Classic AquaSport
Aquasport Model Rebuilds, Mods, Updates and Refreshes => Osprey Style Hull Rebuilds => 200 Rebuilds => Topic started by: Aquamaniac on February 13, 2014, 04:57:37 PM
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Well, looks like I can officially join the Aquasport fan club!
Happy to say I pulled the trigger on the 1990 200 Striper. :D
Let's say I got boat/motor/trailer package pretty cheap 8)
Really pretty clean overall...but a few issues need addressing and I will likely fall on kind for forum folks for advice ..so fair warning! :lol:
GoneFission and others helped with some thoughts on the ancient motor (84 Merc 150).... BTW.....compressions were all in 105-115 range. Cold started and ran quite well.
Wonder if they (or anyone else) have experience with the external trim/tilt on that motor. Hear solenoids clicking, but no up/down. Solenoids bad? motor bad? Way to check?
Two fiberglass issues....
Found a small soft area to the left of the flip/flop cooler seat where some 'idjit' put three screws into the deck. Needless to say....the screws pull right out ...along with some rotten core. Can this be fixed and hold up? Method you would recommend?
At the bow, appears the same 'idjit' pulled the eye hook almost through the hull. Checked inside the anchor hatch and the rectangular
bossing is cracked/broken. Outside hull is OK. Should this area be filled with glass then redrilled? Methods/materials?
Uploaded some pics taken at seller's place. Hope to get her home and start repairs/cleanup Saturday. They went to gallery, but now I don't know how to get them here. :scratch:
BTW....the tow light bar on top of the windshield is a bit goofy, but you can overlook them. Have some work to do on trailer as well. :roll:
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Well, not only can I not figure out how to get pics from gallery to thread, I see I mislabeled pics :oops:
How do I rename pic files in my gallery?
It is a 1990 if the HIN ending in 90 means what I think it means. 'Spose it could have been built in 90 and sold as a 91?????
Anyway, it is what it is........early 90's 200 Osprey Striper.
As I clean her up, I will post some 'after' pics. Just hope I don't have to move them to the Rebuild forum..... :lol: :lol: :lol:
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(http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh301/seabob4/Smilies/posting.gif)(http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh301/seabob4/Smilies/posting.gif)(http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh301/seabob4/Smilies/posting.gif)
Congrats, AM!!! A most happy Thursday...if only it was warmer! Shakedown cruise! Saturday will be nice...
Unless her HIN was changed, she's a '90, could have been built in late '89 after model year changeover...but not a '91. Big deal, who cares.
CB will figure out your pic issue, I just use photobucket, so I don't have to deal with figuring out the gallery.
Once again, congrats!! And BTW, what's your name? I'm Bob, lest you couldn't figure that out from my screen name... :thumright: :thumright:
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Congrats AM :!: :!:
Posting from our photo gallery to your topic is the same as posting from photo bucket or any other photo hosting. There is a sticky in every forum that explains how to post pics - you just need to spend 5 or 10 minutes reading it. It's very easy and most of the info are pics.
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Sounds like typical stupid PO (Previous Owner) Induced Problems SPOIP .... (hey I just cam up with that one and I LIKE it LOL). Owning a older used boat can be frustrating when you see small dumb things a PO did that caused damage to and otherwise perfect boat. Depending on how bad the screw holes are damaged sometimes a larger screw lathered up in 5200 will fix it. If not than enlarging the top of the hole and filling it with some epoxy thickened with some milled fibers will do the trick. For the bow eye it sounds like the eye wasn't resealed and water was able to get in and rot the wood backing board inside the hull. The best bet is to remove the eye and replace the wooden backing block. Even better get a thick hunk of starboard and shape it to fit. Re-drill the holes, butter them up with 5200 and reinstall the bow eye.
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OK...let me try this.....
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//694/91_Aquasport_4.jpg)
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BINGO....you CAN teach an old dog new tricks!
Here's another....
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//694/91_Aquasport_2.jpg)
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At the risk of getting carried away.....a profile shot.... :)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//694/91_Aquasport.jpg)
Got to love the mismatched wheels and no spare.....hmmmmmm.....but it WAS a deal (at least I hope :roll: )
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The boat looks excellent! Trailer needs some work...it's a Boat Master, excellent trailer built in Sarasota. So you just need some new bunk carpeting (the green... :lol: ), some fenders, clean up the wheels...
And the light bar across the console grab rail! Too cool!!!
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Congrats man,
You are sure this engine is oil injected? The cowling is '78 which would make it a 50:1 pre-mix engine, not that it matters much, just an observation.
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Hey Bob,
Yep....I had to shake my head when I saw that light bar and tag over the console....guess it got the job done.
Pics don't show it, but I was quite surprised as to how nice this boat was. A good cleaning/buffing, some oil on the wood, and it will look close to new. Even rub rail has the little rope like center and good end caps.
The transom amazed me.....not even little spiders....particularly after I was seeing a lot of significant cracks in the others I looked at.
I'll work on the little soft spot where the 3 screws were (can't imagine what they were there for) and the bow eye.
Windshield has lots of little spiders/crazing at the bottom. (anyone with a good extra one?)
Bimini top and cover good...although needs new hold down straps (any good sources?)
Trailer is dual torsion axles (rusty) , so-so wheels and tires/no brakes/no fenders/no guide poles ....so yes.....some work is needed :(
All in all, I hope to get it squared away in reasonable time frame...enjoying the fixing.. and definitely enjoy it in the bay.
Thanks for any and all help....let the games begin!
Tom
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Fitz: Good observation...you have hit on what seems to be a can of worms! :shock:
In fact I an now NOT sure of what this motor really is!!!!!!!!!!!
He said it was a 150. He says he replaced the thermostat and the impeller and says he told parts he thought it was a 91 150.Says the parts he got were identical to what he removed and went back in and functioned correctly.
HOWEVER........
when I plugged in the serial number from plate on the mount......it comes up a 200HP motor on Mercury site. Another parts site shows this serial to fall in 1984 for 150 .
So....how the %^&* do I determine WHAT this motor really is????????????????
ARRRGGHHHH....so much for a deal????????
Please school this poor old man on old Mercury motors :scratch: Thanks!
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Man... Love the lines on that girl!!!! Congrats Tom :salut:
Just take her one repair at a time! Share some pics on your sea trial this weekend if you go out.
Tight Lines,
B
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Tom, Farley (Fitz) is THE Mercury man! You're in good hands, fear not... :cheers: :cheers:
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Congrats! That is one of my favorite models. I had a 1996 200 osprey, which was essentially the same boat. I think you will be happy :thumleft:
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Thanks to all...
CLM: good to know.....and reassuring. The boat's condition is really what pushed me to pull the trigger.
Bob: I sure hope Farley can shed some light on this motor. I can't begin to get things ordered and fixed if I can't even tell what the beast is (my BAD) At least the beast ran! (sigh) Pretty hard to seatrial with no tilt/trim. Not to mention getting trailer freed up to work on it!
Sometimes I wonder about me........ :roll:
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Late to the party (been working late and outside rebuilding my dang engine again), but congrats, Tom! Figure she'll clean right up....and as much as you're overwhelmed right now, I'm guessing you'll learn to LOVE that ol' Merc as long as she's not already beyond salvation. The simplicity of those '80's engines just can't be beat. Make that trailer safe to tow and get your azz on the water!! :cheers:
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Fitz: Good observation...you have hit on what seems to be a can of worms! :shock:
In fact I an now NOT sure of what this motor really is!!!!!!!!!!!
