Classic AquaSport
Aquasport Model Rebuilds, Mods, Updates and Refreshes => Osprey Style Hull Rebuilds => 165/170/175 Rebuilds => Topic started by: Redfish Ron on August 22, 2013, 10:02:47 AM
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Well, I got my little jewel home and have to say she is a "project" that I am sort of dreading and excited about at the same time. I haven't done this in nearly thirty years and a lot has changed over those decades. My last project boat was a 24 foot Stamas Clearwater- that was a real hard job- replaced just about everything inside the hull- wiring, floors, inboard/outboard, new fuel tank, hoses, controls, electronics...but when it was finished it was beautiful and worked great- kept that boat ten years and sold it for twice what I paid for it- I am hoping for equally successful results from the 170...floors are a have to replacement- and i won't know anything about the stringers until the floor is cut out- I am missing the top center hatch cover to the forward center well in the casting deck so I will either have to build that or find one for sale some where. The railing is old and the fittings are corroded- thinking about taking it off completely and not have a rail, but I haven't got that all reasoned out yet-been reading and researching all the threads about rebuilds of 170 and 175's- Rick's looked awesome and an awful lot of work- hopefully I won't have as extensive a project as he had- My transom is perfect- so I won't have any issues with that. Hopefully all I will have is a new floor job and that will get me to the "promised land." A 1974 boat probably needs a new fuel tank- is there someplace that has them pre-built that you can order from or is it "find your own" fabricator to weld up a 27 gallon aluminum tank in your local area? I have looked at the suppliers here on the forum and the necessary supplies for refurbishing the floor, but I don't know how much materials (and exactly which types of cloth), epoxy, hardeners, putty etc. that I need for a floor restoration of a 17 CC. Is there a listing of materials anywhere or do I just blunder along and learn as I go? I think I probably will need two full sheets of 1/2 inch marine plywood for the floor base and a gallon of epoxy and a half gallon of hardener- I am an inside machinist, so I am mechanically inclined; just getting old. When I did my Stamas it was a bigger boat and I used two layers of biaxial glass cloth on top and just epoxy on the bottom of the 3/4 inch marine plywood for its floors. When the floor was complete, I rolled on a non-skid paint that looked pretty darn good and was tough as nails. Question- Do I really need two layers of glass cloth on top of the 1/2 inch marine plywood for my 170 or is this a good idea? What am I missing that I should ask? Ignorance is bliss-
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Welcome aboard :salut: To get you a few short answers to some of your ? Fuel tank, once your floor is out and you know what shape the stringers are in, you can go about getting a new tank to fit between the stringers, search online(ebay, greatlakesskipper) places like that who have a ton of off size poly tanks.I know great lakes skipper has a couple hundred listed on their site..you can have one fabbed up,just need to decide alum. or poly..As far as the floor goes 1/2 might be a little thin...most people on here if using wood go 3/4 and put 1 light layer of glass on the bottom(6oz) and then 2 layers on top say 1708 then covered with 6oz, then prime and put the topping of your choice.
You can get your cloth at many places, boatbuilder central, us composites and places like that.Most comes in 52" wide rolls cut to the lenght you need, I think I bought about 10 yards of 6oz when doing mine..still have a little left to make a T-Top cover this winter.. Google is your friend when looking :thumright: As far as amounts go , I would start out with a 3 gal epoxy kit if you go with epoxy(2 gal resin, 1 hardener) get the hardener to match your weather conditions, slow if it's hot out, med. if it's not to bad, fast if it's cooler, medium will give you more working time.. the cloth will soak up some resin..While the floor is out drill a 1 inch hole in the side of your stringers to check the foam for moisture.. if it's wet cut the tops off the stringers ,remove the wet foam and reglass the tops and pour new foam..
You will probably need some flairing compound for the finish, and you can't really gelcoat over epoxy..
Post up some pics and the guys on here will get you thru your rebuild just like they helped me on mine last year..
And there will always be more questions :lol: As far as the # of sheets of plywood for the floor, if using 3 sheets means only having 2 seems in the floor, I would that rather that,then have the extra seem. but thats just me, my 19-6 used 3 sheets, 2 seems, not counting the seem around the edge to the liner..
