
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Craig, Bob had a good idea on our bin installs. He back screwed them from behind the console, screws long enough to bed but not poke through. Nice clean look.
She's looking great...nice work!
That is a good idea! Especially since I haven't drilled any holes in the frame yet. I'll have to see how accessible the back of the console is from the front access opening. This is a fairly small console, so my chubby old body is not gonna fit in there easily. Maybe I can separate the bin from the frame and access it that way...hmmm...got me thinking....
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Nice job Craig. The bin looks good - maybe I forgot, if you posted on this already, what did you make it out of?
Thanks Rick. Yup, posted it a while back. It is made of 1/2" starboard.
I am probably going to make the front access door out of starboard too. Can't seem to find the exact size I'm looking for, and the custom ones are damn pricey.
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Since the console isn't in, maybe you could install it and some other stuff outside the boat... flip the console upside down and work from the bottom? I'm not a good contortionist either. My gut slows me way down...
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I will be doing that as much as possible, but the bin needs to be removable to some extent since it will be right over the rigging tubes and I will likely need to pull something new in the future.
I will be installing most of the electrical items (battery switches, ACR, fuse blocks, bus bars, etc.) on a starboard panel that I can mostly rig up on the bench and then install the unit as a whole. The more work I can do outside the console, the better!
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Nice job Craig. The bin looks good - maybe I forgot, if you posted on this already, what did you make it out of?
Thanks Rick. Yup, posted it a while back. It is made of 1/2" starboard.
I am probably going to make the front access door out of starboard too. Can't seem to find the exact size I'm looking for, and the custom ones are * pricey.
15x23 OD was the largest hatch i could fit on the front of my console.... i of course spent some coin on the teak isle hatches...
(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a148/recklesabandon727/1968%2022-2%20flatback%20rebuild/IMG_20141104_175849.jpg)
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That's a great looking door, Aaron. Your width looks perfect, but I would like about 7 or 8 inches of more height. Anything to make it easier for an old guy to get a battery in and out. Note that I dont have that crossmember on mine.
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Some of the things I've been working during the colder weather the past few weeks is the console and the electrical stuff (battery switches, ACR, fuse boxes, etc.). I made an access door out of starboard for the front of the console that allows me to open the top half for normal access to battery switches and storage, and the bottom half for when I really need to get into the console, like when I replace batteries. I plan to have a cooler/seat in front of the console, so this setup allows me normal access without having to move the cooler.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_3237.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=11553&title=console&cat=500)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_3238.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=11554&title=console&cat=500)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_3239.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=11555&title=console&cat=500)
I didn't want to squeeze myself into the console to install all of the electrical components, so I mounted them on a piece of 1/2" starboard, which I will then install in the console when it is fully assembled. I put it in temporarily to see how it will look.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_3240.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=11556&title=console&cat=500)
I still need to add a latch to the door, and screw a piece of starboard to the top/back of the bottom door to keep it closed when the top is closed, etc., but I must say it feels good to actually see a little progress once in a while!
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looks awesome craig! wish my console had a big door on the front like that but no way with the tower cross bar there, can you believe i was able to squeeze myself in there to do a lot of the rigging... i can tell you even only being 25, my knees still felt it after being crammed in that hole for so long
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Thanks Aaron! I remember you telling me that you fit in there...I'm about twice your age, and quite a bit heftier than you, so there is no way I'm fitting in, even with the big door. My 205 Osprey is a real PITA to do any work in the bilge, and the console's not too pleasant either. So I'm trying to make this boat a little more maintenance and old people friendly.
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Looks great Craig :thumright: Nice big access.
You're making quite an investment in Starboard - last I priced it, it was very pricey :shocked:
You have a private dealer with great prices that you want to share? :wink: :wink:
Hell, the prices at Marine surplus for a 1 foot piece (1/2 or 3/4) is crazy.
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Thanks Rick! Actually, the local Home Depot started carrying starboard last year. They only have 1/2" x 2' x 4' sheets, and they run about $55 each. That's less than $7/sq ft - not too bad if you ask me. It took one sheet to do the door, and one sheet to do the electrical rigging panel and its twin for the other side of the console (where I'll mount the battery charger, NMEA 2K backbone, etc.), with a little left over. I do like working with starboard!
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One thing to think about, and why I added a seat to my console, is the gap that will be created by the difference between the angles of the console and the cooler. Maybe you can plan a nice fat back cushion to fill it other wise the person on the cooler will not be comfortable if they lean back onto the console. My cooler/console angles left a 6"+ gap at the seat level :021:
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That's a very good point, Rick. I do plan on mounting a cushion on the upper door section, but that will only help so much. Eyeballing it, I think I will have about a 4" gap. So with the cushion, it will probably still be about 2". I'm not going to worry about it now, but if it does become a problem, maybe I'll try building a cooler with an appropriately sloped back side.
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My console isn't in great shape anywhere to get knew one
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My console isn't in great shape anywhere to get knew one
the console craig, corey(florida196), and myself are using a console from Panga marine. we used the one without the seat built into the front, http://boatconsolesandbaitwells.com/?product=guide-model-without-seat this is the one with the seat http://boatconsolesandbaitwells.com/?product=guide-model-console-with-seat give Rob or Tom a call and mention me, Aaron from The Harborage Marina with the Aquasport
couple pics of mine, the small footprint makes the inside of the boat feel much bigger.
(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a148/recklesabandon727/1968%2022-2%20flatback%20rebuild/KIMG0190.jpg)
(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a148/recklesabandon727/1968%2022-2%20flatback%20rebuild/KIMG0191.jpg)
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A little progress lately. The hull has a hook in it, like many of these old boats do. When I first eyeballed it, it didn't strike me as too bad, so I was leaning towards not worrying about it. Besides, I really want to get this thing finished before my kids go off to college in 4 or 5 years, so if I can avoid some extra "unnecessary" work, all the better. But then I saw Rick tackling his, and it gave me a little inspiration. So I laid a 4' straight edge along the hull bottom, and whoa, quite a bit more of a hook than I thought. The widest gap was about 3/8". I used the straight edge and some shims to map out some contour lines, cut some 1.5 oz mat, and built the areas up. Today I checked again and there are a few low spots still, so I did the same process. Now I think it is pretty close to where it needs to be.