He said it was a 150. He says he replaced the thermostat and the impeller and says he told parts he thought it was a 91 150.Says the parts he got were identical to what he removed and went back in and functioned correctly.
HOWEVER........
when I plugged in the serial number from plate on the mount......it comes up a 200HP motor on Mercury site. Another parts site shows this serial to fall in 1984 for 150 .
So....how the %^&* do I determine WHAT this motor really is????????????????
ARRRGGHHHH....so much for a deal????????
Please school this poor old man on old Mercury motors :scratch: Thanks!
Well she may have been pieced together which is somewhat common for older motors; not a big deal since most of the parts were the same from the 150-225 hp across the span of 2 decades. The key number to get is off of the welch plug (aluminum plug) about the size of a quarter with the powerhead serial # located on the block. Then we can determine if she is a 122 or 142 cu in. and we'll go from there.
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Welcome aboard Tom!!!
Don't worry about the Trim and tilt, symbols system and easy to work on.. What are you symptoms? Up and down solenoids are on the starboard side of the engine, trim release screw is on the same side and is NYLON so BE CAREFUL if you decided to mess with it. nylon threads with an o-ring on the outer side that has a habit of holding the damn thing in place aiding in stripping the threads..
It will be an adventure, remember it's about the journey, not the destination... :salut:
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It will be an adventure, remember it's about the journey, not the destination... :salut:
Are we there yet? :lol: :lol:
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It will be an adventure, remember it's about the journey, not the destination... :salut:
Are we there yet? :lol: :lol:
Bob we ain't six feet under so I am gonna guess,,,, no... :mrgreen: :thumright:
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Late to the party too, but...
Congrats on your new ride, and WELCOME to the Aquasport Sportsman's Society :cheers:
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You and Carolyn back home Scotty?
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Bob, thanks for asking. Thank goodness the power came on late today. Carolyn was over here surveying things. Her sis was with her, and according to her sis...
When Carolyn saw that line truck from Indiana it was like she was shot out of a cannon :lol:
Glad I was at work :mrgreen: God Bless those Hoosier boys! :thumright:
Sorry Tom for the quick derail...back on-topic :wink:
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Sorry Tom for the quick derail...back on-topic :wink:
Like that's never happened before!!! :wink:
Tom, you'll find, as you hang around here more often, that we are like family. Some of us are the adults...and some of us are the kids!!! :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
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^^^^
Yep. All about family :thumright:
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Happy to be part of the family! Although kinda reminds me of that line " I wouldn't be a member of any club that would have me as a member". Sad to say, I have a way of raising lunacy to an art form. :lol:
Certainly excited about getting on with the project. Spent today cutting out the bow tow eye backing and reglassing everything. Built up inside the hull with several layers, then resin/mat encapsulated marine plywood , then more layers. Pretty happy with how it turned out, Will drill holes for the U bolt, install with some stainless fender washers to help spread the load, then tow her home. Realized I had to fix this first late last night! Course the kicker was I have to take winch arm loose to be able to drill holes.
Here's a couple pics.....first is the pocket left after cutting out the glass and rotten/split wood. U Bolt still in place. Fortunately the hull was not hurt . Second is the completed repair prior to drilling holes. Hope it is solid enough.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//694/20140214_131428_resized.jpg)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//694/20140214_164155_resized.jpg)
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Farley: Thanks for the info...I will check on it (Monday) and let you know . Hopefully this motor can be sorted out. Sure would make it nice if I knew what it really was. I suspect it is a Johnny Cash motor......but hey ...if it runs......
dburr: Trim/tilt unit is separate inside transom in right corner.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//694/trim_tilt.jpg)
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Good job on the bow block Tom... :thumleft:
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Thanks, Bob......not entirely sure it will be a good a fix as the original wood was thick and beveled. I reinforced hull with several layers of wetted mat then tried to fill in the angle with chopped up mat, some wet mat encapsulated little wedges of the 3/4 marine ply...more layers, more thick goop, pressed wet mat encapsulated rectangular block of 3/4 marine ply into all that, then more layers of wetted mat. All wet layup. Went through a quart of resin and a yard of 50" mat. After the fact I wondered if I should have used some other layers of biaxial or such....but hope it will be strong enough.
Do have a question ..... what would you use in the bolt holes to seal them? Marine silicone caulk? Can't just squirt a bunch in the holes since need to push threaded bolt through and be able to thread nut onto it. Guess I'd put bolt half way in, try to get some caulk around outer half threads, push almost all in, add more caulk on the bow surface under the plate, completely tighten, then clean up around plate. The stuff under plate I removed seemed to be a bit rubbery rather than hard adhesive.
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Use 5200 on bow and stern eyes. First, oversize your holes to 9/16" (if your current bow eye has 1/2" threads), makes it a WHOLE lot easier to get that bow eye through. Shoot some 5200 in the holes and around the holes. Push the bow eye through, trust me, it will seal. The 5200 on the threads actually makes an excellent anti-seize (without having to actually get the dreaded "magnetic" anti-sieze can out!). Backing plate, then fender washers and 1/2-13 locknuts. If you didn't have a backing plate, you can fab one out of some aluminum stock you have laying around...
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Good job on the lock repair. Sounds like you built up the vee in front of the block well. Use 3M 5200 to seal up the bow eye. Butter up the U-bolt and slide her in. Make sure a good bead of it is under the plate when you pull her in. Fender washers are a good idea, however a aluminum backing plate would be even better. Have plenty of shop rags handy since 5200 seems to get everywhere on it own!
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Ha Bob beat me too it... LOL
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Oh, forgot to mention. The "overdrill, fill with epoxy, re-drill to finished size" crowd will be along soon enough... :roll:
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I'm on the ball this morning, Bruce!! :cheers:
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Wear some disposable gloves :thumright: ....that 5200 is a nasty mess :shock:
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What the boys have said plus a little counter sink on the outside will make for a nice "gasket" of goop on the outside..
As for the repair, rock on! Damn near looks like solid glass at this point.
Something goofy is going on.. You should have the same trim system as the rest of that era Merc owners unless there has been some shade tree engineering going on.. The trim pump and ram(s) are housed between the transom mount brackets on a stock engine of that vintage. What you have a picture of looks like the trim unit off an outdrive, I had one similar to that on an ancient Mercruiser 120 except all the plumbing came out of the top..
Take a look here and see if this looks similar to what is on the motor:
http://www.boats.net/parts/search/Merc/ ... parts.html (http://www.boats.net/parts/search/Merc/Mercury/1984/1200644/POWER%20TRIM%20COMPONENTS/parts.html)
What are the symptoms? Clicking/bleed down/ smoke/ minor explosions/fires? Have you looked at the oil level? Juz wonderin....:scratch:
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Thanks...I'll pick some up. Is quick setting as good a sealer?
Not sure you are talking about a big aluminum plate or something like orig (?)
This is what came out....
http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//694/bow_eye_2.jpg
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dburr: I suspect this motor is indeed a chimera.....the unit I have is sitting inside the transom in the corner where controls exit.
Seems interesting that there are also these wires exiting the front of the motor.....
http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//694/motor_front.jpg
What's up with that????
I will hopefully get the holes drilled Monday, install eye, then run by a fella here that knows these old Mercs. In fact, he dug through his old parts and found a unit just like what is in my pic that he tested and works for $50. Might be scabbed together, but if it gets the job done .......
Had pondered adding a Baystar hydraulic steering kit....but first need to sort out the basics......like total junk or not???????
