Classic AquaSport
Aquasport Model Rebuilds, Mods, Updates and Refreshes => Osprey Style Hull Rebuilds => 22-2 Rebuilds => Topic started by: Que Pasa on December 02, 2014, 05:29:35 PM
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Gonna, be rebuilding my 22 in the near future. Would like to get some opinions on the floor issue. I have been reading lots of rebuilds and would like to get some feedback on the best way to tie in the floor. I have seen it done both ways, tied into the liner and tied into the the shell sides. Question is, over the long haul which has held up better (ie:stress cracks at joints)? Like to get some feed back from those who have run with it like that for a while. Thanks.
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When I changed out the sole in my 170 the first time I cut the old sole out with a skill saw leaving a lip around the perimeter. I then laid the new sole on top of the lip, glued, screwed and glassed in and it lasted 14 years. I got some delam from the underneath, decided to take it out and then for some reason, I went crazy on it ;-)
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We need, require and mandate that there be a LARGE amount of boat PORN here :shock:
So where are the pics as this thread is useless without picture :mrgreen:
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The Boat is untouched from original. Getting my plan together before carnage. Can post pics of it, but they'd be pretty boring. Rick that seems to be the route most take? Trying to get a feel if that is the best option.
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Rick that seems to be the route most take? Trying to get a feel if that is the best option.
Does the boat still have the wiring trough? If so, that is what I had on my 170 and left it and laid the new sole on top of it. I didn't see anything wrong with using the trough, some don't like the trough because water can run through there freely - maybe they are worried about water and wiring, but if the wiring is in good condition, with no splices in it, it will be fine. Mine was for 30+ years. Plus the trough kept the bilge water tight from the top of the boat.
On my new rebuild I decided to run rigging tubes - a lot of people do this. Most close in the transom and have a good place to hide where the wiring come up. I did not close my transom so I needed to figure out how to bring the wiring up and protect the bilge. You can see my solution by looking at my rebuild.
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You have a lot to chew on.
You'll first need to decide upon the transom configuration, open or closed, and work it backwards.Then HP, and how your power will mount. If the transom is closed, you can mount via a porta-bracket, or if you like to swim/dive, an Armstrong bracket. Makes entry/exit from the water a lot easier.
Then you'll need to decide the deck (floor, sole) height. If your transom is open and your engine weight low, you'll only need to raise the deck height an inch or thereabouts. So you can leave the former deck edges in and re-floor on top. If you do this you can leave the liner wall sides intact and tie-in there. The downside to this method is you're building on top of an edge which is cored with plywood 40+ years old.
There are a lot of great rebuilds here, everything from quick and easy to tunnel hulls to full-blown strips where the builder began with a fiberglass shell. They are all different. The good news is that there is so much history, the big mistakes can be avoided by research. So check them all out, especially the first portions, where you are now. Even if you don't have time to read the discussion, just scroll through the first few pages of pics.
Good luck sir, welcome to the fam! :cheers:
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Then you'll need to decide the deck (floor, sole) height. If your transom is open and your engine weight low, you'll only need to raise the deck height an inch or thereabouts. So you can leave the former deck edges in and re-floor on top. If you do this you can leave the liner wall sides intact and tie-in there. The downside to this method is you're building on top of an edge which is cored with plywood 40+ years old
I will be closing the transom and using a porta bracket with a 150 Yam 2 stroke. And as you mention I am not keen on joining to 2 inches of 40 year old ply, sealed or not. I do want finished gunnels. So I was thinking of leaving the bottom skin of the floor all the way out to the middle of the stringer. Then removing the wet foam if it is wet. Then reinforcing the skin and laying glass all the way to the other stringer. Then use a thicker core to get some height and finishing the floor on top of that. This way I would keep the integrity of the liner.
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I will be closing the transom and using a porta bracket with a 150 Yam 2 stroke. And as you mention I am not keen on joining to 2 inches of 40 year old ply, sealed or not. I do want finished gunnels. So I was thinking of leaving the bottom skin of the floor all the way out to the middle of the stringer. Then removing the wet foam if it is wet. Then reinforcing the skin and laying glass all the way to the other stringer. Then use a thicker core to get some height and finishing the floor on top of that. This way I would keep the integrity of the liner.
You may be making a bigger deal of this then it needs to be. The way you want to do it is going to be very hard to do. If you lay the new sole on top of the "lip" you are going to be gluing it to the lip and the stringers, adding a filet of putty and then tabbing into the liner sides a bit plus you'll be covering the entire sole with glass and tieing that to the liner sides. Any way you go you'll be tieing into the liner. Doing it your way you're already compromising the liner so don't bother, cut it out.
I would not hesitate tieing into the lip/liner/stringers as long as it all looks to be sound.
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Gotcha, what do you recommend for coring. Was thinking of divinycell for the floor. The Transom was going to be marine ply. A
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Agree with Rick. You'll want to raise the deck height with a closed transom a solid two inches to self-bail with the extra weight and COG change. ....if you go the route you're thinking, you'll have to add 1.5 inches of core.....overkill and way too much weight. Plus a chitload of unnecessary time, money, and trouble.
Cut it all out, clean out the stringers...tab the stringers inside and outside, refoam. Then add to the stringer tops as needed for your deck height. You can even add 1.5 inches higher as spray foam in the stringers, cut and trim, then wrap the tops fore to aft with glass. You'll have higher stringers with minimal weight gain.
If you want to leave in the liner side walls, that's fine. Shoot a bit of foam between the side walls and the vertical portion of the hull..push and work it/spread between the two parts before it kicks, will stiffen it up. Then deck to that.
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(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//712/IMG_20141203_203747.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=10883&title=img-20141203-203747&cat=712)
Lars's 170...cleaning her up. Leaving the balance of the liner in place.
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I like your questions which means your thinking. I like the Divinycell however for a 3/4" 4x8 sheet your looking around $235 a sheet and needing 5 sheets. If you look at Nidacore at $65 a sheet, your lighter and just as strong if not stronger, and ahead of the game in the wallet. Both will be handled the same way with glass on both sides. Just put a small section of Divinycell in the deck core for attaching a tower later if that's your plan. Since your going to use composite, why not use 1 sheet of Coosa Bluewater 26 1 1/2 for the transom. No rot issues ever, much less work with having to over drill, fill with epoxy, then redrill to keep the rot monster away and will be lighter than that ply.
Do you plan on keeping your hull liner or cutting it away? If you take it out, you could attach ledgers to the hull side or use fiberglass square tubes as a ledge then lay the floor on top of those. There are so many ways to do these boats, it's up to you to pick which method words for you. Last question, do you plan on using Epoxy, Vinyl or Poly for your rebuild? Put up that photo of your boat so we can see your canvas.
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http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/thumbs/Photo187.jpg
http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/thumbs/IMG_0788_1_.JPG
http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/thumbs/IMG_0791_1_.JPG
New at the Pic thing. But let see how this works.
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(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/Photo187.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=10895&title=photo187&cat=500)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_0788_1_.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=10893&title=img-0788-1&cat=500)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_07631.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=10888&title=img-07631&cat=500)
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This is how she looked the day I bought her. Told ya it would be boring. I 'm try to post some more.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_0787.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=10891&title=img-0787&cat=500)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_0766.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=10889&title=img-0766&cat=500)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_0754.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=10887&title=img-0754&cat=500)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_0784.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=10890&title=img-0784&cat=500)
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Will the coosa be strong enough to support a porta bracket. I thought the ply would be stronger.
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heres a link to my rebuild,
http://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=9842.0
take a look at it along with the several other rebuilds currently going on at the moment...
i went all composite for my rebuild. it was my first rebuild and it will probably be my last rebuild.
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...and it will probably be my last rebuild.
:lol: :lol:
I know the feeling well.
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Not boring at all. You have a nice boat there and a lot of potential. As for Coosa being strong enough, it is as long as you use the bluewater 26 and put in knees. 1 Sheet of 1 1/2 will do the knees and the full transom with little waste. Check out Aarons build above and Capt Matts build (flat back but same principle) as Capt Matt used nothing but Coosa and runs his everyday for his lively hood viewtopic.php?f=39&t=5724 (http://www.classicaquasport.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=5724)
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Oh don't let Gran see those casting deck hatches, he'll love them <!-- s:shock: -->:shock:<!-- s:shock: -->
As for the your trailer, look at where the bunks end just prior to the transom, you can see a hook. When you tear into that hull, support it well and get that hook out the best you can. Here is a thread by a GURU builder here on the site that will help with the hook. I know it's based on the flat back but gives your great direction.
http://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=9991.0
When you flip her, you can finish it out by fairing.
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AC, I was under there and did check for that. I didn't see a hook, maybe the pic is deceiving. But looking at the pic I do see what your talking about. I'll have to check it again. Hope I don't have to deal with that.
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Pretty flat here...
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_07621.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=10896&title=img-07621&cat=500)
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Run a 3-5 foot straight edge under the hull from edge of transom forward. See if there is space under the edge and then move the edge forward from the transom edge about a foot. That will be your real test. If it is, it wont be bad to fix and shouldn't be much.
On another note, if you are going to reuse your rub rail, Lewis cleaned his up with light sanding and chemicals. His is a blue color. WOW it looks great and almost brand new.
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Don't think so, I'm thinking indigo blue with white bottom. Thin black rub rail.
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Getting ready to break the seal and start the redo. Gonna tackle the transom first. Would like some feedback on transom size. I will be closing the transom and putting a crown in the transom cap. Is there a general width everyone has been using. I don't want to make it to wide and take up a lot of room from the interior, however I would like to have a small fish box in there.
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One more question, how deep in from the transom is everyone making that first cut on the floor.
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I'll jump in but only from a rebuild sense, not a 222 rebuild, and only what I've observed on the enclosed transom rebuilds.
The transom thickness is usually 2 x 3/4" plywood with 2 layers of mat and one of cloth in between. You can go with composite at 1.5" thickness and then add glass. You'll want to beef up the original transom skin with a couple layers of cloth first, then trowel on some thickened resin to glue it all together. You'll end up with about 2" thickness.
As for the depth (front to back) of the transom cap remember that the transom itself is at an angle away from the boat so it you want to put anything in the cabinet that results from closing the transom in, the top will be deeper than the bottom because you'll want the cabinet to be straight up and down. Usually pumps of all kinds (tabs, power pole), fuel filters, etc are mounted in that area. Seems the average is 12" depth and I am not sure what that will give you at the bottom, maybe 8"?