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I never considered the number of seams needed to be sealed and taped- I will add another sheet of plywood to my list- you used 6 oz cloth and I see a lot of folks use the 1708 biaxial cloth- since I am going with 1/2 inch plywood, would you recommend me using the heavier cloth and laminating both top and bottom with two layers of cloth? I got out my tape measure yesterday and measured the interior flooring I would be replacing- 50 inches wide at the bow casting deck, 62 inches wide at the beam and 12 feet in overall length- I had planned to re-use my center console- doesn't look like anything is wrong or it is not serviceable- so first thing is pulling it out of the boat- did you use a hoist or what techniques did you use to remove the console and then lift out the flooring? I plan to re-use the wiring/cable trough. How is the flooring anchored? Screws are anchoring the console, but what holds the floor? I saw that some made a gantry system for removing the engine, etc. Since my engine is already removed, what system do you recommend I use? I have a air chisel and an air compressor as well as roto zip, saws-all, 7 1/4 circular saws, etc. so ripping the floor isn't going to be a problem...what I need is to understand what exactly to cut and what not to cut and where. The old carpenter's adage comes into play...measure twice and cut once...
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This is a good thread to read. Photos are linked and you can get a good idea of what you'll run into when you demo. Older Aquas differ at times in composition and stringer design but this is a great place to start. Fletch did this himself and it was a learning process (OJT) and as such a great rebuild thread for those first time Aquasport DIY members.
This is a current rebuild by our Fearless Leader but he had redone the deck before so it may be slightly different than what you may find. It is full of ideas you can use and is very detailed. A good read for any re-builder.
http://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=10101.0
There are many, many others in this forum that you would do well to explore.<!-- s:idea: -->:idea:<!-- s:idea: -->
Many different methods of cat skinnin' and a huge amount of "idea" material beyond just glass. Your rebuild, with documentation, will become another notch in this forum's gun for anyone wanting to undertake the task or just provide insight into what one should expect from a good professional re-builder.
Good luck. <!-- s:thumleft: -->:thumleft:<!-- s:thumleft: -->
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I think I would start by cutting just through the thickness of the sole leaving a 2" ledge around the perimeter of the inside and in front of the casting deck. Then check your stringers - I think you may have foam in the outboard side of the stringers. If the stringers look good you can drill an exploratory hole, as mentioned, through the side of each and see if there is any water in the foam. If there is then you have some decisions to make.
If the stringers are good and stuck to the hull well, you could plan on laying a new sole on top of the ledge and build up the top of the stringers to support it. I did that 14 years ago and it lasted until now.
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Rick- I was so impressed with your rebuild...gave me the confidence to jump in on mine- my boat is three years younger but the exact same model, so what you found under the floor should be pretty close to what the construction of my boat is- doubt if Aquasport did much different three years later-I am holding off tearing into the boat until I get a good idea of the supplies, tools, shelter over the boat, etc. I need to protect my work and not further damage the boat-it is getting later in the year and here in the middle atlantic coast the weather will change pretty quickly. I have been getting my stuff together ever since I brought the boat home last week- I ordered a 5 inch air sander last nite and a new chainfall- my old chainfall is broken...I was impressed with your gantry you built and am thinking of building one pretty much like yours- my transom is fine so that is one less thing to do- I am considering having a commercial metal carport erected (I live outside the city on 2.5 acres of land so I have room for a lot of things) so I can keep my boat under it full time- I measured my boat to make sure the carport would completely cover it- Q- why is it called a 170? According to my tape it is 17'6" overall length and 82 inches at the beam.