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No I'm talking about a 1/4" or even 3/8" thick aluminum plate that is say 2" x 4". That will spread the load out over a larger area. Which when pulling the weight of the boat is a good thing.
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No I'm talking about a 1/4" or even 3/8" thick aluminum plate that is say 2" x 4". That will spread the load out over a larger area. Which when pulling the weight of the boat is a good thing.
1/4" will do the trick...
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Gotcha! Will try to find some aluminum stock.
Hmmmm.....not sure there is enough length on threaded ends to go through repair and 1/4" aluminum :scratch:
Will drill holes Monday and try. May have to install eye without sealer, reinstall winch post and tow home. Once home, I will then have to uninstall winch post, remove eye, reinstall with 5200, then install winch post. Reason being, even the quick set is 24 hr for cure and I need to get her home Monday. Lots of extra work, but such is life.
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Tom, how far is the tow? A ratchet strap from each fwd cleat to the winch stand will keep her in place.
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Tried to repost the pic with no luck.. :oops: :oops:
Without looking at the manual I am as certain as my last beer that you are looking at the trim motor pig tails.. Not the end of the world, just the Russian judge is gonna have to come off a 3 for difficulty..
Bob, Farley, Ryan, Loye!!!! What say you?
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Dave,
While indeed those leads may be for the TNT motor that USED to be there, all that should be going back to the trim rams is the hyd hoses...now. Easiest way to find out is to trace them. Older Mercs (you know this) had the solenoids in the lower pan on the front side of the PH. The red wire in the engine harness (and from the engine mounted trim switch) led to the batt side of the starter solenoid, then a heavier gauge went to each solenoid...IIRC...
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Tom, how far is the tow? A ratchet strap from each fwd cleat to the winch stand will keep her in place.
Good point. You could even load her like that, with invention.
Get her home, then deal with it :thumright:
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Scotty, I've pulled 22 footers loaded on triple axle Myco's meant for 37s. Bow eye was like a mile from the winch! Ratchet straps will keep that little girl safe and secure... :thumleft: :thumleft:
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Tried to quote the picture of the motor 4 times and gave up....
I don't see external trim rams on the motor. Don't know how they the old trim motor/pump hooked to an internal system?? Didn't put 2 and 10 together until D mentioned it. FAAARRRRRRRLLLLLEEEEEYYYYYYYY????????????
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Loye first round I missed it too.. This is gonna be an odd duck.. I think a little shadetree engineering went into fixing a problem.. Nothing wrong with that if it works and can be fixed.. No clue how you'd plumb the hydro into what is essentially a closed system.. I had an 84 150 Marriner and it had a normal trim system so this is kind of odd..
Gonna be interesting to see what is between the mounts..
Are we all out to lunch Farley? :scratch: :scratch:
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Tried to quote the picture of the motor 4 times and gave up....
I don't see external trim rams on the motor. Don't know how they the old trim motor/pump hooked to an internal system?? Didn't put 2 and 10 together until D mentioned it. FAAARRRRRRRLLLLLEEEEEYYYYYYYY????????????
Early to bed, early to rise.
Farl will be on this at 5:30 AM like a hair on a biscuit :thumright:
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I will take some pics of motor and mount Monday when I go back to pull her home.
Anyone see any problem (like potential cracking...especially if slight oversize hole) in towing with eye, but no sealer in place, then sealing when home?
I could add straps from cleats as well. Should note he gave me really nice aircraft tiedowns for each side of the rear that hold it down and forward. They are heavy duty and fit so well they are almost 'custom'. :) Doubt it would go anywhere even with only having front cleats secured. The tow is 25 miles is only or so. Having a hard time not jumping in the truck today and dragging her home, but want to stop by the mechanic (shop right on the route) Monday and see what he has to say. I will run the points folks mentioned above by him and report back.
Now I am beginning to have some serious doubts on my 'deal'.......sure hope I can make it work! :?
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Ratchet strap over the aft cockpit area right over the gunnels, (doesn't beat a transom strap but it will do). Then put the bow eye on with a few fender washers at this point and pul her home, you can do a permanent fix when you have access to your shop and you stuff. Working at a distance is no fun! Winch cable on and tight and another strap on the bow eye pulling straight down and she'll be secure enough to pull up to Scotty's house! :mrgreen: :thumright:
We will cross the chicken bones for a good ride and no cops or stupid drivers!
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Tom, don't over analyse, strap her down tight and let it roll!!! :cheers: :cheers:
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Tried to quote the picture of the motor 4 times and gave up....
I don't see external trim rams on the motor. Don't know how they the old trim motor/pump hooked to an internal system?? Didn't put 2 and 10 together until D mentioned it. FAAARRRRRRRLLLLLEEEEEYYYYYYYY????????????
Early to bed, early to rise.
Farl will be on this at 5:30 AM like a hair on a biscuit :thumright:
Remember fellows, I thought that this engine may be a hybrid, cause at least she has '78 cowls which gets us back to the big single ram trim piston with a boat mounted hydraulic pump and hydraulic lines running back into the boat to the pump. That system was through '82-'83 I believe. I need the PH number and the midsection number. Not sure why we're seeing wiring coming out from under the pan but my guess is the trim pump got power and up /down harness wiring from the main engine harness. I think everything is what it is supposed to be for a '78-'81 ish Merc. Where did '84 come from anyway?
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Where did '84 come from anyway?
George Orwell...1984 8)
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Tried to quote the picture of the motor 4 times and gave up....
I don't see external trim rams on the motor. Don't know how they the old trim motor/pump hooked to an internal system?? Didn't put 2 and 10 together until D mentioned it. FAAARRRRRRRLLLLLEEEEEYYYYYYYY????????????
Although some were trim/tilt, some of the old T/T systems from Mercury were tilt-only, no trim. :shock: The only way to adjust trim was to move the trim pin/bolt that set the trim angle. There should be 2 hydraulic lines going from the pump to the cylinders that are up under the clamp brackets. This version only has two cylinders, later ones had three, and some later ones only had one cylinder. There is a release valve knob at the bottom of the hydraulic pump that you can open to allow you to manually move the motor up or down - but remember it's heavy! :!: So to get her down the road, you should be able to open the valve, lift the motor up by hand (get some help), and then reset the tilt pin to the highest hole. Lower the motor down on the tilt pin and it should be high enough off the road to not be a problem.
Do you know the serial number for this motor? I could get you a close guess on what year it is with the serial number, and it's easier when you combine it with the horsepower rating... But it ain't a '90 with that T/T system...
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Never seen that...
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Never seen that...
The "tilt only"? My guess is maybe Mercury could charge extra for T/T versus just tilt. I've not seen one that was tilt only either - the only way I know about them is from some old Mercury manuals that talked about a "tilt-only" system.
I'm with Farley on this being a late 70s or early 80s motor. The first year for the V6 in 150HP was 1978, so '78 is possible - serial number will lock it down - for the powerhead - but it could be a hybrid... :alien:
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I had an old 80's straight 6 115 (with 150 decals - maybe it was "built" ??) on the 170 when I bought it and it had the external trim/tilt pump that sat in the port corner of my boat. The tilt tube froze up and I got rid of the motor - that baby made the boat fly though - an instant "face lift" when you stepped from behind the windshield at WOT. I would guess that I was doing close to 50 with that engine. Kinda miss it. It was thin and powerful. Problem I had was that it took 2 batteries to start it initially - a cold nature'd beast for sure - the black wire would start smoking at the battery as we started her up cold. Once she was started and warmed up it took only one battery to start it.
