Classic AquaSport
Aquasport Model Rebuilds, Mods, Updates and Refreshes => Osprey Style Hull Rebuilds => 165/170/175 Rebuilds => Topic started by: RickK on December 15, 2012, 09:01:51 AM
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I know that I've been hinting at my rebuild and with all the other great rebuilds going on right now, my 170 rebuild will add to the fantasia.
Why rebuild it? 1) I had some rot going on in the front edge of the floor. 2) If I was going to redo the floor, I want to do a few other things like putting the fuel tank under the floor and putting everything that is exposed right now, inside the console.
I started by building a gantry on Saturday. This is my buddy/neighbor Eddie - who helped through a lot ("anything but grinding") of this
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/Sarasota-20121111-00051.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16432&title=sarasota-20121111-00051&cat=646)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/Sarasota-20121111-00053.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16432&title=sarasota-20121111-00053&cat=646)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/Sarasota-20121111-00054.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16432&title=sarasota-20121111-00054&cat=646)
and a motor stand the next day. We hoisted the engine off the boat (broke down and started this whole thing) and landed it on the stand.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/Sarasota-20121111-00050.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16432&title=sarasota-20121111-00050&cat=646)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG0577.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16438&title=cimg0577&cat=646)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG0576.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16438&title=cimg0576&cat=646)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG0575.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16438&title=cimg0575&cat=646)
We started to "undress" the engine and then popped the powerhead off using the gantry
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG0579.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16438&title=cimg0579&cat=646)
I designed the stand a little large (8" wheels and a little long) and when I needed a place to put the lower unit - you know, out of the way - it just so happened that the LU fit perfectly on one side of the stand and incidentally the powerhead fit nicely on the other side of the stand.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG0583.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16438&title=cimg0583&cat=646)
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The same day I dove in and cut the floor out of the boat. Here is a pic of the non-skid after 10 years, it is dirty from all the de-construction but if I had wanted to clean it up again it does clean up well. You can see how non-skid it is and you can also see the "water-run stripes" made when you tape it off.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG0584.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16444&title=cimg0584&cat=646)
I replaced the floor 14 years ago and all but the front 6" felt solid and the underside looked like the day I put it in. I coated it with resin only by advice of the vendor of the supplies - seemed to be sound advice.
I used a circular saw to cut the floor out and as you see there is some wood "spacers" from the last time I replaced the floor. Last time I did the usual "When you cut it out leave an inch or so around the edge and lay the new floor on top".
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG0585.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16444&title=cimg0585&cat=646)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG0586.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16444&title=cimg0586&cat=646)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG0587.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16444&title=cimg0587&cat=646)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG0589.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16444&title=cimg0589&cat=646)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG0592.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16450&title=cimg0592&cat=646)
This is the trough that is the standard on the old boats - not sure if this is not still the best way to go upon rebuild - open to ideas. I will not be enclosing the transom and there are not going to be boxes in the corners to hide the wiring.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG0591.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16450&title=cimg0591&cat=646)
This model has a major liner and I want to make sure when I'm done the boat is self-bailing. I think I need to raise the floor at least an inch, possibly slope it more to the rear and also move the scuppers from the original spots, which were designed for the older narrower engines.
Working with the liner will prove to be a challenge for me and since I want to raise the floor but not raise the whole liner, I cut the casting deck from the liner. We'll see how that decision works out later.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG0597.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16450&title=cimg0597&cat=646)
The common concern for the older boats is the cracking along the top of the transom. Here is a good example of the crack.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG0598.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16450&title=cimg0598&cat=646)
I cut into the corner where the lower cut of the transom meets the part that goes out to the hull sides - you can see the cut in the pic immediately above. Lots of glass there.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG0600.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16450&title=cimg0600&cat=646)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG0601.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16450&title=cimg0601&cat=646)
I cut along the top inch of the transom and started to dig in.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG0603.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16450&title=cimg0603&cat=646)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG0602.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16450&title=cimg0602&cat=646)
I cut out the sides of the liner near the transom, thinking I would replace the transom core first and then remove the cap - that ended up not being what happened though and I'll have to re-install/repair those cutoffs.
I used an air chisel and it made the tear out SOOOO much easier (thanks for the tip LilRichard). Between Eddie using a prybar and me using the chisel we had the wood out in maybe two hours.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/IMG_27451.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16457&title=img-27451&cat=646)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/IMG_27461.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16457&title=img-27461&cat=646)
More later.
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Like the engine stand :thumright:
Couple of ?
Are you going to reuse the wiring trough or do something different?
Are you going to refoam everything(open areas, stringers)
Are you going to raise the center of your transom to make it one level side to side or leave the dip in the center?
She looks good to have been redone 14 years ago, did you do it then also?
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Like the engine stand :thumright:
It's definitely stout - it will be available after this if anyone would like to purchase it. Gantrys too.
Couple of ?
Are you going to reuse the wiring trough or do something different?
Undecided - the trend is to use big piping but I have no good way to bring up the wires/cables without it looking like chit or allowing water in. Still open to suggestions on that. Maybe I'll fabricate a little deeper trough. It also was part of the deck drainage system.
Are you going to refoam everything(open areas, stringers)
Not sure yet. Also not sure how I want to make the stringers - I do know that I will probably go from 3 down to 2 stringers with inner and outer bulkheads. Or stay with 3 and bulkhead off the tank. As for foam - if I build stringers like the original I may need to foam them for stability and some flotation. Not sure if I need foam in the rest of the boat - I like the foam they use in the boats that Gran's rebuilder makes.
Are you going to raise the center of your transom to make it one level side to side or leave the dip in the center?
Leave it like it is - maybe raise the outsides a bit more - still undecided on that.
She looks good to have been redone 14 years ago, did you do it then also?
Yes. Stringers are shot and in fact the center one was destroyed which was another reason I redid the floor 14 years ago. The hull had no stability and would twist as I was running it over slight waves - scary. I had to patch in some wood and then glass over it to strengthen it. Worked great and tightened up the integrity of the hull. In fact it is still solid or was until I cut out the stringers 2 days ago.
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Built another gantry. We popped the cap/liner off and flipped it over.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/IMG_27441.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16459&title=img-27441&cat=646)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/IMG_27501.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16459&title=img-27501&cat=646)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/IMG_27493.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16459&title=img-27493&cat=646)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/IMG_27512.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16459&title=img-27512&cat=646)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/IMG_27522.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16459&title=img-27522&cat=646)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/IMG_27533.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16465&title=img-27533&cat=646)
This is the only place that has coring in the entire cap. That's the bottom mount for the front cleat. (See a side view 2 pics up) I will add a bigger piece of coring in the front - not sure what to do along the sides.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/IMG_27541.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16464&title=img-27541&cat=646)
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Do you think the stand would hold the Yamaha motor on the 230?
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Here is a pic of the capless hull.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/IMG_2748.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16466&title=img-2748&cat=646)
I bought a 19x19 blue tarp and attached it to the gantrys to make a temp garage. Then I cut the stringers out.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/IMG_27552.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16467&title=img-27552&cat=646)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/IMG_27562.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16468&title=img-27562&cat=646)
Then the fun of the grinding started - definitely learned my trunk muscles are not what they used to be :roll: :roll: :lol: :lol:
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/IMG_27571.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16469&title=img-27571&cat=646)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/IMG_27581.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16470&title=img-27581&cat=646)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/IMG_2759.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16471&title=img-2759&cat=646)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/IMG_27601.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16472&title=img-27601&cat=646)
Took half a day. Here is the hull rinsed out.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/IMG_2761.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16473&title=img-2761&cat=646)
I still need to pull the front eyes (yes I have 2) and then pop that glass off up front - just no easy way to kneel in the boat way up front. :scratch: :scratch: :scratch:
Today I'll lay some 1x2s across the hull to keep it in shape.
Then it's planning time to put together my glass shopping list.
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Do you think the stand would hold the Yamaha motor on the 230?
I think so, with it tilted up a bit since the 230 is a 25" model. The wheels are rated for 400# each. The weight of the 250 is, I think, around 600#.
Wait, is this a curse :lol:
I'm not about to pull that motor off, she's still in great operating health. :lol:
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(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/IMG_2761.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16473&title=img-2761&cat=646)
I want to lay some fresh glass across the entire hull - maybe some 1708 in the chine areas in increasing widths and then two layers of 1808 on the bottom and sides.
If you look at the front portion of this pic the prow of the boat drops down below the plane of the rest of the hull.
Here is a side view and if you look closely you can see the prow dropping down.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/1971_Aquasport_170.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16474&title=1971-aquasport-170&cat=646)
I'm not sure how I will get glass to lay well in that area and into the strakes. I think I'll have to do this in small overlapping pieces. This area needs to be strong.
Any ideas from the Master Rebuilders?
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Excellent progress Rick. :salut:
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Wow, you have been BUSY! You're getting a great job :thumright:
I'm thinking you'll be happier if you lay the stringers with a chase tube in mind. Doesn't have to be huge....the only reason ours was a big as it was is due to the twins. That original deck chase would be a PITA down the road.
Pulling that cap and the liner as one piece was the way to fly. That will save a chitload of time and money....Good job :rendeer:
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This is going quick :thumright: The cap looks in great shape for its age :cheers: ..and since you can do your stringers as you choose now, have you thought of pipe chases down the starboard side , turned up at the starboard rear right before the transom and then exiting in the cap wall about half-way up.I basically followed the original through and just turned it up between the liner and the hull :) ..if you look at my floor rebuild, thats where I put mine, I get no water in them( 2 in for hydraulic steering and fuel and transducer)( 3 in for the engine harness battery cables and control lines)I did have to put the control lines in before the pipes were glued together :scratch: ... not to hard, the Johnson control cables don't like to bend to much, and if they ever need replaceing I can pull new ones under the floor and up to the same exit area..The chases in mine exit under the console right under the controls, left about 1 inch of pipe sticking up and sealed it to the new floor..even with the control cables in the 3 in pipe I still had room to pull the engine harness and all the wiring to the rear in 1 pull and it really wasn't to tough still have room if I need to pull another wire or 2..I sealed the ends at the rear with rubber sheets glued and zip tied..it works and I hated the through :thumright:
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I'm not sure how I will get glass to lay well in that area and into the strakes. I think I'll have to do this in small overlapping pieces. This area needs to be strong.
Big fillet of putty in the keel section (probably cabosil and a mix of milled and chopped fibers), and for the strakes id lay a few strips of mat followed by some strips of bulkier glass til even with the rest of the hull. Then continue with the whole hull lamination...
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I'm not sure how I will get glass to lay well in that area and into the strakes. I think I'll have to do this in small overlapping pieces. This area needs to be strong.
Big fillet of putty in the keel section (probably cabosil and a mix of milled and chopped fibers), and for the strakes id lay a few strips of mat followed by some strips of bulkier glass til even with the rest of the hull. Then continue with the whole hull lamination...
Thanks Dirt.
They originally just covered the strakes with the roven that was part of the stringer system. So you'd fill the strakes in totally? Makes sense to have a flat surface. How much build up would you try to do at one time?
The putty in the keel section is to build it up to make it easy to lay glass cloth in? How thick at one time?
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This is going quick :thumright: The cap looks in great shape for its age :cheers: ..and since you can do your stringers as you choose now, have you thought of pipe chases down the starboard side , turned up at the starboard rear right before the transom and then exiting in the cap wall about half-way up.I basically followed the original through and just turned it up between the liner and the hull :) ..if you look at my floor rebuild, thats where I put mine, I get no water in them( 2 in for hydraulic steering and fuel and transducer)( 3 in for the engine harness battery cables and control lines)I did have to put the control lines in before the pipes were glued together :scratch: ... not to hard, the Johnson control cables don't like to bend to much, and if they ever need replaceing I can pull new ones under the floor and up to the same exit area..The chases in mine exit under the console right under the controls, left about 1 inch of pipe sticking up and sealed it to the new floor..even with the control cables in the 3 in pipe I still had room to pull the engine harness and all the wiring to the rear in 1 pull and it really wasn't to tough still have room if I need to pull another wire or 2..I sealed the ends at the rear with rubber sheets glued and zip tied..it works and I hated the through :thumright:
Thanks Gman - I'll have to re-look at your rebuild and see what you're talking about.
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Gman, Rick,
That's why I'm recommending using 45s coming off the ends of the rigging tubes. I use a universal cable for my snake, so I really don't care if it gets bent or not. Mark's 250 CCP, it has 90s on the tubes in the console, my snake did NOT like to negotiate that turn upward...
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How true, I had a hard time getting the Johnson cables thru the 90 degree turns but they went thru the 45 degree ones. The smartest thing I did was try them before glueing them :o , after seeing that they were going to give me a hard time, I just ran them thru one peice at a time then went back and glued the pieces, I had a total of 2 45's and 2 90's per line that I ran.. the 90's were where it comes out of the floor and where it comes out of the liner...On the wiring chase I used an elbow with a 2in cut out on it to take the wiring for lights and such out of the tube behind the liner :)
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Thanks Dirt.
They originally just covered the strakes with the roven that was part of the stringer system. So you'd fill the strakes in totally? Makes sense to have a flat surface. How much build up would you try to do at one time?
The putty in the keel section is to build it up to make it easy to lay glass cloth in? How thick at one time?
Yea id fill em in. Another option would be to bed some high density core in and shape it then lay some tape over it. Personally i dont think they need to be solid glass.
Yep putty just to make that transition in the keel easier to laminate. Ive got probably half a dozen different sized radius tools to spread fillets out with. Make it as thick as you need to lay glass easily, you should be able to do it in one shot just make sure to get it outta the bucket and spread out on a board! Doing it wet on wet will make it way easier too. I like to let fillets get a little firm then glass em. Keeps the roller from pushing it out..
Can you get a closer shot of that section?
oh and slow down, youre making us look bad! haha
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oh and slow down, youre making us look bad! haha
you can say that again!
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Yea id fill em in. Another option would be to bed some high density core in and shape it then lay some tape over it. Personally i dont think they need to be solid glass.
Yep putty just to make that transition in the keel easier to laminate. Ive got probably half a dozen different sized radius tools to spread fillets out with. Make it as thick as you need to lay glass easily, you should be able to do it in one shot just make sure to get it outta the bucket and spread out on a board! Doing it wet on wet will make it way easier too. I like to let fillets get a little firm then glass em. Keeps the roller from pushing it out..
Can you get a closer shot of that section?
oh and slow down, youre making us look bad! haha
I have been working this for a couple weeks now (engine included) and only have a couple weeks left before I head back to work - gotta get her done :lol:
I'll get a closer pic of the area tomorrow.
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oh and slow down, youre making us look bad! haha
you can say that again!
I think you're still ahead of me - you have the transom core done - I haven't figured out what I'm going to use yet. :roll:
Going to order materials tomorrow.
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oh and slow down, youre making us look bad! haha
you can say that again!
I think you're still ahead of me - you have the transom core done - I haven't figured out what I'm going to use yet. :roll:
Going to order materials tomorrow.
remember, im working on 2 boats too :puker: :cheers: :lol:
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That'd be tough.
We popped out the "pretty much useless" rod inserts that must have been an option on this boat. I realized that they are an option because we see other 170s without them but still have the openings they fill, trimmed in teak. Always wondered about that and once I popped them out it became clear. One thing they are good for is sealing up the boat so no water can get into the bilge. I'll re-install them for that purpose - otherwise they are useless, too short to put rods in and then the rods are in your way as you walk by the console. Notice I cut a hole in one to allow a 7ft rod - need to get those tubes that JJ was showing us.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/IMG_27631.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16475&title=img-27631&cat=646)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/IMG_27641.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16476&title=img-27641&cat=646)
This pic is for the guys that have a wire go bad and they can't seem to pull the wire out. Seems that some of these fiberglass "chases" were wet too much and it grabbed the wire :roll: :roll: :roll:
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/IMG_27651.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16477&title=img-27651&cat=646)
I soaked the cleat on the bow with PB the day before and when we put a 15/16" socket on it, it broke free easily :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: I like a center cleat. Hope I can find another like it. I also have to worry about room for a trolling motor up front, so I hope a centered cleat won't be in the way.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/IMG_2766.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16478&title=img-2766&cat=646)
Spent some time grinding the bottom edge of the liner
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/IMG_27671.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16479&title=img-27671&cat=646)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/IMG_2768.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16480&title=img-2768&cat=646)
Also cut out the wood for the eye in front and ground down the entire area, to include the strake areas. (I'm so done with grinding :roll: :roll: :roll: - even though I know I'm not)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/IMG_2769.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16481&title=img-2769&cat=646)
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Consider a pop-up cleat up front :thumright:
Like Dirt's recommendation on the fillets... that is exactly where you would want extra weight/strength.
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Looking good Rick, I'm going to stop by one day this week and take a peek.
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I have a cleat just like that on the bow of my 19-6, but instead of a bolt holding it on, mine has a 18 in long peice of 5/8 stainless threaded rod(11 count thread) that connects to the eyelet on the lower bow tieing the lower eyelet to the upper cleat :scratch: I always assumed that the factory did it that way I just replaced it all with new hardware when I re-did it. You definatly don't move the cleat at all :thumright:
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Gman that is like that so the boat can be lifted by the eye. the threaded rod transfers the lifting load to the hull otherwise the cap would be torn off!
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Figured as much :salut:
Rick you sure are making good time here...
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I purchased most of the goodies for the rebuild on Tuesday. Had to build a rack for the materials - 3/4oz on top, 1.5 oz in the middle and then 1708 on the bottom. Bought a whole roll of 1708 - got a better deal that way. Covered it with plastic to protect it since I stored it outside.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/IMG_27701.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16487&title=img-27701&cat=646)
Glued some cardboard together and used the outside of the transom to trace the shape of the transom. Cut and fit it inside.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/IMG_27712.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16482&title=img-27712&cat=646)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/IMG_27721.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16483&title=img-27721&cat=646)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/IMG_27731.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16484&title=img-27731&cat=646)
Hung a board across the top back of the transom, cut the materials for the lam of the transom and clamped them onto the board. Then I cut each layer to fit. (Thanks for the tips, Dirt)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/IMG_2774.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16485&title=img-2774&cat=646)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/IMG_27751.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16486&title=img-27751&cat=646)
Then I flipped them out of the boat.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/IMG_2776.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16488&title=img-2776&cat=646)
Next it was time to get to work. My buddy Eddie mixed and I layed. We mixed up some putty and laid a nice fillet all around the transom and let that start to kick.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/IMG_2776.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16488&title=img-2776&cat=646)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/IMG_2779.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16490&title=img-2779&cat=646)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/IMG_27801.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16491&title=img-27801&cat=646)
Then we started laying the initial lam of the transom - 1.5oz + 2 layers of 1708.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/IMG_2781.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16492&title=img-2781&cat=646)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/IMG_27821.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16493&title=img-27821&cat=646)
Before I started the lam I noticed that I had a 1-1.5" inward bow on the transom when the coring was removed.
We built some clamps like seen on Eugene's rebuild thread (thanks for the tips and examples to follow Eugene) and clamped the initial lam up for the night.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/IMG_27833.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16494&title=img-27833&cat=646)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/IMG_27841.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16495&title=img-27841&cat=646)
Then we lam'd the transom core - 2 layers of 3/4" marine plywood with 3/4oz, 1708 and 3/4oz between them.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/IMG_2786.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16496&title=img-2786&cat=646)
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Looking good Rick!
Hey nobody's asked...what do the neighbors think about your little project?
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My question is did the clamps and glass take the bow out of the skin?
One thing about the glass rolls being outside(and I understand you are about to use most of it up) 1708 can and will absorb humidity out of the air. Yes it takes a while but keep this in mind. I had 10 yards in my basement for a couple of months and poly would not stick to it, epoxy would.
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Awesome progress!!!!
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There ya go :thumright:
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Looking good Rick!
Hey nobody's asked...what do the neighbors think about your little project?
They're ok with it. Probably not thrilled with the blue tarp but most of the thing is hidden by the big boat. :geek:
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My question is did the clamps and glass take the bow out of the skin?
Last night (6 hours after clamping them) I took the clamps off long enough to pull the big sheet of melamine off and reclamped with the 3/4" plywood only on the outside - still double layers of wood on the inside. This way we could slide the boat back up on the trailer and get it under the tarp since they were predicting rain from the front coming through. Not a drop in the boat this morning.
Anyway, seems the bow was still there though when I checked it for that exact reason, in the brief time the clamps were off - remember that there is still no coring in there so maybe that's normal? I wouldn't think so though.
One thing about the glass rolls being outside(and I understand you are about to use most of it up) 1708 can and will absorb humidity out of the air. Yes it takes a while but keep this in mind. I had 10 yards in my basement for a couple of months and poly would not stick to it, epoxy would.
I pulled it in to the garage last night. Good to know though.
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I started grinding all the ooze off the transom and scruffing up the inside for when it gets warmer. I also ground down and dry fit the transom core - seems I still have a 3/8" inward bow to the transom. I guess it is what it is - didn't lay a straight edge on the transom before I started (note to self). Not sure I can do anything about it nor if it will affect anything. I won't tell if you won't. It'll be solid though.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/IMG_27871.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16497&title=img-27871&cat=646)
The core lam'd nice it seems
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/IMG_2788.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16498&title=img-2788&cat=646)
The fit is nice after some belt sanding and cutting.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/IMG_27921.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16500&title=img-27921&cat=646)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/IMG_2791.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16499&title=img-2791&cat=646)
I cut the top of the core at a good angle to allow the liner to fit back on - Port side
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/IMG_2793.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16501&title=img-2793&cat=646)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/IMG_2794.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16504&title=img-2794&cat=646)
Starboard side
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/IMG_27891.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16502&title=img-27891&cat=646)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/IMG_27901.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16503&title=img-27901&cat=646)
Will be a couple days of non glassing until it warms up - plenty to do though on this project.
Guess I could pull the console out and start cutting it up. :idea: :idea: :idea:
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Looking good Rick!
Hey nobody's asked...what do the neighbors think about your little project?
They're ok with it. Probably not thrilled with the blue tarp but most of the thing is hidden by the big boat. :geek:
my neighbors dont mind my project since im usually glassing or grinding while they are at work...
looks good rick :thumright:
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I went to Marine Surplus in Bradenton and bought a belly tank.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/IMG_2795.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16505&title=img-2795&cat=646)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/IMG_2799.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16505&title=img-2799&cat=646)
Pretty old but has had nothing in it but air
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/IMG_2798.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16505&title=img-2798&cat=646)
Price was decent
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/IMG_2796.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16505&title=img-2796&cat=646)
Sits pretty well in the hull and that is right under where the console will be - back edge is where the console back edge is. I think I will need to jack the front up a bit though. This boat has never had a belly tank in her - always above deck.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/IMG_2802.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16505&title=img-2802&cat=646)
Also you can see the "fill" in the prow of the boat (lower that the rest of the boat and can hold water - same as what you saw Eugene doing on the Hefner rebuild). Made it out of Jasper board. Will lam each side with 3/4 or 1.5 oz. Nothing will be touching it or other than maybe a little hull twist support, will be supported by it, just to fill the void - and I will fill below it with foam. I will also fill in the strakes to get a flat surface.
Now it's on to stringer design.
C'mon warm weather.
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Excellent.
27 gallons...81 bucks. That's a deal. 81 bucks is a bad dinner somewhere.
New poly tank full of air...regardless of the date of manufacture....the only thing that deteriorates poly is UV. Willing to bet the pic in your boat is the first time that tank has seen daylight.
Good job on the forward plug. You've done your homework..and taken the best ideas from several rebuilds.
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Nice tank Rick! We used Inca at PL, excellent tanks. That one will outlive the boat AND you!
Do me a favor next time you're at Marine Surplus. Check on float switches, let me know what they want for them. Rule, Sure-bail, Johnson, Attwood, whatever they have. I'd appreciate it... :salut:
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Nice work Rick :thumright: Now you will be considered a master re-builder per the site ranks. How will your user name be both red & gold :scratch: :wink:
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Looking good, Rick! I was wondering why nobody seems to use poly tanks in their rebuilds. It seems like a very economical alternative to aluminum. Nice find!
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Nice work Rick :thumright: Now you will be considered a master re-builder per the site ranks. How will your user name be both red & gold :scratch: :wink:
Unfortunately you can only have one "rank".
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Looking good, Rick! I was wondering why nobody seems to use poly tanks in their rebuilds. It seems like a very economical alternative to aluminum. Nice find!
I agree CL.
I bet they have 5 more of these 27gal tanks there plus a whole lot more, bigger and smaller.
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The biggest obstacle in regards to using poly tanks is that one is limited in size and shape as to what's out there. The simple way around this is to determine what is the closest that will fit the tank compartment, then build the compartment around the physical shape of the tank.
Builders use Roto-molded tanks basically in boats up to a certain size, and a certain tankage. More or less a price point thing. In boats, say, 22' or less, the price of the boat is a HUGE factor as to whether they sell a lot of units or not, as the competition is fierce. So all aspects of the build have to be looked at in regards to paring costs, and, hence, retail price. Once you start to get into the bigger boats, price becomes less of a selling point and features start to take over in the consumers mind. So they switch over to aluminum tanks...
Also keep in mind a certain amount of units of a particular model have to be sold in order to re-coup the cost of the tank manufacturer to build the mold for the tank, which is passed on to the builder. That cost is usually somewhere between $3-5K. If the tank manufacturer is only charging $80 a tank to the builder, that builder has to sell a lot of boats to re-coup the mold costs...
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So Bob, you made a comment that Rick's tank will outlast his boat. Aside from being able to build a tank to fit an existing space, what is the benefit of aluminum that it commands a much higher price?
Sorry for the derail Rick!
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Frankly Craig, I don't know. I mean, you look at your tank, the tanks in all the 225 Explorers and Ospreys, and they are all doing fine. The 225s have a 102 gal. tank, so Moeller and Incas make them pretty big.
The only thing I can really think of, and I may be wrong ( :shock: :shock: ), is that as you get into bigger tanks for bigger boats, you will start to have multiple users, i.e. twin/triple engines, generator, that sort of thing where you need multiple pickups, and, in the case of diesel applications, returns as well. So obviously tooling costs go up. I've never seen a diesel boat with Roto-molded tanks so there may be an issue with diesel reacting with the poly, I don't know.
And yes, usually with larger boats and multiple users you'll find 2 tanks, although PLs 35 Express used a single 450 gal. tank to feed triple O/Bs plus a genset, so multiple tanks aren't the rule...
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The biggest obstacle in regards to using poly tanks is that one is limited in size and shape as to what's out there. The simple way around this is to determine what is the closest that will fit the tank compartment, then build the compartment around the physical shape of the tank.
Exactly what I'm doing.
I'm not sure what kind of tank my 230 is - never popped the covers to see.
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The biggest obstacle in regards to using poly tanks is that one is limited in size and shape as to what's out there. The simple way around this is to determine what is the closest that will fit the tank compartment, then build the compartment around the physical shape of the tank.
Exactly what I'm doing.
I'm not sure what kind of tank my 230 is - never popped the covers to see.
You should, Rick...really, in all honesty. You know I re-wire a BUNCH of old boats, you'd be surprised at what I see when I remove the pies or hatches...
Besides, ABYC HIGHLY recommends a yearly inspection of the entire fuel system, connecting points wise. Fill and vent hoses both at the deck fill and vent fitting, and on the tank, feed line on the tank and at the separator, and the sending unit.
If you remember this pic from my friend Marc's Mako 224 that I re-wired....
(http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh301/seabob4/MarcLillis224Mako/100_0568.jpg)
I about poo-pooed my pants when I saw that, and this pic is with a lot of crap cleaned up so I could re-wire the sender...
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I may have taken a peek but that was long ago (6yrs?) - definitely NOT within the recommended standards :roll:
Add that to my list. I need to start her up tomorrow so maybe that is the time to do it. I'll report back.
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Frankly Craig, I don't know. I mean, you look at your tank, the tanks in all the 225 Explorers and Ospreys, and they are all doing fine. The 225s have a 102 gal. tank, so Moeller and Incas make them pretty big.
The only thing I can really think of, and I may be wrong ( :shock: :shock: ), is that as you get into bigger tanks for bigger boats, you will start to have multiple users, i.e. twin/triple engines, generator, that sort of thing where you need multiple pickups, and, in the case of diesel applications, returns as well. So obviously tooling costs go up. I've never seen a diesel boat with Roto-molded tanks so there may be an issue with diesel reacting with the poly, I don't know.
And yes, usually with larger boats and multiple users you'll find 2 tanks, although PLs 35 Express used a single 450 gal. tank to feed triple O/Bs plus a genset, so multiple tanks aren't the rule...
Bob, the biggest problem with using poly tanks with diesel is there is a larger andquicker temperature swing compared to aluminum, that swing causes algae to form quicker.
moller has a72 gallon tank that fits between my stringers and will fit after the deck is raised so thats what ill probably get.
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Well thank you Aaron! How's Texas? And Merry Christmas to the Swafford bunch!!!
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Yesterday I had some time on my hands so I made the forms for the stringers. You can see some nice round fillets in the corners. I will cover the forms in 7mil visquene and use that as the release. Will leave the outer side of the stringer less than perfect but it'll still be structrally sound. There are two types as you can see - the one on the right has two sides at an angle and the one on the left has a 90 degree side and an angle side. This stringer will be used up against the fuel tank - flat side to tank.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/IMG_2803.JPG)
I set the transom core today after dry clamping with a few different tactics to get the inward bow out. Ended up with a pair of 2x4 PT on edge with 6" spacers between screwed together and it pulled most of the bow out so I went with that.
I made up some resin putty and filleted the 3 corners of the transom area and then used a 1/4" notch trowel (thanks for the tip Lilrichard) and trowelled putty across the inside transom. I also soaked the inside wood core and edges and layed a 1.5oz mat soaked and then we installed the core and clamped the heck out of it. Saw good ooze out of the places I checked so I will leave it clamped for a day or so - hoping that the little bit of remaining bow will remain and not get worse.
In this pic you can see that I have about 3/8" at the lower notchout of the transom after the clamping. It is the same spacing about all the way across the transom with the exception on the very corners of the transom. So I think we're good.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/IMG_2804.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/IMG_2805.JPG)
You can see the gap difference at the corner. BTW, it looks like there is a gap between the core and the skin but if you look close you'll see thick resin oozing up in there. I think it'll be a solid connection.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/IMG_2806.JPG)
After the transom we started on making stringers.
We first made one of the double angled ones - started off with a complete layer of 1708, then 8" 1708 scrap (from the cutoff) in the top, then a 12" 1708 on each side joined into the corners and finally 2 layers of 8oz mat in the top.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/IMG_2807.JPG)
Then we made one of the fuel tank stringers
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/IMG_2808.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/IMG_2809.JPG)
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Awesome, Rick! I've often wondered how you guys went about building new foam stringers from scratch. Now I know...looking good!
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Awesome job on both the transom and the new stringers :thumright: glad to see you use a poly tank...when I rebuilt mine I used a 55 gal poly tank and so far am very pleased :)
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Merry Christmas everyone - had a few minutes free before the festivites start here so I went out to see how the stringers ended up.
Awesome, Rick! I've often wondered how you guys went about building new foam stringers from scratch. Now I know...looking good!
Not sure how everyone else does it but this worked for me. There are a lot of resources out there to learn from like Classic Mako and Bateau2.com to name a couple.
I will have to lay at least 2 more layers of 1708 to build up the sidewall thickness. Will do that in the boat.
I popped the stringers out of the forms - VERY easy when you use visquene. Unfasten the visquene, loosen up the stringer in the form (even the 90 degree stringer was easy to do this - hint - BIG round fillets in corners) and then lift the whole stringer out.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/IMG_2813.JPG)
Peel the visquene off the stringer
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/IMG_2814.JPG)
This is the stringer with the 90 degree and angled side - hard to see the angles. Came out nice though.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/IMG_2815.JPG)
Here is the double angled stringer - the thin stuff on the end that looks like visquene is actually resin.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/IMG_2810.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/IMG_2811.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/IMG_2812.JPG)
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Rick that looks GREAT! When you put the stringer in the boat will you trim the sides to the shape of the hull or do you have another plan? What are you going to do to keep the heights even? Really nice progress, I hope you see it,( the whole forest/tree thing)..
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Thanks all.
Hi Dave,
The technical stuff starts soon - like connecting the stringers, keeping them all even. I did measure down from the cap to each stringer top before I took the old out so that is a starting point. I would like to raise the floor level an inch anyway to help figure out the self-bailing.
I think I will build the tank box first and keep that all the same flatness by building it upside down outside the boat. Then figure out the fore and aft from there. At this point in time the stringers walls are maybe 1/16" thick so mitering them should be easy.
I hope to get all the pieces of the puzzle done and then start assembling them.
I'm definitely learning all the way through, since I've never done this extent of rebuild before.
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At 1/16 thick the fitting should go fast. I wondered about the plan for fitting because it appears as though the height in the stern is considerably less then in the bow and you laid up those nice even stringers. Will you foam once glassed in?
Getting the heights from pre-marked spots is the way to go. I have a habit of forgetting little details like marking stuff before I take it apart :oops:, with that nice waterline still intact it would be no trouble transferring the heights to the inside of the hull .. I did it once with a BIG home built pair of calipers and as long as I kept the level on it both fore/aft and athwartships it went ok..Before I figured that out things were a tad off :oops: !
A buddy recommended a laser pointer taped on a 6 inch level as a good backwoods way of shooting heights around when the string gets in the way.. Necessity is the mother of invention.. Or is it just a mother? :mrgreen:
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At 1/16 thick the fitting should go fast. I wondered about the plan for fitting because it appears as though the height in the stern is considerably less then in the bow and you laid up those nice even stringers. Will you foam once glassed in?
Just the opposite, but you're right. cutting the stringers should be easy.
Getting the heights from pre-marked spots is the way to go. I have a habit of forgetting little details like marking stuff before I take it apart :oops:,
Been there - called learning, maybe the hard way though.
with that nice waterline still intact it would be no trouble transferring the heights to the inside of the hull .. I did it once with a BIG home built pair of calipers and as long as I kept the level on it both fore/aft and athwartships it went ok..Before I figured that out things were a tad off :oops: !
The waterline is not quite how she sits in the water though - I'll have to stick with the measurements I already have.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/68boat_afloat2.JPG)
A buddy recommended a laser pointer taped on a 6 inch level as a good backwoods way of shooting heights around when the string gets in the way.. Necessity is the mother of invention.. Or is it just a mother? :mrgreen:
Good idea - always need another tool in the toolbox. In this instance I think a piece of wood (or multiples) might be the way to go. A string would work too.
Oh, almost forgot - yes I'll be foaming them.
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By looking at your work one would guess that you have done this before :thumright: Those stringers look great..
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DB...great idea by your friend on the "mother of invention" tool.
Nice work Fearless Leader :thumright:
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By looking at your work one would guess that you have done this before :thumright: Those stringers look great..
Nope - nothing of this scale. "White knuckling it" plus getting some good tips from the Master Rebuilders here and the WWW.
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Yeah the www can do wonders :lol: I took a lot of ideas from boatbuildercentral...they had some good tutorials :thumright: still it looks great :thumright:
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I have a post over there for ideas right now. Good guys there.
So anyway, I'm getting the pieces of the puzzle together and now need to figure out the exact stringer layout. I had 3 stringers as seen in one of the pics above. but I don't think I can use 3 anymore due to the tank.
The following drawing is what the thought is
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e19/rkins/2012%20170%20Rebuild/stringers2.png)
I know that I need continuous longetudinal stringers for strength and I think I can fit 2 in.
The stringers I made are 5.5" wide at the top and about 9" wide at the bottom and are roughly 11-12 inches deep. I would like to raise the floor an inch or two to facilitate self bailing - as she sits right now (see pic posted a few ago) the scuppers are under water at rest. Plus I'll need that height to accomodate the new tank.
The drawing shows that the chine width at the transom is 63" and it starts narrowing and at the front of the tank is 55".
If I move the stringers in from the outside 14" (outside stringer top measurement) I think I can can get about 135" of stringer before they disappear into the hull. This unfortunately runs through the tank so here is my question.
At the top of the drawing you can see the profile of the stringers and the profile of the tank. I need to notch the tank a couple inches into each stringer to allow this to work - will that still give me good strength? Thinking I will glass the cutouts back in, inversed as a ledge.
I will use the 90 degree stringers as bulkheads for and aft of the tank.
I think I supplied enough pics to give you a good idea of how she sits in the water, the old stringers and drawings to help you visualize the plan.
The console back edge was 64" from the transom so that is where I started the back of the tank - might move it forward 2 more inches to allow the pie cover for the fuel feed and guage to be inside the console flooring.
Any thoughts?
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Rick,
You'll be fine on notching the stringers to accept the tank width, as, given the size of your stringers, you aren't removing that much material.
Most definitely glass back over the notches, just make sure that you cut the notches big enough so that when you re-glass, the tank will still fit...
You wouldn't believe the amount of "notching" we used to have to do at Stamas. Bell housings, fuel coolers, starter motors, dip stick tubes, you name it...
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I need to notch the tank a couple inches into each stringer to allow this to work - will that still give me good strength? Thinking I will glass the cutouts back in, inversed as a ledge.
I see no structural reason not to do it that way. The stringers also support the tank in many boat designs so why is yours different. If you support the tank on the sides and bottom, it (stringer support in that area) should be just as strong, maybe stronger. Using a poly tank, you can foam that sucker in and it becomes part of the hull support system. It's a 170, not Miss Budweiser.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDOHp2VX-xU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDOHp2VX-xU)
SB beat me to it :thumright:
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Must be the Maker's, CB... :wink: :wink:
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Maker's is good.
Per the diagram...the stringers will be notched nearly in half.
Let's all sleep on this.
And put our head's together manana.
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That Maker's 47 is a bit stronger than the usual one and compliments my ever aging reflexes SB. If I was a gunfighter, I'd be on Boot Hill by now. :mrgreen:
As far as the stringer section goes, I'm no boat builder but I do remember a few (very few) concepts of forces acting upon objects.
Visualize the 170 hull as completely flat like a sheet of plywood or a piece of paper. Using a sheet of paper, place it on a table and observe the forces acting on it. The big one is gravity pushing it down on the table and the opposing force is the medium(wood) that supports the paper. Now slide the paper toward the edge of the table so that a section cantilevers over the edge. The composition of the paper (material, thickness) will allow the paper to resist a turning (bending) moment up to a point. As you continue to slide the paper over the edge, the downward force of gravity (which remains constant) will over come the upward force of the medium (no longer the density of wood but of air) and the paper will succumb to that bending moment.
Now, fold the sheet in half, long ways, so as to create a crease (keel) down the middle and open the paper. Now slide it over the edge with the "hull" perpendicular to the edge of the desk and notice how much further the sheet extends until it can no longer resist that bending moment. Continue to add creases to the paper on each side of and parallel to, the original "keel" crease and try again. These additional creases along with the original "keel" crease redirect/distribute the forces that act on the paper exactly like the stringers and keel in your hull. The size of the stringer(s) as it runs parallel to the keel can be wider to reduce the number needed or smaller if one preferred to distribute the forces acting on the hull more evenly for some engineered reason. As you(Rick) stated, the stringers stiffen the hull helping to resist bending moments and as SB stated, they (stringers) can also have multiple purposes such as bulkhead, engine, fuel tank, generator mounting surfaces and even wiring support :wink:. Even with all that, the thing they do the best in your small hull is support the deck, which when connected to the stringers adds even greater resistance to these bending moments we often refer to as hull flex.
As SB stated, you need you concentrate on providing support and clearance for the tank itself.
After all, your not trying to act like Hugo Vihlen are you?
Good luck.
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Yup I agree and the decking will help stiffen it up. I need to make sure to adequately support the decking with cross members so there will not be much flex in the floor. Distance between tops of the stringers appears to be 23" going down the center and 14 on sides.
Look at the notches in the stringers on this Seacraft - can definitely see the platform for the deck though.
(http://gallery.bateau2.com/albums/userpics/12155/normal_seacraft23_shine_003.jpg)
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The good news is there will only be a small amount of material removed. Something to consider is the expansion of the poly tank. Maybe allow 3/8th's per side where it fits the notches?
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Scott, my experience with roto-molded tanks is that they expand in the "unsupported" areas, i.e. the tops, bottoms, and sides, basically in the center of those areas. The corners, which are basically the dimensions of the tank, remain the same. This expansion is not the same as foam expansion, which can actually break stringers and bulkheads.
Typically we like to leave 1/2" on all sides of the tank to allow for expansion. On the same token, by CFR requirements, a tank must not be able to move more than 1/4" in any direction in regards to the the mounting surface.
What one doesn't want to have is a situation where the tank, regardless of the material, is force fit into the tank compartment...
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I'll toss my 2 pennies in here :) I assume that you are going to put some type of floor under the tank that will let water or stuff pass under it, that being said, if you are going to add a front and rear bulkhead where the tank is and it looks like your stringers will be cut less than half for the tank notch,and it looks like the depth of the notches will be 4 inches or less, my outlook would be to double the glass on the notches put in a floor for the tank bottom to sit on(rubber strips), bulkheads(1/2 inch glass covered ac fir) to keep everything in place and add structure, then foam under the 2 outside angle bottoms..that should support the tank well and your stringers should still be plenty strong :thumright:does this sound feasable... I sometimes look at stuff to simply and might miss something :shock: Thought of this after I posted it, your stringers will still be the full width on the bottom so I can see no reason to think there would be a loss of structural support for the hull, as hull, stringer and floor will all become one :scratch:
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You asked for thoughts, so...
To follow Bob and Gary's line of thinking....the only place you'd need to be concerned with tank expansion is on the "fat" parts of the tank. Supporting the tank from the bottom as Gary said, with bulkheads on the ends...and set it in place with foam per each corner, as Chris did on mine. As Bob pointed out, the corners won't expand. Then chock it on top.
If you were to foam below the tank...and here's the empirical question...per the schematic, is it possible the expanding "fat" portion of the bottom of the tank could impact (potentially damage) the base of the stringers via the foam?
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Scott,
I think we are looking at 2 different things here. The expansion of any tank is due to the fuel inside of it. If it can't find a means of "growing" via the sides or the bottom of the tank, it will simply expand towards the area of least resistance, the top of the tank. It's not like foam expansion, because of it's force and density, to where it WIIL move irresistable forces, i.e. stringers and b/heads. It's a little bit of expansion in the overall, so I think we are...making a mountain out of a mole hill... :wink: :wink:
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I agree with gman, a cradle fit to the tank shape and glassed into the notches would be the way id go. I wouldnt bother with the foam, ply with biax on both sides will be strong enough to hold 180+ lbs. 28 gal? especially tabbed into stringers and bulkheads. I ran a full length of pvc from bulkhead to bulkhead under the tank "floor" in mine. Depending which end your pickup is on, you might consider making one end of the tank floor higher than the other to keep that pickup wet..
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Scott,
I think we are looking at 2 different things here. The expansion of any tank is due to the fuel inside of it. If it can't find a means of "growing" via the sides or the bottom of the tank, it will simply expand towards the area of least resistance, the top of the tank. It's not like foam expansion, because of it's force and density, to where it WIIL move irresistable forces, i.e. stringers and b/heads. It's a little bit of expansion in the overall, so I think we are...making a mountain out of a mole hill... :wink: :wink:
Gotcha.
It never hurts to consider "what ifs". We thought we had everything covered....then two weeks later...."Why didn't we think of that?"
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It never hurts to consider "what ifs". We thought we had everything covered....then two weeks later...."Why didn't we think of that?"
Ditto on that...
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Moeller recommends 3% room for expansion. Guess I'll tackle that calc when I get there. The bottom of the tank has some round standoffs - I'll get some better pics. I think the suggestions are all spot on, thanks.
I'm connecting stringers together right now and making more.
Another thing to ponder is where to position the tank - the old sat under the console so there was a 16x24 footprint - this has a 28x55 footprint. I am not adding any setback for the engine so the boat should sit the same. I have initially set the back of the new tank at where the back of the console started but now I'm thinking I should slide it back a foot. The hull starts the downward transition into the prow as it goes forward right about where it sits right now - might be easier to make a platform if I slide it aft.
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Sliding it back wouldn't be a bad thing, this is what I see , your old tank had a small footprint, weight centered in a 16x24 area, new tank is longer, wider and not as tall, so weight is distributed over a larger area..I would look at placing the tank where I would have a pie hole over the pick-up and it would be under the console.The hose hook-up would have acccess under a pie cover in front of the console, odds are if there is a problem at sometime it will be the pick-up or sender, and it's more protected..plus if you slide it back your notches might not be as much..My tank had a drop to the rear built-in so I didn't have to build it into the floor, so I was lucky :thumright:
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Sliding it back wouldn't be a bad thing, ...I would look at placing the tank where I would have a pie hole over the pick-up and it would be under the console. The hose hook-up would have acccess under a pie cover in front of the console, odds are if there is a problem at sometime it will be the pick-up or sender, and it's more protected..plus if you slide it back your notches might not be as much..My tank had a drop to the rear built-in so I didn't have to build it into the floor, so I was lucky :thumright:
I put the back of the tank at the back of the console for that very reason but I think I need to figure out a better way and slide it back and have the pie under the helm seat. If I do that I may be able to keep the fill and vent hoses in the console instead of figuring out a way to route them to the side of the boat.
Keep the thinking comin' though...
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If I do that I may be able to keep the fill and vent hoses in the console instead of figuring out a way to route them to the side of the boat.
I beleive you will regret putting the fill and vent on the console.
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I have to agree with blue agave on this one, I have a tendency to "overfill" :oops: and having gas on my floor isn't my idea of a fun job to clean..Is it possible to run the fill and vent hoses under the floor to the starboard side and then up to the cap and side hull, then make a fglass 3 sided box to cover the hoses, sort of like the older 222's that did not have liners.. :scratch: just a thought and we all know that can be dangerous :lol:
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I beleive you will regret putting the fill and vent on the console.
That's where they are now.
The beauty of these small tanks is that when you premix every 12gal = 1 qt of oil. So I always fill by 6 or 12s - never over fill.
If I was going to run it out to the side of the boat the liner is going to cause some re-routing around the pole storage boxes and such. Maybe I can run it up under the casting deck and out to the side (port) but it would be up around the casting deck.
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sounds like a possiblity :thumright:
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That's where they are now.
That's the beauty of a complete rebuild, one can improve on the 35+ year old engineering. Rick, you're quite the craftsman, I'm sure you will figure something out. Just think, when you pull up to the pump you will not have to climb in & out of the boat to gas up. That only is worth it's weight in gold.
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I don't have a horse in this race, but I have to agree with gman and blue agave. I think the benefits of adding the fill and vent on the deck will far outweigh the benefits of putting it in the console. Just my opinion...you're doing a great job BTW.
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I'm with the boys.
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I'm with the boys.
Me too, i think the reward in the long run will be worth the trouble now :salut:
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Having had it both ways let me say this.
It was nice having someone pass me the nozzle and return it to the pump. Doesn't always happen that way though.
Climbing in and out, in my case was not a problem but still an additional chore. K.I.S.S.
Thing is this. You already are doing the console fill so you know first hand if it is troublesome or not. :idea:
You also know filling from the side (with the 230).
Spilling gas at the BP ain't no big deal. Spilling gas at a marina could lead to heartburn.
Better on your deck than in the water but...
Fillin' without spillin' ain't that hard, still.....
You've had it both ways, what works best for you? Remember, you're the one filling the tank and routing the fill.
If life is anything, it's a compromise.
Good luck.
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Having had it both ways let me say this.
It was nice having someone pass me the nozzle and return it to the pump. Doesn't always happen that way though.
Climbing in and out, in my case was not a problem but still an additional chore. K.I.S.S.
Thing is this. You already are doing the console fill so you know first hand if it is troublesome or not. :idea:
You also know filling from the side (with the 230).
Spilling gas at the BP ain't no big deal. Spilling gas at a marina could lead to heartburn.
Better on your deck than in the water but...
Fillin' without spillin' ain't that hard, still.....
You've had it both ways, what works best for you? Remember, you're the one filling the tank and routing the fill.
If life is anything, it's a compromise.
Good luck.
CB, good thinking.
But getting to the nitty-gritty....if you were rebuilding a 170...would you choose gunnel or console fill?
Loaded question....but Rick says he wants honest input.
To me....since we're cutting the stringers....may as well make some improvements.
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My 2 cents on the fill and vent... I would do go on the gunnel. The fill and vent were in the console on mine and the fumes alone drove me nuts, not to mention the mess from overfilling.
On another note, those stringers look awesome! Are you going to foam them before or after you put them in?
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But getting to the nitty-gritty....if you were rebuilding a 170...would you choose gunnel or console fill?
Having actually had both, I prefer the gunnel fill for the exact reasons I listed.
One handed operational ability (for us friendless types), less physical work required for access (great reason for old guys) and the innate ability not to spill fuel all over myself.
Loaded question....but Rick says he wants honest input.
Agreed :thumleft: so....
If I were rebuilding or had rebuilt a 170, I would tend to offer input on how I accomplished getting the fill over to the gunnel while allowing the rod storage. I'm not sure how this is done but I'd bet there are members having faced this question who do.
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I was thinking about that earlier Bob.
On most of our boats, it is a "box" configuration built into the liner.
Rick, for kicks and giggles, how about posting some pics of the starboard side forward, hull and gunnel cap.
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On another note, those stringers look awesome! Are you going to foam them before or after you put them in?
Thanks - hope they work :lol:
I will fill them with foam. Have a lot more to do before I get there though.
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I was thinking about that earlier Bob.
On most of our boats, it is a "box" configuration built into the liner.
Rick, for kicks and giggles, how about posting some pics of the starboard side forward, hull and gunnel cap.
Look on page 29 and 30 - does that help? http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showgallery.php?ppuser=68&cat=500&page=29
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CB, good thinking.
But getting to the nitty-gritty....if you were rebuilding a 170...would you choose gunnel or console fill?
Loaded question....but Rick says he wants honest input.
To me....since we're cutting the stringers....may as well make some improvements.
I didn't say it had to be honest :P
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Spent some time putting a couple stringer sections together. Cut one edge square as best as we could and then inserted the next section edge inside the cut one with a little spacer under it a few feet out, and traced the edge and cut it.
Then we had some unequal lam where they joined so we drilled some pilot holes and then screwed the stringers to the plywood to keep them close. Then I lam'd some 3" 1.5oz and 6" 1708 to join them - I wanted to do one more layer of 12" 1708 but my screw was in the way :oops: :oops: :oops:.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/IMG_28191.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=18660&title=img-28191&cat=646)
Today I unscrewed it and scruffed it up inside for the next layer. I then used the form to brace the joined sections so I could grind down the outside knowing I will need to add more glass once in the boat. I probably need to add a layer of 1800 or 1808 to get that biaxle strength. Anyway, the visquene leaves a semi-ragged surface because you can't get the wrinkles out as you're rolling and such. The trade off is that it's VERY easy to get out of the mold and is easy to grind down with 40 grit flap.
Ground the outside and then flipped it and lam'd the inside and put it up in the boat. Still need to add another 3ft to the end of it to be complete.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/IMG_2820.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=18661&title=img-2820&cat=646)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/IMG_2821.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=18662&title=img-2821&cat=646)
I lam'd up another stringer today and need to make one more. If anyone locally wants these forms let me know. Otherwise if you want to make the forms - the inside top is 5.5" across and I cut 15 degree angles on the sides of the top piece and brad nailed the 12" sides to the top. I then added bracing on the ends to keep it in form. The other form I made one side @ 15 and one side at 90. If I had to do this all over I would make a 15' form and then I only have to make 2 of the stringers instead of 5. s:idea: :idea: :idea:
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:thumright: :thumright:
Back to the gunnel fill....on page 30 there is a pic of the console removed....the tank is still there.
Looking at the forward port hull side....is there a little room between the front of the rodholder insert and the casting deck?
If so, that seems a logical spot.
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Nope - the liner is almost laying on the hull at that exact point. I think the best approach is try to snake it just a little forward of that.
It has to be on the port side though - see the orientation of the fill tube?
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/IMG_27951.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=18663&title=img-27951&cat=646)
Have to wait and see though.
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Gotcha. Reckon you could go up through the casting deck where you're talking about....then you'd just have a short cover to build.
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No cover - slide it up between the liner and the hull. :cheers:
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Super duper :cheers:
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I am late to the "fuel fill and vent location" party, so....
Gunnel mount!!! My vote!
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Gunnel mount!!!!! Even Bridget at less than 5' can fill ours from the ground! Oops did I really say that !!! :wink:
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Gunnel mount!!!!! Even Bridget at less than 5' can fill ours from the ground! Oops did I really say that !!! :wink:
Proof's in the pudding right there Lewis!
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Hey Rickk, I don't know if you remember this thread or not but Tim had some pretty good ideas about the bulkheads and tank supports.
viewtopic.php?t=981 (http://classicaquasport.com/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?t=981)
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:mybosssucks:Here is the bottom of the tank - has some what I would call "feet" down the center of it.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/IMG_2823.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=18665&title=img-2823&cat=646)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/IMG_2822.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=18664&title=img-2822&cat=646)
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How many of those "feet" or bumps are there?
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Two - I shot a pic of both. They're at about the 1/3 points in from each end.
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Cool 8) , looks like all you will need to do is build support for the angled sides when installing it...fuel fill on the port side would be a plus for me, as the tow vehicle fill is on the drivers side, so any time I have to fill both, it's fill one then turn around to fill the other :roll: How are the stingers coming?
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Putting some shape and clarity to the rebuild. This was probably the best day I've had since I started in terms of clarifying what I need to do. I am normally a "minds eye" type of guy and can see everything in my mind before I do it - the boat without stringers left me "blind" for some reason.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/IMG_2825.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/IMG_2826.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/IMG_2827.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/IMG_2828.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/IMG_2829.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/IMG_2830.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/IMG_2831.JPG)
Now I can see how the puzzle pieces fit and how much room I have to do it in - WOW. It was really hard for me to actually "see" the room I had around the tank because the hull drops drown. Now it's crystal clear.
I also now know the length of the stringers so I can complete the length of the "shell" that I will start laying full length cloth on to become the stringers.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/IMG_2832.JPG)
I also can now take the measurements to cut the stringers shape to mate to the hull.
May not seem like much to someone reading this but today the goggles finally cleared for me.
This was the last work day for me on the boat for a few weeks - off to the UK again in a couple days.
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Wow thats cool Rick. I was wondering about how you were going to project lines for the floor and stringers.... I had laser lines in mind but duh the strings are a simpler way to go! Looks like you can rais your fuel tank up off the bottom a bit!
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The strings are the top of the stringers and I raised them 1" from what they were originally. Yeah I seem to have more than enough room for the tank now.
Easy to see now.
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Those strings got it done, good application.
I'm with Bruce, chock it up a bit where the tank hits the hull, you'll have plenty of flow/breathing under there.
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Amazing how much easier it is to see all this now. I wasn't sure before but now I see that I will have to build a cradle for the tank and can put a drain under it.
One day at a time. :salut:
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Amazing what a few strings ran for outlines really defines the shape of things to come :thumright: Brilliant if you ask me :cheers: You can really see the area for the tank and how much room you have and it allows you to play with the placement of things...WELL DONE :salut:
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Nice job Rick!! Simple and gave you all the info you need!
Now give me some wire...
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Amazing what a few strings ran for outlines really defines the shape of things to come :thumright:
The cross strings are at height measurement points where I measured prior to demo. Really don't need them now 'cept it does show the flooring height. The goal was to figure out the stringers. I notice that the pics don't show where I have to notch the stringers for the tank - I'll get another couple today.
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What's up with the surfboard? :scratch:
I understand the sponge.
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That's a filler for the front keel area. I glassed one side.
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A little update but no pics. I built a 16ft (2x8ft) "form" to hold the stringers in their proper shape. I then built 2 8ft tables and butted them together, set the forms in place and the covered them in visquene. I then dropped the first stringer on top.
I layed 2 full layers of cloth on them - 1x1808 and 1x1708 wet on wet. So now there is 2 full layers and 2 sectioned layers. The 6ft sections are glassed together with 3 layers of cloth and mat at each seam. Should be stout enough.
I ordered the epoxy today for laying a layer of 1708 across the inside of the full hull. Hope to have that done this coming weekend depending on the temps. Then I'll start fitting the stringers, notching the tank in and planning the seat for the tank and then the bulkheads.
Nice to be back in town.
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Sounds like it's coming along nicely..How long are the stringers once finished before you cut to shape to install?
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14'6. I'll need 13'6 - leaves room for the cut twice measure once or is it.... :wink:
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Way to think ahead :salut:
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14'6. I'll need 13'6 - leaves room for the cut twice measure once or is it.... :wink:
Yeah, that's it! :wink: :wink:
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I ordered in some epoxy to give the bare hull some strength and started working on laying half of it up.
It took about half a day to do any last minute grinding and then cut all the pieces of cloth in advance.
Since 1708 sucks at going over even the smoothest bends without air pockets, my plan was a to mix some thickened epoxy aka "putty" (cabosil and chopped strand) and pull a nice wide gentle fillet in along the chine and fill some of the sharp area of the keel. I also wanted to fill the strakes to allow for a smooth transition across the bottom of the hull for the new glass. I also wanted to lay a strip of 6" along the chine and a 8" plus 12" in the keel from transom to top of bow.
This was the first time I worked with epoxy so I wasn't real sure how much working time I had using slow hardener - temp was about 70ish.
We mixed up what we though was enough putty and got through the chine, the keel area and about half of the strake. Twitching because of the working time unknown we quickly mixed up another 2 qt mix - thicker this time. Finished filling the strakes and filled some of the inconsistencies along the hull bottom with what was left. The putty was trying to slide out of the strake so for the next 30 minutes I fussed with that and I could tell that the resin was starting to firm up (or so i thought anyway).
So we started the mixing process of the 2:1 resin - would need about 3x3qt batches (2oz per sqft). We started laying in the keel first - went in ok and my thought process was to lay that first and then everything would lay over that and tie it all together. The intention was good but boy was that a mistake in planning. Made it an ice rink in the hull. Made laying everything else dangerous - for the next guy - lay the keel last. I don't think it matters whether the layers are on top or bottom, it's the layers that count. I was lamming the chine and stepped in the wrong place and wham, I was on my back with road rash on an arm in an instant - WOW.
What was amazing to me was the working time of the slow hardener in cooler temps. We started at 3:37p and finished at 6:30p - I used the same roller sleeve the whole time! I was also surprised at how the wet out was different with the epoxy vs the poly. Poly is much easier. Plan a little more than 2oz/sqft on the epoxy.
Obviously I was pre-occupied so I only have "after" pics. The sun was starting to go down so the pics aren't that good. 3 layers in the chine and 3 in the keel so far.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG0604.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=18666&title=cimg0604&cat=646)
The specs of the hardener said if using it in 70 or under "extended" curing times were possible - 18 hours later it was still tacky and even wet in some places. The slow hardener is for 80+ temps and then you get an hour of working time. This stuff should be hard by next weekend since we're supposed to be in the 40s and 50s for the lows. To help heat it up we dropped the tarp, which was finally starting to get torn, down and clamped it to the hull - should raise the temps nicely. Maybe the slow cure is a good thing. Next weekend I will finish the hull layer.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG0606.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=18667&title=cimg0606&cat=646)
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Thats one thing about epoxy, you can just keep laying more on and more on. It does wet out completely different than poly. Sometimes I wonder if you can ever thicken it too much. If you didn't have to work tomorrow you could just go and lam more right on what you did today. Once cured it will be so much stronger you will never have to worry about it again. You should get some medium hardener to make your fillets with so once you get them right you can go ahead and lam right over them without worrying about them continuing to flow. It is looking really nice!!!!!
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Couple of more things! Don't let that tarp fall down onto the tacky or still wet spots! It will stick and you might be able to grind it off next week!!!! I always take a small amount of neat epoxy and put it in a mixing cup just to check if it is curing correctly or not. That way you don't have to climb in to check it so often.
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Rick, when I laid my hull and floor last winter I used medium hardner while the temps were between 45 and 60 degrees..it would stay wet for about 1-3 hours depending on how much light I had on it.( multiple haligen work lights).
It would be hard by the next morning, I never left the lights on overnight..I tried to do a wet on wet lay-up on my floor and like you I went skating :oops: and had to take the top layer off and wait till it dried overnight then sand, wipe with acetone then start the next layer..1708 does soak up some product :shock: If your not going to be able to do anything till next weekend you should be fine..It will probably be hard by Monday evening :thumright: keep us posted
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Couple of more things! Don't let that tarp fall down onto the tacky or still wet spots! It will stick and you might be able to grind it off next week!!!! I always take a small amount of neat epoxy and put it in a mixing cup just to check if it is curing correctly or not. That way you don't have to climb in to check it so often.
I can just reach over the transom and side to check the tackiness. I'm not climbing into the boat, I don't want to move the hull sides until it's totally cured - trying to stiffen that up. We're not expecting any rain so the tarp should be fine clamped as it is.
The next half will be much easier since the keel area is done. I can work it like it's supposed to be done without that "feeling" of sliding and falling again. I was using a roller on an extension pole too - still too dangerous. Almost wish I had a scaffold above the boat.
I think I will make up the putty extra thick and lay it in an hour before I start the cloth lamming. Supposed to be 60s for lows and highs in the upper 70s by this weekend. :cheers:
It will be nice to get a strong substrate to start building on top of. Once I can get the stringers cut to fit and then mark out the fuel tank notches I'll feel like I'm getting somewhere.
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Looking clean :salut:
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Lam was rock hard tonight. :cheers:
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Just a reminder, adhesive (epoxy or poly) will cure at a faster rate in a cup than wetted out on glass over a large area...Lewis!
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Understood Bob, my point was that if it cures in the cup it will eventually cure in the lam. That time can be very extended.
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Rick
:thumright: :salut:
I can only imagine the amount of work involved in doing a complete rebuild in the driveway at home.
Bill
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Not much to report on - I ground out the hull in the affected areas yesterday morning and I must say that epoxy seems to grind much easier than poly, for me anyway. Didn't take very long to smooth out any areas I was going to overlap. Nice.
I had everything trimmed and ready to be lam'd by 1030A.
I started laying in the thick fillets along the chine and filling in the strake and then let it sit for a while. That "while" was where the sun came up and started cooking.
Not trying in the least to rub it in on anyone but boy was it hot out, especially in the hull. Almost passed out. Had to take some breaks and drown myself in water inside and out - the heat coming out of the hull was crazy. Didn't have the tarp up to shield the sun. Won't do that again.
Anyway, got the port side done Saturday and then Sunday morning I scruffed a little (the glass was still not 100% cured) and then layed in the fill piece that will help divert any water from the deep part of the hull. Layed in a big fillet of putty to fill in the imperfections of the angles I had to cut along the piece and pressed the piece into the putty. Then I lam'd a piece of 1708 over the filler.
Weird thing was that I thought I had most of the "drop of the hull" filled in with the filler piece (the hull on these boats drops down in the keel area as the hull goes forward, thus allowing pooling of water even when on the trailer - see Hefner topic) but as it started to cure some of the resin started pooling up in the 1ft area aft of the filler. Sorry it is hard to see in the pic - look at the keel forward. This is happening with the trailer jacked up for normal drainage, so anyone thinking of filling this area in, like Eugene did on Hefners, might want to put a couple pieces in at different angles to run that water farther to the aft.
I will have to make sure I design to allow water that might get into the area, to drain out.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0609.JPG)
Looks like I have a couple areas that are a little dry in the lam, just a couple and overall the hull will still be fantastically stronger than it was without this layer of epoxy on it. I have 3 layers of 1708 in the chines and 4 in the keel - ought to be strong.
Next weekend I can start laying lines again, marking the stringers and scribing them in - going to have the tarp back up for sure. My neck might stop glowing from the sunburn by then :wink:
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Looks good Rick, are you going to add a piece up front to build it up a little more or leave it as is?
I know you must have been heating up in the hull working that epoxy, amazing how it builds up a little heat :!: I was lucky enough when doing mine that one of my neighbors was selling a temp shelter that had walls and ends and I did mine under that..Just had to wear a respirator when working the epoxy :salut:
With 3 layers all over and 4 on the keel, you will have a strong hull..
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Wow! No wonder you guys have boats thatlook showroom beautiful. Can't wait to see her finished.
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Relief thats done huh?! Wadja make the bow eye backer out of?
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Relief thats done huh?! Wadja make the bow eye backer out of?
Hi Chris,
I used the old balsa (some kind of light weight wood) that came out of it. Trimmed it down to remove all the old rot. It'll work with an aluminum backer. Coated it with epoxy.
Oh and yes, I'm glad that is done. Have a good subsurface to start with now - I think it was worth the extra $350. New tarp will go up this weekend. :cheers:
Hey, how long does it take for the buckets to harden enough to be cracked and cleaned - seems to take a week or so. Maybe with epoxy you need to use the paper ones?
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Oh and yes, I'm glad that is done. Have a good subsurface to start with now - I think it was worth the extra $350. New tarp will go up this weekend. :cheers:
Hey, how long does it take for the buckets to harden enough to be cracked and cleaned - seems to take a week or so. Maybe with epoxy you need to use the paper ones?
In the sun, a day or two. Really have to make sure to scrape the sides when mixing or youll have some tacky residue stuck in the pot. Never used a paper one, they only have marks on the outside...
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are you going to add a piece up front to build it up a little more or leave it as is?
I am not sure. I think I will have to lower the front of the hull (or maybe not), and add some water to the hull and see where it pools up. I'm sure I'll have to add the same thing Eugene added to the FB.
With 3 layers all over and 4 on the keel, you will have a strong hull..
One layer in the hull, 3 in the chine and 4 in the keel. A good substrate to build upon. :salut:
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I came home the other day and there was about 150 gallons of rain in the boat - no leaks :cheers: Have to cut the drain hole one of these days. :roll:
Also, as I was bailing the boat out I learned how the water pooled aft of the filler I put in the front of the boat - it doesn't :cheers: I will still put in a drain mechanism to the aft though.
This weekend was another huge milestone for me - I've been dinking around on this boat, building this and that and lam'ing this and that and it still looked (and felt) like I was not making any forward progress. Today I got these cut in
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0610.JPG)
Of course it was quite a job and took two days (boy is my neck red again, Winds were blowing about 30 mph gusts so we couldn't put up the tarp - I had a hat on but of course no sunscreen and I was looking down all the time - thank god for aloe).
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0615.JPG)
The scribing was good and they are within an 1/8" of the height I planned. These stringers are sitting in the hull without any tacking - a beautiful thing for a 12 degree hull (more slope up front).
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0616.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=6643&title=cimg0616&cat=646)
For the builders that want to know what thickness x layers of glass is: Here is the tops of my stringers, 3 layers of 1708, 1 of 1808 and then a layer of some 1/16" mat (no clue what weight, had it laying around) on the very inside.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0618.JPG)
Here are the sides of the stringers - 3 layers of 1708 and 1 of 1808 - shy of a 1/4".
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0619.JPG)
Should be pretty stout - will be lam'd into the hull with 3 layers of 1708 - 4, 6 & 8" - things will be a 1/2" thick at the bottom. :shock:
Now I need to build a cradle to lock these things in and then start working the fuel tank notch, support and install. Another weekend....
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The stringers look great Rick :thumright: , at 1/4 inch thick they are thicker than mine where from the factory..STOUT will be an under-statement 8)
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Thanks Gman - boat may be ready for a James Bond movie when done :wink:
Just glad to be making visible progress - gotta keep the sense of accomplishment going....
My arms are sore from pushing that jigsaw through that much glass, especially the first stringer - cut everything too long intentionally on the first one and then trimmed it in slowly. 13 ft stringers - each time you trim it down 1/4" through 1/4" stock it takes a while and a lot of force. Glad to be done.
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It seems like no matter how much work you do, nobody notices until theres paint on it!
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It seems like no matter how much work you do, nobody notices until theres paint on it!
I'd rather look at the guts than the finish...that little girl is gonna be a brick house in a chop.
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Looking Good! :salut:
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Rick, let me tell you, when you have stringer forms that measure 1/4"...damn, after glassing and foam filling, you could run her into a brick wall and she'd just ask for more! Excellent, bud!
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Looking good Rick! She's gonna be a stout little boat!
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Wow Rick, those are very impressive! You have set the bar pretty high so far with the cleanliness of your build. It looks picture perfect.
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Thanks Cally - I only get one shot at this so....
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Looks good Rick :thumleft: You have some CCP stringers in that girl :thumright:
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Thanks John, only get stronger from here.
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Got a little more done today - again too windy to put up the tarp - sun was smoking.
So I made the braces to keep the stringers where I wanted them
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0620.JPG)
The inside is the critical spacing
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0621.JPG)
The front brace was a lot of finagling, again the inside is the critical spacing
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0622.JPG)
Laid the fuel tank on top and marked the places to cut it in - from the back
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0627.JPG)
From the front
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0626.JPG)
I decided to start the fuel tank at the back of the console and let it run forward . I figured that with all the batteries right above the back portion it should act like it used to. We took the plunge.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0628.JPG)
Next step is to create the fill pieces to enclose the notch. Also need to build a seat for the tank - from the back.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0629.JPG)
From the front
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0631.JPG)
I got overheated and had to go chill for a while. Then we decided to drill the drain hole in the transom so I don't have to bail 150 gals of water again. Drilled it and then sealed it with one coat of epoxy. Will sand that and put another coat on it. The thickness of the transom core was amazing - at least to me
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0632.JPG)
The dark part to the right is the transom glass before the core - 3/4", then the 1.5" of wood (we needed to drill all of this in 3 shots so the core got damaged as we pryed it from the hole saw. The portion to the left is the lams on the inside of the transom. Total, almost 3" thick at the bottom of the hull. :shock:
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Dang, Rick, you do good work!
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Nice clean and good progress Rick
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so rick, with a transom that thick and stringers that beefy, you plan on hanging a 250 or 300 optimax on that transom?
maybe not... but its nice to know you can :thumleft:
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so rick, with a transom that thick and stringers that beefy, you plan on hanging a 250 or 300 optimax on that transom?
maybe not... but its nice to know you can :thumleft:
:lol: - I think I'm max'd at a 115 without sinking. Sitting at idle or the hole shot on these things with a huge motor is not the problem, it's coming off plane where they sink due to the water coming over the back. :shock:
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Today I wanted to build the molds and lam up the filler for the cut-outs in the stringers.
I decided to use one of bulkheads I had lam'd earlier as a mold to make the filler - it has one 90 degree side and a flat top. I just needed to "dam" it off for the ends. When I cut the notches I allowed 3/8" for expansion front to back (I emailed INCA for advice or installation instructions and got no reply - understand that the tank is 12 years old already but.... just saying) so I used that measurement and marked the mold. I used some scrap Jasper board and cut them to fit. I'll show you one end of the dams. My intention was to build the dams with big fillets of poly so the cloth would bend easier. I started by laying some visquene down and then taped the jasper board on the lines I'd marked and then layed in a big fillet. Not too easy to do in a 5" spot and I only needed the 90 degree side and the bottom but ended up going up the other side just to make it transition right.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0633.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0643.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0636.JPG)
I head out to get a sandwich for my wife and I and waited for it to cure.
I popped them out and this is the dam before I cleaned it up. Before:
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0640.JPG)
After:
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0641.JPG)
I then taped the dam back in
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0644.JPG)
I then lined the entire mold with visquene and started dry cutting the 1708 in - 3 layers. The blue line is 1" more than I need in height so I knew where to stop the resin.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0647.JPG)
This is what one of them looked like in the mold
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0649.JPG)
and out - with visquene still on
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0650.JPG)
and with it peeled off. I will trim it down at least an inch in height and about 2-3 inches in depth. The stuff at the end is a little pile of the paper thin poly resin that was stuck to the visquene that I broke off and left in the corner.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0652.JPG)
Next weekend I'll pull the stringers out and grind the inside down a bit, scribe the fillers in, grind the fillers and then epoxy them in.
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Looking deluxe :salut:
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Looking really nice Rick!!!! Did you see what Joel posted back on bateau about foaming then cutting the sides out?
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Yup. You saw my reply too, right?
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I just now read it!! Thats throwing it right back in their faces! I think your idea will be fine. When you pour have a piece of ply wrapped with plastic to cover the pour holes, as it expands you mash down on it and this gives a nice "sealed edge to the foam and keeps it from going everywhere.
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Actually kind of ticked me off that they just now would give me advice on that part of the rebuild - not GW but Joel. I respect his experience and I realize he's busy but I think he got all wrapped up in me using poly and didn't read the post. I have to stay on my plan, I think it will be plenty strong when I'm done. Might be able to get it glasssed this weekend - have to head out to Huntsville on Sunday, so maybe not.
I also posted on boatdesign.net. I think there was a couple hundred views and not one reply. I would have figured there would be some brainiacs there - guess not. I haven't been back there in a few weeks to see if someone replied - doubt it.
Fiberglass is pretty forgiving.
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Fiberglass is pretty forgiving.
Just like concrete and stucco.
:thumright:
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Rick, FWIW... I say you are all set. That boat is going to be rock solid how you are doing it, and I don't think that the question was missed or the advice after the fact had any malice in it. To be honest I missed the question in there too... :oops: Hell, by the time you glass the flats in around the tank (with the quality you have shown so far) it no one will ever know you did it that way.
Screw it. It's looks awesome! Build on sir, build on! :cheers:
And when you get done, I'll send you a plane ticket to help me on mine... :flower:
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So I got back at it this weekend. Started by cutting the fillers down.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0653.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0654.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0655.JPG)
Cut, ground and dry fit
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0657.JPG)
Dry cut the lam which was to be fillet, 3/4oz tab, 1.5oz tab and then a full cover of 1808 - took a couple hours to cut it all up.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0656.JPG)
Then we took the plunge and put it together - tried a resin board this time which worked super.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0659.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0660.JPG)
Next weekend I'll grind the putty that oozed to the front and get the front/inside ready for a layer of glass. There are some tough curves to get the glass to traverse on the inside though.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0663.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0664.JPG)
Hopefully it'll be strong enough when I'm done.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0665.JPG)
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Rick I like the way you are doing your rebuild. Keeping the original stringer foot print. That keeps the structural design on the hull the same as the designers intended. I’ve often wondered what is going to happen to the hull bottom, when that foot print is changed. The numbers have to change. :thumleft:
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I am going from 3 stringers to 2 though.
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(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0665.JPG)
Mighty FINE Rick!! It would be slick to be able to vacuum bag the glass to the edges of the tank well, that way you'd be able to get a good clean bond on a tight radius.. I see duct tape and release film, if you had old compressor handy to convert to a pump and you'd be in business! If I remember correctly Dirt used an old refrigerator compressor... :salut:
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That shouldn’t make any difference. it’s the width and spacing of the stinger, spreading out the load. If you look at most of the 19-6’s and 222 v hulls. They only had 2 stringers. Their were three in the flat backs, because of having that flat hull bottom. Once they went to the v bottom they went to 2. Why they put 3 in the 170 is a mystery to me. I personally don’t think it was needed. But for some reason they put it in. The numbers on the 19-6 v and the 170 should be very close. The hulls flex should be almost the same. I do know a number of people up this away, used the 170’s to run off shore. AS was told that by their dealers, in this region. So maybe they didn’t want to take a chance of a hull spitting. I know you may not know how far this is, but a friend went out of the Ocean City Md. Inlet one time, heading south. Once the wind came up out of the north, it got so rough, he got half way to gull shoals, which is about 6 miles. He thought he wouldn’t be able to turn around, with out rolling the boat. So He kept going south another 40 miles and went in to the Chincoteague Va. inlet. Then came back up the inland water way after filling up with gas. He told me the waves got so big, it scared the bajesus out of him. So him being a guide and a very experienced waterman. That’s saying something. He also told me, the boat staying together didn’t even cross his mined. That’s why he bought the 17 AS. That’s another reason, you still see so many in the mid Atlantic. I see some as far off shore as I go in my 222ccp, which is 30 miles out.
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The early models were in the "learning mode" and had up to 5 stringers as they learned what was really needed - look at CLM65's FB rebuild - 5 stringers, OldSkool67's '67 - 5 stringers. Mine was 3.
The center stringer I ommitted was running from the prow all the way back to the hull and I had an above floor tank, so the center also helped support that. All different now.
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Stringers everywhere.
Circa 1968 girder style
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/68AS_all_models5_c19691.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=6751&title=68as-all-models5-c19691&cat=500)
Circa 74
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//568/68AS_all_models_brochure3_1974.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=2829&title=as-all-models-brochure3-1974&cat=568)
Drop in style circa 78
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/68AS_Family_Fisherman_Series_broch_20_c19781.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=6750&title=68as-family-fisherman-series-broch-20-c19781&cat=500)
04 style
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//630/medium/04_Catalog_002.jpg)
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my '68 also had 5 stringers, and didn't the flatties also have the above deck fuel tank?
(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a148/recklesabandon727/1968%2022-2%20flatback%20rebuild/IMG_20121015_095032.jpg)
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I just now read it!! Thats throwing it right back in their faces! I think your idea will be fine. When you pour have a piece of ply wrapped with plastic to cover the pour holes, as it expands you mash down on it and this gives a nice "sealed edge to the foam and keeps it from going everywhere.
Lewis, have to disagree with you here. Excess foam as it expands needs to get out of there. "Mash" down on it, and if has a good ways to go before totally kicking off, it's gonna find a means of egress...like against the stringer verticals or even the tops of the stringers.
What we used to do was cut several pieces of cardboard, 3 X 3, little scrapers if you will, and continually scrape the exiting foam from all the holes until the expansion had REALLY slowed down. Once the expansion was complete, and just a little foam was sticking out, shave it flush with the stringer tops, coat it with epoxy...done, and a nice sealed surface...
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good point Bob. I all that expanding foam has to go somewhere or else: POP!
if you just skim across the top/opening as it starts to set up, you'll still be able to get the "seal" of the cured foam.
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Keep in mind, that foam hole doesn't have to look pretty, as a good serious bead of Arjay bonding putty is going to be spread on top of that stringer before the deck/liner in put in place...
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Made little progress this weekend.
Saturday, my buddy Ed helped me cut the first tarp I bought as a shade, up - lasted a few months - and we used it to pad the top and corners of the gantries to buffer the new tarp from the corners and bolts. Then we put a new tarp up. Then we proceeded to drink beer instead of working - :oops: - gotta take a break sometime. :cheers:
Today I ground down the fillers inside and out and layed one more layer of tabbing, 1708 this time, on the inner portion. Even with medium hardener it took hours to kick, so we watched the race, checking on the progress of the glass but it really wasn't along far enough along to flip it over and work on the outer side - always next weekend I guess. The inner is done though.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0667.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0669.JPG)
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we proceeded to drink beer instead of working - - gotta take a break sometime.
And there is something wrong with that :?: :!: :drunken: :drunken: :drunken:
Those stringers look really good. Your glass work is first rate. :salut:
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Got the outside of the stringers done today with the exception of grinding the finished product so it's ready to tab into the boat - will do so in the morning.
I did a little build up to fill in where I had ground out some some air bubbles and then lam'd a 3/4oz across the entire filler and then 1708 across the entire filler too. I hate corners, especially with cloth :x I had some air bubbles until just before the resin started kicking, was hard rolling for like an hour in places. :roll: I took these pics before the resin kicked, so I was a rolling fiend for a while after that.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0670.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0671.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0673.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0674.JPG)
A little scruffing and this part is done.
While the resin was hardening we replaced the bearings on the port side of the 230 trailer - forgot how funky that job was. Anyway, we'll finish the starboard side in the morning, right after I grind down the stringers. That is one check off for the trip to Crystal River :cheers:
We'll put the stringers in the boat and try the fit of the tank tomorrow too. With some of the rounding of the corners in the filler, it might be tight.
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Rick, time to get the tractor out! I mowed my weeds a couple weeks ago, that's whats growing right now...
Nice work, btw... :salut: :salut:
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Yeah, my wife pulled the weeds in the same area you see them now, last week. We'll get them tomorrow - nothing to mow though. If you look in all the surrounding yards there is the same type of weeds growing. :roll:
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My yard is full of those SAME damn weeds...650 miles north :thumbdown:
Rick, you're getting a heck of a job there :thumright:
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Rick, time to get the tractor out! I mowed my weeds a couple weeks ago, that's whats growing right now...
Nice work, btw... :salut: :salut:
Yep,had the tractor out two days ago, had to move 10 inches of snow... :mrgreen: It is greening up on the south side of the house though, spring is coming :cheers: !
What's the plan for the tank cradle Rick?
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Not quite sure yet Dave. I know it has to have a drain in the middle to evac water from forward of the area but that's all I know so far. That's next though.
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Scruffed the glass this morning and then tossed the stringers in the boat and placed the fuel tank to check it out.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0675.JPG)
I'm thinking I'm going to go with 4" PVC, split, for the support of the tank - 3 across bow to stern. 1 from the front area in front of the tank area to the back, aft of the tank area and 2 under the tank, the length of the tank. Should support the tank nicely with the notch in the stringers being the 2 extra supports. The difference in height is 2 1/4 to 3 1/2" from the back to the front so I should be able to get that depth from a 4" piece. Still thinking though.
Still have the left side of my brain working on how I'm going to route rigging back to the engine - trough or not :scratch: . I do not have an enclosed transom so it must be clean. I have hydraulic steering. I do like the chase that they put in Gran's boat but I will need to take it over to the side and come up under the liner and then exit it.
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Looking good Rick. How much room do you have from the top of the doghoue to the bottom of the deck?
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Couple inches
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0628.JPG)
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Have you considered putting the chase in the stringer?
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I have thought of that but not sure how that would help getting the heavy stuff to the aft with an open transom. I will have power, controls and steering to get to the motor - steering and controls are not too bend friendly.
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Since you have an open slate, why not put a couple of small boxes in the corners and glass them in. Just enough for everything to fit and have room for a 4" plate under the boots. My console is just wide enough that it has a hole in the deck at the right rear corner. This is just outside the stringer and all my rigging goes in this one hole. If yours is not that wide you could notch the stringer and let it go across the top. It then follows along and outside the stringer and then at the transom runs up and out onto the deck behind the storage box. I'm not talking big, just enough to where everything is covered and accessible. Glass it to the floor and up to the cap. You could run PVC but not totally necessary. Not sure if you like this, but IMHO it would be far easier to fabricate and still give you the open transom look and not have to deal with the trough or having everything exposed.
This is what mine looks like.
(http://i669.photobucket.com/albums/vv60/Lewis55/Slipaway%20---1984%20Aquasport%20222/slipaway222214.jpg)
(http://i669.photobucket.com/albums/vv60/Lewis55/new%20steering/newsteering004-1.jpg)
(http://i669.photobucket.com/albums/vv60/Lewis55/Slipaway%20---1984%20Aquasport%20222/slipaway222157.jpg)
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Not a bad idea Lew - I do have the 3 or 4" of the liner to add to that, so it might not need much more (I don't have that much room - maybe a couple extra inches). Beauty is I don't have much stuff to run through it. Add that to my left side brain stuff.
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Not a bad idea Lew - I do have the 3 or 4" of the liner to add to that, so it might not need much more (I don't have that much room - maybe a couple extra inches). Beauty is I don't have much stuff to run through it. Add that to my left side brain stuff.
Agree. Those two narrow boxes will be a plus come rigging time.
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A little progress. Cut the supports for the tank.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0676.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0677.JPG)
Then I marked the outline of the stringers, we pulled everything out and I ground around the outlines, where the tank supports will be and also where the bulkheads will attach to the stringers. We then put everything back in and remarked everything.
Tomorrow is a big day, the day I tab the stringers in and hopefully I can get the tank supports glassed in too. Then it's on to the internal bulkheads (fore and aft of the tank), which will straddle the long pipe in the pics.
A day at a time...
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:salut:
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:cyclops: so clean.
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That's pretty smart right there. Great strength in the arch..the Roman's built everything with arches, and they're still standing today.
An open arch...allowing water to flow freely below. Guys...this inverted half-pipe idea is easily applied to the big aluminum tanks. Just smaller diameter heavy schedule PVC. The curvature where the PVC engages the tank...prevents trapped moisture. The Pascoe method improved.
Sweet job.
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DEAD SEXY!!! :cheers:
Gorgeous work and engineering. Color me impressed. :colors:
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Thanks guys.
I spent 4 hours today cutting the 1708, without mat, cloth. Cut a 4" and then a 8" strip for the tabbing. Dry cutting it took a couple hours alone and it was all bent-over work :(
Anyway, all the time my left side brain was calculating and it seems that I don't have enough resin to do the putty and then all the glass. So it is all ready to go, just need to order some more resin to make sure I don't get caught short. Next weekend. It'll give my back a little break :D
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A little more progress.
Spent about 10 minutes spot grinding Saturday where I had tacked the stringers in. Then spent a couple hours cutting another layer of 1708 w/mat for the 3rd layer of glass and dry cutting it in. Prep certainly takes more time than actually laying the glass. Then I started working out the bulkheads, marking them, grinding and adding another couple layers of 1708 to beef them up.
Today I mixed up some thickened epoxy with cabosil and chopped fibers this time and then spread fillets along the starboard stinger. Then Ed arrived and we started to mix resin for the layup. 4" and 8" of 1708 w/o mat and then 12" 1708 with mat. This thing is going to be a tank, that's like 8 layers of 1708 :shock:
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0679.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0680.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0682.JPG)
We only did one stringer so I wasn't stepping into the stuff (which I did anyway), sliding and busting my butt again (which I didn't do :cheers: ). Next weekend I'll glass the other stringer in and also the tank supports.
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Nice work.
It helps to know somebody else is out there bent over all day and with fiberglass itching everywhere. :wink:
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Brickhouse :bom:
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Got the other stringer in yesterday
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0684.JPG)
Made another form for the bulkheads, a flat side for the tank side and angled away - seems the bulkheads I made earlier deformed themselves somehow. Maybe sitting outside for a few months :scratch: Very weird. Anyway, this will be installed next weekend so there hopefully won't be another chance of deformation. 3 layers of 1808, 4 in the bottom.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0683.JPG)
Ground the inside out today. Boy the grinding is getting tough in this heat - sweat out a Tyvek suit, had to trash it.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0685.JPG)
The tank still fits, just barely though :cheers:
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0686.JPG)
Ran out of resin again so couldn't make anymore progress. Wanted to stick at least the center tube support in....
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I bedded the middle support in putty
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0687.JPG)
And then glassed it in
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0688.JPG)
Then started the painstaking task of measuring and marking and re-measuring and re-marking and finally cutting the bulkheads and dry fitting them - I designed them to be about 1 1/2" fore and aft of the notch out so I have some place to glass to on the inside.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0689.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0690.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0691.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0692.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0693.JPG)
Then I got them about where they'll end up and then dropped the tank in
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0694.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0695.JPG)
I'll glass in 2 strips of jasper board built up to fill the gap between the tank and the bulkheads. The other 2 supports will be glassed in on each side of the main support once I get the bulkheads glassed in.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0696.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0697.JPG)
From a distance they already look part of the stringer system - fit pretty good.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0698.JPG)
Hopefully today I'll get everything glassed in - have a lot of other things going on today.
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Are you planning any other support for the tank bottom Rick and if so wouldn't it be easier to install that before you put the bulkheads in?
Outstanding fits BTW... The whole idea with glasss and fillets is measure with a micrometer, mark it with a crayon then cut it with an ax! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: Really nice job!
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Nice work Rick! :thumright:
Keep in mind, your gas tank will have a chemical reaction when you fill it with gas and grow a bit. Space around the tank is needed.
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Are you planning any other support for the tank bottom Rick and if so wouldn't it be easier to install that before you put the bulkheads in?
Outstanding fits BTW... The whole idea with glasss and fillets is measure with a micrometer, mark it with a crayon then cut it with an ax! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: Really nice job!
Thanks.
There are 2 more supports going in - go back to top of a page and you'll see them. I need to have some flat areas to glass the bulkheads in on the tank side, then I'll stick and glass the other supports in. They are a little shorter and are not a path for water. It would be easier to do it before but.... I needed the long support glassed in before I could glass in the bulkheads which needed to be done before I can get the other supports in - kind a chicken and egg thing.
Looks like it'll be next weekend on glassing them in.
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Nice work Rick! :thumright:
Keep in mind, your gas tank will have a chemical reaction when you fill it with gas and grow a bit. Space around the tank is needed.
Thanks.
I think they said 1/4". I have plenty of room for that growth except on the very corners where it sits in the notch. Hopefully they are stout enough to make it grow in other places :wink:
I'll leave a little space in between the bulkheads and the tank for a little growth.
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Chicken, eggs :thumright: .... Got it.. Both should be served fried the latter in bacon grease!! :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
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Got a ?....on page 14, one of the pics shows 2 more half pipes under the tank, are yo still going to put them there and if so how would they drain if water gets to them, I was just looking quickly thru and saw your bulkheads, they look great by the way :thumright: and the fit is fantastic :salut: ....looks like you have a good plan, was just thinking with my fingers :lol:
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The 2 other supports will be there but they are tank support only and shorter. I'm going to drill a hole and run a piece of PVC pipe for a limber hole in the rear bulkhead on either side of the long support to drain the tank area if for some reason water happens to get in there.
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This thing is going to be a tank, that's like 8 layers of 1708 :shock:
i smell a bigger motor in the future :cheers:
will be interesting to see how much she weighs when done compared to the original factory spec. nice work rick :thumleft:
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The 2 other supports will be there but they are tank support only and shorter. I'm going to drill a hole and run a piece of PVC pipe for a limber hole in the rear bulkhead on either side of the long support to drain the tank area if for some reason water happens to get in there.
Another option would be to drill weep holes on each side of the center PVC pipe at the back of the coffin.
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Sounds like you have it figured out :thumright: She's looking good :salut:
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Another option would be to drill weep holes on each side of the center PVC pipe at the back of the coffin.
That would work as long as water doesn't work back into the cavity. Come to think about it I guess it could just as easy come back up through the limber holes.
Might be the easiest way. Good thinking!!
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This thing is going to be a tank, that's like 8 layers of 1708 :shock:
i smell a bigger motor in the future :cheers:
will be interesting to see how much she weighs when done compared to the original factory spec. nice work rick :thumleft:
And that's each side of each stringer at the bottom :shock:
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Rick,
Your work is looking great.
I don't know if you have seen this before or if it affects anything you are doing, but I found this on the net.
http://www.incaproducts.com/Installation.pdf (http://www.incaproducts.com/Installation.pdf)
Just thought I would share....
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Rick,
Your work is looking great.
I don't know if you have seen this before or if it affects anything you are doing, but I found this on the net.
http://www.incaproducts.com/Installation.pdf (http://www.incaproducts.com/Installation.pdf)
Just thought I would share....
:shock: :shock: that seems like a lot :shock: :shock:
ALL TANKS WILL EXPAND 2% IN ALL DIRECTIONS (LENGTH, WIDTH, AND HEIGHT) AFTER
EXPOSURE TO FUEL
Is that because of weight or chemical reaction/moisture? Both? I am no chemist(although I make a mean Black and Tan :drunken: ), will it expand and then contract that much all the time? or just after initial fill, if it's just after fill I think I would be doing a test fill soon :)
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Rick, I agree with pzart. A test fill would be in your best interest prior to putting a new floor in place. Unless you are fabing a fuel cell door, replacing the tank would require cutting out the floor.
Edit: especially since you said the corners of the tank are touching the notches in the stringers.
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I did a filled up test fit as well. Left and inch all the way around, and used 1" corecell cleats (2 on each corner) 5200'd to the stringers and bulkheads. Put them in dry first and filled the tank up to make sure there was no problems...
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Rick,
Your work is looking great.
I don't know if you have seen this before or if it affects anything you are doing, but I found this on the net.
http://www.incaproducts.com/Installation.pdf (http://www.incaproducts.com/Installation.pdf)
Just thought I would share....
Thanks CLM, I emailed Inca at the very beginning of this and asked them for any installation instructions - never received a reply. I wish I would have found this on their website. I just went there and still can't find anything like this on the site http://www.incaproducts.com/site/default.aspx
The only place that I'm touching is the corners and really only 2 of them are snug. Hadn't planned on neoprene at all.
Chris, did you drain it afterward to continue the work?
I guess I need to buy a lot of 5 gallon cans...
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Guess in theory the corners could expand....but seems the expansion should occur in the areas of least resistance, that is, the centers of each run.
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That's what I could hope for too.
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Guess in theory the corners could expand....but seems the expansion should occur in the areas of least resistance, that is, the centers of each run.
Exactly what my thinking is. As long as the corners and top are held snug, let the rest expand how it wants.
I actually just filled it with water for test fit then pumped it out. Fuel would still be in there if i did that haha.
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That's what I could hope for too.
:thumright:
That to me makes good sense. Equal pressure is the "control" here...the corners are the most rigid portion physically....then back them up with a corner stanchion in the same four spots as you have....I'd be good with that. Set it and forget it. Wouldn't hurt though to have a thin bit of rubber per each corner as a chafe guard for vibration, etc.
And to take it a step further...2% max expansion...which should occur on the "saggy" portion (middle portion). If we do the math, what does that equate to per side? 3/8ths max in the middle?
Feel free to input here guys....I'm wrong a plenty...every day at home :mrgreen:
Rick, getting back to you're build...you're smoking it bud :wink:
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I think a test is a great idea, but I'm not sure that water is a valid test medium. The instructions talk about expansion after being exposed to fuel, and someone previously mentioned a chemical reaction. IMO, you would be better off using gas. Is your boat on a trailer? If so, take it to the gas station and fill it up. Let it sit for a day or two so that it has time to undergo whatever reaction occurs. Then siphon the gas out and put it into your vehicle.
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(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0675.JPG)
Great pic regarding 2% expansion.
The idea is to leave room in the center of the longitudinal run on each side to prevent tank expansion from exerting enough lateral pressure to "break" the stringers.
2% expansion...translates to 1% per side...but actually less given the other two short "sides" of the rectangle..... bow and stern tank walls.
1% per side max...looks to be 3/16ths or less. Most likely 1/8th.
Per this install...a non-issue IMHO.
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Hate to disagree Scott, but 2% is 2%, no matter how you slice it. I think Rick's tank is 28"wide, so it will theoretically expand 0.56" in width, or a little over 1/4" per side.
If you look at it halves, each half is 14". 2% of that is 0.28". So each side may grow a little over 1/4" :wink:.
If his tank is 50" long, each end will grow 1/2" (theoretically).
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Also, as robust as those stringers are, I would be more worried about busting that tank :shock:
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Hate to disagree Scott, but 2% is 2%, no matter how you slice it. I think Rick's tank is 28"wide, so it will theoretically expand 0.56" in width, or a little over 1/4" per side.
If you look at it halves, each half is 14". 2% of that is 0.28". So each side may grow a little over 1/4" :wink:.
If his tank is 50" long, each end will grow 1/2" (theoretically).
Good deal Craig :thumright:
No disagreement....it's all about the math, you've calculated it, so each sides grows by 1/4 inch max. in theory.
Given the pic...he's still safe there.
But the ends befuddle me...why would they grow larger than the sides by 1/4 inch?
This is going to be a function of calculus and physics...of which my knowledge is freshman level... :roll:
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But the ends befuddle me...why would they grow larger than the sides by 1/4 inch?
The growth is a percentage of the original dimension, in this case 2%. So multiply the dimension of concern (in this case the length, 50") by 0.02, and your result is 1". Assume the midpoint is fixed, so each end grows 1/2".
I hope my input is not construed as stirring up trouble - hopefully Rick's build has enough room for the expansion. But I only found that document today. And I would rather bring up any issues before the deck is on....
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Also, as robust as those stringers are, I would be more worried about busting that tank :shock:
X2 - the tank will crack before the stringers break.
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I think a test is a great idea, but I'm not sure that water is a valid test medium. The instructions talk about expansion after being exposed to fuel, and someone previously mentioned a chemical reaction. IMO, you would be better off using gas. Is your boat on a trailer? If so, take it to the gas station and fill it up. Let it sit for a day or two so that it has time to undergo whatever reaction occurs. Then siphon the gas out and put it into your vehicle.
Agreed
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But the ends befuddle me...why would they grow larger than the sides by 1/4 inch?
The growth is a percentage of the original dimension, in this case 2%. So multiply the dimension of concern (in this case the length, 50") by 0.02, and your result is 1". Assume the midpoint is fixed, so each end grows 1/2".
I hope my input is not construed as stirring up trouble - hopefully Rick's build has enough room for the expansion. But I only found that document today. And I would rather bring up any issues before the deck is on....
Gotcha.
Makes good sense :thumright:
Stirring up trouble, heck no...we're a team here. You're math is right, and based upon your explanation...I failed to do the math in a planar manner.
I stand corrected. But given the smaller dimension on the ends it is still difficult to analyze. We may need to bring physics to the equation with regard to ease of direction/expansion.
As far as Rick's install....these numbers represent a worst-case expansion scenario...yet if diminished by just a tad...he's golden.
The 2% maximum expansion is based upon a full tank of petrol.
Let's analyze this further.
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Just took another look at the pic posted.
The tank could expand by 2% max...in the easiest direction.
The easiest direction of expansion is across the top...largest area without encumberance. Given the tank design...and the narrow dimensions/angles on the bottom portion and corners...appears they have engineered the expansion to occur/puff on the aft top.
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I have plenty of expansion room 'cept the corners. Guess after the CR trip I'll fill it up and see what is going to happen - I'll need some gas in my truck for sure after that trip.
If you look at the tank it is not the typical rectangle - side shot:
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/IMG_27951.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=18663&title=img-27951&cat=646)
End shot:
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/IMG_27991.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=18668&title=img-27991&cat=646)
I was hoping any growth would be in the big areas and that would be in the top and bottom (bow up and sag) - can't see how it could grow much in the sides and ends. We'll see I guess.
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I agree that the test is your best bet. And I suspect, as in pretty much any instance where there may be some liability involved, that the vendor's 2% expansion value is very conservative. See you in Crystal River, Rick.
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To realize where the tank will expand, one must understand what causes the expansion.
When the material used to construct the tank comes in contact with fuel, the material absorbs (think sponge on a much smaller scale) a portion of the fuel and that is the cause for expansion. Areas that have continued contact with the fuel tend to reach full absorption and therefore expand the greatest. Also, this absorption is what leads to the plastic/poly type tank fuel smell that can occur. That stated, if the tank were completely full, it would expand (again like a sponge) in all directions.
The 2% (Moeller uses 3%) is the calculated size increase based on (a guess here) the surface area and wall thickness of the tank. As was stated earlier, using fuel and filling the tank would be the proper procedure to test expansion. Other factors like ambient temperature can also play a part in this equation but I'd bet the design engineer doesn't attach as much weight to that as he does the chemical properties of his design.
So where does that leave Rick?
Well I doubt that the expansion will damage his stringers or bulkheads. I would be more concerned (as BA stated) with the possibility of damage (over time) to the tank itself. I agree that the tank structure will fail way before the resin and glass do. The corners would be what I'd address not so much for the expansion itself but for the chafing that could occur because of it. Grind it back just a bit, add some neoprene and let the four winds blow.
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Great explanation CB. Learned something new today :thumright:
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Great explanation CB. Learned something new today :thumright:
X2....great info to know
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Rick,
I've been doing some searching on the web for additional installation information for these poly tanks (I bought one for my rebuild too). I came across something for Kracor tanks. They are made of crosslinked polyethylene, just like our Incas, and their expansion is very close to what Inca reports (about 1/4" per 12", or about 2%). What really stood out was the statement "This swelling will occur during the first 30-45 days after being filled and will then stabilize".
So, unless you can fill the tank and let it sit for a month or so, I'm not so sure the "gas fill" test is going to be meaningful.
Here is a link to the Kracor document:
http://4wings.com/lib/files/fueltanks.pdf (http://4wings.com/lib/files/fueltanks.pdf)
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Thanks Craig - a super sleuth :salut: Wonder if that means only if you leave a full tank?
I need to spend some time grinding out the corners a bit and regain the clearance I once had. I want to add the cushioning that it needs. My buddy Dave gave me a neoprene "square" about 2'x2'x 1/2". I will cushion anywhere this tank sits against something hard and in the corners. Not for another 2 weekends though :D
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:thumleft: :thumleft:
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My how time flies...
I had to either cut the tank shorter or make the coffin larger. Harbor freight didn't have a plastic welder of that magnitude so the coffin lost out.
I cut, added on and then scarf jointed the connections and laid in about 6 layers of glass. It's solid and I gained 1-1/2" more clearance.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0720.JPG)
Then I glassed in the bulkheads
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0723.JPG)
Next I glassed in the outer tank supports
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0728.JPG)
This morning I drilled some drain holes for the coffin into the main pipe going thru per Fernando's suggestion :salut:
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0735.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0736.JPG)
Then I cut high density foam and contact cemented it in place anywhere the tank would touch the coffin or could touch it.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0729.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0730.JPG)
I then set the tank in. It's hard to see the foam but I now have about an inch on each end of the tank - 1/2" from the foam on each end the foam is 1/2". Let the swelling begin. I'll also leave room for that swell in the strapping across the top of the tank.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0731.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0732.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0733.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0734.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0737.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0738.JPG)
Plenty of room still.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0739.JPG)
Next is laying out the fill/vent and starting to think about routing power forward and everything else aft.
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Looks great Rick. Fits like a (loose) glove :thumleft: !
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Geez Rick. That is some first class work right there. :salut:
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Nice!!! :salut:
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Kinda hard to see the silver nitrate embedded in the HD foam with the blue filter lens but I'll assume it's there. :scratch:
Lookin' good. :thumright:
PS... Trust you had enough left for the hoof.
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Looks great Rick! Do you have an estimated launch date for the 170?
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It looks GREAT.
That little beefcake is gonna outlast everyone here by a long shot.
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(http://www.oocities.org/area51/vault/4633/3beefcake.gif)
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Looks great Rick! Do you have an estimated launch date for the 170?
Isnt it bad karma to answer that?! Haha
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I'll give the same answer that our engineering dept at work gives when we ask about a release date.....Soon.
:lol:
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I'll give the same answer that our engineering dept at work gives when we ask about a release date.....Soon.
:lol:
Back in 2011...My ride was to have been "soon". And actually figured back then on it being "soon."
At least you're doing the work :thumright:
This part of the build that you can't see later...to me that's what its all about.
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Cut some holes this weekend to route everything. Only way out of the console is down into the fuel tank coffin because the console will sit on the stringers edge to edge.
So I cut a couple holes in the front of the coffin - left holes are for the fuel fill and vent hoses, the one on the right is to route battery cables, nav lights, etc forward.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0740.JPG)
The holes in the back are 2" pipe because of the limited room above the tank. I then will install a 2" to 3" converter and a 45 degree coupler and connect to the 3" pipe going through the stringers. I need room to pull through the engine controls and the 3" 45 does the trick.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0742.JPG)
Edit: Oops - somehow I pasted the same pic twice.
The 3" on each side will end at the corners on each side where I'll build a little box to route the stuff through.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0741.JPG)
Almost foam time.
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Coming along nicely, Rick!
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What brand motor are you going to run? Only reason I ask is that when I ran my 3 inch tubes with 45's on them, I couldn't get the control cables for my Johnson thru them. Luckily I tried them first before glueing them all together and sealing them under the foam :shock: I had to put the tubes togther 1 at a time as I fed the cables thru. got it done but realized after that if I ever have to replace the cables or remove to go with a different brand motor, they will get the ends cut off to pull them out and probably get the new ones ran under the floor.( I left space to do so.)She's looking good Rick... :thumright:
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I tested the Johnson/Evinrude cables through assembled pipe and it seemed to go through fine. Maybe it's the 2-3" converter that gives it the length it needs to make the transistion? Definitely have to stagger the two control cables and tape them or pull them one at a time.
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I retested pulling (actually pushing) the cables through the pipe from the tank area towards the back and they went through no problem, however they didn't want to come back out probably because the adjustment wheels are catching on something. I bet if I broke the edge with some tape they'd come right out.
I glued the 2-3" converter only and dry fit the rest in. In the front I will heat the pipe going forward and bow it toward the prow a little so I will have the wires (battery and nav) right where I need them.
Also notice I ran the fuel fill and vent through their holes - I have enough length to get anywhere I need to in the front. I haven't connected them to the tank yet. I also need to strap the tank down.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0743.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0744.JPG)
I will lam some small strips of glass to tie the pipe into the stringers and fill the voids around the pipes to keep the foam in.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0745.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0746.JPG)
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If you haven't glued all the pipe yet, you might want to think about this little tidbit. :thumright: ..(I learned it a little late) :shock: before you glue the pieces, take a dremmel tool or something like that and camfor the insde lip that will go into the fitting. If you feel the lip when the pieces are togehter but not glued, just grind away enough so it doesn't leave a lip... just found out how much a little lip can make you want to cut a hole to run new wires :twisted: , I had to replace my engine harness last week(Johnson with the big red ends) and pulled all the wiring out to do so, battery cables and all acc. wires and lights. Pulled new battery cables (size1, up from #4's) :thumright: all the other wires and 3 new wires for future whatevers, and new harness. Wished then I had taken the lip off as the pull got hung up at every junction, had to work it back and forth a time or 2, even had it all lubed up..had the pulls staggered with harness first because of the big ends then battery cables then wiring...The rewire took 5 hours..and when done the first thing I thought of was why didn't I remove the lip when I put these together :scratch:
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What G said x2!!!
Had the same issue pulling 0/0 and flex copper for power and air from the barn out to the Boatshop in 2 inch PVC. The 0/0 went out first and the PVC was not chamfered and it was glued.. There was most definitely language used unbefitting a gentalman :shock: :oops: . The PVC for the flex copper had not been glued so the ends were cut down to almost a feather edge and the stops in the middle of the couplings were almost completely removed. I should have used actual conduit because the bends have a larger radius and softer sweep to them. But there wasn't any on hand and rain was coming, the trench had to get filled, yada, yada.. :roll: :roll: .......idiot....
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Rick, straps really are not necessary as your tank has no where to go. When you do strap her down be sure and leave a little play to allow for the expansion. Nice work!
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Boat is looking great Rick :salut: , you can tell a lot of thought has gone on behind the scenes..have to agree with Blue on the tank, if you don't have much gap on top, may be an easier way to keep it "stationary", I found out after strapping mine in that all I would have had to do is put maybe a piece or 2 of foam pad(the round flotation play stuff) over it in a couple of places and there she would have stayed :thumright: I only had 3/8 of an inch to 1/2 inch space over the fill neck to the floor.
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I have 1 3/4" between the floor and the top of the fill doghouse. I was going to glass in a piece of jasper board that sits inside the slots I have but 1/2" above the tank top and the "strap" of jasper board will be 2" narrower than the slot to allow for craziness. I'll do that in both slots.
As for the lips on the ID of the PVC, I will check it out - maybe grind them by default before I glue the 2 pieces together. There is only two places that will have an inner lip on the aft to front trip - going the other way it is a easy pull. Good tip though - thanks guys.
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Man is it hot out there :shock:
Saturday morning I made some cardboard templates and lam'd the last layer of cloth on the Plascore board. Stuff is pretty nice and easy to work with and pretty cheap - less than 3/4 marine plywood. After you add in the cost of the cloth and the resin it's still not too bad.
Cardboard templates cut.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0747.JPG)
Tracing and cutting out of the Plascore
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0748.JPG)
Dry fit, traced the sides onto the hull and then got in and ground where I would be lamming them in and while I was at it I ground the hull sides where the floor will butt up so I don't have to do it later. Grinding sucks but a flap sanding wheel makes quick work of it.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0749.JPG)
Then I mixed some thick putty, coated the 3 edges of each bulkhead with enough to ooze out so I could fillet them, stuck them in, ran the fillets and then tabbed them in. Got done about 130p and almost passed out from the heat - had to come into the house and lay down in front of a fan. Definitely an early morning job. Started early but it took 4 hours to cut the bulkheads, cut all the cloth, grind the areas and then vacuum the hull. By then it was noon. :roll: Too hot but had to get done.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0750.JPG)
Getting there. Still haven't glued the pvc together but it will be soon. I have one more weekend before I leave for the UK - this trip is 6 weeks long so no progress for a while.
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Looking at the PVC to the bow for the lights..
The last thing you want to think about in the heat you have is using steam for anything...
If you have a steam cleaner you can close off the ends of the PVC with rags and put the steam to her and in about 20 minutes you will be able to tie the whole thing up like a pretzel. Just be careful to support it every foot or so or it will sag, it can get that soft. :oops: Maybe that’s a fall project?
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looks really good rick. I cut and fit parts one day early and then install the next morning. It's way too hot in the afternoons.
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substructure is looking great. Can't wait to start seeing that floor go in.
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Me too :roll:
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Hey Rick, would you mind posting so more info on your experience with the plascore? I have zero experience with polypropylene honeycomb. Heck, I didn't even know that plascore existed, I only knew about nidacore (which is pretty expensive).
Anyhow, I got looking into this stuff and found out they are here in Michigan. I called yesterday (great c.s. btw) spoke to there enineering dept. and sales and got a price from the factory. What I'm saying is I am really leaning towards using this for the frames, deck, transom enclosure, and maybe even a console from scratch since I won't have a fear of using polyester resin with it and I can save some serious coin also.
What I was wondering is if you used epoxy or poly for laminating the skin on the core, and any other info you could pass along about this stuff.
I appreciate it a bunch. :salut:
Thanks!
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Hi Carl,
I am new to plascore too but followed the instructions that I received from my supplier (which I'm sure they got from the mfr) and they recommend 2 layers of cloth on one side and 1 on the other. Their instructions used Poly but I'm using epoxy.
I used 1808 on the board and it remained light and was a breeze to cut, taking me maybe 5 minutes to cut out the patterns above.
Like any other honeycomb it will not hold a screw without prefilling the spot with thickened resin. The instructions did allude to warping as the glass hardened so don't mix your resin too hot.
I plan on using the product for my floor. I'll have epoxy on the underside and poly on the top.
Tonight I drilled limber holes in the corners of the bulkheads (above) to let water get to the back of the boat - drilled very easy.
The board has a light scrim on each side and I was thinking that if I knew where I was going to be using screws I could grind that scrim off in the areas of the underside of the board (think tracing your console base on the board in the place it will be located) and then filling all the exposed honeycomb with thickened resin, and then maybe while it's still wet, lamming the cloth over the board.
I plan on using the remainder of the board I have to bridge the space between the stringers in the aft to support the floor.
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Bilge pump - I am thinking of going with a Johnson 1000 gph pump and need to route the hose over to the side of the hull and want to know if there is anything undesirable with using a 90 degree thru hull for the discharge. I don't have a lot of room at the discharge point.
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Bilge pump - I am thinking of going with a Johnson 1000 gph pump and need to route the hose over to the side of the hull and want to know if there is anything undesirable with using a 90 degree thru hull for the discharge. I don't have a lot of room at the discharge point.
Nothing undesirable whatsoever. Beats a kinked hose that cracks from stress three years out.
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Thanks Rick.
I sent you a PM also.
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Back at it.
Before I left for England I put the liner back in the boat and piled everything around the boat in the boat and covered it up for the 5+ week trip in case the weather got rough while I was gone.
I cleaned up the 230 and covered it and uncovered/unpacked the 170. I also went down and bought a new tarp - this time green is the only one they had in the size I needed so my "hue" will be a little different in the pics.
The liner, as you can see is now laying on the outside bulkheads due to the height I raised the stringers and I figured if I cut it right above the built up area (ground area on the bottom) I would start getting close, which happens to be almost 3". I want to make sure I keep the gunnel tops level and also put in the rod inserts to make sure the liner is off the hull enough. I will have a 1" sole going in so I may have to trim some more off, we'll see.
Before
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0834.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0835.JPG)
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You can see how the rigging tube will fit up under the liner. I think I will have to heat up the pipe and bend it just a little more so it lays up there real nice with a piece of neoprene behind it. I also, after looking at the access I'll have under the liner to the port side, will have to run the fuel fill and vent up front also. I ordered a combo fill/vent 45 degree perko fill so I can loop the hose back toward the stern after I get under the liner up there. I want to install a trolling motor up on the front of the cap with a Dog-bone mount so I hope I have the room for all this stuff. I also ordered a flip up LED nav light (livorsi) so it'll be hidden 95% of it's life on this boat. Soooo many things to think about on these old rebuilds.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0840.JPG)
In this pic you can see the thickness of what I'm calling the "built up area" to the left. Also you can see I put my bilge pump in the back about where the deepest part of the back area is (I built it up at least a 1/2" lamming in the transom). 1st bilge pump this boat has ever had below deck.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0839.JPG)
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After the trim - still need to level the gunnels/put in the rod inserts and see how much I need to adjust.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0841.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0843.JPG)
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Before I go much father on the sole I need to figure out the actual size of the console. I want to add a seat in the front of the console so I started the demo and rebuild on that today.
Cut the front off and gutted all the old wood out.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0844.JPG)
I added some new mat
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0845.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0846.JPG)
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5 weeks of no itch, time to get back at it
Looking good
Capt Matt
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I added cloth to the sides and a stuck a block of Plascore for windshield reinforcement.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0847.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=7995&title=cimg0847&cat=646)
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(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG08501.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=7998&title=cimg08501&cat=646)
I cut and glued some wood back into the console.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG08511.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=7999&title=cimg08511&cat=646)
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5 weeks of no itch, time to get back at it
Looking good
Capt Matt
You're right about that itch :D I made up for it with the grinding of the console :cry:
Getting back at it felt kinda good if you don't factor in the heat :roll:
Thanks bud.
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You're right about that itch :D I made up for it with the grinding of the console :cry:
They tell me peroxide works well on that. :idea:
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Matt, I think you said you have a Minn Kota trolling motor on the front of your FB, is it the iPilot version? Do you have a dog bone base under it?
Reason I ask is that I think I will put one on the front of mine but don't know the size of the dog bone base, so I don't know if it'll fit or not on the front of my cap. The dog bone site doesn't have any specs on it listed, have an email into them but wondered it you know the size of the base?
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Coming together nicely Rick! How's the build quality of that nav light? I thought Accon was the only one that made a flip-up nav light. They look very similar. Good to see there are options.
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Glad you're home.
She's looking deluxe.
Funny you mentioned heating/bending PVC pipe...its the topic du jour.
Please expound on that procedure.... tx :thumright:
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Coming together nicely Rick! How's the build quality of that nav light? I thought Accon was the only one that made a flip-up nav light. They look very similar. Good to see there are options.
The nav light hasn't gotten here yet so I have no clue about the quality - all I know is it takes a BIG hole to mount it. The old type you only needed a 1/2" hole for the wire. This one needs a 3" hole :shock:
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Glad you're home.
She's looking deluxe.
Funny you mentioned heating/bending PVC pipe...its the topic du jour.
Please expound on that procedure.... tx :thumright:
Harbor freight heat gun - heat carefully until the pipe is just warm enough to bend.
I will also make a cloth strap to keep it in place.
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More console work - started laying out the height, the length and getting it glued together - screws are temporary.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0852.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8039&title=cimg0852&cat=646)
The "sticks" in the corners are oak and are pinned and trimmed after the glue dries. The oak is a corner filler (cut at a 45) so the glass goes though the corner easily.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0853.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8040&title=cimg0853&cat=646)
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While I was at it I ground down everything on the console for filling. I was covered in dust/glass by 8:15A :roll:
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0854.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8041&title=cimg0854&cat=646)
Removed the screws and drilled for dowels and glued them in. Then I routed the corners so the mat would cover it easily. I then followed it up with a belt sander to clean it up.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0857.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8044&title=cimg0857&cat=646)
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Last night I put a layer of mat on the wood inside and out. This morning I suited up in the tyvek suit and started scruffing up/grinding the wood and the inside of the console. I was soaked in the 30 minutes it took to get all the material scruffed. When I had everything the way it needed to be I mixed up some thickened poly and troweled it on the inside sides of the console and then pulled the wood into the putty with some stainless screws.
I had about 4' x 33" left of the Plascore sheet that I had lam'd up a few months ago (can't believe it's been that long) and I cut that up into the seat and the backrest.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0858.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8045&title=cimg0858&cat=646)
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(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0859.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8046&title=cimg0859&cat=646)
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This is what the front of the console looked like before - a cooler in front that left about a foot gap between if you wanted to lean back on the console (and why wouldn't you)
http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=1100&title=cooler-in-front-of-console&cat=500 (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=1100&title=cooler-in-front-of-console&cat=500)
It looks like I will be able to get 3 batteries under the seat - 2 for the trolling motor and the engine battery. That will leave the entire console free to hang the pumps and buss bars and whatever else I may need. 8)
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Another nice little project, Rick! Coming along good. Are you going to add an access hatch on the seat for the batteries? Or can you get to them from the inside?
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Thanks Craig.
What I'm going to do is lay glass/cloth across the seat/back the way it is and bring the glass over the edge about 2". If you look at the 74/75 170's, they had a opening hatch that was the seat and backrest to gain access to the inside of the console - so I'm making a retro hatch like that. Not sure why they stopped making that access - probably for the baitwell that became the standard under the seat. Only difference is I'm going over the sides of the console a bit. Now I need to find the latches to do it.
http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=2716&title=as-170-sales-sheet1-19&cat=552
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Like the console Rick, looks big enough to hold everything you could think to place in there :thumright: Like the hatch idea for the seat, sometimes wish mine had a hatch instead of the flip seat, but that's what I have on this one :lol:
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Awesome build! Great ingenuity and craftsmanship. Great stuff!
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Thanks Koz, one day at a time and one idea at a time. Like you and your rebuild, I'm trying to make the original design more usable, solid and more 21st century. Hope to get a lot done this long weekend.
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Here is a link to a guy that built his entire boat out of plascore - good info on joints and fillers. http://mountaindogs.net/plascorehull
http://mountaindogs.net/plascoredrifter
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Interesting read.
The interlocking joints, is that how you plan on splicing the deck pieces?
So I understand,
The reason for using this material is for reduced weight and anti rot properties. Since it cannot support fasteners to the level needed under most conditions, it needs to be re-enforced in those areas. In the link, re-enforcement is with wood. Playing the Devil's advocate here, isn't that counterproductive to the anti rot desirability? I believe rot isn't as rampant in the north as it is down here so that may not be a factor.
Going on past experiences of members on this forum and my own, deck rot is started with a poor seal between the deck and fastener entry. Sealing the fastener is not technically challenging but does require a degree of skill and persistence on the installer's part.
That stated, are you using a different material/technique for fasteners?
Thanks.
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When I worked, we tested that material. To see how well a bond joint, between it and aluminum. Would hold up under thermal cycling. It worked well. Not for space use, because of the great temp differential. But in a normal atmosphere environment, it was fine. So if using plascore bond aluminum instead of wood, under areas you intend to screw to.
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I visit one site where they dovetail the boards together - don't think I will do any dovetailing to join my panels as I don't think I'll gain anything in strength since the floor is not being stressed like the outside of a hull but the square notching looks like the way to go. Putty them together at the seam to "weld" them together and then glass the whole board.
As for reinforcing the mounting points, I have been consulting with my mentor and he tossed out the idea of glassing one side and then routing out the other where I need to screw down say, the console. Then either use some form of expanded foam panels like Celtec or just build up some layers of cloth and fill the routings with those and then glue/glass them in. Celtec in 3/4" is not too badly priced but shipping is as expensive as the panel itself so it's not worth it unless I can find it relatively local.
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You thought about glassing the console in?
Glass the inside of the console right to the deCk, no screw required and a nice clean looking install
Capt Matt
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I wonder if "edge banding" router bits would work on core as well? These are the bits I am going to use on my 1/2 fir plywood to join the seams.
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq300/kaptainkoz/edgebandbits.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/kaptainkoz/media/edgebandbits.jpg.html)
http://www.shopping.com/Amana-Amana-Too ... /info?sb=1 (http://www.shopping.com/Amana-Amana-Tool-55466-90-Degree-Angle-Edge-Banding-1-25-32-Inch-Diameter-by-1-2-Inch-Shank-Router-Bit-Set-2-Piece/info?sb=1)
Basically they are large 45 degree angle bits. Its similar to tongue and groove except is isnt as delicate and I think It will hold a bead of "peanut butter" resin mix much better. Seems to me like it could work on the plastic. That large "castle" cut would be great laterally but its not going to do much vertically other than rely on the glass over it to hold it down. The edgeband bit seems to be the way to butt the floors together forever. Just my 2 cents and a hypothetical suggestion as I have not used them yet myself but intend to.
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Wouldnt worry about the joint too much, butt em together, the glass does all the work...
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Wouldnt worry about the joint too much, butt em together, the glass does all the work...
I agree that the square joint in my application is overkill and I'm not sure, Koz, how the plastic honey comb would react to an aggressive bit set like those.
I thought about just gluing them together with some putty to stabilize them and glass them during the same process.
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You thought about glassing the console in?
Glass the inside of the console right to the deCk, no screw required and a nice clean looking install
Capt Matt
I have been toying around in my brain with somehow making a toe kick around the bottom and then glassing it down. Then I won't have to reinforce at all.
This will require some rework this weekend. Decisions, decisions. The console has to have a stout connection because it is the only place too hang on in the boat.
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I'm planning to just but my nidacore pieces together and glass both sides, but I'm also going to put a bulkhead at each joint location for a little extra support for the joints.
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You thought about glassing the console in?
Glass the inside of the console right to the deCk, no screw required and a nice clean looking install
Capt Matt
I have been toying around in my brain with somehow making a toe kick around the bottom and then glassing it down. Then I won't have to reinforce at all.
This will require some rework this weekend. Decisions, decisions. The console has to have a stout connection because it is the only place too hang on in the boat.
There is a toe kick on my Onslow Bay console. The console basically sits on top of a smaller, cored rectangle.
So you would need to put a floor in your console.
An additional benefit besides the recess is the interior of the console stays bone dry.
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I built my console with room to fit my toes under it, glassing it down is crazy strong and no screw to ever rust or vibrate loose
Think about glassing pads inside the console to mount fuse holders, breakers, power pole pump etc, gives it a clean look if you don't have to thru bolt
Capt Matt
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I think I have figured out how to do the toe kick around the base and then to glass it down - like kitchen cabinets :D
The entire console is lined with 3/4" marine ply so mounting stuff is not an issue - no thru-bolting required for the pumps, etc. Steering, throttle, that kind of stuff, yes.
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Exactly. Like kitchen cabinets... except you'll need the toe kick all four sides :wink:
Matt's recommendation on glassing it in makes great sense. The only downside is removing the console at a later date to service the tank...that will be a tough disassembly with no screws.
All the more reason to insure the tank installation is perfect. Don't forget the weep holes in the coffin draining to the bilge.
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Servicing the tank will be a major undertaking anyway since there is no coffin lid in the floor. Been through the checklist twice or more already :salut:
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Fill fitting bonding wire.. :wink: :wink: I still feel bad for Christian!
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Servicing the tank will be a major undertaking anyway since there is no coffin lid in the floor. Been through the checklist twice or more already :salut:
Rick, with your skilled craftsmanship I'm surprised you did not build a fuel cell/coffin lid into your project.
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A coffin lid wouldn't be that hard to build.
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Going with the boys here. Had the same decision on ours.... Farley convinced me of the many benefits.
Not to play devil's advocate...but a faulty hose, bad fitting, pinhole anywhere...its Skilsaw time :(
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Started on the toe kick design and implementation. Cut 3 1/2" off the bottom of the console and glued/screwed/doweled a piece of 3/4 ply on the bottom to start the turn for the toe kick. I'll round everything with a router in the morning. There will be a 2 3/4" deep toe kick all the way around and it will be 2 3/4" high.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/IMG_2954.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8072&title=img-2954&cat=646)
I added wood to the helm side of the console for the toe kick. The helm side will still be open to the sole. Had to belt sand the ply on the sides - seems the jigsaw had a little angle to it when I cut the bottom off the console :(
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/IMG_2956.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8074&title=img-2956&cat=646)
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I had some extra putty from gluing in the wood on the helm side and that allowed me to lay a fillet on the seat/backrest to connect them - one day at a time....
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/IMG_2953.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8071&title=img-2953&cat=646)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/IMG_2958.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8076&title=img-2958&cat=646)
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Going with the boys here. Had the same decision on ours.... Farley convinced me of the many benefits.
Not to play devil's advocate...but a faulty hose, bad fitting, pinhole anywhere...its Skilsaw time :(
Of course there will be access ports to the connections of the tanks - both ends.
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I saw that you are going for front access :thumleft: for batteries etc.. Where are those cuts going to go and do you plan on a lip on the inside to keep the water out?
Really nice progress!!!
I stared at that seat fillet for like a minute. My wife saw the look in my eye and strolled over and glanced over my shoulder.. "Damn Aquanet" is what I heard as she walked away.... :mrgreen:
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I saw that you are going for front access :thumleft: for batteries etc.. Where are those cuts going to go and do you plan on a lip on the inside to keep the water out?
From a previous post:
What I'm going to do is lay glass/cloth across the seat/back the way it is and bring the glass over the edge about 2". If you look at the 74/75 170's, they had a opening hatch that was the seat and backrest to gain access to the inside of the console - so I'm making a retro hatch like that. Not sure why they stopped making that access - probably for the baitwell that became the standard under the seat. Only difference is I'm going over the sides of the console a bit. Now I need to find the latches to do it.
http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=2716&title=as-170-sales-sheet1-19&cat=552
Really nice progress!!!
Any progress is nice progress on a rebuild of this magnitude :D
I stared at that seat fillet for like a minute. My wife saw the look in my eye and strolled over and glanced over my shoulder.. "Damn Aquanet" is what I heard as she walked away.... :mrgreen:
:lol: Seems there are only a special few women that want to spent a few hours on this site looking through the rebuilds - I have approved a few lately that are probably lurking now as we type. :salut:
More to come tomorrow - love these three day weekends. Would love it more to be out on the water but I have to get this done. :cry:
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Damn Aquanet :mrgreen:
Rick, take a second look at the tank hatch. In the scheme of things, just a bit more money. You've gone this far, and your build features synthetic materials.
Go with the hatch. The deck isn't in.
You can easily incorporate a tank hatch on your 170.
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Rick, Your planning on keeping this boat forever.... So you might as well spend just a tad more of your time to make it perfect.
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Another vote for the fuel cell/coffin lid. :thumright:
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I screwed and glued everything together and then after a 30min wait, removed the screws, routed and doweled the base onto the console.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/IMG_2959.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8077&title=img-2959&cat=646)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/IMG_2960.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8078&title=img-2960&cat=646)
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(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/IMG_2961.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8079&title=img-2961&cat=646)
All the screws will be replaced with wood dowels
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/IMG_2962.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8080&title=img-2962&cat=646)
I think it is looking sweet - I tested my toes under it after I connected it all and my wife came out at that time and of course had to make sure her toes fit right - hers fit better of course. :roll:
Tomorrow I will start glassing it all in. I have to grind the console skin down 12:1 and then a lot of build up to get it all ready. Gonna be sweet. Lost a little battery room but I'll figure it out.
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Rick I was planning to do the same on my console but use coosa. I am trying to incorporate a foot rest in the back of the console too. Like the progress is it cooling off a bit down their ?
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Rick I was planning to do the same on my console but use coosa. I am trying to incorporate a foot rest in the back of the console too. Like the progress is it cooling off a bit down their ?
Fish, if you want an insert console footrest...send a PM, tx.
Rick... have you reached a decision on the tank hatch?
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Rick, your work really looks good. You are turning a good boat into an awesome one.
:thumright:
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Going with the boys here. Had the same decision on ours.... Farley convinced me of the many benefits.
Not to play devil's advocate...but a faulty hose, bad fitting, pinhole anywhere...its Skilsaw time :(
Of course there will be access ports to the connections of the tanks - both ends.
I will play Devil's advocate.
What happens if nothing happens?
How long you planning on keeping this hull?
You have how many tank installs to review on this Forum to get it right?
You know what it takes to keep the tank from corroding (hell, the thing's poly), you've discussed the expanding universe theory to death and you plan on access to the things the CG says you have to have access to so....
I'd be curious as to how many rebuilds have tank access. :scratch: There are at least a couple of factory built Aquas that don't. :|
Search function is your friend.
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Aquas built without a tank lid was simply an accounting decision by the bean counters to make more money. Even those that didn't have a hatch had a cut line molded into the deck. We can think of a zillion reasons why he would not have to get into the tank. It's the reasons we cant think of that I'd be worried about. Besides how hard would it to build an access cover? You just build an opening in the deck with a lip under it. Then build a cover to fit in the hole. Screw it down, seal it done.
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I thought about it long and hard. MANY of the commercial Carolina boats are built with a solid deck. Including the boats made by our builder, Seamark. They are properly installed, quality production. But then again...just as Bruce says...what if??
What if that poly tank starts emitting vapor and the inspection plates reveal no issues? Or the fill hose is defective....or the ground wire corrodes halfway up the tank in five years....etc, etc.
I thought it over hard. Would have been cheaper and easier to deck it over and call it done. It took an extra three months to fabricate and mate the hatch to the sole. Rick is going all out on this build, and it's right. Frankly from what I've seen it will end up the best 170 rebuild ever.
The good news is he has the expertise to do it himself. Even if its an extra 20 hours...its not 20 hours at 75 bucks an hour.
Regardless of money....that was one decision that in the end eliminates concern, and therefore didn't regret. And Rick won't either in my humble opinion.
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A quick (really quick) search shows that Dirtwheels, Capt Matt, Lil Richard and I believe Group W Bench (Ashley's rebuild) opted the "no tank hatch" (gentlemen correct me if I'm mistaken). There are others that have put in a hatch.
Personally, I appreciated a hatch in both the CCP and the WAC since I replaced both tanks but the question isn't why these re-builders chose not to go that route but rather do they now have second thoughts? It's really hard to deny the super slick look or the strength of a glassed down center console but with a hatch underneath, that makes removal that much more difficult.
My last thoughts on the later Aquas with no hatch; I haven't noticed a lot of tank failures requiring cutting the deck, still.........
As stated above, I like mine.
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Wow, allot of pretty strong opinions on tank access hatches. I guess it comes down to risk. Risk is typically defined as probability versus consequences. What is the probability of failure of Rick's poly tank? Seems he is installing it correctly, allowing for expansion and using neoprene at all contact points as recommended. As far as I know, polyethylene does not degrade, at least not in a meaningful timeframe. So what other failure mechanisms need to be considered? We're not talking about hoses or wires or senders - those can most likely be replaced through the small access port he is installing. We are talking about actual tank failures. I imagine the probability of failure is pretty low, although granted it cannot be eliminated completely. And consequences - well, obviously if he has a tank failure, it will be a big job to replace. A big job, but not an impossible job. So if Rick decides not to install a large tank hatch, which I assume by his silence is his decision, then he obviously feels the risk does not warrant the additional time and effort.
Note that my 205 Osprey does not have a removable tank cover, nor do I plan to incorporate one into my 22-2 rebuild. And I am honestly not too worried about either. Both have poly tanks though. If I had an aluminum tank, my position may be a little different :wink: .
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I made sure to make a sketch of stringer/bulkhead locations incase i ever need to cut anything for whatever reason. If i ever need to cut id take the whole console with it just to have seams on the floor to glass back together. Confident in the install i guess haha.
More work/time up front VS. maybeee some work down the road and a simpler/cleaner install is how i looked at it
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Craig, as you say, what is the probability of failure? To that probability must be assigned a risk. Everyone has their own risk value in terms of the tank install. The first judgement is the tank material. Some of us are big on plastic. Others not so much.
In the end, it gets down to expectations, longevity, and what the future holds. In my case, I'll never sell my Aquasport. It was a labor of love. I'm not thirty anymore, and I'll keep her the rest of my life. When I'm gone, good Lord willing, my heirs forty years from now will not be dealing with a leaking tank.
And yep, you're right. Rick by his silence is contemplating the decision. He is our mod, friend and fellow member. He has done a terrific job on this build.
Given the effort Rick has put forth...I'd go with the hatch and complete the job. That's just me, keeping a specific hull for the rest of my life.
Others may not be so inclined, non-committal to the hull, maybe for sale later, not sure...absolutely, forget the tank hatch.
In that case, the right move. As mentioned earlier, went round and round on the decision.
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My brain is still on the console - sorry :mrgreen:
Got a couple layers of cloth on it Sunday.
As for the hatch, I could go either way. The problem is that the hatch would be on the outside of the console since the tank coffin is larger than the console. If I glass the console to the tank hatch, will it be as strong as if I glassed it to the solid deck? Still have some thinking to do on this while I move forward on the console.
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My brain is still on the console - sorry :mrgreen:
Got a couple layers of cloth on it Sunday.
As for the hatch, I could go either way. The problem is that the hatch would be on the outside of the console since the tank coffin is larger than the console. If I glass the console to the tank hatch, will it be as strong as if I glassed it to the solid deck? Still have some thinking to do on this while I move forward on the console.
Our hatch was outside of the console too.
Hatch screwed to the stringer tops, inside lip of the console toe-kick screwed to the hatch. Screws are hidden inside the console. T-Top bolted to the console and hatch.
As the hatch is screwed to the stringers, probably the most rigid area on the deck.
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you could always make the gas tank hatch and then glass over it (so you'd have a solid run of glass as though it wasn't there) for strength and a smooth transition. Then glass your console to that.
then if you ever needed to pull the tank, you could just score the top layer of glass,remove the screws, and pull the lid. (I know not "just")... but it could be a pretty simple alternative that would give you both benefits of lid/no lid...
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No access tank hatch in my build and I went with a aluminum tank
It's a foam free install and the tank sits on two short stringers so it can drain and breath
All that holds it in place are hangers that bolt thru the stringers
My tank starts in front of my console and has two small pie excess plates, one for sender/pick up then one for the fill/vent
If I ever had to replace the tank it would not be that hard, I like the clean deck, its crazy strong and it really seems to me that most factory tank hatches will leak and cause the tanks to fail
No regrets on my decision
Capt Matt
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A little progress .... I need to build up the glass thickness to match the existing console thickness, I figure a couple more layers tomorrow should do it. Using 1.5oz mat to build it up - should have figured some heavier cloth into the schedule :roll:
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0860.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8100&title=cimg0860&cat=646)
With chopped mat you can pull some glass from the edges and the result, besides the extra glass strands (which I put in a bucket), is that it will traverse a corner - you're actually pulling part of the glass out so plan to overlap/pull glass out of the mating glass.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0861.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8101&title=cimg0861&cat=646)
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I have a couple of layers to go
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0862.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8102&title=cimg0862&cat=646)
Started filling the old holes in the console - will need a few more layers
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0863.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8103&title=cimg0863&cat=646)
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Then, while the console was doing it's hardening thing, I started cutting the sole in - came out not too shabby. :cheers: The casting deck comes in at 10.5 ft and what you see is 12ft of sole.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0865.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8105&title=cimg0865&cat=646)
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Got the sole glassed on both sides - Poly on one side (top) and epoxy on the other.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0868.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8108&title=cimg0868&cat=646)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0870.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8110&title=cimg0870&cat=646)
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Looking really good, Rick! What did you use for glass on each side?
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On the top I have a layer of 3/4oz and on the bottom a layer of 1708.
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Wow, I was under the impression that 1 or 2 layers of 1708 per side was needed for the honeycomb cores, with perhaps a layer of 3/4 mat on top to give a smoother finish. How solid does it feel?
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Pretty work!
Wow, I was under the impression that 1 or 2 layers of 1708 per side was needed for the honeycomb cores, with perhaps a layer of 3/4 mat on top to give a smoother finish. How solid does it feel?
I would guess hes waiting til its in the boat to do the rest so its lighter to lift and move?
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I'll top it with two layers of 1708 - just trying to get it all connected and stable right now. It is getting heavy already.
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I'll top it with two layers of 1708 - just trying to get it all connected and stable right now. It is getting heavy already.
:thumleft: makes sense!
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Lam'd another layer of 1708 on the bottom of the sole yesterday and this morning my wife and I lifted it onto the saw horses - maybe weighs 60-70 lbs now.
I marked the sole where the stringers are, the tank coffin is, where the old console sat (aft side) and where the casting deck starts just to visualize everything.
Then I rolled the console up and placed it on the sole where the old sat and where the new will sit.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0876.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8140&title=cimg0876&cat=646)
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(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0877.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8141&title=cimg0877&cat=646)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0878.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8142&title=cimg0878&cat=646)
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(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0879.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8143&title=cimg0879&cat=646)
Scruffed up the console and lam'd another 2 layers of 1.5oz on the sides and added a few layers to fill in the holes on the front
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0880.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8144&title=cimg0880&cat=646)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0881.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8145&title=cimg0881&cat=646)
Another weekend gone.
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Like the toe kick :salut:
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It'll be cool I think - the console is kinda wide so that'll make it a little easier to walk to the front.
I also cut a pipe in and glued it in for routing the bilge pump discharge hose to the Starboard side and glued some pipe in for the gas tank fill and vent hoses to pass through. So the little things are getting done too.
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It's really coming together, Rick. I like what you are doing with the console. I don't have one for my 22-2, and I haven't found one yet that quite meets my needs exactly. So you are inspiring me to think about making one myself. Not convinced I can do it yet...but I'm thinking about it :roll:
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Thanks Craig, one day (weekend day) at a time....
The only reason I kept the same console and didn't build my own (even though I kinda did) is that I like the windshield I have (a place to hide behind) and also I already have a custom cover for the boat and I don't want to have to modify that (may have to though since I raised the sole a couple inches).
If you have no console now figure out how you want it and build your own out of light plywood and a few layers of glass. There are several great examples of homemade consoles here - you can handle this. You might even want to build it out composites to save weight but it has to be able to hold a screw if you're mounting pumps and stuff. My console is already too heavy for me to lift and move, maybe in my younger days, but not now. I can lift it but it's too bulky to do anything but lift it straight up (maybe I'm getting smarter instead of weaker :idea: ).
The big success of this weekend was to see, after I drew the stringers on the sole and set the console, that I don't have to move my rigging pipes :cheers:
I think the next step is to figure out my hatch situation and how to handle them with this composite stuff.
The time I'm spending now doing what I'm doing will hopefully pay off - one of these weekends I will have the floor and the console in at the same time.
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Rick real nice I think I am going to do the same on my console.
You might need to switch to the 4 day weekend. :mrgreen:
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I wish :roll:
It is coming up on the time of the year that I take all my vacation at once - should get a ton done then.
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Today I spent time getting the console close to being finished. I mixed up some thickened poly and used it to fair the the console out - took two different recipes and two applications and I think it is pretty much done. Then I laid a 3/4oz layer over the complete outside to build it up a little and I'll see how it looks tomorrow after I get all the dust out of my eyes. Still have to trim it all up.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0882.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8161&title=cimg0882&cat=646)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0883.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8162&title=cimg0883&cat=646)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0884.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8163&title=cimg0884&cat=646)
I think tomorrow I will start the seat for the console - should take a couple hours. Have to figure out a few things while I'm sleeping tonight but should be a piece of cake otherwise.
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I scruffed up the new 3/4oz lam and put in the backers for the seat
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0893.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8172&title=cimg0893&cat=646)
Then I dry cut all the materials - 1.5oz, 1808, 1708 and 1.5oz - removed that and set it aside. Then I laid visqueen over the backers and over the sides. Called my wife out to give me more hands and started mixing resin and lamming it up. When done (had to mix two more batches of resin through the process - stuff really soaked it up) I covered it with plastic and then put some corner brackets (bought a moving box from HD and cut it into 6" strips, doubled them up and folded them over the corners - obviously done before the start) on the corners and strapped then down to make sure the cloth would make the corners.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0885.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8164&title=cimg0885&cat=646)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0886.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8165&title=cimg0886&cat=646)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0887.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8166&title=cimg0887&cat=646)
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After a bit - I really like the predictability of poly, epoxy hardens when it "feels like it" - I let it sit for an hour and a half while I cleaned up everything, I took off the straps and peeled off the outer plastic
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0888.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8167&title=cimg0888&cat=646)
Then I popped it off to see what it looked like
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0889.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8168&title=cimg0889&cat=646)
The top of the back is about 2" too tall - it needs to drop in right below the windshield frame.
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Then I peeled off the bottom plastic
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0891.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8170&title=cimg0891&cat=646)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0892.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8171&title=cimg0892&cat=646)
Here is a glimpse of the seat on the console - of course it needs to be trimmed up and pampered a bit.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0894.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8173&title=cimg0894&cat=646)
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That came out SLICK!!! :salut:
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You definitely have some talent, Rick! What did you use to thicken the poly for fairing?
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Rick it's looking great. I was working on my console today too cutting the bottom lip off to do my version of a toe kick. Now I want to make a fold up seat too. :mrgreen:
Are you planning on hinging it to fold up for easy access the inside of the console?
If so I noticed a yellowfin with that type of design. Very sweet.
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You definitely have some talent, Rick! What did you use to thicken the poly for fairing?
Thanks Craig. I used poly, chopped fibers and cabosil in the first batch and made it really thick. In the second I used just poly and cabosil and made it a little less thick.
Rick it's looking great. I was working on my console today too cutting the bottom lip off to do my version of a toe kick. Now I want to make a fold up seat too. :mrgreen:
Are you planning on hinging it to fold up for easy access the inside of the console?
If so I noticed a yellowfin with that type of design. Very sweet.
Don't forget to take pics for us to see. :cheers:
This seat will be hinged at the front and will fold forward and lay on the casting deck opening up the whole console.
After I do some grinding on the seat and trim off the extra glass all the way around I will take the "backers" and cut them down a bit and then glue them to the underside of the seat for support. I will have to glue in a frame of sorts on the backrest portion of the console so I can glue in some foam to cushion the seat so it doesn't rattle.
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Oh Rick! You stole my thunder... :P I am doing the same thing with my console. After quite a few beers while staring at it and trying to figure out the best access to get to the batteries and wiring I decided that having the seat hinged is the most logical way to do it. The only diference is that I will hinge mine at the top. I think it will make it easier to crawl in the console by not having the seat in the way (if it is to flip forward).
Also, IT LOOKS AWESOME :!: I agree with CLM, you have some serious talent Sir :salut: :salut: :salut: . The cardboard "forms" definitely take a lot of the work out of the work. Very clean.
You are the man. :cheers:
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Thanks Carl.
Staring at the project is a fond past-time of mine :lol: If I could recoup all the time I've wasted staring :roll:
How will you keep the hatch open? Gas Cylinders?
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How will you keep the hatch open? Gas Cylinders?
Yes, well that is the plan.
Staring at the project is a fond past-time of mine If I could recoup all the time I've wasted staring
I think that is true for all of us. :lol:
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What if you used pinned hinges that you could take apart? That way you could take the seat totally out of your way if you need to do some work in the console?
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What if you used pinned hinges that you could take apart? That way you could take the seat totally out of your way if you need to do some work in the console?
Agreed... Looking good!
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X3 on the pinned hinges Rick or a barrel hinge that has easy pins to move.. You are going to all the effort for killer access, ma. The seat completely removable and you will not regret it!!!!
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What if you used pinned hinges that you could take apart? That way you could take the seat totally out of your way if you need to do some work in the console?
Got any examples? I am torn between a piano hinge that can be hidden and 2 hinges in plain view. I think the piano hinge would be more stable than 2 small hinges but if I could remove the whole seat that would be better. If you think about it, how often are you going to be going into the console after the initial install and the install of all the goodies?
Actually with that train of thought, I am going to have 2 locking "strap locks" - one on each side - I could do 2 more in the front and maybe 2 on the sides of the seat bottom.
(http://thumbs.ebaystatic.com/pict/321139263783.jpg)
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Not exactly the most stylish ones, but I think this is the basic idea...
Here's the link:
http://www.overtons.com/modperl/product/details.cgi?pdesc=Sea-Dog-Removable-Pin-Butt-Hinge-2&i=82749&r=view&aID=601J1&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=googlebase&s_kwcid=googlepla&cvsfa=2587&cvsfe=2&cvsfhu=3832373439
I think this hinge idea is an excellent one :idea: It will definitely make easy access without the seat at all.
Thank you. :salut:
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Some of the "Take Apart" hinges might work well as long as you have the clearance to slide to one side to disengage the hinge pin:
http://www.defender.com/product3.jsp?pa ... id=2331120 (http://www.defender.com/product3.jsp?path=-1|10918|2303361|2303367&id=2331120)
http://www.marinepartdepot.com/ststpuhi.html (http://www.marinepartdepot.com/ststpuhi.html)
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I was thinking if you hinged it up you could even mount something like a amp or other electrical items to the back of the door. So when you hinged it up you would have real access to those items.
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I may have problems making the seat hinge up because of the windshield frame that fits around the console.
For locking latches I was thinking of something like this
(http://www.designworldonline.com/uploads/Imagegallery/Steel_&_Stainless_Steel_Toggle_Hook_Latches.jpg)
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Ive always had good luck with these. No sharp metal to cut you and they've got a pretty low profile.
http://greatlakesskipper.com/media/cata ... 9-1-lg.jpg (http://greatlakesskipper.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/thumbnail/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/3/1/31589-1-lg.jpg)
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I used one of these on my anchor locker when I re-cored it. After numerous soakings with salt spray still looks nice. It folds really flat so not much sticking up to catch things.
http://www.mcmaster.com/#1406a46/=orghjo (http://www.mcmaster.com/#1406a46/=orghjo)
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While all great ideas, still too modern for such a classic.
Go retro with a classic clasp that has stood the test of time.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/bent_nail_3.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8181&title=bent-nail-3&cat=500)
To "pimp it up", go stainless but it may be harder to bend.
Good luck. :thumleft:
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Finally got freed up from work and got back at the project.
Cleaned up the seat, trimmed it down to 1.5" lip around most of the seat and ground it to a nice finish. The seat was built out of poly and I figured I needed to add something for the backer to "bite" onto so I added a layer of 3/4 oz.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0895.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8468&title=cimg0895&cat=646)
After that kicked I ground it lightly and mixed up a putty of epoxy and troweled it on
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0896.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8469&title=cimg0896&cat=646)
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and set the backer into the putty
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0897.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8470&title=cimg0897&cat=646)
Then I filled in the honeycomb
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0898.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8471&title=cimg0898&cat=646)
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(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0899.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8472&title=cimg0899&cat=646)
And then put some blocks on it for the night.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0900.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8473&title=cimg0900&cat=646)
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Sunday I repeated the process on the backrest (note to self - put some plastic under the block so they don't stick to the backer :roll: )
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0902.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8475&title=cimg0902&cat=646)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0903.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8476&title=cimg0903&cat=646)
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While that was doing it's thing I brought out the windshield and tried it on the new console to make sure I didn't build it up too much. Fits fine
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0904.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8477&title=cimg0904&cat=646)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0907.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8480&title=cimg0907&cat=646)
I pried the blocks off the backer tonight (all 3 were glued to it tight) and picked it up and I tell you, the seat picked up at least 10+ lbs and is rock solid. It had a little flex in the panels before the backers, now, no flex at all. I could probably stand on the seat.
Next thing to do is lay a layer of cloth over the backer and up the lip and that will make it rock solid.
I test fit it (just in case) and it fits perfect. :cheers:
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Glad your back at it Rick. Are you going to be able to slip out of the house some during thanksgiving weekend?
I will start frying turkey and slip off and do something on the boat. :mrgreen:
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Glad your back at it Rick. Are you going to be able to slip out of the house some during thanksgiving weekend?
I will start frying turkey and slip off and do something on the boat. :mrgreen:
Actually starting on Thanksgiving day I'm starting my vacation and will be off for just shy of a month (maybe I'll squeek a couple more days out) so I'll definitely be putting a dent in this work - really looking forward to it.
Sometime during this vacation I will take a couple days away during one of the weeks and take the big boat out camping - the missus and I need that. We can cherry pick the weather.
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Excellent on the work, best on the campout. Glad you're back at it too.
The forward console seats on all of our old boats were/are a weak link.
Nice job on the refit :thumright:
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Very cool Rick. I have been missing your posts... I'm glad you are back at it too. :thumleft:
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Totally awesome console Rick. Love it! Cant wait to see it finished but enjoying the play by play. I want to get into composites someday so im glad to see different ways they can be used. I would love to incorporate some into my pilot house but damn are they pricey.
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Thanks guys :salut:
In hindsight I should have done the console extension in Plascore too for weight considerations but my initial thinking was that I needed to "back" the fiberglass with something that would hold a screw for all the mounting and rigging work that will be done inside it so figured since I had the 3/4" marine ply I might as well do it all in that. Water under the bridge now.
Have been busy spending money though :roll:
Ordered and received bilge pump, hose and exhaust ports.
Ordered and received fill and vent cap.
Purchased fuel line from tank to engine.
Ordered and received nav lights (think I mentioned that already)
Ordered and received all the battery cables and lugs for the engine and trolling motor - sure is pricey stuff.
Purchased posts to mount the battery cables up front - looking for the right plug now for the trolling motor.
Ordered and received another set of latches to secure the seat.
Ordered and received a flush compass for the console.
Ordered and received 2 qts of white epoxy paint for the bilge and maybe the underside of the console seat.
Ordered 2 kill switches : one for the Trolling motor and one for the engine (http://i.ebayimg.com/t/MARINE-BATTERY-ISOLATOR-KILL-SWITCH-FOR-BOATS-500-amps-175-amps-FIVE-OCEANS-/00/s/MTAyNFgxMDI0/$(KGrHqVHJFYE-k-7l4rbBPw4+BTf0Q~~60_12.JPG)
The two systems will be isolated so I don't need anything fancy like I made on the 230. I have some ideas of where and how I'm going to mount the kill switches - stay tuned.
Happy Thanksgivings Day to all. Too chilly to do anything on the boat today, will start warming tomorrow.
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Nice list Rick - seems more like Christmas than Thanksgiving! Where did you get the wire from?
It was 35 degrees here this morning. Brrrrrr. Keep up the great work and have a Happy Thanksgiving!
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Nice list Rick - seems more like Christmas than Thanksgiving! Where did you get the wire from?
It was 35 degrees here this morning. Brrrrrr. Keep up the great work and have a Happy Thanksgiving!
Craig, right now, genuinedealz has 2GA for $3.25/ft, but no shipping cost. Greg's Marine Wire (where I get mine from) has 2GA for $2.69/ft, +shipping. Greg's works out cheaper, for the same quality...
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Nice list Rick - seems more like Christmas than Thanksgiving! Where did you get the wire from?
It was 35 degrees here this morning. Brrrrrr. Keep up the great work and have a Happy Thanksgiving!
Yup, been rat-holing parts for a while. Wire is from Greg's wire http://gregsmarinewiresupply.com/Zen/ (http://gregsmarinewiresupply.com/Zen/) I have some good history with them and the prices are about the best (some other place was a few cents a ft cheaper) - quick 2day USPS delivery too. (34 lb box :shock: )
It was about 40 here for a while - now it's 47ish. Our northern brethren have it much worse then us and it doesn't warm up like here by 10am. Stay warm friends.
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Nice work, Rick! Your mitering for the backer boards looks excellent! Nice clean joints/seams all around. :salut:
Happy T-day and VACATION! :cheers:
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Rick, if you don't have a crimper to crimp on your lugs, you can borrow mine.
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Rick, if you don't have a crimper to crimp on your lugs, you can borrow mine.
Thanks for the offer Bob. I bought one of those HF hydraulic crimpers a while back when we were talking about this, probably a year ago - work great. :salut:
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Happy Thanksgiving!
Wanna warm up? Cook some collards :thumright:
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Never mind... :wink: :wink:
But if anyone ever needs to borrow mine, you are all welcome to it. I just send it, you send it back. I use mine all the time, whereas someone else might just need it for a few crimps, then never need it again. A friend of mine on the Mako forum needed a couple larger hole saws for a project (he's in Apex, NC), so I sent him mine, he sent them back, all are happy.
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Added the last layer to the seat - I would say the seat now weighs in at probably around 20lbs+ and rock solid. Trimmed it up a bit yesterday.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0909.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8563&title=cimg0909&cat=646)
This is the seat installed and a pic taken from below the console - nice fit.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0908.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8562&title=cimg0908&cat=646)
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Took the plunge, so to speak, and cut the access panel out of the floor.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0910.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8564&title=cimg0910&cat=646)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0912.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8566&title=cimg0912&cat=646)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0913.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8567&title=cimg0913&cat=646)
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(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0914.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8568&title=cimg0914&cat=646)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0915.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8569&title=cimg0915&cat=646)
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Trimmed both sides of the cut back a little so I could get a tight fit after glassing. Cut some Jasper board (foam board) to line the edges and give something to apply glass to.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0918.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8572&title=cimg0918&cat=646)
Routed the edge of the panels and receivers
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0919.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8573&title=cimg0919&cat=646)
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(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0922.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8576&title=cimg0922&cat=646)
Then cut the Jasper board, drilled some pilot holes, epoxied the edges and temporarily nailed the board to the ledge.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0923.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8577&title=cimg0923&cat=646)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0924.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8578&title=cimg0924&cat=646)
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(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0925.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8579&title=cimg0925&cat=646)
Then started working the board down a bit
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0926.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8580&title=cimg0926&cat=646)
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(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0928.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8582&title=cimg0928&cat=646)
Started to lay cloth and CSM in to make it a nice fit - still have some of that to do today.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0929.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8583&title=cimg0929&cat=646)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0930.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8584&title=cimg0930&cat=646)
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(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0931.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8585&title=cimg0931&cat=646)
Looks like it is a good fit now but it really isn't - getting there though
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0932.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8586&title=cimg0932&cat=646)
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Had this guy show up and tell me it was beer thirty, so I took the hint
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0934.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8588&title=cimg0934&cat=646)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0935.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8589&title=cimg0935&cat=646)
I have to get the last layer of cloth to transition the edges of the hatches and the receivers and I've tried manually with no luck. Purchased a vacuum press rig yesterday, that'll pull that cloth down nicely :salut: Should get it Monday.
CircleHooked dropped by to check the progress, was good to see you Scott, been a while.
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Rick, I always look forward to your posts. It must feel good to be getting closer to putting the sole down.
Now that you have quite a bit of working with the plascore under your belt, do you have any other tips or tricks about working with it? I still haven't picked any up yet.
Great work as always!
EDIT: What kind of vacuum system did you buy?
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Excellent, Rick :thumleft: ! Will the tank hatch rest on the stringers? Or will you need to build some sort of lip to hold it up?
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Rick, I always look forward to your posts. It must feel good to be getting closer to putting the sole down.
Thanks Carl - appreciate it and I know you and the other rebuilders know what I'm going through. I actually told my wife "Part of the rebuild is staring at the part of the project I'm working on, not working on it, just staring" :lol: Then I caught myself the other morning telling her, as I was heading out to work on it, "I'm going out to stare at the deck" and she replied "have fun" :D
I still have a bit of work in the hull before I nail this baby down (figure of speech of course :wink: ) I have to figure out how to remove the last foot or so of the rigging tubes as they enter the tank area. I'd really prefer to have the sole in before I put the tank in and the way I drilled the holes in the stringers to route the tubes and connected the PVC, I need the tank in before I foam the stringers in. Have to figure out a way to get a coupling inside the stringers, fore and aft of the tank, and still be able to use the coupler after I foam. Left side of the brain is on that now. Almost finished with the build up /tweak of the receivers of the hatches in the sole. I think I still have one more layer of 3/4oz in a couple places and it'll be ready for the final cloth to roll over the edge. In hindsight I should have not trimmed back as much as I did, but oh well.
Now that you have quite a bit of working with the plascore under your belt, do you have any other tips or tricks about working with it? I still haven't picked any up yet.
The stuff is real easy to work with. On pieces I am using for supports and bulkheads I used one layer of 1708 on each side. I think the mfr says 2 on one side one on the other minimum but I think that is for something horizontal. For the sole I have 2 layers on the bottom and one on the top right now. To cut it, it's like cutting butter since most of what you are cutting is the layers of glass you laid. I use Sterling blades on my jigsaw - pricey little beasts but seem to work well on the Plascore and well on fiberglass in general. I have not gotten to the part of having to reinforce holes in the plascore yet. I will have a few holes to deal with on the tank hatch - stay tuned.
EDIT: What kind of vacuum system did you buy?
This is what I bought with the PodZ kit http://www.veneersupplies.com/products/ ... ystem.html (http://www.veneersupplies.com/products/Excel-5-Continuous-Run-Vacuum-Press-System.html) - been going back and forth for years on a vacuum system for my wood working passion and this project tipped me over the edge. Could have built it for less but time was the issue. Need your help on the techniques though :mrgreen:
I think I want to not only do the hatches but maybe lay other layer of glass over the top via vacuum.
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Excellent, Rick :thumleft: ! Will the tank hatch rest on the stringers? Or will you need to build some sort of lip to hold it up?
Thanks Craig. I split the width of the stringers. You can see the stringers drawn on the deck and also in one pic of the tank hatch you can see the inside outline of the console and how it's tapered.
Received the stereo today (didn't realize it had a 400W amp in the kit :shock: ), more epoxy came in :( , received two battery gauges (1-12v and 1-24v), received BlueSeas fuse block and switch panel. Like an early Christmas :cheers:
I'm thinking it would be easier to cut all the holes in the console before I gelcoat it so I don't mess that up. What do you guys think? I know SB probably doesn't get that option, the console is done when he gets it.
Hey SB, think it is worth rigging the console on the bench for what I can pre-wire before I put the console in the boat? Sure save my back :idea:
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As Rick said I stopped by to see him yesterday, let me tell you guys, these pic's don't do this re build justice, to see it in person, WOW what a job your doing Rick.
Received the stereo today (didn't realize it had a 400W amp in the kit :shock:
Guess your going to be Rockin the boat more then you thought :thumright:
I'm thinking it would be easier to cut all the holes in the console before I gelcoat it so I don't mess that up
I think that's a great idea, rig whatever you can on the bench
Rick it was great seeing you again, it sucked that it was such a short visit, I'll stop by again when I have some more time to spend, maybe Monday.
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Nice work Rick :thumright: That is the BIGGEST stinkbug I've ever seen.
Great idea on pre-rigging the console. See no reason why it would be disadvantageous in terms of the gel to follow, and for sure much easier sitting on a bench, table, etc.
EDIT while posting: Scott am sure you're right. The way it began you could tell it was going to be deluxe :wink:
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Rick, you are absolutely correct. Do WHATEVER you can off the boat, in comfort, at your leisure.
When I picked up my consoles from sub-assy at the plant, every single thing that could be done without it being in the boat was done. If one didn't care about looks and routing, once the console was bolted down, 20 minutes later it would be rigged...all wiring, controls, steering, whatever.
But we cared... :salut:
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Rick the console, deck, and hatches look real nice. You mention you were going to gel coat the console didn't you use epoxy on it?
I was wondering how to terminate the open cell plasticore . Now I know. :mrgreen:
I have jumped on the vacuum band wagon too and purchased a pump yesterday. Are you going to buy all the bagging supplies from one of the fiberglass suppliers or make due with lesser expensive visqeen?
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I was wondering how to terminate the open cell plasticore . Now I know.
ZACTLY!!!!!! :mrgreen:
Thank you Rick. :thumleft: :thumright:
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See no reason why it would be disadvantageous in terms of the gel to follow, and for sure much easier sitting on a bench, table, etc.
I will gel the console inside and out before rigging and gel it while it's up on my portable table. :cheers:
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Rick, here is what I was thinking.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//686/bagging.png)
Sealing the bag to the concrete might work too, I would test it out just for the heck of it if you want too. Remember that the "peel ply" layer should be perforated so that it can squeeze the excess resin out of the laminate. Also, I would recommend a trap for the resin just in case you pull some resin up into the vacuum hose.
One more recommendation would be to try a dry run or two before you do the real thing, just so you can get a feel for it.
Good luck Sir! :salut:
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Rick the console, deck, and hatches look real nice.
Thanks man - we have a lot of good stuff going on here, learning everywhere we turn.
You mention you were going to gel coat the console didn't you use epoxy on it?
Epoxy below the sole, poly above.
I was wondering how to terminate the open cell plasticore . Now I know. :mrgreen:
I didn't know either - what I can't figure out or learn from you guys I contact and get guidance from Chris (dirtwheelsfl) - smart guy.
I have jumped on the vacuum band wagon too and purchased a pump yesterday. Are you going to buy all the bagging supplies from one of the fiberglass suppliers or make due with lesser expensive visqeen?
What did you get?
I'm really not sure what I want to use for supplies. I use some of Warthog's work as a guide too and he is a vacuum officiano.
Here are a couple pix where he isn't "bagging" but using some 2 faced tape right again the target area and I assume visqueen?
(http://www.classicmako.com/projects/xshark/images/fdb6ea2b.jpg)
(http://www.classicmako.com/projects/xshark/images/File0035.jpg)
That's the kind of "bagging" I have in mind right away.
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Rick, here is what I was thinking.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//686/bagging.png)
Sealing the bag to the concrete might work too, I would test it out just for the heck of it if you want too. Remember that the "peel ply" layer should be perforated so that it can squeeze the excess resin out of the laminate. Also, I would recommend a trap for the resin just in case you pull some resin up into the vacuum hose.
One more recommendation would be to try a dry run or two before you do the real thing, just so you can get a feel for it.
Good luck Sir! :salut:
That's some good stuff :salut:
What do you use for the "trap"? Where do you put it?
I guess you could go through a lot of batting in this process.
Working with poly I see that I will have to step down the MEK % a bit to get the working time I need to finish the bagging before it kicks.
I will do some dry runs sine I have NO clue right now.
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What do you use for the "trap"? Where do you put it?
Honestly, I didn't use one, I didn't even use a gauge! :lol: But I don't have a nice setup like what you are getting either... I would just put it inline wherever it is convenient.
I guess you could go through a lot of batting in this process.
Yes, it is a one time use kind of thing. That is why I went with the batting...it is half the price of real breather and works just the same.
Working with poly I see that I will have to step down the MEK % a bit to get the working time I need to finish the bagging before it kicks.
That and you could refrigerate the resin or ice it down before mixing it too.That's some good stuff
No problem Rick! :cheers:
I can PM my number if you want too. don't know how much more help I could, be but I'll try.
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Rick go to us composites website they have all the bagging supplies. From t here I read the descriptions of the products used and compared them to what everybody like Carl is using. I have not decided if I am going to use their stuff or not. The problem I see is after spending all the time and materials on the mold,fiberglass, gel coat, and resin why not spend a few more bucks and use the approved bagging supplies. Then I would know I had the best chance of a good looking quality part with as little sanding and fairing as possible. I have had plenty of practice at that. :roll:
I went in the direction of Carl and purchased a oil vacuum used in ac work. It is a Robinare 8-cfm double stage pump for $225.00 off of amazon.
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Rick the console, deck, and hatches look real nice.
Thanks man - we have a lot of good stuff going on here, learning everywhere we turn.
You mention you were going to gel coat the console didn't you use epoxy on it?
Epoxy below the sole, poly above.
I was wondering how to terminate the open cell plasticore . Now I know. :mrgreen:
I didn't know either - what I can't figure out or learn from you guys I contact and get guidance from Chris (dirtwheelsfl) - smart guy.
I have jumped on the vacuum band wagon too and purchased a pump yesterday. Are you going to buy all the bagging supplies from one of the fiberglass suppliers or make due with lesser expensive visqeen?
What did you get?
I'm really not sure what I want to use for supplies. I use some of Warthog's work as a guide too and he is a vacuum officiano.
Here are a couple pix where he isn't "bagging" but using some 2 faced tape right again the target area and I assume visqueen?
(http://www.classicmako.com/projects/xshark/images/fdb6ea2b.jpg)
(http://www.classicmako.com/projects/xshark/images/File0035.jpg)
That's the kind of "bagging" I have in mind right away.
Warthog is on CM?
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Fish, I have no doubt that you 100% correct that you will get a better finish with the actual products. A little bit of forethought on my part and I would have at least ordered the peel ply with my last order, that is the biggest piece of the puzzle for a quality finish. However, since I didn't order any with my last big order, the shipping makes is very cost prohibitive and effectively doubles the price.
I am yet to find a responsibly local source for glassing supplies.
I guess that is part of the punishment for living in the great white north. :roll:
For those of us the live in parts of the country, for what it is worth, I would at least buy actual peel ply. It is extremely flexible and much less likely to wrinkle. My feeling will not be hurt by you guys using the real deal instead of my "ghetto bagging" method. :lol: :thumleft:
Also, I saw that fibreglast sells stretchlon, which is a very good product. I have seen it used at work, and it seems to be much more forgiving that a traditional bag material.
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Rick, here is what I was thinking.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//686/bagging.png)
Sealing the bag to the concrete might work too, I would test it out just for the heck of it if you want too. Remember that the "peel ply" layer should be perforated so that it can squeeze the excess resin out of the laminate. Also, I would recommend a trap for the resin just in case you pull some resin up into the vacuum hose.
One more recommendation would be to try a dry run or two before you do the real thing, just so you can get a feel for it.
Good luck Sir! :salut:
Great drawing, just one question, isn't the manifold supposed to be on top of the peel ply and batting? I am just asking cause it would seem the manifold would suck up the resin before it hit the batting. I am learning from ya'll so forgive my ignorance. Wrenches are one thing, gooy, sticky, itchy stuff is a whole nother :oops:
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Oh man! <!-- s:shock: -->:shock:<!-- s:shock: --> Good catch. <!-- s:salut: -->:salut:<!-- s:salut: -->
I guess I shouldn't post before I wake up all of the way. <!-- s:oops: -->:oops:<!-- s:oops: -->
Yes, the manifold goes on top of the breather layer.
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Warthog is on CM?
Yup, and he's a member here but hasn't been around in a while.
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Warthog is on CM?
Yup, and he's a member here but hasn't been around in a while.
Yep, little over 5 years since he checked in. :|
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I added more CSM to the edges of the receivers where needed and then made a jig to apply some thickened resin along all the edges to get the right radius. Took 2 applications and the edges and gaps seem to be what I need now :cheers:
My buddy Ed and I hoisted the console onto the sole and lined up where the faint lines showed the outline and I realized that the lines were the outside of the toekick instead of what I said earlier which makes it even better :thumleft:
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0936.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8600&title=cimg0936&cat=646)
I needed to make sure that my calcs were right and I can get the 3 batteries in under the seat
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0937.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8601&title=cimg0937&cat=646)
I will add another layer of Plascore to beef it up under the batteries - good vertical clearance for this. :thumleft:
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This is the intent of the seat for access - take it off and set it somewhere for the time needed.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0938.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8602&title=cimg0938&cat=646)
You can see how the batteries fit in the tapered console and also how the console sits on the hatch.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0939.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8603&title=cimg0939&cat=646)
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I asked my buddy Ed to lift the seat and he figured it weighs at least 30 lbs. I stood on it and it was like standing on the driveway. :cheers:
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0940.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8604&title=cimg0940&cat=646)
I traced the in and outline of the console and it looks like I will be able to glass the console to the hatch on the inside with no problems. The hatch will be bolted down to the stringers.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0941.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8605&title=cimg0941&cat=646)
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Warthog is on CM?
Yup, and he's a member here but hasn't been around in a while.
Rick do you have a link to his thread since it was so long ago? CM's search function is not very reliable.
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Bobby (Warthog) doesn't even play much on CM anymore...
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Rick do you have a link to his thread since it was so long ago? CM's search function is not very reliable.
Bunch of stuff happening on this rebuild to learn from.
http://www.classicmako.com/projects/xshark/ (http://www.classicmako.com/projects/xshark/)
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Rick do you have a link to his thread since it was so long ago? CM's search function is not very reliable.
Bunch of stuff happening on this rebuild to learn from.
http://www.classicmako.com/projects/xshark/ (http://www.classicmako.com/projects/xshark/)
I have been looking back in CM threads and warthog has a post dated early last year so it has not been too long since he has posted.
Thanks Rick I will check out the link.
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Wart's not real verbose in that "article" but you can learn a lot just "watching" the progress. Guess the boat is for sale now, maybe already sold since he's rebuilding another already. (a Parker)
This leads me into a little derail (and most know I'm not into this - some of us are "experts" at this)
I grew up in the infancy of the World Wide Web (http://www... (http://www...).) - building my first PC in '82 and being involved technically ever since thankfully. I am still amazed everyday at the info that is available on the web. I look at my kids and grandkids and it's amazing that they are so "a part" of the www and linked into it so deeply that if it doesn't exist they don't know how to exist. (I sense myself in this but won't admit it).
Schools have been and are now exploiting the wireless wonders, "issuing" web capable devices and communities are deploying the new "40 mile wireless" wifi. (This is the new freqs freed up when they did away with analog TV.)
My buddy Ed (65) is not "connected" except he has a "dumb" cell connection - old flip phone (not trying to insult those of you that have the same) - no internet connection. I tell him he is missing so much info and he blows me off saying "I don't need that stuff". I can't understand how he can't "want" to be connected - he's a football fanatic, a fishing fanatic, wannabee mechanic, etc. He is blissfully happy being disconnected - me, I'm twitching if I lose cell service so I lose business email - especially when I travel abroad.
I look at the info I've been able to discover on the recent endeavor into vacuum bagging and I'm not sure I could ever read all the results I found - I'm just flabbergasted at this while the younger generations (some not even knowing life without connectivity) look at me like "duhhhh, you didn't know that".
End of derail. (still trying to get through the 508,000 results on the search I did :roll: )
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Rick, you would probably agree with me that a lot has to do with...fear and insecurity. It's an inner thing, and it can't be explained. Those who wish to broaden their minds, expand their areas of expertise, to learn new things so that they may be better able to do what they want, to help others with their knowledge...those people are not afraid of things, not afraid of failure somewhere down the line. Failure goes with the knowledge territory, as, if we are smart, we learn from our mistakes. If we don't try something new, we won't fail, and all is right with the world...like your friend Ed.
My Dad is 83, my Mom is 81. Both are very computer literate, I absolutely love when either of them encounters a "problem" (which they used to call me up to come over and "fix" them), and one or the other emails me and says they figured out what was going on and all is well.
So obviously, it has nothing to do with age. It has EVERYTHING to do with learning, and all that goes along with it...
End of my part of the de-railment... :salut:
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In Ed's situation it's a monetary issue and since "he's never had it" he doesn't know the value (or what he's missing) and doesn't want to pay for it.
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What Ed says and what's the real deal are 2 different things... :wink:
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Rick, how thick is the lamination on your seat? It looks super stout, and it looks great :!:
That hatch is looking good too! :thumleft:
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Rick, how thick is the lamination on your seat? It looks super stout, and it looks great :!:
That hatch is looking good too! :thumleft:
The seat is backed with the same Plascore (3/4") that I made the sole out of. with a layer of 1708 on each side it comes in at about 7/8". That baby is stout (and heavy). Amazing how it went from just a couple pounds to what it is now :shock:
Hatches are about ready for the final layer of cloth.
Started measuring up everything and making circles and squares on the console and then I dug out my tach and fuel gauge and the tach was full of water :roll: Not sure how that got in there, it was inside a cooler. :scratch:
Just ordered a Teleflex driftwood tach and fuel gauge.
Going to start cutting holes today 8)
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Rick, how thick is the lamination on your seat? It looks super stout, and it looks great :!:
That hatch is looking good too! :thumleft:
The seat is backed with the same Plascore (3/4") that I made the sole out of. with a layer of 1708 on each side it comes in at about 7/8". That baby is stout (and heavy). Amazing how it went from just a couple pounds to what it is now :shock:
Hatches are about ready for the final layer of cloth.
Started measuring up everything and making circles and squares on the console and then I dug out my tach and fuel gauge and the tach was full of water :roll: Not sure how that got in there, it was inside a cooler. :scratch:
Just ordered a Teleflex driftwood tach and fuel gauge.
Going to start cutting holes today 8)
What a good excuse to buy a new set of gauges. :mrgreen:
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What a good excuse to buy a new set of gauges. :mrgreen:
B.O.A.T. :roll:
I made a "ledge" for the bilge access with 3 layers of 1708 - 6", 4" and 3" with epoxy and after a week (at least 3 days :roll: ) it hardened up enough to stick down around to the bilge access cutout.
My wife helped flip the sole (even lighter now :D ) and then I troweled thickened epoxy edge to edge, corner to corner and placed the "ledge" and then put some blocks on the "ledge" to stick it down.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0943.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8626&title=cimg0943&cat=646)
The next morning - it has full coverage of epoxy between the "ledge" and the bottom of the sole so I'm thinking even if I put on a few pounds and stood right on the hatch it still wouldn't budge. What I'm getting at is I think adding more lams to it to try to secure it to the sole is worthless.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0946.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8629&title=cimg0946&cat=646)
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As mentioned earlier I started cutting holes in the console - making it lighter one cut at a time :D
This is how thick the glass is on the face of the console (left 1/4" circle) and on the top where the helm mounts. Also the outside of the new addition is the same as the top :shock:
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0947.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8630&title=cimg0947&cat=646)
I cut the holes, dry fit them and then coated the exposed wood with epoxy resin.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0948.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8631&title=cimg0948&cat=646)
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I decided 2 of the 4 -6" speakers would be on the front of the console - If you look at the left hole you can see that I was burning through the cut - didn't realize the glass was 1/4" thick and it toasted the "wood" blade - I mean no teeth left on the blade :shock: I switched to a sterling blade and slowly cut the next hole.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0949.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8632&title=cimg0949&cat=646)
I'm still moving forward and one of the needed things is that I need to foam the stringers so I spent a while drilling 3" holes into the stringer tops - almost burnt up a 1/2 drill and definitely a 3" holesaw in the process. Even snapped off a drill bit in the process.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0950.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8633&title=cimg0950&cat=646)
I hope tomorrow to finish the rigging tube connections, glassing all of them in plus new supports across the "span" in the aft bilge and the front where the sole ends. We'll see how it goes - with epoxy I have no control using the "slow" hardener.
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Every time I see pics of the inside of your boat I am in awe. You really did and do a fantastic job.
I throw salutes around, but you really do beautiful work! :salut:
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Thanks Carl - trying my best, just like you and the rest.
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Rick, just spent half an hour catching up... looks great!
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Every time I see pics of the inside of your boat I am in awe. You really did and do a fantastic job.
I throw salutes around, but you really do beautiful work! :salut:
Totally agree. Thats a beautiful underbelly!
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Getting close now - getting the rigging tube in. Drilled a drain hole in the tubes
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0951.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8651&title=cimg0951&cat=646)
Lined every thing up and then glued them together - this was a BIG step for me - no going back now and tweeking things.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0952.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8652&title=cimg0952&cat=646)
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I glued both side in with no problems (if you've ever glued PVC and blinked at the wrong time....)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0953.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8653&title=cimg0953&cat=646)
You see the hammer in the previous pic and that was to drive the coupler into the hole in the tank area. I used a drum sander to hone out the holes until they were about perfect and tight. After I connected the pipes I used 5min epoxy to seal off the hole (think foam) and secure the pipes.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0954.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8654&title=cimg0954&cat=646)
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I glued in the front rigging tube. I will add some neoprene under the contact point :idea:
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0956.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8656&title=cimg0956&cat=646)
Then it was time to start sealing holes for the foam and securing the pipes so they don't rattle.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0958.JPG)
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Added some supports so the sole wouldn't flex being it's 5+ ft x 26" unsupported.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0959.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8659&title=cimg0959&cat=646)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0960.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8660&title=cimg0960&cat=646)
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(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0961.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8661&title=cimg0961&cat=646)
As I said - I'm ready - if the epoxy is dry enough to foam tomorrow morning I'm on it.
Oh, got the vacuum system today.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0957.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8657&title=cimg0957&cat=646)
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Looks really good Rick. All that time thinking everything through is really showing at this point. :cheers:
Is your pump oil less?
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Looks really good Rick. All that time thinking everything through is really showing at this point. :cheers:
Is your pump oil less?
Thanks man.
As for the pump I think it is but not sure yet.
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Sweet, Rick! Foam...a major milestone! You are going to have one solid boat there. The hole in the right stringer in that last picture gives a good shot of the thickness of your stringers :thumleft:
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Looks really good Rick. All that time thinking everything through is really showing at this point. :cheers:
Is your pump oil less?
Thanks man.
As for the pump I think it is but not sure yet.
If it is I found a tip if your going to use it inside. Add some hose from the outlet of the pump into a 5 gal bucket of soapy water to cut down on the oily fog created.
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Does oil-less means it spits oil or not?
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Sweet, Rick! Foam...a major milestone! You are going to have one solid boat there. The hole in the right stringer in that last picture gives a good shot of the thickness of your stringers :thumleft:
Thanks Craig - I measured (too late) and found that the stringer heights were 3/8" different measured from the top of the hull so I added that much to the starboard stringer to make sure both stringers were the same height - not sure how that happened but it did. Lots of glass to correct it. (Hope the boat doesn't list to that side :wink: )
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Rick, just spent half an hour catching up... looks great!
Thanks Rich.
Hows the FB doing?
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Does oil-less means it spits oil or not?
Means the pump does not run in a oil bath. You won't have the oil fog problem then.
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Rick...everything looks perfect. Even with the new pics...my eye keeps going to the tank coffin. Wow. Pascoe would be proud.
A constructive consideration...the bow PVC run below the casting deck rattling/making noise. If you feel the clearance is tight, maybe a slice of neoprene above the PVC tube. An incurable rattle at idle would suck. Mention this because a famous brand of pop-up cleat is known to chatter at idle.
Beautiful work....looking forward to the foam :thumright:
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Hey Rick,
Sorry if I missed it somewhere, I'm curious as to why you reduced the size of the rigging tubes instead of using either diameter the whole way?
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Looks really good Rick. All that time thinking everything through is really showing at this point. <!-- s:cheers: -->:cheers:<!-- s:cheers: -->
Is your pump oil less?
Thanks man.
As for the pump I think it is but not sure yet.
Specs from the site...
Specifications
Gast Model: 72R645-V160-D303X
Design: Oil-less Double Piston
Power Requirement: 120v AC Operation
Start-Up Amps: 12.5 (but does not require a relay)
Run Amps: 5.3
Exhaust Muffler: Included
Maximum Vacuum: 28" Hg
Maximum Bag Pressure: 1960 lbs/sqr ft
Air Evacuation: 5.5 CFM (at 0 pressure)
Port size: 1/4 NPT
Blower Design: Air-Over-Motor
Power Cord: 6' Attached Cord with Plug
Capacitor: Included
Construction: Permanently Lubricated Ball Bearings
Cylinder: Wetted Aluminum Alloy
Weight: 19 lbs
Sound Rating: 74 dB
I can't wait to see you put that pump to work. Did you decide to go with the correct supplies for vacuum bagging?
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Hey Rick,
Sorry if I missed it somewhere, I'm curious as to why you reduced the size of the rigging tubes instead of using either diameter the whole way?
The rigging tubes come in above the tank and the biggest I could go with and have them clear the tank is 2". My transom is not enclosed so the tubes could not come up and be exposed so I ran them to the corners where I'll build some cabinets to bring everything up and out of. Then I needed to be able to get the shift cables through the tubes and for that I went to 3" and 45s to be able to do that.
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Specs from the site...
Specifications
Gast Model: 72R645-V160-D303X
Design: Oil-less Double Piston
Power Requirement: 120v AC Operation
Start-Up Amps: 12.5 (but does not require a relay)
Run Amps: 5.3
Exhaust Muffler: Included
Maximum Vacuum: 28" Hg
Maximum Bag Pressure: 1960 lbs/sqr ft
Air Evacuation: 5.5 CFM (at 0 pressure)
Port size: 1/4 NPT
Blower Design: Air-Over-Motor
Power Cord: 6' Attached Cord with Plug
Capacitor: Included
Construction: Permanently Lubricated Ball Bearings
Cylinder: Wetted Aluminum Alloy
Weight: 19 lbs
Sound Rating: 74 dB
Thanks for posting that.
I can't wait to see you put that pump to work. Did you decide to go with the correct supplies for vacuum bagging?
I bought some double sided tape from a web vendor - not sure when I'll use it though <!-- s:? -->:?<!-- s:? --> . I also bought the heaviest plastic I could find at HD - 6 mil - to get me past the initial bagging. Even that was very pricey - like $24 for a 10x25.
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Rick...everything looks perfect. Even with the new pics...my eye keeps going to the tank coffin. Wow. Pascoe would be proud.
A constructive consideration...the bow PVC run below the casting deck rattling/making noise. If you feel the clearance is tight, maybe a slice of neoprene above the PVC tube. An incurable rattle at idle would suck. Mention this because a famous brand of pop-up cleat is known to chatter at idle.
Beautiful work....looking forward to the foam :thumright:
Yup, there'll be neoprene where it can make any noise.
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CircleHook and Josh stopped by yesterday and while they were here we flipped the sole over so I got to look at the ledge I glued in. Got a little ooze out in two places so the fit is little off. I'll grind that off soon.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0962.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8673&title=cimg0962&cat=646)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0963.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8674&title=cimg0963&cat=646)
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The foaming is done. Lewis called and gave me some tips on taping some tape covered wood blocks down over the holes as I went. Some worked and some didn't.
I learned after the first pour of 2 qts in the port stringer that I probably cut too many holes. I poured in the back one and it started coming out of the 2nd hole. So I quickly covered that and learned from that. The 2nd pour on the starboard stringer I taped the 2nd hole shut and poured and it came out great. :idea:
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0964.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8675&title=cimg0964&cat=646)
The 3rd pour I had it all planned out, tape the 4th hole and mix the same amount, well this time it came up and out of the 5th hole :roll: So I learned from that one too - stringers were less wide I guess.
Overall I didn't make too much of a mess. Didn't use a saw when I was removing the excess and had a little tear out - note to self for the future. This is a pic after cleaning up some of the eruptions.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0965.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8676&title=cimg0965&cat=646)
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Cut some 4"x4" cloth and pre-wet/rolled them with epoxy and laid them over the holes and rolled it out. Another check mark on the list.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0967.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8678&title=cimg0967&cat=646)
Maybe do some epoxy painting tomorrow.
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Congrats on the foam completion, Rick :cheers: ! Looks great! So let me get this straight...You mixed 2 quarts at a time (one quart of each part), and that was enough to fill at least a few feet of stringer? I'm hoping to foam mine this weekend, so I really appreciate the info!
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Congrats on the foam completion, Rick :cheers: ! Looks great! So let me get this straight...You mixed 2 quarts at a time (one quart of each part), and that was enough to fill at least a few feet of stringer? I'm hoping to foam mine this weekend, so I really appreciate the info!
I want to say I mixed a gallon when I poured, and I think 8 gallons total, 4 of part a, 4 of part b, 4 lb foam.
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For the size stringers mine are I got 4ft per mix. As I got to the tank area I was getting 5-6ft. The bulkheads I tried mixing 1pt of each and it was just shy of enough - then I added more and it was too much :roll: .
If you are going to use the taped board approach use packing tape for the stringer side and then duct tape to hold it down - I tried packing tape to hold it down and it wasn't strong enough, had to stand on the boards (remember I said how the 3rd pour came out the 5th hole - wasn't ready for that). Make sure you work out how to tape them down in advance. When you get to the last hole be careful, hold the board down to allow it to expand past where you're at and then allow it to escape, stuff is pretty powerful.
I used clear 2 plastic containers each marked A or B (and a Qt line) to measure and then I mixed the stuff together in paper 1 gal buckets - toss the bucket and the stir stick after each mix. Like Koz said - about 15 -20 seconds of mixing is all the time you get. You can tell when you've mixed it enough because it'll turn to a creamy coffee color - then crush the bucket into a spout and pour - quickly and cover. Wait any longer and it'll foam right in the bucket. You learn all this on the fix mix :lol: It takes just a few minutes to expand all the way and you can move to the next pour.
Good luck.
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Congrats on the foam completion, Rick :cheers: ! Looks great! So let me get this straight...You mixed 2 quarts at a time (one quart of each part), and that was enough to fill at least a few feet of stringer? I'm hoping to foam mine this weekend, so I really appreciate the info!
I want to say I mixed a gallon when I poured, and I think 8 gallons total, 4 of part a, 4 of part b, 4 lb foam.
Man that's a lot of money in foam :shock: :shock:
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Congrats on the foam completion, Rick :cheers: ! Looks great! So let me get this straight...You mixed 2 quarts at a time (one quart of each part), and that was enough to fill at least a few feet of stringer? I'm hoping to foam mine this weekend, so I really appreciate the info!
I want to say I mixed a gallon when I poured, and I think 8 gallons total, 4 of part a, 4 of part b, 4 lb foam.
Man that's a lot of money in foam :shock: :shock:
yup, just checked my book, 8 gallons of 4 lb, 4 of A, 4 of B. was the exact amount needed for my stringers
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Oh that reminds me - the foam I used is 2lb.
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Yea, the 2 lb versus 4 lb density will definitely make a difference. I have the 80 lb/20 cubic foot kit of 4 lb foam. That is probably about what Aaron used, since it came in two 5 gallon containers (probably about 4 gallons of liquid in each). The way I did my stringers, I'm sure I will need more foam than Aaron did. Well that is just great. More money....
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OK I have a foam question. The 2lbs or 4lbs foam... how is that figured? The weight per cubic foot of the cured foam?
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OK I have a foam question. The 2lbs or 4lbs foam... how is that figured? The weight per cubic foot of the cured foam?
Yes, it is the approximate weight of one cubic foot of the cured/expanded foam. As I understand it, the amount of expansion is affected by temperature, with 80°F or greater being about optimum. So if it was colder, it may not expand as much, and would be a little more dense (one cubic foot would weigh more).
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Here's a little something for the non re-builders who haven't read it yet. :idea:
http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/materi ... 963-2.html (http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/materials/polyurethane-foam-water-absorption-35963-2.html)
Three pages but on page 2, a couple three pics of foam.
Look familiar? :scratch:
One more from the CW group
http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/003674.html (http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/003674.html)
Opinionated for sure on the foam but many have found wet foam in their Aquas so I'd say it can absorb water at some point in its life.
Interesting indeed.
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Congrats Rick! That is a big milestone, at least a mental one for sure! :salut:
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CB, enjoyed reading that lengthy and quite technical dissertation on CW. Surprised Jim H didn't end the thread with the definitive reason (his own) as to why Whaler foam absorbs water. He is, after all, THE expert on everything Whaler...just ask him. :roll: :roll:
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Just checking
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0968.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8679&title=cimg0968&cat=646)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0969.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8680&title=cimg0969&cat=646)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0970.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8681&title=cimg0970&cat=646)
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(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0971.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8682&title=cimg0971&cat=646)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0972.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8683&title=cimg0972&cat=646)
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(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0973.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8684&title=cimg0973&cat=646)
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Wow that looks GREAT Rick! It's exciting when pieces start to come together and you can see what the finished product is going to look like. When ya planning on installing the deck permanently?
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I'm guessing you're sealing the tank hatch with say, UV4000 (good choice by the way :idea: ) but what about the aft hatch where the pump is to be located?
Also, is that the loaf of bread Eddie stole during "neighbors nite out" ? :wink:
Good luck. :thumleft:
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This build is better than the majority of "professional" jobs :thumright:
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Getting there! Gaps look great..
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I'm guessing you're sealing the tank hatch with say, UV4000 (good choice by the way :idea: ) but what about the aft hatch where the pump is to be located?
Also, is that the loaf of bread Eddie stole during "neighbors nite out" ? :wink:
Good luck. :thumleft:
Sealing is still undecided and that is a sponge, not a loaf of bread :roll: (and it was neighbors nite out last night - sorry)
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Wow that looks GREAT Rick! It's exciting when pieces start to come together and you can see what the finished product is going to look like. When ya planning on installing the deck permanently?
Thanks WT.
Not sure yet - things to do in the bilge still. That will be one of those major decision times again - did I get everything done.....
I'm pretty happy with the results so far. I'm waiting for a couple parts to arrive and then I can take some more major steps.
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This build is better than the majority of "professional" jobs :thumright:
Thanks Scott, but I would hope that Pros are putting out at least this quality, hopefully better.
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This build is better than the majority of "professional" jobs :thumright:
Thanks Scott, but I would hope that Pros are putting out at least this quality, hopefully better.
Yes, you would hope and expect so...but for instance your tank install, hatch fit and finish, stringer detail, etc...most don't go there.
Like the framing crews around here say..."Can't see it from my house." :?
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and that is a sponge, not a loaf of bread
Well I was going to inquire whether it was whole wheat or rye but in that case I'll ask..........
Contraceptive :scratch:
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Made a mold to create "trim rings" (maybe not the right term) for the cabling to go through into the rigging tubes.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0976.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8688&title=cimg0976&cat=646)
Cut the 2nd layer of Plascore for under the batteries - you can see the red outline of where it will lam'd in faintly through the visqueen just to the left of one of the finished trim rings.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0977.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8689&title=cimg0977&cat=646)
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Borrowed one of Chris's techniques for the drain plug - was going to go with a normal expansion plug but decided to go with a garboard plug.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0978.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8690&title=cimg0978&cat=646)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0979.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8691&title=cimg0979&cat=646)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0980.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8692&title=cimg0980&cat=646)
EDIT: I guess I should explain why this is a better technique it you are using a garboard drain plug. The PVC plug is about 3/4" thick,which is the hole depth (I actually only got into about 1/4" of wood), and the thickened resin "filler" you see is where the screws for the garboard plug will land. So the wood transom is protected from screw holes. I may do the same technique for the motor mounts.
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Did a final grind in the bilge area and vacuumed/wiped it clean
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0981.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8693&title=cimg0981&cat=646)
Rolled some 2-part epoxy paint on.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0982.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8694&title=cimg0982&cat=646)
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Is that insert for the garboard plug two PVC pipes? Very interesting concept. How well does the resin stick to it if so?
Oh, that bilge looks amazing! :salut:
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Is that insert for the garboard plug two PVC pipes? Very interesting concept. How well does the resin stick to it if so?
yup - 1" for the inner and 2" for the outer. Thickened epoxy for the filler - sticks fine to it. Epoxied it into the transom.
Oh, that bilge looks amazing! :salut:
Thanks, I mixed twice as much as I needed, as usual :roll: Potent stuff.
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It does look good, Rick! What paint did you use for the bilge?
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E-bond epoxy http://fiberglasssupplydepot.com/E-Bond ... 06c-2.html (http://fiberglasssupplydepot.com/E-Bond-Epoxy-106c-3-106c-2.html)
The instructions on the can leave a lot to be desired. You mix it 1:1 (never really seems to mix up though) and I was told you get about 30 mins working time - I checked back a little later and it was tacking up. I should have mixed up a pint total but mixed a pint of each - really thin stuff. Use good ventilation or a respirator. I used denatured alcohol to clean the roller handle - no clean up instructions on the can.
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Why post once when you can post twice? :oops:
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Rick, white vinigar cleans up uncured epoxy better than anything else I have found. :wink:
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Why post once when you can post twice? :oops:
Huh?
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Rick, white vinigar cleans up uncured epoxy better than anything else I have found. :wink:
As expensive as DNA is it might be worth taking a look at the vinegar - thanks for the tip :salut:
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Looking really nice Rick!
Here is a link to a thread over on Bateau2 where the guy is building a hardtop. He vacuumed the foam onto a mold he made. Some good info for all you guys about to try this!!!
http://forums.bateau2.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=58215 (http://forums.bateau2.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=58215)
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Bilge paint is nice and dry this morning - a little cool here, expected maybe it wouldn't cure yet but it did.
I can finally start getting boxes out of my way. :cheers: A Johnson pump 1000gph bilge pump with electronic float switch built in. I have the same switch on both pumps in the 230 and they work great. I'll wait until it warms up here a little more and then stick the pump down with this DAP product. We'll see how it works. I hate how you have to buy a BIG tube of 5200 and then use a small bit of it and then when you go back the tube is hardened - big waste of money.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0983.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8695&title=cimg0983&cat=646)
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Beauty! On the 5200, I gave up on trying to save it a long time ago. I just leave the tip on, don't cover it or anything. The stuff in the tip will cure, then I take the tip off and remove that cured portion and run the end of the tube with a drill bit and it usually clears the small cured bit in the end of the tube and youre good to go. I keep some new tips around incase I cant reuse the used one...
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Take a long flat head screw and push it into the tube when you're through. Eventually the top of the tube will harden...at that point just stick a nail through the soft part of the tube and squeeze out what's left.
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Pretty much what dirt and Scott said. My current tube is several months old, no probs, I cut off the tip so I can thread a 10-24 machine screw in it.
BTW, cartridges of 5200 are still $11 at my HD in Spring Hill... :thumright:
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I "backed" the underside of front of the cap with poly, 3/4oz, 1708, plascore and 1708. Solid like a rock and it has a crown to it so I'm leaving the weight on it for the night.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0984.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8696&title=cimg0984&cat=646)
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Added a piece of PVC with 5 min epoxy for the bilge exhaust
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0985.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8697&title=cimg0985&cat=646)
Should be secure.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0988.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8700&title=cimg0988&cat=646)
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Made a little support bracket for the vent and fuel hose. This way I won't get any negative droops in the hose. It's tacked with 5min epoxy, held together with tape for the 5 min and I'll glass it in tomorrow.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0986.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8698&title=cimg0986&cat=646)
You can see how it lines up with the hoses as they exit the tank coffin.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0987.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8699&title=cimg0987&cat=646)
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You're doing a great job Rick! :thumleft:
It would have been sweet if Aquasport (or any other boat builder) took the time to do what you, and many others here, are doing during your rebuilds. Other than lay up, you guys are really building a boat from scratch. You can see the amount of time it takes to do all the "little things". Fortunately, for you guys, you have the time, and your labor, to you, is free. So is mine to me.
Unfortunately, the same cannot be said about builders. Hence the plethora (yes, I used that word) of boats in landfills, boats that cost their owners a pretty penny when new.
A bit of a comparison. When I worked at Lockheed-Martin, I had a guy working for me that previously worked for Cooper tires, "building" tires. He had an old VW Bug, the set he made for his car were at about 150K miles and still looked great. He told me that if tire companies would take the time to build a tire correctly, there was no reason you couldn't get 200K miles out of them...which he was planning to get with his tires. Pretty cool...
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And by lay up, I meant laying up the hull, deck, and liner. Obviously, you guys are doing a LOT of lay up!! :salut:
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It's 50 degrees here right now so I went out in my shorts, flip-flops and long sleeve t-shirt :mrgreen: (still chilly for us though) to remove the blocks and the plastic.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0989.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8716&title=cimg0989&cat=646)
I initially cut and beveled the center piece and then decided that I might need the few added inches along the outside on either side so I cut the left and right pieces and then took some of the 45 degree trimmings and put them back - almost fits but still gives me a smooth surface for the most part.
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So here goes my first attempt at vacuum pressing. Not sure if I can create my own airtight space using the garage floor with 6 mil of plastic on top of it taped down with duct tape.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0990.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8717&title=cimg0990&cat=646)
Start with my small hatch
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0991.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8718&title=cimg0991&cat=646)
Cut some 1208 big enough to roll over the edge and onto the flat
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0992.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8719&title=cimg0992&cat=646)
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Thats it!? I want to see more! :lol:
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This is just a test to see if it will even work, so no peel ply or breather yet. Cut the top layer and remembered that I needed to leave it loose (6 mil is still pretty thick to manipulate - could only imagine working with 20 or 30 mil). Cut the stem (frog) hole, added some 1808 folded as a mop under the stem. Taped it down
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0993.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8720&title=cimg0993&cat=646)
Let it rip
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0994.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8721&title=cimg0994&cat=646)
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Learned that I didn't leave the upper sheet loose enough but it did work.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0995.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8722&title=cimg0995&cat=646)
Not great vacuum but not bad so it probably means I have some leaks on my tape - could hear a little air hiss but the compressor was too close to hear well. I lifted the top layer and moved all the tape inward about 1/2" and tried my hand at pleats and let it rip again. It pulled it down around the edges a little better this time so I guess I still need some more slack in the bag. I'm waiting to do the real thing until I get my tape - should be here today. Will probably start with a little bigger area on the floor too.
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COOL!
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Man, so far I have been resisting the vacuum bug that you and Carl are spreading...but I don't know how long I can hold out. That does look cool!
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Rick, if you are only pulling 15" max you definitely have leaks to contend with. It really didn't take much of a leak to make my 3cfm half useless. Also, since you are using the heavier plastic you can hit it with a heat gun while it is under vacuum to eliminate the bridging, basically heat forming the plastic drop cloth.
I'm excited to see what you come up with.
You will be impressed with the lamination once you pull it too! :wink:
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Right after I posted the initial trials Santa showed up and dropped off what I needed to do the real deal.
Sticky tape - man this stuff is incredibly tough. Once it's it's pressed or vacuumed onto something it's toast - you can barely pull it off the plastic, plastic gives first :shock:
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0996.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8725&title=cimg0996&cat=646)
Peel ply and the real bagging material - thought I was doing ok with 6 mil - the real stuff is only 2 mil. The white stuff is the wick or "bleeder" layer of the lam.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0997.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8726&title=cimg0997&cat=646)
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This is what the roll goods look like - the perforated peel ply is the blue, the 2mil bagging material is the green stuff (110" wide per yard)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0999.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8728&title=cimg0999&cat=646)
Also picked up one of these - the console will be the first experiment - soon.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0998.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8727&title=cimg0998&cat=646)
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Rick, I was a supervisor in the Non-Metallics center at Lockheed-Martin, we did a TON of vacuum bagging on missile parts, heat shields, filament heaters, you name it. You want good materials, you need EXCELLENT sealing tape (looks like you got that!) if you want to pull 30" of Hg. Those wrinkles you see in your bag at 15"? They'll pucker tighter than your butt does when a steering cable breaks at 30"... :thumright:
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We (Ed and I) tried out the new tape and how much pleat to use (that's when I found out you ain't reusing this tape again or anything it's attached to) and I went through 1/2 the first roll just in practice.
What did I learn:
1) The visqueen on the garage floor works great as a platform for airtightness (word?).
2) You need to apply the tape to the bagging material, NOT to the visqueen. :roll:
3) You WILL need to "pleat" the bag so you have to experiment to learn how to do that at the expense of tape and plastic (and duct tape)
4) We figured out that you need to cut the bagging material 6" inches larger (3" on each side) than you need it all around and apply the tape without much pressure or much pulling.
5) With the bagging material laying over the target material (with the tape already applied to it - protective tape (PC) still on one side) mark the visqueen taped to the floor 1 1/2" inside the edge of the tape all around. This will be where you stick the tape down, which will cause you to "pleat" the tape and bag - see pics.
6) Cut a 1/4" X in the desired corner for the stem to penetrate the plastic. Install the stem.
7) Starting at the side with the stem, peel back the PC at just the corners and lightly press the tape in the corners where your lines intersect - both corners on that line.
8 ) Holding up the center of the tape, peel back the PC from this side and working from both corners lightly smooth/press the tape onto the plastic and in the middle you'll have some excess that you'll make into a pleat by squeezing the tape together and pressing the joint down onto the plastic so it makes a good seal.
9) Lay back the bagging material over itself.
10) Before you proceed make sure you cut the layers you need for the bagging and don't cut them too large. Make sure they fit within your new lines.
11) I learned that I needed to cut the 1208 just long enough (or maybe just a strand shy of) to make it over the edge and to the bottom of the hatch. I initially thought that I would bring the cloth over the edge and let it run long, to trim later. With the pressure I was able to pull (about 18), it pulled the cloth over the edge better to cut it short.
12) Have the cloth, peel ply and bleeder cloth ready and mix your resin (I am using poly) and cross your fingers and stay calm.
13) Coat the target and the edges well with resin, and then set/position the cloth, hard roll and roll more resin on top and edges, making sure the edges are wet enough.
14) Staying calm, apply the peel ply and bleeder layer of the bagging material to the target.
15) Pull the bagging material over the top and working (hopefully with more than yourself) the sides, line up the next corners and stick them and work the tape down and pinch the pleat.
16) Work the last edge the same way as the first and secure it to the plastic.
17) Connect the vacuum line to the stem and turn it on, low vacuum at first if you can.
18) As it pulls the plastic down use your hands to help the vacuum pull the top flat/smooth and the edges round and then turn the vacuum up to full blast. Continue to help it pull the material around the corners.
19) Grab your camera and take a pic for your buds and then grab a beer. I let the vacuum run for over an hour and the piece was still sticky when I pulled it.
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Here is the layup - cloth, perforated peel ply and bleeder cloth
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1000.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8729&title=cimg1000&cat=646)
Following the instructions above - Oh boy, here we go, this time using the 2mil bagging material
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1001.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8730&title=cimg1001&cat=646)
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I was able to get a pressure of 18, not ideal but adequate and we let it sit for an hour
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1002.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8731&title=cimg1002&cat=646)
Pulled the bag off (not easy) and the bleeder cloth and this is the hatch with the peel ply still on
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1004.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8733&title=cimg1004&cat=646)
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Peeled back the peel ply and it was a wonderful result :cheers:
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1005.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8734&title=cimg1005&cat=646)
Look at them edges :cheers: :cheers: - no way without some clamping mechanism will you get cloth to roll over an edge. I used 1208, now I wish I would have gone with 1708 :roll:
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1006.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8735&title=cimg1006&cat=646)
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(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1007.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8736&title=cimg1007&cat=646)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1008.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8737&title=cimg1008&cat=646)
Tank hatch tomorrow.
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Damn rick that looks good for the first time. :cheers:
I just got my order of bagging supplies yesterday and will be trying it out in the weeks to come. I am going to try and push the envelop some though and do some resin infusion. :mrgreen:
What are you going to try next?
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When you pull off the peel ply is it smooth or textured from the cloth? Is there going to be some faring to slick it out?
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Infusion huh? 8) I've seen some of it on youtube (see the link Lewis posted about Bateau2.com) and it's some good stuff. Won't be doing any on this boat though :salut:
The hatch is showing what the cloth looks like, not sure how smooth yet, it was still tacky when I pulled it.
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Infusion huh? 8) I've seen some of it on youtube (see the link Lewis posted about Bateau2.com) and it's some good stuff. Won't be doing any on this boat though :salut:
The hatch is showing what the cloth looks like, not sure how smooth yet, it was still tacky when I pulled it.
I checked that link out too because I am planning on making a hard top. Good info probably won't go with 2" though mine will be 3/4" nidacore and coosa.
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Wow, Rick! That came out great!
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First of all, Congrats.
That looks great .
I guess I need to buy the real deal supplies, you managed to once again up the bar. :salut:
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Infusion huh? 8) I've seen some of it on youtube (see the link Lewis posted about Bateau2.com) and it's some good stuff. Won't be doing any on this boat though :salut:
The hatch is showing what the cloth looks like, not sure how smooth yet, it was still tacky when I pulled it.
I checked that link out too because I am planning on making a hard top. Good info probably won't go with 2" though mine will be 3/4" nidacore and coosa.
I think the link you were looking at is about bagging. Here is the link you really want to learn from about infusion. http://forums.bateau2.com/viewtopic.php ... 8b4170fce3 (http://forums.bateau2.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=28463&hilit=xxxf20&sid=cf9457d1a857c72587c3748b4170fce3)
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Looks good Rick... Quit making me wanna go that route when I get to that point!!!!! :lol:
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:lol:
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Infusion huh? 8) I've seen some of it on youtube (see the link Lewis posted about Bateau2.com) and it's some good stuff. Won't be doing any on this boat though :salut:
The hatch is showing what the cloth looks like, not sure how smooth yet, it was still tacky when I pulled it.
To follow up, the texture you see on the hatch is the texture of the cloth. For me I'm not sure it will be a big deal as I will be gelcoating and non-skidding the entire sole. I guess that will give the gelcoat something to grab onto after I scruff it up.
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Infusion huh? 8) I've seen some of it on youtube (see the link Lewis posted about Bateau2.com) and it's some good stuff. Won't be doing any on this boat though :salut:
The hatch is showing what the cloth looks like, not sure how smooth yet, it was still tacky when I pulled it.
To follow up, the texture you see on the hatch is the texture of the cloth. For me I'm not sure it will be a big deal as I will be gelcoating and non-skidding the entire sole. I guess that will give the gelcoat something to grab onto after I scruff it up.
After checking that link out I think I will pass on the infusion. I don't think I have enough items left on my project to work out all the kinks and plus I already purchased all my resin. Not infusion resin.
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After checking that link out I think I will pass on the infusion. I don't think I have enough items left on my project to work out all the kinks and plus I already purchased all my resin. Not infusion resin.
That was an intense build wasn't it. Way beyond where I need to go too :salut:
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Another thing I learned: The bigger the panel the more you're going to hear from your buddy as to why you shouldn't do it :wink:
It does take a lot of time to prep for something that takes 5 or so minutes to actually use.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1012.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8740&title=cimg1012&cat=646)
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Gas tank coffin door?
I see lots of improvement already on how neat the bagging looks. :cheers:
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Might want to chech out "final approach odds and end" by Tuna on CM. He is doing some interesting bagging on a glass table comes out real slick.
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I got a call from the supplier last night saying that the perforated peel ply they sent a couple days ago really wasn't perforated :? They said that they were shipped the wrong product and hadn't noticed. I have never used this stuff before and while I looked I figured the holes were so small I couldn't see them, just figured the bleeder cloth just wasn't picking anything up :roll: . So now I wonder how the 2 hatches would have come out with the right stuff, whether the vacuum would have worked easier in pulling everything down and if the finish would have been smoother?
They said they would not get the correct stuff until the week after xmas and if I wanted they would send me the kind they did have right now, the kind that left a slight imprint in the finish. I scruffed up the small and large hatch (which I used 1708 on this time) yesterday and to me the finish is ok because of the next step is non-skid for them, so I had them send what they have. Should get it today and I'll do the sole with that.
BTW, what appears to be a 2nd layer of plascore on the big hatch above actually is - it's the reinforcement layer for under the batteries.
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I noticed that you didn't have any bleed through... I figured you just ordered the non-perforated stuff.
From the last pic it looks like you pulled much better vacuum too. 25" or so?
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I noticed that you didn't have any bleed through... I figured you just ordered the non-perforated stuff.
From the last pic it looks like you pulled much better vacuum too. 25" or so?
I'm trying to figure out why you would use the non-perf'd stuff :scratch: You have to get that stuff on so smooth otherwise it leaves wrinkles and the resin pools up in them.
When I cal'd the pump they said to set it at 21 so I did - can't get over that with it set. I think I was at about 18. I think I should have put the stem off to the side on that one. I thought at the time that I would get better all around pull if I put it int he middle but with the pleats it got weird - that pic is the redo of the pull down, the first one was fugly and had wrinkles everywhere on one side. So I let the air back in, readjusted, turned back on the vacuum and we pulled the pleats up so the wrinkles were mostly gone. Definitely a learning experience. The sole is next and my buddy is already complaining that "he slept wrong last night", "his back is hurting", "his knees are hurting", .... :roll: It's going to be a challenge for sure though both to get it all set up and to keep him motivated. :wink:
This time I think I will put tape all around on the bottom of the tank hatch cutout, pull the protective tape and press visqueen onto it to make a "false bottom". The instead of using the floor and visqueen underneath the entire sole to make the bag I am going to put tape all around the very top outer edge of the sole, around the lip of the bilge access and along the perimeter of the false bottom. This should make a nice seal to pull the cloth over the edges of the hatch holes. We'll see. I don't need the vacuum for the "flat" cloth, only where it goes over the edges - a lot of work for 20 linear ft.
I'm putting the tape at the edge of the sole, which means I will not have cloth going all the way out but I will be tabbing the sole into the hull sides so I'll get that little bit then.
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Looks like you've got a good handle on bagging now :thumright: I was considering trying a poor mans vac set-up if I can't find a long bed pickup cover cheap enough for my t-top cover....I have an old frig compressor that will work as a vac pump, just add lines and a gauge and, well I'll just see how it turns out....if I have to go this route I was planning on using 1/4 foam as my base as I want the cover to be rather thin as it will be supported all around :salut:
Thanks for posting all the pics, it definately makes some pretty parts when finished :thumright:
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Bilge paint is nice and dry this morning - a little cool here, expected maybe it wouldn't cure yet but it did.
I can finally start getting boxes out of my way. :cheers: A Johnson pump 1000gph bilge pump with electronic float switch built in. I have the same switch on both pumps in the 230 and they work great. I'll wait until it warms up here a little more and then stick the pump down with this DAP product. We'll see how it works. I hate how you have to buy a BIG tube of 5200 and then use a small bit of it and then when you go back the tube is hardened - big waste of money.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0983.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8695&title=cimg0983&cat=646)
As a follow up: The DAP product never cured so I scraped it off and went with 5200. To my surprise the 5200 never cured either :shock: So I went with small screws. I guess the E-bond won't let anything bite into it and is not porous, which that product needs. I was surprised with the 5200 though.
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Weird about the 5200. It should have cured, even if it didn't adhere, right? Maybe its a bad tube :scratch:
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I believe to non-perforated is actually for infusion, but all I have personally seen it used for is on ambient layups. It works two fold, one being a smoother finish and it leaves the textured finish for a secondary bond.
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Weird about the 5200. It should have cured, even if it didn't adhere, right? Maybe its a bad tube :scratch:
I agree, although it is odd that 2 different products didn't cure :scratch: . Did they set up (get firm), and just not stick to the epoxy? Or did they really just stay gooey?
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Keep in mind Rick, "normal" 5200 (what I use) has a spec of 48 hours for tack-free, full cure reached in 7-14 days depending on thickness...
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Rick, just take a piece of sandpaper and scuff where you want to mount. Also wipe area with acetone as there is probably some wax residue on the area. Maybe? Just a thought.
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I let both set for 24 hours and then I gently pulled on it and it came free easily and the stuff was still goopy - didn't leave it for 48 hours. Now that it is screwed in, with 5200 on the screws, I guess it will eventually harden.
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The sole lam was today. All was going good until I realized that I was a yard short on the bagging material. Luckily I had enough 6mil visqueen left.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1020.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8745&title=cimg1020&cat=646)
The result was a total waste of manpower and money :!: We spent 2 hours prepping and when the got all the layers done I'm sure the resin was still wet but when we started bagging it took a little longer than I expected due to the big access holes in the sole (tank primarily). Anyway, the pic above is as far as it went - turned on the vacuum and never got any :cry: I think I must have done everything wrong:
I ran short of the yellow tape (this is kick a** tape) so I ordered some "gray" tape and it was like half strength of the yellow - some applications might be good using it but compared to the yellow it sucked. Stuck to my gloves but it didn't seem to have the sealing power I needed. So I think I had more air leaks than seals :cry:
The good thing is that we rolled out the 1708 nice and flat but the rest of the stuff was a total waste of time and money. No vacuum, no benefit of the bleeder cloth to get rid of the excess resin. Not sure what I learned here :|
Here is a pic of the "finished" sole and for the most part it is ok since we did a decent job on the cloth. You can see a section in the back left where I must have stretched the cloth and it wrinkled back up, so I have to grind that out and patch it. The rolled edges of the opening, which was why I did this in the first place, came out 50% only because the tape I put in some places held the cloth, not the vacuum. :x
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1021.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8746&title=cimg1021&cat=646)
I'll patch all this and be ready to glue the floor in by end of tomorrow.
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So I went out this morning and ground the sole down and I did have to grind out the wrinkles and patch the spots. Then I started working the hatches and it seems the outcome wasn't as bad as I thought it would be.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1030.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8754&title=cimg1030&cat=646)
The hatches were too big for the holes now which was a good thing. The main hatch hole the cloth did not roll and stick most of the way around so I ground all that off and the main hatch was still too big. So I took a belt sander and hit the hole edges since the hatch edge was already flat and it fits real nice now. I have just a little build up on the hatch edge but that is minor and is hardening now. On the bilge hatch hole the cloth also didn't roll well and I ground a lot of it off and the hole was still too small so a little tweeking and the small hatch fits nice now. Still have a little build up in the corners that is also hardening now.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1031.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8755&title=cimg1031&cat=646)
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Took a second and routed the hose through the supports
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1029.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8753&title=cimg1029&cat=646)
I think I will make one more set for the "turn" where the hose will turn up and more than likely back toward the aft, to secure it there too.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1028.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8752&title=cimg1028&cat=646)
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Took some of the E-Bond paint and coated the underside of the seat
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1027.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8751&title=cimg1027&cat=646)
And the recesses I made for the kill switches, one on each side of the console
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0974.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8685&title=cimg0974&cat=646)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1026.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8750&title=cimg1026&cat=646)
Also painted the cable guides
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1024.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8748&title=cimg1024&cat=646)
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Looking good, Rick :thumleft: . It's funny how sometimes you think things are going to come out like crap, but actually come out pretty good. I can't wait to see what the finished console looks like. Keep up the great work!
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Thanks Craig.
A little more putty on the hatches or receivers and I'm ready to stick this floor down tomorrow - another milestone :cheers:
The next day it'll be fillets and tape to tie the sole to the hull 8)
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Some more progress - a very humid day here but better than what you fellas are going through up north :salut:
Cut the mounting slots and dry fit the kill switches.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1035.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8761&title=cimg1035&cat=646)
No key inserted
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1034.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8760&title=cimg1034&cat=646)
Key inserted and "on"
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1033.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8759&title=cimg1033&cat=646)
One on one off. There will be a voltmeter right above each one - one for 12V and one for 24V (trolling motor)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1032.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8758&title=cimg1032&cat=646)
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The hatches are fitting nicely now and I started on the bilge hatch to cut the compression latches into them. The honeycomb took forever to trim down to let the latch recess - used small diagonal pliers to trim it down - a pain for sure.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1036.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8762&title=cimg1036&cat=646)
Got them where I needed to and then filled the honey comb with thickened resin - I know I will have to spend some time on the drill press with a forstner bit to slowly trim down the resin to get the latches recessed again
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1037.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8763&title=cimg1037&cat=646)
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Cut the access holes into the tank hatch - this hatch is getting lighter every day :D
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1039.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8765&title=cimg1039&cat=646)
Here are the guides - made them out of epoxy so I used the E-bond paint on them.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1040.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8766&title=cimg1040&cat=646)
What you also see in the pics are the holes I over-drilled and filled with thickened resin to drill through for mounting the hatch to the stringers and if you look at the added layer I also over-drilled the battery tray mounting locations too.
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I called my wife out to help me carry the sole to the boat - she is 5'10" and 125lbs. Gives you an idea of the sole weight - maybe 70 lbs?
One last dry fit and also marked where to tape off the tank stringers so I don't cross pollinate the epoxy into the poly area.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1042.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8768&title=cimg1042&cat=646)
I rinsed out the boat early this morning (a ton of leaves had hidden themselves in the center pipe so I was glad I did). The bilge hatch - even got the bilge pump inside the hatch area :thumleft:
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1041.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8767&title=cimg1041&cat=646)
The bilge pump exhaust hose had good clearance
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1043.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8769&title=cimg1043&cat=646)
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Added the hatches to the sole and set up the cable guide to be glued down. There ain't a whole bunch of room in them joints anymore :D . Still thinking about cramming the round rubber tube type hose that you use to install a screen, around the perimeter of both tanks - barely enough room but that would seal them off.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1044.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8770&title=cimg1044&cat=646)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1045.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8771&title=cimg1045&cat=646)
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Some great progress Rick. Your lucky on the warm weather is getting cold here again.
Which compression latch did you get?
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Cut some spacers from some epoxy soaked small cloth panels I made up. These are being used to build up where the compression latches are used on the bilge hatch - the latches I bought would only go down to 1 1/2 ".
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1046.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8772&title=cimg1046&cat=646)
I wanted to stick everything with epoxy and I had some medium cure hardener left and it looked pretty old, the color was getting more orange then the newer medium I just bought so I was concerned it was too old and if it had a short shelf life. There is a sticker on the bottle to shake well before using and I had about 1" left in the bottle so I proceeded to shake it for about 5 mins and mixed the parts and then added the cabosil and kept my fingers crossed.
I brought some cinder blocks into the boat before I started so I would be ready to stick the guides down.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1047.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8773&title=cimg1047&cat=646)
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Then I buttered up the 5 layers of the spacers and stuck them to the spots I needed them on the bilge ledge area. Note to self - make sure you put plastic between the clamps and the glue so you don't have to figure out how to get your clamps free again :roll:
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1049.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8775&title=cimg1049&cat=646)
BTW, the old hardener was still good - I got about 30 mins working time 'til it kicked (which tells me how long I have tomorrow when I glue in the sole).
I'll show pics of the latches when I mount them. They were not the top of the line we discussed earlier in the thread but nice none the less.
Also, I found out I need to cut a slot in the support just forward of the bilge hatch access - go figure that the latch would hit it :roll:
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Some great progress Rick. Your lucky on the warm weather is getting cold here again.
Which compression latch did you get?
Thanks F, it's supposed to rain here tonight and then start cooling down - maybe it'll help me with the kick time on the epoxy tomorrow :thumleft:
Yeah this stuff doesn't take too long when you don't have to work :roll: I started vacation on Thanksgiving day and I have worked 7 days a week on this project since then. I've made up for lost time but mannnnn.... I need to go back to work to get a vacation :roll:
Anyway, it was worth it and before I'm done I will have the sole stuck down and the sole tabbed into the hull - tying it all together, a huge milestone. I also hope to get the cap rolled back into the boat and fitted to the sole.
I don't have the link handy for the latches (I have ordered so many things for the rebuild that I have to sort through the emails to find it) - sorry. I'll post pics when I install them.
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Man, looks like it was a productive day! Looking good Rick! What are you using to bond the sole to the stringers?
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Man, looks like it was a productive day! Looking good Rick! What are you using to bond the sole to the stringers?
It was - everyday I make some sort of progress, even if it is to stare at the project :lol: Now that vacation is about over it's back to weekends again. :cry:
I'm using thickened epoxy - medium kick. Scary.
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Bummer that big bag didnt work out... I might put the hardener in the fridge for a bit as warm as its been. Unless youre mixing early in the morning. Those infrared thermometers are sweet for keeping track of your temps!
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Which compression latch did you get?
http://marinepartdepot.com/ststflhali.html (http://marinepartdepot.com/ststflhali.html)
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I started the day taking the clamps off the spacers and removing the plastic and wouldn't you know that the ooze out of the epoxy out the back side was close enough to connect to the support bracket just in front of it and weld the two together :oops: Guess I should have draped plastic over it too :oops: Tried to lift the floor and no way. :oops:
I sent the left side of my brain off to work on that and I proceeded to work the bilge hatch. Had to go to HD and buy some grinding bits and worked about an hour to get them where they needed to be for the latches to fit.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1050.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8777&title=cimg1050&cat=646)
Look pretty good.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1051.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8778&title=cimg1051&cat=646)
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Back side still loose obviously
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1052.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8779&title=cimg1052&cat=646)
Here is the hatch in the receiver and the arm is hitting the brace in front of the opening.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1053.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8780&title=cimg1053&cat=646)
Speaking of the arm hitting the brace, I knew I needed to notch it and now I guess I need to notch it a little more since I needed to cut the two parts free, I drilled a couple holes and stuck a mini-hacksaw (http://www.homedepot.com/p/Stanley-10-i ... /100026795 (http://www.homedepot.com/p/Stanley-10-in-Mini-Hacksaw-15-809/100026795)) in the hole and sawed them free. Then I lifted the back part of the sole out over the transom and chiseled the brace off the back of the spacers. Then I took my jigsaw and squared up the cut in the brace - all is good again.
Supposed to be around 50 here in the morning so it'll be a perfect time to glue the sole in before the grand kids get here for Christmas at 10. Should give me the working time I need :cheers:
Merry Christmas to all.
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50 in the morn!! Not even 2 hours N of you, we're supposed to see 37 or so... :shock:
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Turning out nice Rick! So, it looks like you recessed the whole latch so that its surface will be flush with the hatch...nice touch!
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Turning out nice Rick! So, it looks like you recessed the whole latch so that its surface will be flush with the hatch...nice touch!
Thanks Craig.
I hate toe stubbers :evil: I have a "camel back" on the deck in the 230 to hold the aft curtain and I step on the thing every time I'm in the boat.
I think you're supposed to recess them, no?
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Turning out nice Rick! So, it looks like you recessed the whole latch so that its surface will be flush with the hatch...nice touch!
Thanks Craig.
I hate toe stubbers :evil: I have a "camel back" on the deck in the 230 to hold the aft curtain and I step on the thing every time I'm in the boat.
I think you're supposed to recess them, no?
Good question. It looks like the "flange" on those are pretty thick, so recessing is a great idea. I've got some Southco latches for mine. I haven't installed any yet, but the instructions on the Southco website indicate that they are surface mounted. The flanges are slightly over 1/8" thick, so there will be a slight bump, but the edges are tapered, so I don't think they will be a stub hazard. Either way, I think you will have a nice clean installation when you are done :thumright: .
I don't know if you have mentioned this, but are you installing two latches on your hatch? Seems like there are two "resin pads" in the pics. I guess this will eliminate the need for hinges. Another nice idea :salut:
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I think you're supposed to recess them, no?
Good question. It looks like the "flange" on those are pretty thick, so recessing is a great idea. I've got some Southco latches for mine. I haven't installed any yet, but the instructions on the Southco website indicate that they are surface mounted. The flanges are slightly over 1/8" thick, so there will be a slight bump, but the edges are tapered, so I don't think they will be a stub hazard. Either way, I think you will have a nice clean installation when you are done :thumright: .
The edge on these is pretty thick - and what it needed to recess them was pretty substantial.
You can always recess yours a little bit for a clean look.
I don't know if you have mentioned this, but are you installing two latches on your hatch? Seems like there are two "resin pads" in the pics. I guess this will eliminate the need for hinges. Another nice idea :salut:
Yup, 2 latches, no hinges. Still want to play around with the spline idea for sealing.
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Sole glued in with thickened epoxy on Christmas day
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1054.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8781&title=cimg1054&cat=646)
Filleted in this morning
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1058.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8782&title=cimg1058&cat=646)
Followed by tabbing it in
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1060.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8784&title=cimg1060&cat=646)
Sole is secure and part of the hull now :cheers:
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Congrats Rick! :cheers:
As Joe Biden would say, "It's kind of a big F****** deal". :salut:
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Congrats, Rick! Major milestone there!
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Looks sweet you have really put the hammer down during the holiday season. :thumleft:
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On Christmas Day??? How in the world did you get away with that??? Huge accomplishment :cheers: :cheers: !
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On Christmas Day??? How in the world did you get away with that??? Huge accomplishment :cheers: :cheers: !
I was thinking the same thing. The wife must really want this boat done. :mrgreen:
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Taking the year out with a bang :salut: She looks great with the floor in...headed for the final stretch :cheers:
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THANKS GUYS :!: :!: It's been a long, tough but productive 30+ days.
To the casual viewer it may look like not much progress - the stringers were already there, the tank well was there, the sole was lam'd :scratch:
If I had to look back I guess the time was spent on the console and the hatches and some little stuff - wow - 30+ days on that :shock:
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As Joe Biden would say, "It's kind of a big F****** deal". :salut:
:lol:
And it is.
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I started working on the bolt holes that would secure the tank hatch and started by recessing the resin that I poured into the over-drilled holes for the bolts. I wish now that I would have filled these holes with epoxy - poly in that quantity is brittle and actually not worth much. I think it will work as it's just a "vertical spacer". We'll see. I used a spade bit to recess and also give me a hole to use as a guide for the hole size.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1061.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8785&title=cimg1061&cat=646)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1062.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8786&title=cimg1062&cat=646)
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This is what I am using to secure the hatch to the stringer - stainless 1/4-20 inserts
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1064.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8788&title=cimg1064&cat=646)
This is the setup I used to insert the inserts. I cut a 1/4-20 bolt off so I could put it in a drill, put two nuts on the bolt - 1 to tighten to the insert and one to lock the two nuts. Worked great. You can see the source and part number also.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1065.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8789&title=cimg1065&cat=646)
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I used the same bit that I drilled the holes through the hatch and "kissed" the stringers to mark the holes. I used an 11/32" hole for the inserts into the stringers and on the second hole the the bit broke in half - Dewalt - titanium - brand new :shock: And the stringer tops are what - maybe 3/8" thick? I headed to the HD and bought 2 more bits. Completed the job with one, so I'll take the other back.
I greased the inserts into the fiberglass with 5 minute epoxy and got them all set in placed.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1066.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8790&title=cimg1066&cat=646)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1067.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8791&title=cimg1067&cat=646)
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Interesting idea. You will thread and epoxy in the insert to the stringer so you have a sealed connection? No water into stringer good idea.
Damn I responded right before you posted the last picture and explanation. :mrgreen:
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I guess there is always the chance that water will get into the stringers via the threads but I will caulk the bolts as I install them
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Rick, been looking at the pics today, excellent job!! And a most HEARTY congrats on getting the floor installed!!!
That is pretty much a "point of no return" part of the build. So you dot your I's, cross your T's...congrats bud!! :salut: :salut:
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Thanks Bob - "gettin er done" - with still a ton to do :roll: .
It is a big step and a point of no return.
You probably noticed the red wire in the starboard rigging tube, that's a pull wire for the bilge pump wiring that is coming through the "1/2" drain hole" in the tube. I have to snake a 3 wire cable from the pump to the console but that is the same side I need to snake out the engine harness with the 1-1/4" plug on the end and the throttle /shift cables. I have to work through that 12" bilge hatch to pull the wire, probably last. Will be fun. I already installed a wire hanger on the starboard stringer by the pump to route/support the wires from the pump.
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Rick, you don't have far to pull your rigging, and you have some pretty straight shots. But...if you feel things are gonna get tight, do this. Pull everything one at a time. Start with the biggest, which is the engine harness. The plug may be large, but once it's through, the harness is only about 5/8" in dia. Then your main acc (hull) harness, then your batt cables, then your steering hoses (if you are going hyd), last your shift and throttle cables.
If you feel you need to go this route, pull a new "pull wire" through with each pull. You only need 2 lengths of wire, swap them out with each pull.
But I have a feeling you won't have any probs... :thumright:
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On Christmas Day??? How in the world did you get away with that??? Huge accomplishment :cheers: :cheers: !
I was thinking the same thing. The wife must really want this boat done. :mrgreen:
Actually my wife helped gluing the sole in and pre-wet all the tabbing materials for me while I was in the boat. :thumleft: (But you're right, she wants this thing done)
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Damn! Maybe I'm too late, but if you can remove those inserts it would be better to over-drill and create a cavity in the stringer foam and fill it with thickened epoxy. Then you can reset your inserts and have a guaranteed waterproof setup.
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Put that one in your bag of tricks Carl! Over drill and plug the cover, put it in place then drill through both for the stringer plug pilot hole, then over drill and plug for the insert. Last step drill thought cover and into plug for the insert..
Something like that, yeah?
Nothing to it, just adds about two more days to the project.. :cheers:
All the while Ms Rick is gonna be tapping her foot thinking "will this damn thing EVER get done! :mrgreen:
Rick how many doll houses/ fancy jewelry boxes you gonna have to build to off set this project? :wink:
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Dave I didn't quite follow you on that, but here is what I was talking about:
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//675/Drill.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//675/fill.JPG)
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Damn! Maybe I'm too late, but if you can remove those inserts it would be better to over-drill and create a cavity in the stringer foam and fill it with thickened epoxy. Then you can reset your inserts and have a guaranteed waterproof setup.
I glued them in - doubt those babies are coming back out.
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All the while Ms Rick is gonna be tapping her foot thinking "will this damn thing EVER get done! :mrgreen:
Rick how many doll houses/ fancy jewelry boxes you gonna have to build to off set this project? :wink:
Actually she doesn't really mind - knows where to find me if she needs something.
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Dave I didn't quite follow you on that, but here is what I was talking about:
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//675/fill.JPG)
That's it Carl but I would have to put the cover on and drill through the whole show.. If I measured it with a micrometer, lined it up with a lazer to within .0001 and layed it out with a scribe and dyechem blue, as soon as I hit it with a drill (and the pieces were not clamped together) the dadblag holes would move :shock: :shock: :oops: .. I always try and blame it on coreolis effect, tectonic movement or hysteresis... Whatever sounded good at the time.. :mrgreen:
That's a bonus Rick, if Laura thinks I am I the barn and finds me in the Boatshop the conversation doesn't start well and I know it's my fault cause I didn't tell her where I was gonna be.. You'd think after 30 years I'd learn. :roll: :roll:
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Hysterisis...damn, haven't heard that term in a while. Back to my Copperhead days at Lockheed-Martin. Gyro test failure-Hysterisis...
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That's it Carl but I would have to put the cover on and drill through the whole show.. If I measured it with a micrometer, lined it up with a lazer to within .0001 and layed it out with a scribe and dyechem blue, as soon as I hit it with a drill (and the pieces were not clamped together) the dadblag holes would move .. I always try and blame it on coreolis effect, tectonic movement or hysteresis... Whatever sounded good at the time..
Gotcha now! :cheers: I like to work by the old rule; Measure once and cut twice, or measure once grab another board... Whatever, either way it obviously isn't our fault. :mrgreen:
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I went out and tried all the bolts into the hatch and all but 4 lined up nicely. I will have to fuss with those 4 but out of 14 that isn't too bad.
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Wow Rick, you have got alot done, time for me to stop by and see it all in person again, will you be around this week ?
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Wow Rick, you have got alot done, time for me to stop by and see it all in person again, will you be around this week ?
I'm back to work this week unfortunately
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Wow Rick, you have got alot done, time for me to stop by and see it all in person again, will you be around this week ?
I'm back to work this week unfortunately
Jolly old England?
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Wow Rick, you have got alot done, time for me to stop by and see it all in person again, will you be around this week ?
I'm back to work this week unfortunately
Don't forget the donuts.
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Jolly old England?
Yup, mid January.
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Jolly old England?
Yup, mid January.
Where Maggie was born, Clapham Common, south London...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clapham_Common (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clapham_Common)
A little bit different now than it was 50 some years ago...
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Looks like a nice place and you'd be surprised at how well they keep the specially designated land "special". The country won't sell it and people enjoy it.
I "pit stop" in London usually on the long trips, mid-way through so my buddy can go home. We always go to the same place to teach - must be 18 or so trips now and we stay in this town http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stamford,_Lincolnshire (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stamford,_Lincolnshire). Took almost 2 years to find the right place to stay that was still close to work, and treats a business man the way they need. A lot of the places we stayed at were more of a "getaway" place that served breakfast after we left for work, and opened the pub late so we were eating at 8 pm or so. Took a while. Stamford was just voted the best place to live in the midlands (there goes the neighborhood :wink: )
It is a very quaint town that keeps it's property values high to keep the riff-raff (middle easterners and most eastern bloc people) that usually move into a neighborhood and over time, "take it over" like they have in Birmingham and London (I heard Manchester is mostly middle eastern people now) and devalue the neighborhoods. I don't have anything against most cultures and I've traveled a ton, but I can tell you the Brits do. They want it to be the way it was and since the open borders happened in the EU, these "undesirable" people can move wherever they want and everything is socialized so they swoop in and mop up all the free benefits, jobs, etc.
If you scroll down to "landmarks", the Burghley House property adjoins the hotel we stay at. It's like 4500 acres and a beautiful walk.
The number one baby boys name in London the last two years has been "Mohammed", so that tells you the ethnicity that is taking over, not just in London but the country.
We have our own problems here in the states to worry about though, so no room to talk.
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So true Rick, so true. Maggie reminesces about England, as if it's still the way she remembers it. Unfortunately, it isn't...
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AD 61....Roman Empire. Nothing like Europe for history.
Sounds like a neat place to hang....pretty, and bet the locals are good folk too :thumright:
Rick, as the guys say....you're getting a fine job. Especially how you've bedded the tank hatch with threaded sleeves. That will pay off down the road.
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AD 61....Roman Empire. Nothing like Europe for history.
Aqueducts and what have you... :wink:
Rick, in all honesty, what you are doing in the course of your re-build is mostly overkill...and you know it. But you know what? There is absolutely nothing wrong with that...zero, zip, nada, zilch. Your 170 will last forever and a day, out live you, your kids, their kids, and, if the world is still around by then, other peoples kids!
Keep up the good work, enjoy GB while you're over there, maybe take a weekend and head north to Northumberland, bordering Scotland, very pretty up there...
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head north to Northumberland, bordering Scotland, very pretty up there...
Go see the Palace and bring back some of the Queen's nuts. :idea:
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head north to Northumberland, bordering Scotland, very pretty up there...
Go see the Palace and bring back some of the Queen's nuts. :idea:
What kind of nuts? :mrgreen:
Oh yea, it's overkill...but that's the best thing. Same as we tried for. When you get into it....damn the torpedoes and damn the money. Throw a boat out there the grandkids can be proud to be seen in. For many years to come.
When he hangs the engine....pumps fuel in the tank for the first time....then back to the driveway and cranks her.....oooo-baby!
I was very fortunate. Was blessed in many ways with great friends who cared.
Jumping her on plane for the first time was the best. It's not the same boat. So much stiffer. Heavy on the bottom where you need it. And strong. Real strong on the entry.
These rebuilds are a lot of work.
But in the end...you can't put a price on warm and fuzzy :thumright:
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Looking good Rick as usual. Love the inserts, thats a great idea with the nidacore.
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head north to Northumberland, bordering Scotland, very pretty up there...
Go see the Palace and bring back some of the Queen's nuts. :idea:
What kind of nuts? :mrgreen:
Cashews, almonds and of course, Bombay mix.
http://www.ndtv.com/article/world/queen ... old-458115 (http://www.ndtv.com/article/world/queen-elizabeth-went-nuts-over-nibbles-court-told-458115)
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:lol: :lol:
Old bat needs a job! :mrgreen:
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That's just weird...
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Next step for me is get the liner ready to roll back into the boat. The fishing rod inserts slide into a cutout in the side of the liner and when I removed the inserts way back when, they were through-bolted. What I noticed was that a few of the bolts missed any fiberglass and were just "there". I lam'd a few layers of cloth, marked the pieces holding them against the insert and glued it to the inside of the liner.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1073.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8818&title=cimg1073&cat=646)
The next step in this rebuild is to sand and sand and.... then eventually re-gel the liner - gonna be fun.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1074.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8819&title=cimg1074&cat=646)
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I needed to pack away the tools and clean up the work area before I left for the UK so I decided to put the console in the boat this time - looks pretty good there
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1068.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8813&title=cimg1068&cat=646)
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(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1069.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8814&title=cimg1069&cat=646)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1070.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8815&title=cimg1070&cat=646)
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(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1072.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8817&title=cimg1072&cat=646)
Pulled the excess hose down into the tank well
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1071.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8816&title=cimg1071&cat=646)
It's nice not to see the tarp anymore. I bought a camouflage version so it should be invisible to the casual eye :wink:
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Yep, its indivisible to the naked eye :wink:
Good stuff.
The console with toe kick will install clean. The narrow width will add to fishability/ease of movement, access forward.
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Looks good rick, know you'll be glad when you return and are able to work on her some more...Safe travels to you.. :thumright:
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Rick,
Most impressive what you've got going on with that rebuild. I'm just reconditioning my 170 (1986), putting in a new fuel tank, swapping out seats for leaning post, etc., but it's pretty clear I need to do something about the worn nonskid. I know it's jumping the gun here, but I was wondering what your plan is when you get to that part? Are you going to paint with a traction additive or go some other route?
Thanks, HeavyDinSC
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Thanks Heavy :salut: ,
I'll be doing the non-skid this way http://www.classicaquasport.com/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1991
It's very easy, costs very little, custom color-able and is very durable.
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Rick I was hoping you were back at it. :cry:
Oh we'll. it's been freezing over here to cold to go out and look at the boat. Maybe this weekend back in the 70's.
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I have been back at it but doing mundane stuff like grinding and sanding on the liner and the rod storage pieces. Stuff not worthy of pics yet. I hope to get the liner/cap flipped this weekend and start grinding/sanding and drilling/cutting on the top side of it. There is a lot to do on the top side. Long weekend for me so I'll get some done.
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Rick,
Thanks. OK. Good advice and looks relatively easy. I'll source some gelcoat and beads and get that project on the list.
Thanks again.
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Mr Monotonous here...
Been working on the cap/liner and the rod inserts for too long. :roll: Almost ready to spray gelcoat.
I flipped the liner onto some saw horses. I cut in the LED NAV lights and the pop up cleat into the bow end of the cap.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1077.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9075&title=cimg1077&cat=646)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1075.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9080&title=cimg1075&cat=646)
Hard to see some of the work
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1076.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9081&title=cimg1076&cat=646)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1079.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9077&title=cimg1079&cat=646)
Getting closer....
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Will she be ready by the 3rd of May? :?:
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Looking good Rick :thumleft: ! It may not seem like it, but you are making good progress. I may have missed it - did you re-core your cap with plascore?
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Will she be ready by the 3rd of May? :?:
Yup
But it won't this year :roll:
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Looking good Rick :thumleft: ! It may not seem like it, but you are making good progress.
It's some monotonous stuff though.
I may have missed it - did you re-core your cap with plascore?
I recored the front part of the cap with plascore - you can see it in the cutouts in one of the first few pics of this series. I will add plascore wherever I add the rear pop-up cleats.
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I recored the front part of the cap with plascore - you can see it in the cutouts in one of the first few pics of this series. I will add plascore wherever I add the rear pop-up cleats.
That is what spawned my question. What process did you use? Did you add any glass between the cap and the core, or just thickened resin? Also, does the core extend all the way to the outer edge of the cap? The reason I ask is that the shoe box lip of the cap overhangs the hull by maybe 1-1/2 to 2 inches. If you add 1/2 to 3/4 inches of core/glass all the way to the edge, the overhang will be that much smaller, meaning there is less interfacing material for thru-bolting the cap to the hull. I know many people have added coring to their caps, but I don't recall ever seeing the details of how they did it.
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I recored the front part of the cap with plascore - you can see it in the cutouts in one of the first few pics of this series. I will add plascore wherever I add the rear pop-up cleats.
That is what spawned my question. What process did you use? Did you add any glass between the cap and the core, or just thickened resin? Also, does the core extend all the way to the outer edge of the cap? The reason I ask is that the shoe box lip of the cap overhangs the hull by maybe 1-1/2 to 2 inches. If you add 1/2 to 3/4 inches of core/glass all the way to the edge, the overhang will be that much smaller, meaning there is less interfacing material for thru-bolting the cap to the hull. I know many people have added coring to their caps, but I don't recall ever seeing the details of how they did it.
Yea youd wanna stop the coring a couple inches from the edge just for that reason.
Rick, don't know if you've done it or not yet, but where the cleat cut out is youre gonna wanna dig out some of the plascore and fill it with something solid (leave the skins). and put a nice backing plate behind of course. Id go at least an inch outside of the footprint of the cleat with the solid core. Same with the mounting screws for the nav light, hollow some core out and fill the void so youre screwing into more than the skin. Looks like youre going with a pop up style light? Id even thrubolt it if you can, ive seen anchor lines rip off more than a few nav lights.
For the stern cleats I would skip the plascore and just layup some thick solid glass core and tab em in those areas. Im sure you've got plenty of scrap to layup a 1/4" thick sheet.
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Thanks Dirt! That's exactly what I was looking for!
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Hi guys - always thinking ain't ya? That's what I like about you all. :salut:
Remember this pic? Pic says at least a 100 words. I cut glass to go under the plascore and up the lip of the liner and while it was wet I resined up the plascore and layed it in the wet undercloth and then covered the plascore in cloth and put some visqueen/blocks on it. The cap is bowed up a little on the top side so I needed to do it all wet on wet. The plascore can follow a little curve.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0989.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8716&title=cimg0989&cat=646)
Chris, the cleats I have are through bolted. See attachment, I can't seem to rotate it and save the file but the cleat is the right-hand picture "Studded Version". It comes with a backer plate and I bought the water containment cup for each.
Do you think I should lam up a 1/4" of cloth and add it underneath the plascore under the front cleat, provided the bolts are long enough?
I think you are right about the approach for the rear cleats. I have plenty of cloth left :roll:
The front light is a popup and it'll through bolt.
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Remember this pic? Pic says at least a 100 words.
:oops: Doh! I remember it now! Sorry, I didn't have time earlier to go back and see if you already answered my question. But I should have known that you are two steps (or more) ahead of me!
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Front cleat should be fine with the backing plate they give ya. As long as the plascore there is replaced with something that wont crush when thrubolted. Trace the cleats footprint then hollow the core out maybe an inch past it and fill with something hi density.
Or you can always cut the bottom skin there and replace the lil bit of plascore with something and glass back over while its off the boat. Id do it this way( let gravity work for ya). Then just recut the hole in your new crush proof core...
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quote:
Cut the bottom skin there and replace the lil bit of plascore with something and glass back over while its off the boat. Id do it this way( let gravity work for ya). Then just recut the hole in your new crush proof core...[/quote]
Rick, we have some high density Permalloy (Penske Board) here. Say the word, happy to ship it.
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Remember this pic? Pic says at least a 100 words.
:oops: Doh! I remember it now! Sorry, I didn't have time earlier to go back and see if you already answered my question. But I should have known that you are two steps (or more) ahead of me!
:lol:
I'm only two steps ahead of you because I started my rebuild before you :wink:
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quote:
Cut the bottom skin there and replace the lil bit of plascore with something and glass back over while its off the boat. Id do it this way( let gravity work for ya). Then just recut the hole in your new crush proof core...
Rick, we have some high density Permalloy (Penske Board) here. Say the word, happy to ship it.[/quote]
If you have some small scrap laying around, that will fill the need.
PM Sent - thanks Scott.
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3/4 inch Permalloy heading south.
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Thanks a lot Scott :salut:
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Received the package Scott. :cheers:
The added "hint" for my better half was a nice touch? My wife loved the products in the book - thanks :roll: She also thanks you for the cleaner :thumleft:
The "munchies" are good too - never had the goobers before.
Maybe you can turn that charm on advertisers here :idea:
Anyway, the Coosa looks stout and like it will work fine and I hope to get it installed this weekend.
Thanks again Scott - family taking care of family.
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My pleasure Rick. Figured since was sending a box, may as well enclose a few goodies for the Admiral :wink: Hope she enjoys!
We've been family around here since day one. One of the most generous is Captain Bob. He's forwarded many nice things to the Carolinas and beyond. Another shout-out to Iceman....am sure you guys are aware of his generosity. And the list goes on and on. Best to all, present and future, for your membership here :thumright:
Thanks for the call....sounds like you have a full day planned for tomorrow.
Your work is top-drawer...looking forward to the pics! :salut:
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Started the chilly day off with mounting the rod panels into the cutouts and securing them with bolts and pem nuts. Then I asked my wife and my buddy Eddie to help me flip the liner upside down.
I then glassed the back portions of the cap back on.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1082.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9181&title=cimg1082&cat=646)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1083.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9182&title=cimg1083&cat=646)
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Now that the liner is upside down I can route out the areas by the front cleat and nav light and reinforce them with the coosa that Scott sent down.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1085.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9184&title=cimg1085&cat=646)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1084.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9183&title=cimg1084&cat=646)
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I "5 minute" epoxied them in
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1088.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9185&title=cimg1088&cat=646)
The coosa was a layer of glass shy of level so I lam'd a layer of cloth scraps on and then I lam'd a piece of cloth over everything. I also added a block of plascore that I over drilled, filled with thickened epoxy, buttered up the bottom of it and stuck it down and then covered it with cloth. This block is where I'll mount the terminal studs for the trolling motor power. Power from the battery will mount here as well as the wires going to the plug. I'll post pics of this later.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1089.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9186&title=cimg1089&cat=646)
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It'll be out of sight and easy to access the terminals
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1090.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9187&title=cimg1090&cat=646)
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Rick, just out of curiosity, how much denero do you think you have invested in the re-build so far?
Excellent work by the way. :thumright: :thumright:
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Rick, just out of curiosity, how much denero do you think you have invested in the re-build so far?
Excellent work by the way. :thumright: :thumright:
$16,821.....................no wait.....
that's mothers in Nashville.
Sorry.
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Rick, just out of curiosity, how much denero do you think you have invested in the re-build so far?
Excellent work by the way. :thumright: :thumright:
A few more dollars than I wanted to - mostly in epoxy resin. I have some big ticket items ahead as I finish up.
Thanks.
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I added about 8 layers of cloth to reinforce where the rear cleats will go - should harden by next week :roll:
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1091.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9193&title=cimg1091&cat=646)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1092.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9194&title=cimg1092&cat=646)
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I installed the lugs and trimmed out the cloth over the holes
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1093.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9195&title=cimg1093&cat=646)
Then I dry fit the front cleat. I am going to cut cork as a gasket under the cleat when I install for real. I wonder why they would no include nylocs instead of this type of nut :scratch:
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1094.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9196&title=cimg1094&cat=646)
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Main reason to dry fit was to get the water catch bowl pre-drilled into the coosa.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1095.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9197&title=cimg1095&cat=646)
And then lightly tightened down.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1096.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9198&title=cimg1096&cat=646)
Then removed everything and put it back away.
Have to wait until the epoxy hardens to do any more destruction :twisted:
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:thumleft:
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Looking good Rick
Those lugs look familiar, as I just bout a few from Marine Surplus in Bradenton.
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That's where I bought them too - small world :salut:
Are you located in Sarasota area? Planning on coming out to the next gathering the first weekend in May at Buncee Pass? Great way to meet some local members and it usually lasts about 4-6 hours. The party before and after is also fun :wink:
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Pop-up cleat install is deluxe.
Agree, on the final install, go with the ny-loks.
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That's where I bought them too - small world :salut:
Are you located in Sarasota area? Planning on coming out to the next gathering the first weekend in May at Buncee Pass? Great way to meet some local members and it usually lasts about 4-6 hours. The party before and after is also fun :wink:
I'm just south of you, Port Charlotte. I will be there if I am off. I wont be in my Aquasport, so don't hold that against me. (it wont be done :oops: )
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Come on out - doesn't matter what you're in.
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Do you trailer up or drive up there through the ICW
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We'll trailer up and launch at Ft Desoto - they have a HUGE ramp area and the place is monitored by the Rangers. Plus they have facilities.
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Just received in the mail and need to get the backers installed before I flip the liner and set it in the boat.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1104.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9263&title=cimg1104&cat=646)
I laid it out (with the help of Capt Matt :salut: ), measured and marked it, then routed the plascore for the coosa backers.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1109.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9266&title=cimg1109&cat=646)
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Set the coosa in place
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1108.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9265&title=cimg1108&cat=646)
Cut the mat and cloth
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1110.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9267&title=cimg1110&cat=646)
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Measured and documented everything for when it comes time to install the mount
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1111.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9268&title=cimg1111&cat=646)
Glassed them in
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1112.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9269&title=cimg1112&cat=646)
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I finished bolting the rod holders in and then I put some 1/4" foam strips on the back of them since I'm not real certain how close to the hull they'll end up. I assume there is some distance but this way if they are close and the hull flexes, like going over a wave, the holders won't make any noise. May not need them but just in case.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1113.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9270&title=cimg1113&cat=646)
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Really nice Rick! The steady progress is really impressive :salut:
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Thanks Dave.
To finish up the weekend I flipped the liner over on the saw horses, finished the ends of the liner that I had cut off and re-attached last weekend and also cut in the cleats. Port.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1114.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9272&title=cimg1114&cat=646)
Starboard - both liner tops look plenty thick now to support the cleats and if someone attempted to lift the boat by them.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1115.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9273&title=cimg1115&cat=646)
And marked where the "puck" of the trolling motor mount will go.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1116.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9274&title=cimg1116&cat=646)
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Excellent work, Rick! :thumleft: :thumleft:
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Started the day off with my buddies Dave and Ed helping me hoist the liner into the boat. Took all of 5 minutes but was awkward.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1126.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9294&title=cimg1126&cat=646)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1127.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9295&title=cimg1127&cat=646)
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As you can see there is some scribing and cutting to make it fit. Anyway, these (and above) pics were taken at 10AM.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1128.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9296&title=cimg1128&cat=646)
Kinda figured the liner would not allow the fill hoses under the sides so I'm glad I planned the fill to come up in front.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1129.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9297&title=cimg1129&cat=646)
The front portion of the sole is where the casting deck will sit (you can see where I cut the casting deck out of the liner), so the sole will be supporting the casting deck about a foot at least.
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The following pics were taken at 2PM. Got her all scribed in. Had to trim it about 8 times but slowly got it cut in.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1130.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9298&title=cimg1130&cat=646)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1131.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9299&title=cimg1131&cat=646)
Next is to put in the casting deck and see how much I need to trim off the front of the liner. Since I raised the floor the height and angle of it has changed a bit.
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Is the fuel vent going to be forward too and if so how are you going to keep water out? (think I missed that, Riddelin ain't workin :mrgreen: :oops:). Damn near a dead fit on the liner, that must make the afternoon tea taste mighty good at this point :mrgreen: :thumleft: !!
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Hi Dave,
The fill I bought has a vent inside it. So yes, both of those hoses you see up front are going to the fill. The fill came with an additional "washer like thing" to elevate the fill above the hull cap a 1/4" to keep water from getting in and going down the vent tube. Sucker takes a weird size hole saw though - 2 1/16". I just ordered one. I think I have more sizes of hole saws than HD now :roll: I could cut it out with a jig saw but I like the clean hole the saw gives you.
Just dug out the casting deck and hauled it up on saw horses. The backing wood still looks good but the overall piece is going to need a good grinding :twisted: I also need to grind the bottom edge of the liner where it meets the sole - that ain't going to be any fun inside the boat.
One day at a time. It's beer thirty now. :mrgreen:
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Got it Rick! I just had this image of you out there having an "Old Man and The Sea" moment, playing in a pass with 8 footers and digging every second of it until the OOPPS! :oops: that only teenagers have (yeah right :shock: :roll: :oops: ) as green water comes over the bow, then the old dude comes back to the surface thinking sonnnooffaabiscuit how much water'd I just push in the tank... :mrgreen: None of us have been there :roll: ..
Beer thirty.. A sad day when the BIG can is empty.. A note to the boys, ANYTIME you get a chance to try a Schwartzbier, DO IT!! :thumright: :thumleft:
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Looking good Rick it's starting to look like a boat again. :cheers:
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Got it Rick! I just had this image of you out there having an "Old Man and The Sea" moment, playing in a pass with 8 footers and digging every second of it until the OOPPS! :oops: that only teenagers have (yeah right :shock: :roll: :oops: ) as green water comes over the bow, then the old dude comes back to the surface thinking sonnnooffaabiscuit how much water'd I just push in the tank... :mrgreen: None of us have been there :roll: ..
Beer thirty.. A sad day when the BIG can is empty.. A note to the boys, ANYTIME you get a chance to try a Schwartzbier, DO IT!! :thumright: :thumleft:
Doesn't mean that I won't have that Senior Moment but I usually don't go out through a pass that has some 4ftrs let alone 8 ftrs, in my 170. I did do a U-ey one time when I did start to go through the Venice Jetties when the perfect storm of wind and tide stacked up the waves in the pass to like 4 ft. That was tricky to do a U-ey in between the waves and take off again before the next wave filled the back of the boat up.
If I'd been in my 230 I would have gone through it.
Thanks Fishon - it is coming along. Have a bit to do before I can stick it down though. After I glass it in I need to take out the rod holders and get everything ready for gelcoat.
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Got some grinding done yesterday
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1132.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9309&title=cimg1132&cat=646)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1133.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9310&title=cimg1133&cat=646)
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Started working on the casting deck. Here I have it upside sown on the saw horses and have cleaned up the front.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1134.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9311&title=cimg1134&cat=646)
Here is the storage area hatch
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1135.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9312&title=cimg1135&cat=646)
The coring came out in one piece and the original coring was 1/4" plywood. I had added a top layer of 1/2" some years back to help stiffen it.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1136.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9316&title=cimg1136&cat=646)
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The hatch needs a good grinding.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1137.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9317&title=cimg1137&cat=646)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1138.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9318&title=cimg1138&cat=646)
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On the underside of the casting deck the coring seems to be ok but I cut out the coring in the area around the screw holes where the hatch lid mounted. I'll glue in some coosa in the two areas.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1139.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9319&title=cimg1139&cat=646)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1140.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9320&title=cimg1140&cat=646)
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Nice work :thumleft:
Are you going to recore the hatch with wood again or go composite?
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Thanks.
Recore will be composite - I have a few large chunks of Plascore left so I think I'll go with that. I'd really like to recore the casting deck to lighten it up but the coring seems fine.
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Rick you better get all that nasty cutting and grinding out of the way before it gets hot down there in flor-Ida. I give it another 3-4 weeks and it will be in the 90's here. Ugh!
Looking good though.
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I weighed the cloth and got a good idea of what I needed for the lid and added some weight for wetting the plascore scrim and other things I needed to lam.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1141.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9358&title=cimg1141&cat=646)
Got it lam'd up
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1142.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9359&title=cimg1142&cat=646)
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How'd you like that actual math - old style without a phone or calculator :mrgreen:
Anyway, this should be big improvement over the last lam.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1143.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9360&title=cimg1143&cat=646)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1144.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9361&title=cimg1144&cat=646)
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How'd you like that actual math - old style without a phone or calculator
Is that how you do that? :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
I have forgotten how to do math without a phone or calculator :!: :!: :!: :idea: :idea: :idea:
Looks great Rick. :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :salut: :salut: :salut:
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I LOVE old skool. I talk to my kid all the time about doing math that way. I tell her the same as my grandfather told me "How will you figure out something if that dang battery goes dead and you need an answer now!" She looks at me like I lost my mind :roll: Kids I tell you now days... :lol: But she holds a 3.75 gpa
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How'd you like that actual math - old style without a phone or calculator :mrgreen:
When I was engineering school they sold some Jeff Foxworthy spinoff "you might be an engineering student if.." shirts and one of the things were "if you can solve differential equations but can't remember how to do long division". When I saw that I jotted some numbers down and and almost had to research myself how to do it! Every once in a while I'll do it by hand just to make sure I remember :wink:
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Looking good Rick :thumleft: Are you using the vacuum bagging system for these lams?
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Nope, "cinder block compression method". :mrgreen:
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I guess I should have figured that out from the picture :oops: . You seem to get the glass to conform well to the beveled edge of the plascore. Good work!
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I didn't fill the honeycomb on the edges this time so there is a little air at that spot. The rest it tight. I was more worried about how the cloth would follow the curve of the edge.
Here was the lam schedule:
1 layer 1808 against the lid and up the edge of the outer lip
1 4" wide 1808 strip along the front edge of the lid to support it better - had a cracking problem there before
1 3/4oz matt the size of the plascore to give the 1808 and 1708 a little grip
1 1708 the size of the plascore
1 piece 3/4" plascore wet out on both sides
1 1708 the size of the 1708 on the outer side
1 layer 1708 to cover it all and up the edge of the outer lip
Should be stout as can be. Took every bit of 50oz of epoxy to lam it up.
I just removed the blocks and plastic and it's looking pretty good. Weighs about 10 lbs now.
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How'd you like that actual math - old style without a phone or calculator
I that how you do that? :mrgreen:
I have forgotten how to do math without a phone or calculator :!: :idea:
Looks great Rick. :cheers: :salut:
I could loan you a slide rule... :oops:
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How'd you like that actual math - old style without a phone or calculator
I that how you do that? :mrgreen:
I have forgotten how to do math without a phone or calculator :!: :idea:
Looks great Rick. :cheers: :salut:
I could loan you a slide rule... :oops:
I wish I could find mine. Got the directions though. :mrgreen:
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/DSC06508.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9376&title=dsc06508&cat=500)
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I didn't fill the honeycomb on the edges this time so there is a little air at that spot. The rest it tight. I was more worried about how the cloth would follow the curve of the edge.
Here was the lam schedule:
1 layer 1808 against the lid and up the edge of the outer lip
1 4" wide 1808 strip along the front edge of the lid to support it better - had a cracking problem there before
1 3/4oz matt the size of the plascore to give the 1808 and 1708 a little grip
1 1708 the size of the plascore
1 piece 3/4" plascore wet out on both sides
1 1708 the size of the 1708 on the outer side
1 layer 1708 to cover it all and up the edge of the outer lip
Should be stout as can be. Took every bit of 50oz of epoxy to lam it up.
I just removed the blocks and plastic and it's looking pretty good. Weighs about 10 lbs now.
Oh man, with all the overbuilding, is that boat going to float or are you taking on the navy as it is a battleship :shock: :lol: :salut: Looking good
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CB, no wonder the missus is squawking at you for being a pack rat - not 1 in 10 people remember what one of those things are yet you still have the books on it - go figure :lol:
86 - you're right, maybe I do have a tendency of over building :oops:
Anyway, in Carl's name I completed grinding today :cheers:
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1145.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9448&title=cimg1145&cat=646)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1146.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9449&title=cimg1146&cat=646)
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I added some backer coosa where the swivels will be for the front wood on the front side of the casting deck
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1147.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9450&title=cimg1147&cat=646)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1148.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9451&title=cimg1148&cat=646)
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Then I hoisted the casting deck into the boat to see how it fit ---- drum rolll
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1150.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9453&title=cimg1150&cat=646)
:oops:
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1149.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9452&title=cimg1149&cat=646)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1151.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9454&title=cimg1151&cat=646)
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It's about 1.5" short all the way around, 'cept the front
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1152.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9455&title=cimg1152&cat=646)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1153.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9456&title=cimg1153&cat=646)
Based on how the casting deck is sitting, looks like I raised the deck about 4" in the front of the boat :shock: Didn't seem to measure that much.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1154.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9457&title=cimg1154&cat=646)
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(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1155.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9458&title=cimg1155&cat=646)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1156.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9459&title=cimg1156&cat=646)
Well, I would reckon I'm not done with grinding either :oops:
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It's about 1.5" short all the way around, 'cept the front
It looks like you may need more caulk. :idea:
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Huh... How did you manage to make the boat wider? :scratch:
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Huh... How did you manage to make the boat wider? :scratch:
The deck stretcher has multiple applications... :shock: :wink:
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The deck stretcher has multiple applications... :shock: :wink:
I dont want to even know :shock: :lol:
Rick, there are a few ways to fix that. If you want to keep the casting deck the height you intended, just remove the inner floor on the deck and grind it down to fit on the edges. You will have a smaller compartment but easy.
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First, Rick, where was the fwd edge of the casting deck before, in relation to the anchor locker opening? I'd have to think probably 2"-3" below the opening, accomodate room for the flange of the locker hatch. I'd tend to agree with 86, cut out the secondary floor of the fishbox, let the cockpit sole be the "floor", and start lowering. Do you have the hull flanges at the original beam dimensions before you removed the deck (cap)?
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The deck stretcher has multiple applications...
One will never forget a really good deck stretcher... :cheers: :lol:
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The sides of the liner flare outward from bottom to top and the casting deck didn't change. CB, more caulk it is, I guess :lol:
I need the depth of the storage box (not a fish box - just a board encloses it) since the boat didn't gain any storage in the rebuild, so cutting that down is not an option. I am thinking of cutting in another hatch forward of the storage box. I'm not sure what I'll put under it, maybe a hammock type thing to hold whatever you put in it.
SB, your estimate is correct, there is about 3" below the access hole in the front. You can see it better here
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1128.JPG)
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What if you shorten the front of the deck and move it forward? The boat gets smaller the further forward you go right? I know you till have to add onto the inwales a bit.
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It's a challenge any way I go. I'll think about it and then tackle this when I get back from a trip to the UK tomorrow.
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The deck stretcher has multiple applications...
One will never forget a really good deck stretcher... :cheers: :lol:
Anyone know where I can find a good deck stretcher? Not that I really need one, of course :oops:
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Yeah but the only problem is when you use the deck stretcher 2000 you end up with a very narrow beam amidships and then a much wider beam at the bow and stern. :roll: :lol:
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Went out today and tried to make sense of where I left off, stared a lot (sound familiar?) and then stared some more. Everything was where I left it, no progress since I left it a few weeks ago :cry:
So, I decided to pull the casting deck from the boat and start carving it up. Additional hatch: I calc'd the best place and the best size based on the available space and hoping to leave enough material to still be strong.
I cut it out, routed a 1/2" from the edge leaving the bottom glass ledge and then epoxied some jasper board into that space to form the edge
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1157.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9587&title=cimg1157&cat=646)
I cut out a slot between the two hatches that will funnel the water from my new hatch to the gutters of the existing hatch - we'll see how this goes
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1158.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9588&title=cimg1158&cat=646)
Starting to feel like summer out there - couldn't make it past more that 2pm before I started overheating and getting that "Beer thirty" survival signal.
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Rick, only 4 days until May...our "official" start of summer... :(
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I'm glad to see that your back :!:
One quick question... Where are you running your fuel fill and vent to? I see in the pic below that you have them running up to the bow.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1128.JPG)
Thanks!
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Trying to catch up on missed post from the past couple months and run across this. Sitting here LMAO then thinking... I better rethink my deck layout on the 24 Proline. :shock: :shock: "more chaulk" :D :D :D :D :D
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I'm glad to see that your back :!:
One quick question... Where are you running your fuel fill and vent to? I see in the pic below that you have them running up to the bow.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1128.JPG)
Thanks!
The hoses will come up just inside and to the left in the pic - on the port gunnel about even with the face of the liner. There was no room anywhere to sneak the hoses behind the liner and didn't want to build boxes to cover them. That reminds me that I need to go out and glue down the "guides".
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I'm back at it - man it seems summer is here.
I found a perfect size PVC pipe to make the drain channel from
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1160.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9699&title=cimg1160&cat=646)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1161.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9700&title=cimg1161&cat=646)
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I started laying 3/4 oz mat on the new edge and laid a few layers of mat on it - tough to get it to stay over the slight rounded edge I filed on the jasper board.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1162.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9701&title=cimg1162&cat=646)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1163.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9702&title=cimg1163&cat=646)
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Time to start making the hatch so I blocked out a form on a piece of plywood and screwed down the outside edge that I needed
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1164.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9703&title=cimg1164&cat=646)
I mixed some bondo and filleted the edges of the hatch
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1165.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9704&title=cimg1165&cat=646)
Cut the glass - 3 layers - 1.5oz/1708/1.5oz
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1166.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9705&title=cimg1166&cat=646)
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I laid cheap plastic drop cloth inside the form and then I mixed the poly and let it rip on the 3 layers
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1167.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9706&title=cimg1167&cat=646)
After it kicked I waited a while and then I popped it out of the form and it doesn't look too bad.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1168.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9707&title=cimg1168&cat=646)
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Rick, I finally made it over to look at your rebuild pics to see what you were speaking of regarding the plastic drop cloth. I admit, when you explained, It became clear, but the pictures are awesome. I'm very impressed with your work!! Thank you for the messages regarding my Aquasport rebuild!!
And I have realized, it doesn't matter how long I stand at my Transom and stare inside to over-think, I can not will anything to actually happen. I suppose I watched too much Bewitched as a kid. So come next week, I have to go back to grinding and sanding. Or find a Jeannie bottle. :D
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Looking really great, Rick :thumleft: . One thing I have done with good success, when it comes to getting the glass to follow tight corners, is to cover the wet glass with plastic, then lay cheap cushion material from Walmart on the plastic, and then compress it with either duct tape or with an "L" shaped plywood form (weighted down and braced in the lateral direction). Makes the fiberglass follow the shape of the underlying material.
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Thanks Craig.
Today I need to work on the backing of the hatch. Going to take some thinking because I'm going to have to design a lip on the lid support to lock into the hatch which hopefully will keep water out and channel water to the drain. I'm going to use 1/2" Jasper board for the backing lam'd with some cloth to beef it up. I'll be done in epoxy to give it the strength it needs. Going to use epoxy for the lid support too. We'll see how it goes today. If it's a viable solution I will retro the rear hatch with the same lip system.
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A little more progress - did a little grinding/shaping on the hatch opening
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1169.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9708&title=cimg1169&cat=646)
Dry fit - a little snug but still pretty good.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1170.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9709&title=cimg1170&cat=646)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1171.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9710&title=cimg1171&cat=646)
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Had to notch the hatch a little to fit over the drain
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1172.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9711&title=cimg1172&cat=646)
Here is a guide drawn on plastic for the layup of the hatch support.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1173.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9712&title=cimg1173&cat=646)
Here is the layup with epoxy - 4 layers of 1708
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1175.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9714&title=cimg1175&cat=646)
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and I put a layer of 1708 on each side of the jasper board also.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1177.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9716&title=cimg1177&cat=646)
Finished the day up with adding another layer of mat on the hatch opening edge.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1174.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9713&title=cimg1174&cat=646)
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Ok, so where'd I leave off.
I lam'd 1 more layer of 1708 on the inside of the hatch, buttered up the backing I made , laid that into the hatch and covered with another layer of 1708. Covered it with a drop cloth and laid some blocks on it for next week. This is how it came out of the plastic
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1178.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9872&title=cimg1178&cat=646)
Cleaned up the outside a bit
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1179.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9873&title=cimg1179&cat=646)
Set it in the opening for a double check on drain pipe clearance.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1180.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9874&title=cimg1180&cat=646)
Next I started on the hatch support. I trimmed it down, notched where it needed to be
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1182.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9876&title=cimg1182&cat=646)
and traced the outside edge so I knew how much to butter up.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1181.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9875&title=cimg1181&cat=646)
I mixed up some thickened epoxy and troweled it on the inside area. I then set the support into the paste and pressed it in. Nice ooze out.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1183.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9877&title=cimg1183&cat=646)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1184.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9878&title=cimg1184&cat=646)
I scraped up the excess, covered it with plastic and put a bunch of blocks on it for the night
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1185.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9879&title=cimg1185&cat=646)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1186.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9880&title=cimg1186&cat=646)
This morning removed everything, cleaned it and it came out pretty nice
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1187.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9881&title=cimg1187&cat=646)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1188.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9882&title=cimg1188&cat=646)
I flipped the deck over and cleaned up the ooze out on the top.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1189.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9883&title=cimg1189&cat=646)
The drain trough came out nice too.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1190.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9884&title=cimg1190&cat=646)
Took a little time to clean up the ooze out but it's nice and clean now
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1191.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9885&title=cimg1191&cat=646)
Dropped the hatch in for the final fit
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1192.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9886&title=cimg1192&cat=646)
It came out a little proud of the deck - hmmm - looks good though
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1193.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9887&title=cimg1193&cat=646)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1194.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9888&title=cimg1194&cat=646)
I took a router and routed out 1/8" around the edge so it could drop down a bit into the hatch area - then the hatch fit flush :cheers: (cut out all the air bubbles caused by the edge in the process :wink: )
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1195.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9889&title=cimg1195&cat=646)
Started filling in the gap around the perimeter on the casting deck so it will touch the liner. I start with poly because I will be gelcoating the inside of the boat. I will come back next weekend and lam a layer of 1708 with epoxy to stiffen it up. Then on the top I'll start building it up a little with poly before I scribe cut it to the liner.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1196.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9890&title=cimg1196&cat=646)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1197.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9891&title=cimg1197&cat=646)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1198.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9892&title=cimg1198&cat=646)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1199.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9893&title=cimg1199&cat=646)
After the sides kicked it was time to set it on end to fill in the sides of the face of the deck. Nice pic of the new width.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1200.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9894&title=cimg1200&cat=646)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1201.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9895&title=cimg1201&cat=646)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1202.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9896&title=cimg1202&cat=646)
One last pic of the hatch support. I had lam'd another layer of 3/4 oz cloth to the upper edge. I also, at the last minute (after I took this pic), I added another layer of 3/4oz in the drain trough to seal up one open area.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1203.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9897&title=cimg1203&cat=646)
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Coming out great Rick! Should look real nice when it is done :thumleft:
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Ok, let's try this again.
Before:
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1150.JPG)
After:
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1215.JPG)
I got it right with the stretcher this time :wink:
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1207.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1206.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1210.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1204.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1212.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1211.JPG)
Overall not too shabby
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1214.JPG)
I need to pull it back out and clean up everything and get it ready to stick down and glass in. I have probably 2 days work to get it cleaned up and get the new "gutter" system figured out and installed. I also need to glass in the lower portion of the front "hole" in the liner so it's about 2-3" above the deck. I really don't use it for much other than to store lines in so it doesn't have to be so big.
I'm not sure if I'll have time to work on it next weekend as I'll be in and out of town over the next couple weeks so I need to get other things done. So this might be it for the rest of the month.
Nice to have that much done though. Must be beer thirty :cheers:
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Worked a couple half days on the boat - made and glued down the "gutter" system for the front hatch.
I have found some "U-channel moulding" and when it comes in I'll put it over the vertical "gutter". I will also groove the bottom of the hatch for the rubber to slide into.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1216.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1217.JPG)
Also got the casting deck prepped and pretty much ready to glass in.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1218.JPG)
Sure is hot out there. Will start back on the console tomorrow.
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Those are some tight seems and should tab in perfectly. Looking great!!!
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Thanks Steve - they did come out kinda tight after a few tries. Fiberglass is so forgiving :wink: .
The last thing I did today was grind the sides where you can see the gelcoat at the joints. Then it was into the shower.
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So I redesigned my console and closed the front in as far as toe kick and also designed a storage area for "stuff" in the console, like my tool bag, fire extinguisher, etc.
I built a box and lined it with a drop cloth last weekend
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1224.JPG)
Lam'd 2 layers of 1708 in it
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1225.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1226.JPG)
Stripped the wood off this weekend
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1227.JPG)
Needs a good scruffing but not too bad looking. Made it it deeper than I needed so I could trim to fit
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1228.JPG)
To give you a little perspective of the size
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1229.JPG)
I trimmed it down to final size and trimmed the upper portion 1/2" less deep than the bottom so there is a built in draining. I dry fit it into the the new "hole"
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1230.JPG)
Still haven't scruffed it down yet but fits nicely
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1231.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1232.JPG)
The console is upside down and you can see the addition of the toekick in the front center and how the storage box fits
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1233.JPG)
I needed backers for the box for the bottom and the top so I lam'd some 1708 over some Plascore and also while I was at it I lam'd 6 layers of 1708 for the door to the storage. I set a bunch of blocks to keep it flat and let it set for a while.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1234.JPG)
After an hour or so I pulled the plascore out, trimmed it and then mixed some thickened resin, trowelled it on and glued it to the bottom and top
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1235.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1236.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1237.JPG)
One down and one to go
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1238.JPG)
This is the backer for the top - will throughbolt a fire extinguisher to the inside top of the storage
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1239.JPG)
I lam'd some 1.5oz CSM to cover the backers and then set it in place again and tabbed it in place with increasing size 3/4oz CSM
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1241.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1242.JPG)
After it kicked (man it was hot out this weekend) I tied in the front portion
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1244.JPG)
A little progress anyway.
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Looking good Rick :thumleft: And man, you aint kidding about the heat. Really hampering my progress lately.
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Good stuff. You're gonna enjoy the toe kick....nice touch :wink:
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great to see you slinging glass again. Looking good. I like the plascore backers. Im going to get into that stuff for the pilot house so im studying up on how your using it.
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Thanks all, the weatherman said the "feel like" was over 100 degrees this weekend. I believe it.
I forgot to post the pics of the door
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1245.JPG)
You can see it has some thickness to it - haven't decided if I need to back it or not - any ideas? Do you think this will warp? I have some 1/2" Jasper board that is big enough to back it.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1246.JPG)
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great to see you slinging glass again. Looking good. I like the plascore backers. Im going to get into that stuff for the pilot house so im studying up on how your using it.
This is a good thread to check out
http://forums.bateau2.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=58215
If you've got some time, this boat is 100% composite - infused.
http://forums.bateau2.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=28463
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If you've got some time, this boat is 100% composite - infused.
http://forums.bateau2.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=28463
Thing is pretty nuts huh ?!
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Yup. He's got some money and learning/knowledge wrapped up in that boat.
Chris, you think I should "back" the door on the console with 1/2" jasper board? You probably saw the response from Shine - not sure if two strips (top and bottom ) is enough.
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Just looked over there. I wasn't quite sure either til you explained it haha.
I don't think 6 layers would warp, especially since its not very big. If you wanna play it safe then it wont be much work to add a couple ribs or whatever. Just make sure to leave room for latch n hinges.
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Wow that infused build is another level of building. Cool stuff but boy what a mistake curve. Imagine doing such large pieces and not having the resin fully reach all areas? I would be in a panic to even try it.
That top they built was awesome and I will use some of their techniques in designing a top for my boat. Thanks for sharing!
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This weekend was all about the console again. Saturday I spent cutting the frame off the slab and gluing it on the console. Amazing how long little things like this take.
I cut out the door and bottom part of the frame from the slab and screwed it to the console. The holes are countersunk so when I remove the screws the holes will fill nicely.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1248.JPG)
A little closer look
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1247.JPG)
This is with the bottom frame attached
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1249.JPG)
The frame is made so there is a 1/4" lip of console exposed. This lip will have a "D" type weatherstrip glued to it. I built up the level of where the frame mounts with a couple layers of 1.5oz CSM to help allow for the weatherstrip. We'll see how it goes, I may need to route an edge off the door to accommodate the strip. You can seethe screw holes filled in too.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1250.JPG)
I cut an extra 1/4" off the door for the piano hinge - bandsaw works great for this. I lam'd a couple layers of the remaining slab together to have a ledge to screw the piano hinge onto the door. Then I epoxied it to the door.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1254.JPG)
A dry fit
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1252.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1251.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1253.JPG)
Next weekend is some more console cleanup work and possibly spray some gelcoat on it.
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This weekend we had a lot of rain on Saturday, so I only did a little prep on the console.
Sunday it was still threatening but never rained so I finished up the console prep.
Getting ready to shoot it next Saturday - strap
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1256.JPG)
Winch
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1257.JPG)
Ready to spray
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1255.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1258.JPG)
Then I took it back down and stowed it away. It was already 330 so it was too late to get all stressed out shooting gelcoat for the first time.
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That's some piñata! I hope your not having a block party anytime soon! lol. I look forward to seeing that shot. Its an awesome design. Classic Aquasport has been slow with progress as a web site which has left me starving. I am to blame myself as well for the lack of posts but im definitely looking forward to seeing your boat moving along.
Don't stress shooting the gel. Once you commit and pour in the hardener the clock starts ticking and its over before you know it. The 2 quarts or so that you will need to shoot the first coat of the console will be out of the gun before you resume normal breathing patterns.
Word of advice from a fellow novice gel coat sprayer... its okay if you don't cover everything 100% on the first shot. It is way easier to shoot a few more coats than it is to fix runs. go nice light even coats. You can shoot another coat in a hour or so but you cant sand a run for a day or so until it completely sets up. Paint pros correct me if im wrong but that's been my limited experience.
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I agree on the rebuild progress of the other rebuilds on the site - seems everyone is at a stand-still or waiting for cooler weather :scratch:
I think Aaron said he turned it over to a fiberglass guy at work.
As for shooting gel - I'm ready - gotta practice on something before I do the hull or inside. I found out the tip that came with the gun is 4.8mm :shock: No wonder it drips out when you point it down.
I bought one qt of unwaxed and one of waxed. Plus one qt of additive to stretch the qt of unwaxed I figured one qt would do the console for the first coat but I'm glad to get another set of eyes on it for a guesstimate.
I wanted to spray a coat on it and then see/fix any bad imperfections and then shoot a coat with additive for the second coat. What do you think Koz?
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The instructions for the gun said to spray a light coat and wait 2 mins and then start laying heavier coats with a 5 min delay between each. Sound about right?
Having the console hanging will make this so much easier than trying to rassle it around or having to do the inside one day and the outside another 8)
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Looking forward to the finished console, Rick! I'm also looking forward to learning more about spraying gel.
I apologize for not adding any updates on my rebuild. I've been chipping away at it, but not too much visible progress. Between the heat and all the rain we've had, well, you know.... I'll try to add an update to my thread later this week. In the meantime, it's good to see you and Steve making progress.
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4.8... mine came with a 6! No matter what by nature of the beast it will drip when you point it down. I cant dispute the instructions but I have a hard time with 2 minutes. I think what they mean is almost like a wetting coat to get the bond going, then a thicker coat 5 mins in. I would still consider many thinner coats than one thick coat. Personally I wouldnt go more than 2 inital passes. The gel is still "wet" and not kicked off so I think you would just be drowning the piece and asking for really really fun gel coat runs if you keep shooting coat after coat. I would think you would want the prior layer to kick and take a semi firm shape before you shoot again. I shot the first few molds a coat a day just to let the prior layer take hold except for the last doors which I shot an hour apart. I did experience some gel coat lift on those last doors but that was a mold. I dont think it would be an issue with a top coat like on your piece. Problem/point is with layers is the different kick times of each layer. Obviously if you shoot multi layers a few mins apart they are kicking mostly at the same time. Shooting every hour is spacing that out and that may be where I got into slight trouble with the molds in trying to keep them flat as they heated and set at different paces one on top of the other. A day apart... well now that layer is set and isnt going to move for anything leaving a good base for the next layer. Im a bit under experienced and out of my league but thats my gel coat observations so far through my own trial and error.
As for quantity... I think 2 quarts could do it but it doesnt leave you much room for error. Im glad you can stretch the 1st quart with the additive as 3 quarts should definitely do it. Its not like you can mix it up and pour back what you dont use. There is waste involved because is hard to gauge exactly how much you need. I cant judge too well as I am pouring out of a 5 gallon as using what I need mindlessly. As for the waxed, basically that is your very last coat. Think of sealing the project with wax. I bought a quart of wax additive this way I can buy unwaxed gel coat in quantitiy and wax it up when I need it. I bought a 5 gallon pail of it which basically is the same price as less than 4 gallons. Quart by quart is the most expensive way to go usually. Im actually glad to hear you have the 4.8. I think the 6 tip is a bit aggressive and drops alot of gel. Ive been thinking of getting a 5. Better to spray a little less for a little longer per pass then to drown it.
As for shooting layers and fixing as you go... thats perfect and one of the benefits of gel. Shoot it, let it set, sand out what you dont like, fill what you have to then shoot again. You can mix some gel with cabosil or west systems 407 to make a putty to fill in anything really out of whack. The more coats you shoot the more meat you have to sand and fair to an amazing finished piece. Its kind of why I thought to go a little thicker on the gel in my molds so I can sand away and make it look good. Again, not what a pro would say but I have to leave room for error as a novice. As my game improves im sure my technique will stream line. until then, no one will know or care what I did to make the piece look the way it does. Be careful with those ignition indents you have over the storage compartment. You are going to pass them with the gun too many times and drown them because you will find it hard to cover that small and deep of a crevice. I see that they may be pre coated which will help not make a mess there. Tell yourself now that you will get it all later on the next coat and keep the gun moving. How are you going to shoot the door? I would think you have to hang it open somehow in order to shoot the inside. If you shoot it closed, that gap is kind of small and I fear you may bridge the gel coat from the frame to the door. Other than that the piece should shoot real easy. The best part it thats its gel coat... you screw it up, you sand off the boo boo and shoot it again. No harm done and no one will know the difference. You cant do that with paint as easily
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A little after thought on filler. I love west systems 404. It is white so when mixed with gel you can basically fill holes and scratches, let set, sand and polish and done. But... it is a tough fiber and is hard to sand. They make 407 which is alot more easier to sand and is non structural, BUT it is reddish in color and will not work as a one step filler. Shame on me but ive never used anything else. Im sure there is a light weight, non structural filler for gel coat that is white and works great. Maybe its cabosil? Dont know. All I know is 404 works but i bet there is something lighter and easier out there.
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The tip is a #6 and on the instruction sheet it had (4.8mm) beside the #6.
The white battery switch holes will be taped off, I made those out of epoxy so I painted the insides of them with epoxy paint. I'll gel over the part of them inside the console to see if it sticks.
What I planned was to use the waxed first and spray half the qt inside and half outside. After it hardens I will wipe the gel down with acetone to remove the wax and then do any repairs. I think I have the majority of any flaws already taken care of but we'll see. The final coats will be the gel with the additive - I think it is private labelled Duratec.
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I would use the waxed last. The wax smears and doesn't simply dissolve with acetone. I fear that there will always be wax residue unless you sand it off. Think of the small dimples in some of the fiberglass overlays and what it would take to get the wax out of there. I was never comfortable of a strong bond working on a waxed surface unless I sanded down to raw gel, and even then I envisioned smeared wax dragging in my sandpaper to some extent. The unwaxed sets firm enough to sand in a day or two. If it doesn't, get PVA and spray or brush it on as a barrier for the final kick. PVA washes off completely with water. When I made repairs to my cast pieces I would coat the newly kicked repair gel coat sections in PVA. I'd brush a layer or two on and that was enough.
Gel coat won't stick to epoxy so mask that carefully.
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Last weekend I did shoot the console with 2 qts of gelcoat. The dump gun was a little tricky to use and especially to remember to end with it pointing to the sky so it didn't drip/run out. Forgot a couple times and ended up with some dribbles here and there. That gun is aptly named - it can definitely "dump" some gelcoat quickly :shock: I got a good coat on the console however my prep before this was not so great so it showed every imperfection and cloth print on the console and seat lid.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1262.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1263.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1264.JPG)
So then I started sanding the gelcoat down to a smooth condition and then filled all the imperfections with some bondo - took the remainder of last weekend and all of this weekend to get it really ready for the last coat with additive in it.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1265.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1266.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1267.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1268.JPG)
Next weekend I will build some sort of spray booth under the tree so I can keep the breeze down, it was pretty breezy here all weekend - plus the darn love bugs are here now too. :(
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That looks good Rick. Did you try the cheap spray paint method for highs and lows?
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Thanks.
Nope, the console is small enough that you can feel and see what is going on. I'll do that on the bottom though.
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They say that with paint, 90% of the effort is in the prep. With gel, 90% of the effort is after it is coated. Looks like you're getting your 90% after, and then some. Good luck and keep up the good work :thumright:
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Hope the last coat goes nice and smooth with the duratec additive. Bought another HVLP gun with 2.5mm tip as it is recommended so it should be a piece of cake, lay out/down nice and flat and self sands and buffs :lol: .
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Disassemble and reassemble the hvlp a few times so you are familiar with it. You will have to get it apart before the gel sets. You can buy some time by shooting acetone but it will need a full disassembly when your done. They shoot great but it's a pain to maintain and clean.
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Well.... I got some more progress made and then some progress removed :oops:
I built a quick red-neck spray booth in the front yard around my work area
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1269.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1270.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1271.JPG)
I added a slight amount of blue pigment to the gelcoat and then read the instructions for the duratec for the 5th time. It says you should mix 2% hardener and my gut was telling me "that it too hot for here in my neighborhood" and I compromised at 1.5%. As I said a few posts back, the instructions also say to fog the first coat (2 mils), which I did, wait 2 mins and then start laying it on a little heavier, which I also did.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1272.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1273.JPG)
Then disaster struck - the little bit of gel I had left in the gun kicked :cry: And I hadn't taken Steve's advice to heart and had only practiced pulling the needle and flushing acetone through it.
Well doing that did not clean the gun so I had to learn how to take it apart while under pressure to beat the gelcoat super hardening inside the $50 gun.
A friend stopped by about that time and said the same thing happened to his boss and he said I'll show you how to take it apart and we did. And I scraped all the gelcoat out of the gun and it was now working perfectly again :D
Unfortunately I had run out time and materials so it would have to wait 'til this weekend.
It was really windy yesterday (and today too in spurts) so yesterday I started on the cabinets for the back corners of the liner where they meet the transom and where the cables and such will come out from under the sole. I made one for both sides. I need to find a smallish premade plastic door, like the one I have on the Explorer, so I can open the cabinet to reach in and pull all the cables out. And then before I install it I'll cut a 3" hole in it and figure out how to split the door across horizontally to be able to seal up the access hole for the all the cabling when it exits the cabinet. I'll use one of the rubber boot things that you usually see used in this application.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1275.JPG)
Today I got up and re-erected the spray booth and right after that the wind picked up. Inside the booth it was nice though. I hung the console and set the seat up and then went to mix the gelcoat and additive. This time I used 1% and I fogged, and then got another coat on both and then one more on the console before the gun ran out of materials (and it didn't kick in the gun :cheers: ) Just to be safe I went into the shop, disassembled the gun and cleaned it all out (nothing was in it) and was done and reassembled within 5 mins.
I went back out to the booth to take a peek before I mixed my next quart of materials.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1276.JPG)
Dog gone love bugs had invaded the booth :x
As you can see the material laid out nicely and has some shine - just has some winged adornments in some areas now.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1277.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1279.JPG)
More of the winged nosey visitors
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1280.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1281.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1283.JPG)
So that ended the day - was going to be all done with spraying, now I have one more day. I need to hit the whole console and seat with 400 now and hopefully next weekend I can spray it before the bugs come out, which seems to be around 11A.
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Good job, Rick. When I saw your makeshift paint booth, my immediate thought was love bugs. I imagine it would have been worse if you didn't have it.
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Thanks Craig. I'm thinking that I can put a shop fan inside the booth and after spraying, turn it on and aim it at the entry area. Hopefully that will help.
I'm thinking I only have about 5-7mm on it now, so I need a few more coats.
I'm wondering if they are attracted to the smell of Styrene?
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I think they're attracted to anyplace you don't want them :x
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I'm wondering if they are attracted to the smell of Styrene?
the smell of frustration... the more you get frustrated at them the more they show up... they swarm us on the forklifts which gets old/annoying very very fast... i noticed they dont like to be inside the high and dry building though...
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I remember reading long ago that they are attracted to something that is in the exhaust of vehicles and that is why they hang around freeways and heavily traveled roads.
Aaron - maybe they're attracted to the exhaust of the forklift? (unless it's electric)
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I remember reading long ago that they are attracted to something that is in the exhaust of vehicles and that is why they hang around freeways and heavily traveled roads.
Formaldehyde.
Light colored surfaces reflect the sun's ultraviolet rays in color that looks like fruit they consume.
Fresh paint (apparently gel coat too) must give off the same/similar odor as formaldehyde or is actually releasing it as it cures.
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I remember reading long ago that they are attracted to something that is in the exhaust of vehicles and that is why they hang around freeways and heavily traveled roads.
Formaldehyde.
Light colored surfaces reflect the sun's ultraviolet rays in color that looks like fruit they consume.
Fresh paint (apparently gel coat too) must give off the same/similar odor as formaldehyde or is actually releasing it as it cures.
Good thinking there CB.
I've had Lady Bugs land on me several times over the course of many years. Maybe Grecian Formula smells like paint? :scratch:
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No Scott, I think it would be the Metamucil that they're smelling :shock: along with the Formaldehyde you drink :mrgreen:
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So how many gals of Resin/Epoxy have you used on this project so far? How much fiberglass weight and materials have you used? Just was wondering as to total weight added to the original hull weight. How much weight do you think you added with all the materials?
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Materials: I have used a 5gal bucket of poly and probably 10-14 gals of epoxy. I've been through about a 100 lbs of 1708, about 10 yds of 1808, about 10 yards 1.5 oz csm and approx 10 yards of 3/4 oz csm.
As far as added weight I would guess none. Sole is composite, was wood. I added a seating/storage area to the front of the console where I used to have a cooler all the time - net is probably a little gain depending on how many beers, err refereshments I had in the cooler :drunken: . The old tank was 25ish gals, aluminum - now it's 27 gals poly. Casting deck is pretty much the same even though I cut another hatch out of the front of it and replaced with a poly hatch backed by composite. Net - maybe a pound or so loss or about equal?
When I add the 2 trolling motor batteries i would say that will add another 100lbs but that is about all. The trolling motor is probably 30 lbs? I had a smaller one on the back - so a little gain there. Maybe the added stereo stuff - not much gain. Old original helm seat will be replaced with a custom seat by Randy - probably not much gain there, the old seat bottom had a little weight to it. A smaller cooler will slide under it. :drunken:
It's just been reconfigured and brought up to 21st century standards and materials with a little better workmanship than original.
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I've made a little progress since the invasion of the Lovebugs - just not on the console.
I finished both cabinets for the back corners of the boat to close in the rigging tubes yet give me access to the tubes. I will cut doors like you see drawn on the cabinet. Making the doors now out of 6 plys of 1708. I also made a mold of the transom top and made a cap for the transom. you can see it setting on the transom top in the following pics.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1287.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1288.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1289.JPG)
As part of the transom cap I am also going to place a few layers of cloth and CSM on the inside face of the transom - the transom was lam'd with epoxy and I need to be able to gelcoat it so I need to cover it with a "liner" of sorts, made from poly.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1286.JPG)
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oooooooo.. i like! great idea to run the rigging in there
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Thanks but we'll see how it works out. Should be fine. (Where is the fingers crossed emoticon)
You need to learn how to do "the stare". "The stare" involves grabbing a few beers (or your choice of beverage although beer allows you to still think) and stand at your preferred position where you can stare at the boat and think things through. A couple hours is the norm - you have to think this stuff through - not any work gets done except in your mind, working all the details out. Sometimes it is a good session, sometimes it is confusing and requires another session.
I know I have had a few sessions like this - the wife doesn't get it but the results speak for themselves. Sometimes you rethink the rethink that you did prior - my redesign of the console is an example.
For your rebuild you need to think through how you want to route the rigging. I sent an email to the TH marine guys about the routing of rigging vertically through their combo (the one suggested in your thread) and whether it would allow water into the bilge if inundated with water like we get a "gully washer" here in FL (3-5" of rain per hour) - they started to answer but have stopped responding. IMO the sole of the 170 should be sealed so no water can get anywhere except out the scuppers. The new engines weigh more that these boats were designed for - sure the HP ratings allow it but the scuppers sink below the waterline.
The corners seem to be the best solution IMHO as you can see some pros doing the same thing (although they usually have the full transom and cover that with a 10 or 12" cabinet).
Go back a few pages and see the PVC contraptions I came up with to get the possibility of the rigging through to the corners. Remember that shifting cables are your biggest problem - they require a slight transition or they aren't getting through.
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i had 7 months of that, but until recently i didnt know what i was looking at hahaha.
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You are doing a fantastic rebuild Rick! I'm very impressed!
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i had 7 months of that, but until recently i didnt know what i was looking at hahaha.
I would agree that 7 months is a tad too much time :lol:
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You are doing a fantastic rebuild Rick! I'm very impressed!
Thanks Lars - I too did the transom - but not poured. :wink:
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i will have to come check out your build one day. im about an hr north
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Any time man. Let me know when you're thinking about it and I'll PM you my address/phone number.
If you time it right I can teach you how to "fair" :mrgreen:
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Any time man. Let me know when you're thinking about it and I'll PM you my address/phone number.
If you time it right I can teach you how to "fair" :mrgreen:
That never seems to line up for me :scratch:
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Which part Chris - the meeting up or the fairing :mrgreen:
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The "work" part hehhhh
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You are doing a fantastic rebuild Rick! I'm very impressed!
Thanks Lars - I too did the transom - but not poured. :wink:
Hello Rick,
Are you able to work year round on your project? We have very warm for the season here right now, but these days will soon be replaced by cold ones...
I hope to cut the floor out before we go to NC next Thursday on vacation. That way the boat can sit and dry while we are gone. Any project (fiber glass work) has to be very well planned and the tent warmed up for it to work. The Seacast was shipped from Denmark today. I hope to pour the transom before Christmas.
//Lars
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Hi Lars,
While it does get cold here in the winter (I remember standing at the bus stop as a kid and seeing 19 degrees (F) on the bank sign), we warm up rapidly and by 10a or so you can go back to work with shorts and a light jacket. ;-) Right now is our autumn start and it's very nice.
The last two weekends I've either been getting my 230 ready to camp or camping on her. We had a great time and I surely needed that break.
Now it's time to get back on the little boat. I am almost out of things to hold me back from sticking everything back down in the inside. I still need to pull the liner back out and glass a few things in and then when I flip it back in, it'll be tabbing time.
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Hi Lars,
While it does get cold here in the winter (I remember standing at the bus stop as a kid and seeing 19 degrees (F) on the bank sign), we warm up rapidly and by 10a or so you can go back to work with shorts and a light jacket. ;-) Right now is our autumn start and it's very nice.
The last two weekends I've either been getting my 230 ready to camp or camping on her. We had a great time and I surely needed that break.
Now it's time to get back on the little boat. I am almost out of things to hold me back from sticking everything back down in the inside. I still need to pull the liner back out and glass a few things in and then when I flip it back in, it'll be tabbing time.
That type of winter climate, I could get used to... My mom's aunt lives in Naples Florida. I have visited her twice. One time in February, it was fantastic weather.
It's fun to follow your build progress. I'm still cutting and making my way through wet foam. I hope to finish cutting the floor out tonight. At least the rough cut.
What type of glue to you plan to use when you attach the deck to the hull? Epoxy?
Great work Rick! And great work with this Aquasport.com and the forum!
//Lars
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Hi Lars,
Because I am gelcoating the boat's interior (and bottom) I must use polyester resin since gelcoat is polyester. So I will tab everything in with poly and some cloth. I have made a "liner" for the inside of the transom out of a few layers of poly and cloth and I might stick it to the transom with epoxy. The side toward the inside of the boat will be poly so I can gelcoat it.
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OK, Someone told me you can gelcoat over Epoxy, but I'm with you. I would not try it.
I removed my tub tonight. My arms are hurting. Will remove all foam on Saturday.
I have warm weather on Sunday. I would love to pour the transom on Sunday, but I don't think I will be ready.
Your boat is coming along fine. When do you plan to re-launch her?
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OK, Someone told me you can gelcoat over Epoxy, but I'm with you. I would not try it.
Epoxy is usually covered in paint.
Your boat is coming along fine. When do you plan to re-launch her?
No clue - I'll know better by the end of December after all my vacation time is spent on it.
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Play time is over and it's time to get back to work. I left off working on the cabinets so that is where I'll pick it back up.
I cut out the center in the cabinet.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1310.JPG)
I cut out the frame and doors from the slab.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1311.JPG)
Cut the door back enough for the hinge.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1312.JPG)
I needed to add another thinner layer to compensate for the gasket and then glued it all together.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1313.JPG)
Cleaned up the inside edge to the final depth and glued down the frame with 5min epoxy.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1314.JPG)
Put the seal on to test fit
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1315.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1316.JPG)
Laid the door back in and the height is just what I needed
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1317.JPG)
Dry fit the door and hinge.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1318.JPG)
The doors and the cabinet have backers glued on for the hinges to screw into. The doors will be held closed with 3 swivel locks each that I also made today.
I have to cut a hole in the doors for the rigging to exit and also cut the doors in half across the door, through the middle of the holes to allow the rigging to be pulled but not have to be pulled through the hole. I will be able to open the top part of the door while the bottom portion is still closed. I will install the boots that are usually used to protect the holes. Have to order those before I cut the holes to be sure of the size.
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Looks great Rick!
Thanks for your advice earlier. I will make room for an built in gas tank.
I found a foam supplier just 35 minutes drive from here. I will call them tomorrow.
//Lars
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Thanks Lars.
Make sure it is closed cell and you should probably be ok with 2 lb density. If you are not going to use the outboard sides of the main stringers you might think about foaming that too - that will give the boat some of the buoyancy that you removed. I did not foam mine outboard of the stringers only because I am not sure if I am going to use some of that area. I know exactly where each bulkhead is in case I want to foam it later.
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Hello Rick. I think I will foam the outside while I'm at it. I have found a company that can sell me closed cell foam.
I will let out dry out totally before I do it. I will translate the density of the foam to metric and make sure it's within your recommendation. Sitting at the airport in Stockholm. Waiting to board the flight to Chicago. :)
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Dry fitting the cabinets - Starboard side:
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1319.JPG)
I'll trim off the excess liner in the back when I take the liner out soon but you get the idea of the form and function.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1320.JPG)
Port side:
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1321.JPG)
I then glued the "liner" I made for the front of the transom to the transom capping I made a few weeks ago.
Then it was time to glass it all together
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1322.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1323.JPG)
I think I've found a new avatar :mrgreen:
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1324.JPG)
I let everything harden and then took it out of the boat
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1325.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1326.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1327.JPG)
I put it back into the boat and called it a day - another step forward.
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Hey I like that. Good form and function! The ransom liner threw me off when you took it out. Cool idea.
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Looking great, Rick. I gotta admit I wasn't sure where they were going to go when I saw your previous pics, but it is coming together nicely :salut:
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Thanks guys, I need to remember to pre-drill the hinge holes for the doors before I glue this big piece to the liner and sole otherwise it will be a little challenging to do so.
I need to lam some 24oz woven to the front of the transom liner to beef it up and then I'll lam some 6oz veil cloth over that to smooth it out. I'll get that tomorrow and lam it on Tuesday.
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Looks awesome. Great Ingenuity
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Are you going to trim the existing cap liner to match the new side panel opening?
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Are you going to trim the existing cap liner to match the new side panel opening?
Kinda, I'm going to trim them a little longer than the front edge of the cabinets.
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Great design and craftsman ship Rick. Hopefully I'm driving to the cost here in NC on Wednesday. I hope to see some Aquasport boats.
Lars
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Yikes! Great job. I have some of the same photos, but I'm not this far down the path. I salute you.
chris m
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Thanks Chris - start your rebuild thread and show us what you've done so far.
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Rick have you used that cool vacuum pump yet on the project?
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Rick have you used that cool vacuum pump yet on the project?
http://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=10101.550
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So I gather Schwartzbier is not good for reading comprehension..... Maybe the Doc said riddeli, I don't remember.... :roll: :mrgreen:
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I don't remember....
Hell, that was almost a year ago. I doubt most readers even remember he bought a pump, much less he used it. :scratch:
And who said booze was bad for the brain? :drunken:
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What pump :?: Did I buy a pump :scratch:
:mrgreen:
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If the Admiral sees this, aaahhhhh,,, NO, My sincerest apologies, MUST have been someone else's!!! :oops: (Juz tryin to help a brother out!!)
Was in the barn tripping over two pumps that followed me home from the dump, yes that is my story and I am sticking to it! :x :roll: that are/were destined to become vacuum pumps, and that made me think of the one that someone MIGHT :shock: have posted... Just wonderin how it worked out...
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It seemed to work fine but I was, and still am, a neophyte at using it. It worked good on the fuel tank cover but when I tried to tackle the sole bagging whooped me - too many leaks. I will be using it on woodworking after the boat is done in 201.... :mrgreen:
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I will be using it on woodworking after the boat is done in 201.... :mrgreen:
Well, at least that is a "1" and not a "2".
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I will be using it on woodworking after the boat is done in 201.... :mrgreen:
Well, at least that is a "1" and not a "2".
Or when the local supply house runs out of glass and resin :shock:
:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
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Well, we decided it was time to adopt a rescue puppy to fill the void that my wife perceived as being here. Anyway, life has taken away my vacation where I planned to knock out a huge chunk of the remaining part of my rebuild and turned it into puppy sitting :roll: She's a nice little lab mix puppy with a tazmanean side that has my arms looking like a pincushion. She'll grow out of it I hope.
I have still been plodding along when I had a few minutes, on the rebuild. I spent a lot of time fairing the transom liner and it is almost done. Some pinholes still prevail.
I needed to get the shelf made for inside the front of the liner and installed before I roll the liner back into the boat. It was quite a challenge since I have fuel and vent lines and also a wire chase tube all coming through the shelf. It took some cardboard and an hour to make a template of the area where it'll fit - lots of angles in there to add to the complexity. I made the shelf from Plascore. Here is a pic where I tacked it in place with 5min epoxy and some 1708 strips.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1328.JPG)
I needed access below the shelf so I cut a 6" pie into the shelf.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1329.JPG)
This pie will allow me access to the front eye - I will epoxy the pie to the shelf when I install it permanently.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1330.JPG)
I tabbed it in with 1708 and epoxy - closing any voids around the plumbing.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1332.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1333.JPG)
I still have 2 weeks left to try and get some work done on the boat. Next is to roll the liner back into the boat and tab it all in.
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Before the liner goes in Rick are you going to dry fit the bow eye to figure out how many different ways to drop the wrench there will be? When done, it looks like there will be hardly any room to swing one and more then one spot to lose it :shock: :oops: ..
Nice progress too!
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This kind of tight, no access, can't get a wrench on it is why for Christmas I am getting one of these.
http://www.craftsman.com/craftsman-3-8- ... ockType=G1 (http://www.craftsman.com/craftsman-3-8-inch-drive-mach-series-ratchet/p-00944578000P?prdNo=1&blockNo=1&blockType=G1)
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Before the liner goes in Rick are you going to dry fit the bow eye to figure out how many different ways to drop the wrench there will be? When done, it looks like there will be hardly any room to swing one and more then one spot to lose it :shock: :oops: ..
Nice progress too!
LOL, how true. Anyway, I plan to mount the the eye prior to dropping in the liner and then after I flip it will loosen it up from the out side a bit (I bought an extra long eye for the front) to work around. The new hatch I made in the casting deck will also allow me to get to the eye (or retrieve a wrench :wink: ). I will hang some webbing from the underside around the hatch to put stuff in.
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Nice work Rick!
Congratulations to the puppy. I know the feeling. We have two cats. The second cat also filled a void I was not aware of... ;)
But on the other hand, the boat fills a void too...
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Looking good! Where will the fill n vent go?
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Thanks Lars and Chris. The fill and vent combo will be just aft of where the hoses are, on the outside "flat" of the gunnel, so it'll curve nicely into the combo. I have an anti-burp device to add to the vent too.
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Looking good Rick. I am at the beginning of a 2 week vacation, during which I had planned to at least get the bottom paint off my boat. Unfortunately the boss had different plans...I am now learning how to install a paver patio :roll: .
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Craig you have my condolences!!
Lew that wench is a take off on the old Yankee screw driver and will look good under the tree! Lucky!!!
Good deal on the webbing Rick, it would be a total pisser to listen the a socket rattling in that nice clean bildge.. :oops:
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Looking good Rick. I am at the beginning of a 2 week vacation, during which I had planned to at least get the bottom paint off my boat. Unfortunately the boss had different plans...I am now learning how to install a paver patio :roll: .
As I was reading this I was thinking "don't tell me you got a puppy too" :lol:
Hopefully it's a small patio and it'll leave some time to work on the boat :salut:
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Good deal on the webbing Rick, it would be a total pisser to listen the a socket rattling in that nice clean bildge.. :oops:
I am somewhat tempted to put a 1/2" mesh "something" across the front of the big section of 3" PVC (split in half) where it goes through the fuel tank coffin, at the front. That way if something did get down in there I could grab it easier than without it. Just have to find something that would work.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0720.JPG)
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Sounds like a job for a few layers of scrap glass with appropriate sized holes drilled for a custom fit.. It ain't like you've got spare cloth layin around.. :scratch: :mrgreen:
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That's a good idea Dave. :salut:
I have plenty of scraps around already lam'd up.
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Here is another pic (of the back) of the pipe as it comes through - so I will be at the front. So I would put some kind of screening, be it home made or other, over the hole without impeding the flow.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0950.JPG)
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My .02. I would not put anything across that half pipe. If you do have a screen there it will only collect small pieces of crap over time especially at the bottom against the hull and make water stand. I would rather have the option of sticking a pressure washer wand up in there and blasting it clean every now and then.
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If you went with screen you could go with some of that UV resist nylon porch screen they sell at Slowe's or HD.....monel staple it.
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Got a little free time yesterday - coated the area with Ebond epoxy paint.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1341.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1342.JPG)
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I agree with Lewis, no screen.
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I don't think I would use a screen, maybe a "grate" of sorts. Just to keep large items out of the pipe, like someone's wallet or watch, etc.
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So I took the BIG step to drill the holes for the jack plate in the transom. We talked previously here about how to drill the holes and I could not find "deep" hole saws. While still at the big box store, I talked to the fella responsible for the tool area, explaining that I needed to drill 1" holes in my transom through about 3/8" of fiberglass and 2" of wood/glass combo. He said he had best luck (seems like he had electrical exp) with the bit shown below - Bosch 1" auger bit. I bought that bit and since I needed to keep the angle of the drill parallel to the transom I needed to create a guide block to use for this new big bit to keep it perpendicular to the transom.
I have a harbor freight 1/2" hammer drill and put this massive auger bit in it. I then tried to drill a hole in the "guide block" (a piece of real 2"x4" that CircleHooked gave me) using this drill and no way, never even started to cut in before it stalled. I had used this same drill to drill 4 x 3/4" holes with a spade bit for the corner lifting eyes. Maybe those holes did the drill in?
So I started researching for the "baddest, most torquey, user friendly "drill" with a normal chuck (not rotary SDS type) and of course I got a huge list of which 95% were less than what I needed. So I narrowed it down to a few and went with the 10A Dewalt 1/2" drill (not hammer- drill).
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1349.JPG)
And the bit - a badass bit that pulls itself into the "target". I found that if I could pull backwards somewhat, it may help (not easy). The bit is super aggressive and if there is something for it to grab onto, the bit is going to be moving forward - so drill a little and then back it out (For a 2" wood transom, if you don't do this the bit will be all the way through in 15-20 secs, even if you can hold on).
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1350.JPG)
Notice the threaded nose on the bit.
So I used the new "guide" from the aft side of the transom (clamped to the transom), carefully inserted the drill bit and was somehow able to control the beast and drill out until the very back side of the front layer of glass. The "screw" of the bit came through the front side of the transom - this also left a "vent" for the next step.
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I somehow controlled and drilled the four holes so that the threaded end of the bit ONLY went through the front side of fiberglass (the inboard side of the transom). You can see the penetration through the inboard fiberglass
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1347.JPG)
To fill the oversized holes (the motor mount) I mixed thickened epoxy with chopped fibers and cabosil and stuffed it into the holes until the "putty" pushed though the inboard holes.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1351.JPG)
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You can call that bit Burtus... :mrgreen:
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:thumleft:
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Sweet :thumright:
Been thinking about that grate up in the bow. You know these plastic milk crates you see outside the convenience stores? I've cut the bottoms out of those, and used the bottoms to set things on inside hatches. They are strong too.
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The new puppy let me get a little work done on the boat yesterday :icon_cheers:
I put the burp valve on the vent line and put some cloth across the guide pipes that the vent and fill lines go through. Now everything under the deck should be very secure.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1360.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1359.JPG)
Wire chase from the console to the front (for the trolling motor and lights wiring)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1361.JPG)
I vacuumed everything up in the boat.
I treated a couple friends to a nice breakfast at Bob Evans and then they helped me roll the liner back into the boat. I then screwed the cap back onto the hull.
I slid the casting deck back into place to see how the build up of the hole came out. Before:
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG1215.JPG)
After: (you can see the burp valve on the vent line in the bow storage area)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1356.JPG)
A closer look of the new shelf up there without the pie installed. If you guys reach inside this area on your boats (that have a liner like this one) and reach far left and right you'll feel a big gap where if someone was to put anything up there it could work it's way over to the side and slide down into the hull. Several of us have found weird things in the hull when we removed the sole and I think that is how the stuff gets into the hull.
The piece of material you see here (I need to trim it down now that I see how it fits) is one piece of the filler and it goes side to side. I still need to figure out something to close the big gap at the very sides to prevent anything from getting down in the hull. Any ideas?
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1357.JPG)
A look down into the front hatch I cut into the casting deck. I will install some netting or mesh so that I can store pfd's and stuff in this hatch.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1358.JPG)
Today I hope to tab the sides of the liner into the sole.
Getting closer 8)
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Good to see progress, I look forward to the maiden voyage. Do you have a target date yet?
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I agree Nando. The target date will hopefully be "this year".
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That give 361 days ;D
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Your build is world class Rick. The finish of your hull, stringers, duct work etc are almost too pretty to cover up!
I can't wait to see your boat finished.
//Lars
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Thanks Lars - not sure if I'd call any of it "world class" but it is coming along, slower than I'd have hoped but coming along nonetheless.
Nando, I can't plan how many days I have 'til launch, only how many weekends I have to work on it (have to go back to work now).
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I think you are doing a fantastic job on it. I wish I had a heated shop to spend the entire winter in... I have to be efficient and do what I can for the remainder of this week.
The guy owning the shop is a very nice guy (as you have probably figured out). He told me he needs the area next week, meaning I'm taking the boat home no later than Sunday.
Your engineering or re engineering of your boat is impressive!
Keep up the good work Rick!
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I want to ask for some member search help for a 3' x 6' or 4' x 6' cargo mesh netting that I can attach to the bottom side of this hatch opening.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1358.JPG)
I'd really like to find something that is 1/2" mesh or less but still stretchy. The opening is like 30 x18 and I figure I can "gather" up the excess to form a droopy bag of sorts. I will store my PFDs and hope to have excess for jackets and other soft stuff. If the mesh is small enough it will prevent keys and such from falling into the bilge.
The opening has a trough around the interior (you can see the "lip" around the inside) to route water to a drain so it hopefully will be dry storage.
I've been looking but I haven't found the magic search words yet.
Thanks all.
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Sounds like you want a section of twine or a trap head.. Memphis Net and Twine might be a start... 30 x 18 opening, how deep and what sized mesh?
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I'll measure today but it's like I need a dip net type of netting with real small mesh
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It measures 36W x 16T (modified triangle)and the deepest part is 19" with less toward the bow. Just like a dip net.
So I have been searching high and low but still need the help from people with a different purpose for the netting/webbing they source. The smallest web the better. If I could find 1/4" webbing and still be stretchy that's what I'm after.
So if you're out there surfing and stumble onto anything plz let me know.
Thx.
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That sounds like a piece of Herring seine.. It used to be possable to order a patch like that from MN&T and down your way Rick there has to be a net loft to save on shipping.
You are really looking for a piece that is about 78x54ish" that will get a good sized darn in the corners and then sewn back together?
On the other hand, you can knit one easily in all your spare time, needles and mesh guides can be made with scrap wood and #7 twine is cheap. A good guide is a book called Fisheman's Knots and Nets, it was available online from The Wooden Boat Store.
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I will keep the internet search going but a replacement heavy duty dip net might be the ticket. Would have to be a big dip net though. Have to find one before I tab in the casting deck. I may attach a bunch of "camelbacks" around the rim so I am at least ready.
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I ditz'd around yesterday on the hatches to route the groove into the back of the hatch for the seal. This actually took quite a few hours to get it right.
Added the rubber seal
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1362.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=11159&title=cimg1362&cat=646)
Routed out the back of the small hatch - I guess I'll fill in the bottom of the honeycomb with some thickened resin.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1363.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=11160&title=cimg1363&cat=646)
The fit is pretty good and flush
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1364.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=11161&title=cimg1364&cat=646)
The new hatch in the casting deck (glad the deck is not tabbed in yet so I could work on the hatch outside the boat) - added the seal
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1365.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=11162&title=cimg1365&cat=646)
I still haven't got this groove quite right - it's not easy to see where the mismatch is. I haven't figured out the right material to coat the seal with so when I press fit it, there is a mark transferred to the hatch. Started running out of light and called it a day. I'm close but not right yet.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1366.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=11163&title=cimg1366&cat=646)
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Rick, I was cleaning out the garage the other day and came across a new roll of fiberglass porch screen.
Won't corrode.
Or mildew.
Should be perfect for this, jmho.
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Rick lightly dust the lid seal with some chalk line dust. the dust will show where the lid is touching the gasket and where you need to sand and fit more.
Oh by the way your rebuild is looking really good. I got a little lost with all the changes to the website and found it kind of hard to navigate in the beginning. It's getting a little easier.
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Thanks Fishon. I think I am beyond the dust part now - would have worked originally I bet. Now I'm thinking I need some lipstick on the seal to see the transfer.
Glad you're finding the site easier to navigate. We tried to make it as logical as possible - before, everything seemed to end up in two forums, now just look for the area of interest and you'll likely find your answer there - i.e., "I need to plumb my bilge pump" questions you'll find in the plumbing forum.
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I did the lipstick on the seal thing and it helped. I routed out the offending grooves some more and it was a nice fit on both hatch covers.
This weekend I figured I could "cover" the honeycomb on the small hatch and cover the exposed jasper board with just one layer of 3/4oz mat. I did this with epoxy and it was pretty chilly for that stuff - was in the high 50s/low 60s.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1369.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1368.JPG)
Here is the result before cleaning it up.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1379.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1380.JPG)
The end result was that the big hatch fit fine with the added layer (the reason I had to trim back the glass was so it set flush laying on the receiver), the little hatch did not :huh02:
Seems that it was tight enough without the added glass so I had to cut it all back out. :021: Then I filled the honeycomb level with the top of the honeycomb (bottom of cut) with epoxy - it might be hard tomorrow.
I also planned out and marked the scupper hole(s) locations and bought another hole saw for those.
Next weekend I should be able to tab in the liner and possibly glue and glass in the transom liner (if I don't have to puppy sit :rolleyes: ).
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Heatlamps or putting the resin bottle on one of my aluminum boats is usually what i do in the morning. Along with trying to work in the sun. I look at resin temps with a lil infrared temp gun too. Working under a cover should keep nighttime condensation off too...
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I thought about putting it out in the sun after it mixed up like thick syrup. Seems the hardener was the thick stuff. Changed to FCGI resin.
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I was able to tab in the liner today - a fillet and 2 layers of 1208
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1381.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1382.JPG)
After I routed the groove in the back of the hatch I realized it went through or at least enough to see right through the honeycomb top to bottom. So a little creative taping and I mixed up some thickened epoxy and packed it in and filled up the gap and also a little of the holes I had drilled/ground for the lid handles. Then I spent a couple hours with a dremel carving it just right - much better then I had done the first time and it's all epoxy, where it had been poly before.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1383.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1384.JPG)
Next weekend I'll drill the scupper holes and then glue and tab in the transom liner and cabinets. My custom "net" for the front hatch is ready and will ship on Monday. If I get that this week I can install the net and then tab in the casting deck too 8)
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For the drains through the transom I was going to install a 1" ID piece of PVC and bed it in epoxy to seal the wood in the transom. I am using 1" ID because it is the standard plug size. I have a question about scupper covers for the aft side of the transom - seems like most are all 2+". Is that normal to have a smaller drain going through the scupper flap? I can see where the flap would seal off the 1" drain coming through, if it's a 2" flap.
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I'll guess.
It gives more surface area for the rubber flap to seal against adjacent to the 1" opening. :ScrChin:
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I agree with CB. Is the flap just to keep water out from wave action or when launching it? Or will your scuppers be underwater occasionally? Just wondering how effective these would be compared to scupper balls....
Lookin good btw :thumleft:
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Because of its reduced length, I feel the flap is a cleaner look but it comes with a price.
The rubber degrades over time becoming brittle and worn. Even when new, the sealing quality can be easily compromised by small pieces of debris like leaves, fish parts and an errant chunk of "extra crispy" lost while snackin'. I'm not sure how well the ball type handles these things but it seems a number of members have switched over.
It's food for thought, literally. :think1:
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I am hoping I raised the deck enough so that this is a moot point.
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We put these in a boat last year, they seem to work well...http://www.thmarine.com/products/Aeration-and-Plumbing/Drain-Fittings/Scupper-Drains/Recessed-Flapper-Scupper-Drains
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That is similar to what I plan to put in mine. I figure I can add the ping pong ball version over that if needed. But like Rick, I'm hoping the deck height makes this a non-issue.
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We put these in a boat last year, they seem to work well...http://www.thmarine.com/products/Aeration-and-Plumbing/Drain-Fittings/Scupper-Drains/Recessed-Flapper-Scupper-Drains
I think that type might be for someone that has a full transom and two drain holes? Aaron don't you have a drain hole in the front of your transom enclosure and then it is plumbed to something like this?
Mine is still an open transom so I couldn't use this type. The PVC will accomplish what I need on the inside.
I'm thinking something like this http://www.ebay.com/bhp/boat-scupper
or this http://www.thmarine.com/products/Aeration-and-Plumbing/Drain-Fittings/Scupper-Drains/Flush-Mount-Scupper-Valve-Assembly
The chrome ones you have Aaron look nice if they are just covers like the ones above.
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U are right....didnt even consider the differences in the transoms...mine has the cockpit drains plumbed to the scuppers...
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Yesterday I glued in the transom liner - thickened epoxy troweled onto the inside of the transom and then some poly based bonding putty on the top of the transom where the aft side of the transom intersects. I built some smaller clamps and clamped the liner to the transom.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1385.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1386.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1387.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1388.JPG)
Did the grinding along the liner. Ready for fairing.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1389.JPG)
Went out this morning and cleaned it all up and ground where needed. I also cut the 1208 cloth to tab everything together. I ran out of cabosil so tomorrow I'll run out and get some more so I can make the fillets and then tie it all together.
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:thumleft:
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Getting there, Rick! Looking good :sign0098:
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Looking great Rick!
:thumleft:
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Thanks guys, piece by piece it's becoming a boat again :93:
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Another check on the list :woohoo:
A fillet and two layers of 1208.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1390.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1391.JPG)
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Lookin good!!!!!
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Very nice looking work :thumright:
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Thanks guys.
A little more progress - ground down the lam on the transom and cabinets - ready for fairing
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1395.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1396.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1397.JPG)
The custom size net I ordered came in so I mounted it. Before:
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1392.JPG)
I bought some 1/4" aluminum rod from Home Depot and some cushioned clamps
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1393.JPG)
And here it is in the place it'll be used. I will put only soft stuff in there - life preservers, towels, etc. I dropped a screw and it did not go through the 1/16" mesh :thumright:
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1394.JPG)
I didn't like the holes that I drilled for the front eye so I over-drilled and filled with thickened epoxy. Today I made a jig and drilled 1/2" holes that were much straighter than the last ones plus the holes are encapsulated in epoxy.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1398.JPG)
I left some thread so I can clean up the epoxy that I made a mess with :oops: as I get the sides and bottom ready
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1399.JPG)
I got down in the front bilge and ground anything that would snag the net and then used up the last of the epoxy paint I have. Will have to order some more
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1400.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1401.JPG)
I ended the weekend with drilling the scupper holes and then mixed up some slightly thickened epoxy and sealed the holes, wiped some on the roughed up PVC and then bedded them in the holes.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1402.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1403.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1404.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1405.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1406.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1407.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1408.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1409.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1410.JPG)
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Sweet Rick! Moving along nicely now!
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Thanks Craig - she's almost a boat again. :cool1:
I will glass in the casting deck next weekend and then I'm into figuring out how to flip her. I have some ideas using the gantries I have - it'll be interesting for sure.
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Lookin like a boat now!
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Great work Rick!
I like your net bag for storing towels etc. Cool idea!
//Lars
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I like your net bag for storing towels etc. Cool idea!
Could be just the thing when the shrimp run. :think1:
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and then I'm into figuring out how to flip her. I have some ideas using the gantries I have - it'll be interesting for sure.
Have you checked out any local boat builders or marinas? I was trying to figure out the best way to flip mine while minimizing the risk of damaging it, when I saw an upside 22-2 at the place I was getting my supplies (Young Boats). They used a rotisserie system consisting of a bracket bolted to the transom and a strap connected to the bow eye. It took them less than a half hour to flip my boat and charged me $50. Worth it in my opinion, even if it costs a bit more.
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I agree - seems to be less stress on me that way. Did you have to have the engine mount holes in the transom already for them to flip it?
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I agree - seems to be less stress on me that way. Did you have to have the engine mount holes in the transom already for them to flip it?
Yes. I made a template from the dimensions I got from Scott Porta (I'll be using a porta bracket), and drilled the holes for the upper part of the bracket. The shop had to do minor reaming of the holes - took maybe 2 minutes. The key is to have everything setup and ready to go. I had supports already strapped to the inside of the hull, so all they needed to do was lift the hull, flip it over, and set it back down on the trailer. They helped me strap it to the trailer, and were literally done within 30 minutes. I'll see if I have any pictures of the supports....
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"got 'er done" :dancing:
Glued the bottom of the original storage compartment to the sole with thickened epoxy I troweled on. Added some weight and let it sit for a few hours.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1411.JPG)
I then mixed up some thickened resin, layed a fillet all the way around, let it kick a bit and then lam'd 2 x 1208 everywhere
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1412.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1413.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1414.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1415.JPG)
Everything lam'd back together finally - just a little different configuration from 2 years ago :coolth:
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1416.JPG)
:weehee:
A little bit of prep grinding and then it's time to flip this baby and spend a little time on the bottom, sides and transom.
Another check on the list 8)
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Looks great!
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Very impressive! :salut2:
Great work Rick!
//Lars
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Thanks guys - I still have quite a ways to go though.
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Did the last big grind of the inside :cheers:
And then did a little added CSM where needed
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1417.JPG)
Drilled and installed the lifting eyes and also added a bunch of csm to build up the transom and tie it into the liner I made. Have a few more layers to go.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1420.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1421.JPG)
It has been in the 70s here and I'm already seeing wasps so I am closing off any openings for the time she is upside down
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1418.JPG)
I covered the rectangular hole in the liner after the pic.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1419.JPG)
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Looks great Rick!
No wasps here yet, but they are calling for temps in the low 50's on Sunday!
I can't wait. We got 1.5 inches of wet snow yesterday... and then it froze over night.
It is almost gone now, but it makes working on the boat a drag. I hope to do quite a bit this weekend.
Impressive build you are doing!
If I could find a job I would move to Florida... ;-)
//Lars
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Plenty of boatbuilders here in Florida, Lars! You would fit right in!
Looking good Rick. Did you find someone to flip the boat yet?
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Hi Lars, I see a few wasps flying around here already :roll: It's in the 80s here this week.
Craig, I'm going to try it myself this weekend, fingers and cables crossed ::p:
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It's finally warming up here. They are calling for mid 50's here this weekend! :06:
It's boat building time!
The snow is gone. I can't say I miss it...
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:cool2:
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:16:
If I could find a job I would move to Florida... ;-)
//Lars
Bring some wimmen with ya! :13:
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:16:
If I could find a job I would move to Florida... ;-)
//Lars
Bring some wimmen with ya! :13:
Any redheads in Sweden :ScrChin:
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I used to have red hair :thumleft:
Actually I used to have hair :pale:
Oh well, life is life, take the good with the bad and wear a hat :wink: Life is ok again. :cheers:
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I don't think you are the type of redhead CB was talking about, Rick.
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I don't think you are the type of redhead CB was talking about, Rick.
I hope not :lolG:
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I don't think you are the type of redhead CB was talking about, Rick.
I hope not :lolG:
I was leaning more toward Ann-Margret but you do resemble a poor man's Vincent van Gogh.
That should make your re-build paint job rather interesting, as I move this thread back on topic. :whistle:
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Yes, Ann Margret is Swedish. Greta Garbo was Swedish. Her name was actually Gustafsson, not Garbo.
Ingrid Bergman Swedish... There has been a few.
My wife is a red head, but she is from Kentucky... ;-)
Have a great weekend guys! It is supposed to be a super nice weekend here. Heatwave on Sunday with 56 degrees and sunny!
I plan to open my tent and do a lot of wet sanding this weekend.
A cat show in Stockholm tomorrow will remove 6 hours from my schedule, but a man's gotta do what a man's gotta do...
//Lars
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Was that "cat" or "Car" :scratch:
Either way have a good time.
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Did you
Plenty of boatbuilders here in Florida, Lars! You would fit right in!
Looking good Rick. Did you find someone to flip the boat yet?
Did you have to build a cradle of sorts to support the boat between the bunks and front of the boat? I was going to use landscape timbers and lay one or 2 across the bunks and I realize the sheerline is nicely curved so I'm thinking I might have to add quite a few stacked timbers in several stacks to support the hull as I am moving forward. Did you post pix of the support system? I'll have to go look again.
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Hold on...gonna go get a picture or two right now....
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They say a picture is worth a thousand words. Mine are probably worth 500, as they're not that good. But I'll do my best to describe what I did.
First, I laid a 4x4 across the gunnels about 6 feet from the bow. Where it contacted the gunnels, I screwed on some 3/4" plywood to help distribute the load. On the outside of the hull, I screwed a 2x4 cleat on each side so that the hull would not be able to spread open. I then placed a piece of 3/4" plywood with a 4x4 screwed to it on the stringers, and cut some studs to fit between the 4x4 on the stringers and the 4x4 on the gunnels. I screwed some 3/4" plywood to the studs and 4x4s for additional support and to help stabilize it. I made the exact some thing for the other support, and placed it about 5' from the stern.
Here is the front support before it was flipped:
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_0196.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=11552&title=supports&cat=500)
Here is a picture of the cleat and load-distributing plywood on one of the supports (I'll have to remove the cleats to finish sanding off the old paint). Note that there is an eye screwed into the end of each 4x4. This allowed me to easily strap the support to the boat and keep it in place when it was being flipped.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_3236.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=11551&title=support&cat=500)
Here is the front support from under the boat. Note that I had to shim the support where it rests on the trailer to keep the bow from hitting the trailer tongue.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_3233.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=11549&title=support&cat=500)
I'm sure there are a million ways to do this, but this is working out pretty good for me. It is very stable, and I sleep better knowing the hull is supported adequately at 8 points (4 gunnel contact points and 4 stringer contact points.
Hope this helps give you some ideas :salut2:
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It does give me some ideas and things to do tomorrow. Thanks Craig :nSalute:
I like the sole/gunnel support idea too. I still think I will need some more support in the middle of the boat - my bunks sit on top of the aluminum frame, so there is probably an 8" vertical gap that I must fill for the support.
This should be fun though :dancing:
Thanks again buddy.
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Hey Craig, been meaning to ask you - is the plant still up and running?
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It does give me some ideas and things to do tomorrow. Thanks Craig :nSalute:
I like the sole/gunnel support idea too. I still think I will need some more support in the middle of the boat - my bunks sit on top of the aluminum frame, so there is probably an 8" vertical gap that I must fill for the support.
This should be fun though :dancing:
Thanks again buddy.
My rear support sits on top of the trailer bunks. My bunks are aluminum, and it works just fine.
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Hey Craig, been meaning to ask you - is the plant still up and running?
Nope, actually it hasn't been operating since late 2009. Less than a week after I bought my project boat in Feb. 2012, management made the decision not to restart the plant. I have a job here until 2018-2019. After that, I'm not sure what I'll be doing. I just hope my rebuild is done by then!
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Hey Craig, been meaning to ask you - is the plant still up and running?
Nope, actually it hasn't been operating since late 2009. Less than a week after I bought my project boat in Feb. 2012, management made the decision not to restart the plant. I have a job here until 2018-2019. After that, I'm not sure what I'll be doing. I just hope my rebuild is done by then!
When we talked at the Crystal River gathering you mentioned this - looks like they stretched it a little farther than you initially thought. You'll be long done with your rebuild for sure.
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I'm afraid that was cat show. My wive loves cats. I did however stop at two boat stores (like West Marine) on the way back. Bought some stuff for my boat at 20% off.
Pictures will come.
//Lars
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Yesterday I built a framework, somewhat like Craig's (thanks again for the ideas Craig) to support the gunnels off the bunks / trailer frame and also support the sole/stringers. I set the framework in the boat for the time being and called it a day.
Today was flip day.
While we were waiting for Dave to show up Ed and I started getting the chain hoists set up on the gantries. You can see the support framework in the boat in this pic
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1422.JPG)
I stretched a string from bow to stern to try to build the forward frame high enough to keep the bow off the trailer when upside down. Ended up having to lay a small piece of landscape timber (re-purposed two of the old clamps from the ones I built to clamp the transom liner) on the frame, each side up front, to raise it up the necessary height.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1423.JPG)
Dave finally arrived and inspected what we had finished (CB he said he's still waiting on an email)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1424.JPG)
We started the process - an antique cable hoist on the bow eye (gantry centered above the eye and the cable over the side of the cap) and two HF 1-ton chain hoists at the transom eyes with chains crossed. We lifted everything up so we could pull the trailer out from underneath it. Too bad the guy that built the gantries didn't make them wide enough to allow the guides to get by :embar: So we pulled it out as far as it would go and worked around it.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1425.JPG)
We started the turn
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1426.JPG)
When we got near vertical I attached a come-along to the starboard side of the gantry and to the port transom eye (the one at the top now) as a safety control for when the boat started to turn. Was a pain to keep loosening it but better safe than sorry. It all went pretty smoothly. Here it is flipped and ready for us to lift the support framework on top of the trailer as Dave rolled the trailer back under her.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1427.JPG)
Dave raised the bow up a bit and we were ready to go.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1428.JPG)
Eased her back down
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1429.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1430.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1431.JPG)
I guess we did ok
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1432.JPG)
Pulled the tarp back over the gantries and called it a day - it went as smoothly as we hoped.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1433.JPG)
Sanding time :roll:
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Good job Rick! Nothing broke and nobody got hurt, I'd call that a success!
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We heard some "creaking" as the hooks changed position but no bangs, no slips, no sudden drops, no bandaids needed. ;-) We were definitely always looking out for each other. The boat is put together, for the most part, with epoxy so I don't think anything is going to come apart.
It was scary and a first for me though and only cost me three breakfasts :93: (besides the hardware) but I was really happy the connection points (lifting eyes) were rock solid (I guess they are supposed to be - meaning no slop)
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:2Cents: Just what I've learned through my rebuild. Here's a tip - go no more than 1/32" bigger than the diameter of the eye shank, if that is the right term, as you drill the holes - 1/16" is too big - I have one that I drilled that big, I stepped down a 32nd and it was perfect. Also measure the eye shank separation for uniformity at start of threads to end of threads - if there is any significant difference the eyes will not go in easily if the holes are drilled the way they should be - perpendicular to the transom or prow (the hardest to keep perpendicular - I made a jig and I think it was still a degree or 3 off). I used this on the transom holes http://www.rockler.com/portable-drill-guide be prepared to make your own handle with some hardwood and some of your spare epoxy - I broke off the plastic one shortly after using it on the boat. I replaced it with an oak one and it is fine now.
I don't want to fill any slop with 5200. I overdrilled everything and filled with thickened epoxy, so there is no rot possibility so I can get away with latex to seal everything up against water intrusion.
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You crossed the chains. :idea:
I guess I remembered something about determinate structures after all but I was hedging my bet on those lifting rings you installed.
Maybe you do know what you're doing. :thumright:
Didn't see the electrician in the pics. :old01:
Now back to sanding. :zzz:
PS.... was Dave's thumb placed in that position surgically?
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I guess after Ed saw his pic online the first time he is camera shy now. Dave is the classic "ham" and had to be in any picture he could get in - with that "thumb" :great02:.
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Made great progress this weekend on the bottom - air inline sander with 40grit followed by a random orbital sparingly with 60 so I didn't add anything that needed to be faired.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1437.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1438.JPG)
Called it a day with this little bit left - maybe an hour?
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1436.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1439.JPG)
So next weekend I will sand that little bit off, remove the boot stripe where I haven't already, remove the adhesive and then sand the sides above the boot stripe. Then it's time to take a look at the hull, check for hook, repair the dings and scrapes, etc.
Then research some hi build primer that is epoxy compatible - I think I have narrowed my thought process to an epoxy barrier coat on the bottom and then a topcoat (a.k.a. paint) of some color. Seems the epoxy base coat is the best way to seal the bottom against water intrusion but they don't have UV protection so you need a topcoat that does. I want to be able to leave the boat in the water for 3-4 days at a time and everywhere I've read about paint is that it is not for use below the waterline. I found this company http://www.houseofkolor.com/products/products.jsp (http://www.houseofkolor.com/products/products.jsp) and called them and they said that their paint can be left in the water for up to two weeks :cheering2:
So I can pretty much have any color I want on the bottom and not worry about water hurting it for the duration I will be leaving it in the water.
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Looks good Rick. Glad you didn't uncover any issues like I did.
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I found nothing alarming. Found some stress crazing and some long scrapes like it was dragged over a rock or oyster bed. A few dings in the chines.
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I spent a couple hours today finishing the removal of bottom paint, still have the hull sides to do. I also spent an hour or so working on the transom. I put some fairing compound on some spots on the keel and will deal with that next weekend.
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Hey Rick, what are you using for fairing compound? And are you just removing bottom paint on the sides, or are you removing paint from the entire sides?
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Hi Craig, when I was down at Pro Marine I was shown APF7 as a faring compound. It's pretty expensive stuff but Mike said it's really good and sands like a dream. Mixes like bondo and he said it's really strong. I spread some on the prow of the boat and then went to work sanding on the transom. I haven't sanded any of the APF7 yet so I'm not sure how it'll sand. I imagine 40 grit will knock it down pretty fast. I'll let you know how it goes. I want to see if it leaves any pinholes like some of the less expensive bondo does.
I also bought some "micro balloons" and I have some "glass bubbles". If I have any big areas I'll mix up a batch with resin, cabosil and one of the two I just mentioned.
As for the paint on the sides - I picked up some adhesive remover today and will remove all the glue left by the boot stripe and then sand down the bottom paint on the sides. I bought the remover from a "Final Finish" store and found out that they have Imron Industrial paint. :13: They have the Black and White Gal kits (which is enough to do my hull 6 or so times but is the smallest I can find). I haven't been able to find Imron around here until now so now I'm thinking I might go back with Imron White on the sides - above the water line. It has really help up nicely for the past 15 years, I can sand the existing Imron lightly and spray it again. The research I did looking for it says when I got the runs in it 15 years ago I should have just sanded what I have with 2000 grit and buffed it out and it would have cleaned up like a showroom car. Hind sight. So I have had a crumby looking paint job all these years :03: So I'll lightly sand this coating and patch where I need to and then hit it again - going for mirror (maybe with some slight ripples ;-) ) this time.
For the bottom I ordered some Kustom Kolor high build epoxy primer, activator and reducer. It will be here Friday. I bought 2 qts so I can do a guide coating - grey on bottom and then white on top. Hopefully I'll have it pretty fair prior to this since the stuff is also pricey. Epoxy base coat though :thumright:. Then I need to figure out what I want to do with the topcoat color for the bottom. If I go white Imron on the sides, not sure what I want for the bottom. Maybe try to match the white of the sides? Who knows :shrug:
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Craig - check your PM for some info.
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Thanks Rick, that looks like some good stuff (and at that price, it better be!). I already bought a 5 gallon bucket of Arjay vinyl ester fairing compound and a gallon of Duratec vinyl ester fairing primer. I'm on the other coast this week for some R&R, so no progress on the boat, but hopefully I can finish the bottom work in the next few weeks. We'll see!
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R&R is a good thing - Enjoy :49:
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Looking good Rick!
Your boat will be the nicest Aquasport 170 out there!
Have a nice weekend!
//Lars
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Looking good Rick!
Your boat will be the nicest Aquasport 170 out there!
Have a nice weekend!
//Lars
Thanks Lars. I doubt it will be the nicest, but I hope it'll look like a new one.
Managed to get a little work done on the boat yesterday. I laid an 6' level on the aft third of the bottom of the hull and I saw that I had a "sag" of a 1/4" toward the transom on each side. I think this is called a "hook" in the hull.
I ground the area, marked all the depths
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1440.JPG)
and cut 5 layers of 3/4 oz CSM to start the build up of each side
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1441.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1442.JPG)
Then I mixed up some resin and lam'd them up, smallest to largest so each smooth out the previous layer
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1443.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1444.JPG)
Today I'll lay the level on it again and see how I did and how much more I need.
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Right after I posted the above post this morning I started to have an allergic reaction to a new med the DR gave me. My upper right lip started swelling a lot. We did the prudent "Dr Internet" search and seems that this was a rare side affect for this new med and I should seek emergency help. Off to the emergency room we went and the first thing the RN said after looking at me for a second was "are you taking Lisinpril (High BP medicine)" and I said yes and he said it was a text book side effect for that medicine. Well, the weird part is I have been taking that for a couple years with no side effects and it was not that med that said to go to the emergency room. He said that they see it a lot and it could take a month or 10 years to happen and Lisinpril is a very common, maybe the most common BP med prescribed, so heads up. This side effect for lisinpril is also a rare side effect, so we (wife and I) are guessing that two rares together may have been enough.
They gave me a cocktail of stuff via IV and I sat there a while and then they sent me home. I'm still swollen up and numb. They said it may take a day or two but to stop taking lisinpril. I'm also stopping the other new med and calling the doctors for advise. Hope the swelling is gone in the morning so I don't look goofy at work.
So anyway, no more progress today on the boat :03:
I did go out and laid the level across the parts I built up and it looks like I need a couple more layers in some spots and it looks like the port side (is the left side of the boat still port even if it's upside down?) needs me to extend the build up farther forward too. Maybe 3 or 4 layers about 2 more feet. I don't care if it's not perfectly flat but I do want to take most of it out.
I've been told that if the boat didn't porpoise before, with a hook, it may after I remove it. The boat would porpoise under certain circumstances (I think most boats will). So I may need to plan for some tabs, maybe those spring type? We'll see. The motor trim took care of the porpoise before.
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Sorry to hear about your reaction, Rick. Hopefully you are on the mend now.
I have a similar condition on my hull - the keel is straight as well as the chines, but a small depression exists on both sides. It is not significant, so I have been debating whether to leave it alone or tackle it, but I will probably go ahead and address it like you did while I have the chance. Are you using epoxy or poly for this?
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Hi Craig, I'm using poly. It's not structural, it's just a filler, per se.
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Hi Craig, I'm using poly. It's not structural, it's just a filler, per se.
Agreed.
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I just visited a place that does work for our company and on the other side of their shop is a place that does boat refinishing, not rebuilding, just repainting and I think I just was convinced to go back to gelcoat on the bottom. He said that any type of paint will not hold up against the friction of water (and your trailer).
So I'll have to find another place to spray the epoxy base coat that I bought :embar:
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That kinda sucks, but aren't you glad you got that info before you sprayed the epoxy?
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That kinda sucks, but aren't you glad you got that info before you sprayed the epoxy?
Yes, I am.
I can scruff up the sides and spray the primer over the Imron even though it doesn't need it, just to use it, then topcoat it with some kind of paint.
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Maybe there is still a solution here: http://www.duratec1.com/dp04.html check out the 2nd underlined bullet. Maybe I can still seal the bottom with the epoxy base coat after all and still gelcoat?
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As a follow-up on the duratec, they said they hadn't tested with the epoxy I bought and that "I will have to test it myself" :roll: so I will. I talked to one company that said that after I spray the epoxy base coat and it hardens, to wipe it with acetone and if it softens then their primer is not compatible. He said that would probably be the same with most. I wouldn't expect acetone to faze epoxy but a chemist I'm not. I'll find out.
As for the leveling the hook I think I ended up lamming about 10 layers of 3/4oz to bring it up to level and then I mixed some home blend filler to start fairing it in. I mixed poly with hardener and then added equal parts of cabosil and micro balloons and mixed it with a little drill mixer until I had peanut butter consistency (the mixer makes it nice and smooth) and then I spread it on and screeded (word?) the excess off with a length of pool cage aluminum and used the edge of it.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1446.JPG)
Then after a couple light coats of that I started using the APF7 that I bought and screeded that to get it close and ready to long board. The APF7 sands easier than my mix and doesn't leave pin holes (like my mix did).
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1445.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1447.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1448.JPG)
I ordered some 3M 4 1/2"W 30"L. long boarding material for this next step. I'll have to borrow Lars' avatar after this next step.
(http://www.funnycommercialsworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Skittles-settle-it.jpg)
I have an old 12' sailboat that needs to be re-gelcoated and the woodwork replaced/rebuilt. I plan on recruiting my grandsons on that one and the long board stuff will break them in just right. And when they are done, the boat is theirs. A little learning, sweat equity, trade-off for ownership exercise. :thumright:
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Just remember its the bottom, don't make it too pretty! Looks good
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Thanks Chris :salut2:
I am getting close to spraying the Epoxy base coat and then can fair the entire bottom. I know we've all heard of dyes and rattle paint cans for guide coating but I have been reading on just using graphite powder - you wipe a very small amount on with a rag and start sanding and it immediately shows you what you need to know. Takes like a tablespoon to do this size boat.
Anyone have any experience with this?
Joel - any expertise on this?
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Just remember its the bottom, don't make it too pretty! Looks good
X2! I keep looking at my bottom and saying the same thing to myself. I want to do enough so it doesn't look bad, but nobody's going to see it, so I'm not going to kill myself getting it faired perfectly.
Keep up the good work, Rick!
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The smoother, the faster it'll go I hope :25:
So I won't spend a ton of time on the whole bottom since 90% is ok 'cept the hook I just tackled BUT I will sand it all down with a stiff and flexible long board and then when I apply the topcoat (gelcoat or other) it'll be as smooth as it can possibly be.
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Rick
Thanks Chris :salut2:
I am getting close to spraying the Epoxy base coat and then can fair the entire bottom. I know we've all heard of dyes and rattle paint cans for guide coating but I have been reading on just using graphite powder - you wipe a very small amount on with a rag and start sanding and it immediately shows you what you need to know. Takes like a tablespoon to do this size boat.
Anyone have any experience with this?
Joel - any expertise on this?
yes, all the methods work. I still like a dusting of quick dry spray primer. Graphite is messy, but sure it works just fine.
BTW, no need to seal the bottom with a straight epoxy barrier coat when you are going to use an epoxy primer (especially on a boat that will not live permanently in the water)
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Rick
yes, all the methods work. I still like a dusting of quick dry spray primer. Graphite is messy, but sure it works just fine.
BTW, no need to seal the bottom with a straight epoxy barrier coat when you are going to use an epoxy primer (especially on a boat that will not live permanently in the water)
Thanks Joel.
I bought epoxy base coat/primer in two colors to use as a sealer and also a guide coat so I may not have to use anything other than that.
What I have to do after the fairing with the KD3000 is spray something (Duratec?) to allow me to gelcoat over the top of everything. The duratech seems to be poly based and will stick to epoxy. A little science experiment I guess.
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Im not sure I understand, why go back to gelcoat? If you have epoxy primer, then your ready next for topcoat.
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That's ok, I'm not sure I understand anymore either.
I want to be able to leave my boat in the water for 4 days or so but I don't want to use regular bottom paint. So I bought epoxy hi-build primer so I can seal the bottom but I want a slick surface as a top coat. Most every paint tells you it is for above the water line or it is anti-fouling and you don't get many color options. So first I figured I'd use a good single part urethane as the top coat but was told it probably wouldn't last on the bottom (friction of the water and trailer abrasion). I was told it would be best to go back to gelcoat since it is so durable.
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I think I understand now, this is just for the bottom. I thought you were going to re-gelcoat the whole boat :shocked:
a few options I would consider before resorting to GC
- A real two part topcoat is fine for at least a couple weeks, probably much longer, its also hard as nails.
- the VC performance from interlux, it builds higher than topcoat. My buddy just finished spraying the bottom of his 25 seacraft with it and it turned out quite nice.
- ablative bottom paint over top the epoxy primer - simple
- epoxy/graphite, only down side is its black
With those options you don't have to worry about the potential bonding issues
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I have Imron on the sides now so it might be nice to figure out something that will topcoat the bottom and the sides?
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The long board stuff arrived
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1449.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=11804&title=cimg1449&cat=646)
I bought 40, 80, and 180 grit paper - pricey but I think worth it.
One is rigid and one is flexible and they are both hook and loop 30" x 4 1/2" - requiring special paper - 3M Hookit
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1450.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=11805&title=cimg1450&cat=646)
Here is the 40 grit attached - a big long board waiting to kick butt :pale:
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1451.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=11806&title=cimg1451&cat=646)
I can tell you that this rigid board is quite the tool, the 40 Grit worked the filler down relatively easy - and that term is used loosely since it kicked my butt. I wish I had a selfie of me in front of the big fan dripping sweat and that was after only a 10 minute exercise (actually only a few minutes - it's in the 80s here already :lolG: ).
So I worked a few minutes, took a break, went back at it, etc. I did this for about 2 hours and made good progress. This is the left side and the largest area - maybe 5ft x 3 ftwide.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1452.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=11807&title=cimg1452&cat=646)
The right side of the boat hook area is less area than the long board length so it is easy to survey what is happening, low and high, as you work the board. As you can see there is some filler needed.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1453.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=11808&title=cimg1453&cat=646)
The length of the tool is sweet in that it spans a lot of area which shows everything as you sand. It spans areas that you thought were low but actually the outer edges were too high.
I did all this on one piece of 40 grit paper.
I hope I can move my arms tomorrow. :shocked:
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Practice makes perfect, Rick. If you want to practice on mine, feel free. I'm really not looking forward to that.
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I certainly wouldn't want to use this board to do the entire hull from the beginning, especially roughing out an area :shocked: - the air inline sander did a fine job on that stuff. If you get good at using a straight edge to screed off the fairing material then this board is not bad to sand down semi flat areas.
I set my level on the areas when I was done and both sides looked nice and flat everywhere. I still have a few areas to fill slightly but overall, nice and flat. :great02:
After I spray the primer on the hull the longboards will make short work of finishing everything I'm hoping.
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Nice work Rick!
I hope I can see your boat in person in Florida some day.
My mothers Aunt lives in Naples Florida. Maybe we can combine the trip.
Keep up the good work!
//Lars
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"Some day" I may finish it :roll: Would love to meet you and if we work it right maybe we can do a little fishing on her. Naples is about 80 miles south as the seagull flies.
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Some boring progress. Spent about an hour on the longboard on the right side of the hull today and then mixed up some filler and spread it on the lows I found
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1454.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=11813&title=cimg1454&cat=646)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1455.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=11814&title=cimg1455&cat=646)
And started heavy on the transom - getting it mostly flat.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1456.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=11815&title=cimg1456&cat=646)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1457.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=11816&title=cimg1457&cat=646)
Next weekend is the campout, so I'll get a well deserved break.
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Ooooo fun stuff! :mrgreen:
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That would be cool Rick!
Fishing in Florida on your Aquasport would be super nice!
I sanded yesterday. Will buy more 180 grit paper today for the transom.
Thursday looks like we will finally get some warm weather. I can't wait!
Hopefully warm enough for two coats of top coat. Or one coat of gel coat and one top coat.
Your boat is coming along fine!
//Lars
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looking good Rick. That 3m paper is sure expensive, but it does last a very long time. When Im done with it on the faring board, i will cut it up and use it on the corner sander. If you cut a piece that is about 1/2" bigger all around than the footprint of the sander, it will allow you to push the sander into tight corners
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Good idea Joel.
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Joel, have you used white graphite? Benefits/downsides of graphite? What are your thought on this?
http://forums.bateau2.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=59416
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Hey Rick, I have not used it. It seems like a lot of trouble ....
. Ended up with 6 coats on the bottom. Sanded down with 120 grit between each coat. My plan is to have the whole boat painted
I think using the VC epoxy bottom paint would be a lot easier and maybe cheaper (maybe not, dont know)
Graphite (white or black) is not going to give a really nice finish without some work (sanding). I used it on a couple boats and loved it, but then again I was not at all picky about how it looked :wink2:
I used a product called ceram-coat once, an epoxy with ceramic in it, and you could hardly scratch it with a nail. Its primary use is for coating the insides of pipe for drilling slurry - talk about abrasion ! It is very similar to the VC epoxy bottom paint.
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I have lost 25lbs, lost 3 inches from my waist and gained 2 inches in my arms using this fairing board set and I'm still on the first piece of sandpaper :shock:
Well, the only truth in the above statement is that I'm still on the first piece of 40 grit sandpaper :roll: Man is this stuff tough. The first piece still looks brand new.
I long boarded the left side and only have some spot filling left. I'm thinking about going back to my auto body roots and use some glazing putty to fill the small holes.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1461.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=12061&title=cimg1461&cat=646)
Then I attacked the transom grinding all the CSM semi flat and then mixed up some resin, Cabosil and chopped fibers and filled in where necessary. Then I ground that flat and have to admit I am getting pretty good with a 7" grinder and a flap sandpaper wheel. I can get everything very close to flat with the grinder :great02: And I ran the long board over it for a while too.
Then I needed to add a little fairing filler - hopefully I'll only need one more coat after this
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1459.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=12059&title=cimg1459&cat=646)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1460.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=12060&title=cimg1460&cat=646)
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Great work Rick! Congratulations on the weight loss. I sure could loose a few pounds too...
It's a constant battle...
Impressive work!
//Lars
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Looking great Rick.
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Looks good Rick.....grinding and sanding requires lots of re-hydration :singing: so much for the weight loss for me. Getting hot in Florida yet?
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Thanks guys.
I was only kidding about the weight loss and body building :wink2:
It was close to 90 here yesterday, so I'd say summer is here. Rehydration is key here for sure :singing:
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I have lost 25lbs,
I'd suggest if you look behind ya, you may find it. :mrgreen:
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Thanks CB - can always count on you for support ::p:
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You are doing a killer job Rick! I am hoping to get mine flipped in a few weeks and see what I have going on under there.
Keep up the great make, and for safety's sake... Stay hydrated! I know I will. :singing:
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Thanks for the kind words Carl. Sure looking forward to seeing you start blasting through it again.
I spent this weekend building my upper body strength some more (aka long boarding) and I think I just about have it now.
I spent the lion share of the time on the transom and it's looking nice and flat and I have just a little bit of time left to work on the transom top edge.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1462.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=12125&title=cimg1462&cat=646)
I spent the last bit of time on the right side of the hull and have a little more time to spend on it and it'll be done.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1463.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=12126&title=cimg1463&cat=646)
I also filled back in the holes I drilled for the jack plate as they were not quite right - were angled a little. Not sure how that happened as I'm using a portable drill press. Maybe it's not square? Anyway, I drilled into a slug of thickened epoxy - so I refilled them with more epoxy and will drill next weekend.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1464.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=12127&title=cimg1464&cat=646)
All in all a mundane task all weekend. Oh and I am still on the first piece of 40 grit paper on the longboard and it still looks new. :shocked: I still have 9 more . Anyone want to rent some paper? :lolG:
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Looking good Rick! I'm getting close to starting the fairing process with a vengeance. At least I think I'm getting close....
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Next weekend after I fair the transom and the right side I will rough up the Imron on the hull sides and then I think I'll be ready to prime.
All the time I was fairing and fairing I was looking at the lifting strake on the front of this hull, from the rear - I'm not sure I've seen that type of strake on other boats, but maybe missed it. These are very pronounced and purposeful.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1438.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1439.JPG)
You can see how sharp the strake is here - the rear edge
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1449.JPG)
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That 3m paper is some seriously awesome stuff. We use the gold at work and it cuts forever compared to every other brand we have tried. Our local surplus store bought a huge lot of 3m paper recently, I bought several rolls of 6 inch "stik it" in various grits and a few boxes of 2 3/4" x 16 1/2" for the in line for under $100!
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This paper is 10X what gold is, maybe more - INDUSTRIAL. Seems I can't wear it out but it sure can wear me out.
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Super fine job Rick!
I got sick on Thursday... Kind of ruined my 4 day weekend.
The work you are doing is truly impressive! :thumleft:
//Lars
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Thanks Lars - that's too bad you lost a 4 day weekend to being sick.
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Yes it was, but I should not complain. I have not been sick for a very long time. It will go away in a couple of days.
Next weekend I hope to do more on the boat.
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I think it is ready :woohoo:
Everything is faired down to 180 grit. (Still on the first sheet of everything)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1465.JPG)
I used an air DA to sand the hullsides (Imron) with 220 grit.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1466.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1467.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1468.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1469.JPG)
I did find some dings in the hull that I filled and will have to fair those spots but otherwise it's ready for primer.
I know, I know, you're saying to yourself "Rick it looks the same as it has for the past month or so" - I can say that at 50 feet it looks the same but at 5 feet it looks and feels good.
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Looking great Rick! Fantastic job!
I will be focusing on my center console tonight. Prepping it for paint. I have given up on trying to do gelcoat repairs. It's just not possible without coating the hole thing...
I will put polyurethane paint on it.
:sign0098:
Keep up the good work!
//Lars
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Nice Rick! That's got to be a great feeling!
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Thanks Lars and Craig - it'll feel better once it's primed. Man was it hot out there in the afternoon - smmmooookin' hot.
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Nice work Rick.......hope to start on the fairing out and hull prep on my 196 soon. Ever decide on the paint?......so many options.
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I have not finalized the top coat.
I have purchased the epoxy primer so I'll do this first and then worry about the topcoat. I would love to find some kind of paint that is ok for use under the waterline for a few days. While working on the Imron yesterday I was tempted to go back with that above the waterline. It has held up really well for the past 15 years.
Still on the fence though.
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Washed the boat down early this morning along with the console. I planned on trying to prime the bottom today. They dried pretty quick and then it rained all of a sudden :badday: So much for priming.
So I came back out a little while later and glued together a few pieces of epoxy lamination scraps I had together and then cut them into 2"Hx3"Wx 7/16"T "pads" that I mounted on the lower portion of the transom to mount my FF transducer so I'm not drilling into my new transom core.
I drilled a hole in the middle and lightly drilled into the transom skin and put a pretty short screw in to hold the 5min epoxy until it hardened. I scruffed up the area under each of the pads.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1470.JPG)
You can get the idea of the mounting here - and that is with the transducer about 1/4" proud of the bottom
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1471.JPG)
I put one on each side in case I have to move it to the other side for some reason. I also mounted them in 10" from where the chine starts in case I need 9" tabs in the future.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1472.JPG)
I'll put the screws a little later today, mix up some thickened epoxy and fill the holes. Maybe tomorrow will be a priming day?
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Nice touch with the pads :thumleft:
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Thanks Craig.
I used a countersink bit and made the holes bigger and then dug out any resin left from the bit. I ground out enough around the pads and also cleaned them up with a 2" drill mounted round sandpaper (60 grit - Harbor Freight).
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1475.JPG)
On this pic you can see the screw holes from where the transducer had been mounted.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1476.JPG)
I can never mix a tiny portion of epoxy - the measuring cups don't usually go into small enough increments. The pumps (and I have them) would have pumped too much also for this. I only needed about a quarter in size, maybe a half dollar size, to fill the holes and pack it in good. The smallest I could mix was 3 oz. then added cabosil and figured I would try a fillet to help secure them and also make it look better. I ended up with about half or more of what I mixed :roll:
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1477.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1478.JPG)
I'll take a dowel tomorrow and wrap some sandpaper around it and smooth the fillets down a bit so the pads look like they were planned instead of last minute, like they were.
Hopefully the weather will leave me alone tomorrow,
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Awesome work, as usual! I am looking forward to seeing her in primer (probably not as much as you though...
As far as paint, have you looked into the EMC paints at all? I'm not just bring it up because I bought it, especially since I haven't put any on yet... Just going off of the TDS, it seems to be a pretty awesome product.
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Looking great Rick!
Great idea with the pads. :thumleft:
I hope the weather cooperates better soon. We have stormy weather here. It is supposed to last all week. I don't know what is up with the weather anymore...
//Lars
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Thanks Carl and Lars.
I am ready to prime, have the air hose out and ready and the primer is stirred. Storms are popping up all around me so I don't know....
It'll take maybe 10 mins max to spray it but it needs to cure for at least an hour, I assume without rain getting to it :roll:
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You might already be done, but I want you to know I am pulling for ya!
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Thanks Carl :tu4:
The pads came out well
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1479.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1480.JPG)
The storms gave me a break and I was able to get the first coat of primer on :weehee:
I wasn't happy with the way the HVLP gun was working, more pulsing instead of a steady spray. I played with everything and it seems that it wasn't going to work right. I'm using a 1.8 tip per paint mfr instructions. I put the 2.5 back on and tried it and it seems to spray better - I didn't notice this when I sprayed the gelcoat with Duratec. I'll have to do a little researching I guess before the next coat.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1481.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1482.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1483.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1484.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1485.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1486.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1487.JPG)
One thing for sure is I have a lot of pinholes to fill :bangbang2:
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Looks nice. I'm glad the weather cooperated with you. I'm sure you'll get the gun issue figured out before long. I'm working on my boat today too, hopefully I'll have some pics to post up later.
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Looking sharp Rick!
:sign0098:
//Lars
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Awesome Rick! Just putting a coat of primer makes it look great!
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Thanks guys - it feels good to have that done. I couldn't believe the pinholes everywhere though. I think I'm going to use glazing putty to fill them and then start the sanding process.
I have one more qt of primer and activator so I want to make sure it's all filled and ready for the last coat. This coat will be white.
I think I found out why my gun is acting up - I might have an air leak where the cup screws on. I'll re-tape it and try it with water.
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Looks good Rick....can't wait to see the painted product. :thumright:
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Thanks JF - got a ways to go yet and haven't figured out a color nor a product for the top coat yet.
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I've been thinking about that myself....I like the greens and blues...kinda like seafoam green.....and whites
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Can't go wrong with white. But I'm leaning towards sea foam green myself. It is all going to come down to how fair my sides are.
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Man did I have pinholes :a0004:
Glazing putty city
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1489.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1490.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1491.JPG)
Both sides look about the same.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1492.JPG)
Sanding city (again) and the pinholes are for the most part gone. :72:
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1493.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1494.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1495.JPG)
She's ready for the last coat of primer. I was going to spray it today but the wind is up. :03:
Decided on Interlux VC Performance White for the bottom top coat. Bought a 1/2 gal kit. Should give me enough to lay a few coats on, sanding in between until I have a nice smooth and shiny bottom. So at least another weekend of painting and sanding and painting and.... maybe 2 weekends.
For the hull sides I am still on the fence but leaning toward the EMC Blue tone White that Shine sells.
While the stuff dries that I am spraying on the bottom and hull sides I will get back to the console and spray it with a good coat of gelcoat and finish that up. Maybe start mounting everything in it.
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Looking great Rick! :sign0098:
I hope the weather cooperates with you in the coming weeks. I know how frustrating weather can be...
I dry fitted and varnished my teak pieces yesterday. Took all afternoon. Pictures hopefully on Wednesday, once installed.
Your boat will be amazing!
//Lars
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Happy fathers day everyone!!
I made a little progress this weekend. Saturday I shot the hull bottom with the last coat of primer. I thought I fixed the gun but it still pulsates - they say it's an air leak somewhere but beats me where it is, and it only pulsates withe the 1.8 tip NOT with the 2.5 :?: I pulled out a 1.5 cheapo harbor freight gun and it worked perfectly.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1502.JPG)
Ready for some hand block sanding
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1503.JPG)
Today I set up the "booth" after I returned from brunch with my oldest daughter - wind had picked up :grrrr:
Anyway it worked out fine and I got the console and the seat, door gelcoated.
Shiney - the duratec really makes it sweet to spray and it comes all shined up :93:
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1496.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1497.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1498.JPG)
The seat and back - can't see much - a little shine. Need to wet sand the back rest to get it shinier.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1499.JPG)
The door to the storage - you can see the tree and sky in the reflection
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1500.JPG)
Overall I am really pleased how the gelcoat came out and with no bugs in it. :tu4: This is the second coat for the console and seat but the first for the door. I noticed I have a couple minor runs that will need to be sanded out and I missed one corner on the console so I'll have to touch that up. Otherwise it came out pretty sweet. The color is hard to see in the pics - it's a lightly blue tinted white. I mixed 2 qts in a big container, tinted it and then split it back up into the 2 qt cans. Still have a full qt and a full qt of duratec. Have to spray the rod rack inserts and then the water run lines on the cap and floor in between the non-skid.
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One more pic after I took it off the hanger
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1504.JPG)
In my spare time I will start hitting it with 400, 800 and 1200 wet sanding
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Wow, Rick! Looks like you had a productive day! Looks great!
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Your having some fun now.....It looks sweet. :cool2:
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:sign0098:
Great progress and great work Rick!
Looks awesome!
//Lars
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That looks awesome rick!
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Not much to report. Sanded the primer on the boat down with 220 but the wind was too strong to spray the bottom paint. I jumped over to the console and pulled out the 400 and 800 and an air jitterbug sander I bought from HF. Filled a bucket with water and brought out a big sponge and started wet sanding with 400 on the jitterbug. Didn't take long to cut through the gelcoat I had so happily sprayed last weekend :03:
So, note to self "lay it on thick next time" - live and learn :singing:
Probably have to rough it up to 220 and then spray it again. Glad I still have the qt of tinted gelcoat left.
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I'm sorry to hear you went through the gelcoat.
I did the same thing on my transom... It takes several coats before you manage to sand without breaking through. The reason my Seacast sticker is where it is, is because I sanded through a small spot right there... I just gave up and placed the sticker over the little spot...
I learned a new English word. Jitterbug sander. I had never heard that expression before.
Thanks!
//Lars
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Stickers are a good thing sometimes ;-)
All is good - I'm learning - gotta keep the grey mass between your ears active.
All the reading I did on gelcoat said that you need 20 mils minimum and I do have a dump gun but I don't think you can use the Duratec with it because it's too thin for the gun then. Maybe you can - Duratec says to use a 2.5 tip though. The duratec makes it nice because the gel flows out and lays down. Maybe I need to not use Duratec and use the dump gun??
I have a lot of gelcoat on the console but the first coat was pure white, shot through the dump gun and it was 20 mils at least.
Hey, I'm ok with learning as long as it doesn't cost too much money to do so. I'll lay it on thicker the next time - that is the key to having working thickness.
Here is a link to the jitterbug I bought - it's heavy and works well (maybe too well)
http://www.harborfreight.com/catalogsearch/result?q=jitterbug
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Bummer on the gelcoat, Rick. But at least it's correctable. Are you using straight water? I read somewhere (maybe here?) to use water with a little soap mixed in. Put it in a spray bottle and just spray the area before sanding. Don't know if that would help any....
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Not sure of the soap but I think I've heard of this also. I had the table tilted just a tad and then kept squeezing the sponge (it's a big sponge) to flood the area. Actually worked too good. I'm thinking maybe next time using sanding blocks instead of the jitterbug. The console is not a huge area, so it's not going to kill me but it will give me a little more control and I'll squeegee off the water to see where I'm at frequently.
What are you going to do for your gelcoat Craig? Straight gelcoat or use duratec? I think I would use straight gelcoat for the first layer or two to get some gelcoat on her and work it smooth to maybe 220. Then color it up for the final shot/color and maybe use duratec so it'll lay down (just lay it on heavy so you can sand it a bit).
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I'm going with gelcoat with the Duratec additive. However, since I don't have the tools, facilities, or experience, I'm going to have the hull sprayed by Robb at Young Boats. Since I am still trying to minimize costs (not too well I might add), I am doing the prep work, and I will be doing the wet sanding and polishing. I'm not sure of his process (Duratec in final coat or every coat), but I'll leave that up to him.
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WOW Rick! You've done an awesome job! Feels like I've been studying for finals all the reading I've been doing. :shocked: Still cleaning out the spot in the shop where my FB is gonna go then hopefully I can get started on the transom in a week or so.
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Thanks HL. Need a nice weekend (this weekend hopefully) to get the bottom done and then there will be some curing time before I can prime the hullsides and paint them too. There is 3 days of cure time between the prime and the topcoat so a couple more weeks I guess.
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Wind wouldn't lay down today so I had to go to plan B which was rolling the VC on. Not my first choice but mother nature is making me.
Taped off where I think the waterline will be - I will topcoat the VC with the paint I'll use for the hullsides. The EMC should be fine under the waterline for a couple days max and the VC will water proof the hull bottom.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1505.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1506.JPG)
I read everything I could find on how to apply it and on the Interlux forum the same guy (employee of Interlux) said two different things (actually three) about how to apply with a roller. 1) he said to use a 3/8" nap roller, not a foam roller sleeve 2) he said to use a 3/16" nap roller (which I couldn't find) and 3) he said "the little 4" foam rollers work real well" - so I was confused and bought the foam sleeves and 1/4" nap roller sleeves.
First coat rolled on with the foam sleeve. And it came out like it was rolled on with a foam roller. :oops: Ended painting around 1245P.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1507.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1508.JPG)
You can see how it didn't really lay down because there was not enough material to lay down. I mixed a total qt and had enough to go around the bottom 1.5 times (didn't want to waste what I had left in the pan). Note to self - don't do that again. It was starting to tack up as I started the second coat in places it started lifting or leaving trails.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1509.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1510.JPG)
They say to wait 5 hrs before re-coating it (at 70F) and it's every bit of 90F so I will wait until 6 pm even though I think it is ready now at 430P and this time I'll mix up the last qt, use the 1/4" nap roller and try to lay it on thick enough so I don't have any left in the tray when I finish this one coat. I think it then will have enough material on it from the 1/4" nap to lay down. We'll see. Stay tuned.
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Looks great Rick, and the bottom looks very fair. Good job :salut2:
Hopefully the final coat comes out perfect!
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It's starting to rain now :91:
I only have like 21 hours until I have to start sanding - like I need to recoat no later than 9AM - hope this quits in the next few minutes - I need an hour to recoat (you mix the stuff together and it has to sit for 30 mins before you use it).
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It ain't stopping so it looks like it's going to be a rush in the AM. :03:
In the heat here I wonder if the sanding time is still max 24hrs total or is it less? I don't have much on it to sand anyway but would prefer to not sand.
I may need to plan on getting more material for more coats - they say 3-4 coats and a 2 qt kit does my boat with 2 coats.
Maybe I'll order some thinner too and plan on spraying it again for the last two coats.
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It stopped :1rij:
I wiped the little bit of water off the boat from leaks in the tarp and mixed the next batch. I have until to 745 to watch out for any rogue storms to build up. Keeping my fingers crossed. My wife says "just do it in the morning" - they just don't understand some things....
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Women :roll:. Good luck!
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Yeah :040:
So I avoided rain - yay
Used the 1/4" nap roller sleeve and laid it on thick, I thought, and still had some left when I went around the boat. It now looks like I rolled it on with a 1/4" nap roller :scratch:
Much thicker but didn't lay down much so far. It'll have a cooler temp to do it's thing (it's still over 80 here at 845P) and I guess I'll see in the morning but I expect it'll look the same - seemed to already be dry to the touch after 30 mins, not 2 hrs like they say.
Looks like I have some wet sanding in my future this weekend - sometime before 5pm tomorrow.
Not much difference in pics from before - have to "be there" I guess.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1511.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1512.JPG)
I'm really liking the pads I added for a transducer, even though I fish in water mostly under 6 ft :roll:
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1513.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1514.JPG)
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It's looking great Rick!
Your boat will truly look like a brand new boat! :thumleft:
We are heading out on the water today. I will take more pictures.
//Lars
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Thanks Lars.
I took a look at the bottom this morning and it looked the same, as expected. The wind was very slight so I pitched the console in the tree, erected the spray booth and shot about 1.5 qts of gelcoat/Duratek on the console, the seat and the door. All looking really nice - the console has a couple places that I need to sand out and re-spray along with the back of the door. Luckily I saved about 6 oz of gelcoat mix.
I took a brunch break and then went at the bottom of the boat wet sanding with 400 and the jitterbug. Did the transom and got one side done and about 3 feet of the other before I decided to give the neighbors a break from the compressor. Took about 3 hours.
You can see the right side has not been done but the left has a little shine in it from the 400 grit. Too bad I didn't lay heavier coats, might have been able to get by with 2. I will order another 1/2 gal kit, spray it and then sand it down to 800 grit. Based on what I'm seeing, it'll look great.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1515.JPG)
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I can't wait to get some color on mine! Looking good Rick!
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Agreed, it's gotta feel good to get some paint on the hull!
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A little better pic of the left side
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1516.JPG)
Pretty happy with the way the VC Performance sands down and shines though - after 3 hours today I have the right side done in 400
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1517.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1519.JPG)
Ordered in another 1/2gal kit with some thinner for next weekend.
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Looking good, almost there!
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Thanks Craig, I figure I have 2-3 more weekends until I'm ready to flip her back over. Have to spray and finish the bottom and then do the hull sides. All takes time and time for me is weekends.
When I first started wet sanding the VC I put the bucket of water on top of the boat and it immediately slid right off and landed on the ground. The VC Performance is slick stuff, at least before you sand it. After you sand it, it looks like gelcoat.
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Started off Saturday washing the bottom of the boat and letting it dry. Then I masked it off, This 3M stuff is cool - it is 1 ft wide and comes on a 180' roll. You tape it to the "subject" and then you pull on the back part of the plastic and it unfolds out 4' - nice.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1520.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1521.JPG)
Then I mixed the 1st qt of paint and let it sit the 30 mins it needs to mix. I tried my 2.5 tip on my Aeropro gun and didn't thin the product. Damn gun has an air leak in it - I don't see it with gelcoat but I do with paint. Had to spray the first qt with a pulsing gun :thumbdown:
Went back to my old reliable Harbor freight 1.5 gun, thinned down the paint about 15% and let it sit. When I sprayed the 2nd qt it flowed like it's supposed to and I got a pretty nice last coat.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1522.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1523.JPG)
It was about noon when I finished and it needed a few hours to really harden before I started wet sanding so I mowed the yard instead.
Sunday I got everything ready to start around 10am and started with 400 and finished one side and then immediately went to 800 and then 1200.
Then I went to the other side and repeated the process. 8 straight hours :shocked:
Came out pretty nice though - still want to buff it out with 2000 Aquabuff to get it all evenly shiny.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1524.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1525.JPG)
I will buff it next Saturday and then lightly sand the paint that I sprayed on the sides with 220 to prep it for the primer for the hull sides. Then I'll mask off and cover the bottom and start working the hull sides.
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Looks great Rick! Sounds like a bit of work, but looks like it was worth it in the end :bravo_2:.
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Looking shiny!
DONT leave that visqueen masking on your new paint job for more than a few days outside. Itll get condensation under it and cloud your topcoat. Guess how I know haha
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It's looking fantastic Rick! Great job! :thumleft:
I can't wait to see when you turn her around again.
Great progress!
//Lars
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Looking shiny!
DONT leave that visqueen masking on your new paint job for more than a few days outside. Itll get condensation under it and cloud your topcoat. Guess how I know haha
Thanks Chris and thanks for the tip.
It's looking fantastic Rick! Great job! :thumleft:
I can't wait to see when you turn her around again.
Great progress!
//Lars
Thanks Lars - you and me both on the flip.
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Been a rainy day here.
In between showers I was able to sand down the hull sides again and rough up the bottom paint I sprayed on the hullsides.
Then I looked at the transom and there were pinholes, that I thought I already took care of. :a0002:
So I filled them and sanded it all down again - most are gone now.
Since it was raining on and off, I drilled the engine mount holes with the help of a friend that stopped by.
Washed it all down and am hoping that the weather shapes up tomorrow for spraying primer. Have to get this thing done. The bottom really looks good after I washed the sanding residue off it with a soft brush.
This past week I ordered a rebuild kit for the Aeropro paint gun and rebuilt it today - hopefully it'll act like a normal spray gun tomorrow.
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Hello Rick
I hope your weather picks up tomorrow. It's grey and kind of cool here today, but I took my nephews and my daughter out on the boat this afternoon. I will have to change the prop. Will only get 4900 rpms but other than that I'm super happy with the boat. Tomorrow I'm driving Lauren back to Stockholm, but later this week I'm planning more boating. Good luck with the weather tomorrow. I hope to see your boat live one day.
//Lars
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The weather started out rainy on and off but cleared out enough for me to mask the bottom off and get a quart kit of primer on the hullsides and transom. There was enough paint in the kit (primer, activator and reducer) to put multiple coats on for a good covering.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1526.JPG)
Drilled the engine mount holes also
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1527.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1528.JPG)
Now around mid-week it needs a light sanding of 220 or higher and then it's paint time.
(BTW the paint gun still sputtered after rebuild - either I didn't do the rebuild properly or the gun is junk - the HF gun worked fine)
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Wow Rick, that is looking great!
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This weekend really sucked for trying to paint the boat - on and off rain all weekend :badday:
I thought I was getting a break - radar looked like a few hour break anyway and I went out and washed and masked off the boat - then it built up right over my head and it's been raining hard for over an hour now. Maybe next weekend.....
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Hello Rick,
Sorry to hear that. This past week has been unbelievably bad for us too.
I hope your weather picks up so that you can finish your paint job.
//Lars
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Another crummy weekend - my wife tells me we have had 21 straight days of rain each day. Now the radar looks like a huge break in the storms, now that it is Sunday eve - go figure. I may have to take a day off during the week just to get it painted.
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That is a real bummer Rick. Still wish I could borrow some of that rain. Pond is 4 feet low and the grass is turning brown. :huh02:
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Well, I finally made some progress :cheers:
After I primed the boat I sprayed it and that didn't come out well - too big of a tip and I got some runs in it :thumbdown: Luckily I ordered 2 quarts of paint and I only used one :tu4:
So, I sanded it back down, ordered some more primer in and sprayed it - this time I ordered high build primer and it is definitely different than the first I ordered. Pretty thick stuff.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1532.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1531.JPG)
I sanded this primer down with 220 yesterday and then today buffed the bottom with Aquabuff 2000, which seemed to help shine it up some more. I think I will do one more buff with 3m Final Finish.
Then I washed the boat and masked the bottom off and
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1533.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1534.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1535.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1536.JPG)
The paint I used is EMC Blue Tint White. I see some places that didn't get the same amount of the last coat that I sprayed so I think I need to sand it and buff it out. Overall it came out pretty nice.
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Wow, that is looking really great Rick! When do you think you will be flipping her back upright?
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Thanks Craig, I think I have another weekend of wet sanding/buffing ahead of me and then it's flip time.
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Wow that looks awesome!
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That looks awesome Rick!
Great job!!! :bravo_2:
I can't wait to see the boat after the flip!
//Lars
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Thanks guys. Still have some wet sanding in my future.
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Like that color :tu4:
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I second that like on the color. It looks great. Happy sanding. :clap01:
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Here's some light reading on your existing Bimini and cover.
https://www.ritstudio.com/color-library/core-colors/
A lot of options out there. :think1:
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I guess you lost me there CB - not changing the cover or the bimini.
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Oh wow, that thing looks pretty.
Now my boat looks inadequate. ;-)
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Now my boat looks inadequate. ;-)
Just another case of "hull envy" Jim.
Not to worry, it will pass on its own. :whoo:
For some reason, I thought Rick was going with a different color. :?:
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I did some light wet sanding today to brighten up a couple spots (600, 800, 1200 and buffed with 2000) and while it did smooth them out and shine them up, the gloss is now different - so, it is what it is, flipping her tomorrow.
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Rick I'll say my prayers at bedtime tonight that the flipping goes without a ding or scratch! We'll be bleeding that steering before you know it. You are in the 4th turn heading for the finish line! (Daytona)
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Thanks buddy.
I have a bit of work ahead of me with gel coating everything inside but I'll be in the home stretch.
I bought a 1/2" eye bolt today to use as the rotation point in a engine mount hole, instead of the method I used before (that actually worked well). I reinstalled the lifting eyes I used before to flip her and noticed that one of them was bent a bit, so I must have nearly exceeded the lifting spec when I turned her the first time. They are like 5/16" - not the beef I bought today. I think I may need one of them to help turn it though.
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Rick, Did you use Grade 8 bolts?
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Hi Bobby, not sure what you are asking and for which bolts. The lifting eyes are 316 stainless. The bolt I bought for flipping I think is zinc over steel.
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My bad, didn't read enough of your post
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I believe Bobby was referring to the bolts you used for flipping the boat. Grade 8 bolts are high strength, and are able to handle a much higher load without deformation or failure than a standard bolt. In your case, I think going from 5/16" to 1/2" is an adequate response to the bent bolt issue you had with the initial flip. Good luck on the flip tomorrow! Hopefully it will be as eventful as watching paint dry....
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(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1537.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1539.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1538.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1540.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1542.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1543.JPG)
The only damage and it is minimal and will be covered by jack plate.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1541.JPG)
Back where we started but with more shine
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1544.JPG)
A big thanks goes out to my buddies Dave and Ed for the help - couldn't have done it with out them.
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Well done, Rick! And the boat is looking great!
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Looking great! Nice work. The color is subtle and very nice.
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Thanks guys - the color is exactly what I hoped to end up with. In some light it looks greenish and in some it looks blueish. As you said, subtle, for sure.. a nice contrast to the white bottom.
I mixed the gelcoat for the console long ago and mixed the exact same color. I will gelcoat the gunwales and inside of the boat the same color and contrast the color with a real light gray for the nonskid. Hopefully it'll look nice together.
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Oh and welcome aboard Early :welcome01:
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:sign0104: I think I was supposed to introduce myself somewhere... I will look around.
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Link was in the email I sent you upon activation.
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looks good rick! bet it feels good to finally have her bottom-side down
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It certainly does Aaron and thanks.
Now I need to get the inside ready and sprayed before the wasps take her over - they seem to be really active right now and I'm going to have a bunch of holes exposed for them to drop into and start a new nest.
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:bravo_2:
Great work Rick! It's looking fantastic!
Must feel great to have her keel down after all the work you have put in!
//Lars
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Thanks Lars. It is great to have her flipped right-side up.
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Great work Rick, I'll be happy if mine turns out even close to yours.
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Thanks Bobby - you'll do fine.
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Some progress around the rain :thundersm:
Made some standoffs out of some scrap 3/4" penske board that Scott sent me and 5min epoxied them to the inside of the transom.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1549.JPG)
Had to build up the CSM slowly - even with the board cut at angles, the 3/4oz CSM still doesn't like to traverse the corners :41:
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1550.JPG)
I put one on each side
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1553.JPG)
One of the uses is for the fuel filter - not sure which side I'll pull the fuel line through - still trying to make it so I don't puncture into the wood coring for anything
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1556.JPG)
Also started the fairing process of the inside
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1551.JPG)
Went through another quart today - $$$
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1554.JPG)
Maybe I'll need a couple more quarts
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1555.JPG)
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She is looking really good Rick! :sign0098:
I'm glad the weather cleared and you could get some work done.
//Lars
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Looking good Rick! Are you going to fabricate a hatch cover for the battery box? My casting deck is nearly the same design as yours and I will need figure something out eventually. I know I know...stick to the task at hand lol.
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Hi Hawg - my batteries will be in the console.
If you are talking about the big storage area in the 5th pic in front of the tank hatch, look at the 3rd pic down from the top and look behind the boat, just behind the trailer jack laying on the ground, there is the hatch to the storage area. The front is enclosed with a piece of mahogany.
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Man its been pretty dry on this side all summer, guess you guys have all the rain!
Water separator pad will give ya some room to get your hand in behind it too :great02:
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Man its been pretty dry on this side all summer, guess you guys have all the rain!
Seems like that is about to change for you guys? The remnants of Grace are above you now?
Water separator pad will give ya some room to get your hand in behind it too :great02:
I thought about the same thing - these filter/water bowl type are a pain to unscrew anyway. Maybe i don't know the trick? But feel free to re-use the idea on one of your rebuilds, lord knows I have re-used a few of your ideas already :93:
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Bought some more filler but with red hardener this time and spread it all around the boat. This is the 2nd and hopefully last coat. Burned up my Ryobi sander on this.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1557.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1558.JPG)
Bought a new Makita random orbital this morning and spent the day breaking it in.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1560.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1561.JPG)
Filled the cloth print on the hatch and also applied the fairing to the bottom of the transom.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1559.JPG)
After a little more sanding, hopefully I'll be ready to spray gelcoat next weekend. I'm starting to see lovebugs now though :41:
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Coming along nice Rick. I don't think love bugs would classify as non skid.
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Thanks JB - the lovebugs seem to love the smell of styrene and whatever else is in the gelcoat. Hopefully I can prep on Saturday and spray Sunday morning. We'll see if the weather hangs in there.
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Great progress Rick! Weather was nicer this weekend up here, but a bit warmer than the past few days. Haven't seen any love bugs up my way yet. Hopefully they will leave you alone long enough to get your gelcoat done.
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Yesterday I was distracted from the boat and partially dismantled some fencing that surrounds 3 sides of our home. It had a lattice on the top wrapped in PT pine and the pine was falling apart so it had to come off and we cut the posts down a foot and capped the posts with caps. That took four hours for the two portions I did, and it did me in for the day. The humidity was horrible even though the skies were overcast for the most part. I still have 4 sections left on the other side of the house to do and I'm finished.
Today I worked on the boat for a while and I think it is ready for the gelcoat on the inside and gunwale tops. Yesterday and today there have been a lot of storms off the coast and as I started to get ready to proceed to spray the wind started kicking up and the storms started coming ashore from the south so I packed it in.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/Weather_9-27-15.png) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=12978&title=weather-9-27-15&cat=500)
There is always next weekend.
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Sorry to hear about the weather. It always feels good to get a couple of house projects out of the way too.
Usually the +points from the wife are needed for other things... ;-)
We have a nice clear week here in Sweden, and slowly warming up towards the end of the week.
//Lars
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The radar looks worse today and will be like this for the next few days. Supposed to be back to normal by the weekend.
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:thundersm: Well at least its giving you time to plan everything out so that when the rain moves on it will be perfect.
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:laugh03:
Every time I get more time I think of something else I should be doing to her and it delays me more :roll:
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:laugh03:
Every time I get more time I think of something else I should be doing to her and it delays me more :roll:
Ain't that the truth!
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This weekend was a wash for spraying gelcoat.
Looked really beautiful this morning, went out, opened the area up to let the boat dry and within minutes it started pouring. :badday:
Later on I thought maybe I could at least spray the rod holder inserts, cleared an area and then it started pouring. :badday:
The wind has been calm to 20mph gusts and back so totally a wash.... maybe next weekend.
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I hope the weather picks up for you. I watched the news tonight. It is terrible what is happening on the east coast, especially South Carolina.
It is cooling off here in Sweden. Still nice sunny weather, bit brisk fall temps.
//Lars
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With some storms off the coast and heading toward us I was determined to spray something today. So at 9am I sprayed the rod holder inserts
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1562.JPG)
Have some pin holes to deal with so I'm not done with them - hard to see in the pics
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1563.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1564.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1565.JPG)
Also sprayed the doors for the corner cabinets
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1566.JPG)
And sprayed the inside of the console door
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1567.JPG)
Got a couple leaves and a bug but no plastic stuck to them or lovebugs :thumleft:
Hopefully I can spray the liner tomorrow. It's raining now.
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Beauty :tu4:
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Nice job Rick. What is your sanding schedule?
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Thanks guys - I was hoping not to have to sand :roll:
But I think I'll have to rough up the pinhole areas and lay in some bondo and fair, lightly sand the spots that are fine and then respray. Good thing I tinted a gallon of gelcoat :thumleft:
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Great Job Rick! :salut2:
It is too cold here now for gelcoat jobs...
Great to see your progress!
//Lars
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Thanks Lars.
The morning started out looking like it was going to rain and I needed to let the boat dry out before I could spray, so I decided to work on the rod inserts.
Can you say pinholes!! Not sure why I can't see them before I gelcoat :roll:
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1569.JPG)
The skys cleared and the wind picked up so I couldn't spray the liner :pale:
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You are doing a fantastic job! :thumleft:
I agree, it really sucks to have pin holes, I wouldn't want it either.
Your boat is going to be so nice when done.
I hope the weather stabilizes for you. I thought Florida was the Sunshine State!
We know what we have too look forward too...
The central heating system is turned on over here...
//Lars
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We're starting to dip into the 60s at night here - was nice walking the dog this morning. Didn't break a sweat once I got past the 1.25mile mark like I have for the past 4 months - fall may have arrived :93:
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Weather just is not cooperating with you at all. I noticed it has been cooling off at night so maybe the rain will becoming less often so you can get some work done. Its driving me nuts that I just bought the Aquasport and now its setting in the yard while I'm 4000 miles away but at least I am making plans for upgrades when I return.
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Yeah that's the problem when you're working under a tarp and you need to spray something - the weather dictates when you can and can't work.
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So, I saw this on another site:
Plastic tanks have a different set of mounting and installation requirements than metal. If mounted in an enclosed area, the enclosure has to be vented with a plastic tank, with a metal one they don't. Plastic is permeable by fuel vapor, aluminum is not. Spaces below deck are very difficult to vent with inlets and outlets, without flooding them. Plastic tanks expand considerably and you have to leave expansion space around them, which makes them difficult to mount. Metal tanks have solid/rigid mounts and you can have the tabs welded wherever you need them to be. With plastic you are pretty much limited to stock sizes, but aluminum can be custom built to exactly fit the space. And plastic tanks really aren't much cheaper than a custom aluminum. For instance speedytanks.com can build almost any custom tank for about $10 a gallon.
I hadn't heard of the venting requirement. :?:
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Yea ive got a "vent" in my coffin that goes up into the console, its just a big hole with a rigging flange over it to keep water out. You can definitely smell it a lil bit if the tank is full and you haven't opened the console door in a while. Scared me the first time haha!... Ive been meaning to put a couple vents in the console but haven't gotten around to finding any yet...
You can see it between the batteries here
(http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/yy167/dirtwheelsfl/Snapbucket/C8971B15-2CAA-407D-B007-870DC823FF14_zpsrv1gpbcj.jpg) (http://s788.photobucket.com/user/dirtwheelsfl/media/Snapbucket/C8971B15-2CAA-407D-B007-870DC823FF14_zpsrv1gpbcj.jpg.html)
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Maybe you can connect a hose to that "pipe" and connect it to the side of the console?
I read both of these and they don't mention anything about venting the area:
http://www.uscgboating.org/assets/1/AssetManager/ABYC.1002.01.pdf
https://law.resource.org/pub/us/cfr/ibr/001/abyc.H-24.1993.pdf
I agree that it might be a good idea but never read a requirement.
Maybe the two rigging holes (the white raised rings in the tank cover) will suffice?
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1551.JPG)
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I was unaware of that too. I would think your rigging holes would do the job as long as they communicate with your tank compartment. I'll probably need to do something similar to Chris's vent.
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Rick, congrats on owning the worlds first $100,000 17ft boat:)
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Thanks - I don't think I spent that much - maybe I'm getting close :confused1:
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I was unaware of that too. I would think your rigging holes would do the job as long as they communicate with your tank compartment. I'll probably need to do something similar to Chris's vent.
My console needs some vents anyhow, starting to get a lil mildew in there. Thinking they'll do double duty and get the fuel smell out too...
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I was unaware of that too. I would think your rigging holes would do the job as long as they communicate with your tank compartment. I'll probably need to do something similar to Chris's vent.
My console needs some vents anyhow, starting to get a lil mildew in there. Thinking they'll do double duty and get the fuel smell out too...
Any concerns with venting gas fumes to the space where the batteries and charger are?
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Oh boy :c002:
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Perko makes 3x3 vents
Perko 0335003DP
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Its just a faint ambient smell that i get in the console when the console has been sealed shut for awhile. Permeability is the operative word, i am surprised how much those poly tanks let thru as far as smell though. Theres been plenty of things lit underneath there on windy days! :drunken:
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:06:
Maybe those 3x3 vents would help.
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I know I don't want any gas fumes near any electronics!!
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A little progress - we have a high north of us now so there was a little wind from the NE. My house blocks most of it - had to spray in between the wind
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1571.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1570.JPG)
A lot of the cap is going to be non-skid but I wanted to get a coat of gelcoat on it anyway
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1573.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1572.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1574.JPG)
Most of the casting deck will be non-skid
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1575.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1576.JPG)
So this is the 10ft look to you - what do I see - PIN HOLES :41:
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Another thing I notice is that the stainless screws I ordered (McMasters) for connecting the cap to the hull are rusting and I see rust stains running down the hull a little bit. I guess I need to get better quality screws?
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Looks good from where I'm sitting, Rick! Is that straight gelcoat? Or are you mixing it with Duratec?
As far as your rusting screws...I wish I had a good source. Most of them these days are low grade 18-8 or 304 from China. Look for 316. It is more rust-resistant, as long as it is in fact 316.
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50-50 Gel and Duratec. I am amazed at the pinholes that appear that I could not see before. I think that I can eventually fill them if I add a few more coats.
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Looking good.
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Looking good! Great progress!
//Lars
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Scruffed it all back up with 150 today, will fill the pinholes and spray again next weekend.
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Pretty mundane progress this weekend - filling pinholes. Hopefully have the last coat of filler on it now.
Was too windy to spray this weekend anyway.
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In between sandings I figure I should mark and drill the holes for the rod holders. The original rod holders were really a PITA - any bump and one end of your rods were on the deck. These should work - Attwood 3 rod inserts - you can put handle or tip in the foam.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1577.JPG)
3 in each rod liner insert
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1578.JPG)
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Looking good as always Rick! Where did you get the rod holders from?
//Lars
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Thanks Lars. Not sure where I bought them, somewhere online a couple years ago. It does feel good to be ready to start mounting some stuff from the goody pile.
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:thumleft:
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Rick, she's looking real good! My hats off to you! :nSalute:
How thick are you putting the gel on? I wonder if it isn't getting to off-gas properly?
Anyway, looking sweet. :you_rock:
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Thanks guys.
There were definitely pin holes that I couldn't see - have to have the light angle just right. I think the pinholes were there originally and when I sanded everything down it exposed them. I hope I have them all now.
I'm putting probably 10 mils down - I haven't stuck the gauge in it yet.
This weekend, if the wind lays down, it's time to spray.
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Rick, fingers are crossed in Sweden for good weather this weekend. I'm driving up north tomorrow for work. I hope to take some pictures.
//Lars
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RickK:
You have gone a long way on the proyect since the last time I checked.
By the way, She is coming up great.
Awsome job :cool2:
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Thanks JX. I have some vacation time coming up and hope to get it done in that timeframe. It's amazing what a 8-12 hr day will allow you to get done and times that by 21 days :weehee:
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Ok, so I'm bored waiting for the wind to lay down so I can spray. I went up with a buddy to pick up his trailer that was being repaired 1.5 hours north. Got back around noon and started this futzing around.
I started pre-drilling some stuff on the console - Started with the vents
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1579.JPG)
Lines up nicely (the holes above the vent are for mounting the windshield)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1580.JPG)
Drilled some holes to help vent the console
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1581.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1582.JPG)
In Florida we have a wasp problem so I cut some screen to fit behind the plate
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1583.JPG)
Here is the part Number if anyone needs one - I will mount one on each side of the console
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1584.JPG)
I also pre-drilled and loosely mounted the fire extinguisher in the front cabinet of the console
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1585.JPG)
The holes you see in the back of the cabinet are for the Stereo amp, which will be mounted inside the console on the back of the cabinet wall
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1586.JPG)
Located where the PowerPole pump will go and predilled - I rebuilt the pump and the pole yesterday.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1587.JPG)
I also started pre-drilling all the latches for the seat
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1588.JPG)
Here are the front latches and I also pre-drilled the speaker screws
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1590.JPG)
The last thing I did was pre-drill the pole holders that will mount on both sides of the console (hard to see the 4 screw holes)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1589.JPG)
You might ask why I just don't mount them - I need to spray the console, the rod inserts and the hull cap and liner sides one last time before I can do this. I'm bored.
Oh, I forget to mention that I have everything sanded down now (have to lightly scruff what I did on the console to remove the pencil) and ready for spraying gelcoat and also cut the speaker holes in the aft part of the liner on both sides for the rear speakers.
Happy Thanksgiving!!
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Looking good, Rick. Just out of curiosity, why did you drill the array of holes for the vent instead of one larger hole?
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Just out of curiosity, why did you drill the array of holes for the vent instead of one larger hole?
Ditto :think1:
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Don't forget to countersink!!
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Looking good, Rick. Just out of curiosity, why did you drill the array of holes for the vent instead of one larger hole?
Thanks Craig, When I looked at the vent plate and saw all the flat metal between the vent slots I figured that the only places that would allow air through is the slots themselves. Are you thinking that a bigger hole might help circulation? It's still not too late to cut a big hole.
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Don't forget to countersink!!
Hi Chris, everything I am mounting is surface mount and either already has a countersunk hole or I'm using pan head screws, like on the vent and speakers.
Thanks for the reminder though, keeps me on my toes.
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Don't forget to countersink!!
Hi Chris, everything I am mounting is surface mount and either already has a countersunk hole or I'm using pan head screws, like on the vent and speakers.
Thanks for the reminder though, keeps me on my toes.
i think what chris means is countersink the holes you drilled to keep gelcoat from chipping/cracking when screwing in hardware
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I do believe that a bigger hole will improve ventilation/circulation I would at least connect the holes on each row to match each slot.
And I believe Chris was referring to countersinking the holes to prevent chipping/cracking the gelcoat when you put the screws in, not necessarily countersinking the screws themselves.
Keep up the good work! I'm on vacation this week, but I'm having a little trouble getting motivated...glad to see you getting something done :01_37:.
Edit: sorry, Aaron beat me to it. Scary that our words are so similar!
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Yup exactly^
You don't want threads going thru the gelcoat, just the glass...
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Chris, Aaron and Craig - I hadn't thought about chipping as the screws went in - thanks for the advice. I have a countersink bit ready for the task and assume I only have to hit it a little :nSalute:
Craig - I guess the smart thing would be to just cut out the entire square - since I have the screen behind the plate it doesn't matter. Not that the console will be air tight but the only circulation will mostly be across the console at the top - a bigger hole should certainly help.
I took this week off too - have to make the best of it. It's been 3 years for me this month. :shocked:
Happy Thanksgiving!!
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Another thing I notice is that the stainless screws I ordered (McMasters) for connecting the cap to the hull are rusting and I see rust stains running down the hull a little bit. I guess I need to get better quality screws?
3 years... Well Rick, it's about the journey, not the destination.. You know that or you would have quit long ago. Really nice work!
For screws, check out Boltdepot.com, any time I need more then a dozen of anything fastener related it is cheaper for me to order from them then to get them form any local source. Sad in a way... In the end, you really want chrome plated stainless.. Good luck on the hunt!
And Happy Thanksgiving!!
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I took this week off too - have to make the best of it. It's been 3 years for me this month. :shocked:
Happy Thanksgiving!!
Happy Thanksgiving...and Happy Anniversary, too!
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Good to see you around here Dave - I have missed your advice. And thanks for the bolt suggestion - I have been trying to buy 316 but have not seen chrome plated stainless "anything". Guess I have to look harder - I usually go through McMaster-Carr but I'll peek into the Boltdepot - thx.
Before I left for "Turkey and Ham heaven" at my sisters house I did go out and cut the big square out of the center of the vents and also counter sunk the holes a bit. Pix to follow but I think you guys can imagine what I'm talking about.
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A little blurry - sorry.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1592.JPG)
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A late Happy Thanksgiving from Sweden. We are celebrating with Turkey and fixings today, since we worked Thursday and Friday.
Your boat is looking good Rick!
Weather here in Sweden has gone from very good for November to typical November... 42 degrees and raining today...
//Lars
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The wind is still kicking butt here :41:
I was able to sand and spray paint the windshield frame this morning in between blasts of wind.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1596.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1597.JPG)
I bought a Perko LED all-around light to replace the incandescent one I had - it came with a real short 3-conductor wire that I needed to splice into. I bought some bilge 3 conductor wire thinking it was about the same size but it was heavier. I staggered the butt splices (adhesive/heat shrink type) so the splice area would be about the size of the new wire and then I covered it with heat shrink. The light is different in that you can turn on only the front or front and back.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1598.JPG)
It fit perfectly in the existing holes - "in use" position
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1599.JPG)
"stored" position - there will be a little cushion glued to the windshield glass where the light would touch, to avoid it breaking the glass.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1601.JPG)
Here is the back side of the windshield and the wiring is exposed
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1603.JPG)
So here is my dilemma - what to do with the wire. Options 1) leave as is 2) paint it with the same color used on the frame and make it disappear 3) buy some black heat shrink and heat shrink the entire length. What would you do?
Yesterday and last weekend I ditz'd around on the hull while the wind was blowing.
I cut the rear speaker holes in the liner
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1605.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1606.JPG)
The repair above the hole was where the Power Pole switch was (the pump was mounted, exposed, right below it - now it will be inside the console) and I don't need it here anymore, a new one is being mounted on the console. I also filled a hole above on the top of the cap where the GPS antenna was.
I also installed the scupper flaps during my boredom. I am going to pick up some 4200 today and then install the garboard plug.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1604.JPG)
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So here is my dilemma - what to do with the wire. Options 1) leave as is 2) paint it with the same color used on the frame and make it disappear 3) buy some black heat shrink and heat shrink the entire length. What would you do?
http://www.delcity.net/store/UV-Resistant-High!Temp-Split-Loom/p_807069.h_807106.t_1.r_IF1003?mkwid=sJJppdCKW&crid=38094426869&mp_kw=&mp_mt=&gclid=CKf51pnCyMkCFYkdgQodXcMCPg
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I wouldn't paint the wire. It will eventually chip and flake off and look like crap. The split loom that CB posted might work, but from my limited experience the plastic split loom stuff does not like to stay closed when in a tight radius. Not sure how tight your bends are, so I don't know if that would be an issue for you. I would look at the braided loom, also sold by Del City. The only thing I'm not sure of is the UV resistance of it.
Boat's looking good, btw!
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Decided on the heat shrink. Slid it over the majority of the wire
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1607.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1608.JPG)
Used my trusty Harbor Freight heat gun to shrink it up
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1609.JPG)
Blends in better now.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1611.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1610.JPG)
Mixed up and colored a gallon of unwaxed gelcoat and hopefully will get a morning without wind over the next couple days.
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What about putting some holes in the end of the box tubing and then snake in the wire down through the window frame then covering the holes with solid grommets? With all the effort you going through to make this a killer rebuild how much more time would that really take? Might that be a good windy day project?
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Good idea Dave but I don't think it'll fit inside the tubing.
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Ok, no more wind delays :danceSm:
I went to Home Depot and bought some 1/2" PVC and some fittings and, with the help of my wife, built the framework for a spray booth.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1613.JPG)
I also bought some heavy visqueen and, using contact cement and the help of my wife, started covering the frame
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1614.JPG)
The wind here today was easy 30 mph gusts, so I had to start weighing it down with cinder blocks as I covered it
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1615.JPG)
Closed in one end - you can see the contact cement on the frame and visqueen
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1616.JPG)
It's a nice size booth. 10Wx10Dx8H. Still have to work around the wind to spray the boat but at least I can get the other things sprayed
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1618.JPG)
We covered the other end and then we walked it out to beside the 230. I immediately put 6 cinder blocks on the framework to keep it down. We put a 18" over lap on the door into the booth.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1619.JPG)
Came out pretty nice - should have built it a month ago
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1620.JPG)
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Good job, Rick :salut2:. And your wife can use it as a greenhouse when you are done!
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Great work with the spray booth Rick! :thumleft:
Weather looks nice!
I could almost launch my boat again. It has been mid 50's here in Sweden for a week now, and the warm weather continues.
I have had problems uploading pictures. Am I doing something wrong? Has anything changed?
//Lars
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Hi Lars, hopefully in the morning I will use the booth and keep using it until I'm done with everything that will fit in there.
50s in Sweden in the end of December? :c029:
Are you trying to upload more than 3 pics at a time? If so I have seen this problem too. I asked the Service provider to reboot the server - maybe he didn't?
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I will keep my fingers crossed you will get good weather for your painting sessions!
I know, 50s in December has happened, but normally we have high 20's here where we live. Sweden is a very long country and if you go north, you will after 10 hour drive be in winter wonderland.
I'm enjoying the weather... Keeps my electric bill low...
Will try to upload 2 pics and see if it works out better.
Thanks for the info, great work on your part as always! :salut2:
//Lars
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Went out at 830 and put the rod inserts into booth
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1621.JPG)
And a little bit later the finished inserts - there is plenty of shine - hard to see any in the pic.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1622.JPG)
I stripped down the gun and cleaned it and then came out and what did I find on the outside of the entryway into the booth? Lovebugs!! Luckily they didn't get inside and get stuck in the gelcoat like this time last year. Must be the styrene they are attracted to? There were none before I sprayed.
Now I wait until the gelcoat kicks and then take them out and bring in the next batch. Wind is blowing around 10+ right now - outside the booth. ;-)
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Door to console and little cabinet doors - still have to spray the inside of them.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1627.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1628.JPG)
Seat for front of console - has a little orange peel
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1626.JPG)
Finally the console
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1625.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1623.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1624.JPG)
Getting pretty warm in the booth now and it's only 1pm.
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Went out and sprayed a few pieces and let them cook for a while and worked on the console for a while. It was fun taking boxes off the workbench and emptying them for a change.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1629.JPG)
On the starboard side of the console besides the typical teleflex tach and fuel gauge, I have a 24V battery gauge to the right and the Powerpole up/down switch. Below them is the on/off for the trolling motor batteries
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1630.JPG)
To port I have a switch bank, below that is a 12V battery gauge for the starting/house battery and the on/off switch for that battery is below. The empty hole to the right is for the ignition switch.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1631.JPG)
I mounted the windshield and ended up knurling (Edit: I meant "galling") two of the bolts. :41: I will have to cut them off tomorrow :73:
I'll spray some more tomorrow and mount what I can, like the speakers , rod holders and other stuff on the console
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1632.JPG)
Been blowing like 10-15 mph most of the day.
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A while ago I ask Randy (Druggers Welding) to build a seat for my 170 and to work on it in between his regular work. I got some texts today from him saying it is coming along fine - what do you think?
Gave him free rein on design with the exceptions that I asked him for a seat (20" seat height), not a leaning bench and that it should have a flip back and storage under the flip-up seat. The width is 30" between legs. The result you see is just tacked together right now. He'll be ready to get the cushions made next week or the week after.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/Seat1.jpeg)
The top is the seat where the cushion will be (duh) and the round part is the aft side - the backrest toward the aft of the boat.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/Seat2.jpeg)
This shows the backrest toward the console
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/Seat3.jpeg)
The backrest pivot
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/seat4.jpeg)
I would say that Randy and his partner definitely have it going for them.
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So whats left on the checklist before splash??!
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Hi Chris,
I still have to: (this is actually good to write it down)
1) gelcoat the cap and liner sides - ready if the wind lays down to under 10mph in blasts - from the south is bad for me, north is good since my shop blocks the north wind
2) after gelcoat install front LED NAV light and cleat and aft cleats
3) non-skid a lot of the boat - sole, casting deck, cap - you know that takes time to get the tape right
4) finish installing stuff in the console on windy days
5) install the tank and connect hoses in and outbound - don't forget the wiring to the fuel gauge. I have put this off so I could do it and install the tank lid right after the tank install so no crap blows into the tank area. I am going to be spraying the edges of the tank lid tomorrow so it'll be ready to be installed soon.
6) cut, lam and install the "keeper board" across the fuel tank - will use Plascore since I have some left
7) pull the rigging and wire/fuel lines through the pipes - fore and aft - has to happen after the tank is in.
8) connect wiring to lugs up front for the trolling motor and install the quick connect for the trolling motor, wire to the lugs up front
9) install rod inserts into the liner - they are ready to go now with rod storage fixtures installed today in them
10) move console into boat (that's going to take a couple people) and then glass it onto the fuel tank cover
11) install the hinges on the hatches and the latches on the back hatch
12) hang the jackplate, the spacer, the power pole adapter and the engine
13) rig everything on the engine (hope I still have the pictures LOL)
14) rig everything I didn't do in advance in the console and bleed the power pole and the hydraulic steering
15) install the new seat
BTW - I guess I could launch it tomorrow, just to do so, she'll float (knocking on wood ;-) )
So I have a few things to do still. I'm on vacation 'til Jan 4th so I'll make a big dent in the boat portion.
After all that I need to purchase and install the trolling motor - cabling will already be installed for it.
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Looking good Rick, and that seat looks fantastic! Glad to see Randy is still at it and actually moved to a shop instead of his garage. Tell him I said hi.
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Some more progress, focused on the console since the wind was strong again. For people that haven't fitted out their console yet, add another day or two to the schedule to get it all done - takes more time than you'd think :roll:
Installed the stereo and compass - also drilled the holes for the hydraulic steering station
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1633.JPG)
The front speakers
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1634.JPG)
Amp, terminal blocks and Blue Seas fuse panel
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1635.JPG)
Rod holders on each side
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1636.JPG)
Merry Christmas!!
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Nice Rick! Must be nice to actually add stuff to the console! And Merry Christmas to you too!
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I need to make up a tiny little batch of epoxy and coat the wood that you see in the hole for the Seastar steering and where I cut in the access hole for the new Garmin (a 1 " hole I drilled per Garmin and is where the coiled wire is coming down the windshield) which you can't see. It's hard to mix so little though....
I also need to repaint the upper part of the Seastar unit - not sure what to use to wipe it down prior to, and after sanding, to ensure no leftover oil, otherwise I end up with a wrinkle finish due to the oil (like what is on it right now). I will try with Acetone but maybe there is better? Mineral spirits?
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I was just looking at the list of "to do's" and one thing I didn't see was grinding :woohoo:
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Looks awesome Rick...
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thanks man
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Looking great Rick! I'm impressed for your level of detail!
Even the inside of the console looks great! Merry Christmas! From Sweden.
//Lars
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Thanks Lars :nSalute:
I fear my mind is going though - I fitted and drilled for my fire extinguisher not long ago and now that it is time to mount it, I'll be darned if I can't find it :confused1:
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I hate when that happens...
One good way to find it, is to go buy a new one... Usually the first one appears out of nowhere...
Great work!
:thumleft:
//Lars
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:laugh03: :s_laugh: You are so right!!
I found it - I need to find a label that says "Fire Extinguisher" inside.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1637.JPG)
Sanded, painted and mounted the helm station
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1638.JPG)
Started running battery cables - ran wire hangers of different sizes around the top of the toe kick - perfect spot for it - man that 2/0 is tough stuff to pull. I laid the portions that are going to the batteries loose on the toekick for the time being.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1639.JPG)
Rebuilt the powerpole pump
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1640.JPG)
2awg to the trolling battery switch and a 60A CB on the way to the front of the boat. I will connect the forward going cables later.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1641.JPG)
2/0 to the main battery switch - the portion going to the aft of the boat will be put in later and will lay across the top of the storage cabinet to the left - hanger already in place for it. I can tell I have bent in too many unaccustomed ways today :roll:
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1642.JPG)
Another look at the PP pump area. The wire hangers seem large but will quickly fill when I add 2/0 in them. Right to the front of the PP pump is where everything goes under the sole on that side so there will be cables coming from the front and back of the console to that area.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1643.JPG)
Hope everyone had a nice Christmas - I know I did with my daughters and grand kids around.
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Great work Rick! I just got caught up on your thread. Looking good!
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Great progress Rick!
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Thanks Craig!!
I took a break from the console while I wait for some more wire although I did get the stereo to amp wires done. I also ordered some loom.
I worked on the hatches and got the edges ready for spray and then masked them off. Then I will re-mask and get them ready for gelcoat non-skid - I will take a bunch of pics of that process so I can add it to the original non-skid topic in the resources forum.
New bilge hatch:
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1646.JPG)
New front hatch:
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1644.JPG)
Second from front hatch (the original):
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1647.JPG)
The new hatch over the fuel tank
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1648.JPG)
I took them all to the spray booth and just as the sun was starting to set (and the temp in the booth went down) I sprayed them and other parts and will leave them in there all night. I peeked in there and they looked good. Hopefully tomorrow I will get a few of them non-skid'd unless there is no wind and I'll be spraying the boat cap and liner.
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Looking forward to seeing the progress on the non skid. Eventually I will get to that point.
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Hey Rick,
Looking fantastic! One thing you may want to reconsider is putting the fire extinguisher mounted vertically. One good hit on a wake or steady pound and she is coming out of there. Those plastic latches are designed to hold it in place with the collar supported.
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Thanks Farley,
I agree, I wish I could find a metal clasp type hanger. At least it'll be behind a door.
Getting closer....
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Can't believe I read the whole thing ! Looks awesome Rick you've done some pretty neat stuff I hadn't thought of!
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Thanks Levi!! I have done so many things on this rebuild, all for the first time, that I can't remember a lot of them - that's what the documentation is for - to help me remember and hopefully someone can learn from it.
Anyway, I sprayed the edges enough to build up some gelcoat and then I took the tape/paper off and sanded the lip down that was created by the gelcoat on the top and scruffed the edges one last time. Then I shot a light coat of gelcoat on the edges without any masking.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1649.JPG)
The edges are looking good. You can see some pinholes in the field of the hatch - that will be covered by the non-skid
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1651.JPG)
I tried to fit the latches into the bilge holes and the gelcoat had made them too tight so I spent some time carefully grinding with a dremel until they fit again. A little caulking and it'll be right.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1650.JPG)
I masked off the edges with one layer of tape and then set whatever hardware was to be installed in place to give me an idea of where I needed to tape and what edge I wanted on them
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1652.JPG)
And then masked, marked and trimmed
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1654.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1655.JPG)
And then you repeat with a second layer - a different color if you can. I'll explain the process later
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1656.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1658.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1659.JPG)
I mixed and colored up some waxed gelcoat today and will use that as the second coat after the non-skid is applied. I'll waste a couple roller sleeves and pan liners to do the process on just the bilge hatch to make sure I like the color I mixed up.
Love bugs are definitely here now :a0002: Not sure if I stirred them up with my spraying or what.
Hope everyone has a safe and GREAT New Year celebration tonight.
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Happy New Year from Sweden!
Great work Rick!
Looks awesome!
:thumleft:
//Lars
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Thanks Lars!! Happy New Year to you too. Is the weather back to normal there yet? I heard the UK is getting buried in rain.
So this morning I started applying non-skid and the items you need after everything is taped off is some glass bead (not bubbles), a small mixing cup, some household screen and a strong rubber band.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1660.JPG)
You make the small cup into a bead shaker of sorts
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1661.JPG)
You need a 1/4" nap roller sleeve to roll the base coat and the top coat of gelcoat. You don't want to lay too thick of a base coat otherwise the bead will sink into it and disappear and you don't want too heavy a top coat or it'll smooth out the bead and you'll end up without non-skid. Don't ask how I know that :73:
Roll out the areas evenly, making sure to coat part of the tape so you know you got to the edge
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1662.JPG)
Then grab the shaker and start shaking even coats of bead on the areas, it doesn't hurt to overcoat it because you'll sweep that off later
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1663.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1664.JPG)
Let the gelcoat kick - since I used non-waxed for the base coat I put plastic over everything to seal off the air so it could kick - and then take a soft hand brush and dustpan and sweep off the excess bead into the dustpan and then pour back into the shaker. I used two 10 oz shakers and then swept back up 12 ounces, so you use just a little bead. You can also lightly coat the areas with bead for a lighter non-skid.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1665.JPG)
Sweep off the excess bead and peel one layer of tape off
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1666.JPG)
Now, using a 1/4" nap roller, lightly cover the areas - I mixed 6oz of gelcoat and it was barely enough to cover everything - nice light coat
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1667.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1669.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1668.JPG)
Let the top coat start to kick and then peel off the last layer of tape. I make sure that I pull it off so the tape is pulling away from the bead edge - take your time.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1670.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1671.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1672.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1673.JPG)
Not too shabby and the gray color I mixed up matches well IMO.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1674.JPG)
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Dang, Rick, that looks awesome! One question for you...why do you cover the base coat with plastic? Don't you want it to be tacky for the next coat?
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Rick I LOVE the twin layers of tape trick! I did this same process on my Mako's nonskid but I only used the one layer of tape which meant I had to re-tape and that's a TOTAL PITA.
I used this nonskid additive that soaked up the paint after you apply it so that as it wears it doesn't discolor like using the grit, sand or other additives came out pretty sweet. same process though roll a layer of paint, sprinkle with additive then recoat once it set.
Where'd you get the glass bead and what was the cost?
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Thanks guys - it's all in the prep as they say.
Craig - if you think about it, the gelcoat base coat is totally covered with bead so I want that to kick so it grips the bead, that's why I covered it with plastic for a while. I needed it hard enough so that I could sweep off the extra bead without screwing it up. It still hadn't kicked totally (the gelcoat in the tray was still not hard) when I swept and pulled the first layer of tape off. The top coat only sticks to the top of the bead and the topcoat has wax so it kicked and totally sealed the unwaxed so it could cure too.
Levi - I got it at Fiberlay and it wasn't much - I don't remember even though I got it Wednesday - I didn't look at the bill breakdown. The guy that used to own the company that Fiberlay bought (Fiberglass Services of Sarasota) was the person who taught me how to do the non-skid. I really like the results and I can guarantee you that you don't want to fall on this non-skid.
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Got a little more done today
Installed the cabinet door in the console - had to grind the bottom to compensate for the added thickness from gelcoat. Fits nice now.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1675.JPG)
Lots of room - Farley I did check to see if the extinguisher will fit upright and it will. Funny how the colors change even though it's the same color gelcoat.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1676.JPG)
I made the cabinet for this tote bag of tools - maybe I can fit it and the extinguisher vertically, we'll see.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1677.JPG)
I also mounted the binnacle controls and I see that I have a slight gap in the corners.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1678.JPG)
So I have a question for you guys. I have been thinking about buying some cork and making my own gaskets for under my cleats, binnacle, nav light and other things. I would prefer to use cork rather than silicone, I just don't know how it will hold up. Any ideas?
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Where'd you get the glass bead and what was the cost?
I looked at the bill today and it was $10/qt. I still have 3/4 of a qt after doing the 3 hatches - goes a long way.
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Rick, is there a certain size of the glass beads that you used?
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I think the last time I did this (2000) I remember that I had a choice of different size beads but this time they only offered one size. I remember getting some bigger beads last time and it was too aggressive. The size they offer this time seem to be the perfect size. And remember, the non-skid feeling is really controlled by the top coat - too heavy and you have no non-skid. So you have to control how much gelcoat you mix at a time for the top coat so you don't get tempted to empty the tray and end up with it too heavy.
-
Thanks Rick :thumleft:
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Received a pic from Randy tonight - the seats ready for pickup - getting it tomorrow :93:
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/Seat5.jpeg)
I'm taking the console seat to him tomorrow to get the same guy to make some cushions/pads for it.
-
Hello Rick!
I'm very jealous of the seat!!! :thumleft:
Awesome! I would love to have a seat like that in my boat!
It is - 8 degrees F here... I'm spending my time inside...
//Lars
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Maybe you pick one up on your next trip - it's relatively small and weighs maybe 35-40 lbs. Thanks though :nSalute:
That weather is nice to visit in but I guess you try to entertain yourself inside a lot if you live there. Stay warm my friend (sounds like a beer commercial ;-) )
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I picked up the seat today - SWEET.
I also took the console seat so the upholsterer could measure and I noticed a few runs in the gelcoat that need to be dealt with :73:
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Sweet seat Rick!
-
That looks awesome!
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Looks great Rick!
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Thanks guys :nSalute:
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Thanks Rick,
Seat really looks great. Can't wait to see it installed. We are staying warm, but it's still cold...
I will put some long johns on today and go for a walk.
Burning wood in our fireplace helps a lot. It's a cast iron stove, and it pretty much heats the whole house.
//Lars
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We had some pretty strong winds here yesterday as 2 fronts came through .... my spray booth exploded apart :confused1:
Best I can figure is the "T"s I used on the bottom pipe were the culprit. I added another fitting on the side of the Ts to make it have a perpendicular connection so I could put a pipe across the booth at the bottom to hold the dome shape of the booth. I was hoping my fitting would hold - I used a dremel to contour the fitting to fit the side of the T, roughed up the side of the T, used a cleaner to soften the plastic and then glued the fitting to the side. I even put 2 screws on the fitting into the T to help.... guess it didn't. When I glued the cross pipe I put a temporary screw in it to help hold it until it dried. I will get a better look this morning.
This is what I tried to make - Home Depot didn't have this - they focus on water, this is more furniture stuff.
(http://cdn1.bigcommerce.com/n-63unu/1g4q84y/products/428/images/1462/4_way_pvc_fitting_front_white__62888.1437592866.451.416.jpg?c=2)
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A nice cork gasket on the binacle would look good! What would you use to keep it from drying out?
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Hi Dave,
I bought a 3'x3'x.125" sheet of rubber instead - I'll see how that goes. Need to find a leather punch set I guess - off to my toy store - Harbor Freight :laugh03:
-
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1679.JPG)
Just like I thought - failure at my homemade connection
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1680.JPG)
Oh well, live and learn - its all cut up and in the trash. I salvaged 5 10ft lengths of pipe.
I ordered some proper fittings and I think I'll make a half size booth - 5d x 10w x 8h - should be plenty for what little I have left to spray (besides the liner of the boat).
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I'm sorry. That was a nice spray booth.
I hope you can rebuild.
//Lars
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Had 4 tornadoes go through our county and the one to our north, at 3 AM this morning :shocked:
One touched down about 10 miles west of where I live that took the roof off a large condo building and then it lifted and passed a couple miles north of us and then touched down again and destroyed some stuff and killed two people further north. Wow - weird weather - El Nino is blamed (warming of eastern pacific that feeds more moisture into the jet stream and that causes weird stuff like this).
The east coast of Florida is all under tornado watches now.
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The weather is weird, I totally agree. It's frozen solid here... We will have this chill for another 5-6 days.
Tornadoes scare the holy crap out of me.
I'm glad to hear you are safe.
Do you know of a company in the US, where I can buy a cover for my center console?
My boat is a 1981 model, and would it be possible that someone could make me a cover just knowing the year and make of the boat?
We are going to the Chicago area in April, I could have the cover sent to my brother in laws house.
Just wondering.
//Lars
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Ahem... I'm sure you have some epoxy and biaxial scraps laying around to really make that booth a tough motha haha. I want to come check out your paint setup when I come down to get my tower.
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I've been ditzing around on the boat while I await a windless day.
Ordered some 1/8"high density rubber and started making gaskets - for the cleats, the gunwale rod holders, the Nav light housing and the binnacle. Stuff cuts like a dream. I have 3/4s of what I ordered left over :oops: I'll find some use for it - like maybe around the edge of the console rail where the front seat sits on it?
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1683.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1682.JPG)
Re-mounted the fire extinguisher per advice
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1684.JPG)
Been rigging and wiring the console - I think I am about done - except for the cables that will run to the back of the boat. I will pull them after I spray the inside of the boat and connect after I set the console.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1685.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1686.JPG)
I will do the final tidy on the wiring as I run things to the back.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1687.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1688.JPG)
I set the seat in the boat to mark where it will sit and mark the holes so I can drill, fill and add inserts. As you can see I'm back to a green tarp again. :roll:
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1681.JPG)
Today was a gorgeous day for everything but spraying. Someday...
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Looks good Rick. Beautiful weather the past couple of days, but breezy like you say. Hang in there, eventually it will calm down...probably around love bug season.
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Really like the seat Rick :thumleft:
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Great progress Rick! :nSalute:
Spring is slowly arriving here in Sweden.
I'm sure I have to wait another month or so before it is boating season again.
//Lars
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Man was the wind howling this weekend :73:
Got a little done on the boat. I wasn't happy with the way the battery trays mounted on the hatch so I filled the holes with epoxy, ground it flush and then lam'd a layer of 1708 over the raised area.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1689.JPG)
I sanded it down and then drilled holes to mount the trays.
I over-drilled holes where the seat will mount and filled them with thickened epoxy. Hard to see but there are 3 holes on each side.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1690.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1691.JPG)
I ground the holes flush and then lam'd a piece of 1708 the size of the base onto each spot
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1692.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1693.JPG)
I ground the areas down and covered the areas with filler. (I put the tank in the cradle and put the hatch cover over it
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1694.JPG)
Sanded them down and made sure I have the measurements so I can find the spots later after gelcoat.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1695.JPG)
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Progress! Looking good Rick. Do you have an estimated launch date yet?
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Thanks Craig - no launch date set. The real work begins once I get the liner sprayed.
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Rick with the way plate tectonics and coriolis effect work those measurements are gonna move.... Why not set the leaning post in place then drill SHALLOW pilot holes that will show up in a big way when you paint the deck? Just a though, after losing too many bench marks to the aforementioned effects in addition to barley and malt... :great02: :great02:
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Thanks Dave, I'll haul it back out and mark with a drill tip - good idea.
The wind is still blowing - 10-25 today :zzz:
I decided, since I can't spray, to test mount the cushions and the hardware for the seat today. The seat cushions have 1/4-20 inserts (T-nuts) in the bases and they came with templates to drill holes in the seat. This way I can remove and put in the garage when not using, so they don't mildew - highly recommend this approach. Their other option was to "screw into the back". Ok, if you don't want to remove often.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1699.JPG)
I will add a rubber washer on the inside and the outside (will also hold them in place) when I mount to use
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1698.JPG)
The cushions and hardware look pretty decent. My oldest daughter stopped by just when I was doing this, so she helped - what a joy. :25:
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1696.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1697.JPG)
The console before
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/68cooler_in_front_of_console.JPG)
Man this wind has to give me a break one of these days :roll:
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Nice Rick. Where did you get the cushions? And maybe it is time to resurrect your paint booth!
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The guy that Randy uses made them.
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Wind, wind, go away - got her all masked off with plastic and I'm ready - the wind is supposed to be lighter this weekend (today at least)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1700.JPG)
Brought the seat back out to drill pilot holes so I don't lose the spots (as was recommended by Dave (DBurr))
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1701.JPG)
Wind is gusting up to 15 right now - maybe, maybe, maybe
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In between gusts I was able to get some gelcoat on her :cheering2:
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1703.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1702.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1704.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1705.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1706.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1707.JPG)
I found a couple spots that I missed and I will need to spray tomorrow. :cheering2:
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Good job! It blew pretty good today up here...didn't think you would be able to get her done. How many coats did you spray? I hope to be getting to my interior hull sides soon, so I need to learn more about your process.
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Great work Rick! I'm glad the wind died down enough for you to spray the gel coat.
:thumleft:
//Lars
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Thanks Lars. Craig, it was pretty breezy here too but in between gusts I was able to get her done. Remember this is the 2nd time I have sprayed her so I had some gelcoat, maybe 20 mils on her, but I got a lot of pin holes. So I sprayed the same amount again today - 2 qts of gel/duratec.
Plus, no love bugs :86:
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I went out this morning and de-masked it on the inside. I then looked around and found a bunch of pinholes on the cap :41:
So I lightly sanded the entire cap, filled the pinholes and then sanded it again. I also sanded the hatch receiver sides and filled the pinholes in them.
Then I blew off and wiped the cap down and masked the inside of the boat and sprayed another 24oz of gel/duratec on the cap all the way around.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1709.JPG)
Came out very nice and no pinholes :93:
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1708.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1710.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1711.JPG)
Grabbed a cold bottle of water and walked down the street to my buddy's house for 30 or so minutes while the gelcoat kicked and then came back and de-masked the inside. Nice and shiny now and no love bugs stuck in it, even though I saw a couple this morning. :thumleft:
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1712.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1714.JPG)
Next weekend it's sand, re-fill and spray the receivers and then I think I might pull the cables through the rigging tubes.
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Looking good! 👍
What are you using for a spray rig?
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Nice work rickk is that original console? I'm also from Florida I'm looking for Bow Railing if you know anyone
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Looking good! 👍
What are you using for a spray rig?
Thanks. I am using a HVLP with 2.0 tip.
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Nice work rickk is that original console? I'm also from Florida I'm looking for Bow Railing if you know anyone
Thanks. There is a before and after of the console a page or two back. I added/built in the seat in front.
You might want to check Marine Surplus in Bradenton for railing - they have some, not sure if it'll work on a 170 but worth checking. They have a web site.
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Looks great Rick! A little disturbing that you are getting so many pinholes. Are you using an in-line moisture separator? And if so, where in the line is it located (closer to the compressor or the gun)?
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Thanks Craig.
I do use a water separator halfway, between 2 50ft hoses. The pinholes were there prior to spraying, just didn't see them :shhh: As soon as I spray they show up. I'm sure there are still a couple - the first passenger that points them out, over the side they go :57:
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Gotcha. And I fully support your method of gaining the proper behavior from your passengers.
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Worked on the receiver edges and the storage box and masked off everything again.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1715.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1716.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1717.JPG)
I went a couple houses down the street and grabbed my buddy and we measured what I needed for control cables. We pushed one of the existing 14ftrs through the starboard tube and found out I will need 16 ftrs, which I'll order tonight if I can find the best place to order them. Then we pulled some hoses and wires through the port side - engine harness cables, fuel line, port speaker wires, power pole hoses and the hydraulic steering hoses.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1718.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1719.JPG)
The starboard side will hold the battery cables, starboard speaker wires, jackplate control wires, bilge pump wires, transducer cable and control cables.
Then I installed the rear cleats and drain caps.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1720.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1721.JPG)
Then I installed the rear terminal block for the battery cables - 4/0 in, 4awg out. The 4/0 will make the starting battery appear to be in the back of the boat even though it's in the console.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1722.JPG)
Next weekend we'll pull the starboard cables, pull the 2AWG for the trolling motor and nav light wires to the front. Then I hope to mount the front cleat, nav light and fuel fill and vent hose, which will definitely be a PITA.
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Impressive work as always Rick!
I'm glad to see you are coming along again. Winds must be better.
:thumleft:
//Lars
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Adding hardware! Big milestone, Rick! Looking great!
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Looks awesome Rick!! I envy your paint spraying skills. Are only sections of the floor and edges painted gloss because the rest will be non-skid? I ask because I will be doing the same thing and was under the impression I needed to paint the entire deck THEN lay out my non-skid areas.
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Thanks guys - it's great to get some boxes off my bench.
Brendan, I am spraying gelcoat - a little thicker. maybe. than paint, even though I have sprayed some thick primer on this boat. The spots that aren't sprayed now will be non-skid using gelcoat. Even some areas that are sprayed will be non-skid. I think I will probably be doing that near the end so I'm not working on it.
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Taking a little break to cool down so I'll update what I did this morning:
Time to install the cabinet doors. A while ago (seems like forever) I dry fit the doors and cut the hinges. I cut one side of the hinges so I could open half the door at a time. So I used them as a guide and marked the door. I drilled a 2" hole and then cut the door in half at a 30 degree upward angle so water wouldn't have a free path into the cabinet/bilge.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1723.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1724.JPG)
Screwed the hinges to the halves of the doors and then mounted the doors in the frames - Starboard side
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1725.JPG)
Here is the top open so you can route the cables/wires
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1728.JPG)
Still need to gelcoat the latches. Test mounted the sleeve.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1727.JPG)
Port side, installed and cables through the hole
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1729.JPG)
Sleeve installed
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1730.JPG)
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Great progress Rick! How hot is it in Florida, nice here, but no need to take breaks to cool down... :93:
//Lars
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Mid to upper 80s and HUMID. So the temp isn't too bad but I'm working under a tarp.
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I bet that takes it's toll. We had mid 60's here today and no humidity.
Pretty nice day to work on the boat. I hope to launch next week.
I'm in no rush, I'm travelling a lot for work, and might wait until June to launch. I have the small boat in the water.
//Lars
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Looks great. Where can one pick up those rigging sleeves like that. I'd like to find two for my rigging tubes coming through the floor into my console. Would need 3" though.
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Here's one place. It'll give you the terms to google with, like I called them sleeves, where they're called boots here.
https://www.fishntech.com/th_rigging_acc.html
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Finally took the plastic off the inserts and installed them. Had a battle with a couple of nuts that didn't want to stay glued to the fiberglass :a0004:
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1731.JPG)
Got the rear speakers installed.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1732.JPG)
Looks almost new
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1733.JPG)
I rounded up my buddy and we pulled the 4/0 cables, control cables and a couple pairs for jack plate and speakers from the console out and bilge and transducer back toward the console. Those 4/0 are monsters - there will be no loss through them. I'll run 4ga from the terminal block out to the motor.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1734.JPG)
Not much exiting the cabinet on this side. The boat will probably lean to starboard from the 4/0 though :85:
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1735.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1736.JPG)
We then spent several hours wrestling the fuel fill/vent - what a royal PITA. No room to work in that access up front, hose clamps that wouldn't move, super stiff fill hose :41: Got it done but WOW!! You can see the top on the cap to port of the access up front. Wanted to get the nav light and cleat installed but didn't have time...
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1737.JPG)
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Awesome Rick, you're making great progress!
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Great progress Rick!
Very impressive. Your boat will be state of the art! :thumleft:
//Lars
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She's coming along quickly now - thanks guys.
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Great build! You're getting close now.
I've taken to rereading all the builds with a notebook in hand,so I can record all the good ideas. I'll be stealing a few ideas from this one.
Question: what is the purpose of the split door on your stern cabinets? Was it an ease of installation thing? Or will you be able to open them for access?
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Look back a few posts and see them in action
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1735.JPG)
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Sorry, I guess I'm dense. You have to remove the boot to open a half, right?
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Yeah, wasn't trying to imply you are dense - sorry if it came across that way.
The cabinets aren't made to stored anything in, just needed a place to bring up cables from below deck. I didn't enclose the transom so this is the only thing I could think of to bring them up cleanly and keep water out of the bilge.
I guess you could open the whole door at once (without removing boot) if you wanted to but you'd be fighting the cables, hoses, etc.
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Wow thats looking good!
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No worries. I have a soft spot for the 170. My first boat was a 170. I caught a ton of fish on that boat. Took it places people shouldn't take a 17 foot boat and it always took care of me.
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Yeah I've owned this one for 28 years - she ain't going anywhere. Yes, you could remove the top two screws if you needed to open the top for something.
I have had to do some creative stuff since the fuel tank was above the sole in the original and there was a cable trough too. I've modified just about everything as I've rebuilt her into a '71/2016 model.
Thanks HL.
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Hope everyone is enjoying their Memorial Day weekend and are getting things done on their boats (can you do both :think: )
I am clearing my workbench more each day. Installed the LED NAV light and the front cleat.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1749.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1748.JPG)
Both retracted. I used some of the sheet rubber for gaskets for both.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1750.JPG)
I purchased a used jackplate from one of our members - I think I'm the 3rd owner. I ground the back down and cleaned it up a little.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1738.JPG)
I am so relieved that the holes I drilled fit the way they are supposed to
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1742.JPG)
Now were they at an angle? First the top...
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1739.JPG)
Nice - now what about the bottom holes...
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1740.JPG)
:8): I was sweating the hole alignment. :cheering2: Question to Farley - you have the plates - do you have a flat washer, lock washer and nyloc nut on each bolt?
Scupper cover clearance behind jackplate.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1741.JPG)
Added power pole plate - this is one stout plate - 1/2". Looks like you could almost use it for a kicker mount ;-) Also added a 2" block - all this to make sure the hydraulic steering would clear the transom.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1744.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1743.JPG)
Then we hoisted and swung the motor mid section into place
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1746.JPG)
You can see that the steering is clearing the transom. Even though I calculated the length of the bolts I needed they are still too short :41: Not sure why - must have not included the washers :67:
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1747.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1745.JPG)
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Looking great Rick. You should be back on the water in no time.
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Thanks FL and I hope so. Still have some work ahead of me though.
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Got a little done today - man it's getting hot now.
Fabricated the swivel holders out of star board for the slip-in wood cover for the storage in the bow and mounted the holders. Also fabbed the holders for the original wood (just sitting in there now) in the front of the storage locker/well as well but didn't get to mount the holders. I may fab a solid glass front for the locker - so it won't bow like wood.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1751.JPG)
I temporarily mounted the fishing rod trolling holders on the gunnels - a while ago I bought some little plastic cups with drains that fit the end of the rod holders so you can route rain/water back out onto the deck. I never bought the little plug drains that you drill through the liner and hook the drain hoses to. Those should be here this week. Then I'll mount the rod holders. Boat is pretty wasp and mud dauber proof now.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1752.JPG)
I mounted the transducer and also the fuel filter (no pic)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1753.JPG)
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Great progress Rick!
I'm launching this weekend if everything goes to plan.
Impressive work you do, as always! :salut2:
//Lars
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Getting closer Rick! Looking great! As far as your question to Farley, IMO you don't need a lock washer in addition to the nyloc nut (but I would use the flat washer too).
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Thanks Lars and Craig. As for the lock washers - I thought the same with the nylocs being enough but wondered why they would include the lock washers with the bolts and nuts in the 2" spacer kit.
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might be thinking you could use the lock washer on the bolt head side- to hold the bolt incase you cant get a wrench to it...? not the best method but could work in a pinch I suppose. or... like most things you have to assemble these days- its always a crapshoot whether you get a matching number of nuts-bolts-washers.
boat looks great! I'm not familiar with the 17 bows really, is that removable section a custom thing you did? how does it stay locked in while you are underway? latches underneath or something?
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Thanks.
If you're talking about the big wood piece, I have not installed the swivel keeper blocks on the sides yet.
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I worked on the proper placement of the engine/all the spacers to get the engine's anti-cavitation plate near the bottom of the boat when the jack plate is all the way down. I ended up raising the engine to the top hole on the jack plate and the bottom hole on the engine. That got the plate to be 1" above the bottom of the boat, which I think will be fine with 8" of set back. Sound right?
After that my buddy Ed and I decided it was time to dunk this baby and see if she floats. Aired the tires up, unhooked the front tarp attachment and moved the gantry to the side. I pulled the boat out of it's hiding place (in plain sight) and parked it on the road so I could clean up the years worth of leaves, dirt, shell and other stuff that accumulated under the boat. Cleaned and washed that all down and then off to the lake down the street to try her out. Boat is so light I don't even feel it behind the truck.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/TestLaunch1.png)
I have never launched at the lake so I didn't know what to expect. You're launching from shore, so I asked Ed to be ready to yell if something weird happened.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/TestLaunch2.png)
It went ok, almost had to back the truck into the water to get the boat to launch. I found out later, when I retrieved the boat, that the trailer was floating and I really didn't need to back in that far. I guess I'll need to put some weight (maybe a few hundred pounds) on the trailer.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/TestLaunch3.png)
The lake is a "no motor" lake so I guess I still qualify :hee20hee20hee:
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/TestLaunch5.png)
I am happy to see the scuppers sitting high and dry - even with a couple more hundred pounds of the rest of the engine being added - should be self baling again :cheering2:
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/TestLaunch4.png)
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Awesome!
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Looking good! Shouldn't be long now. Engine height should be good, but you'll want to run her to confirm.
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:thumleft:
Really cool Rick! Must have felt great after all the hard work you have put in!
//Lars
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Saweeeet!! I'm thinking I'm going to float mine before I cut my scuppers
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Thanks guys - it does feel good not only to float her but to get rid of all the crap that accumulated under the boat.
I need to get working on the engine now and also finish up the little bit of gelcoating I have left to do on the tank lid so I can get the console in. All the wiring has been pulled into the tank area.
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Got the power head installed today - it took a little time to order and install the parts that I forgot to remove when I traded in the engine core - DOH!!.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1760.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=14421&title=cimg1760&cat=646)
I now need to discuss with you guys where you attached the circuit breaker and relays for the jackplate under the cowl. I will take and post some pics of the under cowl room and there isn't any on the port side for sure. Where would you install the items - the relays aren't small. I can install them in the cabinets in the rear corners of the boat but would rather put them up under the cowl.
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I seem to have misplaced the clips that hold the engine side harness plugs to the helm side of the harness. Does anyone know where to purchase them? or even what the name of them are - I've googled my butt off with no success.
Thanks in advance.
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Hello Rick,
You probably have already seen this, but I found this place when helping my brother with parts for his 1999 Johnson.
You can click on view parts catalog without signing up for anything.
http://epc.brp.com/SiteMods/BRP_Public/BRP_Public_Login.aspx?ReturnUrl=%2fIndex.aspx%3flang%3dE%26s1%3d91f0aa45-071b-4748-aae1-91a549252d9c&lang=E&s1=91f0aa45-071b-4748-aae1-91a549252d9c
It will give you exploded views of the different areas of the engine.
//Lars
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Thanks Lars :nSalute:
Yup, I found this site and many others that show exploded views (maybe behind the scene they all come back to this one) and I finally found the clips by looking at a different model than mine - not sure why the clips aren't on every one :?:
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(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1761.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=14459&title=cimg1761&cat=646)
Found some rotten wires in the internal wiring harness and had to order a new harness.
Changed the impeller again (changed it when I started this rebuild), test fit the lower unit and drained/filled the lower unit lube. We found that we were missing a grommet so I ordered that and we'll finish it up next weekend.
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Getting mighty close Rick! Can't wait to see it running!
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Getting mighty close Rick! Can't wait to see it running!
Yup, me too. Just waiting for the parts now.
Next is to figure out the best way to mount the hydraulic hoses so I can tilt the engine without breaking the fittings. I may have to try to re-pull one of them through the other rigging tube - that will be tough as it's pretty full.
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Has anyone used a vertical "T"?
(http://www.go2marine.com/docs/9/4/6/0/94604F-p.gif)
I am not sure if that is a cap on the one end or what. I would think they just moved the bleeder nipple to the middle?
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Don't see why one of those wouldn't work...
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Shouldn't be long now, when do you anticipate the maiden voyage? How long has it been Rick?
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Has anyone used a vertical "T"?
(http://www.go2marine.com/docs/9/4/6/0/94604F-p.gif)
I am not sure if that is a cap on the one end or what. I would think they just moved the bleeder nipple to the middle?
that's what I have on mine- but I have mine with the "center" fitting as my attachment point on the cylinder and then the breather valve on one of the sides- hose goes on the other side. looking for a pic...
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Shouldn't be long now, when do you anticipate the maiden voyage? How long has it been Rick?
Been too long.
Hope to start the motor this weekend - the fire extinguishers are ready :86:
Then I have to get the console in and she'll be ready for a shake down.
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Has anyone used a vertical "T"?
(http://www.go2marine.com/docs/9/4/6/0/94604F-p.gif)
I am not sure if that is a cap on the one end or what. I would think they just moved the bleeder nipple to the middle?
that's what I have on mine- but I have mine with the "center" fitting as my attachment point on the cylinder and then the breather valve on one of the sides- hose goes on the other side. looking for a pic...
I have a new set of the regular ones - I will try re-arranging the breather to see if it can be installed vertically.
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did I miss a picture or post where you explained the clearance problem? not sure where/what your issue is specifically.
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This is where I learned of a potential problem - so since I haven't installed the hoses yet I'd investigate a solution
Finally got everything hooked up and I think ready to go for the first trial run. Trying to get out tomorrow to a local Lake and run around for a bit. I've got to get time to get to a place in clearwater and get a replacement steering bleeder tee fitting that I broke off. FYI hydraulic steering, narrow splashwell, Jack plate, and a motor that is capable of tilting up really far will break off the fittings for the steering.
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ahh gotcha
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I'm thinking on mine that since the hoses want to connect at a 45 (at least the way mine tighten), the hoses may put undue stress on the "T". If I can come off straight up maybe that will help. Too bad they don't make a fitting that swivels and still has a bleeder nozzle on it.
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For you experts on older Johnson/Evinrude that have a water pressure gauge - where did you put the water feed tap? I put it on the starboard side in a plug hole above the lower cylinder. We get water out of the hose but no pressure on the gauge. Now we are wondering if the gauge is good even though we can blow compressed air into it and the gauge moves. Maybe it was stuck? We'll try again next weekend.
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One thing I have done to get a reading on my WP gauge is to put a restrictor at the point that it exits the cowling. Don't close off the water completely. Maybe down to a .100" hole. I have done this with drip irrigation tips, cuz, well that is what I had and it worked!
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One thing I have done to get a reading on my WP gauge is to put a restrictor at the point that it exits the cowling. Don't close off the water completely. Maybe down to a .100" hole. I have done this with drip irrigation tips, cuz, well that is what I had and it worked!
So these old motors just don't have much pressure?
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As far as I can tell. All my Evinrude/Johnson engines have gone up to 20 psi. As a test you could temporarily block the hose for the existing pee hole and see what your water pressure does.
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I forgot to update this, thanks for reminding me. As I said earlier we sprayed a little air in the gauge and it moved. Last weekend we replaced one seal under the impeller housing (what a PITA - hope they made a change to this in later years) and hooked up the pressure gauge. Fired up the motor and the pressure at idle seems to be around 6-7 lbs. I revved the engine a little and saw up to 10lbs :thumleft: The engine is done. I'll take some pics of the hydraulic lines on the vertical Tee's.
Going to try to get a little done this weekend but I need to head out on business Sunday, so it'll be iffy on getting anything done.
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Here are some pics of the "Vertical Tee"s for the hydraulic steering that I installed after a member said that he snapped off the horizontal tee on his when tilting all the way forward- thanks for the tip. :salut2: Being vertical allows full tilt and doesn't bind when you turn the motor. Port extent of the motor (turning starboard).
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1767.JPG)
Starboard extent of the motor (turning port).
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1768.JPG)
I decided to make some 90 degree angle braces from 4-5 layers of 1708. This is how I will attach my console. There really wasn't enough room to glass it down on the inside or outside - you can see the line on the lid - this is the "inside" of the console.
I spent about 6 hours today getting them cut to the right width and height and then drilled holes for 1/4-20 Truss head bolts with fender washers and nylocs under the lid. Then I bedded them in thickened epoxy and snugged them down with with the bolts - not too much ooze out.
This is the front brace - goes full length across console
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1766.JPG)
The back - about 2/3 width
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1764.JPG)
I put shorter ones on the sides figuring all the stress will be from hanging onto the console while moving and the stress will be either front or back.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1765.JPG)
Next is to find a good captured nut to bed into the fiberglass so I don't have to wrestle with wrench and screwdriver when I need to set or remove the console.
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Great work as always Rick!
You are getting closer!!! :salut2:
//Lars
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I lam'd up some cloth scraps about a 1/4" thick and then glued them to the brackets I mounted earlier. My goal was to get the fiberglass thick enough that T-nuts would not extend past the glass. My buddy helped me set the console on the tank lid and it slid right over the brackets nice and snug. Then I drilled through the toe kick from the outside and kissed the fiberglass brackets so I knew where to drill the larger hole for the t-nuts.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1787.JPG)
Then we removed the console and I went to work drilling the main holes and the 4 holes around each main hole for the teeth of the t-nut. I made a little jig so that I could mark the 4 holes with a pencil
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1785.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1786.JPG)
and then drilled 4 holes per main hole
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1784.JPG)
Then I used a pair of channel locks to squeeze the t-nuts into the holes - nice and snug
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1783.JPG)
Then we set the console back on the lid and tested each 1/4-20 truss head bolt to make sure it mated with the t-nuts. Went together well.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1788.JPG)
Then we mounted a couple more gauges - Temp and water pressure - hadn't noticed that I ordered a silver ringed temp gauge - DOH!! Then we mounted a bilge pump switch and the jackplate control.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1789.JPG)
Next is to get the non-skid on the inside done, then mount the console and the seat. Getting close now.
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I notice that the stainless piano hinge on the console and the screws that I installed in the front speakers are rusting now. Do I need to wax the hinge before I install it? Not sure what is going on, haven't even launched yet and already replacing stuff :think:
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Wow, looking great Rick! You are definitely getting close!
Don't know what to say about the rusting stuff. Damn cheap Chinese crap.
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Thanks Craig - the rust is definitely a let down. I have more piano hinge but don't want to use it until I figure out what to do to prevent it from rusting.
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Hopefully it's just the screws and not the piano hinge.
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Piano hinge, maybe screws too :-(
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In that case I recommend you dispose of the remaining piano hinge and get another. If you like I can find out whom supplies piano hinges for the boat builder I do work for as I have never seen his rust. I have one that attaches my livewell lid and it is drenched in saltwater every trip, no rust.
EDIT: The hinges he uses are supplied through TACO
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Thanks Blue - I'll search for something by Taco. :salut2:
Do you think Aluminum hinge would be ok? http://tacomarine.com/category/cat_piano_hinge/Continuous-Hinges
Looks like Worst has TACO sewn up around here.
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Aluminum could be a viable option, you'll just have to take measures to prevent galvanic corrosion if using SS screws. Maybe an aluminum pop rivet?
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Rick, your build is fascinating to watch. You come up with ingenious solutions to challenges that a lot of folks don't consider. Well done.
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Thanks.
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Stay safe in the scary hurricane Hermine Rick!
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I lost a couple days of working on the boat this long weekend, due to work :021: Happy Labor Day!!
Anyway, I was not real confident on the plan I had for securing the seat to the deck - I was going to use stainless inserts and had over-drilled and filled the holes with thickened resin. It's been eating at me in the back of my mind for months. So I got to work on the boat Sunday and drilled a 1" hole down almost to the stringers, through the plugs I had poured earlier. I cleaned out all the plastic and made sure I had a nice flat bottom for my new plan.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1792.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=14608&title=cimg1792&cat=646)
I had some 1/4 - 20 threaded rod laying around and had 7 of the T-nuts left. So my plan was to mix up some thickened epoxy and press the t-nuts to the bottom of the hole and fill the holes with the epoxy. I taped the bottom of the seat platform so any spilled epoxy wouldn't stick to them and set the seat down on top of the threaded bolts to keep them aligned. I sprayed the bolts with some lubricant so the epoxy wouldn't stick and I could remove them - hard to see the bolts but they are in the holes on the inside of the seat platform. Got up and rotated the bolts throughout the day until the epoxy hardened. Worked out well. I have confidence that these will allow securing the seat without letting water down into the stringers.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1790.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1791.JPG)
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Started back on the boat over the past few days - working the grueling non-skid :c002: The non-skid isn't bad, it's the double masking and all the transitions.
Started at the front and finished the casting deck and added some water run lines on the floor
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1794.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=15067&title=cimg1794&cat=646)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1793.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=15066&title=cimg1793&cat=646)
Started the masking on the forward deck and then rolled the gelcoat and applied the glass bead
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1795.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=15068&title=cimg1795&cat=646)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1796.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=15069&title=cimg1796&cat=646)
Let it kick, then swept off the excess and pulled the first layer of tape
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1798.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=15071&title=cimg1798&cat=646)
Then topcoated it and let it kick
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1800.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=15073&title=cimg1800&cat=646)
Did the front of the tank lid
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1803.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=15076&title=cimg1803&cat=646)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1805.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=15078&title=cimg1805&cat=646)
Then started working the aft of the boat - a day of masking alone
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1806.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=15079&title=cimg1806&cat=646)
I really should have broke it into two sides but I didn't - almost too much room to handle before the gelcoat kicks.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1808.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=15081&title=cimg1808&cat=646)
But got it done
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1810.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=15083&title=cimg1810&cat=646)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1812.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=15085&title=cimg1812&cat=646)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1811.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=15084&title=cimg1811&cat=646)\
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1813.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=15086&title=cimg1813&cat=646)
I would not like to fall down on this stuff - talk about coming up with road rash. Next is to gelcoat the remaining section of the lid - it will be grey without non-skid.
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Looking good. Non skid! Wow! You're so close that you must be tasting the salt spray. What are you useing for your non skid?
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gelcoat and glass bead - see this post and the one after Lar's comment to see the process up close
http://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=10101.msg135182#msg135182
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Rolled gray gelcoat on the middle of the tank lid - this portion will be inside the console.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1814.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=15087&title=cimg1814&cat=646)
Set it back in the boat
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1816.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=15088&title=cimg1816&cat=646)
I forgot to take pics of the other non-skid I did over the past few days
Added this on both gunwale tops for the step into the boat
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1817.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=15089&title=cimg1817&cat=646)
And this on the top of the transom
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1818.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=15090&title=cimg1818&cat=646)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1819.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=15091&title=cimg1819&cat=646)
Then I laminated up the "tank keeper" with some Plascore and 1708 using epoxy. It is the piece that fits in the middle slot on the tank to keep it from moving
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e19/rkins/2012%20170%20Rebuild/IMG_2795.jpg)
The tank well is pretty tight so it's not going anywhere but up if we take a big wave.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=8681&title=cimg0970&cat=646)
You get a glimpse of it here
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0834.JPG)
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Made up some Plascore with 1708 and epoxy on both sides - pretty stout with just a single layer on both sides. Then I cut some uprights to attach to the sides of the tank coffin. I cut 3/4" H x1/4"W slots in them so I can raise the keeper out of the slot a little and then mixed up some thickened epoxy and glued them to the main keeper.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1820.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=15103&title=cimg1820&cat=646)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1821.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=15104&title=cimg1821&cat=646)
I pulled the glued keeper back out after it hardened a little and ground away any excess. Put it back in and drilled some small marks at the top of the slot to locate the stainless threaded inserts. Pulled the keeper back out, drilled the correct size holes and threaded in the keepers. Then I re-installed the keeper and put some high strength loctite on the truss bolts I screwed into the inserts - I left them a little loose so the keeper can move a little but raised the keeper out of the slot about 3/8" before I snugged them down.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1823.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=15106&title=cimg1823&cat=646)
After I attached the keeper I glued a brace down the middle of the keeper for added rigidity - she ain't going anywhere.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1822.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=15105&title=cimg1822&cat=646)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1824.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=15107&title=cimg1824&cat=646)
Keeper raised up
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1825.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=15108&title=cimg1825&cat=646)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1826.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=15109&title=cimg1826&cat=646)
Next is chasing out the threads of all the threaded inserts around the perimeter of the tank lid, pulling the cables, wires etc through the access holes and setting and sealing the lid down.
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Time to button it up. Sorted all the stuff out to the proper sides and made sure I have access to the pull lines I ran in each tube
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1827.JPG)
I got everything through the access holes and piled it up in the middle, inside where the console will be.
Next I added rubber washers under the truss bolts I anchor the tank lid with. I also pumped caulking in the holes to seal them up. Some oozed out but no big deal.
Time to button it up. Sorted all the stuff out to the proper sides and made sure I have access to the pull lines I ran in each tube
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1827.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1831.JPG)
Then it was time to caulk the lid to make it water tight. I ran two strips of tape around the lid so I could do a nice job of filling the gap with the 4000UV
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1832.JPG)
Then I filled it
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1833.JPG)
And used a fillet tool to smooth it out - kept dipping it in mineral spirits.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1834.JPG)
Then removed the tape - had to fuss with the corners a bit with my finger dipped in mineral spirits. Came out ok and it's sealed
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1837.JPG)
Onward
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Hung the power pole this morning and plumbed it.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1838.JPG)
Mounted the rear hatch hardware
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1840.JPG)
Finished the loom into the starboard cabinet
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1841.JPG)
Onward
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Looking good! Was the Power Pole a Christmas present? :coolth: I wasn't considering additional accessories like that on my rebuild - I better go a little larger when I install the chase tubes under the floor just in case.
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Thanks Marc. I've had this Power Pole for about 10 years and it was installed on the boat before the rebuild, but through the transom. This time I added a mounting bracket so I don't have extra holes in the transom. If you plan to put the pump in the console, the only thing coming back to the pole is two very small hydraulic lines.
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Great work as always Rick, and great progress! :thumleft:
Can't wait to see some on the water pictures!
Happy New Year!
//Lars
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Thanks Lars - making good progress now.
Dropped the console in and bolted it down. Fits like a tight pair of shoes - very tight. Also caulked around the base.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1843.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1842.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1845.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1846.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1844.JPG)
I guess I have to replace the screws that are already rusting on the speakers. :?:
I spent a few days, months ago, pre-wiring inside the console, so all that is done. I spent the rest of the day routing the cables from below (the majority of the time) and connecting wires. Only have a few more connections to make, connect the shift/throttle cables to connect to the binnacle and then mount the binnacle, wire the trim/tilt and neutral safety switch. Mount the steering wheel. I think I'm going to extend the warning buzzer wire on the ignition switch and mount it in the opening of the vent on the side of the console so I can hear it. I also have to connect the power pole hoses - there was just enough length, could have used an extra foot. Then I'll add hydraulic fluid to the pole and the steering. Probably a half day's worth of work in the console. On the boat itself I have the hinges to install on both front hatches (I'd love to find thinner hinges), seat, rub rail, the registration numbers/tags and a new jack on the trailer.
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It looks beautiful! Very nice!
I plan to re-do my electrical installation. I need to do a better job at routing the cables, and make it look nicer. I was in a rush getting it done two years ago.
Happy New Year!
//Lars
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Wow, Rick, looks fantastic! Can't wait to see some action shots. What is the next project going to be?
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Looks great! I guess the rub rail is next.
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Thanks guys.
Got the console cleaned up and installed the battery. I have to go to a battery place and have them put ends on the 4/0 cables then the electrical should be complete. The trolling motor batteries will straddle the starting battery whenever I get the trolling motor. Wires are already in place for them.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1847.JPG)
Extended the warning buzzer wires and installed it in front of the vent so I can hear it.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1848.JPG)
Installed the console seat hardware
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1850.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1851.JPG)
Oh and installed the helm seat
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1849.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1852.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1853.JPG)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1854.JPG)
I also installed these stainless drink holders - found them on my workbench today - forgot that I ordered these who knows how long ago.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1855.JPG)
Onward.
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That's one sweet 17!
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Fantastic!
You have done an amazing job on the boat!
Hat's off!
:thumleft:
//Lars
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Hey Rick, did you get her wet yet?
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No, not yet Craig.
I got the battery cable terminals crimped on, connected the cables to the battery and the battery switch and turned the switch on. Everything turned on and worked as it should with the exception of the radio. I looked at the manual again and read the troubleshooting section and in between the lines realized that there was an "Electric Antenna" wire that needed to be run between the radio and the amp, which turns on the amp. I will run that today. We filled and purged the hydraulics on the steering and the power pole yesterday and also installed the rub rail and insert. Also put on the registration numbers/decal. Last things I need to do is mount the hinges for the hatches. Will try to get that done today also - nuts that I had glued on the bottom of the casting deck are falling off as I twist the bolts in, so I need to figure out a way to get under the casting deck to install new nuts :41: .
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In the previous post I talked about going to get the battery terminals crimped on - I had my power pole zip tied closed since I didn't have any hydraulic fluid in it yet. I was paying attention to how the trailer was riding since I had new bearings and had also replaced the rubber spring for a lighter weight one on each side. I hit a bump on I-75 and all of a sudden I saw the power pole go down :shocked:. I had just hit the off ramp but the ramp was lined with cones so it took about a 1/4 mile until I could actually pull off. :91:
I'm going to guess that I lost an inch or two. Guess the zip ties are not that strong. :huh02:
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1858.JPG)
But nothing a grinder can't fix
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1860.JPG)
The wind is so strong today (and yesterday) that I took the tarp down. Good chance for a glamour shot with the rub rail on.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1859.JPG)
Still have hatches to put hinges on. Will probably splash her next weekend if the weather is nice. Still running double oil in the gas so I can't be too wild with it for another 9 hours or so.
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Looks great Rick. I love how meticulously clean you've made the wiring around the battery. I also noticed the nice sized square rear deck access port. Did you install a bilge pump? Was this the reason for the size access port?
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Thanks! :nSalute:
The boat never had a bilge pump, nor access to the bilge, so yes and yes. Actually it never had a front seat on the console or batteries inside the console or an under floor fuel tank either. Never had more than one hatch on the casting deck or rod holders that actually held a pole horizontally without falling out at the first wave. Never had under floor rigging - so there are a lot of "firsts" on this rebuild.
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Sorry to hear about the trouble with the t-nuts and the power pole. But hey, if this stuff was easy, anyone could do it. Keep at it, you're almost there, and she's looking great!
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boat looks great, something to be proud of for sure.
glad you noticed the power pole drop... had a friend who had his PP remote in his gear bag after a day of fishing,,, bag shifted while in the bed of his truck- lowering the pole... he pulled into his driveway with about 2-3" of the lower shaft left. :bangbang2:
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Yup I'd heard the nightmare stories and I too, was glad I saw it happen. Talk about a panic few minutes.
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Thanks! :nSalute:
The boat never had a bilge pump, nor access to the bilge, so yes and yes. Actually it never had a front seat on the console or batteries inside the console or an under floor fuel tank either. Never had more than one hatch on the casting deck or rod holders that actually held a pole horizontally without falling out at the first wave. Never had under floor rigging - so there are a lot of "firsts" on this rebuild.
Very nice! If possible, when you get a chance do you mind posting a photo of the mounted pump? I know its a tight space under deck, but you may be able to stick a camera phone down there with one hand to snap one off.
I'd like to visualize where you have it mounted, along with the hardware you used. When I get to removing my console to install an elevated helm station, my plan also includes cutting out the small circular rear deck access port for a large rectangle port like you've made. At which point I'll have easier access to install a bilge pump. With 40 yr old stringers, I wanna be certain I position the mount safely. Thks bud.
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I mounted the pump before I put the floor in
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0983.JPG)
Here is one after the floor was in
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/CIMG1362.JPG)
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Well that install is a heck of a lot easier than through the access port. Where do you have the outflow? And did you core out a hole through the stringer, or maybe notch the top of the stringer before laying deck? Thanks for the photo.
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Outflow is through the Starboard hull side near the transom. If you cruise back a few pages you'll see how I made the stringers and then drilled a hole on each side of the stringer and glued the pvc pipe that the black exhaust hose in the pic goes through. Then I foamed the stringers.
Spend some time looking through this rebuild and you'll see some nifty things I had to figure out along the way.
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Hello Rick,
When you did your non skid, did you use this product?
http://www.softsandrubber.com/samples.html
I can't find it in Sweden, but my brother in law is coming to visit this summer. I might ask him to bring me some.
//Lars
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Hi Lars,
I used "glass bead" and bought it in 1 lb cans.
http://www.fiberlay.com/store.php?startrow=0
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Thanks Rick!
I really like the result you got using that product. I will check and see if I can get hold of it over here.
Thanks!
//Lars
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Got her wet today!! Got to spend a couple hours in her, mostly idling - needs some timing tweeks or something. Running rough as I run her up in RPM and where it should jump up on plane (2+k) it starts really stuttering. Had a flat bulb on the fuel line at first, took the screen off the end of the tube in the tank and that fixed that problem but the rpm problem is still there. Has 1.2 hours on the motor now. Has double oil in the small tank.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/646/IMG_32311.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=15353&title=img-32311&cat=646)
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Huge milestone! Congrats! :cool2:
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I have been lurking Rick, absolutely fantastic work, you must feel a hell of a sense of accomplishment!!! :13: :13:
FWIW.. I have the same steering ram on the Osprey and have 2 90's in line that keep my hoses from heading to the moon. I have them set up so that the 2nd 90 has the hoses roughly the 7-8 o'clock position looking aft. That helps prevent kinking when the engine is tilted.
Whaja find on the motor?
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Hi Dave, great to see you still around. It does feel good to be done and back on the water now. Still have some little stuff to do but the big stuff is done.
I am out of my element on the motor stuff, so I dropped it off at a mechanic yesterday. Waiting for him to call me so I can describe the problem.
I bought a 20year old RV a few months ago so I have been splitting my free time between the projects - needed to get this one done , for sure.
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Congrats Rick! Big step! :salut2:
I hope you figure out the engine issues. Looking forward to more water pics!
//Lars
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Do you have a photo of it sitting in the water after you got everything reinstalled? Would like to see how it sits in the water.
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I do not have a pic yet. Right now it's sitting a little bow light because I am not using the real fuel tank (using a 3 gal portable so I can double oil the engine as I break it in) nor do I have the trolling motor batteries yet. I think the main tank being full will level it out a bit.
I got the boat back from the mechanic and the engine is still not running right - he replaced an optical sensor but I guess that wasn't the problem. He didn't take it out on the water to test it when he was done - tested it on muffs.
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I spent a few hours yesterday and today sealing 2000 sf of pavers, twice. So now that is done and I had a couple hours today to go get the boat from the mechanic and take it for a test run. He took it for a test ride this time and said he could get it up to 5k no problem. The engine was giving us a false signal somehow, which forced the engine into S.L.O.W mode. This engine doesn't have much of a brain on it so it seems that the things that can trigger SLOW is overheat and low oil. I don't have the oiler hooked up so that is ruled out (didn't have a problem with that before) and the temp sensors had been replaced as we put the engine back together. The mechanic was at a loss to what was causing it. He thought it was the port temp sensor, replaced it but it didn't help. Finally he cut some wire that brought the idle up 200rpm when the engine was cold. Seemed to solve the problem and the engine would go above SLOW rpm.
This boat is a different boat from what I remember from 4 years ago. The engine being set back has the boat porpoising until I get to about 35 or 36mph. Hopefully when I start using the real fuel tank it will take care of that - maybe trolling motor batteries also. If it doesn't, I think a wedge for the motor will help tuck the motor under the boat more so I can push the bow down a bit. Don't really want to put tabs on the boat.
Now, about the engine - it is very responsive. I think I 1) my tach is off - I set it to 4P (If I remember right), 2) I need to limit the throttle travel, or 3) play with props. Here's why: The engine will spin up to 6700 rpm. :confused1: As I was playing around, moving through the RPM range as I break the engine in, it pops right up on plane - not a bow up so you can't see pop - it just jumps on plane (maybe the epoxy paint on the bottom?) and then it seems that the rpm is high for all speeds. If I remember right I used to be around 4k at 30mph, now I'm at 5k and I think I maxed around 5800rpm. From 4k to WOT is like 2-3 seconds - very responsive. I know I blew through the 3 gal tank in a very short time.
I am not a motor head so I'd appreciate some tips on this if anyone can help.
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Fantastic work here Rick. Not sure how I haven't seen this until now. That's a real purdy 170. I'll be redoing my nonskid and topside paint in the next few years, and definitely using this as a reference.
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Thanks, not sure how you missed it either ;-)
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Rick, what and outstanding job!I have a question about your foot recess around your console. Do you like it ? Was it worth it. Anything you would change now that you have used it for a while? Deeper? Higher?
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Thanks for the kind words Sean.
I like the toe kick around the console - think it was worth the last minute change. It does make the trip around the console easier.
I got side-tracked with an old RV I bought and the boat took a back seat. The RV is coming right along and we took it out for it's maiden voyage this past weekend. Like a boat, it'll never be done but I got the majority of the major stuff done. It was once (97) the top of the Newmar line and she has every option available back then and they all work (now). :8):
Back to the boat - the engine still has about 2 hours on it so I still have some hours to finish the break-in and have a 3 gallon tank to premix double oil. I can get 12 miles on 3 gals. The only way I know this is this last trip I went 12 miles and the engine died at the dock as I reached it. :afraid: I will see if I can take it for another hour this weekend.
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Close call on the gas. Looks like you know your limits with that temp tank! The motor seems strong now. That's great. If it's easy to pull your tach, might want to thow another one in and verify whether it's the tach or motor. Especially since your in the break in period. Oh yeah, the hook you took out of the hull, or rather the built in trim tabs you filled in, is definitely not helping with the porpoising. Different hull bottom=different ride. Might look into a stern raising prop?? Thanks for the feedback !!
Going to pursue the toe recess for mine. Hope it comes out close to your craftsmanship.
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Rick,
I just finished reading this thread end to end. Absolutely amazing rebuild. It is full of killer information, and a ton of inspiration. Thank you for documenting the process so well.
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You're welcome and thanks for the kind review - I learned a lot on this project. I could have just posted 20 pages or so but my intent was putting up good learning material for other beginners, like I was. I posted good and bad results so others won't make the same mistakes I did but also get some ideas they can use or improve on. What I learned is that working with fiberglass is forgiving and mistakes can be fixed (other than the main hull - that'd be scary).
I just wish I would have done more mold work. Working in a negative can be a challenge - the transom liner I did was a real challenge but worked out nice. I still need to make a storage tray for under the seat, so I will get another shot at it. I want to try to gelcoat it first and then lay glass on it. Learning, learning, learning - if you stop learning, you're toast.
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What an extensive rebuild! I think this boat should be relabeled as a 2017 model, not a 1971. :-)
Dave
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Thanks.
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Rick,
I love your helm bench. I was wondering where you found it. I am not seeing much of anything like it.
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I had it custom made. I found a similar one online that was much taller and took a picture of it to a local manuf and had it made.
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Hey Rickk...I'm sure you documented and photographed the installation of your thru hull livewell pump. But frankly you've got 90+ pages going, so you know :mrgreen: You mind detailing the components you used from outer hull to inner hull, i.e. did you use a backing block seacock, flanged ball type seacock, high speed pickup, etc. Or if you know the exact page number in your rebuild thread please paste link. Thanks.
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I don't have any through-hulls. I added a bilge pump and exhaust out the side - that's it.
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I notice that the stainless piano hinge on the console and the screws that I installed in the front speakers are rusting now. Do I need to wax the hinge before I install it? Not sure what is going on, haven't even launched yet and already replacing stuff :think:
You might need some "pickling paste" if that is stainless that is rusting. Pickling Paste is an acid gel that eats the free ferrous molecules out of the surface of the stainless alloy. The process is called passivization. Properly passivized 304 (aka 18-8) is actually more corrosion resistant than active (untreated) 316.
http://www.smex.net.au/reference/Corrosion02_NobilityScale.php
This is one source for the type of material that I am talking about.:
https://www.fisheriessupply.com/wichard-wichinox-stainless-steel-etcher-cleaner
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Also,
That's a super sweet rebuild.
I just looked at this thread for the first time in many months & wow, just wow.
Nice work.
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I notice that the stainless piano hinge on the console and the screws that I installed in the front speakers are rusting now. Do I need to wax the hinge before I install it? Not sure what is going on, haven't even launched yet and already replacing stuff :think:
You might need some "pickling paste" if that is stainless that is rusting. Pickling Paste is an acid gel that eats the free ferrous molecules out of the surface of the stainless alloy. The process is called passivization. Properly passivized 304 (aka 18-8) is actually more corrosion resistant than active (untreated) 316.
http://www.smex.net.au/reference/Corrosion02_NobilityScale.php
This is one source for the type of material that I am talking about.:
https://www.fisheriessupply.com/wichard-wichinox-stainless-steel-etcher-cleaner
Yup, I need to do something about this - thanks for the info. Almost sounds like Ospho would do this also? (Phosphoric acid)
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Also,
That's a super sweet rebuild.
I just looked at this thread for the first time in many months & wow, just wow.
Nice work.
Thanks.
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Yup, I need to do something about this - thanks for the info. Almost sounds like Ospho would do this also? (Phosphoric acid)
I know that some old timers used to clean their chrome with Coke or Pepsi, because the phosphoric acid in it would help to eat up the rust, but I'm not sure that phosphoric is the correct type of acid to treat stainless to hold up to salt water. I just don't know.
Pickling paste is the easy way to passivize stainless. There is also a commercial process that uses a liquid mixture of acids & an electric charge. I think that the commercial mixture is usually muriatic (aka hydrochloric) with a touch of hydroflouric thrown in. It's a pretty mean mixture. It will eat through a glass jar if given enough time. (don't ask)
The Wichinox tube that I have is written in German, so I can't read the label all that well. As near as I can figure, the acid in it is a close cousin of sulfuric.
Most of the publicly available rust removers I have seen in places like Lowes & Home Depot are based on oxalic acid. I've often wondered if that would work for treating stainless, but I never tried it.
If you try your phosphoric based chemical, please let us know how it works out. I'd be interested to learn about new options. Wichinox tends to be kind of pricey, even from the discount guys & the commercial stuff is just too mean of a mixture for me to keep laying around.
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Will do - I just bought a bottle of Ospho so I'll have some to try.
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I just Googled Ospho. From the description, it sounds a lot like something called POR15 that my younger brother uses when restoring old motorcycles. That stuff is formulated to put a stable oxide coating on ferrous metals. I think that is the opposite of what we are looking to do here. Here, with stainless, we want to strip the ferrous ions from the surface so that a layer of chromium oxide can form without blemishes. I think (& I could be wrong) that the stuff you have is good as a base coat for mild steels. Please let me know if the label recommends it's use on stainless.
Thanks,
Jim.
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I read the label today and it doesn't mention stainless - only ferrous and galvanized metals. It does mention that it can dissolve rust on paint.
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Geez ... just spent the entire day reading (and rereading some entries) the thread to get to this point ... bloody hell man, where's the last chapter? Can't leave us hanging in the wind like this .... how about a wrap-up and evaluation of things that you may have done differently with the hindsight so hard earned?
Fantastic experience ... and many thanks for the priceless knowledge you've so generously shared ... she has the looks to go with her ageless class.
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I am still tinkering on her. Have been spending more time in the RV so I have to split time working on the house and the boat when I'm at home. Stay tuned and thanks for the kind words - it was a fun rebuild.
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So... any pics of how she sits in the water?
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Not a true pic while using the under deck fuel tank - still running it off a temp tank while I break the engine in. Been kinda distracted with everything going on lately.