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I agree with Rick on the floor cutting, I used a 7 1/2" circlular saw and set the blade depth to just barely cut thru the floor. If you start out on the starboard stearn corner it leaves a nice 2 inch lip to reglass the floor to :thumright: On removing the console, once everything is out of it, steering,gauges,controls etc, you can actually pic it up by yourself..I just slid mine to the rear and hefted it up over the transom and stuck it in the building until it was time to work on it. :salut: If you are set on reusing the trough, just cut it out after making the starboard side cut, leaving some lip on it for reglassing..once all the cuts are made on all four sides the fun starts..Can't remember if the 170 has a tank coffin or not, if it does remove the tank then proceed, if not with everything else out of the boat, pick a spot to star prying up on the floor..it will be held down with some funky factory concrete looking mud that is pretty tough..if you have any decent sized pie plate holes, remove the pie plate and try to get a prybar in there to pry the floor up.If no pie holes, you can cut one or two with a jigsaw just be sure to not hit anything important.I think it took me about 2 hours to pry mine loose, then cut it in managable sizes to remove it :thumright: The floor from the factory is glassed in place and set on the stringers with the mud from hell. no screws to hold down the floor. The only time I used a lift or anything to remove or replace something was using a engine hoist to pull and set the engine all other work was done the old fashioned way, pure determination to do it :lol: Your floor may split apart at the lamination to the wood under it, thats not a bad thing, means more pieces to handle but they will weight less per piece. The air chisel will help with getting the mud/glue to release it's deathgrip on the floor if you can get the bits under the edge and let it eat :lol:
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Rick- I was so impressed with your rebuild...gave me the confidence to jump in on mine- my boat is three years younger but the exact same model, so what you found under the floor should be pretty close to what the construction of my boat is- doubt if Aquasport did much different three years later-I am holding off tearing into the boat until I get a good idea of the supplies, tools, shelter over the boat, etc. I need to protect my work and not further damage the boat-it is getting later in the year and here in the middle atlantic coast the weather will change pretty quickly. I have been getting my stuff together ever since I brought the boat home last week- I ordered a 5 inch air sander last nite and a new chainfall- my old chainfall is broken...I was impressed with your gantry you built and am thinking of building one pretty much like yours- my transom is fine so that is one less thing to do- I am considering having a commercial metal carport erected (I live outside the city on 2.5 acres of land so I have room for a lot of things) so I can keep my boat under it full time- I measured my boat to make sure the carport would completely cover it- Q- why is it called a 170? According to my tape it is 17'6" overall length and 82 inches at the beam.
Thanks bud but I'm only about 1/3 done :lol:
Is your tank under the sole? Mine was inside the console - maybe by '74 they had dropped them below deck? I'm installing a new tank under the sole, so a big change for my boat.
Never taped mine except for the beam - 6'10", which matches yours. Not a great boat for a tower, eh? Can you say "tippy"? :lol:
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Yes, Rick- my 1974 model has the fuel tank under the floor and the fuel fill is outside on the right side deck just forward of the built in optional rod holders- the fuel vent is right there on the hull, as well- nothing inside the boat- everything is out of the cockpit-
I have been getting all my ducks in a row to begin my project- I needed a protected place to do this so I am building a covered metal out building- It is a pre-fabed large carport type of building- a 20X21- I had to get the land level so it could be installed- 14 tons of crush and run gravel delivered, then spread and level the gravel- whew! lots of manual labor involved-the building will be a dual use building for storing my boat and car out of the weather when I am done with the re-build, so the investment isn't just to re-build my 170-
I ordered three sheets of marine plywood, bought a 1998 Yahama 75 hp 3 cylinder fresh water motor in excellent running condition with 15 pitch, three-blade stainless prop- only drawback is it has side controls instead of a binnacle control- Got all my tools I will need- saws, grinders, roto-zip, half ton chain-fall- wrecking bar, air chisels, air compressor- I don't have any reservations about the work on re-build- all my doubts on my abilities are on the re-install of controls, electrical wiring, install and setup for the motor, and the fuel tank and bilge pump wiring- that is where I had to get help the last time I did this-
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Took another step in my refurbishing project today- I ordered my supplies from U.S. Composites- I took the advice from this forum and am starting with the three gallon resin kit, 10 yards of 1208 glass with mat, 10 yards of 6 oz. glass cloth and one 50 yard roll of 6 oz tape- a 1/2 inch by 4 inch roller and a corner roller- got to get some close foam 4 inch rollers, and mixing cups, tyveck coveralls and some dust masks- all that is available at local big box hardware stores...no need to order and pay shipping charges- My 3 sheets of marine plywood has been stored in my workshop for the last few weeks- waiting on the metal building to get delivered before I start ripping out the sole-