I don't have any info on the trim and tilt other than I can't remember if it was an actually had a "trim" function or if I just "bumped" it to get what I needed. But I would think that it was a technology maturity - initially you were offered tilt and then they figured out how to slow down the "tilt" into a "trim" and that became an upgrade - later it was expected by consumers so now everything has it 'cept maybe the little motors.
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Tried to quote the picture of the motor 4 times and gave up....
I don't see external trim rams on the motor. Don't know how they the old trim motor/pump hooked to an internal system?? Didn't put 2 and 10 together until D mentioned it. FAAARRRRRRRLLLLLEEEEEYYYYYYYY????????????
Early to bed, early to rise.
Farl will be on this at 5:30 AM like a hair on a biscuit :thumright:
Remember fellows, I thought that this engine may be a hybrid, cause at least she has '78 cowls which gets us back to the big single ram trim piston with a boat mounted hydraulic pump and hydraulic lines running back into the boat to the pump. That system was through '82-'83 I believe. I need the PH number and the midsection number. Not sure why we're seeing wiring coming out from under the pan but my guess is the trim pump got power and up /down harness wiring from the main engine harness. I think everything is what it is supposed to be for a '78-'81 ish Merc. Where did '84 come from anyway?
Totally forgot about the single ram. :oops: The go fasters used to love them. I am trying to forget all those dual float carbs :D Looks like I'm doing a good job of it :lol: :lol: :lol:
Farley, have you ever set the floats using air pressure? Amazing what a difference it made on those engines.
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Remember fellows, I thought that this engine may be a hybrid, cause at least she has '78 cowls which gets us back to the big single ram trim piston with a boat mounted hydraulic pump and hydraulic lines running back into the boat to the pump. That system was through '82-'83 I believe. I need the PH number and the midsection number. Not sure why we're seeing wiring coming out from under the pan but my guess is the trim pump got power and up /down harness wiring from the main engine harness. I think everything is what it is supposed to be for a '78-'81 ish Merc. Where did '84 come from anyway?
Totally forgot about the single ram. :oops: The go fasters used to love them. I am trying to forget all those dual float carbs :D Looks like I'm doing a good job of it :lol: :lol: :lol:
Farley, have you ever set the floats using air pressure? Amazing what a difference it made on those engines.
Loye, never heard of the air pressure method. I've done those carbs and setting the float height can be a pain with a scale but other than that just your average dual chamber carb...
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OK....I fell down on the job and failed to take pics today :oops:
However, I do have things to report to all the kind folks here trying to help.
I got the holes drilled and the tow eye installed. (without sealer) I'll uninstall and seal when home.
Pulled that sweet thing straight by the mechanics place (I think I mentioned he had found a good T/T unit for it)
We pulled covers off and indeed, this is one mixed up motor... old school heads, old school fuel pump, old single cylinder T/T with external pump, newer ignition system, newer lower unit. He felt mount was from freshwater or maybe sat in the garage. No corrosion!
We got the T/T pump swapped and it now works beautifully.
We are replacing the thermostats, popoff, and plugs.
We pulled the lower unit and checked impeller. Indeed, virtually new (seller said he had replaced)
More good news......
Mechanic friend says motor runs very well...and should continue to.
Also he said trailer really was OK....just surface rust on axles. Needs a couple tires replaced, guide poles, safety chains, etc....but overall, serviceable! Might just change bearings to be sure.
He was impressed with how nice the boat was overall.
So, all in all, a good day! Definitely settling for me that my good deal was, in fact, a good deal!
I will ask him about the wires.....I suspect they are indeed (or at least... 'were' :roll: ) connected to the T/T system in this motor's former life.
Anyway, thanks again for all the help....I am sure I will be bugging you with more questions....already have a long list!
I will try to post up some more pics when I do finally get her home. We are going to finish up the motor work and put her in the water tomorrow afternoon. I'll keep my fingers crossed :wink:
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Tom, supposed to be gorgeous tomorrow, so enjoy the day!!! :salut: :salut: :salut:
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Sounds like you have yourself a FrankenMerc! COOL! Thats great news! As Bob said it is going to be a beautiful week!
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For the soft spots (I had the same issue) I would do this:
Bent a thin nail into an "L", put it into your power drill, stick it into the holes, and drill out as much bad wood as you can. Drill a few more exploratory holes in all directions, but mostly towards stern as this is where the water will drip and drain, doing the same process to get out as much bad wood as possible. Suck out as much bad wood with a vacuum as well. Then pour as much 2 part epoxy as possible in there, make sure to swirl it around with a bobby pin or something to break the bubbles and let it soak into the holes all around your floor. Worked like a charm for me.
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CT: thanks, I like the 'L' idea
Well, more progress to report.....
Got the trailer a bit more ready with safety chains and guide poles.
Got the bow eye repair sealed. Decided on 4200 just in case it needed repair down the road. Looks pretty good!
Got the T/T pump bracket back on and bolted in place on mount.
Got the motor squared away with new plugs, , new thermostats, new pop off,. even some wire repair.
Tried to find the marks you folks spoke of...but no luck.
Took some pics...but not sure they will help. Guess it is simply a FrankenMerc and will leave it at that as long as it runs!
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//694/frankenmerc_3.jpg)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//694/frankenmerc_2.jpg)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//694/frankenmerc_1.jpg)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//694/frankenmerc_4.jpg)
Parts got in late so will water test tomorrow AM....so wish me luck! Thanks.
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that trim and tilt bracket looks very similar to the mercury racing brackets. ill see if I can find a pic
edit:
yup, looks identical to the mercury racing brackets
(http://features.boats.com/boat-content/files/2009/11/optimax-jp-3749.jpg)
(http://floridasportfishing.com/magazine/images/stories/features/300hp-motors-a4.jpg)
(http://www.adeveloper.com/promax_300x.jpg)
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll213/1moomba/Shadow%20200RT%20Mod%20VP%20Tunnel/000_0021-6.jpg)
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And here I thought you boys were going to wish me luck!!!!
Guess I should have been more clear......GOOD luck is what I was after, but bad luck is calling my name. :cry:
Motor runs great......unfortunately neither I, nor the mechanic, saw the forest for the trees. Course no one here seems to have caught it either......
It a short shaft motor mounted on a long shaft boat...ARRRGGGHHH :evil:
It ran great and at first we thought it had a spun hub on prop. Swapped the hub....no change. Then it dawns.....cavitating when you hit it because it is short shaft!!!!
Needless to say.....if anyone out there has an extension ( 5" housing, shafts, studs, etc) for a V6 150-200 Merc for a reasonable sum....
PLEASE help me out.
Thanks.....
Tom
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Wow... Right there in the first picture of the stern... Well, we are a bunch of observant old geezers... :oops: :oops: :shock:
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(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//694/91_Aquasport_2.jpg)
Oh yeah, how about that chit. :!: That sucks man. :(
P.S. Good luck.
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Not great, but no biggee.
Here ya go:
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=10985 (http://www.classicaquasport.com/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=10985)
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Don't worry a similar thing happened to me... I bought a Used 200 Merc. I was told it was a 25" shaft... It looked like a long shaft... but it wasn't... turns out the seller was measuring the input shaft length of a lower unit he had.... well that's not how it works! I ended up swapping the center section or "can" and the lower unit straight up for 25" models... Thats I ended up with a FrankenMerc with a 90's powerhead and 2000's can and bracket... and who knows what year lower unit. All I needed was some gaskets and some elbow grease. Also you can get the extension like Scott suggested.... or just sell the motor and get a long shaft model.