So it sounds like you're not redoing the floor? Once you cut into the boat you'll know if you need to go deeper.
There will be others jumping in here soon. I the meantime start digging into the 222 and 222 FB rebuilds forums where most of your questions have been answered many times over.
Oh and what year is the boat? Looks to be early 70s. Should have a HIN stamped into the back of the transom.
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Thanks Rick it's a 76, and everything you mentioned is spot on. I hope not to have to do the floor but I think I will. How much of the floor away away from the transom should I cut away to give me the access I need.
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I think you'll need about 18" of floor and liner cut back so you have room to work. You'll need to tab 6, 8 and 12" to secure the transom, so you won't have much extra room at 18".
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I think you'll need about 18" of floor and liner cut back so you have room to work. You'll need to tab 6, 8 and 12" to secure the transom, so you won't have much extra room at 18".
I agree 100% Rick.
Que Pasa, All I can offer is what I am doing on my flatback... I am at 17" on the top of the transom and that left me with 12" of depth at the sole height. I raised my sole 3 1/2"...
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Ugg, just found three holes in the forward hull. Looks like the boats been on the rocks. Hidden under bottom paint with a :*: patch job. In it pretty deep.
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Bottom paint hides a lot of stuff :roll:
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Got into it with the grinder today gonna take some pics, will post later. Can't really tell what I'm looking at besides it going through the gel. Dunno if this guy just was patch happy and I'm grinding original glass or if it went through all the way. The resin and glass seem pretty solid. Let the itching begin.
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(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/Photo237.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=12170&title=photo237&cat=500)
In this one you can see the patch above where I did the grinding
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/Photo238.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=12171&title=photo238&cat=500)
And this one you can see it below.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/Photo239.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=12172&title=photo239&cat=500)
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The top pic looks like there is a repair but the others look normal. You may want to grind back along the keel, towards the front, an equal amount on each side and plan to put a layer or two of 1208 along the keel or maybe 6oz mat/cloth.
Welcome to the grinding brigade. :salut2:
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They are all repairs Rick, but I'm wondering if this guy chipped the gel with the trailer and then just slapped glass on there. Look at the middle pic you'll see a patch under the bottom paint as you go up the keel toward the middle of the pic.
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It's hard to tell from the pics - if you're talking about the white, looks like gelcoat from here.
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No, you can see the raised edge under the bottom paint.
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(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/Photo2381.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=12178&title=photo2381&cat=500)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/Photo2391.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=12180&title=photo2391&cat=500)
You can see where the yellowing that is under the bottom paint in this one. that's what it looked like when I started grinding, well I'll know soon enough as the deck is coming off today.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/Photo2371.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=12175&title=photo2371&cat=500)
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Much easier to see when you draw arrows to it :old01:
:laugh03:
We'll be waiting to see what it looks like inside.
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Well good news my floor is dry, bad news foam on starboard side is wet. Hate to cut out a good floor but gotta get the wet stuff out.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/Photo242.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=12182&title=photo242&cat=500)
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Need a little advise, when I construct my transom, do I put the cap on top of the transom edge, or do I tie into the the transom with the edge of the cap.
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I laid the cap back on top of my transom and tied it in.
Are you asking if you need to cut the cap to get to the transom?
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I am enclosing the transom and capping it. I think you didn't enclose yours if I'm not mistaken. I will be using wood and putting a slight crown in the transom cap. So do I attach the cap to the transom or vice vs.
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Need a little advise, when I construct my transom, do I put the cap on top of the transom edge, or do I tie into the the transom with the edge of the cap.
Tie it in. you can either leave the core low enough to use as a shelf (I will go out to the shop and get a picture for you) or glue cleats to attach your cap into the hull.
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I am enclosing the transom and capping it. I think you didn't enclose yours if I'm not mistaken. I will be using wood and putting a slight crown in the transom cap. So do I attach the cap to the transom or vice vs.
You're correct in I didn't close in my transom on the 170.
Spend some time in the 222 and 222FB forums and I think you'll get a lot of your answers.
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Thanks Cally
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You can see how I did mine here. I like to leave extra material on things so the transom core was higher than the original gunnel cap on the outside.
(http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/yy167/dirtwheelsfl/IMG_1011.jpg)
Then I measured my crown and put the knees in to that height. (After I cut the bevel and crown off of the transom core. Got to be beveled flat to make up for transom angle) I just butted the new cap flush with the top of the core, didn't put it on top.
(http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/yy167/dirtwheelsfl/IMG_1393.jpg)
All tied in on this page...
http://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=4582.90
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Nice dirt thats what I was after. did you screw in or just tab. How hard was that 3/4 inch to bend. Think I'm going to use 1/2 for the cap and maybe 1/4 for the cabinet
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DW's pic are way better than what I can offer... :salut2:
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I used temporary cleats on the inside of the knees to hold it down while I tabbed on the outside of the knees. Then took those out and tabbed the rest of it. You can see how I did the outside connection, temporarily screwed til the epoxy cured, taken out, filled and tabbed.
I let that cap piece sit in the shop for awhile with some weight in the middle and it pretty much locked the curve in it...
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What did you use as cleats.
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You can kinda see in that last pic. Just some 1x1 or something...
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Got into the grind today, most of the transom removed and it was soaked. Also got into the stringers and the foam is wet at the back, amazing how much the stuff weighs when its wet. Gonna cut up a little further and check it hope it's dry.
Has anyone done a rebuild and not re-foamed the stringers?
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The best way I found to do the transom cap is making a mold takes a little time but you save a lot of time in fairing. I molds for a lot of the things I did just so I didn't have to fair fiberglass. Sounds like it would cost more and take more time but at the end of the day you wont need so much fairing compound or all the time that goes into fairing. Here are some pictures of how I did mine.
(http://i1294.photobucket.com/albums/b605/jrahdert/222%20Aquasport/TransomMold2_zps13954485.jpg) (http://s1294.photobucket.com/user/jrahdert/media/222%20Aquasport/TransomMold2_zps13954485.jpg.html)
(http://i1294.photobucket.com/albums/b605/jrahdert/222%20Aquasport/TransomMold4_zpse3fc7e72.jpg) (http://s1294.photobucket.com/user/jrahdert/media/222%20Aquasport/TransomMold4_zpse3fc7e72.jpg.html)
(http://i1294.photobucket.com/albums/b605/jrahdert/222%20Aquasport/TransomMoldglass_zpse76cba3b.jpg) (http://s1294.photobucket.com/user/jrahdert/media/222%20Aquasport/TransomMoldglass_zpse76cba3b.jpg.html)
(http://i1294.photobucket.com/albums/b605/jrahdert/222%20Aquasport/Transomcapglassed_zps366e02d9.jpg) (http://s1294.photobucket.com/user/jrahdert/media/222%20Aquasport/Transomcapglassed_zps366e02d9.jpg.html)
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Very nice!!
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That's sweet J, I can get the melmaline but where did you get the cap piece. Do you still have the mold?
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So I did some damage, got the wood out and began some rough grinding. Jeeze lots of bondo used on this boat. Bondo dust sux! even through the respirator.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_0171.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=12230&title=img-0171&cat=500)
Took a good chunk out of it but still have a little more grinding to go.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_0169.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=12229&title=img-0169&cat=500)
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One more
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_0168.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=12231&title=img-0168&cat=500)
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No I don't still have the mold. Waxed over the transom of a 19.6 gelled it and glasses it I used that for my mold but sold it didn't have a use for it and made more money then I had in it haha
The bondo stuff is most likely bonding puddy that they used to get the old transom core to stick to the hull. Sands easy but throws dust every!!
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All the grey is bondo
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I need some help guys, I cant figure out what is going here. If you look at this picture you are looking at two sheets of clean glass. The yellowish one on the right is the hull side. The grayish one on the left is the inner transom skin ground and clean. The bright grey in between them is bondo. I cant figure out why. Has anyone else run into this? How do proceed now, can I glass to the transom surface with the bondo under it?
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_0175.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=12233&title=img-0175&cat=500)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_01761.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=12237&title=img-01761&cat=500)
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The grey, as said before is probably bonding putty. It is polyester based just like bondo and it looks and sands like bondo. They use it to bond the floor to the stringers and I guess they used it stick the transom wood to the glass.
Most mix resin with cabosil and whip it up into a smooth thickened almost "putty" and lay fillets in all corners to help the glass transition the edges. They may have just slapped a bunch of bonding putty in the corners and set the transom in it.
I would say you need to get as much off as possible. If you're worried about right in the corner, I wouldn't, you'll be laying a fillet in them and then glassing over that onto the bare glass you have now. Get as much off the bare glass as you can.
Are you using epoxy or poly on your rebuild?
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Rick gonna be using epoxy on the transom and below the floor and poly above. The grey mat you see in the picture spans the entire inner skin of the transom. What I'm asking is can I glass straight to it?
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_0179.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=12238&title=img-0179&cat=500)
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Yea, better get to clean glass. If theres some little depressions in the clean glass with it in there I wouldn't worry too much though, no need to dig em all out...
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Like Chris said, what I see in the pics is residual bonding stuff in the "pores" of the glass. I think you'll be fine.
Epoxy has some tenacious bonding power, like 200x better than poly but you want it to bond to as much glass as possible.
How thin is the outer skin? What is your layup schedule? A few layers of 1708 on the inside of the transom and onto the waxed/pva'd melamine to extend it up to the the new cap level? For tying it into the hull, maybe 3 with a 4, 8 and 12" overlap onto the bottom and sides??
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I can't believe all the bondo. There is a layer of bondo under that mat that you see in the picture. Also some voids under under the mat holding water. Gonna have to ground them out and fill.
Yes, Rick that was going to be my lay up schedule, I did all this work up till now so I'm not going to leave any soft spots. I'll grind out and fill. This one is shaping up to be a nightmere.
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I updated my post while you were typing yours - sorry.
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Has anyone else run into this layer of bondo?
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I'm in the same stage as you and do not have the bondo. After I removed all the wood and ground down to glass it was all clean glass. Did you remove your deck yet. I have a '77 and would like to what you have for stingers. If you look at my pictures you can see where I'm at. I picked up cosa for the transom and getting ready to start glassing.