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I decided that a 20X21 building was too small for what I needed so I opted for a 21X24 foot with 8 foot side walls (enclosed on three sides) metal building- that decision caused me to have to level up more of the area for the foundation and do a lot more grunt foundation preparation (like a 24 ton dump truck load of crush and run) but- it is finally up and finished. The boat is under cover, out of the weather and ready for me to begin work- our Atlantic Coast weather has cooled down considerably so it looks like the floor lamination is going to be a spring time project- that said nothing is stopping me from starting the rip out of the old floors and doing all the removals of controls, etc. to get the console out of the boat- I'll post pictures as I go-
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It is way too cold to work on any type of fiberglassing work, but I have a lot of other things I need to be doing to get the sole replaced- I have been scouring all the INTETNET sites on replacing floors (sole) in boats and have seen a lot of really jury rigged repairs and some that are really beyond the average skill set- One thought on stringers- why don't you see block foam used as a form for stringers? I mean we use open figerglass stringers then pour two part expanding foam into them- seems like an extra step to someone as lazy as I am...why not cut block foam into the exact sizes and shapes needed for the stringer to start with, then cover that foam core with multiple layers of wetted 1708 and tab it in? Seems like you would eliminate the need to cleanup the overflows and repairs to the pour holes in stringers afterwards and have a more uniform, consistent high quality foam that you wouldn't have to worry about becoming waterlogged in the future. Also it seem that the original 170's had three stringers running fore and aft while later models with the fuel tanks under the sole had two stringers with cross bracing- is this observation correct or has these with two stringers models that have been rebuilt once before? I also notice that most folks are using PVC pipe as routing for rigging, controls, wiring. Why not make a trough just like the ones from the factory, only put it under the sole instead of above and part of the sole and have it exit at the starboard rear with rubber enclosing the exit to waterproof? Or is the reason is that it is just a whole lot easier and less work to use the pipe? How durable do you think the pipe will be? And if using the PVC Pipe what grade is best? Schedule 40, etc.
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Ron, absolutely, you can use foam to build the stingers. Called Chris at Seamark...he mentioned this is how the Onslow Bay stringer system is constructed.
They use a closed cell, high density 1.5 inch foam plank. It is then heavily glassed. He thinks 2 to 3 layers of 1708 should be fine for a 17 foot boat. The downside is he says the planks are very expensive, at least the brand OB uses.
RE the trough. This is how we did ours, because we needed plenty of room rigging twins. Even then, as Seabob can attest, it was still a tight run. The trough on ours affixed to the outboard side of the starboard stringer. It is shown in the build pic thread
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10459 (http://www.classicaquasport.com/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10459)
Good luck sir :thumright:
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Just a few quick answers Ron,
Using the block foam for a "mold". Sure, why not. Using other filler/support material isn't new on this Forum. You can find re-builds that have used different types of wood and molded (encapsulated) the stringers around it. I believe several have used a foam material and constructed stringers (not "trapezoidal" but rather "traditional" in shape ) also.
The 2/3 (even 5) stringer layout was factory. Just changed over the years.
Of course any kind of "chase" will work better than just snaking wires under the deck but I'm guessing that the time needed for construction, cost and ease of install are the main reasons for using pipe. Availability is good also plus it provides a clean(er) environment (relatively speaking for a boat) for cabling.
PVC durability is another story.
No one has lived long enough to confirm its life expectancy since its invention. Conservative estimates vary but several hundred years is the norm when protected from UV rays so.......
If you use it above deck, I'd recommend a healthy slathering of SPF 50.
Schedule 40 is more than sufficient. Properly supported, it is foolproof. Since it does not need to contain any pressure rating, even if it should crack or chip its effective use would diminish very little.
Good luck.
Edit:
Thanks Scott, I had remembered others having rebuilt the stringers with a foam based product.
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The cold, cold snowy winter has taken its toll on my project- Boat has been sitting inside the covered carport waiting warmer weather to begin the rebuild- I have gotten onboard several times and inventoried what I have- one thing is the live-well helm seat is in excellent shape- just needs some cleaning up and the wood refinished- the live-well was never hooked up and it just like it came from the factory- question- what do I need to do to get it fully functional as a real everyday live-well ready to fish? Right now it is strictly a storage compartment- I looked for any links on the forum before posting but didn't find any. Whoever owned the boat originally took pretty good care of it- You can tell it was garage kept covered out of the sun. It was only in the last couple of years that it fell on hard times and was out in the weather.