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I'll walk you through the details for the shaft extension kit install. Do a compression test on the engine to make sure she is healthy before you drop the $500 for the kit.
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Compression good all cylinders. Motor runs well....just too short!
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Looks like kit #611 from Bay. Was this supposed to be a running rig or did someone just throw this thing together and slap a for sale sign on it? I can tell you the PO had to know this or was just a complete idiot. This thing never ran right obviously.
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As you might imagine, I did 'speak to' the PO.... :wink:
Turns out when he decided to sell the boat, a friend wanted the hyd jack plate that was mounted on it....so he sold the plate and remounted the motor on the transom. When he was telling me it ran well up on plane, he 'forgot' that was BEFORE the remount!
Since T/T motor was not working, no pre-purchase water test was done.
I suspect he had it all the way down and it made enough of a difference.....although I don't see how it could get the full 5" lower.
Would a manual jack plate help? Seems like you would run into tilt/trim problems with motor /plate all the way down if you could not bring it up hydraulically first.
On the 5" extension plan.....if I find a 5" housing, Bay Mfg will sell me the guts......but still runs into serious $$$
If I add the housing, could I use the drive shaft, shift shaft, and water tube from a 25" motor, along with some stainless allthread for studs? How much more involved the repair? As opposed to using the stubs from Bay?
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Water over the dam now....but something smells like a crappie :? .
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I was actually thinking about a jack plate yesterday, they get 6" of travel so you could just mount the jack plate 5" lower to get the motor where you need it and raise it all the way to get the clearance to tilt it up for transport. However, after looking at the pricing for a 6" setback, you need to make the decision:
1) Spend the money on a jackplate, mount it and have a solution, or...
2) Spend the money on the extension kit, see what all breaks (since you don't know how long it has been since it last came apart), and have a solution.
I guess what I'm saying is option 1 leaves you with a true know upfront cost, and option 2, which is the more correct option in my opinion, leaves you with a known upfront cost and unknown back-end costs.
It's only money, right. :roll:
Good luck!
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As you might imagine, I did 'speak to' the PO.... :wink:
Turns out when he decided to sell the boat, a friend wanted the hyd jack plate that was mounted on it....so he sold the plate and remounted the motor on the transom. When he was telling me it ran well up on plane, he 'forgot' that was BEFORE the remount!
Since T/T motor was not working, no pre-purchase water test was done.
I suspect he had it all the way down and it made enough of a difference.....although I don't see how it could get the full 5" lower.
Would a manual jack plate help? Seems like you would run into tilt/trim problems with motor /plate all the way down if you could not bring it up hydraulically first.
On the 5" extension plan.....if I find a 5" housing, Bay Mfg will sell me the guts......but still runs into serious $$$
If I add the housing, could I use the drive shaft, shift shaft, and water tube from a 25" motor, along with some stainless allthread for studs? How much more involved the repair? As opposed to using the stubs from Bay?
A factory 25" engine has a longer driveshaft, water tube and shiftshaft which means you have to find another gearcase in working condition to use according to your plan... So a good used gearcase is $500 plus you have to now buy the extension casting so no gain there. I strongly recommend you buy the entire kit from Bay and avoid alternative cost cutting. These kits and hardware are designed to take the torsional load and stress created by the engine. Could be catastrophic if you have a hardware failure.
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I agree with Farley. Bay makes a quality product, have had zero issues with those he installed on the twin Mercs. The company reports they have never had a unit returned for any reason.
If you ever decide to sell, and the new owner wants to go back to 20 inch....remove the kit, you're back to original.
You COULD install a jackplate as per Carl's scenario #1....but you'd be drilling four new holes in the transom, and at least two of the bolts will be in the bilge. Plus no guarantee she'd tilt completely out of the water....the cowl may engage the transom prematurely. Additionally, its still a 20 inch motor, and in the ocean, coming to a stop etc., you'll be dealing with washover. Higher the better for the powerhead....you can get that accomplished with the Bay product.
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OK..I hear you....go with the extension rather than jack plate.
Here's what I have come up with, so maybe you can clarify a couple things.....
I found someone with 5" extension housing, long drive shaft, long shift shaft, and long water tube for $225.
Is it possible to make this work without a huge amount of additional expense in additional parts/labor???
I realize the Bay Mfg kit would be optimal choice, but if I can 'getrdun' for $500 LESS....well, that would be my Baystar hydraulic steering kit!!
Please share your thoughts......thanks once again!
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The jack plate is only a viable option if you are putting a 25" motor on a 20" transom. So it is not an option in your case.
The extension with the longer lower unit parts may work but you would have to tear into the lower unit to change the drive shaft (basically converting your lower unit from a 20" shaft to a 25"). Fitz is the man to answer that question.
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OK..I hear you....go with the extension rather than jack plate.
Here's what I have come up with, so maybe you can clarify a couple things.....
I found someone with 5" extension housing, long drive shaft, long shift shaft, and long water tube for $225.
Is it possible to make this work without a huge amount of additional expense in additional parts/labor???
I realize the Bay Mfg kit would be optimal choice, but if I can 'getrdun' for $500 LESS....well, that would be my Baystar hydraulic steering kit!!
Please share your thoughts......thanks once again!
Regarding money:
If you or a friend/acquaintance in the marine business have a Federal Tax ID #....you can buy the Bay product at wholesale. Take 30% off the quote.
(http://www.baymfg.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/SAM_0249-1024x768.jpg)
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The jack plate is only a viable option if you are putting a 25" motor on a 20" transom. So it is not an option in your case.
The extension with the longer lower unit parts may work but you would have to tear into the lower unit to change the drive shaft (basically converting your lower unit from a 20" shaft to a 25"). Fitz is the man to answer that question.
Bruce is correct; you have to disassemble your gearcase and replace the driveshaft and shift shaft with the longer components.
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Correction, shift shaft height on the gearcase is the. Same. You have to pull the powerhead and replace the upper shift shaft with the 5" longer version! Buy the Bay kit and SAVE money. I know it sucks to have to deal with this on a boat purchase. If you wanted to pull the boat up here, I'll do the conversion with you for nothing; how's that! You buy the spirits and consumables. Drop ship the kit here so I can paint the extension housing and the rest is easy. Scotty will vouch for me. I do for our members!
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Correction, shift shaft height on the gearcase is the. Same. You have to pull the powerhead and replace the upper shift shaft with the 5" longer version! Buy the Bay kit and SAVE money. I know it sucks to have to deal with this on a boat purchase. If you wanted to pull the boat up here, I'll do the conversion with you for nothing; how's that! You buy the spirits and consumables. Drop ship the kit here so I can paint the extension housing and the rest is easy. Scotty will vouch for me. I do for our members!
You da man, Fitz! :cheers:
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Fitz, that is truly an amazing offer....Hardly know what to say except I certainly thank you for it :cheers: If I was closer I would be knocking on your door with cold beverages in hand!
I will talk to Chuck when he gets back from the Florida Flywheelers show. I am sure he has Fed tax ID and would help me out. At this point I have to say it makes the most sense to go the Bay Mfg route and just move on.
Tried to be productive and get out of the motor funk by scrubbing the boat. Really came clean. Even 'detailed' the 'rope' insert in the rub rail.
A little wax tomorrow and it will look like a new boat! Happy, happy, happy. :D
What do you guys recommend for bringing back the teak??
How about a few spider stress cracks...is there something that can fill them and hold up?
All in all......even in the face of the motor snafu....I am really excited about this whole project. I feel it will turn out to be a GREAT boat at reasonable cost.