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Hey I'm no master re-builder or anything, but I'm pretty sure this is no good and has to go. Still trying to figure out what they did back here.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/FullSizeRender2.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=12242&title=fullsizerender2&cat=500)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/FullSizeRender_1_.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=12243&title=fullsizerender-1&cat=500)
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Northfork, I haven't cut my floor out and wasn't going to until my transom was completed. I wanted to try and keep the boat somewhat square. But from the looks of your stringers they appear to be the same, at least they are in the stern where I've cut my floor to.
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Could that be a thin layer of mat that was in the face of the plywood core and the glass outer skin. That could be why you are getting bonding agent under the thin layer of glass.
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Hard to tell what is going on there, but sure looks like you have a partially delaminated outer layer of glass. I agree you'll need to grind that back to solid glass before building it back up.
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Well it's official, I'm in bondo hell. Looks like a previous transom repair 1/8 inch of bondo topped with a layer of mat, factory or handyman?. Past the 10 hour mark of grinding. What to do, junk yard or another 10 hours of grinding just on the transom.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_0186.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=12245&title=img-0186&cat=500)
Has anyone checked on grinding this much bondo, do you think I would need an air pak or ok with just a respirator.
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Hard to tell by the picture but the layup is
1. On top is Mat
2. 1/8 inch layer of Bondo
3. Transom Skin
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_01861.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=12246&title=img-01861&cat=500)
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I was starting to think about it maybe being a previous redo - did the floor look like it was original or had been cut?
I don't think they set transoms back then in bonding compound - I haven't seen any of the rebuilds with it here. Did the lower part of the transom look like it was repaired on the outside? Maybe behind some bottom paint? There was no reason to use "bondo" so I'm at a loss. If it was original they normally put the transom and the stringers in it while it was still in the mold and everything was wet on wet lamination when possible. Maybe it was a Monday morning or Friday afternoon hull? :shrug:
To get a good bond it must come out. What are you using on the grinder? A flap sandpaper wheel? They will each up glass in a flash. I used them all the way through my rebuild - 40 grit. I buy them at Home Depot.
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:archer2: I ground out the base of the stringer and they are bedded with it also
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If you look at this picture you can see that everything was bedded with this stuff.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_01681.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=12247&title=img-01681&cat=500)
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The stringers on my flatback were attached to the hull with some type of bonding putty. I'm certain it was original. Not sure if it the same as what you have, but I wouldn't be surprised.
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Thanks CLM, Yep that is what it is for sure. Today I started to grind it all off, same bedding as my stringers and keel so it is original. Guess that stuff was inexpensive for them cause they sure were liberal with it. I have areas that are 1/4 inch thick, crazy. I think I have about another days worth of grinding as today I got half of it off in 4 1/2 hours.
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You're not using a badassed enough tool/wheel if it's taking you that long to grind it out. Try the flap sander wheel. Hopefully you're using a 7" grinder (Harbor freight - I'm on my 3rd one on this rebuild)
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Rick using a 40 grit Diablo flap wheel, once the bondo gets hot it gums up the wheel. Also, being a 1/4 inch thick isn't helping. One more day should get it done.
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has anyone left the foam out of the stringers?
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Not that I recall.
You'll want it in place for its structural aspect. The added floation is often sited but it is there to mitigate the forces applied to stringers by the twisting of the hull, which is one of the main reasons for the stringer system.
To stiffen the hull.
Put it in.
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I agree with Capt Bob. You need to put the foam in the original trapezoid stringers. I'm no engineer, but I would think the only way you could even consider getting away with leaving the foam out is to make the stringers really thick, and even then you would have to install a pretty robust bulkhead system for latitudinal support of the main stringers.
In review.... Put foam back in the stringers.
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Agree with the above, and will add that 4# density foam is recommended for inside the stringers. The 2# stuff is great for flotation, but it doesn't offer the strength and rigidity of 4#.
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Thanks for the advise, it's hard to believe that the foam could add any structural value. My foam has basically disintegrated where it would bond anywhere or anything. I don't think I'm going to use any, haven't decided yet. Got everything ground out on the transom now I'm ready to start glasssing.
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it's hard to believe that the foam could add any structural value.
Hard to visualize maybe because one is looking at structural value as "strength" rather than function. :ScrChin:
Strength wise, you have the fiberglass walls (one on each side, top and bottom). This design works similar to a steel I-beam in concept in that the flex (shear of the side walls) is mitigated by the top and bottom walls acting in opposite directions. Still, the fiberglass walls are only so strong and foam itself is only so strong and their total strength is the sum of both. Still not really that strong. Therefore why add it?
Well by coring (or sandwich if you prefer) the walls of the stringer, you increase its resistance to shear though its overall "strength" increase is minimal as stated above. Add the trapezoidal shape (not really geometrically true but sounds good in marketing speak) aka a poor man's I-beam and you have a light, rigid, easy to manufacture and cost friendly structural element for your boat.
PS.... For all you cut and paste guys, it's been some time since I used the concept of shear and maybe that's the wrong term but hopefully the "idea" is understood.
Good luck.
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PS.... For all you cut and paste guys, it's been some time since I used the concept of shear and maybe that's the wrong term but hopefully the "idea" is understood.
Good luck.
Hmm, somehow I think that was directed at me :scrHead:. I think you conveyed that pretty well, CB.
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Nice Capt Bob that explanation makes a lot of sense. I see what you mean by longitudinal strength. I am going to beef them up a little, but I'm still leaning the route without foam.
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Well as any good c & p guy knows, your design is as only good as its attachment so no matter how much you beef it up, how you stick it to the hull is what really matters.
In reality, we have seen several builds where the stringers are still sound even with soaked foam, only to be detached from the hull bottom.
Good luck. :thumright:
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Transom grinding done and clean, ready to start the glassing process.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_0194.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=12325&title=img-0194&cat=500)
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Did some patterning and a little mock up of the cap.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_0222.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=12352&title=img-0222&cat=500)
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Looks good. Did you decide on the transom sore yet.
Bet your glad your done grinding. (For now)
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Yes going with the 3/4 inch marine ply doubled up. I have already cut the first piece and discovered I have a little more grinding to do in the bottom corners. Also a little outward bow in the skin. What do you think of the crown? 37 inches from the keel.
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Also a little outward bow in the skin.
That is not good. I would recommend that you make some structure to reinforce the transom skin. For example, a sheet of 1/2" with some straight 2"x 4" backers. Do not allow that bow to be incorporated into your transom, it is an indication that some other surface is out of shape in your hull.
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I like the look of your cap mock up. I started to glass my transom and have let the glass run high. I am still playing with the crown ht on mine. I will cut the outer skin after I install my core. Maybe this weekend.
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North I plan on doing the same, I cut my transom core and couldn't get a smooth line. Can't wait till I have to cut the ark. Should be comical.
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North I plan on doing the same, I cut my transom core and couldn't get a smooth line. Can't wait till I have to cut the ark. Should be comical.
Temporarily attach a batten across the back with the curve you want to guide a skilsaw base. Probably take 3 passes while increasing blade depth. And you can angle the base to compensate for the transom angle to make the top of the core flat too...
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Dirt, a skill saw like a circular saw? I never tried to cut a curve with a circular saw.
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Yea just use a blade you don't like :mrgreen:
Itll cut fine as long as you don't have a huge curve (which you wont judging by crown youre after). Just make your first cut pretty shallow and increase your depth with 3 passes or so...
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Going to get my cloth tomorrow, does anyone have an Idea of how much 1708 and 1.5 oz I need for a transom and floor for a 22 - 2.
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Que
my transom ht at the center of the hull. Inside face to top is 37". That comes out to a 2" crown from top of gunwale
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That's right where I'm gonna be. Looks to be perfect to me
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I'm having a problem figuring my tabbing on my transom skin. If I Tab my skin I will have build up from tabbing. How do you get the skin flat to attach your core. I am looking at 3/16 th of an inch gap.
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The tabbing/lamination could be all done at the same time. Cut the laminations pieces long enough to include a 4, 8 and 12" overlay on the hull bottom and the hull sides. Here is an example:
http://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=9991.msg87558#msg87558
If you have to build up the open transom to get it to the full height use some melamine board - here is Shine's rebuild on a flatback - he cut out the majority of the old transom and left a lip all around to tie into.
http://forums.bateau2.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=11294&sid=e73f5114e6edb157799b560cd2e12b8a
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Thanks Rick but I am closing mine and using the melamine as a dam on the skin. I understand all that, the part I don't get is how to flatten out the inner skin after layup and tabbing. The tabbing in the corners where the tabbing is have created a 3/16" gap where the core will attach to the inner skin. I want this area flat so I don't have problems with the Glue ( filler putty) not getting a full seal or getting air between the lam. Hope that explains it a little better.
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QP, I know you're going to have a full transom and you could build it up all at once wet on wet, like in the first link I posted.
Have you already tabbed the perimeter of the transom separately? In corners where the glass overlaps previous overlaps, it'll build up quickly. 3/16" is like 6 layers of 1708.
I think we need some pics so we can see what you're doing.
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you do your tabbing in one shot, let it cure, grind back the edges and sand the biax stitching off.
Then, I mix up a little epoxy and woodflour (to something of a ketchup consistency) and wipe it over the transition. This last little trick ensures no air bubbles
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Que
Post a picture of what your talking about. Are you talking about the area of the transom that you filled in. If so I cut out a piece of glass that fit the cut out after a few layers and used that to get the inside face as flush as I could. Then glassed over that.
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thanks guys, Transom skin- 1 layer 1708. 3 inch tab. 2nd layer 1708. 6 inch tab. 3rd layer 1708. 10 inch tab. Then I put in transom core. In the center of the transom bettween the core and final skin there is a gap. Where the core meets transom where the tabbing has taken place is flush. The tabbing has caused this and I dont really want to fill it with another layer of 1708. Four would just be over kill.
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Basically the tabbing has created buildup which is not allowing me to get the core flush.
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Just use a deeper-notched trowel to spread the glue when you bed in the core. Should take up any deviation...
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Grind out the core to make it tapered. Or use a router to remove material, so its close to flush.
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That too^...
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Que Pasa
So what did you do with the transom core? Didn't give up did you. I was hoping you were going to pass my project so I could follow you.
I'm hoping to start adding layers of glass on the inside of my hull this weekend and working out where my bulkheads are going to be.
Chuck
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Chuck, No giving up here. Needed some supplies, silica, and waiting for a couple of days where we're assured of no rain. I think to solve my problem might try a layer of mat. Have'nt really decided yet.
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QP, if you can get some pics into your gallery we can help you post them. It would make everything SOOO much easier on the rest of us to see what you're encountering.
http://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=12725.0
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Que
That might be your best answer. use mat but tear the edges. Makes for a smooth transition. just cut the mat to fit the area that you need to build up. might be two layers. if you get it close you are good. I used a deep notched trowel to spread bedding expoxy
Chuck
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OK, here's my transom skin layup. It is 3 layers of 1708, one layer of 1.5 mat. My tabbing schedule was 6, 10 and 18.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_0265.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=12608&title=img-0265&cat=500)
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So the area I'm concerned about is above the original skin where the melamine is. But I think I will fill it with a layer of 1.5 mat.
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That looks good QP!
It may take more than one layer of mat - if you say it's 3/16" - to fill in the area above the old cutout. Cut the pieces to fit and clamp them at the top with spring clamps and flip them out of the boat. Then roll the resin on, flip one layer of cloth back in and roll/hard roll that in place, then repeat until it's filled - all wet on wet.
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Quick question om\n gluing together a core of two pieces of 3/4 inch ply. I know you guys are using mat and 1708 but are you using thickened epoxy?
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This is what I did - 2 layers of 3/4" marine plywood with 3/4oz, 1708 and 3/4oz between them. No need for thickened epoxy between them, just soak them real well with resin.
Make sure you are going to "clamp" them on something that is absolutely flat. Get the two layers lined up with the dry glass in between and then drill a "registration hole" the size of a dowel in the opposite corners of the material so you can tap an epoxy coated dowel into each corner to keep them aligned after you resin them up (Tip from DirtwheelsFL - thanks Chris) - they'll easily squirm around if you don't. You could do this with a nail or screw but then you'd have a hole to fill - using the dowel, it stays in forever and you sealed it with epoxy. Then pile everything you have to "clamp" the two layers together - I think I used 10 cinder blocks.
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Perfect Rick, I think I'll cut my crown pattern before I lam them together. !/2 rounded router bit good for the edges? What do you think of wrapping the inside face of the core with a layer of 1708 to seal it?
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I left the edges square. You might want to round over the inside edge where it will meet the hull side and hull bottom against the transom.
The inward edge of the core will be either against the hull sides, the hull bottom or under the new cap you're going to make, so it can be left square edge (make sure to fill the gap with thickened epoxy fillet all around the 3 sides when you glass the front of the core in)
As for the inside face (pointing toward the inside face of the transom), resin coat it and trowel (1/4"x 1/4" or 1/4" x 3/8" notch) thickened epoxy onto the inside face of the transom and clamp the core in. That's all you need.
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Filled in the area above the old skin with two more layers of 1.5 matt. I still have a 1/4 gap between where the cor will lay and the new skin. It seems that the 3 additional layers of tabbing are keeping the the core from sitting flush.
But I did get the crown cut and will glass my core tomorrow. Here's my crown of 1 1/2".
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_02661.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=12615&title=img-02661&cat=500)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_02681.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=12617&title=img-02681&cat=500)
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Nice curve on your transom. I made mine 1", and I think Carl's is 2". I think anything in this range looks good :great02:.
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Yea Craig, curve looks good. Still dealing with the gap, guess I'm just going to pull it all together with clamping an hope for the best.
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Do you have a straight edge short enough to lay from the bottom of the hull (inside) to the top of the extension and flat against the new skin? Like a 2' or 4' level? What does it show? If the extra tabbing along the bottom and sides is holding it out do what Joel said and grind out the core a little. If you see that you still need to build up the area above the old skin do that too.
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I don't mean this in a sh!tty way, but you are making this way more difficult than necessary. The easiest/most appropriate solution is to grind your core back to fit your tabbing. Filling that big of a gap with thickened epoxy will take up the gap, but thickened epoxy is fairly brittle and will end with a wavy outer skin (once you clamp).
To clamp and hope for the best on the transom isn't a good idea. This is the part of the hull that transfers ALL of theforces of the motor to the rest of the structure. If you don't have a solid laminate here you are going to have problems down the road.
Again, I would strongly recommend a different route than you are planning on taking. You are commuting a huge amount of time and effort into this project, you don't want to half-* any structural components. Please reconsider and make sure the transom is done correctly.
Please don't get upset with me over this post, I have only the best of intentions.
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Cally I did think about going that route believe me. My thoughts my were even if I ground out the core and it was no longer fare it too would create a wavy skin. Don't know about you, but I dont think that once that grinder hits the ply it will ever be fare. No offense taken I'm learning more and more as I go. I was going to leave the dam up and use the bolting method with 4x4's. Thanks for the thoughts and help. Also I cant be the only that has run into this.
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As someone who is in the midst of fighting non-fair outer surfaces, you really want to keep them as fair as possible. I think this is worse than all the grinding I did.
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QP, if I'm understanding you correctly, the entire core is standing off the transom a 1/4"? And you think that the 3 layers around the perimeter is causing this?
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Cally I did think about going that route believe me. My thoughts my were even if I ground out the core and it was no longer fare it too would create a wavy skin. Don't know about you, but I dont think that once that grinder hits the ply it will ever be fare. No offense taken I'm learning more and more as I go. I was going to leave the dam up and use the bolting method with 4x4's. Thanks for the thoughts and help. Also I cant be the only that has run into this.
I haven't seen where someone has reinforced to corner on the out skin and had such a gap spanning the center, which is why I had asked you to clarify quite a few posts back (at least I think it was your thread...). I could have possibly saved you a lot of this pain.
I have a hard time explaining these things on the internets. I'll PM you my number and we can talk if you want. I'll be home after 5:00 eastern time.
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Wow thanks thats a generous offer I'll give you holler around 7 or so. :nSalute:
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QP, if I'm understanding you correctly, the entire core is standing off the transom a 1/4"? And you think that the 3 layers around the perimeter is causing this?
If you guys remember I was posting how I was fighting through a 1/4 Inch of bondo in spots. I think, now I could be wrong but, I think my problem goes all the way back to the factory. I think that maybe that bondo was hiding some imperfection back there. I think they may have had the same problem back there and filled the void with bondo. Who knows, it is up to me to make it right. And Rick yes it is coming from the corners, they (the factory) tabbed also so theirs contributes too. Anyway I'll get it right with a little work, just gonna add glass till it meets right. Rather have the glass then the filler. Thanks.
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Finally got the core where I wanted it and got it glued.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_0278.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=12660&title=img-0278&cat=500)
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Now you're cooking :thumleft:
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Yep, looks good on the edges nice clean ooze with only one little air bubble on the rim. Glad I went with the the bolting method and I used aluminum I- beam with the melamine so nice and straight, I'm happy with how it looks so far. Clamps will come off Thursday. :singing:
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If you can do other stuff leave the clamps as long as possible - My experience with epoxy is you can never predict when it's going to harden. Leave it another day.
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Yep I can do that, seems to be hardening fine the bead that oozed out is already solid. I can fill the drain plug cut out in the mean time and start working on the console, always something else to do :danceSm:
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Skin bond
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_5285.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=12662&title=img-5285&cat=500)
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Anyone use the west system six 10 for fillets.
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Squeeze out looks good and complete. :sign0098:
I wouldn't use six10 for fillets. Cost is the main thing. Retail is like 20$ for a 6oz tube. Then there could be compability issues with other epoxies you use on your glass wet-out. Stuff is too thin for fillets anyhow, and the more you work it the thinner it gets.
You could mix a half gallon of your own for the same price. And use the same resin as you glass with to ensure its compatible...
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Que
Looks good. Bet your glad that part is over.
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Lots o' grinding, gonna be back at it again when I tackle the cap.
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Got the drain plug hole filled
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_0286.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=12670&title=img-0286&cat=500)
And Framed up the cap
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_0285.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=12669&title=img-0285&cat=500)
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Moving right along!
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Has anyone used Azek board on top of stringers for backing for tower and console?
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The best thing for tower installs is thru-bolting it through something OR putting some metal plating down under the sole, drill and tapping the holes.
IMO the composite boards like Azek and Trex are not strong enough to trust screwing into them with lags or something like that to anchor a t-top or tower. It may be ok for a console unless it is the main thing to grab onto in the boat. I have some trex in the bilge of my 230 holding the 40gal freshwater tank in place. I thru-bolted everything and the material has held up well for 8 or so years.
You can try some tests to see if it'll hold a lag.
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I am using it for my bilge drain plug knotch and I may use it to support my floor on top of stringers, since I'll only be setting a console.
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Ready for glass, really happy it straight as an arrow.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_0297.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=12674&title=img-0297&cat=500)
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:thumleft:
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Que
Looks good.
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Transom done, now on to bigger and better things. lol. 3 more layers of 1708 4,6,9 inch tabs. Que pasa amigo.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_0302.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=12679&title=img-0302&cat=500)
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Time to rip that deck out. Whats your plan on the stringers. Are you going to remove the foam?
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North, I will do the cap next. Then on to the stringers and yes the foam is coming out. I'm thinking corecell for the floor and bulkhead the seams.
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What is everyone coring their caps with?
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I recored the front of my cap only, the rest wasn't cored. I used Plascore and where I was going to through bolt things I used some coosa that Gran sent me.
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Thanks looked like mine had 1/4" ply that was covered with mat. All rotted out. So you just cored where the rod holders were and the fore deck.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_03061.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=12710&title=img-03061&cat=500)
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My rod holders are metal plates, so no backing needed.
http://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=10101.660
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Do you think my cap will be strong enough without coring? I dont think your cap is the same, you have a little more support from your liner.
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If the coring is rotted out, replace it. Looks like you have the curve locked into the cap so you should be good to go while recoring.
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whats a good material
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You want something that will hold a screw unless you are going to thru-bolt everything. Nothing wrong with plywood again if you seal it correctly and then seal the holes when you drill into it. It'll outlast you.
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I'd like to try and keep the weight down, so I want to go with somthing lighter.
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Que
I am going to use 1/2" plywood. There isn't much material so not sure how much wt. you are going to save. I am looking forward to see what you are doing with the transom cap. I have been grinding the center portion of the interior of the hull. Now ready to add glass and bulkheads. Outside of stringers and up the chine done.
How was it removing the cap?
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Hey North, looks like I'll be going with divinycell. I really don't want anymore wood in the boat. The cap was pretty easy, had to grind a couple but not to many. I built the form while it was on the boat just a simple structure to support the curve. Had 4 people and we did just fine wasn't that heavy. Now the grinding begins again as the whole core is rotted.
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I only have one place that needs to be repaired on the cap. All the rest looks good on mine. I might try to get at it on the boat. One step at a time. Want to get ready for the deck and we will see. Gotta get a fuel tank very soon.
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Hows that cap coming out.
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been really busy, but just started grinding today. should be done manana.
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Got rolling on the cap, 1/2 done. Side two tomorrow.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_0418.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=12918&title=img-0418&cat=500)
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Keep it rolling :thumleft:
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looking good
progress is a good thing
Northfork
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Cap coring is complete.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_0419.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=12919&title=img-0419&cat=500)
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Looks like it'll be nice and stout. :thumleft:
Looks like it'll be a close fit along the sides.
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Yep in that one section, noting the proper size bolts wont fix. :acclaim01:
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Cap is on, not to bad either. Solid as rock, all cuts for transom cap section look good and line up perfectly. Now on to the floor, cutting will start in the am, hoping for no surprises.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_0425.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=12961&title=img-0425&cat=500)
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I like the width on the new transom cap :great02:
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Thanks dirt, obviously its not in yet. I went with 10 inches, and I'm gonna wait till the knees are in so I can tie it all together. I got lucky with the alignment of the original cap. Some advise to others make sure you dont cut the outside corners to low.
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Looks really good. Have fun with the deck. Can you measure from the casting deck face to the front edge of the tank.
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Got a late start today but I put a dent in it and so the fun begins. Foam outboard of the stringer on the starboard side soaked and full of mold. Good news foam in the stringers is dry. Bad news port stringer cracked up by the bow.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_0428.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=12962&title=img-0428&cat=500)
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North, I'll measure it in the morning for ya.
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Got a liitle more done today, had the grinder out and went through some serious cement. At least that's what I'm calling it. Got the tops ground down and started on the foam. Starboard side was saturated and moldy, port side totally dry. Boat must have been the leaning tower of piza.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_0433.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=12970&title=img-0433&cat=500)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_0432.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=12969&title=img-0432&cat=500)
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Nice progress QP - weird that one side was soaked and one not. :?:
Bad news port stringer cracked up by the bow.
Take a good look at the bonding of the stringer "system" to the hull, and the stringers in general to the bottom part of the "system" (the part that bonds to the hull). If they/all are sound, then you can repair the stringer/system with some epoxy and cloth and save yourself a ton of work. I would think about lightly grinding all of the stringers and bottom part and then covering them all with a layer or two of 1708 and epoxy. Then you can build up the stringer heights a variety of ways.
Just trying to save you a ton of work. I would have saved mine but there were wide open cracks and loose to the hull, in spots.
The little bit I can see of the stringers don't look too bad.
Hawgleg, the liner sides you see here up the hull sides under the gunnels might be what you have?
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Yea Rick, I got a good like at the bonding and all is intact. The port stringer is cracked in the very front where the first foam fill port was, just the wall itself not into bond. So I think it's salvageable. Tomorrow should be interesting, day three on striping the floor alone.
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Que
If you get a chance to measure the existing tank location that would be great.
I wrote everything down but am questioning my notes.
Looks like your really having some fun now.
Chuck
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North 33 3/4", now take a close look at my tank from the previous pics. Yes, you guessed it, not original so I'm afraid that it wasn't put exactly where the orig was. But, the remnants of the original cradle bottom are there and it looks like the tank was centered. I would be interested as to what you measurements were.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_0435.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=12976&title=img-0435&cat=500)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_0436.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=12977&title=img-0436&cat=500)
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Man those stringers look new :thumleft:
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Thanks for the measurement. I will check mine later and let you know. The stringers do look like they are in good shape. Mine were as well. The center wood core stringer was bad from mid tank to the stern. Just wet mush under the glass. I removed it and added glass across the hull.
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Yep, I'm guessing my keel board will need to be removed. The stringers are in good shape except for a crack in the port one just forward of the casting platform. I should be able to fix it with some coosa and glass. I plan putting a layer or two of 1708 on the stringers after I add the lift.
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My tank measurement was 34.25" back from casting deck so yours was really close. I glassed my knees in this weekend. I gotta get more supplies and get the bulkheads in.
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I started grinding and got the center stringer out. Lots more grinding to do. Are you replacing the center stringer?
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I cut a 3" PVC pipe in half and will glass that down instead. I cant see how that center stringer did much. With my overlaps I have 3 additional layers of 1708
along the keel. Hurry up I guess we have some bad weather coming this week.
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Only got the inside of the port stringer and the inner hull betwen the stringers so far. got 12 hours under my belt already. Slow goin, grinding sucks, my ears are ringing.
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By the way, what good is the pvc doing?
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I put it in to support the tank
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//646/CIMG0740.JPG)
The center one allows water to run from front to back
Look through this prtion of my rebuild
http://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=10101.msg106490#msg106490
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How about some help on the transom knees. I will be joining them to the original stringers. I was thinking of using 1 in coosa. Any Ideas?
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Take a peek in the FB rebuild forum and look at how some of the rebuilders did theirs - I didn't close in my transom.
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(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/735/knees_tabbed.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=13004&title=knees-tabbed&cat=735)
This is how I did my knees. I had 1 3/4" Coosa left over from the transom.
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Thanks Rick I did look, but found this may be easier.
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North will you be extending the original stringer back? I also want to extend it up the support my cap.
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Que
I am not extending the existing stringers back. I glassed the back sides solid. I am going to extend the line of the knees up to the cap with corelite. I had coosa left over and that was as high as I could make them. All the force is well below the tops as it is now. I am going to engage the deck with the knees and the transom and that will be overkill.
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Here is a pic from Craig's rebuild
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/knees.jpg)
http://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=10287.msg108342#msg108342
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data//500/IMG_2671.JPG)
Built like an M-1 Abrams tank :thumleft:
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Thanks guys, do you think 1 inch cooosa would be sufficient. Of course tabbed in with 3 layers.
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Can you double it?
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I have 1/2 inch and was going to double that with a layer of 1708 between.
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Looks like Aaron used 3/4" penske and tied it into the hull well
(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a148/recklesabandon727/1968%2022-2%20flatback%20rebuild/IMG_20131202_144428.jpg)
(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a148/recklesabandon727/1968%2022-2%20flatback%20rebuild/IMG_20131210_161906.jpg)
http://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=9842.msg114017#msg114017
Here is Chris's knees - 1" Corecell with lots of glass
the knees are more there for forming a box to hide rigging than anything
(http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/yy167/dirtwheelsfl/DSCF0236.jpg)
(http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/yy167/dirtwheelsfl/DSCF0237.jpg)
http://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=4582.msg39769#msg39769
Maybe they can talk about what the intent of their construction plan was at the time.
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I think 1" should be ok as long as I tab it in good. It will make another support point besides the stringers.
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Your transom enclosure will also add some strength/support to the transom. I think you will be fine with 1".
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Got a break in the rain and finished up the grinding, man am I glad to have that behind me.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_0469.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=13014&title=img-0469&cat=500)
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Today I started fitting the molded stringer sections into the hull. I will use pvc pipe as a drain tube in the bottom of the molds.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_0480.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=13027&title=img-0480&cat=500)
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Que
Nice work on extending the stringers. Are you doing knees and if so are you going to tie them into your stringers.
I finished glassing in the port knee last night.
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North, I am going to put knees in. My thinking is extending the stringers back, and tabbing them in. Then doing something like Craig did with the knees. I keep changing back and forth as to whether to do the knees first or the stringers. Got some more work done today, I got some 1 1/2" PVC pipe and glassed in the drains, also reinforced the crack in the port stringer. I got the extensions on the stringers fitted also.
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If you did the knees after the stringers are you going to put the knees on top of them or along side. Seem like if you did the knees first you could notch you
stringer extension around them.
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I thought about doing it that way but I'm going to do them separately and join them after.
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1/2 inch or 3/4 inch nida for the floor. Oops I meant coosa.
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Has anyone used core lite?
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Not me.
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Fletch is though
http://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=11282.msg131764#msg131764
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Spoke to the guys at Barnegat light Fiberglass they couldn't say enough good things about it. Looks like I'm going with the corelite.
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Que Pasa in the house. Got half the belly glassed, and tabbed in the knees. Tomorrow the stringer caps will go in.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_0505.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=13038&title=img-0505&cat=500)
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:thumleft:
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Wow, Busy weekend and looks good.
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Got some more done today. Got one of the extensions tabbed in, one down one to go. 3 layers of tabbing on the knees and the stringer, sould be plenty strong rofl2
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_0506.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=13039&title=img-0506&cat=500)
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Stringer extensions done, on to the fuel tank. Wow glad that's over with. I actually feel like I've accomplished something.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_0507.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=13043&title=img-0507&cat=500)
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:c029: very nice work :thumleft:
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Thanks Rick, sorry for the grainy shot, it was getting dark. I'll shoot a better one in the morning :salut2:
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I actually feel like I've accomplished something.
Savor the moment! I often go months without feeling like I've done anything! You're doing a great job-keep it up :thumleft:
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I am planning out my tank cradle and I keep going back and forth in my head of whether to mold the bulkheads like the stringers or just use coosa and glass it in. Anyone with any suggestions, I'm all ears? I think I'm going with a poly tank.
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Que
Those stringers look great.
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got my first good epoxy burn today :103:
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Mucho trabajo,
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_0509.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=13044&title=img-0509&cat=500)
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Labor of Love :thumleft:
Can you tie the hull sides into the bottom with some tabbing? I know you've not popped your liner and cap (or have you?) but that would be the easy way to stiffen up the hull - do what northfork did. Can you say battleship :laugh03:
Looking really good :72:
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Got done with the 1708 on the bottom. Anyone have any suggestions on a fuel tank. Does anyone know what the original size tank was?
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Today I finished with my second and last layer of 1708 on the bottom. Looking around for a fuel tank. I also went with 3/4 inch corelite for my floor. My goal is to have the floor installed by Dec 1. To dark for picture will take one in the am. I ran out of raka epoxy and finished up with the west system I had left over. Ha, I did mix a tiny bit on top. I"m curious to see what happens it was a small section 34 inches by 18 inches, worst case I grind it out.
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Que Pasa
Do you still have your original tank. I can measure my old one if you want. I adding 12" in length to my new one. I had it made by a company here on Long Island. When I was picking my tank up they were sending a tank to North Carolina so if you want his contact info I can send that to you as well. I think it was Alloy metal works.
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http://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=9353.0
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Yes Bob that was the company. Phil is really nice to work with. Seems to be the go to guy up here.
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Thanks guys, I was looking at poly since I wasn't going with a deck hatch. Dont the aluminum ones need to be sealed with glass?
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If you have good airflow around an aluminum tank you don't have to do anything to them.
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I was looking at poly since I wasn't going with a deck hatch.
You plan to install below deck and cover over with no access, correct?
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Yes
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Well then, since you're sealing the tank in, poly might give you a longer life because it will sweat under there.
As stated in other rebuilds, allow for expansion and mount it accordingly. We've seen poly tanks chafe when :thumright: not secured properly and end up leaking way before their lifetime.
Good luck.
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Thanks Bob, but after searchin the net for a poly tank I finally gave up and ordered a custom aluminum.
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Does anyone have the measurement of the original console base from the casting platform. I seem to have lost mine, I thought I gave it to north but cant seem to find it in the thread.
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Que
I have the measurement at home in my log book. I will send it later.
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thanks north starting to plan out my floor
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Que
Are you using your old console?
Who did you order your tank from?
North
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North yes I'm redoing the old console, going for the original look, no tower or t-top. And The tank is being made custom by a metal shop a friend of mine owns. It'll be 80 x 24 x 9, 76 gal.
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Looking for opinions on my floor, I dont plan on adding a tower or t-top. I was going to raise the floor 3 inches, I'm wondering if I can get away with 1 1/2"?
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Que
The console was set back from the face of the front casting deck 28 1/2". (Not the lip the front face of the console)
I'm going up 1 1/2" on my deck as well unless I hear anything from others that it should go higher.
I made my new tank 84" long.
Chuck
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Gran, how far forward did you move your fuel tank? And do you feel you placed it right.
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Gran, how far forward did you move your fuel tank? And do you feel you placed it right.
Here's a link to a post he made stating the tank location.
http://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=12339.msg124523#msg124523
He always seemed happy (he should be) with the ride so I'd say yes the builder placed it in the right location for his particular rebuild.
Good luck. :thumright:
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Thanks Bob, I will be putting a 200 4 stroke on, so not quite as much weight. Guess I should be somewhere in that vicinity though.
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Anyone else care to chime in?
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Have you read through the early model rebuilds in this forum? Some made the corrections to the CoG with fuel tank placement.
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i have my tank quite a bit forward but it isnt quite as long or as many gallons. my tank is 62 gallons
(http://cdn.greatlakesskipper.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/thumbnail/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/i/m/image_70609.jpg)
the aft bulkhead of the tank coffin is 8 ft forward of the transom
(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a148/recklesabandon727/1968%2022-2%20flatback%20rebuild/IMG_20140127_115810.jpg)
just 3 or 4 inches aft of the aft tower legs
(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a148/recklesabandon727/1968%2022-2%20flatback%20rebuild/KIMG044224.jpg)
even though yours is an osprey and mine is a flatback its still a good comparison. on plane with a full tank of fuel the boat rides nice and level, no tabs needed. and minimal tabs needed with both wells full. i also have my 3 trolling motor batteries below deck forward of the fuel tank
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Thanks for the replies, I'm GUESSING I should move it as far forward as possible. There will be no tower or t-top so the only other weight forward will be the batts. I dont want to be to far forward cause there is no correction for that, no trim tab can fix that. That's why this forum is great, so many have been there before. I have read the rebuilds, I have found some placements, not many. And hardly any that commented after the fact as to whether they think they placed them properly. Reaching out for help from the community. I'm sure North and a couple others are coming up on this too, so the info will be helpfull to a bunch, Thanks.
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Anyone else care to chime in?
Why not.
Fuel is an ever changing weight in/on your hull so logic would dictate that you want its location to be as close to the center of gravity as possible so as to have the least effect on same. Since Aquas had the fuel tank located in the general vicinity of the center console, I'd venture to say that was about the CG of the hull (just behind the console).
It's where you stand to operate the boat and it gave the best ride. So unless you are moving stuff around (console forward or back) or increasing tank size (longer toward stern) I would think mounting it basically where it originally was, is a safe bet.
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I would have to agree with you bob, but something has to be said as to why Gran and others moved them farther up.
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Que
Putting the motor on a bracket will change the center of gravity. That is why guys move the tanks forward. I made my tank a little longer then original and plan
on installing it 10" forward of original. Of course I have a long way to go to see if this all works out.
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Holy liquid asset, 10 inches? Are you putting a t-top on also? I don't want to blow the tank placement, cause once it's in it ain't coming out. To far forward and the old porpoise effect which I don't think can be fixed. Tabs can at least help out if it's to far back.
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Looks like Aaron nailed it!
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Que
Yes T top for sure and bait well/ leaning post combo.
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Que - I changed the whole original design on mine. My 170 had the fuel tank inside the console sitting on the sole. I buried the new tank under the sole and while the new tank's capacity is the same as the original, the form factor is longer and a little wider. Based on my usage for the past 30 years I usually only had a 1/2 tank of fuel (I premix oil and gas and 12 gal equals 1 qt of oil, so it's easy to remember - I mix in multiples of 6 or 12). I placed the aft end of the tank at the aft end of the console so it sits pretty much where the original did, weight wise with 12 gals.
I bought a used jackplate and added some other stuff and will end up with a 7 1/2" set back of the engine. I am putting 3 batteries in the front part of the console which should compensate for the set back. If I fill the tank to 24 gal I may have to use a little trim until I burn the fuel back to 12 gals.
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Thanks Rick, I just don't want to go to far forward. I'm hoping some other 22-2 owners will chime in and help me out. I won't have the same amount of weight as most, I wont be adding a t-top or tower.
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You just need to offset the bracket you'll have. Maybe 3 batteries, two for a 24v trolling motor and one for starting the engine, in the front of the console somehow will do it.
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I didn't plan on having a trolling motor, so just two batteries.
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So I have all my bulkheads cut and ready, glassed the bottom of my fuel tank cradle, and picked up my new tank today. All parts are ready for assembly. But, I am going to wait till I glass my stringer caps in, then I will use the bulkhead angles to lock in the stringer extensions. Pic of the finished floor of my cradle, i have a small amount of overhang to grind off, but I'm happy with it, absolutely no air bubbles.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_0573.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=13172&title=img-0573&cat=500)
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Looking good!
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No air bubbles is a good thing. You are now officially ahead of me.
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North we are even because I think I'm done till spring, temps are not looking good for glassing. :cool2:
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Both of you did a great job in the time you had :08:
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Thanks Rick. Wish I had the temps in our favor a little longer.
Que . I feel I'm ahead of where I would be but wish I could keep going.
I have to replace my fuel tank in my Mako so that's going to be my winter project.
No small task. T-top and console have to be removed along with all cables and electronics.
Then I hope I don't have any water or fuel issues with my foam.
Chuck
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Good luck with your Mako, I think Tues, Wed I may sneak in glassing my tank cradle in. Then I'll call it quits for the season. Looking at these parts, all ready to be put in is killing me.
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I know the feeling - I have a bunch of things I can spray with gelcoat but it was always too windy the last few weekends - today its raining :roll: I am on vacation this week so I'm bound to get at least one good day to spray everything.
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You Fla boys are spoiled, I wish I had all year to work on it. Oh but wait I won't be here anyway, I'll be in Costa Rica. Lol.
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My main problem is I work outdoors under a tarp so I'm exposed to the elements i.e. wind and cold and yes we do get cold here - I remember standing at the school bus stop as a kid and seeing 19 degrees F on bank sign across the street. So we do get cold but the beauty of southern FL is that we are back up to the 50s by 10 AM. Bad part is that you can't work with resin in the cold - epoxy takes a super long time to set. If you're using poly it helps a little in the set time, which you need.
Are you moving to Costa Rica?
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Spend my winters there for the last 6 years.
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Que
I no longer like you. Costa Rica for the winter. Have fun.
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:49:
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It's funny, my wife and I were talking about visiting there, just before you posted.
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Look me up if you go. What part were you going to visit.
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No idea - it was a passing comment by my wife. Do you recommend a place?
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Country is really diverse, climate changes everywhere, so it depends on what your after. Northwest province dry for the next couple months, mid central will be dry with few showers and far south will be mainly dry but could have rain any day. During the months of Dec thru March in the northwest province you will be hard pressed to even see a cloud. And of course there is the rain forest and volcano's.
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Took advantage of the nice 67 degree temps and glassed in my tank cradle bulkheads and that will officially do it until spring.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_0607.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=13202&title=img-0607&cat=500)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_0153.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=13203&title=img-0153&cat=500)
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Looks good Que - nice clean work. :nSalute:
Hope you don't lose all these acquired fiberglass skills while down south for the winter ;-)
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Que
Great work. High here was 45 degrees. I was hoping to do some work but nada.
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Thanks guys, hope everyone has a healthy winter.
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Back at it, started on the console today. Got it all ground out and ready for rebuild.
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Just a heads up to everyone Home depot has 4 x 8 sheets of 3/4 inch pvc board for 98 dollars.
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Got to work and managed to get the tank cradle finished and glassed in...
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_0949.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=13966&title=img-0949&cat=500)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_0947.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=13965&title=img-0947&cat=500)
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Nice clean work :nSalute:
I'm surprised that after that long winter down south that we didn't have to re-train you on working with glass :85:
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Must have been all that surfboard work, never really lost it. :nSalute:
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Then...God created 5200!!!
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_0956.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=13969&title=img-0956&cat=500)
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Today I finished fabricating my stringer caps, I will get them glassed in on the next sunny day.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_0958.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=13977&title=img-0958&cat=500)
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Anyone care to chime in on deck layup schedule (glass). I will be using 3/4 coosa. Was thinking 1.5 mat on bottom, 1.5 mat covered by 1708 on top.
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Putting the stringer caps on, what a pain in the ass. The starboard stringer is up to 3/4 of an in inch lower than the port at the bow. Looks like they leveled it with the wiring troft. That's why I had to grind all that bondo off the stringer. Trying to get the stringers level is frustrating.
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Que, i may have missed it when reading through your post but what material did you build your stringer caps out of?
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2 layers of 3/4 inch coosa, they should be glassed in tomorrow
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Got the stringer caps glassed in finally. 2 layers 3/4" coosa. So now the stringers have 3 layers of 1708, should be pretty stout.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_09621.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=14070&title=img-09621&cat=500)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_0964.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=14069&title=img-0964&cat=500)
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Can anyone tell me about the bolt pattern ffor a Porta bracket. Do any of the bolts fall outsde of the stringers?
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Can anyone tell me about the bolt pattern ffor a Porta bracket. Do any of the bolts fall outsde of the stringers?
Do a search on here for "Porta bracket mounting template". Your work looks great!
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Thanks CLM been long hard road. I cant seem to find anything in the search.
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Sorry, only seems to work if you leave out "mounting". Here is the link.
http://classicaquasport.com/smf/index.php?topic=12160.msg122457#msg122457
Bottom line, it fits between the stringers.
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Thanks CLM, Hope the bolt lines up above and below the floor support too.
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Got a little more done, fuel tank, wiring chases and bilge painted. Now ready to start the patterning for the floor. Onward and upward.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_1026.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=14326&title=img-1026&cat=500)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_10271.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=14327&title=img-10271&cat=500)
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Looking good QP !!
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Looking real good. What are you going to use for the deck material.
Do you have any pictures of how you mounted the tank.
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North I used Pascoes method. I glued (5200) 4 two inch strips length wise on the bottom of the tank. I had feet welded on the four corners of the tank, I glued (5200) the tank to the cradle allowing it to form a gasket. I then came back after the gasket formed and drilled the feet and screwed them into the glass.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_0956.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=13969&title=img-0956&cat=500)
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Nice that's what I did on my tank replacement on my Mako this past winter. So far so good.
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I switched out the corelite and I will be going with the Coosa for the deck. The corelite was just to heavy.
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Got back at it, patterned and cut the floor pieces. Ready for glass.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_1973.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=14709&title=img-1973&cat=500)
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Nice!
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Looks great. Glad to see you back at it again. Getting the floor cut out feels like its starting to come together.
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I am ready to bed my floor. Anyone have any ideas on a mix for bedding the floor in, other than making my own glue. I am worried I won't have enough time after all the time it takes to mix my own. Anyone using anything good?
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Que
Not where you are at yet but I was looking at Arjay.
Would like to hear some feedback on this as well.
Northfork
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I used epoxy with cabosil and I mixed it up with one of these to less than peanut butter consistency - mixes it very quickly and makes it nice and fluffy. You can spray it off with a hose to clean it.
(http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/productImages/400/fa/fa4449dd-465b-4c5d-bf11-c1ec7e831160_400.jpg)
Then I took a gallon ziplock bag, put the epoxy in and cut the corner off (about 1/2" opening) to make a squeeze bag. I then made an "S" on the top of everywhere the floor touched. Epoxy has a pretty long set up time, especially after you get it out of the mixing container, so its not a rush to get it done, unlike poly.
Your floor is in pieces so it makes it easy to work with - mark the first front edge on the stringers, tilt the floor section up, have someone hold it vertical (you don't have to cover every inch of the stringers so they don't have to lift it up off the stringers), squeeze the epoxy onto the stringers/bulkheads/ edge lip and then set the bag somewhere, like in a bucket so you don't make a mess. Then gently lower the floor section into the epoxy. Have some weight ready to weigh down the entire floor when it's bedded - I used cinder blocks.
Repeat for each section until you work your way out of the boat. Then bring in the weights - you can set them in from outside the boat along the stringers, etc. I'd give it a few days to harden well.
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Thanks Rick, but my floor is a whole piece and I fear that after the mixing process, I wont have enough time to spread out the entire boat. For me it seems, the larger the amount of epoxy mixed the faster the set up time. Last time I tried I wasted a half gallon! :c029:
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North I was wondering about the rjay too. I though I heard some where that it wasn't compatible with the epoxy. ???
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Floor is glassed, ready to go.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_01051.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=14775&title=img-01051&cat=500)
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Thanks Rick, but my floor is a whole piece and I fear that after the mixing process, I wont have enough time to spread out the entire boat. For me it seems, the larger the amount of epoxy mixed the faster the set up time. Last time I tried I wasted a half gallon! :c029:
Mine was a whole piece too. You won't need that much epoxy (use slow mix and you'll have 45 mins or more?) to stick it down and with the zip lock it goes fast. With help you can drop the floor in, in a few minutes after you lay the glue bead.
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I only get about 20 minutes before It tacks up, how are you getting 45, that would be nice.
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"Slow" should give you plenty of time - when it cools off (70s) down here I get days (it seems) before it hardens, using the slow mix.
Once you mix (use that mixer I showed) get it in the bag and squeeze it out onto the stringers - now it gives you more time because it's not in the bucket or bag. I would venture to guess that you could squeeze out all the required glue in 5 mins. It goes fast.
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Rick you saidd you got away with a 1/2 gallon? That's awesome, I'm thinking I'm going to need a lot more than that. I'd rather error on the side of to much rather than to little. I'm thinking a gallon and a half?
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Oh, and just for the record I spoke with Chris from Arjay. He advised that their product is not compatible for use with Epoxy. So there you have it.
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One more milestone complete, it's good to be standing on a floor!
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_9968.jpeg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=14889&title=img-9968&cat=500)
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A major milestone passed. :cheers:
So how much putty did you end up making?
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Wow man now your cooking. I see you also built hatch to the rear. Really good looking job.
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Thanks guys, Rick you were right. I mixed up and used two gallons and that even filled the 3/4 inch gap on the sides. I got creative with the hatch, I used some pvc board (the white inner) and cut out the shape, then routed out the center portion. Much easier then making a mold, at least I think it was.
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👍 nice work! Should be getting mine in here soon! Can't wait to be able to stand on it.
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Anyone know what bracket blue agave used. I tried to message him but no response.
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He used the Armstrong 30" setback wide body. It's the same model I'm putting on my 200 CCP
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He used the Armstrong 30" setback wide body. It's the same model I'm putting on my 200 CCP
^ This is correct. It's a 30" setback with a 30" wide floatation chamber. I believe I responded to your PM, my apologies if you did not get my response.
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Were you guys able to find them used or did you order them.
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Ordered new from manufacture.
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Me too. You don't see many brackets of any kind on the used market. Plus, Armstrong custom builds the bracket to match your hull deadrise and transom angle. They ain't cheap, but it's a quality product.
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I guess I should get ordering.
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Que
Check out A&J marine welding also. A few people I know have used them on Makos and I
am thinking of doing the same with my Mako.
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Did a little,
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_06301.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16318&title=img-06301&cat=500)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_0631.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16319&title=img-0631&cat=500)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_0632.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16320&title=img-0632&cat=500)
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Good to see you back at it. Any progress is progress nonetheless.
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Looking good. Got to get that thing out of the driveway.
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Thank heaven for shrink wrap!
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Has anyone sand off the diamond plate on the casting platform? I'm wondering id the glass is thick enough to sand the texture off and then do non skid.
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I did - the pattern isn't that thick so no need to go crazy on it - figure 20 mils maybe?
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So it is doable Rick?
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Got my floor tabbed in, I now believe I'm making progress.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_0661.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16360&title=img-0661&cat=500)
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Rick isn't 20 mils like 3/4 of an inch? It cant be that deep.
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Yeah you're right :c023: I think I aimed for 10 mils when I was spraying my gelcoat and then sanded a lot of that off to get it shiny - so about 1/32" or less is how thick the non-skid is, on top of the gelcoat. I sanded mine down and then non-skid was applied (gelcoat and glass bead).
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When I sanded out my liner sides, I had a ton of voids. I'm worried that if I sand out the casting platform that deep I'm going to run into more of the same. My question is was there still plently of glass left for strength?
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You shouldn't have a problem. The non skid is molded in the gel coat. I doubt that you will need to grind into glass very much if at all.
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Anyone, whats your transom angle on you 22.2?
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I measured my '76 at 15 degrees.
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That's strange, mine measured 3 1/4 inches, which is 13 degrees.
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That's strange, mine measured 3 1/4 inches, which is 13 degrees.
Different animal, but my 1979 CCP measured 13 degrees too.
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I just went out to measure again. Mine is was an inboard originally if that helps. I've got 3.5" from the bottom of the trasnom to the inside of the square using the 14" inside-16" outside end of the square. I guess that puts me closer to 14 degrees.
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I guess they all can vary a degree or so. They do tell you to take the bottom of the square out to 22 inches minimum. I guess to rule out interference from a hook.
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14-15 degrees is a common angle. One degree either way variance is acceptable and is probably due to slight errors in measuring it.
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Got my casting platform sanded, began blending in my tabbing to the liner and my transom cap is ready for glass.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_06761.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16384&title=img-06761&cat=500)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_0675.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16383&title=img-0675&cat=500)
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I'm now officially looking for a motor. Anyone have any leads on a good price for a new 200 zuke fly by wire?
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TZC70MHBLK(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_0692.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16400&title=img-0692&cat=500)
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I am really enjoying watching this rebuild. It is one of many on this site that are keeping me excited to work on mine. I am loving the rear storage areas, and just the whole layout really.
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Looking good. What are you going to hang the motor on. Did you line up a bracket.
How are you going to handle your scuppers out the back.
I am finally done glassing my deck in and started the fairing.
Keep it up.
Nothfork
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I ordered an Armstrong 30 X 30. For my scuppers I will drill 1 1/2 inch holes and glass in pvc pipe.
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Wow, I can't believe the end is in sight. The Que Pasa is going to the paint shop on Wednesday. My Bracket and Motor have arrived, the end is near and my knees and back are grateful.
Blind glassed the console. (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_0715.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16422&title=img-0715&cat=500)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_07161.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16423&title=img-07161&cat=500)
Armstrong (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_07172.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16424&title=img-07172&cat=500)
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Congrats - can't wait to see it.
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Wow, paint. Ok what color
Looking really good.
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Same color as the bracket in the photo above
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Here is how she sat this morning before going to the paint shed.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_0731.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16428&title=img-0731&cat=500)
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I am very much looking forward to seeing the paint applied.
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Looking good Que
Love the old school console.
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I longboarded the entire hull 4 times, sure hope it was enough. The primer wont lie, hoping I don't get a call from the painter.
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I snuck into the paint shed, she is primed and getting some pinholes filled.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_07601.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16429&title=img-07601&cat=500)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_07611.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16430&title=img-07611&cat=500)
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Looking real good so far.
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Tomorrow is a big day for me. As hard as it was, I was able to keep out of the paint shop. I spoke to the painter and the boat will be ready for pickup tomorrow. I realize the true test is when the boat is rigged out and is everything you hoped for, but for me this step is just as big. The satisfaction of three years of work, hope it's all worth it. Kinda feel like I'm ten years old on Christmas Eve!
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_0731.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16428&title=img-0731&cat=500)
Before...
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We all cant wait.
Post up them pictures when you calm down
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Well, it wasn't cured yet so I couldn't take her home. I got a good look at her and I'm super happy with the result. I shot a couple of quick pics. Here she is ... more to follow tomorrow.
Here's what I started with...
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/Photo187.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=10895&title=photo187&cat=500)
Here's the end before paint...
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_0731.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16428&title=img-0731&cat=500)
And the Finally...
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_07801.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16524&title=img-07801&cat=500)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_0779.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16525&title=img-0779&cat=500)
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Sweet! That color looks great. What is it?
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Looks very nice except for that smudge on the port side.
Oh wait - that's on my monitor, not the boat!!! :oops: :whoo:
Looks great man. :nSalute: :thumleft:
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That looks killer. Excellent color choice.
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Thanks boys, gonna get to rigging. Still lots of work to do. We'll see how see looks after its rigged. As far as the color, Awlgrip 2000, sky blue and matterhorn white on the inside. Tomorrow I will start the rigging.
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Started rigging the console today, made a tray for the batteries that will have ratchet straps to hold down the batts. Wiring will start tomorrow. This part is so much better than, grinding and fairing.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_0785.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16537&title=img-0785&cat=500)
You can see it a little better here
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_0786.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16538&title=img-0786&cat=500)
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This part is so much better than, grinding and fairing.
Miss the "itch" do ya? :roll:
Lookin"good. :great02:
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I'm trying to locate some Deka Intimidator AGM batteries but it's either mail order (which I don't trust UPS to bounce it nicely all the way here) or drive 80 miles each way to Ft Myers to get one :91:
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Got the recessed dash portion done today, looks great. Half way through the wiring, tomorrow I'll tie it all together.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_07901.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16539&title=img-07901&cat=500)
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Got the wiring complete and the hardware installed.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_07981.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16548&title=img-07981&cat=500)
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Today I finished the dash and got the rod holders and flush mount cleats mounted. Tomorrow the bracket will be attached.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_0976.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16559&title=img-0976&cat=500)
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Nice and clean - good job!
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Today I finished the dash and got the rod holders and flush mount cleats mounted. Tomorrow the bracket will be attached.
Let's see photos of the bracket mounted, :nSalute:
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Got a little more done, Rub rail and bracket.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_08031.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16562&title=img-08031&cat=500)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_0218.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16561&title=img-0218&cat=500)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_08011.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16563&title=img-08011&cat=500)
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That thing is looking killer.
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Thanks man
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:great02:
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Looking Good!
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That thing is looking sweet. Love the barn. Tree stands and deer heads. Tis the season.
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Lots o' Heads.
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Getting her pinned down, just about there. New trailer on the way, stainless insert tomorrow, and rigging the steering.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_0226.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16564&title=img-0226&cat=500)
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:thumleft:
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Just starting to put all the pieces together, got the stainless rub rail done. Got the hatches plugged in. Just have a few more little things and she'll be done
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_08172.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16575&title=img-08172&cat=500)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_08221.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16574&title=img-08221&cat=500)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_08161.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16577&title=img-08161&cat=500)
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Very nice!
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:great02:
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: :thumleft:
looking good! Love the rubrail and nav lights.
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Wow. She sure is looking sweet.
Happy Thanksgiving.
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I had no idea nav lights like that existed. That install is cleeeeeean.
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Got her launched and was able to put three hours on the motor.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_0833.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16580&title=img-0833&cat=500)
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:bravo_2: Looks to be sitting well in the water. How'd it perform?
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She is overbuilt, solid as a rock going throught chop and waves, surprisingly dry. For those that close their transoms and add brackets and a bulkhead back there you should definitely raise your floors 2 1/2 to 3 inches. My floor is just barely enough with 6 people on the boat and I wouldn't want it any higher cause of the reduced gunnel height. Put 3 hours on the motor and was able to run it up to 4000.
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That color looks even pertier on the water. Congratulations on your accomplishment.
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What a killer build. You covered a lot of ground in a hurry between the paint and launching it. Well done.
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Today I fabricated the windshield, I should have it installed by tomorrow and I'll post up some photos. Wednesday will be the maiden striper journey. This site was instrumental in my planning and construction. I will keep posted and help others along their journeys if needed as I have learned a ton and made a few mistakes along the way. Nothing that couldn't be fixed, just stuff that ate up precious time.
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Came out real nice QP.
Thanks for sharing. :great02:
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How did the first bass trip go. Hope the boat was all that you were hoping for.
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Boat ran good however the bass didn't co-operate. Hey the boat is what it is, its not a monster ocean boat. It handles well enough though.
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Got her out and got some blood on the deck, really impressed with this motor. Checked my speed via gps, 51 mph wide open.
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_0834.png) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16586&title=img-0834&cat=500)
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Man that thing looks sweet. The water looks a little sporty glad the bass are hanging around
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There is nothing quite like the instant gratification in findning a build thread that is a few years old.
She came out great. Love the color and stand alone console (no t-top / tower etc)
We could use some more boat porn though, with the new windshield etc
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Boat Porn, she is finished
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_2473.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=17750&title=img-2473&cat=500)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_2478.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=17752&title=img-2478&cat=500)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_2471.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=17749&title=img-2471&cat=500)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_2474.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=17751&title=img-2474&cat=500)
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(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_2470.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=17748&title=img-2470&cat=500)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_2481.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=17762&title=img-2481&cat=500)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_2464.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=17759&title=img-2464&cat=500)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_2463.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=17758&title=img-2463&cat=500)
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(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_2480.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=17757&title=img-2480&cat=500)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_24791.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=17756&title=img-24791&cat=500)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_2477.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=17755&title=img-2477&cat=500)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_24761.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=17754&title=img-24761&cat=500)
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(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_2475.JPG) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=17753&title=img-2475&cat=500)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_07982.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=17747&title=img-07982&cat=500)
(http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/data/500/IMG_09761.jpg) (http://www.classicaquasport.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=17432&title=img-09761&cat=500)
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:great02:
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Your boat looks awsome! Congrats on getting her done.
Earlier in your thread you mentioned that you fabricated your windshield. Do you have any pictures of the process.
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Shugg, no photos, but, it was pretty simple. I first had the windshield fabricator give me a price of 490.00. Just to much coin. So, I went to home depot and got the thickest lexan I could find. I measured the dimensions of the console, added a 1/4 inch on the length on either side. I cut to length with a sabre saw with a plastic cutting blade. Struck a line on the center of where the curve was going be on the angle I wanted. Then I clamped the windshield between two pieces of 3/4 inch plywood sheet and centered the line. I clamped a 2x4 on the very end of the lexan running the length of the piece, simple. Then I heated where the bend was going to be with a heat gun. I took my time with the heat not getting to close as to melt the plastic protective layer., applied heat to both sides. If you do it right the weight of the 2x4 will cause the lexan to fall naturally, that's when you'll know its time to use a little pressure and make your final bend. Pretty simple and saved me four hundred bucks.
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I discovered a couple of pretty cool little ad-ons. Notice the antenna mount, its a quick connect mount, there is a b&c connector inside the mounting bracket and the antenna screws into the mount, pretty clean and removable. Screw less rod holders from GEM and the rub rail Led's from taco.
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Man that turned out really nice! I like the look of all the stainless with the white motor. I am planning a similar look. Good job
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Mike, I took a peek at your rebuild, looks awesome. Just remember be careful on your placement of the scuppers. I didn't think Mine would sit so low in the water with all the light weight coosa. But it did, one recommendation I would give you is the float bracket, don't know what your plans are back there, but it should help a little.
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Thanks! I am raising my floor 2 1/2" and plan to mount the scuppers as high as i can so hopefully it will help. For the bracket, I am still undecided between a porta bracket or an Armstrong. They both have their pros and they are similar in price. Luckily I still have a little time left before I have to make that call.
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Just remember be careful on your placement of the scuppers.
You've mentioned the scuppers and draining a couple times, but I must be blind. I am having trouble locating yours in the photos for comparison. Also, I was going back in the build, it looks like you added 1.5" of height to your deck from factory, with two sheets of coosa on top of the stringers, is that correct?
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That's right, 2 layers of inch and a half reinforcement stringer tops. Then 3/4 inch coosa on top of that so it's actually 2 and a quarter inches. You don't see any cause they're not there, yet. The reason I keep mentioning it is there is no real way of being sure where your deck will be until AFTER everything is added. I haven't added mine yet because, I want to know what my best option is going to be. For example, will I be standing in water if I go with the old style, or will I be needing to seal them off with some kind of trickery. So, they can always be added, but not really taken away unless you feel like patching glass and your beautiful paint or being depressed cause you made a big error. I am very close with mine and want to be sure what I'm putting back there before I put inch and a half holes in my transom. All good though just one major thing to be carful with.
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Just remember be careful on your placement of the scuppers.
You've mentioned the scuppers and draining a couple times, but I must be blind. I am having trouble locating yours in the photos for comparison. Also, I was going back in the build, it looks like you added 1.5" of height to your deck from factory, with two sheets of coosa on top of the stringers, is that correct?
Fun, just offering some thoughts through experience with mine. I'm glad I went with the float bracket. I think had I gone with the porta and no buoyancy back there I would have had a problem. I'm super happy with the way mine rides with the bracket. Heck they are all going to different with weight distribution.
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I caught that. I was just wondering where your scuppers were since I didn't see them in the photos.
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If I had to do mine over, I'd add a drop pocket for the water to collect in with the scupper at the bottom of that. Even with my scuppers right at floor level, I still get standing water where the scuppers aren't. That is called "experience" unfortunately.
Makes you realize why the original designers added a trough along the transom.
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No way of truly telling where your water line will be. No matter what your "experience".
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Yeah, experience comes along after the event. :41:
My scuppers are above the waterline they just aren't the best at draining all the water out.
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:thumleft: :thumleft: :thumleft: :titantic1:
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Amen Rick
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Enjoyed reading through this build. thanks for sharing. Didn't realize the large beneficial floating aspect of the Armstrong bracket.
Ulysses
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Yes the float chamber added needed buoyancy. Also I believe it helps the boat plane off quickly, I'm super happy with it.