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Welcome back Ron,
Are you talking about the helm seat, not the seat in front of the console? The thing that looks like a cooler? Post some pics.
I have the seat base that came with my boat but I am missing the track that it sat in and the swing backrest. Mine has a drain in one end in the bottom.
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Yeah, Rick, the swing back helm seat. Under the cushion, Mine has a oval deep bucket shaped bait tank but it was never hooked up with a drain or pump to circulated water. My seat is in really good shape, no tears, no cracks...the wood that holds the backrest needs to be stripped and varnished with a good quality varathane finish-Todd is the brand name...it is a pretty big tank...I am going to hook it up on the rebuild.
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Today was nice enough weatherwise, so I got out and started the diassembly process- boat was filthy so I took the helm seat/livewell out of the boat- the screws were mostly turning in rotten core- took all the screws out of the console footing. I got out a dust pan and a foxtail to get all the dirt and debris out- then I scrubbed the deck with soapy water so I wouldn't look like a coal miner laying down under the console taking the controls out- that is tomorrow's tasks-
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Ron, good deal.
With regard to the spinning screws...great discussion lately on clearing the rot, treating the holes, then filling.
Glad you're back :thumright:
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Looks like I have a completely full tank of gas...old gas...thoughts on how to dispose of it?
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Looks like I have a completely full tank of gas...old gas...thoughts on how to dispose of it?
Betcha you can run it through your vehicles with no probs...
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Not sure when the gas was put in the tank- Last MD registration I can find is 2006- that is a long time for fuel to be in a tank- varnish, chemical separation, etc. might ruin my vehicles- and my wife would skin me alive if I messed up her Chevy Impala...took all the screws out of the teak spacer under the console and pulled the console today- turning cold again- windy- I messed up my back screwing around with lifting the console with the darn cables still hooked up- so two ibuprofen and deep heat are working on it- but it is ready to pull the cover off the tank coffin- still got to figure out how to get the gas out of the tank- 27 gallons is too heavy to move by hand-
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Not sure when the gas was put in the tank- Last MD registration I can find is 2006- that is a long time for fuel to be in a tank- varnish, chemical separation, etc. might ruin my vehicles- and my wife would skin me alive if I messed up her Chevy Impala...took all the screws out of the teak spacer under the console and pulled the console today- turning cold again- windy- I messed up my back screwing around with lifting the console with the darn cables still hooked up- so two ibuprofen and deep heat are working on it- but it is ready to pull the cover off the tank coffin- still got to figure out how to get the gas out of the tank- 27 gallons is too heavy to move by hand-
I purchased one of those hand pump siphons took awhile but it worked. You just need to find a bunch of 5-7 gallon gas cans and a place to dispose of the old gas.
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You could go to a local autoparts store, get one of the electric 12vlt fuel pumps, hook it up just after the primer bulb, pump/prime till gas gets to it, then switch it on and begin the filling process into the container of your choice. Much easier than manual and the pump is about 20 bucks.
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I siphon mine out the stern.
You could use the existing fuel line, reverse the bulb and add cheap, clear plastic hose for the remainder to the can (EZ to see gas flow).
I use two 30 gal. drums I purchased from a Nestle employee east of Tallahassee (they make flavored water). The drums cleaned up very easily (some form of colored sweetener).
Anyway, my original WAC tank had almost 100 gals. on board when I purchased her. I drained it all out (to replace the tank) using the existing fuel line and raising the front of the boat. I drain my tank once a year over the winter(I have a seperate fuel pickup on the tank for this purpose) and start fresh in the spring. Yes the tank fills with water from condensation,then mixes with the ethanol and the boat usually only makes it ten to fifteen feet from the dock the first time I go out. :roll: So.............................
This idea is just for draining fuel. Takes a day or so but I'm in no rush.
Good luck and please be careful. :thumleft:
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10-4 on being careful- my back is still acting up with painful spasms- dumb stunt lifting console without completely disconnecting everything- anyway- I am making mental notes on what I want to do with my 170-
1- no rigging trough- that is going to be gone so that will require some thought and planning on mods to the stringer- and
2-my sole is soft to the edge on the port side so that may be a difficult repair if there is no good lip to support the new sole- have to see what happens when I cut it out- and
3-I have decided to plumb a full functioning live well in the seat live well, so that will require a thru hull seacock and wash down/live well pump system install- and
4-I have decided to completely re-wire my boat with new wiring and new Yamaha 704 binnacle control- the old Morse control is OK but the chrome is pitted and I just don't trust it- The engine control harness that came with 75 HP 2 stroke Yamaha I bought to re power is fine so I will use that and the control cables are good so I will use them- the Teleflex steering looks and works fine so I plan to use that--
5- I plan to install a bilge pump with auto float valve that will require some plumbing and a discharge port cut into the port side near the Aquasport 170 logo- that will require me to cut a pie plate for access in the inner liner-
6- I have bought Hummingbird 798 CI combo unit and a Horizon VHF marine radio with an 8' Shakespeare fiberglas antenna to install- that's it so far and that is things I know I need to do before I even have cut the sole out, so I have a pretty ambitious project on my hands- and first thing is to get my back healed up so I can get cracking on the rebuild-
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One day at a time :salut:
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One day at a time :salut:
So right, Rick- I am impatient and want this done yesterday...but I have to come to grips with the fact that this isn't a project you can rush and half-a$$...it has to be done properly and it has to be right- I totalled up my expenses so far and figured it would have been cheaper to have bought a good used boat...I bought a new (in the box) Yamaha 704 Premium Binnacle control off EBay last night $233 with shipping...I have six gallons of 635 thin resin epoxy and 10 yards of 1208 bixal cloth, 10 yards of 6 oz. cloth, three sheets of 1/2 marine plywood, a gallon of cabosil, 2 pounds of 1/4 chopped fiber, 50 yards of 1208 bixal tape, 4 gallons of pour in 2# expanding closed cell foam, rollers, mixing cups, 50 1/2 inch brushes, box of large latex disposable gloves, box of dust respirators, portable 30 gallon 7.8 cu.ft/min air compressor, shop vacuum, 6 inch air grinders, air chisel, air wrenches, air buffer/polisher, 50 ft. roll of clear plastic, and all kinds of sanding disc, cut off wheels, sanding sheets, etc. I am not figuring the cost of building the 24X21 enclosed on three sides metal carport- that is an investment for my property, even though I did it to have the boat under cover- so this project is something else...not just a boat to fish out of, but a see if you can do it yourself personal pride project...and giving a second life to an old classic that would otherwise be junked-
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- so this project is something else...not just a boat to fish out of, but a see if you can do it yourself personal pride project...and giving a second life to an old classic that would otherwise be junked-
:salut: :salut:
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I ordered a new in the box Yamaha binnacle 704 premium control off EBay that is supposed to be delivered this week- and two new Aquasport 170 plastic emblems to replace the old cracked ones- I bought a re-conditioned 30 gallon plastic barrel to drain the fuel out of my boat and a siphon barrel pump- so I am making some progress, but not killing myself...update- got everything I need for installing and operating my 75 hp Yamaha...Great Lakes Skipper had an ignition switch(push to choke) wiring harness and keys...the 704 Binnacle control is here and it is brand new in the factory box-
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Got out today, pulled all the cables, controls, etc. and removed the center console...big rascal...pulled the bilge pump, opened up all the pie plate accesses and cleaned up the mess...removed all the screws and pulled the tank coffin lid- the tank looks pretty corroded - flashlight shinning through the pie plate shows the stringers look pretty solid- no de-lamination visible..
(http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e230/ronaultmtd/2014_0417AD.jpg) (http://s40.photobucket.com/user/ronaultmtd/media/2014_0417AD.jpg.html)
(http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e230/ronaultmtd/2014_0417AB.jpg) (http://s40.photobucket.com/user/ronaultmtd/media/2014_0417AB.jpg.html)(http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e230/ronaultmtd/2014_0417AA.jpg) (http://s40.photobucket.com/user/ronaultmtd/media/2014_0417AA.jpg.html)
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The old fuel tank (56X20X6) was made in 1996 according to the date stamped on the BIAA label...so someone replaced it during the life of this old boat...and the poured foamed in really made removing it a nasty, tedious job. I had to cut the foam with a knife and pry out chunks...took me three hours yesterday afternoon of digging it out and pulling chunks of the fuel soaked foam to remove the tank...I don't think I will foam mine back in that way when I install my new tank.