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Correction, shift shaft height on the gearcase is the. Same. You have to pull the powerhead and replace the upper shift shaft with the 5" longer version! Buy the Bay kit and SAVE money. I know it sucks to have to deal with this on a boat purchase. If you wanted to pull the boat up here, I'll do the conversion with you for nothing; how's that! You buy the spirits and consumables. Drop ship the kit here so I can paint the extension housing and the rest is easy. Scotty will vouch for me. I do for our members!
I am proud to vouch for Farley! He did a better and more careful job than a professional. NEVER did he resort to a BFH to beat on the lower unit, which is the course even "professionals" use to stay on the shop schedule.
Not only will you get a superlative job...he's a great guy to hang with! :thumright:
How far are you from Daytona? I'm 11 hours away :mrgreen: and would not hesitate to pull down there again tonight :salut:
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Correction, shift shaft height on the gearcase is the. Same. You have to pull the powerhead and replace the upper shift shaft with the 5" longer version! Buy the Bay kit and SAVE money. I know it sucks to have to deal with this on a boat purchase. If you wanted to pull the boat up here, I'll do the conversion with you for nothing; how's that! You buy the spirits and consumables. Drop ship the kit here so I can paint the extension housing and the rest is easy. Scotty will vouch for me. I do for our members!
I am proud to vouch for Farley! He did a better and more careful job than a professional. NEVER did he resort to a BFH to beat on the lower unit, which is the course even "professionals" use to stay on the shop schedule.
Not only will you get a superlative job...he's a great guy to hang with! :thumright:
How far are you from Daytona? I'm 11 hours away :mrgreen: and would not hesitate to pull down there again tonight :salut:
Evidently, Farley is not familiar with Mercury's service manuals and special tools catalog... Mercury Special tool 99-00001 BFH
LMAO !!! J/K Farley
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:lol: :lol: :lol: .....have to confess I have subscribed to the 'it needs a bigger knockometer' school of thought on more than one occasion. Especially working on old farm equipment. 8)
However, the plus side of this FrankenMerc, especially what seems to be a formerly freshwater one, is the BFH is not required. We had the lower unit pulled.... without issue..... to check the impeller (new, btw!) ....so hopefully this kit should go on fairly well.
Fitz....any special pointers I should be aware of??
Thanks again.
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I'm glad you are deciding to convert it to a 25".
I was was just throwing out ideas, but that is the way to go. Good deal on it being a freshwater motor too! :thumleft:
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Farley's da man! - Great offer for help - and isn't that what this site is all about? :salut:
Just for grins - what bore diameter does it say on the heads? The 150 was made in 2.0 liter and 2.4 liter versions - I would guess yours is a 2.0 liter model, but the bore diameter will tell the full story. Each head has the bore diameter on it - it should be 3.125 for a 2.0 liter or 3.375 for a 2.4... :thumleft:
Sounds like you have good news so far! Good luck and keep posting pics as you move along. :wink:
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:lol: :lol: :lol: .....have to confess I have subscribed to the 'it needs a bigger knockometer' school of thought on more than one occasion. Especially working on old farm equipment. 8)
However, the plus side of this FrankenMerc, especially what seems to be a formerly freshwater one, is the BFH is not required. We had the lower unit pulled.... without issue..... to check the impeller (new, btw!) ....so hopefully this kit should go on fairly well.
Fitz....any special pointers I should be aware of??
Thanks again.
Glad you're pulling the pin on the extension kit... Now for some details. The extension housing will need some prep before installation. The casting is fairly rough so a good 220 wet sand and take a mild file and radius all of the sharp edges around the mating surfaces so you will get good paint adhesion. Paint will chip and flake off of a sharp corner. Then prime with zinc cromate and paint with phantom black. I like for the housing to sit for at least a week before install so the paint has time to throughly cure. Do the fingernail test after about day 5. When you cant mark the paint with your fingernail; its kicked and you're good to go. Now it looks like the #611 kit covers a broad range of apps and during those years Mercury made the switch to metric bolts so you need to know what you have. If your engine is an early model as we suspect she probably has SAE threads for 3/8-16 (0.375") later models were M10X1.5 (0.393") so that is critical to know to make sure they ship you the right stud kit. Being a FrankenMerc, the midsection serial number may not be good enough to verify so take out a lower unit bolt and measure the bolt to see what it really is. Once you establish the thread the next thing to do is get threaded holes spotlessly clean. I use brake cleaner and run the correct tap in and out of the hole until you can screw the tap into the hole with your fingers only without the aid of a tap handle. You will be loctite-ing the new studs into place (blue #271) and they stress that the studs must screw in easily until they bottom out. Also make sure the stock dowel pins that align the current halves together are not too long for the new extension housing. The kit will come with shorter pins if you need them. The pins are loctited in place from the factory so just heat the housing with a little mapp gas torch to melt the loctite and they will come right out the some vicegrips. When you get ready to install this kit I will walk you through the steps needed to do the shift shaft extension. I'll warn you now; the instructions that come with this kit were written, illustrated and edited by a 5th or 6th grader so I'll share what we learned as we progess in the project.
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Wow......great info!
Definitely major help in getting this done RIGHT.
Waiting on fella to return Monday so I can get him to place order and hopefully save some $$$$$.
Will let you know when kit arrives.
Occupied myself yesterday cleaning up boat, refinishing teak, getting new lights on trailer, etc, etc.
Will post some pics later, but captain says we need to go get groceries!
Thanks again....your kind assistance is surely appreciated :thumright:
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OK.....here are some pics of progress.....
Cleaned up quite well. Realized the hull had been painted after I got a layer of dirt off it.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/20140221_175719.jpg)
Pretty pleased with how the teak came back to life.....also notice the lack of the funky light bar 8)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/20140221_175352.jpg)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/20140221_175827.jpg)
Got dark before I took any pics of the trailer work today. Scraped and wire brushed axles ...then applied Rust Converter.
I'll pull off the motor covers tomorrow and check the head markings.
As an aside.....wonder if anyone has one or knows of a source for the black switch cover on the console...
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/20140221_175337.jpg)
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Toggle switch covers
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss? ... er+and+Nut (http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=+Rubber+Toggle+Switch+Cover+and+Nut&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3A+Rubber+Toggle+Switch+Cover+and+Nut)
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Hey Rick,
Actually, what I meant was the original black plate with all the white lettering that the switches mount in.
Somehow have a suspicion that it might be impossible to find....... :scratch:
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Bruce's (wingtime) buddy could make you one but I doubt it would have the cute little boat diagram...
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Hey Rick,
Actually, what I meant was the original black plate with all the white lettering that the switches mount in.
Somehow have a suspicion that it might be impossible to find....... :scratch:
Use a Scotchbrite pad and scrub it down well. Then spray it with ArmorAll and give it another good scrub. Often they will come back (almost) as good as new! :thumleft:
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Fitz: I tried to locate the numbers you mentioned that would help ID this motor.....but no luck (?)
The only numbers I could see on the heads were 1026 5189 and 73280
Found a number on midsection: 1579-6606
Serial # on mount : 6474916
Numbers on carbs: 1382-6425 and 157-155
Not sure if the head numbers you mentioned would be visible if installed. Where should I be looking?
Any of this make sense or help with ID?
I would love to know what this was .....year, HP ....in order to get appropriate service manual and parts manual.
Thanks!!!
Tom
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Fitz: I tried to locate the numbers you mentioned that would help ID this motor.....but no luck (?)