A couple of pics. This is after the first attempt at filling the hook, and before the final attempt. The contour lines are visible from both attempts. Starboard side:
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_33691.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=11895&title=flatbuild-rebuild&cat=500)
Port side:
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_3370.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=11896&title=flatback-rebuild&cat=500)
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I have opened all the craze cracks with the dremel and filled them with a VE/milled fiber/micro balloon mix and sanded them flush. But I am still worried about them re-appearing in a year or two. So I sanded down most of the areas on the sides where cracks existed to bare glass. On the entire bottom of the hull, from chine to chine, I plan to add a layer of 3/4 oz mat usng VE resin. Then I will use Arjay 7121 VE fairing compound to get the hull fair, followed by Duratec VE fairing primer.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_3371.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=11897&title=flatback-rebuild&cat=500)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_33721.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=11898&title=flatback-rebuild&cat=500)
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OK, last update for today. I think I have finally figured out what I am going to do for the deck drains and scuppers. I got this little guy from Gemlux:
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_3373.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=11899&title=duck-bill&cat=500)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_3374.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=11900&title=duck-bill&cat=500)
It is a duckbill insert, and fits inside their 1-1/2" forged thru hulls. I bought the insert first so that I could see how it is made and get a feel for how it may work. I think it will work great. It takes extremely little effort to open it, and closes very easily as well. So next week I will probably order the rest of the parts (thru hulls, hose adapters, and deck drains). I just need to decide if I'm going to go out the transom or out the sides. I'm leaning toward transom, as that would still give me the option of ping pong scupper covers if these don't work as well as I hope. Any opinions? It will still be a while before I am ready to install them, but I like to buy bits and pieces along the way, rather than getting hit with a lot of expenses in a short amount of time. In other words, it's easier to hide what I'm spending from my wife if I do it in small bites :67:
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The duckbills work pretty well - just have to watch out for trash getting stuck in them. Trash will allow them to backflow.
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The little feedback I've seen on the duckbills have been favorable, but I agree that trapped debris could be a problem. That is why I bought a single insert before committing to the rest of the components (I've got enough things I'm not going to use). I was afraid it would take a little force to open it, which would make it more likely to catch debris. But it really does open extremely easily, so it shouldn't take much flow to clear it out. Plus the deck drain will have a perforated cover, so it will filter the larger trash like leaves and twigs.
I've waffled so much on the deck drain setup, I just need to pick something and go with it. I think this is a reasonable option.
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A little progress lately. The hull has a hook in it, like many of these old boats do. When I first eyeballed it, it didn't strike me as too bad, so I was leaning towards not worrying about it. Besides, I really want to get this thing finished before my kids go off to college in 4 or 5 years, so if I can avoid some extra "unnecessary" work, all the better. But then I saw Rick tackling his, and it gave me a little inspiration. So I laid a 4' straight edge along the hull bottom, and whoa, quite a bit more of a hook than I thought. The widest gap was about 3/8". I used the straight edge and some shims to map out some contour lines, cut some 1.5 oz mat, and built the areas up. Today I checked again and there are a few low spots still, so I did the same process. Now I think it is pretty close to where it needs to be.
A couple of pics. This is after the first attempt at filling the hook, and before the final attempt. The contour lines are visible from both attempts. Starboard side:
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_33691.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=11895&title=flatbuild-rebuild&cat=500)
Port side:
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_3370.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=11896&title=flatback-rebuild&cat=500)
A little progress lately. The hull has a hook in it, like many of these old boats do. When I first eyeballed it, it didn't strike me as too bad, so I was leaning towards not worrying about it. Besides, I really want to get this thing finished before my kids go off to college in 4 or 5 years, so if I can avoid some extra "unnecessary" work, all the better. But then I saw Rick tackling his, and it gave me a little inspiration. So I laid a 4' straight edge along the hull bottom, and whoa, quite a bit more of a hook than I thought. The widest gap was about 3/8". I used the straight edge and some shims to map out some contour lines, cut some 1.5 oz mat, and built the areas up. Today I checked again and there are a few low spots still, so I did the same process. Now I think it is pretty close to where it needs to be.
A couple of pics. This is after the first attempt at filling the hook, and before the final attempt. The contour lines are visible from both attempts. Starboard side:
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_33691.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=11895&title=flatbuild-rebuild&cat=500)
Port side:
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_3370.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=11896&title=flatback-rebuild&cat=500)
That didn't seem to take too long, looks good Craig.
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Over the last two Fridays I added a layer of 3/4 oz mat to the bottom to cover the crazing. As I previously mentioned, I opened and filled the cracks with a vinylester resin/milled fiber/glass bubble mixture. The mat is an added measure to hopefully prevent any existing cracks from migrating to the surface of the new gel coat, in case I didn't do an adequate job of addressing the cracks with the filler. I still need to clean up most of the edges where the mat extended past the chines and the keel, but it is close to being ready for fairing. You can also see the keel extension that goes to about 10" from the transom.
Here is a question for you all...I used VE resin with the layer of mat. I didn't use any wax in it. On the starboard side, which I did over a week ago, I just let it cure on it's own, and as you might guess, it is still slightly tacky, and gums up the sandpaper pretty quick. On the port side, which I did this past Friday, I sprayed a light coat of PVA over it in hopes that it may cure harder and sand easier. However, it is also slightly tacky after about 2+ days. What are my options now? I am trying to sand it with 40 grit to just level and roughen the surface so that I can apply some fairing compound. Should I apply more PVA to the whole surface? Could I wash it to remove the PVA, and then roll a coat of VE resin with wax in it to get the surface to harden? Since it is still slightly tacky, will fairing compound adhere to it the way it is (after removing the PVA, of course)?
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_3948.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=12129&title=22-2-bottom&cat=500)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_3949.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=12130&title=22-2-bottom&cat=500)
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I wish I had a great answer (or any answer) for you Craig. I know that wax closes off the air and the poly (or VE) resin cures. Without wax the resin remains tacky and I think Capt Matt was able to get two or more days (5 rings a bell) before it needed to be sanded for a bond.
I think eventually the resin will off-gas enough and will become tack free.
I think wiping with Acetone might cut it? That's what I use with poly. Not sure what the cleanup agent is with VE though.
Otherwise, maybe where you bought the product may have the answer?
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Craig, it will eventually cure, but I wouldn't wait if I was you. Personally, and I may be wrong, I would spray with pva to seal it off. The exposure to the air inhibits the cure.I would probably roll the pva on, that way it goes on nice and thick.
Make sure to let us know how it comes out, and what you decide to do of course.
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Thanks Rick and Carl. I didn't know if there was a "window" after which it is too late to cover with PVA. I will coat it tomorrow and see how that works. Hopefully that will do the trick.
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Ok, I applied a generous amount of PVA tonight. I figure I'll let it sit till Wednesday evening and wash it off. Should that be enough time? What is the best way to remove it? Just water? Soap and water? Hot water? Pressure washer?
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I would most likely use the pressure washer, if it was me. It should take it all off, no problem. I would hope that it is cured by tomorrow, if not I would guess that it isn't going to???
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Yeah, pressure washer sounds good. I may scrub it with soap and warm water too. If I don't remove it before Thursday, I won't have a chance for the next two weeks. I don't know if that may help it cure more, or if it may make it harder to remove. I can't wait to get the bottom behind me.
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Yeah, pressure washer sounds good.... I can't wait to get the bottom behind me.
Craig, see if you can get it to come of in sheets before you hit it with the pressure washer, which may peel it off in sheets anyway (fingers crossed). Your other comment makes me not want to flip mine over. LOL.
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Carl,
I'm thinking (hoping) that my boat is the exception and not the rule. The amount of crazing I uncovered when I removed the bottom paint was shocking. Some had suggested removing all of the gel coat on the bottom. In retrospect, I'm not sure if maybe that would have been better, but I am where I am now. Slow progress, but I'm getting there.
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I was wondering how everything turned out? Any updates?
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Hi Carl. I was going to remove the PVA Wednesday evening, but since I probably won't be able to do any work on it for a couple of weeks, I decided to let it sit for a while. Maybe that will help ensure the resin cures fully? Hopefully the PVA doesn't get harder to remove the longer it sits.
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I totally understand (not to derail), I was tasked with "other things" like mowing the yard, spraying for weeds, shopping for things I need to cut down the top of my fence and cap it, etc. Never got a chance to do any work on the boat either. Plus it was smoking hot here - maybe 90?
Back on topic ;-) I don't know anything about PVA, so no clue how it'll work the longer you leave it on. As long as it seals the air out I would think it'll work.
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There always seems to be "other things". In my case, I had cataract surgery yesterday. Damn it sucks getting old...and I'm not even 50 yet! Anyway, they say it takes 2 weeks for eyes to heal, so I'll be taking it easy till then. Don't want to chance getting anything in my eye and royally screwing it up. But I am allowed to drink!
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Wow, hope you can resist working on the boat :whistle:
They say that everyone is growing a cataract - it's just a matter of time.
I hope your eyesight, or critical eye, is not better now after you've done all the work, otherwise you may never finish the bottom.
I hear you about the getting old part :salut:
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I hope your eyesight, or critical eye, is not better now after you've done all the work, otherwise you may never finish the bottom.
LOL. Before I glassed the bottom, I washed it down. While it was wet, I looked at it from several angles. And it didn't look too bad. I almost said "heck, it's just the bottom. It's good as-is!" But the inner me won't let me get away with that. Not that it needs to be perfect, but I at least need to try to make it better. Hopefully that won't take too much effort. And if it doesn't look good, I'm blaming my eyes, even if they are better now than they were before!
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Cataracts! S.O.B. Well it seems like everything went well and that is good. I'll also be standing by to see how that PVA acts after sitting for a few weeks.
Heal up my friend!
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Cataracts! S.O.B. Well it seems like everything went well and that is good. I'll also be standing by to see how that PVA acts after sitting for a few weeks.
Heal up my friend!
Big thanks for the pressure washer recommendation, Carl :thumleft: The PVA came right off. The water turned a nice green tint as soon as it hit the hull, and it all rinsed right off.
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Cool
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I forgot to ask, was the resin tack free now?
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It feels tack free to the touch. We'll see what happens when I try sanding.
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I'm glad to hear that everything worked out. I was pretty curious myself as to what the pva would do sitting for an extended period... Now we know, and knowing is half the battle!
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Anything new?
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Hi Carl. I've got my transom just about fair. I keep trying to finish it when I get home from work, but our afternoon/evening showers have been getting in the way. The bottom is also mostly sanded, and ready for fairing compound. I'm hoping to have a productive day tomorrow (I work 4-10's, with Fridays off, so that is when I get most of my work done). Hopefully I'll have some pics to share late tomorrow.
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Boy I miss 4-10s....
Anyway, I am glad to here you have been plugging away. I am getting lonely in the flatback forum.... LOL!
I look forward to seeing your progress.
Happy fairing!
:sign0103:
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Well, made a bit of progress today on the transom. Here is what it looked like before I started fairing. This was actually taken last weekend:
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_3375.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=12410&title=fairing-the-transom&cat=500)
I didn't take pictures of all the stages, but here is the process. First I used some evercoat fairing putty. I only had a small container - enough to do about 3/4 of the transom. I finished the rest with some Arjay VE material I recently purchased.
Which brings me to this little bit of advice...make sure you know what you are buying! I originally ordered some Arjay 1201 polyester fairing compound, but at the last minute I changed it to Arjay 7121 vinylester fairing compound, figuring I would go for the better bonding characteristics. At least I thought it was intended to be used as fairing compound. The stuff went on really good. Good working time. Easy spreading. Nice and smooth. But after it cured, what a PITA :41:. I contacted the Arjay folks and they said they never saw it used this way, but it may work as a fairing compound, but they didn't recommend it. So I ordered some 1201 which should be in Monday. The 7121 wasn't cheap (around $250 for a 5 gallon pail), but I should be able to use it for bonding the deck to the stringers. I won't need nearly 5 gallons for that, so much of it will be wasted :03:. Anyway, back to the fairing.
One method Robb Young (Young Boats) suggested for fairing is to use thickened gelcoat. So while I'm waiting for the 1201 to come in, I gave that a try. I coated the transom with a layer of gelcoat (with wax additive). I sanded the surface to remove the wax, then sprayed/wiped the entire transom with a dykem blue/acetone solution.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_3376.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=12413&title=fairing-transom&cat=500)
Then sanded with the long board to reveal the low spots.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_3378.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=12411&title=fairing-the-transom&cat=500)
Painted those low spots with more thickened gelcoat, and then gave the entire transom another coat, and faired again.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_3381.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=12412&title=fairing-the-transom&cat=500)
I have a couple of minor spots to touch up, but I think the transom is almost done. I also got a little done on the sides. Overall a pretty productive day I think.
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Looks good Craig. How'd the longboard work for you?
When I did the console (part 1) I sprayed gelcoat as a fairing layer, figuring it was thicker and would fill a lot. It worked good - didn't thicken it though. Did you roll that on or "spread"it on? Hey, it's poly in the end.
I hope to have a spraying party this weekend - giving the console it's last gelcoat spray, the final primer on the bottom and maybe the VC Performance on the bottom. Wish list anyway.
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Thanks Rick. The longboard was a lot of work, and my arms are a bit tired, but it wasn't too bad. I think gelcoat has a fairly short window where it sands pretty easily. So I sanded it as soon as it was hard. The type of paper also makes a big difference. I have been mostly using 3M green corps. I used it on my DA when I removed the paint from the hull, and it worked so well I bought the adhesive strips for my homemade longboards. I also tried some belt sander sandpaper that I glued to the longboard with adhesive spray. It wasn't nearly as effective.
I thickened the gelcoat with glass bubbles, but it was still thin enough to roll on.
Wish I could make it to your party, but alas it is Father's Day weekend, so we will have our own partying to do. Good luck with all your painting goals!
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Yup, I have two daughters that will succeed in making my plans a wish list. I'll get something done though.
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Man, that is a lot of work you got done! Looks great too!
Thanks for the update, I look forward to the next one too!
Til next time, :salut2:
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Thanks Carl. I wish you were a little ahead of me on this stuff. I look at what you do and think "I wish I thought of that"! Thankfully I have Rick!
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:85:
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Uhhh. I don't know about all that.
Thanks.... I guess.... :confused1:
I wait for Rick too! :85:
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Not too much to report, but I wanted to give Carl some company on his bottom work. If you recall, my bottom was covered with craze cracking pretty much from front to back. I ground them all out and filled them with a VE/microfiber/glass bubble mixture and sanded them flush. I was still afraid they may come back, so I covered the entire bottom with 3/4 oz mat using VE resin. I sanded that, but the mat still had a rough finish, so I coated 1/2 of the bottom with gelcoat thickened with glass bubbles (I will do the other half in the near future).
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_3447.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=12583&title=bottom-fairing&cat=500)
Next I sanded it all down to a pretty smooth finish with 40 grit, but it is hard to tell the difference in the picture.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_3450.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=12584&title=bottom-fairing&cat=500)
Tonight I sprayed it with some dykem blue, and hopefully I can hit it tomorrow with the longboards to see just how bad it is.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_3451.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=12585&title=bottom-fairing&cat=500)
I don't plan to spend too much time trying to make the bottom perfect, I just want to fix any major imperfections. I have been struggling with the sides lately - they were pretty wavy. The sides are one area where I think the extra time is warranted. A big thanks to Rick for lending me his longboards :tu:. They are proving to be invaluable. I'm hoping tomorrow I can pretty much finish the starboard side, and then start on the port side. This fairing board stuff is really wearing me out, especially in 90+ degree heat. I look forward to getting this phase behind me.....
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Yeah you can go crazy on a boat bottom just to end up with a boat bottom :roll: I'm hoping to outgrow that part of my OCD soon - maybe in the next couple weeks I'll succeed.
Glad the boards are working out for you, or is it the other way :lolG: Wore me out too but really took down the fairing material quickly. Let me know if you ever get to the 2nd sheet of 40. If anyone else needs to borrow these let me know.
Looks good Craig :vsalute:
I would have to look back through your thread but I think you did lay all new cloth in all of the hull, correct? And you braced everything before doing so. So the hull is solid/secure. So the waves in the hull sides are from what?
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I'm sure I screwed it up somehow. I had the chines supported as well as the keel. Maybe it shifted? I did glass the insides, including 2 layers of mat and 2 layers of 1708 from the top edge down past the chines. I also used a DA to sand the paint and primer off the sides, but I would expect random low spots if that caused the problem, instead of waviness. I never noticed how bad it is until I recently shined a flashlight along the sides at night and could see the shadows in the valleys. It's getting better, but it is taking a while. Here is a pic of how I supported the chines.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_2136.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=7052&title=222-rebuild&cat=500)
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Looking good! Great work!
I follow your restoration. Sorry for not posting earlier
// Lars
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I'm sure I screwed it up somehow. I had the chines supported as well as the keel. Maybe it shifted? I did glass the insides, including 2 layers of mat and 2 layers of 1708 from the top edge down past the chines. I also used a DA to sand the paint and primer off the sides, but I would expect random low spots if that caused the problem, instead of waviness. I never noticed how bad it is until I recently shined a flashlight along the sides at night and could see the shadows in the valleys. It's getting better, but it is taking a while. Here is a pic of how I supported the chines.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_2136.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=7052&title=222-rebuild&cat=500)
I don't remember that pic - talk about a diamond in the rough. :c029:
My advice is throw the flashlight away ;-)
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You are doing a super awesome job! Wow! I dont know that I would have had it in me to go the far, I probably would have put bottom paint on it and been over it. Lol!
I wonder if the wariness you have in the sides is from the consoles and other modifications that were done to your hull? Regardless, like you are saying that is what everyone sees and kind of needs to be done right.
Edit: Does Scott still refer to your boat as your and his boat? Sorry, I just had to ask... :sign0151:
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Thanks guys. I have to admit that I sometimes look at the hull and the less than ideal condition it is in and wonder "WTF am I doing?". I appreciate the positive feedback. I really gives me the motivation to keep going. I just hope this boat ends up being something I'm not embarrassed to be seen on.
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I just hope this boat ends up being something I'm not embarrassed to be seen on.
:57:
You'll have a FB that was customized by your two hands with the best knowledge all your searches took you to and it'll be a fine example of American Ingenuity. :you_rock:
Plus it'll float :thumleft:
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Thanks Rick. Just got back from watching the Crystal River fireworks show. Every boat I passed I looked at how fair their sides were. I'm not giving up - it may take a while, but I'm going to make every effort to get it right. And if that fails, maybe a wrap will hide any imperfections?
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After many days and nights of apply fairing compound, sanding, sanding, sanding, more fairing compound, more sanding, etc, I have finally called it "good enough" and primed the hull.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_3458.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=12693&title=primed&cat=500)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_3457.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=12692&title=primed&cat=500)
I used Duratec VE fairing primer on the bottom (it is actually a light blue), and Duratec surfacing primer on the sides. I sanded it all down with 80 grit, and tomorrow I will drop it off at Young Boats for new Gelcoat. I'm going to have Robb look it over with his professional eye and see if anything needs correcting. After Robb sprays it I will bring it home to do the wet sanding and polishing.
They say that with paint, 90% of the work is in the preparation, and with gelcoat, 90% of the work is in the finishing. It only took me about 6 months to prepare the hull for Gelcoat. So I figure I should be done polishing it around 2020 or so :bangbang2:.
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looks good! have you decided on a color for the hull yet?
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May come down to a coin flip tomorrow, but I'm leaning towards sea foam.
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i vote for any kind of gray lol
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i vote for any kind of gray lol
Haha! I actually thought of your boat as soon as I started priming it. I like it, but have always liked the light green shades.
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Wow, what a difference :cheers: Looks like a different boat :clap01:
Congrats Craig. Did you ever wear out the first sheet of paper?
If Rob is going to be using the Duratec additive there should be a shine when he returns it, then you start finish sanding it with 400, 800, 1200 (maybe), and buffing with 2000 and maybe 3M "finesse it" to take out the swirl marks.
Some reading:
http://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=7844.msg60785#msg60785
http://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=2217.msg21701#msg21701
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Thanks Rick. I did go through a few sheets of the 40 grit. Not because I wore them out, but because I had a little trouble getting the fairing compound to cure initially, and ended up gumming up the paper. And Robb does use the Duratec additive. I can't wait to start wet sanding -thanks for the links!
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What are you going to use for the sanding machine with water? HF is the way to go for that.
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I've got a Griots Garage 6" DA, which is functionally similar to the Porter Cable that Mike Phillips uses in this Ship Shape TV video. Hopefully that will suffice for the wet sanding. And I've got a Makita 9227 for the polishing. I'll try to document everything and take lots of pictures.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YK2XVXX-Kzk
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That looks great!
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Thanks Carl. It is not perfect, but it is not too bad either. I've got it strapped down and hooked up to the truck, ready to roll out in a few minutes. I hosed it down to see what it looks like wet.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_3460.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=12695&title=img-3460&cat=500)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_34611.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=12696&title=img-34611&cat=500)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_3459.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=12694&title=img-3459&cat=500)
When it is wet you can see a few minor imperfections. I'll see what the shop thinks about it. I head out on vacation this weekend, so my goal for the last two months was to drop it off for painting before I leave. If I took another week working on it, I could probably get it a little better, but it has to end sometime. For me, that time is now ;-).
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Well, I assure you it looks good from Michigan!
Have an excellent vacation, we'll be here when you get back. :salut2:
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Looks good from Sarasota too - enjoy your vacation Craig.
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Thanks Rick. I'll send back the longboards and paper when I return. Once the boat is gelcoated, I'll be sure that I don't need them anymore.
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Picked the boat up today! Went with Seafoam on the sides/transom. Seems a little more bluish than I anticipated, but also looks greenish in the right light. I like it either way, as light blue was something I also considered.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_34621.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=12751&title=gelcoat&cat=500)
The folks at Young boats also sanded and buffed a small section of the bottom and side to give me an idea what the final finish will (or at least should) look like.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_34662.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=12754&title=gelcoat&cat=500)
My wet sanding supplies should be here by Monday, so I should be starting that phase next week.
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looks great craig! :thumright:
now hurry up and get it sanded/buffed and bottom side down before the sun kills it!
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What a pleasant change - looks GREAT :cheers:
I know you feel relieved that all that is behind you. Hows the sides look for fair? Do they pass your critical eye? Looks good to me.
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Thanks guys! I'm hoping to get it sanded and flipped in a couple of weeks, but we'll see how that goes. And as far as how fair she is, well, not perfect, but not too bad either. It'll do :thumleft:.
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What was the process they told you to do to get it looking like they have those spots?
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They used a 5" DA and wet sanded with 220, 400, and 600, and then buffed. They also applied dykem blue before each sanding grit. They completed the area in the pic in about 1/2 hour or so, and felt it would take them 2 full days minimum to do the whole hull.
I ordered 320, 400, 600, and 800 grit before I learned what they used. I am going to start with what I ordered and see how it goes. Since this is my first time doing this, I don't want to be too aggressive anyway.
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Wonder why the dykem? maybe to make sure they get everywhere sanded? :think:
They must have used some 2000 or 2500 when buffing?
I just masked the boat bottom off and it started raining.... :bangbang2:
Going to be hit and miss if I can paint this weekend :a0002:
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I didn't ask them what they used for buffing - I'm thinking something like Buff Magic or some other cutting compound with a wool pad on a rotary tool. I have some Buff Magic, as well as some Marine 31 Captain's One-Step Compound and Polish. A decent video on sanding and buffing new gelcoat can be found here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YK2XVXX-Kzk), although he went to a lot finer grit paper than I plan to.
I can't start sanding yet as I don't have the paper, but we are also getting lots of rain here too. A good weekend for indoors work.
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Are you getting good at wet sanding yet?
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I don't know about getting good, but I am getting more experienced. After doing the transom with 320/400/600, I got some 220 so that I could pick up the pace a little bit. I did both sides with 220/400/600, and half the bottom with 220. I did screw up a few places and sanded through the gel, so I will need to sand those areas with 120 grit, then re-apply new gel/duratec and re-sand. I am going to attempt that with a Preval sprayer (or several if needed), based on Robb's recommendation. I'll post more details on that when the time comes, which will hopefully be next Friday. I have been applying Dykem blue between grits - it really helps keep track of where you are and when you have sanded enough. Here are a few pics of the progress:
Transom with Dykem blue, ready for sanding:
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_34671.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=12824&title=wet-sanding&cat=500)
Transom after 600 grit:
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_3487.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=12826&title=wet-sanding&cat=500)
Starboard side after 600 grit (still has a lot of sanding residue on it):
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_3488.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=12828&title=wet-sanding&cat=500)
Area where I went too far:
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_3486.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=12827&title=wet-sanding&cat=500)
I still need to buff it, which I will do after I finish sanding the bottom and fix my screw-ups. It's getting there....
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:thumleft:
Seems you got that done fast - was that only one weekend of sanding?
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If I was able to work on it continuously, it could probably be done in a long weekend. But in this heat, I have to break it up into pieces. I typically do an hour or two a few nights a week, and probably 4-5 hours on Fridays.
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It has been rough the past few days - I think the "feel like" temp was around 105.
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This morning I worked on fixing some of my wetsanding mistakes. Recall I had gone a little too deep in a couple of areas. I picked up a quart each of seafoam gel, white gel, and duratec additive, as well as 3 complete Preval sprayer kits and 3 Preval powerheads. I am not done sanding the bottom (white) yet, so today I focused on the seafoam areas. I sanded the areas with 120 grit. There were three areas on the side that were about a foot or so apart, and I ended up treating them as one big area to simplify the fairing/blending process. I also had one area a couple feet forward of the stern, and one on the bottom corner. I taped each area off and added plastic to minimize any overspray.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_3492.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=12845&title=gel-coat-repairs&cat=500)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_3490.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=12843&title=gel-coat-repairs&cat=500)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_3489.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=12842&title=gel-coat-repairs&cat=500)
Here are some of the products used today
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_3493.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=12846&title=gel-coat-repairs&cat=500)
The Preval sprayer comes with a small filter on the bottom of the suction tube. I removed that since the gel coat is thicker than most paints, even with the duratec. However, the duratec does thin it enough that additional thinning was not required.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_3494.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=12847&title=gel-coat-repairs&cat=500)
This is my first experience with the Preval sprayer, so it was somewhat of a learning experience. My first batch of gel coat was 6 oz (3 oz of seafoam and 3 oz or duratec). I got about half way through the bottle when it started to kick. I first thought the powerhead was losing its charge, so I installed a new powerhead. No joy. Wasted one powerhead, one bottle, and 3 oz of gel coat/duratec. So first lesson learned - mix small batches. My next attempts were made with 3 oz batches, and that seemed to work well. I ended up using the remaining 2 kits and 1 more powerhead, and shot about 12 oz of gel coat/duratec. A couple things to note: this sprayer shoots a very fine mist and does not leave as rough a texture as a normal spray gun. This should lead to less sanding - I'm going to start with 400 and see how that goes. I'm hoping I sprayed enough gel, but we will see after sanding. Another thing - taping off the areas was probably unnecessary, except where the repair area was next to the white bottom. There is very little overspray. I kept the nozzle a few inches from the surface and it left a fine, controlled pattern.
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Here is how it turned out. Obviously I still need to wet sand it, which will probably happen Sunday or during the week. Overall I really like using the Preval sprayer, but it is definitely suited to small jobs.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_3497.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=12849&title=gel-coat-repairs&cat=500)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_3496.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=12848&title=gel-coat-repairs&cat=500)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_3498.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=12850&title=gel-coat-repairs&cat=500)
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That's the beauty of gelcoat - easy to repair if you have the original color. Nice work Craig.
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Thanks Rick. I'm real impressed with the Preval sprayer. I think it is a great tool for small gel coat repairs or projects. What I did today may be a little more than an ideal use, but it seems to have done the trick. And cleanup simply involves rinsing out the glass bottles with acetone.
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Looks like you made some good progress though :thumleft:
Does the sprayer allow you to get 5 or so mils thickness so you can have something to sand? Do you think your sanding machine is too heavy. I think the one I bought could also be - I need to be careful on this paint.
That's what I love about this site - we're all willing to share our mistakes so others learn :nSalute:
Lord knows I've spent several times over what I initially planned to do some things, to undo the mistakes I've "learned through". Hey, live and learn and keep moving forward - that's my motto.
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The sprayer puts it on pretty thin, but I put on lots of layers, so I'm hoping I have enough to work with. If not, I'll just be adding more. I'm using a Griots Garage DA, which looks like a right angle grinder. It's not exactly light, but it's not really heavy either. I'm actually pleased with how it is working.
One other thing worth sharing...with the dykem blue, you sand until the blue is gone. The valleys and small dips are the last things removed. There were some pinholes that I chased too far, which led to the areas I had to correct. I had no issues on the other side, but I knew what to look for there. I left the deeper holes and filled them with gel coat using a small craft brush. I probably filled about 25 little holes that way.
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Getting closer to calling the hull gel coat adventure "done". Spent today buffing it out. There are a couple of areas that I'm contemplating sanding and re-spraying, but they aren't real bad, so I may just leave them as-is. If all goes well, I'll be having it flipped back upright next Friday. Pictures are great, and I cant get a side shot due to the house and wooded lot next door, but you get the idea.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_3510.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=12895&title=buffed-gelcoat&cat=500)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_3511.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=12896&title=buffed-gelcoat&cat=500)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_3512.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=12897&title=buffed-gelcoat&cat=500)
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:whistle: :whistle:
What a pleasant change. I know you're feeling great. A big milestone. :08:
As I explained to you about the runs I had in my first spray job, I know my eye would always go to those spots so I sanded it all down and redid the job. I still have spots on the bottom that aren't quite as shiny and only I will see (or maybe a person with a keen eye) but I won't be able to see the bottom anyway. I have a couple spots on the hullsides that a keen eye will see too but I deemed it good enough, and it does look really good anyway.
If you feel the same way about some spots, it's not worth the "should have" feeling that you'll get later if you don't try to improve them. It will only postpone the flip a little in the scheme of things.
She looks very pretty now. Sure makes you appreciate skills the guys that do this sanding and buffing all the time have though. I know I do.
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Thanks Rick. Funny you should say that about appreciating the people that do this for a living. That is exactly what I was thinking while I sweated my azz off today. I may have a few people look at the boat and see if they notice any "blemishes". I actually think I can fix them without impacting the flipping schedule, weather permitting, since I can work on it a couple nights next week. We'll see.
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Did you get her flipped?
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Sure did Rick, this past Friday. Pretty uneventful, thankfully. I'm still not happy with one side of the hull. I'll end up sanding a section of it with 120 and spray some more seafoam. I don't need it upside down to work on the sides, so I didn't let that hold me up. Now I'm getting ready to get back to work on the floor too. I'm really looking forward to getting the deck in :woohoo:!
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Any progress Craig? It was a nice weekend, weather-wise, for working on the project.
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Some progress. I have been working on the hatches for the bilge and tank areas. I need to finish them and mount the receivers in the deck before I can install the deck. I'll post some pictures soon. I also had to spray more gelcoat on the port side of the hull because it was too thin. One step forward and two steps back it seems.
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Yup, I've been getting pretty good at that 2-step process myself :danceSm:
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Sorry I haven't checked in for a few weeks, been burning up dinosaurs with those thirsty OMC's on the new ride.
Anywho.... That gel looks freaking spectacular!!!!!!!!! :singing: :singing: :singing:
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Thanks a bunch Carl! I wish it was done, but I still have a large area to wet sand and polish, and two smaller areas to rough up and respray. I think it was a little thin to begin with, and I probably sanded a little too much. Not a good combination.
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Just a quick update on my slow progress. I spent a bit of time over the past few weeks making hatches and receivers for them. Way back last year (holy crap it has been a year already!), when I made my deck, I formed the areas where the hatches will be so that it would accept a receiver and still sit flush.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_3150.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=10804&title=deck&cat=500)
First I built the hatches using leftover 3/4" coosa. I apologize for not taking many pictures. This is the only one I have of the mold. I clamped 1-1/2" pvc in the corners and filled the voids with bondo, and then used clay to make the fillets around the perimeter.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_3517.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=13113&title=hatches&cat=500)
I sprayed gelcoat, and then 2 layers of 1708 before bedding the coosa. I left about a 1/4" gap around the coosa, and then filled that gap with resin thickened with cabosil and 1/4" fibers. I then put on 4 layers of 3/4 oz mat. After I removed the hatches from the molds, I routed the radius on the edge of the mat side and sprayed the bottom with seafoam gelcoat.
Then I made the receivers. I used the hatches as templates, with a paint stirring stick to set the gap around the perimeter of hatches. Sprayed the gelcoat first...
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_3521.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=13105&title=hatches&cat=500)
And then 3 layers of 1708. I staggered the outer edges of the layers of the flange so that they would better match the recessed areas of the deck. I added a fourth layer just on the sides and recessed areas of the receiver so that it would add a little more strength without increasing the thickness of the flange.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_3523.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=13106&title=hatches&cat=500)
Here is one of the receivers.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_3524.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=13107&title=hatches&cat=500)
And here it is with the hatch in place and flipped upside down.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_3526.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=13108&title=hatches&cat=500)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_3527.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=13109&title=hatches&cat=500)
Lastly, I mounted the receivers in the deck. Damn leaves are falling all over the deck and staining the crap out of it. I guess I need to put a tarp over it until I get it installed.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_3528.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=13110&title=hatches&cat=500)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_3530.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=13111&title=hatches&cat=500)
Still need to finish glassing the receivers in around the perimeter, but I'll probably wait until the deck is installed in the boat.
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Those came out real nice Craig - looks professionally done :thumleft:
What are your plans for sealing water out? Are you going to have hinges or handles/latches?
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Thanks Rick. If you look close there is a small lip on the inside edge of the receiver. I'm hoping to either find some soft rubber edge trim to slip on there, or just some soft rubber strips to glue to that lip of the underside or the underside of the hatch. Either way I don't expect it to be 100% watertight, but hopefully better than nothing.
As far as hinges, latches, etc....I have some Southco compression latches for them. I haven't decided if I'm going to use hinges or do something similar to what Chris did with dogs on the side opposite the latch. I did route out the coosa and made the glass extra thick where the hinges would go in case I go that route. That way I could use recessed hinges.
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A little more progress...got the deck installed today...woohoo! Since I'm mostly working solo, I had to make a little hoist setup so that I could lower/raise the deck for proper fitment. Worked like a charm.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_3543.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=13159&title=deck&cat=500)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_35461.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=13160&title=deck&cat=500)
Next up is the casting deck.
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Huge milestone :cheering2:
How did you attach the sole to the stringers?
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A while back I mistakenly bought a 5 gallon bucket of Arjay VE bonding putty. Expensive stuff. This is one of the few things I figure I could use it for.
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OH YEAH!!!!!!!!! :103:
(http://cdn.meme.am/instances/400x/54941232.jpg)
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Lol! Thanks Carl. I just keep hoping that I didn't forget to do something below the deck before I permanently installed it :think: .
Did you ever sell your flatback?
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No, didn't sell it. It seems that I am just too far away and too set on my price to get her gone. I will most likely finish her and sell her unrigged. My motor just went bye-bye this past weekend, so I'm running low on parts to finish it anyway. LOL!
In all seriousness, you did a great job on the deck! :sign0098:
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Must be gantry season. Built me one last week! Got another 222 in the driveway for rebuild too :103:
(http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/yy167/dirtwheelsfl/Snapbucket/96F0FEA2-0397-4473-B7CA-2308DA0299F2_zpsona2gcsr.jpg) (http://s788.photobucket.com/user/dirtwheelsfl/media/Snapbucket/96F0FEA2-0397-4473-B7CA-2308DA0299F2_zpsona2gcsr.jpg.html)
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Both gantries looks very stout :thumleft:
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No, didn't sell it. It seems that I am just too far away and too set on my price to get her gone. I will most likely finish her and sell her unrigged. My motor just went bye-bye this past weekend, so I'm running low on parts to finish it anyway. LOL!
In all seriousness, you did a great job on the deck! :sign0098:
Thanks Carl! A little selfish here, but I would love to see you finish her. Your rebuild so far is looking awesome. And maybe by the time you are done, you will be ready to expand your fleet of operating craft.
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Must be gantry season. Built me one last week! Got another 222 in the driveway for rebuild too :103:
Nice Chris, wheels and all! With as many boats you rebuild, I'm sure you will put it to good use!
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Both gantries looks very stout :thumleft:
Thanks Rick. It did work like a charm. I picked up a cheap harbor freight hoist that was worth every penny.
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It's been a while since I posted any updates, so here is what I've been working on lately....
Got the front storage area pretty much ready for the casting deck:
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_3582.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=13511&title=casting-deck&cat=500)
Made the hatch for the casting deck:
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_35592.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=13505&title=casting-deck&cat=500)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_3585.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=13512&title=casting-deck&cat=500)
And got most of the casting deck done....
Melamine form with gutter:
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_35672.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=13506&title=casting-deck&cat=500)
Gelcoat:
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_3569.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=13507&title=casting-deck&cat=500)
Nidacore weighted down with pavers, and coosa vertical panel:
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_35711.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=13508&title=casting-deck&cat=500)
Additional nidacore for stiffness (still needs final layer of glass):
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_35731.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=13509&title=casting-deck&cat=500)
And tonight I popped it from the mold. Well, mostly anyway. I still need to get most of the gutter form out of the gutter. The wife wasn't happy having to park her car outside with 30 degree mornings, so I had to clear my stuff out of the garage. I probably won't get back on this until Friday.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_3574.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=13510&title=casting-deck&cat=500).
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Good to see you back at it Craig. Very nice job on the hatch and the deck looks very stout and well made. Another milestone. :bravo_2:
We've had some severe weather here the last couple weekends with winds above 45mph at times so I didn't get much done.
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Thanks Rick. We've had some nasty weather up here too. I was able to do this work in the garage, so the weather wasn't much of a factor. But the smell of gelcoat and resin filled the house and didn't make the wife very happy :aom:. Luckily I think this is the last big item that needs to be made in the garage. Most everything else can be done outside.
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:laugh03: when I brought the seat home and told my wife that I was going to store in in a spare bedroom she said "you are going to do what!!" But she let me in the house with it and even helped me carry it in. :thumleft:
Did you have to treat the melamine with anything? I found some 1/4", looks to be masonite, with white smooth something on one side at HD and was going to try to make a mold for the storage tray under the seat with it.
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I usually wax the melamine with mold release wax, and sometimes I spray PVA on it. For this project I waxed the gutters only, and then sprayed PVA on everything. I used the same melamine sheets for the main deck about 1-1/2 years ago and stored them in the garage for this project and hatches, etc.
I'm not familiar with the 1/4" stuff. I used 3/4". The sheets are 4'x8' and very stiff, which is extremely important when you are making a large flat surface such as a deck. If the 1/4" lays perfectly flat, I don't know why it wouldn't work.
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Good to see you back Craig. :thumright:
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Thanks CB!
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Forgot to ask - did you roll the gelcoat on? I am not sure why you couldn't do that since the mold is relatively smooth and the gelcoat should lay down a little, especially if you use a short nap roller. What do you think?
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Actually I sprayed the hatch gutter form, as well as the vertical surface (step), but I rolled the rest. The rolled part came out pretty good, but I did get a little gatoring of the gelcoat on several areas of the gutters. Shouldn't be too hard to fix, I hope.
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Made a little progress on the boat, but also decided that I want to add an anchor locker to the cap. So making the locker and hatch was my most recent project. I took more photos than usual, so I apologize that this will be a pic heavy post.
First step was to make the hatch using melamine board for the form.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_3674.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=13732&title=anchor-locker&cat=500)
I will be using flush mounted Gemlux friction hinges, so I needed to make a couple forms for those as well. A piece of acrylic of the same thickness as the hinge did the trick. I made a sandwich with the hinge, acrylic, and a piece of wood so that I could take a dremel tool to it to get the right shape (using the actual hinge as the pattern).
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_3677.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=13734&title=anchor-locker&cat=500)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_3678.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=13735&title=anchor-locker&cat=500)
Here you can see one of the hinge replicas mounted, and I am using PVC pipe to make the rounded corners. I packed the corner void with Bondo to make the form corners.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_3681.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=13737&title=anchor-locker&cat=500)
I used clay to make the fillets around the corners using these tools I made from threaded balls.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_3683.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=13740&title=anchor-locker&cat=500)
Here is the hatch form ready for wax and PVA. Notice I used some blue painters tape in some areas. This does a good job of keeping the gelcoat from sticking just in case...
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_3689.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=13741&title=anchor-locker&cat=500)
Then I sprayed gelcoat, and added a layer of mat after the gelcoat kicked (but was still tacky). Ultimately I added in a couple layers of 1708, a 1/4" core of Nidacore (pre glassed), and a layer of 1708 and mat on top.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_3692.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=13743&title=anchor-locker&cat=500)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_3699.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=13793&title=img-3699&cat=500)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_3709.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=13795&title=img-3709&cat=500)
And here is the cap after I trimmed it up a bit
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_3711.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=13797&title=anchor-locker&cat=500)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_3710.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=13796&title=anchor-locker&cat=500)
Next up - the actual anchor locker...
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To make the anchor locker, I started with the hatch I had just made. I set the hatch back on the melamine in the same location it was in when I made it. This ensured that the hinge forms would align perfectly. I used some paint sticks to set the gap around the hatch and screwed some blocks to the melamine. This set the perimeter for the anchor locker
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_3712.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=13798&title=anchor-locker&cat=500)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_3715.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=13799&title=anchor-locker&cat=500)
I then screwed the form for the anchor locker lip to the melamine, making sure the pieces were hard against the blocks. The corners are the radius of the 1-1/2" PVC pipe I used for the corners of the hatch, PLUS the thickness of the paint sticks (or about 1/8"). It is important to remember to increase the radius, otherwise the gap will not be even in the finished product. I then flipped the board over and put screws into the form from the other side and then removed the screws from the top side. I did this to make it easier to remove the form from the locker when it is finished.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_3718.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=13800&title=anchor-locker&cat=500)
I then installed the "walls" of the form. I used several pieces, and used a brad nailer to hold them in place. Again, this was to make the pieces easier to remove.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_3719.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=13801&title=anchor-locker&cat=500)
Next I added the form for the bottom of the locker. It also is made from several pieces so that if could be removed easily.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_3721.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=13802&title=anchor-locker&cat=500)
Then came primer, sanding, some drain channels made from popsicle sticks with tape covering (they were an afterthought), and wax and PVA.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_3725.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=13803&title=anchor-locker&cat=500)
Finally it was time for gelcoat, mat, and a couple layers of 1708.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_3727.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=13804&title=anchor-locker&cat=500)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_3729.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=13805&title=anchor-locker&cat=500)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_3730.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=13806&title=anchor-locker&cat=500)
And here it is when I removed it from the form (with the hatch laying in place). I still need to clean it up and trim the edges, and cut the opening for the anchor, but it is getting there. I have a piece of 3/4" starboard that will go in the bottom with straps to hold the anchor in place. I'll get that finished in the next week or so.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_3736.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=13808&title=anchor-locker&cat=500)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_3733.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=13807&title=anchor-locker&cat=500)
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Wow Craig, you're getting pretty good at this. This is for hanging a Danforth type anchor? It'll look nice when installed.
I think I see a possible new career path in your future - still get to use your brain and MechEng skills too :thumleft:
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Thanks Rick! I am feeling more comfortable doing this type of work. While I still haven't made a part that came out perfect, I think the amount of correction I need to do afterwards is getting smaller. A lot of that has to do with tips I've picked up along the way, such as Chris's advice of putting thickened resin in the tight radius corners before laying the glass. That really helps avoid voids, which was one of my biggest problems. Hopefully posting lots of pics and the approach I took will help someone in the future who wants to build a locker, hatch. etc.
And yes, it will hold a Danforth type (Fortress) anchor. And as far as future career path...it would be fun as I enjoy doing it, but I certainly wouldn't make any money at it. Thanks though!
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Capt. Koz would be proud.
Excellent Craig. :thumright:
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great work Craig!
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Thanks guys! Captain Koz sure did some great work - I wish he would get back on the forum. He took this stuff to the next level.
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Just a quick update on the anchor locker. I added a starboard insert with cutout and channel for the anchor, as well as some Southco strap latches to hold the anchor in place. I tried it out with the Fortress from the 205. In retrospect I wish I didn't make it so deep, but I think it should work out ok
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_3738.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=13821&title=anchor-locker&cat=500)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_37421.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=13823&title=anchor-locker&cat=500)
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Nice design Craig :thumleft:
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Thanks Rick!
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Are you going to be able to use a trolling motor on the front now?
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Are you going to be able to use a trolling motor on the front now?
If I do, I will need to rig up some sort of special bracket I imagine. The anchor locker will certainly make it more challenging.
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the footprint of the ipilot is pretty small, i dont think it would interfere that much.
(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a148/recklesabandon727/1968%2022-2%20flatback%20rebuild/KIMG0844.jpg)
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Good pic Aaron! That should clear the anchor locker no problem!
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for more size reference, i have an 8 inch cleat on the bow, looks some what small
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My locker will be where your cleat is. The hatch is 9-1/2" wide, so it will take up a little more room than your cleat, but that shouldn't be a problem. However, my cleat will go in front of the anchor locker, so the trolling motor will block access to the cleat. So I will need to get a little creative if I do put a trolling motor on her.
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SPLASHED THE BOAT TODAY!!!! :singing:
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_0850.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=13980&title=splashed-sort-of&cat=500)
Ok, this doesn't really count. I picked up an Owens and Sons trailer yesterday, so I dropped her in the water for 10 minutes to transfer her to the new trailer. But she floated!!!!
Big thanks to Aaron for recommending Owens and Sons. Great people that make a great trailer. I'm very happy with it so far. And I found it kinda funny that the picture on the top of my invoice is Aaron's boat sitting on his trailer :thumleft:.
Here's mine getting ready to go back to its hiding place for more slow rebuilding progress.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_0854.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=13981&title=new-trailer&cat=500)
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Looks like a nice setup Craig. Do I see the casting deck installed? Maybe I missed that part of the build?
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Looks like a nice setup Craig. Do I see the casting deck installed? Maybe I missed that part of the build?
Yes, I guess I never posted that on here. The deck and casting deck are almost done. Getting ready to gelcoat the interior hull sides.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_3744.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=13985&title=222-flatback&cat=500)
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looks great craig! take a couple more pics of the trailer. did they do the adjustable center bunks on yours?
if you check their facebook page my boat is their profile pic
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Yes, it has adjustable center bunks. I went with the standard width trailer, not wide like yours, since I have a tight fit where I park it. I'll post some picks soon. I'm not on Facebook, so I don't think I can access their page.
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Jeff told me he was going to use me as a guinea pig with the adjustable center bunks for the flat backs. They worked out pretty well, he's built 4or 5 trailers since
(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a148/recklesabandon727/Screenshot_2016-05-16-06-14-12.png)
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Awesome! Yes, he did say that this is how they do the flatbacks now. I still need to adjust mine - they are currently not touching the bottom of the boat. But is seems like an extremely well built trailer.