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is that corrosion or foam on the tank? if that corrosion, its the worst ive ever seen.
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That is corrosion- ate through in a dozen or more places on the top...although the sides and bottom don't look that bad- the top of the tank is swiss cheese- gas did not drian out of the coffin- small pool of gas residue and heavy fumes in the coffin after pulling the tank...I plan on repairing all the screw holes on the coffin and over drilling and filling the screw holes in the coffin lid
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wow thats bad.
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Looked at the center console really close today- it doesn't need much of anything, so I am going to clean it up and fill a few holes and reuse it...thought about going with a new smaller Panga console but it is only 30 inches wide and I can't see picking up an inch per side being that big of a deal. I am replacing some of the Gages and not using others- using the GPS for speed...so there are three holes in the dash to patch and a few mounting holes here and there, but nothing major. The seat is firmly attached with factory hinges and looks perfect. I don't plan to touch it.
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Started cutting out the sole today- point of no return is long gone...I was amazed that the wood used to laminate the deck was a bunch of scrap pieces of 1/2 inch marine plywood put together like a puzzle and not a solid one piece of marine plywood...so far the stringers look perfect- other than 40 years of crud and dirt, the inside hull is perfect and shouldn't need much to put this all back together- I have not drilled a one inch hole in the stringer to check the foam, but it all looks nice and dry- the adhesive they used to glue the deck down is some nasty stuff(http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e230/ronaultmtd/2014_0504AA.jpg) (http://s40.photobucket.com/user/ronaultmtd/media/2014_0504AA.jpg.html)
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Ron, not to be the bearer of unwanted news.....but a '74 is pretty much guaranteed to have water in the stringers. When we tore ours down, the top third of the foam was dry...the middle portion damp, then wet...and the bottom third saturated.
You can leave it like it is, drill some holes low on the inside stringers at the back near the transom...cock up the bow and let it drain. Or you could go the full monty and strip them out. Kinda depends on where you want to be on the time/money investment :salut:
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I guess the 64 million dollar question here is how long would it take for the new foam to duplicate the 40 year old foam and get soaking wet again- my understanding is the vinyl resins allow water to seep in and the hulls are made with this type of resins. If it is an effort in futility, why not just drain and seal the drain holes with epoxy patches? I have everything I think I need to do a full restoration including the pourable expanding foam from US Composites. And my floor will definitely be stronger and stiffer than the jigsaw puzzle pieces of plywood laminated together 40 years ago...
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You are right. The thing to evaluate is how the foam became soaked to begin with.
We've hit on two theories:
a) The consoles were screwed through the deck and into the stringers. Over the years...regardless of how well-sealed...the screw holes leaked water into the stringers.
b) The transoms leaked water around the lower garboard drain tube. Transom became wet, stringers became wet.
Throw in delamination of the outer tabbing, bilge water could leak into the stringers. Many potential combinations. Even if just a little every year....40 years is a long time.