The only numbers I could see on the heads were 1026 5189 and 73280
Found a number on midsection: 1579-6606
Serial # on mount : 6474916
Numbers on carbs: 1382-6425 and 157-155
Thanks!!!
Tom
6474916 is a good Serial Number, and fits an early 1984 150HP V6 with a 2.0 liter block. The 1984 year for the 150 V-6 started with 6443213 and ended with 6616990. So your motor should be early in the 1984 model year based on this number, and this is the number you need when ordering parts - Mercury goes by S/N, not model/year.
Hope this helps - good luck! :thumleft:
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GF: hmmm.....when I put that serial number into the Mercury website it brought up Service Literature for a 200 V6 ELPTO :scratch:
Yet I saw on another site that Merc used serial numbers for various years and HP.....hence my confusion!
That's why I was hoping some of the other numbers would help sort this out.
What I did find on Mercury Racing is the 1382-6425 carbs had a 1.0 Venturi and 'legal in COR'. But no reference if they would be on 150 or 200.
Also found this...."The number 1382-6425 is an outdated number for a WH-38 carb. The latest p/n appears to be 1382-7563A13/14 and 15. Therefore your carbs should have some kind of stamping (usually top front or mounting flange of the carb) which shows WH-38-1, WH-38-2 and WH-38-3.
Here is a chart for V6 engines and you will see that the -38 is used on V135 1986 thru 1990 and V150, 1978 thru 1990. These can be Mariner as well as Mercury:"
So......guess it leans me toward the 150HP........
Who'd a thunk this would be so tough??????
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GF: hmmm.....when I put that serial number into the Mercury website it brought up Service Literature for a 200 V6 ELPTO :scratch:
Yet I saw on another site that Merc used serial numbers for various years and HP.....hence my confusion!
That's why I was hoping some of the other numbers would help sort this out.
What I did find on Mercury Racing is the 1382-6425 carbs had a 1.0 Venturi and 'legal in COR'. But no reference if they would be on 150 or 200.
Also found this...."The number 1382-6425 is an outdated number for a WH-38 carb. The latest p/n appears to be 1382-7563A13/14 and 15. Therefore your carbs should have some kind of stamping (usually top front or mounting flange of the carb) which shows WH-38-1, WH-38-2 and WH-38-3.
Here is a chart for V6 engines and you will see that the -38 is used on V135 1986 thru 1990 and V150, 1978 thru 1990. These can be Mariner as well as Mercury:"
So......guess it leans me toward the 150HP........
Who'd a thunk this would be so tough??????
I agree with John's findings; I have two different sites I use for serial number cross reference and that number comes up as a 1984 150HP. The good news is that service parts interchange between all models so it really doesn't matter what it is. There is no doubt she is pieced together from several years...
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Great....150HP it is!
I was hoping it was not 200.....I believe the boat max HP is 185....not to mention the 150 is likely thirsty enough!
I will order a $5 service manual download and move on.
Thanks fellas. :cheers:
Hope to get the extension kit on the way today. Fitz, I am sure I will be touching base with you .....
Then tackle electrical (suspect gauges could use replacing), cosmetics (repair spider cracks then top paint and bottom paint), etc.
Heheh....seems I can turn what what supposed to be a 'run around now' boat into a project. Oh well......I do love a project! :D
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Hope to get the extension kit on the way today. Fitz, I am sure I will be touching base with you .....
Did you determine which bolt size you have? SAE or Metric?
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Hey Fitz..
The nuts that hold lower unit to mid take 5/8" ....so I figure SAE
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Well...Bay Mfg. extension kit did not arrive today as planned :(
Got lower unit off and waiting impatiently......
Did get the Baystar hydraulic steering installed. Quite amazing how nice that made the steering...Sweet! :)
Still much to go.....will update as progress is made.
Thanks again for the guidance...
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Way to go AM on getting help and getting info on sorting this out. After all is said and done...looks like your gonna have a great boat. This is an unbelievable site with members who have a great spirit. BTW is that boat gonna go in the shed or under canvas?
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If it weren't for bad luck.......
Well, I thought I was going to have good news to report. Got the kit finally...got the extension prepped and painted.....old studs removed...holes retapped and cleaned ....new studs in....shaft stubs and water line in....ready to install 'newly extended' lower unit..
when lo and behold.......
the female part of the drive shaft stub won't pass through the midsection!!!!! The splined female stub end is 1 1/8 OD....obviously much bigger than the original male drive shaft it slips over. ARGGGHHHH!!!!! :cry:
Looked like the only way to skin the cat at that point was to remove the drive shaft stub and then install the lower unit. Tomorrow remove the powerhead, put the drive shaft stub into the power head drive shaft end (with some JB weld to prevent stub from falling down the next time the lower unit is removed for water pump work)....then install power head back onto midsection.
What a bite :x
Guess I would have been better off just swapping a 25" lower unit. That's how my life seems to go.........
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If it weren't for bad luck.......
Well, I thought I was going to have good news to report. Got the kit finally...got the extension prepped and painted.....old studs removed...holes retapped and cleaned ....new studs in....shaft stubs and water line in....ready to install 'newly extended' lower unit..
when lo and behold.......
the female part of the drive shaft stub won't pass through the midsection!!!!! The splined female stub end is 1 1/8 OD....obviously much bigger than the original male drive shaft it slips over. ARGGGHHHH!!!!! :cry:
Looked like the only way to skin the cat at that point was to remove the drive shaft stub and then install the lower unit. Tomorrow remove the powerhead, put the drive shaft stub into the power head drive shaft end (with some JB weld to prevent stub from falling down the next time the lower unit is removed for water pump work)....then install power head back onto midsection.
What a bite :x
Guess I would have been better off just swapping a 25" lower unit. That's how my life seems to go.........
DO NOT JB weld the stub into the crank! If you ever have to replace the lower crankshaft seal you're SOL. Pull the powerhead and physically measure the amount of interference and where between the housing and shaft stub and open up the housing either by grinding or have it bored at a machine shop. This is not a big deal just a hurtle. The amount of interference may be minimal.
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Roger that, Fitz.
Thought I would have it squared away today......but when I pulled power head, I found there was a narrow hole at top of midsection as well! Pulled out the air grinder and created a bit more space for the stub shaft to slip through. Waiting on a gasket and should have power head back in place tomorrow.
What do you think of the idea of using a dab of RTV on end of stub to at least somewhat hold it in place in power head if the lower unit ever needs pulling??? I hear you on the epoxy idea......
Sure seems to have quickly turned from 'throwing this boat in the water and go' ....to an apprenticeship in old Merc motors!!!! Gotta love it.
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AM-
You want the driveshaft extension from Bay Mfg. to act as if it's part of the driveshaft, not the crankshaft. Presuming your grinder work created adequate clearance in the mid-housing for the new oversized female end of the extension (and left no sharp lips in the tube for the driveshaft or extension to hang on during installation or removal), just put them (the driveshaft and new extension) together with moly lube like the manuals recommend (i.e. lube ONLY the male splines - NO lube on the top end of the shaft) and allow it to drop out with the drive shaft next time the lower unit is removed. If for some reason it doesn't come out with the drive shaft and grease, friction, or something similar is holding it in the crank, then you can lower the engine and tickle it out using gravity and a long screwdriver or similar apparatus. Then, when you're done with your L.U. project you can clean and reassemble it on the end of the driveshaft, re-insert through the mid-housing back into bottom of the crankshaft as if it were one unit and re-bolt the lower unit the normal way.
