What is a flat back

[mobygrinder]

What is a flatback? I am looking to find another boat to redue. I have a 175 osprey. My question is what can become a flat back aquasport. I am looking at a 19.9, 1968 There is a 19.6 1973. Then theres the 22 aquasport that looks like a nice hull. Does a flat back have to be a 222 or can it just be anystyle boat as long as it is modified?

[Capt. Bob]

Start here.
http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery ... /photo/114

http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery ... t/2/page/9

http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery ... /2/page/16

You don't "modify" the hull. It's already a flat back, aka minimum dead rise.

[GoneFission]

The "flatback" was make until about 1972, so the 68 model you are looking at is a flatback.  Odds are the 73 is the next generation with a 12 degree deadrise hull.  One of the best ways to identify a flatback is from the bow - the flatbacks do not have a lifting strake in the bow like the later hulls.  The lifting strake was added to help the boat get on a plane quicker.  The later models also widened the beam a bit.

Flatbacks have a big group of folks that love them, and they take 1" less draft than the later models (Ospreys).  Some just like the lines of the flatties - and they do have a classic profile.  However, they have several drawbacks:  they have a tendancy to bow steer (especially with a good crosswind) due to very little keel stability,  they are slow to plane, and the smaller beam rounded bottom is a little more "tippy" than the later hulls.  

Hope this helps - good luck!

[mobygrinder]

Ok so a true flatback was made up untill 1972. I also can see the design and how it would effect the planning and tippier. I realize that you can probable make a 1973 aquasport into a flatback if you wanted to but do you need the boat to be a certain length. In other words what is a 222 a 22 foot aquasport what is a 22.2 just another way to say its a 222? Then you have a 19.6 or a 20 footer. I know this probable to some guys seems like a dumb question but its hard to find a break down of whats a 222 a 22.2 and can a 19.6 or a 20 foot aquaspiort become a flatback? all the pictures on the site don't have the year with the size and the breakdown of what a flatback is. A true flatback. I also appreciated the input so far. Its just if I am going to look I want to make sure I have it right. I see the hull difference but you have the size of the boats that get confussing also.

[GoneFission]

The 22-2, 19-6, and 17-0 became the 222, 196, and 170 Ospreys for the 1981 model year.  The same happened with the CCP series - the 22-2 and 24-6 CCPs became the 222CCP and 246CCP for the 1981 model year with new console designs.  There were some cosmetic and update changes, but the hulls basically stayed the same from the mid-1970s until the late 1980s.  

The numbers stand for hull length in feet and inches.  So the 22-2 is 22 feet, 2 inches overall length, and became the 222 for the 1981 model year with the same hull.  The 19-6 is 19 feet, 6 inches in length, with the 170 at 17 feet even.  

You really can't make a 22-2 flatback from a 1973 or later 22-2 Osprey.  The hulls are very different, including beam.  You could cut an Osprey's  keel and bottom from bow to stern and put a flat bottom on it, but that would just be a waste of time and would ruin a good boat.  A few folks have put tunnels in the back of Ospreys and flatbacks for more shallow running.  If you want a flatback, you've got to find a flatback - which would be a 1972 or earlier model year.    

If you want a really skinny water boat, but not a flatback, IMHO you have two options:
Get a flats boat, like a Carolina Skiff - or - and I'm surprised we don't see more of these:
Get an Osprey and put a jet outboard on it - that would run in almost NO water!  

[slvrlng]

The only other Aquasport that comes close to having a "flatback" is a 191. They also quit making these around 1972. They have a "pad" in the stern. Any 22-2 or 19-6 after these models have a 12 degree deadrise with the lifting strakes towards the bow like Gone Fission said.

This is a 12 degree deadrise.








This is a 19-1
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m198 ... G_0251.jpg

[Skoot]

I know A lot of people think that if you close in the transom/full transom that the boat automatically becomes a Flatback! Well thats not the case.  A true flatback has the deadrise of a Carolina Skiff at the stern. It has nothing to do with the height or config of the transom.

The only true 'flatback model" that Aquasport made was the "22-2 Flatback"

[mobygrinder]

Hey guys,I really appreciate the information and yes I was under the impression that yes if you close in the transom on any aquasport it could become a flatback the deadrise is not what comes to mind when you are closing in the transom of a boat. I have been well informed and can begin to really look at what I want to buy next. The other problem is that other people I talked to about buying there boat say its a flatback or could be a flatback if you wanted to convert it, but its not a true flatback. I have another question that has been brought to my attention in this forum. Anyone know or could answer this one, how does a flatback handle. I love my 175 osprey it handles a swell pretty good, Its manageable being I have bad hips. its a little slow with a few people in it getting up on plain. I enjoy my boat know but its not big enough for 4 or more than 4 people. I like the Mako 20 to 22 foot but the Aquasport to me is a much better looking boat. Will I get what I am looking for I cant really get a test ride,lol but I am looking for a boat that I can handle its size,I have bad hips, so don't want to big of a boat and a center console works well for me. I go in the ocean and up in the creeks,I can handle alone but could put like 5 to 6 people on and feel like we are not going to flip it and it can get from a to z without laboring. A 20 or 23 foot mako can do this but can a older flatback handle this. I like the look of the older flatbacks so I am hopping it can but hate to find out the hard way it cannot. lol, I hope this is not to long and appreciate everyones input. Like I say cant test ride one of these boats not to many in my area. thanks Rich  
Questions: Flatback comparison
1st, Can it handle a good sea
2nd, Can it handle like 5 to 6 people in the boat without feeling like you are overloaded and can it get you from a to z without laboring.
3rd, Is this boat still manageable,can if you are alone still put it on your trailer at the boat ramp alone without alot of effert.
4th, Is this boat comparible to a 20 foot to 22 foot mako?

[Skoot]

1. Compared to a mako, NO!
2. Yes and then some.
3. Yes and No, depends on the trailer.  With an Owen and Sons trailer, Yes.
4. NO

Look in photo gallery section of this site for more info on the 22-2's. There is more than one model.
Flatback (No deadrise but sharp entry) great for flats/shallow water
Osprey (12 degree deadrise) great all round boat, Low gunwales good for inshore and mid-shore.
CCP (?? deadrise) Deep V, High gunwales great for off-shore.

[mobygrinder]

Scott,thanks, I look over photos on the sight and have seen different hulls that would probable work for all the applications I am looking for. Its hard to find the boat that fits and still keep it an older style flatback and find that boat for sale,lol. I just took a ride in a mako and its not smooth like my osprey. I never took a ride in a flatback so can't compare. I appreciate your post and will keep it in mind but like I say the flatback has a good look. Thanks again

[GoneFission]

If you like the 22 foot Mako, you are probably looking more toward a 222 Center Console Professional or CCP.  It has the deep-V hull (20 degree deadrise) and meets your needs - it's made for offshore fishing and can handle "a good sea," it can handle 5-6 people with ease, you can put it on a good trailer single-handed, and it compares favorably with a Mako.  The deep-V hull on the CCP would be better on your hips than the 12 degree deadrise on the Osprey.  The CCP draws 1" more water than the Osprey line - the 222 Osprey has a 9" draft, and the 222CCP comes in at a 10" draft.  I doubt if you would really notice that difference.  Look around for a 1978 to 1990 222CCP with a 200 or 225 outboard.  

I'd be happy to give you a ride next time you are in the area...    

[mobygrinder]

Gone fission, Thanks and will look at that year aquasport. I appreciate the ride idea but never the same conditions from day to day but I appreciate the offer and don't know when I will be in NC,lol as far as hulls and design my Osprey know is perfect but cant hold enough people so I am tired of hearing everyone say a bigger boat. My problem is the Mako probable covers all the criterier that I am looking for but I like the Flatback but don't have the amount of knowledge with a flatback that I do with a Mako and sorry the Mako is ugly.lol once again I appreciate the input and really is giving me a real understanding of how the flatback compares and if its a good choice before I have to here (why did you buy this) lol

[scuppers]

i have a 1970 22'2" flatback with a 140 hp evenrude. here's what i know. the difference between a "deep V" and a flat bottom are significant and important to realize. the deep v will go fast thru a chop and get you out to distant fishing grounds in the ocean in a hurry. however if the ocean gets really rough the deep v can't go fast and becomes a displacement hull and wallows in the sea. the flat bottom has a wider and flatter bottom platform and can ride out the rough seas with more stability than the deep v. the deep v weight is a much heavier hull than a fltbck. & needs a bigger hp engine to make it perform, thus burning more gas. my boat holds 60 gals. of gas & goes 49mph. its light on its feet and planes incredibly fast. in general its a rougher ride than the deep v but the performance & fuel economy are what i like. i wouldn't sell my boat for love or money. scuppers

[LilRichard]

Eh... I agree with GF except one thing: a flat bottom boat like the FB will plane faster than a 12deg deadrise boat given the same motor... it's physics.  Any V bottom boat has less lift than a flat bottom - that's also why you see FBs with smaller motors, takes less power due to low deadrise.  How many 22' boats do you see that run 150s and jump on plane within a boat length or two?

That's also why it takes a LONG time for really deep deadrise boats to plane (think offshore race boats).

[GoneFission]

LR - you are right to a point, but boats do not plane from the stern, they plane from the front.  That's why Coburn put those lifting strakes in the front of the 22-2 in the early 70's - they help the boat plane faster.  A compaint about the early flatbacks was they did not plane quickly - they did more of a rise with speed.  The reason flatter semi-V or flatbottom boats plane quickly is not due to the deadrise - it's really more that the bow lifts quickly and then the stern comes up to follow.  I've had true flat bottom boats that plane almost instantly because the whole hull lifts at one time.  Some Pro-Crafts, Larsons, and others even have sponsons in the front to help them plane, and then a deeper V futher back for a smoother ride once on a plane.  

Most deep-V hulls (say 20 degrees deadrise) at the transom are a LOT more than 20 degrees at the bow, so there is almost no lift there - unless you add some lift with strakes.  Without the lift from the horizontal strakes in the bow, these boats are very slow to plane.  Grady-White and some others use deep-V hulls with several strakes to get the hull on a plane quickly, yet allow for the more gentle entry of a deep-V in waves.  Think stairstep physics here - the water lifts on the horizontal plane, but slips on the vertical plane.  This was a key benefit from the old wooden lapstrake boats - they had many 4-5 inch strakes that helped lift the hull.  For example, the Chris-Craft Sea Skiff (a lapstrake boat) would plane quicker and stay on a plane with less power or at a lower speend than the comparable Chris-Craft models like Cavalier, Commander, or Constellation that did not have the benefit of the strakes to provide lift, but had a similar deadrise at the stern.  
   
So as the EPA says, "your mileage may vary."  The common wisdom that flatter bottoms plane faster and run faster with less HP and deep-V's run smoother in rough water but take more HP is generally true - but you can mix design features and hybridize some aspects to get some advantages of one with the other - it's not always either-or; sometimes it's one-and-the-other.