So....when you go to rebuild, be aware of stringer piercing, etc. Glue/glass the deck down, console screws away from the stringers, etc
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It appears that the foam is a necessary structural support component in the rigidity of the hull/deck/liner. before I cut any more of the sole away, I am going to put the boat up on blocks and have it perfectly level so as not to induce any stress or flex in the hull. I have cut out some of the stern section decking just to look and see what extent of a rebuild I was looking at. The boat is almost totally 1974 factory stock with very few owner add ons. It has very few issues that need to be addressed- one starboard rod holder (the rear one) is loose and not screwed in, someone put in a Rule 750 bilge pump and did a lousy job plumbing it...when they replaced the aluminum fuel tank in 1999 they put it in bare metal, no paint or preservative, and the wiring under the console looks like a rat's nest...anyway today is getting the boat jacked up and leveled on cinder blocks that I picked up yesterday from Lowes and off the trailer. Then it is "Katy bar the door" full-bore rebuild-
(http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e230/ronaultmtd/th_2014_0505AA.jpg) (http://s40.photobucket.com/albums/e230/ronaultmtd/?action=view¤t=2014_0505AA.jpg)
(http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e230/ronaultmtd/th_2014_0505AC.jpg) (http://s40.photobucket.com/albums/e230/ronaultmtd/?action=view¤t=2014_0505AC.jpg)
(http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e230/ronaultmtd/th_2014_0505AD.jpg) (http://s40.photobucket.com/albums/e230/ronaultmtd/?action=view¤t=2014_0505AD.jpg)
(http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e230/ronaultmtd/th_2014_0505AE.jpg) (http://s40.photobucket.com/albums/e230/ronaultmtd/?action=view¤t=2014_0505AE.jpg)
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I guess the 64 million dollar question here is how long would it take for the new foam to duplicate the 40 year old foam and get soaking wet again- my understanding is the vinyl resins allow water to seep in and the hulls are made with this type of resins. If it is an effort in futility, why not just drain and seal the drain holes with epoxy patches? I have everything I think I need to do a full restoration including the pourable expanding foam from US Composites. And my floor will definitely be stronger and stiffer than the jigsaw puzzle pieces of plywood laminated together 40 years ago...
I believe the closed cell foam used today is much more impervious to water absorption than what they used when these old boats were built. I would still be judicious about sealing it in and keeping that water away from it, but I don't think it will be in that bad a shape in 40 years. At least that is what I'm counting on.
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Need some advice on electrical supplies to replace the wiring and circuits in my rebuild- Is there a difference in the wiring for marine use vs. standard Home Depot wiring you can buy in the local hardware stores? What gages of wire will I need or should I just hire an electrician to re-wire and rig the boat? Some of the work I see in the re-builds is fantastic and the experiences of others is a very valuable resource for us amateurs...The navigation lighting will all be replaced with new equipment- I have a Hummingbird 798 ci DI unit to install and a Standard Horizon VHF marine Radio- that will be the extent of my electronics- I will have 2 AGM 12 volt batteries onboard- I have the Optima series 31 900 battery and plan on buying another series 27 AGM battery as a backup- just in case. So a Blue Sea battery switch is on the list- I would welcome a shopping list of essentials and necessary supplies- as well as sources for buying...
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There is a difference in the wires. Marine wire is tin coated which slows down the corrosion rate of the wire itself. Most lugs are the same and you will need to heat shrink all connections. Well most anyway.
http://gregsmarinewiresupply.com/Zen/ (http://gregsmarinewiresupply.com/Zen/)
http://www.genuinedealz.com/ (http://www.genuinedealz.com/)
Most regular household electricians don't understand 12 volt and rigging. Some may but I think they would be the exception.
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The Resource forum is your friend.
Here's some things to help along the way.
http://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=9053.0
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Thanks for the help fellas- I am very mechanically inclined but electricity and I just don't get along- so re-wiring the boat is not something I am looking forward to...This is getting to be a pretty big refurbishing if not an outright rebuild effort- It is not the quick swap out the soft deck deal I had hoped for. I looked at the list of materials and equipment I have bought- just about the only thing not being replaced is the original stainless steering wheel- the NFB Teleflex 4.2 steering system is brand new, 704 binnacle control is brand new- new Yamaha ignition switch and harness, 1998 Yamaha 75 HP 2 stroke replaced a 1974 Johnson 70 hp, new 1/2 inch marine plywood cored laminated sole, new poured in flotation foam, new 27 gallon aluminum fuel tank, fuel gage sending unit, hoses, etc. New electronics, new wiring, new navigation lights, new bilge pump with overboard discharge thru hull fitting cut into port aft side under the 170 emblem- That is pretty close to a full rebuild, don't you think?
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We started a full blown home remodeling project this Spring and the boat is taking a back seat for a while--I'll let you know when I can get back on it-
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I am Back- boat has been setting under cover- but I am retiring July 1st- now I am back on the boat project- figure a few weeks to get it done-
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Good to see you back on it.
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I am Back- boat has been setting under cover- but I am retiring July 1st- now I am back on the boat project- figure a few weeks to get it done-
hey man you fixing yer boat yet???
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I have a friend who retired this year. He has more projects stacked up than I do.. and that is saying a lot!
He told me that he has less time now than he did before he retired... Hmm...
Dave