You're getting so close to having this thing modified and put together PROPERLY, so don't rush it or compromise the project this late in the game. :thumright:
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Ryan: 'properly' is debatable. :wink:
I only ground the top narrow hole, not the bottom....top was much easier to access than the bottom (once power head and exhaust tuner removed). So......the stub will drop down onto top of original drive shaft with lower unit installed, but will not come out with shaft if lower unit is removed. I suppose it could be manipulated somehow, as the drive shaft was inserted, to slip back onto shaft, but felt that might be pretty tough. That's why I was pondering 'gently' attaching male end of stub to crank. Hopefully keeping it attached if LU needed to be removed, yet be able to remove stub from crank if required.
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When we were fitting up Scotty's lowers we had the gearcases on and off a couple of times as we discovered the proper assembly sequence for having everything line up; mainly the timing/alignment assembly for the shift shaft and water tube extensions. Trying to assertain if it was better to have the extension housing on the gearcase side held in place with the dowel pins or to have extension on the midsection, hanging on the studs; the biggest challenge was enough room to get your hand in there with a flashlight to get the water tube lined up but the point is we had the extension stay up in the crank and sometimes it would come out with the gearcase lower driveshaft but we didn't have a clearance issue. I guess what I would do first is install the extension stub in the crank held in with grease and see if you can lower the powerhead in (without the new gasket) and see if it will mate up to the mid in normal fashion and make sure you have the clearance you need for assembly. Next, if you can, look up inside the mid and see how much the stub could drop before hitting the next interference and if the stub were to drop would there still be engagement in the crankshaft splines to keep it from falling out and rolling off to the side causing a reassembly issue. Unless you completely clear away the lower interference, I would be inclined to use the RTV method to hold it in place. Of course, if you can't successfully lower the powerhead and stub into the mid with hitting something; you have more grinding to do anyway and all this is moot. How much material did you have to remove from the upper in order to get the stub to clear?
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Fitz:
Did not have to grind a huge amount.....I'd guesstimate 1/16" around......although chose to move center of 'new' hole ever so slightly forward of center of orig hole in order to not weaken a threaded hole in casting (for an exhaust tuner bolt). Diameter of new hole just allowed female end of stub to slip through and easily engaged top of the original driveshaft. I suppose I could have ground lower interference as well....but was hoping there would be NO grinding if we removed the PH .....so when top hole was too small as well...only it got enlarged. Might consider removing LU (again :( ) and grinding bottom interference......but awfully tempting to just put a dab of RTV on top of stub and set PH down.
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HAPPY DAY!!!!! :D
Looks like all the work has paid off. Water tested today......success. That old Frankenmerc pushed the 200 Striper amazingly well. WOWZA!!!
Everything checked out and brought her home to clean up. Got second bilge pump (RuleMate 750) installed. Got second battery installed. Will seal hatches and get ready to bottom paint this coming week. Might go crazy and top paint.....not to mention the name decal I have been designing. :wink: Then try to fix various gel coat stress cracks I have spotted.
Excited that this boat is at least able to be back on the water!
Sure do appreciate all the help so far. I am sure to be asking more questions as I stumble up the Aquasport learning curve.
Thanks!!
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Good job Tom!
Post a pic of your work; I'm glad everything worked out OK.
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It's always a good day to get your boat back out on the water. :thumright:
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Hey folks,
Got the hatches resealed and a few other details squared away Sunday.
Launched for maiden voyage Monday (not counting water test)........
Let's say it was 'eventful' :D
Here is a pic of her sitting pretty at the dock.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//694/image144.jpg)[/url]
Looking at this pic I am noting how she sat in the water.....edge of bottom paint seemed well above waterline and 'even' . No list either. Seems to confirm my feeling inside of hull was nice and dry. Pretty pleased!!!!
As to the 'events'....
Everything had been performing beautifully.....motor ran well, new extension did the trick, steering and handling was grand.....great day on the water........
UNTIL......what's this??????? NO STEERING :shock:
As you may recall, a brand new Baystar hydraulic steering kit had been installed. Apparently the compression fittings decided to turn loose and dump fluid behind my back!
Limped it along trying to make it home. Was kindly offered a tow and ended up near the dock where I had to swim ashore then pull her in to tie up.
Fortunately had fluid, filler tube, and wrench at the house.......so repairs were easily accomplished. Made it back to boat launch, on the trailer, and back in the yard without further ado.
Sure made for a memory we can laugh about now.....but I can assure you we were not laughing at the time. :wink:
All in all, it is now officially a functioning boat. Want to thank all the kind folks here who helped me get this far. Still have lots more questions.....so hopefully I won't wear out my welcome. 8)
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At least it was obvious what the problem was and the best part was it was possible to swim! :thumleft: Glad all worked out well in the end!
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Farley had asked for a pic of the work.....better late than never, so here is one....
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/image154.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9291&title=image154&cat=500)
The extension sure brought the prop down to where it needed to be. Nothing that a few inches won't help :wink:
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Hey 5" for $500, where do I sign up! Good job brother...
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Well, since I am now 'reunited' with my boat after returning to Flarda from the NC farm.......I am back at trying to do right by her.
Figured I would just take up where I left off in this thread rather than starting a new one.
Good news!!....I used the CPES (phase 1) and the L&L (phase 2) from RotDoctor to fix the soft spot in the deck where PO had left three screw holes open. Worked beautifully! Very happy with the repair.
And more good news !!!!
I had thought the hull had been painted because I could see the 'shadow' of the colored stripes ...."under" the white paint.
Well....turns out after someone that actually knows his stuff looked at it.....it is gelcoat, not paint!
He said someone removed the stripe decals and the gelcoat underneath is effectively 'newer' than the exposed area and will look different. Sure fooled me!
So, with some wet sanding with 2000 grit and then buffing/waxing......this boat ought to look great! Still intend to bottom paint with black. Also have new boat name logo designed for the sides. Should look SHARP!
Spent today pondering wiring issues. Mounted a horn and new VHF radio.....just not wired in. Might need to try to sort out some of the existing spaghetti before I add to the confusion. Had seen a wiring pic from Seabob ...actually a 'before and after' set that was impressive....but now I can't find it. It sure was something to strive for!
Also on the 'to do' list is installing new chartplotter/depthfinder.....so I will be tangled up with wiring (pun intended) for a bit.
Want to thank everyone again for all the help so far......this is indeed one great Aquasport family!
So, with that......a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to the family!!!!!
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Welcome back :cheers: Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you and yours too :santa: :rendeer:
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Can you tell me what the difference is between the striper and osprey model of this boat is? I just bought a 90 model 200 and it looks just like yours pretty much, the door is gone off the console so i don't know if was teak. it has a plastic set of drawers on the port side of the console and some type of plastic boards on the rail aft. I'm already looking for some wood to replace those with.
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Look in this sales book on pages 3,4 and 7,8.
http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showgallery.php?cat=764
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The Striper was just an options package. The hull etc are otherwise the same. Basically included a set of tackle drawers on the side of the console, some rod holders and a few other whistles and bells. Basically a marketing ploy.
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Can you tell me what the difference is between the striper and osprey model of this boat is? I just bought a 90 model 200 and it looks just like yours pretty much, the door is gone off the console so i don't know if was teak. it has a plastic set of drawers on the port side of the console and some type of plastic boards on the rail aft. I'm already looking for some wood to replace those with.
Just make sure you have the Striper model and not the Stripper model. :shock: The Striper is a accessory package that cost a little more; the Stripper is a package of accessories that will cost you a LOT more. ( . )( . )
:1rij: